January 13, 2025 • 54 mins
Welcome to the London Club Council! The FAN's Brett Blakemore and Robbie Rosenhaus are opposing fans in England's biggest rivalry. They talk with the Athletic's Jack Pitt-Brooke about Tottenham, and they preview the North London Derby!
The guys on Twitter: @jackpittbrooke @BrettKFAN @robbierosenhaus
The guys on Twitter: @jackpittbrooke @BrettKFAN @robbierosenhaus
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
We're at it again.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to another meeting of the London Club Council. Now
representing Tottenham Hotspur.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
In this corner we do have Brett Blakemore and repping
Arsenal is Robbie Rosenhaus. So boys, let the banter begin.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome into the London Club Council. I'm Brett Blakemore and
I represent Tottenham Hotspur. Over there is Robby Rosenhouse who
represents Arsenal and we have a special edition of the podcast.
Today we have the athletic Spurs beat writer Jack pitt
Brook talking all things Tottenham after that wild game in
Tanworth and the victory over Liverpool. Here it is Jack Well,
I want to start with this, Hey, thanks for coming on.
(00:46):
I have to talk about that game that just happened
in everyone's favorite town, Tamworth. I got in a really
heated argument with another buddy of mine who's a diehard
Spurs fan, and he was basically saying if they lost
that game, they should sack and immediately like that should
be he should be gone. And for whatever reason, maybe
(01:07):
it was because I was I was still on the
high of beating Liverpool and you know, we're one good
game away from going to Wembley. Maybe I just couldn't
be bothered by it at all, Like I really didn't care,
looked like we were in control the whole time. Didn't
really didn't bother me at all that it was happening.
What were your thoughts on that game and what side
of that argument do you fall on, where it was
(01:29):
a criminal offense, if they would have if God forbid
they would have lost, or who really cares?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I mean those games are so difficult to analyze,
aren't they, Because it's it's such a unique situation where
you're playing against a team which is so far beneath you,
but we has got, you know, so much extra special
motivation for that particular game, and it's a very you know,
it's been a pretty unfamiliar place to go. You know,
(01:56):
it's not like just a regular Premier League game. And
so if the ultimate lose lose scenario for the Premier
League team, like it's it's the only thing you can
do is just try and get through and hope that
nobody talks about it. So I, yeah, I have a
lot of sympathy for Tottenham, Like it would have been
completely humiliating if they'd lost, but also like they could
(02:17):
easily have lost. That they could, it wouldn't have been
that shocking really, I think if you particularly you watch
the game and how hard it was. So yeah, it's tough,
not really fun for anyone associated with Tottenham, but they
made it through in the end.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
So going from this cup competition to the other cup
competition and that's the match where they defeat Liverpool. And
I want to focus in on one specific player because
he's really caught my eye recently, and that's Lucas Bergfal.
Now not only is he putting in kind of stylistic
performances where it gets the goal, but he's also showing
(02:55):
a ruthlessness that I don't think that a lot of
Tottenham fans thought that he had, especially at that age
to get acclimated to the league. So my question was
going to be, does Bergvall or Gray impress you more
through halfway mark of the season or do you think
it's kind of Bergvall just kind of take I know
(03:17):
Grey has been put in the position where it's not
his normal position, but kind of Bergvall and Gray, just
a word on those two, especially Bergvall, who's really caught
my eye.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yes, I'd say, Gray impresses me more, although I think
Gray is phenomenon. Is a phenomenon, Like Gray is unbelievable.
You know this guy, you know he wants to be
a midfielder. He played it right back for Leeds last
year in the Championship. He's played the last i think
eight to nine games in a row center back, and
he's looked ridiculously good. Like he's not you know, he's
(03:48):
not a huge guy, Like maybe he will grow a bit.
He's on only eighteen, but his confidence on the ball,
his ability to bring the ball out from the back
is remarkable. So I think Gray is unreal. Bergval. Why
really like about berg Bat is how much we've seen
him improve over the course of the season. You know,
at the start of the season he looked technically good
but maybe not quite up to speed with the physical
(04:09):
pace of the English game. But I think in the
last month or so that's really improved. That Liverpool game
was a great example, Like he was running so much,
making interventions at both ends the pitch, you know, making
tackles and blocks, and then obviously popping up to score
the winning goals. So it's amazing seeing that kind of
physical output from him, because that wasn't always something that
(04:29):
we got at the start of the season.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Speaking of Bergvall, I have to ask the question when
it comes to that game, did Spurs did we get
lucky that he was on the pitch? For my money,
the first yellow shouldn't have been a foul, but he
got a yell for that. Probably could have got another
yellow for the second challenge, didn't and then he goes
to score the winning goal what five seconds later? So
did Spurs get lucky having him on the pitch?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
In my mind? Yeah, Like I think that both those
fous of yellow cars. I know he didn't make contact
with the first one, but he'd lund is quite reckless,
you know, Diaz has to jump out the way. The
second one is just an obvious yellow card. And I
know people have been quoting, you know, bits from the
rule book, like I actually don't care, Like I don't
care what's in the rules, Like football is more like
(05:14):
the rules of football are more than just what's written
down on a piece of paper. They are what people
understand through a lifetime of watching the game. And so frankly,
I think it's the I think they are both the
other cards, but that's just that's just my opinion. Lots
of people have different opinions, and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I think putting that aside and just looking at the
game as a whole, Liverpool put out basically besides Saba
slide their first choice team. I mean, I didn't see
anybody else on the pitch that that didn't belong. So
for Tottenham to get a result, and I think both
sides at the end of the match were kind of
(05:49):
just relieve Tottenham getting the victory before they go up
to Liverpool in a month's time when they could have
both first choice center backs back uh to to the
to the Premier League and and and kind of their
form there and and them trying to balance kind of
that competition with the other two when when it comes
(06:11):
to squad depth. I mean, do you see them now
kind of taking the league and putting it second tier
when it comes to importance or have we reached that
point yet. I know the Cup, I know the Europa
League is gonna be big for them, but I don't
see how twelve points back of even fifth place at
this point they're gonna come to even within a whisker
(06:35):
of Champions League. So do you see the Cup competitions
and and putting more, more more emphasis on those squads
rather than the Premier League.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, I I I think that the cup competitions will
be the priority in the second half of the season,
which is not not really a position that Tottenham I've
ever been in before, you know, Totenham coming, you know,
trying to get top four in the Premier League always
comes first. And yet this season I think it's gonna
be a bit different, and in part that's kind of
self preservation from pasta Coogloo like, I don't think, you know,
(07:06):
the league form is not good enough to allow him
to continue to be taught to manager next season, I think,
but they're still in three different cup competitions and if
they want any of them then he would be, you know,
an iconic immortal figure as cotlam manager. So I sense
that that is where the priority is going to have
(07:27):
to be, even if it means Tottenham will probably stay
in this very kind of unusually bad Premier League position.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, And just kind of curtailing off of that, I
wanted to ask just about your I'm I'm as big
of a ange bobo as you could possibly find. I
just I love everything about him but what are your
thoughts overall on the job that he's done to this
point and can we are you Are you as infatuated
with the second season? I always win something in my
(07:58):
second season? Topic is some of the the media members
are do you think that was just him just stating
a matter of fact, but overall your thoughts on edge
to this point in his job.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
That's a good question. Yeah, I mean he's really I
find him very interesting. I find his I think his
approach is fascinating. I think his football is fascinating. I
think he really stands out amongst Premier League managers for
his bravery. I think like his his willingness to play
(08:28):
a style of football which can get exposed so easily
and which can you know, goes very wrong if it's
not executed perfectly. You know, lots of Premier League managers
would always rather have a more like defensive, low variance
approach in the hope that they could kind of steadily
improve the team. So I find his approach fascinating in
(08:53):
terms of like how I assess how well he's doing well.
You know, they're obviously doing pretty badly in the Premier
League this year, and I think that's kind of how
how managers get assessed. I hope for his sake that
he manages to win one of those Cup competitions because
that will completely change what people view about him. And
I know from his point of view, it's been difficult.
You know, the squad is small, he doesn't have a
(09:15):
lot of good players. He has lots of you know,
the age profile of the squad is totally transformed under him.
He doesn't have you know, not only does he not
have Harry Kane, but he's got a kind of declining
son hung men, I'm afraid to say. So, he doesn't
have the same firepower that other Spurs managers have had,
and he's got a really difficult situation to manage. But
it's not going great, although maybe it will go better
(09:37):
at the end of the season. So like, there's only
the only way I think you can assess and is
you know, with a degree of equivocation and contexts and nuance,
because it doesn't fit into I think a kind of
you know, an easy like yes or no evaluation.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
So we have Jack Pittbrooke here, the Spurs writer for
the Athletic Jack Brett is a Spurs fan. I am
an Arsenal fan. I was lucky enough to go to
London for the first time. Brett had been over a
couple of times before, saw them win at the New
Stadium and then also saw them win at Brighton couple.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Harry Kane, Oh boy, what a game football.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
But I ended up getting to see Arsenal against Southampton
this year. Now they go down one nil and they
come back and they score three goals. To me, Southampton
are the only squad in the Premier League that are
a complete walkover. So this goes back to Andre with
a little bit of an Arteta twist here, do you
(10:37):
give the managers a little bit of kind of the
benefit of this Premier League season? And again PEP two
because City have fallen off and you see teams like
Forrest and Bourne Myth in the top six or seven.
So the Premier League seems ip switch taking points off
of Tottenham to Chelsea. So the Premier League seems a
(11:00):
lot more balance. So does that give ang and Arteta
and managers like that and PEP a little bit more
of an excuse that well, you know, results are tougher
to come by and there's not a lot of walkover
teams that there have been in previous seasons.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think the
I think the overall level of the smaller Premier League
teams has improved a lot, Like in the last five years.
You know, they've always had you know, they've got a
lot of money, which means that they can go out
and buy really good players. And because the Premier League
is so attractive to managers, a lot of them have
(11:34):
really good managers, you know, like Marco Silva is a
great manager, Ariola is a great manager. Clearly, like there's
some brilliant managers working with, you know, teams from outside
the big six, so that that raises the overall level,
I think. And I'm on the other hand, on the
other end of the scale. I think things like PSR
means that the biggest teams can't just spend like two three,
(11:56):
four hundred million pounds every summer just so they can
affect we blow the letter teams away. So I do
think that the kind of massive financial stratification that we've
seen in the Premier League in the last sort of
ten twenty years has maybe slowed down a little bit
and recently, and that means that it's a bit more
even why don't know is will we go back to
(12:21):
the era which of like the top two teams routinely
getting between ninety five and one hundred points in the
Premier League, because that's what we saw under Guardiola and
klop and you know it's not gonna happen this year.
