Mark Belling Podcast #73: A local fake conservative school doubles down on rejecting Turning Point, a Brewers fan wrecks her life by taking a Dodger fan’s bait and makes a racially inappropriate comment (everything in the world is on YouTube; adapt!) and President Trump isn’t a threat to democracy. He IS democracy.

Mark’s take on a Dodgers fan in Milwaukee who taunts a Brewers fan into making a terrible mistake, Lake Country Classical Academy still says no to Charlie Kirk’s group and plays the victim card while doing so.  And, our weekly football preview and point-spread picks (Mark is 5-2 this year)

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm going to open with a story here, and there's
a reason I'm opening with this. The story has to
do with a federal indictment that came down grand jury issued.
Original investigation began last week into a guy from Kenosha
who's facing serious charges of threatening to kill an FBI agent.

(00:43):
He made other threats against other federal agents as well. No,
I'm just going to briefly go into the detail of
the story and then I'll tell you why I'm leading
with the story. Much of my background here comes from
Kenosha County, I which I think was the first to
originally report of the story. I quote are now unsealed
federal indictment. It's apparently several days old, was unsealed I

(01:04):
think yesterday or the day before. The man's name is
Andrew Warren Stanton. He's from Kenosha, thirty eight. Now again
that's a fairly common name, so if you know somebody
with that name, this guy's thirty eight and He's from Kenosha.
He's a United States military veteran. According to the report
on js online and the report in Kenosha County I,

(01:29):
He's accused of threatening to murder a federal officer. He
also produced a series of TikTok videos calling for violence
against federal agents and in particular, ICE agents. I'll quote
from the Kenosha County Eye report. The FBI's Joined Terrorism
Task Force began investigating Stanton after the Wisconsin Statewide Intelligence

(01:52):
Center flagged disturbing social media activity on his TikTok account.
In one August video, Stanton allegedly said, we're not getting
through to them with using our words. That's never going
to happen. You have to use bullets, and another he declared,
I think we should be offing federal agents. He went

(02:14):
on to specifically name by name a specific federal agent.
It's in the indictment, but I'm not going to mention
it here. So what this was is he went on
and on and on for some period of time calling
for murdering federal agents. And if we've learned anything of recent,
people are willing to do this type of thing. It's

(02:35):
a crime to do it, and he's obviously indicted. I
want you to remember that story as I go into
my free break here because it relates to the point
that I'm going to make about the next story. First
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(03:25):
We have another like Karen story, this one from Milwaukee.
I was at both of the first two Brewer games
in For those of you listening to this, I should
mention that we're doing this podcast before game three, a
few hours before Game three autunless nothing to say about
what's happened in those games because occurring after we do this.
But anyway, game two, in particular, in Milwaukee, the first

(03:51):
pitch thrown to a Brewer was to Jackson Curio, who
hit a home run, so of course everybody goes crazy.
First pitch. It was the only run the Brewers score
in the entire game. In any event, were like crazy. Well,
you know, shortly after that, the Dodger scored and then
they took the lead. There weren't lots of Dodger fans

(04:13):
at the stadium. There's always fans of the other team
that are there, but it's nothing a Cubs game. But
there were Dodger fans that were there, and there was
an incident and we know about it because it's captured
on video of a Dodger fan. He was sort of
sitting in the area like behind home plate, slightly to
the Brewer's side, and he's videoing himself getting on all

(04:36):
the Brewer fans. Why you're so quiet now, Why you're
so quiet now? Other's okay the Brewer fans, but nuts
when they scored. Now, they like me and everybody else,
are sitting on our hands because nothing's happening, and nothing's happening,
and this Dodger fan starts getting on people. Now, first
of all, this takes a lot of balls. He's a
Dodger fan, he's an American family field. Almost everybody a

(05:00):
on him is a Brewer fan and he's taunting him.
This stuff happens, and it happens. Its sports, and there's
trash talking that goes on at Paul games. It happens.
It's I think, always dangerous to do a lot of
trash talking when you're in the visit, when you're a
visitor in the other team's home stadium. And there are

(05:20):
some stadiums in which we've seen somebody will we'll clack you.
We've seen real fights breakout. This wasn't a fight instead
a woman, And I don't know if he was targeting
her with the taunts, because we only know where his
video starts. We can assume it was his cell phone.
If it wasn't, it was somebody standing right next to him,

(05:45):
and she gets into an exchange with him. Part of
the exchange was a pretty good shot back. Now, I'm
gonna use language here because there's no way to act
her other point on the story without hearing the language.
So for those of you don't want to hear it,
that's my disclaimer. But she first said he's drinking a
pussy drink, which I think is a pretty good shot.

(06:06):
I'm guessing it was one of those like hard lemonade things.
It might be one of those like colored drinks that
the that the tall blonde girl always walks around with.
But my guess is that it's not a beer. Okay,
I think that's a pretty good shot. All right, he's
barking back. The man is obviously Latino, and she makes

(06:28):
a comment about somebody called ice. We have the exchange here.
There's going to be an F bomb in it, and
we are going to play it because I think it's
important to hear the entire context of everything that both
people said. You have it ready, Paul. All right. Now again,
it's a little bit hard to hear clearly, but I

(06:48):
think you can make it out here. It is.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
Everybody quiet, What is this? I'm sorry, Paul eyes us this.
We're veteran, any girl, We're veteran.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
To Wards, I said, tell.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Me good luck, good luck, good luck. Calais callom callum
fucking idiot?

Speaker 2 (07:19):
All right, that's it, she said, somebody call ies. He
called her an F bombing idiot. In addition to back
and forth, he sounds loaded. But I don't know if
he was or he wasn't. Maybe that's just how he sounded.
Undeniably the guy was the one who provoked Also undeniably,

(07:41):
the woman said to a Latino, call Ice. Every news report.
And for those of you not aware, this story is global.
You heard about the phillies, Karen. I don't think they
ever identified the phillies, Karen, the one who went and
stole the This woman got identified right away. She works

(08:02):
for Manpower and Milwaukee. Manpower fired her and issued a
statement disassociating themselves basically from her entire existence as a
human being. She resigned as a member of the board
of Make a Wish. This is going to follow her forever, forever.

(08:24):
Her comment was, somebody call Ice. First of all, Ice
is the most hot button word in the English language
right now. Ice, immigration and customs enforcement is just reviled
by everyone on the American left. Obviously her reference somebody
called Ice. The guy is Latino, So that's what she said,
somebody call Ies. She doesn't know if he's legal or illegal.

(08:47):
He's legal, That was the comment. I have a number
of things to say about this. First, the thing that
I've done, this made this point a million times, so
this is a million in one. It remains beyond me
that people do not understand that our entire world has changed.

(09:11):
That guy's phone may as well have set been a
giant camera that's set on the side YouTube. Anything that
happens is now showing up on YouTube. Secondly, the guys
videoing this, that means his goal was to get a reaction.
Why else is he videoing himself doing the taunting unless

(09:32):
he's trying to get a reaction. I don't know what
it is. It's all these police videos and everything else.
Do you not understand you're being recorded? There have been
people public officials and assistant attorney general in a state,
you know, somebody arrested after a drunken thing and an
exchange of the people right and left are having their
careers ruined because of things that they do in public

(09:53):
because it gets plastered up on YouTube. It doesn't seem
to me to have changed. Maybe it has changed people's behavior,
but it doesn't seem as though it has. I'm sure
it never dawned on this woman that when she said
somebody call Ice, the whole planet would within thirty six
hours see her saying somebody call Ice. So is at

(10:15):
least the caution to people in my audience, do understand
that if you're in public there's a chance you're being recorded,
and in this case, the guy's holding his phone, and
don't think for a moment it won't show up on YouTube.
If a cop is pulling you over and you're lippy
at all, there's a good chance that the CoP's going
to tip off somebody to make an open records request,

(10:35):
that it's going to show up on one of these utes.
It's just the way it is. The counter to that,
my guess is that the rest of this woman's life
has probably been I mean, she's a volunteer's a board
member at Make a Wish. She's there at a brewer game.

(10:56):
This guy's taunting her. She makes one little crack. She
didn't pure drunk, she didn't appear to be. She just
appeared to be somebody kind of fed up with this
goof of a guy that was taunting her and trying
to get this reaction. Now, the guy's doing interviews with
everybody under the sun. The Los Angeles media has made
a huge thing of it. He's all murdering himself up
right and left. He set out to get this reaction.

