October 1, 2024 • 48 mins
Wayne and Matt talk with Michael Silver, author of the book "The Why is Everything: A Story of Football, Rivalry & Revolution." It features Matt LaFleur, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Mike McDaniel and Raheem Morris.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
See that guy over across the field in the white sweatsuit,
which of course was always al Davis's attire, and pretty
far away, and he said, Elvis says yeah, and Mike said,
I want you to take this football and I want
you to throw it as hard as you can, right
at him, and Elvis kind of laugh and Mike goes,
you know, looks him right in the eye. He says,
I'm bleeping serious, throw this football in his head or else,
(00:23):
like I'm your boss. So Elvi Skirback goes back, throws
a tight spiral and it's coming right in al Davis's head.
At the last second, Elsie's a coming goes like this,
ducks out of the way, falls to the grass, the
ball passes up. He comes up staring at Mike Shannan
and Mike Shanahan is waving at him, and that gives
him an ubcend gesture to underscore it. So very competitive
(00:47):
guy Mike didn't quite have the arm to get it there,
but he had a guy he could manipulate to get
it there.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
This is the Laravian La Pay podcast, a production of
iHeartRadio Podcasts with hosts Wayne Lerevie, the voice of the
Green Bay Packers and Matt Lapey, the voice of Wisconsin
Badgers football and men's basketball. The Laravian La Pey Podcast
is presented by UW Credit Union.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Here for every U.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
HI, everybody, I'm Wayne Laravie. Hey, I'm Matt Lapey.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
On this episode of the Laravie La pay Podcast, disappointing
losses for the Badgers in southern California the Packers to
the Vikings in Green Bay this past weekend. Chop it
up a little bit on that, but what we really
want to get to our guest is award winning sports
journalist Michael Silver, whose new book, The Why Is Everything
chronicles the latest coaching trend in the National Football League.
(01:39):
Stay tuned, We've got good stuff coming up on the
Lerovian la Pey Podcast. Ready to give fees the stiff arm.
UW Credit Union can help because since nineteen thirty one,
they've been committed to eliminating fees for members. Join today
at UWCU dot org. Insured by NCUA. Terms and conditions apply.
(02:01):
All right, Matt, you're fresh back from Southern California. We
talked last week about how you know, I built up
the conloseum for you. You've got a beautiful southern California day.
The Badgers played a heck of a first half. There
was a crowd of over what seventy thousand there. It
looked great, it sounded great, everything was going well, and
(02:22):
then they had to play the second half. But give
me your impressions. What did you make of your first
trip to the Conloseum.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
You know what I did, a joy. We talked for
the deal the last part. I'm one of those like
sports history geeks, you know, if it was the Oakland
Coliseum or any of the great venues in the college world.
The Camp Rantle obviously is Iconomy Ohio Stadium sold on
and so forth, Michigan Stadium. But I had not worked
a game at the LA Colliseum, and I was I
(02:48):
kind of I had low expectations going in at the
building itself, but they had the renovations had been really good,
like were reworked the game. It was terrific. The locker room,
visiting locker room very tiny. Wayne. Apparently, as the story goes,
that's when the Raiders were there, and al Davis wanted
it to be as as crappy a locker room as
possible for the visiting team. And apparently remains that way,
(03:11):
which is part of the charm of football or of
sports in general. But yeah, I just I kind of
as you suggested. I followed your suggestion. I came down
the tunnel, you know, leading from the we're both teams,
into the field and just just took it in. And
it was you can't help if you're a sports fan
(03:33):
of any kind, you walk into a place like that
and you can't help. But think of the athletes, you know,
football obviously, but not just football, the Olympic games, the
big events that had been there over the course of time.
And I just for a long time, I wasn't very
good at doing this. So now maybe because of older
you know, you don't know anywhere laps you're going to
have doing this stuff like I got to take this in, man,
(03:54):
this is and the field itself, Wayne, I mean, I
told Tauscher I would three putt. But it was like
a green I mean, it was just I mean, it
was like the Rose Bowl and how closely he'll tighten
it cut And I guess they resided maybe or they
have to do them work on it three times or
so a year. But it was a beautiful fast track
(04:17):
and it was, you know, the outcome was what the
outcome was, but just being in there for it was
a lot.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
For Yeah, Oh it's such a spectacular venue in part
because of all that's happened there, but it also is
a big ball. It's a big arena and that end
zone to the right side from the press box. You know,
you just you feel the history there, same as you
do with the Rose Bull as I know you're you
love the roads Ball as I do, and you know,
(04:44):
those certain stadiums you can really feel it, really feel
what happened there, all the people who had been there,
the different things that happened in that building. I think
they're going to have fourth or fifth Olympics there coming up.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
I mean I think it'll be the third one and
I'll have X number of events. They're going to do
a lot at so far as you would imagine. But yeah,
there was what nineteen thirty two and then nineteen eighty.
It's hard for me to believe the I mean, I
pretty decent memory of the nineteen eighty Olympic Games in LA.
But they're in Yes, in twenty twenty eight, they will
(05:17):
they will do it again. So it's just but yeah,
so many other events have been their first hall with
the LA Dodgers before Dodgers Stadium was out. It is,
you know, it's not because of the maybe the age
of it too. It's not a stadium that holds noise
particularly well. Or maybe it's just the LA thing. You know,
you come, you arrive fashionably late. But it was. It
was technically a sellout and there was a big crowd there.
(05:39):
You know, for the first half. The Badgers were playing
awfully well and even like you look at retrospect, they're
down three going into the fourth quarters. They would you
take that, you know, going in there, Yeah, you would
have put the way the game unfolded, you could just
kind of feel that the wheels start to come off
of that.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah, you know, Matt, how good is sc I mean,
are they top twenty solid or they?
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah? Yeah, I think they're They're a top twenty team
at least as we see them right now. I think
the quarterback Miller Bosses, he's a gamer. He made some
big time throws.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
He's got some big, tall receivers, strong who can get
contested balls. Uh. Jakobe Lane had a had a career
day and then of a receiver Douche Robinson, who's who's
who caught a touchdown pass? He's six six. He could
do a lot of things well defensively, but sometimes if
you're not six six, if you're closer to six feet,
(06:34):
you know, if they throw it in the right spot,
there's not too much you can do about that. So
they're I think, Wayne, they're better than the eight win
team they were last year. I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily
say they're a playoff team quite yet, but it's a good,
solid football team out there. And what do you make.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Of the contrast between USC and UCLA. Why is US
UCLA fallen so far off of that level the USC
has been on and is on.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Yeah, you get the impression. The resources, particularly now within
the NIL world, it's just a bigger deal. I think
for USC they got their coordinator Danton Land, the son
of Anthony for NFL head coach. There's a lot of
staff now in the league, but there were some players
from UCLA who came over as well, and I think
(07:25):
there's just, hey, from what I understand, just better in
IL opportunities at USC. Look U c l A. You're right,
there's certainly a tradition there. But USC when you think
college football and Los Angeles, you're going to think US
seems first. But now the Heisman Trophy winners and the
UCLA has had its runs. Terry Donna, you you know,
(07:45):
did a great job there certainly. But when you think
U c l A, you try to think basketball. And
when you think U c l A, you think, you know,
from Charles White, doj SiZ and Reggie and you know,
all the great players who have rolled through their sc
comes to mind. The brand is just bigger football.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yeah, seems to be. Well, the Packers the Vikings had
their one hundred and twenty eighth meeting and it was
one of the more stranger ones that I've seen. You know,
the Vikings get up twenty eight nothing and in lambeau Field,
and wow, you know, I give the Packers a lot
of credit. They came back the second half. They certainly
(08:27):
made a game of it. But to get when the
fact they were down twenty eight nothing in the first
place was eye opening.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
That's the thing. I you know, there's there's always the
backlash with a kicker struggles and and I get that,
but you fall behind twenty eight nothing, that's that's a problem.
But I but as you said, Wall, you got to
get the Vikings credit because they were probably the least
well not probably. I think I can say this with competence,
the least talked about team in this division. Yes, certainly
(08:57):
the Lions with what they did, the Hope with the
Chicago Bears, Caleb Williams and you know, so on and
so forth, and clearly the way the Packers played in
the second half of last year, the Vikings were. It's
in a lot of ways seem like an afterthought. They're
not an afterthought anymore. I guess the question is can
they sustain it.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
They start well, and Matt, you know on the NFL level,
I mean I know the college level too, but in
the NFL level, it gets down to injuries after a while.
I mean, people wonder, well, why is San Francisco struggling?
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Are they?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Well, they're struggling because they've got a lot of people
out the Rams whom the Packers go out to play
this week. They're without their two all pro receivers and
they're not going to have them this week. I don't think,
you know, injuries have such an impact on that NFL product.
Right now, the Vikings are playing at a different level.
(09:50):
They really are, and it's a credit to them. It's
a credit to the way they put that team together.
What was interesting, Matt is when I broke down the
two rosters, you looked at how they were built, and
if you go back to the draft starting from twenty
twenty to now, in those five drafts, the Packers had
twenty eight players still on their roster, twelve starters out
of those drafts. Minnesota Vikings had eighteen players on their drafts,
(10:13):
eight starters from those drafts, and yet this year they
had to bring in fifteen free agents, seven of whom
became instant starters. The Packers had like four free agents,
you know, they Xavier McKinnie and Josh Jacobs became starters
and that was it, you know, I mean, they were
the two teams built very differently because Minnesota is drafted poorly,
(10:37):
but what they've made up for it is with making
smart choices and decisions on players veteran free agents. The
Packers on the other end, you know, they have drafted
well and their team is going to be solidly built
for the future. But the Vikings had a lot of
guys on one year contracts that are playing lights out.
Andrew Van Ginkel got a two year contract. You know,
(10:58):
he's been terrific, you know, the old Wisconsin Badger. And
then you know there's this Grenard kid they got from Houston.
Gave him a pretty good sized contract and some years
on it. But everybody else about a one year contract.
