November 17, 2022 • 22 mins
What is the difference between rational and irrational fear?
How often does fear sabotage our success and set us up for failure?
How can unfounded fear lead to unethical decision-making?
These and other questions are tackled when The Rabbi and the Shrink tackle the topic of fear.
Here are the highlights:
FEAR: False Expectations Appearing Real
Why are we so afraid?
How much of irrational fear is rooted in ego?
Don't let fear stop you from doing what's right.
Courage is facing fear, not the absence of fear.
There's the fear of "no," but also the fear of "yes." Which is more debilitating?
We need a "board of advisors" we turn to when we are paralyzed by fear.
Don't be afraid of failure, since failure is the best teacher.
Reframe fear as excitement and eagerness.
If you're not nervous, you're not ready.
Churchill: Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
NASA: Failure to learn from failure is not an option.
Teddy Roosevelt: Not the critic but the man in the arena.
Silence your inner critic and surround yourself with people who will support you through your successes and your failures.
Risk greatness!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Margarita Gurri (00:03):
Welcome to another episode of The Rabbi and
the Shrink. This is Dr.
Margarita Gurri, your shrink,and my favorite Rabbi,
Yonason Goldson (00:11):
Yonason Goldson.
Margarita Gurri (00:12):
Well, the rabbi and I are going to address an
issue that is hard for people tothink about and face its fear.
It's been quoted as the culpritfor many of our bad choices. And
as the hero in motivating manyof our good choices, Rabbi,
let's start off with you. Tellus about fear and ethics.
Yonason Goldson (00:36):
Well, there's a there's an expression I heard,
I'm sure you've heard it. Don'tknow where it comes from. But
they see fear as an acronym. Ithink it's false expectations
appearing real. No, I haven'theard. I think I got it right.
But the, you know, another oneof our great philosophical
(00:58):
works, the path of the just byRabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto,
about 300 years ago, he says aphrase that is always stuck in
my mind. He says, there is fear,and there is fear. He means
there are things that are reallyscary. If you're, if you're
walking through the jungle, thenyou hear the lion's roar, that's
(01:22):
a good reason to be afraid. Ifyour wife your your car breaks
down, or a really bad part oftown, that's a reason to be
afraid. If a person gets adiagnosis of a terrible illness,
I mean, these are all legitimatereasons to be afraid. And that's
(01:44):
one part of the discussion ishow do we deal with legitimate
fear? But I think perhaps themore relevant part is how do we
recognize when we have createdirrational fears in our own
minds, because then we're, we'reharming ourselves, we're causing
(02:04):
ourselves all sorts ofpsychological often physical
problems, for reasons that areof our own making. And that's
where I think we, we, we reallyget ourselves in a lot of
trouble perceiving, reasons tobe afraid, that prevent us from
doing things that are in our ownbest interest.
Margarita Gurri (02:26):
That was that was very well put. I think, you
know, we we recently did anepisode on anger. And one of the
things that I know is anger isalmost never one of the first
emotions, we default to fear. Imean, we default to anger. So
let's say we're really afraid,well, it's easier to be angry
than afraid. It feels better, itfeels stronger. And it's a
(02:49):
reactive response. So let's takefear, I think often feet with
fear. That's not legit. We'reborrowing trouble. The What if
the What If, as my twin sisteris very funny, she say, it's not
time to be it's not time to beupset about it. It's not time to
worry about that. It's not timeto be afraid of that yet. i The
(03:11):
time will come and she'll say,it's not time yet. And I, I
think the whole idea of fear is,so many of us choose lives that
are less than amazing. Becausewe're afraid of something afraid
of failing, afraid ofsucceeding, afraid of looking
foolish. Well, as our childrenalways tell us, we look foolish
(03:32):
anyway, right. So may as well gofor it. You never know how
foolish and unwise and, andridiculous you are until you
have children of various ages.
And they're very quick to informyou. Very humbling. And you
learn a lot. Once they getolder, they realize how
brilliant you are. But then theyhave kids. So you know, the
cycle continues. We can never,we can never get too
(03:55):
overwhelmed, but the whole ideaof fear stopping us. And I think
that the difference between areal fear and irrational fear is
sometimes just the timing andhow we plan on handling.
