Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. And you have found the place
where we talk about estate planning, elder law, real estate
and business law. So if you have a question, a
comment or concern about will's trust or probate, if you're
wondering how do we beat the high cost. See, here's
the thing. People going broken long term care all the time.
(00:41):
And every time somebody comes to me and says, oh, yeah,
you know when they're broke, right, here's what happened. All
you can do is just shake your head. It never
I haven't had a situation yet where it had to happen.
It's just a matter of getting the benefits that you
pay paid for, that you're earned. And you know, you
(01:05):
talk about psychological manipulation, the fact that people and and
this is true thirty five years of doing this okay.
I mean it's not like I fell off the turnaive
truck yesterday, but with a coconut tree. Anyway, everybody understands
their entitlement to social Security. Everybody gets that. Everybody also
(01:27):
understands Medicare. You know, like, why wouldn't I get Medicare?
Why wouldn't I get Social Security?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I paid for him?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, well you also paid for Medicaid, which is the
thing that pays for one except for very few exceptions,
very so ninety nine point nine percent of long term
care facilities skilled nursing facilities except the Medicaid, like everybody.
And there's two at home care programs. I mean, on
and on. But everyone's like, oh, they managed to bamboozle
(01:57):
you to the fact, to the point where you think
that dedicuide is like the poor box in church, you
know what I mean. They don't put a gun to
your head in church, right, Oh, they don't put a
gun to my head when I pay my taxes. Yeah,
try not paying your taxes and find out what happens. Violence.
Violence is the root of all authority, you know, it's
(02:18):
just the fact of it, right, that's well, they don't
have recourse to violence. You know, too bad for you,
I guess. I mean, how do you enforce the rules?
You don't And I think that's obvious. Look around to
the extent that governments don't enforce the you know, don't
use violence, right, the rules don't get enforced, and now
everything goes to hell in a hand basket. So fundamentally,
(02:41):
you pay your taxes because there's a jail cell at
the end of not paying your taxes for you, I mean,
for an awful lot of very well to do people. No,
they get away with it, but you're not going to
get away with it. I'm not going to get away.
And we don't get away with these things other people do.
That's for them anyway. The point is the point is
that when it comes to long term care, you already
(03:04):
paid for it. Now they make it very difficult. They
make it very difficult for you to access your benefits.
That's true. That is absolutely one hundred percent accurate. This
isn't easy stuff. But if you'd rather lose your cottage
or your life savings or poverish your spouse, well, which
(03:25):
would you rather have jumping through the hoops that they
set up for you or impoverishing your spouse? Losing your cottage,
decimating your life savings.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
You know, I get it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
You don't like your kids, you don't like them. Let's
not leave anything to those rutting people anyway. So here's
a good email. So that's where we're coming from on
this thing.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You already paid for it, just like you paid for
Social Security, just like you paid for medical care. You
also paid for the long term care program which is
called Medicaid, and they have done a fantastic job in
convincing you that you're not worthy. Well, buy into it
if you want to. I've never bought into it. I
think it's totally bogus, wrong, horrible, terrible, and it's not
(04:08):
likely my opinion is going to change at this point.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
But now you never know. Give me a call.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
They convinced me different, convince me that that.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
If I pay for a program, I shouldn't get it.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Okay, fine, you know, let's start with Social Security anyway.
If I passed before my wife, can I protect this
in an email? Can I protect our two children if
she would remarry from her new husband, protect our two
children from her new husband if she should remarry and
say he has kids? Getting he has kids boohoo, I'm
sixty seven, not in great health, been married now for
(04:41):
forty seven years. If I die before my wife and
say she remarried, right, is there any way to protect
the estate from him, and say he has kids getting
their hands say he has kids getting their hands on
my child children's inheritance. The answer is yes, yes, there is,
Yes there is. Does that mean that that kids aren't
routinely disinherited? No, it doesn't mean that. And this is
(05:05):
sort of a not at all unusual situation. Right, So
the spouse dies, they remarry, right, and then everything goes
joint in joint names, right, and your kids don't even
find out about it, you know, they get to death
notice and all the property was automatically transferred through the
joint tendencies or beneficiary designations to the other spouse.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
And now your.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Kids too bad for you? Okay, Like I say, if
you don't like your kids, and that's fine, but what
if you do like your kids? So there are a
number of ways to address this number of ways to
address it. The kind of the easiest way is to
(05:51):
restrict the surviving spouses ability to change beneficiaries. You do
the trust, you put your assets in the trust right,
and then you restrict the surviving spouse's ability to change
the beneficiaries. It's called the power of appointment. You restrict
their power of appointment what they can what they can
change in the trust. Now this you can't do this
(06:12):
with a revocable trust.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
That doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
But you could do this with with the protection trust
that we do. And we've done it quite a bit,
and you know, people seem to like it. That's good,
But there are other situations where we need more control
because even with the uh with the typical thing, with
(06:35):
a typical way we do it, we're just restrict where
they can still spend the money on themselves, right, the
spouse can. So what if the spouse buys a yacht,
right and retitles it in the name of the new spouse,
you know, the name of the replacement spouse there.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Okay, what if that happens?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Or what if they just spend the money and you
know like that, Well, the surviving spouse can do that,
and now the money's not in the trust anymore, and
so your protection there is they got around it. Okay,
So what if we what if we need to upgrade
the protect the protection Okay, what if you want to
(07:11):
do that. One thing that that you can do is
when at the first death a certain amount of money
like the residents, typically the residence goes into a trust,
stays in trust right. The residence trust is now irrevocable.
The spouse can't change the disposition of that. And there's
(07:32):
a third it's important, there's a third party trustee who
is the trustee of that of that trust, of.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
The residence trust.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Uh. And you can put money in there, you can
put the residents in there. And the whole idea is
that that would be there to provide residents for the
for the surviving spouse. Okay, And if you haven't done
any investment or anything like that, you haven't done a
medicaid plan, that would be divested property because you're you're
(08:02):
doing a investment there from the spouse. But you would
also want to make this a trust established by will. Okay,
that way it would be exempt from the medicaid for
the surviving for their surviving spouse. Doesn't work any other way.
So if you set up a trust for the benefit
of your spouse, all the assets in that trust are
(08:24):
going to count against the spouse, right, just as if
the spouse have full control over them. So there is
a technique that you use to make this thing work.
The other thing that we do. The other thing that
we do is we call it stove piping, and this
is appropriate, more appropriate for both both spouses come to
(08:46):
the party with assets and with kids. Right, so you
both you both have your own stuff, and you would
like this stuff to go to your side of the family,
maybe at the first death, when you die, you'd really
like your kids to get it right then and there
or after after the second spouse dies, you want to
(09:07):
make sure that your assets are still intact for the
benefit of your for the benefit of your kids. So
again this has to be done correctly. It's the stove
piping idea is where instead of the spouses coming together
and typically when people get married they throw their assets
(09:30):
in together. Instead of that, think of it going down
the stovepipe. Each one has their own pipe, their own
pipeline to their to their kids. As long as you're here,
the stuff is there being shared. But when you die,
we shovel it in the in the stovepipe and it
goes it goes down in the In the army, whenever
you had a somebody who didn't answer to the chain
(09:51):
of command. You know, you didn't have to go through
the usual steps. We call it stove piping. That's why
I call it. It seems appropriate because it's the same
idea that you go directly from one place to the
other and you cut out, cut out the people in
the middle, right, and that's what that's why we do.
