All systems go: Reviewing Rockets’ epic 2025 offseason to date

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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Cheers, Rockets fans, Welcome to the Logger Line, an exclusive
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The Logger Line.

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Speaker 1 (00:26):
The Logger Line starts now. Welcome aboard.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
This July, the Houston Rockets are all systems. Go with that.
Welcome into another fresh episode of the Logger Line, as
always served to you, Curtsey if Houston's carback brewing. I'm
Ben Dubos, your host, editor of USA Today's Rockets Were
and contributor to Sports Talk seven ninety official Flag Show
Rodo siation of your Houston Rockets Today. I'm joined by

(00:59):
Powlo alv Our, co host and producer out of Portugal.
It's only been about ten days since we last recorded together.
That was back on the Sunday afternoon that the Rockets
reached the trade agreement for Kevin Durant. But it's crazy
how much has happened in just a little more than
a week since the Rockets agreed to new contracts with
two starters, Javari Smith Junior and fred Dinfleet technically they

(01:22):
also did with Aaron Holliday, J Schantit and Jeff Green,
but obviously those aren't quite of the same importance as
the two starters. But then within the first two hours
of free agency opening on Monday night, the Rockets reached
multi year deals with Dorian Finney Smith and Clint Capella.
With Finny Smith, I think we sort of knew that
going in. It was widely reported for a couple of

(01:43):
days that the Rockets were looking at him as a
three and D wing replacement for Dylan Brooks. But Capella,
given that it's the center position, that was the shocker.
And I think all of us were just sort of
scrambling and wondering if something bigger about to happen should
be be playing around with Rockets Bucks deals on the
trade machine with all Prin, Shoon and Giannis. But then

(02:06):
when you look deeper, and also I did some digging
on my own with sources that I have inside the building,
I don't think it's, at least for now, anything that complex.
When you look at the numbers, Clint is actually going
to be getting paid less in this coming season than
Jacques Landel was last year, and Clint is undeniably a

(02:26):
way better player. I mean, he's been a double double
starter in the league for like ten years now. Now.
In terms of team building, it could open up possibilities
down the road for a bigger trade if you have
Cappella waiting in the wings to plug and play, or
maybe Capella becomes tradable salary himself. Because the deals very
team friendly. Three years twenty one million, by the way,

(02:47):
Finny Smith four years fifty three million last year, non guaranteed.
There's a lot of directions that this could go. But
what's clear in both cases, and especially with Capella, it's
a good contract. It gives them all sorts of optionality,
and that's certainly a hallmark of the Rafelstone era. But
beyond that, it also makes them a better basketball team,

(03:08):
and I think that's the focus right now in a
season where the Rockets are all in on contending. Steven
Adams has a ton of mileage on his legs. So
Jacques Landale did play some last year, even though he
was the third string center in name and compels an upgrade.
He's just thirty one, and while he's not the same
athlete that he was when his career started in Houston

(03:29):
all those years ago. He is still something of a
lot threat, and so he gives you a different dimension
than Steven does or even Shooon does if you think
you need it. Landale just simply couldn't do that. He
doesn't have the same tools. So at the end of
the day, it helps you with team building. That's the
contract side and the basketball side. Yeah, he's an upgrade

(03:50):
relative to the guy that had the same role last season.
And while Clint is definitely overqualified for that role having
been a starter for most of his career, it's not
like he traded for him. He signs here knowing the
role that's available and also what's not available. So he's
going in eyes wide open. Maybe he just wants to
go home and enter a different phase of his career

(04:13):
and just do whatever he can to win a title
on a legit contender. Obviously, he's still looking for his
first ring because we know how close he came before
falling short in twenty eighteen on the Rockets that were
basically one ham string away or one Scott Foster away.
There's also the world where maybe the Rockets plan on
doing even more double big with Shingoon and Steven Adams.

(04:34):
And if that's the case, if Steven Adams becomes something
closer to a quasi starter, then maybe third string on
the depth chart is actually closer to second string. We'll
have to wait and see what imo Udoka chooses to
do in training camp. Anyway, because I've done a few
mini pods in the ten days or so since our
last full show, I've shared my perspective on the non

(04:57):
capella items plenty, So I'm going to let Paolo take
the lead on today's spot. If you want more perspective
for me, just check out the archives at wherever it
is that you're listening right now. So, Polo, I'm going
to hand the reins over to you. Where do you
want to start? What stood out to you most as
far as the last week to ten days of Houston
Rockets fandom?

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, I think the most important thing. The most important
is that we adds. Is this means that Jabaris in
a cunt extension, even though it's not necessarily the most
exciting or it's not new, mostly because it came with
at a point where we were getting linked to Tarrian
Finnie Smith. It was starting to look like and obviously
pre kV trade there was a lot of talk about

(05:40):
Jabarti in the extent, and then then he came out
with the little video where he said he wanted to
have more ball handling duties, and it kind of looked
like one of those types of things where the player
has played the role thus far ever wants to be
something better and sometimes, you know, especially amidst extension talk,
sometimes that means the player wants to go elsewhere or

(06:01):
that they're not reaching an agreement. There were a lot
of little clues that something might not be right, so
much so that I wouldn't necessarily expecting them to reach
a deal, and maybe he would hit free agency, maybe
he would be a part of the deal for KD
I would I always said, I hoped he wasn't, but
maybe that could be one of the things that happened.
And so when it happened to me, it signaled that, Okay,

(06:23):
you know, the Rockets are committed to Tabari. They see
what dived intone, you know, and what a lot of
people say, which is, you know six or eleven guys
that are good shooters and switch on defense or don't
grow on trees, right, So anybody wants to play it
like that, Uh, and and and allows you to build
teams in a variety of different ways. Especially, it wasn't

(06:45):
that he gives even in the double bit lineup. You
can go triple bit with him at the three and
you're not really lacking on the defense. And so there's
a lot of things that you that obviously go into
it with the price tag. I love that it's obviously
on a per year basis. I have my cap hit
in front of.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Me five years, twenty two million, so it's about twenty
four million in average annual value.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, but I'm guessing because of the deal that we
signed afterwards that this is a you know, normal scaling deal, right,
I think it's going to be twenty one million year one,
twenty two or close to twenty three years to twenty
four and then twenty six by the time. This is
obviously about twelve percent of a CAB the entire way through.
I think this is the equivalent to what the MLEE

(07:30):
would be lightly above, but period'st but in a few
seasons prior because the cap the cap capt raising the
them LEE is obviously as a lower percentage of this.
To say, I think it's it's an amazing deal. I
think even if tib doesn't become any better than what
he is now, it's a fine deal. If Tibody progresses
anything at all, it's a steal. And this is exactly

(07:53):
what you want to do when this is exactly what
you wanted to do. When you have guys that you're
extending for under the max, you want to extend them
for as many years as possible. Because it's a fallacy
in every NBA contract, in every fan player from off
his perspective across the entire league, people always failed to

(08:14):
account to what the contract is worth five years from now,
because five years from now the NBA is going to
be completely different. It's currently projected to be the salary cap,
which nobody sits at, is to pretend to be two
hundred million the first April, which says, you know, the
typical what contending teams typically judge by sometimes second April,

(08:35):
but the first Ape is going to be two hundred
and fifty four million. Javar is going to be making
twenty six million at that point. That's just an insanely
low number for a guy that can impact the game
as well as Jabari Caap and obviously we know you
can speculate on him playing with KD what he can
learn from from him. Obviously, all the guy yachts with that.
So I was just insanely happy that we got the
extension done with Jabaru and it kind of brings me

(08:58):
to a little bit of a little bit of a
pattern that I have. The pattern that I've been seeing
with rockets extensions, which is we were so bad for
so long and we had so many prospects at the
same time that we didn't besides Yellow and Green, we
didn't give we didn't really give high usage throughout a
sustainable amount of time to any of our guys. Shan

(09:20):
Gun didn't get a max extension. Why because he had
one season of being that good, right, So there's a
little bit of doubt it can bring the price down Kibari. Obviously,
if Kabai had gone to a team that didn't have
Jill and Green, Kpja apron ching Dun Christian Wood ahead
of him, all these guys, he would probably have even
even our reason as all those share minutes with he

(09:41):
would probably put up better stats which would have led
to that are volume stats which would have would have
led to a higher figure. Because as much as we
want to say that everybody looks at it. Everybody looks
at efficiency. Volume doesn't matter, especially for perception around the league.
And so I think we got think on a better
the on our team friendly deal because she didn't have

(10:02):
them much exposure to being that good. Jamari the same thing,
and I think since we're kind of slow cooking all
of these development curves, it leads to us being able
to get guys on these cheaper deals. And there's examples
of this across the league. When you look at Jeron
Jackson Junior, before the big deal that he just signed,

(10:23):
he was on twenty millionaire because by the time he
got to his extens and he wasn't the bona fide
defensive player of the year. Contended that he is now.
Same thing happened to a less successful extent. But when
the Spurs extended the John J. A. Murray, he was
making near twenty million a year at the time and
he jumped. He made that jump one year prior to
his extension kicking in. It was already signed, and so

(10:45):
he was on a really team friendly deal for a
long time before he signed his later extension again fell
off the map. There's more and more examples of players
like these these, and I think with Tari, if they
are able to reach a deal, is going to be
something similar that happens with All and All, and I'll
spend a lot of time on the very small tenior,
but I love the extension and I hope we can
get one done with Tary as well, because more likely

(11:07):
than not, if you signed an extension with Tari, it's
widely going to be less than Jabari, and it's probably
going to be a bargain as well.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
So let me jump in real quick on Jabbari. So
clearly this is a trend if the Rocket's getting fairly
favorable contracts. And I'm sure you'll have something to say
about the deal they gave to Fred, taking him from
forty five down to twenty five and next year's salary
better than either of us said hoped, and that giving

(11:37):
him access to the non tax payermid level exception which
allowed them to sign to Oriy On Betty Smith, there's
a whole chain effect here. With Fred, it's about this
coming season's roster. With Jabbari, it's about years to come
and what that allows the Rockets to do. But the
bottom line is led by Rafelsone and Eli Whitis, Patrick
Furtida as well. They negotiated very well, and so they've

(11:58):
been getting all this praise nationally. Brian Windhors called it
an organizational hot streak, which I know you love. Paolo
timbon Thomps in Order the Windhorse Podcast had this to
say about the front office. It's a sign of smart,
long term strategic planning by the Rockets for the last
couple of years. They've done a phenomenal job of that.

