Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Dear America, where your voice matters and every
vote counts. Join us as we.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Explore the power of black and brown communities and shaping
our future.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
It's time to make your mark.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And be heard.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello America. This is Dear America with Chanelle Barnes, where
we are interviewing real people, capturing real voices, and telling
real stories. And I am here with someone who I
think I just we have a blast all the time.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's doctor Jamar Childs. Doctor Jamar. How are you today?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I'm well, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I've been waiting for this conversation that I didn't even
know we were going to have, but I'm happy we're
having it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Kay, respectfully, can you tell us a.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Little bit about your background and how it has shaped
who you are today and your overall perspective on America.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I think I have a very unique perspective in this
day and age. And what I mean by that is
I'm a black male and I'm also a police officer,
so I think that's very relevant in today's society. And
to add to that, I'm the product of a single
parent home of a black woman, right and I'm from that.
Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, and I'm from Nork, New Jersey. Okay,
(01:19):
So I say that to say all of the odds
could have been stacked against me, but I persevered, and
I took things that I love from people, and I
forgot the things that I didn't like.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Okay, I love that and shout out to Nork, New Jersey.
I'm also born and raised in New York, so it's good.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
To have Brick City in the house.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Now, you mentioned before we get into you being a
police officer, because I'm excited to get there. You mentioned
you are the child of a single mom, a black mom.
Can you just talk a little bit about that specific
experience and.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
How some of those memories you have led to where
you are absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Just a touch on from the beginning. I grew up
in a Weekway section that's the south side of like
North New Jersey, having a single parent home. My mom,
she was always working just to make ends meet. But luckily,
I want to touch on this early the village had
my grandma, had my aunts, I had grand great grandmothers,
(02:16):
and everybody that was just all entuned with making sure
you was doing the right thing. And I grew up
in a tom Fortunately, I was born in eighty nine
where if you did something outside the house, although there
was no cell phones, by the time you got home,
they already knew.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
What you did. They had their own solo phone. I
think that was even faster than our text messages.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yes, yes, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
And to touch on a single parent aspect, my mom
she instilled in me the importance of self, family, community, country,
and the world.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
What role did you feel like you needed to play
in your household as a growing black boy, you know,
with your mom?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
To be honest, my mom, my family very strong. They
allowed me to be a kid. And that's why when
I just sit here and I reflect, I can say
I enjoy my childhood. I was in a kid's place,
and that's why I can grow up and I can understand,
and I can have those mature conversations and I can
understand perspectives because when it was my time, I live
(03:22):
that time thoroughly, so I can move on to the
next level of thinking.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Right, So fast forward, you become a police officer. How
did we get there? How did we get to becoming
a police officer?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Honestly, a lot of people may share this story a
friend actually was passionate about being a police officer. They
just told me to join them, right and going to
the interview, and ironically enough, I got hired.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
They didn't Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Did they come back or oh yeah, yeah, they like
wund up coming back to like being law enforcement, but
they're no longer in law enforcement. Actually they're an educator now,
So that's actually pretty funny. But in terms of the
journey of law enforcement, when I first started the job,
it was just a job, and then as I continue
(04:12):
to dive into the job, more things occurred. Initially becoming
a police officer, again it was just a job. And
then I wound up going to school for my master's
in public administration, and then from there I started a
doctorate in a criminal justice. Because when everything started going
on in the world, I was like, you know what,
what if I can give two, well three different perspectives
(04:34):
a black man, practical knowledge and theoretical knowledge. My theoretical
was in the classroom, my practical was actually living it,
and the experience was a black man. So I felt
like my opinion became very unique out of anybody, because
it's easy to be on two sides talking from a
perspective but it's very rare to have someone that's living
it and they have a true perspective of what it
(04:56):
actually means to be a black man, what it means
to be a cop, what it means to be an educator.
The ones that create the policy that the cops have
filmed forced on the people that look like me. Everyone
don't get it twisted. But the issue is the people
that look like me currently in the society that we
live in.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Why is that? Why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
If I had that answer, I would be a trillionaire.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Okay, all right, I just said, well, when you get
that in Sower, you come back on the show.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And let we can tion yas. That's the point. Now,
Now let's go back.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So you become a police officer, and I know you
said that, you explored, you know, what it means to
be a black man a police officer. I want to
talk a little bit about racism. At what point did
you start to see an intersection in between criminal justice
and racism?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Hmmm, that's actually a very great question. I'll give a
personal example. This was before I became a police officer.
I actually wrote an article about this. I was a
writer for the Huffington Post. So I was under a
government column and I had wrote this article being a
black man in America, it's as close as it gets,
(06:10):
and knowing what it feels like to be white in America.
