Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello America. This is Chanelle Barnes with the Dear America Show,
where we are interviewing real people, real voices and real stories.
And with that, I am so so excited to have
Louis emmal Car here. Louis, We're really happy to have
you here.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm appreciative of being here too. I'm happy to be
here with.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Lewis is a veteran. He identifies as a Haitian American.
He is a father, he has a husband, and we're
going to just dig into the story. Louis, thank you
for your service for sharing your story with us today.
Could you start with just telling us a little bit
about your background and what motivated you to join the military.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Okay, Yes, my name is Lewis Imacar and I'm from
Hang City of Florida.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Shout out to Hang City, you know it, Florida.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You know, very proud of that little it's a little
farm intown. I'm very proud of of haining City. It
molded me to be the person I am. But also
what's amazing about Haink City was is is that you
(01:16):
know that's where my family decided they want to like
to lay that like later foundation of who I am today.
You know, small little Haitians came together and built up
a nice little community that we a lot of us
came from.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
And based on that background, that upbringing, what prompted you
to join the military?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Man?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I felt like, if my dad got on a boat
to come here and risk his life, why not pay
it back by doing something other than being out in
the streets. I could just honestly make him proud, like
find a way to make him proud.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Absolutely. You were deployed to the war, is that right?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah? Afghanistan twice?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Afghanistan? Absolutely? Can you describe what that experience was like
for you? As much as you feel comfortable.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
What may seem like a necessity here is a luxury
in other places. Man, it's just like simple as like
having a wristwatch is a luxury, or running water is
a luxury, or like being having shoes is It's just
(02:36):
it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Is there a moment when you were deployed and you
deployed twice? Yeah, is there a moment that you would
say this moment broke my heart? And if so, could
you describe.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
That one that kind of like really got to me
was like it was a three year old boy with
an axe stuck in the middle of his head like
cracked open and like he was three, and it was
just crazy like trying to save his life or.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
You were to save his life.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Now the medics that we were, they came to our
little base because I did, like my second deployment was
like village stability operations, so like we tried to help
build like the villages up and stuff like that. So
on Sundays we ran like a medical like hospital type thing.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
He came in there.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
But another time was when getting shot at was like okay,
like it's not like it's not like the movies.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
They trying to survive too.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So you just questioned yourself sometimes are you are you
fit enough to.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Play the role of God?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Is it justified? Or yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
You think about like I don't know about other people,
but I think about the the opposite spectrum of like
if they were trying to survive, like would they be
able to tell the stories that like.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I'm here to tell now, So I don't know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
The point to the war is an incredibly intense experience,
and I can tell that just by even us having
this conversation. Now, when you return home, were there any
lingering effects of the war? And I asked that because
I was speaking with a veteran and she was saying
that the war is not the war is not happening
(04:52):
while you're away from war. The war is happening as
soon as you get back home. Is that true?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
It may sound crazy, but when you're overseas well, at
least for me, like after like the second month, it
became like the norm for it to be kind of
chaotic and to come home and while you're at war,
your time stops because you're doing something that's out of
(05:20):
the normal, right out of your your gone.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You're doing like you away.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Everybody else's lives continue, and then you'll come back thinking
that it was the way it was before you got there,
and it's completely like their life went on.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
They had to get accustomed to you not.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Being around, or maybe brace themselves on, like hey, they
may get that letter like hey in a flag or
something like that. So when I came home, it was
just like trying to get adjusted to everybody else and
having them like kind of see that my village, like
my villigence is heightened a little bit more. I pay
(06:07):
attention to smaller details. So it just made me more like,
I don't know, Like it was stressful trying to play
tug of war with Hey, I understand your life moved
on and trying to catch up, but hey, like I
need some help, so maybe slow down.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Absolutely, absolutely, I want to switch gears a little bit.
I mentioned at the top of the show. You identify
as a Haitian American, as a Haitian immigrant and veteran.
How do you respond to all of the new anti
Haitian rhetoric we're hearing from some politicians today.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Man, it breaks my heart, man, because if people was
like to do their research on like how much Haiti
has really like contributed to, like just the formation of America,
it wouldn't be that much taught because people don't know.
