October 27, 2022 • 54 mins
How do you enter into a relationship for your own benefit without making it all about you?
Why is ethics essential to successful networking?
When does "How can we help each other?" become a form of manipulation and misrepresentation?
These and other highly relevant topics are addressed when networking guru Greg Peters joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thereluctantnetworker/
How did reluctant networking grow into the next big idea?
If people want to work with people they know, like, and trust, unethical behavior will sabotage your success.
How can engaging in a conversation that doesn't interest you lead to successful relationship building?
The complicated business of referral fees.
If something is objectively ethical, can it still be a bad idea?
We have nothing more valuable than our good name.
A networking event is not a place to look for sales.
Look for a common point of reference. Ask open-ended questions not about work.
Being a little vulnerable makes us more accessible so others will do the same.
The power of "and you?" or "What a great question! What answers have you gotten?"
Respond without I, Me, or My.
If you pretend to have interest, you might spark some genuine interest.
Is it ever too late to follow up?
The Word of the Day: Gulosity
Excessive appetite, greediness
Don't indulge in "what's-in-it-for-me?"
Look for ways to be of service
Zig Ziglar: You can have everything you want in life if you help enough other people have what they want in life.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Margarita Gurri (00:03):
Welcome to another episode of The Rabbi and
The Shrink. This is Dr.
Margarita Gurri, the shrink. Andhere's my favorite rabbi.
Yonason Goldson. The good rabbiand I are delighted today we
have Greg Peters. Here. Hi,Greg.
Greg Peters (00:18):
Hi, Doc. All right.
Margarita Gurri (00:21):
Well, Greg is one of my favorite grownups. He
is a part of my NationalSpeakers Association, Michigan
chapter. He was one of thepresidents. He's one of those
guys who's always there to lenda hand. He's very steady. And I
think that he's the whole ideaof him being a network.
networker extraordinaire, comesbecause he was an introvert. And
(00:45):
he was, he's a recovering ITprofessional, with a long
history of doing good works. Andhe then uncovered the secret
code, talk about coding, right?
To networking, in person, orvirtually. So he's here today,
he's written a book calledHello, and a handshake, which is
a really cute name, giving yousome of the secrets. And he has
(01:09):
an offer 52 connection tips,we'll make sure that we put up
put it in the in our show notesso that everyone can access
that. Please uncover for us.
First off, why don't you tell ushow did you come? How did you
decide to go from ITprofessional minding your own
business and you're a littlecubicle with a pocket protector,
(01:32):
to now that network, thereluctant networker
extraordinaire how thathappened?
Greg Peters (01:37):
You know, it's funny, you should say that
because I actually worked forUniversity of Michigan for many
years as a computer programmer.
In my last position there, weall had our own little offices.
And on Wednesday morning, theywould leave doughnuts out in the
common area to hopefully out totalk to each other. How it all
happen is I started my ownbusiness back in 1994, I decided
to start doing web development.
(02:01):
You know, this was back when Iwas brand new, and anybody could
do it. And so I kind of it wasjust evenings and weekends, and
I was going to be thisentrepreneur. And what they
don't actually tell you is youhave to actually go out and find
your own work. So and I foundthat aggressively waiting by the
phone wasn't wasn't doing thatmuch work for me. So I decided
(02:23):
to try this networking thing.
Well, as a computer programmer,I had zero skill set in this
area. So it was it was a realchallenge. And I would go out to
these networking events for thechamber and sit in the corner
and just wait for it to be over.
It was it was uncomfortable. Itwas it felt like a complete
waste of time for me. But overtime, I read a lot of books, I
(02:47):
tried a lot of things, Iactually took a class from my
mom, because she was teachingnetworking. And I got better at
it to the point where I actuallyleft the university and went
full time on my business. Andthat was great. I loved it,
until it grew to the point whereI didn't love it anymore. It was
(03:08):
it was a it was just too muchwork coming in. I never really
wanted to have someone workingfor me. And it was one night
2009 I was up at three o'clockin the morning trying to get the
work done. And I suddenlyrealized this is not making me
happy anymore. This is not thecalling of my soul. And you know
(03:32):
went to bed to I'm done withthis for right now. I'll maybe
tomorrow I'll feel enthused. Andthe next day I was actually
chatting with a friend of minefrom the chamber and she said,
Well, did you ever think aboutteaching people about how you
grew your business? And that wasthe moment that the reluctant
networker was born.
Margarita Gurri (03:51):
I think that's brilliant, Who named you that
you are did your friend and yourthat I actually
Greg Peters (03:55):
I named it. It was it was it was, again with my
mom's help she talks about aspart of a way she taught things
is how your reputation and howyou are known in your circles
can sometimes help spread yourword of mouth. And so I was I
became the geek that speaks andand then I finally settled on
(04:18):
the reluctant networker becauseit was who I was in a to I help.
Margarita Gurri (04:24):
I think it's brilliant.
Yonason Goldson (04:26):
That's something that you know, many of
us some of someone said to merecently that if you walk into a
networking event, you'll lookaround, and you'll see that
people are also looking aroundlooking for anyone to show any
sign of interest.
Greg Peters (04:44):
Yes. I refer to that as waiting for networking
to happen to you.
Margarita Gurri (04:52):
I was at an event the other day. Yes, we're
having events again. So I knowyou'd be even more popular than
you had been during COVID Um it,and I got out of the bathroom
stall, and someone handed me acard before I even wash my
hands.
Greg Peters (05:05):
Oh, you're kidding me? No, I am not that obviously
that is that's taking. We callthem deck dealers, that's
appealing to a whole new level.
Margarita Gurri (05:14):
I just thought, wow. And I said, Well, why don't
you put it over there? My handsaren't washed yet. And I started
laughing, because it just was afunny moment. And I asked her
what inspired her to do that.
And actually, this was, since weknew you were coming on the
show, I said, Why don't youcheck out the reluctant
networker. He's got an idea ofthings that will be even more
(05:38):
productive than handing out yourcard in the bathroom.
Greg Peters (05:44):
You know, that actually comes from, you know,
networking from 40 or 50 yearsago that you know, the more
cards you hand out, the better.
And there are still some salesmanagers who have that mindset
because that was what theylearned. I remember, you go to
those networking events and youattend, you hand out at least 40
cards.
Margarita Gurri (06:02):
And I remember that they didn't care how many
you collected? Or how manypeople you connected with? Yeah,
that was kind of interesting. Sohere we are talking about
networking. Yeah. So then therabbi, now we're talking and
what does that have to do withethics? So the Ron, what's the
answer, sir?
Greg Peters (06:19):
Yeah. Well, we were talking about this before is I'm
used to the how and the why notthe you know, the ethics of the
whole thing. But really, if youthink about it, good networking,
edits, underpinnings, ethics areall involved there, we talk
about how we only do businesswith those we know like and
trust. If you are unethical,then two out of those three are
(06:41):
probably not going to go so wellfor you. You know, they're in
there are two different areaswhere you could be unethical,
you could be unethical in whatyou do for a living, which will
really come back to hurt youbecause your network, the
strength of your network, is notin the people, you know, it's in
the people they know. And if youbehave in an unethical manner,
(07:05):
that's actually going to workagainst you because they will
that word will spread throughoutthe people who know you, you can
even be called your networkanymore. That point is just the
people who are aware of you andyour infamy Auntie know, what
was that
Yonason Goldson (07:18):
the anti network,
Greg Peters (07:19):
the anti backward?
That's exactly it.
Margarita Gurri (07:22):
And that's a strong, unforgiving group.
Greg Peters (07:25):
It really can be once you've damaged that trust,
with any sort of unethicalbehavior. I was at a networking
event, one time I was just avisitor, it wasn't a regular
attendee to this particulargroup that I was chatting with.
It was an insurance salesman,seemed like a nice guy. But then
he started talking about how heloved selling, I think it was
(07:46):
supplemental insurance. And Idon't exactly understand the
insurance industry, but he said,I love to call up elderly people
and scare them. So they'll buymy insurance. And I was like,
that seems like something Idon't want to be associated with
a guy. He's,
Margarita Gurri (08:02):
he's not understanding his branding.
Greg Peters (08:04):
No, no, maybe what he actually meant to say was, I
like to be connected withelderly so that I can help them
understand where they might haveshortfalls, so I can help them.
You're being too generous.
Margarita Gurri (08:16):
That's not what he said. Well,
Greg Peters (08:17):
I know. But But yeah, I like to like to look on
the bright side. But honestly,at that point, I was like, I
can't be, I would never referyou. Because as far as I'm
concerned, the way you think isunethical is not going to work
out. Alright,
Margarita Gurri (08:31):
so you've now opened a wonderful door that the
rabbi and I like to peek intoall the time. Oh, if I'm at a
networking event, yes. How do Ishow that I'm ethical, and how
do I show that I'm unethical?
What are the two paths master?
And Greg, by the way, is a fifthdegree Master back black belt in
Taekwondo. So master is theproper term. He is the Obi Wan,
(08:56):
Obi Wan, you have
Greg Peters (08:57):
to they do have to call me Master Greg down at the
school. So as to what is thepath
Margarita Gurri (09:01):
of enlightenment and
disenchantment, sir.
Greg Peters (09:04):
So it's, this can be a bit of a challenge. But
basically, it comes out to youdo you behave in the way you
represent yourself. And in someof the things you you'll see
this, you may not see it at anetworking event. Because
really, at a networking event,you only have about five minutes
to talk to any given person inmy insurance guy not
(09:26):
withstanding that, you know,he's stepped out of line there.
But in general, most people aregoing to be can be on their best
behavior for five minutes. WhereI see it often is in the follow
up. And people will say, it willsay something like, Hey, let's
get together for coffee so wecan see how we can help each
other. Now, at the forefrontthat seems pretty reasonable.
(09:48):
When you get together with them,though their idea of how we can
help each other is how you canbuy from me and how I can sell
to you it's as far as I'mconcerned, you have
misrepresented the idea of isdeveloping a strong relationship
together so that we can helpeach other. You have you've,
you're wasting both of ourtimes, first of all, but I'm not
(10:10):
you put me in an uncomfortableposition, you're not going to
sell to me. And I thought wewere going to be developing a
friendship on purpose.
Yonason Goldson (10:18):
You mentioned the idea of being on best
behavior. And, of course, one ofthe big buzzwords today is
authenticity. Yes. Well, ifsomebody isn't someone that I
really want to have anything todo with, then they're being
authentic is not going to be anasset. No, that's easy. Yeah.
And then if I have to work to beon best behavior, that's already
(10:43):
an indication that I'm somewhatyou know, authentic. I mean, the
Austin Sith, authenticity shouldmean should mean that my best
behavior is a truerepresentation of who I am. And
I think it's very ethics comesin.
Greg Peters (11:00):
If you think about it, there are people who are
I've been able to say, well, youknow, what, if there's someone I
really want to talk to at theevent, and I'm gonna say, that's
fine. But why do you want totalk to them? What is your
underlying purpose is yourunderlying purpose because you
want to put them in a headlockand you want to sell something
to them? Then probably you needto reexamine your motives? If
(11:21):
it's because you think you havesomething that you can benefit
them that won't necessarilybenefit you, you're willing to
put your the resources you havebehind you to their service,
then that's probably a goodreason to meet them.
Margarita Gurri (11:34):
I think so. And then you have to follow up. And
yet, how many times do we meetpeople? Who, like, even when
they're doing a presentation ina group, tell us how they sell
and the selling is crooked? Hmm.
You know, they're, they'remisrepresenting something or,
and they tell you, they're doingit. And I'm like, always
(11:55):
thinking, with the Candid Camerais what I'm always looking at. I
mean, are they? Are theytesting? How the audience
handles this unethical thing? Imean, what, what isn't? And I
think maybe the rabbi wrote abook, grappling with the gray.
