Despite Jalen Green’s struggles, Rockets (12-6) rise to No. 3 in West

Despite a rough November from Jalen Green, the defensively stout Rockets (12-6) have climbed to No. 3 in the West standings and first place in their NBA Cup group.

Monday’s episode explores how they’ve done it, led by promising signs from Alperen Sengun and Amen Thompson; the current levels of concern with Green; and what to watch for as Houston’s schedule gets more difficult, starting with a crucial NBA Cup game at Minnesota on Tuesday

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Cheers, Rockets fans, Welcome to The Logger Line, an exclusive
podcast from the home of the Rockets, Sports Talk seven ninety.
The Logger Line, It's proudly served to you by car
Box Clutch City Lagger It is good Yeah, Red Nation,

(00:23):
get Ready.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Ready, Get Ready.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
The Lagger Line starts now.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome aboard, Welcome back to another full episode of The
Logger Line, again served to you courtesy of Clutch to
be logger of Carback Brewing. I'm Ben Dubos, your host,
editor of USA Today's Rocket Square and contributor to Sports
Talk seven ninety, official flagship radio station of your Houston Rockets.

(00:53):
You can follow me on Twitter slash x at Ben Dubos.
I'm joined again by our co host and producer Pallo Alves.
You can follow him on the same platform at Palo
ALVE's NBA and as we chat. This Monday, November twenty fifth,
it's been a bit of a mixed bag for the
Rockets since we last recorded. It's been almost two weeks,
but that's because the Rockets have had NonStop games. It

(01:14):
feels like they just wrapped up a stretch in which
they had five games in seven nights. They won three
of those five the two they lost. One was a
game in Milwaukee that they led by six with under
three minutes to go, didn't score from that point forward.
Also hoped that on the winning possession for the box,
Piannis had his foot out of bounds to start it
and the officials did not call it. And then the

(01:35):
final game of the five and seven stretch was the
loss to the Portland Trail Blazers at home on Saturday night,
One night after dominating the Blazers in an NBA Cup game,
the Rockets couldn't find anywhere near the same form on Saturday.
You probably saw some signs of tired legs and that
they made just eight three pointers and for the season
as a whole, the Rockets are the number one rebounding
team in the NBA. They out rebounded the Blazers by

(01:57):
six on Friday. On Saturday, they were minus ten, so
not making threes only eight for the game and getting
out rebounded by ten for a team that typically leads
the NBA in that category, I think those are signs
of a little bit of fatigue. Even though the Rockets
are deeper team, five games and seven nights early in
the year is a lot. With that said, it was

(02:18):
a back to back for the Blazers as well, so
there's only so far the excuses can go. Rockets were
thirteen and a half point favorites going into that game,
so it's one of the biggest losses, perhaps the biggest
loss by the NBA favorite all year. And that's why,
even though the macro looks pretty good for the Rockets,
they're twelve and six, the number three in the Western Conference,
they're leading their division, there's not a Rockets fan in existence.

(02:40):
I think that would have turned down a twelve and
six start if offered that a month ago. Yet when
you look at how they got to that twelve and
six start and the games they've left on the table,
like the one to the Portland Trailblazers on Saturday Night,
like the one to the Hornets to open the season,
like the one in San Antonio, those are ones that
in that tight Western Conference, could be really costly down

(03:02):
the line, especially as the schedule increases in difficulties. So
I think the Rockets are a better team than what
we thought they were going into the year. I think
the data is pretty clear on that point. However, there's
also some things to be frustrated by and that they're
really not far from being fifteen and three, even sixteen
to two instead of twelve and six. So I'll bring

(03:24):
you in here because I'm sort of torn on whether
to lead in a more optimistic tone or a more
pessimistic tone. I think the macro is very good for
this team, but the micro it does tie into some
issues that I think we knew going into this season,
which is the question, especially when it comes to perimeter
based creators, how do they land the plane late in
a close game. And you look at their close games,

(03:46):
They've had eight single digit results this year. They've lost
five of the eight, and of those five or of
the three that they want excuse me, they actually led
by massive amounts in the second half of those games.
Those were in Dallas, in San Antonio and basically held

(04:07):
on for dear life. So in terms of games that
are truly in the balance, it's been rough, and I
don't think that shocking. I think the Denver Nuggets and
Nikola Jokich these last few years, that's like a top
one percent archetype for or top one percent outcome for
all for Echion Goon's archetype and it's Jamal Murray that's

(04:31):
often landing the plane. It's just so tough laden games
for a big man, only even if it's one that's
as good as all for In Chhangoon, who has largely
played at an all star level last season and now
this season, to do it on his own, especially if
you're asking him to sort of play the clock, which
we saw at times against the Blazers, there's a lot
of dynamics you need someone on the perimeter to step up.

(04:52):
Jalen Green has not had a good year efficiency wise.
Fred Van Fleet is a good player, but between his
lack of size, his lack of birth, he's not someone
that can reliably create his own shot, especially if the
jump shot isn't falling, which it wasn't on Saturday. Amn
Thompson can do some things, but the jump shot is
still not there at a consistent basis. So he's not
a perfect solution at this point in time either. And

(05:15):
so that's the one area of pessimism that I have.
It's not like it's just random and it should even out. No,
this is a concern we had about this team going
into the year, and I think as good as the
overall numbers are. This is a great defensive team, one
of the top two in the league. Offensively, they've been
top ten in net rating in November I think for
the year, there's still a top five overall net rating team.

(05:37):
So there's a lot to like here. But this issue
of who's going to be the hem amongst the perimeter
players and how can you close out tight games the
types that you're going to see more of as the
season gets more meaningful, as you play more difficult opponents.
If you do ever get to the play in tournament
or the playoffs outright, that question is still there. We'll

(05:57):
see if the Rockets can resolve it internally or if
eventually that to make an external trade or acquisition to
solve that issue. So I guess that's where I'm at, hollow.
I feel, you know, overall, pretty pleased. I don't think
anybody would have turned down twelve and sex, but the
way they got to twelve and six, and especially some
of these games that they've let slip away, it has
to be at least a little bit frustrating, right, I.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Mean, yeah, especially so because the game right before we
recorded it was actually that dem Brose game the trill
Blazers game on Sorry similar words, I guess, but yeah,
oh you know, I think you can be mad, right,
you've got to be you know, coming up a loosophy,
it always thinks a little bit, especially because it's the
thing that we are supposed to beat and that we

(06:40):
hung around like we hung around the entire game. We
had chances to win and then we just lost in
such frustrating fashion with with the way fred nvegan. Know,
obviously we were still you know, unlikely to win, but
for then that evently just shot. I know, he got
filed and they have a refullator admitted it. But you
don't want to put the decision in the hands of

(07:01):
the referees, right, and if and if you're going to
do that, you have to make the other team actually
follow you want to drive or something like that, right,
I know, it's it's it's a vet move or whatever
it is. It's just it's to me, it's it's a
bit irresponsible. I think it's very unlikely that you're rafically
going to give you a foul on a three point
clout within thirty seconds at the end of the game,
unless you're getting reno. So that that one just triggered

(07:25):
me way too much. And I've seen people argue that
we that we will haven't because it was just purely verbal.
I've seen people say that, and that would be just
a fine. I've seen people say that the fact that
Fred even at knowledge that he made a mistake, probably
it's gonna bully it out of proportion and make it
easier for the NBA to find them because he's already
to to suspend them because he's already expecting it. I've

(07:46):
seen also all sorts of things. But going back to
I feel like we struggle with a lot of the
same things, which is, listen, our only go to scoring
often the only guy that can generate anything himself off
and saying O happens to be a post player. And
unless you unless you are a post player and you

(08:07):
go to movies that jump felt like a Joel and bieb.
It's really tough for you to generate the conditions in
which your post up is something that you can go
to the down the stretch, especially if you have limited
time on the possession. And so it's great to have
someone like that that you need, a preimpter creator who
we'll be talking about it for a long time and
Jalen is just I apologize at the beginning of the

(08:30):
season for being maybe out on him too early during
this time last season, but listen, at this point, right,
that's just it's you can't reasonably like he'd have to
play good throughout two seasons in a row for you
to actually start to buy into him being a productive player.