(12:19):
The one contract they signed that I didn't like was
the Jalen Green deal and they turned it into Kevin Durant,
and the Green deal served its purpose as salary filler
for a star. They've done a great job of managing
these salaries and getting all these guys signed to good contracts,
and that's what you have to do moving forward. Obviously,
the Rockets are going to get very expensive at some point,
and they're probably gonna lose one of these young players

(12:41):
or somebody off their team because they're going to get
too expensive at some point in the future. But by
having all of these good deals and making smart negotiations
throughout these things and saving a few bucks here and there,
it probably saves you at least a player in the
long term, and that can make a gigantic difference when
you have all these teams competing in a pretty level
financial environment referring to the new CBA and the second

(13:02):
apron world of the current NBA. So there's a lot
of things to unpack there, but I think what ties
it all together is the Rockets do not approach these
negotiations Willie Nelly. They are detailed. They are looking for
every margin advantage they can find. It's good management, it's
good alignment from ownership to the for an office to

(13:24):
the head coach. If you're a listener to this podcast,
you know that we have been high on Rafelstone for years.
This is why I've got a theory for you, Paolo,
and this is why I wanted to jump in here
before we move on from Jabari. I actually think that
the Kevin Durant negotiations in June may have been an
inflection point for this deal, because we know the Suns

(13:46):
were inquiring about Jabari, and we had talked about in
June's podcast that there were multiple financial pathways and the
most reasonable ones, you know, some combination of Dylan, Jacques Landale,
Aaron Holliday, your veterans and or expiring. And then the
two young assets that were most discussed were Jalen and Jabari.
And so there's been some talk this week about why

(14:08):
did the Rockets have this deal with Jabari agreed to
even before the extension window opened on July first, in
contrast to last year when Jalen and Shongoon went down
to the wire. I actually think the Rockets might have
used these negotiations as a leverage point, saying, hey, what
are you going to be on our books for moving forward?

(14:28):
And then you know, the more information you had, the better.
And once they saw, hey, Jabbari on five years, one
hundred and twenty two million versus Jalen and the mid
thirties AaB and then being up for a new deal
after what would have been just the first year of
Jabari's extension. And if Jalen plays well at all, he's
going to get at least the same average annual value,
if not more. If he plays poorly, then doesn't matter.

(14:49):
You'd love to trade him because at that point is
just bad. So knowing that you had Jabari on this deal,
in my opinion, basically steal Jalen's fate as far as
him being the on that the Rockets send to Phoenix.
So it's good planning. And I also think it could
be exactly why this deal got done early because the
Rockets needed before they made a final decision on what

(15:11):
the KD trade package was going to be, they needed
to know, Okay, what's GABORI got to be on the
book score and once they saw that it's this deal,
they had to keep them. That's my theory. Does that
make sense to you?

Speaker 3 (15:23):
So I definitely buy it. And in looking at how
this pharnacesis done business, you know, up to this point,
I think it makes all the sense in the world
that they had the negotiation the extension agreed to prior
to making a decision on a Cavin roundtree, which makes
it make even more sense than we since very early
on knew Or it was reported that the Rockets did
not want to include Kevori Smith and that that was

(15:44):
a sticking point in the negotiatings, and Simson tim the
Rockets don't want to give them up. And I think
that also, you know, you use that to talk about
the Houston side of thing. I think that also explains
that also says a lot about GABARTI, because the other
thing that I think Kevor should get commended for is
that he was a starter. He got hurt, he came back,

(16:04):
and he came back off the bench, and he dromped out.
There was no lack of effort. There is no not
a single sign that he was more content. And even
after that year that he had, he can he signed
an extension. I think there is a very real world
in which if lebody wants or or has the ambition
to be more than a role player, I think he

(16:25):
can be that here. But I think he has a
much greater chance of being that if he goes to
the Suns, where there's no competition at his position. And
I think the fact that he was deadly he was
willing to sign this still here, he could have very
well been traded to the and an extension there. The
fact that he signed this extension here also shows you

(16:46):
that he wants to be here, that he likes being
in Houston, and that his preference was to stay. Because
if he wanted to go, he will just tell the hey,
I want this ultrageous price to stay, so you might
as well train me. That's an easy conversation. Traveliz agent
if he wants to go, if he has even a
slight a slight leaning towards going, it's very easy to

(17:06):
pull off because at that point that's what the sales want,
if that's what Tabari wants, and Rockets at that point,
you know, the Rockets, you know, like it or not.
Rockets also, like Kellen Green, at that point, Rockets will
probably just you know, it's an obvious churst to Saint
Levariu instead. So I think that also shows how Keberry
wanted to stay and I wanted to kind of use

(17:29):
the used what you were saying and segue it into
the Dardan Phinis Smith as well. When it comes to
you know, shrewd negotiations, negotiating and getting guys at you know,
blow market value numbers, I think Darian Phinnish Smith is
also a masterful negotiation not because of scouting or anything
like that. I think it's or because they one of

(17:50):
the Dylan Brooks replacement. I think there's a lot of
there's a couple of circumstances that point to Torium Smith
Kinnie Smith as being an ideal kind of for what
the Rockets want to do. First of all, being that
he is thirty two. He's thirty two, and he is
an art of an arch type that ages pretty well.
Usual guys that can shoot forty percent from three in

(18:12):
playue defense that typically stays around for a long time.
What do you typically get slow at is if you're
more of a guard defender, and if you're more of
a or you're smaller or euro game relies on quickness
off and so though those other traits I usually go so.
But at thirty two years old, you're not old. And
for the current NBA, you can typically plan until thirty

(18:33):
five thirty six pretty comfortable. And so targeting a guy
that's thirty two makes it more likely that he will
be willing to take a lower average number per year
and exchange for a longer deal, which is what the
Rockets did, which is what the Rockets want to do,
because if you're trying to build long term sustainability, you
want lower AAVs over more type because you know that's

(18:55):
the market inefficiency that longer deals in the back end
are not being valued correctly. I don't think across the
league by anybody other than the clayers of CIGN Mix contracts.
And then besides that, there were news that came out

(19:17):
that Robe Lincoln was telling other dms that there's an
issue with Ardan Phinich Smith's This was an LA reporter.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
I believe that there were.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Issues with Iardan Phinnich Smith's knee, and that that information
came back to Dardan Finnis Smith's camp, and he was
pissed at the Lakers for, you know, spreading that out
there to try and lower his value, to try and
retain him for cheaper. And the Rockets were smart, Hey
they saw I mean, who's to tell rafel'stone wasn't the
one that leaked that information. I'm not I'm not saying anything.

(19:47):
I don't I have no information about this, But who's
to say that Rafelstone is not the one who went
got an information they were interested in? Finnish Smith went
to talk with his agent. It was like, hey, there's
people telling me that there's a knee issue here. And
the agent's like, oh, wait a minute, what do you
mean any issue? That isn't any any issue at all
his medical records. And they figure out, well, the only

(20:10):
team that's encouraged to say something like that would be
the Lakers, and so that would be another market inefficiency
you're taking a random of a player who all of
a sudden if he doesn't want to come back to
the Lakers, who are the team that has his early
bird rights and can or even full bird rights, I'm
not sure, and can offer doesn't matter in this context,
and can offer him the most money. I think it's

(20:30):
I think it's pretty dune that during Phinis Smith is
making less money in this deal per year than he
was in his previous deal, and I think his previous
to was not was signed at a point in which
he was not as good as a player or as
recognized as a player as he is not, So it
was pretty smart in its own regard. And then talking
about the deal in specific obviously, as we talked about

(20:54):
four years, but the fourth year, I think it's both one.
We don't have the full details yet, but I think
it it was reported that it's both non guaranteed and
a team option. There's some CBA stuff going on there,
because if it's both non guaranteed and a team option,
you can't have more guaranteed money in the fourth year
than you do in the third year. So if it's

(21:15):
non guaranteed on the fourth year, it's also not guaranteed
for at least the same amount in the third year,
so we know, we're not quite sure how those guarantees work.
It might be that it's not guaranteed for five million
of the fourteen years old, or it's not guaranteed for
five year in each of the last two years, or
it could be something like that. But anyhow, it gives

(21:37):
you flexibility. And this is something that I want that
I really want to hammer home because people with our
people and I think rightly, so we're talking about Tolly'd
rather sign a shooting guard that the team needs some
dribble penetration. We can go into the merits of, you know,
the Rockets philosophy when going for all these wings. But
I want to touch on Darren Finish Smith in a vacuum,

