Emergency show: Kevin Durant joins the Rockets!

Featuring hosts Ben DuBose and Paulo Alves, Sunday’s show features immediate reaction to the blockbuster NBA trade sending All-Star forward Kevin Durant from the Phoenix Suns to the Rockets!

Topics include why the outgoing compensation (Jalen Green, Dillon Brooks, and the No. 10 overall draft pick in 2025) is reasonable for Houston; what Durant choosing the Rockets says about the franchise; and how the remainder of the offseason could go as Houston gears up for a 2025-26 season with championship aspirations.

Episode Transcript

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Welcome aboard, Welcome into a special, breaking news episode of
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USA Today's Rockets Fire, a contributor to Sports Talk seven

(00:50):
diety official flagship redozation of your Houston Rockets. We're chatting
midday Sunday, June twenty second. It's a big d on
the NBA calendar because Game seven of the Idols is tonight.
But the bigger news is actually off the floor, especially
if you're a fan of the Rocket, because Percy of
ESPN Sean Sherania, who to no surprise, broke the story.
We now know Kevin Durant Houston Rocket. What a deal.

(01:12):
Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks, the number ten pick in Wednesday's
first round and five second round picks going to Phoenix.
It works under the cap, the Rockets will have to
wait until July sixth to finalize the deal because it
takes waiting for Jalen's higher salary, which we'll start with
next year, next fiscal year, which begins on July first.

(01:33):
So there will be a bit of awkwardness on Wednesday
with the number ten pick putting on a Rocket's hat
before eventually being traded to the Suns. But everyone knows
what's going on, and ultimately the end result will be
Kevin Durant playing for the Houston Rockets next season and
most likely beyond, because even though next year is the
final year of his contract, we know he wanted to
go to Houston, so it is very likely that he
will be signing an extension in the near future for

(01:55):
two additional years. So the trade just broke less than
an hour ago. So I'll say off the top, everything
that we're saying today is just immediate heat of the
moment reaction. As far as more nuanced analysis how the
deal came to be. I'm sure there'll be post mortems
in the days ahead, and we'll have Leny to discuss

(02:16):
as the week progresses and we learn what else the
Rockets might do. Because honestly, there's still a possibility that
more moves could be made in conjunction with this. Do
they potentially want to backfill the Jalen Green or Dylan
Brooks spot with someone else they can acquire via trade
or free agency. Lots of possibilities, and so this pod
will just be initial reaction. As far as team building

(02:40):
and all the other possibilities, we'll talk about that as
the week progresses, getting ready for June thirtieth, which is
when free agency negotiations can happen all around the league.
Rockets also have Fred Vliet's contract to sort out, which
I think Joe that shouldn't take very much longer since
there's financial clarity in terms of who's going out, KD
coming in. Lots of things that in the days ahead

(03:02):
we can discuss, not the draft. There's a reason why
we did not have a draft theme pod, and I
think you all see that today. This is just going
to be immediate reaction. Kevin Durant, Houston Rocket, and I've
got Paalo Awl's, my usual co host and producer back
with me today. There's a lot of angles we can
explore with this move, but the one I'm gonna mention

(03:23):
off the top. You just brought in probably the second
greatest player in franchise history. And before anyone points out
that he's thirty six, he averaged more than twenty six points,
five rebounds forces per game last season while shooting fifty
three percent overall and forty three percent from three. He
is still elite. He is still an All Star. He's
right up there with Hakeem as far as the greatest

(03:44):
players to ever put on this jersey. Sports are supposed
to be fun, Pollo, this is going to be really fun.
I'm not going to act like there are no risk Obviously,
he's at a point in his career where sometimes the
aging curve can hit suddenly. He has had a few
minor injuries over the years, so there's certainly a few

(04:05):
risks that come with this. But at the end of
the day, especially when they didn't really give up any
core assets, I see this as a really fun day
to be a fan. I'm embracing it, and overall I
couldn't be happier. Paolo, were your initial thoughts.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Man, like, are we ready to sai out?

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Well?

Speaker 3 (04:24):
But that kbs a Houston rocket, Like that's never gonna sound.
We were close before, right, we were close before it
didn't happen. I mean, it's I think the first thing
you I think the first takeaway is that my rule.
And then we talked about this during the season. My
rule for a potential trade for an inking star was
that you cannot give up the core assets. And we

(04:47):
didn't give up the ar right. True, we don't know
yet how how and if we were, we'll be able
to extend them Arrey. We didn't give up the war,
which to me was it was a key feature. We
didn't give up any of the features some space. We
did give up one good asset, which us ten. In
terms of conveniency, I guess or convenience. It was always
hard for us to drop the ten and give that
player minutes without making Consolida Centrade elsewhere. So, yes, you

(05:11):
can fall in love. And I liked some guys. I liked,
said to the cowor like, I was ready to come
on here and talk about him. I like Arter Bryant obviously,
obviously it's one of the main top top ten guys,
our top seven guys fell. You know, Mahuak would have
been interesting, Knoople or Niple would have been interesting. I
personally liked Germanic Fears, but it was always someone that

(05:33):
like Reach came wait More early on, would not get
out of playing time. So obviously you know pick ten
has value, obviously, but it's kind of useful to use
that value in the trade for an eighteen star rather
than future value because you have an ugency to do
something with pick ten right now. So I never really
minded too much giving up that. Then you obviously have
to give up something if you're gonna get Kad. So

(05:55):
we kept the future picks, which is the most important part.
They kept Bary, we kept Tari, which to me are
more in portant because, as we've talked about before, they'll
be better or they'll be good with any team construction
that we have going into the future, we can never
have enough lengthy three and D guys that can defend
multiple positions. We did give up Jalen, and we did
give up the one Brooks right, But to me, those

(06:16):
guys are giving up this The amount of the value
that we gave up is we can afford ourselves to
the luxury of spending that those types of assets on
a way to win now. Because as we talked about before,
when this team was a first round that you know
almost as I almost got the second un this year,
and those reps in that experience is valuable. If we

(06:38):
went into next year and didn't make many upgrades and
we went and we got out in the first round, again,
you don't want to kind of Obviously, development is not
always linear, but you don't want to be stuck in
the same position for too many years because the perception
of progression is something that you know naturally feels everybody.
So it always made sense to make a move like this.

