September 9, 2025 • 50 mins
The guest is Andrew Brandt, a former Green Bay Packers executive who writes for Sports Illustrated and is a leading voice in sports business reporting. He discusses his time with the Packers and explores the topic of NIL in college sports.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I deal with hundreds of kids every year that say, hey, mister.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Brand I want to be an agent. I'm like, good
luck with that.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
In the NFL, NBA, you've got certification, you've got regulation,
you've got governance.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I am dealing with cousins, aunts, uncles, mothers, fathers, AAU, coaches, advisors,
and they have unrealistic demands. The problem is you don't know.
They say, well, Tennessee's offering this, Alabama's offering this. You
don't know, like this is like you're going in a
(00:34):
lot of times blind. I'm just trying to use my
experience and tack to try to get the best deals
for Louisville football and basketball while keeping us competitive with
our competitors.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
This is the Leravian La Pey Podcast, a production of
iHeartRadio Podcasts, with host Swayne Larvie, the voice of the
Green Bay Packers, and Matt Lapey, the voice of Wisconsin
Badgers football and men's basketball. The Laravie La pay Podcast
is presented by Potawatamy Casino Hotel. Your win is waiting.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Hi everybody, I'm.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Wayne Lara and I'm Matt Lapez.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Welcome to the Laravila Pey Podcast presented by potawata Be
Casino Hotel. Coming up on this episode, we visit with
former Green Day Packers executive Andrew Brandt, who's one of
the foremost reporters of sports businesses in the nation. Currently,
he's the executive director of the Morad Center at Villanova,
the author of the popular Sunday seven newsletter, and has
been a contributor and a columnist for Sports Illustrated. The
(01:35):
Packers and Badgers both off to unblemish starts, but this
is a big week with the pack hosting the Washington
Commanders on Thursday night and the Badger's traveling to Tuscaloosa
to take on the Crimson Tide on Saturday Day. We've
got good stuff for you this week on the Laravie
La Pey Podcast, brought to you by potawata Be Casino Hotel.
(01:55):
Your win is waiting and we welcome into the Laravie
La pay Podcast. Andrew Brant, longtime agent, NFL executive, capologist,
sports lawyer. Andrew, your list is too long. You and
I Let's go back to nineteen ninety nine. You and
I got to the Green Bay Packers at the same
(02:16):
time Bob Harlan was running that organization which was becoming
a world class organization out of a little pill box
in the north end zone of Field on the corner
of Lombardi Avenue and Ridge Road. And you could walk
into that building, Andrew, and walk up the stairs one
flight of stairs and walk straight into Bob's office and say, Bob,
(02:36):
how you doing the executive the executive he was the
president and CEO of the team at the time. That
doesn't happen in today's NFL, no way.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
And it's funny we just before we started recording you
and I realized we started the same time. But it
was a different NFL, certainly a different Green Bay Packers.
I know a lot of people have this reaction where
they're driving through the streets of Green Bay and oh,
my god, on your left is lambeau Field. But not
so much now as back then when you're seeing this
(03:07):
little stadium with just the lower bowl and as you said,
the annex where our offices were just kind of two
hallways where the front office of the Green Bay Packers
with below us the training room and then it connects
to the.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Locker room and then.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
The little pro shop, which was like a tiny footprint
of what the pro Shop is now. So it was
a different time and place and in my early years there,
as you know, a lot was focused on how do
we renovate, not build a new stadium, how do we
renovate to keep the legacy to history but modernize what's
(03:47):
going on with the NFL and all the stadium economics
that were going on. We've got to create revenue from
this building, not ten days a year, but three hundred
days a year.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
We've got to do that.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And then course in two thousand and one the Atrium, Curlyes,
meeting spaces, ice cream stores, and of course the Packer
Hall of Fame. It just created a different economics for
that stadium. And if you're going to compete in the NFL,
you can't just do it on TV revenues and national revenues.
(04:19):
You need some local revenue as well.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
It always seemed I'm trying to remember this right too, guys,
that you figured if there was one franchise who could
push something like this through relatively easily, it would be
the Green Bay Packers. But it was anything but what'n't
it touch and go with what Bob Harlan and everybody,
I mean, it wasn't exactly a given that all this was.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Going to happen.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, even me, man, I'm like, this will be a
slamdom And I'm like no. I went along with Bob Harlan,
along with O there's door to door. We need a
referendum for Brown County half sent sales tax. That's all
we needed. Sounds like that's all we needed. A lot
of people against it. People were against it, and I
(05:03):
had doors shut in my face. Wow, like you know,
all these millionaires blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I never thought we brought out with the threat of leaving,
because I know that was unrealistic. But we passed Matt
by the slimits to margins. I can't remember, but it was,
you know, maybe fifty point two percent, the forty nine
point eight percent or whatever it was to get that referendum,
just to fund a small portion of that renovation.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Yeah, And that changed everything around Oneida Street and all
kinds of businesses started looming on that avenue and it
changed the economics, it really did. And then Mark Murphy
and but he took it a step or two further.
That's but when the new renovation was done back in
two thousand and one. That's when the organization started to change.
(05:52):
That's when you couldn't walk up a flight of stairs.
Matt who walk into Bob Harlan's off and they say, hey,
how you doing? You know now you needed pass code,
you needed little cards and everything. Oh my gosh, it's different.
But hey, I guess it had to because we're talking
about a billion dollar industry here in relation to this
packer situation which is unique today. For example, teams are
(06:15):
selling a percentage of their team. The Raiders have done it.
The giants are going to sell ten percent of the
their team to an investor for a billion dollars. This
is where owners can make revenue on what they've got,
and you know the packers really they can't in that regard, right,
is this a major disadvantage for Green Bay as you
(06:36):
see at Andrew.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, it's interesting because I heard and still here all
the time from competitor teams, competitor fans. You can do
this stock sale, right, You can just all of a
sudden create money by selling two hundred dollars to fifty
three hundred dollars for a piece of paper. And by
the way, packer fans consider that their most prized possession.
(06:59):
Other fans think it's a waste of money in the paper.
Excuse me, I got a cold. Yesackers can't do that.
These teams are cashing out, like you just said, a
billion dollars for ten percent and giving up zero control
(07:19):
the new you know, minority investor in the Giants, they're
not gonna have any input on what players.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
The draft or to play or what plays.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
The Bills, the Eagles, the Dolphins, the Raiders have all
sold minorty investments. The thing is Matt and Wane. This
happened a couple of years ago, and it happened with
the Josh Harris purchase of the Washington Commanders, where this
guy who owns an NBA franchise and an NHL franchise
(07:50):
had a real troubling time putting together group to fund
a six billion dollar purchase of the Commanders. NFL owners
got together and one told me, we we can't count
on multi billionaires alone anymore. We need corporate money. So
the NFL in twenty twenty four allowed for private equity investment.
Now it's up to ten percent of a team, and
(08:12):
it's harsher rules than NBA and NHL. In Major League Baseball.
But that was a big step for the NFL. And
now we see these private equity corporate investments that are
going to continue to fund these teams, and yes, that's
not available for the packer.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Look at this is a very general question. In my
adult life, I've heard or thought at some point the
bubbles going to burst and pick your spart. I don't
know in my lifetime if I want to see that.
I mean, particularly with the NFL. I mean when you're
getting one hundred million people plus watching the Super Bowl
and in the twenty millions on a routine basis, I
(08:54):
don't see it happening to you.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
The power of the NFL never sees it too. We
heard about the concussion problem, we heard about the Kaepernick issue. Whatever,
you know, it seems to overcome that. The ratings sore
every week. It does seem too big to fail. I
(09:18):
don't know what could potentially be the threat for the NFL.
I'm thinking maybe a sports betting scandal, but it's hard
to believe that would even do it. I can't see
a major threat to its prosperity.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
You know about twenty years ago, and this is pursuing
to your point, I asked Jerry Reinsdorf. I was working
for one of his teams, the Bulls, at the time,
and I asked him, you know, boy, when is this
sports explosion? I said, how much more can we spend
on athletes and all this other stuff? He says, oh, no,
it's not coming to win it. It's live sports. And
(09:57):
because people don't usually the tape live sports, they watched
the commercials, and this entity, the sports in general on TV,
is just gonna get bigger. And he was exactly right.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Twenty years later, you think about it, there is no
live television. It's news and sports, and sports is much
more valuable than news.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
Yeah, Andrew, what kept you from sleeping a night more
working as an agent or working in the Packers' front office.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Times a year.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
You know, you have the free agency time, which is
you know, February March. With Green Bay, it's always tough.
We didn't do a lot in free agency, but there
were times like I felt that not only the team,
but the vast backer nation was counting on me to
(10:53):
get a player sign, get him extended, get a free
agent signed. I understood the magnitude. I wasn't awe by it,
but I certainly felt it. You know what's interesting is
people ask me the different roles, like what do you
prefer As an agent, You're really more like a fantasy
football owner. You got players on this team, that team,
(11:14):
that team. You don't care about the team, you really don't.
You care about your guys from a team.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
It's all about the team.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
And every contract you do is precedent for the next
contract you do, so it's much more as a team negotiator,
you're much more worried about precedent, fitting it in as
we know, to the cap, and then just sort of
you know, you like an agent, you like a player,
or he wants to do a special clause in the
(11:44):
contract and you just can't. And you say, I'd love to,
but if I do this, I'll have a line at
my door with every player, every agent, Like can't you
just put that in mind, because you know, players and
agents are like high school girls. All they do is
talk about what everyone else is getting, you know, and
(12:05):
as soon as you do something, I hear it from
agents like, oh my god, I got.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
To get that. So I was very conscious of that.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
And in that you know, language, people talk a lot
about language. It doesn't make the news a lot in contracts.