Aaron Jones I think got a year maybe two. So
you know, there's my point is this, would you like
(11:20):
to build a team through the draft, frimarily home grown
players and all that. Yeah, I guess so, But that's
not the only way to win in the NFL. There
are many other ways to win, and you know one
of them is getting out there free agency, making the
right choices and then having coaching staff that can put
that together. And I'll tell you what this Kevin O'Connell,
he is outstanding on the offensive side, and Brian flore
(11:41):
Is is a magician on the defensive side. And that
team I watched him on tape the first three weeks
of the season. I said, God, I you know, it's
a week to week league. I was hoping, and I
was hoping the Vikings wouldn't be as good. It's what
I saw on tape. They were just as good that
first half as I saw on tape. Give the back
of credit that came back. They made a game of it,
(12:02):
as you would hope they would. The quarterback shook off
a lot of rust by the end of the game.
If fifty four passes into the mission, I think he
polished the chrome.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
So hopefully he go forward right here. But it's interesting
the way you hear the way you talk about. You know,
our NFL teams built their roster. Yes, you want to
draft and develop, but you need free agency, and that's
where the college games become too. You want to recruit
and develop, you want to bring in the high school
players and you want to develop them, but you also
have to hit the quortal and that's the transfer portal,
(12:31):
and that's the challenge that the college coaches face. You
want to build a program, but there's also probably increased
expectations that you can plug the gaps with a it
could be a one and done quarterback or one that
you name the position, and that's where the college guys
are getting used to it. In the case two of
the vikings quickly here you get a quarterback who'se you know,
(12:52):
resume has been what it is now he's the right fit.
You know, it's because of an injury to it, because
because of the injury to JJ McCarthy, and now Sam
Darnald comes in and at least in the early sample,
the short sample size going huh, well, you got to
be in the right system with the right you know,
the right combination of players. Doesn't hurt to have Justin Jefferson.
(13:13):
But like, okay, well this guy maybe he's better than
people thought.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
That's the other rub of the game. You know, yesterday
the Packers didn't have Jay Air Alexander, they didn't have
Carrington Valentine. Alexander is their best cover guy. You could
argue Carrington Valentine was moving ahead of Stokes, even though
Stokes is the number one draft choice number of years ago.
Carrington Valentine is probably their second best cover guy. Trying
to handle Minnesota Justin Jefferson without those people is tough.
(13:41):
But I will say this. You know, it's a long season,
and the thing about Sam Darnald that you have to
admire is that he got with the right coach who
believes in him, the right system. He said, a one year,
ten million dollar contract. If he keeps going the way
he's playing oh Man, back up the truck, Back up
(14:04):
that brings truck. We're going to back up this podcast
to get Michael Silver, the author of The Why Is Everything?
A Story of Pro Football rivalry and Revolution, and that's
coming up next.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Uw Credit Union's Mobile banking offers a simple way to
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Speaker 3 (14:31):
We welcome into the Laya Vi La Pey Podcast award
winning journalist Mike Silver, the author of a new book
entitled The Why Is Everything? A Story of Football rivalry
and Revolution. This is the story of young men, in
many cases brilliant coaches dominating the NFL. In what we're
being told today is the Shanahan offense and the Shanahan
(14:53):
coaching tree. Those of you of a certain vintage remember
the nineteen eighties, Remember Bill Walsh and the West offense. Well,
this is a this is the same type of revolution
we're seeing here today. Mike, thank you for taking time
out with It's great to be with you.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Thanks so much for having me. And I also go
back pretty far. So yeah, so back in the early nineties,
as a young newspaper be writer. I was covering the
forty nine Ers. Mike Shanahan, who wasn't battled, been fired
by Al Davis, fired by Dan Reeves. I rebuilt his
career as the forty nine Ers offensive coordinator with Steve Young,
(15:31):
who had his own issues of being beleaguered, mostly didn't
measure up to Joe Botanda, the fans, eyes, and Mike
Shannahan ended up taking those West Coast offense principles to
Denver when he became the head coach incorporated outside zone.
And that's kind of where we jump off and when
we start this story.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Michael. It's interesting because I was talking to Wayne before
you jumped on here. There was a book that Rob
Wober wrote. I think it's like I want to say.
It came out on twenty eight It was on Walsh,
Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcells, which makes me really eager to
get a copy of your book. If i't have told
if we would have told you then that the makeup
of the NFL the coaches would be as they are now,
(16:15):
what would you have thought?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
How would you have answered that in twenty eighteen or
of the nineties.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Well, even in those years where they were in their
heyday parcels of Wall and you know, yeah, just a
little bit, but parcels James and said we're gonna this
is sound. And now you compare that to this group
that you feature in your book.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Well, Walsh was obviously ahead of his time in professorial
but I don't think I ever would have envisioned someone
like Mike McDaniel being an NFL head coach, dry humor
working out his you know, stand up routee, you know,
one hundred and ten pounds, soaking wet by all appearances.
But yeah, things have changed, and I think one of
(16:54):
the biggest things that's changed is that you guys know
this for being around football for so long, it's been Hey,
we do it this way because that's how we've always
done it, and it works. Just listen to us, and
if a player wanted to know the purpose they were
shut down. Usually this group absolutely has to justify every
(17:16):
single element of the game plan to one another, and
they also want to be able to explain it to
the players. This is why we're doing it exactly this way,
this is the purpose behind it, and you've got to
trust us and be precise and it'll work for our listeners.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Mike Shanahan, as Michael just mentioned, had become a head coach.
Became head coach of the Denver Broncos. He's claimed the
famous back to back Super Bowls the last two years
of John Elway's career. The first Super Bowl they won
came against the Green Bay Packers team that was heavily
favored in defending Super Bowl champs. And I want to
(17:54):
say nineteen ninety seven or in ninety eight, I believe
it was twenty seven. And then at that point, all
of a sudden, Shanahan wins that Super Bowl. Everyone thinks
it's kind of a fluke. Okay, the next year they
win again. Then Elway retires. Shanahan went from genius to Okay,
what does he want without John Elpway that kind of thing.
(18:16):
But really where the genesis of this coaching thing came together,
he was back in the early or the late two
thousand and eight, in the two thousands, you know where,
two thousand and eight, two thousand and seven, somewhere around there.
Mike Shanahan is a beleaguered head coach of the Washington Redskins.
He's got Daniel Snyder, the owner, interfering and everything. He's
(18:38):
got this brilliant cat, he's got his son as an
offensive coordinator, and these brilliant young people around him that
nobody knows and they they That's where it all began, right,
that's where kind of odged.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Well. First, let me go back to that Packer Brocos
Super Bowl because I covered it for Sports Illustrated, and
one of the figs Mike Shanahan did was he figured
out a way to predict accurately whether Leroy Butler was
going to blitzer or not based on the formation they
were running. And because he ran a formation they had
(19:13):
only run out of I believe as a passing formation
in that game, he figured out that if they lined
up a certain way, they could predict Butler's movements and
mitigate him as a blitzer obviously a great blitzer from
the safety Spot Hall of Fame. There's a quote in
my game story to go to SI Vault where I
(19:33):
believe Shannon Sharp says we out coached him and we
talk about those specifics. But to me, that was an
example of Mike Shanahan's opponent specific game planning, which was
a real hallmark of what he was doing. Whereas holmebrid
it was also a great coach and had been his
predecessor in San Francisco as offensive coordinator. Olbrid was one
(19:55):
of those guys who's like, we have great players and plays.
We're going to run our stuff. We have answers for everything.
No one's going to be able to stop us, don't
worry about it. Shanahan was much more I'm going to
get inside the head of this defensive coordinator and try
to use that person's rules against them and then counter
the counters, which is really what all these guys do.
(20:17):
So now, Mike Shanahan, by the way, went back to
an AFC championship game with Jake Blubbers, so it's not
like he never won again. But in Washington, in Washington, yeah,
he got swallowed up by the Dan Snyder dysfunctioned like
so many others in the early twenty tens. And you're
right about that staff. But one thing they did that
blew the NFL community away in twenty twelve was when
(20:39):
they drafted Robert Griffin third, who had exclusively played out
of the pistol and had never taken a stab from
under center. This group, which included bout Leaflora, is a
key part of it Sean McVay Raheem Morris, now the
head coach of the Falcons, Kyle Shadahad was the outfensive coordinator,
and Mike McDaniel. They transported that entire Shanahan outside zone
(21:02):
offense and ran it out of the pistol, which is
more complicated than it sounds. And the league got no answers.
And you'll remember, it wasn't Russell Wilson, it wasn't Andrew
luck who won Rookie of the Year that year. It
was RG three. They got to they won the division,
hosted a playoff game, he heard his KD and then
the dysfunction engulfed everyone that next season. But in NFL circles,
(21:23):
people were like, whoa, what did they just do?
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And you have quarterback Kirk Cousins there too, right, which
kind of amplified the dysfunction that was going on.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
No, he was also a rookie. Kyle Shanahan insisted that
they draft him in the fourth round the same year
as RG three, So yeah, there was. And when RG
three missed the game late that season and Kirk Cousins,
in a more traditional Shad had attack lit it up
against Cleveland, it caused a lot of drama. One thing
I want to assure people with this book. I know
it sounds heavy football scheme and evolution. There's a lot
(21:58):
of pettiness and dirted here from the Kyle Shanah had
back Laflora falling out over the twenty twenty one trap
let up when there were reports the forty nine ers
were tried to trade for Aaron Rodgers and to the
chapter Kyle Shandaha and Sean McVay that's entitled enemy Friends,
which is a quote from Brahae Boris, and I'm pretty
(22:20):
sure he ordered it that way.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
For a reason.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
You know, it's really you. You're exactly right, Mike. One
of the things I wanted to applaud you on this
book is that it's not weighed down by x's and
o's that you have to figure out is for a layman,
if you just want to get an idea of how
these things come about, how these coaches came about. This
(22:43):
is a great read because there was so much I
can only imagine. And I said this to Matt Lafleura.
Over the last couple of weeks where they had Jordan
love Is out, they've got a quarterback, They've had for
like fifteen minutes in camp. He doesn't know anything, and
they construct gains over two weeks where they win two
games with Malik Willis, and it just I said to
(23:06):
man Lafoy, I said, I don't know how you slept
the last two weeks. Says the creative juice is and
energy and the creative tension must have been just phenomenal
in those meetings, and he had to be. But let's
go back to the start. Let's go back to Washington
here in two thousand and eight or thereabouts, and you've
got Lafloor, and you've got McVeigh, and you've got Shanahan,
(23:26):
and Shanahan's kind of running these guys. These guys are
little pups and he's beating them with a stick. And
I got the feeling it was not easy to work
for Kyle Shanahan. And in fact, you probably came away
saying I hate that guy.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Well it was love hate, But for BT Lafour after
the twenty sixteenth season in Aladda, when the Falcons came
so close toward that Super Bowl, Kyle Shadah had got
the forty nine or job, Sean McVay got the LA job,
Mat Lafloor thought about stay in Aladda, but ultimately wet
with Sean McVay and became the ram off it'sive coordinator.
