The Rich Conwell Show - April 19, 2025

Rich tees off Season 3 with former PGA Tour golfer Steve Wheatcroft.  They talk about Steve's unique path to the Tour, the grind of playing with the best in the world, overcoming personal problems in life after the Tour, and more.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Rich Komal Golf Show. It's April twenty
twenty five, and this is the kickoff of season.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Three of the radio show.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
And as I ended last year on.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
A really good role with.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Some really good guests, I kick off this year with
an awesome guest. And it's really kind of neat because
we have a really strong Western Pennsylvania connection. But joining
us this week, and he's got an unbelievably cool golf
story is Steve Wheatcroft. Steve is from well, I'll let
him tell you all that he's from Washington, Pennsylvania. And

(00:38):
Steve is absolutely one of the and probably one of
the most honest people you will ever meet. Especially when
we get to the third segment of this, you're going
to start to understand the definition of honesty from Steve.
But before we get there, Steve, thanks for coming on.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
With us all.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Rich, Thanks so much for having me. It's pleasure to
be here.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
So, as I briefly kind of mentioned, so, so talk
to me a little bit about how you got your start,
you know, your origins.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
And all that fun stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, I grew up in a little town south of
Pittsburgh called Washington, Pennsylvania. I had a lot of family
from a town called Indiana, Pennsylvania. That's where I was technically,
I was born there and I lived there for six
months and then we moved down to Washington for the
next twenty years. But yeah, we used to go with
my grandparents and they were golf rats. They lived on

(01:30):
the fourteenth tee of a golf course and they would
play every Saturday Sunday, whether we were coming or not.
And we would, you know, get into town on a
Friday and one of them would be on the golf course,
and sometimes both of them, and then they'd come in
and they'd start playing cards with my parents and I'd
be bored out of my mind, as any you know,
four or five year old kid is. So they got

(01:52):
me a set of plastic clubs and I wandered out
back and started whacking golf balls around when I was
I was probably three four years old something like that.
But yeah, it was it was great. It was just
very convenient and Court usually wasn't too awful busy, so
I could go out and kind of have my way.
And once I kept going there long enough, some of
the people actually remembered me and knew when I was

(02:13):
in town. But yeah, that was kind of my first
kickoff from golf, and then I started playing. I was
an outdoor kid, so I played all the sports. I
was playing baseball, basketball, golf. I tried football for a year.
Just wasn't for me. But if it was outdoors and
you know, I had a ball involved with it, I
was playing it. And so I did all those for

(02:33):
I mean, I played baseball for ten years. I played
basketball for eight years. I played golf. So I just
I moved from sport to sport to sport throughout the season,
and I just I you know, I loved them all.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, you know it's funny that that football thing, I
did the same thing.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
I actually lasted two years.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
And when I figured out it took me two years
to figure out they were trying to hit me. I
didn't think that was a really good idea for me.
I'm like, no, this is this is not for me.
I'm not doing this anymore.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah, you know, like.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
I was, I was okay with baseball and basketball and
stuff like that, but that football thing, you're trying to
hit me.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
I'm I'm out, I'm out.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah. I just didn't have that aggressive bone in my body.
You know, some guys just love to run full speed
and tackle somebody, and that just wasn't for me. I I,
you know, did it a few times, and I guess
good and at that and made my coaches happy. But
I was like, man, I just I didn't really get
the buzz and everybody else seemed to be getting you know,
hitting somebody hard here, So just wasn't for me.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah. So so okay, So growing up obviously you're in Washington,
you went to Trinity High School. Yeah, and you you
played obviously through high school and you played. I mean,
when did I guess The question I always ask people
is when did you figure out you might be pretty
good at this?

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh? Man, that's a really good question. I don't think
I ever really knew. I just kept I was always
the guy that never felt like I belonged. But I
just kept playing and trying to get better. So when
I was in high school, I was very, very average,
to say the least. You know, we were playing nine
home matches, and I think my strokeout is right around

(04:11):
thirty nine, if that tells you anything. So I mean,
seventy eight don't get you anything in this golfing world.
By day and they got you next to nothing back then,
so I don't know. I had did grades in high school.
I wanted to go to college. I wanted to go
to a big sports program just because I loved athletics,
just wanted to be a part of it. I was
a huge Indiana basketball fan and left coach Night and

(04:34):
what he was doing there. And you know, the business
school at Indiana was top notch. I think it was
top kind of the country at the time. And I
looked at playing at some small like Naia schools, and
I got a couple of Division three calls to play golf,
but there wasn't anything real serious, and nobody was begging
me to come by any means. And so honestly, it

(04:56):
came down to Indiana University, where I figured I would
just and I would try to walk on to the
golf team if they'd let me. But my goal was
just to get a business degree and you know, head back,
and I assumed I was going to be in the
golf space one way or the other, probably a head
bro it. So, of course, and uh, if he came
down to Indiana University or came down to Westminster College,

(05:18):
it was a small, little Naia School in Amish Country
north of Pittsburgh, and the football coach was the golf coach.
Basically meant he was just going to drive the band
the tournaments for us. So I don't know what it was.
I just wanted to go to Indiana and I begged
the coach for a walk on tryout. He told me
no about five or six times. And then we just

(05:39):
happened to see the team play over in Ohio State
and I walked over and introduced myself, and I guess
he had had enough of me, because I think the
exact words were, Jesus Christ, kid, I'll give you a
six month tryout and then I'm going to cut you.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, it was great. He was coach Knight's best friend,
so that should tell you something. And then he coached
the same way. But yeah, so I was like, well, hey,
I get to go hit golf balls for six months
for free, and that's all, you know, the best way
I looked at it. And so I went to Indiana
University in the fall, and I you know, I was
quote unquote a walk on, but I was the last

(06:14):
guy on the team for sure, and I just we
had a first team all American on the team, excuse me,
and I just pick you backed up of him. Whenever
he was doing I was trying to do. Uh. Nobody
really wanted to play when it was snowing outside and
except for him, and so of course I would call
him and say let's go, and I'd lose some money
gambling to him. But I was learning as I was
going every week, and the coach like my work ethic