And I say that to say, there was two different
experiences and there was a duality going on. When I
was in my uniform, I'll go to stores the utmost respect, Hi, Hi,
how can I help you? And then I'll go to
that same store, same day without my uniform. And now
(06:30):
I was like, oh, what you need? And that right there,
I feel like speaks volumes about the experience and the
racism versus the system.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I've heard some people say, there's black, there's white, there's brown,
there's blue.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I think it's literally another mantra that people created not
to tackle the real issue that's going on, and that's
the issue of human nature. That's the issue of accountability.
That's the issue of bringing shame back into society. If
someone does something wrong, wrong is wrong and right is right.
You don't have to be a color to understand or
know that.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yep, I love that. So let's go back. We're a
mid COVID nineteen.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Everyone in America experiences what happened with George Floyd. Everyone
experiences what happened with brionn It's here. I mean, the
list obviously goes on during these moments. Do you how
do you reflect on your work as a police officer
and how do you just reflect on the work of
(07:33):
being someone who is in a position to protect the nation.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
To be honest, when I think about the situations that
people got in, although they were very unfortunate, we have
to put accountability on all angles. And it was like,
what can we do to minimize our interactions? And like
how can we be in that change?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Meaning like if the community as a whole have issues
with let's say law enforcement and the way it's ran.
And this comes down to everything. It comes down to
And it sounds like I'm jumping all over the place,
but follow me. Follow me. You literally have to be
responsible for the off elections, not like just the presidential years,
(08:18):
the ones that are going to represent you on a
day to day basis, the office that you can literally
walk into on a daily to say, hey, these are
my concerns. But not only that, you got to also
apply for your local police forces. If you don't like cops,
there's a reason why you don't like them, probably because
you don't like the culture of it. But you can
change the culture. Now, hear me out with the George
(08:40):
Floyd and the Breonna Taylor. If there were individuals from
that area that look like them, the interactions may have
been different. Of course, you have a job to do
and like law enforcement, but there's different levels and there's
different tiers of it, and if you understand a person's perspective,
you can tackle a situation differently. Someone once said, in
(09:01):
order to understand my way of thinking, you have to
be put in my position. So you figure, if someone
was relatable to George Floyd and they had a job
to do, they still could have approached them, and they
could have did what was necessary to get the job
done so that that man could walk away with his life.
But still, if he did commit a crime, be responsible
for his actions as well.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
You allude to something that I want to really break
down for our audience, because I don't think many people
understand it. You talk about the power of believing and
knowing that all politics are local. How exactly does someone's
vote impact how the police are shaped and what police
(09:41):
are actually representing them.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
How exactly does that happen?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Well, I can tell you this. I won't name specific towns,
but I could say this. Our chief directly has meetings
with the mayor. Okay, and that alone speaks volumes because
he's getting his direction from the mayor, and the mayor
want to appease the people. He's a voters. So if
your voters have a specific issue that they want to
tackle on, that's going to trickle down to the mayor.
(10:07):
From the mayor's going to go to the chief, then chief, captain, lieutenant, sergeants,
and the officers with the boots on the ground. So
the change starts at the top and it comes down
to the bottom. But everybody could be accountable because there's
definitely meetings and I've been a part of them. And
if you vote for your local politicians, you have to
tell them what you want to see. And trust me,
(10:27):
if they want to stay where they are, they'll do it.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
This is good.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Now I want to talk about the general movement of
you know, people thinking about defunding the police.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
What's your perspective on that movement?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Should?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I mean, obviously I know you're a police officer, but
have you had a thought on police being defunded the
movement being defunded.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Absolutely, And this is actually a great question, thank you.
And I've been waiting to answer this question on a
national level. Okay, I don't think it's a think of
the funding the police we should worry about. I think
that we should reallocate funds to where it's necessary. For example,
instead of spending more time on defensive tactics and fighting people,
(11:12):
let's spend time on verbal judo. So let's take our
resources and go towards Wait a minute, how do you
talk to people better? How can I relate to them?
We all have our implicit bias, we all have our schemas,
we all have our way of thinking. But if you
can be trained on wait a minute, this is their culture.
(11:32):
They're not really yelling at me. They just talk in
this tone in this culture. For example, I know the
Asian culture because I'm a college professor too. I had
an Asian student, and every time I talk to them,
they'll look down, and I'm like, wait a minute, are
they not paying attention to me? Then I talked to
one of my Asian colleagues and he said, no, And
our culture is respectful not to look in their.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Eyes, and you would have never known that if you
didn't exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So, in correlation to that, were enforcement. If you have
these trainings on how different cultures act in their social norms,
it might be a situation where wait a minute, they're
not getting aggressive. This is just where they're from, this
is what they know, this is how they communicate. But
I don't know that. But as a police officer, that's
(12:17):
a public position. So you it is your responsibility to
know the community you serve.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I wanted to get that a beat because I didn't
want to catch it. Oh yeah, no, no.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
How can we balance the need for police accountability with
the necessity of maintaining public safety.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
That's a very great question. I did my dissertation from
my doctorate on body worn cameras and privacy rights and
just to like correlate to that question. When it comes
to accountability, it's not just a camera that's gonna stop you.