(11:18):
I mean, it was his entire goal to get somebody
to say something. I don't know that he was offended
by the saying ice because what he got out of
this was his video. If she just if she paused, slapped,
said she was trapping away the phone, she was trying
to slap away the phone. In other words, he got
exactly what he wanted. He forgot. I'm gonna go into
this game in Milwaukee and I'm gonna hack off some
Broer fan and I'm just gonna try and see if

(11:39):
they know something that's over the top enough that I
can have the viral video and my moment in the sun.
And she fell for it. It seems to me as
somebody who himself a quarter century ago got in trouble
for making a comment that is dealing in this whole
general area with illegals. That for this woman, who is

(12:03):
not a public figure, she's not in anything to have
her life entirely savaged over this one comment is wrong.
As for her employer or manpower, I have no idea
what her entire work history is. But they want to
be on the right side of political correctness here, so

(12:24):
they not only can or but they kind of publicly do.
So it doesn't reflect our values. This that and the
other thing. I just wonder how many. Manpower is a
huge company. They're like in every country in the world.
They have to have employees who've done things that are
worse than this. You know, Manpower has had their own
issues on the H one B visa type of issue. Now,

(12:50):
I did a story that I hope you do not forget.
Paul will have forgotten because Paul has zero memory. The
part of his brain that contains memory is just long
since evaporated. Pul says, unless it's like drumming, you don't
remember what was the story I just did four minutes ago.
Oh my goodness, I even said, remember this story. The
story was about the guy from Kenosha who threatened to

(13:13):
kill the ice agents. You say, oh yeah, Ay. The
fact of the better is you had already forgotten that story,
which is why I tell people now, I do realize
that everyone in the audience is the only person who's
possible that has a worse memory than Paul is me.
I'm right there, but I think I might surpass him.
Although I left my phone at home today and spend
an hour and a half looking for it before I

(13:34):
finally just had somebody go in and go into my
place and look and see if the phone is in there.
I'm getting worse and worse and worse myself. You and
I are just going to be great in the home together,
babbling away. You're gonna think that you're Thomas Jefferson, and
I'm going to think that I'm Julius Caesar, except we
won't be able to tell his tales because we won't
remember anything that Thomas Jefferson or Julius Caesar anyway. Anyway,

(14:03):
the guy from Kenosha, I don't know this, and I
don't know where he works. I don't know if he
has a job. He's facing charges, and the FEDS are
at last I checked holding him. I wonder if he's
been fired. Look at the number of people who do
all manner of awful things in Milwaukee that don't get fired.

(14:28):
Sixteen brunk drivings, domestic violence. We have people in Milwaukee
who do terrible things over and over and over again
that don't even get arrested, that the DA doesn't charge.

(14:50):
The first guy threatened to kill FBI and ICE agents
won by name. I think I don't know if he
hasn't been fired. I don't know, because who knows anything
about him. I'm merely saying the people that are caught
on video doing something, particularly if it has anything to
do with race, and again particularly if it involves words
rather than actions. I honestly wonder if she smacked him

(15:15):
in the face rather than say that, would she I
think she'd be in less trouble. I honestly do. I
think she would have arrested it she smacked him in
a face, but I don't think they would have fired
her for that. I'm not defending what she said. She is,
you know, throw ice out because he's Latino. I get it.

(15:35):
On the other hand, there was extreme provocation by her,
and he's hurling enough vomb at her. Admittedly this was
after she did the thing that she did. It seems
to me that the humiliation that's going to follow her
and how this is going to dog her, she's getting

(16:00):
a greater punishment than the offense. Given that this type
of punishment that she's getting global humiliation on YouTube, and
you know, anybody who searches their name on Google. The
counter to that is this, at least for the rest
of you, needs to be a teaching moment. There's all
sorts of things you can do when people trash talk back,

(16:20):
but there's certain things you can't do.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Well.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Of course, the Philly Karen thing was worse. This woman
said something that she shouldn't have said that had a
racial connotation to it because he's Latino, raw under extreme
provocation by a guy that's being a total jackass. But
the reality is is that I'm not going to get
in trouble for calling him a total jackass. But she's
going to get in trouble because she said the thing
about it. And it's just the way it is. Paul says,

(16:51):
all these Karen's looking they do all seem to look
they do all seem to look alike. I mean, part
of it is there are certain fashion trends you just
take and you know, the short kind of blonde hair
kind of look is just it's it is all over
the place and so on. And Paul said, she looks
like all the other Karens. Well, that might be an

(17:12):
even crueler thing to do than But again, like Karen
in the Philadelphia think was not provoked. This woman was
being provoked by a guy who was a jerk. And
you know, if you've Benet's and you know, I'm not
going to say that nobody Wisconsin does the same thing.
The Packers play out in Arizona on Sunday, and the
stadium is going to be filled with Packer fans and

(17:32):
always is out there in Phoenix, and probably some Packer
fans are going to be jerks about the whole thing.
And people get hacked off. And you take the bak
and bait and get involved in a fight, you can
get it into some trouble. But if you say something
that has a racial connotation to it, that's the sin
that you just can't get past. If someone captures it
on video, that's the other thing. If he isn't videoing it,

(17:54):
he knows exactly what he's doing. I didn't say you
who knows nothing's going to come of it. It's because
it was slapped on YouTube and people see it. There
are certain times in which the obnoxious saying it is

(18:15):
what it is or appropriate end. This is one of
those cases where it's appropriate to say it is what
it is. We have some degree of progress on something
I've been advocating for a long time. The problem of
reckless driving in Milwaukee is one that liberals simply do

(18:36):
not understand or don't know what to do about it
because they're just stupid. Liberals. You can't fix the problem
by issuing more citations. You can't fix the problem by
putting bumpbut curves in the middle of the street. You
can't fix the problem by putting in red light cameras.
The overwhelming majority of the people that are driving like

(18:57):
this do not have driver's licenses, and many of them
have unregistered vehicles. What I have said forever is the
only way you stop this is to tow the vehicles.
The to loots in Milwaukee charge approximately thirty nine trillion
dollars to release your views. Actually in the just under

(19:19):
five hundred. It's way up there, which is greater than
most fines are. Furthermore, the people who don't have a
license have zero written sentive to pay their fine because
there's no punishment in Milwaukee for not paying your fines.
The Milwaukee County jail will not accept someone on a
traffic ward, So if you have unpaid tickets, the jail

(19:40):
won't accept you, meaning you don't you just don't have
to pay. But if your car is gone. The only
people that weren't aren't affected by that are people who
are driving a stolen car. There is a proposal advancing
in the legislature to now tow vehicles that are being
driven recklessly. My concern is is that evers is going

(20:02):
to be to it. But notwithstanding that, it doesn't go
far enough. It shouldn't just be driven recklessly. There are
some states in which you are driving without a license,
it is a mandatory toe. There are states in which
if you're driving drunk, it's a mandatory toe. And most states,

(20:24):
if the car is unregistered, it's a mandatory toe. It's
kind of thing to have any of that as being mandatory.
It's discretionary. If you start towing vehicles of anyone without
a license, which is most of the people driving recklessly
and any vehicle that is unregistered, I believe, as I've

(20:45):
said in the past, solved the problem. Now in this instance,
it allows them to tow if the individual is charged
with reckless driving, which is a degree of this. The
problem is most of the running of the red lights
never as charged as reckless and so on. Hopefully ever
signs it, but then even then it then requires the

(21:07):
Milwaukee Police Department, another police agency, used to make it
a matter of policy to do it. The fact that
you have the ability to do it doesn't mean that
they will do it and until you start hauling these
cars away and forcing these people to somehow come up
with the four hundred dollars. And by the way, they
aren't going to do it fifteen times unless they are
a drug dealer or something of which they have unlimited
income of towing the cars that would work. There is

(21:29):
a current law that allows towing unlimited circumstances. This is
how little it is used. I believe it's been implemented
once in the city of Milwaukee. Now, some of you
don't know why the Democrats don't intend to do anything
about the government shutdown this week? Do you know why

(21:52):
you do not? You don't even know what's going on
on Saturday. You don't have no clue. I don't know
how many riots there are going to be. Saturday is
No King's Day. They're going to have these things all
over the United States. They'll be marches, some might I
don't know if they'll end up throwing rocks or whatever.

