Tom Hamilton, Baseball Hall of Fame inductee, joins Wayne & Matt

Wayne and Matt talk with Baseball Hall of Fame Inductee and voice of the Cleveland Guardians Tom Hamilton.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Herb was like, hey, young man, we are horse manure.
Those weren't quite his words, but and we are going
to be horse manure. And that's not going to impact
how we do a ballgame. And it was the greatest
device I ever got. That day's game is one owed
your utmost professionalism effort. And don't ever forget that might

(00:22):
be the highlight of somebody's day. It could be a
shut in. Whatever I carried for the longest time until
the binder was stolen from me a card in Braille
from a blind person who explained what the broadcasts meant.
And boy, when you were getting it at six o'clock
in the morning and had a game that night and
you were feeling sorry for yourself, you'd look at that

(00:46):
card and realize how lucky am I.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is the Lavie in the Pay podcast, a production
of iHeartRadio Podcasts with host Swayin Larvi, the voice of
the Green Bay Packers, and Matt Lapey, the voice of
Wisconsin Badgers football and men's basketball. The Laraviella Pey podcast
is presented by UW Credit Union. Here for every U.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Hi, everybody, I'm Wayne Laravie and I'm Matt Lapey. On
this episode of the Lara Ofviella Pey podcast, we visit
with the voice of the Cleveland Guardians and the recipient
of the Ford C. Frick Award, Wisconsin native Tom Hamilton,
as our guest. The super Bowl is upon us in
college basketball in Wisconsin. Well, let me tell you something.
It may be cold here, but the basketball people have

(01:36):
kind of warmed it up. Stay tuned. We've got good
stuff coming up on the Lerra Viella Pay podcast. Ready
to give fees a stiff arm. Uw Credit Union can
help because since nineteen thirty one they've been committed to
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Insured by NCUA. Terms and conditions apply. We welcome in

(02:01):
Tom Hamilton, the Hall of Fame voice of the Cleveland
Guardians for the past thirty five years, and a Waterloo
was conson native who grew up listening to and I'm
sure when he does a game he's thinking a little
bit of what he heard from Earl Gillespie of the
Milwaukee Braves from the sixties. Hammy, you're by age and

(02:22):
we're of a certain vintage. Were things in the sixties
we remember like it were yesterday.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yes, and when as I told you and Matt for CBS, NBC, Fox,
there has been a team that has won three consecutive championships.
Kansas City hopes to equal that. So yeah, we were
lucky to be growing up in that era. I wish

(02:48):
I could say I grew up thirty years after that,
but that's not reality. But our Sundays, you know, when
mom and dad were running a dairy farm, were based
on us going to mass on Sunday morning after they'd
milked the cows and then hustle back to the farm
and watch Vince Lombardi and the Green Bay Packers win
almost every Sunday. You grew up going. I don't think

(03:11):
they can ever lose. So you know, I I've now
actually lived in Ohio longer than I've lived in Wisconsin,
but you don't forget where you came from, and that
is still home and still have family there, and you know,
still a big fan of you and the Packers and
of course Matt and the Badgers. So yeah, I've been

(03:32):
very fortunate. And like I tell my two boys, we
have four kids, and Nick and Bradley are huge Packer fans.
I go guys, you have watched three quarterbacks Brett Favre,
Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love. You did not watch Jim Delgazio.
You did not watch Jim Zorn. You did not watch

(03:54):
a fifty five year old John Hadel. So you have
been spoiled.

Speaker 4 (04:01):
And do they believe you or they say, well, I
don't know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
That they just just always snake their head and go
the other way.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
Yeah, may mean there's so much ground we could cover.
I don't know if well, I know you remember when
you were hired by Cleveland. We just so happened to
be there. The Wisconsin basketball team is playing Ohio State
January of nineteen ninety. I don't even know if it
was announced publicly yet, but you had been hired to

(04:29):
work alongside herbs score. There's the old line, the years
or the days are long, the years go fast. I mean,
we'll get to the Hall of Fame call here, obviously,
But do you think about that moment and thinking, wow,
that was thirty five years ago.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Well, I think about that a lot. When you get
to my age, Matt, you know someday.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
You'll be there, but I'm not just far behind.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, it sure seems like the days go quicker. But yeah,
you know, and I've said this countless times. We have
been really blessed with four children and grandchildren and you know,
but but all the family and the personal stuff aside.
You know, the greatest phone call in my life was
that January getting a call in the morning from the

(05:16):
then owner of three We, Tom Wilson. Because in those days,
you didn't work for the club. The club had to
approve you. And Hank Peters, the general manager, approved my hiring,
but he was the one that called Tom Wilson to
offer me the job. So you know, it's taken us
on an incredible journey. It's given us a life that

(05:36):
you know, we never envisioned. You know, I've been, like
I said, I know how blessed and fortunate I've been.
It also opened up a door to being able to
do Big Ten TV, as Wayne and I were doing
games during a twenty five year period, never together. Yeah,
you know, but you know, so I I you know,

(05:58):
I can remember being in Wisconsin watching the Big Ten
Game of the Week with Merle Harmon and Fred Taylor
thinking can you imagine doing that someday? And again I
was lucky enough for that to happen. But that's all
a byproduct of one phone call. So to your point, Matt,
nothing will ever top that phone call, because that, to me,
if you weren't good enough to play, the next best

(06:20):
thing was to be able to do Major League Baseball
or whatever play by play gig you had and were doing,
and that felt like the impossible dream becoming a reality.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
You know, it's interesting, Hammy. It's especially you go back
in where your one phone call, one move kind of
defines a path that you're going to go down. The
late Jim Donovan, the voice of the Cleveland Rounds for
many years, has passed away recently. He and I were
contemporaries in Boston. He was at BU I was at

(06:53):
Emerson College. We used to go to the Boston Garden,
not together. I would go on Knight's the Celtics played,
and fit upstairs and do play by play into my
tape recorder. He would do it the next night when
the Ruins were in town. He always wanted to be
a hockey broadcaster. I always wanted to be a basketball broadcaster.
We both ended up in football. It's you know, those

(07:15):
kinds of crazy things happen and It's like, no, I
was always going to be an NBA guy on you
know radio guys, especially doing all and that kind of thing.
Was baseball always your target when you're growing up.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
No, you know, I mean, you know, I loved baseball,
but you know, you were like any kid in a
small town, you played all the sports. Unfortunately for me,
I played it at a mediocre level. So I knew
early that that was not going to be my ticket
out of Waterloop.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
And so but.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
I just and you and I'm sure both of you
have done the same with the young kids that are
trying to get into the business. I wanted to do
play by play. I loved every moment of doing everything
I've done, whether it was basketball, football, or baseball. I
love them all. And you know, I was so lucky