(06:38):
enough he kept me around for another semester and then
I went home that summer and that's when things started
to click. I entered my first ever amateur event. I
was a tri State Amateur in Pittsburgh and I ended
up winning, and I had a decent summer going and
then I qualified for the Western Amateur and the US Amateur.
That the two big national events. And I played terribly

(06:59):
at bow, but it was still nice to be in
those fields and get to see the best players in
the country. That was kind of my I guess my
AHA moment where it's like, Okay, I'm better than I
thought I was going to be, and I'm a decent golfer,
but you know, I played throughout my college career there
and I was all big ten a couple of times,
and I never even thought about turning professional, to be

(07:22):
honest with you, But I played with these same guys
from Penn State, Michigan State, Iowa, whatever it was, for
four years and we all became friends. And when I
was talking to them my senior year and kept asking,
you know, hey, what are you going to do when
you get out of college, and they kept saying, I'm
going to turn pro I honestly, my first answer was
it was because I didn't know what they were thinking.

(07:44):
Then they said what golf, And I was like, well,
you think like I think, and I've been beating you
for four years, and I just didn't understand why people
would try to play golf professionally because it was just
it was such a mythical thing and something he told you,
you know, your your grandparents when they asked what you
wanted to be when you grew up, and but it
never you know, I might as well said I was

(08:05):
an astronaut, right. It was just so foreign to me,
and so I don't know. I guess I just said, hey, look,
everybody else is trying it, and I guess there's no
rush to get into the real world here. So I
tried playing many tours and to your to your original points,
I never I don't think I ever really had that
moment of like, oh my god, I'm actually pretty good
at this. It was just okay, I'm good enough, like

(08:29):
I'm you know, finishing the middle of the pack here. Okay,
well now I'm starting to win. Okay, that's fine, but
it's not at the biggest level. And you know, now, okay,
now I got onto the corn Pay or nationwide tour
at the time, like that's that's a pretty cool step.
But I got my brains beat in that year. And
it wasn't until I got my first PGA Tour card,
and even still, my first thought was, oh my god,

(08:50):
I'm going to get destroyed next year, like these guys
are going to absolutely smoke me on the golf course.
And they did. But I just, you know, I I
learned as I went, and I just kept learning every year.
And I don't think I ever really thought of myself
as a world beater, which was probably one of the
detriments to my game, is that I'd never I was

(09:10):
very self deprecating, as you can tell, right, and I
just never believed like I was a top you know,
I'd stand on the range next to ry McElroy and
I'd stopped hitting balls and just watch him hit a
few because I was like, God, it just makes a
different noise, Like I'm I'm on the biggest stage in golf,
and my irons have never made that noise. When I
hit them, it was it was very eye opening. But yeah,

(09:34):
so I just I don't know. I was a lifelong grinder.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
I was the guy that just kept kept showing.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Up, stubborn. Yeah, I just kept showing up and hopefully
something good was gonna happen. And my my dream was
always shoot me went on the PGA Tour. Unfortunately that
never happened. But I just kept showing up.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
So let me let me walk you backwards a little
bit when you were when you were younger through high school,
Like who helped you? Like, obviously people helped. Yeah, but
people helped.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
People help everybody.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
I mean, like, you know, people help I'm not you know,
I never played the corn Ferry Tour nationwide tour.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
People helped me, and I know that they helped you.
So who helped you?

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, that's a great question. I I my first thought
and my first answer would probably be I was very
much self taught. I didn't really have my first golf
lesson until I was I don't even know, fourteen fifteen.
Maybe I started working in a golf course in Pittsburgh,
South Point Golf Club when I was fifteen, and there

(10:38):
the head professional, theirs name is Ned Weaver. Ned helped
me out a ton, just giving the opportunities to play,
and you know, he would play and I would play
something together. He'd help, you know, with certain techniques here
and there, but you know, just nothing nothing permanent, nothing official,
just you know a little tick to you, a little
tip there. But I was I was more or less

(10:59):
very much self thought. I kind of did things at
my own pace. And but those guys definitely helped me
to you know, open up doors and allowed me, you know,
by working a tough one, allowed me to play golf
when I wasn't working, and the meet members and the
practice with them, and uh just kind of opened my
world to the golf world other than just the junior

(11:20):
shirt that I've been on.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
So so you know, the one thing about Ned is,
I'll tell you what, There's no way anybody you know
or I know can dress as well as Ned Weaver.
There's no way anybody could dresses well in Ned Weaver.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
If you don't believe it, just asking.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
No kidding.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
But the other thing is, you know what the thing
about Ned Ned makes the sting look like those guys
Paul Newman and Rob Ford, This thing looks like they
don't know how to do, like with the worm dirty
blue jairs.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Ye oh my god, that I could dress.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Boy. He loved his h he loved his fancy shoes.
He was always put together. I mean here, there was
no accidents there.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
What he was doing, no accidents there.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
That's funny.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
So okay, So then you get through Indiana and so
you start you try to figure out you're just going
to give this a shot, right, I mean that's pretty
much where we are.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, So where'd you go first?

