John Kuhn, two-time Super Bowl champion, joins Wayne & Matt

Wayne and Matt talk with two-time Super Bowl champion and Packers Radio Network sideline reporter, John Kuhn.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I remember in twenty eighteen that was I like to
call it my gap year where I wasn't really playing,
but I wasn't really working yet. I was kind of
figuring things out. I was still training, And when it
was about August, I was watching this August go by,
and I was thinking myself, Man, if somebody brings me
in right now, somebody gives me a call right now,
it'd be really hard to say no to Because we're

(00:20):
already into preseason games. I know the schedule is going
to be easy from here on out. Over the summer,
I had talked to some teams and I thought, eah,
I don't know if I want to do this. I
don't know if I want to go, you know, bang
my head for this team.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
This is the Larravian La Peye Podcasts, a production of
iHeartRadio Podcasts with hosts Wayne Larraviy, the voice of the
Green Bay Packers, and Matt Lape, the voice of Wisconsin
Badgers football and men's basketball. The Larreavian La Peye podcast
is presented by UW Credit Union.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Here for every U.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Hi, everybody, I'm Wayne Larrabee and I'm Matt Lope. On
this episode of the pay podcast we welcome forward NFL
All Pro pullback John Cohon, sideline reporter on the Packers
Radio Network, to the program this weekend. The college football
season may have come to an end in Madison as
the Badgers fell to Minnesota in the battle FOROT Paul
Bunyan's acts. And we've got a lot of other things

(01:17):
coming up now as we'll transition to college basketball in
this next week, a big game coming up in Madison.
Biggest games of the season are just ahead for the
Packers starting Thursday night in Botown, and we'll discuss stay tuned,
good stuff coming up on the Lerrevian Will Pay podcast.
Ready to give fees the stiff arm uw Credit Union
can help because since nineteen thirty one they've been committed

(01:41):
to eliminating fees for members. Goin today at UWCU dot org,
ensured by NCUA terms and conditions apply. We welcome in
John Kuhn, a two times Super Bowl champion, former NFL
All Pro full back who now spends his Sunday afternoons
on the sidelines for the pack Here's Radio Network. John,

(02:01):
First and foremost, thank you for doing this for us.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
My pleasure. Fun to jump on with two Hall of
Famers here, man, I just love chopping it up with you.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Guys, and a Hall of Famer to be. It's when
not if with that with mistery join inter the green
Bay Packers Hall of Fame. It's my hot take from
Madison for that look, I think it's when not as hey,
I got let me throw this one out right away, John,
that last you know, we're on the Sunday Night game
in the snow Buffalo in San Francisco. What was the
most fun game in terms of weather conditions you ever

(02:32):
played in your time in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
We were lucky enough to get a game very similar
to what was Sunday Night Football at two thousand and seven,
So I guess it was the two thousand and eight January.
We had a game against the Seattle Seahawks. We had
just gotten to buy. We were kind of a surprise
team that year, and we had gotten to buy and
got Seattle to come to us. And boy, let me
tell you, the snow that started to fall, the biggest

(02:57):
heaviest snowflakes saw in your life, and we fell down
quick in that ball game. A couple of turnovers led
into two quick touchdowns. There By the Seahawks. We were
down by fourteen, but we came just roaring back and
ended up beating them pretty heavily. A big day out
of Ryan Grant two hundred yards and just playing football,

(03:17):
running the football in those types of condition, I mean,
there's nothing better. You got guys slipping and sliding around.
The hits are kind of everybody's pad douvels a little
bit higher because they got to send o their gravity
a little bit better. But you just feel like a
child again. You feel like a kid playing in the
backyard over Thanksgiving weekend.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
Yeah, every time I see a game like that game
in Buffalo on Sunday night, I think of that two
thousand and seven playoff game John, one of the one
of the most fun games we've ever done. And the
interesting thing about that and Matt, I don't know, I've
probably told you this story before our listeners. You know,
at halftime, I've got to go to a Bulls game

(03:55):
the next day in Atlanta. So I'm flying out a
Milwaukee first thing in the morning. I'm thinking, oh my god,
this is snowmageddon up here. It's just piling up. So
at halftime I called my wife Julie and I said,
what's it doing down there in Milwaukee. She says doing nothing?
I said, what it's doing nothing? And this was one
of those some meteorologist explained this to me. It was

(04:19):
a weird phenomenon that it really only snowed within a
certain part of Wisconsin right there in Green Bay, And
in fact, driving home after the game that night, by
the time he got to Sheboygan, there was no snow
at all. It was amazing. I was just that one
parcel of Wisconsin that that snowstorm erupted in. But what

(04:40):
a fun game that was. I was talking with Jim
Leonard about this couple of years ago. There was a
Wisconsin football game. It was cold, rainy, like thirty degree
not thirty, maybe forty degrees, and he said that was
probably one of the toughest conditions he's ever dealt with
as a player or a coach. That said, dude, you
played a Buffalo. The difference was snow. Give me the snow.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Just watching the Bills the other night, I can't say
the same about the forty nine ers, I guess, but
it was the same thing, John, what you're talking about.
They're just out there having fun. Receivers lateraling back to
Josh Allen. He's running into the end zone. I mean,
that's that's just great, great to watch if you're at home.
Props to the fans in Buffalo, but I guess you
live in Buffalo. You know. That's the drill that was.

(05:25):
That was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, it's funny that you mentioned that, Matt. You know,
we had a bunch of family in my in laws
for you know, for Thanksgiving, brother in law and he's
walking to the car with me, just just a short
one minute walk from like the grocery store to the car. He's,
how do you do it up here? It's so cold.
But we get conditioned for this stuff. We get conditioned
for this weather and we forget about it. I'm walking

(05:48):
around in a long sleeved T shirt and a vest on.
He's got two jackets on, a beanie gloves and he's freezing.
And you know, that's the way Buffalo is, That's the
way Green Bay is. We we live, we work, we sleep,
we practice in this weather, and we get accustomed to
plan in this stuff. Now I will attest when it snows,
that's a good side. That means a it's not gonna

(06:10):
be freezing cold, it's gonna be somewhere around thirty and b.
It means it's not rain annoying it. It's the best
of both worlds. If you get rain at about forty degrees,
that's terrible. If you get zero degrees, that's terrible. You
get thirty, it can snow all day because it's normally,
you know, a kind of mild temperature for you in

(06:32):
the wintertime.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Exactly what Jim Leonard said. Exactly.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
You know, guys, since we started with that snow Globe
game in nineteen two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight.
January two thousand and eight, John, you mentioned how much
fun it was to play in the snow that Saturday
against Seattle. The following Sunday was the NFC Championship game
and it was in Green Bay and one of the

(06:58):
coldest games in the history of lambeau Field. You played in it,
What was that like?

