Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Psycho Babble dash Me. I'm your host, Danielle Minch,
along with mayor mar Week.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi everybody. Before we start to I'd like to put
out a disclaimer.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
This episode maybe triggering for some people and is in
no way meant.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
To replace mental health.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
So what's our topic today on episode nine?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Danielle factitious disorder which is known in the past by
munchausers and munchauser byproxy.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Munchauser, you know what I was reading? You know there
they got that name. It was some I think it
was German guy who used to always lie and that's
where they got there. It's pretty cool anyway. One statistic
today that's it. So to the National Institute of Health,
only zero point six to three percent of referrals to
(00:53):
general medicine to psychiatry for this disorder. And once they
get to psychiatry they find that zero point zero two
percent to zero point zero nine percent of cases in
psych are diagnosed with this. So it's not a very
common even though it's a very serious disorder. So what
exactly Inpptitious disorder, Danielle?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
So it is a health condition which people deceive others
by pretending to be sick and then the other one
by proxy is whenever a person makes the other person sick,
and it's usually apparent with a child.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So the person takes secretive actions to misrepresent, stimulate, or
cause signs and symptoms of illness or injury with obvious
signs of some external reward, and usually it's they do
it for attention.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, And then people may make up symptoms like you said,
or even tamper with medical tests to convince others that
they needed treatments such as high risk surgery.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
So what they say is these people often have a
lot of knowledge about medicine when their symptoms may be vague.
When they get treatment, they seem to get worse for
no clear reason, or they don't respond to treatment. They
have frequent hospital stays and ask for tests. Oftentimes they'll
(02:20):
argue with health care givers. Some of the symptoms that
they say that they present with are things like chest pain,
stomach ache, dizziness. They sometimes they'll like prick their finger
to contaminate their urine so it comes back with positive
(02:41):
for blood.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Sometimes they ingest things to make.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Themselves vomit or have diarrhea, and oftentimes they report various
neurological symptoms, like they say to have seizures or blacking out,
things like that.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah. I remember whenever I taught the students that we're
in medical center, we had a girl that was always
in the hospital and what they had suspected is that
she was injecting herself with a good bene of insulin,
which is scary. Yeah, and they know things can be
(03:23):
risky and they even can lead to duty.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
I mean, some of these people go so far as
to request surgeries that are unnecessary. And after we go
over somatiform disorder, which is now called fictitious disorder imposed
on another, we can go through some of the risk factors.
I also read that they say fictitious disorder has many
similarities with substance abuse disorder, eating disorders, and other impulse
(03:46):
control disorders, and that in all these cases there is
a persistence of the behavior and the intentional effort to
conceal the disorder through their deceptive behaviors. So if you
listen to any of our other podcasts, hopefully you'll remember
how we went over that in some of those things.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So do you want to go over spictitious disorder? Yeah,
So that one is biproxy. It's when someone falsely claims
that another person has physical or mental symptoms of illness
or causes injury or disease in another person to deceive others.
So generally they say it's a parent harming a child,
(04:24):
and this is yeah, and it's a form of child
abuse for sure. So what the what these parents do
if that's the person that's doing it, makes symptoms seem
worse than they are. They make up histories, they fake symptoms,
which he said, hurt themselves. They may make themselves sick,
for example, may they may inject with bacteria, milk, gasoline, feces,
(04:51):
I mean, yeahs.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Like small amounts of arsenic sometimes has been found that
they put in their.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, and they tamper, which we said with medical instruments
maybe like they might heat up a thermometer or put
some blood in some urine sample like that.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
So what they think causes fictitious disorder and the risk
factors for developing it are And again they're not sure
because they don't know what the ideology is, but they
say a risk of a history of childhood trauma, abused, neglect,
or abandonment. Oftentimes these people have a low self esteem.
(05:32):
They have a desire to have a sense of control
over their lives and this is the only way they
can find it. Oftentimes they come from very dysfunctional families
with a history of mental issues or medical and sorry
issues in the family. Sometimes these people grow up and
they had suffered a serious illness as a child. Sometimes
(05:52):
after the someone passes away and there's feelings of abandonment surface.
Also there's a personality disorder component of this.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And they said it oftentimes these people worked in the
healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, that's why they're stoledge of what to do.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So the treatment for these people, it's.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Hard to treat them, they do say that. So some
treatment for them would be talk therapy, medicine, impatient treatment
meaning in a psychiatric facility, but probably just getting that
person to admit it, because what they generally do is
(06:34):
someone will like call them on it. Yeah, then they
will switch doctors somewhere, so they'll make up fake names
r So, like.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Danielle said, therapy is for the individual and then if
they're the family, the whole family, and a lot of
times these people have an underlying depression or anxiety disorder,
and like we said, there's a lot of complications that
can come from this injury or death and self induced
medical conditions. They can get real health issues from unnecessary surgeries,
(07:13):
problems at work and family with family and friends, and
obviously it's considered abuse when it's imposed.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
On Yeah, I know, definitely.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
And so.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
One of the cases that I read was the story
of the Gypsy Road Blanchard in her mother, which is
pretty famous out there in the news. So her mother
had been lying about her symptoms so she would It
said that whenever Gypsy Roads was at the age of eight,
she was her mother said that she was suffering from leukemia,
(07:48):
muscular dystrophy and had to be required in a wheelchair
with a feeding tube. Also at this age, they said
she said that she had seizures as my hearing and
vision hair mens, she was sleeping with a breathing machine,
had multiple surgeries procedures on her eyes, removal of her
salivary glands, and then perhaps due to the medicine and
(08:12):
removal of that, her teeth had rotten and they had
have all.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Her teeth pulled.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So it said that d D, because that was her mother,
would stop seeing any doctors who would question her daughter's
ailments which we had talked about. She would give her
medications to mimic certain symptoms. But she was very doting
and very charming. So everybody like praised her as being
this great mother that took care.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, she did, and it started when she was eight
years old. And then she actually went on to tell
her the Gypsy Rose father, that she had a chromosomal
disorder that led to her medical health and then he
praised her because she was taking care of her.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
It said that she had moved away whenever like I said,
doctors had questioned her. And then Hurricane Katrina hit and
so then all the medical records were wiped out, wiped out,
so then she could make up more of her medical history.
