Wayne & Matt Go One-on-One with Kevin Kugler

Wayne & Matt welcome Kevin Kugler, a veteran play-by-play voice for Fox Sports, Big Ten Network, and Westwood One. Kevin joins the show to share insight and stories from across college football, basketball, and the sports broadcast scene.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You went to Lincoln, you went to Nebraska. Am I am?
I right? Am I crazy in making that comparison.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
No, you're You're very You're very spot on. I I
have people ask me all the time, oh, what places
you like to go and what fan bases are fun?
And I always say, and I'm not saying this is
because I'm on this podcast, but to me, going to
Green Bay is the most collegiate atmosphere in the National
Football League. It has that feel, it has that energy,
it has that vibe, and Lincoln and Green Bay are

(00:30):
very similar. It's is the They're not huge cities that
are all focused on one thing, and it's that thing.
There's nothing else. And I know there's other things in
the state of Wisconsin. So please, Wisconsin, don't yell at me.
I know this.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
This is the Leravian La Pey Podcast, a production of
iHeartRadio Podcasts, with host Swayne Larvie, the voice of the
Green Bay Packers, and Matt Leapey, the voice of Wisconsin
Badger's football and men's basketball. The Laravie La pay podcast
is presented by Potawatam Casino Hotel. Your win is waiting.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
Hi, everybody, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Wayne Laravy and I'm Matt Lapette.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
Welcome to the Laravie La Pey Podcast presented by Pottawadab
Casino Hotel. Coming up on this episode, we welcome Kevin Coogler,
one of our good friends, one of the most versatile
sportscasters in our business. We'll talk broadcasting and get his
take on the landscape of college basketball and the NFL. Also,
the Packers Bears getting ready to renew hostilities on Saturday

(01:36):
night and second time in three weeks, and we'll talk
about the Badgers as well in college football and basketball.
The Lara Vie La Pay Podcast is brought to you
by Pottawadabe Hotel Casino. Your win is waiting. We welcome
in Kevin Coogler of Fox Sports Big Ten Network in
Westwood One Sports. Kevin, great to have you with us today.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Wayne, it is tremendous to be with you and Matt Tooman.
I admire very much this business. This is a cool
invite to get and I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
Tell us a little bit about you know, when you
got into the business early on. I think you kind
of got discovered when you were doing minor league baseball
in Omaha, Nebraska. And that's when Howard Denaroff, at the time,
the head of Westwood one Sports, did he get you
to do the College World Series? You were a local
guy there. How did that all work out? Well? I was.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I never actually did minor league baseball. I was doing
just the preliminary games of the College World Series for
our radio station. I did a talk show in Omaha
for twelve years and as part of that, my local
station got the rights to do the preliminary games of
the College World Series from Westwood One. Westwood One had
the rights to every NCAA event, but they didn't want

(02:44):
to put the preliminary games on. They only did the
championship Series, and so as part of my station's contract
to do the preliminary games, they required someone from the
radio station to be on the championship series. That was
sort of the the carrot that we threw in there,
and that person was me. So I did the play
by play for the preliminary games, all of the games

(03:07):
doubleheaders every day, and then I would go in and
do the Championship Series. And my first time I was
with Tony Roberts, longtime voice of Notre Dame. He was
doing the championship series of the College World Series, and
Howard Denrooff, who later would go on to lead Westward
one Sports for a lot of years, was the producer
of that event. That's sort of how I got more

(03:29):
or less discovered on a national scale. It took three
years for them to hire me in any sort of
capacity outside of the College World Series, but that was
my first exposure to anything of a national level.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Pamber of events you would guess that you call per year.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Oh boy, I would say probably between basketball, baseball, football,
the assorted other random things I do, I would about
one hundred and ten to one hundred and fifteen events
per season, per year, per calendar year.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
How do you keep it all straight? What's your process
when you have a week with multiple games, maybe it's basketball,
and then you go to football and back to basketball,
that type of thing. How do you keep it all straight?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, you know, I'm a big list maker, and so
I write up all my daily process. Here's what I
need to do today, Here's what I have to get
done today. And it was a process in getting to
that process, if that makes any sense. It was one
of those things where you just kind of learned what
you needed to do and how you need to do it.
So you make sure that you dedicated enough time for

(04:40):
each of the events that you do so that you
can give them the do that they are that they're afforded.
You've got to be able to get on the air
and act like you know what's going on, even if
you don't sometimes, but you go out there. You prepare
as often as you can, as much as you can,
and that's I just it's a matter of a week ago,
I had basketball games in three different cities, and I

(05:02):
had a football game in Chicago, and so I it
was just a matter of each day making sure that
I had everything I needed for that game, focusing on
that game, moving to the next game, focusing on that game,
moving to the next one, focusing in that and so on,
and in the downtime, prepping ahead for the games that
were still to come. So it's a it's a process,

(05:24):
it's a it's it's time consuming. But we do this
because we love the doing of this, and that's why
we keep doing things like this because we we love
the we love the process, we love the broadcasts, We
love the opportunity to share these great stories with people
who love these teams and that's why we all keep
doing this.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
So Wayne was a similar with you Bulls game on Friday,
Big Ten game, Saturday, Bulls game, Saturday night catch up
with the Packers. Were you a list guy too?