(08:05):
to work in Ampleton for five six years where back
in those days, and again, I know it's probably still
very much that way, but nothing's like it was in
the seventies and early eighties where you know, plays like
the Fox Valley. You know, if you wanted to rob
somebody's home, you would do it on Friday night because
everybody was, you know, at the Fieldhouse in Nina watching

(08:27):
Ron Inerson, you know, and Nina played basketball and we
were doing those games, or you know, I can go
through the list of all those great coaches back then,
Ron Ininerson and Dickey Manual and Ron Parker, and you
go on and on, Jack Whippick and Clem Massey, all
those great coaches. I had as much fun doing high
school basketball and football up in the valley in Watertown

(08:50):
as I did anything. And so for me, Wayne, the
baseball end of it really came when I got to Columbus,
where while I I loved doing baseball, I had not
been one of those guys that went to the minor
leagues and only did minor league baseball that was my
only avenue. I was trying to keep kind of a

(09:11):
broad look at it, and for me, I thought, you know, hey,
maybe a college football basketball gig is a little more
realistic because there are more of them. And you know,
then you find out I got interviewed once. Man I
was in Appleton and they call me and I applied
and they were looking for a new voice in the

(09:31):
Nebraska Cornhuskers. So you know, it tells you how much
they wanted me to come. They said, yeah, drive on
down for the interview and you're like, oh, I thought
maybe he.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Had flying me in but new.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
And they put me up in a hotel And the
next morning I went to meet with the radio station
and Nebraska folks and they were like, you can't believe
yesterday we hired Ray Scott to do our football games.
Can you believe we got Ray Scott? I'm like, why
am I you know?

Speaker 3 (10:02):
And uhh, so you know.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
But for me, it was like whatever would have really
opened the door? I loved doing play by play, And
I think that's the key that you know, we probably
eventually get pigeonholed if we're lucky enough to be the
voice of the Packers, be the voice of the Badgers,
be the voice of a baseball team. But I think
in the beginning, you just want to do do play

(10:26):
by play.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
Did the station at least cover your mileage in Lincoln,
Nebrasta or were you all on your own?

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Really?

Speaker 1 (10:32):
No? No, you know, it was like that's a long drive,
it's a lot. And the whole interview was he must
have if you said it once, guys, he said it
four times. He goes, then you believe we got Ray Scott.
So Tommy Bill, what was he talking to you about
basketball or something. Well, at the time it was supposed

(10:55):
to be both. But somehow that tells you that it's
a long car right from Appleton to Lincoln. He had
plenty of time to hire Race Scott before I got there.
They said, yeah, we want you to now do basketball,
be a salesman. I was like, I might as just
get back in the car because I have to live
on sales. You know, I'm I'm going to be eighty

(11:16):
five pounds. I can't sell anything.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
Tom, take us your time in Cleveland. And I've always
had a bias about Cleveland sports for a simple reason.
My wife is from Euclid, the suburb Cleveland, so.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
That same.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely, and they're very proud of that as
well they should be. But you know, through I mean
for the longest time, particularly when they played in the
old Old Stadium and very few fans were there, and
just to see the rise of that organization from you know,
a ball club that was going to lose one hundred
games a lot, you know, many years too. Now, you know,

(11:56):
being a contender year in and year out, being in
multiple worlds, what has that been like for you and
for the city getting behind this ball club the way
it hats well.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
I really think Matt. The ball clubs of the mid
nineties changed the perception nationally of Cleveland for a couple
of reasons. One, I mean, they had been literally a joke.
They hadn't been in the playoffs since nineteen fifty four
and most years by the fourth of July, you know,
people were arguing to the Browns call heads or tails

(12:28):
for the opening kickoff in September, and so we were
just kind of an afterthought. And you played in the
worst facility, in my mind, in all of sports, and
so you know, I'm glad I was a part of that.
In nineteen ninety ninety one was the worst season in
franchise history, with one hundred and six losses. And I
think because I worked with an icon like Herb who

(12:51):
accepted me, that allowed the audience to accept me. Because
if Herb had rejected me, then you know, there was
a reason we bought a home when we bought it
in Bay Village, saying, what is one of the places
where a home will sell fastest if we get fired?
And that was our whole mindset moving to Cleveland, because

(13:12):
you didn't know, and because I went through at least
five years of bad baseball with herb. I think the
audience helped accept you, and then it was the perfect storm.
A lot of ball clubs have sold a city on
you build it and will be great. And for Cleveland,
it all started with Hank Peters trading Joe Carter in

(13:33):
the late eighties, getting Sandy Alomar, getting Carlos by Erga,
and then believing that a five year plan has to
be a five year plan. You don't panic in year
three and start over again, because then you never get
out of that. And so that club then was ready
to contend when the ballpark opened to ninety four, and
it became one of the most entertaining teams in the

(13:55):
history of the game. I mean, you know, you think
of our lineup there when in ninety four we go
to the playoffs if there isn't a strike. But in
ninety five they won one hundred games and lost forty four.
We were eighteen games less that year than a normal season.
That's an incredible pace. Twenty seven of those were last
at bat wins. So because of how they were winning,

(14:18):
it captured the city. Now you're on national TV a lot.
Now you are you know, the focus of a arguably
the next best ballpark after Camden Yards. Camden Yards had
opened in ninety two. We were the second retro park
to open in ninety four. That helped change, I thought,
the perception of downtown Cleveland and the city of Cleveland.

(14:42):
And then you know, you had Kenny Loften leading off,
Omar Vaskel, then Carlos Bierga, then Albert Bell, then Eddie Murray,
then Jim Tomey, then Manny Ramirez, Paul Sorento hit eighth
with twenty five homers, and Sandy Alomar hit ninth. And
so that literally was all to Hall of Fame lineup,
up and down. And I also think people then got

(15:04):
spoiled man, because, as I have said to folks, yeah
we haven't won at all.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
But if your life is revolving around you know, I've
heard people say we just win it once. Good Lord
can take me, and I'm like, really, huck, what a
trip that till he comes KNACKI we have been in
the playoffs fourteen times than the last thirty years, and

(15:30):
that's with the challenges that come with baseline. I don't
know why, why, no, why, we all know why we're
not going to go down the road of national TV
and distribution equally, but for us to be able to
do what we're doing with on an NFL guideline where
everybody basically is on a level playing field, I think

(15:50):
it's pretty remarkable what our front office has done. You know,
last year we lose in the ALCS and it turned
out to be a better series then probably it looks
at on paper. The three games in Cleveland against New
York are three of the most memorable games I've been
a part of. Cleveland lost two of them, but they
lost them. Every game was a last at bat, heroic,

(16:13):
and Yankees had a three to one advantage in payroll,
and yet we were toe to toe with them. I
wish baseball would get to where the NBA and the
NFL is, but I don't know that that'll ever happen
as far as a level playing field.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
Financially on Wisconsin off fees, get feed, pre checking options
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Speaker 3 (16:42):
Tom Hamilton, the Hall of Fame voice of the Cleveland Guardians,
is our guest. He will be inducted into the Hall
of Fame the Ford. He will win the four to
See Frick Award coming up at the Hall of Fame
this July. Is it Tommy there last.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Weekend in July?

