(2025) 7-20 David Carrier Show Podcast

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to the Data Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and I'm getting off on feedback here.
I'm not for long well, your family's personal attorney. Now
that we have seven seven four twenty four twenty four,

(00:45):
that's sixty one six seven seven four twenty four to
twenty four, will get your question, comment or concern on
the air. All you have to do is, like I say,
give us a call sixty one six seven seven four
twenty four twenty four. Or if you have a question,
comment or concern about wills, trusts or probate. If you're
wondering how do I beat the high cost of long

(01:06):
term care and what's all that about? Anyway, if you
have a real estate question or business law, you know,
if you're running a business, wish you were running a business,
or just wish you could get out of that damn business. Time,
it's a call six one, six, seven, seven four, twenty four,
twenty four. I'm spending the weekend here in what most

(01:29):
people would reward is the prying out the tenth circle
of Hell, but close to it anyway. I'm at a
lawyer convention to believe that. As I've mentioned before on
the show, the way that we do things, this whole
estate planning thing, the way that we say, look, it's
not about your kids, it's not about death, it's not

(01:51):
about probate, saving facts, not about any of that stuff.
The whole endeavor here is really about making sure that
you don't die broke. The way you're going to die
broke is not because he bought too many quills, we
went fishing too often, or were on the extra ride
at the county fair. That ain't going to do it.
The way most people die broke is long term care.

(02:15):
Just the fact. And you say, well, why is why
is long term care so expensive? Oh? Those those rich
nursing home people, Oh my goodness, they're worse than Bill Gates.
You know, No, that's that's not really yet the problem
is that there was this thing called World War Two,

(02:36):
and when it was over, people were so happy they were.
They were really pretty happy when World War Two was over.
So they got together and decided to have families, lots
of families, lots of kids in the families that would
be us, the Baby Boom generation, the richest generation, the
kindest generation, the most generous generation, the most success full

(03:00):
generation in the history of the planet. Okay, and you know,
I I we we get it on. You know, people
like Okay Boomer you know whatever. It's like. Look, it's
like Ronald Reagan said, you know, when young people were
complaining to him, you know, back when he was governor
of California, I just love the story. I can't wait,
you know, all week id and thinking, oh I can't

(03:21):
wait for something. I can tell the story. So the
student protesters came in to his office he was governor
of California, and they're complaining, you know, about the war
and this and that, and you can't understand anything. You
don't understand anything about us, young folks, because you were
born before the high speed rail and before there was

(03:43):
television and transistor radios and fax machines. You know, you
don't know anything about you know, nuclear war and all
the rest of this stuff. And Reagan's you know, we
grew up with it, and so that's why, you know,
you don't understand where hip That was kind of the idea.
And Reagan's response was, you're right, you know, we did

(04:05):
not grow up with these things, these wonderful things, these
modern things, these very technological that we didn't grow up
with these things. That's true. We invented them. See so
baby boomers invented the world that we're living in right now.
The people who did the microchip, the people who popularize

(04:25):
computers and whatnot, go so many years ago. Sure there's developments,
but if you look at the numbers, okay, there's no
question that we've done the most. And to the extent
our kids are spoiled brats. That's our own fault because
you know, spare the rod and spoil the child. Well,

(04:46):
doctor Spock had a different idea that we adopted. We
believed that, you know, we believe more in you know,
doctor Spot than you know than we did in the
in the Hickory sick. So we got the kids that
we got because we did the things that we did. Nevertheless,
our accomplishments are sneered at and diminished. But that seems

(05:11):
foolish to me. Seems wrong to me anyway. There are
a lot of us, a lot of US boomers. I
was born in fifty seven. I count myself as one.
And the problem is that seventy years on, right, sixty
seventy years on from the baby boom, we need care.
That's just the fact of it. Seventy percent of folks

(05:33):
will need the Corter nationalists due to health. Now they've
carrier making it up. Seventy percent of folks will need
on average three years of care. Okay, and the older
you get, the higher that percentage grows, gets close to
ninety percent when you get towards the end. The point
is that the demand for care is way way up,

(05:55):
way up. The supply of care givers that we be
your children is way down. See, we didn't have as
many kids as our parents. Our kids aren't having as
many kids as we did. That's just reality, right, And
we're gonna that's gonna be playing out over the next
hundred years, and that's gonna be an interesting thing to see.

