Rally Point 63

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Rally pointers full. Hey, folks, it's your girl, Amanda Macchiato
mccanue doing the show by myself today. So I'm here
with Zane the Brain here in the studio, so I'm
not fully alone. Say hello, Zane. Hello. So let's get
started and jump right into the show. And for this

(00:20):
segment we have with us in the studio today, Kathy Cooper.
Kathy is an Air Force veteran. She was a medic,
So welcome to the show, Kathy.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Thank you, Amanda.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Well, so let's talk about your time in the military.
Thanks for coming on and telling us your story. So
tell us about your time in the Air Force, Like
what was your AFSC, What did you do? Where were
you stationed?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, like all people, I went to Lachlan in San Antonio,
and then I went to Ait Shepherd Air Force Base
in which tal Falls, Texas, and then back to Lachlan
because I married my high school sweet Art and he
was stationed down there, so I went there and then

(01:04):
I worked at Wilford Hall Medical Center and my first
job there was a little difficult. I liked doing the
newborn nursery, but then I was put in a nicu
and that was like a little traumatic for me there
after nine months and they worked me a lot of hours,
a lot of hours, and you know, I was I

(01:24):
was nineteen by that time, and I was just seeing
babies die, little babies. It was a traumatic. But from
there we went to England and I was working on
a base leftover from World War Two. It was an
RAF base from the Royal Air Force and so we
were with the Brits there and we just I worked

(01:49):
a little bit of everything, er pediatric clinic, a flight
surgeon's office, and I got right into driving the old
ambulance because I could drive a stick shift, so they licensed.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Wow, they had stick shift ambulances. That's awesome. I'm not
going to lie and I'm not trying to make you
feel old, but I'm just saying I didn't know that
they had stick shift ambulances. We did have gvs that
were that were stick shifts. I didn't know the ambulances
were once manual transmissions. Wow.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, Well I drove the old we called them cracker
boxes and the big square ones. And I had to
drive on the flight line, so I had to get
my flight line license and everything, and uh, it was
you know, a little challenging getting across the runways and stuff.
I can see now you know, I'm going to understand
how crash has happened and stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, I did do. I had to do flight line
driving training and it was definitely you had to be
paying attention at all times. So wow, very cool. So
you at least you got the experience of being overseas
and state side.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
I came back from there and went to Scott Air
Force Base, Illinois, and I worked in a newborn nursery
again and pediatric floor. So you know, I ca back
and by then I was having a baby, and so
I wanted to get out in the military because I
worked a lot of hours in medic and also, like
in England, if they had a female they needed to
take to Lakenheath, which was the big hospital. I had

(03:13):
to write ambulance with her. And my one funny story
is we got to Cambridge one time. We got halfway
there and the lady started having her baby and we
had to pull over at the hospital. And I didn't
know they had maternity hospitals at that time, so when
we went in, the doctor said, we'll call the midwife.

(03:34):
And now there's a show called that call the midwife
and I said, hear, you're the doctor here, I have
a kit right here, and the baby just came out
and we delivered it right there on the stretcher. Wow,
that's That's one of my funny stories. Was like he
was a doctor, and I thought all doctors knew how

(03:56):
to deliver babies.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Maybe not in England, huh.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
You know, they had the maternity hospitals that were separate
from me. Interesting and most of those were midwives.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, got it. Well in a way. That's kind of
nice though, that they let the midwives be the midwife,
you know, that the doctor, because my experience with kind
of how the medical world operates in America is like
the doctor is kind of supposedly at the top of
the pyramid, even though a lot of us know no
disrespect to doctors, but a lot of us know the

(04:25):
nurses do most of the heavy lifting, or the midwives
in the case of labor and delivery. So that's cool
that in England they let, you know, everybody had their lane,
and so that doctor knew to stay in his lane
and get the midwife so that she could come and
do what needed done. Interesting. Well, cool, So it sounds
like you had some adventures. How long were you in
the Air Force About four and a half years, wow,

(04:48):
And so in four and a half years you moved.
You went to three different bases, which I guess was
common then. Well, yeah, for total, which was common I
guess at that point because at some point, from what
I understand, people were using about every two years or
so that's what we did. Yeah, So by the time
I came in, I came in two thousand and one,
and by then, it was like people could hang out

(05:09):
at places. My husband was at his first base for
fourteen and a half years, which is like unheard of, right.
So I was at our first base for six years
and then went to my second base. I was there
for almost eight years. So it just became very different
how the military moved people around. I definitely think there's
a benefit to moving around a little more often, probably

(05:31):
every three to four years, which I think that's what
officers do now because we were both enlisted, so but
officers now, I think they move about every three to
four years, and listed can, but I think they have to.
Even since I retired, the assignment process has completely changed,
so they have a little more you know, of a
claim to stake with their assignments, but I think it's