Speaker 3 (16:57):
Wayne, Wow? Yeah, he's our guest here on the larr
Vie Lape podcast. Matt, go ahead, you had something?

Speaker 4 (17:05):
No, I'll just say, Ham, you raise such a good
point because I equate what's happening in baseball to the
college game right now, and I've made the comparison with
the Badgers to the Brewers. You do what you can
with what you have, and the same thing would match
up with the Guardians. And I always I try to
believe this, and I try to tell folks. I can't
tell anyone how to be a fan. But if the

(17:27):
worst thing you can say is we got a shot,
then then you're in a pretty good place. Yes, you know,
I always think you have Milwaukee Bucks fans. Give me
one title, give me one. Well, they got the title
and then the coach got coach got launched like a
year and a half later. But if every year you think, yeah, maybe,
I think even the Brewers this year they haven't you know,
there hasn't been a splash acquisition, but they've won the

(17:50):
division the last couple of years. They going, okay, let's
get the spring training, and there's an eagerness to it.
But I can also see where fans get a little
bit spoiled. We've seen some of that, I think with
the Badger sports. But if the worst thing is you
got a chance, and I think with the Guardians, you
can say that the worst thing, yeah, we got a shot.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
We can do this. Well.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
My great aunt promised me back in the sixties. Of course,
Wisconsin went to the Rose Bowl in nineteen sixty three,
one of the greatest games in Rose Bowl history against
Southern cal with Pat Richter and Ron vander Kellen and
the incredible comeback. That's what we grew up with because
from that point on it seemed like, well, they could
win three games this year. And my great aunt said, Tom,

(18:33):
I promise you the next time the Badgers go to
the Rose Bowl, I'm taking you. Well, that was like
me asking Santa for a pony. I was never getting
a pony at Christmas, and I was never going to Pasadena.
And then Wisconsin's going, you know, not yearly, but it
seemed like they were a threat every year because of
you know, Barry Alvarez and you know Wayne lived through

(18:55):
it with the Chicago Bulls. That's that that's a dynasty
we'll never see again. I don't think in our lifetime.
And you know, for what you have been able to witness,
we would have died growing up if the Bangers would
have been going to final fours, or as we say
to people in spring training, you begin the year with
legitimate hope. Green Bay has been that way since the

(19:20):
mid nineties. Wisconsin's been that way since the nineties. And yep,
I think a lot of times folks get spoiled, and
I know I see it in Cleveland. They're like, well,
if they don't win it, what was the point? I
was like, the point was you had six months of
relevant baseball day in and day out. The point is
you're not the Chicago White Sox, who are now telling

(19:42):
you that buy your tickets for twenty thirty I think
will be good. You know you're not dealing with that.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
You know, Hammy, I thought you I've read something about
you and you said something about maybe you said it
earlier today too. Is it before the Guardians got good,
you had experienced a lot of down seasons and so
all of a sudden, now they're going to a couple
of World Series and that type of thing, and you

(20:12):
had a real appreciation of it. And it kind of
brought me back to when I got to Chicago in
nineteen eighty five and the eighty five Bears happened, and
it was my first year there, and I had before
I knew what was going on, they had won the
Super Bowl, and I didn't have an appreciation for that.
So a couple of decades later, the Packers go in

(20:33):
twenty ten, and I had been around for a decade,
and you know, there I had such so much better
at appreciation of that in calling that run than I
did at Chicago, where I barely remember it because you know,
I was new on the scene. I didn't understand the
depth of what was really going on there.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
I feel that way way in with you know, we
went ninety five and ninety seven. Ninety five, I think
we were just kind of happy to be there. First off,
ninety five was like everyone's season of dreams becoming a
rally in Cleveland, and you lost to a really good
Atlanta Braves team, and then in ninety seven we blew it.
I mean, we were better than the Miami Marlins at

(21:14):
that time, the Florida Marlins, Jose Mesa can't get it
done the ninth inning, you lose the lead in the
ninth you lose an extra innings in Game seven. And
then twenty sixteen happens with the Cubs, and you know,
we were a banged up ball club and somehow got
to the World Series, had a three games to one lead,
and then people are like, well they choke. No, they

(21:34):
didn't choke. We were down to two healthy starting pitchers,
the bullpen ran out of gas. The reality was the
Cubs were really good. And yet it's one of the
most memorable Game sevens in the history of the World Series.
Raja Davis never hits a home run and as an
eight pitch at bad against Erodis Chapman and ties up

(21:55):
the game with a two out, two run, two strike homer.
Those are the memories that you know, I appreciate now
more knowing that, yeah, you didn't win, but you know
that's now nine years ago. That's how quickly it happened.
The Packer's Super Bowl in ten, I mean, I think
we all thought in two thousand and twenty eleven, well,

(22:16):
Green Bay was fifteen to one. You were like, well,
they're never going to lose, you know, And so to
your point, I think there's always a greater appreciation unfortunately
the older you get.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
Yeah, Helly, you mentioned heard score a bit ago, and
just in my time just filling in, you know, I'd
parachute in for a week or so and goo out.
But I got to know Bob Uker a little bit,
and I really I just observed him how he carried
himself around the ballpark. He chopped it up with the
guys at the clubhouse and the dugout by the batting cage,

(22:47):
and you just you learn by watching him. There there's
the craft of broadcasting, and then there's just also just
how you go about your business, interacting with the guys,
how to travel. Are those some of the things that
you picked up working alongside Herb school Yeah, as well,
in addition to the booth, what he was like outside the.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
Booth, right.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
I Mean, I've always said, man, outside of my dad,
some of the best advice anyone's ever given me came
from Herb. I mean, he and I are back on
those days driving from Tucson to Phoenix. We were the
only team in Tucson, so anytime we had a road game,
it was Phoenix. That meant and he also learned in
nineteen ninety quickly and rightfully. So there was a big

(23:27):
difference between Herb and I. I had this little compact
rental the club got me, and Herb had this nice,
big Cadillac, and so reality slapped you in the face
in a hurry, and Herb was like, well, we'll take
my car. That also meant two hours and fifteen minutes
of NonStop Frank Sinatra by the end of spring training
in nineteen ninety. If I could sing like Frank, I

(23:49):
certainly could have gone out on tour because I knew
every word of every song. But that being said, I
was excited, and you know, I'm like Herb, We're really good.
And Herb was like, hey, young man, we are horse manure.
Those weren't quite his words, but and we are going
to be horse manure and that's not going to impact
how we do a ballgame. And it was the greatest

(24:12):
advice I ever got. That day's game is one owed
your utmost professionalism effort, and don't ever forget that might
be the highlight of somebody's day. It could be a
shut in whatever I carried for the longest time until
the binder was stolen from me a card in Braille
from a blind person who explained what the broadcasts meant.

