April 9, 2024 • 23 mins
Best selling author and investigative reporter Don Van Natta Jr. calls in to the show to discuss his upcoming biography on Jerry Jones!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You're listening to the downbeat on ninetyseven to one the Freak. How about
color five? Right now? You'llwant a pair of tickets to see Steve
Bye and Joe Satriani at the MusicCall at fair Park. Call it five
May fourth, Yeah, Color one, Yeah, color three, I'm changing
it. It's officially caller number three. Boy Kevin doesn't like his games challenge,
(00:25):
does he? Oh, he putsa lot into him. He's protective
of his little games. Interested infact, there's a good point to that
to what what collar number? Itdoesn't matter. I mean, I'm just
wondering if there's actually five people,yes, out there that dude, it's
the guys, Joe and Steve.Yeah, but it's also not nineteen eighty
(00:49):
seven anymore either. Do they justboth wail on guitars? Is that what
the whole show? Oh? Yeah? Are there any lyrics? They'll take
turns, cutting heads, they'll soloshold story, the story with their guitars.
Yeah, and take you on ajourney. We'll speak with their music.
You can be there, Caller three. If you're the first, third
or fifth caller third. We haveto be clear. We'll get in trouble.
(01:12):
Yeah, there's a lot of rulesone on this right now. We
got to abide by the promotional rules. I know one pair of tickets today
caller three, yep, pair Parkof Music Hall. Good place to see
a show. Oh. In thebreak we're talking about movies. Ben and
skin Show will be doing mcgroober atthe Alamo Draft House. Oh yes,
(01:34):
and they're going to do the Dentonone KFBR three nine two. Can I
make an admission? Never saw macgoober, never saw mcgroober, and I have
been told to see it by BenRogers and my friend Kent for a long
time. They're I gotta see itsoon. If you saw my vanity plate
that I had for a year,which was KFBR three nine two, you
(01:56):
would not know what you were seeingHunt. Neither we do wouldn't know.
I haven't seen the movie either.Gods, you guys have never seen Really
you should go? Are you gonnago? I love the sketch or the
skit on SNHL. It's funny.I mean, is that sketch continued for
an hour and a half. It'sjust a bumbling mcguiver. Yeah, And
I don't know that I see itnow that I look at it, I
(02:19):
don't know that I see it onthe website, so maybe I shouldn't have
announced that. But I don't knowif it's official or not. I don't
know anything. But Caller three getsto go see Steve Vay and Joe Satrianna
and listen to Ben and Skin todaybecause they have a big surprise announcement that
they were excited to make. Ithink it did. I sort of got
(02:43):
heart. It's gonna be huge.It's gonna be a really cool announcement.
I sort of got I saw somesome some artwork about it on something.
This is the problem though, withhaving too many apps and too many things
that we're supposed to be like controlof. It's so hard to know what
that's what anymore sounds to me likeyour mouth throw to check that your ass
(03:04):
can't cash. Yeah, huh isthat how it goes? Yes, Tiger
Woods is live on the range atAugusta. We have collegs live from the
range. Cat Well, he's justholding a wedge. He's got to make
the cut here, Danny, andhe is about to swing and give a
review. He's in position and hehas hit the golf ball all right,
(03:24):
he's not wincing in pain. Goodyou taking Tiger to win it all.
No, I'm not taking Tiger towin it all. To make the cut,
though, Okay, maybe that'll beour He's playing for something this week,
to set the record of twenty fourmade cuts. But I don't know
if our guest cares about that.He might. He does. Has written
two golf books. Absolutely it isESPN senior writer New York Times best selling
(03:49):
author Don Van, not a junior. How are you doing, Don?
It's not even Nata I almost probablyI didn't answer you. Yeah, Hey,
Donald, we got you. Nope, So there we are. How
you doing doing great? Guys?How you doing? We're doing awesome?
(04:12):
Man? All right, only becausewe just talked about it. Tiger woods
make the cut, not make thecut this week, Augusta National. Uh,
you can't bet against Tiger. He'llmake it. He'll be what it'll
be twenty five, I think,right, twenty four, twenty four to
twenty five. I know it's therecord twenty five. He's tied twenty three
record couples and write twenty four.Gary, so you think, yes,
(04:33):
I guess he is at the maxlevel experience, But good god, he
just doesn't play withdraws. When hedoes play and he's so beat up.
Man, I hope you're right.Well, we'll all be rooting for him
for sure. So you're writing thisbook, this Jerry Jones book, and
I guess I've got a million questionsabout this. My first question is how
do you write a book about JerryJones and keep it under ten thousand pages?
(05:00):
That is going to be a challenge, for sure. You got to
keep the book, you know,probably one hundred to one hundred and twenty
thousand words. That's about a fourhundred page book. Can't go longer than
that. It'll just look intimidating topeople. That is definitely a challenge.
Jerry has lived a very full life, as we all know, and he's
eighty one years old and hasn't sloweddown. So I'll do the best I
(05:25):
can to tell his story and tellpeople new things. That's the big challenge,
guys, is to I'm an investigativereporter by trade, and one of
the great challenges of this book,besides the length, is to try to
reveal new things about Jerry, thingsthat nobody knows about. And so that's
what I'm setting out to do.Well, I've got a million questions as
(05:46):
well, don Okay, So howwould you describe what this book is?