(06:15):
But you and I won't be around for it. What
we're experiencing right now, with eighteen thousand dollars a month
nursing home costs, right, one hundred dollars a month. And
this was just last time I checked, it was one
hundred bucks a month, one hundred bucks an hour for
a registered nurse. What does it cost nowadays? I haven't
I haven't checked in. I should look that up. I
haven't checked in a while. But you know, one hundred

(06:36):
dollars an hour. Jeez, that's almost like a lawyer. Terrible,
and you need them twenty four hours to day. Hey,
with lawyers, you just paid for the amount of time
that we're actually focused on the issue, of course billing
practices that I've seen anyway, The point is that the
care is so expensive, how are you going to deal

(06:58):
with it? Well? It it's the same problem we had
with income, right, It's the same problem with people living
longer not saving as much. Although I mean this was
a problem back in the thirties. Fdr of Sainted Memory,
Frankly Donald Roosevelt establish Social Security, and you have paid

(07:19):
into Social Security with every single paycheck you've ever received
in your entire life. This is what makes it okay,
my opinion, makes it perfectly okay for you to receive
your Social Security Yeah, paid for it. Why shouldn't you
get it? Some people want to say no, but I

(07:39):
don't get I don't really understand that part. The other
thing that you paid for that you should get is Medicare.
It's an insurance program supposedly, but again it's supported by taxes,
which are paid by tax payers. A street kinds of
people in America. They're the people at the upper end.
They're too smart to pay taxes. They had all kinds

(07:59):
of time is that they can do to minimize or
avoid having to pay their taxes legit under the tax code.
But you know what do they say about the person
who pays the piper calls the tune? Well, well, it's
pretty hard to look at the tax code and not
think who is paying the piper look at the tune

(08:23):
that's being played. There's the other end of the spectrum
of Americans, or some more than half, more than half
are receiving more than they ever paid in receiving more
from the government than they ever paid. Okay, so if
the people at the two extremes, two ends of the
spectrum aren't the ones paying the bills, let me ask you, now,

(08:44):
this is a real head scratcher here is they're not
paying up there, and they're not paying down there. Okay,
so those two people aren't paying. Those two groups of
people aren't paying. I wonder who's paying? Hmm, could it
be the magical magical money tree in the backyard. We
have a national forest full of money trees. I don't

(09:07):
think so. Are we borrowing it all from our grandkids? Well,
that's not true. Eating who's the one who's paying? The
answer is you are. Look in the mirror if you
want to know who's paying. It's the middle class. We
do most of the living, most of the die, and
most of everything. And we're also doing most of the
taxpay And we're also the ones who did most of

(09:28):
the savings, most of the building. And that's what's going
away with long term care, except that, like Social Security,
like Medicare, you paid for a government program, you paid
for it that provides for long term care. Why aren't
you taking advantage of it? Why aren't you getting back
what you paid in? Right? It seems to me to
be just the silly. A question is, why don't you

(09:50):
just give back your Social Security? Right? How dare you
take Medicare? How dare you? How dare you ridiculous? We mean,
how I paid for the freaking thing? Again Ronald Reagan.
Remember that debate in New Hampshire. I paid for this microphone.
Don't you never shut it off? Right? You've paid for it. Ah,
that seems like a pretty basic reason to be entitled

(10:14):
to receive what you paid for. Is that a bad thing?
Are you greedy and selfish for? I don't know, taking
the groceries out to the car? You made going to
the grocery store. You bought stuff and you're supposed to
leave it there. Oh no, you greedy person? How dare you? Blah?
But I put it in the bag and I paid