(21:58):
which is even if let's say Darin Phinni Smith is
not the correct fit because there are not enough minutes available.
Treesians have an incredible season, Kavari is having an incredible season.
Kd is obviously going to play a lot a man
he is is who a man is going to get
some wing minutes as well. And you reach and you
you're struggling to give Dorian Finnish Smith more than fifteen minutes. Again,

(22:21):
in this deal, I think the Rockets in a vacuum
just created an asset. Dorian Phinnis Smith at twelve million
a year, to me is more than a fair vally deal,
and I think a lot of other teams would have
been willing to sign them to sign them for that,
which means that at the deadline a contender is going
to one a now at dodi in finish Smith, he
fits into the email into the non tax emily of anything,

(22:43):
if not at the deadline this year, at the start
of next year, and I'm pretty confident that the Rockets
will be able to flip them for a first round pick,
for example, because he is available role player. He was
traded for something similar to that Phenomena's sake, and I
can bring it right now when he got to the
Lakers as an ex aspiring and so I pretty confidently
can say that even if Darrin Phoinix Smith doesn't work

(23:05):
as a Rocket because he's not the correct positional fit,
the Rockets can easily flip them for an asset. And
basically they treated the mL for a firsh On pick,
which is a pretty good trade if you ask me. So,
if you don't want to look at this move as
a strictly contender move, it's also an assa generated because

(23:25):
Darren Phinnix Smith is clearly not overpaid on the Rockets
and the dealer Rockets gave him, I would argue he
is underpaid. I don't know if you want to turn
anything Dorian Phoenix Smith role. And I was going to
hold on to Capello.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Well, I was gonna tie in Dorian with the KD
trade because I think there's an interesting lesson to be
taken from all of this. And Kevin Polton had an
article on ESPN, so Kevin Pulton's review of the Jorian
Vtie Smith side, and he gave the Rockets an A.

(23:56):
And of course he talks about all of Dorian's skills
as a player. You look at the odd off differentials
with the Lakers. He can defend Biggs, which is a
big part of what the Rockets we're looking for to
backfill the Dylan Brooks role. He shot nearly forty two
percent on threes last year. But beyond that, this is
the concluding paragraph that Kevin Pelton gets to. All of

(24:19):
that means Houston appears to have pulled off the rare
feat of upgrading star talent with Durant while not sacrificing
any depth. The Rockets are ideally suited to handle any time.
Durant likely mis during the regular season and still racked
up wins. So long as the Thunder a healthy, depending
champs are rightfully the favorites. As in twenty eighteen, however,
I think Houston is the biggest threat to a repeat

(24:41):
title for the Thunder. So we've long set on this pod,
and it's an acidom around the NBA that four quarters
doesn't equal a dollar. But I do think in recent
years there's been some pushback looking at the new CBA
and this whole idea that because you can't build super
team that depth is more important, which it is. But

(25:03):
even if there are no super teams, there are Tier
one destinations and when you get to that Tier one status,
which the Rockets clearly are now Again, the Rockets have
been doing good contracts for years. It's just now they're
getting more significant in terms of the types of players
that are coming in. Because you're coming off at fifty

(25:24):
two and thirty season number two in the West. You
just gave the extension to im Udoka, who's locked around
the league. Now you have Kevin Durant, one of the
best players of all time. They've been doing this for
a while, it's just now the market is coming in
to their favor and they're clearly a Tier one destination.
And so what that means is that if you trade

(25:45):
depth to get someone like Kevin Durant, it's not that
hard to backfill it with someone like doria A and
Finny Smith. Now there is a caveat that you can't
do what the Suns did to get Kevin Durant in
early twenty three, where you put yourself in second April.
In hell, you leave yourself no draft assets for future deals.
I mean, you have to have some baseline level of

(26:08):
financial tools or assets that you can hand out. Guys
aren't going to sign for the minimum, but as long
as you can make a competitive offer, then you can
backfill spots for the guys like Dylan Brooks, who are
good players but not indispensable. And that's a lesson that
we shouldn't We shouldn't forget because in the new CBA
you hear all this talk about depth, and yeah, you

(26:29):
shouldn't mortgage the future for a star. But if you
can acquire a star and you're give enough depth pieces
and you still have reasonable ways to replenish that depth,
if you are then a Tier one destination. We are
seeing again that yes, Houston is enough of a draw
where players will come here and they'll give up money
to make it happen. That's what ties all of these

(26:49):
deals together. Dorian signed for below the non taxpayer mL
He gave it a little bit back. The fourth year
is non guaranteed. Fred gave a ton back. Jabari gave
something back. All of these players could. Hella is way
beyond what I think most people thought he would get
all the open market. If not in money, certainly en roll.
All of these guys are giving something back in money,

(27:10):
year's role or accommodation to play for a team in
Houston that is ready to contend. Houston is not the
Lakers and the Knicks, but they're up there in terms
of NBA market. If this team is good, and especially
if they have phases of the franchise like the team
currently does with KD and em Udoka, guys will want

(27:31):
to play here. In some ways, it's sort of like
Kevin Pelton brought up twenty eighteen the preceding summer. I
remember when Houston made the big trade for Chris Paul
right around the same time as they did the KD trade.
This year, they did the CP three deal right around
the draft, and they had to pool a lot of
contracts to make it work financially, and so yeah, it
was exciting that the Rockets added Chris Paul. They'd won

(27:53):
fifty four to fifty five games the last season, got
bouched in the playoffs by the Spurs, that embarrassing Game
six where they lost by forty at home, and so
people thought Chris Paul would make them better. But there
was a little bit of apprehension at the time, people saying, well,
they gave up, you know, Pat Beverly, Lou Williams, Montres,
Harald sam Decker, a lot of either accomplished players or

(28:14):
young players with upside, and nobody was saying that the
Rocket shouldn't have done the deal. But the question was
does that actually take them from low to mid fifties
to the level of the then ironically KD led Warriors,
who were the gold standard. And so now probably after
the KD trade, there were some people questioning, hey, did
the Rockets give up enough in the deal two starters

(28:34):
from last year's fifty two win team, even with KD,
are they capable of being at the level of the
thunder Well what ended up happening in twenty seventeen. Within
a week or two, the Rockets got PJ. Tucker and
Luke Bob Mute to very friendly deals, and then you
see the whole puzzle come together and it's sort of like, hmm,
they've replenished the death, but now they have Chris Paul.

(28:54):
And that's basically what happened here is that you bring
in joy Anfonty Smith, you bring in Clint Capella and
those two guys for Dylan Brooks and Jock Landell. Relative
to last year's team, it's at least a wash, might
even be a little bit better. That's no disrespect to
those guys, but he he Spent and Capella are good players,
and you're way better with Kevin Durant in place of

(29:15):
Jalen Green. So basically it's like you brought in the Star,
you swapped Jalen for KD, and everything else is the same,
and you arguably have even more depth. Now, again, there
are some caveats in that you have to make sure,
you have at least some tools in this case. You know,
the Rockets methodically planned this out to where they knew
they would have a non tax pyramid level exception. You

(29:36):
can't do what the Sun did a couple of years
ago in sacrificing everything financially in assets to bring in
the Star. That era of the NBA is over. There's
no Lebron, Way Bosh super teams anymore, but there are
Tier one destinations and Houston. It's not LA, it's not
New York, but it's up there. And if the team
is competitive, what we have seen in recent days, in

(29:57):
recent weeks is that, yeah, this this franchise. When the
right leadership is in place and the team is coming
off for a really good year, it's a draw. Players
will want to be here, and that's led to the
sacrifices that we've seen in recent weeks to put this
roster together. And it's also something that you should remember
going forward, which is that, hey, if you can combine
four quarters and turn it into a dollar with a

(30:18):
consolidation trade, if you have the right leadership in place,
and the Rockets do with rafel Stone, Patrick Pertita and
Ima Udoka, let's throw Eli White as a shout out
as well. You can find quarters. It's not easy to do,
but you can do it, and I think doriya An
Phinney Sibith is a perfect example of that, getting him
as the Dylan Brooks replacement. So sorry for going on that, Tangent.
I just wanted to sort of close the loop on

(30:40):
the Finny Smith component and spending the non taxpayer mL EE.
Now I'll let you talk about Capella and also the
luxury tax because the interesting thing about the Capella deal
is not only what it means for the death chart
at Center, but also if they didn't bring in Capella,
there was at least a path to where the Rockets
could not pay the luxury tax season and not more

(31:01):
importantly start the repeater tax clock. In terms of projecting
out the payroll in future years. With Capella, that's pretty
much gone. They are going to be a luxury tax
team this year. So beyond talking about Clint the player,
there's also the angle of what Clint the contract does
for the financial books. So that's me setting it up
for you. Powlo, what did you think of the Capella

(31:21):
deal and also the implications that it has as far
as the tax.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
Yeah, So on the Capella deal, I was really surprised.
Uh a little bit of context. The Capella is one
of my favorite players of all time because he was
one of my favorite players when I first started watching basketball.
I know I've been doing this not for that long
a time. So I was first reaction, I was really
happy because I really like quint. Second reacting was way,
what we're going into the luxury tax. We're paying him