We call it stovepiping. But the idea is there are
there's a wide range of protection that you can offer
(10:14):
your kids. It just depends how deeply you want to
get into it. The problem with these is you don't
really know how far you have to go until you
get into the problem and then it's too late. So
generally what we'll do is we just go all out,
(10:37):
you know what I mean. We'll just do the most
powerful thing power, the strongest protection possible, because you never
know if that's the level of protection you're going to need.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
You just don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
You've been listening to The David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven four twenty four.
This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier.
Uh well, we're not going to Catman do today anyway.
Six one, six seven seven four twenty four to twenty four.
That's the number to call six one, six seven seven
four twenty four twenty four if you have a question,
comment or concern. Now here's the thing we're just talking about.
You know, it's every once in a while I get these,
(11:26):
uh read these emails. It makes you think of something else, right,
And the idea here is how can I protect the
two kids, you know from the spouse?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Right, So if the spouse.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Remarries, we always call this the the dance instructor pool
boy issue.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Right, So.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
The wife dies and next thing you know, you're taking
dance lessons and the whoops or the pool boy gets familiar. Whatever,
So the Biff and Bambi issue, or the you know,
Fifi and Ron Woolf problem, whatever you want to call it.
The point here is this, as I'm thinking about it,
(12:06):
there's a range of things that you can do. Right,
There's a range of things that you can do, from
changing wording in the in the trust to doing a
residence trust to locking down the whole thing, stove piping
and all the rest. Okay, so there are there are,
there's a range of things that you get. But you know,
when you think about it, it's like cheapers and I
(12:32):
get knocked on this all the time anyway, people say,
well do I need that? You know, this is the
this is the question you get all the time. Oh
do I really need all this? Do I really need that?
Is this a good idea?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Blah blah blah? And so they do.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Crazy you know, things that wind up being insane, like
the Lady Bird deeds, like the transfer on death beneficiary accounts,
all this stuff, right where where if everything goes well?
You know, it's the same question we had earlier, you know,
with with the folks who are taking care of the
guy right in his check and paying his bills and
(13:09):
they get reimbursed for cash. Is it possible that that
would work out? Okay, Yeah, it's possible. Is it possible
that it would totally go to hell in a handbasket?
Yeah that's possible too, right, which is more likely? I
don't know, I mean you, is that really what you
want to gamble your peace of mind on?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Oh? It's less likely.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Oh you know that doesn't happen that much really, So
that's the deal. Huh. That's what you want to that's
what you that's the way you want to play in
your future is well, yeah, it might turn into a
bucket or you know what, but that's okay by me
because it's not guaranteed to turn into a bucket.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Really.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You know, it's like it's like this thing, Well, do
you really want to protect your kids or don't you?
Because if you really do, here's how you do it.
There's a way to do it, okay, And then you know,
and this is the problem because hindsight, I don't know
if you've noticed this. Hindsight is twenty twenty Monday morning quarterback,
and that's easy. You know, everything looks stupid on Monday morning.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Right. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
You ever hear about that one?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Seemed like a good idea at the time, right, Oh, well,
they didn't want to they didn't want to push it
that hard or whatever. I've gotten into trouble because because
we went the extra mile and then later on people
are like, oh, you know, it didn't it didn't It
didn't work out the way you thought it was going
to work out.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
It's like that is never Here's the key.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I don't do planning based on how I think an
individual's situation is going to turn out. I don't do
that because I'm humble enough to realize that I have
no way of knowing knowing how it's going to turn out, right,
I don't. I don't know how any particular you know,
I don't know how any particular situation is going to
(15:07):
turn out, and neither do you, and neither does anybody else.
Now in retrospect, oh, whoa, that's obvious. Nothing's obvious. Nothing's
obvious until it's over. And then when it's over, well, okay,
then it's pretty obvious that that would have happened. So
my attitude is, always tell me what you want, what
(15:27):
you really really want, and then we'll do something that
in all reasonable circumstances will that will occur, and reasonable
circumstances including things going to hell in worse ways than
you can possibly imagine. You know, you're on rocket sled
to the bad place. Okay, fine, does it still work? Yeah,
(15:51):
it still works. Okay, that's the that's the philosophy, right,
Because I've said this before, like people look at the
documents that we do. Oh oh my goodness, look at
all those all those pages. Do I really need that?
And the answer is no, you only need about ten
percent of it. Now you tell me which ninety percent
to throw away because you know what's going to happen next, right,
(16:14):
Your crystal ball isn't working order, right, mine isn't.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I just know. I just know that things happen, and
if they do happen, then they happen to you. Are
you happy with me or you unhappy with me? Well,
if I told you that every day was a sunny day,
if I told you that, oh this never, you know,
it'll be fine. I mean, what kind of philosophy is
(16:41):
that for going through that, especially for planning it'll be fine?
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Who believes that?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Well, the answer is, we have a lot of incentive
to believe that. That's that's the reality of the thing.
It's much simpler, much easier, much cheaper, much everything else.
You don't have to worry about it if you just
tell yourself everything's gonna be fine, every day's a sunny day. Well, okay,
that's how people go broke, That's how families go broke.
(17:09):
That's why now the middle class is under under such pressure.
Right now, this is my opinion, right why is everything
so terrible, awful horrible? Well, not everything is, but yeah,
don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
That's kind of my attitude, is this whole thing. It's like, oh,
(17:32):
you didn't need to do that, Well, you didn't know that.
I didn't need to do that until it didn't happen.
But if it had happened, I mean most of seriously,
most of the stuff that we do, it's not gonna
happen to everybody, and certainly not everything always happens to everybody.
But if it does happen to you, I'm either making
excuses or I'm delivering results. In the now here, I'm
(17:55):
going to cry for myself a little bit a little
sympathy here. It's like when when one of the things
that we always do that no one else ever does,
when it pays off, guess what, no one appreciates it.
No one appreciates it. Well, of course, well of course
it worked. That's what we paid you for it. And
(18:17):
you know I get that that is what you paid
me for That's why you came here.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Right, because we don't me and me and me and
it didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
It's like, no, it works out. It works out because
we put a lot of effort into making it work out.
But the flip side of that is the flip side
of that is we do a lot of things that
are you know that to my in my experience, other
people aren't doing. We're worried about stuff other people aren't
worried about, and an awful lot of what we do
is not common. Now it's not the way it's done,
(18:47):
the quote unquote way it's done right. So it does
get frustrating. You know, it's like people don't get what
we're doing. And oh, you know, it's like funding putting
your assets in the trust right, who the hell does that?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
It's a pain any ass you won't like it.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
You know, I've got people, Oh, my friend's attorney must
be much better than you. They only they only have
to go there one time. They signed the documents and
they were done. And now you'll keep calling us with
the insurance companies and the financial advisor and all the
other it's so much of a hassle and we have
to keep coming back to you know, get all this
stuff in the trust and I'm like, that's what you're
(19:29):
paying me for, right, to make sure the dime. You know,
the thing works right, But in order to make it work,
you've got to go through this process. And would you know,
would it be easier, simpler, quicker, blah blah blah. I
could say that, but it isn't true. And and and
the thing is, it's not. Sometimes it is true. Sometimes
(19:51):
it does work out super but you don't have any
reason for thinking that. You know, you're just kind of hoping,
and that is no basis for planning in my mind opinion.