The Louisiana purchase only happened because France was at war
(07:16):
with Haiti, well the slaves, and they needed money.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
How were they gonna get that money?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Let's sell off this piece of land because we're trying
to Haiti as art. It was the pearl of the Intellies,
you know what I'm saying. So that mean it was
the most profitable island in the world, well piece of
land in the world, so they were trying to protect
that and keep.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
That at all cost.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
So they had to bail ship or jump ship and
sell everything off, you know what I'm saying. And then
on top of that, like the warrant the Revolutionary War,
they sent over some soldiers to fight.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Then some of the war.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Materials or like musket and gunpowder was made in Haiti
for the famous Battle of Saratoga. So it's like if
there was like the dude their research, they'll understand, like, like,
y'all shouldn't be saying this is crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Like I love the history lesson, So I gotta let
all know to go back in history, we need to
examine how we got to where we are. Speaking of that,
what does it mean for you to be a Haitian
man in America? What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Man?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
It's tough because from the outside looking in, you'll see
it's just one big black culture, right, But growing up,
a lot of people didn't understand the Haitian culture because
it was kind of brand new to a lot of people.
So whatever they heard is what they believed. And it
(08:54):
was tough because you had to you had to. I
grew up like going to school and stead of wearing jeans,
wearing church clothes, you know, like, uh, learning how to
speak English because I was spoke. I spoke Creole like
that was my first language. So it's kind of tough
with that. And then like sometimes you feel like you
(09:19):
just gotta go overboard and try to be the best
because you're in competition and I don't want to say
it like in a bad way, but in competition with
not only other folks, but people of.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Your own kind as well.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Like, man, I got to go against this American because
if I don't, then they're gonna say, oh, Haitians, Yeah,
you guys are lazy and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
So so it's like, you know, so, I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
It sounds like you have such a rich culture. You
came to your family was in America already, you went
and decided to serve your country, and now as a
Haitian American you're being dehumanized and vilified. Yeah, how do
you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Man?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
It hurts, like it really do hurt, because it's like, man,
a lot of people who's saying that stuff about Haitians
been around Haitians.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And they know that, Like you know, it ain't that
ain't the truth?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
And it's like you now, you don't put a target
on some people just trying to come and live the
American You feel me, So this is disheartening now, honestly,
it just hurts.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Absolutely, Louis. How does it feel to be accused of
poisoning the blood of America, especially given the history of
Haitians that you just mentioned being unfairly targeted and stigmatized.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
It's pure ignorance, man, It's just a man.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
It's just they ain't got nothing to do, they don't
know nothing. It's just like those those people saying that
kind of stuff. If they would just have paid attention
to a little bit of history than you know what
I'm saying, maybe it would change. But like being accused
of like stealing pest, eat cats and dogs. I've been
(11:15):
hasting my whole life and I ain't never ate no cat,
no dog. Matter of fact, every single one of my
friends who ate, or anybody got introduced to hasting food
probably say it's one of the best tasting foods they
ever had in their life.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You know what I'm saying. You know, I'm just saying.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
So it's like to be to say that we're coming
in and we're like lowering, like lauring like the economy
or standards or like infesting the Like it's like that
mindset is really was infesting the country. Like that's a cancer,
(11:53):
you know what I'm saying, Like what you're afraid of
some people coming in doing a little bit of hard
work and they're probably not even getting paid what they
should be getting paid, you know, because Man, I done
been in Trust me, I've been in that kind of household,
so I know, Man, it just makes me. Man, it
pisses me, makes me mad. Yeah, Like man, all right,
(12:17):
yeah yeah, it makes me mad.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It makes me pretty man.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
How can we as a society push back against this
kind of dehumanizing rhetoric and support our Haitian neighbors?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Man?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Just unity, Like that's that's part of that's the Haitian model.
Like unity is powerful. So like, you know, how do
we unify? What does that look like? So just I
don't even know it's it's I don't even know. It's
just like you just come together. Like because at the
(12:51):
end of the day, from twenty feet away, if we're
standing next to each other, I'm Haitian, You're American?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Are they going to tell us apart, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
So if we're fingers that are like open, it's easy
to break. But if we come together and we close
it as a fist. Man, a fist can knock somebody out,
you know, So just unify, like help understand the culture.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
A little bit. If people don't know or anything.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Just I mean a quick five minute google with Ai
it probably could tell you the history of the Haitian
culture and American culture, or Haitian and American relationships, and
just like try to understand, right more than anything, try
to understand.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Oh, just go off of what you hear.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Can you talk about the joy and pride of being
a black father? What unique cultural traditions and values are
you passing down to your children?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Man, it's amazing, man, because like I felt like having
a son is a second chance at life. And then
like having like girls made me realize that I need
to learn how to like love because it's crazy, man,
(14:16):
because you gotta be gentle with the girls.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And then you gotta try to not.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Be too hard on the boy, but understand that he
I don't want him to make the mistakes that I did.