(06:59):
Now let's talk about what it costs, right, cost Chill
and gree Obviously that's stuff. I mean, my I have
two rocket Steerergy's. One of them is the man Bumpton
and they'll know the other one is Killeen Green. Right,
there's no hiding that I know. Killen Green was the
guy that was sold to us throughout the years as Okay,
this is our new franchise guy. This guy's going to

(07:20):
be incredible. We're gonna have incredible moments with him, and
we had some, but it was always a question of
ups and downs with him, and it will stink if
we see him being successful on another team, because we'll
always feel like, oh, we could have had them ourselves
and with them away. But at some point you're going
to make the decisions. And this team has a lot
of upside still and listen, if we want to be,

(07:44):
you know, kind of realistic about it. Killen has had
a lot of a lot of time to make to
make more of his career here, and I guess the
last series he played here. Just watched the hour place
in everybody's mouths And as far as the rest of
the sour filler giving up Dyalen Brooks, I know you
know I'll pass it back to you, and I know
we'll get into the implications of this on the court
and what the rebations could look like and other moves

(08:06):
that we could make. But when you trade for KD
and you keep Tarry and Jabari, now you have three,
you know high minutes forwards depth are going to take
up mostly of all of your minutes at the three
and the four, which means that Dylan Brooks is more
than likely going to have to be playing a lout
of two. And for being honest with ourselves, across to
us two seasons. Dylan Brooks's defense and it comes to

(08:27):
guarding the perimeter and guarding guards has actually been getting
worse than declining over the over time. We've d of
sometimes even put him on forwards and you know, both
Giarry guys because he's strong and he could deal with them.
But you're kind of selling high on dil. I think
it's very unlikely that Devean has another season shooting year
forty percent from three, And I don't think his defense
is going.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
To get better.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
I think he's thirty years old. He's not gonna get
it's not going to get better, and we will be
moving him into a position that kind of exacerbates his
weaknesses or what are going to be his weaknesses as
we move forward. So you know, Billan's obviously useful player,
was a big part of our spacing here, but I
don't mind moving him too much, and you know, because
we would have to play guarding guards more often. And

(09:13):
when it's again the consideration that that's perhaps what unlocked
our ability to keep Kibari, I think that's that's a
no brainer. And you know, it's very early in the
off season, so who knows we still have choc pland
that we still have iron holiday. I'm not sure if
we're required to waive them more to the client their
options to make this still happen. I don't think we are.
So you still have, you know, way a ballance of

(09:33):
what twelve to fifteen million dollars that you could use
the trade for someone that is a little bit cheaper
and maybe it's more of a shooting guard type if
you want to have that option off your bench. So
all in all, it's just I mean, I think massive
props raffles don't. OKAYD is still an insanely good player.
We didn't give up anything that we're going to be

(09:54):
kicking ourselves over in the next few years unless Kelen
turns out to be the start that he could be.
But you gotta keeve up offering to get something right.
And it's just it's incredible and I and without going
into another raffel Stone kind of rent here, if we
should listen to reports they started off by asking the

(10:15):
same or package similar to what they paid for KD.
Initially We're never going to get out, but that was
the initial ask. You know, the equivalent would have been,
you know, reach effort came with Montevarius, Smith, Sell and
Green and their picks back and Raphael made his offers
stuck to his guns, read the market perfectly and saw, hey,
nobody's going to offer more than we are, and so

(10:36):
I'm not gonna up my offer. I'm not going to
negotiate against myself. My offer stays the same. I imagine that
the offer increased maybe via those second round picks, right
because I doubt he offered first the fact second picks
in the beginning, but he always offered the assets that
are pretty inconsequential. They have value. But when we were
talking about a deal to this massive are pretty inconsequential,

(10:56):
and he stuck to his guns and he got KD
at a price that everybody is going to say was
a steal. Right now, moving forward, you know, we can
talk about Tree, it's can talk about the rotation, but
just got to pray that Katie stays healthy and that
he can be our you know, tip of the spear
that we hoped Kelen Green could have been to the
playoffs next season.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, and one thing I'll say about Jalen is that
he had four years here and we know what he
did late in his third year. And I'm not going
to say that he regressed in your four That would
be way too reactionary based on the playoffs, but he
didn't take the clear step forward that a lot of
us had hoped last offseason. You know, we thought he
had all put it together in that run he had

(11:39):
in March of twenty twenty four. And it wasn't like
he suddenly became you know who he was before that,
but it wasn't the sustained leap that you would want
to see. He had every opportunity, including in the playoffs,
to be the tip of the sphere of scorer for
a guy for a team excuse me, who had an
elite defense and just needed a mediate ocre offense, and

(12:01):
he couldn't get it done. And while it would still
be premature to say that his career arc has been written,
at the same time, he's had more of a runway
than anyone else. So I can understand the rockets. Not
that you would want to get rid of him under
all circumstances, but look, you've got to give up something
of value to bring in Kevin Durant and Jalen's had

(12:23):
the most opportunities, and to this point, I'm not going
to say he's failed, but he hasn't taken advantage of
them to the extent that I think the Rockets had hoped,
and so when it comes to who's going to be
in the deal, I think that's a big part of
their thinking as far as how it came to be.
So I had written before in Rockets were the two

(12:45):
primary financial pathways were Jalen picked ten and Landale and
Holiday the Expirings or Dylan Jabbari picked ten and then
the Expirings. I think what ended up happening is that
the Jalen path and perhaps the Suns wanted Jalen because
I do think that Jalen, even if he's less likely

(13:06):
to hit it, he does have a higher ceiling than Jabari.
So I could see the Suns in their situation perhaps
wanting to air on the side of upside. What I
think may have happened is that, you know, the Suns
initially wanted both Jalen and Jabari and these talks, and
they wanted to get not just their twenty twenty five pick,
but one of twenty seven and twenty nine, and the