Speaker 1 (07:04):
That was? That was brutal? It was it was so
difficult to really stay in the game because when you
got to the sideline you had to bundle up so much.
You had to be in front of the heaters because
if you didn't, I mean you were done. People say, oh,
when you're playing the game. You don't really feel it,
not at this extreme. When it's that extreme. I can

(07:26):
remember bre Farv not being able to really get the
words out after four or five plays in a row
because his lips were actually freezing and he was getting
icicles on his beard and mustache. He actually couldn't get
a clear concise you know, verbiage of the play, and
you know, when you get to the sideline you try.
I remember this is back when they used to have

(07:48):
those old benches, right, and those old benches used to
have little spots that you could click your heels in
and it would blow heat on your feet. Well, if
you ran over to the sideline and the offense is
on the field and your toes it's a freezing you
would slide your toes in a little bit into those holes.
But if you slid it in too far, that little
trap door would catch you on your foot. Well, I

(08:08):
ran over after regulation and stuck both toes in there
and got clipped in and right in front of the
whole entire crowd as our captains were taking the field
to do the coin toss for overtime, icked on my
back and I couldn't get up because my feet are
stuck in the heated benches in those little trap doors.
I'd have somebody come over push the door open so

(08:29):
I could slide my feet out and get out. Yeah,
it's a mess. It's a mess tried playing these temperatures.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
John. One thing I like to ask guys who played
the game. And I think I've asked Toucher this over
the years too, but want to ask you. I mean,
it wasn't all that long ago that you retired. How
long and maybe you're still processing it now, how long
was it before you got past that where there's a
certain time of year your body you're thinking, okay, let's go,
we got training camp, we've got all this. Was it

(08:57):
a year or two like where you're still trying to
shake that off playing football your entire life and now
that part of your life is over. I maybe you're thinking, Okay,
you get into late July, early August, let's go. Did
that take a little time?

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah? It did? And even even still around the fourth
of July, even this year, I get a little bit
of anxiety because I feel like, oh my gosh, summer
is ending already. Because still being a part of football,
still calling the games, here in the preseason with Kevin
and during the regular season with Wayne and Larry. It's
like it's one of those things that I know, football

(09:33):
season's right around the bend, it's right around the corner.
So I still get those butterflies, that anxious energy, so
to speak. I would say, as far as the feeling
of the what is camp going to be?

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Like? Camp?

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Camp is not what it used to be, but it's
still enough to be something that you dreads. It's six
straight weeks, a very physical, very strenuous activity. And I
remember in twenty eight eighteen that was I like to
call it my gap year, where I wasn't really playing,
but I wasn't really working yet. I was kind of
figuring things out. I was still training, and when it

(10:09):
was about August, I was watching this August Go Bye,
and I was thinking to myself, Man, if somebody brings
me in right now, somebody gives me a call right now,
it'd be really hard to say no to Because we're
already into preseason games. I know the schedule is going
to be easy from here on out. Over the summer,
I had talked to some teams and I thought, man,
I don't know if I want to do this. I
don't know if I want to go, you know, bang

(10:30):
my head for this team in this training camp. They
just had three wins last year. I don't know if
I want to do it for that. Maybe I hold
out and see if the Saints give me another call.
They're supposed to be pretty good. Maybe something happens to
the Packers fullback. But then once you get to about
the end of August, you start thinking yourself, Man, I
could go back for one wheere Wien It was funny
we called that game with Kalais Campbell this past weekend.

(10:52):
Kaleius Campbell has now told me three different times over
the years that it was his last year. Sometimes it's
hard to say. Last year he was with Atlanta and
we saw him down there and I said, how many
more years are you gonna do this, big fella? And
with his deep voice boom, I really think this is
the last one. Well, we just get on Sunday for
the Miami Dolphins. He can't give it up. Oh, it's amazing.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
Yeah, you know, And I gotta tell you John, it's
and Matt. You know, when training camp rolls around, it's
not just that Larry and John get that feeling again.
But they get real optimistic and they talked me into
the Packers going all the way at free supper and
I buy it, you know, but no, it's great, it

(11:39):
really is. And you know, I think the thing that
we do now, the three of us, since the time
go by real fast when you're doing seasonal stuff like
we are. You know, like every football season rolls around, boom,
there's a football season. All of a sudden it's over. Now,
all of a sudden it's back again. And I mean
life is just going by so fat. Then all of

(12:00):
a sudden you sit baxit. Well, we've been doing this
here for twenty five years, really, and Matt, you've been
in Madison for what thirty some year?

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Numbley.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
I mean it flies by when you for some reason,
it's seasons and it's hanging around these young guys watching
them that you know, you sit there and say, well,
I'm not any more than thirty am. I yeah, look
in the mirror, hell, plip in a picture. You're thirty
times too, maybe more.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
It's funny to say that because even with the Wisconsin
Tine this year, and they're not very good, right they
after the game, they're like man, that's it. The season
is over. Like you just you know, from our perspective,
you're prepping for the next game. You're looking at video
of the upcoming opponent, their last three games or so,
and now that they're done, and you kind of wonder,

(12:51):
you wonder what happened. I'm sure that John, it'st you
get game number what thirteen coming up with the Packers,
and they're good and they're nine and three, So I
guess it really flies from your perspective, the way this
season has been going.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, And I always thought when I was playing it,
it's a weird feeling when the season just ends, when
you don't make the playoffs, if you don't make a
bowl game, when the last game is just the last game,
that is such a weird, eerie feeling. And luckily, you know,
in my career that only happened a couple times, like
two or three times did we get to the end

(13:25):
of the season and we didn't have playof football to
look forward to. I feel like playoff football, you have
it in your mind, all right, we either go out
there and play well or it's done and you live
with the consequences you lose. We didn't play good enough,
we don't deserve to play next week. I mean, that's
kind of the mindset that's building you. If you win,
you move on and you got another exciting week. And
the playoffs are a wild ride because the field gets