Speaker 4 (05:50):
You know kind of I knew what I had to do,
but I don't have a photograph, a photographic memory like
guys like Bob Ostas who can come in and read
a lineup, read a you know, a scorecard, and all
of a sudden, I have everybody's naking memorized.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
You know.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
The problem I found I found, especially Kevin, when I
was doing two football games in one week, that for me,
it was like final exams every week of the football
season because I had to kind of, you know, get
into each game, memorize players that I needed to memorize,
and that kind of thing. And that's the thing that
I always found was the most challenging, the preparation part

(06:31):
of it. And then, as you mentioned, I think Kevin
Harlan said this one time. He said, you can only
do one game at a time, although in the past
he's done more than one game on out a time,
but he always said, you know, you got to focus
on the game at hand. You could only do one
game at a time, and that's what you have to
really be ready for and then you know, go ahead
on the next game as best you can.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, when when for example, my week last week, when
it was Tuesday and I had a game at Indiana,
that was the focus of that day, I really didn't
do much else with my preparation for anything else, partly
because I don't want to get the other team in
my head when I'm trying to do that game. So
if I'm doing Penn State Indiana and I'm prepping ahead

(07:14):
from Minnesota Purdue, there's a fifty to fifty shot the
named Braiden Smith's gonna come out of my mouth at
some point when I don't want it to because he's
not in that game. So part of it is just
me being regimented, but part of it is me not
wanting to pollute my brain with everything else that I
have from days forwards. So it's a matter of just

(07:34):
on that day, that's the game I'm doing that day,
So I really don't try to do too much else
other than focus on that day. And you guys know,
with basketball, there's shoot arounds, there's time involved basketball on
the day of the game is more time consuming in
some ways than football can be.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
And you mentioned too that you did a talk show,
which is very you know, in Nebraska, it's Huskers, probably
all Huskers all the time, much like in this state,
where it's most of the time. How did you balance that, because,
I mean, you were as a game caller, you weren't.
I mean, you were the voice of what was in
Nebraska Omaha football for a while, but for the most

(08:11):
part it was more of a regional or national thing.
But was it still a delicate balance between the talk
show four hours a day and then calling the games
as you did it? Was it?

Speaker 2 (08:23):
You know, the talk show is a very different animal.
And I learned this because I was only doing very
local play by play. Like you said, Nebraska Omaha which
had a football team at the time they don't anymore,
and basketball it's a division was a Division two school.
Now they're Division one. But at the time I was
just a play by play guy. And I started doing
a talk show and I had to learn how to

(08:45):
give an opinion. I didn't. I wasn't an opinion guy.
I came up as well, I'm a play by play guy,
so I say, first out and ten and second down
and eight and I don't inject my opinion into too
many things. That was how I was taught to do this,
and I learned very quickly you can't do that on show.
If you go on the air and are just playing
down the middle, that's not the way to do it.
So I had to figure out a how to add

(09:06):
lid for four hours, and b how to come up
with opinions and then stand by those opinions with challenge.
So it was a really good thing for me to
learn as I moved forward in the broadcast world. It
helped me a ton. It helped me a lot formulating
thoughts on the fly. It helped me a lot with
forming opinions and standing by them and being able to
express them. And that was one thing that I thought

(09:27):
really helped me as I moved forward. The balance came later.
I did the talk show for twelve years. The last
half of that was when I was starting to do
college football in college basketball and then later the NFL
for Westwood One. I left the talk show when my
TV stuff started to take off because I didn't think
I could balance that the same as I did to

(09:49):
radio stuff. There were just too many eyes. There were
going to be too many local connections. I was working
for the Big Ten Network and I knew I was
going to be doing games. It was hard for me
to fathom having a strong opinion about Nebraska athletics and
or a coach and then going in a meeting with
that coach the next day and trying to be down

(10:10):
the middle guy. So it was one of those those
needles I didn't think I could thread, and so I
decided I would stop doing the talk show to focus
on the play by play.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
You know, Kevin, even when you're doing a regional play
by play as we did for so many years in
the Big Ten, you're going to both markets. You've got
fans from both sides, and it's kind of a prelude
to what you're doing now with Fox in the NFL.
I mean, you're going to both cities. You really got
to cut it down the middle, so to speak. But

(10:40):
also you've really got to be in the know, and
that involves a lot of time with you know, I imagine production.
You said the shoot a rounds of basketball I think
are invaluable when you meet both coaches and you see
the players on the court. That type of thing football.
You guys have production meetings and things like that. I mean,
it's very important that you have an idea, somewhat of

(11:03):
an inside idea on the upcoming opponent on on both
sides in those situations, is it not?

Speaker 2 (11:10):
It is that it's a difficult thing to do sometimes
because I'm never going to have the same knowledge of
if I drop into a Packers game or I drop
into a Badger's game, I'm not going to have the
same knowledge as you guys. You live it every single day.
That's your life, and that's what you do, and you
guys do it so well. There's no way I'm going
to come in as a national guy and have that

(11:32):
overarching view of the Packers. But you also have to
be careful because I can't come in if I'm doing
the Packers game this weekend. I can't walk into the stadium,
go on the air and act like people who are
watching haven't been along for the entire ride. I can't
start telling stories from camp because it's December. I can't
be that guy who comes in and says, well, you know,

(11:52):
in camp they did this or that. No, no, no, I
have to be able to jump in as the boats
floating down the river midstream and float along with it
for the week that it's happening. So you do a
lot of reading, but you prioritize what you read and
what you get from the coaches and players to be
more relevant for the moment versus the biggest picture you

(12:14):
can have. And I think that's the mistake sometimes you make,
is you come into this thing, and because you haven't
followed it all year, it's easy to get lulled into
the sense of, well, gosh, this is important because I
didn't know it. Yeah, but everybody who's watching this who
cares about this game knows that story. You're not telling
anything new, you're not giving any new grounds. So you

(12:34):
have to kind of figure out a way to balance
the national view of this with My audience is well
versed in what's going on. My audience understands what's happened
with this team over the course of the season. So
you have to be able to sort out what's important,
what's new, and maybe find a new angle on why

(12:56):
things have worked. We have a game this week in Denver,
and one of the things that we're looking at this
week is what's changed for these two teams since things
have happened over the last few weeks. For the Broncos,
JK Dobbins got injured, what's happened since then? For the Jaguars,
what changed for them since the bye week? Those are
the things that we look at and we do that
every single week, regardless of the game. What's different recently

