July 1, 2025 • 12 mins
In a phone segment on Tuesday’s The Sean Salisbury Show (SportsTalk 790), our Ben DuBose offers insight on Houston’s rapid free agency agreements with Dorian Finney-Smith and Clint Capela.
Other topics include what weaknesses the Rockets still have, if any; whether general manager Rafael Stone might pursue another All-Star acquisition to pair with Kevin Durant; and perspective on why Cam Whitmore appears to be a trade candidate.
Other topics include what weaknesses the Rockets still have, if any; whether general manager Rafael Stone might pursue another All-Star acquisition to pair with Kevin Durant; and perspective on why Cam Whitmore appears to be a trade candidate.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
The Rockets Dory and Finney Smith here on a four
year deal and Clint Capella here on a three year deal.
And to help us talk more about it, you hear
him here as part of our platform on the iHeartRadio
app with the logger Line podcast. He's been covering the
Rockets for quite some time. Rockets Wire another place that
you can find his work part of USA. Today he
(00:24):
is beIN Dubo's been appreciate the time this morning, let's
just start. I mean, you know, we heard the rumors
yesterday that Dory and Finney Smith was a possibility. But
when you heard the news about Clint Cappella, what immediately
came the mind for you?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It was definitely shocking. The first thing I wondered about
was is there something big cooking? Like everybody? I sort
of wondered, hey, are they about to flip Alpride, Fragon
and some guys for Yannis, because now you have two
veteran centers and Steven Adams and Clint Capella that could
conceivably fill those minutes. But the more I thought about it,
the more I did some digging, it dawned on me
(00:59):
that hey, this this is such a friendly contract. Clint
Cappella is getting paid less than Jack Landil was last year,
and he's a far better player, so there is a
role there. We saw Landale play a decent bit last
year because you know, Stepman Adams is now in his thirties,
he needs to be oade managed and unlike Jack Landale,
Clint Cappella is a lob threat. He's an above the
(01:19):
rim guy, so he provides a different type of player.
Now down the road, he could be tradable salary, or
perhaps having Clint makes it to where if Joannis comes
available later and you think you need to do something
like that, then I guess the optionality that you can
backfill the center minutes. I'm sure that's part of it.
But the more I think about it, and the more
I did some digging, I think, honestly, it just comes
(01:41):
down to the fact that, look, Jack Landale had a
role last season, but Clint Capella is an upgrade and
he's going to get paid less money, so why wouldn't
you do it. It's an awkward bit because he's definitely
overqualified to be a third string center, but if you
can get a better player making less money, why wouldn't
you do it? Ultimately where I sort of landed on.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
This absolutely Ben. Is there a big deal still ahead?
Is there a chance that Giannis is possibly in play,
or that Shen Gouon or someone like that gets moved,
or are they done?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I think for now they're probably done, I could see.
So one thing to keep in mind as you go
into the season, these guys that they've signed in the
off season, most notably Capella and Dorey Anthony Smith, will
become tradable. I think December fifteenth is the date, and
so these guys that are on friendly contracts or any
(02:34):
one years that they sign, you can potentially aggregate salaries
during the year, and that might be more realistic anyway,
both the Rockets and you know, a team such as
Milwaukee might want to give it a little bit of
a trial run and then if it's not working out,
you can look for a big deal during the season.
