November 3, 2022 • 40 mins
Why do so many of us not achieve our own potential?
What can we do to turn failure into success?
How do we bridge the gap between perception and reality?
These and more topics are addressed when concierge, high performance, psychology coach Dr. Robyn Odegaard joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robynodegaard/
https://drrobynodegaard.com/
It's easy to be mediocre, because if you don't try, you can't fail.
Don't repeat the mistake of Cain.
Five step paradigm:
1) What is your goal?
2) What is your plan?
3) What do I need to know or know how to do that I don't know now?
4) What are your psychological barriers?
5) What people, places, or habits are helping or hurting us?
Changing our environment can help us change what needs to be change.
Once you make the choice to change, change becomes easier and more likely.
Talking about ourselves can be limiting.
Giving advice is dangerous; giving good advice is deadly.
Rebuke is validating when it's given with care and concern.
Shame is imposed from the outside, but it's our choice whether we accept it.
Ethics demands that we make ourselves competent.
Have the courage to question your own expertise, competence, and objectivity.
"Perception is what you think; reality is what I think."
Learn from the intellectual integrity of Abraham Lincoln.
Listen to everyone, then make your own decisions.
Don't compromise with the middle.
Employees who are overworked, overwhelmed, and underutilized is a formula for disaster.
The word of the day: Hegira [ hi-jahy-ruh]
Flight or journey to a more agreeable location
Rabbi Akiva's transition from illiterate shepherd to the leader of his generation via the coaching of his wife, Rachel.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Margarita Gurri (00:03):
Welcome to an episode of The Rabbi and The
Shrink. This is Dr. MargaritaGuri, the shrink, and my
favorite Rabbi Goldson with agood rabbi and I have with you a
high performance conciergecoach. Her name is Dr. Robin
Odegaard. Welcome Dr. Robin.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (00:22):
Hi. Thanks for having me.
Margarita Gurri (00:24):
Now, since you're highperformance, you
don't mind me bragging about youa little bit, right? I would
love it if you would. So inSpanish, we have a saying, quote
as Ethan Latina Leila, whichmeans poor thing doesn't have a
grandmother, which means ifthere's a grandmother around,
she brags about you. So youdon't have to. So I'm going to
brag a little bit. I think wehave a very interesting thinker
(00:44):
here. Dr. Robin comes from theworld of competitive beach
volleyball. And she learned thehard way about what it's like to
not have people have highexpectations of you. Because
you're and I'm, I'm puttingwords in your mouth. Because
you're young, you're beautiful,you're female, the way people
(01:06):
look at you, and you're not verybraggy. So you don't maybe come
across, showing off who you are.
And you use that in a verythoughtful way. To be quite a
thoughtful thinker. You createda bunch of programs. You're a
speaker, you have a TEDxprogram, about creating success
out of chaos, which right now,everyone must be very happy,
(01:27):
because it's been a lot ofchaos. So I'm sure you're busier
than all than ever before. Andyou have you're citing
organizational psychology. Andyou've written three books, the
titles I'm going to read becauseI love them. Stop the drama, The
Ultimate Guide to female teams.
Oh, well, thank you, Dr. Robin.
And the next one, The UltimateGuide to Handling every
(01:50):
disagreement every time. I likethat and how to feed a human the
whole food muse, a whole foodmuscle way. All right, very
cool. Just got many, many yearsin the corporate world and many
years as a coach. I'm welcome.
And tell us please about whatyou do. What makes you a
(02:12):
concierge, high performancepsychology? Coach?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (02:16):
Yeah, so people sometimes call me crisis
coach, sometimes they'll saythat sometimes people will say
that I create success out ofchaos by being a smokejumper.
Like I parachute in and helpfight life's fires from the
inside. I have a client who saysthat I'm the rock for the rocks
and her world, she has to holdeverything together. And if
(02:37):
she's not holding it together,then she's like, you gotta help
me. And so, you know, we're,those are the kinds of things
that I do. I've been reallyfortunate that people trust me
with their lives, like thestories people tell me. So for
example, last fall, I hadsomeone call me just out of the
blue on a Saturday, and he said,Robin, you have to help me. My
(02:57):
dad just went on life support.
And I'm the executor, you haveto help me decide if I'm going
to kill my dad. Ah. And so I getyou know, I when I talk to other
coaches, they always say, Robin,I know when to send somebody to
you because I don't want thecrisis. I don't want the chaos.
I don't want the crazy. They. Sothat makes me different in that
way.
Margarita Gurri (03:20):
Go ahead, grab this. It's
Yonason Goldson (03:21):
a fascinating skill set to have. Because, you
know, Dr. Richard and I oftenobserve that work at
partnership, because I had a bigpicture person, and she's a
detail person who's also handlescrises very well. And thank you,
sir. I'm perfectly happy toallow others to to take that
(03:42):
over. It's good to know thereare people in the world who can
do that, because we need you.
Margarita Gurri (03:46):
Yeah, it is a good skill set. And I think then
it helps you provide a trustingbond with somebody so that they
can move forward to their highperformance lives, which is, I
think, a lovely. So let me askthis. Why is it most of us never
(04:07):
achieve our true highperformance potential?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (04:11):
That is a really loaded question. Well,
thank you. A lot of it is Ithink, if you've ever read the
book, The Big Leap, I think weupper limit ourselves. I think
at some point in our lives, wewere told you're allowed to be
this successful, you're allowedto be this happy. And so we have
that voice in our head thatsays, Oh, I shouldn't do this,
or I can't do this, or I'vetried that that's going to fail
(04:32):
or we have an external voice. Iknow I have family members who
are like, Oh, you shouldn't dothat. Who do you think you are?
And we believe that and so wenever really go out and succeed.
You know, you How do I explainit in a good way? It's easy to
be mediocre because if you don'ttry you can't fail. So if you
only ever tried to do the thingsyou know you can do you're never
(04:54):
going to achieve those stretchgoals.
Yonason Goldson (04:57):
When when Cain brings his offering to God and
it's not accepted. The sage hasexplained that that he brought
not the best of his produce,it's rather brought the best of
his and his was accepted, can'tfigure out what what's the
point, God's not going to eat itanyway, it's not going to eat my
(05:18):
tomatoes. So I might as wellkeep the good stuff for myself.
And he's upset that he's not,he's not recognized. And God
comes to him and says that ifyou do, well, if you do you're
capable of doing, you will berecognized. And if not, sin is
crouching at the door. And inJudaism, the doorway is a symbol
(05:41):
of transition. And transition ishard. We like to stay in our
comfort zones. So when weapproach a door in life, any
point of opportunity orpotential growth, there's this
little voice saying, Don't doit. It's too risky. It's not
worth it. It's not worth takinga chance, just stay where you're
comfortable. And then if we getthrough the door, another voice
(06:04):
starts saying, wow, look whatyou accomplished. Isn't that
wonderful? You can rest now. Butreally, what we should be doing
is always looking for the nextdoorway to go through.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (06:17):
After you do have yourself on the back. Give
you a minute. Yeah,
Yonason Goldson (06:20):
you get a minute.
Margarita Gurri (06:21):
And then without getting demoralized,
that there's more and more andmore. No, my dog is my high
performance coach, you see herin the background, ah, see helps
you always keep going for thenext and not take ourselves too
seriously, that our failures,our, our, our what we're capable
of. It's only the invitation formore. So let's say someone in
(06:45):
the audience is struggling withthe issue of wanting to or
thinking they deserve to be highperformance. What do you say,
Dr. Robin?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (06:54):
Well, so the first thing you have to do is
figure out what is it you want?
So I have kind of a five stepparadigm that I kind of help
people walk through what is it Iwould love to share with you? So
the first thing is, what do Iwant? What is my what is my
goal? And a lot of times whenyou please ask people that
they're like, Well, I don'tknow, I don't have a goal. So
then flip it around. Well, whatis not working right now? Where
are you right now that isn'tmaking you happy that isn't
(07:16):
giving you fulfillment? Becauseif you can talk sometimes we're
better about talking aboutwhat's negative. And if you can
talk about what's negative, thenyou can say, okay, now I have a
goal, I want that to stophappening. What does that look
like? So figured out your goal?
What is it you want to havehappen? And if you have to look
at the negative do that, thenthe second piece of it is okay,
(07:38):
what's my strategy? What's myplan? And you have to do problem
deconstruction, because nowyou've got this big goal. But
you got to figure out how do Ibreak it down into something
that's actually doable? Sowhat's the first step, and the
suggestion I like to give peopleis your first step should could
fit into two categories. One, itshould be small enough that you
(07:58):
can take it and if it doesn'twork, you can back out of it. So
don't take a huge step in and belike, well, now I'm stuck out
here. This didn't work, smallstep that I'll give you
information. That's the firstpiece got to give you
information. Am I on the rightpath? And is it small enough
that if it doesn't work, I canback out of it? So figure out
your strategy, take a small stepthat gives you information if
you're heading the right way.
The next piece is knowledge orskills. What do I need to know
(08:20):
or be able to do that I can'tcurrently, and that doesn't mean
oh, I have to go out and learnit. Let me go spend 10 years in
school because a lot of peopleget stuck in the knowledge and
skill space, because they spendall kinds of time learning and
they never actually take action.