(05:53):
still a little bit more of you will move as
much as you are proactive to seek out assignments. So
that's interesting. But so after the Air Force, so you
did your four and a half years, you got out
because you were having a baby, correct, And so then
what happened after that? Did you take time off to
just be a mom and enjoy life.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
I signed up for unemployment and took a few months off,
and my husband got a job right away at the
Naval avionics station there in Indianapolis, where we returned to Indianapolis, Indiana,
and I started working in a they called it the
dispensary back then. So I started working in there and

(06:35):
had gotten my Indiana EMT license and was able to
ride the ambulance when someone got injured. It was a
big engineering plant that made the guidance systems for Tomahawk
cruise missiles and a lot of things for Noah and such.
But occasionally somebody to get hurt or have a heart
attack or whatever, and so I'd transport him over to

(06:57):
the hospital from there. I did that for a year
and a half while I started taking some classes for
nursing school there at Indiana University, and I just went
to school, and then when I got out, I worked
a couple of places and decided I wanted to be
back with the veterans, so I went to VA Hospital

(07:19):
in Indianapolis and I worked there in a surgical ICU
and had a lot of scary times there with a
lot of the veterans that had not been back too
long for Vietnam, or they'd been POW's and things like that.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
So you got to see PTSD up close and personal
before it was known as such.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Very We had one guy that was scared because the
heart pumps back then entered or the cart pumps sounded
like the beating of the drums from Vietnam. So it
really scared a lot of guys. And they'd come out
of surgery and they had morphine on board and everything,
and so he thought there was a bomb next to him,

(08:03):
and he jumped up and pulled the fire alarm.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Box out of the wall.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Oh goodness, running out after he pulled his all of
his lines out and he was running down the hall
with nothing but a fire alarm and oh my, we
called it a coat. And the doctors caught him running
down the hall brought him back in, but there was
always something like traumatic to them, and that we tried

(08:30):
to help him adjust the IC as much as possible.
If they were having open heart surgery, we gave him
a tour beforehand. Nice and so they would know where
they're going to wake up, got it, and help them
know what to expect. I mean, yes, yeah, their generation
definitely deserves a lot of love, care and appreciation because

(08:50):
they didn't get it when they first came home. So
that's nice that you were, you know, trying to help
them be more comfortable and kind of meet them where
they were. Well, I were with a lot of Vietnam
veterans in England. The nurse that was the major or
my major, you know, so my major she had been
in Cameron Bay when they got overtaken by the VC

(09:13):
and she was in the white Air Force nursing dress
and her you know, white cap and white hoes and shoes,
and the Army girls got to wear fatigues. Oh wow,
we were far behind, it seemed like in the Air
Force at that time. I'm only so glad to see
that girls are are more properly dressed than we were

(09:35):
back then. Because you know, we were cold. We didn't
get a parko, we didn't get a heavy coats. We
just got a jacket with no lining and no boots
or anything. Wow, march to the snow with your low quarters.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Oh my goodness. When I first came in, whites were
like people loved them. But I was also stationed in Tucson, Arizona.
I was at Davis Monthan, so it's hot and sunny
three hundred and fifty five days out of the year.
So they loved their because they were lighter weight. They
were just easier to deal with in the heat. And
then in my career field, even though I fell under medical,
we were occupational safety and health, bio environmental. So because

(10:11):
we were going out to the shops, we were you know,
out on the flight line doing stuff like that, we
didn't get to wear whites at all. And I was jealous.
I'll admit I was like, man, but I never thought
about how that could play out on the other end
of things, where you know you're ill equipped for the
location for what you're encountering. I did not know that

(10:32):
they had nurses going through you know, the Vietnam War
wearing whites. I would have never thought that.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Wow, And we lost some Air Force nurses over there
flying the babies out. But they grabbed as many worffing
babies as they could and they put them in boxes
in the seats on the planes. And they had two
of them that went out and one of them didn't
make it. I believe they were shot down.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Oh my.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
But you know, we worked with these people that had
been exposed to all that. I went in in seventy
two to seventy seven, so I experienced the POW's coming
back to San Antonio and it was a sad.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Sight to see those guys come back. And so you
yourself are a Vietnam veteran, even if you didn't go
over in country, if you served during the Vietnam Era. Yes,
I consider anybody who served during the Vietnam Era to
be a Vietnam vet I mean, obviously there's a difference
between being a combat veteran and not. But so you did,

(11:30):
you served right in the midst of that. So thank
you first of all for serving, for your sacrifice, for
you know, everything that you encountered and endured that changed
who the kathy was that joined the Air Force versus
the kathy who left the Air Force and honestly, thank
you for paving the way for women like me, for

(11:52):
every woman that came after you. It's a big deal.
I know it is.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
I think they should do movies. And some of the
nurses especially werews during World War Two. They tried to
downplay it. They didn't get any vacare, they didn't get
any money afterwards, they were just told goodbye, and General
MacArthur tried to get a lot of their medals for
them and stuff. Yeah, and they couldn't have babies or
anything because they were so starved over there as POWs

(12:22):
in the Philippines that they actually lost having their monthly
cycles and were able to have children when they got back.
And they have all sorts of malaria and everything.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
And just a lot of trauma in general. I mean,
I'm sure they were not treated well, especially even as women.
They probably weren't treated very well at all. None of them,
anybody that was taking pow during Vietnam, to my understanding,
was not treated well period. So yeah, that I agree.