I don't think, although Liverpool are looking pretty good at
the moment, but I wonder whether anyone will get up
to those points totals again or if that was just
a kind of something that happened in the you know,
(12:43):
sort of like twenty eighteen to twenty twenty three era.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Two questions and one for you here, I would say,
how much what percent do you think blame can be
put on the injuries for Spurs this year? And just
the lack of depth where you know you're you're playing
Archie Gray as we talked about as a center back,
even though that's not one of his positions, he's eighteen
years old. What percent of the blame can you put
(13:08):
on the injuries? What's realistic? And then my second one,
I wanted to ask about Malwane as well, because I
just saw from an aggregator, your favorite people, aggregators, they're
never wrong that they that spurs of mid contact with
PSG again for Mlwane, So I wanted to get kind
of your thoughts on that as well.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, so in terms of the injuries, Like, I mean,
it's a really big factor as to why why spurs
of struggle, Like they're a completely different team with Ramera
and Van der Venn. They were a different team with
the career and goal until they signed Kinski, Like they
need all those guys I think at one hundred percent
(13:46):
to play their football. That said, the injuries, Like, the
injuries are not random, are they, Like we know that
the injuries are a feature of Prosta Coogli's manage style.
They had a lot of these problems last year. I
think they kind of hoped that they would just get
through that last year. But and you know, you know,
(14:08):
lots of the guys who got into this year were
here last year as well. You know, not least the
defense had hamstring problems again, the Charles and hamstring problems again.
Romero not actually hamstring problem, but he had the foot injury,
then the quad injury as soon as he came back.
So you know, these things have not happened. Happened in
the vacuum. But the more they do happen, the more
(14:29):
that they exacerbate other problems, like the thinness of the squad.
So I kind of feel like it's a there's a
combination of issues here, namely the injury, like the busy
fixture list, tottenham thin squad, the style of play, all
of which lead to the injury crisis, and that kind
of exacerbates those problems. So it's hard to just look
(14:51):
at the injuries in isolation, like the injuries are both
the cause of and a symptom of Spurs's other problems.
But you know, it's really killed them, Like it's really
killed their ability to play their football this season. And
in terms of Colin Mowany, like I actually don't have
like an sort of fully up to date update beyond
(15:11):
the fact that clearly like he's someone that Tottenham are
interested in. I think that getting a sort of high
quality loan player does make sense for this window. You know,
he's he's obviously got a great, you know, a pretty
good background. He's played really well with the French national
team in the past, so I think it would make
sense easier to find somebody on loan this window rather
(15:34):
than you know, rather than trying to buy somebody permanent
late this time of year.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Other than Kolesovski, who I don't think any of the
three of us would argue is their player of the season.
So far, two players for me that have kind of
rose from the Ashes for different reasons. One is Brett's
favorite player, Brandon Johnson, and the other would be Jed Spence.
Now we saw them put in a decent shift on
(16:01):
the weekend in the in the in the Liverpool match,
it seems like Spence is being included more. It seemed
like his Tottenham career was basically over at one point,
and Brendan Johnson looked like it was headed that way too,
deleting his social media, not really celebrating when he scores.
He's got double digit goals this calendar year, and he
(16:22):
does a lot off the ball that analytics would say,
are you know he needs to beat his man one
on one a little more? But give us a word
or two on Johnson and Spence and how they've kind
of come good this year for a Spurs squad that
has desperately needed the depth that they have provided.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, So Spence is so interesting because Tottenham signed him
in summer twenty twenty two and then he didn't start
a game for Tottenham until December twenty twenty four. So
that's two and a half years of not starting a
game for the club. And it's not like he was,
you know, sixteen when they signed to either. You know,
when they signed him, he'd just come off the back
(17:02):
of a really good season for Nottingam Forrest and the Championship.
But then when you watch him play, you think, this
guy's a natural, Like he's so he's so naturally gifted,
like he's so athletic, he's so calm with the ball
at his feet, he's technically good and he looks like
somebody he should be playing, you know, fifty sixty games
a season as well as for the England national team
(17:25):
because you know, football comes so easily to him. So, yeah,
he's had a better to say, he's had a difficult job,
I think convincing managers not of his ability, but of
his application. You know, it's no, it's no. It's no
secret that he went on loan to Leeds United and
they didn't think he was behaving very well and they
send him back to Tottenham. And I think he's always
(17:48):
kind of struggled a little bit. I think to really
kind of hit this hit the right standards of like
professionalism and maturity. But I hope that he's turned a
corner in that respect. You know, positive spoke very positively
about his his work, great, his attitude to training. So
I'm looking forward to watching him play more.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
It is it a little like Ori a in that
in that aspect before he gets to Brendan.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Johnson maybe, although I guess on Spencer side, like he's
just younger like he's he doesn't like when when they
signed Oria, they signed Oria from Paris and Man and
he'd been like an established player in the French league
for a long time, whereas Spence's Spencer is still young,
he's not not actually played that much football. He's been
around for a while, but because of it's slightly unusual
(18:34):
career path, he's not played a lot of football, and
maybe he's you know, people people mature at different rates,
like he's. When he was a kid at Fulham, like
they always said he was just a little bit less
mature than his peers, and maybe he's taking him a
little bit longer to kind of grow up. But you
know that happens quite a lot in sports and if
he has, if he has grown up now, then it's
going to be a brilliant player. In terms of Johnson, Well,
(18:58):
Johnson's really interesting, isn't he Because his output's being fantastic
this year, Like he's he's really I think he's he's
so good at kind of understanding what Pasta Koglu wants
from his wingers in terms of, you know, stay high
and wide, stretch the opposit opposition defense. Then when the
balls on the other side, you kind of make that
that runs the far post and score and score the tap.
(19:19):
And he's really good at that. But I guess I
was kind of hoping that if he did that well
and his confidence would get better, then you might see
him kind of a bit better in one v one
situations and creating more chances for Spurs. Do you don't
really see that? Like often with Johnson you won't see
You'll barely see him in the game at all, and
then I'll score a goal and that's great. Like he's
(19:40):
very good at doing that, But I kind of feel
like Tottenham needs a little bit more from him. I
think in the final third.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
The one thing I do love this the way that
he can get to the back post. I think he
does it better than anyone on Spurs right now, but
I do agree the one on ones and other things
like that on the.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Ball could be better.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
We mentioned it briefly, but but Kinski signing him, how
do you think the goalkeeper position goes forward for Spurs?
Because everything that I'm hearing is, oh, this is going
to be a real competition now He's just not here
to be a backup. What are your thoughts on that
and him?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think this is going to be one of the
most interesting stories in twenty twenty five for Tottenham. I
don't think Kinski's come to be number two. But also
Vi Carrio has done has been pretty good really over
the year and a half that he's had at Tottenham.
I thought he started this season really well. I mean, yeah,
he's not perfect. He's got a bit of a weakness
(20:35):
on on set pieces, clearly, but then you know, lots
lots of players have got weaknesses in one form and another.
Kinsky's only played two games of Tottenham, so no one
it would be it would be a bit quick to
say that he's a perfect goalkeeper, but it's going to
be a really really like not many teams are in
this position where they have two goalkeepers with like a
(20:57):
rough leakqual claim to be number one. Like generally at
most big teams you have a one, you have a one,
and then you have like a good number two like
Edison and Ortaga for example, Alison and kellaher So and
generally if you have two GOALKI was competing, the guy
who loses the competition leaves the club, you know, like
David Ryer and Aaron ramstell arsenal. So, yeah, it's gonna
(21:18):
be really interesting. I don't know how it's going to go,
but I I mean, I mean, I guess I wouldn't
expect if Vicario becomes number one, I wouldn't expect Kinsky
to leave because Kinsky's just got there. But I think
this is going to be a really interesting talking point
this year.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Well, congratulations, we have made it with Jack Pittbrook, the
Spurs writer for The Athletic or about twenty three twenty
four minutes without mentioning Daniel Levey's name. So I just
want to give everybody a round of applot for doing that. Yeah,
because he clearly is a lightning rod for Spurs fans,
and while Brett and I are detached from it physically.
(22:03):
You know, we get what we get on social media,
we get what we get from the journals, and we
get very very little when Daniel Levy speaks, if when
he ever does so from an overall kind of perspective
and not from a fan perspective, just from from kind
(22:24):
of a journalistic is it is it frustrating not to
hear from him more? And to kind of because Arsenal
have the same problem. They don't hear from Stan Croncky
a lot either. So when when things go wrong and
things are kind of going a little amiss, now, so
does it frustrate you that you don't hear more from
the higher ups at the club? And do you think
(22:45):
that obviously he's a bigger part of the problems that
they've had the fact that they haven't won a trophy
and solo.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I certainly, I certainly do think that it would be
good to hear more from him. It's one of the
weird things about Premier League football is that the top
the only Tottenham employee who is accountable to the media
for the strategy of the club is Pasta Cooglu. You know,
Postocoglu does a press conference like well basically twice a
week of Spurs in Europe where he'll get asked about,
(23:15):
you know, why is topon doing this, why is something
doing that? But he didn't decide, Like he doesn't decide
club strategy. He just coaches the first team and the
people who do decide the club strategy. Really, I mean really,
it's just it's just Daniel Levy and people close to
Daniel Levy. You might also talk about you know, you
know hand Langa, the technical director, Scott Man and the
(23:35):
chief football officer. But like Daniel Levy does no media.
Really he will do, you know, he does like his
chairman's message, like at the when the accounts come out
at the end of every season, and then maybe at
the start of the season he'll kind of write a
piece on the web which goes on the website. Yah,
(23:56):
hand Langer at the end of the transfer window will
do an interview with the club website. But yeah, I mean,
if I was, I think Spurs fans want to hear
what the strategy is at the club and they want
to hear from Leaving and Langer and mun and these guys,
and it's not really I don't think it's fair that pasta.
Cooglu is the guy who has to come out and say, oh,
(24:17):
this is we could try and do X we're trying
to do. Why you know this is not a problem
you neiqu Tottenhaim. Every Premier League club is like this,
and I think it sucks at every single club, not
just as Spurs. But yeah, I certainly think they should
do more.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
They always do the Q and A like fan event,
and that's like the one time you see him in person.
It's like a fan except for when they cut. When
Spurs are losing every time to Levy in the crowd
I want to do, which is super annoying. I want
to end with kind of a less serious question because
I've been meaning to, have been thinking about this so
(24:51):
so I've been over twice, Robbie's been over once, and
something that I just can't I don't understand why it is.
But when you're over here, like we live in Minnesota
and the biggest team here is the Minnesota Vikings, the
NFL team, and I could go to the supermarket and
literally count a thousand different people wearing Vikings merchandise just
(25:13):
casually around town right when I go over there. I
mean even at the games, there's just nobody. They'll wear
a black jacket and then that's it. And I think
it's just a cultural difference, But I guess I just don't.
I mean, it's just such ingrained in our American culture.
Just wear the team stuff. I'm wearing Spur stuff right now.
I'm just at work, you know. So why do you
(25:34):
think that is from your perspective? Is it looked down upon?
Like you're you're taking it too seriously if you're wearing
Why do you think that cultural difference is a thing.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
It's a really, really, really good question, and you're right,
that is a cultural difference. People think it's kind of yeah,
like people generally would make jokes about somebody who wears
too much club stuff, particularly at a game, like it's
(26:04):
okay if you're a child, but to see, like, you know,
somebody our age wearing all club stuff, and this is
true of every club as well, like it would you
would get laughed at. I don't really know why. I
don't really know why, because it's not like I'm sure
(26:25):
fans would like to say, Oh, it's because you know,
English football is not as commercialized as American sports. But
of course, like Englishmen was incredibly commercialized, like football is
commercialized to a ludicrous degree, like everything is for sale,
and everything has a huge price, very high price, and
lots of people make tons of money out of it.