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Well, A funny little wrinkle to this story was when
I started decide. When I decided to turn pro, I
had to start raising money. I was it's very expensive
to do, and I didn't have the money. My family
didn't have the money, and we just you know, I
was going to have to raise some capital. So basically
what I did was I created a partnership and I
would sell shares of myself for five thousand dollars and

(12:35):
then I would you know, I had a contract written
up where ninety percent of whatever I made I would
get back to the to the partnership until we broke even,
and then we just put at fifty to fifty. So
they were just going to give me a loan to
go play, and then whatever I was winning, they were
going to get the majority of back, just so I
could keep my career going as long as I could
and try to get my breakthrough moments. And so I

(12:58):
went to one gentleman. He was interested, and I had
about about thirty thousand dollars is raised, and I went
to meet him about joining the partnership, and he told
me that he doesn't do partnerships, didn't like partnering with
other people, and he wanted to do the whole thing
by himself. And he offered to give me eighty thousand

(13:19):
dollars a year for three years, and I was scored.
I was like, oh my god, I got a three
year runway here with you. I was trying to get
to fifty thousand dollars a year and he'd given me
eighty eight year and yeah, so I mean I knew
the gentleman as well. I mean, I'd known him for
years through South Point, and you know, I knew he

(13:39):
had the money, and I knew this wasn't a you
know all, he wasn't trying to flex on me, so
to speak. He was. I knew he had the cash.
So they had a business dealer was getting ready to
go through. He said he was going to be very
busy for the next week or two, but they would
be in touch, you know, head down to I was
going to get down to Jupiter West Palmonry because that's
where a lot of the guys from Oakmont where I

(13:59):
started to work, they were working down there at Seminoles,
So I had a home base there, I think, sure
enough as soon as I you know, I lived at
Seminole's clubhouse for about three weeks. Luckily Bob Porter's nice
enough to help me out there, and then I had
to finally go get myself an apartment, and I saw
I bought her. I rented a one bedroom condo, and

(14:20):
no sooner than you know, three days after I signed that,
the gentleman had his finance guy call and said, hey,
we're not going to be able to do anything. Our
hotel deal just went bad and I said, you know,
what does that mean, like one year instead of three
or you know, a little less each year, and he said, no, no,
we can't do anything. Oh so there I am. I'm

(14:40):
living in West Palm, I have a condo. Now I
have no income. I have no money. So I did
what every other show of Mini Tour Guy does and
I started getting jobs. When I was caddying at Seminole
in the mornings, and then I would go wait tables
at a sports bar called Duffies at night. And I

(15:01):
did that for about I don't know, three or four months,
and realized that I was getting no practice time in.
So I went to a place called Jonathan's Landing and
became an assistant professional there for a drive named Fred Harkness.
It was wonderful. And then I was waiting tables and
doing a food runner position at a place called the
Waterway Cafe with PGA boulevards there. And so I was

(15:25):
practicing when I could, but I was working two jobs
every day basically, and you know, grow it in a
tournament here or some practice they were and it just
wasn't very efficient, to say the least. But yeah, So
I was living in Jupiter and then, luckily, I was
able to raise a little bit of money through the
partnership that I originally tried to do, and so that

(15:46):
got me onto the Golden Bear Tour and the Gateway Tour,
which was you basically put up about eighteen thousand dollars
for the summer season and you'd play fifteen events or
so fourteen or fifteen events. It was more or less
just glorified gam you know, everybody puts their own money
up and you go out and play for it, and
there's cuts and seventy two holes and or you know,

(16:06):
fifty four holes, whatever the tournaments were. But so I
was doing that, and I got my brains beat in
the first year and was making about half the cuts
and not making any money, and then thought about quitting
about one hundred times. I decided to give it another go. Luckily,
I still had a little bit of money left, and
I started contending in tournaments now and finishing better and

(16:28):
was making enough to float myself from then the third
year I started winning, and by the fourth year I
was winning everything. I was winning the money list for
the summer season. I was, you know, in the top three.
In the winter season. Yeah, I made almost two hundred
thousand dollars my last year on the Mini Tours.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Wow, unheard of as unheard off?

Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, I mean if you could make that was kind
of the peak of the Mini Tour season or the
seasons back where you could actually make some you know,
I was winning thirty five thousand dollars every week week
when I won, And now you're lucky if you're getting
fifteen or eighteen thousand for wins.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Okay, So at that point, okay, so I'm gonna start,
We're gonna take a commercial break, and we come back.
I want to hear what we do from from there. Okay, Yeah,
all right, this is the Rich Commo Golf Show. Welcome
back to Rich Kombo Golf Show. We are joined this
week by Steve Wheatcroft and Steve was just just dropped
off when we jumped to the commercial break. He was

(17:27):
talking about coming off some very successful seasons on the
Mini Tour Mini Tours. So Steve, go ahead, So you
just you're kind of cashing in and you made about
two hundred thousand dollars, So then now you got to
be thinking you are probably the best player in the
entire world, I would think, so, yeah, tell me what's next.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, I mean I had some confidence going, but it
was again, it was all based in you know, South Florida.
You know, I wasn't traveling. I wasn't playing against the
West Coast guys. I wasn't playing against the Northeast guys.
I just I found my nick down there. I was
playing really good golf, but I knew I needed to
take that next step. And the next step for all
Mini tour guys is Q School. You know, you have

(18:07):
to go to the you try to get through the
second stage of Q School. That was a big one
for everybody. And if you got through that, you knew
you had some status out on the nationwide tour. You know,
with a full schedule, you're traveling the country, you're playing
for bigger money. You have opportunities through that to get
to the PGA Tour. And luckily the end of two
thousand and five, I went to Q School and I

(18:29):
got through second stage, and it was just such a
weight off my shoulders and I wish I knew then
what I knew now because I went to finals and
I was practicing all day every day, and I was
playing for eight you old practice rounds, and I was
more or less exhausted by the time the tournament got there,
and it definitely showed. I went out and shot a
million for six rounds and I finished one hundred and tenth,

(18:52):
which I mean I still had some corn prayers, some
nation wide door status, but it wasn't great. And I
played the full seat out there as many terms as
I could get into with my status, and I finished
about eighty fifth on the money list, and I was
getting ready to hang it up. You know, I kept
looking myself in the mirror, going Okay, look, you made
it to a pretty high level. You tried as hard
as you could. You're obviously just not good enough to

(19:15):
take that next step. And uh, you know it might
be time now. You know, I wasn't getting any younger.
I was probably twenty eight twenty nine at the time,
and I said, you know, maybe it's time to look
somewhere else. And I said, I'll go to Q school
one last time and hopefully I can get a full
nationwide tour card out of it, and then that way
I can kind of make my own schedule, and that
way I don't have to play when they tell me