And then I realized man, I'm starting to sound like
my parents.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
It's like it's crazy that goes full.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
It's like man like, and I'm like, whoa, I just.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
You just heard.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, And growing up it's like, man, I couldn't stand them,
And then now it's like, I truly do have an
appreciation for him, and my mom too, trying to there
me in the right direction. It's just but you know,
I'm a boy, you gotta be whatever. But it's a
(15:07):
it's a wonderful feeling. Man. I get a second chance
at life, you know, and I get to be a
big kid all over again.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
You know. Yeah, So it's it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And how, in your opinion, how can society support black
fathers more?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Sometimes just acknowledgement, you know, I don't know, because I
just me, I can never understand. I don't know because like,
don't bash her sometimes sometimes a lot of times it's
a bigger picture that we're trying to paint, and people
(15:44):
get focused in on the details instead of the bigger picture.
That's why everything like if you everything you do, you
go over it, you check it right. So it's the
same thing a lot growing up you weren't kind of
talk these things. So learning on the fly and trying
(16:05):
to beat the stickment of being not present.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
There are a few people now who are saying black
men won't vote, black men don't vote. What are your
thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I don't know about not voting, but I could kind
of understand because it's like, ain't nothing changed for us,
no matter what's going on? This is that, But it's
like it's the same thing, different day. So it's like,
ain't nothing finna change. So why even try to put
(16:39):
some toys because like, oh, we're gonna help with this,
get the vote. You get to vote last time and
nothing changed. Matter of fact, it's the same thing. So
why ain't waste time? I got other things to do
and waste time like that. But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
It's just me, And what about for you? How important
is the vote for you?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I mean it's it's it's very important because I've had
friends who passed for this that very reason. It may
not have been like directly to vote, but they passed
like trying to uphold or keep the American way of life.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So I vote, and yeah, I vote, Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
All right? And you you said something, you said, we're
trying to live the American dream. Yes, what is that
dream to you? I know that's a loaded question.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Because so my concept of American dream may be I
don't know, it may be a little off the wall,
but like it's not the whole house with the picket
fence and all the other stuff. No, that's that's not
my American dream. My American dream is like the American
dream for me is like just dis unity, if that's
(18:05):
sound crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
It is like people just.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Be grown about their opinions and it doesn't affect anybody,
you know, because trying to get the white picking fence
and I feel like that's a rat race, Like that's
not the most important thing, because a community like is
what raises like a family. So American dream to me
(18:35):
is like having good like a strong community, don't matter
about the house.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So, Louis, you were in Florida, you came to New
Jersey with the New Jersey You at one point you
lived in Essex County, Yes, and now you've moved down
to South Jersey. Yes, And I think you've had some
different experiences since you been in South Jersey as a
(19:04):
black man. Can you share more about that?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, So I'm just going to me South Jersey is
just I love it, you know. But to me it
feels like it ain't no different than being in Georgia
or like or like some remote areas in Florida. It's like,
(19:31):
I mean, down the road for me, about two minutes,
you got people flying the Confederate flag and stuff like that,
and it's like, okay, Like you know, some people will
tell you that the Mason Dixon Line runs through South Jersey.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So that's how it's been. It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I remember one time I was driving, just minding my business.
I was doing the speed limit. The police got behind
me and they pulled me over. And as soon as
you pulled me over, he came to the window. He
was like, I need you to step out the vehicle.
As soon as I stepped out the vehicle, he quit resistant.
(20:10):
And I'm like, I'm quit resistant and you got my.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Arm and then told you to quit resist.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, put me in handcuffs.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I have no idea as I was, I mean the
writings on the wall when it come to that, so
you know, quit resistant.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Shot.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Then he put me in handcuffs and then threw me
in the back of the car, saying I have a
warmth from my arrest, and I'm like, I got a
warmant from my arrest, Like this is this? This is
something new to me because I checked like every week,
you know what. I'm like, yeah, I teck, I take
every week, man, see if my licensed suspended something, you know,
just I just always because I'm paring up for the
(20:51):
police to get behind me. So I was shocked. And
then like he ran, he ran my information and stuff.