So but I think it's maybe just a kind of
(26:47):
cultural thing in the you know that the fans feel
like the fans want to feel maybe a little bit,
maybe a little bit independent from the kind of you know,
the corporate entity. I'm sure it annoys. I'm sure it
annoys people who owned the club, Like if you're if
you're like if you're Daniel Levy or anyone who owns
and runs a Premier League club, you would much rather
(27:09):
fans not just pay one hundred pounds of the match ticket,
but before the game spend like two hundred pounds in
the club shop too. And I know if you go
to a club, if you go to a club shop,
and this is true of all Premier League clubs before
a game, I reckon most people in there will be
you know, children'll be tons of children and getting the
replica shirt with their favorite player's name on the back.
(27:31):
And then maybe like new fans, out of town fans,
you know, not not only American fans, like there's tons
of fans from you if you go to Totten game,
there's tons of fans from career obviously to watch some
So you know, the Premier League global appeal is really
important to the Premier League. But like English, like local
English fans would just think it was a bit corny
(27:52):
to like have the cap and the scarf and the
jacket and the gloves and everything.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, like if you go to a Vikings game here,
like there wouldn't be a single person not wearing purple
in the whole building. Like that's just kind of I
think the line for us is like if you're an
adult and you have like a Vikings jersey that has
your own name and number, people be like, come on, like,
what are you a kid? But if you wore like
the Quarterbacks jersey, ever, no one would deny whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So it's just something culturally different that I noticed that
I was.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I was a little Really it's a really really good topic.
It's a really good question, and I think it's for whatever,
for combination reasons. I just the English. There's something about
English football fans which is a bit they're just not
comfortable doing that for whatever reason, or though maybe that
maybe that would change in time. I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Oh one one more for me, Jack, And I'd be
remiss if I didn't ask about the upcoming fixture coming
up two days from today, and that is the Arsenal
Tottenham North London Darby taking place at the Emirates. It's
been a few few years since Tottenham have beaten Arsenal.
I believe it was. Was it three? Three seasons ago?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It was?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It was fantastic game three.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Now I would be lying if I said I wasn't
worried because their forum has dipped as you've seen, and Tottenham,
as we know, it's a it's a roller coaster. We
don't know what they're going to get. So wouldn't it
be the most fursy thing during the season of ups
and downs, when you're losing to Ipswich, you go to
the Emirates and you pick up three points. That's what
(29:34):
I'm concerned about. How do you see things playing out
Wednesday night in North London?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Well, the only I mean the only teams that the
only team that totam can be are other good teams,
you know, they like their last sixth wins were against
the City City Liverpool, Man United and somebody else as Villa.
So I think they've got as good a chance of
winning this as they do of any other game, which
is that's really because Arsenal really good and Tottenham's record
(30:03):
against Arsenal is pretty bad. Their record at the Emirates
is terrible. I'm really really awful. Well, I don't know
like I think that I think Tottenham. I think Tottenham
recently they've kind of stumbled upon a slightly like modified style,
which I think might work. They're less aggressive, I think
than they used to be. I don't think Arsenal playing
(30:23):
very well at the moment. I think Arsenal look a
bit a bit under pressure, Like I feel like their
normal football is not flowing. They've struggled a lot with
injuries this season. So I think that I think that
Tottenham's chance in this game is actually better than you
would think if you look at their position in the
league table. And I'm not saying they're going to win,
but I think there's like I wouldn't be super surprised
(30:45):
they did well.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
I feel like Arsenal at a turning point to where
it's gone toxic after the United game with some of
the fan interactions that I've seen. If they lose the
Spurs at home, I mean it.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Could go yeah, yeah, it could be bad.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
So anyways, Jack, thank you so much for joining us.
We really appreciate you covering out some time for us
and talking.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Spurs with us. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Join it.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
There.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
It is Jack pitt Brook with us from the Athletic
covering all things Spurs, and I think we've done a
solid half hour on Tottenham on my club, so we
can finally get around to your club. Robbie what he say,
things are in turmoil. You lose a game against ten
Man United in the FA Cup. Out of that AFTV
calling for the head of Arteta saying that you shouldn't
(31:30):
cheer for players when you sign them anymore. Lots of
things going wrong in that Arsenal camp. And as we
mentioned with Jack, if you lose the Spurs, things could
go from toxic to I guess really toxic.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
I just I think at this point people need to
sit down, put their feet up, take a nice glass
of scotch, take a cigar, and take a big sleeping
pill and relax. Just like Aaron Rodgers quarterback here in
the United States for the Green Bay Packers and the
(32:04):
New York Jets has said in the past.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
R e Las.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Everybody, everybody needs to relax. They're out of the FA Cup.
The Carabell Cup is not their priority.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
You've got to be kidding me.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
The disappointing results this week, while short term, are going
to fire up a portion of the fan base. For
me an it just goes back to the fact that
they have called out for a striker for years and
now it's just bubbling up to the surface, especially with
Havertz missing the penalty. I have said that he is
(32:46):
good enough upfront. Is clear that I am turning out
to be wrong because after Jay Sus goes down with
an injury, now they're looking at one airy with an
injury and a lot of problems up front, and that
is where it gets boring. And this is not an
Arsenal side that has depth up front. They got rid
(33:10):
of Ketia in the off season, they got rid of
Ballagoon in the off season. So they're going to be
fishing for a striker I think in January, and if
they don't get one, I think they're gonna wind up
trophy list this year. This is the first time that
I've said that I have not seen enough here. Even
(33:31):
with where they sit in both tables that matter, they
sit where they need to be in the Champions League table,
in the automatic places where they'll get that they won't
have to play a playoff. All they need to do
is get a couple more wins in these last three matches,
and two of the last three are at home, the
other ones in Spain, so not a long trip.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
And then it.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Comes down to whether or not in the Premier League,
you think that they're a title contender right now with
half the seat reason to go, I still think they are.
If you think Forest are, then you think Arsenal are.
And people thought Chelsea were and they go and lose
to Ipswich and Nowers I think, I think people have
(34:13):
well Top four contenders definitely, I mean they're I mean
right now they're they're four to one to make the
top four. But I mean, why not Lester did it
six seven, eight years eight years ago? I mean, why
can't Forrest do it now? The way they keep turning
out results. If you listen back to our interview with
Jack Pittbrook, I talked about how how even the league
(34:34):
is the one thing I will say though about Forrest
before I get back to Arsenal is that they haven't
had really their dip in form yet. Arsenal's have their
dip in form. Chelsea have had a couple of dips
in form now they're in in one right now, Arsenal
or in one right now. So before we get to
the Arsenal Tottenham match, back to just the over Arsenal picture,
(34:57):
which is what you asked me about, and I everybody
needs to relax, everybody needs to chill. But to gloss
over the problems would be would be just lying to
myself and to the rest of the Arsenal fan base,
because there definitely are problems there and they're not even
(35:19):
playing exciting football right now, so it's gone a bit stale,
and I think that's where we are. So while while
it's gone stale, I know I'm talking probably out of
both sides of my mouth here that while people need
to relax, people need to relax, there are problems. I
don't think the problems are enough where it'll torpedo the
club to where they won't wind up going far in
(35:41):
either of the competitions that matter the most this season.
If that is a long way to get to where
I want it to be.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah, it was like you were talking in stereo. I
heard you out of my right headphone and then a
little bit later I heard you out of my left headphone,
just making both sides of the argument.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Well, well that's why I even I acknowledged it, though,
I mean I acknowledge that that you know. But again
you can acknowledge that Will Spurs are playing good football.
Sometimes sometimes they don't play good football.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Sometimes maybe good sometimes maybe yes, yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Blank, sometimes maybe put the E symbol on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I wanted to ask you also because a big talking
point with Spurs is the injuries right now, and I
think the amount, sheer amount of injuries to first team
players is worth recognizing. I don't think your list is
as long, but it could be as star studded. How
much are you missing Sokka in the inn the final third?
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Well, this is where I'm going to put you in
a box because for a few years now you have
told me how overrated he is, how one footed he is,
how he he you're you're you're putting him basically on
a pedestal. Well, Exhibit A B and c because since
he's gone out, they have not turned out results. They
have looked boring down the right side. They've now put
(36:57):
players who are on the on the left on the
right with Martinelli. It's not working party and right back
not working. Uh. Declan took the game off in the
FA Cup. He's gonna come back and play against Tottenham.
He's probably their second most important player. Listen. The bottom
line is the last two seasons they probably should have
(37:17):
won the league, and this year they're not playing well
in a league that's there to be had and they're
probably not going to win it now. While I just
said in my last rant there that they're still in
the title race, if you put a gun to my head,
do I think they're gonna win it? No, of course
I can't sit here and say that, but they're still
in the race. Back to soccer, he is their most
important player. He is. If there was an MVP award
(37:40):
like they give out here in the States in our
professional leagues, he would be in the mix for MVP. Now.
Mossala would probably run away with it this year because
he has the most goals and is the best player
in the league. Before he departs for wherever he's going to.
But soccer, double digit goals, double digit assists. I saw
him score a goal have two assists when I went
(38:01):
to that game that I previously mentioned with Jack, the
three to one win over Southampton. I saw it live
with my own two eyes. I see it live every week.
Everything goes down the right channel, for better or worse.
He is a big, big part of what they do. Okay,
last season when they missed Saliba down the stretch, he
is the foremost important player. Okay, things fell apart at
(38:22):
the back. They started leaking goals and they threw away
the title. He was a very important part of what
they do. Odo guards in there, and when he left,
everybody was saying, oh, the created chances and things like that. So,
but every club has injuries, which is my overall point here.
If we go to Spurs, you've been missing your top
two center backs. We talked about it, Jack, They're a
(38:43):
definite different team with the Vicario and Van Deven and
Romero back there. Now we can get into your keeper
thing on another episode and we'll see how that plays out,
because I think right now it's just speculation at this point.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Neither one good, but it's two games that I said.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
There was no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
He was.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
He was very good with with with with distribution, made
a couple of good stops on Darwin Juniez in that game.
I thought he was he was up to the task.
But I just think that, uh, I think, I think
that people need to realize how important soccer is to
the team. And now I think you're starting to realize
that without him, they're not creating a lot from open
(39:26):
play and and all this set pCFC stuff has gone
up and smoke when when it's dried up the last
couple of games and they're not getting it from those corners.
He hey, SOCCA was one of the guys that took
those corners along with Declan Rice. So yes, there is
a bit of trouble, but everybody just needs to relax.
We're only halfway through the season. They're only out of
one cup competition, and and they can go up to
(39:48):
New Council and get a goal and then it's game on.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
How do you how do you feel about stealing bits?
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Stealing bits?
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, because I'm gonna dust this bit off because you're
trying to put me in a box and I don't
even think I don't even think they use this bit anymore,
but I'm going to do it because I like it.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
Lady, then gentlemen, stop right up and see Harry Nani
Radio Dan the common man Cool. What Jessie escapes be
boxed in by listeners, celebrities or even tenants.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Or even Robbie Rosenhaus.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Amazement.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
All right, I'm going to escape this box here that
that you've put me in. I don't think that Sokka
being out is making you know, Odegard miss a pen,
you know, our Haverts miss a sitter, a three footer,
you know, or Havert's missing a pen. I don't think
that it, and you know, affects defensively giving up those goals, which,
(40:46):
by the way, the Bruno goal was an unbelievable finish.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I'm not sure anyone's stopping that.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
I just think that it's it's all little the dip
in form with those guys who were really good, like
Hartz was scoring goals for fun at one point, and
now all of a sudden, Sokka is not on the
right and now he's missing sitters, and and Oude guard
has been Rice has not been as good, and just
everyone's dip and form. I felt like since Soaka is.