(22:13):
No King's Day, which is they don't really know exactly
what it is that they're bitching about Trump, but the
idea somehow is that Trump is a king. I guess,
you know, bringing peace to the Middle East is something
they don't want their king to do or whatever. No
kings day. So the Democrats are under this overwhelming pressure
from their left to not cave at all. From the

(22:33):
perspective of the Republicans, the Democrats are being hurt worse
by checks that are being delayed for federal employees, so forth,
and so on. But the Democrats have not changed their demands,
and among them is that we have to once again
provide free health care for illegal immigrants. And the Republicans

(22:55):
aren't going to bite on that. Speaker Mike Johnson has
a spectacular quote on this. I want to read it.
We won't sell out the long term security and future
of the United States so that Chuck Schumer can prevent
a primary challenge from his left wing. We will not
be a part of that nonsense. For those of you unaware,

(23:18):
Schumer is the Senate Democratic leader, it is very likely
that he's going to face a Democratic Party challenge next
year in the primary. It's likely to be AOC. If
AOC wants to be at some point of the future president,
she has to prove electability. And the way you prove
electability is to be elected senator from the second or

(23:39):
third whatever it is now in population largest state in
the United States. So if you take down the scalp
of Schumer, that puts her right there with Newsom in
terms of the Democratic Party pecking outer. We all know
that AOC is to the left of Schumer. Schumer is
trying to protect himself against his left flank. So as
the Democratic leader, he's not going to do any thing

(24:01):
to fashion an end to the shutdown because the radicals
in the Democratic Party want the shutdown because they simply
can't abide the fact that Trump is president. So as
Mike Johnson saying, from the perspective of the Republican's, okay, fine,
you actually chilled it over that we're not going to
cave into you forever and ever and ever. The Democrats

(24:24):
have demanded. They made the same demand when they were
in charge and the Republicans had to pass the bills
of the Congress. Give us a clean bill. Give us
a clean bill. We believe there should be a clean bill.
Don't add any new policy. So the Republicans passed the
clean bill. It just continues funding of everything as it is,
and the Democrats won't go along with it. And the
reason they don't want to go along with it is

(24:46):
they're trying to come up with some possible way to
fight with Trump over something. Now time for me to
explain something. It is kind of remarkable to me that
for all these years there are people who still don't
understand Trump. I mean, I think Trump's the easiest guy

(25:07):
in the world to understand. And I summarized it years ago.
I came up with this, He's his own good cop
bad cop. People have flummoxed over what's going on with China,
and I swear, if you listen to Trump, you'd think
that Trump was schizophrenic. He's talking on both sides of
his vote. They're about to have this trade discussion with
g and the next thing you know, g imposes a

(25:29):
one hundred percent tariff on rare earth minimals. The problem
with this is is that almost all rare earth minimals
come from China. You can't have AI, you can't have
anything without rare earth minimals. So Trump cancels the visit
and slaps a massive tariff of about one hundred percent
on everything from China, says, I don't know what's going
on over there, and then like eight hours later, I

(25:54):
got a great relationship with g So you've got that
and the markets are reacting. Do we have a trade
war with China or not? Or is Trump caving into China?
What's he doing? And again, I just I'm sorry. I
don't know how you can't understand what he's doing. This

(26:14):
has been Trump's m O forever. I'll use another analogy
for you. Do you remember Bobby Knight or is this
now all too dated for some of you that aren't
old enough. You remember Bobby Knight? Yeah? See that People
bring up the chair. It's like it was the only
thing he ever did. Bobby Knight baited referees. You want

(26:38):
a good YouTube reference, check out the Bobby Knight Ted
Valentine day. I was at the Miami Duke basketball game
in Miami this one. Ted Valentine was officiating. My jaw dropped.
I can't believe he's still refereeing. I mean, Bobby Knight
and Ted Valentine had their run in about thirty five
or forty years. I can't I don't know. Ted Valentine
must be one hundred and seventy five years old. He's
the most famous college basketball referee ever and always the

(27:01):
most controversial anyway, Ted Valentine would be the Bobby Knight
of referees, equally hot head and equally stuppern and the
two of them went at it, and it was just
anyway Bobby Knight worked the referees. He would berate them
and intimidate them in an attempt to get him to
give them the next call. That's all Trump does. The difference, though,

(27:24):
is the one thing Bobby Knight lacked in this is
that he didn't have the charm to do. The good
cop Knight would have been more effective, and a lot
of referees didn't want to give bobbyknit a call. Ever,
sometimes he did indeed intimidate them, but if you know,
push came to shove, they were going to screw him
because he was such a dank to them. Trump does both.

(27:47):
He kisses the rear end of these tyrants and then
in the next breath rips on them. He plays them
both ways. It's his style and it's incredibly effective. Look
what this I did. He got Net and Yahoo and
Harmas to both Buckle by both sweet talking Net and

(28:08):
Yahoo and then kicking him in the udo. What when
he continued to bomb Gaza after Trump told him not to,
and he did the same thing with Hamas. Likewise, you
don't hear Trump complaining at all. Then Hamas is still
out there on the street killing people, by the way,
and you don't hear anybody on the left objecting to this.

(28:30):
The people that Hamas is killing are Palestidians. There are
Palestinian militias, maybe better known as just gangs that see
this vacuum. Hamas is so beaten up that they're looking
to take over neighborhoods in Gaza, and Hamas doesn't want
that to happen, so they're grabbing these people and they're
shooting him in the head in the street. It's just
Palestinians killing Palestidians. It's Hamas trying to keep control of

(28:53):
Gaza by going after the non Hamas residence of Gaza.
As far as Trump concerned, this is not an international matter.
It's a matter of you know, what the people of
Gaza want. And the people of Gaza dug their own
grave when they empowered the monster from Hamas to rule
their area. And if they don't like it, they can
join these gangs and try to kill the leaders of
Hamas and get a different type of leadership in because

(29:15):
Hamas is never going to call another election there and
any of it. My point is is that Trump's not
gonna bitch about that because it's not Israel doing. It's
not an inertial thing, it's an internal Gaza thing. The
larger thing is is Israel killing members of Hamasa. They're
going in and bomba. No they're not, and have the
hostage has been released, Yes, we'll it hold. I don't know.

(29:36):
What I do know is that Trump, in this style
that he has, has managed to work this to the
level of success. And it just it kind of stuns
me that people never get what his mo O is,
even though it's just so obvious what his m O is.
You're listening to the Markdelling podcast. This is the Mark

(29:59):
Belling podcast Time Front Update. There's been this story that's
developed over the last several days over the refusal of
a local charter school, and we have to keep explaining
a charter school is a public school. It's not run
by public school systems, but it is a public school.

(30:20):
It's a government school. They have to follow all the
rules of public schools follow and all of their actions
have to be public. They're subject to the open records
law of the open meetings law and so on, but
they're not run by local school boards. This particular school
was chartered in Waukashaw County by the La Courre Tribe
of Northern Wisconsin. The reauthorization of the charter was done

(30:42):
by Waukashaw County, so Waukeshaw County Executive Paul Farrell is
essentially the charterer now currently of the school. He's the
government body. They have their own board. It's called the
Lake Country Classical Academy. From the beginning, they affiliated with
Hillsdale College, which is a very prominent conservative college in
Michigan that has developed a K through twelve curriculum that

(31:05):
basically says, we're everything that the stink bomb public schools aren't.
The board of directors is filled with Scott Walker types
and so on, and they've marketed themselves as a conservative institution.
A student, and by the way, she's going places anybody

(31:27):
willing to stand up to the leadership of her own school,
particularly when that leadership of that school is arrogant and unaccountable.
You get my credit there. It's real easy for a
lefty to stand up because everybody cheer leads her a
lot her name is Katie Smiley. She wants to start
a Turning Point chapter at her school. If you haven't

(31:50):
been paying any of dif first of all, to have
to explain to people the Turning Point is Charlie Kirk's group.
I just did so, therefore I don't have to do
it again. Since Early's assassination, young people across the country
have been just hell bent to see that his movement
doesn't die with him. Turning Point had lots of chapters

(32:11):
at schools and colleges before his assassination, but it has
more than double sense. And Katie Smiley tried to get
a Turning Point chapter at Lake Country Classical Academy and
has been obstructed. They rejected her application. The principal of
the school is a woman named Margaret Hagador. She is
the wife of Brian Hagaror in State Supreme Court Justice.