(10:35):
for it. Yeah, but it ain't for you give it
to these other people? What well? And just keep on paying. Oh,
by the way, we'll see you next week. Hold up
a few more shopping carts. Oh, but you don't get
to take them home. There are people who think that
makes sense. I don't really understand it. If you have
a question, comment or concerning give us a call six
one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. That's

(10:57):
six one, six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
We'll get your question, comment or concern on the air.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
This hour of The David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show on David Carrier.
Your family's personal attorney. So how do we beat the
high card? How do you make sure that you get
what you've paid for? It seems obvious to me that
that's a good thing. If it's not obvious to you,
you can give me a call six one six seven
seven four twenty four twenty four. That's six one six

(11:38):
seven seven four twenty four twenty four. Or go to
the website Davidcarrier Law dot com. Now on the website,
I told you about this before. On the website, we've
got this thing that will pop up if you don't
have pop up blockers blocked. If your pop up blockers
are blocked, how many pops could the pop up block
or block of a block? Anyway, the point is go

(11:59):
to the website. There's a AI artificial intelligence thing there
and now it talks to you. You know, you don't
even have to read it. How cool is that? So,
of course you do have to have good enough eyesight
to click it on, and you gotta figure out when
get your get your grand kids to figure it out,
to turn it on. But then you can just ask

(12:21):
you questions. And it's not legal advice. Okay, let's not
kid ourselves. Not legal advice. But it does, it does interact,
and it does it's a lot more valuable than some
canned response, right that. Believe me. I've written a lot
of canned responses on the website over the years, and

(12:41):
this thing is it's really pretty useful. I have to
say that it is. It is pretty useful. But anyway,
so that's new, fairly new. That's a good thing. What
else are we doing to help out? Oh, we're we
started having uh some of our workshops now at Russ's.
And are those nice folks over there. Have you been

(13:02):
to Russ's recently? You should go. You know, it's it's
like you remember it, you know what I mean, it's
the the it's a it's a regular stuff, you know
what I mean, very nice, very nice. The people were
very nice, the you know, good response and all the
rest of that, all the rest of that. So that's
a that's a new thing. That's a new feature. We're

(13:25):
doing a number of we're still doing new workshops at
up in Norton, shores over in Holland, down in Portages,
we're still doing those, the regular workshops at the at
our offices of course in Gearan Rapids we're still doing those.
But but a new feature. We decided to try it out.
Somebody was buddy was saying, oh, you really ought to,

(13:47):
you really are to try this, and and sure enough
it worked. It worked very well. So, uh, if you
get an advertisement or you see something clicked on something,
whatever we are doing knows it RUSS, you could just
call the office, go to the website, you know, sign
up from one of the Russ's workshops. So we are,
we are doing those, and as I say, very very

(14:09):
nice folks over there couldn't be couldn't be happier with
our experience. You know, they have a little space for
you and everything. That's really really, really very nice. I
have to say. Anyway, here I am in the ninth
circle of Hell. I'm at a lawyer conference. And you
know that our approach to these things, faithful listeners know

(14:30):
there are four things that we do that are in
my experience, very different than the typical estate planning firm. Okay,
Number one, we don't just give you a bunch of
documents and say here, read the documents and figure it
out yourself, or oh, we'll give you some advice. Now
we've followed through, we actually do what needs to be

(14:51):
done in order to make sure that your documents are
going to work. I mean, most trusts, A vast majority
of trusts fail, and the reason they fail has nothing
to do with the law. It has everything to do
with the way that these documents are put together in
the process. It's not a legal technical problem, exactly. It's

(15:13):
a follow through problem. And everybody knows that people buy
the book of documents, they think they're done, they put
it on the shelf at home, they wait till the
mildews away or something like that. Right, but they've got
to trust, and they've got powers of ratney. Oh we've
got If I swear to goodness, I would quit tomorrow
if I had a nickel for every time somebody said, oh,