(41:11):
I don't know if it's a confidence thing, but I
don't think that Sokker being one footed or not not
completely one footed, but just just a little touch overrated
doesn't mean that Harts has free reign to just miss
sitters because I think that, you know, the open play
has been there.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
But I don't know.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
Listen, there's some guys that are at a form, there's
no doubt about it. Have Earth's completely out of form
right now. This Martinelli out a form, no doubt about it. Okay,
So those are two guys that I don't know what
has happened to Martinelli. Two years ago, he was viewed
as an up and coming guy that was going to
be a huge, huge part of what Artetet was trying
(41:51):
to build there. I mean, he was in one of
the chants. I'm not going to do the chant now,
but you.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Know, apparently you can't because you're a customer. Apparently that's
what I.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
Told, you know, Gabby in the back, I mean Gabby
in attack Arsenal along the way to Champions League. Well
they're there, and yeah, they're going to hopefully perform well
in a couple of weeks time. But those are just
two examples of players who have gone out of form.
And with that, those are two guys that you're getting
goals from and right now they're not providing them.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Yes, amazing game, all right, So I got out of that.
I just like that they need to bring that bit
back by the way, because that's a great that's a
great bit anything else you want to touch on with
your arsenal squad going into this North London Derby, we
can get this out of the way before we kind
of rapid fire through the rest of the Big Six. Personally,
(42:46):
for me with this North London Derby, my confidence is
still at an all time low. It's a curse building.
It's we still the fan has learned, don't have our
starting two center backs.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
We still don't have vocariolthough I do like Kinski, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
My confidence level is not very high. My only confidence
comes from the fact that you guys are not in
very good form right now.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
That's literally it.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Because they struggle to break the low block of Tamworth
this week. So yeah, they did just beat the best
team in the world and I'm still flying on that.
But I'm my expectations are very low for Spurs obviously.
Jack Pickbrook earlier says, I might there might be some
cause for hope, but my dabba is down for this
and I'm not expecting anything. I'll be pleasantly surprised if
(43:28):
we get a point from this.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Well, the way Arsenal have been playing, I think there's
every opportunity to hit them on the counter. I mean,
there's not a lot going forward when it comes to Arsenal,
and if it's not through oder guards, there's not a
lot creatively in the midfield. I mean, Marino is an
okay player. Georginho is not quick and not exactly you know,
a creative midfielder. He sits more in a deeper role,
(43:54):
just like Deck Glynn does. And the way they've been
playing lately, they they failed to break down that low block.
They've been passing back and forth and back and forth.
And if it's not through oder guard with perhaps balls
over the top or through balls, I mean you see
a few of them again, but there's not a ton
of build up like there was the last two seasons.
(44:15):
There was so much good play and I understand that
Saka and Ben White were a big part of that.
Down the right flank the two of them in flowing
and you realize why they were England internationals. But I mean,
you can't deny the fact that you know they're having
(44:37):
issues creating a lot of chances and Tottenham have struggled
with teams that create a ton of chances and right
now Arsenal aren't doing that. I mean, if you look
at their expected goals from open play the last couple
of matches, it hasn't been good. We go back to
just about a month ago when they were firing in
five against Portuguese sides and s tam and things like that,
(45:01):
and all those goals right now have dried up. So,
as the old adage goes, doesn't matter what sport it is,
it's not about who you play sometimes, it's about when
you play them. And right now I think tottenhamber catching
Arsenal at the right time. It's a midweek game, it's
(45:23):
a night game. So I just think that you can
get a draw out of this. Now. I'm not gonna
go I mean, if who would have thought that, by
the way they're gonna they're gonna start with the torch, well,
who would have thought, well, Brett.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Who would have thought that we would try to convince
each other that the other team would win or do
well you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (45:41):
Well here, well yeah, and it goes back to you know,
I can go back to two months ago when or
a month ago, six weeks ago, whenever the draw was
when uh yourself, a friend of ours, Jesse and I
were sitting there watching the f A Cup draw and
we all all rolled our eyes when Tottenham drew Tamworth
(46:04):
but Arsenal drew Man, You and all this like, oh
they'll they'll get by United, like you know, because we're
really yeah at home, right. And Mark Goldbridge, who we
all enjoy enjoy his his content entertaining to Yeah, he's
he's the founder and the owner of the United stand,
I mean his his United reactions are great and and
(46:27):
you know he was going crazy as to as to
how they can draw Arsenal away and just kind of
dismissing it as a loss before they even took the pitch. Well,
as we know, Arsenal played against ten men for the
better part of an hour and were unable to find
a goal. And they deserved everything they got in penalties.
(46:48):
And that's why I wasn't even disappointed. I was more
angry at the fact that they could not find a
goal and they got everything that they deserved.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Yeah, I think for me it's a very low risk,
high reward game. If we lose, Yeah, it is what
it is. Arsenal is a good squad. It's at the Emirates.
If we win, it's the greatest thing ever. I do
want to get to a couple of things as well.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
It's the greatest thing ever. You know. One thing I've
learned about you, Brett, in our three years of of
of knowing each other that there's not a lot more
that you enjoy than going into your rivals, well, just
just playing your rivals in general. Because I feel like
(47:34):
you've told me in the past that Arsenal home is
like the game that the match that you really want
to win the most of of n match at right
at Tottenham Hotsper Stadium. Right, but just but just when
when it comes to rivals, I feel like it just, uh.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
There's special about it.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
Who's whose league was it that had the slogan? It
just means more.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
That would be the sc Yeah, yeah, there we go.
Speaker 4 (48:01):
It just means more to Brett Blake Moore, Winns Spurs
play Arsenal and it means more to me too. Listen.
I can go back and and think of some some
some very memorable moments. I mean when we first met
a few years ago, I mean Caine and and those
two goals, two goals and what under like a minute
(48:22):
or two minutes or whatever, back to back boom boom,
and you know, and they end up nipping, nipping the
Champions League. But I can go back to games at
the Emirates when.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
Off for yeah, open ice, body checking sonny yah yeah,
not good.
Speaker 4 (48:39):
Yeah, but then there were two leads that Tottenham threw
away at the Emirates, I mean five two wins, so
you know they've it's been a sordid history for Tottenham
at the Emirates. But I think it's like I said,
if there's any time that you want to play Arsenal, it's.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Now a couple of things I want to get to
before we wrap things up here. To managers out to
managers in Sean dish out at Everton they bring in
David Moyes, the old west Ham manager. And speaking of
west Ham, they bring in Graham Potter of all people,
So what what do you think of those two hirings
and Firings.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
Uh well, well, Grandpotter was seen entering the stadium on
Saturday with the Goblet of Fire. I don't know if
you saw that, did you did you?
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Did you end up see the goblet of Fire? Did
you put your name in the goblet of Fire? You
don't even get that reference?
Speaker 4 (49:31):
No, I don't. But I like both Hires. I like
both Hires. I think both are are stabilizing caretaker managers
for now. I think Potter the job is too big
for him. A Chelsea Moys has a history at Everton,
and I can't see them, you know, lasting for a
(49:51):
long long time, even Potter at west Ham. I mean,
I just I think he'll he'll wear around a welcome
soon enough. But he's he did a great job at
Brighton and and.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Yeah, people forget about how good he was.
Speaker 4 (50:02):
I think, just to stabilize there and to realize that
they need to make sure that they get at least
stay somewhat touching distance from the relegation zone. But I
think the Moys higher was what was pragmatic. I thought
it was. It was definitely something that had been in
the works for a while. Ditch hadn't been churning out
(50:24):
wins a lot of draws, including one at the Emirates
which annoyed me to no end. But they didn't play
attractive football. They weren't scoring goals. They were relying on Pickford,
England's number one, to bail them out of games. And
we'll see if Moys can keep them up in the league.
That's the that's their biggest priority. They're moving into a
multi multi, multi million dollar, billion dollar stadium at Bramley
(50:49):
Moore Doc just in Liverpool. There and just a gorgeous,
state of the art new ground for Everton and they
can't go in there and play Queen's Ark Rangers and reading.
I mean, they have to keep their Premier League status
and I think that's what Moys was brought in to do.
He won a Conference League trophy at west Ham, he
(51:10):
was at Everton and had success there and I think
he'll be able to keep them up in fourteenth or fifteenth.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
I for one, will not. I love Sean Diysch as
a person. I did not like playing against him this
first because he always just had the answer for our
attacking football. Is not fun to play against him, and
I think Grand Potter will do a decently good job
as well. I think, yeah, maybe the Chelsea bit there
was just a lot going on behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
We don't know.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
Was a job too big for him, but I think
I think he'll do a good job. I think it's
what have you done for me lately situation where lately
at Chelsea was not good, but if you look at Brighton,
he took them to new heights. So the last thing
I want to wrap up with there are several six
pointer games. I wanted to get your thoughts on which
(51:57):
one you are looking forward to the most tech Technically,
this is a six point game kind of fourth place
Chelsea against seventh place Bornemouth. Who would have thought that
would be a six point game? And then obviously this
is a six pointer Liverpool going to Nottingham Forest. That
is two o'clock tomorrow. I will be watching that probably
(52:19):
Belta Bell.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
Yeah, so I think you hit the nail on the
head right there with that second match. I think considering
the fact you kind of questioned my take as to
whether or not Forrest are in a title race, well,
you know what, by the time you're listening to this podcast,
you may know if they hurt a title race or not,
(52:42):
because it's going to go a long way into determining
whether or not they have the staying power if they
can grind out a result tomorrow or even a win
against Liverpool at home and do the double over them.
This year. Forrest have played some outstanding football and they're
a club that in the seventies were draped in some
(53:02):
in some European glory, have some trophies in their cabinet.
So this is a team that's kind of been in slumber,
just like Leeds were for a long time and they
popped up in the Premier League. It looks like they're
gonna pop up in the Premier League next year and
be promoted, but not in a forest or not some
small club like Tamworth. I mean, they're a club rich
with hist Now they may be in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
And they'll let you know about it too.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
Yeah yeah, in the Midlands. But I just think that
they're they're here to stay. They have some very very
good players and I don't think it's a fluke. I've
seen enough of them where they're beating the big sides,
and you know all about beating big sides, Brett with
your club, and I think I see a little bit
(53:44):
of mercurialism. If that's a word, I'd have to google
it after Probably it may be I couldn't spell it
to their club and also to yours as well, So
I think that's the match I have my eye on
when it comes to the six pointers coming up midweek
(54:04):
here in the Premier League.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Sorry, I just looked up mercurialism and it's a chronic
condition from long term exposure to mercury, so I'm not
sure that that would really make sense, but.
Speaker 4 (54:16):
I do listen to a lot of queen music.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Well, well, there you go, there you go. Anyways, that
wraps up this Oh hang on, sorry, there you go.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
That wraps up this edition of the London Club Council,
Very special edition with Jack pitt Brook love him coming
on and cutting out some time for us until next time.