(32:34):
There's a board of directors. As I said at the school,
Turning Point drew attention to the fact that the charter
was rejected. There has been massive criticism now across the
country nationally at this school. There has been some attempt

(32:56):
by some members of the board to try to facilitate
a solution to this but as we speak right now,
it appears to me that they're getting not nowhere, but
virtually nowhere. The principal of the Cool Schools announced what
she said was a compromise. She said, we're going to
have a civics club. Well, whoopdie do. It's not a

(33:17):
turning point chapter, and the civics club would share many
of the same goals as turning point Again, whoopdie do.
A civics club administered by the school is not the
same as a turning point chapter, which embodies the ideals
that Charlie Kirk and his organization stand for. They had
a meeting of the board of directors last night. It

(33:38):
was covered by something Wisconsin right Now dot Com was
there and they reported on it, and they reported that
a number of the members of the board and the principal,
Margaret hagendor and basically lashed out at the people who
have been criticizing them. In particular, they said that we
need more communication, not conflict. Well, I want to comment
on that for a moment. That school has not responded

(34:02):
prior to five to twelve today to me at all.
If you want communication, start answering questions beyond that you
are a public school, you are accountable in the same
way that the Elmbrook School District is accountable. You're a
chartered school, but a public school. Just because you say

(34:28):
you have a rule, does it mean that others don't
have a right to criticize that rule. Secondly, when your
school is established by sucking up to conservatives for money
and getting endorsements of people like me, and then turning
around and telling us to shut up and leave us
alone as we drift off into moderate education, stinkfill. There's

(34:49):
nothing wrong with us reacting and giving you blowback. Don't
ask for your money. If you intend to be one
more leaning left kind of private type of school, well
you masquerade as something else. As I've said from the beginning,
there is a way to work through this. There always is, Sir,

(35:11):
Are you saying that we shouldn't follow the rules. That's
not a conservative thing. I've said my entire career that
following the rules is never your number one priority. Doing
the right thing is the number one priority. If the
rule is stupid, work your way through the rule. Learn
from the NFL on this. They change the rules thirty
eight times during the season. NASCAR changes the rules in
the middle of a race. The easiest thing to do

(35:32):
here is, as I've said, tell the kids they can
have a Turning Point chapter. They can use a school
room after school to do it. They can even use
an email. But it's independent. It's your thing, but you
simply use it. The example I used on an earlier
podcast is like sometimes you'll see a boy Scout troup

(35:53):
meeting a school or other kinds of groups. In other words,
allow them to work within the confines of the school
without being an official part of the school apparatus. Be it,
but be an organization that works within the school. It's semantics.
It would make everybody happy. It would allow Turning Point
that gets to call itself Turning Point have a chapter

(36:15):
at that school without being part of the school. It's
a way of nitpicking yourself to a solution. But they
haven't done that. And the reason that they don't want
to do that is I think there are some people
there who don't like the whole idea of Turning Point
and the fact that it's conservative. Again, you set yourself
up by affiliating with Hillsdale to be conservative. Margaret Hagendoron

(36:40):
did get back to me via email this afternoon saying
she doesn't understand why I'm saying she didn't communicate, And
I said, well, I left you a voice fail message
days ago, you never responded, and she said, I sent
you a statement. That's true. She sent out the same
statement that they sent to parents. It doesn't answer my questions.
I had numerous questions. So they're the board meeting last
night and then so like many people are very happy

(37:02):
about it. Got a quote here for this is on
Wisconsin right now from Katie Smile. He's a student. She
and her mother have been adamantly fighting for this, and
they are our heroes here. They're standing up to the
bullies within the school and some within the schools, and
they keep saying, this is doing great damage to our school. Well,
who's doing the great damage. You're the ones that said

(37:23):
turning point can't come in, which pisses off a lot
of us. We have a right to be hacked off
of you do something. If you did something, if you
decided to paint the school pink, we have a right
to be hacked off about that. You never seen a
pink school? If you ever have you ever seen a
pink school? There might be one. There might be one

(37:44):
somewhere of it. You don't see many pink structures that
really of anything. There's just all I just wasn't a
John Mellencamp little pink houses?

Speaker 4 (37:52):
Was it?

Speaker 3 (37:53):
That?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Him going on about that? Well? Where does he claim
these pink coases actually are? Is Indiana? They have pink houses?

Speaker 4 (37:59):
There?

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Is that what he's talking about in there? He apparently
has become a really cranky liberal he stormed off stage recently.
I mean, he must be one of these guys where
the pot just is wearing off on him and he's
in pain or something. Yeah, I mean he's just like
a crabby, mean old man. I digress, but I've spent
a career digressing. As I said on a quote a

(38:23):
couple of portions from Wisconsin right now story, I'll get
to Katie Smiley's comment. This is from Wisconsin right now.
They quote Brett Galashwski. He's the head of Turning Points
Chapters Organization. With my ask is Charlie's ask. The board
can make this happen and see Charlie's dream come through.
It's not a lot to ask, added Galashowski, a seventeen

(38:44):
year old stuent Nam. Katie Smiley wants to create the
Turning Point Club at the conservative school, Principal Margaret Hagutt
and the wife of State Supreme Court Justice Brian Hagut,
has rejected that request that announced she is creating a
generic civics club instead. Katie told Wisconsin Right Now that
she wants to start a Turning Point Club to help
her school thrive because she loves it so much. So,

(39:04):
in other words, this is somebody who likes her school
and realizes, unlike Hagadorn, that the school benefits from having
something like this, so I can clearly identify itself with
the principles of Charlie Kirk and not the principles of
all the crap that's screwing up education in America, which,
by the way, is the thing that makes Hillsdale itself
stand out. And they're the ones that claim they're Hillsdale affiliated.

(39:28):
The board it included a draft letter in its meeting
packet that would inform parents its policies were being revised
and would likely accommodate a Turning Point Club after Hugh
and cry resulted, but the board on Wednesday night scrap
that draft letter, and the board appears to be going
along with the Civics club, but what that will be
is very confusing to smiling her mom and other parents
who spoke after the meeting. Now, I spoke to Ellen Noak,

(39:50):
this is me no and not the story. I spoke
to Ellanoak, a board member, and she told me on Monday,
give us time and until Monday Wednesday, and we should
be able to work this out. They're not working it out.
Isn't going to be a Turning Point chapter affiliated independently
or not. There's instead going to be a Civics club
because this school and some of my guests, the lefty
parents who are sending their kids in there, because the
lefty parents realize the public schools also suck, don't want

(40:14):
anything to do with Charlie Kirk or Turning Point. So yeah,
if there's damage downe to the school, I say, good
fix the school. And if the problem is is that
you've got Haggard Ori in here who isn't willing to
do what many of us and many of the supporters
want to do, sobay it. And as for the board

(40:37):
of directors, stop expecting people like me to tell people
to support the school, and stop expecting people like me
to talk about the incredible movement of private and charter
schools we're seeing in southeastern Wisconsin that have formed and
rebellion to the general crap the public schools are producing.
The meeting was basically a ran session by Principal Margaret

(40:58):
Hangout and again, this is Wisconsin right now. I was
not there. The meeting is, however, on YouTube and some
board members against critics, at least the part that dealt
with the club issue. Some of the board members and
the principle went on a wholesale rant saying they have
been mistreated, lied about, and criticized. All right, if this
is a reference to me, I want to know one
thing I said that was a lie. Again, I'm working

(41:19):
with a lack of information because no one from that
board has forthcomingly come out and laid out and answered questions.
I have hit them with a big open records request
that I'm sure they're going to try to weasel around
and not have to deal with, none of which would
have been necessary if they would have been transparent in
the first place. About the whole thing. If your whole

(41:40):
thing is we don't want to have anything to do
with Charlie Kirk and turning point because we want control
of things that we don't want any say. So it admitted,
and we'll all know that your school is just another
piece of crab school out there that doesn't get consider
conservative ideology or the principles of Turning Point to be
worth anything. Which is I suspect what the whole problem
here is, but they don't want to say. And if

(42:01):
it isn't the whole problem here, establish a chapter and
figure out a way to do it. They basically planted
themselves as the victims of critics. This is again Jessic
McBride of Wisconsin Right Now reporting without giving specifics on
the supposed misinformation. They called for people to have conversations
rather than communicating online. Katie's quest to start the Turning

(42:23):
Point Club has gone viral, with many people offering her
support on social media and criticize the school's decision, although
there is some disagreement among parents about the direction the
school should take. Well, if that's the case, let the
parents who want to have a lefty school, who have
their lefty school, but take Hillsdale's name off of it,
and stop trying to apply to people that you're conservative
by putting Hillsdale's name on it. You are screaming we

(42:45):
are conservative school. If you're not, then stop killing everybody
you are. However, Hagadorn did not ask answer two requests
for comment by email and voicemail, at least to Wisconsin
right now before our stories ran and Melissa Smiley, the
mom of Katie Smiley, the teen who wants to start
the Turning Point club at the school, alleges that Margaret

(43:07):
Falseley told Fox News that she had spoken to Katie
and her mom about the club. They said she did not.
Haggard Wold alleged that she had been the victim of
a public media campaign to attack me personally, lie about me,
and destroy my reputation. Again, if that's a reference to
me or anything that I've said, I want to know
what it was. What is it? She has every right

(43:29):
to run a school and say no to Turning Point,
and anybody who doesn't like that has every right to
point out that you called yourself conservative when you started it,
and there are zillions of lefty schools across the country
that have allowed Turning Point. Thirdly, you're a public school.
You may be a charter school, correct, it's a hybrid,
but your public school anyway, we have rules against outside organizations.

