Overcoming Grief - Episode 7

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Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Welcome to Psycho baval dash Me.I'm your host Daniel Bartley, along with
Meror Marwi. Hi everyone. Beforewe start the show, we'd like to
put out a disclaimer that this episodemay be triggering for some people and is
not meant in any way to replacemental health treatment or therapy. So today's
topic, we're going to talk aboutgrief, and grief is a natural reaction

(00:30):
to loss. The American Psychological Associationdefines grief as the anguish experience after significant
loss, usually the death of abeloved person, but it can also be
the death of a relationship, deathof a job loss, major illness,
moving, or divorce, and too, they say, even it can be

(00:56):
someone losing their independence through disability,yes, yes, or even pets.
I mean, any sort of losswhatsoever. They say, the five top
five stressors in life or the depthof a loved one, divorce, moving,
major illness, and job loss.Today, we're gonna get personal,
personable today on this episode. We'regonna talk about today, Me and Merrimar

(01:19):
the guest speakers on this. Sowe're gonna get personalized. Yes, before
we do that, let's just goover you know, Daniel, they have
originally it was always five stages ofgrief, right, the Publer and Ross
stages. Right Publer Ross who shewas a psychiatrist, and she said that
the five stages were denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

(01:42):
So why don't we like kind ofbreak those down for everyone? Yeah,
so denial is numbness and shock.You can't believe it happened, right,
you just you're actually in denial again. I remember when boy, one of
my old roommates when I lived outWest, had passed away and his wife

(02:05):
called me to tell me he hadpassed away, and I kept saying,
no, no, he didn't,You're kidding, right, No he didn't.
And then afterwards I was like,fuck, guy's been saying this to
his wife. But I was,yeah, I was in denial, But
how did he because he was largerthan life. He was six foot six,
like two hundred and twenty pound man, and he died of cancer and
I was like, how, No, he couldn't have died, but anyway,

(02:25):
So that's an example of denial.And then there's bargaining, persistant thoughts
of what could have been done toprevent the loss of the death right,
what if if? Only again?Another personal story. You guys are gonna
be sick of hearing these. Butmy father recently passed away. Well I
mean it was like a year ago, but he passed away due to decisions

(02:46):
that he made about his medications thatI told him not to do, frankly,
and my mom was still It's beentwo years now and she still says,
you know, if dad had onlylistened to you, he wouldn't just
wouldn't have happened. So that's bargaining. And then anger directed the person who
died or others. It can showas bitterness or resentment. Some people who

(03:08):
are very religious will like turn awayfrom God. Yes, you feel abandonment
from the loss right impression, Yeah, obviously, Yeah, depression, you
can. Some people isolate themselves frommother to help them cope. So in
this stage, I feel like theybegin to realize and feel the true extent

(03:28):
of the loss right right, andthen finally acceptance when you've come to terms
with the loss and understand what itmeans for your life now and that they're
going to be good days and baddays. And I think what people need
to understand is that these stages don'thappen in order, and you can be
in acceptance and then go back toanger or bargaining or depression. Yeah,
and they can last months to years. Yeah, and then something, yeah,

(03:52):
something just triggers that memory and you'reright back in that moment again.
And then recently they have extended theis to seven stages, right, Danielle,
Yes, shock, it kind ofgoes can't to hand, but shocking
to now pain and guilt, angerand bargaining right upward turn where they can

(04:15):
see a future restructuring and working throughif they look at that relationship meant to
them and learn from it, depressionand loneliness and then acceptance and hope.
And they say, you know,grief has They used to say that it
was like two years. That's whatthey taught me about was in nursing school.
And now they say, you know, grief has no timetable. It
can you can feel profoundly sad formonths to years. Yes, my dad

(04:38):
has been gone for ten years andI still a couple of times a week
cry in the car, you know, and think of him on my way
to work or on my way homefrom work. Will they say that that
loss of a parent is one ofthe most life changing events because it's it's
the end of a bond you've knownyour whole life. Yes, I mean
this is someone you've known. Yeah, Like I just said the whole life

(05:01):
on it. And then they dotalk about four phases, which is kind
of like it all kind of tiesin. But the four phases is shock
and numbness, impossible to accept it. You feel very overwhelmed yearning and searching
for love where you're trying to likelook at the pictures, the memories,