When I did Brett or Aaron's contract or Charles Woodson's
language was key because if I if I, obviously we're
giving them a ton of money. But if I got
the language I want, then every other conversation with language
(12:34):
was like, hey, Brett's got it, Aaron's got it, and
that's the end of discussion because no player is going
to say, well, I want different language than eron.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
So these are the kind of things you got to
think about, you know.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
I got to ask you about the Micah Parsonsteel. Yeah,
from a number of different views. Number one, how could
Dallas give up a guy like this? Number two, this
probably does happened in the Ted Thompson here. He's not
going to give up two first round right choices for
the pope, for God's sakes. Oh and by the way,
high school, just to balance your comment from earlier, high
(13:08):
school boys talked to. So just so that we are
covered with our critics, fuck me those sexist people talking
about girls talking. No guys talk to anyway. But I
dig reb Andrew, you're getting us in trouble. There will
be lawyers, as you say, go on here, Yes, we
(13:30):
got one here. So the mic at Parsons deal. You know,
I look at Brian goodukuz he fashions himself as a
Ted Thompson guy. But in observing him, and I talked
to him just the other day, observing him, I think
he's more Ron Wolf. He's going to take a shot
out there. His first year's GM, they were right in
(13:52):
the thick of the running to get Khalil Mack from
the Raiders. Reggie McKenzie was the executive, and you know
Reggie very well from our days. He was the executive
in Oakland at the time. And the reason the Bears
got Khalil Mack was because Reggie said, well, we think
their draft choices are going to be higher than yours.
He was wrong, because they got Khalil Mack of the
(14:13):
Bear's won twelve games, but at any rate, that was
the difference. So now six seven years later, here he is.
Micah Parsons comes available, and Goody goes in and throws
two first round draft choices at it. And Kenny Clark,
who's a big man in that Packers locker room, no question,
both on and off the field, and they pull off
the steal. How do you see Brian Goodakootz Is he
(14:37):
more Ron Wolf? Is he more Ted Thompson?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Great question, because he was there for both, as you know.
And I remember coming in and here's this area scout
from the southeast, and like, yeah, a nice guy, Brian Goodcuts,
seems like a good kid. And then he obviously grew
up in both those things. I was still shocked, Wayne,
I was totally shocked because the disciple of Ted and
(15:04):
just seeing the value of draft picks in green Bay.
You're never gonna see green Bay trade up in the
first round. They'd rather trade down. They want more picks.
That's been the idea with the Packers, more and more
and more picks.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
So it shocked me.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
But then I come back to the run wolf element.
You just can't get a guy like him. Teams are smart.
They're never gonna lead a premium player at a premium position,
at a premium age twenty six come free, whether it's
free agent or trade. It just these things don't.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Happen in sports.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
They just told you don't get this player available like
you get available free agents who are thirty thirty one
with great backgrounds or whatever, or average players at twenty six.
But wow, so I think it's you're right. Elements of
both were jumped on obviously Reggie White, but to be
(16:03):
fair to Ted, I was very involved in Charles Woodson.
You know, John Schneider probably led that with Ted's buy in,
and we got that done.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
There are you know, and.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Of course Xavier mccon, well that was after Ted, but
they're Julius Pepper's. There have been other ones, but this
one is a trade different than free agency. And you know,
we'll get to what you saw on Sunday, but I
just look at it and say, okay, this is very
unpacker like, and the contract is very unpacker like. But
(16:43):
there are moments in a career that are defining, and
you know, we're one game in.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
We'll see how it goes well.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
The other thing, Andrew, I've often said, front offices will
tell you what they think of their football team by
the way they do business. I mean, players they bring in.
Backup quarterback will tell you a lot. If you got
a guy who's never to throw in a passage, your
backup quarterback, your front office says, this isn't our years,
it's not time to invest in that insurance of policy.
A move like this does this say to you on
(17:12):
the outside looking in that the Packers think they're real
close and this player might push them over the top.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Absolutely, you know, Wayne, there were a couple of years
in my nine and a half almost ten years there
where we felt that.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I felt that.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Well, the toughest one was the fourth and twenty sixth
year to the Eagles, because I knew, you know, we
had the team, and I think Carolina went on to
the Super Bowl against New England.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
We had the team.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
We had the team, and I think there was one
other year where Michael Vick came in on a snowy
night and beat us in the playoffs with the Falcons,
and we all said we had the team. Some years
you don't, you know, you don't. So I totally believe that,
and I know teams talk that way. So you're absolutely
right that the cognitive sentie of the Packers, which includes
(18:01):
Brian and now ed policy Russ Baull, got together and said,
this is our chance. Now again two numbers. That is
huge for the Packers. That just shows you, as Brian said.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
The level of the player you mentioned one game in
But this is like always joke in college everybody met
makes final judgments twelve times a year. Evan how their
team does in the NFL at seventeen times. But I
listen to a good friend of mine, my broadcast partner
at Badger Games, Mark Tauscher, and one game in, but
he has a feeling, particularly with the parts and his acquisition,
(18:37):
that this team, the makeup of it could be a
little bit different than what we've seen, and that it's
a defense first oriented team. Obviously, we've had Hall of
Fame Aaron Wilby. I would think five years after he retires,
far has already in. Do you guys see it the
same way though? I mean the difference what could put
these guys over the top is what they have defensively.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
First one game in, we have to yes, check back
in December, but yes, yeah, that was impress I mean, Wayne,
you guys got a front row seat.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean, that was so impressive.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Just you know, if it's the same team that we
saw last year with Detroit, I mean, oh my god,
it was just like Detroit. We did to Detroit what
Detroit did to a lot of teams last year. You know,
another big challenge coming up in a couple of days.
Obviously the schedule makers make it tough right away, but yeah,
(19:36):
that is a strong d And you know, I think
when we talk about Parsons, you know, the obvious point
is making.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Other people better.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
It was proven right away, and those are the superstars.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
It's not just the wow plays like where they keep
showing of him running down Jared Goff, but it's the
it's the making other guys better. And you know van
Ness has to be thinking in the lord and some
of these other guys like, oh my god, my game
is going to get so much better.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yeah, he just meant. It made Rashaun Garry a double
digit ZAC guy, maybe Lucas van Ness as well. And
in the secondary, you know, their cover their corners are good, tough,
physical players. They will come up and support against the run,
which I love. As pure cover guys, they're probably average
or thereabouts in that regard. I think that's a fair
(20:29):
assessment across the league. That's what they are. But Micah
Parsons makes them a little better than that, and that's
the whole effect you're talking about. We're visiting with former
Green Bay Packers executive Andrew Brandt, who's one of the
foremost reporters of sports business in the nation. Andrew, I
wanted to ask you, and I know Matt's involved the
college game, and we wanted to ask you about NIL.
(20:51):
You're involved with Louisville, you know, consulting them, that type
of thing. You watch it very closely, obviously in your
role as a sports business. And the list is this sustainable?
Is what they passed in Congress? Is this kind of
the framework that we're going to be operating under? And
where are the teams going to or are schools and
(21:13):
organizations and programs, as they say in the SEC, going
to be able to circumpute this to get an advantage.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Well, let's start with it's not an act of Congress.
It's it's a it's a legal settlement, so excuse me.
Over the last several years.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
There was litigation against the NCAA.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
We finally into July had a settlement, and the settlement says, okay,
we're going to backpay all the players who didn't get NIL.
And the most important thing me looking at it is
that we've got a revenue share cap, just like the NFL,
just like the NBA, just like baseball are not baseball hockey.
(21:52):
We've got a cap and the cap is twenty point
five million for all sports some schools have twenty sports,
some schools have thirty sports. Obviously, the money's primarily going
to go to football and men's basketball. So now we've
got some level of a level playing field, although you
can still supplement with true nil.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So the twenty point five is.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Coming from the school directly, not dealing with any kind
of endorsements, just from the school. But you can still
do endorsements. But the potential for cheating is supposedly now
run by the NCAA, and they're firm the CSSE to
judge nil deals whether they're true fair market value or
(22:37):
they're shams to get her on the gap. It's a
work in progress. With my background, I've been reached a
couple of schools, reached out. Louisville's athletic director I used
to work with at Villanova, and I've come in there
and tried to be a voice, a strateique advisor for
the NL and negotiate some of the bigger deals for
(22:59):
Louisville football and basketball and Matt and Wayne. What a
world there is no there is no agent regulation in
college and I deal with hundreds of kids every year
that say, hey, mister brand I want to be an agent.
I'm like, goodwuck with that. In the NFL, NBA, you've
(23:20):
got certification, you've got regulation, you've got governance.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Nothing.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I am dealing with cousins, aunts, uncles, mothers, fathers, AAU, coaches, advisors,
and they have unrealistic demands. The problem is you don't know.
They say, well, Tennessee's offering this, Alabama's offering this. You
don't know, like this is like you're going in a
(23:47):
lot of times blind. I'm just trying to use my
experience and tack to try to get the best deals
for Louisville football and basketball while keeping us competitive with
our competitors. It is a tough road to navigate that.
Right now, your question is the big one, is this sustainable? Well,
(24:08):
it's sustainable if everyone plays by the rules and we
have a twenty cap this year, a twenty three million
dollar cap next year, and so on and so on.
It's not sustainable if teams don't play the by the rules.
If SEC teams instead of twenty point five million are
paying forty million. With all these whether their sham deals
(24:32):
or not to be evaluated, then you're just dealing with
what you had before. And there's a two tiered system,
and the other schools don't have liquidity to compete, and
here we are.
Speaker 6 (24:44):
So if this.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Valuing nil deals is real and schools treated as real
and don't fake nil, and you know we have a
real governance system them, but it's hard to know right now.
We're still in the ground for.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
And the other thing too, Wayne. This went into affect
July at one. So it's been said that a lot
of schools there's been a lot of front loading. So
this year it could still be out of balance. It
could be select number of schools with a much higher
budget for NIL for your third party nil before and
then after July. First you have to go through a clearinghouse.
But I always go back Andrew with this, and I'm
(25:26):
not an attorney, so I'm glad we have one here.
But you always say there will be lawyers. Let's say
that as it stands now, a clearing house can reject
if I'm a star quarterback in the local car dealership says, hey, Matt,
here's five hundred thousand dollars to do, not a ton.
The clearing house will put a thumbs down on that.
You resubmit the offer, and if you get rejected again,
(25:46):
you go to arbitration. I'm just wondering, again, there will
be lawyers if I get rejected twice as arbitration another
thumbs down. What's to say that I won't have a
pretty good attorney to say, oh, wait a minute. If
they think that's a fair range of compensation, there are
terms in the clearinghouse. Who's to say I can't get that.
That's my question for it's my concern too. A couple
(26:10):
things you brought up there. Let's just unpack front loading.