It's gonna make you be mindful, you know what it is.
It's your peers that you're working with who has to
(12:58):
have that accountability. I think is that accountability factor that
all starts from Hey wait a minute, stop, and that
could stop a lifelong of trouble for everyone.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I was just reading an article with the New York Times,
and the article was talking about the fact that we
have these two presidential candidates who we need to assess,
who we need to vote on. But there has been
a glaring misstep in the lack of conversation around criminal
justice reform. What's your take on that should there is?
Do you feel like we've had enough conversation about this
(13:31):
and if not, where should the conversation be.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
So I don't think that we had enough conversation on it,
and I don't think we'll ever have enough. I think
the purpose of reform is to keep re r e redo, rename,
re establish, And as long as we're growing as a nation,
we're growing as people, we're constantly changing. That means our
laws and policies have to constantly change to govern us
(13:57):
because we're no longer the same people that we were
twenty years ago, thirty years ago. For example, the Department
of Homeland Security was founded at or around two thousand
and one. That was founded after the nine to eleven attacks.
Before that, you can go into the airport and pretty
much get a lot of things through, but things got stricter.
You know what they did, They did a reform of
(14:18):
their policy because they said, wait a minute, things are
going on that shouldn't happen. Innocent people are getting hurt.
We need to step back and take a look at
this and reform. And I think that the same should
be treated with the criminal justice system. Let's reform and
let's redo things so that it can accomplish a goal
of making sure that we are all on one page.
And you can't please everybody, but that's why there's a
(14:40):
such thing called the majority.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
But I think you've got something that does please most people,
and that's your business with urban cone. Tell us about
urban cone, tell us about the ice cream. I think
most people love ice siden rsolutely, or at least I did.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah. Absolutely, that's actually a great transition, and how to
make it relevant to criminal justice. The mission state is
uniting the culture and overcoming societal obstacles one cone at
a time. Everybody loved sugar, everybody loves sweets, and a
lot of times when you think of a good time
during your childhood, ice cream is involved somehow, somehow, ironically enough,
(15:18):
during like COVID, that's when all of the protests were
going on, the world was shut down. People were more
in tune with politics and protests more than ever in
my opinion, And at the time I was looking for
a business to start and during COVID absolutely I didn't know, absolutely,
and naturally I fell into ice cream because I wanted
(15:40):
to think of something that would unite people for a
better cause, better meaning the sense of getting together, happy
and talking about how can we make a change as
opposed to our differences. Me being a cop, me being black,
me being in a community. I thought of something, how
can we unite people? And I said, oh, let's do
ice cream. So we had a lot of ice cream
(16:01):
socials with like police departments and the public and politicians,
and everyone was coming together with ice cream. The business
model wound up taking off, wound up growing. I was
able to grow into multiple stores, have a fleet of trucks,
and I do business with a lot of companies with
the same mission statement from day one, which is uniting
the culture and overcome a societal obstacles one cone at
(16:23):
a time.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Amazing, and these these cones are good America's absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Let me ask you, as someone who's launched this business,
being a black man in America. So many of the
businesses that black people start, brown people start, they.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Come up and then they fail. What have you done?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
What's your secret sauce for keeping this business alive and thriving?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
The secret sauce for keeping the business alive.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
And thriving, say the secret ice cream if we want
to call it.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, that's true. This is actually very important in your
personal life. Don't be afraid of what people think. How
I just mentioned the stores that I have. One of
them are failing. But that's okay. It's not a failure
Michael Jackson. I mean, Michael Jordan didn't make his high
school basketball team. Now when you think about basketball, you
(17:14):
think about Michael Jordan. I say that to say it's
okay to say this isn't working out. People ask me, oh,
how's it going with this? Oh it's going good, but
this store sucks. I'm going to close it. I'm going
to step back and back to that word re I'm
going to reform my business model. I'm going to rethink
what I'm doing and how can I make it work.
So I think the secret success is don't worry about
(17:36):
what other people think. Just keep pushing forward and just
keep trying to be creative.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
The current administration cited in a recent article I was
reading from CNN that they've seen unemployment rates drop significantly,
especially in the black community. Just from your assessment, being
someone who is working, someone who's launched a business, would
you attribute some of that too your ability to actually
(18:02):
launch a business and sustain it?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Honestly yes, because where are these statistics coming from? And
what do you count as unemployment? Because not for nothing.