(13:48):
split in half each and every week. But when you
make it to the end of that regular season and
you're seven and nine and you know you're not going
to the playoffs and you have this last game to
play for, but there's nothing on the other side of it,
it's such an odd thing.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
And wait.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
And by the way, the reason Larry and I talkie
into the Packers being so good every year is because
there really are and we've talked about this about a
dozen teams each year in the NFL. There's a dozen
organizations that have a chance before any games are played,
just because organizationally, they do things right. And you could
probably name them right now. You know, you got the Chiefs,

(14:22):
you got the Steelers, you got the Packers, you know
you got you know probably you got some teams that
just do it the right way, that give themselves a
chance throughout this season. And then you got a couple
of teams that pop up bear kind of a surprise,
like the Bengals did a few years back. But now
look at the Bengals here once again. There's a reason
that you're always optimistic in Green Bay, and it's the organization.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
What if anything is for both of you guys about
this team right now, they're sitting here nine to three.
This division is crazy right now, the NFC North. But
the Packers have had to deal with stuff. You know,
Jordan Love gets hurt opening nights, and they've had other
guys in and out of the lineup. What has surprised
you most about how this team has gotten to nine
and three?

Speaker 1 (15:03):
I think, for me, the most impressive thing Matt Lafour
has ever done. And he's got a resume now, he's
got a tremendous win percentage. Through one hundred and two
or one hundred and three games, he's won sixty seven.
I mean, he is a phenomenal coach in terms of results.
But I think the way that his team responded without
Jordan Love in weeks two, three and down there in Jacksonville,

(15:27):
rallying for three victories. Look around the NFL and see
how many teams win with backup quarterbacks. It's not that
backup quarterbacks are you know, bums. But there's a drop off.
You have a clear drop off from a starting quarterback
to a backup quarterback, and Malik Willis is a backup
quarterback right now and even bigger to that point. He

(15:49):
was only here for three weeks to learn the offense,
to how to you know, simple things like getting out
of the huddle and getting your cadence called these. He
made it look seamless. He made it look like Malik
Willis had been here for a decade and yet he
had only been here for three weeks. That to me
was the most impressive thing Matt before has ever done.
And this year, in a year that's we expected big things.

(16:13):
I don't know if we expected them to be this good,
especially without Jordan Love being his best until you know recently.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
Wing you know, John I thought the most and Matt
did it. I thought last year And I said this
to Matt during the offseason, said, you know, I've been
around the NFL forty some years, and last year I
thought was one of the best coaching jobs I've seen.
He took a young team, I mean, the only team
in the NFL they were going nowhere. They're like, what
were they four and six at one point, and you're thinking, well,

(16:41):
you know, it's a young team and they're going to
go in the toilet because they've lost all these games,
hadn't won in a month or whatever it was. And
they got they kind of turned it around and made
their run and by the end of the season they're
pretty dard and good. I thought that was a great accomplishment.
But the thing that stood out to me about this
year was we're in Jacksonville. He's got Jordan Love back,

(17:02):
you know, he's playing into the third quarter and then
he just can't go on that gloin injury, and so
here in comes Malik Willis, and guys, the game plan
has to change. You're not doing the same things with
Malik Willis that you do with Jordan Love, and you
got to change on the fly. And by the way,
the guy's got no reps with the first string offense

(17:23):
none that week, so there's no preparation part of it.
And they went out there and he kind of manipulated
the game plan a little bit. He called certain things
and Willis get in credit. He throws a beautiful ball.
Larry McCarron says this every time he's in the games.
He spins a nice ball and he made a couple
of nice passes. Who makes some key runs and the

(17:44):
Packers come from behind him, winning on a day when
Jacksonville was much better than their record would indicate. They
were playing for their season that day. Just a really
impressive coaching job and you know so, Yeah, Lafleur is
one of the upper echelon coaches in this league. I
don't believe there's any doubt of it. And the thing
I like about this team is, guys. A month ago

(18:05):
when they played Detroit, they were okay, they were a
decent team, but they're much better team now and it'll
be interesting to see when we go into Detroit what
kind of game we get. And the Packers felt last
time when they played the Lions on November third. Think
about this stat and this will tell you everything you
need to know about that game. The Packers had six

(18:28):
dropped passes in that game. The Lions had five incomplete
passes in that game. That's an amazing stat when you
think about it. The Packers felt like they didn't get
in their best shot. They've turned it over, they had
ten penalties, they were like four for twelve on third downs,
whatever it was, and it was just not good one

(18:49):
for three or four in the red zone. They feel
like they've got a lot more in them and we'll
see what happens on Thursday night, but it'll be a
big measuring stick down the stretch for the Packers who
feel like they're a much better team today than they
were a month ago. And that's what you want in
the NFL today. You want your team getting better. You
don't want to play. There's no such thing as a plateau.

(19:10):
You're either getting better getting worse. They seem to be
getting better.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
John, Hey, Matt, let me tell you this. So I
talk with the players and all the time on the sidelines,
and when I get a chance to, you know, see
them before maybe you know sometimes even during a game,
they feel like they played a terrible game against Detroit
the first time around. They feel like Detroit played a

(19:33):
perfect game the first time around, and they believe that
they were right there. When you have that belief that
we didn't play our best, they played their best and
we were right there with them. I mean this. They
have this really incredible belief in themselves that they have
this destiny to go to the super Bowl and win
the super Bowl because they have this incredible talent. I

(19:56):
think they have that incredible talent too. I don't know
what their destiny will be. You mentioned the division. It's
so incredibly good right now. This is a historic pace.
No division has ever had this win percentage this late
in the season in NFL history, or at least since
the merger, I should say, Matt, it is unprecedented. How

(20:16):
good all three of these teams are being the Lions,
the Packers, and the Vikings right now at this point
in time in the season, and you start to wonder,
I mean, the Packers, if they can get this win
on Thursday, what does that do to the landscape of
the division of the NFC. But if they don't, the
Packers will be in the playoffs. But they're going to
have to do one of those road journeys like we

(20:39):
did in twenty ten and some other teams have done
along the way. When you're that wildcard team, you have
to go three different places to get where you want
to go.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah, I want to get to that in a bit
of the twenty year run in twenty ten, Wayne, about
this time last year, maybe even deeper, we talked about
the Chicago Bears and how you thought that was a
team that was on an upward trajectory with the young talents,
and then they get Caleb Williams. You know, you got

(21:07):
the lines of Vikings Packers. Obviously you have been great.
The Bears arguably as big a disappointment. No, that's not
a work we use around here much, but I think
nationally with the biggest disappointment in the NFL. How stunning
is this? I mean, they had the Lions on the
ropes until they had the little clock management issue at
the end of the game. But how stunning is this
with the Bears taking you maybe a step forward last

(21:30):
year and two or three steps back this year. Ratt.