Before July one the cap went into effect. Yes, we
did that at Louisville. A lot of schools did that,
but to the level. That's where the disparity happened. I
know of at least one SEC school that front loaded
their entire football roster, so zero.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
On the cap, so they spent. In other words, these
players got their money before the season even started. If
they want to walk away with their a million dollars.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
They can.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
And even if we have the liquidity, I could not
suggest that. You know, there is the arbitration process. So
I think some of the people are overplaying my line.
There will be lawyers because there is an arbitration, and
here four months we have not seen someone actually take
to court whether their nil deal is fair market value
(27:07):
or not. But I go back to my point, are
people taking this seriously? In other words, what if a
player just doesn't report like he's doing some for a
car dealer gets half a million dollars, he decides I'm
not going to report it, Like we don't know, like
do you know, like if they see him with a
(27:30):
car or is someone going to report them? Like these
are the things that's so hard.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I don't know the answer.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
You hope that everyone plays by the rules. We kind
of know that's not going to happen, but you know,
there are you know, we can talk about this, Cody Campbell.
Everyone's trying to come up with the the allowance for something.
But what people come up to me, and I'm sure you.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Guys feel this way.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
They're a big problem with college sports right now is
the transfer port because it's unlimited from lawyers. Lawyers went
to court and said, hey, Joe the engineering student, he
can transfer every year. Sally the music student, she can
transfer every year. Why can't the athletes and the judges
(28:18):
by and large have said you're right.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So now we have new.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Teams every year and transfer portal is to me more
stressful than NFL free agency because it's just ongoing and
this is where we are, so we're looking for.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Solutions just to follow up on that. It seems to me,
in essence, athletes today are independent contractors. They're getting rev
share nil deals, but the NCAA is adam it to
declare them as university employees or universities are reluctant to
say that, no, they are employees. Isn't a pipe stream
(28:58):
to think that there could be at some point some
kind of collective bargaining here? I mean? And is that
maybe the best, if not only, solution in the long run.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, I'm asked that a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
And as a sports lawyer, you obviously prefer collective bargaining,
and that's what we study with sports law and these
cbas between NFL players NFL and there are a couple
issues here. First of all, if you're bargaining, who's bargaining?
Is it the college football players? Is it the college
(29:32):
basketball players? Is it the college swimmers? And who are
they bargaining against? Is it the NCAA, is it the conference?
Is it the school? It sounds easier than when you
start to think about it. And then you know, I'm
speaking from a school angle here. If it's just giving
(29:54):
employment rights to football and basketball players, I get it,
that could potentially work. But these schools have six hundred
and seven hundred student athletes swimming, diving, lacrosse, soccer, field hockey, tennis, golf.
I mean, if you're going to give minimum salary protections
and overtime and workers comp to all the field hockey
(30:17):
and swimming and diver, like, it's just not sustainable. So
I think the collective bargaining negotiations are a way. But
if you start drilling down, like, how do you figure
that out?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, good point.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
No question. Andrew Brandt is with us. He is the
executive director of the Morad Center at Villanova. Andrew, tell
us about your your endeavor as a teacher and the
kids you're dealing with and where they're going and what
their views are on all of this.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
You know, I think I think you know this, Wayne,
But when I left the Packers, I didn't want to
work for another team.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I got a couple of calls, and.
Speaker 6 (30:58):
I just I really.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Wanted to do two things in media, do one thing basically,
but in both media and academia, which is sort of
peel back the curtain show people what really happens in
the inner workings of sports in a way that I
saw was not being done. And that's what I've been
doing in the past thirteen fourteen years, and it's been
a great ride, you know, where I can sort of
(31:21):
tell people this is how it really works, and this
is what my experiences are, and that's the way I teach.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
That's the way I do media.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Sort of.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
A lot of academia is theoretical, and the way I
do it is more practical, experience based. I just mentioned
a lot of students want to be agents. I sort
of disabuse them of that notion or just make them
aware how hard it is. I'll do like a role
play right away. I'll say, Okay, I think.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
You're an agent. I deem you an agent. I'm a player.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Why would I sound with you? You know, why would
I send with you? So these are the kind of
things you work on with students. Villanova gave me a
lot of leash, you know. They just I was teaching
at Wharton University of Pennsylvania and they said, hey, we'll
make a program in your image, and that's the image
I want. So I have sports law teams negotiating business.
(32:14):
I have sports law concentration students and just trying to
make them prepared. The problem with sports as everyone knows
a lot of interest, not a lot of jobs on
the other side, So patience is the key. But everyone's
looking for a way to sort of separate themselves from
(32:36):
the competition, and being my part of my program hopefully
helps that.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
You teach at Villanova consulting at Louisville Business Is Sports
podcast Sunday seven.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
You do a daily hit, a daily video.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
You're really slacking, Andrew. That's a pretty full plague, you
guy going.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, now you're explaining why I got this cold. Keep
coughing it.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
You know, like I said when I left the Packers,
I didn't want to quote unquote full time job. I
kind of do have one, but again it's more on
my terms and doing what.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I want to do.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Obviously, you know, I'm into fitness. I'm into seeing my family,
my boys grow up as they have so crafting the
life that I've been able to do has been really rewarding.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Yeah, well, listen, congratulations on everything, Andrew. We can't thank
you enough for taking time out with us. It's It's
always great to have you on and we get a
little smarter after talking with you, that is for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yes, sir, I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I appreciate the work you're doing and I can't I
got to hear your call the other day when when
Mike co was introduced, that must have been something.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
It was amazing, you know what. It else was good
about that day At halftime, they're honoring the Super Bowl
forty five unions. When Mike McCarthy came out, he was
the last one I introduced, and the crowd just a
tremendous ovation for him, and I think he was really
surprised and touched, you know. But yeah, it was great.
Were mission Green Bay?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, I come back every couple of years.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I was back for the Houston game, which was a
white out game, supposed to be cold.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
It was eighty degrees last year.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
And uh, it's a great day, great day.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
And then I'll look maybe some sometime later this year,
I'll be I'll let you guys.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Know, let me know. Yeah, we definitely love to host you.
That'd be great. Andrew, thank you, Pat a lot of me.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Casino Hotel, your win is waiting. We wait it sounded
and looked glorious at lambeau Field on Sunday. I mean,
that's a big boy opener. You got the Detroit Lions
and till everybody knows how good that you know they are.
I know they have two new coordinators, but not just
to win as the Packers did, but to dominate. You
(34:48):
could argue the final score was deceiting. It just great start.
As you said, the Parses project. I appreciate that. I'm
an Alan Parses fan. We could just call it the
Micah Parsons Project.
Speaker 6 (35:02):
So was that what you added by there?
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Bringing that? You know, it added a little bit. I
was just dating myself, you know, I loved it.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
I felt like we're getting ready for Ray Clay to
introduce from North Carolina the six Michael Jordan. But it
is amazing, and you know, we talk about this with Andrew.
It's not just the ability of Micah Parsons individually, but
and as you said, like Rashaw, Gary and others, Lucas
(35:32):
van Ness could benefit immensely from this. It's one game,
I know, and we'll react, but there's a lot of
promise with how good this defense could be.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Yeah, and Jeff Hafley does a marvelous job of executing
that defense, and the Lions dominated time of possession. They
had the ball over thirty five minutes. They ran sixty
some plays. The Packers ran forty seven. But when you
looked at the numbers in the end, the Lions didn't
even get three hundred yards offense. And that's number one
offense from last year. I know this year is different,
and this is why we tell you, folks, every year
(36:05):
is different. We don't know what we're gonna get. But
the Lions were the top offense a year ago. I
think they'll be one of the top offenses again and
this year. But that was a great effort by the
Packers defense. And I thought Jordan love Matt. We haven't
talked much about him, but I thought he looked pretty solid.
He was just solid. He was for the most part
on the money with his throws and hit a couple
of big plays. And the Packers built a seventeen to
(36:27):
three lead without being able to run the football. I
mean they had like eight yards on six carries on
the ground at halftime, which very unlike what their team
is supposed to be. So it was a good win
in a lot of different ways. And now it's on
to Washington and this game. You know, this is what
worries me about a game like this on a Thursday night,
(36:48):
this early in the season. Okay, let's be honest, Nobody
in the NFL. None of these teams are in midseason form.
None of these teams have done a lot of hitting.
They're basically playing four quarters of the football for the
first time since last year. So no one's quite ready
for this. So you get the opener, okay, and then
(37:09):
you got to play a game in five days. I mean,
you know how sore it is when you go back
to the gym if you've been off for a week
or so. Man, good second day, I can't walk.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Yeah, my workouts are so gruelling too, So yeah, I
get that. But Waite, I always come back because I
think you bring a perspective that very few others do
in the media around here, because it's you're either the
greatest or everybody's got to get benched or fired. And
it was a wonderful deck. It was a terrific game
(37:39):
for the Green Bay Packers. But I remind myself, let's
watch this team through September, get into October. And then
right you kind of find out what you have.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Yep, yeah, no, Matt, You're exactly right. And the one
caveat to that view, and that's you and I are
on track with that view. The one caveat is injuries. Okay,
going to get injured. You know who's going to get injured,
not how many, but who and how long will they
be out? And that can change your season, That can
change the whole outlook of your season. But you know,
(38:11):
we can't, we don't. We can't predict that. We just
know they're going to be injuries. And in fact, the
Packers going into this week will probably be a little
bit shorthanded. Zach Tom suffered a hip hip injury, you know,
Bo Melton went down with a shoulder injury. Not sure
on their status for this week's game and short notice
like this, but at any rate, it'll be interesting to
(38:31):
see how it all pans out. You're exactly right. We
don't know in the NFL boys and girls until about October,
and then we have an idea because they finally have
played some games. Now you know who's injured, who isn't injured.
Now you get the chance. You know, the Eagles last
year they started out the season. You know, they beat
the Packers and and really the Eagles could have blown
that game in Brazil opened but their mistakes, their turnovers
(38:53):
and fumbles and things like that really made the game
a little closer than it had to be. They were
two and two going into the by last year and
not looking real good and came out of the by
and just found their form and just motored to the
super Bowl. So just get through the first month. About
three and one would be great. Two and two you're
not out of anything. If you're all in four, you
(39:16):
got a problem then, or even one of three. But
if you just come out, you know, break even Packers,
then will get a buy and then you got your season.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
And again I'm kind of breaking the four game rule here,
but I think there's a lot of optimism with the
Packer fans about how Green Bay started. I would think
with the Minnesota Vikings to come back the way they
did on Monday Night in Chicago, Jj McCarthy throws up
picks six and things really could have gone off the rails.