I think it's difficult to pull off now, both in
terms of do the Rockets have enough salaries and also
(02:57):
just because with bringing in Kevin Durant and the guys
that they've signed. Even if you could theoretically package like
three or four players for one and bring in a
Giannis or Lebron or someone like that. They're now you know,
we're getting in the weeds here with the salary cap,
but they're basically hard capped at the first apron, that's
what it's called. And you would then have to fill
those roster spots. So even if you do a four
(03:19):
for one, you still have to eventually time players for
those roster spots, right, and so it would be very
difficult to do that for the full season. You might
could do it midway through and you'll have more options then,
But for now, I think they're probably done, and this
is a team that I think by and large they'll
take the training gap.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Hey Ben, this Vegas loves what they've done. Obviously we've
all seen and there is an excitement, the buzz around it,
and you're dialed into this team. Where's the weakness now,
at least on paper, where's the weakness when you look
at them heading into this.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Season, I think it's more so people will question if
they have enough guards because they've traded Jalen Green, who
is their primary backcourt in the Kevin Durant deal, and
most people look at KD as a forward. Now, what
I'll tell you, Sean Internally inside the building, they view
(04:09):
Kevin Durant as a shooting guard. So I don't think
I had I had him as the two.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I had him play in the two right is exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's where I had him exactly. Now. Defensively, I think
he'll probably guard forwards because he'll be thirty seven and
Aman Thompson is quick enough that even if he's technically
a forward, he can guard guards on the other end.
But I think people will look at them and say, hey,
they don't really have a traditional guard in terms of,
you know, a super athletic guy that can pressure the rim,
(04:38):
and so how is that going to work against a
really good defense like Oklahoma City, who's obviously their primary competition.
But I think what they'll tell you, number one, with
Kevin Durant, you might can shoot your way out of it.
And secondly, I think what ties all of these signings
together they want to be a bigger team. That's something
I've heard all off season when I talk to people
(04:59):
in the building there is that when you look at
their data last year, they were at their best when
it was just one let's say point guard either Fredens
leader Jalen Green, not both just one of those guys
and then you had three wings and a center. And
so the idea and this plays into emy Udoka's coaching
style as well, with how he wants to be tough physical. Basically,
(05:21):
the more size the better. And so guys like Dorian
Phinney Smith and Clint Capella they can set screen, they
can crash the glass. In Phinty Smith's case, he can
shoot and face the four. They just want more long,
rangy bodies that can you know, defend in space, can
jump the passing lanes, can be physical. And I think
the way they're looking at this, Sean is that they
(05:43):
don't necessarily need a traditional shooting guard to sort of
attack the rim. They want to do it with more
size and shooting, and they think that they have enough
long rangey, physical guys that they can generate often. You know,
there was this talk in the playoffs about a double
big and to all Brinch and Good and stevens Adam's credit,
it did work well, but it wasn't just the two
(06:06):
of them. It was more that they were big in general.
They often played Jabari Smith at six to eleven at
the three. So I think what they're trying to do,
you know, philosophically, I understand the question. So I think
the way they look at it is that if you
have the shooting of Kevin Durant, and you have all
these long guys and athletic freak like a Men Thompson,
that even if it doesn't look traditionally like the way
(06:26):
a modern NBA offense runs, that they can get the
production that they need simply because they're that damn big
and they can just crash the glass and do all
the little things that we know Emo Ugoka wants his
team to do again.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
He's part of Rockets Wire as part of USA Today.
Also too, you can hear him as part of the
logger Line podcast, which is available right here on the
iHeartRadio app. He's been to bos Ben. I mean you mentioned,
you know the possibility of the larger move that's out there,
because I mean, I'm in that camp that wonders if
these moves are being made to set up the massive
(06:59):
move to go get Yanna Santa Compo. But where they
sit salary cap wise, do you see any other small
moves maybe that need to be made in order for
anything else to be thought about?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I am watching what's going to happen with Cam whatmore.
And it may not be to bring in an immediate upgrade.
It could be simply that hey, Cam's going into year
three and whether he's here somewhere else for his development
to maximize this contract, he needs to play. And you've
already got a clear top nine between the starters, and
then the four top guys off the bench will be
(07:30):
Tari Eathan, Steven Adams, Dorian Phinney, Smith and Reed Shepherd.
So I am watching Cam. Maybe they keep Cam because
they think he can sort of fit into that mold
I was just describing. He sits, but seventy's a super athlete.
We know he's very physical. So maybe they keep him
and try to play a ten man rotation, or maybe
they try and find another home for him. I think
(07:51):
that's something that they're going to try and resolve in
the next few days. I will say that if you
keep him, you don't at the end of your bench
the way they did for a lot of last year
going into your three. If you keep him, you need
to have a plan to actually play him, And so
I think that's a discussion that they're going to have.
