Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Dear America, where your voice matters and every
vote counts. Join us as we explore the power of
black and brown communities and shaping our future. It's time
to make your mark and be heard.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello America.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
This is Chanelle Barnes with the Dear America Show, where
we are interviewing real people, capturing real voices, and telling
real stories. I am joined here today with gold Star mother,
Miss Hope Hollinsworth KOKEX, and we're so honored and happy
to have you here today.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
I am as well honored to be here and thank
you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Absolutely absolutely, Miss Hope, thank you for sharing your story
with us today. Could you start by telling us a
bit about your son, Staff Sergeant Courtney Hollinsworth.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Oh, this is a hard one, well not hard, but
he joined the military at the age of seventeen. He
needed my permission and my husband's permission, and I did
not want my son to join the military, but I
believe that that was his purpose in life. So it
took us about two weeks before we finally made the decision,
(01:15):
and you know, we we let him join. But he
was always the type of child that was not into exercising.
He didn't run, He didn't do any type of exercise.
I remember he tried out for baseball team and he
didn't make it because he could not keep up. Oh,
he wanted the military. He wanted the military. He actually
(01:37):
went and he went to the recruitment office himself, and
because he was seventeen, they had to come and, you know,
get our permission. But he was a very caring, loving soul,
cared about people, He cared about his family. He loved
to eat. Yes, he loved to cook. Favorite food. Favorite
(01:58):
food probably would be chicken salad, believe it or not,
chicken salad and cabbage. Okay, my mother in law used
to make him cabbage and he loved cabbage. And he
loved sweets. Loved sweets. He was just a very fun
loving individual, very fun loving and very family oriented.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Now I noticed you you're speaking about him in the
past tense. Yes, Can you tell us a little bit
about that.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
After he was he was in the military, he was
signed up for three years. My son re upped for
another three years and then another three years and that
is when Operation Iraqi Freedom took place and my son
was involved in the conflict. And this was probably his
ninth year that he was in the service. Ninth year, Yes,
(02:46):
because he, like I said, three six and then nine.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I want to just take a moment to thank him
so much for his service.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yes, absolutely, I thank you, thank you so much. And
he after the ninth year Rasi and Iraqi freedom. Unfortunately,
he was killed in Baghdad. During that time he was
and that's when he became a staff sergeant. He wasn't
actually supposed to be out during this particular time, but
(03:14):
he said he wanted to go out, and unfortunately he
lost his life.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
When you say he wanted to go out, tell me,
can you tell us what that means?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
I guess they're given certain assignments. And his assignment at
first was like a booth that you're in and sort
of protecting the camp that you're at. But he was
asked if he wanted to go out into the field.
He had been out into the field. My son had
(03:42):
been to Germany, he had been to Afghanistan. He had
fought in Germany, he had fought in Afghanistan. But this
particular time they did ask him if he wanted to
go out into the field, and he did. He went
out into the field and he was killed.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, that's unimaginable. It if you feel comfortable, can you
take us to the moment where you and you mentioned
your husband? Yes, were you and your husband received the news?
Speaker 4 (04:16):
We were? I? Yeah. It was on a Sunday. I
had just gotten home from church. I remember that there
was a book my son had, like a journal, and
I remember seeing his Social Security card on his bedroom floor,
and I it was weird. It wasn't something that, you know.
I just didn't know where it had come from, and
(04:37):
I figured maybe it fell out of his journal. Went
to watching a show and Red Run had a show
on at this time, and then I went downstairs started cooking,
and I remember that we had this like stained glass
window in our house and the sun was shining through.
(04:59):
It was a beautiful day. And my doorbell rang and
I remember seeing a dark blue sedan parked outside and
two men were standing at my door.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Did you when you saw that, did you have a
did you have a feeling in it?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Or Okay, no feeling. I did not initially think of that,
but once I opened the door and I realized that
one of the gentlemen was a priest. But my thought
was he must have gotten hurt. Okay, he must be
in the hospital. Never did I think that they would be,
(05:37):
you know, giving me that news. Absolutely, and they give
it to you just like you see it in the movies. Wow,
just like you were. You know, we're here and we're
sorry to inform you, and that was devastating. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Can you talk to us a little bit about your
journey with grief, your journey with laws.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
So you know they when you are grieving, they always
tell you that there's twelve steps.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (06:06):
No? Okay, I mean maybe for some people, but not
for me. I don't look at it as I'm angry,
so this must be step five, or I'm emotional, so
this has to be step ten. I didn't look at
it as that way. Grief is just what it is.