And I think some people mean,for them to grapple with the
gray means, let me live on thegray side, and blur the
(12:18):
boundaries enough to get what Iwant. And that's not what we're
talking about. We're talkingabout struggling to be ethical,
in complicated situations. Howabout what do you have to say
about that you're the grapplingwith the gray guy?
Yonason Goldson (12:33):
Well, I think it's a nice, it's a nice follow
up to the the authenticity,point that what is my real
motivation? If it's all aboutwhat's in it for me, then that's
going to color all of myinteractions. You know, I find
(12:54):
that when I go to a conference,inevitably, I'll be approached
by Christians who want to engageme in theological discussion.
And that's not really what I'mthere for. Okay. But if it's of
(13:15):
interest to them, then it's anopportunity to create a
connection on on the level thatthey're seeking. And that may
not turn into business, it maynot seem to advance the cause
for which I'm attending theconference. But on a more
(13:36):
universal level, the idea ofcreating new connections, and
you never know how oneconnection is going to lead to
another. And that's really whatnetworking is all about. It's
not what you're going to offerme, but it's what each of us may
get, and may contribute to oneanother, or to those who are
part of our network. Exactly.
Greg Peters (13:58):
You haven't you I couldn't have put it better. It
really is about, it's theconnections we make. It's about
and I tell people, it's almostalways got to be about that
other person. If you make itabout you, then everybody. I
mean, we know when someone istechniques to us, when someone
walks up to us and is asking usa certain questions in certain
(14:21):
ways to try and push push usdown their sales funnel. You
know, we can feel it, it feelsyucky. I think that's the
technical term for it.
Margarita Gurri (14:31):
Very technical coding term. Yes. Yeah.
Greg Peters (14:33):
And we don't want to be a part of that. It tends
that we tend to put up ourdefenses when that happens, we
and rightfully so. But if we arefocused more on how we can be of
service and that's what I tellanybody who's who's starting out
their networking path, look forways to be of service whenever
possible, because then youbecome a part of their lives you
become intimately connected withthem. And then when it time
(14:57):
comes and you ask for a favor orWhen they ask you How can I
help, they're prepared, they'rethere, they want to help you
they want your success, becauseyour success becomes a
reflection of them.
Margarita Gurri (15:10):
And I think many people do have that idea,
which is interesting. So I havea question that there's been a
lot of controversy about anddifferent industries have
different ethics about thisissue, the issue of referral
fees? Have you bumped into anelegant way to think about that,
so that people who are listeningcan ponder it more effectively?
Greg Peters (15:33):
Yeah, referral fees are a real challenge. Because it
in many ways, it taints thereferral. In my opinion,
referrals always should be tothe benefit of the other two
parties. You know, I know you'relooking for an accountant, I
know a great accountant, let mebring the two of you together.
(15:54):
And maybe that will work out,let me let me give you this
recommendation. But if I'mgiving the recommendation,
because I know if I refer threeor four people to whom I get a
trip to Las Vegas or whatever,then it becomes a little a
little questionable. It's it's,so I guess if if you're going to
(16:14):
take part in that, first of all,you got to be transparent. So I
truly believe that, that Bob isgoing to be a great accountant
for you. But just to be clear,he does offer a referral
benefit. As a result of this,and I had a sales coach who did,
he said, If you bring threepeople to my class, I will pay
(16:36):
for a lunch for you or whatever.
And there were people in ourclasses that I will never refer
to him. Because I can no longersay that there is no benefit
back to me. And people willquestion whether or not I'm
still being authentic andethical about Yeah,
Margarita Gurri (16:54):
in my industry, I'm a psychologist, it's
considered unethical.
Greg Peters (16:58):
I imagined it will.
Margarita Gurri (17:01):
Because, you know, I can't refer in any way,
if it's tainted, it has to befor the greater good. And for
the, for the specific, best needof the persons involved. And
yet, it's become industrystandard. And so now back to the
gray rabbi, what do you sayabout that? I like what Greg
(17:23):
said about managing that. Buttalk to us about the gray and
how to handle the issues thatcome up at a networking event
regarding referral fees.
Yonason Goldson (17:34):
Oh, boy. You know, certainly if, if someone
sends me business, I am morethan happy to express
appreciation gratitude in a formthat may be monetary. You know,
(17:57):
if I'm, if I'm getting if I endup with a 5000 or $10 $10,000
keynote, that I wouldn't havehad. I mean, I would pay an
agent, a percentage to get methat gig. So I would be
perfectly happy to pay a fee tosomebody who provided it to me.
(18:20):
I think the question really ison the other side, if I am
referring someone, yes, theperson to whom I'm referring may
be perfectly happy to pay methat fee. But does that now call
into question my own integrity?
Even if I did it with noexpectation of compensation? The
fact that I'm accepting it, andas you said, I can no longer in
(18:48):
the your story, Greg, of peoplewho said, Well, I won't, I will
make refeed I mean, that's,that's, that's very impressive.
Saying that ethical standard, Iwill not give a referral to
someone that I know is going tocompensate me for it. Because
that tarnishes my credibility.
(19:14):
And so sometimes the email ifsomething is objectively and
this is why it really gets intothe gray, even if something is
objectively on the up and up.
There is still an effect on us.
That may be unnoticed may beinsidious. And it's it's that
(19:39):
making little compromises thatgradually pull us into areas
that we never intended to go andthen we discover were there. We
don't know how to get ourselvesout anymore.
Greg Peters (19:53):
I agree entirely.
It's it's one of those things.
It's okay well, in the exam inthe in the case of mice see As
coach, I did refer people tohim, I did gain the benefits
that he specified. But he's alsomy sales coach. Obviously, I
stand behind this because I paida lot of money to be his, you
know, in his group. So I canhonestly say, but then what
(20:16):
happens when it's someone elsethat I not making use of their
services. And all I know is, youknow, the five minutes that
they've talked, talked to meabout how good they are, this is
all you know, it all, all comesback to there's reputation
involved here. And there's areputation if it can be damaged
in ways that you never intended.
Yonason Goldson (20:37):
We're coming up to the Jewish High Holidays, and
the eve of Yom Kippur War, theDay of Atonement. We start off
with a ritual called Kol Nidrei.
Which means all vows. And if youwould read through the English,
you would you would beastonished. Why does this have
(21:00):
anything to do with the holiestday of the year? It sounds like
this dry, legalistic manifestoof how we are annoying all of
our commitments of the previousyear. And the the deeper meaning
of it is that we often saythings without fully thinking
(21:27):
through what we're saying, wemake commitments that we're not
really fully committed to. Andevery time we do that, it's like
we're we're binding ourselves inways that we may forget about
because we weren't fullycognizant of what we were
(21:50):
saying, or we have all thesethings holding us back and tying
us down and, and indicting usbecause we're not living up to
the commitments that we made.
And so when we come to thispoint, what we're really saying
is, we want to start fresh. Wewant to be cognizant of how
(22:15):
important our words are. Becausewhen it comes down to it, as you
said, Greg, the most importantthing we have is our name. And
the way people see us and therespect that we've earned, and
that our word can be trusted,and that we haven't given any
one reason to suspect orquestion our integrity. And if
(22:39):
that's the standard we set forourselves, and chances are, our
dealings with others are goingto prove fruitful, because
people will recognize that.
Margarita Gurri (22:51):
Beautifully said, Rabbi, I love that. So
Greg, given what the rabbi justsaid, if all the people
listening are going to do anetworking event in the near
future, please help them preparefor it. What do they do with
their mindset? What do theybring? What did they think about
what do they do? Help us createa wonderful networking event?
Greg Peters (23:16):
Okay, well, it's a small order, we've got about
five hours.
Margarita Gurri (23:23):
I just want perfection in two minutes.
Greg Peters (23:25):
Perfection. Okay, well, let's let's let's see what
we can do. Well, first of all,as we've already said, that the
focus always has to be on theother person. And when you're
going to a networking event,remember that this is not your
opportunity to sell, because noone is going there to buy. So
any any sales effort you make isprobably doomed to failure. It's
(23:46):
going to be crowded, it's gonnabe noisy, that's just not going
to work. Go in with a differentmindset go in the mindset of
connection. I want to meet newpeople, this is your opportunity
to meet new people. Now, forthose who are uncomfortable, and
I'm not sure and my daughter, myyounger daughter, Abby is
definitely a member of thisgroup. She went to a new school
into the she said, Dad, I'm allready for school today. I
(24:09):
brought my book so I don't haveto socialize. I said, Okay,
well, sweetheart, how aboutthis? You can read your book.
But before you read your book,how about you meet one new
person
Yonason Goldson (24:22):
and find out their name?
Greg Peters (24:24):
I think a lot of times people are uncomfortable
with the networking processbecause it's too fuzzy. They
they're not sure whether it wasa success or not. So I say,
alright, well go in with aspecific goal, a goal based on
connection. So meet one newperson and find out their name.
Meet two people. Maybe meet one,especially if you've been there
(24:46):
for a while you can meet someoneand connect them with someone
else there. Whatever it is, ifyou walk in with that goal, then
you can walk out with a feelingof success that you've actually
made a connection while you werethere. And you've been of
benefit to those around you Andthe more you can do that, the
more you're seen as someone thatpeople want to connect to, the
stronger your network is goingto be.
Margarita Gurri (25:06):
And so how do we do that? How do we present
ourselves as a way that peoplewant to connect with us?
Greg Peters (25:13):
Well, first of all, you actually have to walk up to
people and talk with
Margarita Gurri (25:17):
them. Really?
Short Cuts, really,
Greg Peters (25:20):
it doesn't mean, I
Margarita Gurri (25:23):
walk up to the person and say, Hi, my dad said,
I needed to meet one person,what's your name?
Greg Peters (25:29):
Well, you know, it's not the best way. But it's
better than not meeting anyoneat all. If nothing else, I
figured the other child probablyhas a father, which is giving
them advice as well. And thenthey can complain about how bad
their fathers are, given them acommon point of reference. But I
mean, it's if you think about itas almost like any other social
(25:50):
event you go to, it's doesn't,it doesn't have to be all that
different. You walk up tosomeone you say, Hello, you you
ask them about themselves, beinterested, be fascinated, the
people around us are some of themost fascinating people you will
ever meet just by asking them. Imean, yeah, sure. If it's a
business oriented thing, you canask them about, you know, where
(26:11):
their, what their company is,what their business is, you can
do that. But you know, what thebest conversations I've had. So
could you tell me what you liketo do when you're not selling
widgets? You know, I waschatting with this guy. One
time, I asked him that he was anaccountant, I think. And I asked
him, What do you like to do whenyou're not being an accountant?
He said, I love to fly kites. SoI'm really I said, So how long
(26:37):
have you been doing that? It'sall since I was a little kid.
And then my big question, thequestion that I always ask if
someone's been doing anything,whether it's their job or their
their, their hobby for longerthan three years, ask them
what's changed. Because there'sa good chance that not only has
something changed, but they'revery enthusiastic about it. And
(27:00):
I'm this guy with his kites, Igot to learn more about kite
flying than I. But you mightthink it's boring to listen to
someone, honestly, I think I waslistening to him for about a
half an hour, you might think itwould be boring, but he was so
enthusiastic. That's cool.
Really, the best connections wemake are when we meet someone in
their passions. When we meetsomeone in their interests.
(27:20):
That's when we really canconnect us to human beings.
Margarita Gurri (27:26):
I think that's lovely.