(24:04):
And he told me it was time I was done
with Kyle. As much as he meant to me, and
as you know, as the good times we had, we
couldn't be around each other anymore. Now, what's funny is
that Sean and Matt who are closer. I Matt managed
to drive Sean crazy in la As another coach says
(24:24):
of the book, they must be really good friends because
the way they yelled at each other was like bide boggling.
And you know, Matt has, you know, an instigator's side
of him, where Sean would you know, point something out,
maybe in a the tension of a game situation and say,
all right, I don't want to hear about how they're
(24:46):
blitzing off the backside. I got to cover. And then
there'd be a pause that Matt would go, hey, Sean,
watch that backside blitz and Selwin lose his mind. So
that's that's that's quote is I'm a glutton for punishment.
He definitely seems to be willing to hitch the gate
and Matt. You know, that's a very sincere, earnest guy,
(25:06):
and that crew kind of wondered how he'd be once
he got into the head coaching role. There's a story
of the book. Back in Washington, they're on a team flight.
Chris Cooley, the character who was their star tight end,
decides he's gonna live it up the flight and do
a prank. So he passes out pens and paper to
(25:27):
every player and announces that he's doing a poll ranking
the assistant coaches in terms of who they like more.
And of course it's a fake poll, but he goes
through the entire exercise and then Cooley announces the results
and Matt Lafleur, according to his results, is the second
least popular assistant coach, and they see that Matt's eyes
(25:50):
welled up with tears. He was so upset that he
was that disliked, even though it was a rigged election. So,
uh yeah, you know, that's come a long way, and
he really runs, you know, probably the closest to the
pure Kyle Shanahan offense of all of them. But wow,
what a job he has done, including Wow, you you
(26:11):
mentioned it in twenty twenty four with Malik Willis. I
mean if you took a blind poll book in August
of all NFL coaches and talent evaluators and said, all right,
there's a quarterback right now on a roster. He's gonna
go to a new team with you know, just cold
and win two games as the starter at September. I
(26:32):
don't think Malik Willis would have gotten any votes. And
you know, obviously what Matt has done with Jordan Love.
You know, you know, with Aaron Rodgers, they made magic together,
but it's one of the all time breaks. Jordan Love
has a chance to be really, really good. But you
know that that got a lot of people's attention.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
I was curious as much Michael as the NFL or
football in gymal I work in the college world, and
usually everything is it's four knocks just trying to get
to get access. Was what was that like for you
to be able to get I mean, you develop relationships,
they trust your fairness. Well, what was that process like
just getting the access you were able to get to
this book?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Well, you know, I do go way back with most
or all of them, which really helps, and including Mike Shanahan.
So I really enjoyed great access here which helped. It
also helped that I was kind of on this, you know,
years before I actually wrote a proposal. I just saw
what was happening. And I've watched Kyle very closely for
(27:32):
a long time. I've noticed since he was a kid.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Because of his.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Father, got to know Matt and Mike McDaniel and Sean
mczay and Raheem I had known for a while, and
I was just like, Wow, these guys are different, and
you know, I really felt like we saw a sea
change happening in the sport where the meatheads are big
overtaken by the scientists. To oversimplify a little, but basically,
(27:55):
I was hanged with these guys anyway. They're fun. Even
after he stopped drinking. Mike McDaniel's like the life of
the party when you're out with him. It turned out
he didn't even need the booze. But yeah, you know,
because of those relationships, I was able to get great access.
The only guy who really pushed back was Kyle, who
I've known for so long, and you know, I still
(28:18):
cover him and got good access in the course of
doing my day job, but specifically for this project. He
didn't love the idea of a book coming out on
him or partly on him while he's still coaching. So
we kind of navigated our way through that. But I
know that you'll read it and see that there's quite
(28:38):
a bit of you know, Kyle access and it worked
out great.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Is it fair to say like people describe him? And again,
I'm a college my time is in college, but Kyle
Shanahan is an acquired taste. He can he can kind
of give you the Heisman polls just so you stay
back there and I'll do my thing. Is that fair? Well?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I would say this, You know, he be really charming
what he wants to be, but it's not as important
to him as it is to say Sean McVay as
that you know, win the room, look in the eye,
leadership flair. Kyle is much more intent dot I'm just
gonna scheme it and beat you that way. But he's
(29:19):
gotten a lot better. But I would say this, you know,
he knew he was good, or at least believed he
was from a very early age and didn't go to
Great Lakes to hide it. And so he was definitely
viewed to the coaches community early on, especially as you know,
a guy who could have been more diplomatic. You know,
(29:39):
you heard the nepotism, you heard the title bit. And
he had some high profile conflicts with players that we
talk about in this book that didn't help Donovan McNabb,
RG three, Johnny Manziel, Roddy White. So he developed a
partly earned reputation for someone who wasn't great on the
people side. He's definitely gotten better at its nu ods.
(30:01):
But yeah, you know he and I have butted heads,
just like he and everyone else of this book. And
yet you know that's you know what it's like at
this job. We did, we just but had Sometimes it happens.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Michael Silver, the author of the Why Is Everything? A
story of football rivalry and revolution. It is what the
NFL is becoming today, folks. It is the Shanahan impact
on pro football today, very similar to what Bill Walsh
did in the eighties. And you know, when I let
(30:38):
me ask you this, okay, it is my impression. Did
all of these guys, and I work on a regular
basis with Lafleur, did all of these guys came through
a pretty difficult bold fire branding to get where they
are today at the hand of the taskmaster Kyle Shanahan
(30:58):
is that what you're a prision is.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Well partly that, but just their backstories are wild if
you look at you know, Matt Lafleur coming from an
unassuming college pedigree and getting his big break to come
down to Houston and be part of that staff. And
I love that story. Where Mad is driving, he gets
a call from Robert Sala, his friend now the coach
(31:23):
of the Jets, who was already on that staff. Hey,
I could get you in. He's gonna have to take
a pay cut. He tells his now wife Brie, I
gotta go. I'm just packing my duffel bag and get
to the car and he's thicking maybe I'll drive all night,
but starting to get tired. He doesn't have a lot
of money, and he decides, you know what, maybe I'll
(31:44):
just crash by the side of the road. And he
sees that he is in Hope, Arkansas, so he says, well,
that's where Bill Clinton is from, a town called Oat.
How it must be a nice place, right it produced
a president. So he decides to go to a Walmart
parking lot get a few hours of sleep. He wakes
up at about five point thirty of the morning and
let's just say that you needed hope to hope that
(32:07):
you weren't going to get carjacked in the neighborhood he
was in because it was not that night, he said.
He's thinking what did I do? So he gets out,
He gets to Houston, crashes at Robert Sola's house, shows
up for work the next day and Kyle snehad has
just been promoted to offensive coordinator after being a position coach,
and it's the first meeting. Matt shows up his first
(32:28):
day of work, and Matt's thinking, this guy's the same
age as me. I've I've been running an offense in college.
How much more could he know? At the first meeting,
Kyle's late, he somehow overslept and it's the first his
first day is offensive coordinator, youngest offensive coordinator in the league.
And now Matt's going, this guy, Oh my slacker ne
(32:50):
bo baby, I'm gonna dominate him. And then he said
about thirty minutes of talking football with Kyle, and Matt's like,
oh God, this guy knows way more than me. I've
been trouble. I gotta I gotta step up my game.
But yeah, they all they all came through some kind
of unusual circumstances. Kyle was the most clear path because
of his father. But then in Washington, they all saw
(33:15):
Mike Shanahan, this great coach who should be in the
Hall of Fame and probably will be soon. They saw
him not only get fired and you know, lose, lose
you know, his luster in Washington, but that ended his
coaching career. He never got another job. And Sean McVay
told me, those scars, what we saw Mike Shanahan go through,
(33:36):
who was like our idol. We think about that all
the time. And Sean said, you know, I need to
check myself not to take things for granted, because I
got to LA and we started winning, and you gotta remember, like,
it's not always like this in the NFL at all,
and you've really got to cherish it when you're in
a good situation.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
It always seems like one of the mysteries of the
NFL guys, because people you don't have to be a
diehard NFL fan to know how dysfunctional the Washington franchise was.
Guys get fired all the time, right, Why why do
you think Michael or you two Wade, why didn't he
get another job?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
You know, I think hardly was the stench of that situation,
and partly he was a little bit older, but I'm
still surprised he talked to the Raiders of all people
one off season. Now al Davis for younger people, what
he did to Late Kiffin, That's basically what happened to
Mike Shanah had in his second year as a young,
(34:37):
hotshot coach. Then Al Davis tried to stiff them out
of the money. It was a there's a story of
the book that I remember reporting for Sports Illustrated back
in the day because Mike Shanahan had told it to me.
But he and Al Davis, it was, had this horrible dispute,
including over the buddy and the forty nine ers are
playing the Raiders and Mike Shanna has the offensive coordinator now,
(34:59):
so he says to Elvis Gerbach, who at that time
is Steve Young's backup quarterback, Hey, you see that guy
over across the field pregame. See that guy over across
the field in the white sweatsuit, which of course was
always Al Davis's attire, and pretty far away and he said,
Elvis says yeah, and Mike said, I want you to
take this football and I want you to throw it
(35:19):
as hard as you can, right at him, and Elvis
kind of laugh and Mike goes, you know, looks him
right in the eye. He says, I'm bleeping serious, throw
this football in his head or else, like I'm your boss.
So elviskirback goes back, throws a tight spiral and it's
coming right in al Davis's head. At the last second,
Elsie's a coming, goes like this, ducks out of the way,
(35:42):
falls to the grass, the ball passes up. He comes
up staring at Mike Shanahan and Mike Shanahan who's waving
at him, and that gives him an upseved gesture to underscoreing.