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
David's got the how too you're looking for Just call
seven seven twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Wellcome back to the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney. This is one
of my favorite lead in solo.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So oh, come on, here you go. You gotta love this,
don't you.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I just you know, we should just do a radio
show where it's just a music. Thank you, Bob Seger.
You're listening to the David Carrier show.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I'm just sitting there. I'm not strutting or nothing.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Anyway, Welcome back the radio show where the bumper music
is almost always better than the radio show itself.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Easy to observe, hard to admit, but truth is the truth.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
There you are, Hey, let's get to another Oh six one, six, seven,
seven four, twenty four, twenty four. If you'd like to
get your question, comment or concern on the air. Yeah,
we're just talking about trusts. And you know what if
you set up a trust for somebody else, for your
spouse or what have you. Okay, so it is not
at all unusual. Let's get into that dive a little deeper.
(21:41):
It's not at all unusual for people to get married
at more of an advanced age, shall we say, than
they used to. And it is not at all unusual
for people getting married to have a primary residence. Sometimes
both have primary residences. Incidentally, you can only have one
primary residence at a time. And if you claim too
in different states and hope they don't catch you, well,
(22:03):
you may get away with it for a while. But
as some people are finding out, the wheels of justice
grind slow, but they grind exceeding fine. And you may
get caught anyway, So don't climb two primary residents different places.
Spouses can have different primary Your spouse can have one
primary residence, you can have another one. But there's other
requirements there too, I mean, And anyway, don't commit fraud.
(22:25):
It's bad, it's stupid, it's it's evil, and you'll burn.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
In health for it anyway.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So not at all unusual, as I say, Sometimes we'll
sell one house, pay off the other house. All kinds
of permutations of very a theme. But let's say that
there is now one house that really belonged to one spouse, right,
and or the.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Or it belongs to both.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Spouses, right, And when you die, you want your spouse
to continue in the house. That's cool, right, But what
you don't want to do is what everybody does, which
is to either dd it over to the other spouse
and now you disinherited your kids that idea, or you
give your spouse a life estate in that house. Big mistake,
(23:08):
terrible idea, but people do it all the time. And
the idea what the life estate is? Will you get
to live in that as long as you're alive, you
get to live here, But when you die then it
goes on to the next and you say, well, what's
the matter with that? And I said, well, there's a
lot of things that can happen between one spouse dying
and the other spouse dying. Okay, yeah, you want to
(23:30):
provide a residence for your spouse.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
I get it. That's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
But who's going to pay the property taxes? And what
if you don't actually use the house?
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Right? Do we sell it at that point? What happens?
Who gets it? What if you go into a nursing home? Right?
What if you're going to senior housing? What if? What if?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
There's all these what ifs which nobody wants to address.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
This is what I was just talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Right, you got to plan for this stuff, and if
everything goes smooth, when I guess everything goes smooth, but
what if it doesn't?
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Did you plan ahead for this? Did you make sure
that you knew what was going on? So here's the
email that made me think about this. If a revocable trust,
revocable trust with not revocable anymore because a person died, right,
does not mention? If a revocable trust does not mention,
who is responsible for real estate tax? Payment the annual
property taxes. The living trust tenants have to pay it.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Well, if it.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Doesn't mention it, why didn't mention it? Okay, thirteen years
we as life tenants paid property taxes. Well, that would
be appropriate. Due to medical and financial problems, we stopped
paying three years ago.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Whoopsies.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Now the beneficiary, the remainder beneficiary, the person gets the
house at the.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
End of the day.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
An incident, lane. Just because you're a life tenant doesn't
mean you can abuse the property. It's called waste. You
can't commit waste on the property, and the life tenants
are presumed to pay all the expenses and maintain the property.
You don't have to put a swimming pool in, you
don't have to do major repairs what I mean capital
type improvements, but you have to maintain it. You cannot
(25:04):
commit waste. Typically right now, the remainder beneficiary is also
the trustee and wants us out so she can sell
the property. Did we break the trust? You probably did?
It sounds like it. Sounds like it. You assume the
responsibility for thirteen years, right, thirteen years you paid, you
paid the property taxes, which would suggest that you were
(25:27):
generally speaking you're presumed, you know, whoever the tenant is
presumed to pay the the property taxes. But why isn't
it spelled out? You see, So whenever we do a
residence trust like this, just saying, what are the other
things that can happen? Well, what if you don't maintain
the property, What if you don't pay the taxes?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
What if you.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Rent it out? What if you move somebody else in.
What if you go to a long term care facility,
what if you just don't use it?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
You know all these what ifs.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
So when you make someone life tenant of the property, right,
how are you going to terminate that? They don't have
to pay the taxes if you make them their beneficiary
and their trust, so they do have to pay.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
But what if they're not.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
What if they're not What if you just gave them
a life estate, they don't have to pay the taxes?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Who says? Who says?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Where does it say? That doesn't say that? So what's
going to happen? The government can take the can take
the property because the property.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Taxes weren't paid.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So now the remainder beneficiary has to step up and
protect their interest in the property. Okay, that's that's kind
of how that works. Now, what if you put in
all these what ifs, Well, then if they don't maintain
the property, if they shack up with somebody, if if
they need long term care or whatever, then the residence privilege,
(26:47):
the privilege of living in the residence terminates, and now
the house gets sold and the property goes on to
the remainder beneficiaries. However you decide to design that. Okay,
these are things that have up and not every time.
Does it ever work that someone's life?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yes? Does it occasionally work? Yeah? Occasionally works? Right? Does
it usually work? I don't. I wouldn't say it usually works,
but maybe it does. Maybe.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
You know, you get a simple majority of time. But
you didn't plan for anything. See, this is the frustrating part.
It's like, it's like you got away with it. Is
that really how you want to do this? Yeah, you
got away with it. Well, good for you, Good for you.
You got away with that. Wrong, Let's see, let's get
let's get another one. Can three siblings dissolve the irrevocable
(27:39):
trust after his death?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
If we all agree, you're gonna have to go to
court to do that. Generally speaking, you're gonna have to
join all the beneficiaries. But courts are usually kind of sympathetic,
you know, frankly, Uh, they're kind of sympathetic to dissolving
trust right to what we call decanting, uh, decanting the
true cost. If all the beneficiaries and potential beneficiaries agree,
(28:06):
you do have to go through court to do that,
and you're going to have to get all the potential
beneficiaries together. Let's see, I need to know if as
success or trustee I'm allowed to obtain a loan against
the trust to purchase home from the trust? What grandmother
created a trust place home in the trust after grandfather
(28:31):
died house originally living children. My mother had to obtain
a hard money loan to buy out the two of
the six. The rest signed over the rights the house
could stay in the family. I live in the home
and I pay the loan. Blah blah. Mother is trustee,
I'm successor trustee. All other beneficiaries would only benefit or
my removal my mother no longer hard money loan do
(28:52):
in full. I have a hard time trying to buy
my own inheritance. But's knowing I have to pay increased
property taxes as a straight per can I have successor
trustee do a refinance with cash out totally and amended
trust to my trust as trustee.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
If you're the beneficiary and it kind of sounds like that,
what you don't want to do, what this guy doesn't
want to do is have to borrow the money to
pay the entire amount. Let's say it's a half a
million dollar property and he's a twenty percent owner, right,
he doesn't want to have to borrow half a million. Well,
that's usually fine. I mean, trustee doesn't usually care because
(29:31):
once the other beneficiary is the pecuniary beneficiaries, the people
are going to get money get paid off.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
So that's how that would That's how it would go.