(43:53):
I know where they have those rules. It's to stop
every kind of lefty LGBTQ plus club at all of that.
So you figure out a way to work within the
confines of this. It's just all I've suggested. Another board
member called the criticism disturbing and disappointing, and official said
school leaders were tried and convicted. By the way, the

(44:14):
only board member that spoke to me was Illadoak. None
others even reached out to me. So I don't know
what their problem is other than they don't think that
they should be subject to any kind of criticism, even
though anybody with half a brain or a sense of
public relations would have understood that there is a mission

(44:36):
among many conservative young people in America to keep Charlie
Kirk's vision alive, and they trying to snuff it out
at this school, a school that purports to be conservative.
If you don't think that's going to create a backlash,
it means you're blinded by your own leftyism. I did,
by the way, speak via email to Scott Walker, former governor.
He is listed as an honorary member of the board.

(45:00):
As said allowed and in print that there should be
a chapter for Turning Point. There just that there should
be a chapter for his organization, Young America's the Young
America's Foundation, which is another conservative organization at these schools
if they want them. No, he's an honorary board member.
I don't know if he has any particular poll here.

(45:20):
I think it would help if he and other conservatives
slam this school even harder so they buckle. We all
know the kind of pressure that comes to the left,
and I think we can kind of suspect the pressure
and where it is coming from here and why it
is that they don't want to do this. As for
Hillsdale itself, if Hillsdale is going to charter schools and

(45:40):
then say that those schools can't have anything to do
with Turning Point, then Hillsdale needs to reconsider its mission
as well. The students got far less mention on the
draft letter. The board decided to bypass that item on
the agenda because the situation has changed, and scrapped it
for the aforementioned but ill divined vague Civics club. Can
you imagine this civics club? Can you just imagine the

(46:01):
civics club that they have? Can you just imagine the
civics club turning point isn't a civics club. It's an
advocacy organization. And that's the thing they have a problem
with because of what they advocate. And that's the entire
problem here. If you are uncomfortable with a conservative organization

(46:23):
as an advocacy group having a club or a chapter
at the school, it's because you're not conservative. So don't
say you are, and just admit you're not. Admit you're.
One more thing. I keep going on about this conservative
drift of organizations, and this just screams out to me
as being among them. I want to get to the

(46:45):
quote from your one parent. Andrea Hayes slammed the administration.
She said she took her kids out of the school
even though she loves its mission and wants to thrive.
She accused Margaret that's Margaret Hagadorn of disbanding a previous
civics club that was popular with students and parents without

(47:06):
proper communication. She said the past civics club was ended
abruptly by administration without ever, without even basic respect or
any conversation. She said other in house clubs were systematically
disbanded and alleged that there is a pattern of dismissive
or controlling behavior that is on full repeat right now.
She said. It is not one issue, but rather a
pattern of control at all costs that extends back years,

(47:29):
not the past five days. Another parent precis Zundel I
hope I proNT that correctly. Where's concerns about declines in
enrollment and limited extracurricular offerings. He said, some parents are
talking about whether they will keep their kids here. It's
not because they don't believe in the school's mission. They
fervently do. They're worried about extracurricular and leadership opportunities for kids.

(47:51):
They don't want kids to have to choose between college
opportunities and a classical education. Both parents and others afterwards
of the Turning Point Club is not the entire issue.
It's not about the past five days that the board
and Margaret Hagarin focused on, but rather systemic pattern of
long standing concerns about the leadership of a school they love.
They also express confusion afterwards about what the new Civics

(48:12):
Club is supposed to entail and to what degree, if any,
it will follow Turning Point materials or mission. Afterwards, Katie
Smiley that's the seventeen year old girl that I think
is heroic Curan standing up, don't you? We're all for
We had a couple of others. This goes back a
long ways of young people from Maria stood up in things,

(48:33):
and now I see them being interviewed on Megan Kelly's podcast,
running organizations and so on. I take full credit for this.
I think I've helped them part backbone in them, don't you.
I am part of it exactly. Yeah, that's well turning
punt to be part of the Civics to her anyway.
Katie Smiley told wr in that Wisconsin Right Now that

(48:54):
she believes keeping Charlie Kirk in the club will have
more meaning and emotional impact on students than just the
generic Civics club. I think that's why they're against it.
She stressed that she loves her school and is just
trying to build it. She will be featured on Fox
and Friends tomorrow, but said if administrators are going to
die on this hill, she will try to work within

(49:16):
they're required. You see what they've managed to do. Now
they've managed to put this kid on Fox and Friends
and have all of this. You think somebody would teach
them a little bit of crisis manage. It wouldn't you.
If anybody's ended up damaging it's them. Let them have
their damn club and just figure out a way to
do it within the context of not having to allow

(49:37):
every other stupid lefty club to come in. If you
can't figure out how to do that, don't start at
school and claim your conservative and I part of this
goes back to the whole notion of making this a
charter school and not simply an outright private school. There
are advantages financially to being a charter school, and one
of the downsides of it for them is it also

(49:58):
now means that they're subject to scrutiny because a charter
school is a government operation, even though it may be
privately run. It is a quasi government operation, and they're
accountable to anybody who wants to shoot off their big mouth,
including me with my big mouth. I want to move
to another topic here quickly. By the way, we have

(50:19):
a quote of the day that I'm going to share.
Let me get to this first. Barton swam Wall Street Journal,
The Wall Street Journalist not they're barely conservative anymore. On
the editorial page and they're not pro Trump, but occasionally
some of the people who don't much like Trump will
write a piece that at least explains it. And Barton
Swain's point here is, for all this lefty stuff that

(50:40):
Trump is an attack on democracy. In fact, Trump personifies democracy.
I don't think you can find a more pro democracy
figure in America than Donald Trump. A. He's premised his
policies on things that people want. B. He was elected
by a majority vote of the popular vote and the
Electoral College. So anyway, Barton Swain rights, you could make

(51:04):
a reasonable You could make a reasonable case. The democrats
present woes stem from the misuse of a single word.
Their manic, unthinking resistance to everything President Trump says or
does has its origins in their failure to know what
they mean by democracy. In the fall of twenty fifteen,
democrats in the media settled on the claim that Trump's
unlikely candidacy was an attack on democracy or a threat

(51:27):
to democracy. The phrase fizzled after he won with a
plurality of the popular vote in twenty twenty four, but
Trump's bitterest enemies have never managed to doubt the postulate
that he menaces the American form of government that might
have spared themselves a decade of angst, or at least
found a better way to oppose him if they had

(51:48):
recalled that America's founders disliked democracy, just that That's one
of the things people just did not understand about the
founding fathers. They were not fans of democracy. They created
a republic. We have morphed into a republic whose leaders
are chosen via democracy. People give debinton, are we republic

(52:08):
or a democracy? We're republic. We're republic, though that is
governed via democracy. Back to the point, they might have
spared themselves a decative answers to a republic too given
to democracy they thought would allow big personalities to leverage
the public's irascibility against established order. James Madison memorably concluded

(52:29):
in Federalists Number ten that democracies ever have ever been
spectacles of turbulence and contention. The American polity long ago
decided to take that worry less seriously than the founders did.
Popular elections, not machine bosses, and legislatures choose party nominees
and US senators. Progressives of an earlier gave us these

(52:51):
and other democratic reforms when their political descendants, today's liberals
and progressives gnashed their teeth over Trump. The unknowingly can
see that the founders had a point. His point here
is that these lefties they're not defending democracy. They're opposing democracy.
They're opposing the fact that Trump was democratically elected. So

(53:14):
they went they're using the wrong word here because democracy
sounds popular. But they're clearly trying to object to the
notion of democracy, and object to the notion that the
public gets to decide things and not experts. This at
anyway back to the peace. A decade after his entry
into politics, Trump's enemies still make no attempt to distinguish
between his own popularity or lack of it, and that

(53:37):
of the objectives to which he applies his energy. Most Americans,
the number hovers around fifty five percent, disapprove of Trump
and don't like the way he goes about things. It
doesn't follow that majorities think he's wrong about those things.
The opposite is nearer the truth. On nearly all his
big ticket items, the president's attitude fully accords with that

(53:57):
of the public. Trump's war on elite universities has occasioned
cogent criticisms, some made by this newspaper's editorial board. But
ignore Trump and his tactics and ask yourself how many
Americans think the country's fanciest schools are an unmitigated blessing
and don't deserve some rough treatment for turning generations of
young minds into oatmeal. By the way, this goes back,

(54:21):
I think to the whole point of Lake Countie Classical,
Lake Country Classical Academy and the attempt to not be
that type of an institution, and the type of institution
that instead Foster's thought and dialogue, the kind the turning
point was pressing for rather than the kind of top
down and this is a Civics class that I'm going
to give you, according to the Gospel of Margaret Hagador. Anyway,