Speaker 4 (21:33):
You know, Matt, it's really stunning when you think about
all of these games they've lost in a row, they
usually could have won them. Hey, he easily could have
been on a roll and won those games. I mean,
you know, they got the Packers beat, they have all
they did everything but win the game against the Packers
and then you know, the field goal gets blocked, and

(21:54):
I understand that's a factor and you didn't win that game,
but there's so many games like that. They played the
Lions so well after a bad first half, they you know,
they got talent, they're probably the best what are they
born whatever it is team in the league. But nonetheless,
you know, they still they still lost. And you're exactly right.

(22:15):
Last year, at this time, I thought they were on
that trajectory. And that's why I thought it was so
significant when the Packers beat them the last week of
the regular season, because the Bears were a good team,
really good defensively. And this year, you know, they they
supposedly have better talent and it just doesn't work out.
Now they fire their coach John. You know, they're really perplexing.

(22:37):
I guess it's an organizational thing that filters down to
the field, you know, and I don't quite understand how
that happens. You've been inside there, you know what that's like.
You've been with the Steelers, who are a lot like
the Packers. You've won a Super Bowl there. You've been
with the Packers, You've been with the Saints, and you know,
when Sean went down there, you know, well, it's perplexing

(23:02):
to me how they could the Bears could be where
they are now with the talent they at.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
You know, sometimes you can see teams that are ascending,
and sometimes you can't see them. Sometimes they can play
good and they just don't get the victories. You talk
about their losses, you know, the Lions, the Vikings in overtime,
the Packers with a block field goal, and the Washington
Commanders with that debacle at the end of that football game.

(23:30):
All four of those games were close. All four of
those teams are NFC playoff contenders right now. They took
four playoff contenders to the brink in four out of
the last six weeks. I'm not saying they're a bad team,
because they showed that they can play for fifty eight minutes,
fifty nine minutes with them that last minute, that last play.

(23:51):
Sometimes you talk about the debacle that happened on Thanksgiving
Day for the Chicago Bears. It's a tying up of
loose ends. You gotta fine tune the details. And some
teams the good teams. I mean, how many times does
Patrick Mahomes need a two minute drow and he walks
them right down the field. How many times do you
see the Steelers, you know, mess up some sort of

(24:14):
game operation. How often do you see Matt Lafleur get
other teams and Jordan love get other teams? With twelve
men on the football field. Perfecting the little nuances is
how you go from losing all four of these games
that are brutally close, like to Chicago Bears, or winning
three or four of them. The good teams do it,

(24:35):
and that Bears team, I still believe their defense is tough.
Way you can see the potential and their offense. Caleb
Williams when he gets rid of the football, they look
like they can move it up and down the field.
So I think if they can get somebody in there
that can stabilize the forces, that can get them focused
on de fine details and really the little nuances that

(24:57):
it takes to be a winner in the NFL, I
think that team can make a could make a rise,
just like the Minnesota Vikings, you know, with Sam Darnold
this year.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
It's interesting you say it, John, because I mean, I
watch and listen to you guys obviously, but you'll watch
this team from Afar, this Packers team, and it just
seems like they this is a group that expects to
make the plays when you have to make it. If
it's a Christian Watson laying out for for a long
cat for a catch of the long pass from Jordan
Love a couple of field goals at the gun, the
block field goal. You mentioned it on the broadcast, where

(25:28):
these guys knew that the kicks were low, that they
got a legit chance to send this back. I mean,
there's there's the loose ends, there's the excess and o's.
But you get a sense with this team, I think
I know the answer, but don't want to hear it
from you, that when it gets to crunch time, they
expect to make the play. They have a firm belief
that we got to do this export the nine, we're
going to convert it. We got to get a stop here,

(25:50):
We'll get a stop. Maybe yoga enough, maybe too young
to know better, whatever, They just fully expect to be
able to make the plays when they have to be made.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, I think there's a sweet spot with a young team,
right you know, you start, there's a time and I
think this was last year when they were too naive
to know the magnitude of the games that they were
playing in. Right now, I think they're in that. Man,
we were so close last year. We're really good last year.
If we just focused that that little bit more, if

(26:21):
we just practiced just a tiny bit harder. We can
get over that hump of the second round in the playoffs, right,
and you can feed off of that for a while
before it starts getting to man the playoffs and the
burden of the playoffs and how many how many you know,
bad losses? Are we gonna have a row? We're not
there with this team that was the Aaron Rodgers team,

(26:41):
because going from twenty eleven to two thousand and twenty one,
that was a lot of heartbreak in the playoffs with
those teams, and you just wondered, was it ever meant
to be for them? Again? Well, this team, this team
is still in that we don't know how good they're
going to be yet phase, and they can look back
at last year and say, if we just push a

(27:02):
little bit hard, They're not naive anymore. They understand how
big this is. Because then when you lose in the
playoffs and you go home and you watch these teams
advanced that you took to the brain, and then you
see them on the brink of a super Bowl and
you go, oh, we're that close to beating the team
that's that close to winning the Super Bowl. You come
back the next year with a little bit of energy,
Guys like Tucker Craft, Guys like Jada Reid, guys like

(27:26):
Jordan loves Avra McKinney. I mean, they all have this
incredible passion that's driving them this year. And you know
when you get into those playoffs. Okay, let's look at
where they're at right now. Could they be right now
in that sweet spot like they were last year when
they made their run. Jordan leb seventeen touchdowns one interception

(27:48):
during the last eight game. Could they be in that
sweet spot right now? These are the first two games
he hasn't had a turnover. This is the first two
games the Packers have gone over thirty points back to back.
They could be just now hitting their stride.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
Yeah, you know, John, I agree with you. And they're
still they're not at the ceiling yet. Some teams watching
this weekend especially, I get the feeling some teams maybe
add or close to their ceiling, and I don't know
if the Packers are. And while they get to their ceiling,
we don't know. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but
they're not quite there and they're still evolving. And I

(28:22):
do like the way La Bloor is bringing this team along.
And so yeah, there's some optimism here.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
On Wisconsin off fees, get fee free checking options and
more at uw Credit Union, Join at UWCU dot org.
Terms and conditions apply ensured by NCUA.