Grief is with you from day one until the day
(06:29):
you die. It is every day, every hour, every second,
every song, every memory, every birthday, every anniversary of his death.
Grief is with you every single day. You just have
to find a way to move on. But grief is
(06:49):
with you. Depression is with you, yes, always, because there's
a constant feeling of loss. There's someone who isn't there anymore,
no longer has her brother in the physical sense.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And you have you had a son and a do.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
I have a daughter?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah? And you know for grandparents and for his father
and his aunt and his uncle. He was he was
very much a family oriented person. So but you know,
not having him here, you feel that every day. So
you feel that grief every day because that person is
not there with you no longer in that physical sense.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I went to there's an organization called Imagine, and they
focused on supporting parents and children who are grieving the
loss of a parent. And in the session, the grief
counselor said that you can be grieving the loss of
someone and you can be happy at the same time.
(07:50):
She was saying, sometimes some people feel guilty about having
that joined emotional experience.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah? Long time. I mean for me, it was like
I don't know if I should laugh, I don't know
if I should be having fun. I don't know if
I should be celebrating, you know, birthdays with other people.
I don't know if we should be going out to
dinner and comedy. There was just and it is that
feeling of grief how I mean, guilt, how dare you
be given life and you're enjoying life and you no
(08:24):
longer have your son? How do you balance those things?
But I realized too that life does go on. Life
goes on. For a while, every woman was like, oh,
you know, you should go to a therapist, you should
go to counseling.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Talk to me, Ah, so open, you know, And it's
always the people that tell you this are the people.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Who not have never experienced what you're going through. And
there were, I mean there were moments. I mean even
my husband. My husband would grew in our backyard or
in his car because he didn't want me to have
to see that, and then you know it would be
like me now grieving with him. But yeah, you should
(09:12):
go to therapy. And I used to say, what is
it for me? Again? I mean, for some people therapy
is great, but for me, it just wasn't gonna work
because in my mind, I kept thinking, what is a
therapist going to say to me about something that they
know nothing about? Like you know nothing about what I'm experiencing.
(09:34):
I'm just unloading onto you what my feelings are. And
I can do that with my family members. I could
do that in my car. I can do that in
other ways where I just don't have to sit here
and speak to you and talk to you about something
that you know nothing about.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Sure, And you know I was gonna ask you if
you could describe a little bit of your support system,
how were you able to lean on people, if at all?
Because I wonder, I've never been through what you've been through.
I have three children, and with my partner we have six.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
We have nine together. I cannot yes.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yes, okay, I was trying to just graze over there.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Look, but I can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
If I were to put a thought to it, I'd
imagine it would be a lonely journey.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Or?
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Oh? Very much? So very much so. I think the
first couple of months, I felt like I was standing
on on a corner and there was nothing else around me,
although people were moving around me, But in my mind
I kept thinking, don't you know that I lost my son?
Don't you know that he's gone and that I'll never
(10:54):
have him back again. And I always used to get people,
especially like my neighbors, so strong, you were so strong
if that were me, and I just look at them
and say, you strength, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And it's not you.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
No, when I go into this house, I'm gonna break
down just because you said that. But I also don't
want people to forget. So that's my other thing. I
don't want people to forget. So when people talk about
my son, it's okay. Yeah, I might cry, I might
break down, I might have several emotions that will come
(11:33):
to the surface, but that's my way. Yeah, you're gonna
remember who he was.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I want to get into how you honor your son's
legacy before I get there the way you lost your son.
There are moms out there who may have lost their
sons or daughters a similar way. There are moms and
fathers out there that may have lost their children in
different ways. What advice do you give to them, if any,
about how they can get their relationship, the relationship that
(12:02):
they have with their spouse strong, amid such a great loss.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
So, and you're right, there are parents or mothers out
there who have lost a child under various circumstances. I
actually started a group with another woman in the city
that I live in, and it was our way to
support one another because we know what you're going through.
We know when that birthday arrives or that anniversary arrives
(12:31):
what you're feeling. But I think the best way for people,
and especially in a relationship, is that you do have
to open up. You do have to share, You do
have to tell what you're feeling that day. And like
I said, for a long time, my husband would go
into the car or to the our backyard and my
daughter would grieve in her own way. And I think
(12:52):
sometimes people forget that is the siblings. The siblings are
grieving to absolutely, but I think you have to open
up and you have to show share, and I think
you have to remember together. You know, you remember together.