But he shows maybe some of that National championship pedigree
(39:46):
that he had his Michigan's quarterback A couple of years ago.
Again one game, but pretty impressive for the Vikings in
a guy making his first NFL start in his hometown area.
And they made a fairly big deal about that broadcast.
But that was pretty impressive poise, was it not from
Minnesota's quarterback?
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Yeah, And first off, yes, you're correct, And I think
a lot of it has to do with the coaching.
Ovis Okay, there's nobody better than Kevin O'Connell. There's nobody
better running a defense than what they have in Minnesota
right now. And I think that coaching that whole first half,
(40:27):
Minnesota's defense didn't do a whole lot. They were setting
the bearers up and then they started blitzing in the
second half, and that all of a sudden, Caleb Williams
wasn't very comfortable or accurate. You know, same thing with
O'Connell and the quarterback. O'Connell said, hey, listen, you're going
to lead us to a comeback victory here, and by god,
he did. And I'm sure that that sets the tone
(40:48):
for Minnesota. There's no doubt about that, because the question
they had was can you win with this quarterback? You
saw him in college. I don't know how much you
saw him, Matt, what were your impressions of McCarthy.
Speaker 5 (40:58):
You didn't see him a lot here was Consin did
not play them in twenty twenty three. They last saw
him in twenty twenty two, and it was a blowout game.
The thing about McCarthy because Michigan those last couple of
years that Harball was there was such a run oriented team.
I mean they had a great offensive line and they
would just pound you into submission. It was as though
(41:20):
they didn't ask him to chuck it thirty thirty five
times a game. But the thing about him when at
the college level is that when they did, he delivered.
He got the ball rough supposed to go. He was
not a mistake. He just didn't make a ton of mistakes,
didn't make many at all. So while the volume of
pass attempts, you know, they were as a run heavy team,
(41:42):
you didn't see a lot, But he was good when
they asked him to throw the ball. So that was
I think there was a lot of and will continue
to be questions I think about McCarthy because of the
system he played under in ann Arbor, But he showed
it in college and he certainly showed it on Monday night.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
But yeah, he could.
Speaker 5 (42:02):
When he needs to deliver it, he can do that.
So that was your kudos to him, and that were
you know. And and the Bears fans are in disarray
for the next few days and then.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
They maybe get over it.
Speaker 5 (42:12):
Wayne, we have both been blessed in our careers to
be around to work games and in venues, you know,
iconic venues across the country. This will be my first
time going to Bryant Denny Stadium in Tuscal, Lusa, where
the Badgers are playing Alabama. Bo Ryan team took a
basketball They played a basketball game down there many many
(42:35):
years ago during the holiday break and different vibe. The
program was good, not nearly as good as it is
now in Tuscal Lusa. I don't know if you've ever
been to Bryant Denny Stadium, but one hundred thousand will
be there and just a little bit of a tougher
test in story for the Badgers after the first two games.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
So far, so good for the Badgers. It sounded like
listening to you and Mark Tauscher, and boy Tausch does
a great job. His comments are so timely. I've had
a chance to listen to most of your two broadcasts,
because I've been I don't know, going somewhere from Green
Bay to somewhere and whatever. But you know, he does
a great job, and you guys really sound great together.
(43:15):
And I mean that sincerely from what I can tell, Okay,
took care of Badgers have taken care of business. How
much of a measuring stick is this game? Because Alabama
came out and laid an egg opening week, lost you know,
pretty convincingly, and then you know last week took care
of business at home? How big a game is this
for the Badgers finding out who they are or how
(43:36):
far they might go.
Speaker 5 (43:37):
Well, it's such a you know, I hate that it's
a cliche. It's such a massive opportunity, but it is is.
I think that there's a lot of skepticism on the
fan base about the Badgers right now because the last
few years have not been up to their standards. We
all know that can change in a game, you know,
if they could do something that nobody believes they can
(43:57):
do and go down to Tuscaloosa and win the game.
But I think really they just you need to be
more competitive in these kind of games. They were not
really competitive in the game against Alabama. They were for
most of the first half, but then things you know,
unraveled and it turned into a blowout. When and we
know how to into the regular season. For the Badgers,
(44:20):
I do think in Tuscaloosa, Wayne, there's there's some nervousness
as well. Kalin de bores in his second year there.
The standard it was so high with Nick Saban all
the national championships, and they've lost a few games. They
have the audacity of losing four games last year. They
were handled by Florida State in Tallahassee a couple of
(44:41):
weeks ago. But for the Badgers, I think it's a
big test. Specifically, they really wanted to shore up their
run defense. It's been very good, albeit against non power
for competition. If this defense, and I think this defense
could be pretty solid, Wayne, if they could hold up
and make it difficult for Alabama to run the ball,
(45:04):
and if they can continue to get pressure on the quarterback,
which they have done in the first two games, which
they did not do well at all last year, that
I think this defense can keep them in the game.
The problem right now, Wayane is the offensive line. If
they've had to shuffle the deck, the right tackle was
the left tackle last week and that's going to continue.
The right guard became the right tackle. The only one
(45:26):
to stay home was Joe Brunner at left guard. The
center has been The center was art starting center didn't
play last week. As we record this, they'll know what
his status is going to be moving forward. It doesn't
matter what the system is. If your offensive line isn't right,
you're going to have a problem. And that's been i
think something that bad luck, injuries and all of this
(45:47):
lack of depth that's held them back a little bit.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Yeah. Absolutely. Hey, listen, you were inducted officially into the
Wisconsin Hall of Fame Dona Madison last Friday. Congratulations number one.
And we knew this, we've known this for a while now,
but just to go in and what was that experience like?
Speaker 6 (46:06):
It was? It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
They we do Q and A and so Mark Tauscher
was the one asking me the question. So it was,
you know, uh, he had to get at a couple
of pokes, which I was I'm glad he did. You know,
we have to they have to have a little bit
of a roast in there, but it was it was
so it was humbly man. I mean, you know we
both have been you know, with with the WBA Hall
of Fame and all of that, you start thinking about
(46:29):
so many other people.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
It was.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
It was great for me.
Speaker 5 (46:31):
I had a lot of my close friends were there
Friday night, little after party, Saturday night, Mark put together
at dinner with Brooks Bollinger, the former quarterback, really Kirk
Penny on the basketball staff obviously great, great player. And
Evan Cohen who way back when interned for US and
now he's a big star at ESPN doing the unsportsmanlike
(46:53):
show on radio and television. So we've remained very close
through the years. So Saturday night after the game was
a lot of fun as well, But it was you
just start thinking about everybody else because I was lucky
because if these programs, football and basketball didn't grow the
way they did, like, am I gonna be honored?
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Probably not.
Speaker 5 (47:11):
So it was really the work of everybody else. I
just I was the guy with a lucky seat to
narrate a good chunk of their history.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Yeah, well you're you're false modesty here like false so
false so false modesty. No, you well deserved, You've been
there for thirty years. Absolutely an institution. And you know
what's great, Matt, is that the school, the or the
department that you've worked for all these years really appreciates you.
(47:41):
And that's that's just something as a broadcaster you don't
get everywhere, and I think that's great you and Davennett
in Chicago Northwestern appreciates him so much. He's part of
their hall of fame as well, and that makes such
a difference as a broadcaster. You know, when the people
you work for really support you. Yeah, it's so important.
Speaker 5 (48:01):
And I think a lot of my colleagues in college
there might be a tinge of jealousy because we are
granted a fair amount of access and in college a
lot of those programs are like Ford Knox and I'm
sure it's much like that in the NFL as well.
But you know, Barry Alvarez, Brettbee, the Paul Chris look
fickle now is very you know, And Dave mccanner, engineer,
(48:24):
knows this because we record our various programs and then
we put the microphones down and we end up having
twenty minutes, sometimes thirty minute conversations where it's not for air,
but it's just it's background info. I don't know how
many at the college level have that. I'm guessing it's
a small percentage. So that goes, that goes a long way.
(48:45):
And the people are good. I always say, don't dismiss happiness,
you know, if you think the grass isn't always greener somewhere.
So it's really been I've been.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Pretty lucky to work with people who are pretty.
Speaker 5 (48:56):
Good to be around.
Speaker 4 (48:57):
Well, you've been rewarded for a great job over three decades.
It's it's amazing, it really is. But at any rate, Matt,
good luck down in Tusca Loose. I've been by Bryan
Denny Stadium, never been in it. I've seen the statues
outside and did a couple of basketball games down there
two of the last three years. So the problem with
(49:17):
Tuscal Loose is we always stayed way outside. I can
find a Birmingham stay in Birminghamer in that area and
they got to drive into Tuscal Lousive. But it's a
neat little town. It really is.
Speaker 5 (49:27):
Yeah, I remember it not greatly, but remember a little
bit from I think it was two thousand and two,
two thousand and three. But yeah, this same thing with
us on this trip we're gonna be staying well outside
of t town as they call it. But it's going
to be like ninety three degrees human pretty to match
those eleven am kicks. But you know, we only have
to talk.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
We're not playing.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
So we had a pretty hot summer in Wisconsin. You
should be you'll be ready for it. Just hie ready.
I'll be hydrated, Wayne, do you hydier hydrator? And and
you know, try to try to actually drink some Gatorade too,
you know what I mean. I know the about it's
not has nothing to do with Gatorade, but just slip
a gatorat or two in there, you know, along with
it between your bourbon takes. Absolutely we'll do good luck
(50:11):
down there. Special thanks to our guest Andrew Brand, national
sports business analyst, our engineers Dave McCann, the executive producer
of the Leravi La Pey podcast on Iheart's Monica whitcop
for Matt, This is Wayne and we'll see you next
time on the lerra Vi La Pay podcast.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
The Laravian La Pay podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
Podcasts with hosts Way Larvy and Matt Lapey, with production
engineering by Dave McCann. The Laravian La Pey podcast is
presented by Potawatamy Casino Hotel. Your win is Waiting. Listen
to other episodes available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
I deal with hundreds of kids every year that say, hey, mister.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Brand I want to be an agent. I'm like, good
luck with that.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
In the NFL, NBA, you've got certification, you've got regulation,
you've got governance.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I am dealing with cousins, aunts, uncles, mothers, fathers, AAU, coaches, advisors,
and they have unrealistic demands. The problem is you don't know.