(31:49):
seven million to be the third string center and he's
okay being a third string center when he more than
likely could have gone to LA and been the starter. Like,
let's be real, look at the center market. LA didn't
get anybody, and there's nobody close to Queen Cappella is
still available. You can argue the Andre Aiden, the Andred
Aden is not a good basketball player, and he's proven

(32:11):
that time and time again. He has issues with his
motor and everything like that, and it's probably going to
be a lot more expensive. But being said, it got
us wondering if there was a deal, a different extra
deal coming. He got me wondering if maybe it was
misreported and Copell was going this was a sign and
trade that was more convluded. The Capella was going to

(32:31):
go somewhere else. They got me wondering if it was
kem with Moore. This was their way of getting some
value back for cam with more. It's none of that
to me. What I think it is, it's it's keeping
salary alive because if they do want to make a
Yana straight down the line, they need that salary because
having you know, you can fill salary with role players.
But if you don't have the role players to fill

(32:52):
the salary a way, you've got to fill the salary
with your your valuable young pieces. And when you look
at it, prime Guithline Goop in a Star Treate is Reaepherd,
who's making eleven million while Clint's making seven. He makes
up most of that difference. And now you can you
can negotiate differently and you can say hey, with no
one to include rewinklud An extra first, you take Coppella

(33:13):
instead of Capella. Is not on a deal that's going
to be undesirable, undesirable at all. It's at the very
least neutral. And it also takes a little bit of
an advantage of another market innovisions, which is there's been
a massive ruin on centers. There's no centers available, and
there's a lot of teams that need centers still, and
I think worst case scenario, if you want at the deadline,

(33:35):
you can flip win Capella. I think pretty comfortably four
with second round tick or the posy ground picks and
expiring money for the Lakers. Would you know love to
have that? And I think that'll be other teams that.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
I think those Simmons had the hilarious tweet about the
Rockets have three starting centers and the Celtics have nobody.
It's time to start drinking. So yeah, and the Celtics
in the East, might you know that might be the
type of team that you know wants to at least
stay relevant.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
I do not respect that comment because Namas Kada is
the current Celtic starter and I will not tolerate any
slander of Namias Kada or first Portuguese NBA player of
all time.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Oh I didn't realize that it was Portuguese. Oh he
is might be bad, My bad, Okay.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Sorry, it's all right, it's all right. I do think
he's underrated, and I do think since since all the
way back is his days in Utah, he I think
he can be Isaiah hartensteinlike with better defense because he
is a little bit of a he's a good passer
out of than the art the shark role. That being said,
so Capella deal, I think it's a newtral deal. I

(34:34):
think I think the major take away from it is
the luxury text part, which I'll get into after I
talk about frevently kind of didn't order this in the
correct way, but let's go with it. For evently, twenty
five is way lower than anybody expected. It's still fifty
million again or teeth for fifty million over two years
is completely different than fifty million over one year. And

(34:54):
I think it's actually pretty likely that he doesn't take
that twenty five million option next year and signs a
longer term deal at a lower AAV pretty regardless of
the season that he has. But you know, nobody expected
it to be that low. If it allows us to
go after the Darrian Phoinix Smith, it allows us to
go after Quinn Capella and Bush comes to shove. I'm
not going to discard this option yet. Trevan Vleet, Darrian

(35:19):
Phoinix Smith, Quinn Capella and I don't know, probably need
another salary in there. Is enough to go get Lebron James.
He asks out at that line, So I mean, if
you slot Lebront as the point CD, it could work.
It's the tallest team ever, you don't have anybody in
the starting lineup under sixty seven. But it could work.
But obviously that's not the main point.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
I will say on Fred's deal, I do think and
this is true of more than Fred, but I think
it certainly applies to him as well. I think there's
a there's a lot of trust that goes into these
negotiations in which the Rockets are basically saying, we'll give
you what we can reasonably afford, do you trust us
to make it work? And that's where the rafel Stone

(36:04):
regime is so different than Darryl Morey, and that they
spend a lot more time cultivating relationships with players with
agents to where there's more trust equity. I think we
saw it in how the contracts for Aaron Holliday, j
Shuntate and Jeff Green leaked as well, and that they
didn't initially say they were minimum deals because if they
had a little bit more money, I guess if they

(36:25):
didn't sign Clint Capella, then maybe those guys were gotten
a little bit more than the minimum, but they just
sort of and the players and the agents trust them
when the Rockets say, look, we'll take care of you
as best we can. If we can't do it this time,
we'll try to get you back in the future. But
I think the element that is seen throughout all these
negotiations is trust. And so I think that's why you

(36:49):
see Fred give back more than we expected, because he
values that relationship. In Fred's case, it's been widely reported
that he expects to be here long term, not just
talking a year or two. We're talking, you know, this
generation of Houston Rockets basketball. So yeah, there's gonna be
some negotiations where the team might have a little bit
more money. In this case, they had a little bit less,
or at least they had less if they wanted to
put a title contender on the floor next season. So

(37:10):
it is what it is. But I think the trust
component of it, that's something that you know, we talked
about it early in Fellstone's tenure at being a big
contrast from Jeryl Morey, and time will tell as to
how it works out. How well right now it's working out.
Sorry for interjacting. But I just think that's an important
note to sort of underscore in these negotiations.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, and that to what you just said, I mean,
just look at even besides the good will, we just
look at the numbers. I mean, it was obvious from
the beginning when they first signed Fred that Fread was overpaid.
But the Rockets were in a position and where they
didn't care if Fred was overpaid because everybody else was
on a rookie deal, and so it made all the
sense in the world to pay Fred an absurd amount

(37:49):
of money for two years and to cultivate as relations hippen.
So and now you see, you're seeing the rewards out
of that commitment that you made way back then.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Because one more thing that I wanted to for out,
I had this in my notes. I got sidetracked. So
do you remember the meltdown on the second day of
free agency twenty twenty three when the Rockets discarded ty
Ty Washington and Usman Garuba, who ends up being worth
nothing to the Atlanta Hawks, And the deal would have
needed to be done if the Rockets signed Brooklopez. Then

(38:20):
brook Lopez vernagged on his deal, but the Rockets went
through with the Hawks component anyway, you know how the
Hawks or you know how the Rockets are acquiring Clint
Capella from the Hawks. Yep. So there's a good relationship
between the porn offices. And at the end of the day,
nobody's crying, or nobody should be crying over losing freaking
ty Ty Washington and usban Garuba. So even a little

(38:42):
thing like that, you can argue that that relationship paid
off this week.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Yeah, and to that point about those guys in Gouncoppela,
all our people are pointing out that Druckets gave up
a second round pick to get gn Capell in the
sinal trade. Guys, they didn't, and I misthread it as well,
and I twittered about it today. It's not we're not
giving them a secon round pick. We're swapping second round
picks with the Hawks. Which listen, even if even if

(39:12):
we are they are the best team in the league,
which they won't be by twenty thirty one, and we
are the worst team in the league by twenty thirty one,
which we won't be. Knock on wood, even at that point,
you're not giving up a second round pick. You can
still throw the secround pick in other trades. It's just
a swap. It's one of the most widespread things in
the league. If you go look at any team's second
round picks, sifu Asia, they're a moon to swap. There's

(39:33):
there's a rare situation where it's a a now tried
seconnd pick.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
They're all swaps.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Dogs give up basically nothing to get Flynn Cappella besides
the money obviously, but to close the loop on on
fre than lead. If you look at you know, obviously
Trailer is making forty and then forty two if I'm
not mistaken million a year, so that's eighty two million
a year. With this twenty five, that's one hundred and
seven million a year. That's what thirty thirty five, thirty six,

(40:01):
maybe thirty five points something millionaire, which when you look
at it as as those three years, thirty three million
a year is still a good contract for Fred. But
that's his right, Jay, that's a reasonable number, and so
that goes to show that this is a little bit
of a payoff from giving Fred all that money earlier
on because it worked out. If it happened worked out,

(40:22):
Fred would have just left. But it worked out. They
wanted to extend that relationship. Paying Fred took into consideration
the fact that the Rockets took care of him early on,
and that's really that extra layer. And now'll use this
to get into the literary tact as well. That's really
that extra layer of what an excellent from office does.
And it's something that's been apparent since the beginning of

(40:42):
the Raffelstont tenure. Raffaelstone knew James Startler was going to
ask for a trade, and so what did he do.
He traded with Robert Covington before it was public that
Kevin Tarden was going to ask for a trade. Why
because at that point Rockets are contenders. If you want
to take a key piece from a contenter, you're going
to have to pay a premium. So somebody paid two
for shohnp picks for Robert Comington and from that point on,

(41:03):
Robert Covington was never traded for even one for shoun
Pick and Rocktet at Donk got too. Taking the James
Hardened deal over digging the Brooklyn deal, over the Sixers deal,
and using the Sixers are queer leverage because let's be honest,
they were never going to take Pen Simmons there was leverage,
kept things to get Brooklyn to and protect all the picks,
and then over time you see a lot of those

(41:24):
little things.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
And I know.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
People talk about Ruffleston's not created asset management or whatever
it might be. Listen, Asset management is not just saving
second round picks at every turn. Asset management is making
the full use, for example, of your mL and signing
and any GAT that you see that may have potential
get signed to a four year minimum contract because if

(41:46):
he has that upside and if he strike lightning in
the bottle, you want to be in a position to
capitalize on it. The entire situation with Fred van vleit's
a great example of this. Look at Dylan Brooks. Dylan
books was traded and perhaps not blindsided, but you didn't
see you know, Dylan Brooks is a very you know,
heated personality. You didn't see a single post, a single news,