So my support system has always been, like, my husband
is my backbone. My daughter, Yeah, shout out to the hobby,
(13:13):
shout out to the hobby.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yes, we need a supportive hobby.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
He is so supportive in everything that I do. My
daughter is very supportive. My sister and my brother in
law very very supportive. My dad, my mom, who is
still alive by the grace of God, they're all very supportive.
And my church family, my church family has always been
very supportive and they remember him in so many different ways.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And I want to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Tell us a little bit about how you keep his
memorial life.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So for me, I mean initially it started out, you know,
with the military, of course, because he was a veteran.
So a lot of things that I've done, I've done
through the military. You know, we started doing Valentine's Day
care drives with the younger's public school system. Yes, so
we would love the kids would and they were so excited,
the kids would be so excited to you know, write
(14:08):
Valentine's Day cards. But that was you know, in honor
of him. County tide drives I've done in his name.
We have a street renamed after him. He has a gym,
the street, the street is in named after him. There's
a gym in El Paso, Texas that is named after him,
(14:30):
and a building in Texas that's named after him. Yes, yes, yes, love.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But I love it.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
I love it firstborn. And we just make sure, like
I make sure that everything that I do, even this,
it is an opportunity for me to tell people about
who he was and just for people to remember who
he was and the sacrifice that he made.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
You you've spoken about how his death propelled you in
the service. You cited a little bit of some of
the ways that you've served. Can you share more about
additional ways that you've been able to make a positive
impact in his honor?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, we of course, I work for a government office.
I'm not going to say where, but I work for
a government office. But you know, often I get the
opportunity to go out and I speak to young people,
and most of the times it is about you know,
who I am and why I've gotten, you know, started
in writing. So I've done writing workshops with young people
(15:25):
and giving them the opportunity to express their emotions and
feelings and to go into depth about, you know, things
that may be bothering them. And then other ways it's
just again working with the veterans and working with my
military family and writing. Writing has always been I'll say
my therapy, my form of therapy, okay, is giving me
(15:47):
an opportunity to kind of, I guess, take myself out
of what I was going through and then to write
about things that I thought were important, you know, in
my community.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And therapy comes in so many different ways. It doesn't
have to be that you talk to someone directly who
is a licensed therapist. It sounds like you've engaged in writing,
You've leveraged your support system, and you've made sure that
every place you go you can honor your son the
way that feels good for you.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Definitely, yes, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Definitely.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
As you've met other people who have lost children, how
do you try to support them amid their own their grief.
You mentioned that you have a woman who you work with,
but also, I want to take it a step further.
Does that become taxing for you?
Speaker 4 (16:35):
I think it's the beginning. It did, But I think again,
when you're around a group of women who understand you
not only support them, but they support you. Every year
we do this butterfly I release ceremony and yeah, we
have about maybe twenty thirty women that unfortunately have lost
(16:57):
a child. We include the families of course, and we
release butterflies in their honor, and every year we do
this amazing, every single year we do this.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
What time of year are you doing it?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
We usually do it during the spring, in April or May,
and it's really an opportunity for us to again just
to show our support and making sure that people remember
our children.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I love it now.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I mentioned at the top of our time together that
you are a gold star mother. Can you talk to
us about what it means to be a gold Star mother.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
It's not a group that I want to belong to. Okay, yeah,
not a group that I want to belong to. But
I am here. I'm here. I have no other choice.
When they first, of course, when my son was killed,
they tell you about gold Star moms and what it means,
and it's service. It's service to your country. You served
(17:51):
with your children as well, You served as emotional support
with your children.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Did you know that walking in like, had you thought
about it in that way?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Never? I didn't think about it.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I never heard it frame that way before.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
No, I didn't think about it in that way at
the moment while I was in it. But now I
know that's what I did. I served, We served, My
family served with him. We didn't fight, we weren't in
conflict a conflict, but we served with him. You know, emotionally,
we served with him because a lot my son went
through a lot while he was in the military, So
(18:25):
we served with him in that aspect. But it's you know,
as far as like, how do I support someone else?