Somebody could have a successful business on and up and
up that could be called unemployment. But really you're working
for yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
How do your experiences as a police officer and a
business owner intersect and inform each other?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
If at all people knowing the streets, knowing problems, knowing
when someone is angry, knowing when someone is not happy,
and have any ability to work under pressure, and I
think it's important to be in business able to work
under pressure. Everything is not going to go right, but
you have to maintain your composure and you have to
understand that if you pivot, you still can have a
(18:47):
light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
So we have entrepreneurship, we have criminal justice. As we
think about the next day after the election, we have
our president of the United States. What is your hope
or the criminal justice system and what is your hope
for small business owners?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
My hope for the criminal justice system is how government
is made up of the people. I hope that the
people that's in these positions, no matter which side you
voted for, just make sure that they're doing their job.
And if you do your job, you can't really go wrong.
Why I say that because there's guidelines with your jobs,
(19:26):
there's policies, there's expectations, and if you at least come
as close as you can to these policies and expectations
and this, oh, what do we do if this happen?
What do we do if that happen? I think that
it'll be a better all, a better overall outcome, and
I think everyone needs to hold everyone accountable for what's next.
I'm going to relate this to criminal justice. All of
(19:47):
the organizations that's for criminal justice, follow through and carry
out your mission statement, because we tend to lose our
mission as we go along and doing all of these
ventures and stuff. But if you're doing your mission statement
and your purpose, you can't fall off.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
So it's the idea because I know You've mentioned mission,
and you mentioned that you keep your mission very consistent
in your business, but you've also mentioned reform and the
importance of doing that. How do you straddle these two
things in between criminal justice and in between entrepreneurship.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
The destination can remain the same, but the goal to
get there can change.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I love it, okay, Dear America. Our show is really
about a series of love letters. That's why I think
of each episode as well love letters to America. What
is your love letter to the young black boy who
is saying I don't believe in voting. I don't believe
(20:43):
in the power of the vote, and so I'm going
to opt out as we approach November.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I'm going to steal this quote from one of our greats,
and you'll know who she is. And if you don't
look up the quote, be the change you wish to
see in the world.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Is that the love letter that you provide to yourself.
I'm wondering, have you been a bit down and out
on democracy at any point?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Absolutely? Currently I'm down and out. But I also understand
it's nice to have people as spokespeople for you, because
ultimately that's what politicians are. They're representatives of you. I
say this to say you can vote for whoever you want,
but if you're not living in your beliefs, things will
never be satisfying to you.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
My last question is on voting and just thinking about
everyone's always like your vote your voice.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Does that quote actually resonate with you?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Do you believe that voting is interconnected with your ability
to exercise your voice?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
And this is going to be an interesting question, and
I really have to tell the truth on this truth.
I'm doctor Jamark Chiles. I'm a police officer, I'm a professor.
I'm a successful business owner, and I don't think that
I need to vote. And I think that if someone
needs to come somewhere and get the population that feels
(22:03):
like me, because we're the ones that's lost. What do
you do when a successful black man doesn't want to vote?
What like do you do? Well?
Speaker 1 (22:10):
This is my question to you, if you had to
flip it, what do we do in order to talk
to you and get you to the polls?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I think you literally have to do something as simple
it's say hi and then start a conversation. Understand your needs,
Understand why you don't vote, Understand where you come from.
Understand that there's something I can do to get you
interested in this. And a lot of the times we
don't vote. And I'm not talking about me specifically, but
a lot of black men don't vote just because they
(22:42):
don't understand. A lot of people don't vote because they
don't understand. And no one have been able to answer
this question for me. Maybe you can Why should I vote?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Is it your thought that you believe the current candidates
that we have are not actually talking enough to the
black me.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Actually, I can say that, and I just want to
establish this. Understand what both stars are saying. I understand
what then I'll just say their names, what Donald Trump
is saying, and everybody concerns with what he's affiliated with
and the things that could potentially happen with rights and stuff,
but removing that from the situation and just speaking from
(23:21):
my perspective in America, I have mothers, i have sisters,
I have aunts. From my perspective, I'm just trying to
understand what can change in life that hasn't already happened.