So it might make sense for youto hire someone. For example, if
(08:42):
you need someone with my skillset, could you learn to do what
I do? Sure, give yourself 15years, you could probably do
what I do. But hire me we canget you through the process in
three months, six months. Solook at the skills and knowledge
that you need find out shouldyou hire someone? Or should you
learn it? Sometimes it makessense to hire someone. Those are
kind of the three easy parts.
The next piece is yourpsychological barriers. And I'm
(09:04):
sure doctor you see this. Theseare the saboteurs the Upper
Limiting the things that tell meOh, I can't do that. I shouldn't
do that, oh, I tried that itdidn't work. Whatever. What are
your psychological barriers andsometimes the hardest part is
recognizing that. So have aconversation with someone bring
someone in that's going to helpyou recognize your psychological
(09:25):
barriers and then hold youaccountable to overcoming them.
And the last piece, peopleplaces things and habits that
either help or hurt. Very oftenwe have habits in our lives. We
don't even recognize or arelimiting our ability to succeed.
So that's something I like tolook at with clients. So that's
my kind of five step paradigmand they don't have to go in
(09:46):
that order. That's just themortar there in my brain. But
that's how I do it.
Yonason Goldson (09:52):
You know we have an expression in Judaism
change your place, change yourfortune and If you've sort of
put an interesting angle on itthat I hadn't really thought
about before, that it's notmerely something that's
metaphysical, that's somethingthat is deeply psychological,
(10:12):
that when I'm in the same place,literally or figuratively, then
I'm likely to keep doing thesame things. Because the
environment is connected withthose habits. And when I put
myself in a different place,then naturally, I'm going to be
exposed to different stimulithat are going to help me
respond differently and activelyand change the things that need
(10:34):
to be changed.
Margarita Gurri (10:36):
Yeah, that takes a lot of courage. It does.
So by the time that someone hasdecided that they are going to
try and change their place, whatpercentage do you think actually
follow through?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (10:52):
Well, I was gonna say, unfortunately, but
maybe fortunately, the peoplewho come to me are a higher
percentage likely to actuallychange because they've self
selected into working withsomeone like me, it's the people
who never self select intogetting help and finding out
their their barriers and doingit. So I don't know, I don't
have a good percentage, becausethe people who work with me a
(11:13):
lot of them do create a lot ofchange.
Margarita Gurri (11:16):
I would imagine that I think that you create a
safe space for people I can seein your reading and in your,
your, your writing. And thenyour presentations are very
thoughtful action.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (11:29):
Thank you.
And then the thing is, I've beenthrough chaos, you know, some of
my personal story is very, verychaotic. And so very rarely can
a client come to me and sharesomething where I can't say,
Yeah, been there done thatunderstand.
Margarita Gurri (11:43):
But I don't think we have to be there and
have been through that, in orderto be thoughtful. No, you don't,
it just helps. And, and I thinksometimes, sometimes people
who've been through experiencesdo themselves and others a
disservice by talking about ittoo much. Because there's only
one way through it. Yes, and youare an expert, regardless of
(12:04):
what your experience is, youhave an amazing skill set in
terms of how you think, and howyou create solutions. And I
think talking about ourselves issometimes very limiting. And I
see that you don't do that allthe time. Some people do do that
all the time. And it limitstheir the scope of what they
Yonason Goldson (12:23):
offer. I'm gonna get back to the point
about being courageous. It'sreally fascinating to me, I
recently had an opportunity tosolicit a number of people for
to critique some work that I wasdoing. And the responses were
fascinating. Because the oneswho had suggestions on how I can
(12:47):
improve, I mean, it's alwaysnice when people tell you, Oh,
it's wonderful. It's great. It'sterrific. You know, we like to
hear that. But it's much moreuseful. When people tell you,
here's how you can improve. Andsome of the respondents were
very direct, which I appreciateit. You're welcome. We're hyper
cautious, huh. Just couched inso many caveats. You know, this
(13:10):
is just my opinion. And itcouldn't be that you could do
this a little different. Andlike, they're, they're terrified
that they're going to offend me,which I don't really blame them
for. I assume it comes fromexperience. When people ask for
advice, and then you give it tothem, they get, they get very
offended.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (13:29):
There is that old saying giving advice is
dangerous. giving good advice isdeadly.
Margarita Gurri (13:37):
It can be
Yonason Goldson (13:38):
interesting if we if we really want to improve
if we really want to make ourown lives better. You know, I've
pointed out before that theHebrew word for rebuke is
related to the word that meansto validate. Because when I'm
giving you correction, I'msaying I believe that you have
the capacity to do better. And Iwant to help you become a better
(14:01):
version of yourself. And whywould we not appreciate that?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (14:05):
As long as that is the intent. I mean, you
can certainly be rebuked bypeople whose whole goal is to
tear you down. That's the thing.
Yeah.
Margarita Gurri (14:14):
And some people give us negative feedback,
especially people when we'reyounger, because they're afraid
we're going to break our heartswith failure. And so they do
more damage by setting thatlimit of what we should do. I
had someone told me I was tookind, that I should not get a
higher degree. And I I luckily,I thought it was kind of funny.
(14:37):
So I didn't, you know, did Ihave a big brother? So I have a
thick skin, you know, and so Iwas thinking all the time thanks
for for helping me not take somecriticism seriously. And I think
many people get very beaten downby what they're not allowed to
do. Or like in your case, youknow, they miss judge you
because of who you are. Mm hmm.
I so One of your one of yourstories that that I was just
(15:01):
shaking my head at is you beingtold that you were average? Oh,
yeah. Which I think is funny asall get out. Now on the one
hand, I know that that spurredyou on without even talking to
is you have such a fightingspirit. I mean, PhD records,
you've done this, you've donethat. I mean, you're all over
the place with super success. SoI know it didn't stop you. I'm
(15:23):
sure it hurt you.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (15:26):
I'm sure for many years. Yes. But
Margarita Gurri (15:28):
you didn't back from it. Yeah. What helped you
come back from it? Now? That'snot the question I was going to
ask. But what did I know?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (15:34):
Okay. Yeah.
So Well, the fact that I wasaverage, so when my father
wanted to marry me off when Iwas 18. And yes, that is exactly
what it sounds like, he marriedme off at 18. I wanted to do
what I was supposed to do. I wasa good girl. And you know, I'm a
woman. And I certainly can'tlead because I'm too emotional.
And so when my father picked himin that I should marry I did.
And so long story, I won't getinto it. It's funny story. But I
(15:57):
ended up getting out of it.
Because the drug cartel he gotinvolved with didn't like me,
and they wanted me out of theway. And so fortunately for me,
they convinced him that he coulddo better than me, and he'd be
better off without me. So hethrew me out. Very smart of you,
good strategy. And so but I cameout of that marriage, and I felt
like a failure. And my fathercalled me and gave me the whole
(16:18):
speech about if I had beenappropriately submissive, I
would have been able to make itwork. And I felt a lot of shame.
A lot of, I failed, I didn't dowhat I was supposed to do. Now
I'm gonna go to hell like all ofthe things. And it took me a
long time to realize I can't doanything about that. And so I
can either stay here in thisshame space and do nothing with
(16:39):
my life, or I can make a choice.
And so I made the choice to makemade my own mistake, I married a
narcissistic closeted bisexual,but that's a different story.
Margarita Gurri (16:47):
That's that.
That sounds interesting, though.
If someone is in that shame,space, what do you suggest we
tell them? So we can be ofsupport?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (16:57):
Okay, so the thing about shame is that it is
self induced. It's like guilt.
Other people can pack your bags,but you have to choose to go on
a guilt trip. I'm gonna disagreewith you. You don't think
external? Well, so it's put onyou, but you can choose not to
accept it. And that's what Idecided is yes, my dad could
shame me. And he could say allthese things. And he could teach
(17:19):
me Yes, yes. And I can eitherchoose to take that as valid and
feel it and stay there. Or Icould say, No, you're wrong. And
I'm not going to tolerate that.
And I'm going to do somethingelse. And that's when I say it's
x, when it's its internal, itmeans I get a choice whether I'm
going to accept that baggage.
Margarita Gurri (17:38):
And you did not?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (17:39):
I did not I did a little while.
Margarita Gurri (17:41):
Well, okay, because good girls listen to
what their daddy say. But No,daddy is perfect. Even they do
the best they can. And sometimesit's just wrong. So what do we
say to somebody who is limitingthemselves? Because of that
shame space?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (18:02):
Well, I mean, you're asking me, but I
think you probably have just asmuch advice on this as I
Margarita Gurri (18:07):
do. But I figured that your story, and
you're very eloquent about it.
And this is kind of what you do.
How do we move someonethoughtfully beyond the shame
space?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (18:18):
So the thing that I do with my clients is I
give them a chance to tell thestory. Tell me your perception
of what actually happened. Youknow, the difference between
perception and reality?
Perception is what you thinkreality is what I think.
Margarita Gurri (18:32):
That's good.