(12:54):
More visibility needs to be put on the contributions of
women to the military, especially during times when it wasn't
so prominently known. I mean, even nowadays, women serving in
the military is not an uncommon thing. However, people will
very commonly, especially if a woman is married, they'll look
to the husband and be like, thank you for your service.
And in some cases the husband never served, let alone,

(13:17):
you know, and if it was a dual mill situation,
like with you and your husband and with me and
my husband. I don't know about you, but my husband
is always quick to point out to people like, hey,
you know, my wife, think her too, because she's served
as well. I still think in the American conscience, it's
just it's still kind of a thing that we're having

(13:38):
to really work to help people understand, like we served
as well, and so especially during Vietnam during World War Two,
during times like that, I don't think people think about
the fact that there were women on the ground in
those conflicts, in those wars, and people aren't fully aware
of those contributions. There are more documentaries and movies coming

(13:59):
out now. I think there's one called The Six Triple
Eight that just came out recently that talks about some
of the women's contributions during then, and especially that they
were women of color. No less, that's even more of
a rarity. So Yeah, I definitely agree that we need
to do more to put more of a highlight on

(14:20):
the service of women over our nation's history. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
I think I learned at an early age because my
stepfather's sister and two of these brothers were in World
War Two and that was unusual back then, and so
I always looked at her picture of her in uniform,
and you know, I know she suffered because she drank
a lot. After the war end, she had a family

(14:44):
and everything, but she had to register, you know, the dead,
and that's always a difficult job. Absolutely the soldiers ready
to go back home, yes, and killed and so she
became a nurse when she got back. But and I'm
sure she suffered mentally from everything she saw with her

(15:04):
And I've got a neat picture of her joining my stepdad,
her brother and her other brother too, So it's kind
of neat that they were all in Philippines together at
the same time. That's unusual.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Wow, Yeah, that is, and that's I bet that photo
is absolutely incredible. I hope that someday you'll be able
to share that more widely, whether with you know, the
Military Heritage Museum here or telling stories through the veterans
History Project, you can tell that story through them and
share that picture because that can actually be put in

(15:35):
the Library of Congress and then that lives forever. So
great idea. Yes, absolutely so. Part of what we do
here on the Rally Point Show is we bring people
on to tell their stories because we think America needs
to hear them. We know they do, but also to
kind of help prepare you or prime you potentially for
doing the Veteran's History Project and actually going through the

(15:56):
Library of Congress process to share your story, share your photos,
share letters, memorabilia, whatever you're comfortable sharing as a testimony
about your service or if it's posthumous service of those
in your family who came before you. So, and that's
definitely that would be a photo I would want to

(16:18):
see sometime because I know, you know, we run in
circles that go beyond this studio, so we see each
other out in town from time to time. That would
just be an incredible photo. So when you left the
Air Force and you got out, you said you went
to Indiana and you were doing occupational physicals for people
and such on the base there. How was it like,

(16:42):
did you find it difficult to transition from being in
the Air Force, because I mean you kind of went
through a process. You left the Air Force, you took
a season of motherhood and enjoyed that for a little while,
and then you went back to work. How would you
describe your overall transition process I'm leaving the military to
your next career out of Indianapolis.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Well, my last station was a scott Air Force base
and we got to live in house base housing there,
and so you're just surrounded by your military family and
when you get out. Fortunately, my brother and father lived
in Indianapolis, so I had family there. But you missed that,

(17:27):
and you, you know, you just take some things for
granted that everybody knows what happened with Vietnam soldiers, and
a lot of people don't. They look the other way.
And I think that's true with a lot of traumatic
things in life, people like military and firefighters and stuff.
We run towards it instead of away from it, and

(17:48):
sometimes we need to step away from it. And so
that's one thing that's traumatizing. I know when I worked later,
I went to work at Cincinnati, VA, and I worked
with the Women's house there, and I could see the
difference in the younger girls. Some of them, like you said,

(18:08):
they didn't understand that we paved the way for a
lot of the things that they had. They take for granted,
and that would always kind of bother me. But I
could always pick out the ones that had been nurses
in Vietnam. They had this sad look about them and
they didn't always join in. We had events for the ladies,

(18:30):
you know, Breast cancer Awareness months and we do a
party for him then and Christmas parties, and we had
a time where we did like a modeling show, and
we had these shops that would come in and bring
clothes and we would model them for the for the
girls to have clothes to buy cheaply for jobs, got

(18:56):
it and help them get transitioned back in.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
Why do you suspect that those Vietnam era nurses, why
do you think that they kind of stayed out on
the fringe and didn't really join in. Do you have
any thoughts or feelings about that?