I've seen a lot of presidents in my day, and
my life has been the same. The people around me
lives has been the same. And I think it's like
(23:43):
sad to say, but unless you see it, sometimes that's
when you think is real. So unfortunately, if I sit
here and don't vote and be unthinkable happens, that's when
people in my position that be like, oh, this is real,
and a lot of people can disagree with me. And
that's fine, that's right, that's right. That's just my personal
view and my perspective.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And I appreciate you feeling open and like the Dear
America Show is providing you that safe space. And with that,
this is and I'm gonna have you back on the
show after the election so we could.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Talk a bit more. Oh yeah, absolutely, But this.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Is the Dear America Show with Chanelle Barnes where we
are interviewing real people, capturing real voices, and telling real stories.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Absolutely,
Welcome to Dear America, where your voice matters and every
vote counts. Join us as we.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Explore the power of black and brown communities and shaping
our future.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
It's time to make your mark.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And be heard.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello America. This is Dear America with Chanelle Barnes, where
we are interviewing real people, capturing real voices, and telling
real stories. And I am here with someone who I
think I just we have a blast all the time.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's doctor Jamar Childs. Doctor Jamar. How are you today?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I'm well, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I've been waiting for this conversation that I didn't even
know we were going to have, but I'm happy we're
having it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Kay, respectfully, can you tell us a.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Little bit about your background and how it has shaped
who you are today and your overall perspective on America.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I think I have a very unique perspective in this
day and age. And what I mean by that is
I'm a black male and I'm also a police officer,
so I think that's very relevant in today's society. And
to add to that, I'm the product of a single
parent home of a black woman, right and I'm from that.
Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, and I'm from Nork, New Jersey. Okay,
(01:19):
So I say that to say all of the odds
could have been stacked against me, but I persevered, and
I took things that I love from people, and I
forgot the things that I didn't like.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Okay, I love that and shout out to Nork, New Jersey.
I'm also born and raised in New York, so it's good.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
To have Brick City in the house.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Now, you mentioned before we get into you being a
police officer, because I'm excited to get there. You mentioned
you are the child of a single mom, a black mom.
Can you just talk a little bit about that specific
experience and.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
How some of those memories you have led to where
you are absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Just a touch on from the beginning. I grew up
in a Weekway section that's the south side of like
North New Jersey, having a single parent home. My mom,
she was always working just to make ends meet. But luckily,
I want to touch on this early the village had
my grandma, had my aunts, I had grand great grandmothers,
(02:16):
and everybody that was just all entuned with making sure
you was doing the right thing. And I grew up
in a tom Fortunately, I was born in eighty nine
where if you did something outside the house, although there
was no cell phones, by the time you got home,
they already knew.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
What you did. They had their own solo phone. I
think that was even faster than our text messages.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yes, yes, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
And to touch on a single parent aspect, my mom
she instilled in me the importance of self, family, community, country,
and the world.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
What role did you feel like you needed to play
in your household as a growing black boy, you know,
with your mom?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
To be honest, my mom, my family very strong. They
allowed me to be a kid. And that's why when
I just sit here and I reflect, I can say
I enjoy my childhood. I was in a kid's place,
and that's why I can grow up and I can understand,
and I can have those mature conversations and I can
understand perspectives because when it was my time, I live
(03:22):
that time thoroughly, so I can move on to the
next level of thinking.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Right, So fast forward, you become a police officer. How
did we get there? How did we get to becoming
a police officer?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Honestly, a lot of people may share this story a
friend actually was passionate about being a police officer. They
just told me to join them, right and going to
the interview, and ironically enough, I got hired.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
They didn't Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Did they come back or oh yeah, yeah, they like
wund up coming back to like being law enforcement, but
they're no longer in law enforcement. Actually they're an educator now,
So that's actually pretty funny. But in terms of the
journey of law enforcement, when I first started the job,
it was just a job, and then as I continue
(04:12):
to dive into the job, more things occurred. Initially becoming
a police officer, again it was just a job. And
then I wound up going to school for my master's
in public administration, and then from there I started a
doctorate in a criminal justice. Because when everything started going
on in the world, I was like, you know what,
what if I can give two, well three different perspectives
(04:34):
a black man, practical knowledge and theoretical knowledge. My theoretical
was in the classroom, my practical was actually living it,
and the experience was a black man. So I felt
like my opinion became very unique out of anybody, because
it's easy to be on two sides talking from a
perspective but it's very rare to have someone that's living
it and they have a true perspective of what it
(04:56):
actually means to be a black man, what it means
to be a cop, what it means to be an educator.
The ones that create the policy that the cops have
filmed forced on the people that look like me. Everyone
don't get it twisted. But the issue is the people
that look like me currently in the society that we
live in.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Why is that? Why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
If I had that answer, I would be a trillionaire.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Okay, all right, I just said, well, when you get
that in Sower, you come back on the show.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And let we can tion yas. That's the point. Now,
Now let's go back.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So you become a police officer, and I know you
said that, you explored, you know, what it means to
be a black man a police officer. I want to
talk a little bit about racism. At what point did
you start to see an intersection in between criminal justice
and racism?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Hmmm, that's actually a very great question. I'll give a
personal example. This was before I became a police officer.
I actually wrote an article about this. I was a
writer for the Huffington Post. So I was under a
government column and I had wrote this article being a
black man in America, it's as close as it gets,
(06:10):
and knowing what it feels like to be white in America.
