(2025) 6-1 David Carrier Hour 1 Podcast

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and you have found the place
where we talk about a state planning, elder law, real
estate and business law, which is really all you pile
it all together. It's really it's all about retirement. If
you're younger and you got kids, well stick around. Why not?

(00:41):
It might be helpful for your mom or dad if
you ever hoped to retire. You know, we can figure
out how to make that happen, and how to you know,
I don't know, enjoy your retirement. Wouldn't that be a
good idea? You know? The big problem we've got was
the state plan Oh and by the way, and we
need to remember this because I always forget. If you'd
like to get your question, comment or concern on the air,

(01:04):
it's easy to do. Just give us a call at
the studio. Six one six seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. And that's sixty one six seven seven four
twenty four twenty four. Now, if you want to call
us at the office. See, here's the problem because a
lot of people are listening to this later on. I
mean we're live right now. But later on you listen

(01:24):
to it and you call that number. That's the studio number,
that's not the office number. Why, because this is live
the rest of your little terrestrial I don't know how
do you pronounce that anyway? This is yeah, thank you,
thank you John, the voice of John. This is real radio.
It's live. So you can call in right now six

(01:46):
one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. But
if you call in later on, you know, you might
call into the Garden Show god knows what, and you know,
or the news during the week or something. You don't
want to do that anyway. The way to get a
hold of us is simply go to the website David
Carrier Law. Squish that all together David Carrier Law dot com,

(02:08):
and you can get hold of us there. That's where
you find out all great information about the workshops, about
how we do things, all kinds of videos, and now
and now we have the AI assistant. That's right, Authentic
intelligence what I like to call it, but you may
know AI is something else anyway, the concept, and we've

(02:28):
had this for about a month. We've been getting some
very very positive feedback on it. You might like it,
you might hate it, but but if you do, you're
out of step with everybody else. We'll give it a try.
You can actually talk to the thing, and it's got
my picture on it, so of course you know it's wonderful.
But it pulls from it pulls from stuff I've written

(02:52):
and things, so you can kind of ask it questions
and it'll be sort of like what I would say. Now.
It will also give you information about our works and
the other things that we're doing. Yes, it will. But
unlike every other checkbot that I've seen on a website,
this one actually gives you good stuff and it responds
to what you actually say. This AI stuff is just

(03:15):
I'm telling you, it's it's freaking me out, man, because
it is so it's so well. Yeah, I started writing Fortran,
which is an old computer program computing language, back in
high school. Okay, so that was longer ago than I
cared to admit, you know, fifty years or so, and

(03:36):
whenever I think of computers and then I was software
development officer for the JAG Corps, when I was at
the Pentagon and stuff like this, and so I tend
to think in terms of flow charts and very specific
rule based computing. I mean, seriously, that's how I think
about it. And this AI stuff is just it's not

(04:00):
that at all. It's very difficult. It's almost like magic
or something like that. It's very difficult to get used
to the idea when your paradigm is I tell this
thing what to do, and then it does what I
tell it to do, and instead it's this much more
free form sort of where did it pick that up?

(04:21):
Kind of stuff. Anyway, if you go to the website,
you can ask questions and what have you, and just
give it a try, give it a spin. Why not?
And at the website you can sign up for the
various things that we are doing now. One of the
things that's really important to us why most of state
planning in my view. In my view, some people think, oh, well,
why do you have that opinion? Well, I have that

(04:42):
opinion because I've been at this for thirty five years.
Now and time and time and time again, you see
estate planning that fails. It just fails on its own terms.
It fails the test of common sense, it fails the
test of preservation of family well and by wealth, I'm
not see. Here's the thing. When people think, oh, well,

(05:06):
I don't have any family wealth, You're so wrong. You
are so wrong. It doesn't take millions of dollars, you know,
sometimes a couple thousand would really help out to constitute
family wealth. And we've really undergone kind of stripping out
of the middle class here. I mean really seriously, I

(05:29):
mean very much disadvantage middle class because the things that
we used to pay for, like higher education, okay, higher education,
go to college. It's ten times what it used to be,
twenty times notre name is twenty times what it used
to be. When I went, there was twenty times as much,

(05:52):
twenty times as much. Who could afford that? Think about
the house that you're living in. Think about the house
that you bought when you first started out. You could
buy a house for forty fifty thousand dollars, you know,
and it wasn't a dump. It was actually pretty nice.
It wasn't a Oh boy, I'm glad the crackheads left
the walls standing kind of thing. It wasn't like that.