That's very good.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (18:35):
So my question is, what is your
reality? And then I startgently, kind of testing that
well, is that what happened? Isthat Is that true? Do you
believe that? What if it wasdifferent? What would it look
like if it was different? Andwhen you gently invite someone
and I use a motivationalinterviewing techniques, which
I'm sure you're familiar withDoc, it when you gently invite
(18:58):
someone to observe themselvesand kind of look at what could I
make different and what would itbe like if it were different?
They'll move through on yourown. What I know doesn't work is
when you tell people stopfeeling that way and change it.
Margarita Gurri (19:10):
Snap out of it.
Yeah. Right.
Yonason Goldson (19:12):
Get over it.
Margarita Gurri (19:15):
Talk about more shame, huh? Well, the world is
grateful that you got out of it.
Thank you. I am too. Yeah, andyou're doing some pretty amazing
things. So now rabbi, here's thequestion you and I always get to
and I'm gonna ask both of youthis. What is all of this have
to do with it? So either you cananswer or
Dr. Robin Odegaard (19:34):
you go first. I've been talking a lot.
Well, if you
Margarita Gurri (19:37):
are the guest, but Rabbi always has good
answers.
Yonason Goldson (19:41):
You know, one of the things that I seem to be
dealing with a lot today, todaythese days is things not working
the way they're supposed to andpeople not doing what they're
supposed to and you could lookat it just as a matter of
competence. If what is it the isit the Peter Principle that
(20:08):
every person rises to his levelof incompetence? Yes, the Peter
Principle, which, which is asort of a systemic problem that
we won't go into too much. Butif I commit myself to do a job,
what you mentioned Dr. Robin, Icouldn't learn the skills
myself. And if I'm determined todo the job, then I, I'm
(20:30):
obligated to learn the skillsmyself, or I'm obligated to find
someone else to whom I cansubcontract. And if I don't
choose one of those respects,one of those options, then I'm
really guaranteeing the job isnot going to be done properly.
And that is unethical. Becausepeople are going to suffer, if
(20:54):
I'm not doing doing my job well,and certainly I'm going to
suffer. So inflicting pain onmyself is also unethical. I
shouldn't be doing that either.
So finding, making thatcommitment, and developing the
skills and developing a plan,the strategy, this is all
integral to making sure thatthings get done the way they
(21:17):
need to get done for the benefitof all of us.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (21:24):
Yeah, and in my space, kind of piggybacking
on that, I see a lot of coacheswho they do the easy part of the
job, which is going intosomebody's emotional attic, and
emptying up the trunk of alltheir emotional stuff, and doing
therapy when they're notqualified to do therapy. And
what they do is they end upleaving all of the emotional
stuff laying all over the attic,and they hold up the trunk and
(21:47):
say, Oh, your trunk is empty,you're okay, now off you go. And
instead of the stuff being in atrunk, where at least it was
safe and not being tripped overis now laying all over the place
for people to trip over. And soI think that, ethically, it's my
responsibility to make sure thatI leave people in a better place
than I found them, and not gointo situations that I'm not
(22:07):
qualified to handle. And notallow people to end up in a
space where they're unable tomanage their daily life because
they came to talk to me, I thinkthat's unethical. And I see it a
lot in the coaching space. Andit frustrates me.
Margarita Gurri (22:23):
When we see ethics in what you do. Rabbi,
can I tell the story about whenDr. Robin was on your on your
podcast? Oh, yeah, sure. One ofthe things the rabbi told me,
which touched my heart, was youwere talking about a topic and
then you asked, shall I recusemyself? Because you had had this
similar experience? And I thinkthat very few people have the
(22:48):
courage and the ethicalfoundation and awareness to ask,
is that something I should notaddress? Because it's the
conflict of interest? Or Ishould recuse myself? Because
maybe I'm too close to thesubject. Maybe I won't answer it
in a thoughtful enough way. Andthat kind of ethical courage is
(23:10):
what I see in many of yourworks. And I think that one of
the things one of the ways thatthe rabbi and I talk about
people being ethical, is byaspiring to grapple with the
gray which is the rabbi's goodbook and podcast. It's got a
podcast where invites people inthe grappled agree on various
ethical issues, which I finddelightful.
Yonason Goldson (23:33):
Talking about, and you know, I would even add
to what you're saying, doctor,the doctor, I mean, you could
have just as easily thought orsaid, well, since I went through
this case, myself, I am noweminently qualified expert
Dr. Robin Odegaard (23:46):
now, rather than
Yonason Goldson (23:49):
maybe. And that may, in fact, be true.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (23:52):
But you know, what's interesting,
though, is I ended up arguingfor the side of the conversation
that I didn't choose when I wasin the situation,
Yonason Goldson (24:00):
yes, which which was doubly so doubly
intellectual integrity. Andasked the question, should I be
on the show, and you let me makethe call as the host. And
that's, you know, it goes backto your point, which I love that
perception is my reality is byhow you say it. My perception is
(24:22):
what I think and reality is whatyou think
Dr. Robin Odegaard (24:24):
perceptions, what you think reality is what I
think.
Margarita Gurri (24:27):
Yeah, I think that's I think that's perfect. I
think being ethical, is a callto action. And I think that one
of the things you're you'reproposing, I think, is that
there's ethics as a coach, thatare going to propel you to do
the very best for your clients,and to help them reach their
(24:50):
ultimate choice for performance.
I mean, not everyone chooses tobe high performance.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (24:56):
So and that's the thing. I can't push
someone into something thatisn't for them that would work
on f4 for
Margarita Gurri (25:01):
them, then that may not everyone's ready for
that now. I think all of us, thethree of us do coaching, we've
all said, perhaps this is notthe time for you to do this.
It's it. Why don't we, you know,why don't we, you know, revisit
this conversation, when you'reready to address this issue or
(25:23):
when things are going better inyour life or whatever. Certainly
all of us have done them. Andwith good results, it's
interesting.
Yonason Goldson (25:34):
Well, one of all our heroes, I presume, is
Abraham Lincoln. But you know,he's one of those figures that
we learn about for a few days inlike second grade. And then
think we know who he was. I readthe biography, a Team of Rivals,
which just puts him in such anextraordinary light. He's
(25:56):
surrounded him with people whodidn't think like he did. And
didn't think like each other.
And then he was warned not to.
And but he wanted, he wanteddifferent voices. And he
listened to all of them. Andthen he would make choices that
(26:16):
rum was universally unpopular.
Because he had this incrediblesupernatural sense of timing.
And even though when somethingwas the right thing to do, he
recognized it wasn't the rightmoment to do it. And he had the
the integrity and the courageand the patience to wait when
(26:38):
everybody on one side is tellinghim, you shut it down and
already, and everybody on theother side is saying you
shouldn't do it at all. And towait for the right moment when
it would actually be effective.
Margarita Gurri (26:54):
And isn't that one of the secrets of high
performance? For people to learnhow to listen to their own?
Timing their own instincts?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (27:02):
Yeah, recognizing the timing, knowing
when to when to move, knowingwhen to weight, all of that.
Yeah, definitely.
Margarita Gurri (27:09):
Yeah. And I think being highperformance
takes a whole lot of courage.
And I'm glad that people haveyou, as they, as they work
toward that amazing goal that Ithink makes the world a better
place.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (27:23):
And it requires not compromising to the
mediocre middle, I think thatthat's one of the things that
high performers often do is thatthey give in about things,
because they want to compromisethey want to be rather than
saying, I want to do this andnot in a way that oh, I'm taking
advantage of other people, butthis is what matters to me. And
then you have to deal with Am Ibeing selfish, which is a whole
(27:43):
separate problem andhighperformance
Margarita Gurri (27:45):
Well, that's a whole nother presentation, isn't
it or discussion, the wholeissue of selfishness. Rabbi will
have to redo that one again,too. That's a great topic. Um,
well, speaking of, you know,just other things. I was
intrigued in your bio, that youhave a dog named nebula. I do
and you're teaching nebula to docircus tricks. Yep. I just got
(28:07):
to know about this bliss spill.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (28:09):
Yeah. So well, we got this great little
dog. She's a rescue. I got herDNA done because they told me
that she was a border collie andI grew up with Border Collies
because I grew up on a beefranch. And as soon as we got
there, I was like, this is anose to the ground dog. This is
not an eyes up dog. So I did herDNA. And it came back fox
terrier Pitbull, AustralianShepherd, Doxon snowsure hound.
(28:32):
Wow. So she's super, supersmart. And we had to find a way
to keep her busy because she'sgot one of those mines that if
you don't give her a job, she'llbecome an entrepreneur and you
won't like what she does. And soI just started going on YouTube
and went to the library, gotsome books and started looking
for like, what kind of trickscan that because I taught her
all the basic things like youknow, come sit, stay down, like
(28:54):
all of those, I taught herthose, and like, what else can I
teach her? So I just startedteaching her stuff for fun. And
this past week, actually, forthe very first time, she joined
me on stage when I did akeynote. And the I was doing my
keynote, the five, the powerfive steps paradigm to creating
success out of chaos. And theexample that I use throughout
was teaching her to do ahandstand, because for a dog to
(29:17):
do a handstand is chaos. Itshead down, belly exposed. And so
I use an example throughout. Andthen at the end, she came up and
did like, I don't know, a dozenor so circus tricks with me. So
that was a lot of fun. Firsttime she's ever been on stage.