They say, well, Tennessee's offering this, Alabama's offering this. You
don't know, like this is like you're going in a
(00:34):
lot of times blind. I'm just trying to use my
experience and tack to try to get the best deals
for Louisville football and basketball while keeping us competitive with
our competitors.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
This is the Leravian La Pey Podcast, a production of
iHeartRadio Podcasts, with host Swayne Larvie, the voice of the
Green Bay Packers, and Matt Lapey, the voice of Wisconsin
Badgers football and men's basketball. The Laravie La pay Podcast
is presented by Potawatamy Casino Hotel. Your win is waiting.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Hi everybody, I'm.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Wayne Lara and I'm Matt Lapez.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Welcome to the Laravila Pey Podcast presented by potawata Be
Casino Hotel. Coming up on this episode, we visit with
former Green Day Packers executive Andrew Brandt, who's one of
the foremost reporters of sports businesses in the nation. Currently,
he's the executive director of the Morad Center at Villanova,
the author of the popular Sunday seven newsletter, and has
been a contributor and a columnist for Sports Illustrated. The
(01:35):
Packers and Badgers both off to unblemish starts, but this
is a big week with the pack hosting the Washington
Commanders on Thursday night and the Badger's traveling to Tuscaloosa
to take on the Crimson Tide on Saturday Day. We've
got good stuff for you this week on the Laravie
La Pey Podcast, brought to you by potawata Be Casino Hotel.
(01:55):
Your win is waiting and we welcome into the Laravie
La pay Podcast. Andrew Brant, longtime agent, NFL executive, capologist,
sports lawyer. Andrew, your list is too long. You and
I Let's go back to nineteen ninety nine. You and
I got to the Green Bay Packers at the same
(02:16):
time Bob Harlan was running that organization which was becoming
a world class organization out of a little pill box
in the north end zone of Field on the corner
of Lombardi Avenue and Ridge Road. And you could walk
into that building, Andrew, and walk up the stairs one
flight of stairs and walk straight into Bob's office and say, Bob,
(02:36):
how you doing the executive the executive he was the
president and CEO of the team at the time. That
doesn't happen in today's NFL, no way.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
And it's funny we just before we started recording you
and I realized we started the same time. But it
was a different NFL, certainly a different Green Bay Packers.
I know a lot of people have this reaction where
they're driving through the streets of Green Bay and oh,
my god, on your left is lambeau Field. But not
so much now as back then when you're seeing this
(03:07):
little stadium with just the lower bowl and as you said,
the annex where our offices were just kind of two
hallways where the front office of the Green Bay Packers
with below us the training room and then it connects
to the.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Locker room and then.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
The little pro shop, which was like a tiny footprint
of what the pro Shop is now. So it was
a different time and place and in my early years there,
as you know, a lot was focused on how do
we renovate, not build a new stadium, how do we
renovate to keep the legacy to history but modernize what's
(03:47):
going on with the NFL and all the stadium economics
that were going on. We've got to create revenue from
this building, not ten days a year, but three hundred
days a year.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
We've got to do that.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And then course in two thousand and one the Atrium, Curlyes,
meeting spaces, ice cream stores, and of course the Packer
Hall of Fame. It just created a different economics for
that stadium. And if you're going to compete in the NFL,
you can't just do it on TV revenues and national revenues.
(04:19):
You need some local revenue as well.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
It always seemed I'm trying to remember this right too, guys,
that you figured if there was one franchise who could
push something like this through relatively easily, it would be
the Green Bay Packers. But it was anything but what'n't
it touch and go with what Bob Harlan and everybody,
I mean, it wasn't exactly a given that all this was.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Going to happen.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, even me, man, I'm like, this will be a
slamdom And I'm like no. I went along with Bob Harlan,
along with O there's door to door. We need a
referendum for Brown County half sent sales tax. That's all
we needed. Sounds like that's all we needed. A lot
of people against it. People were against it, and I
(05:03):
had doors shut in my face. Wow, like you know,
all these millionaires blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I never thought we brought out with the threat of leaving,
because I know that was unrealistic. But we passed Matt
by the slimits to margins. I can't remember, but it was,
you know, maybe fifty point two percent, the forty nine
point eight percent or whatever it was to get that referendum,
just to fund a small portion of that renovation.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Yeah, And that changed everything around Oneida Street and all
kinds of businesses started looming on that avenue and it
changed the economics, it really did. And then Mark Murphy
and but he took it a step or two further.
That's but when the new renovation was done back in
two thousand and one. That's when the organization started to change.
(05:52):
That's when you couldn't walk up a flight of stairs.
Matt who walk into Bob Harlan's off and they say, hey,
how you doing? You know now you needed pass code,
you needed little cards and everything. Oh my gosh, it's different.
But hey, I guess it had to because we're talking
about a billion dollar industry here in relation to this
packer situation which is unique today. For example, teams are
(06:15):
selling a percentage of their team. The Raiders have done it.
The giants are going to sell ten percent of the
their team to an investor for a billion dollars. This
is where owners can make revenue on what they've got,
and you know the packers really they can't in that regard, right,
is this a major disadvantage for Green Bay as you
(06:36):
see at Andrew.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, it's interesting because I heard and still here all
the time from competitor teams, competitor fans. You can do
this stock sale, right, You can just all of a
sudden create money by selling two hundred dollars to fifty
three hundred dollars for a piece of paper. And by
the way, packer fans consider that their most prized possession.
(06:59):
Other fans think it's a waste of money in the paper.
Excuse me, I got a cold. Yesackers can't do that.
These teams are cashing out, like you just said, a
billion dollars for ten percent and giving up zero control
(07:19):
the new you know, minority investor in the Giants, they're
not gonna have any input on what players.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
The draft or to play or what plays.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
The Bills, the Eagles, the Dolphins, the Raiders have all
sold minorty investments. The thing is Matt and Wane. This
happened a couple of years ago, and it happened with
the Josh Harris purchase of the Washington Commanders, where this
guy who owns an NBA franchise and an NHL franchise
(07:50):
had a real troubling time putting together group to fund
a six billion dollar purchase of the Commanders. NFL owners
got together and one told me, we we can't count
on multi billionaires alone anymore. We need corporate money. So
the NFL in twenty twenty four allowed for private equity investment.
Now it's up to ten percent of a team, and
(08:12):
it's harsher rules than NBA and NHL. In Major League Baseball.
But that was a big step for the NFL. And
now we see these private equity corporate investments that are
going to continue to fund these teams, and yes, that's
not available for the packer.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Look at this is a very general question. In my
adult life, I've heard or thought at some point the
bubbles going to burst and pick your spart. I don't
know in my lifetime if I want to see that.
I mean, particularly with the NFL. I mean when you're
getting one hundred million people plus watching the Super Bowl
and in the twenty millions on a routine basis, I
(08:54):
don't see it happening to you.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
The power of the NFL never sees it too. We
heard about the concussion problem, we heard about the Kaepernick issue. Whatever,
you know, it seems to overcome that. The ratings sore
every week. It does seem too big to fail. I
(09:18):
don't know what could potentially be the threat for the NFL.
I'm thinking maybe a sports betting scandal, but it's hard
to believe that would even do it. I can't see
a major threat to its prosperity.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
You know about twenty years ago, and this is pursuing
to your point, I asked Jerry Reinsdorf. I was working
for one of his teams, the Bulls, at the time,
and I asked him, you know, boy, when is this
sports explosion? I said, how much more can we spend
on athletes and all this other stuff? He says, oh, no,
it's not coming to win it. It's live sports. And
(09:57):
because people don't usually the tape live sports, they watched
the commercials, and this entity, the sports in general on TV,
is just gonna get bigger. And he was exactly right.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Twenty years later, you think about it, there is no
live television. It's news and sports, and sports is much
more valuable than news.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
Yeah, Andrew, what kept you from sleeping a night more
working as an agent or working in the Packers' front office.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Times a year.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
You know, you have the free agency time, which is
you know, February March. With Green Bay, it's always tough.
We didn't do a lot in free agency, but there
were times like I felt that not only the team,
but the vast backer nation was counting on me to
(10:53):
get a player sign, get him extended, get a free
agent signed. I understood the magnitude. I wasn't awe by it,
but I certainly felt it. You know what's interesting is
people ask me the different roles, like what do you
prefer As an agent, You're really more like a fantasy
football owner. You got players on this team, that team,
(11:14):
that team. You don't care about the team, you really don't.
You care about your guys from a team.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
It's all about the team.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
And every contract you do is precedent for the next
contract you do, so it's much more as a team negotiator,
you're much more worried about precedent, fitting it in as
we know, to the cap, and then just sort of
you know, you like an agent, you like a player,
or he wants to do a special clause in the
(11:44):
contract and you just can't. And you say, I'd love to,
but if I do this, I'll have a line at
my door with every player, every agent, Like can't you
just put that in mind, because you know, players and
agents are like high school girls. All they do is
talk about what everyone else is getting, you know, and
(12:05):
as soon as you do something, I hear it from
agents like, oh my god, I got.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
To get that. So I was very conscious of that.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
And in that you know, language, people talk a lot
about language. It doesn't make the news a lot in contracts.