(42:08):
No news came out, nothing of resemblement. If you go back,
I know it was a little bit more troublesome, but
if you go back to how he had said to Memphis,
there was a lot of trouble then and a lot
of news that came out, and that was a really
sour way to go out. In this case, it wasn't.
And then Dylan contraded to a much worse situation.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
I mean, let's be.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Honest, He's not going to contend in Phoenix, in Phoenix,
not even close, and he wasn't so honesting that's going
to biker. Then there was just a two C. So
his situation got a lot worse, but he got taken
care of. He got a four year deal twenty million
a year. Drugers were in a position where they could
pay that much. That utilization of the free money that

(42:49):
they had at the time to take care of players
buys you goodwill with those specific players and with their
agents as well. And if I started in this obviously
this is where Tilman, Fartida, Triportia come in. And that's
my next point. But at no point during the entire
rebuild with the Rockets have the cheapest roster in the league,
did the Rockets be below like the Rockets were always spending,

(43:13):
not as a contender, but close to spending up to
they were up to two million shy of the luxury
tax line at certain points, doing a rebuild where owners
take the opportunity to cheep out on every possible angle.
The Rockets didn't do that, and they often made sacrifices
so in order to do right by players, and so

(43:36):
that eventually pays off. And the way I tie that
into the luctory tax thing is and I think anybody
that has any sort of any sort of connections to
the organization and knows how things work within the building,
anybody that you ask can tell you that Patrick Furstida
is the biggest blessing for this franchise since it was
in the last two years. It's Patrick Ortidi's probably a

(44:00):
better asset or probably more important than the Rockets having
stayed in the top four in the Yellow Green brath
That's how much sets how big of a difference having
good ownership is for a team because obviously, and you
can get into this because you're you know, around the building,
you know how stuff goes down more than I do.
But having the son of the owner be involved in

(44:23):
the day to day operations of the team and understanding
masketball and being a fan of the team is invaluable,
especially when the owner of the team Tilmen. When he
took over the team, Dorockets spent first round picks to
attacks and I don't think that's arguable, and now we're
at a point where the switch has completely flipped. They
spent years rebuilding with rosters that were not even in

(44:44):
the bottom half of the cheapest in the league. And
now this is the first real chance the Rockets proved
they were good last year. This is the first real
chance the Rockets could have of you know, going all
in and spending and paying luxury tax. And the instantly
did it. And it wasn't for a clear you know,
this isn't a situation of a clear you know, starting

(45:07):
piece or a key role player.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Of the men.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
No, the Rockets are paying something like if you add
the tax to Capella's salary, Capella is costing the Rockets
about nineteen millionaires if you add the Tacks and Tilman,
and you can't understate the role Patrick has in it
because Tilman trusts Patrick, and Patrick isn't the day to
day operations of the team. So he has that you know,
that touch, that understanding of how important done or how

(45:32):
the value of doing these things. If you don't have
perfect for Tid there, I would have a really hard
time believing that you could convince Tillmen to spend nineteen
million dollars on what and it's not just nineteen I'll
get into it on what is essentially either a salary
ballast a guy that will play very little or the
third string center. Like that's unbelievable, like even some of

(45:56):
the you know, we can argue the merits and we'll
get into it. The merit's a ducking attacks one more year,
even for flexibility reasons. But you cannot know, you cannot
ignore the progress that has been made. We pay five
million for a second round pick, We consistently guaranteed money
earlier than it had to be guaranteed. We did right

(46:17):
by players a week, and we, as I said, we
kept or salary level higher than they needed to be
for for a long time. And kind of the cherry
on top, And what a lot of people were asking
about was, well, when it's time to pay tax, will
tilman do it? And I think in what part because
of the results, and because of having Patrick in there

(46:37):
as a bit of a middleman, he is paying tax
at the first possible justification to pay tax, He's already
doing it. We'll see how that goes into the future,
but you know, this is the last step. Every morning,
everybody wanted to see there's basically it would be very hard.
I mean they could dumb quint Capella at the deadline
to try and dodge, but at that point salaries are
pro rated, like a part of the history will already

(47:00):
have been paid. It will be really hard to It
will be really hard to dodge the tax at this point.
And he's doing it for a third string center.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
But before.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
The big point is about Patrick, and I'll let you
get into it if you want a little bit as well,
because I know you you know what goes on within
the building. And before I move on to the brozen
cons of getting into the taxes early.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah, well, I'll make a macro point on Patrick and
then a micro point on the tax, and you can
offer your rebuttal as we close the loop on the
whole luxury tax angle. As far as Patrick, people will
get off their NEPO jokes. But he's good at his
job primarily because he cares, and that's what you need

(47:48):
most out of sports ownership. And people will say Tellman
learned his lessons from the late twenty tens when they
didn't pay the tax, and there might be some truth
in that, but I think it's more Patrick wasn't in
the equation that Patrick is thirty years old. He graduated
from USC Southern California and not South Carolina, to be clear,

(48:10):
in May of twenty seventeen, and Tilman bought the Rockets
in October of twenty seventeen. Patrick was not qualified, nor
was Tilman going to insert his son into the day
to day decision making process of a front office that
was as accomplished as the one led by Darryl Morey.
There wasn't going to be that level of immediate change,

(48:34):
especially when the team is winning sixty five games. So
there wasn't that conduit between Tillman and the front office
in the Moury years, and it was in circumstances. Patrick
was too raw. He was just out of college. And
it's not that he had some secret sauce. I do
think he genuinely cares. He's smart, he takes the time
to learn analytics, but the biggest part of it is

(48:56):
that he genuinely cares, and just circumstances his age. How
a stylished the part office was made it to where
when Tilman bought the team, a sixty five and seventeen
team that he inherited, it just did not make sense
for Patrick to take on that type of role with
the structure at that time. When things changed was in

(49:17):
twenty twenty when Daryl was on his way out. Rafell
then took the job and that was where you could
make some structural changes as to the day to day
and that's when the decision started to look much more
strategic because there was that liaison between Tilman and the
front office. There was more alignment. So some of it

(49:37):
might be that Tilman learned some harsh lessons from the
twenty tens, but I just think that the structure is
better now and it's tough to replicate because you know,
Patrick grew up as a kid, a diehard fan of
Houston sports teams. Like for any of our veteran listeners,
people that are forty years old or older like me,

(49:58):
go on YouTube and pull up the Albert Pouhol's home
run off of Brad Ledge in the two thousand and
five MLB Playoffs. It was as devastating a singular moment
as I think I've ever seen in Houston sports, at
least as shocking a singular moment when you consider the
Astros were one out from their first ever World Series

(50:19):
getting to the World Series, their first ever pennant, and
had what was believed to be an elite closer on
the mound. If you look behind home plate in those
Sillman seats, everybody knows where they are. If you watch
the Astros roll one Diamond Club, you will see the
soul of a ten year old Patrick Fertita leaving its body.

(50:39):
It was devastating to him, and I joke with him
about it to this day. But that shows you how
much he cares. And so when the owner is actually
in it because there's an emotional connection, it's different. I'm
not saying that other owners don't care. But when your
level of care is because you view the team as

(51:00):
of a glamour asset, then while certainly you want good
things for the team, you start looking for short cuts.
Is there a way I can get to what really
matters to me while saving a little money in the process.
If you are emotionally invested about the winning component, and
everybody says they are, but in a landscape that's this competitive,

(51:24):
even the slightest, the slightest cuts can make all the difference.
There are no cuts here, at least not now, because
to Patrick, there is an intense emotional connection to winning.
And while I'm not saying that, you know every front
office position should be filled by a diehard fan of
the team, Obviously that could have some negative consequences. Just

(51:47):
imagine what it would look like if you gave the
keys through the Rockets front office to those of us
on Rockets, Twitter, Rockets, Blue Sky, whatever your network of choices,
Rockets Reddit. In terms of this unique role for Patrick
as the liaison between Tilman Furtita who bought the team
in twenty seventeen, and in front office with Tilman being
the ambassador to Italy, now Patrick's basically the owner himself.

(52:10):
Having that level of emotional connection is rare. People will
say they want their team to win, and on some
level they do, but it's deeper than that. For Patrick,
it goes back to his childhood and so that's the
value add and I agree with you it's a unique
structure for the Rockets that works, and it might even
be better than the Gerald Moore years. That's not to

(52:30):
necessarily compare Darryl to Verfell or then to now, but
I do think it's at least a conversation that can
be had when you look at the quality of deals
that the Rockets just continue to stack and the upward
trajectory that this franchise right now is clearly on starget.
With you give Patrick his flowers. He deserves so much

(52:51):
credit for this. The micro point I wanted to get to,
I think the luxury tax, this whole discussion of are
they really paying the luxury tax for a third string center?
It's not just Clint Capella's role. It's about the optionality.