You know, I had people. I had a young lady
who's a friend of mine. Her daughter was killed, not
in the service. It was under you know, other circumstances,
and she asked me at her daughter's service, how do
(18:46):
I go on? What is it that I have to do? And,
to be honest with you, I didn't have an answer
for her.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
I just told her. I hugged her and I told
her I was there for her. Sometimes people just want
you to listen. That's right, That is it. That's right,
that's it.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well, you've got me listening. That's good.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I'm ready to listen from what you described as a
gold star mother, which I know you said you don't
want to necessarily be that you've made the ultimate sacrifice
for the country. How does it feel at this stage
seeing America be so divided?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
How does that feel for you?
Speaker 4 (19:27):
So in this organization, you have many women, you have
women like myself, Brown women, and you have women of
other races and nationalities. I've seen a lot, I've read
a lot, and it is disturbing. It's disturbing because my
(19:48):
son didn't fight just for black and brown. My son
for it for everybody. And when I see the division,
it's almost as if I have some anger. I have
some anger because I wish it wasn't that way, But
I know that it's important for me to make sure
(20:11):
that people understand that, regardless of the circumstances, we can't
think that way. We cannot think that way. I'm proud
of my son, I'm proud of the service, and I'm
proud of what he decided to do for this country,
but I am disturbed and angered by the division very much.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So, Yes, thank you for sharing that Mishope. As we
head into the election season, what message do you want
to send to voters about the importance of honoring our
veterans and military families through the policies we need to support.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Yeah, I think it's important that we look at what
the policies are the best candidate who is touching on
those policies. Our veterans are individuals who have and who
continuously do. They're sacrificing their lives, They're giving their all.
(21:12):
They have an oath that they live up to, and
to be honest, as politicians, we should live up or
they should live up to the oath in their office
that they're in. Democracy is at the top, it's at
the forefront. We have to think about what our veterans
do and what they've given up and just in general.
(21:34):
As you know, veterans who came back during a time
where they were looked as nothing, they weren't given anything.
We have to think about veterans when it comes to housing,
when it comes to medical, employment, employment, there's so many
different things that you know, we should and veterans, to me, honestly,
(21:56):
they should be paid more than I'm sorry to say athletes.
Veterans and they're first and they're not. But we have
to really, you know, we have to take care of
our veterans. They're suffering, so we have to take care
of them. There's so much more that we can do.
And I think that when it comes to the policies
(22:18):
that we have to think about making sure that we
take care of our veterans.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
From what I gather after reviewing your bio, you're a writer,
a director, a producer. Can you tell us a little
bit about your journey to becoming those things? What it's
been like for you?
Speaker 4 (22:35):
So again, I mean, writing wasn't something that came naturally
to me. It was purpose. You know, people say that
your pain produces purpose, and that's what happened for me.
So writing again was like therapy. It was therapy because
it removed me from whatever I was going through, and
(22:55):
it gave me an opportunity to create. And I think
that's for most people. You know, when you talk about
pain and purpose, I mean, if you are going through
a lot in your life, there's something that comes out
of that. Right, And of course this is the most devastating.
They say that losing a child is an outer order death,
(23:18):
and it is. It's an outer order death. But writing
just gave me an opportunity to create, sure, and it
really gave me a voice, because, believe it or not,
I would have never seen myself in the position that
I'm in now as a writer or even you know,
being interviewed or on TV. These are not things that
(23:38):
I saw myself doing.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Right, absolutely, and then just you know, wrapping up you've
made you're making all of these contributions to our nation
through your writing, through production, through your service, through the
commitment that you've made with your son.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
How can the nation better support you?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
I think just by remembering, paying attention to what is
happening in our country, being more empathetic and thinking about
being fair equality, and just again remembering who these young
(24:19):
souls were, not necessarily how they died, but remember who
they were before they died.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Absolutely, yeah, I love that, and I just want to
thank you Missole for your honesty and your candor with
me today.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
How can our.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Audience learn more about your work, the cause you're supporting,
and just get involved in honoring you and other goals
our families.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
So again, I'm in yonkers, Okay, h h yonkers, i'moners.