(06:14):
It was got of my nice house, kind of a
nice place. Can't do that anymore, can't do that anymore.
And with all that additional expense piled on sons and daughters, right,
with all of that, everything else is more expensive too.
New car, what fifty thousand dollars? Can you imagine that?

(06:36):
Think about when you were a kid and mom and
dad was like, Hey, we're gonna buy a We're gonna
buy a car. It's gonna be fifty thousand dollars. Who
would believe that? You know, the house, the house I
grew up in, they paid twelve thousand dollars for it,
twelve five. I think it was a Sears, one of
those Sears kit houses, you know, but everybody had one.
I mean, that's that's how you did it. You bought

(06:59):
somebody dead. We didn't build it, but you know, they
bought the kit from Seas. It's the same floor plan
I've I've seen the Seers. It's the same house. And
the neighborhood was full of them, so you know that's
but twelve five is what they paid for. They sold
it for sixteen five, and my dad thought, WHOA, what
a great deal. It's a couple hundred thousand dollars. Now

(07:21):
it's not. You know, it's a nice house, I guess,
but it's not that nice anyway. Everything's more expensive now.
And what you can do, what you can do to
support the next generation is how the middle class has
perpetuated itself and how we've had upward mobility and all
the rest of that. Well, when college is, you know,

(07:43):
twenty times as much, and houses are ten times as much,
and everything else costs more, vehicles ten times as much, right,
And the other thing that's ten times as much is
long term care. And I'm sorry for harping on it,
except I'm not sorry at all, because that is the

(08:04):
big obstacle between you, your family and success going forward.
Long term care. It just is. It just is. And
you can pooh poo it, can find and go ahead
and poop poo it and you'll be broke and your
kids won't get a helping hand and all the rest
of this stuff. Fine, And that's not on me. I've

(08:25):
been preaching this, uh, preaching along this line for many
many years, so no big surprises. But when you think
about how much more expensive everything is. Right, and you
think also about the inability of the middle class to
pass on anything meaningful to the next generation, right, and

(08:45):
not even able to maintain in retirement your own lifestyle.
You know, you got married couple. One of them gets
the Alzheimer's, the other one there goes the security. Oh,
what's up with that? How does that? How does that work? Well,
we've got social Security, we've got Medicare. Oh, those will
take care of it. No they won't, No, they won't.

(09:06):
You need long term you have a heart attack, you're fine.
Medicare will pay for a new heart. You have dementia,
a stroke or something like that, you're on your own
for the long term care. Basically, you're on your own
till you're broke and then they'll help you out. Well,
it doesn't have to be that way. It does not
have to be that way. We've got tens of thousands
of families who've demonstrated it does not have to be

(09:28):
that way. And that's what this is all about. So
if you have a question coming or concerned about how
terrible it is that the middle class should maintain what
they've earned through their retirement, well I would love for
you to give me a call and tell me how
awful I am. Go ahead, that would be great if
you're going to tell me how rotten it is, how
irresponsible and uncustomary it is that middle class families should

(09:53):
give the next generation a bit of a boost, a
little leg up. We'll go ahead. I would love to
hear the ration alph of that. But as I have
said many times before, there may come a day when
I apologize for preserving hard earned savings, right, long term
retirement savings for middle class families. There may come a day,

(10:17):
but it ain't going to be today and tomorrow. Do
it looks so good either. That's what this is all about,
in case you in case you were wondering, this is
all about making sure that the people who work and
save and do the good things enjoy the benefits of
their working, saving and doing the good things. All right,
That's that's what it's about. And the idea that people

(10:38):
who didn't who did not for whatever reason, it's not
a moral judgment, but you can observe that there are
people who did and people who did not, okay, for
one reason or another. And we're very sympathetic to the
people for whom it was factors beyond their control. Very sympathetic,
but there you are. E've been listening to the David
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven twenty four, twenty four.
This is the David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show on David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and inviting you to reimagine what
estate planning is all about. Wow, that sounds bad even
to me, but seriously, that's what That's what we're trying
to do here. Let's face it. It's hard to go