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Well, you know, that was strange. I didn't think too
much about it at the time. But when I first
went to work at VA in Indianapolis, it was in
eighty three, and so the Vietnam War hadn't been over
that long, you know, it hadn't been ten years, and
there were no females. There were no females in.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
The hospital, like no female patients or.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
No female patients.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Oh Wowry.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
And you know at Cincinnati years later in twenty fifteen,
when I started working there was there were a lot
of female patients and we had a women's clinic and
mostly women doctors saw them, and I think they just
didn't come because they didn't feel respected or accepted, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
They felt like their service was kind of overlooked maybe
or forgotten.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, you know, they didn't get any combat pat the
Vietnam nurses didn't until nineteen ninety four. One of the
combat nurses she you know, had a lot of traumatic
experience over there, and then she stayed in the reserves
and got injured very badly in a plane that the
door came off and she got the thickness decompression sickness

(20:25):
from it and just lost everything, her memory and everything.
And because they took so long to get her to
a decompression chamber due to the fact that she was
a reservist instead of active duty, so they took I
think up to forty eight hours somewhere to get her

(20:45):
into the decompression. So she was working on her master's
degree and she couldn't do anything. Wow, she couldn't, you know,
think clearly, and so it put her back. And when
she got the chance to go to Washington to make
a difference, she did and got a back pay for
a lot of the women that never got combat. But

(21:06):
then by ninety four some of them were dead.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
I was going to say, several of them have probably
already passed.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
And even when I was in, we didn't get equal
pay because we got like basically equal pay for our rank.
But because I was married to another airman, I could
not get any housing allowance, so he got single housing
allowance and we had to live off that.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
They played around with that while I was still on
active duty. They hustled with the idea on Capitol Hill
about possibly if your dual military, only one of you
collects the housing allowance. And there was huge pushback on
that because at that point, you know, like you said,
sometimes folks don't really remember who paved the way. But

(21:50):
at that point, us women were like, we serve in
our own right, why should we forego housing allowance? So
to know that that actually happened and the weird thing
is that wasn't even part of the conversation. Nobody ever said,
you know, when all of that was being proposed, which
this was probably about somewhere between twenty twelve and twenty fifteen,
nobody brought up that there used to be a time

(22:12):
when that's how it was. Nobody ever said that, And
if they had, I think that would have definitely helped
open a lot of people's eyes, like holy cow, like
some of our sisters were not getting taken care of
at all.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
It I.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Definitely feel strongly about that. We serve in our own right.
We raised our right hand. It was our name that
we signed, not our husband's right to serve. I mean,
I wasn't even married when I came in the Air Force,
were you?

Speaker 2 (22:38):
No, we weren't married here.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
We waited too, so we joined on our own terms.
It's not like we were already married or what have you.
And even if you were, it doesn't matter. You're an adult.
You're capable of, you know, making decisions for yourself, serving
in your own right. So it's it's terrible to know
that that's how it was being done, But at the
same time, it gives me a little bit of hope

(23:02):
to see that there have been some there's been some
progress in that regard. Although they tried to do it again,
they were unsuccessful clearly with trying to take away anybody's
housing allowance or anything like that. So wow, just I'm
so glad you came on the show because you've given
such a perspective to myself and I'm sure a lot

(23:24):
of our listeners on what it was like to serve then,
and especially as a woman. So if you're listening, I
hope that you know, for those that are listening to
this show, that they will take that into account and
be sure to you know, be mindful and even that
much more thankful of veterans. And definitely, you know when

(23:45):
you're at the VA, when you're at you know, places
where veterans kind of congregate, whether it's a VFW post,
American Legion post, whatever the case might be. When you
encounter another woman, do yourself a favor and ask the question, hey,
did you serve to are you a veteran too? Because
if anything, give her the opportunity to say maybe I
didn't or what have you. In my case, when I

(24:07):
meet women who are like, oh I didn't serve, but
my husband did. I'm willing to say that on some
levels you served too for those ladies, because it couldn't
have been easy to keep things going at home, to
raise children, to you know, and then be wondering where
is your spouse, are they safe? You know, having to

(24:27):
shoulder that stress while trying to you know, maintain a good, healthy,
happy family. So, I mean, there's varying levels of service
in my opinion, but we're just so glad to have
you on the show, and we definitely want to have
you on at a later point because from what I understand,
you're now kind of in a career that is pretty

(24:53):
interesting to talk about with veterans, and so we'll talk
more about that the next time you're on the show. Okay,
delve Moore into what you're doing now. So thank you again,
Kathy for being on the show today, thank you for
sharing your story, thank you for having me and talking
about your service, because we definitely need to normalize more
of this and getting more of our sisters to be

(25:15):
on this show to talk about their service as well.
So thank you so much. You're welcome and with us
now via phone for this segment, we have doctor Aisha Harris.
She is an Air Force veteran and the CEO and
founder of Caring Souls for Veterans. Welcome to the show,
Doctor Harris.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Hey, Amanda, thank you so much for having me today.
I'm super excited about this opportunity to connect with you today.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Absolutely no, we are thrilled to have you. So to
give our listeners a little bit of background, So I
met Esha through Facebook. Actually, so we were both members
of a Facebook forum and I just kind of put
the word out there that I was looking for veterans
who wanted to tell their story on our show. And
so she replied, and we had a phone conversation, kind