Come to find out, was clean. As soon as he
he was like yeah, he's writing me a ticket. He
want to play some rap music and stuff like that's
what I meant to like when I don't want to
listen to that, get me out of the car. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
And then he got me out of the car, and I yeah,
it came full.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Circle though, absolutely in that full circle, because I can
imagine that experience was jarring to you. You have children, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you have three of them. Okay, how do you talk
to your children about the realities of racism and biased
in our society?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Maybe instilled what was instilled in me by like with
my son, I tell them all the time, no matter what,
you got two strikes one because you're a black male
and two you stand when you peek. Excuse my friend,
but you know what I'm saying. You're black and you
stand when you peece, so you got two strikes already.
So you have to walk like a fine line because
(22:00):
what may seem normal to you may not seem normal
to everybody else. So I just I just try to
tell him, like, if you're going to do something over exceed,
do better. Because I don't know, I'm from the South.
A lot of stigmas still stick. I don't stick with me,
but it's like shape my mindset to you know, a
(22:23):
lot of different things.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
So I just try to, like with that black.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I was in the park the other day with my
son and he was playing with a few of the
other kids and I heard someone scream out the nword,
oh yeah, and I immediately turned around. I went over
and I was like, who said that? And there was
a black boy who was there and he said, well,
(22:50):
someone else said it, but it's okay for me to
say it because I'm black. And I said, well, you know,
what does that mean to you? He said, that's how
I describe myself. I said, why are you describing yourself
that way? And he said, well, look at my skin,
and it just made me think about what kinds of
conversations we need to have with our children in order
(23:12):
to give them a new level of confidence and resilience
in America. How do you have that conversation with your children?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, so it's crazy you mentioned a part because I man,
after being at the park, like with my kids and
stuff like that, That's why you see like true colors
of like parenting and what they try to tell the kids,
because like like the first time we went to a
little park around where we stay, where I live and
(23:44):
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
We he was my sons playing, you know, just doing
this thing.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
And then every time you try to go around a
group of kids, man, they just kept running away. And
I was like, I'm like, man, what's going on? And
he was like, none of them want to play with me, so,
you know, kind I was like, man like, all right,
so let me just break it down. Okay, look man, like, Okay,
if you look on the news, a lot of times,
they don't have to be grown before they become a
(24:14):
hashtag or you're wearing them on the shirt type stuff
and they're a social justice movement type thing. I'm like, man,
some of them was like twelve years old, six years
from now. That could be you just chilling outside, you
think something's normal, and all of a sudden, you know,
I'm on the news talking about he was a good kid,
(24:34):
and so you know I yeah, so I just I
try to break it down to him where he can understand.
But then it's I kind of want him to see
and experience it so he can he can get.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Like the full experience of America.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah, Like, I can't just hey, do this because I'm
telling you this, Because I mean, we was all told
to do something and we still went out and ventured
on our own. So I don't let them get too
deep into it. But I try to explain, like, hey,
this is why. And plus we watch watch some of
that stuff on on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Sure. Yeah, despite the challenges you face, the hateful rhetoric
that we've talked about aimed at at your community, you
remain here contributing to the country. What message of resilience
do you want to share with all of the Americans
today who are tuning in.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
As I got older, I realized that my dad and
uncles like took a journey to get here on the boat.
It could have had lost their lives man, I went
a little bit into the ocean on the boat and
I was terrified. I couldn't see nothing, and it was
(25:52):
on it like day and night. Man, it's ridiculous. So
it's crazy. So like that, I just I guess it's
like as a payback to what they endure, come in
here not knowing no the language and learning the language,
and so it's just like I guess it's like a
(26:12):
silent head nod to like, I appreciate you for doing
this for me being here.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
And how can Americans everywhere honor the service of veterans
your work in order to make this more just and
inclusive America? What can we do?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Man? Just listen.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's simple as just sometimes an ear, just leanding the
ear to a veteran excuse me and take the load off,
because I done had a few of my a few
of my comrades who felt like the load was too
too heavy for them to carry in and I funnily
(26:56):
they had like an ear maybe that the outcome could have.
So it's just like then in the ear, you know
you got two of them, so might as well use them, right,
But uh.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
That's true, will Lewis, you definitely have had both of
my ears for this segment. I thank you so much
for your service. I think you can be here. D Yes,
This is Dear America with Chanel Barnes, with real people,
real voices, and real stories. Tune in next time by.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
This has been a Project Ready production.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
To learn more and effect change, log onto Project readynjy
dot org or listen anytime on all major podcast carriers
Hello America. This is Chanelle Barnes with the Dear America Show,
where we are interviewing real people, real voices and real stories.