(08:52):
And earlier on the season, he was defending well, and
he was you know, playmaking a bit as well, and
he was taking just that made sense. And he's still
taking shots that makes sense to some extent. But at
this point, the defense has fallen off a cliff. He's
getting stuck on screens again, He's you know, getting beat
off the dribble. You know, I can't even make that

(09:13):
argument anymore. And the shots are just not falling. And
at some point we have and this is really tough
for me because he's he was not here the player
for for a long time. At some point it's just
got to recognize that he's just not good enough. Listen,
you can look at the talent or not knock the down.
You can look at, you know, how quick he is,

(09:33):
how how balanced he has like when he's moving, how
coordinated he is. You can talk about that, he can
jump off the gym, you can talk about everything, but
at some point, if you just can't make shots, you're
just not a good basketball player. There's there's there's no
silver linings. That's just that's just the case at this point, right.

(09:56):
Trust me, I've tried. There's no coherent way of explaining
why he makes our missus chats. It's not the type
of chats it takes. It's not like I cannot find
any line of thought that explains why he struggles and
why and why he plays well. He's just it's just
scrippling to the entire offense to have him out there

(10:17):
because even if you even if you replace them with
anybody that's coming off the band, we don't have anybody
off the match that can get their own bucket. And
then you know, there was the little trauma at about
halftime where a man looks off Jalen on on a
you know, buzzer beat at type of situation, like a
late game super situation, where yes, Jalen is probably the

(10:40):
best player we have on the team at creating his
own shot off the perimeter. It's a combination of at
the same time him being the best we have and
the best we have been so awful, and you look
around and I think, kind of getting a little bit
of a head of myself on this thirty thousand foote
I think you have to consider at the deadline, if

(11:01):
this team is still as good, you have to consider
even if a star doesn't shake, doesn't become available, you
have to consider a quick, hot, fixed type of type
of type of solo shit. I listen, there's guys like these.
I'm rebuilding teams all around the league in defend depending
on the cost, of course, I'm maintaining Simon.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, let me jump in on the Simons point. I
really think if you have Anthony Simons and we saw
the way he landed the plane. To go back to
that analogy for the Blazers on Saturday, the Rockets are
fifteen and three or sixteen and two with Anthrety Simons.
For all to talk about Devin Booker ideal scenarios, de

(11:40):
Aaron Fox, the Superstars, you could go after. There's some
real low hanging fruit here right, Like, you don't have
to make a deal for a Devin Booker type necessarily.
You could be one of the best teams in the NBA.
This season, just with a competent Anthony Simons type at
that position.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, and listen, there's the argument could be made that
a phony Simon's is stu bit of a commitment, right,
the contract's too long in.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Terms of an archetype, like it doesn't have to be
someone that you unload all your assets.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah, exactly, And now I'm agreeing with you. I was
just I was just stegling into even if it isn't
an Ephony Simon stypepa guy, because you consider the contract
to be too long, but the price to be too expressive, period,
because he is a good player, he is young, he
will be, you know, highly rated on the market. There's
the typical six man micro scores Lou Williams types. There
are those girls on one other teams, like I can

(12:32):
think off the top of my head. If the Kings
aren't aren't good enough, they have Momique Monk. The Jats
are clear enough good enough, they're clearly thanking. They have
two of them. They have Jordan Carts and Yams of
having a terrible season, and they have Colin Sexton, both
sub twenty million dollar year players which you could go
get for the price of one of Jaquelandel or Steven
Adams Postanta. It's salary wise, which means you wouldn't have

(12:54):
to give up a key rotation busy you to obviously
play draft Equlty for it's just so jarring that we
like anything would be an upgrade. It's we have a
bunch of really good defensive players with no back and
then we have oprom ing Un who has, to his credit,
evolved into I mean, I don't have the SUTs in
front of him, but it was circling around on to earth,

(13:16):
evolved into one of the best rim protecting centers from
a from a rim field goal percentage perspective this year,
which you know, actually matching the eye tests that we're
not giving up lips that easily. And so if this
team is still a top four seed when you get
to deadline, you have to consider a move like that obviously,
you know, since the orders are good. But the hill

(13:38):
doesn't make sense like that anymore. But there's there's guys
out there that could be gotten for I think residual
assets that the Orchestral really explore doing it. And I'm
at the point with Jalen that since his defense has
actually fallen off a Cliff as well. You have to
start considering giving some of those minutes to reach out.
I mean last game I was calling for it since

(14:00):
basically have fun. You could tell that Red was shooting
more confidently last last game he got to his middle
raane shot once it was cash. He had eight points
on four shots. I mean, he was operating conferantly, and
I think he's obviously not going to generate as milky
space as Jalen. But at this point they're giving they're
giving our guards so much space and they're letting Chillen

(14:20):
take these shots and he's just missing them. And if
you replace him with reach Eppard, thing the state exact
same shots. Ipecially makes a higher percentage of them. And
if you have the depth, it's not exactly a one
to one archetype switch, right, But he's giving you stuff
that Kilen isn't that you really need. And I think,
just to close upon you know, I have more thoughts

(14:42):
on this game, but I'll just close off with with
one more. This team really struggles when they're not able
to turn the ball over. As it's obvious fight by
the fact that they're a terrible half guard team. But
there's another there's due to the fact that they are
so limited creating from the perimeter. This team actually rights
or dies by Dylan Brooks a lot, because he's besides

(15:05):
scale and he's probably the best guy getting a bucket,
even if it is a tough turnaround, paving away middle
and shot and the books had an important free late
last night. Later and last night's game, but you're at
that point and you know a man is obviously not there.
And since then, since we're struggling so much, I thought

(15:25):
the last game we weren't playing with our usual base.
Obviously five games in five games in seven spaces, I
think you said has placed a part in it, but
actually didn't feel the team then feel tired to me,
I thought they were playing hard. It was just a
combination of you know, shooting probably the worst percentage that
I've ever seen a team shoot in the NBA, combined

(15:47):
with was also even on their shot. Probably they were
also making some bullshit shots. I mean for the longest
and during the game the difference was was five six
points and they was just care me grant like shooting drink.
Test of threes that put us away was a faving
three punch up from Amphony Simon's we're really close to
winning these games, and we've come to a point where

(16:10):
it's really justified to to consider just getting a microwave scorer,
and you could consider end Holiday someone like that, but
it's just, you know, he's not a microwave scorer. He's
a point guard that can score. And I guess we
have so many cool role players, but we were at
that point, which I think a lot of people, or

(16:34):
the typical modern NBA fan doesn't really value the type
of microwave scorer. But I think that our current team
really shows you how important that role is when you
have none of it. What's the weather aside alreading?