But I really think the more I look at these contracts,
which that's something that under orfell Stone for years. They
(08:13):
have been very disciplined in the contract that they give out.
I really think that you're largely going to go to
camp as is. Maybe you move Cam whitmore, maybe there's
you know, a move around the margins to add one
more shooter to the back court. They are a little
bit thin there, but I don't think it's going to
be anything drastic. What I think they want is the flexibility,
as you said, to make a move later. And at
(08:35):
this point, you know, the draft is gone, free agency,
the first wave is come and went, so it's not
impossible for another big name to hit the market this
off season. But I think it's a lot less likely
than it was, you know, a month or two ago.
So I think by and large the plan is get
to the season as is, to see how it goes,
and then if you get to December, you get to
(08:56):
January and things aren't progressing as you would like, then
they do have the option to pursue some of those
bigger moves later.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
All right, Ben, let me get some closure on this
Jalen Green thing. I contend, and maybe I'm wrong that
had it been reversed against Golden State. Let's say he
played six good games and as one you know, crap
out right where a year in age down his leg
doesn't play well. Would they have would this move have
been made? When did they decide that it was time
to move on from Jalen Green.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I don't think it was just because of the playoffs,
but it certainly it certainly didn't help the way I
looked at this. So if you can get Kevin Durant
at a low price point, which they did, really the
only young assets they gave up were the number ten
pick in the draft and Jalen Green, Right, that's pretty
(09:44):
low from an assets standpoint, and he was an All
Star last year and he's still you know, his game
should age well. I should have two or three great
years still left, and so especially with Jalen now on
a more expensive contract which they signed him to prior
to last season. The only way that I think in
the long run you'd be, you know, regretting trading Jalen
(10:07):
Green is if he turned into like a legit all
NBA guy, like top ten, top fifteen. And I think
we've seen enough now after four years, and you have
got to see what happens in the playoffs, it's fair
to say that's unlikely. Like I don't think you should
conclude that Jalen Green is a terrible basketball player or
anything like that. No, that's way too reactionary. But I
will say that they've given him enough of a runway
(10:30):
to where we can safely say he's probably not going
to be a legit star. And if he's not a star,
at the money he's making, and with so many of
these young guys do for new deals in the coming years,
you know one other factor behind them being so aggressive
this offseason. They really believe in Amn Thompson and a
men Thompson has got two more years on his rookie
(10:52):
scale deal. So Sean is kind of like in football
when you have a star quarterback on that first contract
and you really want to load up while he's cheap.
That's the window for the Rockets right now. With the
men Thompson, they think they have a star level player
who has two more years very cheap. So if Jalen's
not going to be worth his contract in that window
and you can get a Kevin Durant, I think they
(11:13):
had to do it. And you know, that's no disrespect
to Jalen I think he can still be a good
player in the NBA, but the odds of him being
a star, I think at this point those have dropped significantly.
And if he's not going to be a star, I
don't think you're going to regret moving on from him,
especially if he's really the only piece that goes out
for Kevin, Friehan and Ben.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
That's such a great point because well c J. Stroud
is what you're talking about about. A men Thompson right now.
You know a rookie salary who's going to make sixty
million bucks a year when it happens to get it
while the getting's good. In truth and Dan and Ben
both even if Jalen Green turned out to be that guy,
you know Ben that he's a top fifteen player. If
the Rockets win a World Series under this window with
Kevin Durant, it won't matter what he does, it will
(11:54):
have been worth it. At least that's the way I feel.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Because the rings they win a World seriod, that would
be pretty.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Did I say World Series I met a World champion?
Yeah that too, they do, that'll be double. But if
they do, I knew where you're going on. I was
gonna let you go. Hell and if then, if the
Astros win an NBA championship, they'll be great to tell
it'll be it'll be worth it no matter what he does,
if they put a ring on their finger. Ben, that's
just the bottom line. It'll be worth it.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Absolutely Yep. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
You can find them part of the logger Line podcast.