Is this a by a full biographyof the life of Jerry? Is it
a portion of his life? Andis this also an authorized biography by Jerry
Jones. It's a full biography.So I'm going to go back to Jerry's
childhood, and his years in highschool and in college at Arkansas, and
(06:14):
you know, and and his yearsyou know, in the oil and gas
industry when he when he made alot of money and then lost almost all
of it and then made another fortuneback enough money to buy the Cowboys.
So I'm going to go back intothat past of Jerry. It is an
unauthorized biography. Jerry is not somebodywho I think he's going to cooperate with
(06:39):
me. In fact, I feelpretty certain he'll cooperate with me in the
sense that he'll sit down with meand give me time. But it is
an unauthorized biography. It's not thesame as the Netflix doc that Jerry is
doing. That's an authorized documentary thatJerry is doing with Netflix, that docuseries.
This is going to be a littlebit different from that. Okay.
That makes me very happy to hear, because I find that in most cases,
(07:01):
the authorized biography tends to have thenarrative controlled by the subject. And
I love that you, being sucha great investigative reporter and researcher, that
you're going to have, I think, a more honest take on the overall
trajectory of his life. Now heis going to cooperate with you. I
(07:23):
have no doubt. Does that kindof present a slippery slope? I guess
I'm kind of asking what's your relationshipwith Jerry? Because historically you have been
at the forefront of a lot ofunearthing some things that may not put Jerry
in his you know, a familyin a most favorable light. What's your
(07:46):
relationship with him when it comes tostuff like this, considering the history of
the things that you've written about himand the Cowboys. Well, ten years
ago, actually ten years ago thissummer, I spent the summer pretty much
with Jerry Jones and doing a indepth profile of him for ESPN. It
was a TV piece as well asa lengthy long form piece entitled Jerry Football
(08:09):
that a lot of people around ourbusiness believe was the best portrait of him
and uh and since then, wehave a we have a pretty good relationship.
He certainly is not like some ofthe more recent stories I've done about
him. But I think that ifyou ask Jerry what he thought of thought
about my work and thinks of me, I think he'd probably say that I'm
I'm tough but fair and that I'mdown the middle, and uh that you
(08:33):
know, that's what I'm going todo with this book. Uh. If
Jerry cooperates and I agree with you, I expect that he will and give
me time and sit down with me, h and answer my questions probably more
than once. You know, I'mHe's not the only person I'm going to
talk to. I'm going to do, already done dozens of interviews and we'll
do more than a hundred when it'sall said and done. And I'm going
(08:56):
to try to do the best,most honest portrait of Jerry Jones that has
ever been written. That was thegoal I set for myself when I did
that profile ten years ago. Andif you go back and read that,
there were things in that profile thatJerry didn't love that I reported on.
So you know, my goal isto just do the best book, the
most honest book, the most downthe middle book about Jerry Jones again,
(09:20):
as Danny said, you're one ofthe most in depth writers on some of
the things he's done. Do youget blowback just through third parties or through
the media, or does Jerry himselfor some associate or henchman for lack of
a better word, or lawyer contactyou when you release one of your expose
as oh, I hear it fromeverybody, including Jerry. I've heard directly
(09:43):
from Jerry on certain things, butcertainly the people around him, his communications
people, lawyers, you know,I will hear from them. But for
the most part, even the toughstories. I did a story just a
couple of years ago about the cheerleader'svoyeurism scandal involving Rich Dalrymple. That was
(10:05):
a story, certainly that was notbeloved at the Star. And yet what
the feedback I heard is that peoplethere, you know, thought it was
fair. It was a down themiddle portrait of a two point four million
dollar settlement made to four young womenwho claimed that they were spied on by
the former top communications guy who'd beenwith Jerry since nineteen ninety, Rich Dalrymple,
(10:30):
who retired just a week before mystory was published. And so I
think that readers can expect that kindof coverage from this book. You know,
I've been doing this thirty five years. I've been at ESPN since twenty
twelve. And the book about Jerryis it's about Jerry Jones's life, but
it's also about Jerry Jones's influence withthe National Football League. One of the
(10:52):
big motivating factors for me and tellingand writing this book is telling that story.
Jerry has played an outsize role inthe astonishing success of the NFL through
his vision and through his business acumen. And at the same time, I'm
going to weigh out against nearly thirtyyears of futility as general manager of the
(11:13):
Cowboys, not even making it tothe title the championship by the conference championship
game since nineteen ninety five, sothat will also be measured. That's a
story that of course is very familiarto everybody in Dallas, but that will
also obviously be part of the bookbecause that's part of Jerry's story. Best
Selling author Don Van Atta joining ushere on ninety seven to one too.
(11:35):
I want to expound a little biton what Mikey just asked you. When
you do hear blowback, when youdo get feedback from you, said Jerry
himself, What is the nature ofthe feedback if it is maybe negative?