In terms of uncapping, it looks like they're worried about
uncapping the property taxes your relative of the first degree
based on the thing. So there wouldn't be any uncapping.
Back in the day, there would have been.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
But not anymore. Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
So when you're dealing with houses that stay in trust residences,
these are just some of the permutations that can come up.
This is why you have to plan ahead for this
stuff so when it does rear its uglyhead. Right, you've
dealt with it, You've already thought about it. You've got
some tools to deal with it. That's that's my point.
This is a good example of that. You've been listening
to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's
(30:18):
personal attorney, inviting you to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com.
Talk to our AI assistant. There. Not legal advice, but
but really pretty interesting information, you might say. Also a
very nice way to navigate the website without clicking on everything.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
David's working and working and taking your calls. Now. This
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Welcome back to the David Carriers Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, inviting you to one of our
Three Secrets workshops. Go to the website, sign up for
one of the Three Secrets or hang out on there.
You know you should give us a call six one
six three six one eighty four hundred. That's six one
six three six one eighty four hundred if you'd like
(31:04):
to come to a life plan workshop or one.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Of our Three Secrets workshops.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
These are the workshops we're doing in up and Muskegan,
down in Portage Over in Holland, and of course at
the at the Home Office in Grand Rapids, Michigan. That's
where we're doing the workshops. So and we're doing them
all the time. So uh, when the when the when
the you know, when the itch strikes, you can scratch
(31:30):
it right away anyway.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
The really that means the purpose of.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
The Three Secrets is that you know, people are like, oh,
you know, things are terrible, and it's like things are
worse than you imagine. You know, it's not that things
aren't as bad as you know, things aren't as bad
as we shame, they're worse. Anyway, find out at the
Three Secrets workshop, the stuff that nobody else is telling you.
It's not like I don't make hints on the on
the show. I do, but come to the Three Secrets,
(31:56):
you know it'd be worth it, be worthwhile. One of
the things we're talking about today is what happens when
you die and you're trying to leave something somebody else.
So I got another one of those someone someone who
wants to leave me money when they die, when they
pass away, I am married. Their intention is that it
(32:16):
goes only to me, not to my wife. Someone wants
to leave me money when they pass away.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I am married.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Their intention is that the money they leave go only
to me and not be vulnerable if I get divorced.
Can a trust be set up to do that? Or
another vehicle? Now here's the thing. This is a universal problem.
It's not a one and done. It's not an unusual thing.
So whenever we do planning, and I'm trying to think
(32:44):
of an exception, whether we do a will or you know,
when we do a wills occasionally, whether it's a will
or a trust or what have you, we never never's
a big word, so hardly ever, Like I can't remember
time we just made an outright distribution to the beneficiary, right.
(33:06):
I think it's in what people do with the ladybird deeds.
You've heard me complain about this, the ladybird deeds and
beneficiary designations and all the rest of this. It's it's
like arrogant presumption, ignorant, arrogant, I don't know, whatever you.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Want to say.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
The notion is that either you don't care whether or
not you're beneficiary actually gets what you're leaving to them.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Do you not care?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Does it matter to you? Well, look and I've been
making this offer for thirty five years. If you really
don't care what happens to your stuff when you're dead,
leave it to me. Just give it to me. I
could use it, I promise you I would. I would
enjoy it. So if you're looking for a beneficiary and
you don't have one, David H.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Carrier, just give it to me.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
But you know what, knowing ever taken me up on that.
You know, they tell Oh, I don't really care if
my kids get or no, no, I don't want to. Okay, fine,
give it to me. If you really don't care. Oh
well wait a second, Oh well wait a second, Yeah
I care a little bit. Okay, So if you do
care a little bit that your beneficiaries get your money
(34:16):
instead of giving it to me, it breaks my heart
every time it happens. Then why not make sure that
the kid actually gets the money, right? Why don't you
make sure that it's more than luck, that it's more
than happenstance, that it's more than gee, I kind of
hope this happens, but I didn't do anything to make
sure it would happen. Right, Why don't you do a
(34:39):
little bit of that? And that's what that's what we do.
You know, routinely, what we do is we never distribute outright,
We never just say for And then this is whenever
I see this in documents, and it's in all of them,
it's like, forthright, free from trust immediately shall well you
(35:00):
know all these words that mean, dump the money on
the kid as quickly as you possibly can, Okay, because
why because why not? Because that's what that's what I want.
I want you to just dump the money and the kid. Yeah,
the kids in bankruptcy, kids getting divorced. And then you
hear people say, oh, inheritances don't count in divorce. I
know the losses inheritances don't count in divorce. You think
(35:22):
they don't count, They count, especially you commingle the assets.
They count in the negotiation, they count, right, But if
you have it separated out in a trust just for
the beneficiary, right, which is what we do, it's close
to one hundred percent of the time, and I think
it is. I can remember a couple of things where
people fought me on it, but I fought back. And
(35:43):
because there's ways to set these up so that the
kid can get the money. In sixty percent of the time.
They do just want the money, So fine, make an
outright distribution, you can do that. But why wouldn't you
put it in trust so there's asset protection right for
the beneficiary. I mean, we have I don't know how many,
probably dozens of kids beneficiaries in prison. All right, we
(36:07):
got a couple on level five, you know, the you know,
life without possibility of parole. It doesn't matter. The money
is protected for them. They get to choose their toothpaste
or whatever it is you get to determine on level five.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
I don't know what it is, but.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
It's not much, but you still get that, you know,
because mom wanted to leave it for sunny boy, not
for Department of Corrections, not to pay his his room
and boarded in the prison. Okay, but it also works
in divorce, It also works in bankruptcy, creditor situations, taxes,
all the rest of it. Why aren't you protecting the
(36:41):
inheritance for your kids? Well, because nobody wants to think
about that. Nobody will, you know, we're on denial. Nobody
wants to think about, Oh, bad things might happen. Well, okay,
then why not protect it right? Well, because nobody wants
to think about it. So we just assumed that nothing
better happened, and now the money doesn't go where your
(37:03):
life savings don't go where you want them to go,
because we didn't.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
You know, that wasn't part of it.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
So in a situation like this, it's like this is
kind of routine for us, right, I mean, this is
just yeah, we don't have to do anything special because
we already did it. Now, if you want to take it,
the next step to say that the beneficiary cannot cannot
give the money to the spouse, right, cannot. There's ways
to do that also, you know you can. You can
(37:30):
layer on more protection, right, whether it's a residence trust
where you control who the ultimate beneficiaries are and you
determine how much money gets spent in the meantime, there's
always there's all things you can do. But fundamentally, fundamentally,
what you want to do is make sure that you're
paying right, or that you're holding and disposing of the
(37:51):
inheritance for the benefit of the people you want to benefit,
not their creditors, right, not their creditors and predators, right,
not the other people. Let's hold on to the inheritance
for the people you wanted to inherit it, and so
these kind of you know, like this is like, ooh,
(38:11):
how would I ever do that? Well, the answer is
every single day. It's the only way we do it
is so it's protected for the beneficiary. But in addition
to complete protection, we also have complete control on the
behalf of the beneficiary. Those two have to go together.
You've been listening to the David Carriers Show. I'm David
Carrier inviting you to a three Secrets workshop. Just go
(38:34):
to the website David Carrier Law dot com. That's David
Carrier Law all one word dot com and sign up.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I'll see you there.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. A lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference. So when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show, or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(39:20):
visit Davidcarrier Law dot com.