So very competitive guy. Mike didn't quite have the arm
to get it there, but he had a guy he
could manipulate to get it there.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Watch it, Yeah, exactly. You know, it's interesting. And man,
you bring up a good point why some of the
why was it Bill Belichick hired this year? You know,
I mean, why didn't Shanahan get a job after that
Washington situation? And Mike, the only thing I can say
is that you know that ownership in the NFL is
(36:23):
a very small and tight fraternity, and if somebody accumulates
a certain amount of dirt on them, then they you know,
they can actually get banished it.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
You know, although although if the person accumulated the dirt
is Dan Snyder there may be a caveat. But the
Belichick finks interesting because I saw that as part of
this sea change because Ray Morris. So, Ray Morris was
the young coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers after John
Bruden's surprise firing and they rebuilt. They had a young,
(36:57):
cheap roster, and he actually got him to tenor six
a year two and then got fired after year three.
He admittedly was not nearly as mature back then, and
it took a long long time for Rae Morris to
get another chance. And at what point Kyle Shannon had
switched him over to offense and made him his receivers
coach in Atlanta, which we get into in the books.
(37:19):
So he's unbelievably well routed. I've got a story. I
think Matt's gonna like this one because you know, you
mentioned Dan Snyder. Steve Spurrier was there. You know, we saw, Okay,
here's a great one for you. So after the twenty
twenty season. Rahee Morris had been the interim coach of
the Falcons after Dad Quinn was fired. He interviews for
(37:40):
the big job and he doesn't get it, and it
looks like Urban Buyer, who's coming to take the Jags job,
is gonna make Raheem Morris's defensive coordinator at Jacksonville. Raheem's like, okay,
but I wonder what else is out there. So Urban
calls himout a Friday and says, this is great, We're
gonna do this. Why don't you come down when we'll
(38:00):
do the interview and we'll lock it up. And Raheem's
pupping his fist because he's like, sweet, he just bought
me five days. And Urban Buyer is so clueless about
how competitive the NFL highering cycle is and how fast
you have to move that he just goes, yeah, come
out in five days. Well, at the end of that
five day period, Brandon Staley surprisingly gets the charger's job,
(38:23):
leaving Sean McVay without a defensive coordinator. Sean calls Raheem,
who's having steak a steak dinner with his wife, and
he's like, don't get on the plane to Jacksonville co
work for me and because of that, Raheem Morris goes
to LA and helps Sean McVay win a Super Bowl
and ultimately goes back as the Falcons head coach and
stays out of the blender. That was Urban Meyer's disastrous
(38:47):
stitch to Jacksonville where he's kicking the kicker and you
guys know all about it. Yeah, but I just love
that Urban Byer was so clueless about how the NFL
works that he lost out on a great defensive coordinator.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Yeah, college Hall of Fame level coach. College and but yeah,
Darryl Bebble we knew up here obviously from his time
as Wisconsin's quarterback, was the offensive coordinator. I'm sure there's
a book there that Daryl could write it, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
And by the way, you see my Cal held Justin Wilcox,
I know you had him. So yes, we're really really excited.
He's been there a long time. It's not the easiest
place to turn around, but Cal's actually hosting college game
day for the first time ever on Saturday. Well, let's
coming to Berkeley and Miami's coming to town. Uh so
(39:38):
there's a lot of excitement at Berkeley and yeah, Justin's
just as a great dude. And I know he loved
his time. I mean, who doesn't, but he loved his
tibe in Madison.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
He was here one year if Paul Chris was the
head coach, and Jad raved about him. And now and
like we all predicted, Cal would be a member of
the ACC, which now stands for the All Coast Conference.
Not that dealtica that is.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
That is true, but we didn't start the fire. And
I would just like to ask you truth as a
cow person. I know it didn't work out this last weekend,
but if you could put a beating on UCLA, Oregon,
Washington at USC as much as possible, it would warm
my heart. Uh. UCLA's big ten opener that brought joy
(40:23):
to me. It's a September warm day at the Rose Bowl,
and Indiana came in and beat him by about seventy
nine points. I gotta tell you that was Indiana teaming
up with Carba. It was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
I did. I was able to check the box. Wisconsin
just played out at the Coliseum this week against USC.
First half went great, second half not so much. But
I'm still I'm like you guys, I'm I mean, it
was fun selfishly to call a game in the LA Coliseum. Man,
I missed the Pack twelve, you know, Pack eight, Pac
ten packed. Yelp, that's just not it's just a different world.
(41:01):
But not I hear you. I understand.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
And we've had no Rose Bull in my lifetime. That's
our Holy Braille. We kind of got robbed from us
by the BCS when Aaron Rodgers was there, and now
our Rose Bull dream is even less probably, I mean
there's still technically a way, but like you'd have to
win the ACC, win your first round game, and then
hope you were in the quarter final. That is the
(41:25):
Rose Bowl.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
But we're gonna keep up alive here, that's right. How
often do you keep in touch with that former Cal quarterback?
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Uh, you know a decent amount. I went out there
in trading camp and they were having joint workouts against
the Giants, and he looked unbelievable. You know, I'm not surprising,
but I was like, WHOA, he's back, and then had
a great talk with him. Wrote about it. They opened
against the forty dine ers. I covered that game sabb afterwards,
(41:54):
wrote about it, but I was like, I've seen enough
in that game, and I was getting kind of pummeled
as tends to happen to me social media, and people
are like, oh he lost he And then week three
everyone saw it and they were like, oh yeah, so
you know, look, it just was one year too long.
It was such a great run of Green Bay, and
(42:14):
there was an accumulation of stuff, as you know, we
get into all of it in the book and including
some pretty revealing stuff from that's perspective about that last year.
But cleterarally, it was one year too long. That's unfortunate.
But I think Aaron's in a better place now, has
a chance to finish, you know, on his terms. And
if I had known that that was gonna do this,
(42:35):
not only would Jordan Love but Malik Willis, I would
have said, it's good for everyone because the world is
now seeing just how good a coach mat is. And
you know, I love coming to Green Bay. I love
driving down you know, Mike McCarthy Street and every you know,
but like Holme Grewn Way, but like, man, if there
(42:56):
could ever be a little floor lane or something that
would be pretty.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yeah, they don't have to win a Super Bowl.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
Yes they will.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
They will have to win a Super but in any
other NFL city, you would win a Super Bowl and
not have a straight name after you. You know, I
will say this, However, if col does go to the
Rose bullsabow, there will be a justin Wilcott's Boulevard, I
promise you, because in the great tradition of Berkeley and protesting,
(43:24):
I will stage the one man sitting in the Berkeley
City Council until it happens.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
I won't leave, no man. Berkeley and Madison, those are
protest capitals without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yes, yeah, and listen, you guys win on the beer,
of course, but we try to hold up our head
like it's not because we don't drink a lot of it.
We just don't. You know, we don't have spotted cow
and some of that. But like we we wore hard,
play hard, trust me speaking of that.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
You know, we don't have the time to do this.
But at some point way we've got to get Michael back,
because if the book came out it was the late nineties. Wayne,
your years covering the bulls. You do a book with
Dennis Rodman and you have stories to last three lifetimes.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Oh man, I just yes, and you know you know
it's bad when the last dance is on during the
pandemic and the Rodman episode where he goes to Vegas.
It disappears, and I'm getting texted from tons of people.
Some people had heard from it a while and they're like, dude,
were you on that trip? And literally I'm like, I
(44:28):
don't think I was on that one. I'm not one
hundred percent sure because there were a few of them,
but yeah, I did. I did books back to back
on Dennis Rodman and Kirk Order, who doesn't get any
different than that that, And then I took a nineteen
year break. I'm back with The Why Is Everything, which
is out Tuesday, October first, everywhere there also obviously Amazon
(44:52):
and anywhere you get it online. It's a bookstores, the
links are all over by social media bio. I think
everyone's gonna like it, and I I really think packer
fads especially are gonna get some insight into Battlefloor and
some of the things that have gone on, especially since
twenty nineteen. And thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
It's been it's been a one last question if I
can't Michael Michael Ardle's or the author of The Why
Is Everything? Of these coaches we're talking about, Raheem Morris,
Mike McDaniel, Sean McVay, Matt Lafleur, who is most like Shanahan?
Would you say.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
That's funny? I well beg McDaniel isn't like anyone, not
just a coaching like I think on Earth, like he's
he's the most unique person. Raheem is very different than
all of them in that Raheem could be hard and
you know, competitive, but he's his sets of humor at
his charm are so extensive that he could say brutal
(45:55):
things to you at it's five. Like he's so well liked.
I think Sean and Kyle are so different and yet
they're becoming more alike. So maybe him And then yeah, Matt,
I think patterned himself after Kyle the most, but has
definitely done it a different way. And I'll leave you
with this. I actually defended Kyle Shanahan after this last
(46:17):
Super Bowl. I liked his decisions of the way he
approached it. But that Packer game I wrote and believed
that Matt Lafloor out coached him in the playoffs. I
thought the boldness and the way that Matt you know
had the Packers you know, ready to go was a
site to behold. I remember walking through the tunnel with
Matt as he was very upset, but walking to the bus,
(46:39):
and I just expressed that to him that I really
thought he you know, brought it, and he said yeah,
and I'll never not coach that way again, so that
I kind of got chills. I was like, A right,
because there's gonna be a lot more where that came from.
So yeah, I'm really, you know, really lucky to have
spent so much time with all of them. But then again,
(47:01):
they were lucky to spend it with me. I think
everyone's gonna like the boo yeah, gury he'll ardly.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
Well, I'm ordered. I can't wait to get it. It's
gonna be a lot of fun to read.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Oh it's all right, one book, it really is. Well listen,
we'll we'll chop it up again soon and the bee time.
Enjoy the Badgers and everything about that beautiful campus.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
There we go, we'll do we'll do here.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Thanks so much, and thank we'll be John Wayne, all right, guys,
I appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Take care.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Thanks thanks man, really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Well, that does it for us this time. Special thanks
to author Michael Silver, whose new book Though Why Is
Everything is an absolute must read for any football fan.
Our producer engineer is Dave McCann. Our executive producer Jeff Tyler.