(13:19):
that maybe we can add a little something to a
conversation that's been going on locally or within the fan base.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
I've always been interested in with both of you guys too.
It's inside Ball, but it's a podcast. That's part of
the purpose, right you can get inside a little bit.
Is you work with a lot of different partners on
air partners I mean it's Darryl Johnston now right with
Fox and in thefl Alison Williams on the sidelines, but
with basketball it can vary. Wayne, you have gone through that.
What's that challenge like just making sure you get the

(13:48):
best out of your broadcast partner, giving him or her
in the case of Allison, the space to do their thing,
because everybody probably goes about it a little bit differently.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Well, for me, it's about communication and listening. Those are
the two most important things I need to communicate with
them what's important to them. And you know it's different.
I do radio and I do TV, and the role
is different. On radio, my job is to be more descriptive, more,
I talk more because I'm the eyes of the people
who are not able to see the game, So it's

(14:21):
a little bit more of me on that radio side.
But on TV, I'm the point guard. My job is
to set up the analyst, make sure the sideline reporter
gets what she needs. And the only way you can
do that, especially when you rotate through a lot of people,
is listen to what they need and communicate with them
to find out what they are most interested in so
that I can then know what to set them up on.

(14:43):
And that's what you spend the day with these folks
when it's basketball, and those are the conversations you have
to have. What do you like tonight? What do you
see in this game? What stands out to you? And
we have and football is at a little different beast,
especially for our crew. We're together eighteen weeks out of
the year, so by this point I've we all sit down.
We have a meeting on Saturday nights and everybody goes

(15:04):
over what they think is important to them. Stories, they like,
things they want to do, and so then I write
them all down and I make sure that I when
it's an opportunity, if I can, I'll get on with
my producer and I'll say, hey, this is a good
this might be a good spot for Alison to tell
her story about X or you know, Darryl and I
will talk during the breaks and I'll say, where do
you want to go? Now? What do you like here?

(15:25):
And so we'll kind of try to steer the conversation
to something that we're seeing in the game that he
finds relevant. So it's to me, it's just about listening
in communication. Those are that's always the answer, and a
lot of you know, I try to use that my
relationship with my wife. She might argue that that's not
the case, but in a lot of different areas in life,
listening in communication are the two biggest things.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
Yeah, I can't I echo those sentiments, Kevin, you said
it very well, you know, And it's interesting because people
are all different, and so you know, like maybe one
night I'm working with a Sean Morris and the next
night I'm working with the Johnny red Kerr or somebody
like that, and they're very different about how they go
about things. But that chemistry aspect, now you can do

(16:07):
it with your NFL crew because you're with them, as
you mentioned Kevin, eighteen weekends a year. But chemistry is something.
How do you foster that? Like when Moose Johnson joined you,
and now Alison Williams joins you. And by the way,
she's one of the best reporters from the sideline. You'll
see in television that the way they breakup with ESPN

(16:29):
was over that COVID issue and all that stuff. That
was ridiculous, but you guys benefited and I think she
did too. I remember talking to her earlier this season
on the sidelines one of the games you guys had,
and that she always wanted to get to the NFL. Anyway, Well,
here she is, and she's really good. But that chemistry develops,
and I don't know if it's it's Sometimes it's it's

(16:50):
natural and sometimes it's not. I've worked with Cruse, like
when I was in Chicago, our crew on the Bears
went out to dinner every Saturday night before the game,
and not that we talk that much about the game,
but we talk to each other about different things and
it led to an underlying chemistry that I can't put
words to, but that did translate onto the air. Some people,

(17:12):
some teams are like that, some aren't. But I think
it really helps if you have a relationship with these
people as much as you can off the air, the
one hundred percent. That's one of the things that you
have to have. And look, you mentioned the name Sean Morris,
great basketball analyst. I've never met a person who didn't
like Sean Morris. That's an easy relationship to foster. He's

(17:32):
one of the great human beings of all time, and
so I consider him a close friend.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
And I would say there are most people who work
with him that would consider him a friend. That's just
the kind of person he is. There are people like
that that are very easy to form relationships with. Moose
is another one of those guys that we've been together
two years now and we enjoy each other's company. I
think he would say the same thing. I enjoy being
around him. We eat meals together every single Saturday night

(17:58):
as a crew, and then Darryl I have breakfast together
every Sunday morning. That's just part of our routine that
we do to and we rarely on our Sunday mornings
before the game talk about the game. It rarely comes up.
We just kind of go over the week, what's going on,
how's your family, what's new? This, that, or this? And
it's the ability to build that relationship that has to

(18:21):
show up on the air on Sundays. To me, if
it feels like the crew isn't having fun doing the game,
why as a viewer or a listener would I want
to invest any of my time listening to people who
are miserable with each other. I can find people who
are miserable around each other. I could turn on any
news channel during the course of the day and find

(18:42):
a bunch of miserable people yelling at each other about
who knows what political issue. But I want to be
watching sports. I want to find myself enjoying that moment
as a fan. And if I don't think these two
if I feel like these two guys are this crew
just doesn't really care about each other, It doesn't enjoy
being around each other, whether they're good, whether they really

(19:03):
do or not, I really want to feel like, hey,
this is an enjoyable listen. This is something they enjoy,
So maybe I'm going to enjoy investing time in it
as well. And to do that, I have to invest
the time before the broadcast to be able to have
that relationship. I need to create that relationship. And so
that's one of the things that I've learned over the
years that it's hard to it's hard to fake that.

(19:25):
I worked with James Lofton for a lot of years
on Sunday nights. James and I broke a lot of
bread together and we had a lot of meals together,
and it's one of the great relationships I've ever had
on air because of that. It's not because of our
football knowledge. It's just I learned how to work with James,
and I learned how to be with James. And that's
you can say that with anybody you've ever worked with.