Yonason Goldson (04:10):
Yeah, and my ethics, you know, and this is
related really completely toanswer your question previously,
that in my ethics keynote, Italked about the three enemies
without ethics and number two isfear. Because when we are
afraid, you
Margarita Gurri (04:23):
know than the three of them because I don't
know if everyone see they shouldsee your, your keynote, but what
Yonason Goldson (04:28):
are the three need to see a live I can't give
away the story. Oh, well, right
Margarita Gurri (04:31):
to have to do it. So number two is the enemy.
Okay.
Yonason Goldson (04:35):
But we'll, we'll go we'll get there. We'll
get to them eventually. Butnumber two, the sphere that you
mentioned the fear of lookingfoolish. That's big. I mean, how
often do you know students arenervous students, you have a
question you're afraid to askit. Because you thought well,
nobody else has asked it. So Imust be the only one that
(04:56):
question and I'm afraid oflooking dumb. And then if
someone then somebody else askedit and as the sigh throughout
the room because everybody hadthat question. Their fear of in
business, work employment isfear of exceeding one's
authority. There's fear ofgetting in trouble. There's fear
(05:22):
of looking incompetent, I askfor help. And these are all ways
we set ourselves up for failure.
Yes, we fail in doing orsupposed to be doing and doing
what we're supposed to be doingis, is ethical. If I take a job,
it's my job to do the job. Andthat means if I need help doing
the job, it's my job to ask forhelp. And when we're afraid of
(05:44):
how we'll look how we'll be seenof what might happen, then we
are we are not allow ourselvesto do what we're supposed to be
doing. And so the answer that Igive is that the the the secret
for combating fear is to fightfear with fear. Because we're
only looking at one side of theequation, all the what ifs. If I
(06:06):
do X, or don't do X, what aboutthe what ifs. The other way if I
default to inaction, if I takethe easy path, because the easy
path is very often not the rightpath. And if I can look at both
sides, at least what I can do isstart to restore a certain
(06:29):
amount of, of equilibrium to mydecision making. Alright, so now
I've got two things I'm afraidof. And if they keep they
balance each other, now I'm in aframe of mind where I can start
looking at them moreobjectively.
Margarita Gurri (06:43):
And the first thing from the psychological
point of view is to askyourself, what is the truth of
this fear? Because some fearsare very realistic. For
instance, some workplaces arenot psychologically safe, you
cannot question things, youcannot point out problems. And
you have to have the courage andyour own ability to ask,
Yonason Goldson (07:05):
who's fear? Is this? Is that the company's
Margarita Gurri (07:08):
fear for people to give input? And so I should
be afraid because I could getfired? If I give my opinion? If
so, is there a way to give myopinion in a way that doesn't
sound like an opinion? Butsounds like their idea? I mean,
they're, I think we have to askourselves, is this mirror them?
If it's them, you have a wholebunch of different
brainstorming. But if it's you,then it's easier to address.
(07:31):
Luckily for me, I have a bigbrother. And so I don't have to
worry about being afraid oflooking foolish or feeling
foolish. He he did plenty ofthat. So I survived that. Thank
you, Joe. I love my big brother.
But, you know, knowing what ismy capability to look foolish,
without having to feel tooashamed? Or too scared? That is
(07:53):
the first thing, how much of itis me? Why are we so afraid?
What are we afraid of?
Yonason Goldson (08:07):
I think we're going to find a theme here
because it came up in ourdiscussion of anger that it
cannot be traced back to ego.
Yes, I
Margarita Gurri (08:13):
think so
Yonason Goldson (08:14):
I think that we're going to find a lot of the
negative character traits havetheir roots in ego.
Margarita Gurri (08:22):
And you have to think about what really is ego.
And you know, in Freud system,ego was a balancing of the what
we want the ID, what feels good,what you want in the moment. And
then the super ego, the shouldsof it all. So ego you can think
about is the practical problemsolver, the mediator, but also I
(08:43):
think the innovator lives in theego. So you have to have the
courage of going beyond whatfeels good. And you have to go
beyond the courage of peoplecensoring you, as they say, this
is not the way it should be. Toinnovate or to
Yonason Goldson (09:01):
pardon? No, I heard somebody say once, like, I
can't cite the stories, but yougot to think of as an acronym
for elbow God out. Yeah. Andthat, again, without getting
into theology of it, the ideathat I am accountable to a
higher authority or a higherstandard or higher set of
values, and that in the in themoment right now, when there is
(09:25):
this person, or this situationand are afraid how people are
going to see me. Right? Thatpushes out that sense of higher
values, higher authority, higherstandards. And that's you know,
it's it's it's the amygdala istaking over. And I'm so
(09:46):
concerned with what people willthink what people will say, and
these maybe people are nevergoing to see it again. Then
maybe people don't even careabout
Margarita Gurri (09:57):
Yeah, I mean, recently, I'm training as you
know, from pilgrimage in ElCamino de Santiago in Spain. And
recently, I bought a big oldbackpack that's going to carry
2025 pounds. So I can do 512miles if I last that long. And
so I'm training. So even me thisgrown up, you know, old lady
(10:19):
with the silver hair power. I'mputting on this backpack going
to the gym thinking I'm gonnalook like such a dork. Well,
luckily, I am a dork. So Ialready have lots of practice.