(19:36):
to play. And so I went to finals and I
shot seventy It was something like seventy three, seventy five,
seventy one, something like that the first three rounds, and
again I was in about one hundred and tenth place,
and I knew the top seventy five was going to
get me a full nationwide tour card, so I just
kept grinding. I had three more rounds and I shot

(19:56):
sixty five and moved up to about, I don't know,
forty fIF the fiftieth, and then I shot sixty five
again and I moved up twenty second, and I just
remember going to bed that night thinking, oh my god,
I'm inside the number here, Like if I have a
decent day tomorrow, I could get a PJ Tour card
out of this somehow. And I went out and played
probably the most one of the best rounds of golf

(20:18):
I've ever played in my life. I shot sixty seven
bogue free, fairly stress free, as much as that run
could be, and I ended up finishing seventh in the tournament,
which just, I mean floored me. I didn't know what
to what to do. I mean, it's still the best
day of my golfing life, hands down, It's not even close.
I was just so thrilled, and I had my family

(20:40):
there with me. My parents run Cloud nine two. They
couldn't stop smiling, and I mean, it just it was
the greatest night. It was such relief and amazing to
me that, oh my god, I'm gonna go teed up
next to Tiger Woods. I'm gonna go teed it up
next to Rory mclerol, I'm gonna go tee up next
to all these guys. And I didn't feel like I
belonged there, but hey, I got a shot at least,

(21:03):
you know, and I'm gonna have some guaranteed money coming
in now because I'm on the PGA Tour. And so
that was you know, those two years kind of went
by quickly, and they weren't the golf. It wasn't the
golf that I wanted to play, but it opened up
again opportunities and just showed me that, you know, a
my golf was decent enough, but my mind was strong
enough that I could help, you know, push my mediocre

(21:25):
talent through some barriers that a lot of people probably
couldn't get through.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Give me an example of that.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
I just, you know, I knew that I was not
a quality ball striker. I've always been that way. I
was good with wedges, I was good with chipping and putting.
I was a very average driver of the golf ball.
Back then. I was, you know, probably better than what
I would have been now because I was straight and
accuracy actually mattered back then. But you know, i'd get

(21:57):
it in the fairways. I'd slap some iron either on
the green or around the green, and i'd either get
it up and down or i'd make a twenty footer.
And because that's what I did, I was a short
game guru out there. But I just, I don't know.
I guess I just never let the moment, as I
describe it to people, you're either so mentally strong that
you're able to get over certain things have happened on

(22:17):
a golf course, or you're dumb enough not to understand
the gravity of the moment. And I mean, either one plays,
trust me. But I just always knew that I was
mentally strong enough that I could handle you know a
lot of things that would have sent guys to the
looting bin, and you know, random out of the game
of golf. Because I don't know, I just I guess

(22:38):
I just saw a bigger picture, and I'm like, hey,
it's fine, I'm gonna learn from this. I'll move on.
You know, it's embarrassing as hell, but hey, who cares.
I'm still here. I'm still let's keep fighting and I'll
figure I'll learn from it and get better for the
next time. And I don't know, I just you know,
perfect examples of me getting through that Q school. I
had no business being there. Thought is, I'm going to

(23:00):
get killed next year, and I did. I finished two
hundred and sixth on the money List. I didn't even
know they had them any guys, four hard. I didn't.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
I didn't think they kept that list that long.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
No, dude, So luckily they it goes to like two
thirty somehow. But I wasn't far off from back, you know,
the back I was wag coaching to beck and then
I was the front. But again, it's like I got
done that year. I had zero status anywhere in the world.
I mean, you and I had to say I'm on
a status and I just said, okay, I mean it
would have been the perfect time to quit. I said, no.

(23:32):
You know, I learned so much that year, and I
learned what I needed to do different. You know, my
little slap cut four iron wasn't going to work on
the PGA tour. I had to learn how to hit
a four iron two hundred and twenty yards and have
it come in like a butterfly with tore feet, right,
because those greens were rock hard, and you know every
hole out there's two twenty over water with a tough
thin So I started working on a golf swing that

(23:53):
would you know, play a little bit better on the tour.
I didn't have the consistency that I obviously would have
won it, but slowly again, slowly getting better, slowly working
on the things that needed to be worked on, but
not you know, not quitting, not running away from the moment,
just embracing it and trying to move forward.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
That's so, that's yeah, because you know, it's funny. I
talked to I talked to Missy Birdie Audi, I know
you know who she is, and and Chris and Chris
chatter and they they all said, out there the first
time is like you you actually not only do you
realize that, like like the commercials aren't wrong, these guys
are good and and you're out there and then like

(24:37):
you have to learn how to take care of yourself,
like like you know what time you're going to bed,
you know what I mean, Like like like let's let's
remember that maybe it's more important to know what time
to go to bed than it is to hit fifteen
more wedges, because like maybe each of them are equally
as important.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
And it's it's crazy because because.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Like like they they told me that, they're like, you know,
you have to learned too.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
You know.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
It's it gets dark early, and it gets dark and
it gets dark late, so you get you have to
you have to.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Pick you know, I mean, you know, I mean, and
you know, so if you.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Want to get up early in practice, that's fine, but
you're gonna go to better early because you can't be
doing both ends of the sea saw because the seesaw
won't work.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah, it's funny you said that. I had I have
my own podcast and I had Parker mcdoxman on who
you Know. He's now the short game chef out there.
He works at the Ton of Guys. But he played
a you know for a while on the PGA tour
and he said when he was getting started, he found
a sponsor that would pay him money to go out
and play. But his sponsor had some stipulations, and I
thought this was golden and he said, look, I'll give