Yonason Goldson (27:28):
And one of the things that I've picked up and
you know, network is just comingback for me. But, as you say,
asking questions that are notthe typical questions. Because I
say what do you do? They give mea one word answer, and there's
nowhere to go from there. It'syeah, I mean, you can go on Tik
(27:49):
Tok, you can go on readarticles. I mean, all these
questions you could ask, youknow, what are your three
favorite movies? What are yourthree favorite songs? You know,
what do you do when you're notdoing this? So many ways you can
open up a conversation, givepeople an opportunity to talk
about themselves. And that warmsup the relationship, I can show
you one thing that I juststarted doing. I have buttons
(28:12):
made. By coincidence, I have onein my pocket right here.
Margarita Gurri (28:16):
What a coincidence.
Greg Peters (28:21):
What makes your day love it.
Yonason Goldson (28:23):
So I went to a networking, the first networking
event I've been to in personsince COVID. And I was wearing
this button. And no onecommented on
Greg Peters (28:34):
Oh, you're kidding me.
Yonason Goldson (28:35):
But I had more confidence walking up to people.
Because I anticipated that ifthere's nothing if there's
nothing to get the conversationstarted, someone would look at
the button and remark on it. Soeven though it didn't do what I
thought it would do. It just putme more at ease. Yes, so that I
(28:57):
could enter into conversationwith others.
Margarita Gurri (28:59):
That's a million dollar idea.
Greg Peters (29:02):
My my mom's husband one time he was going to a
networking event. And henormally he had his name tag,
which had his name and hisbusiness. Right underneath that
he grabbed a second one andwrote Costa Rica on it. Because
he and my mom loved to travelthere. That's one of their
favorite vacation locations. Hewas surrounded the entire
evening by people who wanted totalk about Costa Rica. It's
(29:23):
basically it's we have to bewilling to be a little
vulnerable. We have to bewilling to share of ourselves.
If we want people to want toconnect with us.
Margarita Gurri (29:35):
That's entirely true, isn't it?
Yonason Goldson (29:37):
And I think that's a good tie in back to
ethics, that if I don't makemyself vulnerable, let's put it
the other way. When I makemyself vulnerable. I'm
demonstrating a willingness totrust the person on the other
side. Yes, if I'm willing totrust you, it makes you more
(29:57):
willing to trust me. And ifwe're With trust worthy, then
there's going to be a naturalgravitation to one another. Yes.
Margarita Gurri (30:12):
It's interesting. As a psychologist,
one of the things that I findthe funniest is that people who
are enthusiastic with a strategygoing into networking, sometimes
get so excited that they don'treally listen, because they're
waiting for the next thingthey're going to say. And even
when they don't have thestrategy, they'll so you'll say
something. So okay, it's, well,I used to, like, you know, and
(30:34):
they're there, you know, back tome. And I think that resisting
the pull of back to me to trulybeing curious,
Greg Peters (30:43):
that is actually something I have to work on
myself. Because being ananalytic. When someone asked me
a question, I answer thequestion. And that's, I'm done I
when I answered the question,and I've had to always add to
words.
Yonason Goldson (31:02):
And you
Greg Peters (31:04):
know, at the end, if they've asked me about what I
like to do, this is what I liketo do. And you
Margarita Gurri (31:12):
can you can even avoid answering if you
want, and you can just say whata great question. What answers
have you gotten here today?
Greg Peters (31:20):
Oh, I love that.
That's great.
Margarita Gurri (31:22):
Yeah. And one of the things that Brita Miller
was the president of ourMichigan chapter of NSA, when I
first joined when I first movedto Michigan, she gave everyone
instruction go around, meetsomebody, and introduce them to
someone else. You had mentionedthat. And so I have taken that
as the platinum rule. I talkedabout someone and I think about
(31:42):
who maybe should they match upwith. So Greg, come here, come
here, come here, come meet therabbi, he has a really
interesting way of thinkingabout stuff that might be a
great match for you. And then Iintroduce you guys, and then I
get out of dodge. And I likedthat I took that from breeder
Miller. And there's something tolearn from everyone.
Greg Peters (32:03):
Honestly, that's a great way of actually one of the
one of the challenges if you getto be a good conversationalist,
people are uncomfortable whenthey're at a networking event.
And so what they'll often do isthey will grab hold of you if
you're a good conversation, andthey will not want to let you go
because it leaves them alone.
And they're, then they're lefttrying to find a new
conversation.
Margarita Gurri (32:22):
I call them the Klingons. Yeah, and, and so then
you're introduced Klingons, tothe rest of the Federation,
Greg Peters (32:29):
exactly in a matter of, you know, because there are
all sorts of techniques whereyou can just kind of separate
yourself from them and go onyour way. But you're leaving
them alone. And I would imaginethat kind of leaves them with a
bad taste in their mouth.
Margarita Gurri (32:42):
Yeah. And you don't want to abandon people or
make them on top. So you matchthem up. And then you, you you
know, peace out.
Greg Peters (32:49):
Even if you even if you don't know a lot of people,
you can always go to theorganizer and say, you know, who
else can we meet here? Who elsedo you recommend that we? And
the organizer, chances are knowseverybody there anyway, so Oh,
have you met Bob over here?
Let's go or introduce you. Imean, their whole goal is to
make the event as as beneficialto everyone as possible. So
Margarita Gurri (33:11):
yeah, I think it's kind of fun when you got
somebody who is gracious likethat, but he's not talking about
themselves. And it is prettycommon for people to not ask
them about them at all. And Ifind that fascinating. And every
now and then you get someone whosays will tell us about you, but
most of the time they won't. Sothat one person that does ask, I
(33:35):
think everyone will remember.
Yes, it's a very strongconnection, to do that
unexpected, of getting beyondyour comfort zone of talking
about me to talk about the otherperson. So I find that it is an
exciting opportunity to standout to be very thoughtful and
caring.
Greg Peters (33:53):
And I weighed the way I look at a networking
event. So you know, when we'reall together together and you're
having conversations, first ofall, the conversations aren't
gonna be particularly deep. Itjust, it can't be it's, you're,
you're in a very crowded room.
And there's all these peoplearound you. And it's noisy, and
I'm hard of hearing anyway. So.
But I try to talk only about 30%of the time because really, I
(34:15):
want to find out enough aboutthat other person in our five to
10 minutes to know whether wehave any chemistry together.
Because if we don't even ifwe're to perfectly wonderful
people, we're never going tohave a great networked
connection knit, greatprofessional connection. And
that's okay. There's nothingwrong with that to perfectly
wonderful people. I mean, weknow them all on our lives.
(34:37):
We've got this great friend overhere, this great friend over
here and they do not like eachother just because they don't
mesh and that's okay. Becausethere are plenty of other people
you can network with. So, talkfor you know, 30% of the time
find out if you want to have afurther conversation later.
That's when you do that followup. That's when you have these.
I love zoom. I love being ableto actually connect with people,
(34:59):
you know, different In a stateor a different country, I can I
can chat with them and have adeep conversation that I
couldn't have standing in acrowded room or on a zoom
webinar.
Yonason Goldson (35:12):
They'll say, if not presume we wouldn't be here
right now, because that's howthe doctor and I met. That's
true. That's how we structuredour whole this is relationship.
Margarita Gurri (35:21):
We did and we met for the first time recently
at the National SpeakersAssociation and influence
Yonason Goldson (35:25):
Oh, marvelous.
And we couldn't get along witheach other there.
Margarita Gurri (35:29):
But we just pretend we pretend ThoughtWorks
Yonason Goldson (35:33):
when I was in college, I had a took a
psychology course, just one. Andwhen I smell that on you, yeah,
you know, I got over it mostly.
But one day, it would have beena long weekend. And we came in
and the professor said, Okay,we're going to pair off. And one
person is going to talk aboutwhat they did over the weekend.
(35:56):
The other person is going torespond without using the words
I me or my Oh. And boy, did thattake a lot of conscious effort.
But that was one of the mostvaluable classes I
Margarita Gurri (36:18):
ever had just the life. What were the words? I
mean, what?
Yonason Goldson (36:22):
My nine? Okay.
Greg Peters (36:24):
So basically, you're not allowed to refer to
yourself,
Yonason Goldson (36:27):
right? You have to respond to what the other
person said. I liked that. AndStephen Covey says that most
people don't, don't listen withthe intent to understand they
listened with the intent toreply, training ourselves to be
responding. And later on itdiscovered this was the whole
Dale Carnegie approach is getother people to talk about
(36:50):
themselves, and they'll thinkyou're a brilliant
conversationalist. You know, itcomes from taking a genuine
interest in people. Yes,
Margarita Gurri (37:01):
yeah. And even if you pretend to have a genuine
interest, you might actuallyspark some genuine interest. So
it's a, it's a good place tostart, no matter how skilled you
are. So Greg, you were talkingabout zoom? As a follow up? What
are some other follow ups towe've identified some people
maybe we feel some chemistrywith or we want to know more
(37:21):
about or work with, or refer towhat then? Well,
Greg Peters (37:27):
I mean, the very first step is, of course, follow
up is, hey, can we have a longerconversation, you know, the five
minutes standing in a crowdedroom is not going to get you a
deep, deep connection.
Margarita Gurri (37:37):
And you ask them during the actual
networking event?
Greg Peters (37:40):
I well, I mean, you can follow up afterward. But
then you have that wholetelephone tag or email tag and
someone drops, drops the ball atsome point, and you might miss
out on that opportunity. So whynot? Hey, Margarita, had a great
time chatting with you, before Ilet you go, can we just schedule
a coffee together so we canactually have a deeper
conversation? Always Greg. And,you know, it's so simple because
(38:04):
we all have the smartphones now.
It's so easy to me, we caneasily schedule something next
week, as opposed to, you know,the back and forth thing. I
mean, I don't know if if thingshave changed since I first
started networking, but back inthe day to try and do that you
can be four weeks, six weeks outbefore you actually saw them
again, and you really only sawthem for five minutes. And now
you're suddenly walking into acoffee shop and looking around
(38:24):
going. I'm not sure you rememberwhat they looked like. So then
you're walking up to everybodyis your name Zelda by any
chance.
Margarita Gurri (38:37):
I learned a trick from a woman who was 95.
Really, she met me. We made aconversation. We decided to meet
afterwards, she took her phone.
Let me do a selfie with youhoney so that I can put that
picture in their context. I loveit. And she did it with her.
Because then she kind ofremembered where she was what
she was wearing. And, and it wasbrilliant. Because she didn't
(38:58):
have to say, Well, I'm not sureI'm gonna remember you. So it
was perfect. I want a picturefrom my context. Perfect.
Greg Peters (39:05):
That is genius. Oh my god, I
Margarita Gurri (39:07):
can come up with that.
Greg Peters (39:08):
I'm gonna steal that. Yeah,
Margarita Gurri (39:12):
yeah, I steal from the best. And I don't
remember her name. So I can'teven give her credit. But
Greg Peters (39:16):
what was the thing you give them credit the first
time the second time someonetold me that the third time is
mine. So it was all my idea.
Margarita Gurri (39:24):
Either that or I could just say it was Greg's
idea. So you know, any workout.
Alright, so then what then? Sowe make a coffee shop. Zoom
time. What then? What's theagenda for this follow up?
Greg Peters (39:37):
Yeah, that's the big trick. Because it's not just
a conversation. It's aconversation where you are
looking for opportunities to beof service. You are listening
with that purpose in mind.
Because the more you are able tobe of service to them, the more
often you can be in contact withthem, the deeper the connection
you can make. And I tell peopleI said you know, if you're
(39:57):
calling up someone and saying
Yonason Goldson (40:00):
Hey, I'm just checking in.