(26:02):
of connected, talked through some things, and here we are.
So please tell America about your military service, what years
you were in, where you were stationed, what your job was,
just all of that good stuff.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Perfect. Now, that's a loaded question. Trying to figure out
how I can summarize twenty six years of amazing service.
Where do we start? So I started my career in
nineteen ninety two at Langley Air Force Base. I joined
the military out of Brooklyn, New York. Shout out to Brownsow, Brooklyn.
I always have to do that because it was just

(26:39):
sevendipitous that I would end up in the Air Force.
Before I go into my military career, Amanda, I just
want to share with you how I got there. So
I was trying to figure out how I could fulfill
my childhood dream of becoming a nurse. I started at
a university, and the university was a lot more expensive

(27:01):
than my parents could afford. So I ended up at
a community college in Brooklyn, and I have an associates
degree in business administration. And about six months before I graduated,
I had an epixity and I said, this, this is degree.
This is not going to allow me to become a nurse.
How this has happened? And lo and behold I joined

(27:22):
the Air Force, and my recruiters shared with me that
as long as I picked a AFSC that allowed me
to go to school in the morning, scuse me work
in the morning and then go to school in the afternoon,
then I will be able to fulfill my team of
becoming a nurse. So in nineteen ninety two, in August,
I go off to boot camp, and boy was I afraid.

(27:43):
So we start out in Texas and after that I
ended up doing my tech school in Mississippi, and because
I wanted to hurry up and get to school and
get to my first assignment. I remember we had six
weeks to complete tech school and I ended up finishing

(28:04):
in twenty one days.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
I yes, I was determined to get this done. And
I was a seven o two. They had just turned
over from nine to two, so I was a seven
oh two and I was information management.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Perfect. I was just going to say, I'm like, for
the people listening that don't understand our affc yes, perfect.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yes, that was information management, and that was in other
times you might call it program management because that's a
lot of what I did as a as an airman.
And I started out in the orderly room, Amanda.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
I don't know if you remember, Oh, yes, we had
the orderly room when I first came in. It. It
slowly transitioned to the Commander Support Staff or CSS, but yes,
when I first came in, it was the orderly room.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
Yeah. So I started out in the orderly room. And
I remember the first day I met my supervisor. I
was super excited. I had the best sponsor ever. I
met my supervisor and I expressed my interest and she said, okay,
go forth and conquer, and she was amazing. So from
while I was at Langley, I worked in an orderly
room at the nineteen twelve Computer Systems Group, and then

(29:10):
after that I needed to better understand the Air Force.
I was surprised at how kind everyone was, and I said,
I think this is supposed to be a little bit
different than what we experienced in basic training.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Exactly, we're all on like, we're all kind of on
high alert. When we leave basic training. We're like afraid
of NCOs and definitely senior NCOs because we're just waiting
to get yelled at for something. I think at that point,
like that shock in Owez still there.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yes, absolutely So then the genius and me ends up
in Korea.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Nice.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
I talked to a few of my peers about it
and I'm like, how is this working? I really thought
I was supposed to experience something different. So I ended
up in Korea. I was in Korea for a year.
After Korea, I ended up with a joint assignment at Naval.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Air Station Nice.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
At Norfolk Naval Air Station, I supported logistics the J
four area, and then after that I was hand picked
to go to the Surgeon General's Office at Langley. So
I started my enlisted career and ended my enlisted career
at Langley Air Force Base. How ironic is that? And

(30:24):
working for the Surgeon General gave me full exposure to healthcare.
So that was so timely. And after working for the
Surgeon General, I get my ROTC scholarship and I go
to the University of Memphis. After University of Memphis two
and a half years, three years there, I ended up

(30:45):
at my first nursing assignment, which was at right Patterson
Air Force Base, and I was at right Past for
about five years. Started in the medicurch space, as every
nurse does. I went from med surge to the e
are and still again searching for yet another challenge. So
I ended up going into flight school. From flight school,

(31:08):
I go back to Right pat and then they send
me to Er. I go to Keysforit Air Force Base.
Not Sally, No, let me stop. It was Pope Air
Force Base. I went up pot Air Force Base and
that's where my son was born. Dylan was born at
Fort Bragg. From Pope, we ended up in Mississippi at

(31:33):
Keysloit Air Force Base. And at Keysler I went there
to be the chief of the nurse transition programs. From Keysler,
I deployed actually deployed it right pat too, so there
were two deployments there. But out of Keyfler is where
I deployed to Afghanistan and I was able to perform
my flight nursing duties there. And then from Chessler I

(31:56):
went to Travis Air Force Base and at Travis I
served a slight commander and Jeffrety chief nurse there and
then after that I retired. So it was a twenty
year career, twenty six year career filled with fun and enjoyment. Yes,
And I say the one thing, Amanda, the entire time