But even I who've embraced myfull dorkiness as a benefit and
a liability, both aspects of it.
I had to take some deep breathsof saying, I'm embracing my
inner dork, I'm going to looklike a total jerk. And you know
(10:42):
what happened to people came upto me and said, What are you
training for when we got to talkin and some of them even kept me
company, walking in the peoplewho thought it was me for doing
a Dorcy Dorcy thing kept it tothemselves. So some good things
happen. So worrying about fearstopping you is normal. But
letting it stop you not so good.
(11:07):
So I asked everyone out there,what is your fear right now?
What? What fears are stoppingyou from being the best version
of yourself? Being the best lovepartner, parent and neighbor,
best friend, teacher, whatever.
What's stopping you? And why?
And have the courage to look atfear in the face? And look at
(11:31):
all of the possible brainstorm,what are all the things you can
do with the sphere, good or bad.
And then choose some that mightbe not only doable, but that
might be of service to you andothers. That's what I would ask
you to do pick a fear andbrainstorming.
Yonason Goldson (11:48):
I think two of the most common fears, we look
across the board, there's thefear of No. If I asked for
something, I won't get it.
There's also the fear of Yes. IfI get it, maybe I won't be up to
the task. And so we live in akind of limbo where we don't
(12:10):
take chances. And we don't giveourselves opportunities. And we
avoid the pain of anticipating,I should say we avoid the
anticipated pain. But we don'tallow ourselves to to get the
rewards.
Margarita Gurri (12:35):
We don't and I think sometimes the rewards are
long and coming because we trysomething and doesn't work. So
effort. One way we can sabotageour effort in the face of any
fear is to try just one thing,and then let it die. So you have
to get up and try it again andget up and try again. But I also
think we can create a course ofadvisors that can enjoy our
(12:56):
failures, and help us plan oursuccesses. And you know, my
father would often say at thetable, what's the biggest
mistake that you either didtoday or saw? And what did what
happened with it. And he wastrying to encourage us to take
risks. You know, it's kind ofinteresting. So our attitude
(13:19):
about failure. I vote that youget excited about it and learn
from it. And if you don't knowwhat to do with it, call
somebody who's wise andpositive. So another way you can
sabotage yourself is callsomebody who is putting us down
or is very negative. Pick youradvisors
Yonason Goldson (13:39):
carefully. I heard something not so long ago
that that's kind of interesting.
I think it applies here. If wethink of fear as perhaps a form
of anxiety, yes. And there is aphysiological reaction to
anxiety. There is? Wellapparently it's the same
physiological reaction as thatto excitement. It can be yes. So
(14:00):
in our own minds, what we can dois talking about reframing is
that if I feel anxious, I feelafraid. I don't know what's
coming. If I can convince myselfI tell myself that, well, this
is an opportunity, anopportunity for growth. It's an
opportunity to learn, it's anopportunity to experience the
(14:23):
unexpected, and try to frame itas something that's worth that's
worthy of excitement. So now I'mtaking the same physiological
response and channeling it in apositive direction, where it can
become empowering, instead ofchanneling in a negative
direction or it's going tobecome debilitating.
Margarita Gurri (14:46):
My friend Dave Bricker would say turn nervous
into service. And I always likedthat that it's true. And my
coach used to say, if you're notnervous, you're not ready. that
you have to have the hype energybecause it's your adrenaline
that you're getting ready tocompete. And some people avoid
(15:07):
competition, like they avoid theplague. And I think being afraid
of coming in second, third orlast is ego. It matters more
what we learn with the race orthe preparation of it. We don't
have to win all the time. Idon't know about you, Rabbi, but
(15:29):
I I've got a lot of greatexperiences of failing and
failing greatly.
Yonason Goldson (15:35):
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, I frequentlyquote, you've heard me quote,
Winston Churchill, that successis going from failure to failure
with no loss of enthusiasm. Andthen the truth is that it's not
a failure, unless we fail tolearn from. Yeah.