(53:12):
And we've talked about it in recent years when they
had guys like Jock Landale and Jeff Green on these
mid tier salaries that ultimately weren't traded, but the Rockets
gave them these basically seven eight million dollar expiring deals
because they could be used in a trade, and even
though it didn't work out, just having the optionality, you know,

(53:33):
there's value in simply being able to make the calls
and to see what's out there. And I think that's
what's going on here. The tradable salary if you need,
as you alluded to, follow, Clint's on a very good
contract now about seven million dollars a year for a
guy who's still capable of being a solid starter at
center in the NBA. He can bring in more second

(53:54):
round picks if you need draft equity, if something huge
comes available, like honest, and that's not going to be
anytime soon. Because if Miles Turner going to Milwaukee, but
if by in the middle part of the season, Giannis
comes available and you think it makes sense to do
an all per eh and Goon plus package for him, Okay,
then Capella is there to backfill the center minutes along

(54:15):
with Steven Adams. I don't know which, if any of
those things is going to happen, but that's what you're
going into the tax for. It's the options. It's not
just one player. Just as with Jeff Green and Jay Sharontet,
it wasn't just about their contributions and the stats they
put up in a given year. It was the options

(54:35):
that provided them. For an office also a little bit
with regards to leadership and culture, Clint is very well
received in those areas. Framing it as paying the tax
for a third string center misses the mark. It's deeper
than that. It's about the optionality. And as I said
in June, once it was told to me that the
Rockets viewed themselves as championship caliber with Kevin Durant. I

(54:57):
expected the deal to happen and it done because these
opportunities do not come along very often. And along that
same wavelength, I don't think the Rockets wanted to straddle
the tax line in this first season with Kevin Durant.
By that, I mean straddle the line to stay just
beneath it. No, they want to give themselves every opportunity,

(55:21):
and so beyond just what you might do with Clint's
salary slot, you also have more wiggle room. Period. You're
not on pins and needles with every move you make,
thinking well, if I switch out these two way guys
or make a waiver claim, does this push me over
the line.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
No.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
You have Kevin Durant, one of the greatest players in
NBA history, and we don't know when he's going to decline.
We know this year is probably going to be as
good as you'll get considering his age, and the Rockets
through the window is open. Given all of those factors,
I don't think they wanted to walk the line this
year having that cloud hanging over them. Well, we might

(55:58):
think that this could help help us, but we don't
want to do it because it would push us over
the tax No. They don't want to feel like their
hands are tied behind their backs. And there are counter
arguments you can make, for sure, in terms of the
Repeter tax and what it means for three or four
years down the line. But I just think the argument
that won the day you have Kevin Durant. This is

(56:19):
a special player. It's as good as he's going to
be in your uniform. So do you really want to
try and play out this season with one hand sort
of tied behind your back because you're constantly worried about
that tax line. I think the more they looked at it,
the more they came to the conclusion that, you know what,
let's give us more options, Let's not box ourselves in,

(56:41):
and we'll see what two, three, four years from now
looks like at that time. Maybe you know, after Katie,
when his salary rolls off the books, maybe you can
duck back under. But I just think we won the day.
It wasn't just Clint Capella or any one position. It
was about the optionality, and so Clint can be used
or not used in number of ways. But beyond that's
just it would have been very difficult after signing Doriannthinny

(57:03):
Smith to stay beneath the tax line. Possible, but difficult,
And I just don't think they wanted that hanging over
them all year. I think they wanted the options to
do different things, trade signings, waiver claims, you name it.
And the path they chose gives them more options for
this year. There are potentially consequences down the line. We'll
see if those manifests, But for now, I mean, it's

(57:24):
just more evidence that the Rockets are all in. I mean,
that's that's pretty much the bottom line for me.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Yeah, and just what's just a little bit on top
of what you said. Two more reazentals that came to
my mind. I mean one of them you gave it. Listen,
it's not any owner that pace jockline. They'll eight million
a year to just be a trade exception. The trade
exceptions don't get paid right, paying playing a guy like
Jeff Quen nine million. Jeff Green was not getting above

(57:52):
five million a year in any deal. The year before
he got to the Rockets, he wasn't earning more. I
think he was earning precisely five million a year, paying
him nine million to get in here and to have
that optionality trade first start, if maybe that's money that
could easily have been not spent and nobody would buy
the nine and just to say that the rockets are

(58:13):
not you know, there's a spectrum to this. There's the
key teams. There's a team that do what's necessary and
there's a team that that go above and beyond to
have extra optionality regardless of costs, and rockets have been
Dietypety Raphaelstone has had the freedom to work with all
of the tools in the arsenal, to explore every angle

(58:33):
of the CBA and to touch on your your micro
point of dodging the tax this year, I think the wisest,
the wiser thing to do would have probably been to
dodge tax this year, just because even even the richest
owners don't want to pay repeater tax because that's when
it gets really expensive. Like that's what you know, up

(58:54):
until repeater tax, you can go up to playing you know,
double the salary cap as a total for your team.
Once you get into repeater tax, we're talking about paying
you know, an extra an extra four hundred million dollars
per year for tax purposes. That's that's at that point,
it's that's ridiculous and you can't expect I mean, I

(59:14):
don't know if tilmoul would, but I could not, in
all seriousness expect any owner to be willing to pay
that unless it's unless it's like the Lakers or the Warriors.
Who are you know, bringing in just massive amounts of
money off the franchise. But I don't think you can
reason you could reasonably dotle the tax. While signing Darrian
Phinnis Smith, you could be within two million of dodging

(59:36):
the tax. He could maybe get there. This is after
obviously after trading with more for the minimum guy. You
could maybe get there if you play the round with
waving players and signing players two weeks two weeks later
to save the two weeks of say the two weeks
of salary, and you do that over the season, you
can shed some salary. It could even make somewhat of

(59:57):
a larger trade to lose some money. You would have
been on the edge the entire season, and it would
have been pretty You have to have a lot of
roster turnover and you would assescially on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Those lower positions. Yeah, and that's the point I was trying.
I think we're actually in agreement there. It would have
been very difficult to do. Not impossible, but very difficult.
And I think that's why, you know, maybe the decision
was Dory Anthony Smith and not Clint Capella. Maybe that's
the better way to frame it. Once they went to
non tax for mL level, that were sort of making
that decision for themselves. And so it's not just Klean,

(01:00:31):
it's also Dori On and how the whole puzzle fits together.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Yeah, and so when you look at it that way,
I can I can more more easily get behind paying
the tax this year, and realistically it's going to be hard.
But the way that the repeater tax works is you've
got to be if you've paid the luxury tax to
be of the last four years, you are in repeater
tax territory. So you need to dune it not just

(01:00:55):
one year, and you doug it for two I believe,
or two of the last four. And so realistically you
could you could pay the acts the three years that
you have Kevin round here and then he's going to
retire and so that's a whole fifty six million dollar
off the books, and at that point you could take
a couple of years before you make another tree for
a superstand that's going to you know, inflate your cap

(01:01:17):
back up. You've got money coming off the books at
that point. Obviously, this is when a potential Read Shepherd
extensional kick in. We're so far away from that we
can project what that would look like. But you have
Steven Adams coming off the books. You can structure thread
by which next deal to end at that point as well,
and so quick Capella obviously also comes off the books
at that point, and so you could you know, have

(01:01:39):
this three years attending window twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight,
and then going into the twenty twenty eight twenty nine season,
you lose a lot of these support pieces. You have
a more bare bones team, and you kind of you know,
have a couple of seasons where you know you're not
a Tier one contender, but you're no a Tier two.
You still make the playoffs, still have Shengun, You'll still

(01:02:01):
you'll still have Kipar, You'll still have Tar, you'll still
have a Man, You'll still have Read, So you can
still build a good team, but probably not top tier contender.
And then after those two years you can obviously go
back up there and pay tacks again if you want
to DoD the repeater tax because you know, obviously they
want to have a good dending window that lasts for

(01:02:21):
the entirety of Shun's career, for example, to look at
it as a timeline or the entirety of a men's career,
and it's possible to be and when you look at
teams like the Lakers, teams like the Miami Heat, teams
like the Celtics, it's possible to be a coodn't ender
throughout that entire time. It's harder to be a Tier
one than then through the entire time, and most of
the teams aren't. They step backwards, and they take a

(01:02:43):
step back and then they attack again. And so it's
perfectly possible for the Rockets to make make that happen,
and if that's an issue, to dodge it at that point.
But in the meantime, I think it's what you said.
I think they see it as we are a real
threat to win the championship here, and if we are,
we might as well go all in, because let's get

(01:03:04):
the best. You know, the way to extract the most
value from the KD trade is to be as good
as it possibly can't give yourself as you gift shot
as you can win the championship. But even though the
Rockets view it that way, I don't think it's fair.
This is perhaps a different discussion, but I don't really
think it's fair to look at the KD trade as
a championship or bust trade, because there's no bust scenario here,

(01:03:27):
because even if you don't win the championship, you contributed
to the development of ry young guys. You have better spacing,
you're going to play higher stakes guys, are going to
be battle Harman earlier. I mean, if we'll go look
at the Celtics, one of the most successful team over
the last ten years bar none. When you look at
the consistency of being at the top, what do they have.
They have two stars Tatum. Yeah, they have a smartphone office,

(01:03:50):
a good coach, and they have two stars Joan Brown
and Jason Tatum. And both of them got into the
playoffs and the highest stakes of the playoffs very very
on in their careers. There weren't those kind of stones
along the way that held them back because they when
when it was time for them to be the best
players on a championship team, they had already been the

(01:04:12):
second order the third best players of championship teams before
who was easier to take Ustem and so. And I
think this is something that's kind of trying on Rockets
to the right now. And I completely agree with it's
not championship or bust the Katie toy. That's something that
Jem and Green fans are trying to push so that
if Ruggets don't well, I see in the three years
they can say, oh, you treated the German for Kevin right,