(24:37):
And boy, when you were getting it at six o'clock
in the morning and had a game that night and
you were feeling sorry for yourself, you'd look at that
card and realize how lucky am I. And so Herb
was just an incredible mentor. He wasn't the guy that
was going to give you advice, you better ask for it.
But he was incredible to me, as we said earlier,

(25:01):
because he accepted me. That gave me approval in the
Cleveland market, because none of us know when we go
to a new market will people like us. And you know,
it was an act of kindness that I hadn't earned,
but Herbs still bestowed it upon me. And you know,
then after him, you get to work with the great
Mike Heagan, who you know was one of the original

(25:22):
Milwaukee Brewers and cut his teeth. I mean, think of this,
you guys will appreciate this. When Mike was playing for
the Brewers in the off season, he was learning how
to be a broadcaster, working at WTMJ TV and radio,
and guys like Jim Irwin would tell Mike, Okay, here's

(25:43):
some copy, read it into a tape recorder. He did
that for months. Mike was learning a craft during the
off season, which is why he became such an incredible
broadcaster with the Brewers and with the Cleveland Indians when
he came to Cleveland. So I was really lucky that
those were my first two partners.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Absolutely, Hey, you also did some Badgers football, did you not?
One year with Earl Gillespie? Was this back in the day? Oh,
Earl Gilespie the guy who grew up listening to do
Braves games. Why, which Wayne might have been?

Speaker 1 (26:17):
You know, like, there are two people I always wanted
to meet, Hank Aaron because that was the guy that I,
you know, loved as a kid. And you know, we'd
get to go to one double header a year because
mom and dad had the milk in the morning and
at night. One thing about Cole's it didn't matter how
well you were milking him. Then in the morning, Mom
and Dad still had to get back there. At night,

(26:37):
we'd sit in the bleachers in right field. They were
I was the oldest of five, and I thought, well,
because my guys, Hank Aaron, that's why we're sitting there. Well,
big reason might have been bleachers for seventy five cents
a ticket. Yea so and but Earl Gillespie. I got
to do Badger Games one year with him, and that's
back in the day. Guys, it's hard to believe now,

(27:00):
you know Iowa had five different originating problems.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
Oh no, no, Ammy double that real out to Iowa.
They had thirteen. What a well covered program. You know
we had a four here. We had four when I
got here at the Leyotes.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Yes, absolute man.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
But Tom, I never got to the Nibs. I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
No, I never got to meet Earl Gillespian curse. I'll
talk to him on the phone. But when I first
moved here, I heard some highlight clips and I was
within two seconds mesmerized by his boys, his delivery. But
for you to be alongside him, right, what a what
a thrill that had to be.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Because this is a guy again you grew up listening
to I think when you when you realize you're not
good enough to be a player, at least for me anyway,
Like my first year in the big leagues was the
same as meeting Earl. I'm like, I'm meeting Early Harwell,
I'm going to meet Vin Scully. They're going to say
hi to me. That was a bigger deal the meeting
any player. And to work a year with Earle one

(28:05):
you learned how quickly he was an even better man
than he was as a broadcaster. We went out to
dinner one night. He treated this waitress she wanted because
in those days Earl was a big fisherman outdoorsman too,
and he had a show, I believe, and this waitress
showed him a fish. Well, Earle made that gal feel

(28:25):
like she had caught Moby Dick and just you know,
made her night in how he treated her. And yeah,
that was Randy Wright's senior year. Altoon was the star
wide receiver and yeah, unfortunately it was only one year.
But to say you got to work with him, for
me was one of the greatest moments of my professional life.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
You mentioned that the biggest thrill was when you got
the call to get the job, to get offered by Cleveland.
The day you got the call, I mean Mel Allen
and Red Barber are the first two inductees come to
the baseball I was broadcasters. You're on that list. Now
when you got that call, what was that like?

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Oh gosh, you know it's it still catches you, you know,
because it's still very surreal. You know, you certainly don't
feel you're worthy, but at the same time you're so
grateful and so humbled by it and the people you
have heard from since that day. One of the most

(29:31):
unbelievable phone calls. Not trying to name drop, but I mean,
first off, i'd been Dwayne Kuiper, who is another Wisconsin
and should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame, and
obviously was a very good Major League second baseman hit
his only home run off Steve Stone, by the way,
and he loves to talk about it. Stony does not.

(29:54):
But Dwayne and I were talking this summer we played
the Giants. We didn't know we were getting nominated this year.
At that point, it's just being nominated is an honor.
And they nominate ten and Dwayne goes to me, he goes,
how many times have you been nominated? And again this
is before we knew we were getting nominated both of

(30:17):
us this year, and I said three. He goes, hey
me too, I'll tell you what I'm getting. The cap
made up for the two of us, it's gonna say
three x L three time losers, So let's and so
just getting nominated with people like that is such an honor.
And you know, I never expected to get the call.

(30:38):
They don't call the nine that didn't get in. The
only person that gets a call that day is them.
And so it's eleven forty in the morning. They have
told you whenever we got nominated September, maybe look, can
you be available on December eleventh? At least be by
your phone that morning, so if you get the call,

(31:00):
we can talk to you. And it's eleven forty and
my wife and I were doing a ton of things
that day. We've gone through this before. I think the
first time, you're kind of like, ooh, I might get
the call, and then you're like, oh god. And so
it's eleven forty and work knee deep into Christmas stuff
and kind of forgot all about it because at eleven

(31:20):
forty you're like, Wow, we didn't get the call this year,
No big deal, and uh, because they're not going to
call us if they haven't call by now. And that's
when the call came. And now I realize why they
do it, because they don't release it until noon, and
they don't. They The first thing they said after talking
congratulating in listening to me, cry, I guess don't call

(31:42):
your kids. Please, don't call anyone. The team doesn't know.
No one knows. We want to be able to release
this at noon. And in this day of social media,
if they called you at nine, you know how that
would go. Oh, I think you know again, You're just
you're stunned. But like I say, you're really grateful, and

(32:05):
it's just kind of hard to fathom, it really is.
I none of us get in this business to think
about the hall. I still can't believe I got higher,
you know. And I think if you ever lose that
gratitude towards having this job or how lucky you are
to have this job, turn on a minor league game
and you'll come back to reality in a hurry. There's

(32:27):
some awfully good guys that haven't caught a break yet.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
Yeah, I no question about it. It seems like the
talent in our business, all sports, is just getting better
and better. You know. It's just it's amazing. Matt and
I had this discussion or mentioned a couple of weeks ago. Yeah,
a lot of these young guys you'll listen to. They're
really good. There's a holy cow me, Yeah, let me

(32:51):
finish my career please. But or my thought is, I'm
kind of glad I'm on this end of my career
than trying to battle through those guys on the other end.
You know, I totally agree when I and on again.
That's why.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
And I think all of us that stand it long
enough have a great appreciation for it, and don't take
it for granted, because if you do. There have been
a lot of guys that I saw get let go,
and I'd be like, wow, was he good? But I'm
glad he had a couple of things against him that
ended up maybe taking him out of the running because

(33:27):
it gave the rest of us a chance.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
What's the best piece of advice?