(15:35):
we got a willing to trust the we're all set,
or I got a will on all set. You know,
and you know it isn't true because you know that
people aren't actually following through with this stuff. There it is,
So that's number one follow through to make sure that
the damn thing works. When you think you're done, you
actually are done, but nothing stays done. Have you ever

(15:58):
noticed this? Have you ever vacuumed the floor? Right? Remember
the first time you got a vacum Remember back in
the day, you went to Sears Roebuck and you bought
the kenmore. Right, you vacuum the house, and it's like, oh, boy,
vacuum the house?

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Right?

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Did you throw the vacuum cleaner away? Right? When you
when you buy the dishwasher, you know, you get the
dish washing detergent. You know, Oh, we got to think
of dirty dishes and when you get the when when
you clean up all the dishes, do you throw away
the soap? Oh, I'm done. Now shut off the water.

(16:31):
I cleaned it all up. I'm done. And yet that's
what people want you to think about your stateplan. It's
totally false. I mean, it couldn't be more false. Right,
you get one tank of gas and you're done. You
don't need it. I actually, when I was in the service,
when I was in the army, I rebuilt ah, I
rebuilt an engine in a Pinto and it was given

(16:51):
to me. The vehicle was given to me by a
friend who didn't understand that you needed to change oil right.
Another captain, another officer, she and her husband were not
mechanically inclined, and she's like, yeah, my mom gave my
mama gave it to me and it didn't work. And
uh and I looked at they've blown the heads, you know,

(17:17):
because the because the it gunked up. I mean, eventually
you got you gotta maintain these things. It may It
made me think of so many of the estate plans
that you see, right. I mean it's like, yeah, you know,
it may have been okay, and I get that you're
happy having it right while it worked, but the fact
is it doesn't work anymore. And the reason doesn't work

(17:37):
anymore because you haven't maintained it. So that's the second
thing that we do, is we follow up, follow through
to make sure it's done right the first time. Follow
up to make sure that it's maintained. You can't just
leave it right. It's like anything else in your life,
anything else at all, but in your life, is there
when you do it one time, now you're done. Life

(17:59):
doesn't work that way. And yet we want you to
believe that that's how your state planning works. It couldn't
be more false. The second the third thing that we do,
that's the second thing. The third thing that we do
is we're focusing the second thing, excuse me, is we're
focused on you. We make sure that your state plan
protects you. Say, yeah, but I'm not dead, and this
is to get the stuff to the kids. That is

(18:20):
not what your state plan is about in my opinion. Okay,
that's part of it. Okay, that's the end game. But
before we get there, we got to make sure that
the stuff that you put in your trust, the stuff
that you've built up over your lifetime, serves you. Why
wouldn't it. Isn't that what this is all about. Yeah,

(18:41):
it is. And the biggest threat to you, as I say,
is not that you buy too many geraniums, right, not
that you do too much gardening, go on too many cruises,
or have too much furniture. That's not the problem. You
will never go broke voluntary. Middle class people don't go
broke voluntarily. They go broke because long term care comes along.

(19:01):
You can't deny it. And when you can't deny it anymore,
that's when people go broke. That's what we're focused on.
First and foremost, live your life, however you wish, it's
up to you entirely make all your own choices, but
for God's sakes, you know, when you can't make choices anymore,
why would you throw yourself on the mercy of the court.
Why would you just say, oh, I don't care, I
don't get it. Why would you subject your family to that? Don't?

(19:26):
Just go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com sign
up for a free one of our free workshops three
Secrets workshops, and we'll cover the other two when we
get back. You're listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm
David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
David's got the how too you're looking for. Just call
seven seven four twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your
family's personal attorney. Now's the time to give us a call.
Six one seven to twenty four twenty four. That's six one,
six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. As I mentioned,
I'm down in the down, in the depth here at
a lawyer conference, and so I only have one hour today.