(25:41):
you whatever the money is, fifty thousand dollars, let's say.
But here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna go out
and you're gonna chase some Monday qualifiers. You're gonna play
some tournaments on the West coast, You're gonna play some
tournaments on the East Coast. You're gonna play some ternments
in the Northeast. But you're gonna learn how to travel.
You're gonna learn how to fly. You're going to learn
how to rent, you know, get rental cars. You're going
to learn how to stay in hotels. You're going to

(26:03):
learn how to you know, how you heat, how you
fit in time for working out, Like you're going to
be a PGA tour player playing mini tours, right, but
you're going to learn that part of the job. Otherwise,
you know, you can find yourself another sponsor. And I
was like, that guy is light years ahead. And you know,
I wish he had sponsored everybody because there's so many
guys that go from their mom's living room when they're

(26:26):
in high school to a college apartment with four of
their best friends to getting a PGA tour card and
now they're traveling thirty five weeks a year, and they're
lonely as can be, and they're just isolated and they
hate the life out there, but they don't know any
different because they've never had anything like that in their life.
So but yet to their point, you know, Missy and Chris,

(26:50):
they they learned quickly that you have to learn how
to travel. It's an art. It's an art form learning
how to travel like that, and maybe you maybe you
need to say no to some of the those program
parties that you're dying to go to because you know
there's gonna be some celebrities floating around, or you know,
just yeah, hey there's a great concert. Yeah I'd love
to go see it, but you know, I'm actually in
contention for the tournament and I don't really need to

(27:13):
be out that late. And maybe it's best if I
just watch a movie and go to bed.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, that's what I talked to Chris Smith about the
same thing. He said. He said, it's an ort of
saying no.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
You know, Oh God, I wish I could, but I
just can't, you know, And he goes, it's hard when
you're twenty. Like you said, you're twenty six years old
and you're in your four buddies were just, you know,
fifteen minutes ago they were waking up at ten o'clock
on Saturday morning, and now now you're out there going,
wait a minute, I got eleven oh eight, you know,
I got to get eight hours in. I got to

(27:44):
get up at seven. Everybody thinks I can get on
bed at ten thirty and go do this.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
I can't. I can't, you know.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
So while it would be great to go see Hoody
and the Blowfish, I'm actually gonna go back and go
to bed.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
It's funny you actually use that one, because that was
one of the big ones for me. Was I remember
I didn't want to go, but I wanted to see
who did in the Blowfish And they had a private
concert at the House of Blues I think it was
in New Orleans, and I knew like it was gonna
be a who's who, and sure, I like Bill Murray
was in there, the Peyton Manning eli Archie, they were

(28:21):
all in there, and like, I went anyway, but I
was exosted for it a couple of days after and
I had a blessed but again it was my rookie
year on tour, and I was like, what am I
not going to go see these guys? Like I've looked
up the Peyton, my many my whole life. I would
I'd killed to get to meet him, and I did.
I hung out with him that night. I hung out
with Bill Murray that night, had a few cocktails with

(28:42):
you know, some of my golfing buddies, and we just
an awesome night, listened to Who in the Blowfish Play?
But you know, is that wise for my golf game?
Absolutely not. But I wasn't going to turn it down
as being twenty eight, twenty nine, my first year on
the tour.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Right.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
But the older you get and the wiser you get,
you learn, man, I really do have to say no
a lot more than what I do. And I need
to take care of myself out here and take care
of my own frame of mind because nobody else is looking.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Out for you, right right, That's exactly exactly right. You know,
the guy in the mirror is the only one who's
on your side. He literally is. He's the only one
on your side. So all right, so enough of the
self deprecation. Okay, how many times did you win on
nationwide tour.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
I won twice. I won in twenty eleven it was
the Miwood Prince George's County Open over just at that
of DC, and then I won in Boise in twenty fourteen,
the Alverton's Boise Open, So two very different wins. I
won the first one by twelve shots, which is still

(29:46):
a record, the only sign of my name in any
record book. And then the second one would kind of
rejuvenated my career. I was getting ready to quit in
twenty fourteen. My wife was pregnant with our first son,
and I just had enough. I played two miserable seasons
on the nationwide tour back to back and just was
ready to be done. And I went out and screwed

(30:08):
all that up by winning, and boys in a playoff?

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Who's you beating the playoff.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
Steven Alker, Who's gone on to win about five hundred
million dollars on the champions so far.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
See.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Uh so, all right, so all right now you just
now you brought that up, right, So now you've got
a family developing, correct, and it just won. So at
some point did you make a decision that you were done?
I mean, did you did you have to make that decision.
Was that decision made for you.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
I made that decision in twenty fourteen. Like I said, uh,
I was actually interning with the Golf Channel while I
was playing golf. So I would I would, honestly, I
would play in the mornings and then I would find
Rich Beam in the TV pound and throwing ahead said
and get everything ready to go, and then I would

(31:03):
follow a group in the afternoon and I would shadow
him and I'd do a little bit of TV work.
But I was prepping for you know, I was just
trying to build some tape for the Golf Channel for
CBS and for a few people that had reached out
about possibly, you know, me doing TV work with them.
So that's you know. Even in Boise when I won,
I found Beamer Friday afternoon and I just looked at

(31:26):
him and I was like, all right, when are we going?
And he looked at me like I was nuts, and
what are you doing? And I was like, let's go, man,
I gotta get some film, you know, and he's like,
go home, go win a golf tournament, like go you're leading,
and I was like, it's fine, Beamer, I know I'm
not gonna win, Like I've been playing crappy all year
and it is what it is. I had two good rounds,
let's go, let's get do some work, and he wouldn't

(31:48):
let me, so he told me to go home and
then cheer enough. He was the one that interviewed me
when I won.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
He is absolutely of the nicest human beings you ever
meet in your life.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Oh, Beemer's great. Yeah, he was a lot of fun.
You gotta be careful with him on like I said, nights.
He was the ride. He was great, and he was
so good for me to shadow because we were had
very similar personalities and we could go out and just
pre wheel it and talk for the way we would
normally talk. And but yeah, so that was my first

(32:17):
looking look at quitting. I just had had enough of it.
It was just wearing me out playing all the bad golf,
and I just I felt like I was better than
what I was showing and it just never showed up
and it was just exhausting. And then luckily I won
in Boise and I actually told my wife earlier that
week I was gonna win, which was weird. Nick cut

(32:37):
off guard too, But it's like, I just love it
out here. I love Boise. I love the atmosphere, I
love the weather, I love the restaurants, I love the
golf course. I'm just in a good place. And sure
enough I shut twenty four under in one and then
I kind of got my spriut int my stride. I
finally found some positivity and confidence on the golf course.