(13:28):
Rockets ended up meeting in the middle and including Dylan
instead of Landale and Holiday, and the five second round
picks instead of another. First that's not a major compromise
because second round picks, and one of them is the
number fifty nine mister irrelevant pick in this year's draft.
They're not very significant, but at least it's something, and

(13:49):
I don't think the Suns wanted to quote unquote lose
these negotiations. Look, the point in which I really thought
this was going to get to the finish line, I
had a conversation with someone inside the building last week
who told me that he believed that if they got
Kevin Durant on their terms, that they could win a
title next season. And can and will are two very

(14:11):
different things, so let's not get carried away here. But
if you think your championship window is potentially opening, and
as I've said for a month now, as long as
these negotiations have been in progress, the reason the Rockets
were intrigued by a KD pursuit as opposed to going
after someone even bigger like Giannis is if they viewed
Kadi as acquireable at such a price that they're contending,

(14:33):
window would open sooner, but it wouldn't shut any faster.
And I think ultimately that's where they are with this deal.
You can contend as soon as next season. Well, if
the thunder might win Game seven tonight or maybe they don't,
But regardless, I think the thunder in the playoffs have
shown more cracks than a lot of us expected. This
is going to be the seventh straight year with a

(14:55):
different NBA champion. There is parity. And so when you
take the Foundation, a team that was fifty two and
thirty number two in the West, very young, so they're
going to organically improve just with another year under their belts,
another offseason to get better. And then you add in
Kevin Durant in place of Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks,

(15:15):
it's not infathomable that this team could actually contend next year.
And so when that was said to me, that Durant
could actually make this team contend, that's their view. As
soon as next season, I expected this to get done
because if you truly believe that, and it's been over
thirty years now since the Houston Rockets have won an

(15:36):
NBA championship, you can't let someone like Dylan Brooks stand
in your way, especially because as the team is currently constructed. Paolo,
you made the point, and I think you're right in
saying that this was probably a career shooting year for
Jalen or for Dylan. Excuse me, he hit almost forty
percent from three point range. That's probably going to come
down a little bit. But also just the way the

(15:57):
team is built, Dylan's a four with good defense. Even
Fitz declined a little bit, He's still a very good defender. Well,
your two highest usage reserves are Tari Eason and Javari Smith,
both really good forward defenders. So in terms of backfilling
the minutes, the fact that not only is Dylan a

(16:17):
good player but clearly upside limited at twenty nine years old,
but your two most frequently used reserves play a very
similar role and can easily step into many of those minutes.
So Dylan was replaceable. As you mentioned, Paolo, you also
preserve the optionality with still having Landale and Holiday and

(16:39):
those team options on the books to potentially pursue other
trade up grades as the off season progresses. I just
think at the end of the day, I would be
surprised if Jalen and Dylan were both in the deal
from the outset, but I think Dylan's an acceptable sacrifice,
especially because we've seen rafel Stone out his rotation very efficiently.

(17:02):
Look at the discount rate that they got Steven Adams
on via trade, giving up basically just two second round
picks by making the deal at the right time, and
look how important he is to the formula. Right now,
they can replace Dylan Brooks. Maybe not fully, but you
might can get eighty percent of the production for fifty

(17:23):
percent of the cost something like that. And I know
Dylan was getting paid a little over twenty million dollars
a year, but they had to overpay at that time
because the Rockets signed Dylan. It's the same reason why
they overpaid Fred, because they were coming off three years
in last place. Now they are a better team. I
just think, be it internally with more minutes for Tari

(17:43):
and Georg Jabari, or externally if they look to sign
a discounted name and free agency, if they look to
make a trade, you can get a lot of what
Dylan gives you for a reasonable asset cost, probably a
lower financial cost. And so for those reasons, again, I
don't think the Rockets totally held firm. I think there

(18:06):
was probably some negotiating, but I just think once they
made it clear that they believed Kevin Durant could take
them to that next level, you can't let Dylan Brooks,
all respect to him, but he's an upside limited player.
You can't let that stand in your way when we're
talking about Kevin freaking Durant, who's averaged twenty seven points

(18:29):
per game in the last two years on a leade efficiency.
By the way, let's talk about the injuries. Two years ago,
he played seventy five to eighty two games. Last year
he played sixty two, and really he was playing almost
all of them and just had to freak injury late
in the year when the Suns were sort of playing
out the string and in tank mode anyway, So knock on wood.
His durability the last couple of years has actually been
an asset. Hopefully that continues in Houston. But regardless, this

(18:53):
is a playoff deal. As long as you can make
sure he's ready to go come late April, your chances
are much better now than they were before this trade.
And you already had a team that was fifty two
and thirty number two in the West and getting better.
So I find it it hard to argue in terms
of what the Rockets gave up in this deal. It
wasn't any of their premium assets. I know some have said, well,

(19:16):
what if Yanni's or someone like that comes available later. Okay, well,
you didn't really give up any of your premium assets
in this deal. I guess Jalen Green could still turn
into one, but that's a bonus. You certainly don't expect
it coming off of last season and especially the way
the playoffs went, so I don't think it really harms

(19:38):
your future optionality at all. That goes back into what
I was told about a KD trade opening your windows sooner,
but not shutting it any faster. So if you're honest
or someone else comes available later on, yeah, you can
still be a player for him. This doesn't do anything
to short circuit your window your optionality moving forward. All well,

(20:00):
this does is open your title window a little sooner.
So I find it hard to argue with I think,
you know, there's certainly some ways that they'll miss Jalen
and Dylan, but you've got to give up something. The
way I think the Rockets looked at this deal, tier
one assets were off the table because Kevin's thirty six.
He's going to turn thirty seven in September, so a

(20:22):
men and Shingoon and the twenty seven and twenty nine
Phoenix picks, those just weren't realistic. I think tier two
assets that'd be for different reasons. Jalen Jubbari Tari read.
I think the Rockets knew they'd have to give up
someone with upside otherwise it just wouldn't be worth it

(20:43):
to Phoenix, and Jalen probably made the most sense because
he might have the most upside to the Suns, yet
his role in Houston is one that's largely being replaced
by Kevin Durant as the primary scorer, the a one,
the half court option, laid in close games, So it

(21:04):
made sense I think for both the Suns and the
Rockets to settle on Jalen being the guy of that
tier two grouping. I think there might have been a
world where it was Jabbari, but ultimately, the more I
think about it, Jalen had to go. I think for
both sides. I think there's more upside for Phoenix. I

(21:25):
think for Houston there's more role clarity moving forward. And
Pawlo would I keep coming back to, it's Kevin freaking durantman, Like,
how fun is this going to be? I know that's
not even a real question, but if you're on the
fence even a little bit. Again, I just don't see
anything that's crippled into long term and the short term.