(11:35):
see a lawyer. Who wants to go see a lawyer? Nobody.
I don't want to go see lawyers, forget about it.
I just do it because I have to and think
about that. How difficult it is, all right, And then
the one time when you finally get over it, right, Yeah,
you hate doing it, You hate going to see that guy,
but you gotta because everybody knows. You got to have

(11:57):
any state plan, right, you gotta have one. It's like
going to the dentist. You hate doing it, but you
do it. Why do you do it? Because you got
to do it. It's kind of simple as that, and
everybody says you got to do it, and so you
put it off as long as possible. But then something happens.
Somebody dies, or somebody goes to long term care. I

(12:18):
don't know, something happens. You'll see a movie and all
of a sudden, now you say, oh my goodness, I
better get my estate planning done. That's how that works. Okay.
People don't just wake up in the morning like, oh boy,
I think I'm baking in eggs today. You know, it's
not like that. It's like something happened that motivates. I mean,
this is thirty five years of seeing how this works,

(12:40):
actually talking to people about why it is. They came
in and there's always something something they saw, something they heard,
something they read, a life experience, family experience. Sometimes it's
a birthday. That's unusual, but sometimes it is. And that's
what that's what it's what. Usually Usually it's seeing the
concept quenses of not planning. And so here's the betrayal.

(13:05):
That's what I just think of it as sort of
a betrayal because you finally got over the hump, right
you finally went in to see somebody who said that
they knew what the hell they were talking about when
it comes to this estate planning stuff. Right, And then
then they ask you this idiot question, which is, what

(13:27):
do you want to do? Now? I asked the same
idiot question. Okay, I do, but I'm not confined by that,
because I would really like to know. That's how I
find out why people came in. Right, you ask them
the question. But the thing is, we're not asking I'm
not asking you the question to decide what needs to

(13:48):
be done, all right, Having seen, we're on client number
I don't know, one hundred and twenty five thousand, now, okay, Now,
not everybody hired us, obviously, I think it's obvious. But
that's the matter. Reference number, whatever it is. That's how
many families we've touched. One hundred and twenty five thousand,
over thirty five. That's a lot. That's a lot. But

(14:10):
you don't get a client number unless we've talked to you,
unless we've heard your story, unless we've done some gotten
some information or something like that, something of value out
of you, right, some notion of what's actually actually going
on here. And most people want a will, or they say,
oh I heard I got to have a trust, and

(14:32):
it's like, no, that's not it. Or they think it's
about the kids. They think it's about the kids, right, Oh,
I got to leave my stuff to the kids. I
don't want my stuff just lying here, stuff like that, okay,
which is fine, Which is fine. And if you want
to interrupt me, it's very easy to do. Give us
a call. Six one six seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. That's six one six seven seven four twenty

(14:55):
four twenty four. And here's what I call the betrayal.
It's like you finally screwed up the courage, the whatever,
your anxiety finally you know, went over the over the
sea wall built up to such an extent, you finally
did something. You finally went to the office. And then

(15:16):
instead of addressing the real issue, the real what's going
on here, then it's like, oh, well, here's a will,
or here's a trust, or here's something blah blah, and
don't forget to read the letter, which you won't read.
And so the planning is ineffective and it doesn't even
address the real issue. Okay, but but it makes you

(15:40):
feel better, right, Oh, I got a trust. Now, oh
I got you know, I bought myself a pile of documents,
and I even got my name in them. It's like,
do you remember those books they used to sell, you know, Oh,
you know, a custom book for your child and it
would substitute your kid's name in the book. Do you

(16:01):
remember those? I never bought one. But that's what most
of the state plannings like. It's a fairy story, you know,
it's a tale told by an idiot, full of sound
and furious signifying nothing. Anyway, it's a It's cool though,
because it's got your name in it, and it's legal
documents with my name in it, so therefore it must
be good. Let me put it down in the basement

