Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Dear America, where your voice matters and every
vote counts. Join us as we explore the power of
black and brown communities and shaping our future. It's time
to make your mark and be heard.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello America.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
This is Chanelle Barnes with the Dear America Show, where
we are interviewing real people, capturing real voices, and getting
real stories. I am so excited to be here with
Katuri Walker. Hi, it's so good to have you. Katuri,
thank you for being here. I want to jump right
in because I want to talk a little bit about
(00:39):
your journey. You have an exciting, personal and powerful journey
toward becoming an artist. Would you be willing to share
a little bit about the traumatic experience that led you
to paint as a means of healing.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Absolutely. I never really wanted to talk about it. I
kept it a secret for a long time. But when
I was younger, I was kidnapped, I was tortured, and
I was raped for three days, actually it was two days,
it felt like three days here in New York. And
it was someone that I trusted and loved, and they
(01:16):
actually took my virginity away. I was waiting to get
married to this person, so it became trauma and so
many levels.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, first off, thank you for sharing that story.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Yes, II for sharing thank you. Yeah. I want to
share this story because I know that there's so many
people who suffered even more than I had, and I
felt like nothing and I worked through it really all
by myself. And then eventually I did seek help, but
I was embarrassed and art saved me because I was
(01:51):
able to express myself by creating the kids I could
never have because as a result, I couldn't have children anymore.
So right there, at twenty three years old, I couldn't
have children, and I didn't know what I was going
to be able to do. Yeah, my destiny was determined
at that time, and it was very hard for me
(02:12):
to figure it out. But I was able to do
it through art. I started creating Katori kids. These were
the children that I couldn't have to share with the world.
I didn't have any art background, but all I had
was this passion to do it. And the first Coatori
kid I did was called Grandma's Love. But I didn't
know what I was doing. I was just waking up
in the morning three o'clock crying. And then I was
(02:34):
challenged by a friend to do an art to do
a painting because she wanted to do a painting for
an art show that she can go if she won
to Italy. So I wanted to support her, and I said,
she goes only if you enter. I'm going to do
it right, And so she won that trip to Italy
and I got third prize. There you go, and I
got encouraged. And then I realized that every time I
(02:55):
painted a Katori kid, I was feeling really good about myself.
I was crying and getting it out, and then I
wanted to share it with the world. And then people
started to like my coatory kids and they said they
had such beautiful energy. It brightened up homes and it
made people feel really good to have these different kids
that I started to develop.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yes, I love this so much.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I want to take a step back before we get
into Katori kids, because I'm excited to explore that you
mentioned at twenty three that's when you realized you couldn't
have children in between, you know, twenty three, and I
suppose when you started Katori kids, when did you decide, Okay,
this is a moment where I think I'm gonna seek
(03:37):
more help.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
What did that help look like for you? Was it
above and beyond art?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Well, let me tell you. I didn't get help then, okay,
and that's the message I wanted to share with people
to get help right away. I was embarrassed. I felt worthless.
So I just did a lot of reading. Okay, So
I read, I got self help books. I didn't get
I didn't have any counseling for it. I was just like,
I can't believe this happened to me, because I was
raised very strict that your virginity was you know, it
(04:06):
was your gem, it was your gift to your husband,
and it was only supposed to be shared with someone
that you loved. And so when that was shripped, I
felt horrible and I didn't want to share it. I
felt embarrassed, in shamed. I felt that people would blame me. So,
going back to your question, I didn't get help. I
didn't actually seek help until I was in my late forties.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, oh wow.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
But yet I did do many things to help other people.
For example, I make kids and different things for people
who were raped and they were in the hospital, and
I made these goodie bags because I found out that okay,
they needed like sunglasses maybe from the bruises or any
abuse that they had. I had lotions and all different
things in there so that they can feel good going home,
(04:51):
absolutely right. And then I would volunteer at different places.
So it always seemed like children and people would come
to me that had some type of an experience, and
it kind of like drawn to me. So I ended
up finally failing. I was like this advocate in some way,
like not even realizing naturally that I was helping people.