Margarita Gurri (15:55):
And if we stop ourselves from continuing the
journey, or if we blame otherpeople, I think those are the
only real failures.
Yonason Goldson (16:03):
Yeah. And in fact, at the recent National
Speakers Association,Association conference, we both
attended one of the speakersthere, I could pronounce his
name, right. Michael C. anelli,I believe, one of the directors
of NASA. And and he talked aboutthe the culture that they had of
failure is not an option. Exceptit doesn't work. Because
(16:27):
sometimes you fail. Yeah. And sohe has reframed it as failure to
learn from failure is not anoption. That is so much better
failure. So it's so powerful andso wise.
Margarita Gurri (16:41):
So many people avoid that paradigm by not
letting themselves fail. I mean,we all know people who, since
high school have stoppedlearning new things. Yeah,
they've decided they're done.
And if they want to choose alife like that, I think that's
to me, obviously, their choice,but I always wish them well and
look forward to them having thespark of courage or curiosity
(17:03):
that would help them startlearning again,
Yonason Goldson (17:09):
there's a wonderful quote by Theodore
Roosevelt, and I don't have ithandy, but he talks about the
difference between a critic andthe Man in the Arena. Yes, it's
covered with dust and sweat, andexperiences, glorious victories,
shattered by defeat, which makeshis life so much more rich than
(17:31):
the one who lives in that greatTwilight, of knowing neither
victory nor defeat.
Margarita Gurri (17:37):
And we know that people have had some
experiences of challenges intheir life. Not only are better
problem solvers, and criticalthinkers, but they have more
compassion for others. Andtherefore, they're more likely
to create a collection offriends and loved ones that add
great value to their lives. Sofail, and you can actually
invite more love in your life.
And I think that's a really goodmotivator to our allow ourselves
(18:01):
the the pain of failure over andover again.
Yonason Goldson (18:08):
And surround yourself with people who will
support you through yourfailures. Yes, and help you
learn the lessons that theyteach.
Margarita Gurri (18:18):
Yeah, and too many people try and support
someone by blaming other people.
Oh, that wasn't you. That wasthe boss, none. How did you
contribute to the failure? Isn'tin every environment, there's a
way to win some environments. Sothe only way to win is to be
unethical. And the only solutionis to either try to change the
system, or try to change theenvironment that you're in.
Yonason Goldson (18:38):
Yeah. And when I was teaching, I would never
fail a student who was tryingmean, either. Um, I wouldn't
give them a great grade. Iwouldn't give them a phase. But
I would I would never, youhaven't failed if you've done if
you put in a good effort. Andwhen I had to fail the student,
(19:01):
I would say you earned that F.
Margarita Gurri (19:04):
Yeah, I mean, I used to teach college as well.
And some kids would have suchfurious and creative minds would
have learning challenges. And Iwould create a different
curriculum for them. How canthey show me that they've
learned this? If they don'twrite and synthesize their
ideas? Well, if they're crippledby anxiety and can't do a
(19:27):
presentation from the class, howcan they show me what they've
learned? And the kids did such agood job of teaching me
different ways of showingsuccess in the face of
Yonason Goldson (19:41):
have different learning styles. The beautiful
thing about it, you have you notonly taught them the material,
you not only allowed them todemonstrate a knowledge of the
material but you you you taughtthem that it's possible to find
alternative ways of succeedingwhen there aren't when there are
(20:08):
obstacles that might appear tobe guarantees of failure. And so
help them conquer the fear. Yes,of whatever their particular
challenge is. And
Margarita Gurri (20:24):
they taught me.
Yeah, they taught me more than Itaught them. I'm sure this goes.
So my question then to all ofyou in the listening audience
is, what fear are you facingright now? And what are all the
things that are going to helpyou use the fear to invite
greatness, risk greatness, as myfather used to say? And what are
(20:45):
the obstacles in your way,including habits, attitudes
mindsets that you have, or maybenegative people that you're
inviting into your world? Ithink we, even if they're
family, we can certainly putthem in a loving area without
having them be our advisors. Soask yourself, Where is your fear
and what you're going to doabout? You have some final
(21:08):
words, Rabbi.
Yonason Goldson (21:12):
I don't know you wrap that up such a nice
bow, I think. Well,
Margarita Gurri (21:15):
thank you, sir.