(33:02):
And I played four straight years on the PGA Tour
from twenty fifteen to twenty eighteen, and I had a
chance to win in Home Springs. I was leading with
nine holes to go and then just kind of stalled
out in the back nine. I think got birdied the
last two to shoot two under on the back, but
I ended up losing by one. I think it was
the Bill Haas. And then in Canada in twenty sixteen,

(33:25):
I should have won that golf tournament. I kind of
to go enough to go full Bob Rotella on you here,
but it was the I made a plot on fifteen
to you know, take the leader. I tied the lead,
but the other guy was already in the club. I
was finished, and I had two easy part five and
a short part four coming up, and for the first
time all week, I thought about a result instead of

(33:48):
the process. And you know, instead of going shot by
shot by shot, I started thinking, well, I'll bertie one
of these last three, and I came completely out of
my process and ended up I ended up sculling a
bunker shot because I didn't realize there was no stand
in the bunker on eighteen. But anyway, long story short,
I should have won there. And then you know, I

(34:09):
put together some decent years and that those are the
years where I felt like I could win on the
PGA Tour. But yeah, twenty nineteen, I had to go
back to the corn Ferry Tour. I played okay, but
I was just exhausted and I was just tired of
the grind. I was tired of traveling, I was tired
of being away from kids. And so yeah, I walked

(34:30):
away with full status on the nationwide tour corn Perry Tour,
and I had because of COVID, I ended up getting
like thirty six starts and I didn't really use any
of them. I just I didn't want to go back
out there. I didn't want to do it again, and
they just expired, ironically enough, for a couple of months ago.
I had them for five years and never had any

(34:52):
inclination to go using Wow, Okay, I didn't miss the
game at all either. I walked away and I thought
six months in I thought I was going to be
an absent mental mess and missed the game like crazy.
And I didn't miss it at all.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
That's interesting.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
When we come back from this commercial, we're going to
talk about that for a second. Then we're going to
talk about what what what what was next for coming
out of that. Uh. This is the rich Comwall Golf Show.
Welcome back to rich Comwallgolf Show. We're joined this this
week by Steve Watcroft. Steve has told us his path
up until the point where he walked away from the
PGA Tour and the corn Ferry Tour with many exemptions

(35:30):
or many tournament entries in his wallet, so to speak.
But Steve, so it was it was it easy to
walk away?

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah? I really was. I I thought I was going
to miss it crazy because it was all I knew,
you know, since college and say heck even my junior years.
I just I didn't miss it. I got about six
months into quote unquote retirement and I just I didn't
miss it. I missed paying great golf on the PGA Tour.

(36:02):
But that's so few and far between. It's like the
grind wasn't worth trying to chase that for one more moment.
And you know, I was getting older, the injuries started
to pile up, and I'd gotten through my career basically
scott free with injuries for the most part. But I,
you know, competing against Justin Thomas every week and Jordan Spie,

(36:24):
these kids that are twenty two, twenty three with not
a care in the world, and they can go practice
all day for ten hours if they really wanted to.
And I've got two kids at home, and I can't
put the time in that I need to be doing
because they're so much better than me to begin with that,
you know, the old veteran savvy wisdom doesn't work like
it used to right now that you get these twenty

(36:46):
year old kids that think they can beat anybody, and
they usually do, so I just I was fine with it.
You know, I'd never thought I'd playing one professional golf tournament,
let alone three hundred and seventy of them. But I,
you know, I dream. I caught the dream. I got
to live it, and I lived in a phenomenal life
for a long time out there and but enough was enough.

(37:08):
You know when you when you're standing on a driving
range and in Idaho on a Saturday morning, did you
miss the cut? And you're facetiming with your son at
his birthday party and you're have to keep jumping off
of FaceTime because you're crying. Uh, it's not it's not
the life that you know they're going to advertise on
full swing, right, you know, it's a brutal You know,

(37:29):
then I'm gonna go sit in the empty hotel room
by myself when I don't want to be out there.
But it was too much to change the flight to
get back to the next event, and right, you just
little things like that and it just kept. It just
wears you down. It beats you down, and uh to
do that, you know, it's not all glamorous like they
show on TV. It's there's a there's a lot of

(37:50):
people out there grinding and fighting for their lives out there,
and it's just it's exhausting. That's how I was fine
walking away.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
I talked to Chris about the same thing and he
he won West Yester. He was like, you know what,
unbelievable win I got to play. I got that treated
completely differently, but because you know what is so hard.
It's so hard people think. People think they see you
on TV at eleven thirty or one thirty or three
thirty on Saturday. They didn't see the other five days

(38:19):
that went into that moment.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
So all right, so let me ask you a fanboy question.
Who's the best player you ever played with?