And when I started to work for this organization that
(05:14):
was teaching after school program, was teaching well it wasn't
after school, but basically it was a program that taught
people how to abstain, especially after they were abused, because
a lot of these children, young children felt worthless or
they were running off with older people, like running away,
and I was teaching their parents how to not deal
(05:37):
with the situation. And I don't know, I just fell
into these roles. So while I was helping others, I
was healing myself.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I love this and I think right now there are
so many there's a conversation that's being had right now
about survivors who make the choice to explain what they
were survived a bit later than when they actually had
the experience, and I think a lot of people are
(06:05):
drawing different opinions. What do you say to people who
are engaging with survivors that are deciding to rebuild their
story later than when they actually encountered the abuse.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Well, I would say to them basically that to me,
it's a win win wherever you are in your journey
when you start to realize that awareness and you realize
how much it's impacted your life. I ran into someone
who wanted to work with me, and when they found
out this happened to me, they said, you have to
work on yourself first. You have to work with that
(06:38):
acceptance and from that acceptance, because I really was trying
to deny what happened at one point and I had,
you know, post dramatic trauma. So I would say to
that person that they continue to move forward and wherever
you are, that's where you are, and not to look
back at should a could or would have you know
that type of thing, but just take it from where
(06:59):
you are up to who you are and know that
you can help and inspire people to move forward from
being stuck in that dark place.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yes, And on the question I was asking earlier, what
do you say to someone who is actually receiving the
information from the person, someone who's learning that someone they
know or know of is surviving, but they're revealing it
a bit later than when they experience the actual abuse.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
To have compassion, have compassion and listen without judgment, because
it's hard enough for that person to maybe even reveal
what has happened to them, because there's a stigma sometimes
with that, and so have compassion, listen understanding. I think
that that's the best thing you can do, is just
show them love, whether you believe the story or not,
(07:48):
because sometimes people don't believe the story. But listen, Yeah,
be there for them.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Let's go back Tokatury kids, which, by the way, I
am a fan of kature kids. The art of cultory
kids celebrates a child innocence and diversity.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Can you tell us a little bit more about that.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Yeah, So, first, Katori stands for kids. Our treasures are
real inspiration and I am working with tweaking it as
I've grown, because just as I started my artwork, I've
grown from there, right, So it's going to change a
little bit. I've been playing with different words, but it
basically starts off with really empowering the inner you. You're
inner child, and you don't have to be a kid
(08:31):
to feel this inner child vibration or sensation. You know,
sometimes we get so caught up as adults that we
forget that there's a little child in us that needs
love and it may be coming out in different ways.
It may not be coming out in a positive way
because you're neglecting yourself. And we talk about self care, right,
our hair, our nails, our spy, whatever, taking care.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Of it's important to talk about with your children. I
don't think I started having a conversation about self care
and so about a year ago, and I'm thirty seven.
So I love that you're talking about this with children now.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Yes, and I think it's very important. And then we
talk about the inner self. Inner you know, that core
that needs to stay stable through the different trials and
treplations that we go through. And so having that core
and knowing that you're good enough already and you're worthy already.
So when the outside world decides that they want to
tell you something different, that you're like, no, but not
(09:29):
to the point where you have this big ego like
you're just the cats me out or something like that,
but to the point where it's a healthy self esteem
and knowing when to ask for help. That's so key.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yes, knowing when to ask for help.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I love that your murals and artwork are already brightening
up spaces and Yonkers and the Bronx. How do you
envision your art impacting communities, especially children in these public spaces.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Well, I'm glad you asked me that question because I
was doing a mural. And whenever you're doing mural, you
have people who are really like you have people who
don't care, you know, they're just walking by whatever, another
mural or another whatever. But then you do have people
in the community they're like, Okay, this better be a
good mural.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So you have you got.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
And they come out every day, yeah, looking at this,
seeing what you're doing. But I'm glad you asked that
question because I was painting this mural and a lot
of kids were walking back and forth and adults walking
back and forth. This is in a busy area, and
some people say something, some people don't. But the people
that were saying something and stopping were saying, you know what,
(10:38):
every day when I walk by this, it makes me
feel good.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
That's important.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
It changes my perspective from where I'm leaving from the
bus or from wherever they're walking on my way home,
all my way back. And so I think that having
the artwork just nice and bright, changing the whole energy
of the first of all. And then you know it's
(11:03):
near a park, so it just kind of just pops out.
And so I think it makes a difference in one person.
He was from another country and he said, every time
I woke by this piece, it reminds me of my
family and it brings me it makes me feel good.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Wow. And I can imagine that makes you feel good
as well.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Yes, because his family happened to be he was the
only one here.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
So to get that reminder every day made him feel good.
And it makes me feel good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
You've said you hope to encourage people to pursue their
dreams despite obstacles.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Can you share a specific.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Story of how your art has inspired someone to do that.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Yes. So I was at a seminar and it was
for women, and it was really wonderful and I took
it because I was like, oh, I want to take
the seminar. It's for women. It's about just spending time.
You dance, you sing, you just have a really great
time and you just take a minute to get about
the rest of the world. So it was like a
circle of women. And during that time after the seminar,
(12:07):
there was a young lady who came down that was
one of the daughters of the participants, and she knew
about my work and she said to me. She was
very quiet, and she said to me, you know, you know, hey, hi, hello,
And the mom introduced me talk and and everything, and
it was wonderful and I just felt this. I felt
like there was this fire in her, but basically it
(12:30):
was being held in I can't tell you exactly what
I said to her, but I was just giving her
confidence and empowerment. Like my motto is to speak empowerment
and encouragement to any child that I see, absolutely, and
so I said whatever I said. And do you know,
about ten years later I ran into her again and
she said, thank you, thank you your art and everything
(12:52):
that you've said to me that day. I couldn't remember.