Margarita Gurri (29:33):
Well, I think that's brilliant. I also like
the idea of your entourage,there'll become entrepreneurs,
but you won't like what they do.
That's a great keynote forleaders in terms of inviting and
inciting people to learn newthings to broaden their scope of
high performance. Yeah, I thinkthat is a great keynote. You
(29:53):
have to keep people is thenebula effect.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (29:58):
Yeah, we call it an epi She was here, she
just walked away.
Margarita Gurri (30:02):
Well, you see, my mind was a rescue to her, her
biggest trick is that she canget anyone to
Dr. Robin Odegaard (30:08):
love her.
Oh, hey, that's good. Yeah,definitely didn't
Margarita Gurri (30:12):
have to teach her that though.
Yonason Goldson (30:15):
The you want your people to be to have
initiative. You know, all thistalk about quiet quitting these
days, want people to feelthey're members of the team,
that they're respected, and thatthey have a certain amount of
tired of this word agency. Butnow that they have autonomy,
they're allowed to takeinitiative. But there has to be
(30:38):
a sufficient structure andrespect for the system. For them
to exercise that autonomy in away that is not the kind of
entrepreneurship that you'reyou're describing?
Margarita Gurri (30:54):
Well, and that's what you're teaching
people how to do createpsychological safety for
themselves and for their teams.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (31:00):
And that requires creating the space
where as a leader, they can cometo me and say, I don't know what
I'm doing. And they don't getshamed and just thrown back in
the fire and said, we'll figureit out.
Margarita Gurri (31:09):
Right, yeah.
And even I don't like what I'mdoing, or I don't think this
works. You know, I think that Iforget where, where we're that
maybe in a talk show that Ilistened to of yours. You talked
about getting excited as aleader when people disagree with
stuff, which I know AbrahamLincoln would appreciate. Yeah.
You know, that kind of thing isinteresting.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (31:30):
And you can end up in that space where
people are overworked,overwhelmed and underutilized.
And that is never good.
Margarita Gurri (31:38):
It is not?
Well, Rob, I do have a word ofthe day that's been inspired by
our Dr. Robin. We do? Well,good.
Yonason Goldson (31:49):
And, actually, a story came to mind, if you
don't mind.
Margarita Gurri (31:54):
I never mind your stories.
Yonason Goldson (31:57):
I don't know if I've told this one before. But
the everybody knows the greatestJewish leader in history was
Moses is torah leader. Thesecond greatest Torah leader was
someone not as well knownoutside the Jewish community as
Rabbi Akiva. And Rebbi. Akivawas an illiterate Shepherd, for
the first 40 years of his life.
And he was tending the sheep ofhis employer who was one of the
(32:22):
wealthiest men in Jerusalem. Andhis master's daughter. It was
Rachel came walking by one day,and we don't know exactly how
the conversation went. Butpresumably, she said, Hello, he
said, Hello. They startedchatting. And she quickly
recognized that this was aperson of extraordinary wisdom,
even though he had no formaleducation. And after further
(32:44):
conversation, she said, youknow, if you would study, you
could become a great sage and agreat leader. And he said, Well,
that's a nice idea. But I am ashepherd, I haven't I have a job
to do. And, you know, back then,you couldn't just go online and
start to take his night collegecourses. While she said
(33:06):
something extraordinary. Shesaid, Well, you have so much
potential if you would commityourself to study, I'd marry
you, and I support you. And, andhe took her up on it, and you
can guess her father was notpleased, not and cut them off.
And they lived in poverty formany years. And he subsequently
(33:28):
became the greatest sage in thehistory of the Jewish people.
Second only to Moses. Wow. notheard of him, either. Well,
many, many habit outside theJewish world. But, you know, she
was an extraordinary coach. Andyou know, you're talking about
(33:51):
being a submissive wife. I don'tthink she saw herself as a
submissive wife. I think she sawherself as a partner, who was
helping someone that shebelieved in, achieved something
extraordinary. And that successwas theirs together. And so we
talked about Dr. Robin talkedvery right at the beginning,
(34:15):
about having a vision of whereyou want to go and crafting a
plan of how you want to getthere. So the word that came to
mind is your gyro. And are youfamiliar with the word Hodge?
Hodge is a pilgrimage and Ibelieve it's derived from this
word gyro. That means a flightor a journey to a more agreeable
(34:38):
location. How do you spell thatright, my H E. G. Ira, gyro.
Thanks. And this really shouldbe in as we should see our lives
as pilgrimage. We are alltravelers and we are all headed
for a final destination. Thatuntil, until we get to the end
(35:04):
of our lives, we are on thatjourney. But there are many
stops along the way. And if I'mnot finding success, if I'm not
finding peace of mind where I amnow then either figuratively or
literally, I need to uprootmyself and move to a situation
(35:26):
where there will be differentstimuli, there will be different
circumstances, I will surroundmyself with different people. I
will find the coaches and thesupporters and the encourager to
the cheerleaders that are goingto help me develop myself
fulfill more of my potential,and live the kind of life that I
(35:48):
want. And you, Dr. Robin aredoing that for the people that
you serve. And really, we shouldall be doing it for the people
around us and look for thepeople that are going to do it
for us. Yeah,
Dr. Robin Odegaard (36:03):
the thing about that is, is you have to
make a choice, you know, I couldstill be living on a 55 acre
catfish farm in a house that wasslab of concrete plywood walls
and a tin roof where I had tocut the grass because it grew
under the walls, where the waterheater was so small that I could
either shave one leg or wash myhair. And I had to make a choice
that that was not going to bethe life that I was going to
(36:25):
lead. And I think that that'sthe first step to going on that
journey is making that choice.
Yonason Goldson (36:32):
And sometimes, you know, in a case like you're
describing, I think many of uswould say, Well, that was you
had a good motivation to getyourself out of there. Many of
us are in situations that youknow, it's not so bad. It's not
a big problems. I'll just I'lljust accept where I am.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (36:54):
It would have been easier for me if I had
just accepted where I was, andas long as far as my family
relationships easier. Yeah, Ithink
Margarita Gurri (37:01):
status quo no matter how miserable is always
in some ways easier to maintainthe Wi Fi. In fact, there's a
lot of chaos that gets createdwhen we decide to shoot for the
moon, or even just less messylife. Maybe the moon is not even
in the scope yet.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (37:19):
Yeah, I talked about default life, which
is kind of the stay alongwhatever path it is, and
creative life, which is you makeit better. And that space
between your default life andyour creative life is where the
chaos happens.
Margarita Gurri (37:32):
Well, so what's your next adventure? Dr. Ramin?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (37:36):
Well, he told me not to talk about work.
So well know
Margarita Gurri (37:39):
that the work you can do then the next one's
woods for fun fact about workfor this one. So for me,
Dr. Robin Odegaard (37:45):
I have my my quick hits podcasts with rabbis
been on it. It's 10 people, onetopic. Sorry for people 10
minutes, one topic. And I reallyenjoy doing that. And so I'm
working on how do I make thateven bigger and better and more
interesting. So that'sdefinitely in my scope of things
that I'm doing. And then forfun, you know, we're coming into
(38:06):
fall. So for me, summertime isfun, because I can bike ride and
I can be outside with the dog.
And we have a little cart forthe dog to ride in on the boat
so she can go bike riding withus. So for fun, I don't know
what's next for me, I got to putdown the garden for the for the
winter. That's up next, I think.
Margarita Gurri (38:21):
Well, that does sound like fun. That's very
good. So final words of wisdomfor our listening audience,
you've given us a lot to thinkabout what is the take home,
Dr. Robin Odegaard (38:31):
I think the take home is is you don't have
to accept the default. You canchoose. And that doesn't mean
you have to, I'm not going tojudge you if you decide that the
default is where you want to be.
That is perfectly fine. But youdo get to choose. I feel like a
lot of people don't feel likethey have choices. And you
always have a choice.
Yonason Goldson (38:50):
I think it's a good way to say it is you can
choose the default, which is notthe same as simply defaulting to
the default. thing that's wellsaid.
Margarita Gurri (39:04):
And I think that people get confused with
between a grand life and achosen life. And for many people
that default a very simple,beautiful life does not have to
be one of one achievement afteranother that is external. It
could be peace and joy and beinga good father, grandmother or
aunt or whatever. You know, agood a good family member good
(39:28):
friends. Those simple lives ourhighperformance lives as well.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (39:33):
I gotta tell you being in two really bad
marriages has made me sothankful for the peaceful,
quiet, wonderful relationship Ihave with a man I'm married to
now.
Margarita Gurri (39:43):
Well, we're happy you found him and chose
him.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (39:48):
had asked him out four times, but
Margarita Gurri (39:51):
we're happy for him to. Yes, that's very nice.
Thank you. I'm glad you foundeach other. Well everyone here
we are with Dr. Ron Robin Dr.