(01:04:33):
you didn't win any they want to take that pick
through out. To me, it's not like that. To me,
it's it's championship or read tool, because if you don't
win a championship, you're still gonna have your entire car
here and you still have some of the best picks
in the league, and you still own your entire future
of first round picks, so you're in a prime position now.
It's it's the analogy is perfect. It's what you said,

(01:04:55):
you open your window earlier, but you don't you don't
shut it any sooner. So so I just want to
kind of put a bowl on and say it's not
championship or bust, even though they're being the lootry that
they can treat it this season. They can treat this
season as championship or bust, but they're not spending the
assets that a team that's championship or bust would be spending.
They're being championship but or bust with their the allocation

(01:05:19):
of their gap space. They're saying, Okay, we're using every
tool we have while not compromising the future.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Yeah, and then you can also point out that the
payroll is artificially high right now because you have I
assume to be thirty seven year olds. Kevin Durant, his
percentage of the salary cap, which is what matters, is
really high. We'll see what his extension comes in at.
But this year is obviously on the books already, so
that compared to future payrolls as a factor that may

(01:05:45):
not be there. Kd's salary and specific is artificially high.
So that goes into this. I agree with you that
it's not championship or bus. The championship window is open.
It's not that these years are necessarily more important, but
for various reasons, it could make sense to splurge a
little bit more on the front end, especially when you
look at Katie potentially aging out. As far as the

(01:06:08):
future timeline, just a few things to keep in mind,
and then I'll transition to our final segment, which we're
over an hour now, so we need to wrap up.
But injuries could make the decision for you. So in
terms of projecting future years, it's always possible that, you know,
as we've seen with Boston after the Tatum injury, or
Indiana after losing Tybee Haliburton and now letting Miles Turner go,
it could be that one of these future years something happens,

(01:06:30):
it is the NBA, and so the decision sort of
made for you and that, hey, it just makes sense
to hit the reset button at a given point in time.
It doesn't now, so they're all it. Also, those twenty nineteen,
twenty twenty nine, and twenty thirty years we're talking about
kd aging out, those are probably when a men and
shingoon are going to be near the peak of their power.
So it could make sense for those to be your

(01:06:53):
leaner years simply because the next three years they're going
to be relatively young. That's going to be their true
prime and so maybe they need least help at that point.
And then as you go into the twenty thirties and
you hope you're contending window continues. Then maybe you know,
not that they're going to get over the hill rapidly,
but maybe it makes more sense to pay then as
they get closer to you know, the midpoint and eventually

(01:07:15):
the second half of their careers, the final point that
I would raise, it's always possible, and I think we
saw this in the Kevin Durant trade negotiations, and not
just possible, likely that the Rockets have information that we
don't that could be influencing these decisions. Again, I talked
in June about how I thought there was a very
reasonable case to potentially keep Jalen and trade Jabari. I

(01:07:38):
don't do it the same way anymore because I know
what Jabari's contract extension came in at. So it could
be that in terms of future figures, the Rockets have
information that we don't as far as what guys are
willing to take, what subsequent extensions are going to look like,
maybe what you're somebody's planning to retire. That's saying for
sure that's the case, but again I think it played

(01:07:58):
out in the KD talks what Jabari was willing to
take for his extension. In my opinion, absolutely played a
role in him staying in Houston and not being a
part of that trade package, So it could be possible.
But hey, the Rockets have information in those further out
years that we don't as far as what their books
are going to look like, to where it makes sense
to spend a little bit more now and perhaps pull
back then. We'll have to wait and see, but it's

(01:08:19):
at least a possibility that in the aftermath that the
Jabari contract I want to raise. Okay, final segment, and
we'll make this one very quick, because boy, we've had
a lot to say today. I guess it always happens
with me and Polo, But the remainder of the off
season I expect it to be relatively quiet. There's been reports,

(01:08:42):
most notably from Kelly Echo of the Athletic the Rockets
are shopping Cam Moore, which in a perfect world you
keep him. He's a talented player. It's just going into
year three, are the minutes going to be available? They
have a clear top nine between the starters, and then Tari,
Steven Reid and Jorian as your top four off the bench.
Maybe Clint Capella makes it a ten man rotation if
they want to try and play three centers, and if

(01:09:02):
they do want to go double big, which is a
possible implication of the Capella signing, then that's another potential
squeeze to the minutes for Cam Whitmore. So in a
perfect world you'd keep him. The question is are the
minutes going to be there? And if they aren't, is
he going to develop? Are you going to have him
at a point in which you feel comfortable for driveting
his future value? Is he going to want to stay
here beyond his first contract? Is he going to be

(01:09:24):
a malcontent? Because we know at times there were some
awkward roments last year between Cam Whitmore and his well,
I shouldn't say his teamates, but certainly between Cam and
Ima Udoka. We know what Adoka said the press conference
after the season. So you could make the case for
trading Cam for future assets, ideally a protected first round pick,
but if you have to get a few seconds to
replenish what you lost in the Durant deal, I could

(01:09:46):
see that. On the other hand, look, there's people who
look at this roster and we'll say do they have
enough at court scoring or creation? Because right now you've
got Fred and Reid is your point guards and you've
got a bunch of wings. Now they view Kevin Durant
as a shooting guard, and I think that's fair, at
least offensively, but he's not the downhill attacking guy that

(01:10:06):
even Jalen Green was a year ago in terms of
rim pressure. So the way the Rockets view it, they
look at their data from last year when they had
fred or Jalen as the loan guard and then flanked
by three wings and a center. They were elite. So,
as I've said before, they wanted to go into this offseason,

(01:10:27):
they went in with an emphasis on getting bigger, and
that's largely what they've done, and that's what's signing Doriyan
Phinny Smith and Clint Capella plays into as well. They
don't think they need a traditional approach. They want to
lean into the length, the physicality, the toughness defensively. Maybe
you play more zone offensively, even if you don't have
the so called rim pressure. Maybe if you have the

(01:10:48):
length the shooting that you can overcome it or you
just crash the hell out of the glass the way
they almost beat the Warriors in the playoff series even
without Kevin Durant. I don't think the Rockets are worried
about the court concern that some have on social media.
Yet if you were to look at this team and say,
do they have a weakness, do they have any areas

(01:11:09):
they can potentially shore up over the revenger of the
off season, and that's assuming that there's no superstar trades.
I don't think Giannis is on the table anymore. I'm
not sure the Rockets would want to trade for him
even if he was, because it would shorten the aforementioned
window based on what you'd have to give up the regardless,
that's a discussion for another time. I don't think he's
in the market right now because of the mouse turner thing.
So at this point it's largely moves around the margins.

(01:11:29):
Even going into the luxury tax, they are hard capped
at the first apron so they don't have unlimited room.
I think they're largely going to stay the course, and
the benefit is that you can learn early in the
season what you had, and then when you get closer
to the trade deadline, the gat you're signed in the
off season are potentially trade eligible, so you have tradable salary,
you have tradable assets in them as well, as you

(01:11:51):
pointed to. And that's why I'm not too worried about
bringing in another shooter, another creator, because I see the
logic in what the Rockets are saying. If it doesn't
work out, then to me, okay, well, there's a clear
way that you could address it in December and January
before things get really real next April. So I'm not
too stressed about the backcourt thing. And while I get

(01:12:13):
the argument for retaining Cam Whitmore because in theory he
could fill that, I also don't think you have to
keep him because of that, because if he's going to
start the season as like the tenth or eleventh guy
on your bench and not in a rotation role, what
are the odds that he's really going to be ready
to step into that role. I don't think the Rockets
view him as ready for that type of responsibility, otherwise

(01:12:37):
they'd be making them more of a priority. And they've
watched this guy in practice for two plus years now.
So I get the argument for what Cam brings in theory,
and I'm open based on the talent to keeping him,
but I don't think they have to keep him, And
I also don't think they have to go out and
bring in another guard or another shooter right now. If

(01:12:59):
there's someone that's a good value add, sure, I'm open
to it, but I think the Rockets want to go
basically Fred read at a bunch of wings, wings and
centers and lean into their size, lean into their length.
The shooting should be a ton better with KD Doriann
Finnie smithstruk forty two percent from three last year, by
the way, and see what they've got. And between that

(01:13:19):
and a defense that was already top five and shouldn't
take a step back, the only potential concern there would
be losing Dylan. Then you just replaced him with someone
who should be just as good. I don't know. I'm
content with where they're at personally. I would love to
see them keep Cam. I love the talent, but I
also respect the argument from an asset perspective to move
on if you can't guarante him or Browl, And I

(01:13:39):
just don't see the need right now to push your
ships in if the right value ad is there to
do it. If not, I say you start the year
largely the way you have the roster set up right now,
and you take the first two or three months to
learn and if it doesn't work out, you know what,
You've got these contracts you side of the off season,
they're going to be tradable and you could be a
major player close to the trade. Thatline, that's my outlook

(01:14:02):
of power. Is there anything I'm missing as far as
raider of the off season and whether the Rocket should
address or should not addust the backcourt issue right now? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
I think if they're committing to this ideology that you
play one guard and you interests wings and then you
play a center or two setters, I think that makes sense.
It's a double edgy sort of right. Ideally, I would
have liked to have some insurance in case reach eppers
not ready yet they're banking on a man at the
one and Aaron Holliday being that insurance. But then at

(01:14:32):
the same time, the types of guys people want to
talk about t Roones of the world, guys like that,
they're not going to sign for a team that can't
promise them a significant part of the rotation, right And
there's both teams that are going to promise them twenty
twenty five minutes, but at least they're seems going to
promise them starting. There's things going to that promised them
six thirty minutes a night. What the Rockets can offer is, hey,

(01:14:55):
we have read. We have read, and if read isn't
good enough, you can like you're not gonna throw all
our free agents away. And that's for the point guard.
It also words for the shooting guard as well. Our
planet is to play. We have an ultras stacked nine
man rotation. We are probably not going to give it
to give everybody the minutes that they want already, But

(01:15:17):
do you want to come be our fifteenth man for
the minimum salary?