(09:19):
In fact, Gypsy Rose could walk, she didn't need a wheelchair,
and she didn't need a feeding tube. But her mom benefit.
They had gotten a new home in spring Springfield built
by the Habitat for Humanities. They were often had charity
sponsored visits to concerts, Disney World, and she was received
(09:41):
as a devoted caregiver at the age of fourteen. This
is there was a neurologist who believed that she was
a victim of munchhausers by proxy. However, the doctor never
reported it to authorities, and then it said in later
interviews he said that there just was and enough evidence,
but maybe if he stepped in then because the ending
(10:06):
is pretty sad. So in twenty eleven, so she was fourteen, fifteen,
sixteen seventeen, I think seventeen, eighteen nineteen, she ran away
from her mom, Yeah, and her mom went and got
her and brought her back. She said that she was
(10:26):
like tied to the bed in restrictive food. Because she
did that, she smashed her computer because that's how she
met this guy online. So then she met another guy online, Nicholas.
Go to John and she told him the truth about
her mother's actions and ended up asking him to kill
her mother. And so he did kill her mother because at.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
This point the girl realized, yeah, nothing was wrong with
her because she could walk nothing.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, nothing was wrong with her. So she served ten years.
He's in life for prison. Yeah, life in prison. And
whenever it said whenever, she she didn't really expose her
mom in the beginning, like get up and walk through
the wheelchair, which a psychologist said, that's kind of almost
(11:16):
like a kidnapped, like a Stockholm syndrome.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Where she has been abused so much.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
But anyways, that's one thing that I thought that was very.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Interesting and a good example of it.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah. So recently there's a movie on Netflix called Iper's Apple,
Cide or Vinegar, and it's about this real life influencer
called Bella Gibson and she was she had a really
bad childhood.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Which is one of the things that we talked about.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Anyway, she was She's from I believe Australia anyway, and
she started this online presence called The Whole Pantry and
said that she had brain cancer and that she cured
herself health through healthy eating, and she.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Put out all these recipes.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
She got a book deal, she got a deal with
Apple to have an app, her The Whole Pantry app.
And then these two reporters, one of them his.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I can't remember who it was.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
His wife got really sick because she had cancer and
she started following this girl and quit all of her treatments. Anyway,
they ended up exposing her and the book deal fell through.
After the book was published, Apple pulled out of the app,
and she basically scammed millions of people. She never had
(12:39):
brain cancer. She said the cancer had spread throughout her body,
and all these people got sick because they believed he
had stopped their medical therapies and started the whole pantry
diet to help her. And she never served any time.
She just basically tried to delete all traces of trace
(13:00):
on the internet.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah, it's really good movie. Or not a movie, it's
a series.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I get to watch that because that sounds really good.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Okay, And then we're going to do a short thing
on somatic symptom disorder, which is tied to factitious disorder.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
The difference, the huge differences.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
People who have fictitious disorder know that they're deceiving someone.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
They do it on purpose. They know what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
People with somatic symptom disorder, they have one or more
physical symptoms that are distressing and result in significant disruption
in their life, and they really believe that they have
this illness. They're not doing it making it up. There's
a higher percentage of this in the population, five to
seven percent.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
It's higher in women. These people have excessive.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Thoughts which are persistent about the seriousness of their symptoms.
They have high levels of anxiety related to their symptoms,
spend excessive time and energy on these symptoms. And so
they often present with things like shortness of breath, fatigue, weakness.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
They see normal.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Physical sensations with sin of severe illness.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
You know, I have a headache, Oh my god, I have.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Brain cancer, repeatedly checking in with their body for any
abnormalities unresponsive to treatment.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
They also have frequent doctor.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Visits and it's unrelated to any medical cause, or if
it's related to a cause, the symptoms are much.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
More severe than one would be expected.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
And this isn't hypochondriations. It's different. They actually believe something
is wrong with them. The risk factors are the same
as people who have factitious disorder, and the treatment's basically
the same therapy meds because they often have depression and anxiety.
Lifestyle modifications diet, exercise.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Don't drink, don't smoke.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Some people will find biofeedback and relaxation techniques also work.
And again, so the main in between this is that
these people aren't faking it. They actually think that they
have these things and they don't.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So that's it for this episode.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, we just want to thank you all for listening
or remember you're not alone, but take care