Listen to it right here on the iHeartRadio app and
also to part of the USA Today with the Rockets Wire.
He's been to Bo's. Ben, appreciate your time this morning. No,
it's been pretty busy, but appreciate you spending a few
minutes with us.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Great stuff, Ben, Thanks man, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Guys,
The Rockets Dory and Finney Smith here on a four
year deal and Clint Capella here on a three year deal.
And to help us talk more about it, you hear
him here as part of our platform on the iHeartRadio
app with the logger Line podcast. He's been covering the
Rockets for quite some time. Rockets Wire another place that
you can find his work part of USA. Today he
(00:24):
is beIN Dubo's been appreciate the time this morning, let's
just start. I mean, you know, we heard the rumors
yesterday that Dory and Finney Smith was a possibility. But
when you heard the news about Clint Cappella, what immediately
came the mind for you?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It was definitely shocking. The first thing I wondered about
was is there something big cooking? Like everybody? I sort
of wondered, hey, are they about to flip Alpride, Fragon
and some guys for Yannis, because now you have two
veteran centers and Steven Adams and Clint Capella that could
conceivably fill those minutes. But the more I thought about it,
the more I did some digging, it dawned on me
(00:59):
that hey, this this is such a friendly contract. Clint
Cappella is getting paid less than Jack Landil was last year,
and he's a far better player, so there is a
role there. We saw Landale play a decent bit last
year because you know, Stepman Adams is now in his thirties,
he needs to be oade managed and unlike Jack Landale,
Clint Cappella is a lob threat. He's an above the
(01:19):
rim guy, so he provides a different type of player.
Now down the road, he could be tradable salary, or
perhaps having Clint makes it to where if Joannis comes
available later and you think you need to do something
like that, then I guess the optionality that you can
backfill the center minutes. I'm sure that's part of it.
But the more I think about it, and the more
I did some digging, I think, honestly, it just comes
(01:41):
down to the fact that, look, Jack Landale had a
role last season, but Clint Capella is an upgrade and
he's going to get paid less money, so why wouldn't
you do it. It's an awkward bit because he's definitely
overqualified to be a third string center, but if you
can get a better player making less money, why wouldn't
you do it? Ultimately where I sort of landed on.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
This absolutely Ben. Is there a big deal still ahead?
Is there a chance that Giannis is possibly in play,
or that Shen Gouon or someone like that gets moved,
or are they done?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I think for now they're probably done, I could see.
So one thing to keep in mind as you go
into the season, these guys that they've signed in the
off season, most notably Capella and Dorey Anthony Smith, will
become tradable. I think December fifteenth is the date, and
so these guys that are on friendly contracts or any
(02:34):
one years that they sign, you can potentially aggregate salaries
during the year, and that might be more realistic anyway,
both the Rockets and you know, a team such as
Milwaukee might want to give it a little bit of
a trial run and then if it's not working out,
you can look for a big deal during the season.
I think it's difficult to pull off now, both in
terms of do the Rockets have enough salaries and also
(02:57):
just because with bringing in Kevin Durant and the guys
that they've signed. Even if you could theoretically package like
three or four players for one and bring in a
Giannis or Lebron or someone like that. They're now you know,
we're getting in the weeds here with the salary cap,
but they're basically hard capped at the first apron, that's
what it's called. And you would then have to fill
those roster spots. So even if you do a four
(03:19):
for one, you still have to eventually time players for
those roster spots, right, and so it would be very
difficult to do that for the full season. You might
could do it midway through and you'll have more options then,
But for now, I think they're probably done, and this
is a team that I think by and large they'll
take the training gap.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Hey Ben, this Vegas loves what they've done. Obviously we've
all seen and there is an excitement, the buzz around it,
and you're dialed into this team. Where's the weakness now,
at least on paper, where's the weakness when you look
at them heading into this.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Season, I think it's more so people will question if
they have enough guards because they've traded Jalen Green, who
is their primary backcourt in the Kevin Durant deal, and
most people look at KD as a forward. Now, what
I'll tell you, Sean Internally inside the building, they view
(04:09):
Kevin Durant as a shooting guard. So I don't think
I had I had him as the two.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I had him play in the two right is exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's where I had him exactly. Now. Defensively, I think
he'll probably guard forwards because he'll be thirty seven and
Aman Thompson is quick enough that even if he's technically
a forward, he can guard guards on the other end.