Really honestly, I always tell people you could just google my.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
That's what I did.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yeah, you can google my name. You know, I'm on Facebook,
I'm on Instagram. You know, I have some films that
are out there. I've actually I did a documentary on
you know, moms who had lost a child.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Amazing.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
It's just you know, you could just google me. You
can google me, and it's a very easy way to
find me. Yes, very easy way to find me.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Well, we love it and just for the audience to know,
that's exactly how we found this.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
So just google her and with that, this.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Is the Dear America Show with Chanelle Barnes, where we
are interviewing real people and capturing real stories and real voices.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
I so appreciate that. Thank you, of course,
Welcome to Dear America, where your voice matters and every
vote counts. Join us as we explore the power of
black and brown communities and shaping our future. It's time
to make your mark and be heard.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello America.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
This is Chanelle Barnes with the Dear America Show, where
we are interviewing real people, capturing real voices, and telling
real stories. I am joined here today with gold Star mother,
Miss Hope Hollinsworth KOKEX, and we're so honored and happy
to have you here today.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
I am as well honored to be here and thank
you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Absolutely absolutely, Miss Hope, thank you for sharing your story
with us today. Could you start by telling us a
bit about your son, Staff Sergeant Courtney Hollinsworth.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Oh, this is a hard one, well not hard, but
he joined the military at the age of seventeen. He
needed my permission and my husband's permission, and I did
not want my son to join the military, but I
believe that that was his purpose in life. So it
took us about two weeks before we finally made the decision,
(01:15):
and you know, we we let him join. But he
was always the type of child that was not into exercising.
He didn't run, He didn't do any type of exercise.
I remember he tried out for baseball team and he
didn't make it because he could not keep up. Oh,
he wanted the military. He wanted the military. He actually
(01:37):
went and he went to the recruitment office himself, and
because he was seventeen, they had to come and, you know,
get our permission. But he was a very caring, loving soul,
cared about people, He cared about his family. He loved
to eat. Yes, he loved to cook. Favorite food. Favorite
(01:58):
food probably would be chicken salad, believe it or not,
chicken salad and cabbage. Okay, my mother in law used
to make him cabbage and he loved cabbage. And he
loved sweets. Loved sweets. He was just a very fun
loving individual, very fun loving and very family oriented.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Now I noticed you you're speaking about him in the
past tense. Yes, Can you tell us a little bit
about that.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
After he was he was in the military, he was
signed up for three years. My son re upped for
another three years and then another three years and that
is when Operation Iraqi Freedom took place and my son
was involved in the conflict. And this was probably his
ninth year that he was in the service. Ninth year, Yes,
(02:46):
because he, like I said, three six and then nine.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I want to just take a moment to thank him
so much for his service.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yes, absolutely, I thank you, thank you so much. And
he after the ninth year Rasi and Iraqi freedom. Unfortunately,
he was killed in Baghdad. During that time he was
and that's when he became a staff sergeant. He wasn't
actually supposed to be out during this particular time, but
(03:14):
he said he wanted to go out, and unfortunately he
lost his life.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
When you say he wanted to go out, tell me,
can you tell us what that means?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
I guess they're given certain assignments. And his assignment at
first was like a booth that you're in and sort
of protecting the camp that you're at. But he was
asked if he wanted to go out into the field.
He had been out into the field. My son had
(03:42):
been to Germany, he had been to Afghanistan. He had
fought in Germany, he had fought in Afghanistan. But this
particular time they did ask him if he wanted to
go out into the field, and he did. He went
out into the field and he was killed.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, that's unimaginable. It if you feel comfortable, can you
take us to the moment where you and you mentioned
your husband? Yes, were you and your husband received the news?
Speaker 4 (04:16):
We were? I? Yeah. It was on a Sunday. I
had just gotten home from church. I remember that there
was a book my son had, like a journal, and
I remember seeing his Social Security card on his bedroom floor,
and I it was weird. It wasn't something that, you know.
I just didn't know where it had come from, and
(04:37):
I figured maybe it fell out of his journal. Went
to watching a show and Red Run had a show
on at this time, and then I went downstairs started cooking,
and I remember that we had this like stained glass
window in our house and the sun was shining through.
(04:59):
It was a beautiful day. And my doorbell rang and
I remember seeing a dark blue sedan parked outside and
two men were standing at my door.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Did you when you saw that, did you have a
did you have a feeling in it?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Or Okay, no feeling. I did not initially think of that,
but once I opened the door and I realized that
one of the gentlemen was a priest. But my thought
was he must have gotten hurt. Okay, he must be
in the hospital. Never did I think that they would be,
(05:37):
you know, giving me that news. Absolutely, and they give
it to you just like you see it in the movies. Wow,
just like you were. You know, we're here and we're
sorry to inform you, and that was devastating. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Can you talk to us a little bit about your
journey with grief, your journey with laws.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
So you know they when you are grieving, they always
tell you that there's twelve steps.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (06:06):
No? Okay, I mean maybe for some people, but not
for me. I don't look at it as I'm angry,
so this must be step five, or I'm emotional, so
this has to be step ten. I didn't look at
it as that way. Grief is just what it is.