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Is?

Speaker 4 (33:34):
I get this question? So if I get it, I'm
sure you guys get it at times ten at least
for an aspiring broadcaster any one of your son's works
in television include But for a young someone in school,
maybe the high school, saying hey, what's the best piece
of advice you could give me? What would you.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Say the same thing we've told our four kids, and
that is have a passion for whatever it is you
want to do and follow the dream. The only person
that ends the dream as you. And again I being
redundant here, but I working your way up the ladder.
And boy, trust me, I started in Shell Lake, Wisconsin.

(34:17):
There wasn't even a ladder. That's how how low that was.
I'm living in not the basement the seller of the
radio station's mother. And uh so at that point, I'm like,
I maybe should have listened to mom, who said, why
don't you become an accountant? You're really good in math.
It's a very staple profession. There's a lot of jobs,

(34:40):
you know. And I thought about her again driving back
from Lincoln, Nebraska to Appleton, even though I had a
great job in Appleton. But all of us, I know,
all of us that are on this podcast today have
been told Noel a lot by a lot of people.
And and you can lose confidence in a hurry, or

(35:03):
you can get frustrated. Or you've got friends that came
out of high school, didn't go to college, and they're
making three times the amount of money you're making, and
they have a second home in northern Wisconsin, you know
where I grew up after we left the farm and
moved to Waterloo. If you were able to buy a home,
and then those days Perry Printing was a big time

(35:25):
employer in Waterloo and then had a lake home in Wisconsin.
Game over, you know, you had won the lottery. And
so I just keep telling kids, follow your dream because
it's not going to be easy. If it was easy,
everybody could do it, and that would be my thing.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Matt.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
I mean, it sounds simple, but there are too many
times you're ready to call it quits. And look, at
the end of the day, you might not get the
packers job, you might not get the banger's job, but
you can also be really happy with what you're doing.
The one thing I think I did appreciate, I couldn't
wait for Friday nights in Appleton. I couldn't wait for

(36:04):
the basketball game to be over, to go to this
bar that it probably shouldn't be mentioning in Manasha, where
all the high school coaches got together and then just
listen to them tell war stories. You know about that
game and that night, and these were some of the
icons of high school basketball. And to me, if you
don't enjoy what you're doing, and you're always so consumed

(36:27):
with the next step along the journey, you're going to
miss out on some really memorable times.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
You know. That's a great piece of advice. There's no
question about that. You started. I can remember my first job.
It wasn't out of college, so it took a semester
off of college. But I went to this is nineteen
seventy five, went to Pampa, Texas pee. That's with a
piece there is that it's it's it's about I want

(36:56):
to say, forty to forty five minutes northwest of Amarillo,
or as we used to call it Amarilla. And I
went down there. Here, I'm going to college in Boston.
I get this, you know, this opportunity to go down
there and do Friday night lights. And the station knew
I was only going to be there for like a semester,

(37:18):
and they put me up in a trailer near a
Jimmy Dean sausage plant. Oh now, think about this, now,
think about the aroma coming from that plant at about
how pitch o'clock in the evening. Oh my god, And
you just reeked of that the entire day. And I'm
in this little trailer and so now it's getting to
be November, and I'm starting to do some basketball, which

(37:41):
I enjoyed, and the football season is over. But it's November.
This fricking trailer has no heating it whatsoever. So I mean,
I got out of there and it was it was amazing.
But it what an experience in a little town like that,
where it's a town at the time of twenty five thousand,
the tallest structures are two tall fructures in town, the

(38:01):
Grain elevators by the Jimmy Dean Giant and the press
box of the football stadium. And every Friday night, fifteen
thousand people were in that stadium Pampa Harvesters. Yeah, it
really gave me a taste of what it's like, you know.
And Tom you mentioned live your dream. That's exactly it.
You know. When I was in college and going to

(38:22):
the Boston Garden with my tape recorder or whatever, that's
how I felt, you know. I tried to put myself
in the place of the guys who are really doing
it for real, and I think you have to kind
of believe in that. Now. Our journey is different from
the journeys today. I tell people this all the time.
You and I came up through the ranks, right, I mean,
I always knew I was gonna have to leave these
coast probably go out to the Midwest and get a

(38:44):
job to kind of work up the chain. And that's
kind of what happened. And you did the same thing today.
A lot of guys get hired because I don't know,
they were on the station for five years doing production
and whatever, and they get on the air a little
bit this then they become the convenient higher, the cheap
hire and that kind of thing. It's a little bit different,
but I still think the best way is to go
out and do play by play because until you do it,

(39:07):
how do you know if you're any good at doing it?
And how do you get good? It's a it's all
about repetition, and.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
How do you know if you like it? Although I
will say your track it makes Athens and Pickwell, Ohio
seem like a couple of hand booming metroul.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
You started at the top, Matt.

Speaker 4 (39:22):
Apparently I did if I only knew.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
You don't have any worse stories, Matt, I mean, come.

Speaker 4 (39:28):
On, it was My first job was actually WNCI and Columbus,
Ohio and Top forty station. I had no business being there.
And then they realized that, and then they invited me
to leave, you know, because that twelve thousand dollars a
year that was too much. It was blowing up their budget.
And then sometime in Athens, Ohio as a news director,
and then calling high school games and playing quote the

(39:50):
beautiful music of yesteryear. In WPTW and Pickwell, Ohio it
was elevator music, ladies and gentlemen. But I got to
call high school games. Or point Wayne, if you want
to be on the air, get on the air, you know,
get all the games and a ton of high school football,
high school basketball, some American Legion baseball, but the football basketball.