(16:22):
and hope I never see it again, because now your
anxiety level because you did something, because you did something,
you went and saw the lawyer, which I hated to do,
but you went and did it, and you paid a
bunch of money. Hey, you know, I've never spent that
much money on anything. Now I'm spending on this.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Now.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
It must be good, right, That's what's going on with
the state planning, and it's an abomination in my view,
in my humble opinion, in my uncustomary opinion, it's an
abomination because people don't get what they actually need. You
get documents that are kind of rehashes from five to
ten fifteen years ago. I've seen it. Don't tell me

(17:00):
it doesn't happen. I see what people have done already,
you know, part of the review, and it's like, you know,
you know, how weird it is to go through some
documents that we've just done within the last year or
two and there are references to laws that went out,
you know, ten fifteen years ago, Like these documents have

(17:22):
not been refreshed in the last whatever. It's terrible, it's terrible.
But my point is when you finally make the decision
to do something right, we know that it's going to
be and you do something, you actually do something, it's
going to be years before you revisit that, before something

(17:43):
else happens that inspires you to go ahead. And what
I think is awful is that, rather than addressing your
real needs right, what you hear and the only reason
I think you're hearing this is because this is what
people tell me they were told all right. I haven't
the secret mystery shopped to anybody. I just hear what

(18:05):
clients tell me. And what they say is they were asked, well,
what do you want? I want to? Will I want to?
And then they would do that instead of there being
any real education, instead of being any counseling, instead of
there being any Hey, you know, it's really worse than
your thought, because it is really worse than your thought. Right,
Instead of any of that, it's like, oh, here, here,

(18:26):
have a book of documents to get your name in
it and whatever. Don't forget to read the letter, which
you won't read, you know, because if you don't read
the letter and do what I told you to do
in the letter, then this thing won't work anyway, right,
this trust won't work. And they say stuff like that.
They do say stuff like that, and the letters in
the file. I've seen it. You know that's in the binder.

(18:48):
But you're not going to do it, which everybody knows
you're not going to do it. You're not going to
follow through on your own. That's what we're here for.
That's what we're supposed to do. In my opinion, that's
customary and all the rest of it. When we get back.
There are four things that distinguish what I view as
a responsible, appropriate response, a right Four things that should

(19:11):
be done when people say, hey, I need a state plan.
There are four factors which I just don't see being done.
And you know, and listen, I went through the same
training everybody else did. Okay, ah yeah, this is the
way it's done, is the way you're told to do it.
It's the customary way, it's the way everybody does it.
All I'm saying is it's woefully inadequate. It's terrible. It's legit.

(19:37):
I mean, it's what everybody else is doing. I get it.
I get it. It's fine, you know, but it's not
fine because you're not addressing the real issue, which I'm
gonna deal with in the next segment. Because the music's
about to start. When the music starts, I ain't got
to shut up. But in the meantime, you can go
to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com, ask any questions
you choose of the AI assistant, or come to one

(20:00):
of our three Secrets workshops. We do those every week.
The Good Lord brings the twice on Sundays. We'll see
you there. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
David's got the how too you're looking for. Just call
seven seven four twenty four twenty four. This is the
David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Now's the time. Give us a call.
Six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
That's six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
As I say, that is not my office address. So
if you call tomorrow morning and you say, oh, I
like what you said on the show, or I really

(20:42):
hate what you said on the show, we get both.
Don't call six one six seven seven four twenty four
to twenty four. It'll just go to the studio and
they'll be like, yeah, oh he was at it again.
Huh uh. Go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com
because on the website Davidcarrier Law dot com is a

(21:03):
wonderfully helpful device there that will give you all kinds
of good information and the phone number and you can
actually call and talk to us. Now. I know you
think that during the breaks I just take a nap
or something, and well that's usually true, but occasionally I
go looking around the interwebs and one of the things
I discovered. I'd always going to talk about something else,

(21:24):
but this is just see in the last what do
you want to say ten years? I would say five years,
maybe ten years. Whatever. We don't trust authorities anymore. Have
you noticed that? All right? It's very difficult to believe
what they're telling you. And it's not See you read

(21:49):
these things the death of Authority or you know, murder
of Experts or something like that, and it's like, oh,
we're not listening to experts anymore because we're cynical or
because whatever reason. Well here's the thing. I believe that
experts Harvard. Look at Harvard for example, Oh my god,