And I say that to say, there was two different
experiences and there was a duality going on. When I
was in my uniform, I'll go to stores the utmost respect, Hi, Hi,
how can I help you? And then I'll go to
that same store, same day without my uniform. And now
(06:30):
I was like, oh, what you need? And that right there,
I feel like speaks volumes about the experience and the
racism versus the system.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I've heard some people say, there's black, there's white, there's brown,
there's blue.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I think it's literally another mantra that people created not
to tackle the real issue that's going on, and that's
the issue of human nature. That's the issue of accountability.
That's the issue of bringing shame back into society. If
someone does something wrong, wrong is wrong and right is right.
You don't have to be a color to understand or
know that.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yep, I love that. So let's go back. We're a
mid COVID nineteen.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Everyone in America experiences what happened with George Floyd. Everyone
experiences what happened with brionn It's here. I mean, the
list obviously goes on during these moments. Do you how
do you reflect on your work as a police officer
and how do you just reflect on the work of
(07:33):
being someone who is in a position to protect the nation.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
To be honest, when I think about the situations that
people got in, although they were very unfortunate, we have
to put accountability on all angles. And it was like,
what can we do to minimize our interactions? And like
how can we be in that change?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Meaning like if the community as a whole have issues
with let's say law enforcement and the way it's ran.
And this comes down to everything. It comes down to
And it sounds like I'm jumping all over the place,
but follow me. Follow me. You literally have to be
responsible for the off elections, not like just the presidential years,
(08:18):
the ones that are going to represent you on a
day to day basis, the office that you can literally
walk into on a daily to say, hey, these are
my concerns. But not only that, you got to also
apply for your local police forces. If you don't like cops,
there's a reason why you don't like them, probably because
you don't like the culture of it. But you can
change the culture. Now, hear me out with the George
(08:40):
Floyd and the Breonna Taylor. If there were individuals from
that area that look like them, the interactions may have
been different. Of course, you have a job to do
and like law enforcement, but there's different levels and there's
different tiers of it, and if you understand a person's perspective,
you can tackle a situation differently. Someone once said, in
(09:01):
order to understand my way of thinking, you have to
be put in my position. So you figure, if someone
was relatable to George Floyd and they had a job
to do, they still could have approached them, and they
could have did what was necessary to get the job
done so that that man could walk away with his life.
But still, if he did commit a crime, be responsible
for his actions as well.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
You allude to something that I want to really break
down for our audience, because I don't think many people
understand it. You talk about the power of believing and
knowing that all politics are local. How exactly does someone's
vote impact how the police are shaped and what police
(09:41):
are actually representing them.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
How exactly does that happen?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Well, I can tell you this. I won't name specific towns,
but I could say this. Our chief directly has meetings
with the mayor. Okay, and that alone speaks volumes because
he's getting his direction from the mayor, and the mayor
want to appease the people. He's a voters. So if
your voters have a specific issue that they want to
tackle on, that's going to trickle down to the mayor.
(10:07):
From the mayor's going to go to the chief, then chief, captain, lieutenant, sergeants,
and the officers with the boots on the ground. So
the change starts at the top and it comes down
to the bottom. But everybody could be accountable because there's
definitely meetings and I've been a part of them. And
if you vote for your local politicians, you have to
tell them what you want to see. And trust me,
(10:27):
if they want to stay where they are, they'll do it.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
This is good.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Now I want to talk about the general movement of
you know, people thinking about defunding the police.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
What's your perspective on that movement?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Should?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I mean, obviously I know you're a police officer, but
have you had a thought on police being defunded the
movement being defunded.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Absolutely, And this is actually a great question, thank you.
And I've been waiting to answer this question on a
national level. Okay, I don't think it's a think of
the funding the police we should worry about. I think
that we should reallocate funds to where it's necessary. For example,
instead of spending more time on defensive tactics and fighting people,
(11:12):
let's spend time on verbal judo. So let's take our
resources and go towards Wait a minute, how do you
talk to people better? How can I relate to them?
We all have our implicit bias, we all have our schemas,
we all have our way of thinking. But if you
can be trained on wait a minute, this is their culture.
(11:32):
They're not really yelling at me. They just talk in
this tone in this culture. For example, I know the
Asian culture because I'm a college professor too. I had
an Asian student, and every time I talk to them,
they'll look down, and I'm like, wait a minute, are
they not paying attention to me? Then I talked to
one of my Asian colleagues and he said, no, And
our culture is respectful not to look in their.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Eyes, and you would have never known that if you
didn't exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So, in correlation to that, were enforcement. If you have
these trainings on how different cultures act in their social norms,
it might be a situation where wait a minute, they're
not getting aggressive. This is just where they're from, this
is what they know, this is how they communicate. But
I don't know that. But as a police officer, that's
(12:17):
a public position. So you it is your responsibility to
know the community you serve.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I wanted to get that a beat because I didn't
want to catch it. Oh yeah, no, no.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
How can we balance the need for police accountability with
the necessity of maintaining public safety.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
That's a very great question. I did my dissertation from
my doctorate on body worn cameras and privacy rights and
just to like correlate to that question. When it comes
to accountability, it's not just a camera that's gonna stop you.