I didn't even remember what I said. She goes, but
it inspired me I was in a dark place.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yes, I think there's so often conversations that our youth
want to have with us that they're not always able
to they're not always able to have. Do you have
any advice or thoughts to educators, parents, family members about
how they can create a safe space for children to
(13:21):
be able to clearly articulate what's on their mind.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Well, I'm an artist, so I'm going to go first
with having them. Probably sometimes it's hard things hard to express,
you know, it's like okay, here right, you know, throughout
what you're feeling, what's your mood like. So there's an
art class set I used to do where it was
like you're just you just write about what you're out
of world look like for you today, and what you're
(13:44):
in a world look like for you today, and sometimes
do art people can express how they feel. Also writing,
you know, to write it out, you know, because sometimes
you can't say it it's too hard.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Writing is always so helpful for me. Yes, And I
have a daughter where she would refer to send me
a text message then she would prefer to speak.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
So I think writing is also.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
It's underrated now, but it's a good way to get
that expression out.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
And what's key is to find out know how they
express themselves, you know, because that's another way. And not
to be too pushy, because you would think you want
your family member to come to you and speak to
you and tell you something. But you need to build
that trust that you really are not going to, you know,
not listen to them or go crazy maybe because they
(14:31):
might be scared. You might go hurt somebody if you
find out something. But to build that trust, but to
work with what works with them, I think is the
best way. Not to assume that your way of getting
them to speak or talk about it is the right way.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
It's the only way.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
How do you see your message through your art resonating
with ongoing conversations about race, equality and social justice in
today's climate.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Well, I think it's interesting because I don't do too
many pieces that would just shout in your face that's
what it's about. But I think that when you look
at some of my pieces, like I have one called Unity,
and it's a little boy with an afro and it
has an aunk on the front of it, and then
it has the red, blue and green colors in it
(15:18):
and gold it has and it also has carrying a
teddy bear, an orange teddy bear. So when you look
at that at first, you're like, oh, what a cute picture.
But there's so much meaning behind that. It's very power.
It's talking about spirituality, it's talking about power, it's talking
about innocence. And so people when they see that, they
come up with a whole scenario of a story from
(15:41):
just looking at that one piece. And I love that
because I'm not trying to make people say what's in
my mind? I want you to look at that piece
and decide what does that mean. I have another piece
that is a woman and she has a basket, and
the woman is a darker skin, a lighter skin, and
the baby's hand is darker. Yes, right, So then we
(16:04):
have that conversation going on, and people can look at
that because sometimes people think they look about skin color,
they look at how skin color, like we can you know,
turning just against each other, like how can this lighter
skinned woman have a baby so dark?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Right?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
So now, so I do subtle things like that to
spark conversations. And I was teaching ed a well, I
was asked to be a guest at a college to
talk about my artwork. So I put different pieces up,
and you cannot imagine all the different stories that people
have just from looking at the artwork, looking at how
the color evoked a feeling, or the different shades that
(16:43):
I used, and some of them were very intentional and
some of them just come out of my mind.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yes, I can only imagine going back to the art
piece that you just mentioned, where you're exploring it sounds
to me like you're exploring colors.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Them a bit. Yeah, okay, And I love that piece.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
It hits home for me because I have a son
and he recently, within just the past year, has come
home and said, you know, I want to be white
and I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I don't love my skin.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
And this conversation caught me completely off guard. It's the
conversation you know you have to have with your children,
but also you sometimes don't expect, and I certainly didn't
expect to have it that soon.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
He's only six. Do you have any and this is
I'm going personal America, If.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
You don't mind here, do you mind just sharing a
little bit about how I can leverage your other parents
that are exploring that conversation, how we can leverage art
in order to have that conversation with our children.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Absolutely, I think one of the first things I would
want to explore and find out, like where did he
get that thought? Like where did that come from? With that,
that's theming of where that could be, because that would
be very helpful to see, like where that's coming from
his friends, school, family, wherever it's coming from. But that
would take him to museums. I would introduce him to.
(18:12):
There's so many wonderful books out there that he can
read and see. You know, it's a subtle way, you know,
seeing the empowerment, just seeing all those positive images and
then have discussions, you know, how do you feel and
talk about like really encouraging him on your own way,
because words are power, I believe, but also images, yes, yes,
(18:34):
So to connect those two together and put him in
more of you know, exposing him to seeing more of
those things I think would help a lot.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I you know, I never thought of museums, but museums
are so important. I love that as a suggestion. Congratulations
on your proclamation from the Westchester Board of Legislators. How
does recognition like this fuel your to keep creating and
giving through your art?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Wow? So you know I realized that I didn't update
my resume I writing information. But yeah, that really felt good.
And then all of a sudden, so my partner name
is Evan Bishop, and we are doing these great, amazing
things in the community, and so we got recognized like
boom boom, boom boom. You got recognized by the YWCA. Well,
(19:25):
I got recognized for the YWCA. He got recognized for
other places as well, and we just started getting these awards.
And you know what, I'm going to say this, and
it's not ego, but we worked hard for it. It's
been ten years that we've been putting our own money
into our programs. We've been getting grants, yes, which help
that we've been out there in the community talking to
(19:45):
people and getting to know what people want and what
empowers them. And so to get recognitions, I'm like, it
feels fabulous. I'm so happy and it looks good.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, and shout out to the hubby too, deserves it all.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yes, yes, Well he's doing Yaker's Comic Con and it's
going to be different because we are we have forty
or more artists that create their own superhero that has
the social issue that it's meaning to the community. What
differences do they want to see in the change they
want to see in this world?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Tell us a little bit more about the Yonkers comic
con Tell me more about that thank you were asking?
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Of course yes, and the whole of Heroes is all
about celebrating who you are and worthiness. We have seniors
who participated, we have younger people, We have all people
from different backgrounds that created this wonderful images of superheroes
and their stories and it's amazing. Besides the cosplay and
(20:47):
the fashion show, who Yonkers Fashion Week was really is
partnering with us to make this happen. We decided that
it would be great to have fashion houses in the
community like west Chester Fashion and Week also was a
part of it to like show the community you could
come out and cosplay any way you wanted to come
(21:08):
out and have a safe place to have fun, express yourself,
you know, with family. And then we have other things
like happening like Lego Land, Ghostbusters.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Oh we love Legos, right, Star Wars.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
All coming out for the kids to do some fun stuff.