When I did Brett or Aaron's contract or Charles Woodson's
language was key because if I if I, obviously we're
giving them a ton of money. But if I got
the language I want, then every other conversation with language
(12:34):
was like, hey, Brett's got it, Aaron's got it, and
that's the end of discussion because no player is going
to say, well, I want different language than eron.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
So these are the kind of things you got to
think about, you know.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
I got to ask you about the Micah Parsonsteel. Yeah,
from a number of different views. Number one, how could
Dallas give up a guy like this? Number two, this
probably does happened in the Ted Thompson here. He's not
going to give up two first round right choices for
the pope, for God's sakes. Oh and by the way,
high school, just to balance your comment from earlier, high
(13:08):
school boys talked to. So just so that we are
covered with our critics, fuck me those sexist people talking
about girls talking. No guys talk to anyway. But I
dig reb Andrew, you're getting us in trouble. There will
be lawyers, as you say, go on here, Yes, we
(13:30):
got one here. So the mic at Parsons deal. You know,
I look at Brian goodukuz he fashions himself as a
Ted Thompson guy. But in observing him, and I talked
to him just the other day, observing him, I think
he's more Ron Wolf. He's going to take a shot
out there. His first year's GM, they were right in
(13:52):
the thick of the running to get Khalil Mack from
the Raiders. Reggie McKenzie was the executive, and you know
Reggie very well from our days. He was the executive
in Oakland at the time. And the reason the Bears
got Khalil Mack was because Reggie said, well, we think
their draft choices are going to be higher than yours.
He was wrong, because they got Khalil Mack of the
(14:13):
Bear's won twelve games, but at any rate, that was
the difference. So now six seven years later, here he is.
Micah Parsons comes available, and Goody goes in and throws
two first round draft choices at it. And Kenny Clark,
who's a big man in that Packers locker room, no question,
both on and off the field, and they pull off
the steal. How do you see Brian Goodakootz Is he
(14:37):
more Ron Wolf? Is he more Ted Thompson?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Great question, because he was there for both, as you know.
And I remember coming in and here's this area scout
from the southeast, and like, yeah, a nice guy, Brian Goodcuts,
seems like a good kid. And then he obviously grew
up in both those things. I was still shocked, Wayne,
I was totally shocked because the disciple of Ted and
(15:04):
just seeing the value of draft picks in green Bay.
You're never gonna see green Bay trade up in the
first round. They'd rather trade down. They want more picks.
That's been the idea with the Packers, more and more
and more picks.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
So it shocked me.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
But then I come back to the run wolf element.
You just can't get a guy like him. Teams are smart.
They're never gonna lead a premium player at a premium position,
at a premium age twenty six come free, whether it's
free agent or trade. It just these things don't.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Happen in sports.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
They just told you don't get this player available like
you get available free agents who are thirty thirty one
with great backgrounds or whatever, or average players at twenty six.
But wow, so I think it's you're right. Elements of
both were jumped on obviously Reggie White, but to be
(16:03):
fair to Ted, I was very involved in Charles Woodson.
You know, John Schneider probably led that with Ted's buy in,
and we got that done.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
There are you know, and.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Of course Xavier mccon, well that was after Ted, but
they're Julius Pepper's. There have been other ones, but this
one is a trade different than free agency. And you know,
we'll get to what you saw on Sunday, but I
just look at it and say, okay, this is very
unpacker like, and the contract is very unpacker like. But
(16:43):
there are moments in a career that are defining, and
you know, we're one game in.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
We'll see how it goes well.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
The other thing, Andrew, I've often said, front offices will
tell you what they think of their football team by
the way they do business. I mean, players they bring in.
Backup quarterback will tell you a lot. If you got
a guy who's never to throw in a passage, your
backup quarterback, your front office says, this isn't our years,
it's not time to invest in that insurance of policy.
A move like this does this say to you on
(17:12):
the outside looking in that the Packers think they're real
close and this player might push them over the top.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Absolutely, you know, Wayne, there were a couple of years
in my nine and a half almost ten years there
where we felt that.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I felt that.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Well, the toughest one was the fourth and twenty sixth
year to the Eagles, because I knew, you know, we
had the team, and I think Carolina went on to
the Super Bowl against New England.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
We had the team.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
We had the team, and I think there was one
other year where Michael Vick came in on a snowy
night and beat us in the playoffs with the Falcons,
and we all said we had the team. Some years
you don't, you know, you don't. So I totally believe that,
and I know teams talk that way. So you're absolutely
right that the cognitive sentie of the Packers, which includes
(18:01):
Brian and now ed policy Russ Baull, got together and said,
this is our chance. Now again two numbers. That is
huge for the Packers. That just shows you, as Brian said.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
The level of the player you mentioned one game in
But this is like always joke in college everybody met
makes final judgments twelve times a year. Evan how their
team does in the NFL at seventeen times. But I
listen to a good friend of mine, my broadcast partner
at Badger Games, Mark Tauscher, and one game in, but
he has a feeling, particularly with the parts and his acquisition,
(18:37):
that this team, the makeup of it could be a
little bit different than what we've seen, and that it's
a defense first oriented team. Obviously, we've had Hall of
Fame Aaron Wilby. I would think five years after he retires,
far has already in. Do you guys see it the
same way though? I mean the difference what could put
these guys over the top is what they have defensively.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
First one game in, we have to yes, check back
in December, but yes, yeah, that was impress I mean, Wayne,
you guys got a front row seat.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I mean, that was so impressive.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Just you know, if it's the same team that we
saw last year with Detroit, I mean, oh my god,
it was just like Detroit. We did to Detroit what
Detroit did to a lot of teams last year. You know,
another big challenge coming up in a couple of days.
Obviously the schedule makers make it tough right away, but yeah,
(19:36):
that is a strong d And you know, I think
when we talk about Parsons, you know, the obvious point
is making.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Other people better.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
It was proven right away, and those are the superstars.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
It's not just the wow plays like where they keep
showing of him running down Jared Goff, but it's the
it's the making other guys better. And you know van
Ness has to be thinking in the lord and some
of these other guys like, oh my god, my game
is going to get so much better.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yeah, he just meant. It made Rashaun Garry a double
digit ZAC guy, maybe Lucas van Ness as well. And
in the secondary, you know, their cover their corners are good, tough,
physical players. They will come up and support against the run,
which I love. As pure cover guys, they're probably average
or thereabouts in that regard. I think that's a fair
(20:29):
assessment across the league. That's what they are. But Micah
Parsons makes them a little better than that, and that's
the whole effect you're talking about. We're visiting with former
Green Bay Packers executive Andrew Brandt, who's one of the
foremost reporters of sports business in the nation. Andrew, I
wanted to ask you, and I know Matt's involved the
college game, and we wanted to ask you about NIL.
(20:51):
You're involved with Louisville, you know, consulting them, that type
of thing. You watch it very closely, obviously in your
role as a sports business. And the list is this sustainable?
Is what they passed in Congress? Is this kind of
the framework that we're going to be operating under? And
where are the teams going to or are schools and
(21:13):
organizations and programs, as they say in the SEC, going
to be able to circumpute this to get an advantage.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Well, let's start with it's not an act of Congress.
It's it's a it's a legal settlement, so excuse me.
Over the last several years.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
There was litigation against the NCAA.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
We finally into July had a settlement, and the settlement says, okay,
we're going to backpay all the players who didn't get NIL.
And the most important thing me looking at it is
that we've got a revenue share cap, just like the NFL,
just like the NBA, just like baseball are not baseball hockey.
(21:52):
We've got a cap and the cap is twenty point
five million for all sports some schools have twenty sports,
some schools have thirty sports. Obviously, the money's primarily going
to go to football and men's basketball. So now we've
got some level of a level playing field, although you
can still supplement with true nil.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So the twenty point five is.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Coming from the school directly, not dealing with any kind
of endorsements, just from the school. But you can still
do endorsements. But the potential for cheating is supposedly now
run by the NCAA, and they're firm the CSSE to
judge nil deals whether they're true fair market value or
(22:37):
they're shams to get her on the gap. It's a
work in progress. With my background, I've been reached a
couple of schools, reached out. Louisville's athletic director I used
to work with at Villanova, and I've come in there
and tried to be a voice, a strateique advisor for
the NL and negotiate some of the bigger deals for
(22:59):
Louisville football and basketball and Matt and Wayne. What a
world there is no there is no agent regulation in
college and I deal with hundreds of kids every year
that say, hey, mister brand I want to be an agent.
I'm like, goodwuck with that. In the NFL, NBA, you've
(23:20):
got certification, you've got regulation, you've got governance.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Nothing.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I am dealing with cousins, aunts, uncles, mothers, fathers, AAU, coaches, advisors,
and they have unrealistic demands. The problem is you don't know.
They say, well, Tennessee's offering this, Alabama's offering this. You
don't know, like this is like you're going in a
(23:47):
lot of times blind. I'm just trying to use my
experience and tack to try to get the best deals
for Louisville football and basketball while keeping us competitive with
our competitors. It is a tough road to navigate that.
Right now, your question is the big one, is this sustainable? Well,
(24:08):
it's sustainable if everyone plays by the rules and we
have a twenty cap this year, a twenty three million
dollar cap next year, and so on and so on.
It's not sustainable if teams don't play the by the rules.
If SEC teams instead of twenty point five million are
paying forty million. With all these whether their sham deals
(24:32):
or not to be evaluated, then you're just dealing with
what you had before. And there's a two tiered system,
and the other schools don't have liquidity to compete, and
here we are.
Speaker 6 (24:44):
So if this.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Valuing nil deals is real and schools treated as real
and don't fake nil, and you know we have a
real governance system them, but it's hard to know right now.
We're still in the ground for.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
And the other thing too, Wayne. This went into affect
July at one. So it's been said that a lot
of schools there's been a lot of front loading. So
this year it could still be out of balance. It
could be select number of schools with a much higher
budget for NIL for your third party nil before and
then after July. First you have to go through a clearinghouse.
But I always go back Andrew with this, and I'm
(25:26):
not an attorney, so I'm glad we have one here.
But you always say there will be lawyers. Let's say
that as it stands now, a clearing house can reject
if I'm a star quarterback in the local car dealership says, hey, Matt,
here's five hundred thousand dollars to do, not a ton.
The clearing house will put a thumbs down on that.
You resubmit the offer, and if you get rejected again,
(25:46):
you go to arbitration. I'm just wondering, again, there will
be lawyers if I get rejected twice as arbitration another
thumbs down. What's to say that I won't have a
pretty good attorney to say, oh, wait a minute. If
they think that's a fair range of compensation, there are
terms in the clearinghouse. Who's to say I can't get that.
That's my question for it's my concern too. A couple
(26:10):
things you brought up there. Let's just unpack front loading.