Speaker 4 (28:43):
John Coon is our guest on the Lay Review Will
Pay podcast. John at the two time Super Bowl champion.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
John.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
You played for Pittsburgh, as I mentioned, You've been around
John Peyton and New Orleans and Drew Brees and obviously
the Packers. You've seen Red Fire, Aaron Rodgers. You won
a Super Bowl with Green Day. What sets what sets
these organizations apart? I mean, if there's some supernatural thing

(29:13):
that goes on here for these organizations with the way
they win, what do you notice?

Speaker 3 (29:18):
What did you notice over the.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Years consistency and the ability to take emotion out of things? Right,
You don't make decisions emotionally in any business, and especially
not in sports, because there's already emotions game day. They're
all the way up here. And if you let those
emotions blow over into the decisions that you're making off
the football field, that's when terrible things happen. That's when

(29:43):
you get quarterbacks that have four different offensive coordinators in
the first four years. Right, nobody can succeed with those
type of situations. Right, that's when you get players traded
away or released because two men can't come together and
you know, squash their differences. I truly believe the Vernie's
they have this thing and they walk through that building

(30:04):
and they go, man, Man, do your thing, Tomlin, do
your thing, and they let their fruits blossom and they
watch it happen without ever really meddling in it. The
Green Bay Packers, you know, the same thing. Mark Murphy,
he sits back here, he trusts Goody and russ Ball
and Matt Before to do what they have to do

(30:25):
and there aren't any knee jerk reactions and that type
of consistency that's felt by the players when players walk
in every day and they don't have to worry about
their job, or they don't have to worry about, you know,
the lunch room, the food in the lunch room. They
just know it's gonna be there and it's gonna be good.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
There are teams still in the NFL met that make
you buy your lunch, believe it or not. And some
people might say, well that's kind of creat it's kind
of crazy to have these athletes that you want to
perform at their highest and you're not controlling what you're
putting in that vehicle. Are you putting premium gas in there?
Or are you letting them just dump some sort of

(31:01):
you know, crappy gas into their engine. I mean, the
teams that do it right, they put into their players
and their players put right back into them.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, it's interesting to get your perspective on that. I
want to walk back to the twenty ten because I'm
looking back. I had my own revision as history, thinking, well,
you guys got you guys got red hot in December,
and well it was kind of up and down right.
I mean, you lose a couple in December and then
you win the last two regular season games to get
into the playoffs as a sixth seed. When did you believe?

(31:34):
When did you and your teammates believe that you could
take it to the finish line?

Speaker 1 (31:38):
Two thousand and nine. Two thousand and nine, very much
like the Packers saw last year. Two thousand and nine,
we were the hottest team in the NFL going into
the playoffs. I think we won eight of our last
nine games. We let one slip at Pittsburgh on the
last play of the game, Ben Roethlisberger, I think to
Mike Wallace in the side of the end zone. So
we were hot, we were rolling, and we went into

(32:00):
Arizona and we lost a game in Arizona that we
thought we should have won. In fact, Aaron Rodgers on
the first player overtime just over the outstretched fingertips of
Greg Jennings. That could have been a walk in touchdown.
Next play hitting the face mask, kicked the ball. All
kinds of things went crazy, and you know, Carlos Dansby
runs in a touchdown. I remember being in that locker room.

(32:20):
That was one of those games when when you lose
in the playoffs, you know, all of a sudden, you
come in you're like, man, we weren't ready for it
to stop, but we didn't deserve to win because we
didn't play better than the other team. That was one
of those games where it's like, well, damn it stopped.
We're not moving on, but we should have. We were
good enough to go on, and how good could we
have been if we did get to go, how far

(32:42):
could we have gone? So we believed after two thousand
and nine we were a team ready to run. With
disting twenty ten. We came out of the gates. We
had some ups, we had some downs. We had a
lot of injuries that year. If you remember, we lost
Michael Finley third game of the season. I believe in Washington,
we lost a tusher. You know, we six, So like
we had starters going down right and left. Nick Barnet

(33:04):
went down, so we had a lot of guys going down.
Brandon Chiller went down. I mean, we had starters constantly
being injured and young guys constantly going into that lineup.
So for us, it was always just if we just
stabilized this thing. We're the same team that we've always been.
We just got to stabilize it. Aaron Rodgers got a
concussion in Detroit, couldn't play the next game in New England,

(33:27):
and we played New England with Matt Flynn as our quarterback.
Tom Brady was their quarterback and we nearly beat We
should have beat them on that Sunday night game. We
should have beat them, and we walked out of that.
I remember walking out of that game and reporters saying,
all right, if you guys win next week at the Giants,
you're the sixth seed. How does that feel? And we
were like, feels great because we thought we thought we

(33:50):
might be out of it right now. So we just
kind of took it at that point in time and
ran with it once we knew we got that Mulligan,
that miracle at the Meadowlands Part two. Mulligan is what
they called it. So Matt to short concise answer, we
knew the entire year we were goo enough to do.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
It, you know, but bagged it up and that's for sure.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
Yeah, And all the injuries that year they this is
Detroit kind of reminds me of what the Packers went
through that year. All the people they lost, sixteen IR guys,
eight of them starters, and another four or five others
that were key contributors, you know, in the rotations. And
Mike McCarthy once said, he said something like, I think

(34:32):
seventy eight different players on the loster that year. You're
picking up guys off the street, they're plugging them in,
and I'm seeing the Lions doing the same thing. They've
got eighteen people on the IR list and most of
them are defensive starters, and it's yet they keep moving along.
So you know the thing that I thought about that year,

(34:53):
you know, there was a point in that season when
I said, as an observer, I said, jeez, I don't know.
These guys have a way too many injuries. They're really
get to where I know they felt they could go.
But at some point, I think it was that New
England game. John, as you pointed out, you guys came
out of that game said, Okay, you know, listen, the
Patriots were the best team in the league that year
from a talent standpoint, from a record all that, but

(35:16):
the Packers, you know, should have beaten them, and really
would have if if a special teams play right before
halftime kind of way. The offensive lineman went like, I
don't know, seventy eight yards to set up Tom Brady
for a little chip shot touchdown pass right before at them.
Otherwise you guys win that game. I think then you knew.