(21:46):
You're a better team and you add one of the
fifteen greatest players in NBA history. How can you not
like this move? Right?

Speaker 3 (21:53):
I mean, just personally speaking, Gabe's one of my favorite
players of all time. Like I get densiet narratives about
how we won and go state just so let's forget
all of the narrative based stuff and just that's what
the guy played. He's a seven a foot jump shooter
who can move as well as anybody that size. He
you know, he's just he's the he could build a

(22:14):
player in an album. He would be that player.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Listen.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
The only question here is if he stays healthy, and
I think at this point it's hard.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's hard.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
It would be hard to project him to lose mobility
because if that were to happen, I think that would
have happened already. So I don't think his play is
going to the client as much as and a certain
point his body might you know, not keep up and
then he will have himTo it. So I don't think
he'll be I think it will be more of a
maybe he pulled George type of situation rather than a
came hard type of situation, where with James you can

(22:43):
clearly tell he just can't move as well anymore. With
Paul Georgy can still move, but it's just always hurt.
So I think we'll when when Katie is playing, I
think we'll get you know, that level of Katie, the
level everybody knows and the level that would have gotten
us probably to the Western Conference finals this postseason if
we had him instead of Jail And because there's other
things that we do that just leave you sealivating here,

(23:05):
which is, well, the spacing is fixed, you're going to
have to respect Kevin Brant on the perimeter, and now
you can play this. And just talking about the lineups here,
and I'm not sure what the starting lineup will be, but.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, as currently constructed, I'm thinking it's Fred Amen kd
Tari or Jabbari and Shingoon. That's as they're constructed now.
Now maybe there's some other deal they can make for
more of a scoring presence, although they don't necessarily need it.
We know they want to play Reed Shepherd and Cam
whitmore anyway, and those are two guys that have offensive

(23:40):
upgrade that they want to lean into more as is,
they don't necessarily have to make a trade for someone
more backcourt oriented. You could just start Jabbari and make
him a complimentary piece around KD and men in Shangoon.
But I think that's your starting lineup as things currently stand.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, I think listen and it kind of leans, it
kind of leans into the It's not necessarily double all big,
it's kind of triple big as as well, like you.
So basically, I think the most likely thing, and I
think the thing that's basically set in stone is that
the man moves to do two here, which playing a
man as a guard brings us brings us back to

(24:20):
that lineup we had when Fred was not healthy and
we had a man, you know, playing points. We want
a man to be beyond ball defender. Basically every time
that is on the floor. When we have a man
on the as the as the on ball defender, what
we don't have is a man on the weak side
grabbing rebounds. And when we had Dylan Brooks and Jewn
Green and fre then we're all in the same lineup.

(24:40):
We just had to those guys were were often trying
to rebound over guys that are there are a lot
you know, a lot bigger than them. That goes away
because now we move the man back to one of
the guard spots and we have all of the side
to grab those rebounds, and we can still play that
same level of defense because KD is lengthy, you know
he can he can do a lot of the same job.
And to me, you fix the spacing as well. We're

(25:03):
not gonna have a world in which Seng Hun can
be triple team and double team and be basically and
it go unpunished, and we won't have to be as
reliant on grabbing two and three offensive rebounds in order
to make up for our lack of shooting and or
like of spacing. And you know that's systemically right. That
gets fixed and then on specific matchups and in the

(25:25):
playoff series, you also get the added bonus that you
now have a guy on the prim that that can
go out and get a job for himself. And we've
talked about before how it's a lot harder than in
the postseason to feed the post and how that can
get denied and how you can burn velole likeconds off
the clock in a late games that cons situation for
a buzzer reader. No, now you have a guy that
can take.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Care of all that.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
And then the other thing that to me is really
enticing is and you know, obviously the value of this
is relative, but I do think that the body has
a lot to learn and will learn a lot from
Kad if we if we keep both by the by
the end of the by the end of the off season,
Javari is already talking about how he wants a little
bit more ball handling duties, he wants to be a

(26:05):
little bit more of a scorer, and heyd is basically
who you idealized Jabuari to be. And now, obviously Javari
is never going to be a I KD. But if
Javari has just a little bit of a face up game,
that just goes such a long way for this team
because even literally be here now, well he's one guy
on the primitive you'll still need, you know, some secondary

(26:27):
creators beyond him and Shingon. And I think Javari is
someone who should be able to catch out anytime. You know,
if you double if you deny that post on changing
and I think that and I think it comes at
the perfect timing as well, because well, you get to
extend this off season, worst case scenario, you get to
extend the next off season. Right, even if he does
make that jump, or if he is going to make

(26:47):
that jump, that's going to take some time, and so
you're probably going to pay him before he takes that jump,
which is another added bonus which you'll probably get a
guy that's going to be better than what you pay
him to be when you agree to the extension. Now,
we don't obviously don't know how howing extension talks are going,
but to me, having those guys together in the gilm
every single day, because one thing's working out in the

(27:07):
auities and and that sort of stuff, the other is
being in the same gym every single day. And then
you you know, picking up getting to see Katie work.
By all accounts, is one of the harvest workers in
the league. You know, even when he's requested trades, you know,
he's always requested trades two teams that made some sense, right,
He's always had that basketball mentality, and I think he's

(27:28):
one of those guys just you know, lives and breeds basketball,
and so I'm just incredibly excited for what that means
for the a party and excited for that, what is
for the rebound. I think it's a perfect fit. And
then once again, yes Katie is on the old side
right and or his straight up all but you didn't
give you gave up assets that as you said. I
think the way you put it was really beautiful, which