Greg Peters (40:03):
What they are hearing is, do you have
something for me? You can't callthem that often with that. But
if you're calling them up andsaying, Hey, Margarita, when we
were talking, you mentioned thatyou were looking for a new
editor for your book. I knowthis great guy, his name is Ken
walks. Berger. He's, he's amember of our Yeah, I was gonna
say, Yeah, you know, would youwould you like me to send you
(40:25):
his information. I mean, if I ifevery time I call you, I have a
potential solution to one ofyour challenges. I can call you
whenever I want, you'll lookforward to hearing from me. And
in fact, you'll probably come tome when you are looking, when
something's cropped up. It's achallenge in your life. And I
Margarita Gurri (40:41):
have called you on a technical issue before
remember, I had called yesterdayand I need to problem solve on
this. And I called you, you werevery helpful.
Greg Peters (40:49):
Well, and that's what we want to be, we want to
be the person that people arecoming to. So that when you know
when we are looking for help. Imean, and this is the cool thing
is that when I said earlier,that should almost always be
about them. Every once in awhile it gets to be about you.
If you've helped people enough,they're going to turn around and
(41:10):
say, hey, you know, you've beenso helpful, what can I do to
help you? And in fact, it willhappen almost every time if you
actually come out and ask, Howcan I help you? They'll turn
around and do the same. So youhave to be ready for that. You
have to know how they can helpyou and it doesn't always
necessarily mean oh, you know,I'm looking for $10,000 speaking
opportunity if you hadn't haveone in your pocket. But it might
(41:32):
be you know, any, any resourcethat you need access to any
advice you might need. And youknow, do you know someone who
works for this particularcompany? I would love an
introduction to them.
Margarita Gurri (41:43):
I think that's wonderful. Well, so many people
say they're going to call butthen they don't? Is it ever too
late to follow up? When we passhis two week passes? 10 1215?
When is it too late? Or is itever? Ah?
Greg Peters (41:59):
Usually, if someone says they're going to help me, I
might follow up with them inabout a week. Hey, you know, I
was really appreciate your beingwilling to connect me with them?
Is there anything you mightneed? In order to do you need my
my email address or my phonenumber or anything? Just just to
give them a little reminder, butif they don't, you can't hold it
against them. Now,
Margarita Gurri (42:19):
how about is just follow up for a Connect for
a second connection? A secondhit? Yeah, that's really all it
is. Is it ever too late tofollow up? How about a year
later? Oh,
Greg Peters (42:29):
you're talking about with that other person?
No, you know, as far as I'mconcerned, I mean, they didn't
follow up with you. So it's it'sokay. Don't know. Yes. If you're
talking about that firstmeeting. If you met him for five
minutes, then yeah, you've gotabout a week if you don't follow
up in a week, they've forgottenabout you. It's that's just the
(42:52):
way it goes. Sorry. You don'twant to call up someone and
you're going to Greg Greg, who?
That's that's not the responseyou want. But follow up within a
week
Margarita Gurri (43:03):
that I think that's reasonable. And then you
don't have the guilt of havingto have this long list to follow
up with. Yeah, it's interesting,
Greg Peters (43:11):
then the when it comes to the more long term
relationships that you build,you know, if there's a gap in
their own it, you know,Marguerite, you know, I, you
know, I feel bad that we haven'ttalked in like the last two
years, I just saw your name inmy email archives, and I
realized we haven't had a chanceto chat, I would love to
reconnect.
Margarita Gurri (43:31):
I like that.
And there's no apology. Sothat's good.
Greg Peters (43:34):
I mean, it's because they didn't contact you
either.
Margarita Gurri (43:38):
No. And I liked that too many people do false
apologies. It's almost like ahumble brag. And I liked that
you didn't do that,
Yonason Goldson (43:45):
that I really liked that. Because that happens
that there are people that wewant to be connected to, and we
just, it just doesn't happen.
And then we feel this awkward aswell. Now it's too late to reach
out.
Greg Peters (44:01):
The only time is too late is when it is truly too
late. And I've had thosesituations where you know, like,
my, the guy who used to be mybest friend in college, and I
kept thinking, I gotta reach outto him. I gotta reach out to
him. And then one day onFacebook I see as obituary. Ah,
so it's like, Oh, yeah. Okay,that's a reminder, you know,
don't
Margarita Gurri (44:20):
have to wait till you're in heaven and you
can catch up. Yeah.
Greg Peters (44:25):
Oh, your lips to God's ears.
Margarita Gurri (44:28):
Well, speaking of god's ears, Rabbi, do you
have the word of the day?
Yonason Goldson (44:33):
I do. But before I do actually have to
apologize to our podcastaudience. Because I talked about
a button that I had made and Ishowed that the camera and then
I realized that not everybody iswatching us. Some of us are
listening to us. And the buttonsays what makes your day of
course, the idea is to getpeople to think about something
that they like, and make themfeel comfortable sharing it.
(44:57):
Good catch Rabban Okay,
Margarita Gurri (45:00):
It's alright, so the word of the day, sir,
Yonason Goldson (45:01):
the word of the day is you lost city.
Margarita Gurri (45:07):
have no clue.
All right, what great tale. Doesthat mean?
Greg Peters (45:10):
You lost it? You lost? Are you spelling on that?
Yonason Goldson (45:14):
Spell it too?
Yeah. GULOSIT Why you que lacity? Help me out here not
familiar with that all right?
Margarita Gurri (45:27):
stickiness,
Yonason Goldson (45:28):
it means it's in that glue.
Margarita Gurri (45:31):
But it looks like glossa
Yonason Goldson (45:33):
sounds like it means excessive appetite, or
greediness. And it occurred tome that when we walk into a
networking event, I often lookat it like it's a smorgasbord.
All these different choices forme to satisfy myself. Hmm. And
(45:56):
if that's the way we enterrelationships, as we've been
talking, if if my firstobjective, my main objective is
what am I going to get out ofthis? And we could have a whole
show on that. I mean, widerrelationships break down in
every different contexts. It'sbecause I'm interested in what
I'm getting. And when I'm notgetting what I want any more
(46:18):
than there's no reason for me tobe in that relationship. But if
I enter in with the idea, howcan I be of service? How can I
create opportunities for myselfand others? How can I broaden my
network of attachments andconnections? for everybody's
benefit? Yes. Right. Not toindulge in that attitude of
(46:43):
curiosity of what's in it forme, and how can I satisfy
myself? But what can I bring tothe table for us all together?
That's going to pay off inspades.
Margarita Gurri (46:57):
I think that's a, that's a great word. Look at
you is fired. Greg, what'sinteresting, why I asked you to
be on this podcast is that I wason a Zoom meeting with a bunch
of people and your name keptcoming up. And I was on a
podcast. I mean, I mean, I wason a Zoom meeting, I even forget
(47:18):
which one, and your name keptcoming up as someone who does
networking, or someone who didthe it or someone and your name
kept coming up. And I thought,and that's how I met you the
first the first meeting I wentto, I saw you talking to someone
and you were helping them. And Imade a mental note and even
(47:39):
wrote it in my, my iPhone, meetthis guy. And I did come up some
other time and say hi, introducemyself, I was new in the area,
and was thinking of joining thechapter. And we didn't have much
of a conversation I justintroduced myself and and left
because I was, you know, I hadto go, but that's actually how I
met you because you were being aservice minded networker. So
(48:03):
that's good. All right. So nownow that we've got that covered,
what are some final words ofwisdom or call to action you
have for our lovely anddiscerning listeners?
Greg Peters (48:17):
Well, you know, it kind of goes back. There's a
quote that I heard ages and agesago that I just I really liked.
And I wrote it, make sure Iwrote it down because I knew I
would mess it up. But it wasfrom Zig Ziglar. And he said,
you can have everything you wantin life, if you just help enough
people get what they want inlife. So really, the call to
(48:39):
action is go out there and lookfor ways to be a service have
conversations, be interested,find out you know what, what are
their challenges right now? Whatare their dreams, help them
avoid the challenges, help themfind their dreams? Because all
the good that you're putting outthere, all the caring about the
people around you, is what'sgoing to come back to you. So
(49:02):
that's really the final thoughtis just, you know, connect, make
friends on purpose.
Margarita Gurri (49:09):
I think that is a great quote. And now the other
question that Rabbi and I havebeen asking lately is what are
you doing for fun? What's yournext adventure?
Greg Peters (49:21):
Well, I am a huge science fiction nerd have been
since my mom gave me my veryfirst science fiction novel. It
was Edgar Rice Burroughs, thePrincess of Mars. Rabbi you're
familiar with that?
Margarita Gurri (49:37):
Was a good one.
Greg Peters (49:38):
Yeah. You know, great pulp science fiction, but
ever since then, I've been ahuge science fiction fan. And
every year now at Labor Day, Igo down to Atlanta, Georgia,
where I attend the Dragon Conscience fiction convention. And
it's usually between 60 and80,000 fans that just get
together to have a good time andshare common joys so just got
(49:59):
back from That's a lot of fun.
And then my girls and I, my twodaughters and I, we, we trained
in the martial arts together. Sowe every week we're down there
and you just never know everyonce in awhile, my eldest is
giving me a quick punch to theribs. And
Margarita Gurri (50:18):
is that the one that's coming up on her third
degree? Yeah, she'll
Greg Peters (50:22):
be coming up on her third degree soon. She used to
it's so much fun to watch themas they develop, you know, as
they become their owninteresting human beings. She
is. She's big into flying. Now.
She's a member of the Civil AirPatrol, and has been able to fly
an airplane for the first timeand Oh, my goodness, the
excitement and squeals have notended since.
Margarita Gurri (50:41):
What's the name of the woman's group for women's
pilot 90 Niners or it'ssomething with a nine.
Greg Peters (50:47):
I'm not familiar with that.
Margarita Gurri (50:49):
It's big in Michigan. I know one of the
women who's one of them was ispart of it. I say women I'm
googling it women pilot. InMichigan. It's a it's a national
thing. 90 nines. Okay. Have hercheck it out the International
Association of Women pilots. Andthey have all sorts of things
(51:11):
for they have an Eagles forwomen. For young women. Eagles
club Oh, your daughter knowsabout the Eagles.
Greg Peters (51:19):
Oh, no, no, I this is all I mean, honestly, the
Civil Air Patrol was news to me.
So
Margarita Gurri (51:25):
yeah, have a check it out. It's a beautiful
mentorship program andleadership program for young
women. And they they go up inthe air with with a mentor, oh,
marvelous. And they get findtime. So that that would be a
great, great connection, or youhave to let us know if that ever
happens. I will do so that'sthat's absolutely wonderful.
(51:45):
Well, you know what, you aresuch a dear. I love that you are
sharing your amazing insightsfor the reluctant networkers out
there. And the rabbi and I arehappy about it, because we love
the idea of people being ofservice and the mindset you have
offered has, has a very powerfulmessage with powerful
possibilities. So we'regrateful. Thanks so much, sir.
(52:08):
You have some last words. Lastwords,
Yonason Goldson (52:12):
I hope I don't I hope they're not my last
words.
Margarita Gurri (52:16):
Well, last word for this podcast. How's that? Is
that better?
Yonason Goldson (52:20):
I think that for myself as a lifelong
introvert it's when we when weenter into these situations, and
we realize that most people areas uncomfortable as we are. And
most people are eager forsomeone to approach them. Then
(52:47):
the, it helps us in raises oursense of self confidence
motivates us a little bit. Andand then the additional point
that you've made again, andagain, Greg is, if I feel that I
have something to offer, asopposed to just what can I get
out of it. If we bring that notjust a network met to all our
(53:09):
relationships, that we're goingto find our lives are much
richer. And I hope that you
Margarita Gurri (53:17):
all make that happen for you. This has been
the rabbi in the shrink and wethink Greg Peters, and you can
check them out as the reluctantnetworker.com. And you'll find
him there. You'll find him onLinkedIn. And please do check
out his book. What was the titleof it? It's
Greg Peters (53:37):
Hello and a handshake.