(19:45):
It's just the time you spend away from the air
that makes the on air better.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, that's why I'm lucky on the radio side with
it and Kevin, you've worked with Brian Butch I believe
with this since I know but she's doing it and
you say dinner, I'm still waiting for him to pick
up the tab. But maybe at some point.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
But he's the way the loss. But he's such a.
He's such a fun.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Guy to be around. And the same thing with Mark
Tauscher on the football side. They're both broadcasters who played,
but they like they they want their teams to win,
but they it's about having fun and trying to bring
the listener in. And that's and you mentioned Sean Morris.
I'm just thinking probably a lot of discussions over Diet
Coach about the top five Leonard Skinnered songs of all time.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
I believe I believe the number is sixty in concerts
that Seawan has been to of Leonard Skinner. There is
no greater Leonard skinnerd fan alive than Sean Morris, although
I will say a close second. Seawan got to meet
Larry the Cable guy at a Nebraska game a couple
of years ago, and Sean still talks about the picture

(20:47):
that we took that I took of he and Larry together.
It's one of his prize possessions. He I mean, this
is the time of year where you'll if you talk
to Sean, he will mention a very Larry Christmas is
one of the great Christmas albums of all time. So
this is this is Sean Morris.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
Oh, it's amazing Yeah, he's the best Leonard Skinner that
maybe that's part of why we got along so well,
because that's one of my favorite groups as well.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
That would be one.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
You know, really, it's amazing when things how things coming together.
In the broadcast, The Larovie La Pey Podcast is brought
to you by Potawataby Hotel Casino. Your win is waiting
by the way for our listeners if you just popped in.
Kevin Coogler, Fox Sports Westwood One, UH national play by
play broadcaster. We're honored to have him today on the

(21:38):
Lara Vie La Pey Podcast. But you know, when when
you look at these things in totality and you put
a team together, I think it's up to management also
to be able to take a look at the personalities
of people and say that might work. Especially now doesn't
know when we do basketball and we're doing different games
and all that, so that's a different story. But when

(21:58):
you put together a team for or an NFL season
or a college football season, you got to kind of
look at the personalities of the people and how they
fit together. You got to have an idea about that.
But then there are these stories and Matt and I
had the author of Some are all Madden or Madden,
Some are all whatever the name of the book was,

(22:19):
and the story was is that Brookshire and Some are
all Tom Brookshire or Pat Some are all preceded as
the number one team Madden in somemmer all. Well, you know,
Brookshire and Some are all were very close and in
a somewhat detrimental way in many respects. Meanwhile, when they
paired up, you know, some are all with Madden. It

(22:41):
wasn't instant chemistry. And in fact, those two guys are
so different. They didn't spend time away because Madden was
not a big drinker or anything like that. And you know,
he didn't like the social life. He liked the football
x's and o's and that type of thing. He was
very much who you saw in the air. So but
for their chemistry to come together on the air are
rare instances where guys don't get along, and yet what

(23:04):
they do on the air is pure chemistry.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
And that's a testament to their abilities as a play
by play announcer and an analyst, because that's tough, I mean,
especially if you are in a season long team, if
you're a football crew that is together for eighteen weeks
or more over the course of the year. If you
don't like the person you're with, I have to imagine

(23:30):
that's really difficult. I've been so fortunate in my career
that I have worked with a number of people, and
I cannot think of any that I walked away from
another boy I don't like that guy, or don't like
this guy. I mean, when I started at Fox, I
was with Chris Spielman. Now maybe he would say he
didn't like me because he left mid season to go
into the front office with the Detroit Lions, so perhaps

(23:52):
I drove him out of football. Then I was with
Brock Heward, who's one of the great gentlemen in the game.
Then I was with Mark Sanchez. Then I was with
Moves for the last couple of years. And when I
was doing radio, I was with Mark Malone. For a
lot of years, I was with James Lofton. I mean,
I've been with people whose company I have really enjoyed,
and that includes my two main sideline reporters, Laura Oakman

(24:15):
and Alison Williams, who I've also enjoyed over the course
of my time doing this stuff. So it's been it's
been a lot of fun to do that on the
football side, and then on the basketball side. Basketball is
just it's just a different sport. It's different from the
ability to interact with the coaches. I feel like you
get better stuff from basketball coaches than you do from

(24:35):
football coaches. They're just more it's more of an intimate setting,
fewer people that you have to sift through to get
to those guys. And the same is with analysts. I mean,
I've worked with some absolute gems over the years, from
Bill Raftery, who's among America's greatest humans, to John Thompson,
to Robbie Hummel to I mean, you name it. It's
been a lot of fun and I'm very fortunate. But

(24:56):
I don't know how people do it when they don't
like the person that there with. That's that's a challenge,
and I think it shows on the air.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
I've always thought the biggest test to that are the
baseball broadcasters, and there have been instances, fortunately not around
here but elsewhere where they haven't and they haven't gotten along,
and it has gotten ugly in an instance or two.
But yeah, that that to me is is the ultimate
test of in that sport, and probably to some extent

(25:23):
the NBA as well. I want to shift focus Kevin.
I made an observation to Mark Tauscher last year when
Wisconsin's football team went into Lincoln and lost the Huskers
in Nebraska. You finally broke through after all the years,
and I go to a bowl game and they became
Bowl eligible and that was a big deal last fall
in Lincoln. And I turned to him and Mark, you know,

(25:45):
Mark's a Green Bay Packer Hall of Famer eleven years there.
I said, Taos, tell me if I'm crazy, But I
come into Lincoln, Nebraska, and it feels a lot like
Green Bay. It's the college version.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Wayne.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
You've been I think you've been to Lincoln a time
or two for games. But do you agree with that?
In a lot? But you you're around that, You're in Omaha,
but you went to Lincoln, you went to Nebraska. Am
I am? I right? Am I crazy in making that comparison?