(20:15):
The other the rest of it will be a rerun.
Sorry about that, but well, what do you want. We're
live and local most of the time. Anyway. What I'm
doing here is we've kicked off. Here's the thing, Like
I was saying, there's four things we do different. Number
one follow through, follow up. Number two is focus on you.

(20:38):
Number three we actually focus on your kids. We actually
make sure that the inheritance goes where you wanted to go.
And number four we focus on individual retirement accounts. Four
one K is four or three b's the middle class
tax break, the middle class benefit that no one else
takes advantage of because it's not really meant for anybody else.
It's under siege. Like everything else in middle class, everything

(21:00):
else that benefits the middle class is under siege. You know,
it's under assault. What can you say? But we're fighting.
Don't worry where we're doing. We're doing the best. We're
doing the best that we can. But one of the
reactions I get frequently from other attorneys, from folks, and
I was like, well, if you guys are so smart, right,
if this approach is such a great idea, how come

(21:21):
no one else is doing it? Well, that's a fair
that's a fair question. And the usual answers which happen
to be accurate, which is it's difficult, it takes time, spend,
blah blah blah, all the all the rest. And you know,
most people, attorneys included, are people. You know, people are
looking for the easy, quick, let's get it done, let's

(21:42):
get it over with solution. That's that's just true. And
this is a complex area. I mean, there's no two
ways about it. The fact is, though, that when you
do it correctly, it's not that hard. I mean, there
is there is a way methodology over thirty five years
of doing this, that we've finally come to that does work.

(22:02):
And now we've got fourteen other law firms from San
Diego to New York City, from Michigan all the way
down to the Gulf of America and who are implementing
this system. Now that's what I'm doing here, training with
the attorneys who are who have seen that this is
a superior way, a better way to make sure that

(22:24):
people don't go broke. It still boggles my mind that
this is acceptable. It's okay for you to just ignore
the biggest threat to your well being, to your family's
well being. It's okay. Nobody complains about it, no attorney,
it seems to it seems to mind, I mind, you know,

(22:45):
voice crying in the wilderness, Well not quite the wilderness anymore.
Now that we've got more and more law firms that
are joining this idea that it really should be something else.
So we're partnering with these law firms, including a couple
of buddies of mine I've known for over ten years,
fifteen years, lawyers in different states, Florida and Pennsylvania. We're

(23:08):
partnering together with other law firms to bring this kind
of planning nationwide. And I just think it's really important
to do it, to get it done correctly. That seems
that seems obvious to me. But let's get to some questions,
shall we. If you have a question six six seven,
seven four twenty four twenty four question can I stay?

(23:29):
And this is this question, right, this is the sort
of thing that someone should have answered a long time ago.
But anyway, can I stay in my mother's home after
she ended up in a nursing home. I was in
disability well before I became her sole caretaker. Right my
father passed away a few months ago. Was an assistant
living and Medicaid. Okay, when he went to assistant living

(23:53):
with Medicaid quick claim indeed was filed house sodium mother's name.
I am on disability, now disability. What I think that
means is what I'm counting on that to mean is
social Security disability SSDI, Social Security disability income. That's what
I'm thinking. That's what I'm thinking this is about. And

(24:14):
then moved into mom's house, became sole caregiver. House is
in her name, and Mom is now not in assisted
living apparently, but in a full fledged skilled nursing facility.
That's the eighteen thousand, one, twelve thirteen all the way
up to eighteen twenty thousand dollars a month eighteen is
what I'm familiar with. I know it's more in some places,

(24:36):
but there you are. That's how much it costs a month.
But Medicaid will pay for it. How does Medicaid payment
when they pay a Medicaid reimbursement rate, which reimburses reimburses
the facility for all the costs plus profit. So don't
cry for a nursing home that's taking Medicaid clients. They're
making money on every single Medicaid client. That's it's the

(25:01):
law in Michigan. Now someplace is different. Illinois is different. Well,
we're not in Illinois, are we. Let's not go anyway.
So don't worry about being on Medica. You paid for
it and the facility is getting paid in full. But
the question now is the house is in mom's name
and I have a disabled child staying at the house.