And then we have entertainers that are going to be
coming really happy to have like more dance that's a
dance company to have Westchester's poet laureate Philly Villain Vas coming,
you know, to do a poem on superheroes.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
This sounds like an amazing time.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
You've spoken about Maya Angelo's quote on the beauty of transformation.
How has your own transformation through art shaped the person
and artists you are right now?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
You know, I don't know. I don't know what my
life would be if I didn't upright embrace art.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
I didn't.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I went into corporate America. That's the way I was
going to be. I was going to be the boss.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Huh.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
And I had this art in me that I wouldn't.
I just wouldn't. Really, I was told that my art
sucked when I was younger. That that was an art teacher.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yes, I'm calling it out and teachers. Teachers have to
know the things that they say matter. I had a
teacher and told me that I was dyslexic and I
would never read not.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
True, not How we have to be careful.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
What we put into our children. And it sounds like
that was your experience.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Yeah, yeah, it was, And it kind of broke me
in a way because I really admired and respected this teacher,
but I now know, and I share this with other people.
If you have something in your spirit and you believe
in it, don't let what anyone else say stop you
that I'm doing it. Yeah, so art I believe saved
(22:55):
my life. Meditation helped me along the way too. And
I just think that I can't see myself even in
corporate America. If I was to do go back into
that realm in life, which I you know, was really
good at, I still keep arts. I would still be
there an art in everything. Yeah, it's a part of
(23:18):
my It's I feel so good like I embrace it.
It's everything to make We.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Are roughly we're days away from the election the United
States presidential election. Can you give us any thoughts from
an artist's perspective about how folks should be thinking about
their voice and their vote as we get closer to
this election.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Absolutely, I think people should really take a moment to
see how serious this is and that, you know, we
need to use our voices to make change. And sometimes
we may think, well, my voice doesn't matter anything, it
doesn't matter, but it does matter. Think about your ancestors
that actually shed blood, that was beaten, everything that happened
(24:07):
to them, just to make that vote.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
My grandmother lived to one hundred years old. She lived
to vote. Let me tell you, anytime, any chance she got,
she was like reminding me to vote, reminding my family
to vote. And she looked at it as a way
to make sure that we have the right people and
(24:32):
the right we have the right people in place to
make a difference for the changes that we seek. And
one thing she said, when President Obama was in office,
I can die now a happy lady. That's how much
it meant to her. Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Wow, I love that.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
And just as a woman, as a survivor, as a
black woman, are there anything that you look forward to
seeing in America after the presidential election?
Speaker 4 (25:08):
I look forward to seeing more equality across the board
in all sectors. I think that the more we have
the opportunity to have a voice, the more a chance
we have for change. And I think that if we
(25:28):
don't make that push, a lot of history could be
easily erased.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Absolutely, at what point did you realize your voice mattered?
Speaker 4 (25:38):
So I think that I realized my voice mattered when
I stopped being scared, when I stopped trying to please
other people, when I realize that I am worthy and
that I can make a difference, and I make a
(26:00):
difference every day, even if it's just a smile to someone.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
And when did you realize your vote mattered?
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I think my vote. I realized that when President Obahama,
Oh my gosh, it was such a great day. And
I loved seeing my nana so happy for all the
times and the struggles she had to go through to
you know, in the beginning when she was younger, to
make that happen, you know, not make that happen, but
(26:27):
to make her voice going to the ballot happen.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yes, Well with Katori kids and everything else you have
going on, I imagine we're looking at a lifetime of incredible
art for our listeners who may be facing challenges or
feeling lost. What message of hope and perseverance would you
like to leave them with your story?
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I think that I want them to remember that their
circumstances are not who they are, that to look into
their soul and remember they're here for purpose. I truly
believe everyone has a purpose, and sometimes we might not
know what it is at that point. But it doesn't
mean that we're insignificant. It just means that we haven't
(27:15):
figured it out yet. And in the meantime, my mom
used to always say life is a journey. So every
moment is a journey, and just be grateful for the
life you have. I almost died three times in my life,
and each time I lived, I was like, Wow, there
is a purpose because I could have died when I
(27:39):
was right, because he went to get a needle with
bleach to kill me. I could have died.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I was twenty three.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Yeah, it's on my birthday. Yeah, And so it's something
that I truly believe that in your darkness, there's always
there was always that light. Take time to stop, medicate
and just know this this too shall pass, and that
there is a way and you'll get through it. And
sometimes life you just go along with ebbs and flows.
(28:09):
You're here high up and then you're down, but never
forget that you're here for purpose.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Absolutely, thank you so much for being here with us.
Thank you, and I'm excited to have you back on
the show so that we could talk more about how
your art, Incatory Kids, is revolutionizing America than with that.