Robin what's the best way peoplecan reach you?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (40:03):
LinkedIn is really easy just because of the
name like Odegaard it's easy tofind me on LinkedIn. My website
is Dr. Robin odegaard.com. Whichif you're on Zoom, you can see
it there and my picture. Thoseare the two best ways to find me
all my contact information is onand
Margarita Gurri (40:19):
Robin is our OB GYN. Odegaard is od e g AE rd.
And that way you can find her.
Well everyone will see you onthe next episode of The rabbi in
the shrink. Thanks for joiningus, and may you reach for your
own moon.
Unknown (40:36):
Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrimp
everyday ethics unscripted tobook Dr. Red Shoe Dr. Margarita
Guri or Rabbi Jonas and Goldsonas speakers or advisors for your
organization, contact them atthe rabbi and the shrink.com
This has been a doctor Red Shoeproduction
Welcome to an episode of The Rabbi and The
Shrink. This is Dr. MargaritaGuri, the shrink, and my
favorite Rabbi Goldson with agood rabbi and I have with you a
high performance conciergecoach. Her name is Dr. Robin
Odegaard. Welcome Dr. Robin.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (00:22):
Hi. Thanks for having me.
Margarita Gurri (00:24):
Now, since you're highperformance, you
don't mind me bragging about youa little bit, right? I would
love it if you would. So inSpanish, we have a saying, quote
as Ethan Latina Leila, whichmeans poor thing doesn't have a
grandmother, which means ifthere's a grandmother around,
she brags about you. So youdon't have to. So I'm going to
brag a little bit. I think wehave a very interesting thinker
(00:44):
here. Dr. Robin comes from theworld of competitive beach
volleyball. And she learned thehard way about what it's like to
not have people have highexpectations of you. Because
you're and I'm, I'm puttingwords in your mouth. Because
you're young, you're beautiful,you're female, the way people
(01:06):
look at you, and you're not verybraggy. So you don't maybe come
across, showing off who you are.
And you use that in a verythoughtful way. To be quite a
thoughtful thinker. You createda bunch of programs. You're a
speaker, you have a TEDxprogram, about creating success
out of chaos, which right now,everyone must be very happy,
(01:27):
because it's been a lot ofchaos. So I'm sure you're busier
than all than ever before. Andyou have you're citing
organizational psychology. Andyou've written three books, the
titles I'm going to read becauseI love them. Stop the drama, The
Ultimate Guide to female teams.
Oh, well, thank you, Dr. Robin.
And the next one, The UltimateGuide to Handling every
(01:50):
disagreement every time. I likethat and how to feed a human the
whole food muse, a whole foodmuscle way. All right, very
cool. Just got many, many yearsin the corporate world and many
years as a coach. I'm welcome.
And tell us please about whatyou do. What makes you a
(02:12):
concierge, high performancepsychology? Coach?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (02:16):
Yeah, so people sometimes call me crisis
coach, sometimes they'll saythat sometimes people will say
that I create success out ofchaos by being a smokejumper.
Like I parachute in and helpfight life's fires from the
inside. I have a client who saysthat I'm the rock for the rocks
and her world, she has to holdeverything together. And if
(02:37):
she's not holding it together,then she's like, you gotta help
me. And so, you know, we're,those are the kinds of things
that I do. I've been reallyfortunate that people trust me
with their lives, like thestories people tell me. So for
example, last fall, I hadsomeone call me just out of the
blue on a Saturday, and he said,Robin, you have to help me. My
(02:57):
dad just went on life support.
And I'm the executor, you haveto help me decide if I'm going
to kill my dad. Ah. And so I getyou know, I when I talk to other
coaches, they always say, Robin,I know when to send somebody to
you because I don't want thecrisis. I don't want the chaos.
I don't want the crazy. They. Sothat makes me different in that
way.
Margarita Gurri (03:20):
Go ahead, grab this. It's
Yonason Goldson (03:21):
a fascinating skill set to have. Because, you
know, Dr. Richard and I oftenobserve that work at
partnership, because I had a bigpicture person, and she's a
detail person who's also handlescrises very well. And thank you,
sir. I'm perfectly happy toallow others to to take that
(03:42):
over. It's good to know thereare people in the world who can
do that, because we need you.
Margarita Gurri (03:46):
Yeah, it is a good skill set. And I think then
it helps you provide a trustingbond with somebody so that they
can move forward to their highperformance lives, which is, I
think, a lovely. So let me askthis. Why is it most of us never
(04:07):
achieve our true highperformance potential?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (04:11):
That is a really loaded question. Well,
thank you. A lot of it is Ithink, if you've ever read the
book, The Big Leap, I think weupper limit ourselves. I think
at some point in our lives, wewere told you're allowed to be
this successful, you're allowedto be this happy. And so we have
that voice in our head thatsays, Oh, I shouldn't do this,
or I can't do this, or I'vetried that that's going to fail
(04:32):
or we have an external voice. Iknow I have family members who
are like, Oh, you shouldn't dothat. Who do you think you are?
And we believe that and so wenever really go out and succeed.
You know, you How do I explainit in a good way? It's easy to
be mediocre because if you don'ttry you can't fail. So if you
only ever tried to do the thingsyou know you can do you're never
(04:54):
going to achieve those stretchgoals.
Yonason Goldson (04:57):
When when Cain brings his offering to God and
it's not accepted. The sage hasexplained that that he brought
not the best of his produce,it's rather brought the best of
his and his was accepted, can'tfigure out what what's the
point, God's not going to eat itanyway, it's not going to eat my
(05:18):
tomatoes. So I might as wellkeep the good stuff for myself.
And he's upset that he's not,he's not recognized. And God
comes to him and says that ifyou do, well, if you do you're
capable of doing, you will berecognized. And if not, sin is
crouching at the door. And inJudaism, the doorway is a symbol
(05:41):
of transition. And transition ishard. We like to stay in our
comfort zones. So when weapproach a door in life, any
point of opportunity orpotential growth, there's this
little voice saying, Don't doit. It's too risky. It's not
worth it. It's not worth takinga chance, just stay where you're
comfortable. And then if we getthrough the door, another voice
(06:04):
starts saying, wow, look whatyou accomplished. Isn't that
wonderful? You can rest now. Butreally, what we should be doing
is always looking for the nextdoorway to go through.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (06:17):
After you do have yourself on the back. Give
you a minute. Yeah,
Yonason Goldson (06:20):
you get a minute.
Margarita Gurri (06:21):
And then without getting demoralized,
that there's more and more andmore. No, my dog is my high
performance coach, you see herin the background, ah, see helps
you always keep going for thenext and not take ourselves too
seriously, that our failures,our, our, our what we're capable
of. It's only the invitation formore. So let's say someone in
(06:45):
the audience is struggling withthe issue of wanting to or
thinking they deserve to be highperformance. What do you say,
Dr. Robin?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (06:54):
Well, so the first thing you have to do is
figure out what is it you want?
So I have kind of a five stepparadigm that I kind of help
people walk through what is it Iwould love to share with you? So
the first thing is, what do Iwant? What is my what is my
goal? And a lot of times whenyou please ask people that
they're like, Well, I don'tknow, I don't have a goal. So
then flip it around. Well, whatis not working right now? Where
are you right now that isn'tmaking you happy that isn't
(07:16):
giving you fulfillment? Becauseif you can talk sometimes we're
better about talking aboutwhat's negative. And if you can
talk about what's negative, thenyou can say, okay, now I have a
goal, I want that to stophappening. What does that look
like? So figured out your goal?
What is it you want to havehappen? And if you have to look
at the negative do that, thenthe second piece of it is okay,
(07:38):
what's my strategy? What's myplan? And you have to do problem
deconstruction, because nowyou've got this big goal. But
you got to figure out how do Ibreak it down into something
that's actually doable? Sowhat's the first step, and the
suggestion I like to give peopleis your first step should could
fit into two categories. One, itshould be small enough that you
(07:58):
can take it and if it doesn'twork, you can back out of it. So
don't take a huge step in and belike, well, now I'm stuck out
here. This didn't work, smallstep that I'll give you
information. That's the firstpiece got to give you
information. Am I on the rightpath? And is it small enough
that if it doesn't work, I canback out of it? So figure out
your strategy, take a small stepthat gives you information if
you're heading the right way.
The next piece is knowledge orskills. What do I need to know
(08:20):
or be able to do that I can'tcurrently, and that doesn't mean
oh, I have to go out and learnit. Let me go spend 10 years in
school because a lot of peopleget stuck in the knowledge and
skill space, because they spendall kinds of time learning and
they never actually take action.
So it might make sense for youto hire someone. For example, if
(08:42):
you need someone with my skillset, could you learn to do what
I do? Sure, give yourself 15years, you could probably do
what I do. But hire me we canget you through the process in
three months, six months. Solook at the skills and knowledge
that you need find out shouldyou hire someone? Or should you
learn it? Sometimes it makessense to hire someone. Those are
kind of the three easy parts.
The next piece is yourpsychological barriers. And I'm
(09:04):
sure doctor you see this. Theseare the saboteurs the Upper
Limiting the things that tell meOh, I can't do that. I shouldn't
do that, oh, I tried that itdidn't work. Whatever. What are
your psychological barriers andsometimes the hardest part is
recognizing that. So have aconversation with someone bring
someone in that's going to helpyou recognize your psychological
(09:25):
barriers and then hold youaccountable to overcoming them.