And with that, I am so so excited to have
Louis emmal Car here. Louis, We're really happy to have
you here.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm appreciative of being here too. I'm happy to be
here with.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Lewis is a veteran. He identifies as a Haitian American.
He is a father, he has a husband, and we're
going to just dig into the story. Louis, thank you
for your service for sharing your story with us today.
Could you start with just telling us a little bit
about your background and what motivated you to join the military.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Okay, Yes, my name is Lewis Imacar and I'm from
Hang City of Florida.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Shout out to Hang City, you know it, Florida.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You know, very proud of that little it's a little
farm intown. I'm very proud of of haining City. It
molded me to be the person I am. But also
what's amazing about Haink City was is is that you
(01:16):
know that's where my family decided they want to like
to lay that like later foundation of who I am today.
You know, small little Haitians came together and built up
a nice little community that we a lot of us
came from.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
And based on that background, that upbringing, what prompted you
to join the military?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Man?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I felt like, if my dad got on a boat
to come here and risk his life, why not pay
it back by doing something other than being out in
the streets. I could just honestly make him proud, like
find a way to make him proud.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Absolutely. You were deployed to the war, is that right?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah? Afghanistan twice?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Afghanistan? Absolutely? Can you describe what that experience was like
for you? As much as you feel comfortable.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
What may seem like a necessity here is a luxury
in other places. Man, it's just like simple as like
having a wristwatch is a luxury, or running water is
a luxury, or like being having shoes is It's just
(02:36):
it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Is there a moment when you were deployed and you
deployed twice? Yeah, is there a moment that you would
say this moment broke my heart? And if so, could
you describe.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
That one that kind of like really got to me
was like it was a three year old boy with
an axe stuck in the middle of his head like
cracked open and like he was three, and it was
just crazy like trying to save his life or.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
You were to save his life.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Now the medics that we were, they came to our
little base because I did, like my second deployment was
like village stability operations, so like we tried to help
build like the villages up and stuff like that. So
on Sundays we ran like a medical like hospital type thing.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
He came in there.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
But another time was when getting shot at was like okay,
like it's not like it's not like the movies.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
They trying to survive too.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So you just questioned yourself sometimes are you are you
fit enough to.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Play the role of God?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Is it justified? Or yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
You think about like I don't know about other people,
but I think about the the opposite spectrum of like
if they were trying to survive, like would they be
able to tell the stories that like.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I'm here to tell now, So I don't know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
The point to the war is an incredibly intense experience,
and I can tell that just by even us having
this conversation. Now, when you return home, were there any
lingering effects of the war? And I asked that because
I was speaking with a veteran and she was saying
that the war is not the war is not happening
(04:52):
while you're away from war. The war is happening as
soon as you get back home. Is that true?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
It may sound crazy, but when you're overseas well, at
least for me, like after like the second month, it
became like the norm for it to be kind of
chaotic and to come home and while you're at war,
your time stops because you're doing something that's out of
(05:20):
the normal, right out of your your gone.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You're doing like you away.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Everybody else's lives continue, and then you'll come back thinking
that it was the way it was before you got there,
and it's completely like their life went on.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
They had to get accustomed to you not.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Being around, or maybe brace themselves on, like hey, they
may get that letter like hey in a flag or
something like that. So when I came home, it was
just like trying to get adjusted to everybody else and
having them like kind of see that my village, like
my villigence is heightened a little bit more. I pay
(06:07):
attention to smaller details. So it just made me more like,
I don't know, Like it was stressful trying to play
tug of war with Hey, I understand your life moved
on and trying to catch up, but hey, like I
need some help, so maybe slow down.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Absolutely, absolutely, I want to switch gears a little bit.
I mentioned at the top of the show. You identify
as a Haitian American, as a Haitian immigrant and veteran.
How do you respond to all of the new anti
Haitian rhetoric we're hearing from some politicians today.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Man, it breaks my heart, man, because if people was
like to do their research on like how much Haiti
has really like contributed to, like just the formation of America,
it wouldn't be that much taught because people don't know.