Is it is it them challenging thefacts that you presented, or is it
(11:56):
essentially an emotional response lots of donwhat are you doing writing this stuff about
us? Man? Yeah, Imean, I'm just kind of curious of
what that dynamic might look like whenwhen you hear back from the Jones camp.
I don't think a single fact I'veever written has been challenged by Jerry
directly. I think it's much morein the second part of your question of
(12:20):
hey, what are you doing?Did you have to go there? Did
you have to do that? It'sit's more like that, you know,
Jerry generally has pretty favorable coverage orhe's used to it. Certainly he gets
a lot of criticism, but that'scommentary. But it's more in that second
camp of man, did you haveto go did you have to go that
(12:43):
far? Did you have to dothat? And I was like, well,
yeah, Jerry, that's that's whatthe facts are. That's sort of
what my response is, which Ithink he accepts, and I mean I
have a sense from Jerry that herespects what I do, and even though
this is an unauthorized biography that youknow, I don't think that. I
(13:05):
think the expectation that I have isthat Jerry will spend time with me,
and already I have spent so muchtime with him and have talked with him
about every aspect of his life,going all the way back to his childhood
and his mom and dad, andgrowing up in North Little Rock and playing
high school football, and his collegeexperiences, his vision for the NFL,
(13:26):
you know, almost buying the SanDiego charters and being talked out of it
by his dad. A lot ofthat stuff's familiar, but Jerry and I
have gone very in depth in thesedifferent moments in his life, and so
I'm excited. I think that Ithink that the book, my hope for
the book, my ambition for thebook is quite large. I wanted to
tell a lot of new things aboutJerry's life, but also a lot about
(13:50):
the making of the National Football Leagueand how this guy who you know,
he had a dream in the eightiesto actually it started when he was in
college in the sixties, to eventuallyown a National Football League franchise, and
to finally do it, and todo it on his terms is a fascinating
American story that I'm really excited totell. I would say, I mean,
(14:11):
to me, it seems like youhave as much access or are as
close as you as anybody without beingin his inner circle or family would have
access to a lot of information abouthim in your conversations. Would you say
that there are any details anything thathe has told you that he says,
(14:31):
Look, don I know what you'redoing. This is not to be written
about. Is there information that youhave that you are literally not willing to
go there, whether it be becauseout of an ethical connection or because Jerry
has specifically told you, hey,this is off the record. Well off
the record, I mean, you'rehave to be two different questions. One
(14:52):
is whatever I find out, andif it's truthful and it's accurate, I'm
going to report. I think thatJerry and the people around him know that.
Certainly, if a source says offthe record to me, it means
off the record, and I respectthat. And there have been times in
my relationship with Jerry, like alot of sources around the National Football League
(15:15):
or beyond, we'll say off therecord, and that means off the record.
But there's no area that is sortof off limits. There's no agreement
like that. That's the nature ofan unauthorized book. If I were doing
an authorized book, then the answerwould probably be very different that, yes,
this is authorized, we can't gointo this aspect or that aspect.
That's the agreement we have. There'sno agreement like that, Jerry. I
(15:37):
think is as I say, myexpectation is sit down with me, hopefully
multiple times as I'm as I'm reportingand as I'm gathering facts to talk about
various moments and and and and and. Yeah, there's there's no agreement like
that that there's some area that Ican't go into. This is Don Van
Natta, junior of Well ESPN,Senior writer, New York Times best selling
(16:03):
author and one of the best,most incredible writers and authors of our time.
I know, it's always fascinating.I mean, you're the guy who
who taught us that Jerry likes JohnnyWalker Blue, you know, is a
great fun fact that is stuck aroundfrom ten years from that piece up.
My question is you're talking about yourbook and keeping it four hundred pages so
it's not too big and not intimidatingfrom a sales standpoint. When you're writing.
(16:26):
This is almost like editing a movie, Like you could have six hundred,
seven hundred pages and you gotta chopsomething out or how does that even
work? It is? It is, it is. Uh, there's a
lot of choices to make about youknow, how I want to write the
book and what moments and what aspectsof Jerry's life that I want to focus
(16:49):
on. And you know, Ihave a I have a pretty good outline.
I mean, obviously it could changeas I'm doing the reporting and I've
begun writing, and I have apretty good vision for the arc of how
I want to tell the story.But it is like that, it's impossible
with somebody who's been on the planetfor eighty one years to get into every
(17:10):
single moment, every single season,every single choice that Jerry has made.
So I have to make choices inthe narrative about how to try to tell
that story. But as I said, you guys, I want to focus
a lot on Jerry as owner ofthe team and as visionary as one of
the owners of the thirty two whohelped build the NFL into what it is,
(17:33):
but also you know Jerry's other businessesthat he's been in that intrigues me.
Legends the hospitality and stadium company.You know, Jerry is involved and
still involved in the oil and gasindustry with Comstock Resources. So you know,
Jerry's life today beyond the Cowboys andhow he conducts business is something that
(17:56):
intrigues me that you don't see alot and about, and you know,
and how he built his fortune issomething that I'm very very interested in and
going back and tracing that and explainingto people how he had the money to
buy the team from bum Bright innineteen eighty nine fo one hundred and fifty
million dollars than a record and it'skind of mind boggling that the team is
(18:18):
now worth probably you know, nineand a half ten billion is the estimate,
but Jerry could probably get fifteen billiondollars for the Cowboys today if he
were to sell it. And that'sjust an astonishing success story. What makes
Jerry tick, you know how he'salways obsessed with making the Cowboys relevant.