And the last piece, peopleplaces things and habits that
either help or hurt. Very oftenwe have habits in our lives. We
don't even recognize or arelimiting our ability to succeed.
So that's something I like tolook at with clients. So that's
my kind of five step paradigmand they don't have to go in
(09:46):
that order. That's just themortar there in my brain. But
that's how I do it.
Yonason Goldson (09:52):
You know we have an expression in Judaism
change your place, change yourfortune and If you've sort of
put an interesting angle on itthat I hadn't really thought
about before, that it's notmerely something that's
metaphysical, that's somethingthat is deeply psychological,
(10:12):
that when I'm in the same place,literally or figuratively, then
I'm likely to keep doing thesame things. Because the
environment is connected withthose habits. And when I put
myself in a different place,then naturally, I'm going to be
exposed to different stimulithat are going to help me
respond differently and activelyand change the things that need
(10:34):
to be changed.
Margarita Gurri (10:36):
Yeah, that takes a lot of courage. It does.
So by the time that someone hasdecided that they are going to
try and change their place, whatpercentage do you think actually
follow through?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (10:52):
Well, I was gonna say, unfortunately, but
maybe fortunately, the peoplewho come to me are a higher
percentage likely to actuallychange because they've self
selected into working withsomeone like me, it's the people
who never self select intogetting help and finding out
their their barriers and doingit. So I don't know, I don't
have a good percentage, becausethe people who work with me a
(11:13):
lot of them do create a lot ofchange.
Margarita Gurri (11:16):
I would imagine that I think that you create a
safe space for people I can seein your reading and in your,
your, your writing. And thenyour presentations are very
thoughtful action.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (11:29):
Thank you.
And then the thing is, I've beenthrough chaos, you know, some of
my personal story is very, verychaotic. And so very rarely can
a client come to me and sharesomething where I can't say,
Yeah, been there done thatunderstand.
Margarita Gurri (11:43):
But I don't think we have to be there and
have been through that, in orderto be thoughtful. No, you don't,
it just helps. And, and I thinksometimes, sometimes people
who've been through experiencesdo themselves and others a
disservice by talking about ittoo much. Because there's only
one way through it. Yes, and youare an expert, regardless of
(12:04):
what your experience is, youhave an amazing skill set in
terms of how you think, and howyou create solutions. And I
think talking about ourselves issometimes very limiting. And I
see that you don't do that allthe time. Some people do do that
all the time. And it limitstheir the scope of what they
Yonason Goldson (12:23):
offer. I'm gonna get back to the point
about being courageous. It'sreally fascinating to me, I
recently had an opportunity tosolicit a number of people for
to critique some work that I wasdoing. And the responses were
fascinating. Because the oneswho had suggestions on how I can
(12:47):
improve, I mean, it's alwaysnice when people tell you, Oh,
it's wonderful. It's great. It'sterrific. You know, we like to
hear that. But it's much moreuseful. When people tell you,
here's how you can improve. Andsome of the respondents were
very direct, which I appreciateit. You're welcome. We're hyper
cautious, huh. Just couched inso many caveats. You know, this
(13:10):
is just my opinion. And itcouldn't be that you could do
this a little different. Andlike, they're, they're terrified
that they're going to offend me,which I don't really blame them
for. I assume it comes fromexperience. When people ask for
advice, and then you give it tothem, they get, they get very
offended.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (13:29):
There is that old saying giving advice is
dangerous. giving good advice isdeadly.
Margarita Gurri (13:37):
It can be
Yonason Goldson (13:38):
interesting if we if we really want to improve
if we really want to make ourown lives better. You know, I've
pointed out before that theHebrew word for rebuke is
related to the word that meansto validate. Because when I'm
giving you correction, I'msaying I believe that you have
the capacity to do better. And Iwant to help you become a better
(14:01):
version of yourself. And whywould we not appreciate that?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (14:05):
As long as that is the intent. I mean, you
can certainly be rebuked bypeople whose whole goal is to
tear you down. That's the thing.
Yeah.
Margarita Gurri (14:14):
And some people give us negative feedback,
especially people when we'reyounger, because they're afraid
we're going to break our heartswith failure. And so they do
more damage by setting thatlimit of what we should do. I
had someone told me I was tookind, that I should not get a
higher degree. And I I luckily,I thought it was kind of funny.
(14:37):
So I didn't, you know, did Ihave a big brother? So I have a
thick skin, you know, and so Iwas thinking all the time thanks
for for helping me not take somecriticism seriously. And I think
many people get very beaten downby what they're not allowed to
do. Or like in your case, youknow, they miss judge you
because of who you are. Mm hmm.
I so One of your one of yourstories that that I was just
(15:01):
shaking my head at is you beingtold that you were average? Oh,
yeah. Which I think is funny asall get out. Now on the one
hand, I know that that spurredyou on without even talking to
is you have such a fightingspirit. I mean, PhD records,
you've done this, you've donethat. I mean, you're all over
the place with super success. SoI know it didn't stop you. I'm
(15:23):
sure it hurt you.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (15:26):
I'm sure for many years. Yes. But
Margarita Gurri (15:28):
you didn't back from it. Yeah. What helped you
come back from it? Now? That'snot the question I was going to
ask. But what did I know?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (15:34):
Okay. Yeah.
So Well, the fact that I wasaverage, so when my father
wanted to marry me off when Iwas 18. And yes, that is exactly
what it sounds like, he marriedme off at 18. I wanted to do
what I was supposed to do. I wasa good girl. And you know, I'm a
woman. And I certainly can'tlead because I'm too emotional.
And so when my father picked himin that I should marry I did.
And so long story, I won't getinto it. It's funny story. But I
(15:57):
ended up getting out of it.
Because the drug cartel he gotinvolved with didn't like me,
and they wanted me out of theway. And so fortunately for me,
they convinced him that he coulddo better than me, and he'd be
better off without me. So hethrew me out. Very smart of you,
good strategy. And so but I cameout of that marriage, and I felt
like a failure. And my fathercalled me and gave me the whole
(16:18):
speech about if I had beenappropriately submissive, I
would have been able to make itwork. And I felt a lot of shame.
A lot of, I failed, I didn't dowhat I was supposed to do. Now
I'm gonna go to hell like all ofthe things. And it took me a
long time to realize I can't doanything about that. And so I
can either stay here in thisshame space and do nothing with
(16:39):
my life, or I can make a choice.
And so I made the choice to makemade my own mistake, I married a
narcissistic closeted bisexual,but that's a different story.
Margarita Gurri (16:47):
That's that.
That sounds interesting, though.
If someone is in that shame,space, what do you suggest we
tell them? So we can be ofsupport?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (16:57):
Okay, so the thing about shame is that it is
self induced. It's like guilt.
Other people can pack your bags,but you have to choose to go on
a guilt trip. I'm gonna disagreewith you. You don't think
external? Well, so it's put onyou, but you can choose not to
accept it. And that's what Idecided is yes, my dad could
shame me. And he could say allthese things. And he could teach
(17:19):
me Yes, yes. And I can eitherchoose to take that as valid and
feel it and stay there. Or Icould say, No, you're wrong. And
I'm not going to tolerate that.
And I'm going to do somethingelse. And that's when I say it's
x, when it's its internal, itmeans I get a choice whether I'm
going to accept that baggage.
Margarita Gurri (17:38):
And you did not?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (17:39):
I did not I did a little while.
Margarita Gurri (17:41):
Well, okay, because good girls listen to
what their daddy say. But No,daddy is perfect. Even they do
the best they can. And sometimesit's just wrong. So what do we
say to somebody who is limitingthemselves? Because of that
shame space?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (18:02):
Well, I mean, you're asking me, but I
think you probably have just asmuch advice on this as I
Margarita Gurri (18:07):
do. But I figured that your story, and
you're very eloquent about it.
And this is kind of what you do.
How do we move someonethoughtfully beyond the shame
space?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (18:18):
So the thing that I do with my clients is I
give them a chance to tell thestory. Tell me your perception
of what actually happened. Youknow, the difference between
perception and reality?
Perception is what you thinkreality is what I think.
Margarita Gurri (18:32):
That's good.
That's very good.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (18:35):
So my question is, what is your
reality? And then I startgently, kind of testing that
well, is that what happened? Isthat Is that true? Do you
believe that? What if it wasdifferent? What would it look
like if it was different? Andwhen you gently invite someone
and I use a motivationalinterviewing techniques, which
I'm sure you're familiar withDoc, it when you gently invite
(18:58):
someone to observe themselvesand kind of look at what could I
make different and what would itbe like if it were different?
They'll move through on yourown. What I know doesn't work is
when you tell people stopfeeling that way and change it.
Margarita Gurri (19:10):
Snap out of it.
Yeah. Right.
Yonason Goldson (19:12):
Get over it.
Margarita Gurri (19:15):
Talk about more shame, huh? Well, the world is
grateful that you got out of it.