We'll have a North London Derby to review next time
and we'll talk to you then. This has been the
London Club Council
We're at it again.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to another meeting of the London Club Council. Now
representing Tottenham Hotspur.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
In this corner we do have Brett Blakemore and repping
Arsenal is Robbie Rosenhaus. So boys, let the banter begin.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome into the London Club Council. I'm Brett Blakemore and
I represent Tottenham Hotspur. Over there is Robby Rosenhouse who
represents Arsenal and we have a special edition of the podcast.
Today we have the athletic Spurs beat writer Jack pitt
Brook talking all things Tottenham after that wild game in
Tanworth and the victory over Liverpool. Here it is Jack Well,
I want to start with this, Hey, thanks for coming on.
(00:46):
I have to talk about that game that just happened
in everyone's favorite town, Tamworth. I got in a really
heated argument with another buddy of mine who's a diehard
Spurs fan, and he was basically saying if they lost
that game, they should sack and immediately like that should
be he should be gone. And for whatever reason, maybe
(01:07):
it was because I was I was still on the
high of beating Liverpool and you know, we're one good
game away from going to Wembley. Maybe I just couldn't
be bothered by it at all, Like I really didn't care,
looked like we were in control the whole time. Didn't
really didn't bother me at all that it was happening.
What were your thoughts on that game and what side
of that argument do you fall on, where it was
(01:29):
a criminal offense, if they would have if God forbid
they would have lost, or who really cares?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I mean those games are so difficult to analyze,
aren't they, Because it's it's such a unique situation where
you're playing against a team which is so far beneath you,
but we has got, you know, so much extra special
motivation for that particular game, and it's a very you know,
it's been a pretty unfamiliar place to go. You know,
(01:56):
it's not like just a regular Premier League game. And
so if the ultimate lose lose scenario for the Premier
League team, like it's it's the only thing you can
do is just try and get through and hope that
nobody talks about it. So I, yeah, I have a
lot of sympathy for Tottenham, Like it would have been
completely humiliating if they'd lost, but also like they could
(02:17):
easily have lost. That they could, it wouldn't have been
that shocking really, I think if you particularly you watch
the game and how hard it was. So yeah, it's tough,
not really fun for anyone associated with Tottenham, but they
made it through in the end.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
So going from this cup competition to the other cup
competition and that's the match where they defeat Liverpool. And
I want to focus in on one specific player because
he's really caught my eye recently, and that's Lucas Bergfal.
Now not only is he putting in kind of stylistic
performances where it gets the goal, but he's also showing
(02:55):
a ruthlessness that I don't think that a lot of
Tottenham fans thought that he had, especially at that age
to get acclimated to the league. So my question was
going to be, does Bergvall or Gray impress you more
through halfway mark of the season or do you think
it's kind of Bergvall just kind of take I know
(03:17):
Grey has been put in the position where it's not
his normal position, but kind of Bergvall and Gray, just
a word on those two, especially Bergvall, who's really caught
my eye.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yes, I'd say, Gray impresses me more, although I think
Gray is phenomenon. Is a phenomenon, Like Gray is unbelievable.
You know this guy, you know he wants to be
a midfielder. He played it right back for Leeds last
year in the Championship. He's played the last i think
eight to nine games in a row center back, and
he's looked ridiculously good. Like he's not you know, he's
(03:48):
not a huge guy, Like maybe he will grow a bit.
He's on only eighteen, but his confidence on the ball,
his ability to bring the ball out from the back
is remarkable. So I think Gray is unreal. Bergval. Why
really like about berg Bat is how much we've seen
him improve over the course of the season. You know,
at the start of the season he looked technically good
but maybe not quite up to speed with the physical
(04:09):
pace of the English game. But I think in the
last month or so that's really improved. That Liverpool game
was a great example, Like he was running so much,
making interventions at both ends the pitch, you know, making
tackles and blocks, and then obviously popping up to score
the winning goals. So it's amazing seeing that kind of
physical output from him, because that wasn't always something that
(04:29):
we got at the start of the season.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Speaking of Bergvall, I have to ask the question when
it comes to that game, did Spurs did we get
lucky that he was on the pitch? For my money,
the first yellow shouldn't have been a foul, but he
got a yell for that. Probably could have got another
yellow for the second challenge, didn't and then he goes
to score the winning goal what five seconds later? So
did Spurs get lucky having him on the pitch?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
In my mind? Yeah, Like I think that both those
fous of yellow cars. I know he didn't make contact
with the first one, but he'd lund is quite reckless,
you know, Diaz has to jump out the way. The
second one is just an obvious yellow card. And I
know people have been quoting, you know, bits from the
rule book, like I actually don't care, Like I don't
care what's in the rules, Like football is more like
(05:14):
the rules of football are more than just what's written
down on a piece of paper. They are what people
understand through a lifetime of watching the game. And so frankly,
I think it's the I think they are both the
other cards, but that's just that's just my opinion. Lots
of people have different opinions, and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I think putting that aside and just looking at the
game as a whole, Liverpool put out basically besides Saba
slide their first choice team. I mean, I didn't see
anybody else on the pitch that that didn't belong. So
for Tottenham to get a result, and I think both
sides at the end of the match were kind of
(05:49):
just relieve Tottenham getting the victory before they go up
to Liverpool in a month's time when they could have
both first choice center backs back uh to to the
to the Premier League and and and kind of their
form there and and them trying to balance kind of
that competition with the other two when when it comes
(06:11):
to squad depth. I mean, do you see them now
kind of taking the league and putting it second tier
when it comes to importance or have we reached that
point yet. I know the Cup, I know the Europa
League is gonna be big for them, but I don't
see how twelve points back of even fifth place at
this point they're gonna come to even within a whisker
(06:35):
of Champions League. So do you see the Cup competitions
and and putting more, more more emphasis on those squads
rather than the Premier League.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, I I I think that the cup competitions will
be the priority in the second half of the season,
which is not not really a position that Tottenham I've
ever been in before, you know, Totenham coming, you know,
trying to get top four in the Premier League always
comes first. And yet this season I think it's gonna
be a bit different, and in part that's kind of
self preservation from pasta Coogloo like, I don't think, you know,
(07:06):
the league form is not good enough to allow him
to continue to be taught to manager next season, I think,
but they're still in three different cup competitions and if
they want any of them then he would be, you know,
an iconic immortal figure as cotlam manager. So I sense
that that is where the priority is going to have
(07:27):
to be, even if it means Tottenham will probably stay
in this very kind of unusually bad Premier League position.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, And just kind of curtailing off of that, I
wanted to ask just about your I'm I'm as big
of a ange bobo as you could possibly find. I
just I love everything about him but what are your
thoughts overall on the job that he's done to this
point and can we are you Are you as infatuated
with the second season? I always win something in my
(07:58):
second season? Topic is some of the the media members
are do you think that was just him just stating
a matter of fact, but overall your thoughts on edge
to this point in his job.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
That's a good question. Yeah, I mean he's really I
find him very interesting. I find his I think his
approach is fascinating. I think his football is fascinating. I
think he really stands out amongst Premier League managers for
his bravery. I think like his his willingness to play
(08:28):
a style of football which can get exposed so easily
and which can you know, goes very wrong if it's
not executed perfectly. You know, lots of Premier League managers
would always rather have a more like defensive, low variance
approach in the hope that they could kind of steadily
improve the team. So I find his approach fascinating in
(08:53):
terms of like how I assess how well he's doing well.
You know, they're obviously doing pretty badly in the Premier
League this year, and I think that's kind of how
how managers get assessed. I hope for his sake that
he manages to win one of those Cup competitions because
that will completely change what people view about him. And
I know from his point of view, it's been difficult.
You know, the squad is small, he doesn't have a
(09:15):
lot of good players. He has lots of you know,
the age profile of the squad is totally transformed under him.
He doesn't have you know, not only does he not
have Harry Kane, but he's got a kind of declining
son hung men, I'm afraid to say. So, he doesn't
have the same firepower that other Spurs managers have had,
and he's got a really difficult situation to manage. But
it's not going great, although maybe it will go better
(09:37):
at the end of the season. So like, there's only
the only way I think you can assess and is
you know, with a degree of equivocation and contexts and nuance,
because it doesn't fit into I think a kind of
you know, an easy like yes or no evaluation.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
So we have Jack Pittbrooke here, the Spurs writer for
the Athletic Jack Brett is a Spurs fan. I am
an Arsenal fan. I was lucky enough to go to
London for the first time. Brett had been over a
couple of times before, saw them win at the New
Stadium and then also saw them win at Brighton couple.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Harry Kane, Oh boy, what a game football.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
But I ended up getting to see Arsenal against Southampton
this year. Now they go down one nil and they
come back and they score three goals. To me, Southampton
are the only squad in the Premier League that are
a complete walkover. So this goes back to Andre with
a little bit of an Arteta twist here, do you
(10:37):
give the managers a little bit of kind of the
benefit of this Premier League season? And again PEP two
because City have fallen off and you see teams like
Forrest and Bourne Myth in the top six or seven.
So the Premier League seems ip switch taking points off
of Tottenham to Chelsea. So the Premier League seems a
(11:00):
lot more balance. So does that give ang and Arteta
and managers like that and PEP a little bit more
of an excuse that well, you know, results are tougher
to come by and there's not a lot of walkover
teams that there have been in previous seasons.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think the
I think the overall level of the smaller Premier League
teams has improved a lot, Like in the last five years.
You know, they've always had you know, they've got a
lot of money, which means that they can go out
and buy really good players. And because the Premier League
is so attractive to managers, a lot of them have
(11:34):
really good managers, you know, like Marco Silva is a
great manager, Ariola is a great manager. Clearly, like there's
some brilliant managers working with, you know, teams from outside
the big six, so that that raises the overall level,
I think. And I'm on the other hand, on the
other end of the scale. I think things like PSR
means that the biggest teams can't just spend like two three,
(11:56):
four hundred million pounds every summer just so they can
affect we blow the letter teams away. So I do
think that the kind of massive financial stratification that we've
seen in the Premier League in the last sort of
ten twenty years has maybe slowed down a little bit
and recently, and that means that it's a bit more
even why don't know is will we go back to
(12:21):
the era which of like the top two teams routinely
getting between ninety five and one hundred points in the
Premier League, because that's what we saw under Guardiola and
klop and you know it's not gonna happen this year.
I don't think, although Liverpool are looking pretty good at
the moment, but I wonder whether anyone will get up
to those points totals again or if that was just
a kind of something that happened in the you know,
(12:43):
sort of like twenty eighteen to twenty twenty three era.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Two questions and one for you here, I would say,
how much what percent do you think blame can be
put on the injuries for Spurs this year? And just
the lack of depth where you know you're you're playing
Archie Gray as we talked about as a center back,
even though that's not one of his positions, he's eighteen
years old. What percent of the blame can you put
(13:08):
on the injuries? What's realistic? And then my second one,
I wanted to ask about Malwane as well, because I
just saw from an aggregator, your favorite people, aggregators, they're
never wrong that they that spurs of mid contact with
PSG again for Mlwane, So I wanted to get kind
of your thoughts on that as well.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, so in terms of the injuries, Like, I mean,
it's a really big factor as to why why spurs
of struggle, Like they're a completely different team with Ramera
and Van der Venn. They were a different team with
the career and goal until they signed Kinski, Like they
need all those guys I think at one hundred percent
(13:46):
to play their football. That said, the injuries, Like, the
injuries are not random, are they, Like we know that
the injuries are a feature of Prosta Coogli's manage style.