Grief is with you from day one until the day
(06:29):
you die. It is every day, every hour, every second,
every song, every memory, every birthday, every anniversary of his death.
Grief is with you every single day. You just have
to find a way to move on. But grief is
(06:49):
with you. Depression is with you, yes, always, because there's
a constant feeling of loss. There's someone who isn't there anymore,
no longer has her brother in the physical sense.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And you have you had a son and a do.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
I have a daughter?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah? And you know for grandparents and for his father
and his aunt and his uncle. He was he was
very much a family oriented person. So but you know,
not having him here, you feel that every day. So
you feel that grief every day because that person is
not there with you no longer in that physical sense.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I went to there's an organization called Imagine, and they
focused on supporting parents and children who are grieving the
loss of a parent. And in the session, the grief
counselor said that you can be grieving the loss of
someone and you can be happy at the same time.
(07:50):
She was saying, sometimes some people feel guilty about having
that joined emotional experience.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah? Long time. I mean for me, it was like
I don't know if I should laugh, I don't know
if I should be having fun. I don't know if
I should be celebrating, you know, birthdays with other people.
I don't know if we should be going out to
dinner and comedy. There was just and it is that
feeling of grief how I mean, guilt, how dare you
be given life and you're enjoying life and you no
(08:24):
longer have your son? How do you balance those things?
But I realized too that life does go on. Life
goes on. For a while, every woman was like, oh,
you know, you should go to a therapist, you should
go to counseling.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Talk to me, Ah, so open, you know, And it's
always the people that tell you this are the people.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Who not have never experienced what you're going through. And
there were, I mean there were moments. I mean even
my husband. My husband would grew in our backyard or
in his car because he didn't want me to have
to see that, and then you know it would be
like me now grieving with him. But yeah, you should
(09:12):
go to therapy. And I used to say, what is
it for me? Again? I mean, for some people therapy
is great, but for me, it just wasn't gonna work
because in my mind, I kept thinking, what is a
therapist going to say to me about something that they
know nothing about? Like you know nothing about what I'm experiencing.
(09:34):
I'm just unloading onto you what my feelings are. And
I can do that with my family members. I could
do that in my car. I can do that in
other ways where I just don't have to sit here
and speak to you and talk to you about something
that you know nothing about.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Sure, And you know I was gonna ask you if
you could describe a little bit of your support system,
how were you able to lean on people, if at all?
Because I wonder, I've never been through what you've been through.
I have three children, and with my partner we have six.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
We have nine together. I cannot yes.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yes, okay, I was trying to just graze over there.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Look, but I can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
If I were to put a thought to it, I'd
imagine it would be a lonely journey.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Or?
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Oh? Very much? So very much so. I think the
first couple of months, I felt like I was standing
on on a corner and there was nothing else around me,
although people were moving around me, But in my mind
I kept thinking, don't you know that I lost my son?
Don't you know that he's gone and that I'll never
(10:54):
have him back again. And I always used to get people,
especially like my neighbors, so strong, you were so strong
if that were me, and I just look at them
and say, you strength, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And it's not you.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
No, when I go into this house, I'm gonna break
down just because you said that. But I also don't
want people to forget. So that's my other thing. I
don't want people to forget. So when people talk about
my son, it's okay. Yeah, I might cry, I might
break down, I might have several emotions that will come
(11:33):
to the surface, but that's my way. Yeah, you're gonna
remember who he was.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I want to get into how you honor your son's
legacy before I get there the way you lost your son.
There are moms out there who may have lost their
sons or daughters a similar way. There are moms and
fathers out there that may have lost their children in
different ways. What advice do you give to them, if any,
about how they can get their relationship, the relationship that
(12:02):
they have with their spouse strong, amid such a great loss.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
So, and you're right, there are parents or mothers out
there who have lost a child under various circumstances. I
actually started a group with another woman in the city
that I live in, and it was our way to
support one another because we know what you're going through.
We know when that birthday arrives or that anniversary arrives
(12:31):
what you're feeling. But I think the best way for people,
and especially in a relationship, is that you do have
to open up. You do have to share, You do
have to tell what you're feeling that day. And like
I said, for a long time, my husband would go
into the car or to the our backyard and my
daughter would grieve in her own way. And I think
(12:52):
sometimes people forget that is the siblings. The siblings are
grieving to absolutely, but I think you have to open
up and you have to show share, and I think
you have to remember together. You know, you remember together.