(22:11):
I mean, do some reading on it. Don't listen to
me about it. Just do some reading. You find out
what a what a pit of despair Harvard has become.
I saw somebody wrote that, you know, if it doesn't
involve equations, right, so if it's not the hard physical sciences,
forget about it in Harvard. And you know, and you

(22:33):
used to think, oh, if Harvard's that's oh what must
be must be true. Well anyway, here's here's the thing.
Here's the thing that got me on a tangent. All right,
here's the headline. This city was just ranked the happiest
the happiest in the United States. The recently released twenty
twenty five Happy City Index. Get this Happy City Index

(22:57):
right ranks cities based on the happiness of their citizens.
The highest rated US city also happens to be one
of the largest liveliest cities in the world. What do
you think is the happiest city? Now? If you read that, right,
you click on clickbait, right you go, you go, Oh,
is it Des Moines? Is it Indianapolis? You know Grand Rapids,

(23:21):
You know, I could you could make a case for
any of those places. Okay, the experts want you to
believe that New York City is the happiest in the
in the in the world, in the country or whatever.
New York City. Now, maybe back when Giuliani was mayor
and you could actually walk the streets without getting mugged,

(23:43):
when the crime rate wasn't so high, when they didn't
turn criminals back, all the things, all the dysfunctions that
New York City is going through right now. Now, if
it's the happiest, this is the thing that kills me.
If it's the happiest city, now, what was it like
before freaking Nirvana. Right, they don't go to the sea,
the Swami and the Himalayas, you know, go to New

(24:05):
York because you know, they reach to cosmic consciousness or whatever.
The idea that right now, New York City is the
happy They tell you stuff that is so absolutely unbelievable, right,
and they expect you to buy it. They expect you
to accept it. How can that possibly be? Right? And

(24:28):
it's like, oh, you know they've got you know, it's
the Institute for Quality of Life that came out with
that stuff. I'm not kidding. I mean you could google
it see the happiest city in the country, right, and
it says some may find it a bit surprising that
New York City. Yeah, no kidding surprising because it's excuse me,

(24:52):
I'm I'm ver clumped. It's absolutely asinine. It's ridiculous. Do
you know anybody have you ever been to New York City? Okay?
And I don't mean, you know, fly in for a
Broadway show, have dinner, and get the hell out, which
I have not done instantly, but I know people who haven't.

(25:14):
They you know, they kind of like that, you know,
spend a week there are kid which I have done,
you know, but it's like, oh, my goodness, New York City.
But the larger point is not to pick on New York.
It's got enough people picking on it already. My point
is that when people set themselves up as experts, which

(25:36):
I do, I'm doing that. Yeah, I'm telling you, oh,
I know all this stuff? Well why do I Why
do I think I know all this stuff? Why do
I think? Right? Well, there are reasons for it. There
are reasons, you know. I'm not going to tell you
obvious bs like New York is the happiest city, but
I will tell you that middle class people are the

(25:57):
ones to pay most of the taxes because you've got
three kind of groups of people in the world. You
got the super on the one one extreme. You got
people on the other extreme, the people on the topic streme.
They're too smart to pay the taxes. They buy all
the politicians, They fix the tax code for their benefit.
And I can give you chapter and verse on that
one if you'd like. It's not hard to find evidence

(26:21):
of that, Okay, but that's the way that works. And
then you've got people on the other side of the
spectrum who are taking out more than they're putting in
or will ever put in. Okay, all right, So if
these are too smart and those are taking you know,
and I'm not I'm not making a moral judgment about that.
It just happens. Some people are unlucky, you know. Maybe

(26:43):
that's the way that goes. Okay, fine, Fine, What I'm
saying is who's paying for it all? Who's buying the airplanes,
who's buying the you know, I like aircraft carriers for
obvious reasons. But who's buying who's buying those things or
who's paying for those things? Well, well, it ain't them
or their grandkids. It ain't those other people on the

(27:03):
other end of the spectrum, Okay, it's you. It's middle
class people are and there's all kinds of goodies, good ease,
you know. Yeah, that's not really appropriate to say that
all kinds of benefits. Let's call that that are available. Okay.
And there are some benefits like social Security, like medicare,

(27:25):
right that actually benefit the middle class. Okay, that actually
benefit well, okay, I paid in, I get back, all right.
They also benefit people who didn't pay in so much
as you did. That's just the way it is. Okay,
But my observation years ago, thirty years ago, was that