But I think people will look at them and say, hey,
they don't really have a traditional guard in terms of,
you know, a super athletic guy that can pressure the rim,
(04:38):
and so how is that going to work against a
really good defense like Oklahoma City, who's obviously their primary competition.
But I think what they'll tell you, number one, with
Kevin Durant, you might can shoot your way out of it.
And secondly, I think what ties all of these signings
together they want to be a bigger team. That's something
I've heard all off season when I talk to people
(04:59):
in the building there is that when you look at
their data last year, they were at their best when
it was just one let's say point guard either Fredens
leader Jalen Green, not both just one of those guys
and then you had three wings and a center. And
so the idea and this plays into emy Udoka's coaching
style as well, with how he wants to be tough physical. Basically,
(05:21):
the more size the better. And so guys like Dorian
Phinney Smith and Clint Capella they can set screen, they
can crash the glass. In Phinty Smith's case, he can
shoot and face the four. They just want more long,
rangy bodies that can you know, defend in space, can
jump the passing lanes, can be physical. And I think
the way they're looking at this, Sean is that they
(05:43):
don't necessarily need a traditional shooting guard to sort of
attack the rim. They want to do it with more
size and shooting, and they think that they have enough
long rangey, physical guys that they can generate often. You know,
there was this talk in the playoffs about a double
big and to all Brinch and Good and stevens Adam's credit,
it did work well, but it wasn't just the two
(06:06):
of them. It was more that they were big in general.
They often played Jabari Smith at six to eleven at
the three. So I think what they're trying to do,
you know, philosophically, I understand the question. So I think
the way they look at it is that if you
have the shooting of Kevin Durant, and you have all
these long guys and athletic freak like a Men Thompson,
that even if it doesn't look traditionally like the way
(06:26):
a modern NBA offense runs, that they can get the
production that they need simply because they're that damn big
and they can just crash the glass and do all
the little things that we know Emo Ugoka wants his
team to do again.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
He's part of Rockets Wire as part of USA Today.
Also too, you can hear him as part of the
logger Line podcast, which is available right here on the
iHeartRadio app. He's been to bos Ben. I mean you mentioned,
you know the possibility of the larger move that's out there,
because I mean, I'm in that camp that wonders if
these moves are being made to set up the massive
(06:59):
move to go get Yanna Santa Compo. But where they
sit salary cap wise, do you see any other small
moves maybe that need to be made in order for
anything else to be thought about?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I am watching what's going to happen with Cam whatmore.
And it may not be to bring in an immediate upgrade.
It could be simply that hey, Cam's going into year
three and whether he's here somewhere else for his development
to maximize this contract, he needs to play. And you've
already got a clear top nine between the starters, and
then the four top guys off the bench will be
(07:30):
Tari Eathan, Steven Adams, Dorian Phinney, Smith and Reed Shepherd.
So I am watching Cam. Maybe they keep Cam because
they think he can sort of fit into that mold
I was just describing. He sits, but seventy's a super athlete.
We know he's very physical. So maybe they keep him
and try to play a ten man rotation, or maybe
they try and find another home for him. I think
(07:51):
that's something that they're going to try and resolve in
the next few days. I will say that if you
keep him, you don't at the end of your bench
the way they did for a lot of last year
going into your three. If you keep him, you need
to have a plan to actually play him, And so
I think that's a discussion that they're going to have.
But I really think the more I look at these contracts,
which that's something that under orfell Stone for years. They
(08:13):
have been very disciplined in the contract that they give out.