Speaker 2 (26:12):
No, You're You're very very spot on. I have people
ask me all the time, oh, what places you like
to go and what fan bases are fun? And I
always say, and I'm not saying this is because I'm
on this podcast, but to me, going to Green Bay
is the most collegiate atmosphere in the National Football League.
It has that field, it has that energy, it has

(26:33):
that vibe. And Lincoln and Green Bay are very similar.
It's is the They're not huge cities that are all
focused on one thing, and it's that thing. There's nothing else.
And I know there's other things in the state of Wisconsin,
so please Wisconsin. It don't yell at me. I know this.
But in Green Bay it's all about the Packers, and

(26:55):
in Lincoln and the state of Nebraska, it's all about
the corn Huskers, especially the corner football team. Now where
basketball stayed in Nebraska now because the Husker basketball team's
the top fifteen team and the football team hasn't been.
So it's all basketball and volleyball to a certain extent.
But from the football standpoint, it is very similar to
Green Bay. The fan base, the energy, the expectation which

(27:17):
is always there, regardless of what's happened in the previous
season or even the previous week. It's a very similar
vibe in those two places.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
Yeah, you know, I'd like to ask both of you guys,
when you look at a situation like that, a fan
base like that, when you're talking to I mean, does
does you get do you get a little more juiced
up when you know the game, like, for example, there
are some places where the game doesn't mean a whole lot,
you know what I mean? You could tell you go
to LA and you know, if the Lions are playing

(27:48):
the Rams, they are fifty thousand Lions fans there and
in the Rams are real good folks, and LA will
come out and support them when the playoffs show up,
I would imagine. But still, you know, when you the
fan base feels the way they do about a team,
do you feel that from the booth where you are, Kevin?

Speaker 2 (28:06):
I do absolutely when there is a passionate fan base
that adds to the broadcast. I learned years ago, and
like I said, my TV career kind of made it
my I have segued radio to TV in the mid
twenty tens and I had a producer, still do have
a producer named Mark Fox who it's a tremendous producer

(28:29):
and one of the things that he worked with me
early on was using that crowd. When I feel a crowd,
I should use that crowd to enhance my broadcast. That
was not anything you ever did A whole lot in
radio because I had drilled into me the dead air
was bad air. You can't have dead air. You gotta talk,
you gotta have noise, and that was something that I

(28:50):
was very cognizant of. But then he steered me into, Hey,
look on TV, the crowd is your friend. Use that crowd.
Let the director some shots. Make this a part of
your broadcast. And that's something that I've really tried to do,
not only football wise, but basketball wise. And you have
to have that crowd that you talked about, Wayne, in
order for that to be usable. You can't do it

(29:12):
in a place where there's nobody there.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
And you know, Kevin, another thing that we do on radio,
we've tried to do this with the and we've had good,
great engineers on the Packers Radio Network and our engineer
now in his first year, John Tyler. We discuss the
telecast and the broadcast team that the network has there.
What's the microphone set up on the field, the acoustics,
you know, will you be able to hear the quarterback?

(29:36):
Because I'll describe a play and set up a formation,
and if I can hear the quarterback in the background,
I will get to a point where I just pause
and I want that quarterback. I want to hear him
call out the final you know, like say hut or whatever,
you know that kind of thing. I want that to
go out. And then I start describing the play because
that takes a listener in the car right down to

(29:57):
the line of scrimmage. And you know, so dead air,
that's not really dead air because you're hoping that you
have a good crew and your crew is really good
on this getting those sounds from the field into the
telecast or the broadcast, and it's really good because and
what does it have to do with ours, Well, we
pipe into your gnat sound and that's really what it made.

(30:21):
That makes a big difference for us. Now you're in
a dome, you can't do that. Maybe you're in Seattle
where the crowd noise is just incessant and you're not
going to hear the quarterback. But when you can in
a normal situation, you could really do some good work.
And like you said, it pours through the television screen
too without too much hype.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Had challenge. The challenge for me my first year on
TV WANE was it was twenty twenty and there wasn't
anybody in the stands it was the COVID year of
the NFL, and so the only crowd noise I had was,
as you described, the parabolic Mike's picking up with the quarterback.
And it wasn't hard. I mean you could really hear
the quarterback sometimes from the booth, because when we were
in New York there wasn't a soul in those stadiums.

(31:00):
I could hear whoever, Daniel Jones or whatever, just barking
out signals as if you were down on the field
with him. So you learned at that point, Okay, that's
a weapon. I can use that a little bit of
my broadcast and we still that's still something that I
will be aware of. And when a quarterback's up to
the line changing the play, I'll stop and I'll just
let the picture and the sound carry it. It's a

(31:22):
very powerful thing.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, the more that sounded better and with us on
the college level, because quite honestly, because if the Badgers
haven't been all that good the last few years, you're
not getting the a production quality from the television partners.
But you mentioned the COVID year. I was in my
fill in years with the Brewers. One of them was

(31:43):
in twenty twenty and there was a walk off home
run and you know in television you lay out right,
And then I watched it back and I'm going I
laid out for canned crowd noise and maybe this was
maybe you could cheat on this one and have more
of a radio description after. But yeah, that presented challenges
to all of us in different ways. But no, I

(32:05):
waiting to your question too. I mean, for me, going
into Lincoln is always fun. And the amazing thing with
Nebraska fans too because basketball it still has it won
in NCAA tournament game in the history of the program,
but you wouldn't know it walking in there because even
in years where they're more so so, you know they've

(32:26):
been in a tournament a few times, but even in
years where maybe they're not a tournament qualifier, the crowds
are still good. The crowds are still lively. And this
year in Wisconsin, just played there, got drilled, which have
just played there and the place was close to full
on an eight o'clock game on a Wednesday night. And
football the same. I think they still have the consecutive

(32:47):
sellout street going out. There's some creative math maybe at times,
but they're not far off you know, if not every
seat is filled, it's pretty close.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
But they're really.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Good fans too. I'm not just saying because Kevin is
here now maybe in your talk show days, you've got
a little different version of Nebraska nice to visiting programs.
I think they're They've been pretty good about it. They
want their team to win, They're very passionate about their team.
But that's just been a good that's been a good stop.
I'm not so sure about some of the other additions