(32:19):
that I was in the Air Force, I was so
focused on ensuring that my chlodate dreams came to fruition.
And once I became a nurse my third education it grew.
And I tell people it took me twenty years to
get a PhD. So I started with my CCAF in
nineteen ninety three and then in twenty thirteen I finished

(32:42):
with my terminal degree. Wow, So that was my quest
the entire time I was in the military, and there
was a lot that happened along the way. I tell you,
one of the most poignant moments. While I was on
active duty, was initially meeting my first supervisor. I mean,
coming from Brooklyn, going to boot camp and not understanding

(33:03):
the military culture. That Sage Handy was absolutely amazing and
she helped me understand so many things. So when I
met Desargi Handy, I met her and I shared with
her my aspirations because the recruiter said that I can
go to school in the evening. And she was very

(33:24):
clear about the military expectations and she said to me,
you have to complete your CDCs. I'm sure you remember those.
Oh yeah, yeah, you complete your military education requirements. That's
a must do. But I will allow you an opportunity
to complete your CDC's while going to school. And the

(33:47):
moment you fail a CDC and of course exam, that
is when you will stop going to school. And I
was so thankful that she gave me the opportunity to
do that because that it essentially became the foundation for
how I navigated the military, and that you give people opportunities,

(34:11):
support their dreams and just believe in them. And I
remember about ten years later when I was in command
and one of my troops came to me and said
I'm looking forward to going back to school. And they
told him that he couldn't go back to school until
he finished the CDC. And I said, well, can you

(34:32):
show me that in the rags because it was AFI's
at that time, but show me that in the rag
and it wasn't a must.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Nose and that's a supervisor's discretion.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yes, And I said, please give this young man an opportunity,
let them go to school. Why they do their CDCs
Because the one thing I've learned is when you're driven,
you will do whatever it takes to make your success
come to wishing. And so I was thankful for that
moment that this stranger essentially she believed in me, and

(35:07):
because of her belief in me, it allowed me to
one pay it forward, but also to fulfill my dream
and exceed way beyond what I ever even envisioned just
coming in to the military as Irmin Harris. So I
am thankful for that moment, and I just encourage people
to really support others and just because it's written, there's

(35:30):
always a way to help despite what is documented. And
I love that you highlighted with the supervisor's discretion, but
there's so many that really you're like, no, And the
long conversations that we had Amanda about letting misng man
go to school, it wasn't pleasant at all.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
But it was the right thing to do, and that
young man will always remember that somebody went to bat
for him, somebody believed in him, and somebody was willing
to put their faith in him and kind of put
their neck out for him to do well. And I
think when when leaders do that, it not only enriches
you know, it enriches that person because they see like

(36:11):
this person believed in me, but it also really, like
you said, when they're driven, it truly motivates them, Like now,
I can't let them down because they went out of
their way to help me be able to do this.
So I've got to make them proud. I've got to
do right by them, but also by them, you know,
do right by themselves as well.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely, so that was the most one of
the most telling things that happened to me throughout my career.
If I can.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Add that absolutely, it sounds like you really advocated hard
for him, So it sounds like advocacy was a big
part of your time in the service.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yes, I would say that for sure. Because as you
talk about that, I had the opportunity to service the
chief of the nurse transition program and the one thing
that I always wanted nurses to understand because my upgrading,
if you will, and the military was pretty much the
line side, and as soon as I became a nurse,

(37:08):
I saw at difference between how we operate in the
military on the excuse me as a line side leader
versus the medical side leader, and I always advocated that
my nurses understood the line size mission. Absolutely, helping uncom

(37:30):
officers was so important, and not just a nurse but
an officer and understanding how leading looked. And I really
honed in on my leadership skills early, and that was
one of the blessings also, you know, having the opportunity
to go to leadership school at Langley Air Force Base
and winning the leadership award there and just being able

(37:52):
to advocate for those nurses. It was huge. And you
just never know how your career is going to play
yourself out. For all those things that happen along the way,
they just become huge and allowing you to do things differently.
And I was thankful that those small things that you
pick up along the way you continue to make sure
that you support others and doing the right thing. Like

(38:15):
you said, it's critically important all the time.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Absolutely, I love that. So how would you say so
when you retired, how how did your military service and
your transition process prepare you for the role that you're
currently in.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
You know, that's a good question. I think the greatest
thing that I've been able to pick up with the
transition experiences being able to lead in times of uncertainty.
Because I entered the military not knowing what I was
getting myself into. I was very much unsure about how

(38:53):
my future would look, how I'll be able to go
to school, how people would receive me, like all those
things were unknown to me. And that's similar when you
become a civilian. You don't know how things are going
to transpire. I had an interview with a major hospital.
We had about five interviews, and I still didn't accept
the position and I ended up in consulting. So being

(39:17):
able to navigate times of uncertainty was huge for me,
and also being able to push through when others doubted you.
So there were times throughout my military career when I
was told you can't do these things, and in their hearts.
They believed that it was a good reason, but that
never sat well with me, and I would definitely fight,