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. And you have found the place
where we talk about estate planning, elder law, real estate
and business law. So if you have a question, a
comment or concern about will's trust or probate, if you're
wondering how do we beat the high cost. See, here's
the thing. People going broken long term care all the time.
(00:41):
And every time somebody comes to me and says, oh, yeah,
you know when they're broke, right, here's what happened. All
you can do is just shake your head. It never
I haven't had a situation yet where it had to happen.
It's just a matter of getting the benefits that you
pay paid for, that you're earned. And you know, you
(01:05):
talk about psychological manipulation, the fact that people and and
this is true thirty five years of doing this okay.
I mean it's not like I fell off the turnaive
truck yesterday, but with a coconut tree. Anyway, everybody understands
their entitlement to social Security. Everybody gets that. Everybody also
(01:27):
understands Medicare. You know, like, why wouldn't I get Medicare?
Why wouldn't I get Social Security?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I paid for him?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, well you also paid for Medicaid, which is the
thing that pays for one except for very few exceptions,
very so ninety nine point nine percent of long term
care facilities skilled nursing facilities except the Medicaid, like everybody.
And there's two at home care programs. I mean, on
and on. But everyone's like, oh, they managed to bamboozle
(01:57):
you to the fact, to the point where you think
that dedicuide is like the poor box in church, you
know what I mean. They don't put a gun to
your head in church, right, Oh, they don't put a
gun to my head when I pay my taxes. Yeah,
try not paying your taxes and find out what happens. Violence.
Violence is the root of all authority, you know, it's
(02:18):
just the fact of it, right, that's well, they don't
have recourse to violence. You know, too bad for you,
I guess. I mean, how do you enforce the rules?
You don't And I think that's obvious. Look around to
the extent that governments don't enforce the you know, don't
use violence, right, the rules don't get enforced, and now
everything goes to hell in a hand basket. So fundamentally,
(02:41):
you pay your taxes because there's a jail cell at
the end of not paying your taxes for you, I mean,
for an awful lot of very well to do people. No,
they get away with it, but you're not going to
get away with it. I'm not going to get away.
And we don't get away with these things other people do.
That's for them anyway. The point is the point is
that when it comes to long term care, you already
(03:04):
paid for it. Now they make it very difficult. They
make it very difficult for you to access your benefits.
That's true. That is absolutely one hundred percent accurate. This
isn't easy stuff. But if you'd rather lose your cottage
or your life savings or poverish your spouse, well, which
(03:25):
would you rather have jumping through the hoops that they
set up for you or impoverishing your spouse? Losing your cottage,
decimating your life savings.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
You know, I get it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
You don't like your kids, you don't like them. Let's
not leave anything to those rutting people anyway. So here's
a good email. So that's where we're coming from on
this thing.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You already paid for it, just like you paid for
Social Security, just like you paid for medical care. You
also paid for the long term care program which is
called Medicaid, and they have done a fantastic job in
convincing you that you're not worthy. Well, buy into it
if you want to. I've never bought into it. I
think it's totally bogus, wrong, horrible, terrible, and it's not
(04:08):
likely my opinion is going to change at this point.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
But now you never know. Give me a call.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
They convinced me different, convince me that that.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
If I pay for a program, I shouldn't get it.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Okay, fine, you know, let's start with Social Security anyway.
If I passed before my wife, can I protect this
in an email? Can I protect our two children if
she would remarry from her new husband, protect our two
children from her new husband if she should remarry and
say he has kids? Getting he has kids boohoo, I'm
sixty seven, not in great health, been married now for
(04:41):
forty seven years. If I die before my wife and
say she remarried, right, is there any way to protect
the estate from him, and say he has kids getting
their hands say he has kids getting their hands on
my child children's inheritance. The answer is yes, yes, there is,
Yes there is. Does that mean that that kids aren't
routinely disinherited? No, it doesn't mean that. And this is
(05:05):
sort of a not at all unusual situation. Right, So
the spouse dies, they remarry, right, and then everything goes
joint in joint names, right, and your kids don't even
find out about it, you know, they get to death
notice and all the property was automatically transferred through the
joint tendencies or beneficiary designations to the other spouse.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
And now your.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Kids too bad for you? Okay, Like I say, if
you don't like your kids, and that's fine, but what
if you do like your kids? So there are a
number of ways to address this number of ways to
address it. The kind of the easiest way is to
(05:51):
restrict the surviving spouses ability to change beneficiaries. You do
the trust, you put your assets in the trust right,
and then you restrict the surviving spouse's ability to change
the beneficiaries. It's called the power of appointment. You restrict
their power of appointment what they can what they can
change in the trust. Now this you can't do this
(06:12):
with a revocable trust.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
That doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
But you could do this with with the protection trust
that we do. And we've done it quite a bit,
and you know, people seem to like it. That's good,
But there are other situations where we need more control
because even with the uh with the typical thing, with
(06:35):
a typical way we do it, we're just restrict where
they can still spend the money on themselves, right, the
spouse can. So what if the spouse buys a yacht,
right and retitles it in the name of the new spouse,
you know, the name of the replacement spouse there.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Okay, what if that happens?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Or what if they just spend the money and you
know like that, Well, the surviving spouse can do that,
and now the money's not in the trust anymore, and
so your protection there is they got around it. Okay,
So what if we what if we need to upgrade
the protect the protection Okay, what if you want to
(07:11):
do that. One thing that that you can do is
when at the first death a certain amount of money
like the residents, typically the residence goes into a trust,
stays in trust right. The residence trust is now irrevocable.
The spouse can't change the disposition of that. And there's
(07:32):
a third it's important, there's a third party trustee who
is the trustee of that of that trust, of.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
The residence trust.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Uh. And you can put money in there, you can
put the residents in there. And the whole idea is
that that would be there to provide residents for the
for the surviving spouse. Okay, And if you haven't done
any investment or anything like that, you haven't done a
medicaid plan, that would be divested property because you're you're
(08:02):
doing a investment there from the spouse. But you would
also want to make this a trust established by will. Okay,
that way it would be exempt from the medicaid for
the surviving for their surviving spouse. Doesn't work any other way.
So if you set up a trust for the benefit
of your spouse, all the assets in that trust are
(08:24):
going to count against the spouse, right, just as if
the spouse have full control over them. So there is
a technique that you use to make this thing work.
The other thing that we do. The other thing that
we do is we call it stove piping, and this
is appropriate, more appropriate for both both spouses come to
(08:46):
the party with assets and with kids. Right, so you
both you both have your own stuff, and you would
like this stuff to go to your side of the family,
maybe at the first death, when you die, you'd really
like your kids to get it right then and there
or after after the second spouse dies, you want to
(09:07):
make sure that your assets are still intact for the
benefit of your for the benefit of your kids. So
again this has to be done correctly. It's the stove
piping idea is where instead of the spouses coming together
and typically when people get married they throw their assets
(09:30):
in together. Instead of that, think of it going down
the stovepipe. Each one has their own pipe, their own
pipeline to their to their kids. As long as you're here,
the stuff is there being shared. But when you die,
we shovel it in the in the stovepipe and it
goes it goes down in the In the army, whenever
you had a somebody who didn't answer to the chain
(09:51):
of command. You know, you didn't have to go through
the usual steps. We call it stove piping. That's why
I call it. It seems appropriate because it's the same
idea that you go directly from one place to the
other and you cut out, cut out the people in
the middle, right, and that's what that's why we do.