All right. This is the rabbi onthe shrink and we've been
addressing fear. And lookingforward to hearing your comments
on what are you doing with yourfear? What are your solutions,
and maybe new thoughts that wedidn't present? Thank you and
join us for another episode ofThe rabbi chemistry.
Unknown (21:36):
Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrink
everyday ethics unscripted tobook Dr. Red Shoe, Dr.
Margarita, Guri, or Rabbi Jonasand Goldson as speakers or
advisors for your organization,contact them at the rabbi and
the shrink.com. This has been adoctor Red Shoe production
Welcome to another episode of The Rabbi and
the Shrink. This is Dr.
Margarita Gurri, your shrink,and my favorite Rabbi,
Yonason Goldson (00:11):
Yonason Goldson.
Margarita Gurri (00:12):
Well, the rabbi and I are going to address an
issue that is hard for people tothink about and face its fear.
It's been quoted as the culpritfor many of our bad choices. And
as the hero in motivating manyof our good choices, Rabbi,
let's start off with you. Tellus about fear and ethics.
Yonason Goldson (00:36):
Well, there's a there's an expression I heard,
I'm sure you've heard it. Don'tknow where it comes from. But
they see fear as an acronym. Ithink it's false expectations
appearing real. No, I haven'theard. I think I got it right.
But the, you know, another oneof our great philosophical
(00:58):
works, the path of the just byRabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto,
about 300 years ago, he says aphrase that is always stuck in
my mind. He says, there is fear,and there is fear. He means
there are things that are reallyscary. If you're, if you're
walking through the jungle, thenyou hear the lion's roar, that's
(01:22):
a good reason to be afraid. Ifyour wife your your car breaks
down, or a really bad part oftown, that's a reason to be
afraid. If a person gets adiagnosis of a terrible illness,
I mean, these are all legitimatereasons to be afraid. And that's
(01:44):
one part of the discussion ishow do we deal with legitimate
fear? But I think perhaps themore relevant part is how do we
recognize when we have createdirrational fears in our own
minds, because then we're, we'reharming ourselves, we're causing
(02:04):
ourselves all sorts ofpsychological often physical
problems, for reasons that areof our own making. And that's
where I think we, we, we reallyget ourselves in a lot of
trouble perceiving, reasons tobe afraid, that prevent us from
doing things that are in our ownbest interest.
Margarita Gurri (02:26):
That was that was very well put. I think, you
know, we we recently did anepisode on anger. And one of the
things that I know is anger isalmost never one of the first
emotions, we default to fear. Imean, we default to anger. So
let's say we're really afraid,well, it's easier to be angry
than afraid. It feels better, itfeels stronger. And it's a
(02:49):
reactive response. So let's takefear, I think often feet with
fear. That's not legit. We'reborrowing trouble. The What if
the What If, as my twin sisteris very funny, she say, it's not
time to be it's not time to beupset about it. It's not time to
worry about that. It's not timeto be afraid of that yet. i The
(03:11):
time will come and she'll say,it's not time yet. And I, I
think the whole idea of fear is,so many of us choose lives that
are less than amazing. Becausewe're afraid of something afraid
of failing, afraid ofsucceeding, afraid of looking
foolish. Well, as our childrenalways tell us, we look foolish
(03:32):
anyway, right. So may as well gofor it. You never know how
foolish and unwise and, andridiculous you are until you
have children of various ages.
And they're very quick to informyou. Very humbling. And you
learn a lot. Once they getolder, they realize how
brilliant you are. But then theyhave kids. So you know, the
cycle continues. We can never,we can never get too
(03:55):
overwhelmed, but the whole ideaof fear stopping us. And I think
that the difference between areal fear and irrational fear is
sometimes just the timing andhow we plan on handling.
Yonason Goldson (04:10):
Yeah, and my ethics, you know, and this is
related really completely toanswer your question previously,
that in my ethics keynote, Italked about the three enemies
without ethics and number two isfear. Because when we are
afraid, you
Margarita Gurri (04:23):
know than the three of them because I don't
know if everyone see they shouldsee your, your keynote, but what
Yonason Goldson (04:28):
are the three need to see a live I can't give
away the story. Oh, well, right
Margarita Gurri (04:31):
to have to do it. So number two is the enemy.
Okay.