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
Who are you going to get in a situation like that?
And I mean, look at Tim Hardley Junior, who was
a very fault player. He went to the Nuggets and
he's gonna play significant minutes to that he's not their
fifteenth man. At the same time, what's really the value
in bringing someone in? If he made it look, it's
not gonna play them, I mean will A perfect example
of this would be I just had a name in

(01:15:41):
my mind. We signed the guy for the minimum that
was a regible block. I mean, Reggi Bulock was the
perfect example of this. We needed shooting desperately. He was
a good shootor he is as personally as a rocket
or great. He may didn't play him because he didn't
play good enough defense. And most of the guys you
don't get that. Our movement hittors will not play good
enough ten And it doesn't matter what the front office

(01:16:03):
tries to kind of stick in with is going to
do what Imyudoka wants to do. And if you like
in Mayodoka the coach, you've got to take the good
with the bad. And if you want this enforcer type
play defense culture, that has costs. And part of the
cost is you don't get to play guys that don't

(01:16:23):
buy non defense because you're at that point you're kind
of taking the authority. I don't know what the word
is in English and in portug Is, it's that away
from the goat. You're trying to kind of trying to
demean the philosophy of the goat, and that's not something
you want to You've got to take the good with
the bad and that out that's saying.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
That's saying.

Speaker 3 (01:16:41):
Logic applies to kem with more listen Ken with Moore's
garden chances and he is tough on then I have
a one hundred percent believe that he's going to go
to another team and he's going to put up eighteen
to twenty points a game, and everybody is going to say,
oh my god, I cannot believe that Houston Rockest straight
this guy when they don't have a shooting guard. At
the same time, let's be honest, he doesn't have playing
time here. And it's not just the Rockets decision, it's

(01:17:04):
a cam with more decision as well, because he's not
gonna sit and be happy at the end of the
bench for the entire season. And you're gonna understand why
he's twenty years old. You know he wants to go
be something, both from his perspectives and knowing that that's
the situation from the Rockets perspectives. As the management of
an asset, you just give up five second otpicks for KD.

(01:17:24):
It might make sense to cut your losses and say, hey,
if we can get a couple of seconds for them.
It's not ideal. We know he's going to be better
than this, but we don't have the we don't have
the setup to allow him to shine at this point.
If the Rockets, who were three four years ago, when
they have all that playing time and all those shots available,
maybe they don't, they're not at that point anymore. And

(01:17:45):
you can't want to have you can't want to have
your cake and needed to. You can't want to play
just young guys and give everybody a chance and at
the same time be a week. That's compromises that come
from being all in and winning now, and part of
them is you play the best guy that you came
with more at this point right now, it's not one
of the best guys, hasn't been for the last two years.

(01:18:07):
And you're at a point in time where he needs
more playing time and you can't give it to him.
And you can't afford to just keep him unhappy first
because the girl lose an ascid that you're gonna sour
the relationship. You can't afford to keep to keep him
here while not giving him the minutes. It doesn't make
sense for either side. And so while I would have

(01:18:28):
loved to keep came with more, and I'm sure Kevin
with Moore is going to prove everybody wrong. I mean,
not really wrong, because I'm saying I believe in him,
but he's going to make Rockets look like fools. But hey,
that's the price you buy you when you're trying to
be good, you can't give everybody the tested that they served.
Look at for example, I mean, look at the process

(01:18:49):
sixers and look at the guys that they had on
that process. They weren't even trying to be good. But
look at all the guys that they had, Pigaut Bridges,
Christian Robert Covington. I think bomb Woods was that as well.
Look at all of those guys. Listen, they couldn't develop
all of them because you never can, and once you
start getting good, you don't have the chances for them
to play anymore. And again, Km's incredibly talented, but it

(01:19:11):
just doesn't make sense at this point as far as
bringing someone in for the minimum to replace his roster spot.
The Rockets can do one of two things. They can
keep Nate Williams as his minimum contract, or they can
wave Nate Williams up until the beginning of the season.
I've signed to mother guy on a minimum. I've looked
at the candidates, considering this is an email you look
at team. I'm probably banking that Nate Williams is that

(01:19:33):
guy that stays just because he has the length, he
can play defense, and he can be a microwave score
as much as most of the guys that you which
you can go and get and get and get out
there now. And he is on a deal that is
a minimum deal for three years, so that he has
that upside that you guy you bring in for one
year doesn't. And you can still at the end of
the day, you can hold into the pebline and Throckets

(01:19:55):
straight with More because they have to trade either with
More or Wave Nate Williams. It's a train with More
and Keith Nate Williams when the buyout market comes around,
you know later op at the trade deadline, the Rockets
do are about a million and a half below the
first stay from where they are a hard gap at
so they'll be able to offer a minut approated minimum

(01:20:17):
to two or two other guys at that point. So
I think they'll just be on a holding pattern until then.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
Yep. And they also have an open two way because
reports have indicated they're going to move on from Jack McVeigh.
So that's an option's wealth surmindered this offseason as well
as we'll see what happens after training camp. In the preseason,
there's always guys slipped through the cracks when it comes
to roster crunches. So that's an option they have as well. Yeah,
I think this Cam went More obsession is a little much.

(01:20:44):
I think some of it comes or a lot of
it comes down to the fan base just not recalibrating
its expectations. I think when Jalen got moved in the
KD trade, a lot of fans just sort of have
this next man up mindset. Well, I've never agreed with
it in this comparison to begin with, Like, people love
this slander Jalen, Well, guys, the coaches are watching Jalen

(01:21:06):
and Cam play every day at practice. They have information
way beyond what we have, and they clearly concluded that
Cam was worse. So this idea that, oh, Jalen's terrible,
but now Cam's going to be the solution and he's
just next man up and it's going to be fine.
Don't you think the team has been watching for that
very closely? And if you trust he may Jokin Orfelstone.
Why don't you trust their judgment on something like this?

(01:21:28):
So this whole idea that he wasn't playing, but he's
going to step in and immediately be a contributor to wedding.
I think that was always a little far fetched. If
he couldn't exceed Jalen's production or even come close to
it last year, I don't think he's a guy who
you could expect a ton from this year. In terms
of the asset, I know, people hate, you know, seeing

(01:21:48):
an asset go to waste. Look, he fell to pick
twenty for a reason. So some of these concerned about
the attitude, the does he need to be promised minutes
to buy in? I mean, these are potentially some of
the reasons why team's passed on In despite the talent
in the twenty twenty three draft. So, no, the Rockets
didn't give up a huge asset to get him. It's
not like we're talking about number three, number four, number

(01:22:10):
two pick something like that. But most importantly, again it
just comes down to fans, not recalibrity expectations. This is
not the rebuilding years where you focus solely on the
core six, the core seven and if one doesn't come through,
well then it's next man up. No, you're trying to
maximize every margin. It's winning now. And so if you
think doriy On Phinny Smith is a better fit for

(01:22:30):
that ninth slot than Cam Witmore, then you bring in
a thirty two year old dory on Phinny Smith because
it's about winning now. It's about trying to contend for
a championship. And so if you hurt the feelings of
a guy who was shrafted in this case, not even
that high number twenty overall, whatever, I mean, you bite
the bullet because there's a much bigger priority right now.
This is not yours that are primarily about development. This

(01:22:52):
is about winning, and sometimes this is going to happen.
And I think for a fan base that's been through
a rebuilding, even this year, I think the Rocket to
a little bit ahead of schedule in terms of how
high they were up the standings. Next year is going
to be the first year where the Rockets truly entered
the season saying, hey, we think we can win a championship.
That is our goal. The Rockets are there as an organization.

(01:23:14):
Their actions this summer have proven that. I don't think
the fan base is entirely there yet, and that's not
anybody's fault. It is a quick transition, especially when you
think back to earlier this decade and the depths of
the rebuild. But that's where the Rockets are now. And
I think some of this obsession with cam Whitmore number
twenty overall picked in twenty twenty three. It's just fans
that have not recalibrated to where the Rockets actually are

(01:23:37):
and what the criteria is going to be moving forward
for decisions about playing time, contracts and so on and
so forth. Anyway, that's enough talk for one episode, so
we'll break things here. If you have our content before
our next show, the best place to get it is online.
You can follow me on social media at Bendubo's at
Palo Alts, NBA, and the show at the Logger Line.
If you go to the logger lines page on Twitter

(01:23:58):
slash x, you can find our link tree which links
to all of our distribution partners like Apple, Google and Spotify.
You kind of have to subscribe the plasit review at
your location of choice. We greatly appreciate that. Also on
that same link tree, you can find links to friends,
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Sports Song seven ninety. You have those links, you can
enjoy their content as well. All Right, with those flights complete,
we will Jarn for today for Paolo. I'm Ben, thanks

(01:24:19):
as always for listening, and please Coeme Mack soon for
another new episode of the logger line The Rockets.

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