It's gonna make you be mindful, you know what it is.
It's your peers that you're working with who has to
(12:58):
have that accountability. I think is that accountability factor that
all starts from Hey wait a minute, stop, and that
could stop a lifelong of trouble for everyone.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I was just reading an article with the New York Times,
and the article was talking about the fact that we
have these two presidential candidates who we need to assess,
who we need to vote on. But there has been
a glaring misstep in the lack of conversation around criminal
justice reform. What's your take on that should there is?
Do you feel like we've had enough conversation about this
(13:31):
and if not, where should the conversation be.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
So I don't think that we had enough conversation on it,
and I don't think we'll ever have enough. I think
the purpose of reform is to keep re r e redo, rename,
re establish, And as long as we're growing as a nation,
we're growing as people, we're constantly changing. That means our
laws and policies have to constantly change to govern us
(13:57):
because we're no longer the same people that we were
twenty years ago, thirty years ago. For example, the Department
of Homeland Security was founded at or around two thousand
and one. That was founded after the nine to eleven attacks.
Before that, you can go into the airport and pretty
much get a lot of things through, but things got stricter.
You know what they did, They did a reform of
(14:18):
their policy because they said, wait a minute, things are
going on that shouldn't happen. Innocent people are getting hurt.
We need to step back and take a look at
this and reform. And I think that the same should
be treated with the criminal justice system. Let's reform and
let's redo things so that it can accomplish a goal
of making sure that we are all on one page.
And you can't please everybody, but that's why there's a
(14:40):
such thing called the majority.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
But I think you've got something that does please most people,
and that's your business with urban cone. Tell us about
urban cone, tell us about the ice cream. I think
most people love ice siden rsolutely, or at least I did.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah. Absolutely, that's actually a great transition, and how to
make it relevant to criminal justice. The mission state is
uniting the culture and overcoming societal obstacles one cone at
a time. Everybody loved sugar, everybody loves sweets, and a
lot of times when you think of a good time
during your childhood, ice cream is involved somehow, somehow, ironically enough,
(15:18):
during like COVID, that's when all of the protests were
going on, the world was shut down. People were more
in tune with politics and protests more than ever in
my opinion, And at the time I was looking for
a business to start and during COVID absolutely I didn't know, absolutely,
and naturally I fell into ice cream because I wanted
(15:40):
to think of something that would unite people for a
better cause, better meaning the sense of getting together, happy
and talking about how can we make a change as
opposed to our differences. Me being a cop, me being black,
me being in a community. I thought of something, how
can we unite people? And I said, oh, let's do
ice cream. So we had a lot of ice cream
(16:01):
socials with like police departments and the public and politicians,
and everyone was coming together with ice cream. The business
model wound up taking off, wound up growing. I was
able to grow into multiple stores, have a fleet of trucks,
and I do business with a lot of companies with
the same mission statement from day one, which is uniting
the culture and overcome a societal obstacles one cone at
(16:23):
a time.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Amazing, and these these cones are good America's absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Let me ask you, as someone who's launched this business,
being a black man in America. So many of the
businesses that black people start, brown people start, they.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Come up and then they fail. What have you done?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
What's your secret sauce for keeping this business alive and thriving?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
The secret sauce for keeping the business alive.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
And thriving, say the secret ice cream if we want
to call it.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, that's true. This is actually very important in your
personal life. Don't be afraid of what people think. How
I just mentioned the stores that I have. One of
them are failing. But that's okay. It's not a failure
Michael Jackson. I mean, Michael Jordan didn't make his high
school basketball team. Now when you think about basketball, you
(17:14):
think about Michael Jordan. I say that to say it's
okay to say this isn't working out. People ask me, oh,
how's it going with this? Oh it's going good, but
this store sucks. I'm going to close it. I'm going
to step back and back to that word re I'm
going to reform my business model. I'm going to rethink
what I'm doing and how can I make it work.
So I think the secret success is don't worry about
(17:36):
what other people think. Just keep pushing forward and just
keep trying to be creative.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
The current administration cited in a recent article I was
reading from CNN that they've seen unemployment rates drop significantly,
especially in the black community. Just from your assessment, being
someone who is working, someone who's launched a business, would
you attribute some of that too your ability to actually
(18:02):
launch a business and sustain it?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Honestly yes, because where are these statistics coming from? And
what do you count as unemployment? Because not for nothing.