(05:23):
despair and disorganization. You're questioning,feeling anger, realization that love one's not
returning, reorganizing in recovery, feelhopeful, and then you start towards to
move towards the healing of the loss. So when I was researching this,

(05:46):
like how do you help people withbrief because that's such a you know,
it's just it's so hard to talkto, you know, address and like
what do you do? You think? What do you say to the person
And they say that you want toacknowledge and accept the positive and nagging feelings,
allow them time. Yeah, becausepeople will often say that they need

(06:08):
to get you know, it's beenso long, you know, you hear
that you want to tell the personthat definitely could a fide an, a
trusted person experienced feelings openly journal Alot of times they'll have bereave, met
groups that they can go to andcrying. They say, cry because that
releases, you know, those feelings. Yeah, and then if you definitely

(06:30):
need to obviously, we always suggestprofessional help for sure, And everybody grieves
differently and there's no right way toagree. And I think what's so hard
is like we were saying like itby Danielle Is saying about her dad,
like just you know, smells,different places, different songs, songs just

(06:53):
take you right back to that momentand you feel that just overwhelming grief again,
especially with a parent, but evenme relationships, yes, for sure,
because I think that sometimes people don'trealize that they're going through a grief
process whenever you know they have lossof a relationship. Definitely. My father

(07:15):
has passed, Like I said,it's been ten years. He had puller
recal cancer, and I definitely wentthrough a lot of those stages. You
know. My mother also did passtoo about five years ago. And I
do know that I always have troublewith holidays, birthdays, Me and my
daughter always get my dad a cake. If we celebrate him on his birthday.

(07:42):
It's hard Father's Day, Mother's Day. Yeah. Yeah, being an
orphan, yeah it is. It'slike I still have my mom, thank
god, she's ninety and I can'teven imagine when she when she passes.
And just another little antidote, anotherlittle story. So this is long,

(08:03):
that's kind of convoluted. But anyway, my best friend for years and my
daughter's godmother, back when they hadthe swine flu, when that was a
big thing. So she had movedto Florida and I live in West Virginia,
and a mutual friend called us andsaid, you know, Julie's been
admitted to the ICU. She hasa swine flu. She's really bad.

(08:24):
Within forty eight hours, she passed. And she and I always said,
and I know, okay, I'ma nerd, but I'm old that we're
gonna go see Barbara Streisand together.So we both love Barbara Streisand and she
used to live in New York.So whenever we'd go out and you know,
party because I used to party,and she would say, you know,
next stop Madison Square Garden and herlittle New York accent. So about

(08:48):
five years ago Isabelle, my daughter, also loves Barbara streisand I got his
tickets to go see Barbara streisand andMadison Square Garden, and I'm gonna start
kind of just thinking about it.And I was standing in the bathroom with
with her, and I started crying, and Isabelle was like, what's wrong,
Mom? And I'm like, well, I always told Julie we would
see Barbara together, and here Iam in Madison Square Garden and I told

(09:09):
her the whole story, and isabelwas like, oh my god, Mom,
this is the saddest story I everand it was. And it had
been at least fifteen years since Juliehad passed, but just in that moment,
those all those feelings came memories andjust like right now, yeah,
like I'm willing now, you're willingup here. You're in a stupid freaking
story. So it never sometimes itjust never. It's a wound that's always

(09:31):
there and it doesn't take a lotto expose it. Yeah. Right,
So now I'm going to get alittle curse inal. Okay, So you
know, people talk about grief asyou know, it always see is a
loss of a loved one. Butrecently I had a loss of a relationship,
right, a relationship that I wasin for twenty years, and I

(09:54):
definitely went through the grieving process andit still is hard parts for me.
So whenever you think back of yourmemories and you talk to that person just
like that, but you talk tothat person every day and then you don't,
it is so hard. Well,I mean that is one of the

(10:15):
it's like a divorce, yes,it And like anytime I hear a story
or I hear a song, orsomething happens in my daily life, like
I wanted to reach out and tellthem right, you know, like and
I'm I'm sure he has felt thatway too, because we did spend a
lot of time together and it wasit was twenty years, yes, yes,

(10:35):
and it was no thought of eitherof us. You know, sometimes
people do grow apart. But Idid have a lot of sadness. I
had some anxiety. So I hadanxiety mainly at night, just because you
know, your thoughts and stuff likethat. So my bright idea was to,