For Matt, this is Wayne. Thank you very much for
listening to the lera of the in La Pay podcast.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
The Leravan the Pay podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
Podcasts with hosts Wayne Lravy and Matt Lay, with production
engineering by Dave McCann. The Leravie la Pe podcast is
presented by UW Credit Union. Here for every you listen
to other episodes available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
See that guy over across the field in the white sweatsuit,
which of course was always al Davis's attire, and pretty
far away, and he said, Elvis says yeah, and Mike said,
I want you to take this football and I want
you to throw it as hard as you can, right
at him, and Elvis kind of laugh and Mike goes,
you know, looks him right in the eye. He says,
I'm bleeping serious, throw this football in his head or else,
(00:23):
like I'm your boss. So Elvi Skirback goes back, throws
a tight spiral and it's coming right in al Davis's head.
At the last second, Elsie's a coming goes like this,
ducks out of the way, falls to the grass, the
ball passes up. He comes up staring at Mike Shannan
and Mike Shanahan is waving at him, and that gives
him an ubcend gesture to underscore it. So very competitive
(00:47):
guy Mike didn't quite have the arm to get it there,
but he had a guy he could manipulate to get
it there.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
This is the Laravian La Pay podcast, a production of
iHeartRadio Podcasts with hosts Wayne Lerevie, the voice of the
Green Bay Packers and Matt Lapey, the voice of Wisconsin
Badgers football and men's basketball. The Laravian La Pey Podcast
is presented by UW Credit Union.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Here for every U.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
HI, everybody, I'm Wayne Laravie. Hey, I'm Matt Lapey.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
On this episode of the Laravie La pay Podcast, disappointing
losses for the Badgers in southern California the Packers to
the Vikings in Green Bay this past weekend. Chop it
up a little bit on that, but what we really
want to get to our guest is award winning sports
journalist Michael Silver, whose new book, The Why Is Everything
chronicles the latest coaching trend in the National Football League.
(01:39):
Stay tuned, We've got good stuff coming up on the
Lerovian la Pey Podcast. Ready to give fees the stiff arm.
UW Credit Union can help because since nineteen thirty one,
they've been committed to eliminating fees for members. Join today
at UWCU dot org. Insured by NCUA. Terms and conditions apply.
(02:01):
All right, Matt, you're fresh back from Southern California. We
talked last week about how you know, I built up
the conloseum for you. You've got a beautiful southern California day.
The Badgers played a heck of a first half. There
was a crowd of over what seventy thousand there. It
looked great, it sounded great, everything was going well, and
(02:22):
then they had to play the second half. But give
me your impressions. What did you make of your first
trip to the Conloseum.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
You know what I did, a joy. We talked for
the deal the last part. I'm one of those like
sports history geeks, you know, if it was the Oakland
Coliseum or any of the great venues in the college world.
The Camp Rantle obviously is Iconomy Ohio Stadium sold on
and so forth, Michigan Stadium. But I had not worked
a game at the LA Colliseum, and I was I
(02:48):
kind of I had low expectations going in at the
building itself, but they had the renovations had been really good,
like were reworked the game. It was terrific. The locker room,
visiting locker room very tiny. Wayne. Apparently, as the story goes,
that's when the Raiders were there, and al Davis wanted
it to be as as crappy a locker room as
possible for the visiting team. And apparently remains that way,
(03:11):
which is part of the charm of football or of
sports in general. But yeah, I just I kind of
as you suggested. I followed your suggestion. I came down
the tunnel, you know, leading from the we're both teams,
into the field and just just took it in. And
it was you can't help if you're a sports fan
(03:33):
of any kind, you walk into a place like that
and you can't help. But think of the athletes, you know,
football obviously, but not just football, the Olympic games, the
big events that had been there over the course of time.
And I just for a long time, I wasn't very
good at doing this. So now maybe because of older
you know, you don't know anywhere laps you're going to
have doing this stuff like I got to take this in, man,
(03:54):
this is and the field itself, Wayne, I mean, I
told Tauscher I would three putt. But it was like
a green I mean, it was just I mean, it
was like the Rose Bowl and how closely he'll tighten
it cut And I guess they resided maybe or they
have to do them work on it three times or
so a year. But it was a beautiful fast track
(04:17):
and it was, you know, the outcome was what the
outcome was, but just being in there for it was
a lot.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
For Yeah, Oh it's such a spectacular venue in part
because of all that's happened there, but it also is
a big ball. It's a big arena and that end
zone to the right side from the press box. You know,
you just you feel the history there, same as you
do with the Rose Bull as I know you're you
love the roads Ball as I do, and you know,
(04:44):
those certain stadiums you can really feel it, really feel
what happened there, all the people who had been there,
the different things that happened in that building. I think
they're going to have fourth or fifth Olympics there coming up.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
I mean I think it'll be the third one and
I'll have X number of events. They're going to do
a lot at so far as you would imagine. But yeah,
there was what nineteen thirty two and then nineteen eighty.
It's hard for me to believe the I mean, I
pretty decent memory of the nineteen eighty Olympic Games in LA.
But they're in Yes, in twenty twenty eight, they will
(05:17):
they will do it again. So it's just but yeah,
so many other events have been their first hall with
the LA Dodgers before Dodgers Stadium was out. It is,
you know, it's not because of the maybe the age
of it too. It's not a stadium that holds noise
particularly well. Or maybe it's just the LA thing. You know,
you come, you arrive fashionably late. But it was. It
was technically a sellout and there was a big crowd there.
(05:39):
You know, for the first half. The Badgers were playing
awfully well and even like you look at retrospect, they're
down three going into the fourth quarters. They would you
take that, you know, going in there, Yeah, you would
have put the way the game unfolded, you could just
kind of feel that the wheels start to come off
of that.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah, you know, Matt, how good is sc I mean,
are they top twenty solid or they?
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah? Yeah, I think they're They're a top twenty team
at least as we see them right now. I think
the quarterback Miller Bosses, he's a gamer. He made some
big time throws.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
He's got some big, tall receivers, strong who can get
contested balls. Uh. Jakobe Lane had a had a career
day and then of a receiver Douche Robinson, who's who's
who caught a touchdown pass? He's six six. He could
do a lot of things well defensively, but sometimes if
you're not six six, if you're closer to six feet,
(06:34):
you know, if they throw it in the right spot,
there's not too much you can do about that. So
they're I think, Wayne, they're better than the eight win
team they were last year. I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily
say they're a playoff team quite yet, but it's a good,
solid football team out there. And what do you make.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Of the contrast between USC and UCLA. Why is US
UCLA fallen so far off of that level the USC
has been on and is on.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Yeah, you get the impression. The resources, particularly now within
the NIL world, it's just a bigger deal. I think
for USC they got their coordinator Danton Land, the son
of Anthony for NFL head coach. There's a lot of
staff now in the league, but there were some players
from UCLA who came over as well, and I think
(07:25):
there's just, hey, from what I understand, just better in
IL opportunities at USC. Look U c l A. You're right,
there's certainly a tradition there. But USC when you think
college football and Los Angeles, you're going to think US
seems first. But now the Heisman Trophy winners and the
UCLA has had its runs. Terry Donna, you you know,
(07:45):
did a great job there certainly. But when you think
U c l A, you try to think basketball. And
when you think U c l A, you think, you know,
from Charles White, doj SiZ and Reggie and you know,
all the great players who have rolled through their sc
comes to mind. The brand is just bigger football.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yeah, seems to be. Well, the Packers the Vikings had
their one hundred and twenty eighth meeting and it was
one of the more stranger ones that I've seen. You know,
the Vikings get up twenty eight nothing and in lambeau Field,
and wow, you know, I give the Packers a lot
of credit. They came back the second half. They certainly
(08:27):
made a game of it. But to get when the
fact they were down twenty eight nothing in the first
place was eye opening.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
That's the thing. I you know, there's there's always the
backlash with a kicker struggles and and I get that,
but you fall behind twenty eight nothing, that's that's a problem.
But I but as you said, Wall, you got to
get the Vikings credit because they were probably the least
well not probably. I think I can say this with competence,
the least talked about team in this division. Yes, certainly
(08:57):
the Lions with what they did, the Hope with the
Chicago Bears, Caleb Williams and you know, so on and
so forth, and clearly the way the Packers played in
the second half of last year, the Vikings were. It's
in a lot of ways seem like an afterthought. They're
not an afterthought anymore. I guess the question is can
they sustain it.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
They start well, and Matt, you know on the NFL level,
I mean I know the college level too, but in
the NFL level, it gets down to injuries after a while.
I mean, people wonder, well, why is San Francisco struggling?
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Are they?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Well, they're struggling because they've got a lot of people
out the Rams whom the Packers go out to play
this week. They're without their two all pro receivers and
they're not going to have them this week. I don't think,
you know, injuries have such an impact on that NFL product.
Right now, the Vikings are playing at a different level.
(09:50):
They really are, and it's a credit to them. It's
a credit to the way they put that team together.
What was interesting, Matt is when I broke down the
two rosters, you looked at how they were built, and
if you go back to the draft starting from twenty
twenty to now, in those five drafts, the Packers had
twenty eight players still on their roster, twelve starters out
of those drafts. Minnesota Vikings had eighteen players on their drafts,
(10:13):
eight starters from those drafts, and yet this year they
had to bring in fifteen free agents, seven of whom
became instant starters. The Packers had like four free agents,
you know, they Xavier McKinnie and Josh Jacobs became starters
and that was it, you know, I mean, they were
the two teams built very differently because Minnesota is drafted poorly,
(10:37):
but what they've made up for it is with making
smart choices and decisions on players veteran free agents. The
Packers on the other end, you know, they have drafted
well and their team is going to be solidly built
for the future. But the Vikings had a lot of
guys on one year contracts that are playing lights out.
Andrew Van Ginkel got a two year contract. You know,
(10:58):
he's been terrific, you know, the old Wisconsin Badger. And
then you know there's this Grenard kid they got from Houston.
Gave him a pretty good sized contract and some years
on it. But everybody else about a one year contract.