This is Chanelle Barnes on the Dear America Show, where
we are interviewing folks who are giving us real voices
(28:36):
and real stories.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Talk to you soon. Bye.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
This has been a Project Ready production. To learn more
and effect change, log on to Project readyenjay dot org
or listen anytime on all major podcast carriers.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Four
Welcome to Dear America, where your voice matters and every
vote counts. Join us as we explore the power of
black and brown communities and shaping our future. It's time
to make your mark and be heard.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello America.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
This is Chanelle Barnes with the Dear America Show, where
we are interviewing real people, capturing real voices, and getting
real stories. I am so excited to be here with
Katuri Walker. Hi, it's so good to have you. Katuri,
thank you for being here. I want to jump right
in because I want to talk a little bit about
(00:39):
your journey. You have an exciting, personal and powerful journey
toward becoming an artist. Would you be willing to share
a little bit about the traumatic experience that led you
to paint as a means of healing.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Absolutely. I never really wanted to talk about it. I
kept it a secret for a long time. But when
I was younger, I was kidnapped, I was tortured, and
I was raped for three days, actually it was two days,
it felt like three days here in New York. And
it was someone that I trusted and loved, and they
(01:16):
actually took my virginity away. I was waiting to get
married to this person, so it became trauma and so
many levels.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, first off, thank you for sharing that story.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Yes, II for sharing thank you. Yeah. I want to
share this story because I know that there's so many
people who suffered even more than I had, and I
felt like nothing and I worked through it really all
by myself. And then eventually I did seek help, but
I was embarrassed and art saved me because I was
(01:51):
able to express myself by creating the kids I could
never have because as a result, I couldn't have children anymore.
So right there, at twenty three years old, I couldn't
have children, and I didn't know what I was going
to be able to do. Yeah, my destiny was determined
at that time, and it was very hard for me
(02:12):
to figure it out. But I was able to do
it through art. I started creating Katori kids. These were
the children that I couldn't have to share with the world.
I didn't have any art background, but all I had
was this passion to do it. And the first Coatori
kid I did was called Grandma's Love. But I didn't
know what I was doing. I was just waking up
in the morning three o'clock crying. And then I was
(02:34):
challenged by a friend to do an art to do
a painting because she wanted to do a painting for
an art show that she can go if she won
to Italy. So I wanted to support her, and I said,
she goes only if you enter. I'm going to do
it right, And so she won that trip to Italy
and I got third prize. There you go, and I
got encouraged. And then I realized that every time I
(02:55):
painted a Katori kid, I was feeling really good about myself.
I was crying and getting it out, and then I
wanted to share it with the world. And then people
started to like my coatory kids and they said they
had such beautiful energy. It brightened up homes and it
made people feel really good to have these different kids
that I started to develop.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yes, I love this so much.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I want to take a step back before we get
into Katori kids, because I'm excited to explore that you
mentioned at twenty three that's when you realized you couldn't
have children in between, you know, twenty three, and I
suppose when you started Katori kids, when did you decide, Okay,
this is a moment where I think I'm gonna seek
(03:37):
more help.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
What did that help look like for you? Was it
above and beyond art?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Well, let me tell you. I didn't get help then, okay,
and that's the message I wanted to share with people
to get help right away. I was embarrassed. I felt worthless.
So I just did a lot of reading. Okay, So
I read, I got self help books. I didn't get
I didn't have any counseling for it. I was just like,
I can't believe this happened to me, because I was
raised very strict that your virginity was you know, it
(04:06):
was your gem, it was your gift to your husband,
and it was only supposed to be shared with someone
that you loved. And so when that was shripped, I
felt horrible and I didn't want to share it. I
felt embarrassed, in shamed. I felt that people would blame me. So,
going back to your question, I didn't get help. I
didn't actually seek help until I was in my late forties.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, oh wow.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
But yet I did do many things to help other people.
For example, I make kids and different things for people
who were raped and they were in the hospital, and
I made these goodie bags because I found out that okay,
they needed like sunglasses maybe from the bruises or any
abuse that they had. I had lotions and all different
things in there so that they can feel good going home,
(04:51):
absolutely right. And then I would volunteer at different places.
So it always seemed like children and people would come
to me that had some type of an experience, and
it kind of like drawn to me. So I ended
up finally failing. I was like this advocate in some way,
like not even realizing naturally that I was helping people.