(35:36):
But to me as an observer, it really crystallized that
the Packers became super when they were in Atlanta and
you know, Falcons are the number one seed. It's a
Saturday night, the the Dome is just bursting with energy
and it's you know, the Packers on leading twenty one

(35:56):
to fourteen. Right before halftime. Matt Ryan's trying to move
the Falcons in condition to get a field goal or
maybe a touchdown to tie the game at halftime, and
he throws a little out in the sidelines and all
of a sudden, Kaman Williams intercepts it, returns it for
a touchdown. Now it's twenty eight to fourteen, and for
some reason, that just crystallized to me that, Wow, these
guys as constituted, they have a chance to do it all.

(36:19):
They can get it done. And I didn't think they'd
lose after that, and they didn't.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Here's a good one for you, Matt. We played Atlanta
also during the regular season that year and we had
lost a down to the wire, you know, fight with them.
I think it even went to overtime or real close.
Maybe they kicked the field goal at the end to win.
I remember kicking off to them and their return, I
think it was Eric Williams at the time, had a
big return, ran it back cross midfield, then got a

(36:45):
horse collar tackle or a face mask gave him an
extra fifteen yards and then all they needed was one
first down to kick the game winning field goal. That's
how we lost in the regular season to Atlanta, and
at that point in time, we had a decent record
and they had a good record. And after that game
that we had lost, Charles Woodson said, pay no mind
to this game, telling us in the locker room, we

(37:05):
will come back here to beat them to go to
the super Bowl. We walked into that building. We were
sure we were going to beat the Atlanta Falcons that night.

Speaker 4 (37:13):
Forty years so, last thing on that season, man, just
this is an incredible statistic from that season. The Packers
played all those games, they never trailed in any game
by more than seven points.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
Never.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
It was an amazing from that standpoint, it was amazing.
Lost a lot of close games, walked the game to
Miami and lambeau Field on a field goal in the
final seconds, but never.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Trailed big ever that season. Yeah, and a great entertaining
super Bowl, even if you didn't have a dog in
a fight, you know, to beat the Pittsburgh Steelers. I'm
jumping around past the present here. Let me go back to,
you know, obviously the Lions this week and how good
they are and they still throw caution to the wind,
and how they approached things and it was great until

(37:58):
it wasn't for them, I guess. In the NFC championship game.
The college equivalent of that, I think is Oregon. They
don't really care either, They're going to do whatever whenever.
Do you think that Dan Campbell will continue to do
that in the postseason? Will he continue to stand on
the gas pedal, take risks, give his coordinator the green light.

(38:19):
You want to run some trick when you're when you're
moving the ball down the field, you know the quote
conventional way, You've got some trick, play go ahead. Does
he change course or do you think this is, Hey,
this is what, this is how I do it, and
we're going to continue to We're going to roll the dice.
We're gonna go for it when maybe you shouldn't because

(38:39):
this is who we are. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
I have no reason to think that he changes anything
about the process that they have there in Detroit. I
mean he came in. I remember him coming in. I
mean he was hired. I think the year after Matt
was it Wayne was he the year after Matt got hired,
and the national perception was this guy's a goofball. He's

(39:03):
not gonna last, he's not gonna he's not gonna be
the one to rebuild Detroit. And listen, I had spent
some time with Dan Campbell down in New Orleans. He
was the assistant head coach and tight ends coach down there.
When Sean Payton needed somebody to step up in the
team meeting room, it was him. I knew what kind
of presence he brought and the kind of bravado when
he walks into a room, It gets guys attention. They

(39:25):
sit up straighter, they listen better, they have eye contact,
And I felt confident that Dan Campbell was gonna be
that type of guy in Detroit, even if he was
giving speeches about biting people's ankles. He's not the type
of guy to change because of what anybody thinks. If
he believes it's the right move, he's gonna do it.

(39:46):
And for five years now he's told us he's gonna
run fake punts on his side of the fifty. He's
gonna go for it all fourth, in three or four,
he's gonna do stuff that makes his team believe that
he's gonna carry them somewhere great. And as long as
that team believes, and he's going to keep calling it
the way that he's been called, I don't see the
Lions changing for anything. And whether that's the reason they

(40:10):
win or ultimately their demise once again in the playoffs.
That's just a part of their fun story.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
That's it. It's interesting because we go back to that
first news conference and I'm sitting here just as a
football fan, going, man, how's that going to go in
Week ten? But you guys, as players, John, you know
what fraud when you see one, and you know genuine
guys when you see one, and you know the way
you describe Dan Campbell, you know him a little bit.
He is who he is, right, He's genuine. What you
see is once you get with him, it's not just

(40:36):
for the cameras.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
I think it was about halfway through his second year,
and they were at the time, I believe Wanne. They
were one and nine and we were playing in Detroit
and he had already ran a fake punt that I
think we maybe stopped. But then there's a fourth and
one at midfield and he decided all they have to

(40:59):
do is punt. We didn't have any time outs left.
All they had to do was punt, and he went
for it and they missed it, and now the Packers
and Aaron Rodgers have a chance to go twenty yards
to kick a game winning field goal. I had people
I'll just say his name, TJ. Lang is calling the
game for the Lions, and he's texting me. Is he

(41:20):
trying to get fired? That's what people were. It was
so crazy how he was calling these games. But they
ended up winning that football game, and then they started
going on a run, and then they finished that season
beating the Packers at lambeau Field, and then it started
feeling like, Okay, maybe this team has gotten something figured out.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
Yeah, that was Aaron Rodgers' last game at lambeau Field,
and like Brett Tharv's last game, it ended in an interception,
this one by Kirby Joseph. But yeah, you know. The
other thing about Detroit people have to understand is the
front office. Okay, that has changed completely after years and
years of losing and starts and stops and everything else.