Margarita Gurri (53:38):
Hello and a handshake. All right, and I love
that title. You all take care ofwe'll see you on another
episode. And Greg, good luckwith that six degree I can see
it happening in the near future.
Greg Peters (53:49):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Unknown (53:52):
Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrink
everyday ethics unscripted tobook Dr. Red Shoe, Dr. Margarita
Guri or Rabbi Jonas and Goldsonas speakers or advisors for your
organization, contact them atthe rabbi and the shrink.com.
This has been a doctor Red Shoeproduction
Welcome to another episode of The Rabbi and
The Shrink. This is Dr.
Margarita Gurri, the shrink. Andhere's my favorite rabbi.
Yonason Goldson. The good rabbiand I are delighted today we
have Greg Peters. Here. Hi,Greg.
Greg Peters (00:18):
Hi, Doc. All right.
Margarita Gurri (00:21):
Well, Greg is one of my favorite grownups. He
is a part of my NationalSpeakers Association, Michigan
chapter. He was one of thepresidents. He's one of those
guys who's always there to lenda hand. He's very steady. And I
think that he's the whole ideaof him being a network.
networker extraordinaire, comesbecause he was an introvert. And
(00:45):
he was, he's a recovering ITprofessional, with a long
history of doing good works. Andhe then uncovered the secret
code, talk about coding, right?
To networking, in person, orvirtually. So he's here today,
he's written a book calledHello, and a handshake, which is
a really cute name, giving yousome of the secrets. And he has
(01:09):
an offer 52 connection tips,we'll make sure that we put up
put it in the in our show notesso that everyone can access
that. Please uncover for us.
First off, why don't you tell ushow did you come? How did you
decide to go from ITprofessional minding your own
business and you're a littlecubicle with a pocket protector,
(01:32):
to now that network, thereluctant networker
extraordinaire how thathappened?
Greg Peters (01:37):
You know, it's funny, you should say that
because I actually worked forUniversity of Michigan for many
years as a computer programmer.
In my last position there, weall had our own little offices.
And on Wednesday morning, theywould leave doughnuts out in the
common area to hopefully out totalk to each other. How it all
happen is I started my ownbusiness back in 1994, I decided
to start doing web development.
(02:01):
You know, this was back when Iwas brand new, and anybody could
do it. And so I kind of it wasjust evenings and weekends, and
I was going to be thisentrepreneur. And what they
don't actually tell you is youhave to actually go out and find
your own work. So and I foundthat aggressively waiting by the
phone wasn't wasn't doing thatmuch work for me. So I decided
(02:23):
to try this networking thing.
Well, as a computer programmer,I had zero skill set in this
area. So it was it was a realchallenge. And I would go out to
these networking events for thechamber and sit in the corner
and just wait for it to be over.
It was it was uncomfortable. Itwas it felt like a complete
waste of time for me. But overtime, I read a lot of books, I
(02:47):
tried a lot of things, Iactually took a class from my
mom, because she was teachingnetworking. And I got better at
it to the point where I actuallyleft the university and went
full time on my business. Andthat was great. I loved it,
until it grew to the point whereI didn't love it anymore. It was
(03:08):
it was a it was just too muchwork coming in. I never really
wanted to have someone workingfor me. And it was one night
2009 I was up at three o'clockin the morning trying to get the
work done. And I suddenlyrealized this is not making me
happy anymore. This is not thecalling of my soul. And you know
(03:32):
went to bed to I'm done withthis for right now. I'll maybe
tomorrow I'll feel enthused. Andthe next day I was actually
chatting with a friend of minefrom the chamber and she said,
Well, did you ever think aboutteaching people about how you
grew your business? And that wasthe moment that the reluctant
networker was born.
Margarita Gurri (03:51):
I think that's brilliant, Who named you that
you are did your friend and yourthat I actually
Greg Peters (03:55):
I named it. It was it was it was, again with my
mom's help she talks about aspart of a way she taught things
is how your reputation and howyou are known in your circles
can sometimes help spread yourword of mouth. And so I was I
became the geek that speaks andand then I finally settled on
(04:18):
the reluctant networker becauseit was who I was in a to I help.
Margarita Gurri (04:24):
I think it's brilliant.
Yonason Goldson (04:26):
That's something that you know, many of
us some of someone said to merecently that if you walk into a
networking event, you'll lookaround, and you'll see that
people are also looking aroundlooking for anyone to show any
sign of interest.
Greg Peters (04:44):
Yes. I refer to that as waiting for networking
to happen to you.
Margarita Gurri (04:52):
I was at an event the other day. Yes, we're
having events again. So I knowyou'd be even more popular than
you had been during COVID Um it,and I got out of the bathroom
stall, and someone handed me acard before I even wash my
hands.
Greg Peters (05:05):
Oh, you're kidding me? No, I am not that obviously
that is that's taking. We callthem deck dealers, that's
appealing to a whole new level.
Margarita Gurri (05:14):
I just thought, wow. And I said, Well, why don't
you put it over there? My handsaren't washed yet. And I started
laughing, because it just was afunny moment. And I asked her
what inspired her to do that.
And actually, this was, since weknew you were coming on the
show, I said, Why don't youcheck out the reluctant
networker. He's got an idea ofthings that will be even more
(05:38):
productive than handing out yourcard in the bathroom.
Greg Peters (05:44):
You know, that actually comes from, you know,
networking from 40 or 50 yearsago that you know, the more
cards you hand out, the better.
And there are still some salesmanagers who have that mindset
because that was what theylearned. I remember, you go to
those networking events and youattend, you hand out at least 40
cards.
Margarita Gurri (06:02):
And I remember that they didn't care how many
you collected? Or how manypeople you connected with? Yeah,
that was kind of interesting. Sohere we are talking about
networking. Yeah. So then therabbi, now we're talking and
what does that have to do withethics? So the Ron, what's the
answer, sir?
Greg Peters (06:19):
Yeah. Well, we were talking about this before is I'm
used to the how and the why notthe you know, the ethics of the
whole thing. But really, if youthink about it, good networking,
edits, underpinnings, ethics areall involved there, we talk
about how we only do businesswith those we know like and
trust. If you are unethical,then two out of those three are
(06:41):
probably not going to go so wellfor you. You know, they're in
there are two different areaswhere you could be unethical,
you could be unethical in whatyou do for a living, which will
really come back to hurt youbecause your network, the
strength of your network, is notin the people, you know, it's in
the people they know. And if youbehave in an unethical manner,
(07:05):
that's actually going to workagainst you because they will
that word will spread throughoutthe people who know you, you can
even be called your networkanymore. That point is just the
people who are aware of you andyour infamy Auntie know, what
was that
Yonason Goldson (07:18):
the anti network,
Greg Peters (07:19):
the anti backward?
That's exactly it.
Margarita Gurri (07:22):
And that's a strong, unforgiving group.
Greg Peters (07:25):
It really can be once you've damaged that trust,
with any sort of unethicalbehavior. I was at a networking
event, one time I was just avisitor, it wasn't a regular
attendee to this particulargroup that I was chatting with.
It was an insurance salesman,seemed like a nice guy. But then
he started talking about how heloved selling, I think it was
(07:46):
supplemental insurance. And Idon't exactly understand the
insurance industry, but he said,I love to call up elderly people
and scare them. So they'll buymy insurance. And I was like,
that seems like something Idon't want to be associated with
a guy. He's,
Margarita Gurri (08:02):
he's not understanding his branding.
Greg Peters (08:04):
No, no, maybe what he actually meant to say was, I
like to be connected withelderly so that I can help them
understand where they might haveshortfalls, so I can help them.
You're being too generous.
Margarita Gurri (08:16):
That's not what he said. Well,
Greg Peters (08:17):
I know. But But yeah, I like to like to look on
the bright side. But honestly,at that point, I was like, I
can't be, I would never referyou. Because as far as I'm
concerned, the way you think isunethical is not going to work
out. Alright,
Margarita Gurri (08:31):
so you've now opened a wonderful door that the
rabbi and I like to peek intoall the time. Oh, if I'm at a
networking event, yes. How do Ishow that I'm ethical, and how
do I show that I'm unethical?
What are the two paths master?
And Greg, by the way, is a fifthdegree Master back black belt in
Taekwondo. So master is theproper term. He is the Obi Wan,
(08:56):
Obi Wan, you have
Greg Peters (08:57):
to they do have to call me Master Greg down at the
school. So as to what is thepath
Margarita Gurri (09:01):
of enlightenment and
disenchantment, sir.
Greg Peters (09:04):
So it's, this can be a bit of a challenge. But
basically, it comes out to youdo you behave in the way you
represent yourself. And in someof the things you you'll see
this, you may not see it at anetworking event. Because
really, at a networking event,you only have about five minutes
to talk to any given person inmy insurance guy not
(09:26):
withstanding that, you know,he's stepped out of line there.
But in general, most people aregoing to be can be on their best
behavior for five minutes. WhereI see it often is in the follow
up. And people will say, it willsay something like, Hey, let's
get together for coffee so wecan see how we can help each
other. Now, at the forefrontthat seems pretty reasonable.
(09:48):
When you get together with them,though their idea of how we can
help each other is how you canbuy from me and how I can sell
to you it's as far as I'mconcerned, you have
misrepresented the idea of isdeveloping a strong relationship
together so that we can helpeach other. You have you've,
you're wasting both of ourtimes, first of all, but I'm not
(10:10):
you put me in an uncomfortableposition, you're not going to
sell to me. And I thought wewere going to be developing a
friendship on purpose.
Yonason Goldson (10:18):
You mentioned the idea of being on best
behavior. And, of course, one ofthe big buzzwords today is
authenticity. Yes. Well, ifsomebody isn't someone that I
really want to have anything todo with, then they're being
authentic is not going to be anasset. No, that's easy. Yeah.
And then if I have to work to beon best behavior, that's already
(10:43):
an indication that I'm somewhatyou know, authentic. I mean, the
Austin Sith, authenticity shouldmean should mean that my best
behavior is a truerepresentation of who I am. And
I think it's very ethics comesin.
Greg Peters (11:00):
If you think about it, there are people who are
I've been able to say, well, youknow, what, if there's someone I
really want to talk to at theevent, and I'm gonna say, that's
fine. But why do you want totalk to them? What is your
underlying purpose is yourunderlying purpose because you
want to put them in a headlockand you want to sell something
to them? Then probably you needto reexamine your motives? If
(11:21):
it's because you think you havesomething that you can benefit
them that won't necessarilybenefit you, you're willing to
put your the resources you havebehind you to their service,
then that's probably a goodreason to meet them.
Margarita Gurri (11:34):
I think so. And then you have to follow up. And
yet, how many times do we meetpeople? Who, like, even when
they're doing a presentation ina group, tell us how they sell
and the selling is crooked? Hmm.
You know, they're, they'remisrepresenting something or,
and they tell you, they're doingit. And I'm like, always
(11:55):
thinking, with the Candid Camerais what I'm always looking at. I
mean, are they? Are theytesting? How the audience
handles this unethical thing? Imean, what, what isn't? And I
think maybe the rabbi wrote abook, grappling with the gray.
And I think some people mean,for them to grapple with the
gray means, let me live on thegray side, and blur the
(12:18):
boundaries enough to get what Iwant. And that's not what we're
talking about. We're talkingabout struggling to be ethical,
in complicated situations. Howabout what do you have to say
about that you're the grapplingwith the gray guy?
Yonason Goldson (12:33):
Well, I think it's a nice, it's a nice follow
up to the the authenticity,point that what is my real
motivation? If it's all aboutwhat's in it for me, then that's
going to color all of myinteractions. You know, I find
(12:54):
that when I go to a conference,inevitably, I'll be approached
by Christians who want to engageme in theological discussion.