(27:48):
the people who pay pay in, who do most of
the paying, are being driven to not bankruptcy because you
don't declare bankruptcy most of the time, but are but
have their whole life savings consumed by something long term
care that is free to other people. And you say, oh, well,

(28:10):
you've got a house, you should give up your house. Well,
why don't they say that about social security? Why do't
you say that about medicare? Right? Oh, you got a
four or one K? You should? You should, like it's
righteous that you should go broke. It was just stupidest
thing that New York City is the happiest city in
the United States. It's like, utterly insane, but we kind
of somebody wants you to accept this these what is

(28:33):
the city for Institute for Quality of Life? Quality of life?
And are you kidding me? Do you know anyone from
New York? Go ahead, wander around Times Square and now
tell me it's the happiest city. Right, take a stroll
through Central Park. Right, you only got mugged once. Oh
that's good. Oh you didn't get mugged at all. No,
but you got panhandled fifteen times. Why don't give it

(28:57):
a try? Life my ass? Anyway, The point is that
people who work and save and do the good things
and store up against the future. Right. Look, I understand
in the Bible the guy with the packed granaries and
stuff like that, he had died that night. You know, Yeah,
that stuff happens. Okay, Well that was divine whatever. Okay,

(29:20):
divine will or the way of the universe or something
like that. Why shouldn't your fellow human beings do that
to you. Why shouldn't the system be set up in
such a way that the people who work and save
and pay and do all the good things right, don't
have to go broke, don't have to can can have
a reasonable likelihood of passing on some of that to

(29:42):
the next generation. I'm not talking about the multimillionaires. I'm
talking about regular folks. You know. And listen, there are
people who work the line who've got over a million bucks.
They just they actually contributed to the four and one
k when the HR person said, contribute to your four
O one K. That's how it works in America. Why
shouldn't you be able to hang on to what you got?

(30:03):
I don't get it. It's just crazy. The idea that
you shouldn't is as crazy as saying that New York
City is the happiest city in the United States. Obvious nonsense.
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now, this
is the David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Now is the time to give
us a call. Six one six seven seven four twenty four,
twenty four. We've got Kevin on the line. Hello Kevin,
Welcome to the David Carrier Show.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Hello David, good morning, Good morning.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
How can I help.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
There's a general sum pretty widely accepted about keeping financial
records for seven years and then toss them out kind
of thing. But I was wondering, if you have a
and uh, you know, a decade or more goes by
and you get audited as you make actually free with Charles,

(31:10):
is the I R S going to expect you to
have records of where that money came from, going all
the way back in the words as it was put
into the roth ira A I paid taxes on it,
so I can show I pay taxes that year, but
I can't necessarily show the every single record of money

(31:32):
from different accounts that got funneled into you know, from
the traditional.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
So what would they do if they said, okay, here's
something from twelve years ago that was a deposit which
account did not even come from, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Well, so long as you're as so long as you're
filing your tax returns, you just two years from the
data tax unless there's a substantial understatement of income or fraud. Right,
So then they substantial understatement, then they go back five
right and if you haven't filed, well the statute never runs.
If you have filed, then you should be you should

(32:14):
be good to go. So you know, I you you
got me had a little bit of a loss here
because I'm trying to think of when I've ever heard
that ever challenge, and I never have. I think it's
because the records that are maintained by the by the
IRA custodians, you know what I mean, Because you can't

(32:35):
just do this on your own. It's not like your
own personal records are going to establish the the i
RA A or the records of the you know you're
going to go to the you're going to go to
the provider, You're going to go to your IRA custodian
to do that. So and they would have the records,
so whatever you should.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, there's a little part of this I want to
add to to this closely related. But they have records,
but they don't pay attention to money going into an IRA,
be it roth or otherwise. So technically you have to
have I have to qualify for a conventional IRA first

(33:17):
and then you do the wroth rollover if you're doing.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
It that way, are we talking the back door? When
you said rollover, you mean the back door, not.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
The taxable No, just a just a traditional IRA. Okay.
So I've got an employer I put money into traditional IRA,
let's say in nineteen seventy five, okay, And so I
do I have to go back and have records all
the way to nineteen seventy five showing that all of
that money was permitted to going to a IRA. First,