(27:48):
is you opened your contending window earlier, but you didn't
make it shirt any sooner than it had to, because
you still have the assets to go out and make
a competitive offer for someone like he is if if
he comes up or Booker in the year when when
he inevitably asked out of Phoenix, so you kept all
your options open, you can still make you know, we

(28:09):
still have a little bit of a salary left over
that you can go and make another you know, kind
of roster composition move right, if you probably need the
shooting guard you I mean, I'll throw out her name.
I think doing for a game like Tonty DiVincenzo would
be perfect just because of the time, the type of
money that is making, the type of shooting and the
type of player that he is. I think that and
I think he might be gettable for for the decently

(28:29):
keep price. So She's just one example in the Utah
Jazz obviously have a ton of of you know, good
role player type player that she's going to go after. Yeah,
I don't think the Rockets are done quite yet. And
I don't really mind not picking this draft. And there
were some gems there, but nobody that I'm just stuck thinking, Hey,
I wish we got that guy. I think ad is

(28:50):
going to help develop this team. It's going to help
this team make be better right now. And if he
didn't cost an arm in a LA and damn, it's
just going to be so so goddamn exciting to aim
in the Rocket Steers, even though you look at the
edit's online and it kind of feels like it was
meant to be, Like it's just obviously he could have
come here earlier he decided not to. But he's finally

(29:11):
here then, and you know, just I think, what a day, right,
you get you get the KD Troy, you get the
finals here, you know in a few hours. Just an
incredible basketball day and a perfect time for us to
bring the ball back as well.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, absolutely thrill to have the two man pod back
and boy, amazing timing on the Sunday June twenty second.
I should have mentioned we're talking about the tiers. Yeah,
the number ten pick counts as a Tier two asset
as well. So if you're not giving up, even at
thirty six years old, Kevin Durant is still Kevin Durant,
You're probably not gonna get it down with just one

(29:46):
Tier two assets. So it's jail and the number ten pick.
So let's not act like it's nothing. But this is
a situation where the Rockets had a surplus. I talked
about surplus in terms of, you know, defense at the
forward spots being one reason you could lose Dylan Brooks
just slide up Jabari Smith or CHARRYE. Eason. But just
from a team building perspective, look, you have these seven

(30:08):
first run picks from the last four draft cycles. You're
set up well into the future. You still have the
twenty seven to twenty nine Phoenix pick, you got the
twenty seven Brooklyn swap, You've got the twenty nine Dallas pick,
so you've got a ton of young players as is.
You've got future actionality with picks, be it for trades
or for just filling out your roster with cheap role players.

(30:31):
As it gets more expensive. So yeah, you could do
a two for one type deal and still be more
than okay in the long run in terms of the
amount of guys. That's why it matters having the young
core that the Rockets have and the totality of it,
because it allows you to deal from you physician of
strength and that you can do a deal like this,

(30:52):
And even if Kevin Age is faster than we would like,
it still shouldn't be a major concern for the Rockets
in the long it wouldn't be a major hit. Now.
I would be a letdown, sure if Kevin isn't what
we think and hope he will be. But I don't
think it's I don't think it's anything crippling. And the
more I think about this and Powlow, I'm curious short perspective,

(31:12):
I would actually be intrigued to just stay the course
and preserve the optionality to do a bigger deal at
the trade deadline, because we can talk about Landale and
Aaron Holliday and these expirings and the things you might
can do in the next week. But I don't know
that anyone you could get would have more upside than

(31:35):
Read Shepherd or Cam whitmore So, the more I think
about it, Paolo, and this is just live, real time,
unfiltered reaction, I'm sort of inclined to stay the course,
pick up those team options if you can, so that
you have the expirings, and then if you learn midway
through the year that Reading Cam Want or both still

(31:57):
aren't ready, then you have those expiring salaries that you
can easily trade at the deadline to get you that
additional oop on offense that you might need, or maybe
you need one more defender to help replace Dylan, because
obviously Reading Cam neither is known for what they do
on the defensive side of the ball. But when I
look at how this team is constructed, the more I

(32:18):
think about it, I would be inclined to stay the course.
Give Reading Cam an opportunity early in the year, and
then if it's not working out, make sure you have
a few expiring salaries that you can use at the
trade deadline. To me, that almost makes more sense than
going out and getting another rotation player now that would

(32:38):
block read or Cam for minutes. Does that make sense to.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
You, Yeah, that makes lot of sense. You know, obviously
we're talking about this, you know, off the GOFFICI, the
deal just happened, But yeah, I'm with you. I guess
I guess it would depend on what type of value
you can get, right if there's if you know, because
obviously you know off season there's going to be a
lot of blockbusters or deals. I would guess sometimes when
those deals happened, stuff gets used as stalary filler that

(33:02):
you know they shouldn't be salary filler, but it's what team.
It's kind of like the little Brooks, like Dylan Brooks
kind of fused the stallary filler, but he would be
worth something by himself in a subsequently right, a specuation
like that could happen where you know, what's imagine, you know, Femi,
the Dunde divisions scenario that I presented. You know, let's

(33:22):
say they're trading you know, Gobert and him or or
randoled him for a for a bigger player. He can
be thrown in as more of a fielder player because
they don't want to give up the McDaniels that don't
know if it's Skadden or Kalen whatever which one is
with on the Wolves, and they throw in divind handsl
and then the third team kind of doesn't really need them,
and so they move him for a cheaper price just

(33:44):
to get done with it sooner. You know, if something
like that pops up, yes, but if not, I'm with you.
You could run it with with Reachepherd playing and can
with more playing, because that's one thing that trading away
Jailen and and Dylan does for you is that well
Jones playing thirty minutes a night and d one as well,
at at the very least. And so you're trigging sixty

(34:05):
minutes for you know, just round number sixty minutes or
thirty minutes or thirty five minutes of the rent. They're
opening up twenty five minutes of rotation time. Going to
give some of that to Jabari, but you know, obviously
when you give, you're going to have those minutes that
have to be filled. And you know, I think we're
at a point where we've proven that we can make
the playoffs comfortably, especially with the Katie three Iman knocking.
Would hopefully nothing nothing bad happens that you can you know,