And that's not really what I'mthere for. Okay. But if it's of
(13:15):
interest to them, then it's anopportunity to create a
connection on on the level thatthey're seeking. And that may
not turn into business, it maynot seem to advance the cause
for which I'm attending theconference. But on a more
(13:36):
universal level, the idea ofcreating new connections, and
you never know how oneconnection is going to lead to
another. And that's really whatnetworking is all about. It's
not what you're going to offerme, but it's what each of us may
get, and may contribute to oneanother, or to those who are
part of our network. Exactly.
Greg Peters (13:58):
You haven't you I couldn't have put it better. It
really is about, it's theconnections we make. It's about
and I tell people, it's almostalways got to be about that
other person. If you make itabout you, then everybody. I
mean, we know when someone istechniques to us, when someone
walks up to us and is asking usa certain questions in certain
(14:21):
ways to try and push push usdown their sales funnel. You
know, we can feel it, it feelsyucky. I think that's the
technical term for it.
Margarita Gurri (14:31):
Very technical coding term. Yes. Yeah.
Greg Peters (14:33):
And we don't want to be a part of that. It tends
that we tend to put up ourdefenses when that happens, we
and rightfully so. But if we arefocused more on how we can be of
service and that's what I tellanybody who's who's starting out
their networking path, look forways to be of service whenever
possible, because then youbecome a part of their lives you
become intimately connected withthem. And then when it time
(14:57):
comes and you ask for a favor orWhen they ask you How can I
help, they're prepared, they'rethere, they want to help you
they want your success, becauseyour success becomes a
reflection of them.
Margarita Gurri (15:10):
And I think many people do have that idea,
which is interesting. So I havea question that there's been a
lot of controversy about anddifferent industries have
different ethics about thisissue, the issue of referral
fees? Have you bumped into anelegant way to think about that,
so that people who are listeningcan ponder it more effectively?
Greg Peters (15:33):
Yeah, referral fees are a real challenge. Because it
in many ways, it taints thereferral. In my opinion,
referrals always should be tothe benefit of the other two
parties. You know, I know you'relooking for an accountant, I
know a great accountant, let mebring the two of you together.
(15:54):
And maybe that will work out,let me let me give you this
recommendation. But if I'mgiving the recommendation,
because I know if I refer threeor four people to whom I get a
trip to Las Vegas or whatever,then it becomes a little a
little questionable. It's it's,so I guess if if you're going to
(16:14):
take part in that, first of all,you got to be transparent. So I
truly believe that, that Bob isgoing to be a great accountant
for you. But just to be clear,he does offer a referral
benefit. As a result of this,and I had a sales coach who did,
he said, If you bring threepeople to my class, I will pay
(16:36):
for a lunch for you or whatever.
And there were people in ourclasses that I will never refer
to him. Because I can no longersay that there is no benefit
back to me. And people willquestion whether or not I'm
still being authentic andethical about Yeah,
Margarita Gurri (16:54):
in my industry, I'm a psychologist, it's
considered unethical.
Greg Peters (16:58):
I imagined it will.
Margarita Gurri (17:01):
Because, you know, I can't refer in any way,
if it's tainted, it has to befor the greater good. And for
the, for the specific, best needof the persons involved. And
yet, it's become industrystandard. And so now back to the
gray rabbi, what do you sayabout that? I like what Greg
(17:23):
said about managing that. Buttalk to us about the gray and
how to handle the issues thatcome up at a networking event
regarding referral fees.
Yonason Goldson (17:34):
Oh, boy. You know, certainly if, if someone
sends me business, I am morethan happy to express
appreciation gratitude in a formthat may be monetary. You know,
(17:57):
if I'm, if I'm getting if I endup with a 5000 or $10 $10,000
keynote, that I wouldn't havehad. I mean, I would pay an
agent, a percentage to get methat gig. So I would be
perfectly happy to pay a fee tosomebody who provided it to me.
(18:20):
I think the question really ison the other side, if I am
referring someone, yes, theperson to whom I'm referring may
be perfectly happy to pay methat fee. But does that now call
into question my own integrity?
Even if I did it with noexpectation of compensation? The
fact that I'm accepting it, andas you said, I can no longer in
(18:48):
the your story, Greg, of peoplewho said, Well, I won't, I will
make refeed I mean, that's,that's, that's very impressive.
Saying that ethical standard, Iwill not give a referral to
someone that I know is going tocompensate me for it. Because
that tarnishes my credibility.
(19:14):
And so sometimes the email ifsomething is objectively and
this is why it really gets intothe gray, even if something is
objectively on the up and up.
There is still an effect on us.
That may be unnoticed may beinsidious. And it's it's that
(19:39):
making little compromises thatgradually pull us into areas
that we never intended to go andthen we discover were there. We
don't know how to get ourselvesout anymore.
Greg Peters (19:53):
I agree entirely.
It's it's one of those things.
It's okay well, in the exam inthe in the case of mice see As
coach, I did refer people tohim, I did gain the benefits
that he specified. But he's alsomy sales coach. Obviously, I
stand behind this because I paida lot of money to be his, you
know, in his group. So I canhonestly say, but then what
(20:16):
happens when it's someone elsethat I not making use of their
services. And all I know is, youknow, the five minutes that
they've talked, talked to meabout how good they are, this is
all you know, it all, all comesback to there's reputation
involved here. And there's areputation if it can be damaged
in ways that you never intended.
Yonason Goldson (20:37):
We're coming up to the Jewish High Holidays, and
the eve of Yom Kippur War, theDay of Atonement. We start off
with a ritual called Kol Nidrei.
Which means all vows. And if youwould read through the English,
you would you would beastonished. Why does this have
(21:00):
anything to do with the holiestday of the year? It sounds like
this dry, legalistic manifestoof how we are annoying all of
our commitments of the previousyear. And the the deeper meaning
of it is that we often saythings without fully thinking
(21:27):
through what we're saying, wemake commitments that we're not
really fully committed to. Andevery time we do that, it's like
we're we're binding ourselves inways that we may forget about
because we weren't fullycognizant of what we were
(21:50):
saying, or we have all thesethings holding us back and tying
us down and, and indicting usbecause we're not living up to
the commitments that we made.
And so when we come to thispoint, what we're really saying
is, we want to start fresh. Wewant to be cognizant of how
(22:15):
important our words are. Becausewhen it comes down to it, as you
said, Greg, the most importantthing we have is our name. And
the way people see us and therespect that we've earned, and
that our word can be trusted,and that we haven't given any
one reason to suspect orquestion our integrity. And if
(22:39):
that's the standard we set forourselves, and chances are, our
dealings with others are goingto prove fruitful, because
people will recognize that.
Margarita Gurri (22:51):
Beautifully said, Rabbi, I love that. So
Greg, given what the rabbi justsaid, if all the people
listening are going to do anetworking event in the near
future, please help them preparefor it. What do they do with
their mindset? What do theybring? What did they think about
what do they do? Help us createa wonderful networking event?
Greg Peters (23:16):
Okay, well, it's a small order, we've got about
five hours.
Margarita Gurri (23:23):
I just want perfection in two minutes.
Greg Peters (23:25):
Perfection. Okay, well, let's let's let's see what
we can do. Well, first of all,as we've already said, that the
focus always has to be on theother person. And when you're
going to a networking event,remember that this is not your
opportunity to sell, because noone is going there to buy. So
any any sales effort you make isprobably doomed to failure. It's
(23:46):
going to be crowded, it's gonnabe noisy, that's just not going
to work. Go in with a differentmindset go in the mindset of
connection. I want to meet newpeople, this is your opportunity
to meet new people. Now, forthose who are uncomfortable, and
I'm not sure and my daughter, myyounger daughter, Abby is
definitely a member of thisgroup. She went to a new school
into the she said, Dad, I'm allready for school today. I
(24:09):
brought my book so I don't haveto socialize. I said, Okay,
well, sweetheart, how aboutthis? You can read your book.
But before you read your book,how about you meet one new
person
Yonason Goldson (24:22):
and find out their name?
Greg Peters (24:24):
I think a lot of times people are uncomfortable
with the networking processbecause it's too fuzzy. They
they're not sure whether it wasa success or not. So I say,
alright, well go in with aspecific goal, a goal based on
connection. So meet one newperson and find out their name.
Meet two people. Maybe meet one,especially if you've been there
(24:46):
for a while you can meet someoneand connect them with someone
else there. Whatever it is, ifyou walk in with that goal, then
you can walk out with a feelingof success that you've actually
made a connection while you werethere. And you've been of
benefit to those around you Andthe more you can do that, the
more you're seen as someone thatpeople want to connect to, the
stronger your network is goingto be.
Margarita Gurri (25:06):
And so how do we do that? How do we present
ourselves as a way that peoplewant to connect with us?
Greg Peters (25:13):
Well, first of all, you actually have to walk up to
people and talk with
Margarita Gurri (25:17):
them. Really?
Short Cuts, really,
Greg Peters (25:20):
it doesn't mean, I
Margarita Gurri (25:23):
walk up to the person and say, Hi, my dad said,
I needed to meet one person,what's your name?
Greg Peters (25:29):
Well, you know, it's not the best way. But it's
better than not meeting anyoneat all. If nothing else, I
figured the other child probablyhas a father, which is giving
them advice as well. And thenthey can complain about how bad
their fathers are, given them acommon point of reference. But I
mean, it's if you think about itas almost like any other social
(25:50):
event you go to, it's doesn't,it doesn't have to be all that
different. You walk up tosomeone you say, Hello, you you
ask them about themselves, beinterested, be fascinated, the
people around us are some of themost fascinating people you will
ever meet just by asking them. Imean, yeah, sure. If it's a
business oriented thing, you canask them about, you know, where
(26:11):
their, what their company is,what their business is, you can
do that. But you know, what thebest conversations I've had. So
could you tell me what you liketo do when you're not selling
widgets? You know, I waschatting with this guy. One
time, I asked him that he was anaccountant, I think. And I asked
him, What do you like to do whenyou're not being an accountant?
He said, I love to fly kites. SoI'm really I said, So how long
(26:37):
have you been doing that? It'sall since I was a little kid.
And then my big question, thequestion that I always ask if
someone's been doing anything,whether it's their job or their
their, their hobby for longerthan three years, ask them
what's changed. Because there'sa good chance that not only has
something changed, but they'revery enthusiastic about it. And
(27:00):
I'm this guy with his kites, Igot to learn more about kite
flying than I. But you mightthink it's boring to listen to
someone, honestly, I think I waslistening to him for about a
half an hour, you might think itwould be boring, but he was so
enthusiastic. That's cool.
Really, the best connections wemake are when we meet someone in
their passions. When we meetsomeone in their interests.
(27:20):
That's when we really canconnect us to human beings.
Margarita Gurri (27:26):
I think that's lovely.
Yonason Goldson (27:28):
And one of the things that I've picked up and
you know, network is just comingback for me. But, as you say,
asking questions that are notthe typical questions. Because I
say what do you do? They give mea one word answer, and there's
nowhere to go from there. It'syeah, I mean, you can go on Tik
(27:49):
Tok, you can go on readarticles. I mean, all these
questions you could ask, youknow, what are your three
favorite movies? What are yourthree favorite songs? You know,
what do you do when you're notdoing this? So many ways you can
open up a conversation, givepeople an opportunity to talk
about themselves. And that warmsup the relationship, I can show
you one thing that I juststarted doing. I have buttons
(28:12):
made. By coincidence, I have onein my pocket right here.
Margarita Gurri (28:16):
What a coincidence.
Greg Peters (28:21):
What makes your day love it.