They had a lot of these problems last year. I
think they kind of hoped that they would just get
through that last year. But and you know, you know,
(14:08):
lots of the guys who got into this year were
here last year as well. You know, not least the
defense had hamstring problems again, the Charles and hamstring problems again.
Romero not actually hamstring problem, but he had the foot injury,
then the quad injury as soon as he came back.
So you know, these things have not happened. Happened in
the vacuum. But the more they do happen, the more
(14:29):
that they exacerbate other problems, like the thinness of the squad.
So I kind of feel like it's a there's a
combination of issues here, namely the injury, like the busy
fixture list, tottenham thin squad, the style of play, all
of which lead to the injury crisis, and that kind
of exacerbates those problems. So it's hard to just look
(14:51):
at the injuries in isolation, like the injuries are both
the cause of and a symptom of Spurs's other problems.
But you know, it's really killed them, Like it's really
killed their ability to play their football this season. And
in terms of Colin Mowany, like I actually don't have
like an sort of fully up to date update beyond
(15:11):
the fact that clearly like he's someone that Tottenham are
interested in. I think that getting a sort of high
quality loan player does make sense for this window. You know,
he's he's obviously got a great, you know, a pretty
good background. He's played really well with the French national
team in the past, so I think it would make
sense easier to find somebody on loan this window rather
(15:34):
than you know, rather than trying to buy somebody permanent
late this time of year.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Other than Kolesovski, who I don't think any of the
three of us would argue is their player of the season.
So far, two players for me that have kind of
rose from the Ashes for different reasons. One is Brett's
favorite player, Brandon Johnson, and the other would be Jed Spence.
Now we saw them put in a decent shift on
(16:01):
the weekend in the in the in the Liverpool match,
it seems like Spence is being included more. It seemed
like his Tottenham career was basically over at one point,
and Brendan Johnson looked like it was headed that way too,
deleting his social media, not really celebrating when he scores.
He's got double digit goals this calendar year, and he
(16:22):
does a lot off the ball that analytics would say,
are you know he needs to beat his man one
on one a little more? But give us a word
or two on Johnson and Spence and how they've kind
of come good this year for a Spurs squad that
has desperately needed the depth that they have provided.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, So Spence is so interesting because Tottenham signed him
in summer twenty twenty two and then he didn't start
a game for Tottenham until December twenty twenty four. So
that's two and a half years of not starting a
game for the club. And it's not like he was,
you know, sixteen when they signed to either. You know,
when they signed him, he'd just come off the back
(17:02):
of a really good season for Nottingam Forrest and the Championship.
But then when you watch him play, you think, this
guy's a natural, Like he's so he's so naturally gifted,
like he's so athletic, he's so calm with the ball
at his feet, he's technically good and he looks like
somebody he should be playing, you know, fifty sixty games
a season as well as for the England national team
(17:25):
because you know, football comes so easily to him. So, yeah,
he's had a better to say, he's had a difficult job,
I think convincing managers not of his ability, but of
his application. You know, it's no, it's no. It's no
secret that he went on loan to Leeds United and
they didn't think he was behaving very well and they
send him back to Tottenham. And I think he's always
(17:48):
kind of struggled a little bit. I think to really
kind of hit this hit the right standards of like
professionalism and maturity. But I hope that he's turned a
corner in that respect. You know, positive spoke very positively
about his his work, great, his attitude to training. So
I'm looking forward to watching him play more.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
It is it a little like Ori a in that
in that aspect before he gets to Brendan.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Johnson maybe, although I guess on Spencer side, like he's
just younger like he's he doesn't like when when they
signed Oria, they signed Oria from Paris and Man and
he'd been like an established player in the French league
for a long time, whereas Spence's Spencer is still young,
he's not not actually played that much football. He's been
around for a while, but because of it's slightly unusual
(18:34):
career path, he's not played a lot of football, and
maybe he's you know, people people mature at different rates,
like he's. When he was a kid at Fulham, like
they always said he was just a little bit less
mature than his peers, and maybe he's taking him a
little bit longer to kind of grow up. But you
know that happens quite a lot in sports and if
he has, if he has grown up now, then it's
going to be a brilliant player. In terms of Johnson, Well,
(18:58):
Johnson's really interesting, isn't he Because his output's being fantastic
this year, Like he's he's really I think he's he's
so good at kind of understanding what Pasta Koglu wants
from his wingers in terms of, you know, stay high
and wide, stretch the opposit opposition defense. Then when the
balls on the other side, you kind of make that
that runs the far post and score and score the tap.
(19:19):
And he's really good at that. But I guess I
was kind of hoping that if he did that well
and his confidence would get better, then you might see
him kind of a bit better in one v one
situations and creating more chances for Spurs. Do you don't
really see that? Like often with Johnson you won't see
You'll barely see him in the game at all, and
then I'll score a goal and that's great. Like he's
(19:40):
very good at doing that, But I kind of feel
like Tottenham needs a little bit more from him. I
think in the final third.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
The one thing I do love this the way that
he can get to the back post. I think he
does it better than anyone on Spurs right now, but
I do agree the one on ones and other things
like that on the.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Ball could be better.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
We mentioned it briefly, but but Kinski signing him, how
do you think the goalkeeper position goes forward for Spurs?
Because everything that I'm hearing is, oh, this is going
to be a real competition now He's just not here
to be a backup. What are your thoughts on that
and him?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think this is going to be one of the
most interesting stories in twenty twenty five for Tottenham. I
don't think Kinski's come to be number two. But also
Vi Carrio has done has been pretty good really over
the year and a half that he's had at Tottenham.
I thought he started this season really well. I mean, yeah,
he's not perfect. He's got a bit of a weakness
(20:35):
on on set pieces, clearly, but then you know, lots
lots of players have got weaknesses in one form and another.
Kinsky's only played two games of Tottenham, so no one
it would be it would be a bit quick to
say that he's a perfect goalkeeper, but it's going to
be a really really like not many teams are in
this position where they have two goalkeepers with like a
(20:57):
rough leakqual claim to be number one. Like generally at
most big teams you have a one, you have a one,
and then you have like a good number two like
Edison and Ortaga for example, Alison and kellaher So and
generally if you have two GOALKI was competing, the guy
who loses the competition leaves the club, you know, like
David Ryer and Aaron ramstell arsenal. So, yeah, it's gonna
(21:18):
be really interesting. I don't know how it's going to go,
but I I mean, I mean, I guess I wouldn't
expect if Vicario becomes number one, I wouldn't expect Kinsky
to leave because Kinsky's just got there. But I think
this is going to be a really interesting talking point
this year.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Well, congratulations, we have made it with Jack Pittbrook, the
Spurs writer for The Athletic or about twenty three twenty
four minutes without mentioning Daniel Levey's name. So I just
want to give everybody a round of applot for doing that. Yeah,
because he clearly is a lightning rod for Spurs fans,
and while Brett and I are detached from it physically.
(22:03):
You know, we get what we get on social media,
we get what we get from the journals, and we
get very very little when Daniel Levy speaks, if when
he ever does so from an overall kind of perspective
and not from a fan perspective, just from from kind
(22:24):
of a journalistic is it is it frustrating not to
hear from him more? And to kind of because Arsenal
have the same problem. They don't hear from Stan Croncky
a lot either. So when when things go wrong and
things are kind of going a little amiss, now, so
does it frustrate you that you don't hear more from
the higher ups at the club? And do you think
(22:45):
that obviously he's a bigger part of the problems that
they've had the fact that they haven't won a trophy
and solo.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I certainly, I certainly do think that it would be
good to hear more from him. It's one of the
weird things about Premier League football is that the top
the only Tottenham employee who is accountable to the media
for the strategy of the club is Pasta Cooglu. You know,
Postocoglu does a press conference like well basically twice a
week of Spurs in Europe where he'll get asked about,
(23:15):
you know, why is topon doing this, why is something
doing that? But he didn't decide, Like he doesn't decide
club strategy. He just coaches the first team and the
people who do decide the club strategy. Really, I mean really,
it's just it's just Daniel Levy and people close to
Daniel Levy. You might also talk about you know, you
know hand Langa, the technical director, Scott Man and the
(23:35):
chief football officer. But like Daniel Levy does no media.
Really he will do, you know, he does like his
chairman's message, like at the when the accounts come out
at the end of every season, and then maybe at
the start of the season he'll kind of write a
piece on the web which goes on the website. Yah,
(23:56):
hand Langer at the end of the transfer window will
do an interview with the club website. But yeah, I mean,
if I was, I think Spurs fans want to hear
what the strategy is at the club and they want
to hear from Leaving and Langer and mun and these guys,
and it's not really I don't think it's fair that pasta.
Cooglu is the guy who has to come out and say, oh,
(24:17):
this is we could try and do X we're trying
to do. Why you know this is not a problem
you neiqu Tottenhaim. Every Premier League club is like this,
and I think it sucks at every single club, not
just as Spurs. But yeah, I certainly think they should
do more.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
They always do the Q and A like fan event,
and that's like the one time you see him in person.
It's like a fan except for when they cut. When
Spurs are losing every time to Levy in the crowd
I want to do, which is super annoying. I want
to end with kind of a less serious question because
I've been meaning to, have been thinking about this so
(24:51):
so I've been over twice, Robbie's been over once, and
something that I just can't I don't understand why it is.
But when you're over here, like we live in Minnesota
and the biggest team here is the Minnesota Vikings, the
NFL team, and I could go to the supermarket and
literally count a thousand different people wearing Vikings merchandise just
(25:13):
casually around town right when I go over there. I
mean even at the games, there's just nobody. They'll wear
a black jacket and then that's it. And I think
it's just a cultural difference, But I guess I just don't.
I mean, it's just such ingrained in our American culture.
Just wear the team stuff. I'm wearing Spur stuff right now.
I'm just at work, you know. So why do you
(25:34):
think that is from your perspective? Is it looked down upon?
Like you're you're taking it too seriously if you're wearing
Why do you think that cultural difference is a thing.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
It's a really, really, really good question, and you're right,
that is a cultural difference. People think it's kind of yeah,
like people generally would make jokes about somebody who wears
too much club stuff, particularly at a game, like it's
(26:04):
okay if you're a child, but to see, like, you know,
somebody our age wearing all club stuff, and this is
true of every club as well, like it would you
would get laughed at. I don't really know why. I
don't really know why, because it's not like I'm sure
(26:25):
fans would like to say, Oh, it's because you know,
English football is not as commercialized as American sports. But
of course, like Englishmen was incredibly commercialized, like football is
commercialized to a ludicrous degree, like everything is for sale,
and everything has a huge price, very high price, and
lots of people make tons of money out of it.