Before July one the cap went into effect. Yes, we
did that at Louisville. A lot of schools did that,
but to the level. That's where the disparity happened. I
know of at least one SEC school that front loaded
their entire football roster, so zero.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
On the cap, so they spent. In other words, these
players got their money before the season even started. If
they want to walk away with their a million dollars.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
They can.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
And even if we have the liquidity, I could not
suggest that. You know, there is the arbitration process. So
I think some of the people are overplaying my line.
There will be lawyers because there is an arbitration, and
here four months we have not seen someone actually take
to court whether their nil deal is fair market value
(27:07):
or not. But I go back to my point, are
people taking this seriously? In other words, what if a
player just doesn't report like he's doing some for a
car dealer gets half a million dollars, he decides I'm
not going to report it, Like we don't know, like
do you know, like if they see him with a
(27:30):
car or is someone going to report them? Like these
are the things that's so hard.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I don't know the answer.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
You hope that everyone plays by the rules. We kind
of know that's not going to happen, but you know,
there are you know, we can talk about this, Cody Campbell.
Everyone's trying to come up with the the allowance for something.
But what people come up to me, and I'm sure you.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Guys feel this way.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
They're a big problem with college sports right now is
the transfer port because it's unlimited from lawyers. Lawyers went
to court and said, hey, Joe the engineering student, he
can transfer every year. Sally the music student, she can
transfer every year. Why can't the athletes and the judges
(28:18):
by and large have said you're right.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So now we have new.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Teams every year and transfer portal is to me more
stressful than NFL free agency because it's just ongoing and
this is where we are, so we're looking for.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
Solutions just to follow up on that. It seems to me,
in essence, athletes today are independent contractors. They're getting rev
share nil deals, but the NCAA is adam it to
declare them as university employees or universities are reluctant to
say that, no, they are employees. Isn't a pipe stream
(28:58):
to think that there could be at some point some
kind of collective bargaining here? I mean? And is that
maybe the best, if not only, solution in the long run.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, I'm asked that a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
And as a sports lawyer, you obviously prefer collective bargaining,
and that's what we study with sports law and these
cbas between NFL players NFL and there are a couple
issues here. First of all, if you're bargaining, who's bargaining?
Is it the college football players? Is it the college
(29:32):
basketball players? Is it the college swimmers? And who are
they bargaining against? Is it the NCAA, is it the conference?
Is it the school? It sounds easier than when you
start to think about it. And then you know, I'm
speaking from a school angle here. If it's just giving
(29:54):
employment rights to football and basketball players, I get it,
that could potentially work. But these schools have six hundred
and seven hundred student athletes swimming, diving, lacrosse, soccer, field hockey, tennis, golf.
I mean, if you're going to give minimum salary protections
and overtime and workers comp to all the field hockey
(30:17):
and swimming and diver, like, it's just not sustainable. So
I think the collective bargaining negotiations are a way. But
if you start drilling down, like, how do you figure
that out?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, good point.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
No question. Andrew Brandt is with us. He is the
executive director of the Morad Center at Villanova. Andrew, tell
us about your your endeavor as a teacher and the
kids you're dealing with and where they're going and what
their views are on all of this.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
You know, I think I think you know this, Wayne,
But when I left the Packers, I didn't want to
work for another team.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I got a couple of calls, and.
Speaker 6 (30:58):
I just I really.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Wanted to do two things in media, do one thing basically,
but in both media and academia, which is sort of
peel back the curtain show people what really happens in
the inner workings of sports in a way that I
saw was not being done. And that's what I've been
doing in the past thirteen fourteen years, and it's been
a great ride, you know, where I can sort of
(31:21):
tell people this is how it really works, and this
is what my experiences are, and that's the way I teach.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
That's the way I do media.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Sort of.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
A lot of academia is theoretical, and the way I
do it is more practical, experience based. I just mentioned
a lot of students want to be agents. I sort
of disabuse them of that notion or just make them
aware how hard it is. I'll do like a role
play right away. I'll say, Okay, I think.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
You're an agent. I deem you an agent. I'm a player.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Why would I sound with you? You know, why would
I send with you? So these are the kind of
things you work on with students. Villanova gave me a
lot of leash, you know. They just I was teaching
at Wharton University of Pennsylvania and they said, hey, we'll
make a program in your image, and that's the image
I want. So I have sports law teams negotiating business.
(32:14):
I have sports law concentration students and just trying to
make them prepared. The problem with sports as everyone knows
a lot of interest, not a lot of jobs on
the other side, So patience is the key. But everyone's
looking for a way to sort of separate themselves from
(32:36):
the competition, and being my part of my program hopefully
helps that.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
You teach at Villanova consulting at Louisville Business Is Sports
podcast Sunday seven.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
You do a daily hit, a daily video.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
You're really slacking, Andrew. That's a pretty full plague, you
guy going.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, now you're explaining why I got this cold. Keep
coughing it.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
You know, like I said when I left the Packers,
I didn't want to quote unquote full time job. I
kind of do have one, but again it's more on
my terms and doing what.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I want to do.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Obviously, you know, I'm into fitness. I'm into seeing my family,
my boys grow up as they have so crafting the
life that I've been able to do has been really rewarding.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Yeah, well, listen, congratulations on everything, Andrew. We can't thank
you enough for taking time out with us. It's It's
always great to have you on and we get a
little smarter after talking with you, that is for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yes, sir, I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I appreciate the work you're doing and I can't I
got to hear your call the other day when when
Mike co was introduced, that must have been something.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
It was amazing, you know what. It else was good
about that day At halftime, they're honoring the Super Bowl
forty five unions. When Mike McCarthy came out, he was
the last one I introduced, and the crowd just a
tremendous ovation for him, and I think he was really
surprised and touched, you know. But yeah, it was great.
Were mission Green Bay?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, I come back every couple of years.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I was back for the Houston game, which was a
white out game, supposed to be cold.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
It was eighty degrees last year.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
And uh, it's a great day, great day.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
And then I'll look maybe some sometime later this year,
I'll be I'll let you guys.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Know, let me know. Yeah, we definitely love to host you.
That'd be great. Andrew, thank you, Pat a lot of me.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Casino Hotel, your win is waiting. We wait it sounded
and looked glorious at lambeau Field on Sunday. I mean,
that's a big boy opener. You got the Detroit Lions
and till everybody knows how good that you know they are.
I know they have two new coordinators, but not just
to win as the Packers did, but to dominate. You
(34:48):
could argue the final score was deceiting. It just great start.
As you said, the Parses project. I appreciate that. I'm
an Alan Parses fan. We could just call it the
Micah Parsons Project.
Speaker 6 (35:02):
So was that what you added by there?
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Bringing that? You know, it added a little bit. I
was just dating myself, you know, I loved it.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
I felt like we're getting ready for Ray Clay to
introduce from North Carolina the six Michael Jordan. But it
is amazing, and you know, we talk about this with Andrew.
It's not just the ability of Micah Parsons individually, but
and as you said, like Rashaw, Gary and others, Lucas
(35:32):
van Ness could benefit immensely from this. It's one game,
I know, and we'll react, but there's a lot of
promise with how good this defense could be.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Yeah, and Jeff Hafley does a marvelous job of executing
that defense, and the Lions dominated time of possession. They
had the ball over thirty five minutes. They ran sixty
some plays. The Packers ran forty seven. But when you
looked at the numbers in the end, the Lions didn't
even get three hundred yards offense. And that's number one
offense from last year. I know this year is different,
and this is why we tell you, folks, every year
(36:05):
is different. We don't know what we're gonna get. But
the Lions were the top offense a year ago. I
think they'll be one of the top offenses again and
this year. But that was a great effort by the
Packers defense. And I thought Jordan love Matt. We haven't
talked much about him, but I thought he looked pretty solid.
He was just solid. He was for the most part
on the money with his throws and hit a couple
of big plays. And the Packers built a seventeen to
(36:27):
three lead without being able to run the football. I
mean they had like eight yards on six carries on
the ground at halftime, which very unlike what their team
is supposed to be. So it was a good win
in a lot of different ways. And now it's on
to Washington and this game. You know, this is what
worries me about a game like this on a Thursday night,
(36:48):
this early in the season. Okay, let's be honest, Nobody
in the NFL. None of these teams are in midseason form.
None of these teams have done a lot of hitting.
They're basically playing four quarters of the football for the
first time since last year. So no one's quite ready
for this. So you get the opener, okay, and then
(37:09):
you got to play a game in five days. I mean,
you know how sore it is when you go back
to the gym if you've been off for a week
or so. Man, good second day, I can't walk.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Yeah, my workouts are so gruelling too, So yeah, I
get that. But Waite, I always come back because I
think you bring a perspective that very few others do
in the media around here, because it's you're either the
greatest or everybody's got to get benched or fired. And
it was a wonderful deck. It was a terrific game
(37:39):
for the Green Bay Packers. But I remind myself, let's
watch this team through September, get into October. And then
right you kind of find out what you have.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Yep, yeah, no, Matt, You're exactly right. And the one
caveat to that view, and that's you and I are
on track with that view. The one caveat is injuries. Okay,
going to get injured. You know who's going to get injured,
not how many, but who and how long will they
be out? And that can change your season, That can
change the whole outlook of your season. But you know,
(38:11):
we can't, we don't. We can't predict that. We just
know they're going to be injuries. And in fact, the
Packers going into this week will probably be a little
bit shorthanded. Zach Tom suffered a hip hip injury, you know,
Bo Melton went down with a shoulder injury. Not sure
on their status for this week's game and short notice
like this, but at any rate, it'll be interesting to
(38:31):
see how it all pans out. You're exactly right. We
don't know in the NFL boys and girls until about October,
and then we have an idea because they finally have
played some games. Now you know who's injured, who isn't injured.
Now you get the chance. You know, the Eagles last
year they started out the season. You know, they beat
the Packers and and really the Eagles could have blown
that game in Brazil opened but their mistakes, their turnovers
(38:53):
and fumbles and things like that really made the game
a little closer than it had to be. They were
two and two going into the by last year and
not looking real good and came out of the by
and just found their form and just motored to the
super Bowl. So just get through the first month. About
three and one would be great. Two and two you're
not out of anything. If you're all in four, you
(39:16):
got a problem then, or even one of three. But
if you just come out, you know, break even Packers,
then will get a buy and then you got your season.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
And again I'm kind of breaking the four game rule here,
but I think there's a lot of optimism with the
Packer fans about how Green Bay started. I would think
with the Minnesota Vikings to come back the way they
did on Monday Night in Chicago, Jj McCarthy throws up
picks six and things really could have gone off the rails.