The Louisiana purchase only happened because France was at war
(07:16):
with Haiti, well the slaves, and they needed money.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
How were they gonna get that money?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Let's sell off this piece of land because we're trying
to Haiti as art. It was the pearl of the Intellies,
you know what I'm saying. So that mean it was
the most profitable island in the world, well piece of
land in the world, so they were trying to protect
that and keep.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
That at all cost.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
So they had to bail ship or jump ship and
sell everything off, you know what I'm saying. And then
on top of that, like the warrant the Revolutionary War,
they sent over some soldiers to fight.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Then some of the war.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Materials or like musket and gunpowder was made in Haiti
for the famous Battle of Saratoga. So it's like if
there was like the dude their research, they'll understand, like, like,
y'all shouldn't be saying this is crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Like I love the history lesson, So I gotta let
all know to go back in history, we need to
examine how we got to where we are. Speaking of that,
what does it mean for you to be a Haitian
man in America? What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Man?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
It's tough because from the outside looking in, you'll see
it's just one big black culture, right, But growing up,
a lot of people didn't understand the Haitian culture because
it was kind of brand new to a lot of people.
So whatever they heard is what they believed. And it
(08:54):
was tough because you had to you had to. I
grew up like going to school and stead of wearing jeans,
wearing church clothes, you know, like, uh, learning how to
speak English because I was spoke. I spoke Creole like
that was my first language. So it's kind of tough
with that. And then like sometimes you feel like you
(09:19):
just gotta go overboard and try to be the best
because you're in competition and I don't want to say
it like in a bad way, but in competition with
not only other folks, but people of.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Your own kind as well.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Like, man, I got to go against this American because
if I don't, then they're gonna say, oh, Haitians, Yeah,
you guys are lazy and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
So so it's like, you know, so, I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
It sounds like you have such a rich culture. You
came to your family was in America already, you went
and decided to serve your country, and now as a
Haitian American you're being dehumanized and vilified. Yeah, how do
you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Man?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
It hurts, like it really do hurt, because it's like, man,
a lot of people who's saying that stuff about Haitians
been around Haitians.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And they know that, Like you know, it ain't that
ain't the truth?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
And it's like you now, you don't put a target
on some people just trying to come and live the
American You feel me, So this is disheartening now, honestly,
it just hurts.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Absolutely, Louis. How does it feel to be accused of
poisoning the blood of America, especially given the history of
Haitians that you just mentioned being unfairly targeted and stigmatized.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
It's pure ignorance, man, It's just a man.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
It's just they ain't got nothing to do, they don't
know nothing. It's just like those those people saying that
kind of stuff. If they would just have paid attention
to a little bit of history than you know what
I'm saying, maybe it would change. But like being accused
of like stealing pest, eat cats and dogs. I've been
(11:15):
hasting my whole life and I ain't never ate no cat,
no dog. Matter of fact, every single one of my
friends who ate, or anybody got introduced to hasting food
probably say it's one of the best tasting foods they
ever had in their life.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You know what I'm saying. You know, I'm just saying.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
So it's like to be to say that we're coming
in and we're like lowering, like lauring like the economy
or standards or like infesting the Like it's like that
mindset is really was infesting the country. Like that's a cancer,
(11:53):
you know what I'm saying, Like what you're afraid of
some people coming in doing a little bit of hard
work and they're probably not even getting paid what they
should be getting paid, you know, because Man, I done
been in Trust me, I've been in that kind of household,
so I know, Man, it just makes me. Man, it
pisses me, makes me mad. Yeah, Like man, all right,
(12:17):
yeah yeah, it makes me mad.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It makes me pretty man.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
How can we as a society push back against this
kind of dehumanizing rhetoric and support our Haitian neighbors?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Man?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Just unity, Like that's that's part of that's the Haitian model.
Like unity is powerful. So like, you know, how do
we unify? What does that look like? So just I
don't even know it's it's I don't even know. It's
just like you just come together. Like because at the
(12:51):
end of the day, from twenty feet away, if we're
standing next to each other, I'm Haitian, You're American?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Are they going to tell us apart, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
So if we're fingers that are like open, it's easy
to break. But if we come together and we close
it as a fist. Man, a fist can knock somebody out,
you know, So just unify, like help understand the culture.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
A little bit. If people don't know or anything.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Just I mean a quick five minute google with Ai
it probably could tell you the history of the Haitian
culture and American culture, or Haitian and American relationships, and
just like try to understand, right more than anything, try
to understand.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Oh, just go off of what you hear.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Can you talk about the joy and pride of being
a black father? What unique cultural traditions and values are
you passing down to your children?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Man, it's amazing, man, because like I felt like having
a son is a second chance at life. And then
like having like girls made me realize that I need
to learn how to like love because it's crazy, man,
(14:16):
because you gotta be gentle with the girls.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And then you gotta try to not.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Be too hard on the boy, but understand that he
I don't want him to make the mistakes that I did.