We call it stovepiping. But the idea is there are
there's a wide range of protection that you can offer
(10:14):
your kids. It just depends how deeply you want to
get into it. The problem with these is you don't
really know how far you have to go until you
get into the problem and then it's too late. So
generally what we'll do is we just go all out,
(10:37):
you know what I mean. We'll just do the most
powerful thing power, the strongest protection possible, because you never
know if that's the level of protection you're going to need.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
You just don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
You've been listening to The David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven four twenty four.
This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier.
Uh well, we're not going to Catman do today anyway.
Six one, six seven seven four twenty four to twenty four.
That's the number to call six one, six seven seven
four twenty four twenty four if you have a question,
comment or concern. Now here's the thing we're just talking about.
You know, it's every once in a while I get these,
(11:26):
uh read these emails. It makes you think of something else, right,
And the idea here is how can I protect the
two kids, you know from the spouse?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Right, So if the spouse.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Remarries, we always call this the the dance instructor pool
boy issue.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Right, So.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
The wife dies and next thing you know, you're taking
dance lessons and the whoops or the pool boy gets familiar. Whatever,
So the Biff and Bambi issue, or the you know,
Fifi and Ron Woolf problem, whatever you want to call it.
The point here is this, as I'm thinking about it,
(12:06):
there's a range of things that you can do. Right,
There's a range of things that you can do, from
changing wording in the in the trust to doing a
residence trust to locking down the whole thing, stove piping
and all the rest. Okay, so there are there are,
there's a range of things that you get. But you know,
when you think about it, it's like cheapers and I
(12:32):
get knocked on this all the time anyway, people say,
well do I need that? You know, this is the
this is the question you get all the time. Oh
do I really need all this? Do I really need that?
Is this a good idea?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Blah blah blah? And so they do.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Crazy you know, things that wind up being insane, like
the Lady Bird deeds, like the transfer on death beneficiary accounts,
all this stuff, right where where if everything goes well?
You know, it's the same question we had earlier, you know,
with with the folks who are taking care of the
guy right in his check and paying his bills and
(13:09):
they get reimbursed for cash. Is it possible that that
would work out? Okay, Yeah, it's possible. Is it possible
that it would totally go to hell in a handbasket?
Yeah that's possible too, right, which is more likely? I
don't know, I mean you, is that really what you
want to gamble your peace of mind on?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Oh? It's less likely.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Oh you know that doesn't happen that much really, So
that's the deal. Huh. That's what you want to that's
what you that's the way you want to play in
your future is well, yeah, it might turn into a
bucket or you know what, but that's okay by me
because it's not guaranteed to turn into a bucket.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Really.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You know, it's like it's like this thing, Well, do
you really want to protect your kids or don't you?
Because if you really do, here's how you do it.
There's a way to do it, okay, And then you know,
and this is the problem because hindsight, I don't know
if you've noticed this. Hindsight is twenty twenty Monday morning quarterback,
and that's easy. You know, everything looks stupid on Monday morning.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Right. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
You ever hear about that one?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Seemed like a good idea at the time, right, Oh, well,
they didn't want to they didn't want to push it
that hard or whatever. I've gotten into trouble because because
we went the extra mile and then later on people
are like, oh, you know, it didn't it didn't It
didn't work out the way you thought it was going
to work out.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
It's like that is never Here's the key.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I don't do planning based on how I think an
individual's situation is going to turn out. I don't do
that because I'm humble enough to realize that I have
no way of knowing knowing how it's going to turn out, right,
I don't. I don't know how any particular you know,
I don't know how any particular situation is going to
(15:07):
turn out, and neither do you, and neither does anybody else.
Now in retrospect, oh, whoa, that's obvious. Nothing's obvious. Nothing's
obvious until it's over. And then when it's over, well, okay,
then it's pretty obvious that that would have happened. So
my attitude is, always tell me what you want, what
(15:27):
you really really want, and then we'll do something that
in all reasonable circumstances will that will occur, and reasonable
circumstances including things going to hell in worse ways than
you can possibly imagine. You know, you're on rocket sled
to the bad place. Okay, fine, does it still work? Yeah,
(15:51):
it still works. Okay, that's the that's the philosophy, right,
Because I've said this before, like people look at the
documents that we do. Oh oh my goodness, look at
all those all those pages. Do I really need that?
And the answer is no, you only need about ten
percent of it. Now you tell me which ninety percent
to throw away because you know what's going to happen next, right,
(16:14):
Your crystal ball isn't working order, right, mine isn't.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I just know. I just know that things happen, and
if they do happen, then they happen to you. Are
you happy with me or you unhappy with me? Well,
if I told you that every day was a sunny day,
if I told you that, oh this never, you know,
it'll be fine. I mean, what kind of philosophy is
(16:41):
that for going through that, especially for planning it'll be fine?
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Who believes that?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Well, the answer is, we have a lot of incentive
to believe that. That's that's the reality of the thing.
It's much simpler, much easier, much cheaper, much everything else.
You don't have to worry about it if you just
tell yourself everything's gonna be fine, every day's a sunny day. Well, okay,
that's how people go broke, That's how families go broke.
(17:09):
That's why now the middle class is under under such pressure.
Right now, this is my opinion, right why is everything
so terrible, awful horrible? Well, not everything is, but yeah,
don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
That's kind of my attitude, is this whole thing. It's like, oh,
(17:32):
you didn't need to do that, Well, you didn't know that.
I didn't need to do that until it didn't happen.
But if it had happened, I mean most of seriously,
most of the stuff that we do, it's not gonna
happen to everybody, and certainly not everything always happens to everybody.
But if it does happen to you, I'm either making
excuses or I'm delivering results. In the now here, I'm
(17:55):
going to cry for myself a little bit a little
sympathy here. It's like when when one of the things
that we always do that no one else ever does,
when it pays off, guess what, no one appreciates it.
No one appreciates it. Well, of course, well of course
it worked. That's what we paid you for it. And
(18:17):
you know I get that that is what you paid
me for That's why you came here.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Right, because we don't me and me and me and
it didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
It's like, no, it works out. It works out because
we put a lot of effort into making it work out.
But the flip side of that is the flip side
of that is we do a lot of things that
are you know that to my in my experience, other
people aren't doing. We're worried about stuff other people aren't
worried about, and an awful lot of what we do
is not common. Now it's not the way it's done,
(18:47):
the quote unquote way it's done right. So it does
get frustrating. You know, it's like people don't get what
we're doing. And oh, you know, it's like funding putting
your assets in the trust right, who the hell does that?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
It's a pain any ass you won't like it.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
You know, I've got people, Oh, my friend's attorney must
be much better than you. They only they only have
to go there one time. They signed the documents and
they were done. And now you'll keep calling us with
the insurance companies and the financial advisor and all the
other it's so much of a hassle and we have
to keep coming back to you know, get all this
stuff in the trust and I'm like, that's what you're
(19:29):
paying me for, right, to make sure the dime. You know,
the thing works right, But in order to make it work,
you've got to go through this process. And would you know,
would it be easier, simpler, quicker, blah blah blah. I
could say that, but it isn't true. And and and
the thing is, it's not. Sometimes it is true. Sometimes
(19:51):
it does work out super but you don't have any
reason for thinking that. You know, you're just kind of hoping,
and that is no basis for planning in my mind opinion.