But he shows maybe some of that National championship pedigree
(39:46):
that he had his Michigan's quarterback A couple of years ago.
Again one game, but pretty impressive for the Vikings in
a guy making his first NFL start in his hometown area.
And they made a fairly big deal about that broadcast.
But that was pretty impressive poise, was it not from
Minnesota's quarterback?
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Yeah, And first off, yes, you're correct, And I think
a lot of it has to do with the coaching.
Ovis Okay, there's nobody better than Kevin O'Connell. There's nobody
better running a defense than what they have in Minnesota
right now. And I think that coaching that whole first half,
(40:27):
Minnesota's defense didn't do a whole lot. They were setting
the bearers up and then they started blitzing in the
second half, and that all of a sudden, Caleb Williams
wasn't very comfortable or accurate. You know, same thing with
O'Connell and the quarterback. O'Connell said, hey, listen, you're going
to lead us to a comeback victory here, and by god,
he did. And I'm sure that that sets the tone
(40:48):
for Minnesota. There's no doubt about that, because the question
they had was can you win with this quarterback? You
saw him in college. I don't know how much you
saw him, Matt, what were your impressions of McCarthy.
Speaker 5 (40:58):
You didn't see him a lot here was Consin did
not play them in twenty twenty three. They last saw
him in twenty twenty two, and it was a blowout game.
The thing about McCarthy because Michigan those last couple of
years that Harball was there was such a run oriented team.
I mean they had a great offensive line and they
would just pound you into submission. It was as though
(41:20):
they didn't ask him to chuck it thirty thirty five
times a game. But the thing about him when at
the college level is that when they did, he delivered.
He got the ball rough supposed to go. He was
not a mistake. He just didn't make a ton of mistakes,
didn't make many at all. So while the volume of
pass attempts, you know, they were as a run heavy team,
(41:42):
you didn't see a lot, But he was good when
they asked him to throw the ball. So that was
I think there was a lot of and will continue
to be questions I think about McCarthy because of the
system he played under in ann Arbor, But he showed
it in college and he certainly showed it on Monday night.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
But yeah, he could.
Speaker 5 (42:02):
When he needs to deliver it, he can do that.
So that was your kudos to him, and that were
you know. And and the Bears fans are in disarray
for the next few days and then.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
They maybe get over it.
Speaker 5 (42:12):
Wayne, we have both been blessed in our careers to
be around to work games and in venues, you know,
iconic venues across the country. This will be my first
time going to Bryant Denny Stadium in Tuscal, Lusa, where
the Badgers are playing Alabama. Bo Ryan team took a
basketball They played a basketball game down there many many
(42:35):
years ago during the holiday break and different vibe. The
program was good, not nearly as good as it is
now in Tuscal Lusa. I don't know if you've ever
been to Bryant Denny Stadium, but one hundred thousand will
be there and just a little bit of a tougher
test in story for the Badgers after the first two games.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
So far, so good for the Badgers. It sounded like
listening to you and Mark Tauscher, and boy Tausch does
a great job. His comments are so timely. I've had
a chance to listen to most of your two broadcasts,
because I've been I don't know, going somewhere from Green
Bay to somewhere and whatever. But you know, he does
a great job, and you guys really sound great together.
(43:15):
And I mean that sincerely from what I can tell, Okay,
took care of Badgers have taken care of business. How
much of a measuring stick is this game? Because Alabama
came out and laid an egg opening week, lost you know,
pretty convincingly, and then you know last week took care
of business at home? How big a game is this
for the Badgers finding out who they are or how
(43:36):
far they might go.
Speaker 5 (43:37):
Well, it's such a you know, I hate that it's
a cliche. It's such a massive opportunity, but it is is.
I think that there's a lot of skepticism on the
fan base about the Badgers right now because the last
few years have not been up to their standards. We
all know that can change in a game, you know,
if they could do something that nobody believes they can
(43:57):
do and go down to Tuscaloosa and win the game.
But I think really they just you need to be
more competitive in these kind of games. They were not
really competitive in the game against Alabama. They were for
most of the first half, but then things you know,
unraveled and it turned into a blowout. When and we
know how to into the regular season. For the Badgers,
(44:20):
I do think in Tuscaloosa, Wayne, there's there's some nervousness
as well. Kalin de bores in his second year there.
The standard it was so high with Nick Saban all
the national championships, and they've lost a few games. They
have the audacity of losing four games last year. They
were handled by Florida State in Tallahassee a couple of
(44:41):
weeks ago. But for the Badgers, I think it's a
big test. Specifically, they really wanted to shore up their
run defense. It's been very good, albeit against non power
for competition. If this defense, and I think this defense
could be pretty solid, Wayne, if they could hold up
and make it difficult for Alabama to run the ball,
(45:04):
and if they can continue to get pressure on the quarterback,
which they have done in the first two games, which
they did not do well at all last year, that
I think this defense can keep them in the game.
The problem right now, Wayane is the offensive line. If
they've had to shuffle the deck, the right tackle was
the left tackle last week and that's going to continue.
The right guard became the right tackle. The only one
(45:26):
to stay home was Joe Brunner at left guard. The
center has been The center was art starting center didn't
play last week. As we record this, they'll know what
his status is going to be moving forward. It doesn't
matter what the system is. If your offensive line isn't right,
you're going to have a problem. And that's been i
think something that bad luck, injuries and all of this
(45:47):
lack of depth that's held them back a little bit.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Yeah. Absolutely. Hey, listen, you were inducted officially into the
Wisconsin Hall of Fame Dona Madison last Friday. Congratulations number one.
And we knew this, we've known this for a while now,
but just to go in and what was that experience like?
Speaker 6 (46:06):
It was? It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
They we do Q and A and so Mark Tauscher
was the one asking me the question. So it was,
you know, uh, he had to get at a couple
of pokes, which I was I'm glad he did. You know,
we have to they have to have a little bit
of a roast in there, but it was it was
so it was humbly man. I mean, you know we
both have been you know, with with the WBA Hall
of Fame and all of that, you start thinking about
(46:29):
so many other people.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
It was.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
It was great for me.
Speaker 5 (46:31):
I had a lot of my close friends were there
Friday night, little after party, Saturday night, Mark put together
at dinner with Brooks Bollinger, the former quarterback, really Kirk
Penny on the basketball staff obviously great, great player. And
Evan Cohen who way back when interned for US and
now he's a big star at ESPN doing the unsportsmanlike
(46:53):
show on radio and television. So we've remained very close
through the years. So Saturday night after the game was
a lot of fun as well, But it was you
just start thinking about everybody else because I was lucky
because if these programs, football and basketball didn't grow the
way they did, like, am I gonna be honored?
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Probably not.
Speaker 5 (47:11):
So it was really the work of everybody else. I
just I was the guy with a lucky seat to
narrate a good chunk of their history.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Yeah, well you're you're false modesty here like false so
false so false modesty. No, you well deserved, You've been
there for thirty years. Absolutely an institution. And you know
what's great, Matt, is that the school, the or the
department that you've worked for all these years really appreciates you.
(47:41):
And that's that's just something as a broadcaster you don't
get everywhere, and I think that's great you and Davennett
in Chicago Northwestern appreciates him so much. He's part of
their hall of fame as well, and that makes such
a difference as a broadcaster. You know, when the people
you work for really support you. Yeah, it's so important.
Speaker 5 (48:01):
And I think a lot of my colleagues in college
there might be a tinge of jealousy because we are
granted a fair amount of access and in college a
lot of those programs are like Ford Knox and I'm
sure it's much like that in the NFL as well.
But you know, Barry Alvarez, Brettbee, the Paul Chris look
fickle now is very you know, And Dave mccanner, engineer,
(48:24):
knows this because we record our various programs and then
we put the microphones down and we end up having
twenty minutes, sometimes thirty minute conversations where it's not for air,
but it's just it's background info. I don't know how
many at the college level have that. I'm guessing it's
a small percentage. So that goes, that goes a long way.
(48:45):
And the people are good. I always say, don't dismiss happiness,
you know, if you think the grass isn't always greener somewhere.
So it's really been I've been.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Pretty lucky to work with people who are pretty.
Speaker 5 (48:56):
Good to be around.
Speaker 4 (48:57):
Well, you've been rewarded for a great job over three decades.
It's it's amazing, it really is. But at any rate, Matt,
good luck down in Tusca Loose. I've been by Bryan
Denny Stadium, never been in it. I've seen the statues
outside and did a couple of basketball games down there
two of the last three years. So the problem with
(49:17):
Tuscal Loose is we always stayed way outside. I can
find a Birmingham stay in Birminghamer in that area and
they got to drive into Tuscal Lousive. But it's a
neat little town. It really is.
Speaker 5 (49:27):
Yeah, I remember it not greatly, but remember a little
bit from I think it was two thousand and two,
two thousand and three. But yeah, this same thing with
us on this trip we're gonna be staying well outside
of t town as they call it. But it's going
to be like ninety three degrees human pretty to match
those eleven am kicks. But you know, we only have
to talk.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
We're not playing.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
So we had a pretty hot summer in Wisconsin. You
should be you'll be ready for it. Just hie ready.
I'll be hydrated, Wayne, do you hydier hydrator? And and
you know, try to try to actually drink some Gatorade too,
you know what I mean. I know the about it's
not has nothing to do with Gatorade, but just slip
a gatorat or two in there, you know, along with
it between your bourbon takes. Absolutely we'll do good luck
(50:11):
down there. Special thanks to our guest Andrew Brand, national
sports business analyst, our engineers Dave McCann, the executive producer
of the Leravi La Pey podcast on Iheart's Monica whitcop
for Matt, This is Wayne and we'll see you next
time on the lerra Vi La Pay podcast.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
The Laravian La Pay podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
Podcasts with hosts Way Larvy and Matt Lapey, with production
engineering by Dave McCann. The Laravian La Pey podcast is
presented by Potawatamy Casino Hotel. Your win is Waiting. Listen
to other episodes available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
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