Aaron Jones I think got a year maybe two. So
you know, there's my point is this, would you like
(11:20):
to build a team through the draft, frimarily home grown
players and all that. Yeah, I guess so, But that's
not the only way to win in the NFL. There
are many other ways to win, and you know one
of them is getting out there free agency, making the
right choices and then having coaching staff that can put
that together. And I'll tell you what this Kevin O'Connell,
he is outstanding on the offensive side, and Brian flore
(11:41):
Is is a magician on the defensive side. And that
team I watched him on tape the first three weeks
of the season. I said, God, I you know, it's
a week to week league. I was hoping, and I
was hoping the Vikings wouldn't be as good. It's what
I saw on tape. They were just as good that
first half as I saw on tape. Give the back
of credit that came back. They made a game of it,
(12:02):
as you would hope they would. The quarterback shook off
a lot of rust by the end of the game.
If fifty four passes into the mission, I think he
polished the chrome.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
So hopefully he go forward right here. But it's interesting
the way you hear the way you talk about. You know,
our NFL teams built their roster. Yes, you want to
draft and develop, but you need free agency, and that's
where the college games become too. You want to recruit
and develop, you want to bring in the high school
players and you want to develop them, but you also
have to hit the quortal and that's the transfer portal,
(12:31):
and that's the challenge that the college coaches face. You
want to build a program, but there's also probably increased
expectations that you can plug the gaps with a it
could be a one and done quarterback or one that
you name the position, and that's where the college guys
are getting used to it. In the case two of
the vikings quickly here you get a quarterback who'se you know,
(12:52):
resume has been what it is now he's the right fit.
You know, it's because of an injury to it, because
because of the injury to JJ McCarthy, and now Sam
Darnald comes in and at least in the early sample,
the short sample size going huh, well, you got to
be in the right system with the right you know,
the right combination of players. Doesn't hurt to have Justin Jefferson.
(13:13):
But like, okay, well this guy maybe he's better than
people thought.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
That's the other rub of the game. You know, yesterday
the Packers didn't have Jay Air Alexander, they didn't have
Carrington Valentine. Alexander is their best cover guy. You could
argue Carrington Valentine was moving ahead of Stokes, even though
Stokes is the number one draft choice number of years ago.
Carrington Valentine is probably their second best cover guy. Trying
to handle Minnesota Justin Jefferson without those people is tough.
(13:41):
But I will say this. You know, it's a long season,
and the thing about Sam Darnald that you have to
admire is that he got with the right coach who
believes in him, the right system. He said, a one year,
ten million dollar contract. If he keeps going the way
he's playing oh Man, back up the truck, Back up
(14:04):
that brings truck. We're going to back up this podcast
to get Michael Silver, the author of The Why Is Everything?
A Story of Pro Football rivalry and Revolution, and that's
coming up next.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
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Speaker 3 (14:31):
We welcome into the Laya Vi La Pey Podcast award
winning journalist Mike Silver, the author of a new book
entitled The Why Is Everything? A Story of Football rivalry
and Revolution. This is the story of young men, in
many cases brilliant coaches dominating the NFL. In what we're
being told today is the Shanahan offense and the Shanahan
(14:53):
coaching tree. Those of you of a certain vintage remember
the nineteen eighties, Remember Bill Walsh and the West offense. Well,
this is a this is the same type of revolution
we're seeing here today. Mike, thank you for taking time
out with It's great to be with you.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Thanks so much for having me. And I also go
back pretty far. So yeah, so back in the early nineties,
as a young newspaper be writer. I was covering the
forty nine Ers. Mike Shanahan, who wasn't battled, been fired
by Al Davis, fired by Dan Reeves. I rebuilt his
career as the forty nine Ers offensive coordinator with Steve Young,
(15:31):
who had his own issues of being beleaguered, mostly didn't
measure up to Joe Botanda, the fans, eyes, and Mike
Shannahan ended up taking those West Coast offense principles to
Denver when he became the head coach incorporated outside zone.
And that's kind of where we jump off and when
we start this story.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Michael. It's interesting because I was talking to Wayne before
you jumped on here. There was a book that Rob
Wober wrote. I think it's like I want to say.
It came out on twenty eight It was on Walsh,
Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcells, which makes me really eager to
get a copy of your book. If i't have told
if we would have told you then that the makeup
of the NFL the coaches would be as they are now,
(16:15):
what would you have thought?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
How would you have answered that in twenty eighteen or
of the nineties.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Well, even in those years where they were in their
heyday parcels of Wall and you know, yeah, just a
little bit, but parcels James and said we're gonna this
is sound. And now you compare that to this group
that you feature in your book.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Well, Walsh was obviously ahead of his time in professorial
but I don't think I ever would have envisioned someone
like Mike McDaniel being an NFL head coach, dry humor
working out his you know, stand up routee, you know,
one hundred and ten pounds, soaking wet by all appearances.
But yeah, things have changed, and I think one of
(16:54):
the biggest things that's changed is that you guys know
this for being around football for so long, it's been Hey,
we do it this way because that's how we've always
done it, and it works. Just listen to us, and
if a player wanted to know the purpose they were
shut down. Usually this group absolutely has to justify every
(17:16):
single element of the game plan to one another, and
they also want to be able to explain it to
the players. This is why we're doing it exactly this way,
this is the purpose behind it, and you've got to
trust us and be precise and it'll work for our listeners.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Mike Shanahan, as Michael just mentioned, had become a head coach.
Became head coach of the Denver Broncos. He's claimed the
famous back to back Super Bowls the last two years
of John Elway's career. The first Super Bowl they won
came against the Green Bay Packers team that was heavily
favored in defending Super Bowl champs. And I want to
(17:54):
say nineteen ninety seven or in ninety eight, I believe
it was twenty seven. And then at that point, all
of a sudden, Shanahan wins that Super Bowl. Everyone thinks
it's kind of a fluke. Okay, the next year they
win again. Then Elway retires. Shanahan went from genius to Okay,
what does he want without John Elpway that kind of thing.
(18:16):
But really where the genesis of this coaching thing came together,
he was back in the early or the late two
thousand and eight, in the two thousands, you know where,
two thousand and eight, two thousand and seven, somewhere around there.
Mike Shanahan is a beleaguered head coach of the Washington Redskins.
He's got Daniel Snyder, the owner, interfering and everything. He's
(18:38):
got this brilliant cat, he's got his son as an
offensive coordinator, and these brilliant young people around him that
nobody knows and they they That's where it all began, right,
that's where kind of odged.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Well. First, let me go back to that Packer Brocos
Super Bowl because I covered it for Sports Illustrated, and
one of the figs Mike Shanahan did was he figured
out a way to predict accurately whether Leroy Butler was
going to blitzer or not based on the formation they
were running. And because he ran a formation they had
(19:13):
only run out of I believe as a passing formation
in that game, he figured out that if they lined
up a certain way, they could predict Butler's movements and
mitigate him as a blitzer obviously a great blitzer from
the safety Spot Hall of Fame. There's a quote in
my game story to go to SI Vault where I
(19:33):
believe Shannon Sharp says we out coached him and we
talk about those specifics. But to me, that was an
example of Mike Shanahan's opponent specific game planning, which was
a real hallmark of what he was doing. Whereas holmebrid
it was also a great coach and had been his
predecessor in San Francisco as offensive coordinator. Olbrid was one
(19:55):
of those guys who's like, we have great players and plays.
We're going to run our stuff. We have answers for everything.
No one's going to be able to stop us, don't
worry about it. Shanahan was much more I'm going to
get inside the head of this defensive coordinator and try
to use that person's rules against them and then counter
the counters, which is really what all these guys do.
(20:17):
So now, Mike Shanahan, by the way, went back to
an AFC championship game with Jake Blubbers, so it's not
like he never won again. But in Washington, in Washington, yeah,
he got swallowed up by the Dan Snyder dysfunctioned like
so many others in the early twenty tens. And you're
right about that staff. But one thing they did that
blew the NFL community away in twenty twelve was when
(20:39):
they drafted Robert Griffin third, who had exclusively played out
of the pistol and had never taken a stab from
under center. This group, which included bout Leaflora, is a
key part of it Sean McVay Raheem Morris, now the
head coach of the Falcons, Kyle Shadahad was the outfensive coordinator,
and Mike McDaniel. They transported that entire Shanahan outside zone
(21:02):
offense and ran it out of the pistol, which is
more complicated than it sounds. And the league got no answers.
And you'll remember, it wasn't Russell Wilson, it wasn't Andrew
luck who won Rookie of the Year that year. It
was RG three. They got to they won the division,
hosted a playoff game, he heard his KD and then
the dysfunction engulfed everyone that next season. But in NFL circles,
(21:23):
people were like, whoa, what did they just do?
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And you have quarterback Kirk Cousins there too, right, which
kind of amplified the dysfunction that was going on.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
No, he was also a rookie. Kyle Shanahan insisted that
they draft him in the fourth round the same year
as RG three, So yeah, there was. And when RG
three missed the game late that season and Kirk Cousins,
in a more traditional Shad had attack lit it up
against Cleveland, it caused a lot of drama. One thing
I want to assure people with this book. I know
it sounds heavy football scheme and evolution. There's a lot
(21:58):
of pettiness and dirted here from the Kyle Shanah had
back Laflora falling out over the twenty twenty one trap
let up when there were reports the forty nine ers
were tried to trade for Aaron Rodgers and to the
chapter Kyle Shandaha and Sean McVay that's entitled enemy Friends,
which is a quote from Brahae Boris, and I'm pretty
(22:20):
sure he ordered it that way.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
For a reason.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
You know, it's really you. You're exactly right, Mike. One
of the things I wanted to applaud you on this
book is that it's not weighed down by x's and
o's that you have to figure out is for a layman,
if you just want to get an idea of how
these things come about, how these coaches came about. This
(22:43):
is a great read because there was so much I
can only imagine. And I said this to Matt Lafleura.
Over the last couple of weeks where they had Jordan
love Is out, they've got a quarterback, They've had for
like fifteen minutes in camp. He doesn't know anything, and
they construct gains over two weeks where they win two
games with Malik Willis, and it just I said to
(23:06):
man Lafoy, I said, I don't know how you slept
the last two weeks. Says the creative juice is and
energy and the creative tension must have been just phenomenal
in those meetings, and he had to be. But let's
go back to the start. Let's go back to Washington
here in two thousand and eight or thereabouts, and you've
got Lafloor, and you've got McVeigh, and you've got Shanahan,
(23:26):
and Shanahan's kind of running these guys. These guys are
little pups and he's beating them with a stick. And
I got the feeling it was not easy to work
for Kyle Shanahan. And in fact, you probably came away
saying I hate that guy.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Well it was love hate, But for BT Lafour after
the twenty sixteenth season in Aladda, when the Falcons came
so close toward that Super Bowl, Kyle Shadah had got
the forty nine or job, Sean McVay got the LA job,
Mat Lafloor thought about stay in Aladda, but ultimately wet
with Sean McVay and became the ram off it'sive coordinator.