(25:22):
It used to be, it used to be that if
anyone but the owner, if any if Mom had moved
out and daughter moved in, you would lose the principal
residence exemption. You would lose the principal residence exemption. Now
it's okay for daughter to move in. It always has
been right to move in and care for the house, right,
somebody's got to be there. The insurance alone would kill

(25:45):
you if you have to pay for a vacant house insurance.
In the meantime, daughter should be paying all the expenses
of the house because Mom doesn't have any more money.
All mom's money is now going to the long term
care facility now that she's on the Medicaid, or will
be if she is not already. Once Mom's on the Medicaid,

(26:05):
then it will be all. It'll be all to mom. Now,
can mom can Mom allow daughter to be in the house. Absolutely, yes, absolutely,
she can allow daughter to be in the house. And
since the rules were changed a couple of years ago,
we're not losing the principal residence exemption either. So the

(26:26):
taxes are going to stay low on the property. That's
no problem. Here's another thing. Daughter is disabled, and by
that I think we mean social security disability. Let me
just restate that it's not enough to be disabled quote
unquote disabled. You have to be on soci security disability.
But if you are on social Security disability, then Mom
can actually dead the house over to you. Mom can

(26:48):
give you the house. Not only can you live there, right,
you can stay there. Not only can you stay there,
you can own it. Mom could deed the house to you.
Now here's the problem. You probably do not have a
power of attorney that allows you to do that, that
allows you to gift the house to yourself, because most
powers of attorneys don't give you the power to give

(27:09):
the house to yourself. Well, that's what I'm talking about.
People not planning for this stuff. And by people I
mean attorneys. By attorneys, I mean to sty planning attorneys,
financial advisor, all the rest of these people. They're not
thinking what happens if I need long term care? What
they're thinking is, I don't even know what they're thinking.
I think there's not much of a thought process going
on there. They think, you just don't know. Bill paying,

(27:32):
checking account, bill paying. Power of attorney is how these
things are typically done. So what we would have to
do in a situation like this is go to probate court. Now,
the probate court is not likely to allow the transfer.
They're not going to do that. That's a bridge too
far for a probate court to allow the transfer directly

(27:53):
to the child. However, however, we have been very successful,
very successful with probate courts giving us allowing us to
do enhanced life estate deeds transfer on death deeds. Right,
we can go in get a protective order that says
when mom dies, when mom dies, then the house goes

(28:15):
to daughter. Okay. The advantage of that, there's some tax advantage.
We get full stepped up basis. That's a good thing. Okay,
and the house is technically still a mom's name and
it doesn't matter if it transferred to Okay, there's no
real negative annual property tax implications to that, because it's

(28:35):
a transfer between relatives of the first degree, so there's
no untapping daughters living there. So we're going to keep
the principal residence exemption. But they typically unless you have
a power of attorney that specifically authorizes it, and very
few ours do. See how wonderful we are, but most
don't because they're not even thinking about this stuff for

(28:58):
no reason that I can discern. Anyway, That's what that's
what we're doing here. Okay, that's that's the idea, is
how do we maximize right what's available for the kids.
How do we maximize what's available for mom? This would
be one where be very easy, but because I very

(29:18):
much doubt that you've got a power of attorney that
will allow you to do it, you're going to need
to go to probate court. But you got to go
to probate court because if you don't go to probate
court and get that thing transferred over to you with
lady bird deed, you know, transferring death deed or directly,
then when it goes to probate, which it will go
to probate, then the state is going to get the house.
We have to avoid that. We should avoid that. So

(29:39):
The answer is all good news. The things that can
be done here right, let's do the good things. You're
listening to the David Carrier Show. Carrier your families personally attorney.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now, this
is the David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Now's the time I don't bother
call him because I've only got ten minutes here and
the next hour is going to be a rerun. Sorry
about that. Feel bad about every time I have to
do that, but hey, you get an hour alive next email.