And when I started to work for this organization that
(05:14):
was teaching after school program, was teaching well it wasn't
after school, but basically it was a program that taught
people how to abstain, especially after they were abused, because
a lot of these children, young children felt worthless or
they were running off with older people, like running away,
and I was teaching their parents how to not deal
(05:37):
with the situation. And I don't know, I just fell
into these roles. So while I was helping others, I
was healing myself.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I love this and I think right now there are
so many there's a conversation that's being had right now
about survivors who make the choice to explain what they
were survived a bit later than when they actually had
the experience, and I think a lot of people are
(06:05):
drawing different opinions. What do you say to people who
are engaging with survivors that are deciding to rebuild their
story later than when they actually encountered the abuse.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Well, I would say to them basically that to me,
it's a win win wherever you are in your journey
when you start to realize that awareness and you realize
how much it's impacted your life. I ran into someone
who wanted to work with me, and when they found
out this happened to me, they said, you have to
work on yourself first. You have to work with that
(06:38):
acceptance and from that acceptance, because I really was trying
to deny what happened at one point and I had,
you know, post dramatic trauma. So I would say to
that person that they continue to move forward and wherever
you are, that's where you are, and not to look
back at should a could or would have you know
that type of thing, but just take it from where
(06:59):
you are up to who you are and know that
you can help and inspire people to move forward from
being stuck in that dark place.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yes, And on the question I was asking earlier, what
do you say to someone who is actually receiving the
information from the person, someone who's learning that someone they
know or know of is surviving, but they're revealing it
a bit later than when they experience the actual abuse.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
To have compassion, have compassion and listen without judgment, because
it's hard enough for that person to maybe even reveal
what has happened to them, because there's a stigma sometimes
with that, and so have compassion, listen understanding. I think
that that's the best thing you can do, is just
show them love, whether you believe the story or not,
(07:48):
because sometimes people don't believe the story. But listen, Yeah,
be there for them.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Let's go back Tokatury kids, which, by the way, I
am a fan of kature kids. The art of cultory
kids celebrates a child innocence and diversity.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Can you tell us a little bit more about that.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Yeah, So, first, Katori stands for kids. Our treasures are
real inspiration and I am working with tweaking it as
I've grown, because just as I started my artwork, I've
grown from there, right, So it's going to change a
little bit. I've been playing with different words, but it
basically starts off with really empowering the inner you. You're
inner child, and you don't have to be a kid
(08:31):
to feel this inner child vibration or sensation. You know,
sometimes we get so caught up as adults that we
forget that there's a little child in us that needs
love and it may be coming out in different ways.
It may not be coming out in a positive way
because you're neglecting yourself. And we talk about self care, right,
our hair, our nails, our spy, whatever, taking care.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Of it's important to talk about with your children. I
don't think I started having a conversation about self care
and so about a year ago, and I'm thirty seven.
So I love that you're talking about this with children now.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Yes, and I think it's very important. And then we
talk about the inner self. Inner you know, that core
that needs to stay stable through the different trials and
treplations that we go through. And so having that core
and knowing that you're good enough already and you're worthy already.
So when the outside world decides that they want to
tell you something different, that you're like, no, but not
(09:29):
to the point where you have this big ego like
you're just the cats me out or something like that,
but to the point where it's a healthy self esteem
and knowing when to ask for help. That's so key.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yes, knowing when to ask for help.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I love that your murals and artwork are already brightening
up spaces and Yonkers and the Bronx. How do you
envision your art impacting communities, especially children in these public spaces.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Well, I'm glad you asked me that question because I
was doing a mural. And whenever you're doing mural, you
have people who are really like you have people who
don't care, you know, they're just walking by whatever, another
mural or another whatever. But then you do have people
in the community they're like, Okay, this better be a
good mural.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So you have you got.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
And they come out every day, yeah, looking at this,
seeing what you're doing. But I'm glad you asked that
question because I was painting this mural and a lot
of kids were walking back and forth and adults walking
back and forth. This is in a busy area, and
some people say something, some people don't. But the people
that were saying something and stopping were saying, you know what,
(10:38):
every day when I walk by this, it makes me
feel good.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
That's important.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
It changes my perspective from where I'm leaving from the
bus or from wherever they're walking on my way home,
all my way back. And so I think that having
the artwork just nice and bright, changing the whole energy
of the first of all. And then you know it's
(11:03):
near a park, so it just kind of just pops out.
And so I think it makes a difference in one person.
He was from another country and he said, every time
I woke by this piece, it reminds me of my
family and it brings me it makes me feel good.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Wow. And I can imagine that makes you feel good
as well.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Yes, because his family happened to be he was the
only one here.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
So to get that reminder every day made him feel good.
And it makes me feel good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
You've said you hope to encourage people to pursue their
dreams despite obstacles.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Can you share a specific.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Story of how your art has inspired someone to do that.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Yes. So I was at a seminar and it was
for women, and it was really wonderful and I took
it because I was like, oh, I want to take
the seminar. It's for women. It's about just spending time.
You dance, you sing, you just have a really great
time and you just take a minute to get about
the rest of the world. So it was like a
circle of women. And during that time after the seminar,
(12:07):
there was a young lady who came down that was
one of the daughters of the participants, and she knew
about my work and she said to me. She was
very quiet, and she said to me, you know, you know, hey, hi, hello,
And the mom introduced me talk and and everything, and
it was wonderful and I just felt this. I felt
like there was this fire in her, but basically it
(12:30):
was being held in I can't tell you exactly what
I said to her, but I was just giving her
confidence and empowerment. Like my motto is to speak empowerment
and encouragement to any child that I see, absolutely, and
so I said whatever I said. And do you know,
about ten years later I ran into her again and
she said, thank you, thank you your art and everything
(12:52):
that you've said to me that day. I couldn't remember.