Yonason Goldson (04:35):
But we'll, we'll go we'll get there. We'll
get to them eventually. Butnumber two, the sphere that you
mentioned the fear of lookingfoolish. That's big. I mean, how
often do you know students arenervous students, you have a
question you're afraid to askit. Because you thought well,
nobody else has asked it. So Imust be the only one that
(04:56):
question and I'm afraid oflooking dumb. And then if
someone then somebody else askedit and as the sigh throughout
the room because everybody hadthat question. Their fear of in
business, work employment isfear of exceeding one's
authority. There's fear ofgetting in trouble. There's fear
(05:22):
of looking incompetent, I askfor help. And these are all ways
we set ourselves up for failure.
Yes, we fail in doing orsupposed to be doing and doing
what we're supposed to be doingis, is ethical. If I take a job,
it's my job to do the job. Andthat means if I need help doing
the job, it's my job to ask forhelp. And when we're afraid of
(05:44):
how we'll look how we'll be seenof what might happen, then we
are we are not allow ourselvesto do what we're supposed to be
doing. And so the answer that Igive is that the the the secret
for combating fear is to fightfear with fear. Because we're
only looking at one side of theequation, all the what ifs. If I
(06:06):
do X, or don't do X, what aboutthe what ifs. The other way if I
default to inaction, if I takethe easy path, because the easy
path is very often not the rightpath. And if I can look at both
sides, at least what I can do isstart to restore a certain
(06:29):
amount of, of equilibrium to mydecision making. Alright, so now
I've got two things I'm afraidof. And if they keep they
balance each other, now I'm in aframe of mind where I can start
looking at them moreobjectively.
Margarita Gurri (06:43):
And the first thing from the psychological
point of view is to askyourself, what is the truth of
this fear? Because some fearsare very realistic. For
instance, some workplaces arenot psychologically safe, you
cannot question things, youcannot point out problems. And
you have to have the courage andyour own ability to ask,
Yonason Goldson (07:05):
who's fear? Is this? Is that the company's
Margarita Gurri (07:08):
fear for people to give input? And so I should
be afraid because I could getfired? If I give my opinion? If
so, is there a way to give myopinion in a way that doesn't
sound like an opinion? Butsounds like their idea? I mean,
they're, I think we have to askourselves, is this mirror them?
If it's them, you have a wholebunch of different
brainstorming. But if it's you,then it's easier to address.
(07:31):
Luckily for me, I have a bigbrother. And so I don't have to
worry about being afraid oflooking foolish or feeling
foolish. He he did plenty ofthat. So I survived that. Thank
you, Joe. I love my big brother.
But, you know, knowing what ismy capability to look foolish,
without having to feel tooashamed? Or too scared? That is
(07:53):
the first thing, how much of itis me? Why are we so afraid?
What are we afraid of?
Yonason Goldson (08:07):
I think we're going to find a theme here
because it came up in ourdiscussion of anger that it
cannot be traced back to ego.
Yes, I
Margarita Gurri (08:13):
think so
Yonason Goldson (08:14):
I think that we're going to find a lot of the
negative character traits havetheir roots in ego.
Margarita Gurri (08:22):
And you have to think about what really is ego.
And you know, in Freud system,ego was a balancing of the what
we want the ID, what feels good,what you want in the moment. And
then the super ego, the shouldsof it all. So ego you can think
about is the practical problemsolver, the mediator, but also I
(08:43):
think the innovator lives in theego. So you have to have the
courage of going beyond whatfeels good. And you have to go
beyond the courage of peoplecensoring you, as they say, this
is not the way it should be. Toinnovate or to
Yonason Goldson (09:01):
pardon? No, I heard somebody say once, like, I
can't cite the stories, but yougot to think of as an acronym
for elbow God out. Yeah. Andthat, again, without getting
into theology of it, the ideathat I am accountable to a
higher authority or a higherstandard or higher set of
values, and that in the in themoment right now, when there is
(09:25):
this person, or this situationand are afraid how people are
going to see me. Right? Thatpushes out that sense of higher
values, higher authority, higherstandards. And that's you know,
it's it's it's the amygdala istaking over. And I'm so
(09:46):
concerned with what people willthink what people will say, and
these maybe people are nevergoing to see it again. Then
maybe people don't even careabout
Margarita Gurri (09:57):
Yeah, I mean, recently, I'm training as you
know, from pilgrimage in ElCamino de Santiago in Spain. And
recently, I bought a big oldbackpack that's going to carry
2025 pounds. So I can do 512miles if I last that long. And
so I'm training. So even me thisgrown up, you know, old lady
(10:19):
with the silver hair power. I'mputting on this backpack going
to the gym thinking I'm gonnalook like such a dork. Well,
luckily, I am a dork. So Ialready have lots of practice.