(39:41):
like you say, for advocacy. I would advocate for myself
all the time. And when I became a civilian, I
had to do the same thing, trying to find a
way to overcome those beliefs of those that I'm meeting
in the civilian community. And that was a lot harder
than I thought, though.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah, because I mean there's some things that in the military,
I mean, if things don't work out and you're you know,
advocating or you know, not necessarily testing limits, but like
you said, you know, just kind of having a questioning attitude,
like can you tell me where it says that? Can
you tell me where you know, what regulation says something
has to be a certain way. When you go out

(40:22):
into the civilian world, sometimes you don't have those things
to fall back on. Or if something doesn't work out
and you decide to get a different assignment to kind
of have a change of scenery or get out of
maybe a toxic situation, work wise, you don't always have
that option in the civilian world. It's not just as
easy as going well, let me go find a different
location to do this job. Sometimes that involves having to

(40:45):
quit and then go right back to the drawing board
of going through interviews and trying to find that next
you know fit if you will.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yes, And that was very different, and you know that's
forgot me to be able to navigate the civilian space, Amanda.
As you highlight that, I will tell you with me
going into the suicide prevention space with starting a nonprofit,
I witnessed a couple of suicides when I was on

(41:16):
active duty, and the scariest part is they were within
eleven months of each other, and that I never thought
that I would be here today advocating for suicide prevention.
But those suicides and in addition to my own challenge
trying to navigate the civilian space and not being able

(41:40):
to do all that I could to advocate for myself,
I got weary and being able to transition was not
easy for me. So witnessing those things and thinking about uncertainty,
that's what helps to prepare me for where I stand today.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Absolutely, And so tell us about Caring Souls for Veterans,
because you're the CEO and founder of that, and you've
alluded to the fact that it operates within the suicide
prevention space. So for our listeners, is what is Caring
Souls for Veterans?

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Thank you for this question, and it's so near and
dear to my heart. Caring Souls for Veterans. It's a
five oh one C three And we're a nonprofit that
really works hard to end veterans suicide while supporting our
healthcare professionals that are transitioning from the military. Our mission

(42:34):
is to minimize those emotional distressors that individuals experience when
they're leaving the military. And our vision is to define,
excuse me, redefine the military transition experience. I prioritize in
mental health while leveraging innovative technology and delivering compassionate support.

(42:54):
Awesome we fundation, Thank you. We fundamentally believe that every
service member deserves a fulfilling life after service. And I
anecdotally say, as healthcare professionals, we are responsible for delivering
care or services to nine point five million beneficiaries. And

(43:19):
if we're caring for everyone else in the world within
our military space, who is caring for us? So I
decided to Yeah, I decided to take this opportunity to
make sure that I focus on healthcare professionals to ensure
that we have a smooth reintegration into the civilian community,

(43:41):
because my transition was everything but easy, and there's so
many misnomers. Right, you have education, you have a really
a degree that everyone needs.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Everyone needs nurses absolutely, healthcare in general, people need healthcare professionals.
There will always be a need for.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Healthcare, absolutely absolutely, And it's really about signing your sweet spots.
How does that look for you? So it took quite
some time for me to do that. So one of
the programs that we have, it's called Operation Rewires. We
did a pilot several years ago. Actually wrote that pilot
while I was in one of my dark spaces, and

(44:21):
God just gave me the construst of Operation Rewire. And
what we do with Operation Rewire, it's a resilience retreat
for registered nurses that will form a military and we
really helped them redefine who they are as they strive
to find your sense of purpose after leaving the military

(44:42):
and that retreat. What I love about it most is
we actually give the nurses an opportunity to create their
own care plans. They create a care plan for a
life that they envision to be beneficial and fulfilling for
them and they get to define life their way. So
it's a three day, two night retreat that we've started.

(45:03):
We hosted here in Dorchester County, Maryland, and thus far
it has been very successful. The fact that we focus
on nursings is one huge differentiator. The other thing is
these nurses that have not thought to seek any mental
health support have done so, and that just warms my

(45:24):
heart to hear that. And then those that are immediately
in transition that we were able to capture, they really
say it changed their lives and just to have a
safe space where you can one to know that you're
not alone and build community, but too be able to
just pause and think about who you are and where

(45:45):
you want to be. So that's one of the first
initiatives that we've started with Caring Sols or Veterans. We
just got our eight board members on board, so I'm
thankful for that, and we'll be working to get into
lots of different spaces. Is particularly with the transition assistance offices,
being able to connect with them immediately and seeing how

(46:06):
we connect with some of the senior executives so we
can try to allow the healthcare professionals to have time
off to do our programs, so that'll be a lot
of work.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
In progress, absolutely, and your program kind of sounds like
a wonderful extension of something that I kind of experienced
when I was at the medg Group at Andrews Air
Force Base in Maryland. We had something called Care for
the Caregiver and it was actually something that they integrated
through the med Group Airmen and Family Readiness, which was