(42:08):
They do a great job with personnel. They have a
guy in that front office by the name of John
Dorsey for a long time with one of bron Wolfe's
top lieutenants in Green Bay. They have a great general manager.
They have a great working relationship between the Scouts of
general manager, the head football coach, and Detroit is built
for the long run. Whether they win it this year

(42:29):
or not, who knows. I think it's their year, and
if they don't win it this year, they'll have to
kind of retool a little bit going forward. But nonetheless
it appears to be their year. But hey, it was
San Francisco's year last year. And when you miss your
window of opportunity, John, You've been on a couple of these.
When you miss your window, the following year usually is

(42:50):
not pretty and it takes a little retooling, and maybe
it takes two years to get over that one year.
But the Lions right now they're on top of the world.
That got all leave injuries, but it doesn't seem to matter. Man,
Gampbell not gonna allow it to matter. They picked up
about six veterans this week, two to get that through.
So that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
You mentioned a couple very important things. When you see
great teams in the history of any sport, you're always
talking about the people that are behind the scenes. Right,
people are gonna say Jared Goff, Jamiir Gibbs, Brian Branch,
Dan Campbell, Right, they're gonna say those names. Well, when
you start talking the names of Ben Johnson, in ten years,

(43:33):
how are we gonna know Ben Johnson? Are we even
gonna know him as an offensive coordinator? Or will he
be a phenomenal head coach at that point in time?

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Right?

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Potentially, potentially he'll be one of those phenomenal head coaches somewhere.
John Dorsey Waane, You and I know John Dorsey very well, right,
And he did a lot of good when he was
in Green Bay helping pick players. Well, guess what John
Dorsey also did. He helped build back to Kansas City Chiefs,
right with Alex Smith and Patrick Mahomes and that whole
revamping of that team. And now he's there kind of

(44:03):
just behind the window, you know that people can't really see,
but he's in there tooling and helping and doing those things.
They have those types of people in that organization now,
the people that are going to have big names and
big careers in the NFL, not just one or two
or three or four hit wonders. They're getting there for
the long haul and they'll be known for great successes
over time. And they got a number of those throughout

(44:25):
their staff.

Speaker 4 (44:26):
For our listeners, Gon Dorsey is the guy who picked
Patrick Mahomes in Kansas City and Baker Mayfield in Cleveland
up said, I mean he knows what he's doing.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
My last one for you, that's really general, So I
apologize in advance. But this looks like a window of
opportunity here for the for the Packers. You know, they're
sitting here nine to three, and they've gotten there without
being whole for most, if not all, of the season.
What's the biggest if they if they can make a
deep run and maybe get to the finish line here,
biggest reason would be what, well I shake it.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
It's clearly Jordan Love. It has to be Jordan Love.
And there's no answer other than Jordan Love. If you
go back to last year, that success of the Green
Bay Packers, it was they won because of Jordan Love.
Aaron Jones went off, and the run game is very
important to marry, you know, for a quarterback, because that's
really their best friend. When the run game's working, the

(45:22):
play actions working and everything else is going off. So
you could say Josh Jacobs too, but it's Jordan Love.
And quite frankly, it was Jordan Love last year until
the fourth quarter when he turned the ball over at
San Francisco. I know they missed the field goal wing.
But he turned the ball over against San Francisco in
the fourth quarter. Last year, it was Jordan Love. This year,

(45:42):
they were good, not great because he's had some turnovers. Well,
look at how good they are when he doesn't turn
the ball over. It's Jordan Love, Matt. If he doesn't
turn the football over, this team has a lot of weapons,
and Matt Laflour is too dialed in to calling plays
this season. If Jordan Love doesn't turn the ball over,
this Packers team goes very far.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
Yeah, well, said John. We can't thank you enough for
taking time out with us. You know, it's great to
reminisce with you about all these different things and get
your perspective from inside the locker room at some great
moments over the years. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Well, guys, it's my pleasure because, as I like to say,
right now, I'm a little unde employed, so I need
to get my reps. I appreciate you for allowing me
to get my reps up on this Monday morning.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Eighty taus you wanted you know where to find us exactly, John, John,
We'll give you reps. Oh, Wayne, you got football ahead
of you. That makes one of US has said that
thing is wrapped up for the Badgers. Unfortunately, on the
last Friday and losing to Minnesota as the Gophers get

(46:48):
the trophy, the Paul Bunyan's acts that they took back
with them, they're disappointing. You know, a few weeks ago,
I would have told you, and I thought I would
have had material to back it up, that they were
getting better. But you conclude by losing convincingly to Minnesota
and then before that to to Nebraska, the rivalry gains.

(47:08):
We're all lopsided losses, and they know, from the top
on down they got a lot of work to do.
They just, you know, going BOWLSS for the first time
since two thousand and one. It's a little humble pie.
I said. I'd always tell people it taste awful, but
it could be good for you. So it'll be. It's
gonna be fascinating to see the moves that they make,

(47:29):
what the roster looks like, so on and so forth.
Moving forward.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
You know, man, I got to ask you. Obviously they're
in the throes of a rebuild, and they have been
since the new coach arrived in Luke Pickle. But nonetheless,
is it harder to rebuild something like this in this
day and age with all these transfers and everything, or
is it easier or.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
What do you feel? I think you can. You just
look at what Indiana did. That tells you you could
flip it big in a hurry. I think the trick
is sustaining it. You know, right now there's the view
of Wisconsin's schedule that could be depressing if you let
it be that way. Next year they're going to travel
to Oregon, They're going to travel to Indiana. They're going

(48:12):
to travel to Minnesoa, to Michigan. Big your pardon, Well,
they'll go to Minnesota too. Ohio State comes here, Iowa
comes here, and they go, whoa. This not a whole
lot of whole lot of breaks in there, but what
the roster could look like. It comes down way and
I think the three things You've got to be able
to identify, you've got to be able to to evaluate,

(48:35):
and then you have to have an ability to compensate.
You know, they've had I think thirty one transfers come
into this program over the last two years, but really
only a handful have had an impact. So Luke Fickle
when he came here stated very clearly he didn't want
to build through the portal long term. I mean, yes,

(48:56):
you were going to have some holes that you would
need to fill. But they had seventeen through the portal
this year. I think fourteen last year. So it's been
pretty hot and heavy, and they're in addition to high
school recruiting, but through the portal especially, you need to
hit more than what they've been hitting in terms of
impact players. And at the high school level they have