Somebody could have a successful business on and up and
up that could be called unemployment. But really you're working
for yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
How do your experiences as a police officer and a
business owner intersect and inform each other?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
If at all people knowing the streets, knowing problems, knowing
when someone is angry, knowing when someone is not happy,
and have any ability to work under pressure, and I
think it's important to be in business able to work
under pressure. Everything is not going to go right, but
you have to maintain your composure and you have to
understand that if you pivot, you still can have a
(18:47):
light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
So we have entrepreneurship, we have criminal justice. As we
think about the next day after the election, we have
our president of the United States. What is your hope
or the criminal justice system and what is your hope
for small business owners?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
My hope for the criminal justice system is how government
is made up of the people. I hope that the
people that's in these positions, no matter which side you
voted for, just make sure that they're doing their job.
And if you do your job, you can't really go wrong.
Why I say that because there's guidelines with your jobs,
(19:26):
there's policies, there's expectations, and if you at least come
as close as you can to these policies and expectations
and this, oh, what do we do if this happen?
What do we do if that happen? I think that
it'll be a better all, a better overall outcome, and
I think everyone needs to hold everyone accountable for what's next.
I'm going to relate this to criminal justice. All of
(19:47):
the organizations that's for criminal justice, follow through and carry
out your mission statement, because we tend to lose our
mission as we go along and doing all of these
ventures and stuff. But if you're doing your mission statement
and your purpose, you can't fall off.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
So it's the idea because I know You've mentioned mission,
and you mentioned that you keep your mission very consistent
in your business, but you've also mentioned reform and the
importance of doing that. How do you straddle these two
things in between criminal justice and in between entrepreneurship.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
The destination can remain the same, but the goal to
get there can change.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I love it, okay, Dear America. Our show is really
about a series of love letters. That's why I think
of each episode as well love letters to America. What
is your love letter to the young black boy who
is saying I don't believe in voting. I don't believe
(20:43):
in the power of the vote, and so I'm going
to opt out as we approach November.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I'm going to steal this quote from one of our greats,
and you'll know who she is. And if you don't
look up the quote, be the change you wish to
see in the world.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Is that the love letter that you provide to yourself.
I'm wondering, have you been a bit down and out
on democracy at any point?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Absolutely? Currently I'm down and out. But I also understand
it's nice to have people as spokespeople for you, because
ultimately that's what politicians are. They're representatives of you. I
say this to say you can vote for whoever you want,
but if you're not living in your beliefs, things will
never be satisfying to you.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
My last question is on voting and just thinking about
everyone's always like your vote your voice.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Does that quote actually resonate with you?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Do you believe that voting is interconnected with your ability
to exercise your voice?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
And this is going to be an interesting question, and
I really have to tell the truth on this truth.
I'm doctor Jamark Chiles. I'm a police officer, I'm a professor.
I'm a successful business owner, and I don't think that
I need to vote. And I think that if someone
needs to come somewhere and get the population that feels
(22:03):
like me, because we're the ones that's lost. What do
you do when a successful black man doesn't want to vote?
What like do you do? Well?
Speaker 1 (22:10):
This is my question to you, if you had to
flip it, what do we do in order to talk
to you and get you to the polls?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I think you literally have to do something as simple
it's say hi and then start a conversation. Understand your needs,
Understand why you don't vote, Understand where you come from.
Understand that there's something I can do to get you
interested in this. And a lot of the times we
don't vote. And I'm not talking about me specifically, but
a lot of black men don't vote just because they
(22:42):
don't understand. A lot of people don't vote because they
don't understand. And no one have been able to answer
this question for me. Maybe you can Why should I vote?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Is it your thought that you believe the current candidates
that we have are not actually talking enough to the
black me.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Actually, I can say that, and I just want to
establish this. Understand what both stars are saying. I understand
what then I'll just say their names, what Donald Trump
is saying, and everybody concerns with what he's affiliated with
and the things that could potentially happen with rights and stuff,
but removing that from the situation and just speaking from
(23:21):
my perspective in America, I have mothers, i have sisters,
I have aunts. From my perspective, I'm just trying to
understand what can change in life that hasn't already happened.
I've seen a lot of presidents in my day, and
my life has been the same. The people around me
lives has been the same. And I think it's like
(23:43):
sad to say, but unless you see it, sometimes that's
when you think is real. So unfortunately, if I sit
here and don't vote and be unthinkable happens, that's when
people in my position that be like, oh, this is real,
and a lot of people can disagree with me. And
that's fine, that's right, that's right. That's just my personal
view and my perspective.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And I appreciate you feeling open and like the Dear
America Show is providing you that safe space. And with that,
this is and I'm gonna have you back on the
show after the election so we could.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Talk a bit more. Oh yeah, absolutely, But this.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Is the Dear America Show with Chanelle Barnes where we
are interviewing real people, capturing real voices, and telling real stories.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Absolutely,
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