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
David's got the how too you're looking for Just call
seven seven twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Wellcome back to the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney. This is one
of my favorite lead in solo.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So oh, come on, here you go. You gotta love this,
don't you.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I just you know, we should just do a radio
show where it's just a music. Thank you, Bob Seger.
You're listening to the David Carrier show.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I'm just sitting there. I'm not strutting or nothing.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Anyway, Welcome back the radio show where the bumper music
is almost always better than the radio show itself.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Easy to observe, hard to admit, but truth is the truth.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
There you are, Hey, let's get to another Oh six one, six, seven,
seven four, twenty four, twenty four. If you'd like to
get your question, comment or concern on the air. Yeah,
we're just talking about trusts. And you know what if
you set up a trust for somebody else, for your
spouse or what have you. Okay, so it is not
at all unusual. Let's get into that dive a little deeper.
(21:41):
It's not at all unusual for people to get married
at more of an advanced age, shall we say, than
they used to. And it is not at all unusual
for people getting married to have a primary residence. Sometimes
both have primary residences. Incidentally, you can only have one
primary residence at a time. And if you claim too
in different states and hope they don't catch you, well,
(22:03):
you may get away with it for a while. But
as some people are finding out, the wheels of justice
grind slow, but they grind exceeding fine. And you may
get caught anyway, So don't climb two primary residents different places.
Spouses can have different primary Your spouse can have one
primary residence, you can have another one. But there's other
requirements there too, I mean, And anyway, don't commit fraud.
(22:25):
It's bad, it's stupid, it's it's evil, and you'll burn.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
In health for it anyway.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So not at all unusual, as I say, Sometimes we'll
sell one house, pay off the other house. All kinds
of permutations of very a theme. But let's say that
there is now one house that really belonged to one spouse, right,
and or the.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Or it belongs to both.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Spouses, right, And when you die, you want your spouse
to continue in the house. That's cool, right, But what
you don't want to do is what everybody does, which
is to either dd it over to the other spouse
and now you disinherited your kids that idea, or you
give your spouse a life estate in that house. Big mistake,
(23:08):
terrible idea, but people do it all the time. And
the idea what the life estate is? Will you get
to live in that as long as you're alive, you
get to live here, But when you die then it
goes on to the next and you say, well, what's
the matter with that? And I said, well, there's a
lot of things that can happen between one spouse dying
and the other spouse dying. Okay, yeah, you want to
(23:30):
provide a residence for your spouse.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
I get it. That's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
But who's going to pay the property taxes? And what
if you don't actually use the house?
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Right? Do we sell it at that point? What happens?
Who gets it? What if you go into a nursing home? Right?
What if you're going to senior housing? What if? What if?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
There's all these what ifs which nobody wants to address.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
This is what I was just talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Right, you got to plan for this stuff, and if
everything goes smooth, when I guess everything goes smooth, but
what if it doesn't?
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Did you plan ahead for this? Did you make sure
that you knew what was going on? So here's the
email that made me think about this. If a revocable trust,
revocable trust with not revocable anymore because a person died, right,
does not mention? If a revocable trust does not mention,
who is responsible for real estate tax? Payment the annual
property taxes. The living trust tenants have to pay it.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Well, if it.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Doesn't mention it, why didn't mention it? Okay, thirteen years
we as life tenants paid property taxes. Well, that would
be appropriate. Due to medical and financial problems, we stopped
paying three years ago.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Whoopsies.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Now the beneficiary, the remainder beneficiary, the person gets the
house at the.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
End of the day.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
An incident, lane. Just because you're a life tenant doesn't
mean you can abuse the property. It's called waste. You
can't commit waste on the property, and the life tenants
are presumed to pay all the expenses and maintain the property.
You don't have to put a swimming pool in, you
don't have to do major repairs what I mean capital
type improvements, but you have to maintain it. You cannot
(25:04):
commit waste. Typically right now, the remainder beneficiary is also
the trustee and wants us out so she can sell
the property. Did we break the trust? You probably did?
It sounds like it. Sounds like it. You assume the
responsibility for thirteen years, right, thirteen years you paid, you
paid the property taxes, which would suggest that you were
(25:27):
generally speaking you're presumed, you know, whoever the tenant is
presumed to pay the the property taxes. But why isn't
it spelled out? You see, So whenever we do a
residence trust like this, just saying, what are the other
things that can happen? Well, what if you don't maintain
the property, What if you don't pay the taxes?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
What if you.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Rent it out? What if you move somebody else in.
What if you go to a long term care facility,
what if you just don't use it?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
You know all these what ifs.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
So when you make someone life tenant of the property, right,
how are you going to terminate that? They don't have
to pay the taxes if you make them their beneficiary
and their trust, so they do have to pay.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
But what if they're not.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
What if they're not What if you just gave them
a life estate, they don't have to pay the taxes?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Who says? Who says?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Where does it say? That doesn't say that? So what's
going to happen? The government can take the can take
the property because the property.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Taxes weren't paid.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So now the remainder beneficiary has to step up and
protect their interest in the property. Okay, that's that's kind
of how that works. Now, what if you put in
all these what ifs, Well, then if they don't maintain
the property, if they shack up with somebody, if if
they need long term care or whatever, then the residence privilege,
(26:47):
the privilege of living in the residence terminates, and now
the house gets sold and the property goes on to
the remainder beneficiaries. However you decide to design that. Okay,
these are things that have up and not every time.
Does it ever work that someone's life?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yes? Does it occasionally work? Yeah? Occasionally works? Right? Does
it usually work? I don't. I wouldn't say it usually works,
but maybe it does. Maybe.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
You know, you get a simple majority of time. But
you didn't plan for anything. See, this is the frustrating part.
It's like, it's like you got away with it. Is
that really how you want to do this? Yeah, you
got away with it. Well, good for you, Good for you.
You got away with that. Wrong, Let's see, let's get
let's get another one. Can three siblings dissolve the irrevocable
(27:39):
trust after his death?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
If we all agree, you're gonna have to go to
court to do that. Generally speaking, you're gonna have to
join all the beneficiaries. But courts are usually kind of sympathetic,
you know, frankly, Uh, they're kind of sympathetic to dissolving
trust right to what we call decanting, uh, decanting the
true cost. If all the beneficiaries and potential beneficiaries agree,
(28:06):
you do have to go through court to do that,
and you're going to have to get all the potential
beneficiaries together. Let's see, I need to know if as
success or trustee I'm allowed to obtain a loan against
the trust to purchase home from the trust? What grandmother
created a trust place home in the trust after grandfather
(28:31):
died house originally living children. My mother had to obtain
a hard money loan to buy out the two of
the six. The rest signed over the rights the house
could stay in the family. I live in the home
and I pay the loan. Blah blah. Mother is trustee,
I'm successor trustee. All other beneficiaries would only benefit or
my removal my mother no longer hard money loan do
(28:52):
in full. I have a hard time trying to buy
my own inheritance. But's knowing I have to pay increased
property taxes as a straight per can I have successor
trustee do a refinance with cash out totally and amended
trust to my trust as trustee.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
If you're the beneficiary and it kind of sounds like that,
what you don't want to do, what this guy doesn't
want to do is have to borrow the money to
pay the entire amount. Let's say it's a half a
million dollar property and he's a twenty percent owner, right,
he doesn't want to have to borrow half a million. Well,
that's usually fine. I mean, trustee doesn't usually care because
(29:31):
once the other beneficiary is the pecuniary beneficiaries, the people
are going to get money get paid off.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
So that's how that would That's how it would go.