You know, back in twenty fourteenwhen I did that profile, he wanted
(18:40):
to draft you guys will remember JohnnyManziel. He thought Johnny Manziel would guarantee
the Cowboys relevance for a decade,and we all know what happened to Johnny
Manziel, what a bust he turnedout to be and would have been for
the Cowboys, and maybe one ofthe most embarrassing picks Jerry ever would have
made his general manager if he hadn'tbeen talked out of that pick in real
(19:00):
time. And so is the wayhe's constantly focused on making sure the Cowboys
are relevant despite the fact the America'steam they get the best ratings of any
team no matter what they do onthe field. Is just a remarkable story.
And how he has made that happenis something I really want to try
(19:23):
to explain, delve into and explain. Yeah, Don Van Natt, I
can't think of anybody better to writethat story. And it's certainly worthy because
you're right, the positives are prettyincredible too. But around here, you
know, we hear a lot ofthe strange negative so we are obviously curious
about those, but whenever it comesout, it will fly off the shelves
here in DFW. While we haveyou on, I have to ask you.
I'm a Miami native too. Iknow you used to work for the
(19:45):
Miami Herald and Don Van Natta.You've probably told the story thousands of times,
but I've never heard it. Hewas sent by Harold editors to cover
Hurricane Andrew, stayed in a comfortin that was destroyed by one hundred and
sixty five on our wins while youwere there, nearly lost your life.
If you could and in a minuteor two, as dumb as that is,
tell us that story. Please.Yeah. We was fit the kid
(20:07):
reporter as a young reporter to MiamiHerald was my first job, and the
Herald sent reporters all over then DadeCounty, Miami to cover the storm.
We didn't know where the storm wasgoing to hit back then in nineteen ninety
two, and Hurricane Andrew was thismonster category five storm, and I went
to a comfort in motel with mythen girlfriend Lizette Alvarez, who was a
(20:30):
Herald reporter who's now my wife ofnearly thirty years, and a photographer named
Carlos Guerrero. And the comfort inmotel off of us one literally got torn
apart by these winds. We wererunning from room to room as the roof
got torn off of various hotel rooms. It was the three of us and
six other guests and a motel managerwho knew once the eye of the storm
(20:55):
was over the motel for us tomove on the other side. He had
been through a hurricane in New Warrant. I knew the winds were going to
shift, and I think it savedour life because we moved to the other
side when the wind shifted, andall of the rooms on the side that
we're in were all torn apart.The roof was torn off of the entire
side of the motel. There wereonly a few rooms left and we were
in one of them. And therewas one point where myself and another guests
(21:18):
were holding up felt like we wereholding up the bathroom with our bare hands.
So it was extremely scary. Andthen when it was over, though,
it was a journalist dream because Iwas asked by the Herald to write
a first person's story of surviving thatstorm that appeared on the front page of
the Miami Herald, and I wroteit on one of those little trash eighty
computers, literally in the husk ofthat motel. And it was a good
(21:42):
thing for my career because just acouple of years after that, the New
York Times called and hired both myselfand my wife at the age of thirty
to go up to the New YorkTimes for sixteen years before I joined ESPN.
But it was a very scary moment. I appreciate you asking me about
it. I haven't told that storyin a while, but it was.
It's pretty amazing. Yeah, no, that is fascinating. All right,
(22:02):
don van Natta. We'll let yougo. Man. We can do this
for hours on end, just onJerry alone. But hell, all your
other books incredible successes, and weknow this one will be a success as
well. Is it called The Star? Is that what we're going with.
Yes, that's what we're going withright now. That's the working title,
and I think it works, Ihope. So anyway, what do you
guys think of it? I lovedit right when I heard it, and
I told these guys and they're like, oh, is that the title?
(22:25):
And then yes, it fits onmultiple all levels. I think, yeah,
for sure. Yeah, this thingis going to soar off of shelves.
Man, you're you're going to haveanother hit on your hands, no
doubt. Well, thank you,guys. I appreciate the support and I
look forward to talking with you guyswhen it comes out. Yea, sir,
there he goes, Don Van NattaJunior man, thanks for your time.
Cool, thanks guys, you gooddude. There you go. Yep,
(22:48):
if he read something, if youknow that he wrote it, you
immediately go okay, gotta make timeand read this. It's cool that it
seems like last how many years,it's turned into that where it's like,
oh, something came out about JerryJones. Oh really, so what is
it Tuesday? Wait? No,Don Van Natta's got a story dropping.
Yeah, oh you know it's gonnabe deeper and yeah, good get man.
That's a cool, good stuff forsure. Cool. Yeah, and
(23:10):
we'll compound it with Dusty Sleigh tomorrow. Yeah, Danny Danger's Morning News.