So but I think it's maybe just a kind of
(26:47):
cultural thing in the you know that the fans feel
like the fans want to feel maybe a little bit,
maybe a little bit independent from the kind of you know,
the corporate entity. I'm sure it annoys. I'm sure it
annoys people who owned the club, Like if you're if
you're like if you're Daniel Levy or anyone who owns
and runs a Premier League club, you would much rather
(27:09):
fans not just pay one hundred pounds of the match ticket,
but before the game spend like two hundred pounds in
the club shop too. And I know if you go
to a club, if you go to a club shop,
and this is true of all Premier League clubs before
a game, I reckon most people in there will be
you know, children'll be tons of children and getting the
replica shirt with their favorite player's name on the back.
(27:31):
And then maybe like new fans, out of town fans,
you know, not not only American fans, like there's tons
of fans from you if you go to Totten game,
there's tons of fans from career obviously to watch some
So you know, the Premier League global appeal is really
important to the Premier League. But like English, like local
English fans would just think it was a bit corny
(27:52):
to like have the cap and the scarf and the
jacket and the gloves and everything.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, like if you go to a Vikings game here,
like there wouldn't be a single person not wearing purple
in the whole building. Like that's just kind of I
think the line for us is like if you're an
adult and you have like a Vikings jersey that has
your own name and number, people be like, come on, like,
what are you a kid? But if you wore like
the Quarterbacks jersey, ever, no one would deny whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So it's just something culturally different that I noticed that
I was.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I was a little Really it's a really really good topic.
It's a really good question, and I think it's for whatever,
for combination reasons. I just the English. There's something about
English football fans which is a bit they're just not
comfortable doing that for whatever reason, or though maybe that
maybe that would change in time. I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Oh one one more for me, Jack, And I'd be
remiss if I didn't ask about the upcoming fixture coming
up two days from today, and that is the Arsenal
Tottenham North London Darby taking place at the Emirates. It's
been a few few years since Tottenham have beaten Arsenal.
I believe it was. Was it three? Three seasons ago?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It was?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It was fantastic game three.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Now I would be lying if I said I wasn't
worried because their forum has dipped as you've seen, and Tottenham,
as we know, it's a it's a roller coaster. We
don't know what they're going to get. So wouldn't it
be the most fursy thing during the season of ups
and downs, when you're losing to Ipswich, you go to
the Emirates and you pick up three points. That's what
(29:34):
I'm concerned about. How do you see things playing out
Wednesday night in North London?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Well, the only I mean the only teams that the
only team that totam can be are other good teams,
you know, they like their last sixth wins were against
the City City Liverpool, Man United and somebody else as Villa.
So I think they've got as good a chance of
winning this as they do of any other game, which
is that's really because Arsenal really good and Tottenham's record
(30:03):
against Arsenal is pretty bad. Their record at the Emirates
is terrible. I'm really really awful. Well, I don't know
like I think that I think Tottenham. I think Tottenham
recently they've kind of stumbled upon a slightly like modified style,
which I think might work. They're less aggressive, I think
than they used to be. I don't think Arsenal playing
(30:23):
very well at the moment. I think Arsenal look a
bit a bit under pressure, Like I feel like their
normal football is not flowing. They've struggled a lot with
injuries this season. So I think that I think that
Tottenham's chance in this game is actually better than you
would think if you look at their position in the
league table. And I'm not saying they're going to win,
but I think there's like I wouldn't be super surprised
(30:45):
they did well.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
I feel like Arsenal at a turning point to where
it's gone toxic after the United game with some of
the fan interactions that I've seen. If they lose the
Spurs at home, I mean it.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Could go yeah, yeah, it could be bad.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
So anyways, Jack, thank you so much for joining us.
We really appreciate you covering out some time for us
and talking.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Spurs with us. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Join it.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
There.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
It is Jack pitt Brook with us from the Athletic
covering all things Spurs, and I think we've done a
solid half hour on Tottenham on my club, so we
can finally get around to your club. Robbie what he say,
things are in turmoil. You lose a game against ten
Man United in the FA Cup. Out of that AFTV
calling for the head of Arteta saying that you shouldn't
(31:30):
cheer for players when you sign them anymore. Lots of
things going wrong in that Arsenal camp. And as we
mentioned with Jack, if you lose the Spurs, things could
go from toxic to I guess really toxic.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
I just I think at this point people need to
sit down, put their feet up, take a nice glass
of scotch, take a cigar, and take a big sleeping
pill and relax. Just like Aaron Rodgers quarterback here in
the United States for the Green Bay Packers and the
(32:04):
New York Jets has said in the past.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
R e Las.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Everybody, everybody needs to relax. They're out of the FA Cup.
The Carabell Cup is not their priority.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
You've got to be kidding me.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
The disappointing results this week, while short term, are going
to fire up a portion of the fan base. For
me an it just goes back to the fact that
they have called out for a striker for years and
now it's just bubbling up to the surface, especially with
Havertz missing the penalty. I have said that he is
(32:46):
good enough upfront. Is clear that I am turning out
to be wrong because after Jay Sus goes down with
an injury, now they're looking at one airy with an
injury and a lot of problems up front, and that
is where it gets boring. And this is not an
Arsenal side that has depth up front. They got rid
(33:10):
of Ketia in the off season, they got rid of
Ballagoon in the off season. So they're going to be
fishing for a striker I think in January, and if
they don't get one, I think they're gonna wind up
trophy list this year. This is the first time that
I've said that I have not seen enough here. Even
(33:31):
with where they sit in both tables that matter, they
sit where they need to be in the Champions League table,
in the automatic places where they'll get that they won't
have to play a playoff. All they need to do
is get a couple more wins in these last three matches,
and two of the last three are at home, the
other ones in Spain, so not a long trip.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
And then it.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Comes down to whether or not in the Premier League,
you think that they're a title contender right now with
half the seat reason to go, I still think they are.
If you think Forest are, then you think Arsenal are.
And people thought Chelsea were and they go and lose
to Ipswich and Nowers I think, I think people have
(34:13):
well Top four contenders definitely, I mean they're I mean
right now they're they're four to one to make the
top four. But I mean, why not Lester did it
six seven, eight years eight years ago? I mean, why
can't Forrest do it now? The way they keep turning
out results. If you listen back to our interview with
Jack Pittbrook, I talked about how how even the league
(34:34):
is the one thing I will say though about Forrest
before I get back to Arsenal is that they haven't
had really their dip in form yet. Arsenal's have their
dip in form. Chelsea have had a couple of dips
in form now they're in in one right now, Arsenal
or in one right now. So before we get to
the Arsenal Tottenham match, back to just the over Arsenal picture,
(34:57):
which is what you asked me about, and I everybody
needs to relax, everybody needs to chill. But to gloss
over the problems would be would be just lying to
myself and to the rest of the Arsenal fan base,
because there definitely are problems there and they're not even
(35:19):
playing exciting football right now, so it's gone a bit stale,
and I think that's where we are. So while while
it's gone stale, I know I'm talking probably out of
both sides of my mouth here that while people need
to relax, people need to relax, there are problems. I
don't think the problems are enough where it'll torpedo the
club to where they won't wind up going far in
(35:41):
either of the competitions that matter the most this season.
If that is a long way to get to where
I want it to be.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah, it was like you were talking in stereo. I
heard you out of my right headphone and then a
little bit later I heard you out of my left headphone,
just making both sides of the argument.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Well, well that's why I even I acknowledged it, though,
I mean I acknowledge that that you know. But again
you can acknowledge that Will Spurs are playing good football.
Sometimes sometimes they don't play good football.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Sometimes maybe good sometimes maybe yes, yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Blank, sometimes maybe put the E symbol on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I wanted to ask you also because a big talking
point with Spurs is the injuries right now, and I
think the amount, sheer amount of injuries to first team
players is worth recognizing. I don't think your list is
as long, but it could be as star studded. How
much are you missing Sokka in the inn the final third?
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Well, this is where I'm going to put you in
a box because for a few years now you have
told me how overrated he is, how one footed he is,
how he he you're you're you're putting him basically on
a pedestal. Well, Exhibit A B and c because since
he's gone out, they have not turned out results. They
have looked boring down the right side. They've now put
(36:57):
players who are on the on the left on the
right with Martinelli. It's not working party and right back
not working. Uh. Declan took the game off in the
FA Cup. He's gonna come back and play against Tottenham.
He's probably their second most important player. Listen. The bottom
line is the last two seasons they probably should have
(37:17):
won the league, and this year they're not playing well
in a league that's there to be had and they're
probably not going to win it now. While I just
said in my last rant there that they're still in
the title race, if you put a gun to my head,
do I think they're gonna win it? No, of course
I can't sit here and say that, but they're still
in the race. Back to soccer, he is their most
important player. He is. If there was an MVP award
(37:40):
like they give out here in the States in our
professional leagues, he would be in the mix for MVP. Now.
Mossala would probably run away with it this year because
he has the most goals and is the best player
in the league. Before he departs for wherever he's going to.
But soccer, double digit goals, double digit assists. I saw
him score a goal have two assists when I went
(38:01):
to that game that I previously mentioned with Jack, the
three to one win over Southampton. I saw it live
with my own two eyes. I see it live every week.
Everything goes down the right channel, for better or worse.
He is a big, big part of what they do. Okay,
last season when they missed Saliba down the stretch, he
is the foremost important player. Okay, things fell apart at
(38:22):
the back. They started leaking goals and they threw away
the title. He was a very important part of what
they do. Odo guards in there, and when he left,
everybody was saying, oh, the created chances and things like that. So,
but every club has injuries, which is my overall point here.
If we go to Spurs, you've been missing your top
two center backs. We talked about it, Jack, They're a
(38:43):
definite different team with the Vicario and Van Deven and
Romero back there. Now we can get into your keeper
thing on another episode and we'll see how that plays out,
because I think right now it's just speculation at this point.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Neither one good, but it's two games that I said.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
There was no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
He was.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
He was very good with with with with distribution, made
a couple of good stops on Darwin Juniez in that game.
I thought he was he was up to the task.
But I just think that, uh, I think, I think
that people need to realize how important soccer is to
the team. And now I think you're starting to realize
that without him, they're not creating a lot from open
(39:26):
play and and all this set pCFC stuff has gone
up and smoke when when it's dried up the last
couple of games and they're not getting it from those corners.
He hey, SOCCA was one of the guys that took
those corners along with Declan Rice. So yes, there is
a bit of trouble, but everybody just needs to relax.
We're only halfway through the season. They're only out of
one cup competition, and and they can go up to
(39:48):
New Council and get a goal and then it's game on.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
How do you how do you feel about stealing bits?
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Stealing bits?
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, because I'm gonna dust this bit off because you're
trying to put me in a box and I don't
even think I don't even think they use this bit anymore,
but I'm going to do it because I like it.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
Lady, then gentlemen, stop right up and see Harry Nani
Radio Dan the common man Cool. What Jessie escapes be
boxed in by listeners, celebrities or even tenants.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Or even Robbie Rosenhaus.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Amazement.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
All right, I'm going to escape this box here that
that you've put me in. I don't think that Sokka
being out is making you know, Odegard miss a pen,
you know, our Haverts miss a sitter, a three footer,
you know, or Havert's missing a pen. I don't think
that it, and you know, affects defensively giving up those goals, which,
(40:46):
by the way, the Bruno goal was an unbelievable finish.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I'm not sure anyone's stopping that.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
I just think that it's it's all little the dip
in form with those guys who were really good, like
Hartz was scoring goals for fun at one point, and
now all of a sudden, Sokka is not on the
right and now he's missing sitters, and and Oude guard
has been Rice has not been as good, and just
everyone's dip and form. I felt like since Soaka is.