(10:58):
oh, no, get a fishto okay, but it is the
worst story in the world. Sofor my birthday actually February, we we
got it. He got me afish tank. And I was like,
well, this is gonna help becausewe were kind of still talking. You
know, you always go back tothe person. So then we were still

(11:20):
together and off and on but breakyeah. Yeah, so and then we
stopped talking, and so I wentand got the fish. My tank was
perfect temperature. We're talking everything,like I did everything right, even they
said my my water level, everythingwas great. Well, I bring home

(11:41):
five fish and I name them all, which don't ever name your fish before
forty eight hours, I'm telling you. So I had a bully fish.
So he killed all four of theOh yes, So I went back took
these four fish back because that saidthey dead that you could. So they
were like they called like the headaquarium lady, and they gave me three

(12:07):
more. Well yeah, because theythought maybe there was too many in the
town. Well all the fish endedup dying a bully yes, uh huh
yeah, because there was another bullyand I think she it's the most bizarre
story. So then I was angry. Okay, this is my little angry

(12:31):
phase that I was with the relationship, right, you took it out,
No, yeah, I hear thefack the whole thing away. Like I
was like this Okay, so backto my story. I've been six months
no contact. He hasn't contacted me. I haven't contact did him in the

(12:52):
meantime, you know a lot oflike sadness. But I am better,
I'm healing. I feel really good. I'm very happy in my life right
now. But I did read abook that's Getting Past Your Breakup by Susan
Elliott, and it was a greatbook. But I will tell you,
as a provider, I felt weakthat I had to turn to something.

(13:13):
I'm one that internalized my feeling.But I help everybody else, Like why
why why I need help? Youknow that, But that's what that's That's
a lot of people feel that way, especially women, and we need to
learn to take care of ourselves first. We do, we do. But
it was I don't know, soit just like you missed the people in

(13:39):
your life, like you missed theirfamily members, you know, like and
I did run into a family memberrecently of his and it was and I
will say that it was one ofthe most uplifting experience I had, Like
because it happened, I don't know, she was just so nice. I

(14:00):
got to see your daughter. Itwas just like and I felt like it
was helping my healing process that II mean, I was a little sad,
but I was also happy that itwas such a great you know,
conversation. She asked about Zoe,you know, I asked about her kids,
and and then that in that instant, it made me realize that I
was healing, you know. Andbecause for a while there, like just

(14:28):
this is so funny, but thatsong by Shania Twain would come on,
like it would say it looks likewe made it, and I would yell
out, no, we didn't.In the car, No we didn't make
it, and that was my littleangry thing. But then like, you
know, I know he wishes mewell because in the beginning when we broke

(14:48):
up, he had told me,you know, some sadness, anxiety and
stuff like that. But I amon this healing journey and it has been
very eye opening for me. Youknow, I still probably will grieve it
because it was so oh it's ahuge part of your life, huge twenty
years like yeah, what yeah,so, but I don't know, that's

(15:11):
just my personal story on it.And like I said, I love that
song why by I Wish You theBest by Lewis KAPPADELI. I think that
is and it says there, Imiss knowing what you're thinking and hearing how
your day has been. And Ijust wish everybody the best. And I

(15:33):
mean, it's just I don't know. Yeah, well, I mean,
like we said earlier, that's oneof the biggest stressors in your life,
the loss of a relationships. Yes, but I don't think people realize that,
you know what I mean, especiallyfor you know, you hear of
these marriages that after you know,thirty years or relationships break up and that's

(15:54):
been you know, the bulk ofyour life, entire life. Yeah,
and then now you're you know,like I can't I can't imagine. Like
my husband recently got ill, andI was thinking, what the fuck am
I going to do if something happensthat this may have been with for thirty
years, you know, I mean, thank god he's okay, but still
I was like, I'm old,I'm an old woman. What this is

(16:15):
a person I was gonna thought Iwas going to grow old with. And
he's fine, he's fine, he'sfine, fine, but he needs to
listen to his wife. Yeah,but you know what I mean. So,
yeah, the and I was andit was saying when I was researching
this, because I was thinking ofyou about when they said the loss of
a relationship, it says that youknow that can take anywhere from six months
to a year or longer to getover. So because they're not you know,