(54:44):
back to the piece, the compact his administration wants universities
to sign would get an eager thumbs up from I
would guess ninety percent of the public. This document, if agreed,
would obligate universities to foreswear in consideration of rap and sex,
and admissions cap the number of foreign students they accept,
freeze tuition for five years, use standardized test scores at admissions,

(55:07):
and foster viewpoint diversity problems may lurk in the details,
but the aims are controversial only to people need to
get out, only to people who need to get out
more that ice or immigration to customs enforcement pushes the
bounds of legal gality in its no knock roundups is
pretty obvious, but Democrats align themselves with a tiny minority

(55:27):
when they with their denunciations of Trump, make them sound
as if they think illegal aliens have the right to
live and work in the United States as long as
they don't kill people. It is a safe conjecture that
if the Democrats take the House in twenty twenty six,
they will impeach Trump. What four a common guess his
command on at least five occasions so far to pulverize

(55:50):
boats to deemed by intelligence officials to be ferrying narcotics
into the US. The policy, in the end may invite
successful legal challenge. Before drawing up articles of impeachment, Democrats
may wish to ask a few average Americans what they think.
The point that they make is just about every American
thinks it's perfectly fine to blow up a bode of

(56:11):
drug smuggle. It's bringing drugs into the United States, and
the Democrats worried about the niceties of this, again, don't
understand democracy. Most of us think, if they're hauling in,
you know, boatloads of fentanyl and everything else into the
United States and we blow that boat up, that's a
good thing that we don't think you have a particular
unfettered right to come into the United States with boatloads

(56:31):
and drugs. Back to the peace. Democrats are sometimes right
to fulminate against the President for his decisions strong arming
private companies, telling pregnant women not to take tyl and
all slapping one hundred thousand dollars fee on h one
B applications, but many of Trump's preoccupations aren't of this sort.
I sometimes wonder, this is Martin Swain if the president's
turbulence in pursuit of his aims is meant to tempt

(56:51):
his adversaries into denouncing both the turbulence and the aims
and thus sound ridiculous. By the way, that is Trump's. Again,
I talk about earlier the Dodger fan who baited the
Brewer fan and is saying the thing, this is what
Trump does by doing things in the style that he does.
The lefties take the bait, and not only rip Trump

(57:13):
for the style, but they rip Trump for the substance,
and that's the substance in which almost everybody agrees with
him on Back to the piece. Has often badly expressed
belief that American cities tolerate too much crime. Has on
an educated guest eighty percent of the public behind it,
But many of his enemies seem to think that they
must choose between quelling violence with troops and denying the

(57:34):
existence of urban crime. If Democrats want to stop making
themselves abhorrent to the public, they will have to think
the unthinkable. That Trump is a democratic expression of the
American character, not the only or the finest expression, but
an authentic one. He decreed an overhaul of the Smithsonian
Institution because he knows what the electorate knows that America

(57:55):
is basically good. Even his quote weaponization of the Justice
Department to use the word the press forgot during Joe
Biden's presidency has a rough democratic rationale. Do unto others
who what was done to you and call it Even
Trump doesn't threaten democracy for good and ill, he has
a consequence of it. Martin Swain in the Wall Street Journal,

(58:16):
I know this a quote of the day. We're not
gonna play it. I'm just going to read it for you. Now,
you all know that Kamala Harris is trying to do
this book tour. It's better, it's better disaster. I mean
she can't. I honestly think Judge Joe Brown had it right.

(58:37):
We played this quote back in twenty twenty four in
the show He's the TV judge Joe Brown's half nuts himself,
but he says Kamala Harris is in early onset dementia.
I honestly think that's daddy. There's no way she was
this inarticulate when she was thirty years old. It just
thinks she can't be anyway. She was on Kara Swisher's podcast.

(58:58):
If you don't know what Kara Swisher is like, she's
the left's version of a successful podcast. It isn't that successful,
but it's like one of the better ones they have.
Kamala Harris said she may have been the most qualified
presidential candidate ever. No, there's actually aside from how laughable

(59:22):
that all is, there's actually a teaching moment in this.
In Kamala's mind, addled as it is, she counts resume
and she's had gigs. You know, she's the Attorney general
of California's a senator of the United States, a vice
president of the United States. Rather than ability. It's a

(59:50):
huge distinction in our world. It's one of the things
that led to all of these utter incompetence using DEI
to move themselves up the ladder. Okay, they had all
these things in their resume. Having done all these things
may or may not be indicative of whether or not
you'll be any good at something. It's a big story

(01:00:15):
in the athletic recently about the folly in the NFL
of hiring the hot offensive coordinator or the quarterback whisperer.
The Titans just fired. You know, Brian Kelly. I worked
with Joe Burrow, he worked with this guy, He worked
with that guy, never seeming to consider that maybe the
reason that those teams offenses were successful and the quarterbacks

(01:00:36):
were good is that the quarterbacks were good and the
coordinator merely was working with them. You're listening to the
Mark Belling podcast. This is the Mark Belling Podcast, and
this is always the case. On the Thursday podcast, we
end with our weekly football preview and some point spread picks,
and as always I'm joined by Mike murletta of American

(01:00:57):
sports analysts in Madison. Their website is ASA wins dot com.
I understand you've got a special offer you'd like to
tell all of my listeners about, Mike, what is it?

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
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every package on there from tonight through Sunday is thirty
five percent off if you use the coupon code mark

(01:01:32):
MRK thirty five three five at checkout, Mark thirty five
at checkout, get you thirty five percent off all of
our stuff. Our weekend package are six star plays. There's
other handicappers that are on there that are all very solid,
so that I'll get you thirty five percent off Mark
thirty five.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
All right, now, people have to remember this because we're
not doing a live talk sho. If you try to
call up and ask what that thing is, nobody's going
to know what the answer is, Mark thirty five. Now
Paul's thinking he named that because of the per set off.
That's he clearly is using my age there. All right,
let's get going with today's football preview. I think we

(01:02:09):
have to start with the situation with Wisconsin. Everything with
Wisconsin football program right now just seems to me to
be a tobacco. They have an unbelievably brutal schedule. They
play Ohio State at home this week, They've got Oregon
next week. The offense appears to be non existent. The

(01:02:31):
fan base seems to have given up on the program.
The head coach, Luke Fickle, who was as highly touted
as any possible coach you could hire, seems lost. I
don't even know necessarily where to start. Assuming that they
lose to Ohio State and by a lot of points,
what do they do, Mike? Do they fire Fickle? What

(01:02:53):
do they do? What's the answer here? Because I think
no one really expected, even people who thought maybe this
won't work, never thought it could get to be the
mess that it is. What are your thoughts on the
Wisconsin program? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
I was a ficklebacker. Obviously everyone was.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
When he was hired, he was everybody was, everybody was.

Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
It looked like a great hire. But he's just you know,
they've regressed every year. They went from seven to six
to five and seven and two and ten or three
and nine this year, so showing no improvement. I don't
think they can keep them. I mean, he's got a
big buyout, twenty five ish million. I don't think they
can keep them. I don't think he'll last a season.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
He might last to the next two games Ohio State Oregon,
and then they have a buye. You know, if you're
gonna do it, maybe then let the interim have a
couple of weeks to work with the team. So they're
not winning the next two games, so that doesn't matter
who they bring, you know who who takes over for them.
You mentioned their offense, Mark, I mean they're averaging they're

(01:03:54):
averaging less than seven points per game in the Big Ten.
In the last four games against FBSIPO, they've had forty
five offensive possessions, scored three offensive touchdowns their team total
this week. And they're playing the best defense in the
country this year. So you can wager sides totals. And
there's also.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
What's the prop on the Padrews being shut out? Seriously, Well,
I think I don't think they'll score.

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
No, their team total is six and a half points.
Oh under, that's their team total.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
I mean, unless there's a pick six, I don't know
how they get over that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:27):
I agree. Ohio State's given up eight points per game
this season. I'm guessing Wisconsin gets shut out two weeks in.
I just don't see him scoring this weekend. So we'll see.
But I think they're going to have to make a move,
and it's probably going to be before the end of
the season, I would guess, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
And I don't think firing the coach in the little
of the season does any good. On the other hand,
you're almost, you know, torturing Fickled by sending him out
there to get pounded every week. I mean, things can
always turn around. There's just no sign of it. In
the meantime, fans are just more impatient than ever. I mean,
when you step back a moment, the Penn State firing

(01:05:06):
of James Franklin seems shocking now. Admittedly they're coming off
a terrible three game stretch. They once again lost to
a top team they can't he can't be good teams
over there, but then lost to inferior teams two weeks
in a row. And appear to be reeling. On the
other hand, you know, teams have bad years every now

(01:05:27):
and then. Franklin has had Penn State in the top
ten pretty much as long as he's been there. It
seems almost impossible that the next coach, unless the next
coach wins a national championship, he can't do better than Franklin.
So we're in a situation in which, you know, the
if you stumble at all a little bit at any point,

(01:05:50):
it's let's fire you. So that's the environment that Fickle
and all of these coaches are in. I think Penn
State is nuts in getting rid of Franklin. I think
that they should simply swallow it. They're gonna have a
bad season, a disappointing season here, and stick with the guy,
because I don't know who they would hire, who they
would expect would do much better.