(33:19):
to the Big Ten, but Nebraska's edition, I think has
been has been really good because of the passion that
the fans have down there.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
It's a it's a it's a fan base that is
starved for success and they haven't had it in football
in a long time. As you mentioned, they've never had
in basketball. I will argue still. You were in the
building for one of the loudest Nebraska basketball games in
the history of that program, and it was the It
was one of the Tim Miles early years, I believe

(33:49):
his second year. I was on the call television wise
with Sean Morris uh and it was Nebraska Wisconsin and
Nebraska needed to win that game to lock up an
NCAA Tournament Berth and the crowd decided they were going
to stand the entire game. It was No. Six Sunday,
and that place was deafening that day. I mean I

(34:10):
probably called half the play by play that I normally
would because the crowd just filled in so many gaps
in that game. But it was. It was a raucous atmosphere.
Wisconsin was the opponent, was a really good Wisconsin tine
and Nebraska beat them and sent that place into a frenzy.
And that's that's what Nebraska wants to be. They just
unfortunately have had so much flux in their football program.

(34:32):
And you guys know this, no matter what you do
in any of the other sports, football is the welcome
matt to your university, and if the football is not
what it needs to be, it's a problem for the
entire university. You've got to have you've got to have
a solid ground for your football team to stand on
so that every other sport has a solid ground stand up.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
Very true.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
I think that was twenty fourteen, if I remember right,
and that was it was. It was a great game,
and obviously wiscontent went on to the Final four that year,
but that as a major, major moment. It reminded me
of some of the moments that Wisconcert basketball had in
the nineties of breaking through, securing a bid a couple
of games, even at the old UW field House, And
that's what I equate that game form from the Nebraska

(35:14):
point of view. But you're right about I mean, Wisconcert
right now has the winners. Volleyball team is in the
national semifinals as we record this, the hockey team. Both
hockey teams are really really good. I think the Wisconsin
basketball team is going to be pretty good this year.
But football scuffling and that is that's that's the main event,
like it or not, So I think both programs. Nebraska

(35:37):
is a little ahead of the game right now, but
I don't think either fan base is remotely close to
satisfied with what's been going on.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
I think that's a safe assessment. There's grumbling in both
areas for different reasons, that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
V Lere Van Lapey podcast is presented by Potawatami Casino Hotel.
Your win is waiting a great story, a great piece
in the Sun Times about you, just you, your career,
and it's if people who have access can certainly, you know,
get to that because it kind of it tells tells
your story. But you said something within the stories, I'm

(36:13):
shifting to the current events with the Packers Bears coming up.
You had mentioned you called the Packer Bear game at
the end of the regular season last year, right, And
and in one of the meetings you met with with
Caleb Williams, or quarterback, and you said he looked drained
you had you had the Bears Browns last week. How
does he look now?

Speaker 2 (36:31):
He's a completely different person. And I I said it
to him when we met with him before the game.
I said, hey, I I talked with I did an article.
They did an article about me this week, and I
said in the article that I thought you were exhausted
and I thought you were draining, he goes. I was,
I was beat up, I was, he Goes.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
I got hit.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
He was sacked sixty eight times last year. I mean,
in his first year that we've seen what that's done
to other rookie quarterbacks in this league. It's it's broken them.
We've seen it happen in this league before the fact
that they went out. He's a completely different quarterback, completely
different vibe. From him. Now he's not being sacked as much.
Ben Johnson has really resonated, I think with Caleb Williams,

(37:15):
and so that's helped his demeanor. They went out and
made sure that they retooled the entire interior of their
offensive line, which has changed everything for the Spars team
in my opinion. They don't get that pressure up the
middle that they used to that they'd got so often
last year. Caleb has more time, he's more confident, he's

(37:36):
in better shape because he's not getting beaten up. We
had him last year before that Packers game, And I mean,
if you just said to me, describe Caleb Williams, then
I have said, that's a man who wants to lead.
He wants to go home, he wants to hide in
a closet for about two weeks and sit in the
dark and think about all his poor life choices, because
it just felt like a man who had been beaten

(37:56):
down by life. And meeting with him last week complete opposite.
He is refreshed, he's renewed, and I think a lot
of that is the fact that he's been upright most
of the year, but a lot of that is also
the fact that he's being coached differently and more appropriately
than he was last year. Remember, he went through all
the different coaching changes and offensive coordinators and quarterback coaches

(38:20):
and all this stuff that changed throughout the course of
that chaos last season with the Bears. It's a much
more stable franchise now with Ben Johnson, and I think
the biggest beneficiary of that is Caleb Willims.

Speaker 4 (38:31):
I think you're right, Kevin, And you know, the thing
that impressed me about Caleb Williams last year, more so
even than this year, is the fact that beaten down
as he was, and that type of thing. I don't
think he ever respected the offensive people that were directing him,
but he would leave the Bears from behind and get
them in a position to win a game, and one

(38:53):
game against the Packers if Carl Brooks has a manicure
that week, the Bears win that game in Chicago because
Cairo Santo's kickoff field goal doesn't get blocked, you know,
and then in Green Bay a number of weeks later.
You know, I did understand the Packers weren't really playing
hard to win that game because they had their playoff
situation all set. But Caleb Williams against Jeff Hafley's defense

(39:16):
drives that team into position, sets up Cairo Santos for
a game ending field goal to win. This time it
goes through the uprights. I was so impressed with the
Caleb Williams and I watched tape of the game with Seattle,
I believe a week before last year, where he directed
them again into a position to win down the stretch,
and for whatever reason, they didn't get it done, but

(39:38):
it wasn't his fault. I think this kid's gonna be
the real deal. I think he's going to be a
heck of a quarterback. Well his accuracy ever be seventy percent,
probably not, because he's a very athletic guy and does
a lot off the move. I mean, I think he's
better outside the pocket now than he is inside. That
will improve, but I think for the most part, he's
always going to be looking downfield trying to create a