I really think that you're largely going to go to
camp as is. Maybe you move Cam whitmore, maybe there's
you know, a move around the margins to add one
more shooter to the back court. They are a little
bit thin there, but I don't think it's going to
be anything drastic. What I think they want is the flexibility,
as you said, to make a move later. And at
(08:35):
this point, you know, the draft is gone, free agency,
the first wave is come and went, so it's not
impossible for another big name to hit the market this
off season. But I think it's a lot less likely
than it was, you know, a month or two ago.
So I think by and large the plan is get
to the season as is, to see how it goes,
and then if you get to December, you get to
(08:56):
January and things aren't progressing as you would like, then
they do have the option to pursue some of those
bigger moves later.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
All right, Ben, let me get some closure on this
Jalen Green thing. I contend, and maybe I'm wrong that
had it been reversed against Golden State. Let's say he
played six good games and as one you know, crap
out right where a year in age down his leg
doesn't play well. Would they have would this move have
been made? When did they decide that it was time
to move on from Jalen Green.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I don't think it was just because of the playoffs,
but it certainly it certainly didn't help the way I
looked at this. So if you can get Kevin Durant
at a low price point, which they did, really the
only young assets they gave up were the number ten
pick in the draft and Jalen Green, Right, that's pretty
(09:44):
low from an assets standpoint, and he was an All
Star last year and he's still you know, his game
should age well. I should have two or three great
years still left, and so especially with Jalen now on
a more expensive contract which they signed him to prior
to last season. The only way that I think in
the long run you'd be, you know, regretting trading Jalen
(10:07):
Green is if he turned into like a legit all
NBA guy, like top ten, top fifteen. And I think
we've seen enough now after four years, and you have
got to see what happens in the playoffs, it's fair
to say that's unlikely. Like I don't think you should
conclude that Jalen Green is a terrible basketball player or
anything like that. No, that's way too reactionary. But I
will say that they've given him enough of a runway
(10:30):
to where we can safely say he's probably not going
to be a legit star. And if he's not a star,
at the money he's making, and with so many of
these young guys do for new deals in the coming years,
you know one other factor behind them being so aggressive
this offseason. They really believe in Amn Thompson and a
men Thompson has got two more years on his rookie
(10:52):
scale deal. So Sean is kind of like in football
when you have a star quarterback on that first contract
and you really want to load up while he's cheap.
That's the window for the Rockets right now. With the
men Thompson, they think they have a star level player
who has two more years very cheap. So if Jalen's
not going to be worth his contract in that window
and you can get a Kevin Durant, I think they
(11:13):
had to do it. And you know, that's no disrespect
to Jalen I think he can still be a good
player in the NBA, but the odds of him being
a star, I think at this point those have dropped significantly.
And if he's not going to be a star, I
don't think you're going to regret moving on from him,
especially if he's really the only piece that goes out
for Kevin, Friehan and Ben.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
That's such a great point because well c J. Stroud
is what you're talking about about. A men Thompson right now.
You know a rookie salary who's going to make sixty
million bucks a year when it happens to get it
while the getting's good. In truth and Dan and Ben
both even if Jalen Green turned out to be that guy,
you know Ben that he's a top fifteen player. If
the Rockets win a World Series under this window with
Kevin Durant, it won't matter what he does, it will
(11:54):
have been worth it. At least that's the way I feel.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Because the rings they win a World seriod, that would
be pretty.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Did I say World Series I met a World champion?
Yeah that too, they do, that'll be double. But if
they do, I knew where you're going on. I was
gonna let you go. Hell and if then, if the
Astros win an NBA championship, they'll be great to tell
it'll be it'll be worth it no matter what he does,
if they put a ring on their finger. Ben, that's
just the bottom line. It'll be worth it.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Absolutely Yep. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
You can find them part of the logger Line podcast.
Listen to it right here on the iHeartRadio app and
also to part of the USA Today with the Rockets Wire.
He's been to Bo's. Ben, appreciate your time this morning. No,
it's been pretty busy, but appreciate you spending a few
minutes with us.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Great stuff, Ben, Thanks man, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Guys,
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