Speaker 4 (01:06:09):
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, Franklin's record at Penn
State is one hundred and four and forty five and
he got canned three weeks ago. Just put in perspective,
three weeks ago, they were the number three team in
the country. They led Oregon in overtime, they win that game,
and there's a chance they they are number two, and
they have an argument for number one at that point.

(01:06:29):
The problem is, of course he's done terrible against good teams,
and then the last two weeks they were twenty there
were more than twenty point favorites against ucl In Northwestern
lost both. That's the first team that's ever happened to
him thirty years.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Oh, Undeniably, the wheels have fallen off. My point is
it would seem as though if you take a look
at the big picture and where you're going from here,
you're still better off with him coming off of this
bad season than starting over with somebody else having half
the team transfer and you're not going to get anybody
with a better resume than Franklin. But that's the environment

(01:07:06):
that Wisconsin is in. I mean, you go back in
early in Barry Alvarez his career after the first Rose Bowl,
they stumbled in the mid nineties before they went to
the next two. I think they had two big ten
losing seasons in a row in this environment. I think
that Barry Alvarez could have been fired before he went
on and got to the second and the third Rose Ball,
all of which of course that he won. There's just

(01:07:29):
like no sense I think at all of anybody looking
at the big picture, and I get the whole thing
with nil and college sports and so on, but it
just seems to be almost a crazed situation that's going
on with coaches, notwithstanding the fickle thing. I mean, unless

(01:07:49):
he somehow pulls a rabbit out of his hat, there's
just no indication that it's working at all, even though
I think people would have thought that it would work.
With regard, I think we've pretty much covered the Ohio
State game. I'm actually surprise, Mike that the Badges are
only a twenty five point underdog. They lost by thirty
seven points to Iowa, and I think Ohio State's twenty
points better than Iowa. In my mind, the line should

(01:08:09):
be forty two, don't you.

Speaker 4 (01:08:12):
Yeah. Well, the interesting thing in this line is it
opened twenty seven and a half and it's moved down
to twenty five ish. When it opened at twenty seven
and a half, that's the highest point spread in the
history of the Ohio State Wisconsin game, home or away.
That's the highest point since nineteen eighty, the biggest point
spread Wisconsin's ever taken as a dog against Ohio State

(01:08:33):
at home. Prior to this was twenty one, so it's
a huge line. But I don't disagree with you. I
don't thinkco Wisconsin might not score, so Ohio State's got
to get to twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Yeah, I mean, the only thought is that Wisconsin, you know,
emotion fired up, yet you know, pride kicks in. But
my retort to that is if that was going to happen,
it would have been last week, correct, and not this week.
I mean, I'm getting vibes that neither of the top
two quarterbacks wants to play for the remainder of the
season because they both want a red shirt. That the

(01:09:05):
reason that O'Brien didn't go back into the game last
week is he doesn't want to. I'm hearing that I
don't know if it's true, and that Billy Edwards has
said that I'm medical red shirting. I don't know if
any of that stuff is true. But when things are
falling apart, you know, there's all sorts of leaks, most
of which aren't true. But the entire vibe that's coming
out of Madison is awful, and I just suspect that

(01:09:27):
it's going to be a sad situation. I just think
people are going to be booing like crazy, and it's
just it's all bad. At one other college game. There
are quite a few interesting ones, but I cherry picked
out one that I think is really intriguing because it's
both a big game and a sur rivalry game. Utah
plays BYU. They're both in the Big Twelve. The Big

(01:09:47):
Twelve is not very good this year, and Utah and
BYU are at the top of the league. They're from
the same state. Utah is always good and under the
current coach Tataki, BYU has gotten to be really good.
I believe BYU is unbeaten and Utah has a loss,
yet Utah has favored in this in state game. So
I just think it's an interesting game. I think it's

(01:10:09):
interesting that these two schools kind of in the middle
of nowhere have built long standing, you know, powerhouse status
really and it's such an important game in addition to
the fact that they're just they're huge rivals out there.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
Yeah, and it's two teams not a lot of people
talk about. But like you said, those teas because.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
They're from Utah, But I mean that's the only raison
they're from Utah on one's a Mormon school, that people
can't figure out. And the others of state that state
of Utah is about is anonymous the states you can imagine.
But I mean as long as Winningham has been there,
they've been a strong football team.

Speaker 4 (01:10:43):
Yeah, and they've got one loss between them, and that
was Utah against Texas Tech, who's probably a top five
team in the country.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
That just Tech is way better than people think. And
they are proof that you can indeed use nil to
buy a team. That's what they've did.

Speaker 4 (01:10:58):
That's what they did. I mean, that was our top
that was our six star play last week with Texas
Tech over Kansas and it won easily. And Texas Tech
lost their quarterback in the first first half in that
game too. But anyway back to this game, so two
top thirty offenses, two top twenty defenses by US one
the last two. But prior to that, Utah had won
nine straight. It is interesting that Utah's favored on the

(01:11:19):
road and they're the team with a loss. This is
an underdog series if you like, you know a lot
of times these type of series are underdog series. The
dog is covered twenty one of the last twenty eight
back to nineteen ninety three and now You're getting a
home underdog here, so that would probably we're not going
to use the game, But I don't think I could
lay points on the road in this type of series.
It's just it's probably going to be a close game

(01:11:40):
down to the layer.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Let's turn our attention to the NFL, the Packers and
the Cardinals. This is a curious game too. The Packers,
to me, to the eye test, don't look good at
all Arizona. In the meantime, the whole team is banged up.
We don't know. I don't think we know at this
point if Murray is going to play. It looks like
Harrison Junior is in the cushion protocol that he may
not play. And it's not really a home game for Arizona.

(01:12:04):
That place is going to be packed with Packer fans.
It always is when Green Bay plays out in Arizona.
Yet the Packers are favored by six and a half.
In Day Boy, they struggled, at least to the eye test,
they struggled against Cincinnati, and Arizona's way better than Cincinnati.
What do you make of this game? And should the
Packers be favored by nearly a touchdown even with injuries
to Arizona.

Speaker 4 (01:12:25):
Yeah, I think it's a little bit high. You know,
if I'm Arizona after last week, I'd rather have Brissett
a quarterback anyway. The way he played last week, they
had four hundred yards twenty seven points. Last week they
lost by four at Indianapolis. That's the most yardage they've
had this year. In fact, with Murray at quarterback, and
four of their first five games they didn't even get
to three hundred yards. And they had four hundred yards

(01:12:46):
last week and Brissett through for three hundred and twenty yards.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Does that seem like Kyler Murray is a guy whose
rookie season was his best year.

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
Yeah, yeah, don't. I don't think he's a great quarterback.
I think he's okay. I think he's middle of the
pack average. And that's just the way I agree with you.
On green Bay last week, I was shocked the Bengals
scored eighteen points in that game, all in the second
half with Flacco had barely been with the team. Their
playbick was limited, and they were moving the ball decent
the second half. I wasn't impressed with green Bay last week.

(01:13:14):
Even though they won, they outgained them pretty badly. But
one thing about Arizona. All their games are close. Every game.
All six games they're two and four. All six games
been decided by seven points or less. And here's a
big thing about Green Bay mark they have two takeaways
this year on defense, the Jets only have one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
I mean, what happened to Xavier McKinney missed the interception?
I mean I didn't even see it. I mean I
see him running, I see the number, I see him
running a round note there, but I never see him
involved in any plays. I mean he seems to have
vanished from the defense.

Speaker 4 (01:13:46):
Yeah, and turnover margins such a huge thing. They're lucky
they only have three turnovers this year. Otherwise they wouldn't
have a three to one in one record because they're
not taking the ball away. They have to change that soon.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
I think one other game in the NFL, and again
there's a lot of interesting ones, but the one I
grabbed is the Eagles and the Vikings Philadelphia. You know,
super Bowl losers usually fall apart the following season. Kansas
City isn't, but the Eagles of the Super Bowl winner,
and they've looked really bad in several games. And then

(01:14:18):
there's the Vikings, who they don't know who their quarterbacks
should be. Should it be McCarthy, should it be Carson
Wentz who's just been bloffer his entire career. Not good,
not bad. They don't have much offense somehow Philadelphia doesn't
have much offense at all. But they're both clearly still
good teams. Again, I throw the game up because I'm
not sure what to make of it. What do you

(01:14:38):
make of it?