But even I who've embraced myfull dorkiness as a benefit and
a liability, both aspects of it.
I had to take some deep breathsof saying, I'm embracing my
inner dork, I'm going to looklike a total jerk. And you know
(10:42):
what happened to people came upto me and said, What are you
training for when we got to talkin and some of them even kept me
company, walking in the peoplewho thought it was me for doing
a Dorcy Dorcy thing kept it tothemselves. So some good things
happen. So worrying about fearstopping you is normal. But
letting it stop you not so good.
(11:07):
So I asked everyone out there,what is your fear right now?
What? What fears are stoppingyou from being the best version
of yourself? Being the best lovepartner, parent and neighbor,
best friend, teacher, whatever.
What's stopping you? And why?
And have the courage to look atfear in the face? And look at
(11:31):
all of the possible brainstorm,what are all the things you can
do with the sphere, good or bad.
And then choose some that mightbe not only doable, but that
might be of service to you andothers. That's what I would ask
you to do pick a fear andbrainstorming.
Yonason Goldson (11:48):
I think two of the most common fears, we look
across the board, there's thefear of No. If I asked for
something, I won't get it.
There's also the fear of Yes. IfI get it, maybe I won't be up to
the task. And so we live in akind of limbo where we don't
(12:10):
take chances. And we don't giveourselves opportunities. And we
avoid the pain of anticipating,I should say we avoid the
anticipated pain. But we don'tallow ourselves to to get the
rewards.
Margarita Gurri (12:35):
We don't and I think sometimes the rewards are
long and coming because we trysomething and doesn't work. So
effort. One way we can sabotageour effort in the face of any
fear is to try just one thing,and then let it die. So you have
to get up and try it again andget up and try again. But I also
think we can create a course ofadvisors that can enjoy our
(12:56):
failures, and help us plan oursuccesses. And you know, my
father would often say at thetable, what's the biggest
mistake that you either didtoday or saw? And what did what
happened with it. And he wastrying to encourage us to take
risks. You know, it's kind ofinteresting. So our attitude
(13:19):
about failure. I vote that youget excited about it and learn
from it. And if you don't knowwhat to do with it, call
somebody who's wise andpositive. So another way you can
sabotage yourself is callsomebody who is putting us down
or is very negative. Pick youradvisors
Yonason Goldson (13:39):
carefully. I heard something not so long ago
that that's kind of interesting.
I think it applies here. If wethink of fear as perhaps a form
of anxiety, yes. And there is aphysiological reaction to
anxiety. There is? Wellapparently it's the same
physiological reaction as thatto excitement. It can be yes. So
(14:00):
in our own minds, what we can dois talking about reframing is
that if I feel anxious, I feelafraid. I don't know what's
coming. If I can convince myselfI tell myself that, well, this
is an opportunity, anopportunity for growth. It's an
opportunity to learn, it's anopportunity to experience the
(14:23):
unexpected, and try to frame itas something that's worth that's
worthy of excitement. So now I'mtaking the same physiological
response and channeling it in apositive direction, where it can
become empowering, instead ofchanneling in a negative
direction or it's going tobecome debilitating.
Margarita Gurri (14:46):
My friend Dave Bricker would say turn nervous
into service. And I always likedthat that it's true. And my
coach used to say, if you're notnervous, you're not ready. that
you have to have the hype energybecause it's your adrenaline
that you're getting ready tocompete. And some people avoid
(15:07):
competition, like they avoid theplague. And I think being afraid
of coming in second, third orlast is ego. It matters more
what we learn with the race orthe preparation of it. We don't
have to win all the time. Idon't know about you, Rabbi, but
(15:29):
I I've got a lot of greatexperiences of failing and
failing greatly.
Yonason Goldson (15:35):
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, I frequentlyquote, you've heard me quote,
Winston Churchill, that successis going from failure to failure
with no loss of enthusiasm. Andthen the truth is that it's not
a failure, unless we fail tolearn from. Yeah.
Margarita Gurri (15:55):
And if we stop ourselves from continuing the
journey, or if we blame otherpeople, I think those are the
only real failures.
Yonason Goldson (16:03):
Yeah. And in fact, at the recent National
Speakers Association,Association conference, we both
attended one of the speakersthere, I could pronounce his
name, right. Michael C. anelli,I believe, one of the directors
of NASA. And and he talked aboutthe the culture that they had of
failure is not an option. Exceptit doesn't work. Because
(16:27):
sometimes you fail. Yeah. And sohe has reframed it as failure to
learn from failure is not anoption. That is so much better
failure. So it's so powerful andso wise.
