The Rich Conwell Show - July 12, 2025

J.R. Pond joins Rich to discuss all that goes into developing the leaders of tomorrow in the golf industry.   

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Rich Komwell Golf Show. This week, our
guest is JR. Pond. Jr. Is an instrumental I'm going
to say the word force, but a very very very important,
integral part of the professional golf management program and is
what most people. Well, actually now it's Pennwest University, but

(00:21):
I grew up in western Pennsylvania knowing it as California
University of Pennsylvania. And so we are going to go
over Jr's golf story and we're going to lean heavily
on what is going on at Pennwest University and all
the state universities. A little bit later, but first off, Jr.
Thanks for joining us this week.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Rich, thanks for having me really excited to be here.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
That's cool. So so as I do with everybody, go
ahead and give me a give me a rundown on
how you got started in golf.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I started pretty early. I wish that I was better
at golf, especially with how early I started. But my dad,
I grew up in a military family.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
My dad's a Naval Academy graduate, and when he made
the transition from being you know, full time military active
duty into the reserves, he started working for Corning Gold
and like most people in kind of the early eighties
mid eighties, when you worked in business, golf became one
of those things that you just inherently picked up for

(01:27):
the purpose of using it for business. And I was
about five years old. We were living in Buchanan, West Virginia.
Corning had a little plant down there at Coreheart and Buchanan,
West Virginia, just outside Buchanan. And he came home one
day and I'm in the backyard swinging his putter full
swings because it was the shortest club in the bag
and the only thing I could really swing around my body.

(01:49):
So that kind of got everything started. I think for
my sixth birthday, he got that same set of McGregor's
starter's cut down.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Back then, we didn't have the junior set that we
have today.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
So he got him cut down and started taking me
with taking me with.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Him to the golf course. And then as I got
a little.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Bit older, really started to get into about ten years old,
as like summer of nineteen ninety, summer of ninety one,
summer of ninety two, we joined a little twenty seven
hole public golf course or pass holders called Willow Creek
golf course.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Outside of Corner, New York. It's about three miles from
our house.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
And we start off our day. We'd get up, we'd
go play nine holes together, with the dew still on
the grass. By then the clubhouse was open.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
I could throw my clubs in the locker.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
We would go home, he'd get ready for work. I'd
eat breakfast, jump on my bike right at the three
miles back to the golf course, and play golf all day.
And then sometimes was lucky enough to have an emergency
nine with my dad after work. So I was playing
anywhere between, you know, sometimes thirty six, forty five and
fifty four holes.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
A day on some days. And I just fell in
love with him, and it just became hate to think of
yourself as being, you know, a thing. But I mean,
that's when I became a golfer.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
That's neat, that's neat. You know. It's funny because everybody, everybody.
I asked that question of everybody, and invariably it comes
down to usually dad. I know, I know that my
mom never played. My dad was not very good. But

(03:22):
you know I was talking. I asked, you know, Chris Chedder,
who won on the LPGA tour. I asked every every guy,
and it's always dad did this, Dad did Dad? Did
this with this? And that, you know the interesting one,
And is that the only not the only one, but
the main guest I had that that said his mother
was instrumental was actually Bob Ford, which is really interesting

(03:43):
to me because I figured he'd fall right into that
hole like you did. And I did the dad thing
and he was like, yeah, my mom was actually really
really the golfer in the family. So it was kind
of interesting. So all right, so you grew up in
in Corning, right, I mean so, but did you play
junior golf? See this is also before we had all

(04:04):
the junior tours, right, I mean yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
It was just starting.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
There were a couple of junior tournaments. The pro at
at Willow Creek did have kind of junior camps or
junior clinics. So I did start to see the beginning
of that evolution of golf where we started to see
that push for junior golf to grow the game. You know,
before we were really calling it that grow the game initiative.