(39:59):
big plays. I don't know if he'll ever get to
Ben Jonson seventy percent passing like Jared Goff, but he's
going to be I think he's going to be a
great quarterback. What's your impression after watching him for a
while now.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
I agree with you on the completion percentage, and we
asked Ben Johnson about that again last week and he said,
we're always going to try that's always going to be
the goal. We're always going to strive for seventy percent.
But I agree with you for the reasons you said.
But you look at plays that he makes, and my
mind goes you. As you were talking, Wayne, my mind
went back to a play in the Browns game where
he rolled out to the right and he kept rolling

(40:32):
and he was about to the sideline and he's directing
traffic downfield, and then he turns his body and he
zips a pass between two Browns defenders to the back
of the end zone, and DJ Moore, running along the
back line of the end zone somehow ends up with
the football for a touchdown. To me, that's a play
that defines who Caleb Williams is now. He's able to

(40:53):
make that strong throw on the run almost away from
where his target is with pursuit with the sideline through
two defenders, and I think because he's being coached the
way he is now, I think he's got more freedom
and more confidence to be able to make a play
like that where maybe he doesn't necessarily make that throw

(41:14):
at times last year because he's concerned about X Y
or Z. I think he has that freedom, and I
think he has the feeling that he's not going to
be punished or chastised or demoted in any way. Not
that he was demoted last year, but he's not going
to be criticized for making that throw from his coaching staff,

(41:35):
from his teammates. That's the kind of play Caleb Williams
can make, and it was an impressive throw to DJ
Moore that scored a touchdown in their rout of the
Browns last week. And it's going to be very important
for him as he develops to be able to do
things like that, and I think Ben Johnson's going to
give him the tools to do that. It's been an
impressive turno. They're not there yet. There's still some flaws

(41:55):
with that Bears team, to be sure, but they're clearly
night and day different from where they were at this
time last year.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Picture for both of you guys, there seems to be
the wisdom that there maybe isn't a great team out there,
although the Broncos might raise their hand having won eleven
in a row. Wayne, you mentioned the Rams. I've heard
people talk about this year is more important than most
to get the home field. You know, with the Packers,
we've seen a little up and down with that in

(42:25):
recent years, the success rate. But do you agree with
that assessment just in a general sense that it maybe
is more important this year than many others to get
the home field if you possibly can in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I don't know that I do agree with that because
I don't know that there's a great team this year
in the NFL. I've seen a lot of good teams.
You know, the Broncos as we record this are the
number one seed in the AFC. Like, the Broncos are
very good. They have a great defense, But are they
the best team as of now? Yes, but I don't

(43:01):
know that they're the best. Would I be worried about
going into Denver to play them on a sixty degree
day in January? Probably not. I mean, if I'm a
good team, I just don't know that the home field
is going to mean as much this year when we
don't have a team in my opinion that's great in
this league. There's a lot of good, but good can

(43:23):
beat good no matter where they play.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
Yeah, I think you're right, Kevin. In many regards. I've
kind of thought about that over these number of weeks.
There is not a great team. There are some teams
that have great records in the NFL to day, but
there's not a team of the ilk of the run
Detroit was on last year at this time, or Philadelphia
or Kansas City or Buffalo or Baltimore. Nobody liked that

(43:48):
on that kind of a run. So I really think that, yeah,
we see a lot of upsets. I mean, we see
Atlanta the other night going into Tampa Bay, where Tampa
is a playoff team. They're trying to secure the playoff
per Atlanta goes in there with nothing to play. Thirty
eight year old or thirty nine year old Kirk Cousins,
you know, he goes in and beats them, and you

(44:10):
know the games are close. But I do think it's
kind of wide open, and I don't know how strong
the home field will be once we get to the playoffs.
I know Denver feels very strong about their team and
where they are and how they're playing, but the Packers
are beating them like a drum, you know, moving the
ball up and down against that great defense until they
got banged up and Watson goes out and then they

(44:31):
lose Micah Parsons and the Packers lost the Battle of
attrition to the fourth quarter in that game. But nonetheless,
I think this is going to be a wild ride.
And that's why it's so important. Just get to the playoffs. Okay,
if you don't get home field, fine, but get to
the dam playoffs, because you know what, it's a roll
of the die this year more so than it was
a year ago.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Yep, I agree. I mean, if you can get your
foot in the door, you've got a chance to go
to the super Bowl this season more so than almost
any year. And I I mean, look, I look at
the team like the Houston Texans. That's a team that
was struggling at the beginning of the year. They seem
to figure it out a little bit behind another great defense.
They may not even win their division. They get into

(45:13):
the playoffs as a wild card. I think they've got
a puncher's chance as much as anybody else in the playoffs.
Just get in. See what you can do when you
get there. I think there's gonna be some real surprises
this year when we get into that playoff field. And
I mean, it's gonna be a it'll be a really
hard race to handicap with teams getting in there. How

(45:34):
does the Patriots have been the talk all year long,
How does young Drake may do on that stage.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
I assume he'll do well, but we've seen it happen
to quarterbacks who have had more vintage in their game
than he does struggle on that stage. So I'm anxious
to see what happens. I just think it's a wide
open playoff field.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
And the biggest example of all this is Buffalo last
week going into New England and knocking off a red
hot Patriots team. Coming off there by week, you know,
everything was in favor of the Patriots, and by the way,
for three quarters it was twenty one nothing, and then
Josh Allen and the Bills just took over and did
what they do because they kind of know how to
win these games, and the Patriots are still learning that.
So I think it's going to be a wild shootout