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Well, and here's the thing. May Rijoka, when he's asked
about Jalen and the struggles, he keeps saying shot creation
and he's right because outside of Jalen, we don't have
a ton of that on this roster, especially on the promoter.
So I don't think he's blowing smoke. No, the way
this team is constructed. And Rafel Stone said this last
February before Jalen went off in March. You know, Rafel

(17:07):
that meanful it at the time, but that whole thing
on you know, no one else on the roster has
a skill set, or that Jalen has a skill set
that isn't replicated elsewhere on the roster. That's true. However,
in the context of the broader NBA, it actually isn't
that hard. The Rockets just haven't brought in that type
of piece yet. I think what you're saying is, especially

(17:28):
in year four, if we're getting closer to January in
February and Jalen is still looking anything close to this,
even if he bounces back a little bit, because I
do think at some point he's going to make more
shots than the ads the last couple of weeks, But
even if he just bounces back a little bit, then
that skill is not so rare in the context of
the NBA that there aren't alternatives. And you know, one

(17:50):
of the things that is interesting to me, I think
if not for everything that went Heywarre with Kevin Porter Junior,
he would have been something of a hedge and so
in some ways they haven't replaced it since then. But
I just think that overall that's what makes it so frustrating, Right,
It's a skill set that is not that hard to replace,
or that we're in fine.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
And just like listen, if KPJ were kind of has
the exact same problem Dalan has, which is he can
generate the shots. It just it just can can make them.
And I think, I guess, I guess to just really
put a bow on it. If listen, I'm you know
how we had Brooklyn nets Big Watch. I have Sons
not Big Watch, but Booker Watch. Because I think, listen,

(18:31):
I think Devin Booker. Obviously we can make a whole
podcast on this. I'm not going to go on on
on and on on this, but if you replaced Chilen
been without with Devin Booker, which I'll just put it
out that I won't explain that, we'll do it in
another pot. We can make a move for Devin Booker
this year at the deadline, even though Jillen's poison bill.
It's not that hard. We just have to get a
team like the Jazz to take on ten million onto

(18:54):
their non experient mid level, which a lot of team
tanking teams have. If we were able to make that move,
I genuinely think we are as much of a contender
as any other team out there. I genuinely do think
that I think we can.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, this team.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Hangs with any team. That's just a massive, like black
hole size flow in it. Like the fact that we're
met we're managing to be this good.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
On a conference.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
This stuff with just a complete lack of scoring is insane.
And it's not like you'd lose any defense with a
guy like Booker, because I mean, Kevin is not playing
that very deference anyway. It's just that's how mad like
what Email is doing with this team with this insane
lack of scoring. I've never seen anything like it everything

(19:44):
that I started walking the NBA. It's it's like this
team is like a May plus plus plus defense and
scoring wise, there like a d like there's not like
there's an uph enging room and when and when you
came fe the upper eching loon, we literally live off
of missing shots and getting rebound. It's a better offensive
possession for us to get a tough midrind shot that

(20:05):
someone gets an offensive rebound from and gets a defensive
guard and gets a footback then it is to get
a wide open three for most of the guys on there. Also, Yeah,
like that sound insanely terrible.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
It is well And to close the loop on Jalen
I think so much of this comes down to the shooting.
I think i May is being honest and that it's
different than this time a year ago, when there were
so many things when it came to the defensive end,
and then especially the playmaking and all the things outside
of just putting the ball in the bucket that Jalen
wasn't doing, probably because of some of the bad habits

(20:38):
he acquired the first couple of years. While not perfect,
I think a lot of those have been improved, and
so I do believe, and I think Imay is telling
the truth that he's developed enough as an overall basketball
player that he's earned a lot more trust. That's why
Saturday's game being the exception to the role Jalen has
generally closed games this year. At the end of the day,

(20:59):
as it's an underside shooting guard. If the jump shot
doesn't get to a respectable level, I don't care how
much athleticism he has. I don't care how many other
tools he has. He's got to be able to shoot
Otherwise he just doesn't provide enough value in other areas
at the game, and he's not big enough to overcome it,

(21:21):
both on his drives as well as how he holds
up defensively. When you look at a player of his
physical stature, you've got to be able to shoot at
least at a respectable level, and that's something that Look,
He's been used in a lot of different capacities. We're
in year four now, the sample is not that small anymore.

(21:41):
At some point we just have to acknowledge. And I'm
not saying it's right now, but time is running short
a little bit. And No, I don't necessarily regret the
contract because I don't think a clear upgrade was likely
to be available in free agency anyway, especially when you
consider the other things that would have likely needed to
do to go under the salary cap. So no, I
don't think that the Rockets necessarily rushed that. I think

(22:01):
that was more just Rafelstone looking at the market as
a whole and the ways that they were likely to
upgrade the team in the future. And so I think
that was, you know, less about an endorsement of Jalen
Green the basketball player, more about taking stock of the
landscape as a whole, the timeline. We talk about that
in recent pods and just saying we think this makes
the most sense in terms of team building. I don't
think it's necessarily saying that, you know, we're making this

(22:23):
huge bet on Jalen Green. No. I think, quite frankly,
the short term mature of the contract reflects the fact
that they weren't entirely sold. But I just think that
in terms of the x's and o's of Jalen the
basketball player right now, so much of it comes down
to shooting. Maybe he's earned more trust. I think he
has earned more trust based on his development in other areas,
but with his physical stature and being somewhat undersized at

(22:48):
his position, both in terms of you know, he's going
up against guys that are little bit longer than him
and physically more developed. If he's not shooting well and
he's not respected. You touch on the spacing, and I
think that's really important because when Jalen's on the floor
late in these games, a lot of times teams are
just sagging off to try and take away any chance

(23:08):
at a drive. He's also not very good at going
to his left, so you're seeing them sag off or
basically selling out to not let him go right. And
if he takes a step back three, then they'll take
their chances because he just hasn't made enough of those
and if that doesn't come around, and that's one thing. Look,
we do have a pretty long sample. If can't he
put the ball in the bucket enough to be efficient,

(23:30):
and for the most part through now three plus seasons,
he has not. And there's been months like March where
there's this tantalizing potential. But at some point you are
what you are not saying, we're there yet. Again, we're
not even a month into the season, but at some
point he's going to have to put up And if
it doesn't happen by January or February and the team

(23:51):
is so good in these other areas to your point,
then that's the low hanging fruit to you know, take
a team that's already third in the West and maybe
they've been aided a little bit by the schedule, but
not a ton. I mean you look at the point differential,
the net ratings, they're Saturday excluded, taking care of business
against these lesser teams. Yeah, it's just such an easy

(24:12):
area to potentially upgrade that it would be tough to
you know, the ideal scenario as the Sons go haywire
and you send them all their picks and salary filler
for Devin Booker. But even if that's not realistic until
next offseason at the earliest, it's just so low hanging
in terms of the potential upgrade there that I don't

(24:35):
know how you couldn't consider it. The numbers are just
getting worse and worse. It's not like there's an upturn.
If anything, it's going the wrong way, and that three
or fourteen on Saturday, I would argue it is this
worst game of the year because he may did not
trust him to close that game, and yet it wasn't
like there was a clear upturn when he wasn't in
that closing lineup. For the reasons we've been describing. It's

(24:56):
not like you can go elsewhere on the roster and
clearly get what you you need. You know, with Fred
in the final fifteen seconds, I thought it was stunning
and what really frustrated me about it. Players should be
well aware that you're probably not going to get a
three shot foul unless it is abundantly obvious. In this case,

(25:17):
they said after the game there shouldn't have been a foul,
or that there should have been a foul, but it
wouldn't have been a three shot foul. Okay, well down
three in the closing seconds, with the other team wanting
to value, they will invite you to go to the
rim for a layup. So you cannot tell me that
your highest percentage shot is putting it on the official
when it is extraordinarily unlikely it's going to be for three. No,

(25:39):
if you really are open to having a two there,
which is what the correct call would have given the Rockets.
And that's if Fred makes his free throws, which at
this point he's been a little bit underwhelming this year,
below eighty percent. But even if he makes his free throw,
it's the same as a layups. So just go to
the rim and take the damn layup if you're open
to playing the foul game. And you know, if sitting
this out longer saying that Portland can make their free
throws the rocketstead of a time out in their back pocket.