(34:29):
afford to, you know, play around a little bit, see
how it works, and then at the deadline or even
before a little bit, if you see that, you know
you can pull through the on on a move then
could cost two more assets wise if in a desperate
in a more desperate situation. But I think that's the
risk can be willing to take to make sure and
to give real chances to reach Out or that can
win more. Because when you look at reach Out games

(34:50):
last season, well his best games for the game where
he started right, and I think that says a lot.
I mean, he's maybe he's the type of way that
needs a little system, playing time or a bigger rule
to get him the fact committed and in rhythm. And
if that's the case, you know, this opens up a
space for him, and we cannot forget that. We don't
know what the terms of the threading with extension are
going to be, but the will always be that either

(35:11):
a Mentmson nor reachap or eventually take over that point
cup role and you know even maybe even both take
over the backgards and t we're playing on having a
man there at this point as a shooting guard, and
so you don't want to let that go. But I
do have a linkling. I mean it's not information or anything,
but by the way ken Wickmore was being talked about,
you know, earlier in the off season that perhaps there

(35:32):
might be a situation there where he doesn't really want
to stay another year. And you know, I don't know
how that will sort itself out, but it could be
a good thing or a bath thing. It could be
that he wants to get out and get a better
term elsewhere, or it could be that we just opened
up him minutes. You're going to have their champs. Now
you better step up to it. So, yeah, I don't
think that's definitely not in a rush to make something
happen right now. And I do agree with you, you know,

(35:54):
now that you put it that way, I would probably
rather you know simply what we have and hold for
for a you know, in the future, because I mean,
even though Kevin durunt is, you know, a forward, right
the role he plays is one of a scoring gun.
And we have so many positionless players that we know
we can afford to have maybe play one position on
defense on defense and play a different position on offense.

(36:17):
All of that to say that, yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
In the last angle I want to go into. So
from a basketball standpoint, this makes all the sense in
the world. And actually I'll follow up real quickly on
the trade angle. So just from a value perspective, I
think guys like Landale on Holiday, if you pick up
the options, they'll probably be even more lucrative. At the deadline.

(36:44):
There'll be more useful chips than they are in the
off season because the deadline, the Rockets will have already
paid at least half, if not more, of their salaries.
So that expiring filler that they are or anyone else
I being conceivable, you could trade for an expiring contract
and then you have the optionality to move back again.
It doesn't have to be Landale in the holiday. It's

(37:05):
just picking up those options as the easiest way to
have it internally. But the point is at the deadline
it's closer to cash savings because you've already paid off
over half of those contracts. As opposed to this offseason,
a team acquiring them would have to pick up the
options and have them on the hook for the entire
season at their eight million dollars salary in the case

(37:27):
of Landale and about five million in the case of Holiday.
So beyond giving your young guys more an opportunity early
in the year, and if they don't take advantage of it, well,
you still have time to make a deal with the
deadline and integrate whoever you get by the time things
get really real in April and May. But also it's
just more lucrative to other teams, and that those salaries.

(37:49):
Nobody's no disrespect intended towards shock Landale and their holiday,
but nobody's really acquiring them for basketball reasons. It's a
financial transaction and so just a little thing. But the
financial savings angle of it is even more so when
those contracts have been half or more paid off already,
and so it's closer to them actually becoming free agents,

(38:09):
and money that truly does roll off the other team's books,
the other team that in this case is hypothetically trading
a veteran too. You anyway, the final segment that I
wanted to get to, So basketball wise, this checks every box.
The Rockets needed an a one. They needed someone to
get them to the finish line. We've talked about it
for months, even years now. They've got that guy and

(38:32):
Kevin Durant at least in the near future. They didn't
cripple their long term optionality in this move, and so
I find it hard to review this trade anything but positively.
But the other angle that I wanted to explore before
we wrap up. So Kevin Durant's first interview, he was
actually on stage at a Fanatics best in New York

(38:54):
when the trade broke and there were a few hundred
fans in close proximity, so it was a bit of
a scene. He smiled, acted a little bit shocked. Of course,
he had some inkling that it was coming. I don't
think he necessarily knew that it would leak when he
was on stage, but Shoum's is the man. He's not
going to wait for you to get off stage. And
then shortly after that he actually did an interview and

(39:17):
the interviewer asked why Houston, And technically, I think he's
not supposed to talk about it because he's still under
contract with Phoenix. The trade won't be processed until July sixth, because,
as mentioned off the top, the Rockets got to wait
until Jalen's on his higher salary. But come on, I
find it hard to believe the NBA's kind of disciplined
Kevin Durant over this. The deal is done, it is
what it is. And so the interview, the interviewer was

(39:40):
asking about how the deal came to be and her question,
did you have a hand in this? Kevin's response, most definitely.
They asked me where I wanted to go some of
my destinations I gave to them and here we are
why Houston they had a great season last year. Loved
that leadership. I felt like I'd be a good addition.
It's been well documented the relationships Kevin has with imy

(40:01):
Udoka and Royal Ivy. Rockets coaches Emay during the year
talked about Kevin being a great leader, that he was
the perfect example for young guys. I think everyone when
they saw e May giving that message. I think it
was February or March, one of the games where Phoenix
came to Houston. It was hard not to wonder about

(40:21):
the potential of this getting done in the offseason, because
not only does Kevin help me from a basketball perspective,
but he's the type of guy that can be a
good mentor a good example for the younger guys you're
trying to develop as well. And I think Kevin saying
that kind of stuff, and he'll certainly say more when
we get to July and the Rockets can officially introduce
him at a press conference. But this sort of cements

(40:45):
that the Rockets are a destination, and so it had
been reported the last couple of weeks that the Rockets
were on Katie's list. But to see one of the
greatest players in NBA history want to go to Houston
choose the Rockets. Obviously we know the record they had
last season. Imo Udoka one of the best coaches in
the league. He just got a well deserved contract extension.