So my support system has always been, like, my husband
is my backbone. My daughter, Yeah, shout out to the hobby,
(13:13):
shout out to the hobby.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yes, we need a supportive hobby.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
He is so supportive in everything that I do. My
daughter is very supportive. My sister and my brother in
law very very supportive. My dad, my mom, who is
still alive by the grace of God, they're all very supportive.
And my church family, my church family has always been
very supportive and they remember him in so many different ways.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And I want to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Tell us a little bit about how you keep his
memorial life.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So for me, I mean initially it started out, you know,
with the military, of course, because he was a veteran.
So a lot of things that I've done, I've done
through the military. You know, we started doing Valentine's Day
care drives with the younger's public school system. Yes, so
we would love the kids would and they were so excited,
the kids would be so excited to you know, write
(14:08):
Valentine's Day cards. But that was you know, in honor
of him. County tide drives I've done in his name.
We have a street renamed after him. He has a gym,
the street, the street is in named after him. There's
a gym in El Paso, Texas that is named after him,
(14:30):
and a building in Texas that's named after him. Yes, yes, yes, love.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But I love it.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
I love it firstborn. And we just make sure, like
I make sure that everything that I do, even this,
it is an opportunity for me to tell people about
who he was and just for people to remember who
he was and the sacrifice that he made.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
You you've spoken about how his death propelled you in
the service. You cited a little bit of some of
the ways that you've served. Can you share more about
additional ways that you've been able to make a positive
impact in his honor?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, we of course, I work for a government office.
I'm not going to say where, but I work for
a government office. But you know, often I get the
opportunity to go out and I speak to young people,
and most of the times it is about you know,
who I am and why I've gotten, you know, started
in writing. So I've done writing workshops with young people
(15:25):
and giving them the opportunity to express their emotions and
feelings and to go into depth about, you know, things
that may be bothering them. And then other ways it's
just again working with the veterans and working with my
military family and writing. Writing has always been I'll say
my therapy, my form of therapy, okay, is giving me
(15:47):
an opportunity to kind of, I guess, take myself out
of what I was going through and then to write
about things that I thought were important, you know, in
my community.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And therapy comes in so many different ways. It doesn't
have to be that you talk to someone directly who
is a licensed therapist. It sounds like you've engaged in writing,
You've leveraged your support system, and you've made sure that
every place you go you can honor your son the
way that feels good for you.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Definitely, yes, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Definitely.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
As you've met other people who have lost children, how
do you try to support them amid their own their grief.
You mentioned that you have a woman who you work with,
but also, I want to take it a step further.
Does that become taxing for you?
Speaker 4 (16:35):
I think it's the beginning. It did, But I think again,
when you're around a group of women who understand you
not only support them, but they support you. Every year
we do this butterfly I release ceremony and yeah, we
have about maybe twenty thirty women that unfortunately have lost
(16:57):
a child. We include the families of course, and we
release butterflies in their honor, and every year we do
this amazing, every single year we do this.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
What time of year are you doing it?
Speaker 4 (17:07):
We usually do it during the spring, in April or May,
and it's really an opportunity for us to again just
to show our support and making sure that people remember
our children.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I love it now.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I mentioned at the top of our time together that
you are a gold star mother. Can you talk to
us about what it means to be a gold Star mother.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
It's not a group that I want to belong to. Okay, yeah,
not a group that I want to belong to. But
I am here. I'm here. I have no other choice.
When they first, of course, when my son was killed,
they tell you about gold Star moms and what it means,
and it's service. It's service to your country. You served
(17:51):
with your children as well, You served as emotional support
with your children.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Did you know that walking in like, had you thought
about it in that way?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Never? I didn't think about it.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I never heard it frame that way before.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
No, I didn't think about it in that way at
the moment while I was in it. But now I
know that's what I did. I served, We served, My
family served with him. We didn't fight, we weren't in
conflict a conflict, but we served with him. You know, emotionally,
we served with him because a lot my son went
through a lot while he was in the military, So
(18:25):
we served with him in that aspect. But it's you know,
as far as like, how do I support someone else?