(16:40):
the person is still alive, butthat that relationship has died. So
yeah, it's hard, it's hard, it is. But we move on,
right, yes, right, wedo and we heal. And you
know, I do a lot ofpositive manifiestation and in the morning and at
night that I talked about on Ithink a previous episode, and I just

(17:07):
have I have the most wonderful supportin my life I have. I don't
have a huge family base because,like I said, my mom and dad
had passed. My brother lives inPA, my sister lives in Georgia.
But my fam my friends are myfamily, my child. Family doesn't necessarily
mean especially absolutely. Hi. Today, we have a special guest on today

(17:48):
and her name is Megan. Sheis one of my friends that I brought
her on because she has experienced grief, just as me and Merri mart talked
about in our episode. He Megan, thank you for coming on today,
Hi, and thanks for having meso kind of tell us what kind of
grief that you've been through in yourlife. I know you had a significant

(18:10):
grief of loss of a parent.Yeah, so, I mean I've lost
grandparents when I was young, andlosing my dad was, you know,
something completely different in an experience.You know, you're little, then you
didn't really know like how you're feeling, what to expect. But like when
I lost my dad, I waseighteen. I was just about to graduate

(18:33):
in high school, having my seniordaance competition, So everything's gonna happened at
once. It was very unexpected loss. It was an accident, like a
car accident, so it was somethingvery unexpected. And I feel as though
I haven't even dealt with it untillike a couple of years ago, to
be honest. I mean he's beengoing, Yeah, and I know that

(18:56):
it has impacted you into this daybecause you do have a hard time driving
in the winter months. Yeah yeah, definitely now ultimately the way it was
in the winter, so I justI always associated with that. Yeah.
Yeah, well that's definitely expected,you know. Yeah. So whenever we
talked in this in the podcast earlier, we talked about the different stages of

(19:19):
grief, and I'm gonna go aheadand go over those. So there's denwaled
numbness and shock bargaining. You know, you're making persistent thoughts. Could have
done this, could have prevented thisof the lost depression where you're feeling sad
about the death, and the lostanger stage, which a lot of people
go into that they feel hopeless,powerless and are just angry about it,

(19:42):
and a lot of people will stayin that too. In acceptance, it's
a time when we come to termswith our emotions, our feelings, and
we experience with the death of theloss that has happened. Now have you
gone through I'm sure that you've gonethrough these stages, right, Oh yeah,
but I don't. I think Ihonestly went through not even acceptance.

(20:03):
I mean, I've accepted it.But like I said this a couple of
years ago, I finally realized I'msuch a control freak. I just hit
me that, you know, thisis why you are control freak, because
you think if you can control thesituation, nothing bad will happen. And
yeah, it just hit me outof the blue, and I'm like,
wow, Okay, so Jay,and I think everybody goes through a different

(20:26):
time, different years, And yeah, do you remember which one you ever
stayed in longer? Like anger orbargaining or I would say probably numb this
to be honest. Okay, yeah, definitely, especially whenever something is unexpected.
I mean I talked about my myfather had passed, but he had

(20:52):
cancer, and I mean it's noeasier if someone's you know what I mean.
A death is a death. Butlike we have time to you know,
know that he was sick and youknow, he was in hospice and
things like that. And then withmy mom too, she had heart issues
and she passed too. And Meganwas around for my mom's death, not

(21:15):
my father's death because we hadn't wehadn't met yet, which we're going to
talk about that here in a fewminutes. But how about the people around
you? Did you notice it?You probably noticed they were going through different
stages and probably still are to thisday. You know where sadness and anger,
bargaining, Yeah for sure. Okay, So and then it's a great

(21:44):
story. So anytime that me andMeghan are out, which we go out
and shop unfortunately a lot, herdad has always brought her pennies as uh
as a token didn't know that.Hey Megan, I'm around here. Yeah,
like you know. And then soit'll be funny because we'll be walking
in the parking lot together and I'llbe like, look the Benny, your

(22:07):
dad's here. So and then whatis so so great about me and Megan's
friendship I have to say is thatwe worked at Medexpress. And I'll be
honest with you, I don't thinkwe liked each other. In the beginning.
I was like, this girl's up, bitch, but I know,