(41:07):
To me, it validates that the Rockets are going forward
one of those franchises. It feels sort of like, you know,
if you look to the last ten to twenty years,
the Heat Warriors are two examples that it feels like
they're never out of it because they're always at least
in the conversation, we thought the Warriors might be finally
fading to the pack, and then back to the pack,

(41:29):
and now they get Jimmy Butler. The Heat were a
finalist for Kevin Durant. There's just certain franchises that are
always on the list, that are always desirable, and the
Rockets haven't always been there. There have been certainly stretches
in franchise history where they were and so these last
few years it's felt like we were building to a

(41:49):
point where the Rockets were going to be one of
those IT franchises again, and honestly they should be. I mean,
it's an obviously a very good team. Houston's one of
the bigger markets in the NBA. It's a city where
a lot of players live in in the off season. Anyway,
good weather, or at least good weather if you like
it warm, which a lot of NBA players do. Don't
think it's a coincidence that Katie's list was the Rockets,

(42:10):
the Spurs, and the Heat. But I just think seeing
KD leverage his way to Houston, beyond just what it
means for the basketball team next year, to me, it
also it sort of confirms what we had suspected for
a while, which is that the Rockets are set up
not just in the short term but in the long
run the way they have, the way they built the

(42:32):
last few years. You hear the term sustainable contender, It's
one I've set on this pot a ton. If you're
a long time listener, and I think we're here, the
window is open because KD is here. But I also
think the way KD chose the Rockets, the way he
leveraged his way here one of the best players in
NBA history. I think not only should it leave you

(42:55):
feeling good about the short term future of this franchise,
but also just you know the foundation guys like obviously
Imo Udoka as head coach, but for Felstone as GM,
Tilman Fertida as owner. The fact that one of the
best players in NBA history basically chose you with a
lot of options, to me, that just reinforces that both
on and off the court, this franchise is doing the

(43:17):
right things, and it just sort of secures, in my opinion,
a future where it feels like the Rockets are gonna
be a destination franchise for a while, right, Like, certainly
they should be based on the quality of basketball on
the floor, how good the team is. But then when
you see KD choose your franchise, for me, at least,
it just reinforces that, hey, the Rockets may be for
the next generation what the Heat and Warriors have been

(43:40):
for this past generation. And what I mean by that is,
you know, the Knicks and Lakers teams like that are
always going to be it franchises simply because it's New
York in LA. But there's there's teams. Outside of that
tier one that's strictly about market, there's a tier two
that's maybe not New York or LA, but pretty damn close.
Especially the team is winning, has good ownership, has leadership

(44:03):
up and down the organization from ownership to GM to
head coach. There's alignment. It feels like, you know, the
culture organizations of the past generation, the Heat, the Warriors,
the Spurs until the last seven or eight years. By
the way, how good does it feel that Kevin Durant
will not be going to San Antonio? You could potentially
throw the MAVs in there until the Nico Harrison Reign

(44:25):
of Terror. But to me, beyond just the basketball, it
just sort of signifies the Rockets are indeed being perceived
by the heavyweights around the NBA the way we would
like them as fans to be perceived. That's the takeaway
I have listening to Katie talk about the Rockets and
seeing him pretty much choose the Rockets. How are anything
else you wanted to add on that front or anything

(44:47):
else before we close up shop? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (44:49):
I think, I mean, I think it speaks volumes that
Katie wanted to come here. I think it speaks volumes
about how cobra A hireding Nejuluko was because we've been
having these conversations a lot because of being Mayo Dooka
lost because of how competent Raffles as we are on
rebuilding this franchise we were, and everybody that looks at
the last five years can tell, Okay, this team clearly
wanted to be bad for three years because they wanted

(45:10):
to get the talent. They got the talent, they got
a coach that's hard nose, they made it jump, they
made a second jump, and they retained a lot of
their upside and have a lot of guys. You know,
they play really good defense. And when when you're a
superstar like KD who you are main scorer first, and
you see, oh, I can go to this team and
you know, I'm basically I just have to do my
part to be forced to be an incredible defense Like

(45:30):
I don't need to be, you know, constantly consistently walking
up guys. I just need to be in my position
and be smart and grab my rebound and be on
the same and right places, and then I can just
do whatever I want offensively because I have open hing
goog who's gonna draw out of attention. Then I got
shooters around us, I mean, in all positions besides besides
a man. At this point, we don't know how it
will be next season. I think that's just the perfect

(45:52):
situation for the n in scorer to, you know, want
to get traded to. And then I see the way
I see it, and I mean, I guess this is
pro and overreaction to the trade. But the Rockets are
currently the second best thoughts to win the championship next
year on in Vegas, right in the in the odds,
like there's okay, see number one. The Rockets are number two,
slightly ahead of the Knicks, And I think that speaks

(46:12):
fort of self. I mean, and people overreact in Vegas
is not always a perfect reflection of you know, reality,
But people don't want to lose money when they're betting.
So that's because the public perception of this team is
what we're seeing, which is one of the best defenses
of the weekue absolutely smothering. They just replaced someone who
was an adecative from the court. I'm sorry, Galen, but
that's what it is. They just replace that with an

(46:34):
all time grade scorer that's going to play the same
role offensively, just be much much better at it. And
I think it's we've been able to hang with every
team in the league this season. Without that, it only
just got a massive upgrade. And it's basically, you know,
we didn't give up Dylan Brooks. I guess it's the
only thing that we give up that was a rotation
piece last year. But obviously that's replaced and more by

(46:55):
kad And it's just and I guess it's back to
superstar season in Houston because it's been a while. It's
been a while since we've had a guy like that,
and just I can't wait. And I can't wait too.
You know, as much as this may sound unfair, I
was so tired of doing draft work. I don't know
about you, but this listen, it's been too many years
in a row. It's been too many heartbreaks. I didn't
want another guy that was going to come in and

(47:16):
be a forty percent tutor in college and then come
in and be a thirty percent titter here And just
kind of happy that's gone as well. And I'm just
excited to see what what happened this season with kad Man.
Him wanting to come here definitely means something, and it
definitely goes to show that you do things right, and
the process the Rockets went through was doing things right.
If you sit patient and you're competent to where Rafflestone

(47:37):
has went, you can get your franchise to a good spot.
And this also goes to show that I mean, people
were saying, oh, anybody could have made the picks that
Raffelstone has made. Oh everybody could sell the assets the
way raffe Elstone has done. This goes to show you
that he is shown to be a good seller, a
good drafter, And you cannot tell me this is not
good value on a trade for KD compared to what