(26:02):
The bottom line is, and some of this probably ties
into Fred's own limitations as a player, because he is
undersized and he's not the guy with the most burst.
Maybe he doesn't trust himself to be able to finish
at the rim the way a Jalen Green could in
that spot to get an easy line, an easy layup.

(26:22):
Maybe that plays into it, and I think that speaks
to this dynamic as well. I think you know, Fred's
a very good player overall, but when his jump shot
isn't falling and it wasn't Saturday four thirteen, zero of six,
then he's not really someone that you want to trust
to just give the ball to in late game situations

(26:42):
and clear out. And as good as all For in
Shongoon is, if you're trying to chew up clock, which
you often are in these half court slogs, then you
get it to a big man who's not the most
athletic to begin with. At five six seconds left on
the shot clock, well you're inviting trump because all the
you know, the head fakes, the craftiness that makes all

(27:04):
For in Shangoon as good as he is offensively, they
become less effective when the other team can sort of
time their defensive movements because they know the shot clocket's
running out. And that's what happened in the possession in
a tie game then or a minute left, when Shangoon
got stuffed, it was very easy for the defender to
predict when he was going to shoot because there was
one second left on the shot clock. And so when

(27:26):
I think of, short of external acquisitions, what the Rockets
can do. You know, I keep going back to Amen
Thompson and Tari Easton. We saw at times the Warriors
game and they came back from thirty down. The Rockets
offense was a Men Thompson creating on these bullyball drives
and they had some success with that. I know the
jump shot is still a work in progress, but we've

(27:46):
shown a men has shown at times and improved floater
at a bare minimum, even if he misses, well, if
he's going downhill, he might can get his own rebound
or it sets up maybe for Shingoon or Tarry Easton.
But utting one of your athletes attack downhill, to me,
that's the one thing you could try. I could also
see if you want to initiate your sets with Shingoon

(28:10):
earlier in the shot clock, and you'd be trading off
a little bit in terms of you know, clock efficiency.
But you know, if Chagoon starts his movement with ten
instead of five, perhaps that possession yesterday has a different
outcome because it's far less predictable. I think that's an
option as well. But I think The bottom line is
what we've seen in these late game situations too often

(28:30):
it just evolves into Fred or Jalen freelancing. And between
Fred's lack of size and burst and between Sjalen's lack
of a consistent jump shot and his I would say
the feel is still inconsistent. It's tough to trust those
guys when it gets into late game situations, at least

(28:52):
trust them the way they have been used to this point,
which it feels like, you know, at times you maybe
Joka is using them the way Mike D'Antoni used to
use James Harden and Chris Pall, which is just, you know,
take as much time as you can and then five
six seconds left, go to that one two pick and
roll action or something close to that, and let them create.
And with Fred their physical limitations. With Jaleen, it's combination

(29:15):
of physical and mental. Not that you know, not that
he's not smart enough. I think he's indecisive, and some
of that goes into not having you know, a lot
of successful experience to draw upon in those situations. But
the bottom line is it's just not working the way
they have done it to this point, and so I
would like to see Shingoon those sets initiated a little

(29:36):
bit earlier in the clock. Other than that, I think
Amn Thompson and Tari Easton perhaps extermining a little more there.
But Polo, what do you think in terms of I
guess the bridge between now and January or February and
the potential of you know, exploring the trade before you
can look at something externally and maybe that's shelved until
the off season because of you know, the contractual factors

(29:58):
with Jalen that make him a little bit tougher to
move during the season, not impossible, more difficult to move
in terms of internal options. Is there anything that I'm
not thinking of that you can potentially do to sort
of bridge this gap in the short term, because as
the schedule gets more difficult, it's not going to be
Murderer's row. But starting these next six games, look, you've

(30:18):
got a back to back in Minnesota and Philadelphia this week,
You've got Oklahoma City next Sunday. Then you've got a
road trip Sacramento, the Clippers, the Warriors. That's your next
six games, and I don't think you're going to be
a commanding favorite in any of them. Perhaps the one
exception Philly if they don't have Paul George and Joel Embiid.
We'll see what happens with the injury report there. But
it's going to be a much more difficult schedule. So

(30:39):
it's not that the Rockets can't win those games. They're
overall metrox. As far as being a good team, I
buy into that, But these aren't the type of games
that you can reasonably expect to win by twenty. You're
gonna have to execute late in close games. So I
think earlier in the shot clock with Shangoon, I think
generally dialing up more on ball usage for a men
in playing with more pace, perhaps so they get out

(31:03):
in transition. To me, those are the things that I
think of in terms of better optimizing this roster. Anything
that I'm missing Powell in terms of I guess what
you can do these next few weeks before there's realistically
a window to do anything externally.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, I think I think Jalen's been so bad that
you have to just just burn all all of your cartridges.
I guess that's the way I'll put it. Like it's
it's very little that you can do that will be
that will be worse offensively, and so I'm at a
point where Cam was was just really cold shooting lies

(31:35):
when he was with the team. I think he's just clearly,
you know, he's clearly too good for the Dleau. So
I think you have to give them another shot. And
when I say give another shot, I know that this
is stuff to do, and this is just to manage within
a locker room. But just give him a full game,
like like say, Jalen, you're not playing this game. Let's
give Kim with more a full game to see how

(31:57):
to see how how it goes, because give him the
exact rodition, it's the exact same responsibilities and see how
it goes because it's been that or. And we shouldn't
be afraid to bench players because of poor performance, regardless
of whether you think that they're putting in the effort
or not. I know that New age basketball fandom is, oh,
but he's trying, So you keep giving him the camps

(32:17):
until he figures it out. At some point, even if
the struggles are purely offensive, purely not making shots, it
is okay to bench the guy because he's not good enough.
I think now you probably won't resonate with us too
much all make it quick. It's the same thing with
wingers in football. If it's not coming through, even if
they're working their ass off defensively, if they're not creating chances,

(32:41):
you sip them and you give a youngster the champs
and maybe maybe maybe they come through and they break out,
but you give them a full chance. You don't stop
them in at sixteen minutes into the game. You give
them the full game so they can acclimate themselves. They
can get into the full of the game. They don't
feel like they have to do too much with too little,
which is what I think happens with Cam all lot

(33:02):
of the times when he comes off the beast. That's
why he shoots his shots per per minute and probably
some of the highest in the league when he does play.
Give him a full a full game. Killen, you're not
playing this game, listen. Make it an excuse if if
you want to, if you don't want to hurt Jalen's
zig or whatever it is you're worried about that, make
it a back to back on the second half of
the back to back and give and give or even