(40:10):
That was the path that I wanted to take. And
when the job opportunity opened up here, I had material
to send them.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
You know.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
It was they I was some guy from just north
to Dayton, Ohio coming into Madison, Wisconsin.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
So yeah, I think you're right.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Unfortunately, it's that there are a lot of the quote
convenient hires, but the best ones are those who have
been on the air doing play by play.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
I also thought I had an advantage. A lot of
kids have grown up in big cities and gone to
college obviously and whatnot. And for them to start in
Shell Lake in Piqua, in Pampa, they can't envision that.
But if you've been born on a dairy farm and
lived there your first twelve years, then you moved to

(41:00):
Waterloo that still doesn't have a traffic light. And when
we moved there, it was, you know, two thousand people.
It wasn't any adjustment for me to go to a
small town. I thought that was always an advantage for me.
Like when I got hired in Watertown, I was like,
my gosh, they have a McDonald's and so, you know it.
I think sometimes kids born in big cities are like,

(41:23):
I'm not you know, I'm not going to some small town.
Well then I guess you don't want to bad enough.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Yeah, you know they miss out, Yeah they do.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, no, no question. And I grew up Hammy in
a real small town of western mass and I really
needed to go to Boston. I needed to go to
a city to experience that kind of just you know,
a little bit of the opposite there. But I never
felt being in small towns that was that was a
problem because I had grown up in one. But it's
interesting how life takes you where your career turns one

(41:55):
way or the other, and you know, you think back,
I guess, in a moment like you're experiencing now, you
think back at you know, the twist and turns. Who
gave you the shot? You know, yeah, what led to
this that and the other thing, and how it all went.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, and then you know, I mean I've told this
story before, but you know I'm not here without my wife.
And I was lucky in my mind that I stayed
single because okay, I could keep chasing my dream and
then bartend at nights to try to make ends meet
because at twenty five dollars you got for doing the game,

(42:33):
well that meant you had beer money, which a big
deal in Wisconsin, but you didn't have much money for
anything else. And then you know, I met my wife
when we moved when I moved to Columbus, and you know,
we had had Nicholas. On November nineteenth of nineteen eighty nine,
the Indians job was down to their final four. I

(42:55):
was part of the Ohio State football package pre po halftime,
all of that. Well, that was a seventy hour week.
We're expecting our first child. It's Christmas week Cleveland playing
Dealer names three out of the four finalists, and I'd
never put a tape together. I hadn't sent a resume.
I was volunteering to do home games with a play

(43:19):
by play amountser for the Clippers, just to try to
get back doing some baseball, get some reps. And he
was kind enough to give me a couple of innings
of night for home games. And it's Christmas. We have
a one month old. We can't go to her family
in Pittsburgh. We can't go back to Waterloo for my family,
not with a one month old. She goes, Hey, go

(43:40):
to Christmas Mass, go to the radio station, put something
together and if she doesn't kind of hammer that home.
I would have been, Ah, you know, I missed the boat.
It should have applied, didn't. It's too late. And because
of that I was able to get an audition tape
put together. We were the flag ship for the Buck Guys,

(44:01):
so three we carried the Buck Guys three. We in
Cleveland at that time with the late great Nev Chandler.
He was the voice of the Browns. We carried the
Browns in Columbus. So the program directors had a relationship
that even though when my program director called them a
couple of days after Christmas. He said, we've listened to
two hundred takes. We're at our final four. As a favor,

(44:26):
I'll listen to it. And so the final four became
a final five. You know, I'm that close to you know,
right now i'd be saying, Matt Wayne, how do you
like your grass clip? Do you need me to shovel anymore?
Because I wouldn't have this job had she not kind
of pushed the envelope a little bit.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
That's an amazing story.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah, it's just again, how fate intervenes. You know, who
knows where this journey takes any of us?

Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeah, no question, Tommy. We're so happy for you. Thank
you guys. Gosh, it's gonna be great to see you
get into the Hall of Fame. And I know it's
a wonderful weekend up there. I've been to several ceremonies,
and you know, I just when you got that call
and I saw the you know, the internet stuff, it

(45:16):
was just amazing. And you know, you and I you're
exactly right. We never saw each other in the Big
Ten trail. You and I did games for twenty five
years on a regional TV in the Big ten, and
that's kind of how we got to meet Matt for
spart But you know, uh, I always felt like I
knew you because we were so intertwined.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
I mean listening to you every Sunday because I loved
your backer work and I loved Matt's work. I remember
talking to Matt except if you go to Wisconsin, I'm
telling you you're gonna love it. They're gonna love you.
And you know, I think that that's been proven. And
and let's say it's just a way. So you've you're
your biggest fan of sitting right across from the two

(45:58):
of you, Well, listen, we appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
Yeah, no doubt. Well you probably have a tea time
coming up. I would imagine, Hammy, you.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Know it is it's really chilly here today. It may
not get into the sixties, so oh my gosh it
And that is that wretched son out again down there.
I mean, really, you leave, you leave Cleveland in the winter,
and you know the one thing I always said about

(46:28):
Wisconsin and Minnesota, Well, the reason it's sunnier is it's
also fifteen below zero.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Where is that?

Speaker 1 (46:36):
But you leave Pleyel in December and you're like, oh,
so that's what that thing looks like now here in Arizona.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Well, Hammy, you'll you'll be shocked to hear this. But
as we record this on a Monday morning, it's going
to be in the like forty something degrees today. But
you can't have that without the wind. We're gonna have
forty mile an hour worse too. But if I did
fifty later in the week and fifty above, I might add,
but we all know that that's temporary.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
Yeah, exactly. I hope you.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
I hope you can. I hope you can rough it
out there today. If it's only going to be like
fifty eight or fifty nine degrees.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
I've got to find a pair of long pants. I
haven't had any since we're out.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Say yeah, but you know what, we'll play golf here.
And if it's forty five and not too windy, that's
good enough. You got it. That's right. Gold flags, Hammy.
I want you. I want to give you one thing
to look for because I think it's going to speak
to you. You mentioned you grew up on a dairy
farm in Wisconsin. There's a movie coming out on the

(47:36):
thirty first. It's called Green and Gold starring Craig T. Nelson.
It's all about I've seen a rough cut of it
and it's really good, is it. I think it will
speak to you and bring some tissues. And it's really
it's about dairy farm Wisconsin, the Green Bay Packers kind

(47:56):
of all this stuff and what it all means and
how it all tied together. But it's a really well
done film. Oh good, forward to it. Yeah, look forward
to it. Look forward. You're gonna really like it. Craig T.
Nelson is the lead, but gosh, the cast, the person
who plays his granddaughter just steals the show. It's great movie,
it really is. And I'm for a Wisconsin native.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah, yeah, no, I just I just think the one
thing and you guys now have been there long enough
to know it as well. The one thing about Wisconsin.
They are so proud of wisconsinights and what they've gone
through down through the years. I mean, people can name
Vince Lombardi starting twenty two from the sixties, and I'm

(48:40):
surprised it took this long for that kind of a
movie in some ways to come out, because there's nothing
more unique than the Green Bay Packers when you think
of today's sports world. It's hard to fathom, really.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yeah, yeah, but anyway, you'll love it. You'll love it,
and it's a movie I would recommend anyone, whether you're
from Wisconsin or not, but especially you kept mentioning the
dairy farm and growing up on the dairy farm, and
this is really a pretty cool movie. All right. I'd
look forward to it. Wayne, Tommy, thank you so much
for taking time out with us. Oh my gush, it
was we got to have you back again at sometimes

(49:16):
there's too much other stuff that cover I.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Loved it, And thank you Wayne, and thank you Matt
for thinking of me and for the kind words. And
like I say, you have no no bigger fan of
both your work. I always say to people, you want
to listen to a play by playcraft on the radio,
Listen to the Badgers, listen to the Packers. It's about
doing play by play the right way, and I think

(49:39):
we've lost some of that in today's world of trying
to get on awful announcing or barstool or whatnot. You
guys are are true craftsman, and I appreciate you having.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
Me appreciator time that we say the same thing about
you as one good thing about modern technology, we can
hear you bow at Jopson, which is a dutiful thing
as soundest souner. So congrats, man, take care and enjoy
what's left of your off season and look forward to
hearing you this summer.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Thanks again, guys. I enjoyed it. Thank you, Tom. You're
listening to the Larvae and the pay podcast and Matt.
Super Bowl is set Philadelphia and Kansas City. You know,
the the NFC side wasn't very interesting. You didn't get
the Detroit Philadelphia matchup that a lot of people were
looking for. Meanwhile, on theF SEA side, it was exciting.