You know, I had people. I had a young lady
who's a friend of mine. Her daughter was killed, not
in the service. It was under you know, other circumstances,
and she asked me at her daughter's service, how do
(18:46):
I go on? What is it that I have to do? And,
to be honest with you, I didn't have an answer
for her.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
I just told her. I hugged her and I told
her I was there for her. Sometimes people just want
you to listen. That's right, That is it. That's right,
that's it.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well, you've got me listening. That's good.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I'm ready to listen from what you described as a
gold star mother, which I know you said you don't
want to necessarily be that you've made the ultimate sacrifice
for the country. How does it feel at this stage
seeing America be so divided?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
How does that feel for you?
Speaker 4 (19:27):
So in this organization, you have many women, you have
women like myself, Brown women, and you have women of
other races and nationalities. I've seen a lot, I've read
a lot, and it is disturbing. It's disturbing because my
(19:48):
son didn't fight just for black and brown. My son
for it for everybody. And when I see the division,
it's almost as if I have some anger. I have
some anger because I wish it wasn't that way, But
I know that it's important for me to make sure
(20:11):
that people understand that, regardless of the circumstances, we can't
think that way. We cannot think that way. I'm proud
of my son, I'm proud of the service, and I'm
proud of what he decided to do for this country,
but I am disturbed and angered by the division very much.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So, Yes, thank you for sharing that Mishope. As we
head into the election season, what message do you want
to send to voters about the importance of honoring our
veterans and military families through the policies we need to support.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Yeah, I think it's important that we look at what
the policies are the best candidate who is touching on
those policies. Our veterans are individuals who have and who
continuously do. They're sacrificing their lives, They're giving their all.
(21:12):
They have an oath that they live up to, and
to be honest, as politicians, we should live up or
they should live up to the oath in their office
that they're in. Democracy is at the top, it's at
the forefront. We have to think about what our veterans
do and what they've given up and just in general.
(21:34):
As you know, veterans who came back during a time
where they were looked as nothing, they weren't given anything.
We have to think about veterans when it comes to housing,
when it comes to medical, employment, employment, there's so many
different things that you know, we should and veterans, to me, honestly,
(21:56):
they should be paid more than I'm sorry to say athletes.
Veterans and they're first and they're not. But we have
to really, you know, we have to take care of
our veterans. They're suffering, so we have to take care
of them. There's so much more that we can do.
And I think that when it comes to the policies
(22:18):
that we have to think about making sure that we
take care of our veterans.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
From what I gather after reviewing your bio, you're a writer,
a director, a producer. Can you tell us a little
bit about your journey to becoming those things? What it's
been like for you?
Speaker 4 (22:35):
So again, I mean, writing wasn't something that came naturally
to me. It was purpose. You know, people say that
your pain produces purpose, and that's what happened for me.
So writing again was like therapy. It was therapy because
it removed me from whatever I was going through, and
(22:55):
it gave me an opportunity to create. And I think
that's for most people. You know, when you talk about
pain and purpose, I mean, if you are going through
a lot in your life, there's something that comes out
of that. Right, And of course this is the most devastating.
They say that losing a child is an outer order death,
(23:18):
and it is. It's an outer order death. But writing
just gave me an opportunity to create, sure, and it
really gave me a voice, because, believe it or not,
I would have never seen myself in the position that
I'm in now as a writer or even you know,
being interviewed or on TV. These are not things that
(23:38):
I saw myself doing.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Right, absolutely, and then just you know, wrapping up you've
made you're making all of these contributions to our nation
through your writing, through production, through your service, through the
commitment that you've made with your son.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
How can the nation better support you?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
I think just by remembering, paying attention to what is
happening in our country, being more empathetic and thinking about
being fair equality, and just again remembering who these young
(24:19):
souls were, not necessarily how they died, but remember who
they were before they died.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Absolutely, yeah, I love that, and I just want to
thank you Missole for your honesty and your candor with
me today.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
How can our.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Audience learn more about your work, the cause you're supporting,
and just get involved in honoring you and other goals
our families.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
So again, I'm in yonkers, Okay, h h yonkers, i'moners.
Really honestly, I always tell people you could just google my.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
That's what I did.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yeah, you can google my name. You know, I'm on Facebook,
I'm on Instagram. You know, I have some films that
are out there. I've actually I did a documentary on
you know, moms who had lost a child.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Amazing.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
It's just you know, you could just google me. You
can google me, and it's a very easy way to
find me. Yes, very easy way to find me.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Well, we love it and just for the audience to know,
that's exactly how we found this.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
So just google her and with that, this.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Is the Dear America Show with Chanelle Barnes, where we
are interviewing real people and capturing real stories and real voices.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
I so appreciate that. Thank you, of course,
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