(33:25):
probably not even that. Tell Gillen that he'll play, that
he'll play the second half of we're resting him for
the first game, so so Cam gets the chance with
the full team so they're not tired. So you get
a real look at what it really looks like, and
you give Cam a chance, and if that doesn't work,
I truly, truly, truly want to see what Reachepherd with

(33:46):
the absolute cream white looks like, because he's been scared.
And if he may tells them, hey, you have the
afflute be right. I want you to take all of
the shots that you see that are you think are
good shots, even if you don't feel confident in it. Listen,
this seems so terrible offensively that it cannot be any
worse than what Chilen's currently do. So those are my

(34:08):
two solutions. But if you're gonna do it, you know, really,
you know, put your heart into it. But give them
the full chance, the full game. Not this, Oh Galen's
playing poorly, here you go, you have your chance, Listen.
Kiln has been playing poorly for a long time. So
I'm at that point. And before I pass it off
back to you, I just want to touch on Kaln's contract, right,

(34:31):
are going back and then say, oh, that was a
terrible contract, and it wasn't a good contract. I'm not
gonnay it's a good contract, but it's not. It's nothing
nearly unmovable, and it's the typical contract that you're okay
taking a salary filler. If you're just going into a reveal.
Do you give the guy a couple more years, see
if he can get it straight. If he doesn't, he

(34:51):
has two years and and and and the player option.
It's not crippling for your franchise. And I think as
we approach trade season again, people will will realize that,
you know, thirty million a year is not what it
used to be, and it will actually Kevin's concept will
actually be key to Forrest to make a superstar trade
without giving up Dylan Brooks was playing really well for evently,

(35:13):
and I think a lot of people would struggle with
the concept of giving up Jeff Pream for example, as
a veteran guy Steven Adams, if the strait comes, as
we've talked about before in previous spots, if the strict
comes in the off season, then Steven Adams doesn't Contestpiller
anymore because he's expiring, and I would, you know, I
highly I guess I suspect that's not going to get

(35:37):
his player option picked up. What's likely to happen is
the option gets declined and they resign him with the
early bird rights, because it's how we will Obviously, decrease
of birth rights is enough. Early bird rights is enough.
I'm pretty sure that's how it works. Don't quote me.
Don't quote me on that. My CD anologies is a
bit fuzzy. So going into the off season, Killen's you know,

(35:58):
chunk of the cap is actually what was what's going
to make us be able to trade for one of
these forty to fifty million dollars contracts without giving up
key pieces because if you look at it right now, listen,
Jock Lindell has been a pretty good backup center. I
wouldn't want to be giving him up just as filler
because I think he's actually useful. Jeff Quin's useful, it's expiring,

(36:19):
so he won't be able to be you know, aggregated
in trades even if you do resign them. And so actually,
if you want to make a move like that, Gilen's
contract really comes in handy and it's not what we
would have had cap space otherwise because obviously if you
have cap space and you want to use it as
cap space, and then your cap at the salary cap
instead of being capped way higher at the apron or

(36:42):
the attacks or whatever you want to call it, so
the tax side or whatever you want about. So I
just wanted to turn down a little bit of the
contact because I've been so frustrated with killing and I've
been playing around with trades as of the last week,
and actually Gilen's contact next a lot easier to make
some of these most happen.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yeah, it does, And I think some of this just
comes down to the sticker shock, because a thirty million
dollar figure is not that much in the modern NBA,
and it's going to be even less the next couple
of years. But I don't think fans have you know,
people don't think of this enough in terms of percentage
of the cap, which is what really matters here. It's
not about the raw numbers. A lot of people can't
get past that. I don't think this is an unmovable

(37:19):
deal by any means. I don't think it's a great contract,
but I also don't think it's something that you should
really sweat, especially when the types of players that the
Rockets would like to make a marquee move for were
unlikely to be available in free agency next offseason anyway,
And I don't think Jalen by himself was going to
get the Rocket significantly below mL level because again, you

(37:42):
have your mL at about fifteen million dollars a year.
Even if you're above the cap, as long as you're
not above the second apron, so you would have to
clear out i'd say at least twenty maybe twenty five
million even you'll get to full max room at least
twenty plus million dollars to get to a point where
you could do a lot more on the market than

(38:04):
with just the mL. And there would have been other
moves beyond just Jalen himself that you would have needed
to do to get to that cap space. So that's
why I'm not really sweating the deal that much. And
speaking of the deal, I think that should also make
it a little bit easier to explore other options. Look,
you've given Jalen financial security. I know, you know, at
the end of the day, it's about the team and
not Jalen individually, but yeah, if he hadn't gotten the contract,

(38:27):
then you know, politically it could have been very difficult
to do something, you know, middle of the year, because
you know he's trying to prove himself. There's all this
underlying tension. Look, he's got his money. If he's not performing,
then what else can you really say. You've you know,
shown you believe in him, You've tried to give him
every opportunity. You know, Rafelstone talks about there not being

(38:48):
that other guy on the roster who can replicate his
skill set. I think they're truth in that they have
tried so many different times, and a lot of these
shots are right there on a silver platter. They're just
not going in. And so at some point it does
make it easier to turn the page because you can say, look,
you know, we've tried, we've shown we believe in you,
we are we have given such a long leash. And

(39:11):
you know, I'm not saying that they should do this
on Tuesday in Minnesota, but we're not that far away.
I mean, this could be you know, months, maybe even
weeks if the recent level of play continues. With a
true shooting percentage, I think below fifty just ungodly bad
the last few games. So hopefully, you know, he's due
for a March like run that makes this age very poorly.

(39:31):
But again, we need to see it relatively soon because
by and large, this has been unsustainably bad, unsustainably in
the standpoint of the Rockets as a team, because again,
there's way too much going right for this team. They
are way too good at the defensive end with rebounding,
they're too well coached, they're doing way way too good

(39:52):
with too many other things. To have the season derailed
is too harsh, but limited by a role that is
not that difficult to improve to at least a passable level.
And as you get past December fifteenth, and that's the
unofficial start to trace season around the NBA because that's
when most guys who signed the previous off season are

(40:13):
trade eligible, so it opens up all the possibilities and
so teams take it more seriously at that point. Again,
the Rockets won't go on forever, especially if the team
continues to win games at a clip like they are
now twelve and six, number three in the West. That
suggests they can do real damage, especially if they can
just turn what is now a massive deficiency a massive
weakness and even just make it, you know, league average.

(40:36):
That would do a ton when you combine it with
how clearly above average they are in so many other areas.
All Right, So we've talked to a lot of macro
in the first half of the spot to spin at
more micro because this is one of the rare episodes
that we're able to tape with a couple of days
off in between games. Again, we're recording this early Monday.
The twenty fifth Rockets last played Saturday night against the Blazers.

(40:58):
They play again Tuesday night in Minnesota, and that's an
NBA Cup game that is really big for the Rockets.
We've talked before about how Houston is a team as
young as they are that should disproportionately take these Cup
games seriously, and I think they have. This is the
type of event, just like we saw with the Pacers
last year when they got to the Cup finals, used

(41:19):
as something of a springboard for getting to the Eastern
Conference finals next spring. I think the team even talked
about a couple of times that the increased stage of
those games in Vegas sort of help them know how
to handle the moment when it got to the playoffs,
and so conceivably the Rockets could benefit from that and
we've seen to this point. It's not just they're two
to zero Cup games taking care of business. In the

(41:40):
two home games against the Clippers and the Trailblazers, they
are plus forty nine, which is the best differential in
the Western Conference in Cup games, and so it sets
them up fairly well going into the two road games
at Minnesota and at Sacramento the next two Tuesdays as
they wind down group play. So much is going to
swing on this game in Minnesota. I'll break it down.