Well, let's follow up some awardwinning winning journalism with some more award winning
journalism with this tease, did RickyMartin get a pant full of bone at
a Madonna concert? Stick around andfind out
You're listening to the downbeat on ninetyseven to one the Freak. How about
color five? Right now? You'llwant a pair of tickets to see Steve
Bye and Joe Satriani at the MusicCall at fair Park. Call it five
May fourth, Yeah, Color one, Yeah, color three, I'm changing
it. It's officially caller number three. Boy Kevin doesn't like his games challenge,
(00:25):
does he? Oh, he putsa lot into him. He's protective
of his little games. Interested infact, there's a good point to that
to what what collar number? Itdoesn't matter. I mean, I'm just
wondering if there's actually five people,yes, out there that dude, it's
the guys, Joe and Steve.Yeah, but it's also not nineteen eighty
(00:49):
seven anymore either. Do they justboth wail on guitars? Is that what
the whole show? Oh? Yeah? Are there any lyrics? They'll take
turns, cutting heads, they'll soloshold story, the story with their guitars.
Yeah, and take you on ajourney. We'll speak with their music.
You can be there, Caller three. If you're the first, third
or fifth caller third. We haveto be clear. We'll get in trouble.
(01:12):
Yeah, there's a lot of rulesone on this right now. We
got to abide by the promotional rules. I know one pair of tickets today
caller three, yep, pair Parkof Music Hall. Good place to see
a show. Oh. In thebreak we're talking about movies. Ben and
skin Show will be doing mcgroober atthe Alamo Draft House. Oh yes,
(01:34):
and they're going to do the Dentonone KFBR three nine two. Can I
make an admission? Never saw macgoober, never saw mcgroober, and I have
been told to see it by BenRogers and my friend Kent for a long
time. They're I gotta see itsoon. If you saw my vanity plate
that I had for a year,which was KFBR three nine two, you
(01:56):
would not know what you were seeingHunt. Neither we do wouldn't know.
I haven't seen the movie either.Gods, you guys have never seen Really
you should go? Are you gonnago? I love the sketch or the
skit on SNHL. It's funny.I mean, is that sketch continued for
an hour and a half. It'sjust a bumbling mcguiver. Yeah, And
I don't know that I see itnow that I look at it, I
(02:19):
don't know that I see it onthe website, so maybe I shouldn't have
announced that. But I don't knowif it's official or not. I don't
know anything. But Caller three getsto go see Steve Vay and Joe Satrianna
and listen to Ben and Skin todaybecause they have a big surprise announcement that
they were excited to make. Ithink it did. I sort of got
(02:43):
heart. It's gonna be huge.It's gonna be a really cool announcement.
I sort of got I saw somesome some artwork about it on something.
This is the problem though, withhaving too many apps and too many things
that we're supposed to be like controlof. It's so hard to know what
that's what anymore sounds to me likeyour mouth throw to check that your ass
(03:04):
can't cash. Yeah, huh isthat how it goes? Yes, Tiger
Woods is live on the range atAugusta. We have collegs live from the
range. Cat Well, he's justholding a wedge. He's got to make
the cut here, Danny, andhe is about to swing and give a
review. He's in position and hehas hit the golf ball all right,
(03:24):
he's not wincing in pain. Goodyou taking Tiger to win it all.
No, I'm not taking Tiger towin it all. To make the cut,
though, Okay, maybe that'll beour He's playing for something this week,
to set the record of twenty fourmade cuts. But I don't know
if our guest cares about that.He might. He does. Has written
two golf books. Absolutely it isESPN senior writer New York Times best selling
(03:49):
author Don Van, not a junior. How are you doing, Don?
It's not even Nata I almost probablyI didn't answer you. Yeah, Hey,
Donald, we got you. Nope, So there we are. How
you doing doing great? Guys?How you doing? We're doing awesome?
(04:12):
Man? All right, only becausewe just talked about it. Tiger woods
make the cut, not make thecut this week, Augusta National. Uh,
you can't bet against Tiger. He'llmake it. He'll be what it'll
be twenty five, I think,right, twenty four, twenty four to
twenty five. I know it's therecord twenty five. He's tied twenty three
record couples and write twenty four.Gary, so you think, yes,
(04:33):
I guess he is at the maxlevel experience, But good god, he
just doesn't play withdraws. When hedoes play and he's so beat up.
Man, I hope you're right.Well, we'll all be rooting for him
for sure. So you're writing thisbook, this Jerry Jones book, and
I guess I've got a million questionsabout this. My first question is how
do you write a book about JerryJones and keep it under ten thousand pages?
(05:00):
That is going to be a challenge, for sure. You got to
keep the book, you know,probably one hundred to one hundred and twenty
thousand words. That's about a fourhundred page book. Can't go longer than
that. It'll just look intimidating topeople. That is definitely a challenge.
Jerry has lived a very full life, as we all know, and he's
eighty one years old and hasn't sloweddown. So I'll do the best I
(05:25):
can to tell his story and tellpeople new things. That's the big challenge,
guys, is to I'm an investigativereporter by trade, and one of
the great challenges of this book,besides the length, is to try to
reveal new things about Jerry, thingsthat nobody knows about. And so that's
what I'm setting out to do.Well, I've got a million questions as
(05:46):
well, don Okay, So howwould you describe what this book is?