And then I realized man, I'm starting to sound like
my parents.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
It's like it's crazy that goes full.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
It's like man like, and I'm like, whoa, I just.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
You just heard.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, And growing up it's like, man, I couldn't stand them,
And then now it's like, I truly do have an
appreciation for him, and my mom too, trying to there
me in the right direction. It's just but you know,
I'm a boy, you gotta be whatever. But it's a
(15:07):
it's a wonderful feeling. Man. I get a second chance
at life, you know, and I get to be a
big kid all over again.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
You know. Yeah, So it's it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And how, in your opinion, how can society support black
fathers more?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Sometimes just acknowledgement, you know, I don't know, because I
just me, I can never understand. I don't know because like,
don't bash her sometimes sometimes a lot of times it's
a bigger picture that we're trying to paint, and people
(15:44):
get focused in on the details instead of the bigger picture.
That's why everything like if you everything you do, you
go over it, you check it right. So it's the
same thing a lot growing up you weren't kind of
talk these things. So learning on the fly and trying
(16:05):
to beat the stickment of being not present.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
There are a few people now who are saying black
men won't vote, black men don't vote. What are your
thoughts on that.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I don't know about not voting, but I could kind
of understand because it's like, ain't nothing changed for us,
no matter what's going on? This is that, But it's
like it's the same thing, different day. So it's like,
ain't nothing finna change. So why even try to put
(16:39):
some toys because like, oh, we're gonna help with this,
get the vote. You get to vote last time and
nothing changed. Matter of fact, it's the same thing. So
why ain't waste time? I got other things to do
and waste time like that. But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
It's just me, And what about for you? How important
is the vote for you?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I mean it's it's it's very important because I've had
friends who passed for this that very reason. It may
not have been like directly to vote, but they passed
like trying to uphold or keep the American way of life.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So I vote, and yeah, I vote, Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
All right? And you you said something, you said, we're
trying to live the American dream. Yes, what is that
dream to you? I know that's a loaded question.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Because so my concept of American dream may be I
don't know, it may be a little off the wall,
but like it's not the whole house with the picket
fence and all the other stuff. No, that's that's not
my American dream. My American dream is like the American
dream for me is like just dis unity, if that's
(18:05):
sound crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
It is like people just.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Be grown about their opinions and it doesn't affect anybody,
you know, because trying to get the white picking fence
and I feel like that's a rat race, Like that's
not the most important thing, because a community like is
what raises like a family. So American dream to me
(18:35):
is like having good like a strong community, don't matter
about the house.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So, Louis, you were in Florida, you came to New
Jersey with the New Jersey You at one point you
lived in Essex County, Yes, and now you've moved down
to South Jersey. Yes, And I think you've had some
different experiences since you been in South Jersey as a
(19:04):
black man. Can you share more about that?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, So I'm just going to me South Jersey is
just I love it, you know. But to me it
feels like it ain't no different than being in Georgia
or like or like some remote areas in Florida. It's like,
(19:31):
I mean, down the road for me, about two minutes,
you got people flying the Confederate flag and stuff like that,
and it's like, okay, Like you know, some people will
tell you that the Mason Dixon Line runs through South Jersey.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So that's how it's been. It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I remember one time I was driving, just minding my business.
I was doing the speed limit. The police got behind
me and they pulled me over. And as soon as
you pulled me over, he came to the window. He
was like, I need you to step out the vehicle.
As soon as I stepped out the vehicle, he quit resistant.
(20:10):
And I'm like, I'm quit resistant and you got my.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Arm and then told you to quit resist.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, put me in handcuffs.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I have no idea as I was, I mean the
writings on the wall when it come to that, so
you know, quit resistant.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Shot.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Then he put me in handcuffs and then threw me
in the back of the car, saying I have a
warmth from my arrest, and I'm like, I got a
warmant from my arrest, Like this is this? This is
something new to me because I checked like every week,
you know what. I'm like, yeah, I teck, I take
every week, man, see if my licensed suspended something, you know,
just I just always because I'm paring up for the
(20:51):
police to get behind me. So I was shocked. And
then like he ran, he ran my information and stuff.