(42:03):
If the Rockets win in Minnesota, they win the group.
It's one hundred percent mathematically clinched, because at that point
the Rockets would have three group stage wins. The only
other teams in their group that could mathematically get to
three are the Clippers and the Trailblazers, and the Rockets
already have the head to head tiebreaker by beating both
of those teams. So if you win in Minnesota, and

(42:26):
the Rockets will have two games off going into that
game tomorrow night, you win the group, and not only that,
you would be in a decent position to potentially get
a home game in the knockout round as well. The
way the knockout rounds work. There's four per conference, eight total,
and so you'll have of those four teams, you'll have

(42:47):
the number one seed against the four I think that's
the wildcard, then the two versus the three, and so
the Rockets because of the point differential tiebreaker that they
have run up by taking care of business winning by
twenty plus against both the Clippers and the Blazers, there
wouldn't be a head to head tiebreaker when you're sorting
out who is in the top two seeds of the
four of the Western Conference that advance, So it'll be

(43:08):
determined by point differential. And so if the Rockets can
win their group with the type of differential, if they've
built up, the odds are pretty good that when you
get to the round of eight that they would actually
host that game in Houston and have just a need
just one home game where they are eight and three
this season to get to Vegas for the final four.

(43:32):
So there's a lot to be gained if they win
in Minnesota. If they don't, what makes it such an
impactful game is that they wouldn't be eliminated, they wouldn't
be even close to eliminated, but it would be an
uphill battle to win the group because at that point

(43:52):
Minnesota would be two and one in the group, same
as the Rockets, but Minnesota would then have the tiebreaker
on you based on that head to head win. And
so the only way the Rockets would have a chance
to win the group if they lose Tuesday would be
if Minnesota loses at home to the Clippers the following Tuesday,
which not impossible. Clippers are proving to be a solid team,

(44:13):
but I think the Timberwles at home would be favored
in that game. So you'd need at that point to
go through sort of the back door as the wildcard team,
you'd have to win at Sacramento. Two and two is
not going to get in as a wildcard. Wildcard basically
is the best second place finisher among the three Western
Conference groups and the closest competitors competitor to the Rockets,

(44:34):
because it's going to depend on point differential. The MAVs
have played three group stage games, they are plus forty one.
The Rockets have played two and they are plus forty nine. Well,
in this scenario, if the Rockets are competing with the
MAVs for the wildcard spot, the MAVs are not going
to win their group because they're in the Warriors group.

(44:55):
The Warriors are already clinched, so the Rockets would be
given up some points to the Timberwolves because if the
Rockets beat the Timberwolves, it's relevant. If the Rockets beat
the Timberwolves, they win the group and are more than
likely in the top two of the Western Conference group
winners and thus having a home game. So if you
win in Minnesota, you're looking great. If you lose, you

(45:17):
are again not dead and buried, but probably competing with Dallas,
and so you would be dropping a few points from
the forty nine and Dallas is at forty one. So
any loss by seven or less and you would be
still slightly ahead of Dallas going into the fourth and
final group stage games Dallas at home against Memphis Houston

(45:40):
at Sacramento. Obviously you would need to win that game
at Sacramento. If you don't, you'd bring in not just
Dallas into play, but you know, other three and one teams,
even if they don't have a differential, Well, if they're three
and one in your two and two, then of course
they're going to go ahead of you. So you've got
to get a third win somewhere. Ideally it's in Minnesota,
and then if you don't do it in Minnesota, then
you need to more or less when in Sacramento by

(46:04):
more than Dallas does against Memphis if they win that game.
And so what that ties into is the margin against
the Timberwolves. Ideally you win, and then you know you
can celebrate moving on and be in a position to
you know, actually host the game for the right to
go to Vegas. But if you lose, at least mitigating
the margin to where it's you know, keeping you on

(46:24):
level or ideally slightly ahead of Dallas, and then at
that point you'd be in pretty good shape to know
going into the finale in Sacramento that as long as
you win that game, you probably advance as a wildcard team.
We wouldn't have a home game in that scenario, but
you would at least get you know, into the dance.
You'd get into you know, the knockout round, the final

(46:46):
four to the West, the final eight of the NBA,
and then see what happens again. At some point, it's
just about being on the bigger stage, being in these
bigger games, and you know, hopefully you win the whole thing.
But regardless, just get in some of these bigger games
and hopefully the young team or instrument and guys get better.
So the bottom line, there's a lot to be taken
out of this game in Minnesota. Good thing the Rockets

(47:06):
have a couple of days off to get their legs
by underneath them. But it's a game that worries me
because in the past, the Timberwolves with Rudy Gobert our
team the Rockets have really struggled against. I don't think
it's a coincidence that the one game I remember the
Rockets taking from the Timberwolves in recent years was that
game in the final year of Stephen Silas when Jalen

(47:27):
went for what remains his career high forty two points.
He tied it last March, but remember that game the
Rockets won a long losing streak and he put up
forty two.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
I don't I'm all kind of be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
I don't, okay, fair enough anyway, I think the reason
that was the one game that the Rockets beat the
Wolves in this you know, Rudy Gobert era of Minnesota,
is that you need a Jalen great archetype.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
It's the game where where Dylan was falling away and
hit a crazy shall after Bundique tur of the Gobert,
I do I do? Now I do because it just
spent to Rudy Goilero was like, wait, yeah I do,
I did?

Speaker 2 (48:10):
That was crazy and yeah, of course they still had
Karl Anthony Towns at that point. Well look in the box.
Now Kat didn't play in that game, but they had Yeah,
Rudy Gobert started at center and ant played in that
game scored thirty one. They had Dangelo Russell who scored
thirty Nasried played off the bench. But I don't even
think Towns, who since been replaced by Julius Randall, is

(48:31):
all that important to why the Timberwolves are difficult matchup
for the Rockets. I think the timber Roles are a
difficult match up for the Rockets because Gobert does make
life a little more difficult on all par Inshion Goon. No,
he won't just you know, take him out of the
game by any stretch, but it's tough to just you know,
expect Shoon to dominate that matchup. And then the presence

(48:52):
of Gobert near the room makes it difficult for your
guys like a man atari that slash that want to
get out and do damage going downhill. It's a more
difficult matchup. Again, it's not impossible, and maybe you get
them into foul trouble, but it's one in which the
pain is more closed off against the Timberwolves than it
is against a lot of teams. And I think they're

(49:13):
a team that Houston has struggled against because of this
deficiency that we let off the pod discussing, which is
the lack of a perimeter based scorer that can do
it at all three levels. When you can't get to
the rim, the threes aren't following, how do you just
create and make something happen the game. The Rockets did
it against Minnesota, not a coincidence. Jalen dropped forty two

(49:35):
points on sixty percent shooting overall and fifty percent on threes,
and so you know the opportunity will be there. The
Timberwolves don't help as much because they want Gobaar defending
the rim, so the opportunities will be there to get
quality mid range shots, to hit threes. It's just about

(49:58):
if the Rockets make them. And some of this, you know,
one of the things that was very frustrating about that
Portland game against Donovan Klington, who had I think nineteen
boards and three block shots. You know, the Rockets went
into this season talking a lot about the importance of
the math advantage, and we know after the All Star
Break last year they shot over forty threes per game

(50:20):
and they were second to only Boston in that stretch.
This year, they talked a big game about wanting to
continue that, and you know, play at the same fast pace,
but the pace, the three point volume, it's all fall
in the middle of the pack. And what tends to
happen is that when the threes aren't falling, they shy
away from it a little bit, and that's human nature.