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Hmm, that's a good question. Uh. That round that I
kind of gagged at home in Canada, I played with
Dustin Johnson and he was world number one. He had
just wanted Oakmond a couple of weeks before that. I mean,
he didn't have his best stuff that day and his
C game was still just ridiculous to watch. And luckily,

(38:49):
I mean, of course was rock hard that week. It
was you know from some of the guys you played
a bunch of British Opens and whatnot. They said it
was the firmest golfers they'd ever seen. So I was
hitting this little you know, running cut off the tee
and I'm like, here we go, Dustin's gonna just pound one.
We hit siller balls in the first hole and we
get up there and he's like fifteen yards of by me.
Like that's it. Oh, this is great, you know, keeping

(39:10):
up with Dustin. And then we got to the one
hole where you can kind of let it go and
there's no real trouble around, and he hit it about
fifty by me and I was.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Like, oh, there he is there.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
But yeah, he was just like I was drumming him
for fifteen holes. It wasn't even a competition, like I
was just beating him down. And then he just showed
up the last three holes and went eagle parr birdie
and ended up beating me by one because I went
bogey parr bogey coming in here, par bogey bogey coming
in and I was like, God, he didn't even have
it today, and he almost chipped into tie the lead

(39:43):
on the last hole. I would, I would probably say, Dustin,
I still I would stop on the range and watch
Rory hit balls. I never got paired with him, Otherwise
that would have been an easy answer for me. I could.
I could watch Rory swing and golf club all day,
and you know I would. I would skip my own
practice to watch him warm up because I feel like

(40:03):
I could probably get better by watching himself. But yeah, okay,
I probably not.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Gust answer, So okay, so you walk away. So what
do you do next?

Speaker 3 (40:14):
I got approached by a gentleman who was a friend
of mine. He worked for Northwestern Mutual up in the Watching, DC.
He was kind of a big way with them, and
it still is that. He was trying to come work
for him up there, and I said, you know, Leo,
I love you to death. I'm not living in DC.
I just don't want any part of that area. And
so he was nice enough he set me up with

(40:34):
the managing partner down here in Jacksonville. And so I
went to work and I met with him. They loved,
they loved the idea of me coming on. So I
started doing that, and I went through all my licensing, credentialing,
and I passed all my exams first try, and I
was saying, okay, I must still have something in there.
I didn't burn my brain completely out. And so I

(40:56):
just kind of did the same thing I always, you know,
the only thing I knew, and I was just head down,
time to grind, and I worked as hard as I could,
trying to build a book of business with you know,
life insurance, disability, insurance, investments, a newit, easy name it,
you know, retirement, planning. And the first year went really well.
I was winning awards for you know, the rookie of

(41:18):
the year, so to speak, and was bringing some some
okay money. Nothing spectacular, but I knew it took time
to build. And the second year kind of the commissions
went down a little bit. Haired year they started really
going down. I just the business was kind of drying up,
and I was getting very frustrated and I just didn't
enjoy it. I just wasn't passionate about it, and it

(41:42):
started to show in my business and I, I don't know,
we were just having you know, all kinds of issues,
and I think I was just more or less somewhere
along the line of Mike. My third year was probably
right around twenty twenty two, I started going into like
a dark place mentally. I just I didn't I woke

(42:03):
up one day and I just didn't know who I was.
More like, I wasn't like Steve the golfer was the
only mentality that I ever knew, and it was it was,
you know, golf wasn't what I did. It was who
I was. And that was a large detriment. I didn't
know it at the time, but that's all I knew.
And then one day I just woke up and realized
he was gone, Like that guy was no longer here.

(42:25):
And you know, nobody even knew that I played golf.
Nobody recognized that I played golf, and not that I
needed that recognition, just I kind of realized that I just,
you know, they didn't know who I was, and I
didn't really know who I was. And then we started
having some financial issues where just weren't bringing in the money,
and you know, we're spending more than we're making, and

(42:46):
you know, I had a big commission deal that was
supposed to go through, and I got a text that
morning saying that he was going to hold off. And
we put a lot of time into this client and
thought it was a done deal, and he held all
he said he was going to hold off a year
and a half for two years, and I just I
lost it. I started having like a panic attack. I
was the only one in the house seven fifteen in
the morning, and I started like, my hands started shaking,

(43:10):
my face got all hot. I just I was having
a borderline panic attack. And I didn't know what to do,
but I walked over and I poured myself a glass
of vodka with I was a little splash of orange juice,
and I sat down. I turned on Sports Center and
I just tried to catch my breath and relax for
a minute. And it very much did relax me, and

(43:32):
enough to where I got up and poured a second one,
and hell, who knows, I probably took one to work
with me. But that was kind of where everything changed.
And you know, that was the that kind of helped
protect me from the darkness, so to speak. And I
just I was so much easier to numb myself into

(43:55):
face reality and deal with trying to fix myself. And
that's where I started going down that nasty path and
I started drinking heavily morning, noon, night. It didn't matter.
When I wanted one, I made one, and I kept
it a big secret. Obviously nobody knew. My wife didn't
even know to the point where, you know, this went

(44:16):
on for the better part of two years, and when
I finally started to see the writing on the wall
and I cassed up to her that I had a
problem with alcohol, and she's like, well, I've seen you
drink like five times since we've met. And I was like, well, honey,
I've been drunk for two years. Right, you don't know it.
You never would have known it. You know, we sit
here and we'll have a drink together, but I've already

(44:37):
had a bunch. You just didn't know that because I'm
hiding it everywhere. I'm hiding it from everybody because I
didn't want anybody to know I was. But I found
myself in isolation all the time. I didn't want people around.
I was always an extrovert that loved having people around,
and then I just, I mean, I didn't want anybody around.
I was comfortable in like my office, I was comfortable

(44:59):
in my car. I was comfortable anywhere where nobody could
see me. And you know, just I could keep all
my little secrets to myself, and it just, you know,
luckily for me. As weird as this sounds, I was
having some bad health issues and I knew they were
all liver related, and they were, and I just kept
going back in for more and more and more, and

(45:20):
I was gaining weight. I got up over three hundred
pounds at one point, and I was just I didn't
I avoided a mirror for a year and a half.
I just I couldn't look in a mirror. I just
hated what I saw. And yeah, so not to get
a long winded on you there, but yeah, I just
I started to go on a really, really, really bad path,
and luckily I got myself on the right track, but

(45:44):
it was it was very dark for a very long time.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
And that's the honesty that I mentioned earlier, you know,
because I'll be honest with you. I you know, I
I'm twenty four years in h and a boy. Yeah,
and I got to be honest with you know what
my wife said to me one day, she goes, you know,
she goes, why do you shave in the showers?