Is this a by a full biographyof the life of Jerry? Is it
a portion of his life? Andis this also an authorized biography by Jerry
Jones. It's a full biography.So I'm going to go back to Jerry's
childhood, and his years in highschool and in college at Arkansas, and
(06:14):
you know, and and his yearsyou know, in the oil and gas
industry when he when he made alot of money and then lost almost all
of it and then made another fortuneback enough money to buy the Cowboys.
So I'm going to go back intothat past of Jerry. It is an
unauthorized biography. Jerry is not somebodywho I think he's going to cooperate with
(06:39):
me. In fact, I feelpretty certain he'll cooperate with me in the
sense that he'll sit down with meand give me time. But it is
an unauthorized biography. It's not thesame as the Netflix doc that Jerry is
doing. That's an authorized documentary thatJerry is doing with Netflix, that docuseries.
This is going to be a littlebit different from that. Okay.
That makes me very happy to hear, because I find that in most cases,
(07:01):
the authorized biography tends to have thenarrative controlled by the subject. And
I love that you, being sucha great investigative reporter and researcher, that
you're going to have, I think, a more honest take on the overall
trajectory of his life. Now heis going to cooperate with you. I
(07:23):
have no doubt. Does that kindof present a slippery slope? I guess
I'm kind of asking what's your relationshipwith Jerry? Because historically you have been
at the forefront of a lot ofunearthing some things that may not put Jerry
in his you know, a familyin a most favorable light. What's your
(07:46):
relationship with him when it comes tostuff like this, considering the history of
the things that you've written about himand the Cowboys. Well, ten years
ago, actually ten years ago thissummer, I spent the summer pretty much
with Jerry Jones and doing a indepth profile of him for ESPN. It
was a TV piece as well asa lengthy long form piece entitled Jerry Football
(08:09):
that a lot of people around ourbusiness believe was the best portrait of him
and uh and since then, wehave a we have a pretty good relationship.
He certainly is not like some ofthe more recent stories I've done about
him. But I think that ifyou ask Jerry what he thought of thought
about my work and thinks of me, I think he'd probably say that I'm
I'm tough but fair and that I'mdown the middle, and uh that you
(08:33):
know, that's what I'm going todo with this book. Uh. If
Jerry cooperates and I agree with you, I expect that he will and give
me time and sit down with me, h and answer my questions probably more
than once. You know, I'mHe's not the only person I'm going to
talk to. I'm going to do, already done dozens of interviews and we'll
do more than a hundred when it'sall said and done. And I'm going
(08:56):
to try to do the best,most honest portrait of Jerry Jones that has
ever been written. That was thegoal I set for myself when I did
that profile ten years ago. Andif you go back and read that,
there were things in that profile thatJerry didn't love that I reported on.
So you know, my goal isto just do the best book, the
most honest book, the most downthe middle book about Jerry Jones again,
(09:20):
as Danny said, you're one ofthe most in depth writers on some of
the things he's done. Do youget blowback just through third parties or through
the media, or does Jerry himselfor some associate or henchman for lack of
a better word, or lawyer contactyou when you release one of your expose
as oh, I hear it fromeverybody, including Jerry. I've heard directly
(09:43):
from Jerry on certain things, butcertainly the people around him, his communications
people, lawyers, you know,I will hear from them. But for
the most part, even the toughstories. I did a story just a
couple of years ago about the cheerleader'svoyeurism scandal involving Rich Dalrymple. That was
(10:05):
a story, certainly that was notbeloved at the Star. And yet what
the feedback I heard is that peoplethere, you know, thought it was
fair. It was a down themiddle portrait of a two point four million
dollar settlement made to four young womenwho claimed that they were spied on by
the former top communications guy who'd beenwith Jerry since nineteen ninety, Rich Dalrymple,
(10:30):
who retired just a week before mystory was published. And so I
think that readers can expect that kindof coverage from this book. You know,
I've been doing this thirty five years. I've been at ESPN since twenty
twelve. And the book about Jerryis it's about Jerry Jones's life, but
it's also about Jerry Jones's influence withthe National Football League. One of the
(10:52):
big motivating factors for me and tellingand writing this book is telling that story.
Jerry has played an outsize role inthe astonishing success of the NFL through
his vision and through his business acumen. And at the same time, I'm
going to weigh out against nearly thirtyyears of futility as general manager of the
(11:13):
Cowboys, not even making it tothe title the championship by the conference championship
game since nineteen ninety five, sothat will also be measured. That's a
story that of course is very familiarto everybody in Dallas, but that will
also obviously be part of the bookbecause that's part of Jerry's story. Best
Selling author Don Van Atta joining ushere on ninety seven to one too.
(11:35):
I want to expound a little biton what Mikey just asked you. When
you do hear blowback, when youdo get feedback from you, said Jerry
himself, What is the nature ofthe feedback if it is maybe negative?
Is it is it them challenging thefacts that you presented, or is it
(11:56):
essentially an emotional response lots of donwhat are you doing writing this stuff about
us? Man? Yeah, Imean, I'm just kind of curious of
what that dynamic might look like whenwhen you hear back from the Jones camp.