(50:30):
I mean Kansas City, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills
right down to the wire. It was as good a
game as you're gonna see.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
Yeah, it was a feel for the Bills and their fans.
I mean, oh so close. They just can't get over
the hump. I mean when they need the drive, they
get the drive from a home so then they get
the defensive stop. I mean, Josh Allen was just terrific
this season. But Kansas City applied to pressure when it
had to and made the plays when when it had

(50:58):
to make the plays. I think in the case of
the Eagles. Wain watching this from AFAR and I've heard
folks talk about it. This is this marks the return
of the significance of the running back, the kind of
year that Saquon Barkley had. And I don't know if
this is a snapshot, but you know, maybe if you're
a running back now at the college level, there's a

(51:20):
place for you to get paid. You see some Bjon
Robinson obviously a high draft pick a couple of years ago,
and what Saquon Barkley is doing now, Like, what are
your thoughts it's a snapshot or could we see a
little trend going back to back to the running backs
being such an important part of an offense.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
I see we're going to go back. I don't know
if the running back is ever going to be paid
like a wide receiver, and certainly not as a quarterback
by any stretch, but I think the value of the
running game and we saw it with Josh Jacobs in
Green Bay. Jamiir Gibbs, a hand draft choice by the Lions.
I believe he was thirteenth overall when he came out.
Jamiir Gibbs hanned by almost all these draft experts. Oh

(52:01):
the Lions screwed that up. No, he is just a
He's a force when he's on the field. So you're
seeing the running back come back, and I think it's
not going to be just a ground and pound guy,
but a guy who can pick up a blitz on
third down, guy can leak out of the backfield and
get you on a screen past seventeen yards and break tackles,
that kind of thing. So Saquon Barkley is the poster

(52:23):
child for all this comeback of the running backs, but
it's a trend that actually probably began a year or
two ago in the NFL. I think that's really the
other thing that struck me about this whole weekend is
you know the greatness of Kansas City, and you're so
right when you're Let me go back to my experience
with the Bulls. I hate to keep going back to Chicago,

(52:45):
but there was a great team in Utah, the Utah
Jazz stocked in him Malone, and they made it to
the finals two years in a row, and they were
good enough to win it all and couldn't get past
Jordan and the Bulls. They just couldn't get past them.
There were several teams well, during that dynasty era for
the Bulls where the Bulls won three in a row

(53:07):
twice that you know, just couldn't get by the dynasty.
And you know, it goes to show you that once
in a while, you're gonna come up against one of
these dynasty teams like Kansas City, maybe like the New
England Patriots a few years ago. But and it almost
doesn't matter how good you are. Those teams have a

(53:28):
way of winning. And you know, it's like what Hammy
said about the Packers. I mean, the Packers are the
last team to win three World Championships in a row.
The Chiefs are going for three Super Bowls the first
championship and that three peat for the Packers in the
mid sixties was, you know, a non super Bowl year.
They started the Super Bowl the following year. But the
point is this, it's really hard to do and when

(53:51):
you do it, you deny probably teams that are as deserving,
maybe even more deserving than you. Because there's a persona
about a championship team and the great title teams, the
great dynasty teams. I always said this, they usually win
at least one more than they deserve, and they win

(54:15):
it on because they are who they are, you know,
and the other side is it at least not yet?

Speaker 4 (54:20):
And then you have you know, you have Michael Jordanan
in your days with the Bulls, and the Chiefs have
Patrick Mahomes. When you have to make the play, they
go and make the play. And there's a lot more
than that, obviously, but when you need your best players
to be at their best, we saw it with the Bulls.
We're seeing this with the Chiefs. So given that, are
we both picking Kansas City then to go ahead and

(54:42):
finish the job? Or can the Eagles actually get to
the finish line here?

Speaker 3 (54:47):
The Eagles mat have the best and we felt this
going into the season back in early September. The Eagles
have the best roster top to bottom, fifty three men.
They have the best roster. Will it out now or
injuries and where that puts these two teams? But suffice
to say, uh, the Eagles have the talent to get

(55:08):
it done, yes, will they? I wouldn't bet and I've
been saying this all year about the Chiefs. Don't bet
against the Chiefs until they get beat because you know,
there's something about a heart of a champion. Rudy Tom
Janovich had that quote back in the mid nineties with
the Houston Rockets when they won two in a row

(55:29):
when Michael was retired. But you know, you just until
it gets done, until somebody beats them. Who cares? How
they look? Who cares that all the eleven one score
wins this season. That's amazing when you think about credible.
You know, yeah, isn't They have an expectation that they're
going to get it done when they have to. And

(55:50):
Mahomes is that guy who, Okay, the offense hasn't been
doing much at all, the defense kind of hung in here. Okay,
now it's time to go win this game. And he
goes and wins the game. He's doing for them, Well,
we thought Aaron Rodgers was going to do for the
Packers fourteen years ago, starting that kind of a dynasty
type run. Patrick Mahomes delivers in the big games every time,

(56:15):
and so until they're beaten. I picked the Chiefs to
win this game, but I think Philadelphia has a little
bit better talent and they are certainly capable of winning
the game, especially if they get Saquon Barkley going.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
No doubt now for us. Meanwhile, in Wisconsin, it's a
basketball season where you're both immersed into the college game.
I know with the Phoenix it's been a struggle, i'll
say kindly with Green Bay, but the Panthers are having
a good year. Obviously, Wisconsin, the Badgers and Marquette are
having really good years. Long way to go, but there's

(56:47):
some pretty good college basketball going on in state of Wisconsin.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Right it really is, man, I think it's great. And
last year Green Bay was good in Milwaukee was good
in that little you know, that lower tier rival By that,
I mean mid major rivalry. You have the big schools
Wisconsin and Marquette, folks for just those of you aren't
quite into college basketball, and then you have the mid majors,
and the mid majors are Milwaukee and Green Bay, and

(57:12):
they were both good last year, and I really think
it kind of elevated the interest in college basketball in
the state because the Badgers were really good, and so
is Marquette. And this year three of the four are good.
Milwaukee's up to one oh seven of the net rankings,
which for a mid major is Good's that's kind of
ready stuff, you know, So and they look like they
have a team that and I just saw them last week.