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Because I don't like the guy in the mirror?

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
And so but you're you're obviously able to talk about it,
and you're obviously able to you know, deal with it.
So you struggle every so often or more often or
less often than.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
You tell me.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Uh, with the drinking, yep, not at all good. I
had to send myself to treatment. So I was in
the hospital again, and I I honestly, I thought I
was having a stroke. And I tried just quote unquote
sleeping it off or whatever. And my family was like, Nope,
You're go to hospital. You might be having a stroke,

(46:53):
and you know, I was just trying to avoid the
hospital any you know, because I was in there so
much at that point, and I knew what the issues were.
And finally, you know, that time was enough and everybody said, look,
enough's enough, You're going to treatment. And I kind of
fought it for a little while, and then I just said,
you know what, You're right. I can't fix this myself.

(47:15):
I've been trying to fix it, but I don't really
try that hard, and I always come up with a
reason why I need to have another drink or I mean,
we're alcoholics are the greatest excuse makers and live tellers
in the world.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Man.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Why the CIA doesn't line up outside of an AA
meeting because they could learn a lot from us. Yeah,
and so no, I went to treatment. I was in
the treatment facility for thirty seven days or thirty eight
days or something like that, and honestly, it was the
hardest thing I've ever done, and that you know. My

(47:51):
wife and kids drove me there and I sat in
the parking lot and I was hugging both of my kids,
balling my eyes out because I was just at of
a human being and I hated that my kids had
to see me like this, but I was. I was
at rock bottom, and I knew I had to be
incredibly vulnerable in front of them, and because I wasn't

(48:11):
going to see them for very long if I didn't,
and I was going down a very nasty path where
death was an option, and I honestly I did. I
wasn't trying to kill myself, but I didn't care if
I was dying. And that's the weirdest line to stay
out loud. But you just say, oh, well, you know,
if it's my time, it's my time, and I'm like, no,

(48:32):
it's but it's not. You're forty six, forty seven years old, Like,
it's not your time. It shouldn't be your time. You're
kind of forcing it to be your time. So yeah,
I went to the treatment for thirty eight days, and
I'll be honest, I was about three or four days
into it, and I just I knew that I was
never going to drink again. I needed to hear it
from other people. I needed to see at firsthand what
they went through and how similar it was to what

(48:53):
I went through. And I knew it wasn't the alcohol.
The alcohol just helped the underlying depression and identity issues
that I had because I just if I was drunk,
I didn't have to face it. I could just kind
of waste a wait to nothing. So no, to answer
your question, you know, knock on wood, because I know

(49:15):
every day is a new day. I haven't struggled with
the alcohol and missing it at all. I mean I will.
I'm closing in on one year May second. Ironically enough,
it was my birthday's February twenty first, and my son
walked in February twentieth. He saiks, you, Dad, your birthdays tomorrow?
Are you excited? And I was like, oh, yeah, it is.

(49:35):
I completely forgot right, just another day, I you know,
I had. This was my forty seventh and probably should
have met more than what it did. But it was like, oh, yeah,
I forget. My birthday is tomorrow. But I can tell
you exactly when May Second's coming. Right. As weird as
that sounds, I know, I've been waiting for May second
for months. And I never thought in a billion years

(49:57):
I could have gone a year without having a drink.
But I haven't had a drink since I haven't had
a desire to drink. And then there's certain times where
you'll miss it, like, oh, this would be a great
occasion to have a drink. And that's about the closest
I've gotten to it is because I know the you know,
before it was hey, how can I get healthy enough
to drink again? Now, that first drink scares the hell
out of me so badly because I know where it leads.

(50:21):
And as I posted, I posted something on one of
those social sites yesterday because I've had a lot of
people reach out to me about, you know, trying to
help them, and I said, look, you know, we all
have a choice to take that first drink. I don't
believe we have a choice on the second drink, because
once you have the first drink, you basically hand the
keys to the devil and he's driving the car now,

(50:44):
and you're gonna have a second, You're gonna have a sixth,
you're gonna have a tenth, then you're gonna wake up tomorrow.
We're like, you need another one because you feel like
trap and then we start this vicious cycle all over again.
But you do have a choice on that first drink.
And that's basically the way I look at it, is like,
as long as I'll never have a second drink. If
I don't have a first.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Times right, well, that one's too many and millions note enough.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
You got it, man, you got it. So I live
every day, just day by day, because I don't know
what to expect a month from now, a year from now,
because I never thought in the million years i'd be
in this situation. So how am I going to sit
here and try to predict the future. But all I
can do is stay sober today, and you know, we'll
worry about tomorrow when tomorrow gets here.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Awesome, buddy.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your time today.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
I really really can't.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
Oh, it's been my pleasure, you know, you uh, you know.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
So just remember, you know, from somebody who's actually has
more one days than you do. Just it's only three,
it's only one day at a time. It's three hundred
and sixty five, you know. And you know, people say
to me, how'd you make it twenty four years?

Speaker 2 (51:53):
I didn't. I made it three hundred.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
I made it three hundred and sixty five times twenty
four each of us, one time, one day at a time.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Steve, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
I will check in with you probably well personally, I'll
check in with you in May, but I will check
in with you at the end of the year and
make sure you're doing okay. And I cannot tell you
how much I appreciate your time today.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
I appreciate you Rich. And yeah, if anybody out there
is listening and they're struggling, they just want an ear
to Ben. Check out my new foundations, the Mulligan Foundation.
We're designing and on mental health and substance abuse and
everything else. We're just trying to help anybody we can help.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
So yeah, I do anything for anybody, and that'll that'll
actually be on you know, I'll make sure that I
get that out on social media too. You know, I
kind of didn't touch on that enough. So but again, Steve,
thanks a lot. I appreciate it, and uh, I'll talk
to you soon.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
My pleasure. Thanks for having me on. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
This is the Rich gum One Golf Show.