I didn't even remember what I said. She goes, but
it inspired me I was in a dark place.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yes, I think there's so often conversations that our youth
want to have with us that they're not always able
to they're not always able to have. Do you have
any advice or thoughts to educators, parents, family members about
how they can create a safe space for children to
(13:21):
be able to clearly articulate what's on their mind.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Well, I'm an artist, so I'm going to go first
with having them. Probably sometimes it's hard things hard to express,
you know, it's like okay, here right, you know, throughout
what you're feeling, what's your mood like. So there's an
art class set I used to do where it was
like you're just you just write about what you're out
of world look like for you today, and what you're
(13:44):
in a world look like for you today, and sometimes
do art people can express how they feel. Also writing,
you know, to write it out, you know, because sometimes
you can't say it it's too hard.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Writing is always so helpful for me. Yes, And I
have a daughter where she would refer to send me
a text message then she would prefer to speak.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
So I think writing is also.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
It's underrated now, but it's a good way to get
that expression out.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
And what's key is to find out know how they
express themselves, you know, because that's another way. And not
to be too pushy, because you would think you want
your family member to come to you and speak to
you and tell you something. But you need to build
that trust that you really are not going to, you know,
not listen to them or go crazy maybe because they
(14:31):
might be scared. You might go hurt somebody if you
find out something. But to build that trust, but to
work with what works with them, I think is the
best way. Not to assume that your way of getting
them to speak or talk about it is the right way.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
It's the only way.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
How do you see your message through your art resonating
with ongoing conversations about race, equality and social justice in
today's climate.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Well, I think it's interesting because I don't do too
many pieces that would just shout in your face that's
what it's about. But I think that when you look
at some of my pieces, like I have one called Unity,
and it's a little boy with an afro and it
has an aunk on the front of it, and then
it has the red, blue and green colors in it
(15:18):
and gold it has and it also has carrying a
teddy bear, an orange teddy bear. So when you look
at that at first, you're like, oh, what a cute picture.
But there's so much meaning behind that. It's very power.
It's talking about spirituality, it's talking about power, it's talking
about innocence. And so people when they see that, they
come up with a whole scenario of a story from
(15:41):
just looking at that one piece. And I love that
because I'm not trying to make people say what's in
my mind? I want you to look at that piece
and decide what does that mean. I have another piece
that is a woman and she has a basket, and
the woman is a darker skin, a lighter skin, and
the baby's hand is darker. Yes, right, So then we
(16:04):
have that conversation going on, and people can look at
that because sometimes people think they look about skin color,
they look at how skin color, like we can you know,
turning just against each other, like how can this lighter
skinned woman have a baby so dark?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Right?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
So now, so I do subtle things like that to
spark conversations. And I was teaching ed a well, I
was asked to be a guest at a college to
talk about my artwork. So I put different pieces up,
and you cannot imagine all the different stories that people
have just from looking at the artwork, looking at how
the color evoked a feeling, or the different shades that
(16:43):
I used, and some of them were very intentional and
some of them just come out of my mind.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yes, I can only imagine going back to the art
piece that you just mentioned, where you're exploring it sounds
to me like you're exploring colors.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Them a bit. Yeah, okay, And I love that piece.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
It hits home for me because I have a son
and he recently, within just the past year, has come
home and said, you know, I want to be white
and I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I don't love my skin.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
And this conversation caught me completely off guard. It's the
conversation you know you have to have with your children,
but also you sometimes don't expect, and I certainly didn't
expect to have it that soon.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
He's only six. Do you have any and this is
I'm going personal America, If.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
You don't mind here, do you mind just sharing a
little bit about how I can leverage your other parents
that are exploring that conversation, how we can leverage art
in order to have that conversation with our children.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Absolutely, I think one of the first things I would
want to explore and find out, like where did he
get that thought? Like where did that come from? With that,
that's theming of where that could be, because that would
be very helpful to see, like where that's coming from
his friends, school, family, wherever it's coming from. But that
would take him to museums. I would introduce him to.
(18:12):
There's so many wonderful books out there that he can
read and see. You know, it's a subtle way, you know,
seeing the empowerment, just seeing all those positive images and
then have discussions, you know, how do you feel and
talk about like really encouraging him on your own way,
because words are power, I believe, but also images, yes, yes,
(18:34):
So to connect those two together and put him in
more of you know, exposing him to seeing more of
those things I think would help a lot.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
I you know, I never thought of museums, but museums
are so important. I love that as a suggestion. Congratulations
on your proclamation from the Westchester Board of Legislators. How
does recognition like this fuel your to keep creating and
giving through your art?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Wow? So you know I realized that I didn't update
my resume I writing information. But yeah, that really felt good.
And then all of a sudden, so my partner name
is Evan Bishop, and we are doing these great, amazing
things in the community, and so we got recognized like
boom boom, boom boom. You got recognized by the YWCA. Well,
(19:25):
I got recognized for the YWCA. He got recognized for
other places as well, and we just started getting these awards.
And you know what, I'm going to say this, and
it's not ego, but we worked hard for it. It's
been ten years that we've been putting our own money
into our programs. We've been getting grants, yes, which help
that we've been out there in the community talking to
(19:45):
people and getting to know what people want and what
empowers them. And so to get recognitions, I'm like, it
feels fabulous. I'm so happy and it looks good.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, and shout out to the hubby too, deserves it all.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yes, yes, Well he's doing Yaker's Comic Con and it's
going to be different because we are we have forty
or more artists that create their own superhero that has
the social issue that it's meaning to the community. What
differences do they want to see in the change they
want to see in this world?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Tell us a little bit more about the Yonkers comic
con Tell me more about that thank you were asking?
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Of course yes, and the whole of Heroes is all
about celebrating who you are and worthiness. We have seniors
who participated, we have younger people, We have all people
from different backgrounds that created this wonderful images of superheroes
and their stories and it's amazing. Besides the cosplay and
(20:47):
the fashion show, who Yonkers Fashion Week was really is
partnering with us to make this happen. We decided that
it would be great to have fashion houses in the
community like west Chester Fashion and Week also was a
part of it to like show the community you could
come out and cosplay any way you wanted to come
(21:08):
out and have a safe place to have fun, express yourself,
you know, with family. And then we have other things
like happening like Lego Land, Ghostbusters.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Oh we love Legos, right, Star Wars.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
All coming out for the kids to do some fun stuff.