(41:11):
I don't know if it's a confidence thing, but I
don't think that Sokker being one footed or not not
completely one footed, but just just a little touch overrated
doesn't mean that Harts has free reign to just miss
sitters because I think that, you know, the open play
has been there.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
But I don't know.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
Listen, there's some guys that are at a form, there's
no doubt about it. Have Earth's completely out of form
right now. This Martinelli out a form, no doubt about it. Okay,
So those are two guys that I don't know what
has happened to Martinelli. Two years ago, he was viewed
as an up and coming guy that was going to
be a huge, huge part of what Artetet was trying
(41:51):
to build there. I mean, he was in one of
the chants. I'm not going to do the chant now,
but you.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Know, apparently you can't because you're a customer. Apparently that's
what I.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
Told, you know, Gabby in the back, I mean Gabby
in attack Arsenal along the way to Champions League. Well
they're there, and yeah, they're going to hopefully perform well
in a couple of weeks time. But those are just
two examples of players who have gone out of form.
And with that, those are two guys that you're getting
goals from and right now they're not providing them.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Yes, amazing game, all right, So I got out of that.
I just like that they need to bring that bit
back by the way, because that's a great that's a
great bit anything else you want to touch on with
your arsenal squad going into this North London Derby, we
can get this out of the way before we kind
of rapid fire through the rest of the Big Six. Personally,
(42:46):
for me with this North London Derby, my confidence is
still at an all time low. It's a curse building.
It's we still the fan has learned, don't have our
starting two center backs.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
We still don't have vocariolthough I do like Kinski, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
My confidence level is not very high. My only confidence
comes from the fact that you guys are not in
very good form right now.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
That's literally it.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Because they struggle to break the low block of Tamworth
this week. So yeah, they did just beat the best
team in the world and I'm still flying on that.
But I'm my expectations are very low for Spurs obviously.
Jack Pickbrook earlier says, I might there might be some
cause for hope, but my dabba is down for this
and I'm not expecting anything. I'll be pleasantly surprised if
(43:28):
we get a point from this.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Well, the way Arsenal have been playing, I think there's
every opportunity to hit them on the counter. I mean,
there's not a lot going forward when it comes to Arsenal,
and if it's not through oder guards, there's not a
lot creatively in the midfield. I mean, Marino is an
okay player. Georginho is not quick and not exactly you know,
a creative midfielder. He sits more in a deeper role,
(43:54):
just like Deck Glynn does. And the way they've been
playing lately, they they failed to break down that low block.
They've been passing back and forth and back and forth.
And if it's not through oder guard with perhaps balls
over the top or through balls, I mean you see
a few of them again, but there's not a ton
of build up like there was the last two seasons.
(44:15):
There was so much good play and I understand that
Saka and Ben White were a big part of that.
Down the right flank the two of them in flowing
and you realize why they were England internationals. But I mean,
you can't deny the fact that you know they're having
(44:37):
issues creating a lot of chances and Tottenham have struggled
with teams that create a ton of chances and right
now Arsenal aren't doing that. I mean, if you look
at their expected goals from open play the last couple
of matches, it hasn't been good. We go back to
just about a month ago when they were firing in
five against Portuguese sides and s tam and things like that,
(45:01):
and all those goals right now have dried up. So,
as the old adage goes, doesn't matter what sport it is,
it's not about who you play sometimes, it's about when
you play them. And right now I think tottenhamber catching
Arsenal at the right time. It's a midweek game, it's
(45:23):
a night game. So I just think that you can
get a draw out of this. Now. I'm not gonna
go I mean, if who would have thought that, by
the way they're gonna they're gonna start with the torch, well,
who would have thought, well, Brett.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Who would have thought that we would try to convince
each other that the other team would win or do
well you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (45:41):
Well here, well yeah, and it goes back to you know,
I can go back to two months ago when or
a month ago, six weeks ago, whenever the draw was
when uh yourself, a friend of ours, Jesse and I
were sitting there watching the f A Cup draw and
we all all rolled our eyes when Tottenham drew Tamworth
(46:04):
but Arsenal drew Man, You and all this like, oh
they'll they'll get by United, like you know, because we're
really yeah at home, right. And Mark Goldbridge, who we
all enjoy enjoy his his content entertaining to Yeah, he's
he's the founder and the owner of the United stand,
I mean his his United reactions are great and and
(46:27):
you know he was going crazy as to as to
how they can draw Arsenal away and just kind of
dismissing it as a loss before they even took the pitch. Well,
as we know, Arsenal played against ten men for the
better part of an hour and were unable to find
a goal. And they deserved everything they got in penalties.
(46:48):
And that's why I wasn't even disappointed. I was more
angry at the fact that they could not find a
goal and they got everything that they deserved.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Yeah, I think for me it's a very low risk,
high reward game. If we lose, Yeah, it is what
it is. Arsenal is a good squad. It's at the Emirates.
If we win, it's the greatest thing ever. I do
want to get to a couple of things as well.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
It's the greatest thing ever. You know. One thing I've
learned about you, Brett, in our three years of of
of knowing each other that there's not a lot more
that you enjoy than going into your rivals, well, just
just playing your rivals in general. Because I feel like
(47:34):
you've told me in the past that Arsenal home is
like the game that the match that you really want
to win the most of of n match at right
at Tottenham Hotsper Stadium. Right, but just but just when
when it comes to rivals, I feel like it just, uh.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
There's special about it.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
Who's whose league was it that had the slogan? It
just means more.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
That would be the sc Yeah, yeah, there we go.
Speaker 4 (48:01):
It just means more to Brett Blake Moore, Winns Spurs
play Arsenal and it means more to me too. Listen.
I can go back and and think of some some
some very memorable moments. I mean when we first met
a few years ago, I mean Caine and and those
two goals, two goals and what under like a minute
(48:22):
or two minutes or whatever, back to back boom boom,
and you know, and they end up nipping, nipping the
Champions League. But I can go back to games at
the Emirates when.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
Off for yeah, open ice, body checking sonny yah yeah,
not good.
Speaker 4 (48:39):
Yeah, but then there were two leads that Tottenham threw
away at the Emirates, I mean five two wins, so
you know they've it's been a sordid history for Tottenham
at the Emirates. But I think it's like I said,
if there's any time that you want to play Arsenal, it's.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Now a couple of things I want to get to
before we wrap things up here. To managers out to
managers in Sean dish out at Everton they bring in
David Moyes, the old west Ham manager. And speaking of
west Ham, they bring in Graham Potter of all people,
So what what do you think of those two hirings
and Firings.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
Uh well, well, Grandpotter was seen entering the stadium on
Saturday with the Goblet of Fire. I don't know if
you saw that, did you did you?
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Did you end up see the goblet of Fire? Did
you put your name in the goblet of Fire? You
don't even get that reference?
Speaker 4 (49:31):
No, I don't. But I like both Hires. I like
both Hires. I think both are are stabilizing caretaker managers
for now. I think Potter the job is too big
for him. A Chelsea Moys has a history at Everton,
and I can't see them, you know, lasting for a
(49:51):
long long time, even Potter at west Ham. I mean,
I just I think he'll he'll wear around a welcome
soon enough. But he's he did a great job at
Brighton and and.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Yeah, people forget about how good he was.
Speaker 4 (50:02):
I think, just to stabilize there and to realize that
they need to make sure that they get at least
stay somewhat touching distance from the relegation zone. But I
think the Moys higher was what was pragmatic. I thought
it was. It was definitely something that had been in
the works for a while. Ditch hadn't been churning out
(50:24):
wins a lot of draws, including one at the Emirates
which annoyed me to no end. But they didn't play
attractive football. They weren't scoring goals. They were relying on Pickford,
England's number one, to bail them out of games. And
we'll see if Moys can keep them up in the league.
That's the that's their biggest priority. They're moving into a
multi multi, multi million dollar, billion dollar stadium at Bramley
(50:49):
Moore Doc just in Liverpool. There and just a gorgeous,
state of the art new ground for Everton and they
can't go in there and play Queen's Ark Rangers and reading.
I mean, they have to keep their Premier League status
and I think that's what Moys was brought in to do.
He won a Conference League trophy at west Ham, he
(51:10):
was at Everton and had success there and I think
he'll be able to keep them up in fourteenth or fifteenth.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
I for one, will not. I love Sean Diysch as
a person. I did not like playing against him this
first because he always just had the answer for our
attacking football. Is not fun to play against him, and
I think Grand Potter will do a decently good job
as well. I think, yeah, maybe the Chelsea bit there
was just a lot going on behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
We don't know.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
Was a job too big for him, but I think
I think he'll do a good job. I think it's
what have you done for me lately situation where lately
at Chelsea was not good, but if you look at Brighton,
he took them to new heights. So the last thing
I want to wrap up with there are several six
pointer games. I wanted to get your thoughts on which
(51:57):
one you are looking forward to the most tech Technically,
this is a six point game kind of fourth place
Chelsea against seventh place Bornemouth. Who would have thought that
would be a six point game? And then obviously this
is a six pointer Liverpool going to Nottingham Forest. That
is two o'clock tomorrow. I will be watching that probably
(52:19):
Belta Bell.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
Yeah, so I think you hit the nail on the
head right there with that second match. I think considering
the fact you kind of questioned my take as to
whether or not Forrest are in a title race, well,
you know what, by the time you're listening to this podcast,
you may know if they hurt a title race or not,
(52:42):
because it's going to go a long way into determining
whether or not they have the staying power if they
can grind out a result tomorrow or even a win
against Liverpool at home and do the double over them.
This year. Forrest have played some outstanding football and they're
a club that in the seventies were draped in some
(53:02):
in some European glory, have some trophies in their cabinet.
So this is a team that's kind of been in slumber,
just like Leeds were for a long time and they
popped up in the Premier League. It looks like they're
gonna pop up in the Premier League next year and
be promoted, but not in a forest or not some
small club like Tamworth. I mean, they're a club rich
with hist Now they may be in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
And they'll let you know about it too.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
Yeah yeah, in the Midlands. But I just think that
they're they're here to stay. They have some very very
good players and I don't think it's a fluke. I've
seen enough of them where they're beating the big sides,
and you know all about beating big sides, Brett with
your club, and I think I see a little bit
(53:44):
of mercurialism. If that's a word, I'd have to google
it after Probably it may be I couldn't spell it
to their club and also to yours as well, So
I think that's the match I have my eye on
when it comes to the six pointers coming up midweek
(54:04):
here in the Premier League.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Sorry, I just looked up mercurialism and it's a chronic
condition from long term exposure to mercury, so I'm not
sure that that would really make sense, but.
Speaker 4 (54:16):
I do listen to a lot of queen music.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Well, well, there you go, there you go. Anyways, that
wraps up this Oh hang on, sorry, there you go.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
That wraps up this edition of the London Club Council,
Very special edition with Jack pitt Brook love him coming
on and cutting out some time for us until next time.
We'll have a North London Derby to review next time
and we'll talk to you then. This has been the
London Club Council
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