Margarita Gurri (16:41):
So many people avoid that paradigm by not
letting themselves fail. I mean,we all know people who, since
high school have stoppedlearning new things. Yeah,
they've decided they're done.
And if they want to choose alife like that, I think that's
to me, obviously, their choice,but I always wish them well and
look forward to them having thespark of courage or curiosity
(17:03):
that would help them startlearning again,
Yonason Goldson (17:09):
there's a wonderful quote by Theodore
Roosevelt, and I don't have ithandy, but he talks about the
difference between a critic andthe Man in the Arena. Yes, it's
covered with dust and sweat, andexperiences, glorious victories,
shattered by defeat, which makeshis life so much more rich than
(17:31):
the one who lives in that greatTwilight, of knowing neither
victory nor defeat.
Margarita Gurri (17:37):
And we know that people have had some
experiences of challenges intheir life. Not only are better
problem solvers, and criticalthinkers, but they have more
compassion for others. Andtherefore, they're more likely
to create a collection offriends and loved ones that add
great value to their lives. Sofail, and you can actually
invite more love in your life.
And I think that's a really goodmotivator to our allow ourselves
(18:01):
the the pain of failure over andover again.
Yonason Goldson (18:08):
And surround yourself with people who will
support you through yourfailures. Yes, and help you
learn the lessons that theyteach.
Margarita Gurri (18:18):
Yeah, and too many people try and support
someone by blaming other people.
Oh, that wasn't you. That wasthe boss, none. How did you
contribute to the failure? Isn'tin every environment, there's a
way to win some environments. Sothe only way to win is to be
unethical. And the only solutionis to either try to change the
system, or try to change theenvironment that you're in.
Yonason Goldson (18:38):
Yeah. And when I was teaching, I would never
fail a student who was tryingmean, either. Um, I wouldn't
give them a great grade. Iwouldn't give them a phase. But
I would I would never, youhaven't failed if you've done if
you put in a good effort. Andwhen I had to fail the student,
(19:01):
I would say you earned that F.
Margarita Gurri (19:04):
Yeah, I mean, I used to teach college as well.
And some kids would have suchfurious and creative minds would
have learning challenges. And Iwould create a different
curriculum for them. How canthey show me that they've
learned this? If they don'twrite and synthesize their
ideas? Well, if they're crippledby anxiety and can't do a
(19:27):
presentation from the class, howcan they show me what they've
learned? And the kids did such agood job of teaching me
different ways of showingsuccess in the face of
Yonason Goldson (19:41):
have different learning styles. The beautiful
thing about it, you have you notonly taught them the material,
you not only allowed them todemonstrate a knowledge of the
material but you you you taughtthem that it's possible to find
alternative ways of succeedingwhen there aren't when there are
(20:08):
obstacles that might appear tobe guarantees of failure. And so
help them conquer the fear. Yes,of whatever their particular
challenge is. And
Margarita Gurri (20:24):
they taught me.
Yeah, they taught me more than Itaught them. I'm sure this goes.
So my question then to all ofyou in the listening audience
is, what fear are you facingright now? And what are all the
things that are going to helpyou use the fear to invite
greatness, risk greatness, as myfather used to say? And what are
(20:45):
the obstacles in your way,including habits, attitudes
mindsets that you have, or maybenegative people that you're
inviting into your world? Ithink we, even if they're
family, we can certainly putthem in a loving area without
having them be our advisors. Soask yourself, Where is your fear
and what you're going to doabout? You have some final
(21:08):
words, Rabbi.
Yonason Goldson (21:12):
I don't know you wrap that up such a nice
bow, I think. Well,
Margarita Gurri (21:15):
thank you, sir.
All right. This is the rabbi onthe shrink and we've been
addressing fear. And lookingforward to hearing your comments
on what are you doing with yourfear? What are your solutions,
and maybe new thoughts that wedidn't present? Thank you and
join us for another episode ofThe rabbi chemistry.
Unknown (21:36):
Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrink
everyday ethics unscripted tobook Dr. Red Shoe, Dr.
Margarita, Guri, or Rabbi Jonasand Goldson as speakers or
advisors for your organization,contact them at the rabbi and
the shrink.com. This has been adoctor Red Shoe production
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