(30:19):
This is a common situation. I feel very sorry for
this person, but they're screwed. I have been my mom's
power of attorney and caregiver for the last six years.
She's been diagnosed with Alzheimer's been showing severe mental decline
this last year. In order to compensate for the time
and care and ability to go out to work, I've
began paying myself three thousand bucks a month to compensate

(30:42):
due to care for her, out of the sixty thousand
she has squirreled away. In addition to caregiver. I am
the power of attorney. You know you're the agent under
the power of attorney. Actually, and my name is also
on her bank account. I feel guilty paying myself, but
a care home cost much much more. Plus this has
put financial strain on my family. Yeah, no kidding. My

(31:04):
concern isn't whether I'm doing anything wrong here? Yes you are.
Can I be both power of attorney and caregiver? Is
it better to move her to doing this sister living?
To protect myself? She will eventually need support from Medicaid
VA spousal benefits for dementia care. How do I best
look at this? Forgive my rambling. I am feeling tired

(31:26):
and burned out.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Now.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
The mistake that this person has made is go it's
every single day, okay, because you're caring for your loved one.
You've moved in, you're helping out, you're doing all this stuff.
You can't work anymore, and mom wants you to get paid,
says so all the rest of this stuff. But the
problem is that you cannot have a family member as

(31:50):
a caregiver. You can't pay a caregiver, any caregiver without
a written contract, and the bridge's eligibility manual, the Medicaid
rules tell you you what has to be in the contract. Now,
the fact of the matter is that back in the day,
and I mean I don't know if it's fifteen or
twenty years ago, it was a long time ago. Everything
seems like a long time ago to me now these

(32:12):
days anyway, But it was a long time ago. Actually,
it seems like it was yesterday, but I don't know
for sure. It was more than ten years ago. They
changed the rules. They made it like impossible for a
family member to be a caregiver. No, I don't say impossible.
I said like impossible because it's very difficult to comply
with the rules. And we've had applications and we have

(32:35):
a care case workers that demonstrated just how impossible it
is to actually if the caregivers, excuse me, if the
case workers enforce the rules the way the rules are written,
like to the letter of the law, it's like impossible
to qualify. Almost impossible. I mean you have to they

(32:56):
have to give you stuff. They have to kind of
not worry about certain aspects of the Medicaid rules. That's
not because they're bad people or being too nice. That's
not it. It's that the way the rules are written,
it's like impossible to actually qualify if somebody actually enforced
all the rules. And this is like a perfect example

(33:17):
of what happens. You've got a family member who comes
in doing the righteous thing, doing the good thing, taking
care of mom. Right, Mom, I'm sure would much rather
be being taken care of at home by daughter or
son or whoever. It is as opposed to being in
a long term care facility. And if you've ever been
in a long term care facility, you know exactly what

(33:38):
I'm talking about. Nobody wants to be there, Okay. It's
very very difficult. It's difficult to staff them, it's difficult
to run them, it's difficult to comply with all the
rules and regulations. Those people who run long term care facility,
my heart goes out to them because everything about that enterprise,
everything about it is difficult. It's nothing easy about it. Okay.

(34:00):
And so the idea that you would keep someone at home,
treat them nice, it'd be less expensive, be all the
rest of it. It doesn't matter that it's less expensive,
it doesn't matter that it's better, None of that matters.
What matters is did you comply with the rules, and
the rules are such that if they actually enforce the rules,
you'd never qualify. But something like this, where you're paying

(34:20):
yourself three thousand bucks a month, you can't do it.
You can't do it. Okay, I don't know how long
you've been paying yourself. It's only sixty thousand dollars. That's
not very long anyway, it's less than two years. Are
you kidding me for crying out loud? Let's hope there's
some money left, because this can be fixed, can be
you can fix it, okay, but you got to fix it.