Yonason Goldson (28:23):
So I went to a networking, the first networking
event I've been to in personsince COVID. And I was wearing
this button. And no onecommented on
Greg Peters (28:34):
Oh, you're kidding me.
Yonason Goldson (28:35):
But I had more confidence walking up to people.
Because I anticipated that ifthere's nothing if there's
nothing to get the conversationstarted, someone would look at
the button and remark on it. Soeven though it didn't do what I
thought it would do. It just putme more at ease. Yes, so that I
(28:57):
could enter into conversationwith others.
Margarita Gurri (28:59):
That's a million dollar idea.
Greg Peters (29:02):
My my mom's husband one time he was going to a
networking event. And henormally he had his name tag,
which had his name and hisbusiness. Right underneath that
he grabbed a second one andwrote Costa Rica on it. Because
he and my mom loved to travelthere. That's one of their
favorite vacation locations. Hewas surrounded the entire
evening by people who wanted totalk about Costa Rica. It's
(29:23):
basically it's we have to bewilling to be a little
vulnerable. We have to bewilling to share of ourselves.
If we want people to want toconnect with us.
Margarita Gurri (29:35):
That's entirely true, isn't it?
Yonason Goldson (29:37):
And I think that's a good tie in back to
ethics, that if I don't makemyself vulnerable, let's put it
the other way. When I makemyself vulnerable. I'm
demonstrating a willingness totrust the person on the other
side. Yes, if I'm willing totrust you, it makes you more
(29:57):
willing to trust me. And ifwe're With trust worthy, then
there's going to be a naturalgravitation to one another. Yes.
Margarita Gurri (30:12):
It's interesting. As a psychologist,
one of the things that I findthe funniest is that people who
are enthusiastic with a strategygoing into networking, sometimes
get so excited that they don'treally listen, because they're
waiting for the next thingthey're going to say. And even
when they don't have thestrategy, they'll so you'll say
something. So okay, it's, well,I used to, like, you know, and
(30:34):
they're there, you know, back tome. And I think that resisting
the pull of back to me to trulybeing curious,
Greg Peters (30:43):
that is actually something I have to work on
myself. Because being ananalytic. When someone asked me
a question, I answer thequestion. And that's, I'm done I
when I answered the question,and I've had to always add to
words.
Yonason Goldson (31:02):
And you
Greg Peters (31:04):
know, at the end, if they've asked me about what I
like to do, this is what I liketo do. And you
Margarita Gurri (31:12):
can you can even avoid answering if you
want, and you can just say whata great question. What answers
have you gotten here today?
Greg Peters (31:20):
Oh, I love that.
That's great.
Margarita Gurri (31:22):
Yeah. And one of the things that Brita Miller
was the president of ourMichigan chapter of NSA, when I
first joined when I first movedto Michigan, she gave everyone
instruction go around, meetsomebody, and introduce them to
someone else. You had mentionedthat. And so I have taken that
as the platinum rule. I talkedabout someone and I think about
(31:42):
who maybe should they match upwith. So Greg, come here, come
here, come here, come meet therabbi, he has a really
interesting way of thinkingabout stuff that might be a
great match for you. And then Iintroduce you guys, and then I
get out of dodge. And I likedthat I took that from breeder
Miller. And there's something tolearn from everyone.
Greg Peters (32:03):
Honestly, that's a great way of actually one of the
one of the challenges if you getto be a good conversationalist,
people are uncomfortable whenthey're at a networking event.
And so what they'll often do isthey will grab hold of you if
you're a good conversation, andthey will not want to let you go
because it leaves them alone.
And they're, then they're lefttrying to find a new
conversation.
Margarita Gurri (32:22):
I call them the Klingons. Yeah, and, and so then
you're introduced Klingons, tothe rest of the Federation,
Greg Peters (32:29):
exactly in a matter of, you know, because there are
all sorts of techniques whereyou can just kind of separate
yourself from them and go onyour way. But you're leaving
them alone. And I would imaginethat kind of leaves them with a
bad taste in their mouth.
Margarita Gurri (32:42):
Yeah. And you don't want to abandon people or
make them on top. So you matchthem up. And then you, you you
know, peace out.
Greg Peters (32:49):
Even if you even if you don't know a lot of people,
you can always go to theorganizer and say, you know, who
else can we meet here? Who elsedo you recommend that we? And
the organizer, chances are knowseverybody there anyway, so Oh,
have you met Bob over here?
Let's go or introduce you. Imean, their whole goal is to
make the event as as beneficialto everyone as possible. So
Margarita Gurri (33:11):
yeah, I think it's kind of fun when you got
somebody who is gracious likethat, but he's not talking about
themselves. And it is prettycommon for people to not ask
them about them at all. And Ifind that fascinating. And every
now and then you get someone whosays will tell us about you, but
most of the time they won't. Sothat one person that does ask, I
(33:35):
think everyone will remember.
Yes, it's a very strongconnection, to do that
unexpected, of getting beyondyour comfort zone of talking
about me to talk about the otherperson. So I find that it is an
exciting opportunity to standout to be very thoughtful and
caring.
Greg Peters (33:53):
And I weighed the way I look at a networking
event. So you know, when we'reall together together and you're
having conversations, first ofall, the conversations aren't
gonna be particularly deep. Itjust, it can't be it's, you're,
you're in a very crowded room.
And there's all these peoplearound you. And it's noisy, and
I'm hard of hearing anyway. So.
But I try to talk only about 30%of the time because really, I
(34:15):
want to find out enough aboutthat other person in our five to
10 minutes to know whether wehave any chemistry together.
Because if we don't even ifwe're to perfectly wonderful
people, we're never going tohave a great networked
connection knit, greatprofessional connection. And
that's okay. There's nothingwrong with that to perfectly
wonderful people. I mean, weknow them all on our lives.
(34:37):
We've got this great friend overhere, this great friend over
here and they do not like eachother just because they don't
mesh and that's okay. Becausethere are plenty of other people
you can network with. So, talkfor you know, 30% of the time
find out if you want to have afurther conversation later.
That's when you do that followup. That's when you have these.
I love zoom. I love being ableto actually connect with people,
(34:59):
you know, different In a stateor a different country, I can I
can chat with them and have adeep conversation that I
couldn't have standing in acrowded room or on a zoom
webinar.
Yonason Goldson (35:12):
They'll say, if not presume we wouldn't be here
right now, because that's howthe doctor and I met. That's
true. That's how we structuredour whole this is relationship.
Margarita Gurri (35:21):
We did and we met for the first time recently
at the National SpeakersAssociation and influence
Yonason Goldson (35:25):
Oh, marvelous.
And we couldn't get along witheach other there.
Margarita Gurri (35:29):
But we just pretend we pretend ThoughtWorks
Yonason Goldson (35:33):
when I was in college, I had a took a
psychology course, just one. Andwhen I smell that on you, yeah,
you know, I got over it mostly.
But one day, it would have beena long weekend. And we came in
and the professor said, Okay,we're going to pair off. And one
person is going to talk aboutwhat they did over the weekend.
(35:56):
The other person is going torespond without using the words
I me or my Oh. And boy, did thattake a lot of conscious effort.
But that was one of the mostvaluable classes I
Margarita Gurri (36:18):
ever had just the life. What were the words? I
mean, what?
Yonason Goldson (36:22):
My nine? Okay.
Greg Peters (36:24):
So basically, you're not allowed to refer to
yourself,
Yonason Goldson (36:27):
right? You have to respond to what the other
person said. I liked that. AndStephen Covey says that most
people don't, don't listen withthe intent to understand they
listened with the intent toreply, training ourselves to be
responding. And later on itdiscovered this was the whole
Dale Carnegie approach is getother people to talk about
(36:50):
themselves, and they'll thinkyou're a brilliant
conversationalist. You know, itcomes from taking a genuine
interest in people. Yes,
Margarita Gurri (37:01):
yeah. And even if you pretend to have a genuine
interest, you might actuallyspark some genuine interest. So
it's a, it's a good place tostart, no matter how skilled you
are. So Greg, you were talkingabout zoom? As a follow up? What
are some other follow ups towe've identified some people
maybe we feel some chemistrywith or we want to know more
(37:21):
about or work with, or refer towhat then? Well,
Greg Peters (37:27):
I mean, the very first step is, of course, follow
up is, hey, can we have a longerconversation, you know, the five
minutes standing in a crowdedroom is not going to get you a
deep, deep connection.
Margarita Gurri (37:37):
And you ask them during the actual
networking event?
Greg Peters (37:40):
I well, I mean, you can follow up afterward. But
then you have that wholetelephone tag or email tag and
someone drops, drops the ball atsome point, and you might miss
out on that opportunity. So whynot? Hey, Margarita, had a great
time chatting with you, before Ilet you go, can we just schedule
a coffee together so we canactually have a deeper
conversation? Always Greg. And,you know, it's so simple because
(38:04):
we all have the smartphones now.
It's so easy to me, we caneasily schedule something next
week, as opposed to, you know,the back and forth thing. I
mean, I don't know if if thingshave changed since I first
started networking, but back inthe day to try and do that you
can be four weeks, six weeks outbefore you actually saw them
again, and you really only sawthem for five minutes. And now
you're suddenly walking into acoffee shop and looking around
(38:24):
going. I'm not sure you rememberwhat they looked like. So then
you're walking up to everybodyis your name Zelda by any
chance.
Margarita Gurri (38:37):
I learned a trick from a woman who was 95.
Really, she met me. We made aconversation. We decided to meet
afterwards, she took her phone.
Let me do a selfie with youhoney so that I can put that
picture in their context. I loveit. And she did it with her.
Because then she kind ofremembered where she was what
she was wearing. And, and it wasbrilliant. Because she didn't
(38:58):
have to say, Well, I'm not sureI'm gonna remember you. So it
was perfect. I want a picturefrom my context. Perfect.
Greg Peters (39:05):
That is genius. Oh my god, I
Margarita Gurri (39:07):
can come up with that.
Greg Peters (39:08):
I'm gonna steal that. Yeah,
Margarita Gurri (39:12):
yeah, I steal from the best. And I don't
remember her name. So I can'teven give her credit. But
Greg Peters (39:16):
what was the thing you give them credit the first
time the second time someonetold me that the third time is
mine. So it was all my idea.
Margarita Gurri (39:24):
Either that or I could just say it was Greg's
idea. So you know, any workout.
Alright, so then what then? Sowe make a coffee shop. Zoom
time. What then? What's theagenda for this follow up?
Greg Peters (39:37):
Yeah, that's the big trick. Because it's not just
a conversation. It's aconversation where you are
looking for opportunities to beof service. You are listening
with that purpose in mind.
Because the more you are able tobe of service to them, the more
often you can be in contact withthem, the deeper the connection
you can make. And I tell peopleI said you know, if you're
(39:57):
calling up someone and saying
Yonason Goldson (40:00):
Hey, I'm just checking in.
Greg Peters (40:03):
What they are hearing is, do you have
something for me? You can't callthem that often with that. But
if you're calling them up andsaying, Hey, Margarita, when we
were talking, you mentioned thatyou were looking for a new
editor for your book. I knowthis great guy, his name is Ken
walks. Berger. He's, he's amember of our Yeah, I was gonna
say, Yeah, you know, would youwould you like me to send you
(40:25):
his information. I mean, if I ifevery time I call you, I have a
potential solution to one ofyour challenges. I can call you
whenever I want, you'll lookforward to hearing from me. And
in fact, you'll probably come tome when you are looking, when
something's cropped up. It's achallenge in your life. And I
Margarita Gurri (40:41):
have called you on a technical issue before
remember, I had called yesterdayand I need to problem solve on
this. And I called you, you werevery helpful.