And then we have entertainers that are going to be
coming really happy to have like more dance that's a
dance company to have Westchester's poet laureate Philly Villain Vas coming,
you know, to do a poem on superheroes.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
This sounds like an amazing time.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
You've spoken about Maya Angelo's quote on the beauty of transformation.
How has your own transformation through art shaped the person
and artists you are right now?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
You know, I don't know. I don't know what my
life would be if I didn't upright embrace art.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
I didn't.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I went into corporate America. That's the way I was
going to be. I was going to be the boss.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Huh.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
And I had this art in me that I wouldn't.
I just wouldn't. Really, I was told that my art
sucked when I was younger. That that was an art teacher.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yes, I'm calling it out and teachers. Teachers have to
know the things that they say matter. I had a
teacher and told me that I was dyslexic and I
would never read not.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
True, not How we have to be careful.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
What we put into our children. And it sounds like
that was your experience.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Yeah, yeah, it was, And it kind of broke me
in a way because I really admired and respected this teacher,
but I now know, and I share this with other people.
If you have something in your spirit and you believe
in it, don't let what anyone else say stop you
that I'm doing it. Yeah, so art I believe saved
(22:55):
my life. Meditation helped me along the way too. And
I just think that I can't see myself even in
corporate America. If I was to do go back into
that realm in life, which I you know, was really
good at, I still keep arts. I would still be
there an art in everything. Yeah, it's a part of
(23:18):
my It's I feel so good like I embrace it.
It's everything to make We.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Are roughly we're days away from the election the United
States presidential election. Can you give us any thoughts from
an artist's perspective about how folks should be thinking about
their voice and their vote as we get closer to
this election.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Absolutely, I think people should really take a moment to
see how serious this is and that, you know, we
need to use our voices to make change. And sometimes
we may think, well, my voice doesn't matter anything, it
doesn't matter, but it does matter. Think about your ancestors
that actually shed blood, that was beaten, everything that happened
(24:07):
to them, just to make that vote.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
My grandmother lived to one hundred years old. She lived
to vote. Let me tell you, anytime, any chance she got,
she was like reminding me to vote, reminding my family
to vote. And she looked at it as a way
to make sure that we have the right people and
(24:32):
the right we have the right people in place to
make a difference for the changes that we seek. And
one thing she said, when President Obama was in office,
I can die now a happy lady. That's how much
it meant to her. Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Wow, I love that.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
And just as a woman, as a survivor, as a
black woman, are there anything that you look forward to
seeing in America after the presidential election?
Speaker 4 (25:08):
I look forward to seeing more equality across the board
in all sectors. I think that the more we have
the opportunity to have a voice, the more a chance
we have for change. And I think that if we
(25:28):
don't make that push, a lot of history could be
easily erased.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Absolutely, at what point did you realize your voice mattered?
Speaker 4 (25:38):
So I think that I realized my voice mattered when
I stopped being scared, when I stopped trying to please
other people, when I realize that I am worthy and
that I can make a difference, and I make a
(26:00):
difference every day, even if it's just a smile to someone.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
And when did you realize your vote mattered?
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I think my vote. I realized that when President Obahama,
Oh my gosh, it was such a great day. And
I loved seeing my nana so happy for all the
times and the struggles she had to go through to
you know, in the beginning when she was younger, to
make that happen, you know, not make that happen, but
(26:27):
to make her voice going to the ballot happen.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yes, Well with Katori kids and everything else you have
going on, I imagine we're looking at a lifetime of incredible
art for our listeners who may be facing challenges or
feeling lost. What message of hope and perseverance would you
like to leave them with your story?
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I think that I want them to remember that their
circumstances are not who they are, that to look into
their soul and remember they're here for purpose. I truly
believe everyone has a purpose, and sometimes we might not
know what it is at that point. But it doesn't
mean that we're insignificant. It just means that we haven't
(27:15):
figured it out yet. And in the meantime, my mom
used to always say life is a journey. So every
moment is a journey, and just be grateful for the
life you have. I almost died three times in my life,
and each time I lived, I was like, Wow, there
is a purpose because I could have died when I
(27:39):
was right, because he went to get a needle with
bleach to kill me. I could have died.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I was twenty three.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Yeah, it's on my birthday. Yeah, And so it's something
that I truly believe that in your darkness, there's always
there was always that light. Take time to stop, medicate
and just know this this too shall pass, and that
there is a way and you'll get through it. And
sometimes life you just go along with ebbs and flows.
(28:09):
You're here high up and then you're down, but never
forget that you're here for purpose.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Absolutely, thank you so much for being here with us.
Thank you, and I'm excited to have you back on
the show so that we could talk more about how
your art, Incatory Kids, is revolutionizing America than with that.
This is Chanelle Barnes on the Dear America Show, where
we are interviewing folks who are giving us real voices
(28:36):
and real stories.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Talk to you soon. Bye.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
This has been a Project Ready production. To learn more
and effect change, log on to Project readyenjay dot org
or listen anytime on all major podcast carriers.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Four
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