(34:42):
You got to be thinking, how am I going to
qualify mom for the Medicaid? How am I going to
do that? Well, she's not going to qualify right now.
What you're gonna do is you're gonna run that money
out and then when you're broke, then mom needs long
term care, right, and you finally apply for medicaid at
that point. Right. So, let's say let's say that you
paid yourself for a year, you paid yourself for a

(35:04):
year and a half something like that. You used up
to six let's say twenty two months, so sixty six
thousand dollars, right, Let's say that you did that, okay,
and now mom needs long term care, right, because she's
deteriorate to the point where she needs eighteen twenty thousand
bucks a month for skilled care. Let's say, well, Medicaid

(35:27):
is not gonna pay. They're not gonna pay a nickel,
not for six months, at least six months. They're not
gonna pay. She's broke and she's in long term care.
She fell, she did the rehab, now she's in skilled care. Right,
Medicaid is not gonna pay because it's a penalty period
because you took sixty six thousand dollars. But I'm guessing, okay,

(35:49):
and maybe you can't account for more of it. What
does that mean? Well, what that means as a practical
matter is they're gonna come and take the house. Because
the house is the only asset that mom still has. Right,
still has the house, you're living in it. You're kind
of thinking, well, when mom passes, at least i'll have
the house. Three thousand bucks a month is less than
I would make a McDonald's. I would never do this job,

(36:11):
with all its difficulties and heartache and everything. I never
do this job. You couldn't pay me to do this job.
But I'm doing it because I love my mom. But
I got to put groceries on the table. Financial hardship,
et cetera. C Very understandable. The rules don't care about
very understandable. The rules don't care about what you need.
The rules care about. The rules care about right. And

(36:31):
there's requirements for documentation, there's requirements for substantiation, market surveys.
You have to have a prescription for the care. You
have to have a fifteen minute you know, per day care,
fifteen minute increment care plan. All kinds of stuff is required,
and you haven't complied with any of it. I guarantee you,
even though it's the best for mom. Even though as

(36:53):
a practical matter you would say, you know, what's the problem,
No problem. Well, that's the real world, right, that's that's
the world of feelings and family and taking care and
all the rest. But that's not where medicaid lives. Okay.
Medicaid lives in rules, and we have to comply with
the rules. And as I indicated, there's some rules you

(37:18):
just can't comply with because whoever wrote them, you run
into that from time time, Like the rules for family caregivers.
We have a contract that we grew up years ago.
That's an attempt to comply with it. But you know,
when you look at it objectively, can you really comply

(37:39):
with that thing? The rule? You can't look at the
rules and think they meant for somebody to follow this.
You got to look at it and say, well, they
just didn't want anybody doing this, and that's why they
wrote the rules the way they wrote the rules. The
other thing, the other unsung heroes are the case workers.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
You know.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Number one is the people who run the long term
care facilities, God bless them. And the second of the
case workers. They're trying to do the best they can
with what they got, and the fact that we estate
planners aren't helping them out more and aren't helping out
our own clients. You know, it's one of those things
where if everybody was working together, if we're all pulling
the same direction, there's amazing good things that can happen.

(38:18):
But too often we're working at cross purposes, and everybody's
got a difficult job, very very difficult. In the long
term care facilly, very very difficult to be a case
worker to follow the rules and get people the benefits
they are entitled to while following the rules exactly to
the letter. Very difficult thing, even listening to the David

(38:38):
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney with
this person ought to do you ever get hold of it?
And state planning attorney of an elder attorney and I
mean pronto. You've been listening to the David Carrier Show.
I'm David Carrier, your family's a personal attorney. Here we go.