(49:18):
a lot of players who are labeled as four star prospects.
So we'll see what that translates to. That's a long
answer I'm given, but I think you can. You could
turn it quickly. But what does that mean. I just
think in college football we could see more up and
down nature of programs. Here is like you know, Jack

(49:40):
who was all about the Bengals were like a few
years ago, Wow, they're in the super Bowl, could have
should have won it. Now they're struggling, and I think
we might see more and more of that. You see
it anyway historically, but you could see it more and
more with even the better programs. So you mean the
vallets will be lower than that, you could just have
more of them. It's I mean, with Wisconsin, it's been

(50:04):
more of a roller coaster than a lot of us
might think. Sometimes there's some revisionist history. I looked back
Wayne over the last you go back to the nineteen
ninety three season with Wisconsin football, the first year they
ever won a Rose Bowl, but the ninety four Rose
Bowl following the ninety three season, So you go back
thirty years now, they would have made the twelve team

(50:26):
College Football Playoff you could safely assume nine times. So
three times every ten years, that's the pace. Now from
twenty ten to twenty nineteen, they'd have made it five
times had there been a twelve team playoff back then
Brett's Belamus teams in twenty ten, twenty eleven, I think
it's safe to say they would have made it. And

(50:47):
the CFP rankings when Paul was here, they had made
it in twenty sixteen, seventeen, and nineteen. But over three decades,
three out of every ten years? Is that good enough?
Is that for a fan base? Maybe make it two
years out of five and one block one out of five.
The next block, maybe you get hot in another five
year block, you get in there three times? Is that?

(51:10):
Is that good enough, and that's the I think what
we would say today might not be how we feel
tomorrow or next year about it. But I think even
like as we talk Alabama sweating it out, you know,
are they gonna make it? You know? Maybe maybe not,
it's yeah, but I do think you could see more

(51:31):
peaks and valleys, even though those are the that's the
fine differently school to school. But I just it's gonna
be very interesting to see. I don't know if anybody
really knows for sure, but I'm just kind of in
watch Indiana next year. You know, terrific, great year, great
year this year with Kirk Shignetti bringing a lot of
his guys from James Madison and you know, impact transfers

(51:54):
left and right, a lot of these are one and done.
What happens next year, it's if if they can make it.
More power to them. I'm just kind of pumping the
brakes on anointing them as the next great power program
of the Big Ten Conference.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
Ed, we had this discussion this summer, I would be
asking you this question and including Indiana in it and
the Produes, the Northwesterns, I would have said, Indiana, can
they survive in these kinds of conferences, these huge mega conferences.
Mat do they have a chance?

Speaker 3 (52:29):
I think I think administrators that those other schools will
say yeah, because look what Indiana did. Now it comes
down to, you know, with the revenue sharing, and you're
still going to have to build a collective off of that.
You know, whatever the school pays directly to a player,
you're still going to need, in my opinion, you're going
to need a pretty good pot of money from from

(52:50):
the collective to also pay these athletes. But I do
think that the Indiana model is going to get a
lot of other administrations saying, hey, they why can't we not?
Unlike in a different world, when Barry Alvarez led Wisconsin
to three Rose Bowl championships in the nineties, I mean
before you got there, that program had won one bowl

(53:11):
game ever and it wasn't the Rose Bowl. So then
you get, well, they did it, why can't we? So
I think the pressure wane. I mean, these coaches make
big bucks, so I mean it goes with the territory.
But I think the pressure to get in the playoffs. However,
many times in a five year or a ten year period,
but even for you know, the purdues, the Northwesterns, the

(53:33):
Minnesota's for that matter, like you're going to need to
get there because there were more doors that can be
open to get to that than we've ever had before.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
Interesting, it'll be interesting to see how it all works out,
especially this week, the final week of the college football
when we have the conference championship games. Then we'll get
the field set for the football championship playoff and how
that all goes together. But basketball, Badger's off top did
a good start, Marquette playing really well. You know, hey,

(54:07):
this is a good time for college basketball in the
state of Wisconsin, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Yeah, it really is. And they'll get a national stage
on Saturday at Viser Forum when Wisconsin and Marquette play,
and Marquette is it's interesting. We're talking about the transfer portal.
Marquette's the anti portal program. You know, nobody left. They
didn't bring anybody in from the portal. It has been
a recruit and development and retain. Imagine they've got a

(54:34):
little money to keep these guys here. But Cam Jones
is off to just a great start for Marquette, but
he isn't the only guy. They have pretty good scoring
balanced David Joplin. I think the one guy from Wisconsin,
I think on the rosters plus one walk on, but
they Stevie Mitchell, Chase Ross. They've all played really, really
well for Marquette in the early going. They're win against Purdue,

(54:57):
what they they pulled away, ended up winning by like
eighteen points. That's a massive check mark win for them,
I think early in the season. And Wisconsin has been
been a very pleasant surprise to many. John Tanjay the
transfer has been electric and their ability to get to
the free throw line and shoot it at a in
the upper eighties in terms of their percent with the

(55:20):
Badgers though, I mean it's great. I'm enjoining us. They've
played really well early in the last couple of seasons,
and then by the time February hits, the bodies break down,
the lack of depth becomes an issue. Fingers crossed that
they've got more depth and they can just stay healthier
and be able to play well late in the year,

(55:42):
because that's been an issue for the past couple of seasons.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
We'll see how it goes. Should be a great one
at Binicer Forum on Saturday, Wisconsin, Marquette the annual December
Shoutdown it'll be a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Yeah, no trophies needed for this. They just two teams
that play, two fan bases that just love each other.
As we all know. It's always fun over there though.
They're just a different fibe I've found through the years
when this game is played older in Milwaukee, so I
just look forward to it.

Speaker 4 (56:15):
It's just great for the state. It's great for college
basketball in the state of Wisconsin. All right, Matt, that'll
do it for us on this one special thanks to
two time Soup of Old Champaul profol that John Coon
our guest today. Our producer engineer Dave McCann. Our executive
producer is Jeff Tyler. This is Wayne, thank you very
much for listening to the Larovie and the Pay podcast.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
The Larovian La Pay podcast is a production of iHeart
Radio Podcasts with hosts Wayne Larvy and Matt Lapey, with
production engineering by Dave McCann. The Larovian La Pay podcast
is presented by UW Credit Union. Here for every you
listen to other episodes available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Penny Pay