(33:51):
and then the second piece is when it got and
calling it rolled over. But lets they converted to a
wroth ira the same dog. Then that's the second event.
So the first event would be like way back, much
more than seven years back.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah. Well, I mean there's a couple of different ways
to do the there's a conversion right where you take
the money out, you put it right in, you pay
the tax, and you put it back in the wroth right.
But then there's also and for most people, what they're
doing a lot of folks are doing these days is
they're putting tax paid dollars into the traditional right and

(34:31):
then they're doing the back door conversion into a wroth
because they contributed tax paid dollars to the to the
traditional IRA. And you know, come to think of it,
I would I would think, yeah, you would have to
You'd have to be able to prove that you paid
the taxes on those dollars. You'd have to do that.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah, and there I just are they going to say,
you put you were in eligible for an IRA and
then seventy five um hmm, you put money into an
I r A anyway even though you weren't eligible.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Oh, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
The financial institution will let you do that. They don't.
They don't audit to right, they don't pay attention to
the rules of that nature.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Well, that's a good question, isn't it. I don't think.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
I don't think with the law school for it, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, yeah, because general generally speaking, when you're when you're
when you're filing your tax return, you're showing that you
put the money in the i RA. So I guess
I go back to the return because you're you're given
there's an information return that's generated when you when you
do that, so there should be some evidence of that.

(35:53):
And then if the question is should you hold on
to your records, like like we've got records now out,
I'll tell you it's probably ten or fifteen years ago,
at least ten years ago that we decided to digitize everything.
You know, we decided to scan everything in And we
originally thought hey, because we were we had storage, we

(36:17):
had we had two offices. All it was was just
file cabinets, and we were thinking, well, we'll get some
college kids in here and be done by you know,
it will be a summertime project. Well it took two
and a half years before we digitized everything. And nowadays, yeah, nowadays,
you come in and we you give us any any

(36:37):
kind of document, including copies of the document, and we just
scan it in hand, you back the original. We don't
keep originals of hardly anything. I mean it's a couple
of things, but hardly anything. So I guess when it
comes to when it comes to h and now, of
course we were on our like our third or fourth

(36:57):
record retrieval system, you know, because they keep up rating
and oh it's better now, and so it can be.
It's in there, you can get it, but it's not
fingertips like you'd like it to be, just the more
recent stuff, right, But it would seem like back in
the day, the only way you could keep records, and

(37:18):
we have clients who've done this is with boxes and
boxes and boxes of paper records, right, you know, so
you get the check registers from nineteen sixty eight and whatnot, Well,
you don't need that. And with current scanning and whatnot,
keeping more records just in self defense is probably is

(37:41):
probably a good idea. So I'm not saying it. I
don't think you need I don't think you need to
keep the paper documents. I wouldn't keep the paper documents
if you can scan them, you know, go ahead. Yeah,
but it's an interesting it is an interesting question.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
I mean, yeah, technically they might have you, but it's
a practical matter. It's sounding more and more like if
I have at least the tax return that shows I
paid taxty much.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, you're not gonna right, And you know, and when
you talk about practical matter, what we're seeing is a
real drop off in enforcement activity on the part of
the I r S. And part of that. Part of
that is the tax rules have been loosened up and
they collect so much more automated information. Okay, that that

(38:33):
you don't really have to prove a lot of the stuff.
They know you better than you know yourself. They have
more proof about your activities than you do. So it's
not it's not. Well, we can talk about that more.
But I'm getting towards the end here. But it's like
the whole taxes on tips, right, Why are we giving
up taxes on tips so that the I r S

(38:54):
doesn't beat up waiters and waitresses. That's why, because those
were pretty good targets. Because those pople didn't keep records,
they could file their assessments and internally they were rewarded
for the assessment, not for the collection, so you might
not be able to collect. But but anyway, I think
it's uh yeah, Well, thank you, Kevin. You raised a

(39:15):
very very interesting sentis of issues that really hadn't hadn't addressed,
But thank you. Thanks for calling. You've been listening, Thank you,
you've been listening to The David Carrier Show on David Carrier.
Your family's personal attorney.