(24:04):
And he told me it was time I was done
with Kyle. As much as he meant to me, and
as you know, as the good times we had, we
couldn't be around each other anymore. Now, what's funny is
that Sean and Matt who are closer. I Matt managed
to drive Sean crazy in la As another coach says
(24:24):
of the book, they must be really good friends because
the way they yelled at each other was like bide boggling.
And you know, Matt has, you know, an instigator's side
of him, where Sean would you know, point something out,
maybe in a the tension of a game situation and say,
all right, I don't want to hear about how they're
(24:46):
blitzing off the backside. I got to cover. And then
there'd be a pause that Matt would go, hey, Sean,
watch that backside blitz and Selwin lose his mind. So
that's that's that's quote is I'm a glutton for punishment.
He definitely seems to be willing to hitch the gate
and Matt. You know, that's a very sincere, earnest guy,
(25:06):
and that crew kind of wondered how he'd be once
he got into the head coaching role. There's a story
of the book. Back in Washington, they're on a team flight.
Chris Cooley, the character who was their star tight end,
decides he's gonna live it up the flight and do
a prank. So he passes out pens and paper to
(25:27):
every player and announces that he's doing a poll ranking
the assistant coaches in terms of who they like more.
And of course it's a fake poll, but he goes
through the entire exercise and then Cooley announces the results
and Matt Lafleur, according to his results, is the second
least popular assistant coach, and they see that Matt's eyes
(25:50):
welled up with tears. He was so upset that he
was that disliked, even though it was a rigged election. So,
uh yeah, you know, that's come a long way, and
he really runs, you know, probably the closest to the
pure Kyle Shanahan offense of all of them. But wow,
what a job he has done, including Wow, you you
(26:11):
mentioned it in twenty twenty four with Malik Willis. I
mean if you took a blind poll book in August
of all NFL coaches and talent evaluators and said, all right,
there's a quarterback right now on a roster. He's gonna
go to a new team with you know, just cold
and win two games as the starter at September. I
(26:32):
don't think Malik Willis would have gotten any votes. And
you know, obviously what Matt has done with Jordan Love.
You know, you know, with Aaron Rodgers, they made magic together,
but it's one of the all time breaks. Jordan Love
has a chance to be really, really good. But you
know that that got a lot of people's attention.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
I was curious as much Michael as the NFL or
football in gymal I work in the college world, and
usually everything is it's four knocks just trying to get
to get access. Was what was that like for you
to be able to get I mean, you develop relationships,
they trust your fairness. Well, what was that process like
just getting the access you were able to get to
this book?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Well, you know, I do go way back with most
or all of them, which really helps, and including Mike Shanahan.
So I really enjoyed great access here which helped. It
also helped that I was kind of on this, you know,
years before I actually wrote a proposal. I just saw
what was happening. And I've watched Kyle very closely for
(27:32):
a long time. I've noticed since he was a kid.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Because of his.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Father, got to know Matt and Mike McDaniel and Sean
mczay and Raheem I had known for a while, and
I was just like, Wow, these guys are different, and
you know, I really felt like we saw a sea
change happening in the sport where the meatheads are big
overtaken by the scientists. To oversimplify a little, but basically,
(27:55):
I was hanged with these guys anyway. They're fun. Even
after he stopped drinking. Mike McDaniel's like the life of
the party when you're out with him. It turned out
he didn't even need the booze. But yeah, you know,
because of those relationships, I was able to get great access.
The only guy who really pushed back was Kyle, who
I've known for so long, and you know, I still
(28:18):
cover him and got good access in the course of
doing my day job, but specifically for this project. He
didn't love the idea of a book coming out on
him or partly on him while he's still coaching. So
we kind of navigated our way through that. But I
know that you'll read it and see that there's quite
(28:38):
a bit of you know, Kyle access and it worked
out great.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Is it fair to say like people describe him? And again,
I'm a college my time is in college, but Kyle
Shanahan is an acquired taste. He can he can kind
of give you the Heisman polls just so you stay
back there and I'll do my thing. Is that fair? Well?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I would say this, You know, he be really charming
what he wants to be, but it's not as important
to him as it is to say Sean McVay as
that you know, win the room, look in the eye,
leadership flair. Kyle is much more intent dot I'm just
gonna scheme it and beat you that way. But he's
(29:19):
gotten a lot better. But I would say this, you know,
he knew he was good, or at least believed he
was from a very early age and didn't go to
Great Lakes to hide it. And so he was definitely
viewed to the coaches community early on, especially as you know,
a guy who could have been more diplomatic. You know,
(29:39):
you heard the nepotism, you heard the title bit. And
he had some high profile conflicts with players that we
talk about in this book that didn't help Donovan McNabb,
RG three, Johnny Manziel, Roddy White. So he developed a
partly earned reputation for someone who wasn't great on the
people side. He's definitely gotten better at its nu ods.
(30:01):
But yeah, you know he and I have butted heads,
just like he and everyone else of this book. And
yet you know that's you know what it's like at
this job. We did, we just but had Sometimes it happens.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Michael Silver, the author of the Why Is Everything? A
story of football rivalry and revolution. It is what the
NFL is becoming today, folks. It is the Shanahan impact
on pro football today, very similar to what Bill Walsh
did in the eighties. And you know, when I let
(30:38):
me ask you this, okay, it is my impression. Did
all of these guys, and I work on a regular
basis with Lafleur, did all of these guys came through
a pretty difficult bold fire branding to get where they
are today at the hand of the taskmaster Kyle Shanahan
(30:58):
is that what you're a prision is.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Well partly that, but just their backstories are wild if
you look at you know, Matt Lafleur coming from an
unassuming college pedigree and getting his big break to come
down to Houston and be part of that staff. And
I love that story. Where Mad is driving, he gets
a call from Robert Sala, his friend now the coach
(31:23):
of the Jets, who was already on that staff. Hey,
I could get you in. He's gonna have to take
a pay cut. He tells his now wife Brie, I
gotta go. I'm just packing my duffel bag and get
to the car and he's thicking maybe I'll drive all night,
but starting to get tired. He doesn't have a lot
of money, and he decides, you know what, maybe I'll
(31:44):
just crash by the side of the road. And he
sees that he is in Hope, Arkansas, so he says, well,
that's where Bill Clinton is from, a town called Oat.
How it must be a nice place, right it produced
a president. So he decides to go to a Walmart
parking lot get a few hours of sleep. He wakes
up at about five point thirty of the morning and
let's just say that you needed hope to hope that
(32:07):
you weren't going to get carjacked in the neighborhood he
was in because it was not that night, he said.
He's thinking what did I do? So he gets out,
He gets to Houston, crashes at Robert Sola's house, shows
up for work the next day and Kyle snehad has
just been promoted to offensive coordinator after being a position coach,
and it's the first meeting. Matt shows up his first
(32:28):
day of work, and Matt's thinking, this guy's the same
age as me. I've I've been running an offense in college.
How much more could he know? At the first meeting,
Kyle's late, he somehow overslept and it's the first his
first day is offensive coordinator, youngest offensive coordinator in the league.
And now Matt's going, this guy, Oh my slacker ne
(32:50):
bo baby, I'm gonna dominate him. And then he said
about thirty minutes of talking football with Kyle, and Matt's like,
oh God, this guy knows way more than me. I've
been trouble. I gotta I gotta step up my game.
But yeah, they all they all came through some kind
of unusual circumstances. Kyle was the most clear path because
of his father. But then in Washington, they all saw
(33:15):
Mike Shanahan, this great coach who should be in the
Hall of Fame and probably will be soon. They saw
him not only get fired and you know, lose, lose
you know, his luster in Washington, but that ended his
coaching career. He never got another job. And Sean McVay
told me, those scars, what we saw Mike Shanahan go through,
(33:36):
who was like our idol. We think about that all
the time. And Sean said, you know, I need to
check myself not to take things for granted, because I
got to LA and we started winning, and you gotta remember, like,
it's not always like this in the NFL at all,
and you've really got to cherish it when you're in
a good situation.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
It always seems like one of the mysteries of the
NFL guys, because people you don't have to be a
diehard NFL fan to know how dysfunctional the Washington franchise was.
Guys get fired all the time, right, Why why do
you think Michael or you two Wade, why didn't he
get another job?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
You know, I think hardly was the stench of that situation,
and partly he was a little bit older, but I'm
still surprised he talked to the Raiders of all people
one off season. Now al Davis for younger people, what
he did to Late Kiffin, That's basically what happened to
Mike Shanah had in his second year as a young,
(34:37):
hotshot coach. Then Al Davis tried to stiff them out
of the money. It was a there's a story of
the book that I remember reporting for Sports Illustrated back
in the day because Mike Shanahan had told it to me.
But he and Al Davis, it was, had this horrible dispute,
including over the buddy and the forty nine ers are
playing the Raiders and Mike Shanna has the offensive coordinator now,
(34:59):
so he says to Elvis Gerbach, who at that time
is Steve Young's backup quarterback, Hey, you see that guy
over across the field pregame. See that guy over across
the field in the white sweatsuit, which of course was
always Al Davis's attire, and pretty far away and he said,
Elvis says yeah, and Mike said, I want you to
take this football and I want you to throw it
(35:19):
as hard as you can, right at him, and Elvis
kind of laugh and Mike goes, you know, looks him
right in the eye. He says, I'm bleeping serious, throw
this football in his head or else, like I'm your boss.
So elviskirback goes back, throws a tight spiral and it's
coming right in al Davis's head. At the last second,
Elsie's a coming, goes like this, ducks out of the way,
(35:42):
falls to the grass, the ball passes up. He comes
up staring at Mike Shanahan and Mike Shanahan who's waving
at him, and that gives him an upseved gesture to underscoreing.