In terms of uncapping, it looks like they're worried about
uncapping the property taxes your relative of the first degree
based on the thing. So there wouldn't be any uncapping.
Back in the day, there would have been.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
But not anymore. Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
So when you're dealing with houses that stay in trust residences,
these are just some of the permutations that can come up.
This is why you have to plan ahead for this
stuff so when it does rear its uglyhead. Right, you've
dealt with it, You've already thought about it. You've got
some tools to deal with it. That's that's my point.
This is a good example of that. You've been listening
to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's
(30:18):
personal attorney, inviting you to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com.
Talk to our AI assistant. There. Not legal advice, but
but really pretty interesting information, you might say. Also a
very nice way to navigate the website without clicking on everything.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
David's working and working and taking your calls. Now. This
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Welcome back to the David Carriers Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, inviting you to one of our
Three Secrets workshops. Go to the website, sign up for
one of the Three Secrets or hang out on there.
You know you should give us a call six one
six three six one eighty four hundred. That's six one
six three six one eighty four hundred if you'd like
(31:04):
to come to a life plan workshop or one.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Of our Three Secrets workshops.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
These are the workshops we're doing in up and Muskegan,
down in Portage Over in Holland, and of course at
the at the Home Office in Grand Rapids, Michigan. That's
where we're doing the workshops. So and we're doing them
all the time. So uh, when the when the when
the you know, when the itch strikes, you can scratch
(31:30):
it right away anyway.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
The really that means the purpose of.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
The Three Secrets is that you know, people are like, oh,
you know, things are terrible, and it's like things are
worse than you imagine. You know, it's not that things
aren't as bad as you know, things aren't as bad
as we shame, they're worse. Anyway, find out at the
Three Secrets workshop, the stuff that nobody else is telling you.
It's not like I don't make hints on the on
the show. I do, but come to the Three Secrets,
(31:56):
you know it'd be worth it, be worthwhile. One of
the things we're talking about today is what happens when
you die and you're trying to leave something somebody else.
So I got another one of those someone someone who
wants to leave me money when they die, when they
pass away, I am married. Their intention is that it
(32:16):
goes only to me, not to my wife. Someone wants
to leave me money when they pass away.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I am married.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Their intention is that the money they leave go only
to me and not be vulnerable if I get divorced.
Can a trust be set up to do that? Or
another vehicle? Now here's the thing. This is a universal problem.
It's not a one and done. It's not an unusual thing.
So whenever we do planning, and I'm trying to think
(32:44):
of an exception, whether we do a will or you know,
when we do a wills occasionally, whether it's a will
or a trust or what have you, we never never's
a big word, so hardly ever, Like I can't remember
time we just made an outright distribution to the beneficiary, right.
(33:06):
I think it's in what people do with the ladybird deeds.
You've heard me complain about this, the ladybird deeds and
beneficiary designations and all the rest of this. It's it's
like arrogant presumption, ignorant, arrogant, I don't know, whatever you.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Want to say.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
The notion is that either you don't care whether or
not you're beneficiary actually gets what you're leaving to them.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Do you not care?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Does it matter to you? Well, look and I've been
making this offer for thirty five years. If you really
don't care what happens to your stuff when you're dead,
leave it to me. Just give it to me. I
could use it, I promise you I would. I would
enjoy it. So if you're looking for a beneficiary and
you don't have one, David H.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Carrier, just give it to me.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
But you know what, knowing ever taken me up on that.
You know, they tell Oh, I don't really care if
my kids get or no, no, I don't want to. Okay, fine,
give it to me. If you really don't care. Oh
well wait a second, Oh well wait a second, Yeah
I care a little bit. Okay, So if you do
care a little bit that your beneficiaries get your money
(34:16):
instead of giving it to me, it breaks my heart
every time it happens. Then why not make sure that
the kid actually gets the money, right? Why don't you
make sure that it's more than luck, that it's more
than happenstance, that it's more than gee, I kind of
hope this happens, but I didn't do anything to make
sure it would happen. Right, Why don't you do a
(34:39):
little bit of that? And that's what that's what we do.
You know, routinely, what we do is we never distribute outright,
We never just say for And then this is whenever
I see this in documents, and it's in all of them,
it's like, forthright, free from trust immediately shall well you
(35:00):
know all these words that mean, dump the money on
the kid as quickly as you possibly can, Okay, because
why because why not? Because that's what that's what I want.
I want you to just dump the money and the kid. Yeah,
the kids in bankruptcy, kids getting divorced. And then you
hear people say, oh, inheritances don't count in divorce. I
know the losses inheritances don't count in divorce. You think
(35:22):
they don't count, They count, especially you commingle the assets.
They count in the negotiation, they count, right, But if
you have it separated out in a trust just for
the beneficiary, right, which is what we do, it's close
to one hundred percent of the time, and I think
it is. I can remember a couple of things where
people fought me on it, but I fought back. And
(35:43):
because there's ways to set these up so that the
kid can get the money. In sixty percent of the time.
They do just want the money, So fine, make an
outright distribution, you can do that. But why wouldn't you
put it in trust so there's asset protection right for
the beneficiary. I mean, we have I don't know how many,
probably dozens of kids beneficiaries in prison. All right, we
(36:07):
got a couple on level five, you know, the you know,
life without possibility of parole. It doesn't matter. The money
is protected for them. They get to choose their toothpaste
or whatever it is you get to determine on level five.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
I don't know what it is, but.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
It's not much, but you still get that, you know,
because mom wanted to leave it for sunny boy, not
for Department of Corrections, not to pay his his room
and boarded in the prison. Okay, but it also works
in divorce, It also works in bankruptcy, creditor situations, taxes,
all the rest of it. Why aren't you protecting the
(36:41):
inheritance for your kids? Well, because nobody wants to think
about that. Nobody will, you know, we're on denial. Nobody
wants to think about, Oh, bad things might happen. Well, okay,
then why not protect it right? Well, because nobody wants
to think about it. So we just assumed that nothing
better happened, and now the money doesn't go where your
(37:03):
life savings don't go where you want them to go,
because we didn't.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
You know, that wasn't part of it.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
So in a situation like this, it's like this is
kind of routine for us, right, I mean, this is
just yeah, we don't have to do anything special because
we already did it. Now, if you want to take it,
the next step to say that the beneficiary cannot cannot
give the money to the spouse, right, cannot. There's ways
to do that also, you know you can. You can
(37:30):
layer on more protection, right, whether it's a residence trust
where you control who the ultimate beneficiaries are and you
determine how much money gets spent in the meantime, there's
always there's all things you can do. But fundamentally, fundamentally,
what you want to do is make sure that you're
paying right, or that you're holding and disposing of the
(37:51):
inheritance for the benefit of the people you want to benefit,
not their creditors, right, not their creditors and predators, right,
not the other people. Let's hold on to the inheritance
for the people you wanted to inherit it, and so
these kind of you know, like this is like, ooh,
(38:11):
how would I ever do that? Well, the answer is
every single day. It's the only way we do it
is so it's protected for the beneficiary. But in addition
to complete protection, we also have complete control on the
behalf of the beneficiary. Those two have to go together.
You've been listening to the David Carriers Show. I'm David
Carrier inviting you to a three Secrets workshop. Just go
(38:34):
to the website David Carrier Law dot com. That's David
Carrier Law all one word dot com and sign up.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I'll see you there.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. A lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference. So when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show, or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(39:20):
visit Davidcarrier Law dot com.
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