(57:32):
They lost to Robert Morris. But Milwaukee has a team
that's capable of winning the Horizon League. It's a one
and done bid type of league. You've got to be
at your best when you play in that conference tournament
because if you're knocked out, you're not going anywhere after that,
at least not in the NCAAA. But the Badgers, let
me ask you about them, Matt, because they're scoring eighty
points a game. This is not the offense they're not running.

(57:57):
It doesn't look to me like they're running the offense
from which Greg guard game, which is bo Ryan in
the swing offense and that type of thing. Did they
They've been a real surprise from an offensive standpoint to
me on the outside looking into what say you.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
Yeah, they've really evolved, Wayne, and so there could be
some concepts of the of the swing that they have run.
But it's a ball screen continuity type of offense where
you find your wings who can really shoot it. You
want a four man who could step out and shoot it,
which they they check those boxes. They're playing at a
pace that's faster than what we have seen for a

(58:32):
number of years with Wisconsin. It's very and Greg Guard
will tell you this. He's He's mentioned it multiple times.
It is analytically driven. We see this in the NBA,
and we're seeing it more and more at the college level.
Shoot as many threes as you can, I mean, not
just jack them up, but you still want it to
be within the flow of your offense. But shoot as
many threes as you can and get shots at the

(58:54):
rim and then get to the free throw line. The
mid range jumper is in a general sense from the point.
Now John Blackwell could be pretty good at times, you know,
from fifteen to seventeen feet away, but for the most part,
you want threes, shots at the rim, and get to
the free throw line. And as we speak, they're averaging
better than eighty two points a game. They're on a

(59:15):
pace that has not been seen by Wisconsin basketball since
like nineteen seventy seventy one, that they're hitting ten made
threes per game on average. There were years, many many
years where that was the exception. You're playing a team
that you know just might run a two to three
zone at you all night, and yeah, you're going to
have to hit some threes. But this is it is

(59:37):
expected now, I know gregsad games where he's been disappointed
at the number of three point attempts. He wants more
of them in certain games. So it's been and John
Tanjay has been terrific. John Blackwell has emerged as one
of the better all around players. You know, everybody chips in.
Kamari McGee out of Racine Saint Catharines has been really good.

(59:57):
Carter Gilmour off the bench. Statistically it's not going to
allow you, but he provides defense and he's capable of
hitting a couple of shots as well from the three
point line. So so far, so good. You know, this
time last year they were eight, one of the Big ten,
and then things went sideways. There's six and three as
we record this. They've got two tough games coming up
Maryland on the road and then they go to Northwestern.

(01:00:21):
But they're they're in the mix. You know, they're they're
a team that if they could continue to play at
this level and continue to improve defensively. You know, offensively,
they're one of the better teams in the country in
terms of efficiency. Defensively, they still have work to do,
but for the most part they're on a promising path.
It could be a team that would that would be
tough to beat once you get into March.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
Who who is really is there a head and shoulders
team in this league that you would say, these guys
are head and shoulders above everyone else. Because it's such
a big league now and later on this season, I'm
going to see Purdue, I'm going to see Ucla in Illinois,
and it's just such a big league. Man, and you
go out and you go on the road on some

(01:01:04):
of these West coast swings, or Mick Cronin was complaining
about going back east four or five times from the
West coast. You know, you're gonna get beat You're gonna
have scheduled losses, like we used to say in the NBA,
Oh that's a schedule loss, you know. But so is
there one team that, like Perdue was a year ago,
they were that team?

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
Yeah, you know. Butcher and Brian Butcher I've talked about
this and he brought this up back in November. The
most talented team is probably Illinois. Now they've had guys
miss games. They have one of their key guys out
with mono right now as we speak. So they've been
beaten a few times. Michigan State is right now leading
the league, but the schedule is probably more backloaded for

(01:01:45):
the Spartans. With an eighteen team league, you're only playing
three teams twice, and then you're playing seven teams once
all at home, seven teams once all on the road.
So the schedules aren't exactly created equally anymore. But if
you look at a raw talent when healthy, Illinois is
probably the best. But Michigan State a team that kind

(01:02:06):
of defies some of the analytics. You know, they don't
shoot a ton of threes, they don't shoot them very well,
but they rebound, They do the things they've been doing
for a million years, get the ball and go, and
they're tough. This is not big. People will tell you
this is not their most talented team, but it looks
like it might be one of their better ones anyway,
because of the toughness and all the other things that
have made Michigan State famous.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Starting to look at some of this stuff that I'll
be seeing down the road, you know, it was amazing
to me. And somebody pointed this out. Purdue does not
have a single transfer on its team. I mean, the
whole team is kind of homegrown, you know what I mean. Yeah,
that's amazing. Just day and Age huh.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
Outliers Marquette in that category as well, where they didn't
have anything, realize that they've they've those are those are
exceptions to the rule. Can you count on that every year?
I doubt it, But but kudos to I've always I've
said this that Purdue is my second favorite program in
the Big Ten. I just really appreciate what you know
from the fan base, you know, to what Matt Painter

(01:03:06):
has done and Gene Katy before him. I think they
do it in a way that and Wisconsin, I know
when Dick Bennett got here kind of modeled after just
toughness and grits and you know, not worrying about being
overly pretty, just being really good and and I think
that's been the Purdue model for quite a while now,
certainly was with Katie a Hall of Famer and Matt

(01:03:27):
Painters putting himself on a path to also be recognized
as such. They're just they they figure it out. They
have talented players. But again, there just are many programs
anymore in today's world that is transferred free. It's just
very rare.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Yeah, it really is. Well, it's as we grind on here.
It's basketball season in Wisconsin and we'll look forward to
it going on. Maddy, thanks so much, appreciate it. Special
thanks to our guest Tom Hamilton, the voice of the
Cleveland Guardians, and he'll be going into the Baseball Hall
of Fame. Boy, we're proud of him and what a

(01:04:03):
neat guy he is. And Matt, thanks for setting that up.
That was a real treat.

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
Oh, it's we've both known him for a long long
time and he is you know, what are the other
pieces of advice he didn't give it, but be a
great guy like he is too, you know, as you
try to carve your niche in this business, because he
checks every box. Talent, incredibly kind to everyone, and it's
always it's always fun to catch up with him. It's
been too long.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
Yeah, absolutely well for matth This is Wayne. Thank you
very much for listening to the Larovie and La Pay
podcast Special thanks to Dave McCann, are engineer and Jeff Tyler,
our executive producer. We'll see you next time on the
Lerovie La Pay podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
The Laravie La Pay podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
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