Thank you. I am too. Yeah, andyou're doing some pretty amazing
things. So now rabbi, here's thequestion you and I always get to
and I'm gonna ask both of youthis. What is all of this have
to do with it? So either you cananswer or
Dr. Robin Odegaard (19:34):
you go first. I've been talking a lot.
Well, if you
Margarita Gurri (19:37):
are the guest, but Rabbi always has good
answers.
Yonason Goldson (19:41):
You know, one of the things that I seem to be
dealing with a lot today, todaythese days is things not working
the way they're supposed to andpeople not doing what they're
supposed to and you could lookat it just as a matter of
competence. If what is it the isit the Peter Principle that
(20:08):
every person rises to his levelof incompetence? Yes, the Peter
Principle, which, which is asort of a systemic problem that
we won't go into too much. Butif I commit myself to do a job,
what you mentioned Dr. Robin, Icouldn't learn the skills
myself. And if I'm determined todo the job, then I, I'm
(20:30):
obligated to learn the skillsmyself, or I'm obligated to find
someone else to whom I cansubcontract. And if I don't
choose one of those respects,one of those options, then I'm
really guaranteeing the job isnot going to be done properly.
And that is unethical. Becausepeople are going to suffer, if
(20:54):
I'm not doing doing my job well,and certainly I'm going to
suffer. So inflicting pain onmyself is also unethical. I
shouldn't be doing that either.
So finding, making thatcommitment, and developing the
skills and developing a plan,the strategy, this is all
integral to making sure thatthings get done the way they
(21:17):
need to get done for the benefitof all of us.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (21:24):
Yeah, and in my space, kind of piggybacking
on that, I see a lot of coacheswho they do the easy part of the
job, which is going intosomebody's emotional attic, and
emptying up the trunk of alltheir emotional stuff, and doing
therapy when they're notqualified to do therapy. And
what they do is they end upleaving all of the emotional
stuff laying all over the attic,and they hold up the trunk and
(21:47):
say, Oh, your trunk is empty,you're okay, now off you go. And
instead of the stuff being in atrunk, where at least it was
safe and not being tripped overis now laying all over the place
for people to trip over. And soI think that, ethically, it's my
responsibility to make sure thatI leave people in a better place
than I found them, and not gointo situations that I'm not
(22:07):
qualified to handle. And notallow people to end up in a
space where they're unable tomanage their daily life because
they came to talk to me, I thinkthat's unethical. And I see it a
lot in the coaching space. Andit frustrates me.
Margarita Gurri (22:23):
When we see ethics in what you do. Rabbi,
can I tell the story about whenDr. Robin was on your on your
podcast? Oh, yeah, sure. One ofthe things the rabbi told me,
which touched my heart, was youwere talking about a topic and
then you asked, shall I recusemyself? Because you had had this
similar experience? And I thinkthat very few people have the
(22:48):
courage and the ethicalfoundation and awareness to ask,
is that something I should notaddress? Because it's the
conflict of interest? Or Ishould recuse myself? Because
maybe I'm too close to thesubject. Maybe I won't answer it
in a thoughtful enough way. Andthat kind of ethical courage is
(23:10):
what I see in many of yourworks. And I think that one of
the things one of the ways thatthe rabbi and I talk about
people being ethical, is byaspiring to grapple with the
gray which is the rabbi's goodbook and podcast. It's got a
podcast where invites people inthe grappled agree on various
ethical issues, which I finddelightful.
Yonason Goldson (23:33):
Talking about, and you know, I would even add
to what you're saying, doctor,the doctor, I mean, you could
have just as easily thought orsaid, well, since I went through
this case, myself, I am noweminently qualified expert
Dr. Robin Odegaard (23:46):
now, rather than
Yonason Goldson (23:49):
maybe. And that may, in fact, be true.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (23:52):
But you know, what's interesting,
though, is I ended up arguingfor the side of the conversation
that I didn't choose when I wasin the situation,
Yonason Goldson (24:00):
yes, which which was doubly so doubly
intellectual integrity. Andasked the question, should I be
on the show, and you let me makethe call as the host. And
that's, you know, it goes backto your point, which I love that
perception is my reality is byhow you say it. My perception is
(24:22):
what I think and reality is whatyou think
Dr. Robin Odegaard (24:24):
perceptions, what you think reality is what I
think.
Margarita Gurri (24:27):
Yeah, I think that's I think that's perfect. I
think being ethical, is a callto action. And I think that one
of the things you're you'reproposing, I think, is that
there's ethics as a coach, thatare going to propel you to do
the very best for your clients,and to help them reach their
(24:50):
ultimate choice for performance.
I mean, not everyone chooses tobe high performance.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (24:56):
So and that's the thing. I can't push
someone into something thatisn't for them that would work
on f4 for
Margarita Gurri (25:01):
them, then that may not everyone's ready for
that now. I think all of us, thethree of us do coaching, we've
all said, perhaps this is notthe time for you to do this.
It's it. Why don't we, you know,why don't we, you know, revisit
this conversation, when you'reready to address this issue or
(25:23):
when things are going better inyour life or whatever. Certainly
all of us have done them. Andwith good results, it's
interesting.
Yonason Goldson (25:34):
Well, one of all our heroes, I presume, is
Abraham Lincoln. But you know,he's one of those figures that
we learn about for a few days inlike second grade. And then
think we know who he was. I readthe biography, a Team of Rivals,
which just puts him in such anextraordinary light. He's
(25:56):
surrounded him with people whodidn't think like he did. And
didn't think like each other.
And then he was warned not to.
And but he wanted, he wanteddifferent voices. And he
listened to all of them. Andthen he would make choices that
(26:16):
rum was universally unpopular.
Because he had this incrediblesupernatural sense of timing.
And even though when somethingwas the right thing to do, he
recognized it wasn't the rightmoment to do it. And he had the
the integrity and the courageand the patience to wait when
(26:38):
everybody on one side is tellinghim, you shut it down and
already, and everybody on theother side is saying you
shouldn't do it at all. And towait for the right moment when
it would actually be effective.
Margarita Gurri (26:54):
And isn't that one of the secrets of high
performance? For people to learnhow to listen to their own?
Timing their own instincts?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (27:02):
Yeah, recognizing the timing, knowing
when to when to move, knowingwhen to weight, all of that.
Yeah, definitely.
Margarita Gurri (27:09):
Yeah. And I think being highperformance
takes a whole lot of courage.
And I'm glad that people haveyou, as they, as they work
toward that amazing goal that Ithink makes the world a better
place.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (27:23):
And it requires not compromising to the
mediocre middle, I think thatthat's one of the things that
high performers often do is thatthey give in about things,
because they want to compromisethey want to be rather than
saying, I want to do this andnot in a way that oh, I'm taking
advantage of other people, butthis is what matters to me. And
then you have to deal with Am Ibeing selfish, which is a whole
(27:43):
separate problem andhighperformance
Margarita Gurri (27:45):
Well, that's a whole nother presentation, isn't
it or discussion, the wholeissue of selfishness. Rabbi will
have to redo that one again,too. That's a great topic. Um,
well, speaking of, you know,just other things. I was
intrigued in your bio, that youhave a dog named nebula. I do
and you're teaching nebula to docircus tricks. Yep. I just got
(28:07):
to know about this bliss spill.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (28:09):
Yeah. So well, we got this great little
dog. She's a rescue. I got herDNA done because they told me
that she was a border collie andI grew up with Border Collies
because I grew up on a beefranch. And as soon as we got
there, I was like, this is anose to the ground dog. This is
not an eyes up dog. So I did herDNA. And it came back fox
terrier Pitbull, AustralianShepherd, Doxon snowsure hound.
(28:32):
Wow. So she's super, supersmart. And we had to find a way
to keep her busy because she'sgot one of those mines that if
you don't give her a job, she'llbecome an entrepreneur and you
won't like what she does. And soI just started going on YouTube
and went to the library, gotsome books and started looking
for like, what kind of trickscan that because I taught her
all the basic things like youknow, come sit, stay down, like
(28:54):
all of those, I taught herthose, and like, what else can I
teach her? So I just startedteaching her stuff for fun. And
this past week, actually, forthe very first time, she joined
me on stage when I did akeynote. And the I was doing my
keynote, the five, the powerfive steps paradigm to creating
success out of chaos. And theexample that I use throughout
was teaching her to do ahandstand, because for a dog to
(29:17):
do a handstand is chaos. Itshead down, belly exposed. And so
I use an example throughout. Andthen at the end, she came up and
did like, I don't know, a dozenor so circus tricks with me. So
that was a lot of fun. Firsttime she's ever been on stage.
Margarita Gurri (29:33):
Well, I think that's brilliant. I also like
the idea of your entourage,there'll become entrepreneurs,
but you won't like what they do.
That's a great keynote forleaders in terms of inviting and
inciting people to learn newthings to broaden their scope of
high performance. Yeah, I thinkthat is a great keynote. You
(29:53):
have to keep people is thenebula effect.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (29:58):
Yeah, we call it an epi She was here, she
just walked away.
Margarita Gurri (30:02):
Well, you see, my mind was a rescue to her, her
biggest trick is that she canget anyone to
Dr. Robin Odegaard (30:08):
love her.