(50:42):
I understand why. But if the alternative is, you know,
driving into a guy like Donovan Klington on Saturday Night
who's just a behemoth defending the rim, or Rudy Gobert
in Minnesota, then you're probably better off just shooting more
threes and trusting that at some point the luck is
going to turn. And so that's what I worry about

(51:03):
with this game. And it doesn't have to be threes
are layups you no, ideally, the mid range is an
option as well. But you know, Jalen has been an
awful mid range shooter to this point of the season,
and I don't know who else you have that really
consistently creates a shot in those areas. Maybe uh Fred
and Charie and a men and a pinch, but for

(51:23):
various reasons, none do it all that consistently. So I
just think if they don't get Gobert defoul trouble, you know,
ideally it's a good Jalen game, that's the easiest way
to win. And then if not, I mean, I'm not
saying that every game the Rockets seem to be bombs
away from three, but if you're going against a Klingon

(51:43):
or a Gobert type that just you know, takes away
the paint and makes your shots at the rim much
more difficult, are your offensive rebound attempts much more difficult
than they otherwise would be, then I don't know, maybe
you are better off just going bombs away and hoping
that the three point luck turns. Hopefully, you know, a
couple of days off, you'll have fresher legs. But I

(52:04):
just feel like, you know, the biggest variables hitting threes,
that's the biggest variable at any NBA game, and then
you know, getting the right version of Jalen Green. To me,
those are the biggest keys in a match up against
the Timberwolves and Gobert, And really I think if Joelle
Embiid plays, many of the same things apply when you
play the Sixers on Wednesday. Or the Sixers have a

(52:25):
bad record, but that's because they haven't been healthy. The
talent is still there. So you're seeing a stretch now
where the Rockets are gonna going up against a lot
of teams clinging go bear Embiid that have massive size
inside and traditional rim protection which cuts against the you know,
some of the advantages of the Rockets to start this year,

(52:46):
which is the downhill attacking, the slashing, the crashing the
offensive boards. So how do you overcome that? I think
good Jalen is the easiest way. I think good three
point shooting is the other. Time will tell if they're
able to do that. But that's why I'm little bit
nervous about this matchup. I mean, I know the Timberwolves
are underwhelmed. They've lost in Boston today. I'll be a
close game, so they're eight and eight, But with Jalen

(53:07):
playing like this and the threes being certainly not great.
It's a matchup that makes me a little bit nervous,
and the same could be said for Philadelphia on wednesdayssiming
Joelle and b plays. So, Powell, what do you think
as far as you know, I think we agree this
is a huge game for their Cup chances, but in
terms of how they actually do it, boy, the Timber
Rowles feel like a team to me that's disproportionately going

(53:30):
to benefit from that deficiency in terms of prepator score
that we've been describing this whole pot.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah, I think I think they're all in all just
so they are little match up for us because what
you said about the about the room protecting big, I
think it's also because they don't really have any guide
that the Druggets can ignore or force to shoot a
ship and the threes. We've done this a lot of
the tames that we have played where we we kind
of their guide Toude. I think Chris done with the

(53:57):
Clippers was when that comes to mind. For example, there's
an other times where we pick a guy that we
know it's not comfortable shooting, even if his personally is
are not that great, and we tear them to shoot
like them threes in the game, and with the Wolves,
I'm not seeing who you can do that with, especially
because if you do it with Rando, it's you know,
he's probably the guy who you would target, but we
typically do it with a guy that's on one of

(54:19):
the wings, saying, Rendol's probably gonna be in the corner
and he's facing so it's gonna be a tough matchup
because of that, and also just because we have great
Arboll defenders with the Men and Dylan and and Turi,
But Anthony Edwards is one of those rare guys in
the league where great defense doesn't really matter. If he's
got it on, you know, they can be draped on him.

(54:41):
He just needs to get a sliver space to shoot,
and he can do it on mid grade gun threes,
on on everything. So if anthimy others is cooking, we
have little to no chance. No matter how good armed
defenders are. I think if you look at Killan Brown,
you can exploit all the fact that he doesn't that
he's gonna be over li Roal Ironed on the gym
plat because he's hand not that great. If you're playing,
if you're playing Wuoka. It's you can, you know, try

(55:03):
and try to force him to just shoot a lot
of three. Then he'll set all it to those like
a lot of a lot of the guys in the league.
You can or other guards like Lillard, you can exploit
the fact that they're short that element can you know,
crowd resplace a lot more. It's I think Edwards is
just the combination of the size with the building and
the ease with which he gets to his jump shot.

(55:25):
He's just the type of player that no matter how
if your team is focused on defense, he's a type
of player that's made in a lab to beat good defense.
Like Kimmy Butter is the same thing. And so we're
gonna have, no matter how good your defense is going
to have trouble shutting him down. And you can look
at his history against the Rockets, he's, you know, on average,

(55:46):
counting his rookie season is rookie season numbers, he's at
twenty six five and three with two steals and like
I think fifty thirty eight five eight eighty six plaits,
which doesn't sound that great, was when you consider that
that's including his rookie numbers. His rookie season numbers. He's

(56:07):
just he's like he's someone us to deal with. And
I'm not gonna say it was an I think last
ball we were about to play with him, were we
were about to play the last ball that I that
I said that I thought they were really good. They
were they were, oh the Clippers when we were about
to play the Clippers, and I thought the Clippers were
a really good matep for us. I think the Wolves
are the opposite. And obviously we beat up the pretty

(56:29):
you know, pretty handily both times. With the Wolves that
we've got a hope that stum thing's off, because if
they're playing their average game and their guys are playing
their average games, it's just a terrible matsap for us.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Yeah, And I went and looked it up. Since October
twenty twenty one, which is when the Rockets were obviously
starting the Jalen Green era and Anthony Edward is taking
off for the Chimberwolves, the Rockets are one to nine
against the Chimberwolves. The one win was the one where
Jalen went off. The others the closest the Rockets have

(57:04):
been is seven points. Now, I guess the one, you know,
little silver Lining you can point to the last game
they played in Minnesota was at the start of April,
and the Rockets were very competitive in that game and
actually went down to the wires. So maybe they're figuring
something out most of that stretch obviously the Steven Silas era,
So it's just total apples to oranges terms of the
defense of this team and the rebounding compared to you know,

(57:25):
how they played back then. But I think, you know,
for the Rockets, it's less about the defense and it's
just much more offensively. They just struggle. So the last
six games against the Timberwolves, they've scored ninety six or
fewer points in three of them. That's not good in
the modern NBA. So again, I think a lot of

(57:47):
this just comes down to since they got Gobert, which
at the start of the twenty two to twenty three season,
the Timberwolves are just a tough matchup for the way
the Rockets are built, because to beat the Timberwolves, they're
the type of team that you need one of those
shot creators, and I think it's why they sort of
got sliced up by Luca and Kyrie in the playoffs, right.
But the way they defend the rim, and they take

(58:08):
away some of the simple stuff. You need somebody to
score at all three levels to just go out and make,
you know, go out and get some tough buckets. That's
the way they're built. And the Rockets right now just
don't have the They just don't have the formula to
do that on a consistent basis. They do when they
get the right version of Jaalen, but when they don't
have the right version of Jailen. To me, that's the problem, right,
And I think that's why Dallas, you know, was just