I don't think a single fact I'veever written has been challenged by Jerry
directly. I think it's much morein the second part of your question of
(12:20):
hey, what are you doing?Did you have to go there? Did
you have to do that? It'sit's more like that, you know,
Jerry generally has pretty favorable coverage orhe's used to it. Certainly he gets
a lot of criticism, but that'scommentary. But it's more in that second
camp of man, did you haveto go did you have to go that
(12:43):
far? Did you have to dothat? And I was like, well,
yeah, Jerry, that's that's whatthe facts are. That's sort of
what my response is, which Ithink he accepts, and I mean I
have a sense from Jerry that herespects what I do, and even though
this is an unauthorized biography that youknow, I don't think that. I
(13:05):
think the expectation that I have isthat Jerry will spend time with me,
and already I have spent so muchtime with him and have talked with him
about every aspect of his life,going all the way back to his childhood
and his mom and dad, andgrowing up in North Little Rock and playing
high school football, and his collegeexperiences, his vision for the NFL,
(13:26):
you know, almost buying the SanDiego charters and being talked out of it
by his dad. A lot ofthat stuff's familiar, but Jerry and I
have gone very in depth in thesedifferent moments in his life, and so
I'm excited. I think that Ithink that the book, my hope for
the book, my ambition for thebook is quite large. I wanted to
tell a lot of new things aboutJerry's life, but also a lot about
(13:50):
the making of the National Football Leagueand how this guy who you know,
he had a dream in the eightiesto actually it started when he was in
college in the sixties, to eventuallyown a National Football League franchise, and
to finally do it, and todo it on his terms is a fascinating
American story that I'm really excited totell. I would say, I mean,
(14:11):
to me, it seems like youhave as much access or are as
close as you as anybody without beingin his inner circle or family would have
access to a lot of information abouthim in your conversations. Would you say
that there are any details anything thathe has told you that he says,
(14:31):
Look, don I know what you'redoing. This is not to be written
about. Is there information that youhave that you are literally not willing to
go there, whether it be becauseout of an ethical connection or because Jerry
has specifically told you, hey,this is off the record. Well off
the record, I mean, you'rehave to be two different questions. One
(14:52):
is whatever I find out, andif it's truthful and it's accurate, I'm
going to report. I think thatJerry and the people around him know that.
Certainly, if a source says offthe record to me, it means
off the record, and I respectthat. And there have been times in
my relationship with Jerry, like alot of sources around the National Football League
(15:15):
or beyond, we'll say off therecord, and that means off the record.
But there's no area that is sortof off limits. There's no agreement
like that. That's the nature ofan unauthorized book. If I were doing
an authorized book, then the answerwould probably be very different that, yes,
this is authorized, we can't gointo this aspect or that aspect.
That's the agreement we have. There'sno agreement like that, Jerry. I
(15:37):
think is as I say, myexpectation is sit down with me, hopefully
multiple times as I'm as I'm reportingand as I'm gathering facts to talk about
various moments and and and and and. Yeah, there's there's no agreement like
that that there's some area that Ican't go into. This is Don Van
Natta, junior of Well ESPN,Senior writer, New York Times best selling
(16:03):
author and one of the best,most incredible writers and authors of our time.
I know, it's always fascinating.I mean, you're the guy who
who taught us that Jerry likes JohnnyWalker Blue, you know, is a
great fun fact that is stuck aroundfrom ten years from that piece up.
My question is you're talking about yourbook and keeping it four hundred pages so
it's not too big and not intimidatingfrom a sales standpoint. When you're writing.
(16:26):
This is almost like editing a movie, Like you could have six hundred,
seven hundred pages and you gotta chopsomething out or how does that even
work? It is? It is, it is. Uh, there's a
lot of choices to make about youknow, how I want to write the
book and what moments and what aspectsof Jerry's life that I want to focus
(16:49):
on. And you know, Ihave a I have a pretty good outline.
I mean, obviously it could changeas I'm doing the reporting and I've
begun writing, and I have apretty good vision for the arc of how
I want to tell the story.But it is like that, it's impossible
with somebody who's been on the planetfor eighty one years to get into every
(17:10):
single moment, every single season,every single choice that Jerry has made.
So I have to make choices inthe narrative about how to try to tell
that story. But as I said, you guys, I want to focus
a lot on Jerry as owner ofthe team and as visionary as one of
the owners of the thirty two whohelped build the NFL into what it is,
(17:33):
but also you know Jerry's other businessesthat he's been in that intrigues me.
Legends the hospitality and stadium company.You know, Jerry is involved and
still involved in the oil and gasindustry with Comstock Resources. So you know,
Jerry's life today beyond the Cowboys andhow he conducts business is something that
(17:56):
intrigues me that you don't see alot and about, and you know,
and how he built his fortune issomething that I'm very very interested in and
going back and tracing that and explainingto people how he had the money to
buy the team from bum Bright innineteen eighty nine fo one hundred and fifty
million dollars than a record and it'skind of mind boggling that the team is
(18:18):
now worth probably you know, nineand a half ten billion is the estimate,
but Jerry could probably get fifteen billiondollars for the Cowboys today if he
were to sell it. And that'sjust an astonishing success story. What makes
Jerry tick, you know how he'salways obsessed with making the Cowboys relevant.