Oh, hey, that's good. Yeah,definitely didn't
Margarita Gurri (30:12):
have to teach her that though.
Yonason Goldson (30:15):
The you want your people to be to have
initiative. You know, all thistalk about quiet quitting these
days, want people to feelthey're members of the team,
that they're respected, and thatthey have a certain amount of
tired of this word agency. Butnow that they have autonomy,
they're allowed to takeinitiative. But there has to be
(30:38):
a sufficient structure andrespect for the system. For them
to exercise that autonomy in away that is not the kind of
entrepreneurship that you'reyou're describing?
Margarita Gurri (30:54):
Well, and that's what you're teaching
people how to do createpsychological safety for
themselves and for their teams.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (31:00):
And that requires creating the space
where as a leader, they can cometo me and say, I don't know what
I'm doing. And they don't getshamed and just thrown back in
the fire and said, we'll figureit out.
Margarita Gurri (31:09):
Right, yeah.
And even I don't like what I'mdoing, or I don't think this
works. You know, I think that Iforget where, where we're that
maybe in a talk show that Ilistened to of yours. You talked
about getting excited as aleader when people disagree with
stuff, which I know AbrahamLincoln would appreciate. Yeah.
You know, that kind of thing isinteresting.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (31:30):
And you can end up in that space where
people are overworked,overwhelmed and underutilized.
And that is never good.
Margarita Gurri (31:38):
It is not?
Well, Rob, I do have a word ofthe day that's been inspired by
our Dr. Robin. We do? Well,good.
Yonason Goldson (31:49):
And, actually, a story came to mind, if you
don't mind.
Margarita Gurri (31:54):
I never mind your stories.
Yonason Goldson (31:57):
I don't know if I've told this one before. But
the everybody knows the greatestJewish leader in history was
Moses is torah leader. Thesecond greatest Torah leader was
someone not as well knownoutside the Jewish community as
Rabbi Akiva. And Rebbi. Akivawas an illiterate Shepherd, for
the first 40 years of his life.
And he was tending the sheep ofhis employer who was one of the
(32:22):
wealthiest men in Jerusalem. Andhis master's daughter. It was
Rachel came walking by one day,and we don't know exactly how
the conversation went. Butpresumably, she said, Hello, he
said, Hello. They startedchatting. And she quickly
recognized that this was aperson of extraordinary wisdom,
even though he had no formaleducation. And after further
(32:44):
conversation, she said, youknow, if you would study, you
could become a great sage and agreat leader. And he said, Well,
that's a nice idea. But I am ashepherd, I haven't I have a job
to do. And, you know, back then,you couldn't just go online and
start to take his night collegecourses. While she said
(33:06):
something extraordinary. Shesaid, Well, you have so much
potential if you would commityourself to study, I'd marry
you, and I support you. And, andhe took her up on it, and you
can guess her father was notpleased, not and cut them off.
And they lived in poverty formany years. And he subsequently
(33:28):
became the greatest sage in thehistory of the Jewish people.
Second only to Moses. Wow. notheard of him, either. Well,
many, many habit outside theJewish world. But, you know, she
was an extraordinary coach. Andyou know, you're talking about
(33:51):
being a submissive wife. I don'tthink she saw herself as a
submissive wife. I think she sawherself as a partner, who was
helping someone that shebelieved in, achieved something
extraordinary. And that successwas theirs together. And so we
talked about Dr. Robin talkedvery right at the beginning,
(34:15):
about having a vision of whereyou want to go and crafting a
plan of how you want to getthere. So the word that came to
mind is your gyro. And are youfamiliar with the word Hodge?
Hodge is a pilgrimage and Ibelieve it's derived from this
word gyro. That means a flightor a journey to a more agreeable
(34:38):
location. How do you spell thatright, my H E. G. Ira, gyro.
Thanks. And this really shouldbe in as we should see our lives
as pilgrimage. We are alltravelers and we are all headed
for a final destination. Thatuntil, until we get to the end
(35:04):
of our lives, we are on thatjourney. But there are many
stops along the way. And if I'mnot finding success, if I'm not
finding peace of mind where I amnow then either figuratively or
literally, I need to uprootmyself and move to a situation
(35:26):
where there will be differentstimuli, there will be different
circumstances, I will surroundmyself with different people. I
will find the coaches and thesupporters and the encourager to
the cheerleaders that are goingto help me develop myself
fulfill more of my potential,and live the kind of life that I
(35:48):
want. And you, Dr. Robin aredoing that for the people that
you serve. And really, we shouldall be doing it for the people
around us and look for thepeople that are going to do it
for us. Yeah,
Dr. Robin Odegaard (36:03):
the thing about that is, is you have to
make a choice, you know, I couldstill be living on a 55 acre
catfish farm in a house that wasslab of concrete plywood walls
and a tin roof where I had tocut the grass because it grew
under the walls, where the waterheater was so small that I could
either shave one leg or wash myhair. And I had to make a choice
that that was not going to bethe life that I was going to
(36:25):
lead. And I think that that'sthe first step to going on that
journey is making that choice.
Yonason Goldson (36:32):
And sometimes, you know, in a case like you're
describing, I think many of uswould say, Well, that was you
had a good motivation to getyourself out of there. Many of
us are in situations that youknow, it's not so bad. It's not
a big problems. I'll just I'lljust accept where I am.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (36:54):
It would have been easier for me if I had
just accepted where I was, andas long as far as my family
relationships easier. Yeah, Ithink
Margarita Gurri (37:01):
status quo no matter how miserable is always
in some ways easier to maintainthe Wi Fi. In fact, there's a
lot of chaos that gets createdwhen we decide to shoot for the
moon, or even just less messylife. Maybe the moon is not even
in the scope yet.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (37:19):
Yeah, I talked about default life, which
is kind of the stay alongwhatever path it is, and
creative life, which is you makeit better. And that space
between your default life andyour creative life is where the
chaos happens.
Margarita Gurri (37:32):
Well, so what's your next adventure? Dr. Ramin?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (37:36):
Well, he told me not to talk about work.
So well know
Margarita Gurri (37:39):
that the work you can do then the next one's
woods for fun fact about workfor this one. So for me,
Dr. Robin Odegaard (37:45):
I have my my quick hits podcasts with rabbis
been on it. It's 10 people, onetopic. Sorry for people 10
minutes, one topic. And I reallyenjoy doing that. And so I'm
working on how do I make thateven bigger and better and more
interesting. So that'sdefinitely in my scope of things
that I'm doing. And then forfun, you know, we're coming into
(38:06):
fall. So for me, summertime isfun, because I can bike ride and
I can be outside with the dog.
And we have a little cart forthe dog to ride in on the boat
so she can go bike riding withus. So for fun, I don't know
what's next for me, I got to putdown the garden for the for the
winter. That's up next, I think.
Margarita Gurri (38:21):
Well, that does sound like fun. That's very
good. So final words of wisdomfor our listening audience,
you've given us a lot to thinkabout what is the take home,
Dr. Robin Odegaard (38:31):
I think the take home is is you don't have
to accept the default. You canchoose. And that doesn't mean
you have to, I'm not going tojudge you if you decide that the
default is where you want to be.
That is perfectly fine. But youdo get to choose. I feel like a
lot of people don't feel likethey have choices. And you
always have a choice.
Yonason Goldson (38:50):
I think it's a good way to say it is you can
choose the default, which is notthe same as simply defaulting to
the default. thing that's wellsaid.
Margarita Gurri (39:04):
And I think that people get confused with
between a grand life and achosen life. And for many people
that default a very simple,beautiful life does not have to
be one of one achievement afteranother that is external. It
could be peace and joy and beinga good father, grandmother or
aunt or whatever. You know, agood a good family member good
(39:28):
friends. Those simple lives ourhighperformance lives as well.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (39:33):
I gotta tell you being in two really bad
marriages has made me sothankful for the peaceful,
quiet, wonderful relationship Ihave with a man I'm married to
now.
Margarita Gurri (39:43):
Well, we're happy you found him and chose
him.
Dr. Robin Odegaard (39:48):
had asked him out four times, but
Margarita Gurri (39:51):
we're happy for him to. Yes, that's very nice.
Thank you. I'm glad you foundeach other. Well everyone here
we are with Dr. Ron Robin Dr.
Robin what's the best way peoplecan reach you?
Dr. Robin Odegaard (40:03):
LinkedIn is really easy just because of the
name like Odegaard it's easy tofind me on LinkedIn. My website
is Dr. Robin odegaard.com. Whichif you're on Zoom, you can see
it there and my picture. Thoseare the two best ways to find me
all my contact information is onand
Margarita Gurri (40:19):
Robin is our OB GYN. Odegaard is od e g AE rd.
And that way you can find her.
Well everyone will see you onthe next episode of The rabbi in
the shrink. Thanks for joiningus, and may you reach for your
own moon.
Unknown (40:36):
Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrimp
everyday ethics unscripted tobook Dr. Red Shoe Dr. Margarita
Guri or Rabbi Jonas and Goldsonas speakers or advisors for your
organization, contact them atthe rabbi and the shrink.com
This has been a doctor Red Shoeproduction
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