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
Yeah, I mean Philadelphia open in a two and a
half point favorites down to one and a half. Philadelphia's
four and two, they can easily be two and four.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
This year they're four and two, and they look like
they're one and five again the eye tests. They just
don't look very good.

Speaker 4 (01:14:53):
No, we've been fading for Philadelphia the last few weeks.
With the Rams a few weeks ago, we know how
that turned out, and then Denver a couple of weeks ago,
we got that win. They're just not very good this year.
Their offense stinks. They ranked twenty six. They're lower and
pretty much every offensive category and the one thing that's
just crazy about this team this year. Last year, they

(01:15:13):
averaged one hundred and eighty four yards per game. Rushing
second in the NFL, five yards per carry fourth. This year,
they're averaging ninety five yards per game rushing and three
point five yards per carry. Barkley is on pace for
nine hundred yards this year, and he had over two
thousand last year. They can't run the ball, which is crazy.
The one thing I do like, I like Minnesota a

(01:15:35):
little bit in this game as an underdog. They're coming
off two games in Europe, but they had a bye
last week, and they they've got a really good defense,
and they're really good as an underdog. Just going back
to like twenty twelve, they're twenty two to ten as
a home dog. All the way back to nineteen eighty,
they're fifty one and thirty five as a home dog.
They're just good as a home dog. And I think

(01:15:56):
the Eagles are vastly overrated. It's gonna be WinCE McCarthy's
still a few weeks out from what we heard, so
it's going to be once again, and I think Minnesota's
a really good chance to win that game.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
Okay, it's time for some point spread precks. An before
we get to this week, let's see how things worked
out last week. Michael got off to a terrible start.
He's on a run. He won again two in a row. Mike,
you had the Seattle over Jacksonville, which that turned out
to a pretty good pick. At the time we did
our show. Seattle was actually still an underdog in the game,
and they beat the Jaguars by eight points, so that

(01:16:26):
was a win. Paul took Washington by five points over
the Bears, and the Bears won the game. Here's the
weird thing on the Bears. They have won two games
in a row by the same score of twenty five
to twenty four. You might not have another twenty five
to twenty four final in the NFL all year. And
the Bears have won by that exact score two weeks
in a row. And I kind of thought I'd lose

(01:16:47):
last week, but almost won, but I didn't win. I
took East Carolina six and a half on the underdog
against Tulane and they lost by seven in the last
minute of the game, twenty six to nineteen. So Mike
got a win, and Paul and I yeah, you and
you and you and Mike Paul are tied for second place.
I remember there's only three of us this year, so

(01:17:07):
second place. Both sounds good and bad. All right, that's
where we were. Let's get some little disorganized here, but
I'll get myself together any second. No, Paul, you get
to go first point spreads for this weekend's games. He's
gonna start with the Giants at the Broncos. All right,

(01:17:31):
here it is that game's in Denver, Denver favored by seven,
the Vikings and the Eagles. That one's moved. We use
scores and odds and I just credited and what they
have as the line is Eagles by one and a half.
That's gone down and it might continue to go down.

(01:17:53):
But at the moment we do this, Philadelphia on the
road is favored by one and a half. Paul is
going to take the Vikings. I agree with you. You
can look at three things. You can look at records,
you can look at stats. You can look at the eyeballs,
and in particularly the eyeballs. To me, Philadelphia doesn't look
any good. That can change. Teams change on a dime.

(01:18:16):
But I agree with Paul on this. Paul, you just
said all the reasons Mike mentioned. We would have Mike
discuss it again because we just went through the game.
Is there a reason the home field advantage he cites. Yeah,
I just I just no, Carson Wentz isn't bad. He's
as I said, he's blah, he's exactly black. Carson Wentz

(01:18:37):
is if you created a generic NFL quarterback, that that's
what he is. I think he's Yeah, he's in that category.
All right, that's Paul's pick. He takes the Vikings to
either win or lose by one or less. Mike, where
do you want to go?

Speaker 4 (01:18:52):
Let's let's first just check the line on the game.
We talked about Ohio State Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
Yeah, yes, I saw it's twenty five and a half.
To dig it up. I think it's somewhere for the end,
isn't it? Three?

Speaker 4 (01:19:09):
Is the game there?

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
Yeah? Twenty five and a half Ohio State on the road.

Speaker 4 (01:19:18):
Yeah, I'm going to take Ohio State. I hate going
against Wisconsin, but I've watched them every game this year,
and we talked about it. They're gonna they might not
score in the game. And actually, if they got to seven,
I'd be shocked. So Ohio State gets to twenty seven,
they might cover. If they get to the mid thirties,
I think they cover for sure, and maybe the mid
thirties and pretty much every game except Texas.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
I just you know, Scott's defense has been decent this year,
but they gave up thirty seven to Iowa, and Ohio
State's offense is better than Iowa's and the defenses, if anything,
are comparable. Ohio State's probably better. I just think there's
no reason to disagree with that pick, and I agree
with it as well. And I thought about using that game.
I'm going to take a game instead in the NFL.

(01:20:02):
I'm going to let me get the correct points spread
on my game here. It's a good one. Yeah. The
weird thing is it's going down, which surprises me. The
Saints at the Bears. The Bears are favored before and
a half at home, and I know the Bears keep
winning by one point. I think they're going to win

(01:20:24):
by five or more. New Orleans has turned out to
be not as putrid as people thought that they were
going to be. But the Bears are just improving. I mean,
the Ben Johnson offense with Caleb Williams at quarterback is
starting to work. They just outplayed Washington. They're scoring a
lot of points. Their defense isn't bad. New Orleans. You

(01:20:45):
know they're lost to New England doesn't look that bad
because New England might be the most improved team in
the NFL this year. I just think that there's a
significant difference between the two, and I think that the
Bears are an ascended team right now, as we all
kind of feared that they would be. I probably knows
why this is, but that line was five and a half.
That it was five and no, I was I just glanced.
We just prended this off, and again we use a

(01:21:06):
consensus service, it says four and a half. Is there
any reason that I'm not aware of as to why
action seems to be moving toward New Orleans? Because I
think that the Bears can win this game by ten or.

Speaker 4 (01:21:18):
More just money, and there's no there's no injuries or anything.
I think it's the fact that, you know, Chicago's been
an underdog in every game this year, and all of
a sudden their favorite by almost touchdown. New Orleans has
played every team fairly close, with the exception of at Seattle.
People are nervous Land that much with Chicago, would be

(01:21:39):
my guest. The money is coming in on New Orleans
for sure in this game right now, So that's why
the line's dropping. I don't. I don't like the game
either way. I'd be nervous land money with Chicago. But
New Orleans has played you know, they've played pretty good
at home. They've had a they've had one stinker on
the road, but they've been better than most people think.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
That's what I said, that they're not as bad as
people thought. People thought they might be the worst team
in the NFL. But just because they're better than people think,
I don't think means that they're good. I don't think
that they're very good. I also think, you know, perceptions.
The Bears lost in Week two to Detroit and gave
up fifty two points, and it looked like, oh, here
we go. But the fact of the matter is since

(01:22:19):
that game, they've been very good. They came back the
following week and beat Dallas thirty one to fourteen. If
you know any about Dallas, they're not a very good team,
but they have a great offense. They held into fourteen,
and then they went off on this winning streak, the
weird one with a by wrap between two games on
the road. They went out to the Raiders, who are
you know? OK? Twenty five to twenty four, and then

(01:22:39):
at Washington with Daniels back, they beat them twenty five
to twenty four. So I think if you and remember
their Week one loss to Minnesota, they had that game one,
they just gave it away at the end of the game.
You throw out the Detroit game. Chicago is a pretty
good team, and it gives me no great, you know,
good feeling to pick the Bears to do anything. But

(01:23:01):
I think I have a good pick on the game. Paul,
what do you think of that pick? Yeah, Paul, of
a resort, we'll recap everybody's picks. Remember, Mike and ASA
have that thirty five percent discount, and again you have
to put in their discount code mark thirty five. The
mark comes from the star of this program me. Let's
see the picks. Paul says, Oh, look at the wrong one.

(01:23:22):
Here we go. Paul says to take the Vikings over
the Eagles, meaning he needs them either to win or
lose by one or less or tie. Obviously, Mike says,
Ohio State beats Wisconsin by twenty six or more. Maybe
all of us in Wisconsin are just too blinded by
the negativity of the Badgers. But I clearly agree with
that pick, and I take the Bears to beat the
Saints by five or more. Next podcast will be released

(01:23:44):
on Monday, and we do the football preview and selections
on each Thursday podcast Talk Too Soon.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
The Mark Dulling podcast is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts.
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(01:24:13):
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