Greg Peters (40:49):
Well, and that's what we want to be, we want to
be the person that people arecoming to. So that when you know
when we are looking for help. Imean, and this is the cool thing
is that when I said earlier,that should almost always be
about them. Every once in awhile it gets to be about you.
If you've helped people enough,they're going to turn around and
(41:10):
say, hey, you know, you've beenso helpful, what can I do to
help you? And in fact, it willhappen almost every time if you
actually come out and ask, Howcan I help you? They'll turn
around and do the same. So youhave to be ready for that. You
have to know how they can helpyou and it doesn't always
necessarily mean oh, you know,I'm looking for $10,000 speaking
opportunity if you hadn't haveone in your pocket. But it might
(41:32):
be you know, any, any resourcethat you need access to any
advice you might need. And youknow, do you know someone who
works for this particularcompany? I would love an
introduction to them.
Margarita Gurri (41:43):
I think that's wonderful. Well, so many people
say they're going to call butthen they don't? Is it ever too
late to follow up? When we passhis two week passes? 10 1215?
When is it too late? Or is itever? Ah?
Greg Peters (41:59):
Usually, if someone says they're going to help me, I
might follow up with them inabout a week. Hey, you know, I
was really appreciate your beingwilling to connect me with them?
Is there anything you mightneed? In order to do you need my
my email address or my phonenumber or anything? Just just to
give them a little reminder, butif they don't, you can't hold it
against them. Now,
Margarita Gurri (42:19):
how about is just follow up for a Connect for
a second connection? A secondhit? Yeah, that's really all it
is. Is it ever too late tofollow up? How about a year
later? Oh,
Greg Peters (42:29):
you're talking about with that other person?
No, you know, as far as I'mconcerned, I mean, they didn't
follow up with you. So it's it'sokay. Don't know. Yes. If you're
talking about that firstmeeting. If you met him for five
minutes, then yeah, you've gotabout a week if you don't follow
up in a week, they've forgottenabout you. It's that's just the
(42:52):
way it goes. Sorry. You don'twant to call up someone and
you're going to Greg Greg, who?
That's that's not the responseyou want. But follow up within a
week
Margarita Gurri (43:03):
that I think that's reasonable. And then you
don't have the guilt of havingto have this long list to follow
up with. Yeah, it's interesting,
Greg Peters (43:11):
then the when it comes to the more long term
relationships that you build,you know, if there's a gap in
their own it, you know,Marguerite, you know, I, you
know, I feel bad that we haven'ttalked in like the last two
years, I just saw your name inmy email archives, and I
realized we haven't had a chanceto chat, I would love to
reconnect.
Margarita Gurri (43:31):
I like that.
And there's no apology. Sothat's good.
Greg Peters (43:34):
I mean, it's because they didn't contact you
either.
Margarita Gurri (43:38):
No. And I liked that too many people do false
apologies. It's almost like ahumble brag. And I liked that
you didn't do that,
Yonason Goldson (43:45):
that I really liked that. Because that happens
that there are people that wewant to be connected to, and we
just, it just doesn't happen.
And then we feel this awkward aswell. Now it's too late to reach
out.
Greg Peters (44:01):
The only time is too late is when it is truly too
late. And I've had thosesituations where you know, like,
my, the guy who used to be mybest friend in college, and I
kept thinking, I gotta reach outto him. I gotta reach out to
him. And then one day onFacebook I see as obituary. Ah,
so it's like, Oh, yeah. Okay,that's a reminder, you know,
don't
Margarita Gurri (44:20):
have to wait till you're in heaven and you
can catch up. Yeah.
Greg Peters (44:25):
Oh, your lips to God's ears.
Margarita Gurri (44:28):
Well, speaking of god's ears, Rabbi, do you
have the word of the day?
Yonason Goldson (44:33):
I do. But before I do actually have to
apologize to our podcastaudience. Because I talked about
a button that I had made and Ishowed that the camera and then
I realized that not everybody iswatching us. Some of us are
listening to us. And the buttonsays what makes your day of
course, the idea is to getpeople to think about something
that they like, and make themfeel comfortable sharing it.
(44:57):
Good catch Rabban Okay,
Margarita Gurri (45:00):
It's alright, so the word of the day, sir,
Yonason Goldson (45:01):
the word of the day is you lost city.
Margarita Gurri (45:07):
have no clue.
All right, what great tale. Doesthat mean?
Greg Peters (45:10):
You lost it? You lost? Are you spelling on that?
Yonason Goldson (45:14):
Spell it too?
Yeah. GULOSIT Why you que lacity? Help me out here not
familiar with that all right?
Margarita Gurri (45:27):
stickiness,
Yonason Goldson (45:28):
it means it's in that glue.
Margarita Gurri (45:31):
But it looks like glossa
Yonason Goldson (45:33):
sounds like it means excessive appetite, or
greediness. And it occurred tome that when we walk into a
networking event, I often lookat it like it's a smorgasbord.
All these different choices forme to satisfy myself. Hmm. And
(45:56):
if that's the way we enterrelationships, as we've been
talking, if if my firstobjective, my main objective is
what am I going to get out ofthis? And we could have a whole
show on that. I mean, widerrelationships break down in
every different contexts. It'sbecause I'm interested in what
I'm getting. And when I'm notgetting what I want any more
(46:18):
than there's no reason for me tobe in that relationship. But if
I enter in with the idea, howcan I be of service? How can I
create opportunities for myselfand others? How can I broaden my
network of attachments andconnections? for everybody's
benefit? Yes. Right. Not toindulge in that attitude of
(46:43):
curiosity of what's in it forme, and how can I satisfy
myself? But what can I bring tothe table for us all together?
That's going to pay off inspades.
Margarita Gurri (46:57):
I think that's a, that's a great word. Look at
you is fired. Greg, what'sinteresting, why I asked you to
be on this podcast is that I wason a Zoom meeting with a bunch
of people and your name keptcoming up. And I was on a
podcast. I mean, I mean, I wason a Zoom meeting, I even forget
(47:18):
which one, and your name keptcoming up as someone who does
networking, or someone who didthe it or someone and your name
kept coming up. And I thought,and that's how I met you the
first the first meeting I wentto, I saw you talking to someone
and you were helping them. And Imade a mental note and even
(47:39):
wrote it in my, my iPhone, meetthis guy. And I did come up some
other time and say hi, introducemyself, I was new in the area,
and was thinking of joining thechapter. And we didn't have much
of a conversation I justintroduced myself and and left
because I was, you know, I hadto go, but that's actually how I
met you because you were being aservice minded networker. So
(48:03):
that's good. All right. So nownow that we've got that covered,
what are some final words ofwisdom or call to action you
have for our lovely anddiscerning listeners?
Greg Peters (48:17):
Well, you know, it kind of goes back. There's a
quote that I heard ages and agesago that I just I really liked.
And I wrote it, make sure Iwrote it down because I knew I
would mess it up. But it wasfrom Zig Ziglar. And he said,
you can have everything you wantin life, if you just help enough
people get what they want inlife. So really, the call to
(48:39):
action is go out there and lookfor ways to be a service have
conversations, be interested,find out you know what, what are
their challenges right now? Whatare their dreams, help them
avoid the challenges, help themfind their dreams? Because all
the good that you're putting outthere, all the caring about the
people around you, is what'sgoing to come back to you. So
(49:02):
that's really the final thoughtis just, you know, connect, make
friends on purpose.
Margarita Gurri (49:09):
I think that is a great quote. And now the other
question that Rabbi and I havebeen asking lately is what are
you doing for fun? What's yournext adventure?
Greg Peters (49:21):
Well, I am a huge science fiction nerd have been
since my mom gave me my veryfirst science fiction novel. It
was Edgar Rice Burroughs, thePrincess of Mars. Rabbi you're
familiar with that?
Margarita Gurri (49:37):
Was a good one.
Greg Peters (49:38):
Yeah. You know, great pulp science fiction, but
ever since then, I've been ahuge science fiction fan. And
every year now at Labor Day, Igo down to Atlanta, Georgia,
where I attend the Dragon Conscience fiction convention. And
it's usually between 60 and80,000 fans that just get
together to have a good time andshare common joys so just got
(49:59):
back from That's a lot of fun.
And then my girls and I, my twodaughters and I, we, we trained
in the martial arts together. Sowe every week we're down there
and you just never know everyonce in awhile, my eldest is
giving me a quick punch to theribs. And
Margarita Gurri (50:18):
is that the one that's coming up on her third
degree? Yeah, she'll
Greg Peters (50:22):
be coming up on her third degree soon. She used to
it's so much fun to watch themas they develop, you know, as
they become their owninteresting human beings. She
is. She's big into flying. Now.
She's a member of the Civil AirPatrol, and has been able to fly
an airplane for the first timeand Oh, my goodness, the
excitement and squeals have notended since.
Margarita Gurri (50:41):
What's the name of the woman's group for women's
pilot 90 Niners or it'ssomething with a nine.
Greg Peters (50:47):
I'm not familiar with that.
Margarita Gurri (50:49):
It's big in Michigan. I know one of the
women who's one of them was ispart of it. I say women I'm
googling it women pilot. InMichigan. It's a it's a national
thing. 90 nines. Okay. Have hercheck it out the International
Association of Women pilots. Andthey have all sorts of things
(51:11):
for they have an Eagles forwomen. For young women. Eagles
club Oh, your daughter knowsabout the Eagles.
Greg Peters (51:19):
Oh, no, no, I this is all I mean, honestly, the
Civil Air Patrol was news to me.
So
Margarita Gurri (51:25):
yeah, have a check it out. It's a beautiful
mentorship program andleadership program for young
women. And they they go up inthe air with with a mentor, oh,
marvelous. And they get findtime. So that that would be a
great, great connection, or youhave to let us know if that ever
happens. I will do so that'sthat's absolutely wonderful.
(51:45):
Well, you know what, you aresuch a dear. I love that you are
sharing your amazing insightsfor the reluctant networkers out
there. And the rabbi and I arehappy about it, because we love
the idea of people being ofservice and the mindset you have
offered has, has a very powerfulmessage with powerful
possibilities. So we'regrateful. Thanks so much, sir.
(52:08):
You have some last words. Lastwords,
Yonason Goldson (52:12):
I hope I don't I hope they're not my last
words.
Margarita Gurri (52:16):
Well, last word for this podcast. How's that? Is
that better?
Yonason Goldson (52:20):
I think that for myself as a lifelong
introvert it's when we when weenter into these situations, and
we realize that most people areas uncomfortable as we are. And
most people are eager forsomeone to approach them. Then
(52:47):
the, it helps us in raises oursense of self confidence
motivates us a little bit. Andand then the additional point
that you've made again, andagain, Greg is, if I feel that I
have something to offer, asopposed to just what can I get
out of it. If we bring that notjust a network met to all our
(53:09):
relationships, that we're goingto find our lives are much
richer. And I hope that you
Margarita Gurri (53:17):
all make that happen for you. This has been
the rabbi in the shrink and wethink Greg Peters, and you can
check them out as the reluctantnetworker.com. And you'll find
him there. You'll find him onLinkedIn. And please do check
out his book. What was the titleof it? It's
Greg Peters (53:37):
Hello and a handshake.
Margarita Gurri (53:38):
Hello and a handshake. All right, and I love
that title. You all take care ofwe'll see you on another
episode. And Greg, good luckwith that six degree I can see
it happening in the near future.
Greg Peters (53:49):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Unknown (53:52):
Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrink
everyday ethics unscripted tobook Dr. Red Shoe, Dr. Margarita
Guri or Rabbi Jonas and Goldsonas speakers or advisors for your
organization, contact them atthe rabbi and the shrink.com.
This has been a doctor Red Shoeproduction
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