You know, back in twenty fourteenwhen I did that profile, he wanted
(18:40):
to draft you guys will remember JohnnyManziel. He thought Johnny Manziel would guarantee
the Cowboys relevance for a decade,and we all know what happened to Johnny
Manziel, what a bust he turnedout to be and would have been for
the Cowboys, and maybe one ofthe most embarrassing picks Jerry ever would have
made his general manager if he hadn'tbeen talked out of that pick in real
(19:00):
time. And so is the wayhe's constantly focused on making sure the Cowboys
are relevant despite the fact the America'steam they get the best ratings of any
team no matter what they do onthe field. Is just a remarkable story.
And how he has made that happenis something I really want to try
(19:23):
to explain, delve into and explain. Yeah, Don Van Natt, I
can't think of anybody better to writethat story. And it's certainly worthy because
you're right, the positives are prettyincredible too. But around here, you
know, we hear a lot ofthe strange negative so we are obviously curious
about those, but whenever it comesout, it will fly off the shelves
here in DFW. While we haveyou on, I have to ask you.
I'm a Miami native too. Iknow you used to work for the
(19:45):
Miami Herald and Don Van Natta.You've probably told the story thousands of times,
but I've never heard it. Hewas sent by Harold editors to cover
Hurricane Andrew, stayed in a comfortin that was destroyed by one hundred and
sixty five on our wins while youwere there, nearly lost your life.
If you could and in a minuteor two, as dumb as that is,
tell us that story. Please.Yeah. We was fit the kid
(20:07):
reporter as a young reporter to MiamiHerald was my first job, and the
Herald sent reporters all over then DadeCounty, Miami to cover the storm.
We didn't know where the storm wasgoing to hit back then in nineteen ninety
two, and Hurricane Andrew was thismonster category five storm, and I went
to a comfort in motel with mythen girlfriend Lizette Alvarez, who was a
(20:30):
Herald reporter who's now my wife ofnearly thirty years, and a photographer named
Carlos Guerrero. And the comfort inmotel off of us one literally got torn
apart by these winds. We wererunning from room to room as the roof
got torn off of various hotel rooms. It was the three of us and
six other guests and a motel managerwho knew once the eye of the storm
(20:55):
was over the motel for us tomove on the other side. He had
been through a hurricane in New Warrant. I knew the winds were going to
shift, and I think it savedour life because we moved to the other
side when the wind shifted, andall of the rooms on the side that
we're in were all torn apart.The roof was torn off of the entire
side of the motel. There wereonly a few rooms left and we were
in one of them. And therewas one point where myself and another guests
(21:18):
were holding up felt like we wereholding up the bathroom with our bare hands.
So it was extremely scary. Andthen when it was over, though,
it was a journalist dream because Iwas asked by the Herald to write
a first person's story of surviving thatstorm that appeared on the front page of
the Miami Herald, and I wroteit on one of those little trash eighty
computers, literally in the husk ofthat motel. And it was a good
(21:42):
thing for my career because just acouple of years after that, the New
York Times called and hired both myselfand my wife at the age of thirty
to go up to the New YorkTimes for sixteen years before I joined ESPN.
But it was a very scary moment. I appreciate you asking me about
it. I haven't told that storyin a while, but it was.
It's pretty amazing. Yeah, no, that is fascinating. All right,
(22:02):
don van Natta. We'll let yougo. Man. We can do this
for hours on end, just onJerry alone. But hell, all your
other books incredible successes, and weknow this one will be a success as
well. Is it called The Star? Is that what we're going with.
Yes, that's what we're going withright now. That's the working title,
and I think it works, Ihope. So anyway, what do you
guys think of it? I lovedit right when I heard it, and
I told these guys and they're like, oh, is that the title?
(22:25):
And then yes, it fits onmultiple all levels. I think, yeah,
for sure. Yeah, this thingis going to soar off of shelves.
Man, you're you're going to haveanother hit on your hands, no
doubt. Well, thank you,guys. I appreciate the support and I
look forward to talking with you guyswhen it comes out. Yea, sir,
there he goes, Don Van NattaJunior man, thanks for your time.
Cool, thanks guys, you gooddude. There you go. Yep,
(22:48):
if he read something, if youknow that he wrote it, you
immediately go okay, gotta make timeand read this. It's cool that it
seems like last how many years,it's turned into that where it's like,
oh, something came out about JerryJones. Oh really, so what is
it Tuesday? Wait? No,Don Van Natta's got a story dropping.
Yeah, oh you know it's gonnabe deeper and yeah, good get man.
That's a cool, good stuff forsure. Cool. Yeah, and
(23:10):
we'll compound it with Dusty Sleigh tomorrow. Yeah, Danny Danger's Morning News.
Well, let's follow up some awardwinning winning journalism with some more award winning
journalism with this tease, did RickyMartin get a pant full of bone at
a Madonna concert? Stick around andfind out
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