(46:40):
where I worked at the time. I was medical all
throughout my career, but I stepped out to do Airman
and Family Readiness and they kind of pieced this together
where they would have a meeting about I think they
tried to do it monthly or quarterly, and it was
called Care for the Caregiver, and it was an opportunity
to try to get some of these healthcare professionals out
of the clinic for about an hour or two and

(47:02):
just let them come over to maybe the airmin and
Family Readiness Center or a location somewhere on base that
was not on the medical campus and just kind of
let them come relax, have some food, have some conversation,
kind of you know, maybe share a little bit if
they wanted about, you know, how they were kind of
doing with all the stress that was involved with being

(47:23):
a healthcare professional. And I think it was something that
really kind of I think it was really something that helped,
but it was a very you know, short term, temporary
type of thing where your program kind of takes care
for the caregiver to a whole new level by integrating

(47:44):
this retreat for a few days and really just giving
them a chance to kind of unplug. And I loved
how you touched on trying to get into the organizations
where these healthcare professionals are to help them see the
value of giving them this downtime, to let them have
time off to go and do this so that they
can be a better not just a better person, but

(48:07):
a better healthcare professional, a better parent, a better significant other,
a better you know whatever, friend, sibling, whatever the case
might be. But ultimately helping the healthcare world see that
this is a benefit for them because this will help
them have a healthcare professional that can operate at a
more optimal level because they are getting a chance to

(48:28):
take a break, take a breath, care for themselves, or
at least receive some of that respect care. If you
will from other entities and agencies.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Yes, I love that you highlight that. And the one
thing I also learned to Amanda you're saying this, I
think about how burnout and fatigue is so real in
our healthcare space. Absolutely, And there was a study that
came out recently and it highlighted how healthcare profess or

(49:01):
seeking mental health support. And when I go into the
transition space, I think about the fact that transitioning service
members are at a high risk for suicide now and
again to the healthcare professional perspective, if I've been dealing
with all of this stuff while on active duty and

(49:21):
then I have a hard time transitioning out, how is
this going to work for me? So being able to
catch them before they go into a deep depression and
they can't figure things out, it's critically important to do that.
So I'm excited that they have a care for the
caregiver program that exists today, and I look forward to

(49:41):
perhaps connecting with the m Family Writiness Centers to see
how we can partner because this is huge and I
get very concerned when we have this belief of being
resilient and not really addressed in the issue head on.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
So I'm just going to say that, throw it around
in word only and not necessarily Indeed, I think there,
I think there's work to be done with that, for sure.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
Say it absolutely yes, And that's what we strive to
redefine resilience, where we really look at the problems, steer
it in a face, and talk it through. Like I
was at one point under the impression that when you
talk about suicide, it makes people uncomfortable and it makes
them think about harming themselves. But literature shows that that's
not the case. You talk about it, you address it,

(50:29):
and if someone's having a bad day and they don't
feel like they want to be here the next moment
or the next day, you talk about it and get
them the resources and the support that they need. Don't
judge them, right. It's just so many different things that
we can do, and that's what our agency really wants
to do, just to make the difference, because life is
short and everyone deserves to live a fulfilling life after

(50:52):
they've served their country and given all that they can
possibly give to their country. So I advocate for that wholeheartedly.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Amanda, Absolute, And how can listeners learn more or even
lend support to caring Souls for Veterans.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Sure, thank you. You can bet at www dot Caringfolso
Veterans dot org or you can send me an email
to volunteer. It's Aisha Ecocerra Hotel Alpha dot Harris h
A r r I at Caringsoulsfourvetterments dot org. We're always
looking for volunteers and particularly as we ramp up, so

(51:28):
we'll be looking forward to getting connected real soon. Love
to hear from.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Anyone, absolutely, and we would love to have you on
the show more often over time. We're trying to start
a lot more. A big part of our show focuses
on female veterans specifically, and so we were kind of
playing around with the idea of having a segment called
Sisters in Service, which the acronym would also be SIS,

(51:52):
so that kind of works out. So we definitely look
forward to having you on the show again. We are
so thankful for you taking the time to talk to
us about Caring Souls for Veterans and thank you for
your service. It's awesome that you were both enlisted in
an officer and you have that experience of both the
line side and medical and we absolutely look forward to

(52:12):
having you on the show. Again. So doctor Issha Harris,
thank you again for being with us and we look
forward to having you on more often to talk about
all the good things that caring souls for veterans is
up to.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Absolutely, Amanda, thank you for the opportunity to share my
story with you. You're amazing.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
I appreciate you absolutely and we'll have you on again.
Can't wait.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Sounds perfect. Enjoy your day and.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
That's our show for today. We want to thank our
sisters in service for being on the show today and
if you're a fellow sister in Service that would like
to be on the show, send me an email. My
email address is Machiato m a cc hiato at the
number one Rallypoint dot org, So send me an email

(52:59):
if you'd like to be on the show. We would
absolutely love to have you and have you come share
your story and from the Rally Point Show Rally Pointers
fall Out