(58:30):
a portion really a good matchup against Minnesota in the playoffs,
and it's why we might be a pretty bad one.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
I am not even going to let myself get hopeful
about a good young game. It's been I think in
his last thirteen games he has forty six percent through
shooting fifteen points a game. Jesus like, his percentage just
don't look good. But when you take out the first
four games where he who was, you know, just completely
going off, it's in thirteen games and it's been just really,

(58:58):
really really awful. So it's been out of the league
awful if you will, If you wanted this, yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
He did play well in Chicago, but that was just
a laugher. It's frustrating because he's had a couple of
games where it felt like he started well and ran
out of gas. I think, you know that first Clippers
game where it felt like the Rockets expected and maybe
the Clippers themselves because they emptied the bench and yet
sort of got back in it. You know, I think

(59:26):
he started efficiently in that game. I remember because I
had a story for Rockets Squire that I was putting together,
you know, bragging on him, and then I sort of
had to rework it because by the end I'm looking
at his box sport already finished oh seven of twenty one,
so we started efficiently that it fell off. The same
could be said. You know, he started really well in
that Blazers game they won on Friday, but he ended
up finishing six of seventeen. So there are stretches, there

(59:47):
are moments, and you hope that he can build on it.
But it's been a while. Other than that game in
Chicago where everybody ate because the Bulls were just terrible. Yeah,
he has not put together a complete game and uh,
some time, God, you gotta go say that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Yeah, the brightest minds of Rockets. Twitter have tried, tried
for years to listen, tried for years to find some
sort of pattern. We've tried everything. We've tried home games
versus away games, remember when that was a thing. We've
tried the months of the year. We've tried certain matchups,
certain types of teams, rim protector, no rim protector. These

(01:00:21):
are under screens, teams that go over screens. That's that's
just literally no pattern. Whatever I think it's it's it's
actually a really good case study. It's just completely random
said we need we need to. I don't know if
you remember way by Quen when Dave's atamos here there
was a famous Creddit post that that correlated his performance
with the quality of the strip clubs in the in

(01:00:43):
the city. Do you remember that we need some some
obviously not a strip clubs, because was not famous for that.
I don't think we need to. We need someone to
get into like some just random variable to see if
they can correlated with his goods, because I'm completely lost.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Although I will say to leave off on a more
optimistic note on a couple of levels, I think just
as much as Minnesota is a bad matchup for the Rockets.
I think that final Cup game the Kings. I think
the Kings are a pretty good matchup for Houston. They're
built very differently. They don't have that type of rim protector.
You look, the Rockets won with ease. That was well
the game that Shindoon got hurt, but he got hurt

(01:01:22):
in the final minute. In Sacramento last March, that was
one of the more complete games of the season. I
think if they can get out of Minnesota without losing
that too big of a margin, they all have a
decent opportunity to at least advance as a wildcard team
with a good win in Sacramento, where you know, I'm
following the Kings for multiple reasons because the Kings it
feels like they've sort of plateaued. I watched them because

(01:01:43):
they were, you know, in the Cup group of the Rockets,
and they got obliterated by the Clippers on Friday. Daran
Fox is a guy who could come on the radar.
I mean, he didn't sign his extension with the Kings.
I know, you know, they say it's because oh he
can wait and get the Supermax. But the Kings have
sort of plateau and he's got ties to Houston. Jalen
Green has ties to central California. He's from Fresno. So

(01:02:06):
if the Kings have an underwhelming season and a tough West,
they don't make the playoffs, I think they're what eight
and eight to this point, I think, you know the Rockets,
you know, worst case, even if it lose in Minnesota. Yeah,
they are eight and eight. I've lost their last two
point differential just plus two point zero. Fox is someone
that I would be interested in pursuing next offseason. Obviously

(01:02:28):
it's not to the level of Devin Booker, but if
he's not available and it looks like the Suns aren't
going off the rails, I'd be interested in seeing what
a Fox scenario would look like. Here, that's more of
a macro point the micro. I think the Rockets are.
You know, the Kings are a pretty favorable matchup for Houston.
So those are a couple of little things to watch.
Anything you want to add on the Kings slash garon

(01:02:48):
Fox Watch.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Front, it's not as good a fit as Levin Booker is,
just because he's not going to shoot the same volume
of threes. But was it I'm aderon Fox fan? I
was actually you know earlier in this career, I really
liked him, and then I can just started thinking that
he was dynafite, chill and just not going to get
all the way there in one of those could that
gets paid a lot to be just a no gay

(01:03:09):
star and not actually superstar. But he's shooting, as it proved,
and he is, you know, the exact type of guy
that we need. And the he can just go get
a bucket from the perimeter, EG point and he can
do it from from all three.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Levels as well.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
And he has the experience playing with the shing gun
type big with triple handoffs, so there might be less
of a learning curbent than there would be with Booker obviously,
As as I said, Boogers the perfect night because of
the type of way that he is and the situation
between Houston and Phoenix where if it's set turned apart,
they have to talk to us. But the Unfox and
the games will definitely be a really really good second option.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Yeah, and looking at the head to have Rockets swept
the Kings last year. I know Fox did miss a
couple of those games, but they won the last one
in Sacramento as well, and then the last game, and
the previous season was the controversial Eric Gordon fowl in
the final second when he got allegedly Deer and Fox
on the hip and the Kings escaped with a two
point win in Houston. So the Rockets have played the

(01:04:07):
Kings for a while. So that's the one sober lining
I'll throw out before we wrap up the pod. The Rockets,
even if they don't match up well with the Timberwolves, historically,
they have with this era of the Kings with erin
Fox and demantas Sabonis, so they do have that in
their back pocket. And so hopefully the Rockets can keep
the margin manageable in Minnesota even if they don't win,
and then they'll have everything in front of them as
they go after the Kings on Tuesday. The third won't

(01:04:30):
be part of a back to back, so the good
dues these final Tuoe Cup games, they'll be rested on
both of those, so they'll have every opportunity and we'll
see if they can take advantage. Anyway, that's where we
will wrap it for today. We've covered a lot of
ground and we intended to because we know we have
been almost two weeks about an episode. But again, that's
because of the schedule. I think we'll probably have another
one towards the back half of this week. Stay tuned

(01:04:50):
for that. But yeah, last week five games and seven
nights probably saw it, and the Rockets reflected in the
Rockets play towards the end of that. This week thankfully
a lot more manageable. There is the back to back
in Minnesota and Philadelphia, but those are actually the only
games of the week. Tuesday and Wednesday the back to back,
and they don't play again until next Sunday at home
against Oklahoma City and haven't played since last Saturday, be

(01:05:11):
deflating home loss to Portland. So hopefully the rust will
help the Rockets even more because I do think with
some of these deficiencies we've been discussing, the Rockets are
a team that has to depend a little bit more
on effort. They have to be a tryhard team, and
hopefully having fresher legs will help them do that as
they attempt to overcome some of these shot creation deficiencies.
Let's put it mildly that we've been discussing for a

(01:05:32):
lot of this pod, namely surrounding Jalen Green. Anyway, that's
where we'll wrap it for today, and if you want
more content before the next show, the best place to
get it is online again. You can follow me on Twitter,
slash acts at Benjubo's powlo at Palo Alves, NBA, and
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(01:05:53):
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for listening, and please come back soon for another new

(01:06:14):
episode of the Logger Line