So very competitive guy. Mike didn't quite have the arm
to get it there, but he had a guy he
could manipulate to get it there.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Watch it, Yeah, exactly. You know, it's interesting. And man,
you bring up a good point why some of the
why was it Bill Belichick hired this year? You know,
I mean, why didn't Shanahan get a job after that
Washington situation? And Mike, the only thing I can say
is that you know that ownership in the NFL is
(36:23):
a very small and tight fraternity, and if somebody accumulates
a certain amount of dirt on them, then they you know,
they can actually get banished it.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
You know, although although if the person accumulated the dirt
is Dan Snyder there may be a caveat. But the
Belichick finks interesting because I saw that as part of
this sea change because Ray Morris. So, Ray Morris was
the young coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers after John
Bruden's surprise firing and they rebuilt. They had a young,
(36:57):
cheap roster, and he actually got him to tenor six
a year two and then got fired after year three.
He admittedly was not nearly as mature back then, and
it took a long long time for Rae Morris to
get another chance. And at what point Kyle Shannon had
switched him over to offense and made him his receivers
coach in Atlanta, which we get into in the books.
(37:19):
So he's unbelievably well routed. I've got a story. I
think Matt's gonna like this one because you know, you
mentioned Dan Snyder. Steve Spurrier was there. You know, we saw, Okay,
here's a great one for you. So after the twenty
twenty season. Rahee Morris had been the interim coach of
the Falcons after Dad Quinn was fired. He interviews for
(37:40):
the big job and he doesn't get it, and it
looks like Urban Buyer, who's coming to take the Jags job,
is gonna make Raheem Morris's defensive coordinator at Jacksonville. Raheem's like, okay,
but I wonder what else is out there. So Urban
calls himout a Friday and says, this is great, We're
gonna do this. Why don't you come down when we'll
(38:00):
do the interview and we'll lock it up. And Raheem's
pupping his fist because he's like, sweet, he just bought
me five days. And Urban Buyer is so clueless about
how competitive the NFL highering cycle is and how fast
you have to move that he just goes, yeah, come
out in five days. Well, at the end of that
five day period, Brandon Staley surprisingly gets the charger's job,
(38:23):
leaving Sean McVay without a defensive coordinator. Sean calls Raheem,
who's having steak a steak dinner with his wife, and
he's like, don't get on the plane to Jacksonville co
work for me and because of that, Raheem Morris goes
to LA and helps Sean McVay win a Super Bowl
and ultimately goes back as the Falcons head coach and
stays out of the blender. That was Urban Meyer's disastrous
(38:47):
stitch to Jacksonville where he's kicking the kicker and you
guys know all about it. Yeah, but I just love
that Urban Byer was so clueless about how the NFL
works that he lost out on a great defensive coordinator.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Yeah, college Hall of Fame level coach. College and but yeah,
Darryl Bebble we knew up here obviously from his time
as Wisconsin's quarterback, was the offensive coordinator. I'm sure there's
a book there that Daryl could write it, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
And by the way, you see my Cal held Justin Wilcox,
I know you had him. So yes, we're really really excited.
He's been there a long time. It's not the easiest
place to turn around, but Cal's actually hosting college game
day for the first time ever on Saturday. Well, let's
coming to Berkeley and Miami's coming to town. Uh so
(39:38):
there's a lot of excitement at Berkeley and yeah, Justin's
just as a great dude. And I know he loved
his time. I mean, who doesn't, but he loved his
tibe in Madison.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
He was here one year if Paul Chris was the
head coach, and Jad raved about him. And now and
like we all predicted, Cal would be a member of
the ACC, which now stands for the All Coast Conference.
Not that dealtica that is.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
That is true, but we didn't start the fire. And
I would just like to ask you truth as a
cow person. I know it didn't work out this last weekend,
but if you could put a beating on UCLA, Oregon,
Washington at USC as much as possible, it would warm
my heart. Uh. UCLA's big ten opener that brought joy
(40:23):
to me. It's a September warm day at the Rose Bowl,
and Indiana came in and beat him by about seventy
nine points. I gotta tell you that was Indiana teaming
up with Carba. It was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
I did. I was able to check the box. Wisconsin
just played out at the Coliseum this week against USC.
First half went great, second half not so much. But
I'm still I'm like you guys, I'm I mean, it
was fun selfishly to call a game in the LA Coliseum. Man,
I missed the Pack twelve, you know, Pack eight, Pac
ten packed. Yelp, that's just not it's just a different world.
(41:01):
But not I hear you. I understand.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
And we've had no Rose Bull in my lifetime. That's
our Holy Braille. We kind of got robbed from us
by the BCS when Aaron Rodgers was there, and now
our Rose Bull dream is even less probably, I mean
there's still technically a way, but like you'd have to
win the ACC, win your first round game, and then
hope you were in the quarter final. That is the
(41:25):
Rose Bowl.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
But we're gonna keep up alive here, that's right. How
often do you keep in touch with that former Cal quarterback?
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Uh, you know a decent amount. I went out there
in trading camp and they were having joint workouts against
the Giants, and he looked unbelievable. You know, I'm not surprising,
but I was like, WHOA, he's back, and then had
a great talk with him. Wrote about it. They opened
against the forty dine ers. I covered that game sabb afterwards,
(41:54):
wrote about it, but I was like, I've seen enough
in that game, and I was getting kind of pummeled
as tends to happen to me social media, and people
are like, oh he lost he And then week three
everyone saw it and they were like, oh yeah, so
you know, look, it just was one year too long.
It was such a great run of Green Bay, and
(42:14):
there was an accumulation of stuff, as you know, we
get into all of it in the book and including
some pretty revealing stuff from that's perspective about that last year.
But cleterarally, it was one year too long. That's unfortunate.
But I think Aaron's in a better place now, has
a chance to finish, you know, on his terms. And
if I had known that that was gonna do this,
(42:35):
not only would Jordan Love but Malik Willis, I would
have said, it's good for everyone because the world is
now seeing just how good a coach mat is. And
you know, I love coming to Green Bay. I love
driving down you know, Mike McCarthy Street and every you know,
but like Holme Grewn Way, but like, man, if there
(42:56):
could ever be a little floor lane or something that
would be pretty.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yeah, they don't have to win a Super Bowl.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
Yes they will.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
They will have to win a Super but in any
other NFL city, you would win a Super Bowl and
not have a straight name after you. You know, I
will say this, However, if col does go to the
Rose bullsabow, there will be a justin Wilcott's Boulevard, I
promise you, because in the great tradition of Berkeley and protesting,
(43:24):
I will stage the one man sitting in the Berkeley
City Council until it happens.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
I won't leave, no man. Berkeley and Madison, those are
protest capitals without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yes, yeah, and listen, you guys win on the beer,
of course, but we try to hold up our head
like it's not because we don't drink a lot of it.
We just don't. You know, we don't have spotted cow
and some of that. But like we we wore hard,
play hard, trust me speaking of that.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
You know, we don't have the time to do this.
But at some point way we've got to get Michael back,
because if the book came out it was the late nineties. Wayne,
your years covering the bulls. You do a book with
Dennis Rodman and you have stories to last three lifetimes.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Oh man, I just yes, and you know you know
it's bad when the last dance is on during the
pandemic and the Rodman episode where he goes to Vegas.
It disappears, and I'm getting texted from tons of people.
Some people had heard from it a while and they're like, dude,
were you on that trip? And literally I'm like, I
(44:28):
don't think I was on that one. I'm not one
hundred percent sure because there were a few of them,
but yeah, I did. I did books back to back
on Dennis Rodman and Kirk Order, who doesn't get any
different than that that, And then I took a nineteen
year break. I'm back with The Why Is Everything, which
is out Tuesday, October first, everywhere there also obviously Amazon
(44:52):
and anywhere you get it online. It's a bookstores, the
links are all over by social media bio. I think
everyone's gonna like it, and I I really think packer
fads especially are gonna get some insight into Battlefloor and
some of the things that have gone on, especially since
twenty nineteen. And thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
It's been it's been a one last question if I
can't Michael Michael Ardle's or the author of The Why
Is Everything? Of these coaches we're talking about, Raheem Morris,
Mike McDaniel, Sean McVay, Matt Lafleur, who is most like Shanahan?
Would you say.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
That's funny? I well beg McDaniel isn't like anyone, not
just a coaching like I think on Earth, like he's
he's the most unique person. Raheem is very different than
all of them in that Raheem could be hard and
you know, competitive, but he's his sets of humor at
his charm are so extensive that he could say brutal
(45:55):
things to you at it's five. Like he's so well liked.
I think Sean and Kyle are so different and yet
they're becoming more alike. So maybe him And then yeah, Matt,
I think patterned himself after Kyle the most, but has
definitely done it a different way. And I'll leave you
with this. I actually defended Kyle Shanahan after this last
(46:17):
Super Bowl. I liked his decisions of the way he
approached it. But that Packer game I wrote and believed
that Matt Lafloor out coached him in the playoffs. I
thought the boldness and the way that Matt you know
had the Packers you know, ready to go was a
site to behold. I remember walking through the tunnel with
Matt as he was very upset, but walking to the bus,
(46:39):
and I just expressed that to him that I really
thought he you know, brought it, and he said yeah,
and I'll never not coach that way again, so that
I kind of got chills. I was like, A right,
because there's gonna be a lot more where that came from.
So yeah, I'm really, you know, really lucky to have
spent so much time with all of them. But then again,
(47:01):
they were lucky to spend it with me. I think
everyone's gonna like the boo yeah, gury he'll ardly.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
Well, I'm ordered. I can't wait to get it. It's
gonna be a lot of fun to read.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Oh it's all right, one book, it really is. Well listen,
we'll we'll chop it up again soon and the bee time.
Enjoy the Badgers and everything about that beautiful campus.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
There we go, we'll do we'll do here.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Thanks so much, and thank we'll be John Wayne, all right, guys,
I appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Take care.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Thanks thanks man, really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Well, that does it for us this time. Special thanks
to author Michael Silver, whose new book Though Why Is
Everything is an absolute must read for any football fan.
Our producer engineer is Dave McCann. Our executive producer Jeff Tyler.
For Matt, this is Wayne. Thank you very much for
listening to the lera of the in La Pay podcast.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
The Leravan the Pay podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
Podcasts with hosts Wayne Lravy and Matt Lay, with production
engineering by Dave McCann. The Leravie la Pe podcast is
presented by UW Credit Union. Here for every you listen
to other episodes available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
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