(47:58):
everybody was reporting up to a month ago. The Roget's
got you know, this is a buying trade, this is
a win now trade. It was a surgical acquisition, like
this is the type of guy we want and we need.
And we didn't pay a really huge premium on them
because we positioned ourselves in the negotiations in a way
that we were not the destpert side Phoenix was, and

(48:19):
that's why they got so little of that valley for him.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yeah, and one thing I want to push back on
I've seen some people talking in recent weeks, based on
the OKC Indiana models, there's been some talk of, oh,
does this prove that the superstar era is on its
way out? I mean, for starters, when you look at
the Thunder, SGA and Jalen Williams are stars, Kavi's Haliburton
is a star for Indiana, and I just think it's

(48:48):
pretty simple. The Rockets still have a deep rotation. They
still have lots of different guys who can play different ways.
So it's not like they've all of a sudden gone
very top heavy. But even in the current play, you
still need guys and we've seen this with SGA, We've
seen it with Jalen Williams, We've seen that with Tyreese
Halliburton that when things get tight late in close games

(49:10):
can just go out and get you a bucket. That's
what the Rockets did not have, at least not consistently
last season, and now they've got it with Kevin Durant.
So even if you think the super team era of
the NBA is over, which it probably is, that does
not mean that that there's not still a ton of
importance to having one of those guys. The Rockets didn't

(49:30):
last season. They do now and I think above all else,
that's why you should be feeling pretty good about this trade.
By the way, as far as shooting, Paolo, So, first off,
how Houston would it be if somehow Katie falls off
as a shooter this year. I had no reason to
think that he will. But if that happens, boy.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
Don't speak that. Don't speak that into the universe.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
No, but the optimistic take on it, Polo. So, did
you see the story last week that the Rockets are
ing out the seats at Toyota Center. Yeah?

Speaker 3 (50:03):
Them so black ones, right.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Yeah, to black ones. So if you're an astrospan and
you know all the talk that's been there in recent
years about painting the batter's eye darker and darker, maybe
that's what the Rockets needed all this time, to have
a black backdrop better than red. And now well, so
it's not exactly clear when it will be finished. It's
going to start this off season. The entire project won't

(50:25):
be finished until July of twenty six, so we don't
know if the arena will be black by the playoffs
next April. It could be not one hundred percent confirmed,
But the point is the Rockets are about to have
a much darker backdrop. And if there's anything we've learned
from the Astros, miraculously, the Rockets are now going to
make threes and the backdrop is black instead of red, right.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
I mean tell them to start with the the end
zone of like the both the the the end zones. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
basically start with that and then change the rest, you
know afterwards are maybe you could you know, mind gaming
and Cat steamed one half, right, and you use that
as a sort of home court advantage. Does he get
in the first half to get the good one in

(51:08):
the second baton or.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
The other way around?

Speaker 3 (51:10):
You you could, you know, you could have some gamesmanship
going on as far as the as the parallel with
the Astros, though, I just hope, I just hope, you know,
the Jeremy playing being a superstar now, I hope we
didn't send out our guy that was going to become
a superstar this year obviously, like no, one don't want
to put that out there. But but yeah, and I think, listen,
let's get let's go step forward and step farther. Right,

(51:31):
Let's look at the teams that k D played for. Right,
The nets have black seats and he had. I mean,
he was incredible with the black backdrop. So we have
I don't know what the one is in English. The President.
We have president, so we know he can do well
with the black seats. So we should just get that
done as soon as we.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Ca Yeah, absolutely, all right, Well that's enough for one episode.
So we will bring things to a close here. Again,
we will have much more content in the days and
weeks ahead. We won't have draft content. The Rockets are
now officially out of the twenty five draft, which a
lot of us suspected of how deep the team already
was with young players, But there's a lot more to come.

(52:10):
At some point in the next week, the Rockets are
going to finalize terms with Fred van Fleet on his
next contract. They also have option decisions to make on
the aforementioned Jack Landelle and Aaron Holliday. We'll see if
the Rockets make any moves in the start of free agency,
be it by trade or using whatever exceptions they have available.
Still to be determined exactly what financial tools they'll have

(52:32):
and how much will room they'll have to play with
over the remainder of the offseason, or maybe they as
we talked about on this show, choose to just stay
the course and learn more about guys like Reid and
Cam and then if you need to make an upgrade,
you might not even need to, but if you need to,
you'll still have that option available to you during the
season next year as you get closer to the twenty

(52:53):
sixth trade deadline. And then of course in early July,
we'll have the press conference with Kevin Durant and we'll
get to learn even more about what the thought process
was for KD and his team, and yeah, we'll see
what happens regardless, it's a good time to be a
fan of the Houston Rockets, and I think it will
be a good time to subscribe to this podcast because
we'll have a lot more content over what promises to

(53:15):
be a very fun few months leading up to the
twenty five to twenty six NBA season or the most
anticipated in Houston in sometime. All Right, that will do
it for today, But if you want more content before
our next show, the best place to get it is online.
Paolo is on Twitter slash x at Paolo Alps NBA.
I'm on Blue Sky at Benjubo's and this show is

(53:36):
on Twitter slash x at the logger line, where if
you hit up the link tree and the bio you
can find links to our friends, sponsors, partners of the program.
USA Today's Rockets are Houston's Carbach Brewing Sports SOX seven ninety.
Please consume their content if you have not already. That's
how we can look good to those friends, partners and
sponsors and keep this podcast running. Is one of the
most active ones covering Houston Rockets basketball. Also, you can

(53:57):
find distributors of the podcast. We've got links to Apple, Google, Spotify.
If you have not already subscribed to a positive review,
please do so again. That's another way we can keep
looking good and keep rolling as one of the most
active podcasts covering your Houston Rockets. With those plugs complete,
we will adjourn for today for Polo Alves, I'm Ben
Jubo's thanks as always for listening, and folks, Kevin Durant

(54:17):
is a Houston Rocket. More coverage on the way stick
with us at the logger Line as the off season continues.