(46:14):
in the playoffs and it'll be interesting to see. But
there are teams with great records, but there aren't great
teams in the league this year.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
I think that's a great way to put it. There
are just there's not a lot of great teams, but
some of those teams have great records. Maybe that'll carry
over in the playoffs. But again, I think there's going
to be some team that gets into this field that
surprises everybody once they get started in January.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Really appreciate this, Kevin. I know you've got the next
game out. Did you have any basketball games between now
and Sunday or I'm.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Sure you do. I do not know I have. I'm
basketball games this entire week, you know, the holiday break
and finals week and everything. It's wonderful for prepping for
a football game. I hardly know what to do with
my time, though. I mean, I feel like I'm gonna
have way more information than I need for this Broncos
Jaguars game that I'm doing on Sunday, And you know,

(47:06):
hopefully I don't screw it up with overload of information.
I just got to keep it. I just got to
rein it in pretend that I had three basketball games
this week.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
Yeah, Kevin, that's gonna be a great ball game out there.
And it's in Denver, right, it is in Denver. Yeah, Yeah,
that'll be a great ballgame because the Jaguars are playing
really well right now. They've come into their own and
the Broncos we talked about them. They're really good football team.
So it'll be an interesting week. But you know, I
guess we'll let you get back to your over preparation
since you don't have five other games we now.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Then I'm gonna go study more on bow Nicks and
see if I can find something about him from his
fifth grade football team and I could use in this broadcast.

Speaker 4 (47:44):
I'll tell you what that guy is coming on. I
watched the tape of the Raiders game. He completed eighty
percent of his passes there, and he was red hot
against the Packers. Just when the Packers couldn't get a
pass rush, he torched the secondary. And he's going to
be a good one because he's in the right system.
That's the other thing, guys, He's in the right he
went Sean Payton wanted him in that draft more than
any of the other quarterbacks in that draft. And he's

(48:06):
in Believe me, bo Nix is in the right system.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
John Peyton loves Bonix and we've had them a couple
of times this year and he raves about this young quarterback.
He he that'll be you're right, right, He was that
was the guy that Sean Payton pegged in the draft.
I want bo Nicks and went and got bo Nix,
and he's delighted with him. He would trade him for
any of these young guys right now.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
Kevin, thank you so much for taking time out of
your busy schedule with us. I'm glad we caught you
on a bit of an off week for you with.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
It's it's perfect timing. Wayne Matt, thank you. This is
this has been a fun time. I appreciate it all
the best.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Well, Wayne, I have to mention it. I have to
give you a bright round of applause, if not a
standing ovation. The awful Announcing Fan poll of the top
local radio broadcast teams in the NFL. You and Rock
Larry mccarren number one, one of the teams in the NFL.
I think the most votes too, so we all know

(49:05):
about the passion that Packers fans have. Your number one,
tays should I have to settle for number four out
of sixty eight and call we thought pretty good about that,
but that pales in comparison. You are number one, sir.
That everybody knows what we've all known for years. So
congratulations to you and rock Well, thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
Matt. Obviously it was something came out of nowhere. I
didn't even know there was a poll being conducted, so
keep them out of nowhere. But you know what, it's
nice to be on that side of it rather than
the other side, you know. So, Edity Ray, thank you
very much. And you guys, congratulations to you sixty eight
college teams and you guys are number four. You know
what it means. I think this particular poll to me says, okay,

(49:48):
is radio important in your market? Okay, that's the first thing,
and it is. The Badgers and the Packers are very
important in these markets, and we're blessed to work in
markets where radio mean something. Secondly, it tells you what
your fans think of your broadcast, and so we're very
humbled by it. And and I know you and Taush

(50:09):
as well are very pleased and should be very pleased
about that recognition. And you know that's nice. It's better
that way than the other way.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
No, we you know, along, I've admired, admired your work
and so grateful that you're up here calling the Packers games.
And I agree with you wholeheartedly with the radio too,
because this is an area where you know, people are
doing things on Saturdays and Sundays. They're out and about.
They could be hunting, they could be doing whatever, but
they're still very passionate about their teams. And yeah, there's

(50:39):
still is a place. We all know it's a video world,
but there's still is a big place for radio in
the state of Wisconsin. So so it's awesome. Again, congrats
to you and Larry and John Coon as well, of
course I can't exclude him, but very very deserving of
the recognition that you have in the In the awful
people people don't know what all full Announcing is. It's

(51:01):
a social media site. It's not necessarily about awful announcing,
but that's just what they call it. And you guys
are the opposite of awful. You guys are awesome. So congrats, Well,
thank you very much. And you know, should be pointing
out all four NFC North radio crews were in the
top ten and then Joe you I mean Upper Midwest Football. Yeah,
radio meets something up there, and you know, maybe our

(51:24):
sales executives and I'm sure we'll be like that at
some point. I would imagine, I would hope it would
help them, and if it does, I'd be very pleased
if it did. Anyway, that'll do it for us. On
this episode of the Leira Vi La Pey podcast. By
the way, Matt and Dave McCann, best of the holiday
season to each and all of you and your families.

(51:45):
It'll be busy, but that's kind of the way holidays are,
with games wrapping in and out all around these holidays.
But it's such an honor and pleasure to work with
you Matt on this. I look forward to it every
twice a month when we do this, and David as
well with you and putting this thing together and making
it sound better than it is. See like yep, likewise

(52:05):
like quest to you and you and your family, Wayne,
and it's look forward to many more podcasts to come,
beginning in January.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
So let'll be fine, all right, guys. Thanks to our
guest Kevin Coogler CBS, or he should say, of Fox
and Westwood One Sports, our engineer Dave McCann and the
executive producer of the Lara Villa Pay podcast on iHeart
is Monica Whitcoff For Matt, This is Wayne. We'll see
you next time. That's the holidays to all of you.
We'll see you next time. The Lara Villa Pay podcast.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
The Laravian La Pay podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
Podcasts with hosts Way Larvy and Matt Lapey, with production
engineering by Dave McCann. The Laravian La Pey podcast is
presented by Potawatamy Casino Hotel. Your win is waiting. Listen
to other episodes available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.