Come to find out, was clean. As soon as he
he was like yeah, he's writing me a ticket. He
want to play some rap music and stuff like that's
what I meant to like when I don't want to
listen to that, get me out of the car. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
And then he got me out of the car, and I yeah,
it came full.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Circle though, absolutely in that full circle, because I can
imagine that experience was jarring to you. You have children, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you have three of them. Okay, how do you talk
to your children about the realities of racism and biased
in our society?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Maybe instilled what was instilled in me by like with
my son, I tell them all the time, no matter what,
you got two strikes one because you're a black male
and two you stand when you peek. Excuse my friend,
but you know what I'm saying. You're black and you
stand when you peece, so you got two strikes already.
So you have to walk like a fine line because
(22:00):
what may seem normal to you may not seem normal
to everybody else. So I just I just try to
tell him, like, if you're going to do something over exceed,
do better. Because I don't know, I'm from the South.
A lot of stigmas still stick. I don't stick with me,
but it's like shape my mindset to you know, a
(22:23):
lot of different things.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
So I just try to, like with that black.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I was in the park the other day with my
son and he was playing with a few of the
other kids and I heard someone scream out the nword,
oh yeah, and I immediately turned around. I went over
and I was like, who said that? And there was
a black boy who was there and he said, well,
(22:50):
someone else said it, but it's okay for me to
say it because I'm black. And I said, well, you know,
what does that mean to you? He said, that's how
I describe myself. I said, why are you describing yourself
that way? And he said, well, look at my skin,
and it just made me think about what kinds of
conversations we need to have with our children in order
(23:12):
to give them a new level of confidence and resilience
in America. How do you have that conversation with your children?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, so it's crazy you mentioned a part because I man,
after being at the park, like with my kids and
stuff like that, That's why you see like true colors
of like parenting and what they try to tell the kids,
because like like the first time we went to a
little park around where we stay, where I live and
(23:44):
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
We he was my sons playing, you know, just doing
this thing.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
And then every time you try to go around a
group of kids, man, they just kept running away. And
I was like, I'm like, man, what's going on? And
he was like, none of them want to play with me, so,
you know, kind I was like, man like, all right,
so let me just break it down. Okay, look man, like, Okay,
if you look on the news, a lot of times,
they don't have to be grown before they become a
(24:14):
hashtag or you're wearing them on the shirt type stuff
and they're a social justice movement type thing. I'm like, man,
some of them was like twelve years old, six years
from now. That could be you just chilling outside, you
think something's normal, and all of a sudden, you know,
I'm on the news talking about he was a good kid,
(24:34):
and so you know I yeah, so I just I
try to break it down to him where he can understand.
But then it's I kind of want him to see
and experience it so he can he can get.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Like the full experience of America.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah, Like, I can't just hey, do this because I'm
telling you this, Because I mean, we was all told
to do something and we still went out and ventured
on our own. So I don't let them get too
deep into it. But I try to explain, like, hey,
this is why. And plus we watch watch some of
that stuff on on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Sure. Yeah, despite the challenges you face, the hateful rhetoric
that we've talked about aimed at at your community, you
remain here contributing to the country. What message of resilience
do you want to share with all of the Americans
today who are tuning in.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
As I got older, I realized that my dad and
uncles like took a journey to get here on the boat.
It could have had lost their lives man, I went
a little bit into the ocean on the boat and
I was terrified. I couldn't see nothing, and it was
(25:52):
on it like day and night. Man, it's ridiculous. So
it's crazy. So like that, I just I guess it's
like as a payback to what they endure, come in
here not knowing no the language and learning the language,
and so it's just like I guess it's like a
(26:12):
silent head nod to like, I appreciate you for doing
this for me being here.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
And how can Americans everywhere honor the service of veterans
your work in order to make this more just and
inclusive America? What can we do?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Man? Just listen.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's simple as just sometimes an ear, just leanding the
ear to a veteran excuse me and take the load off,
because I done had a few of my a few
of my comrades who felt like the load was too
too heavy for them to carry in and I funnily
(26:56):
they had like an ear maybe that the outcome could have.
So it's just like then in the ear, you know
you got two of them, so might as well use them, right,
But uh.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
That's true, will Lewis, you definitely have had both of
my ears for this segment. I thank you so much
for your service. I think you can be here. D Yes,
This is Dear America with Chanel Barnes, with real people,
real voices, and real stories. Tune in next time by.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
This has been a Project Ready production.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
To learn more and effect change, log onto Project readynjy
dot org or listen anytime on all major podcast carriers
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!