(22:32):
right, so, yeah, that'sme So but then you know, we
we I don't even know how ithappened, but we became best of best
of friends. And so her fatherhad passed on February thirteenth, and that
is my birthday. And I'll tellyou what, even with her sadness and
anger and numbness, she has alwayscelebrated my birthday. And I have chills

(22:56):
right now. And we always wouldsay that, you know, our fathers
are up there, you know,looking down on us, saying you go,
girls. You know, I thinkthat I think that things happen for
a reason, and I think thatthat's definitely brought us together. So let
me ask you this. I wantedjust one more question, I'll ask,

(23:18):
and then I'll kind of kind ofwrap it up, give you your time
for the evening. But how areyou doing today? With it a lot
better? I mean I still haveyou know, those moments, things that
trigger, like a song or amemory, and then sometimes you know there
are happy thoughts and especially different songsbecause you'd love to sing and dance.

(23:38):
He's always such a jokester. Butthen sometimes you know, certain thing like
when I got married, if youlike that triggered like oh I watched you
is here? You know, itbrings you to tears or just like certain
things just out of the blue andyou're like, why am I so upset?
And then you realize, oh,like what day it is or this
or that. I mean, definitelya lot better than whatever thing first.

(24:00):
But I just feel like grief issomething you never get over. You just
live with it. But people thinkcan, but you can't. Like I
drive to work. I probably twoto three times a week I drive to
work and I I cry, likein the car just because I hear a
song of the loss of my parents. You know, yeah, it's just
I mean little things like that.It just it is a trauma and it's

(24:22):
triggered. And I mean I neverwent to a therapy or anything because I
I was young. I didn't knowto think I needed it, but I
absolutely would have benefited some that It'ssome things you don't really want to being
young and talking about things like withmy mom. I know she lost the
love of her life, so kindof confiding in her was harder for me.

(24:44):
And my mom's the greatest humount inthe world, the greatest shout shout
out to her. Could have confidedin her, but I felt more as
though I had to be strong forher in a sense, so definitely.
And then sometimes but when it notyou, but but other people sometimes that
will like stop their grieving and acceptit and stuff because they're they're worried about

(25:10):
their other loved ones. For sure, Yeah, I think it. It
kind of did affect me in thatway, kind of putting everything on pause.
And that's why I really feel likeI didn't deal with it until a
few years ago, to be honest. So yeah, and that's the other
thing people need to realize that,you know, you have to talk about
this, like, yeah, youmight get sad or the other person might
get sad, but you have totalk about it like it rings. And

(25:33):
I honestly think, like me goingthrough the experience of losing my parent,
I've had close friends as their parents, and I feel as though, like
me being me going through that,I'm able to help them talk about it.
You know, just like you said, things do happen for a reason.
Some things are very unfortunate when theyhappen, but I think they do
happen for a reason. Yes,so some of the things that help resolve

(26:00):
which I think I do. Believeme and Mehrimar talked about this, but
I'm going to wrap it up withthis acknowledge and accept both positive and negative
feelings. Allow plenty of time toexperience these feelings. Confide in a trusted
person about the loss, express yourfeelings openly, or write write it in
a journal. Find bereavement groups inwhich are other people have similar losses.

(26:23):
Remember that crying can provide a release. Seek professional help if feelings are overwhelming,
and especially if you ever have anythoughts of suicide. You can do
the talk the talk line at Ithink it's ninety eight eight. I'm pretty
sure, and it's on our websitetoo, So I just want to tell

(26:48):
Megan that I really appreciate her friendshipand all of her help that she's done
with me with my grief, andwant to thank you for coming on and
remember you're not alone. Yes you'rewelcome, and take care too, thank
you. So to wrap it up, you know, if you are stuck
in one of these stages that youjust seem you know, you can't get

(27:10):
out of it, or too depressed, there are bereavement groups like Danielle talked
about. You know, you cangoogle online or if you have a provider,
go to them and ask them,or if you don't, maybe you
need to seek some professional help.And you're just stuck in one of those
definitely, And I know that there'sa lot of books out there, like
I've got my book off the adAudible that was you know, getting over

(27:33):
breakup, And I know that thereare a lot of grief and lost books
out there, and just remember,you know, everyone's different and everyone grieves
differently, and you're not alone,Yeah you're not. And just make sure
that you're supportive of the people thathave had the lost right f