(04:29):
But I was at the very beginning of that. They're
the real early nineties. It wasn't nearly what it is today,
I mean, And then I moved to Western Pennsylvania in
December of ninety three. And where I was in New York,
and we did not have things like the King's Tournaments
that are now the Isley Junior Golf Tour with the

(04:51):
Tri State PGA, right, like, it didn't really exist like
that in New York where I was, we didn't have
that type of competitive junior golf yet, right, So it
was kind of a shock when I got to Western
Pennsylvania and met other kids that you know, for me,
I was all about golf, and then I realized that

(05:13):
there were a lot of people that were better than me.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, that kind of functioned the same way I did. Right.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
It's interesting because you know that that's the you know,
you can go one of two ways there. You can
you can try to get better or you just kind
of take take your beat down and go do something else.
And it's so okay. So you get you get back
to Western Pennsylvan not back to but you get to
Western Pennsylvania. Right, So, now where'd you go to high school?
I should pbly know that, but I don't know that.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
I graduated from bal Vernon but again. I moved in
I was kind of middle of eighth grade. It was
December of ninety three when we moved to Western Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Kind of looking at that as far as my dad's
time in the military. I was nine before I lived
in one place more than.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Two years, so getting kind of uprooted and the reset
button became kind of par for the course, if you will,
and so it was a kind of a cool fresh start.
I felt bad for my sister she moved. She's three
years older than me, so she was moving in.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
The middle of high school.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, not ideal, but.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
Graduating from Balvernon in ninety eight. And then from there,
I went to West Virginia Wesland for my first year
of college because my sister was already there, and that
was just.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Kind of we were really close because we moved around
so much. She was like one of those constants.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
She was one of my best friends, because every time
you moved kind of had to restart and had to
make all new friends, and who were close enough in
age that were pretty close.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
So I went to Wesland and.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Thought that maybe I was good enough to walk on
the team, and found out really quick that I was
not so it just kind of started a little bit
of a pause in my time.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Playing golf. I ended up.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Working some small clubs and stuff around western Pennsylvania. I
was working at Springdale Golf Club in Uniontown for a season.
When I was in high school and playing high school golf,
I worked at Bill's Golfland.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, ross drivers, Yeah. So it was.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Setting the foundation that me working in golf was likely,
but it took me a while before I finally got there.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Right, So you leave Wesley and then where do you go?

Speaker 3 (07:32):
So I went from Bill's Golfland to Springdale Golf Club
in Uniontown and then that took me through until I
was about twenty.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
And then when I got.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Laid off for the winter time, I ended up going
to work for the ARC Westmoreland, working with individuals and
developmental disabilities specifically and duly diagnosed behavior homes. And I
spent about five years doing this. So I kind of
stepped away from golf. And it wasn't a off, wasn't
still important to me.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
It's just I got laid.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Off for the wintertime and you got a job that
was paying me more money than I had ever gotten
paid before, and I was trying to figure things out.
I finished my associates degree in college, but I had
not finished my bachelor's yet. I kind of took a
break when I finished my associates.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Because I didn't know what I wanted to do.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
Right from my first year of school, I went to Wesland.
I remember coming home and look at my mom and
dad and going, can I just stay home and go
back to work at bills and you go to the
community college and try and figure this out?

Speaker 2 (08:38):
And they said sure.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
So I came back and I finished my associates And
when I finished my associates, I'm like, well, I don't
really know what I want to do, but I'm making
more money than I've ever made.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Before working at the ARC.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
I did that there in Greensburg, ended up moving down
to Tampa, Florida. The ARC has facilities all over the place,
so doing residential home care in group homes with individuals
with developmental disability still and spent about two and a
half years down in Florida doing it, which took me
to about five years of working in that industry before

(09:15):
I started to burn out. Yea, you know, there's got
to be a better way, a different way of doing this,
And I called back up to my parents and said, hey,
you know, if I wanted to go back to school,
I think I'm ready. Can I come back home? And
they said sure, and I ended up moving back up
from Tampa. They were living in Periopolis at the time,

(09:36):
southern tip of Periopolis there in Star Junction on your
way down to Uniontown on fifty one. And the program
at California University had just started up at the PGM program,
So I went and talked to Jim hefti was there
at the time as the program director, and Justin Barner
was there who's now the chair of the department, and

(09:58):
I met with both of them and ended up enrolling
in classes and taking all the PGM classes that were
available to take before transferring out of PGM. Because I
had taken all the PGM classes and I needed a
social science, they needed two social sciences to graduate. So
I took an Abnormal psych four hundred level course as

(10:19):
an elective, and a Homeland Security course and seven Habits
for Highly Effective People Law Enforcement, and those were the
three classes I needed to finish.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
A bastlor in arts.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
There you go, there you go. I'll tell it's what
was funny. You mentioned you mentioned Jim Hefti. I had
not forgotten that name, but that I had not heard
that name in a long time because he was the
first director of the program at it was cal U
then Pennwest now correct, that.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Is correct, yeap.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Justin was hired to help build a program, being a
graduate from Penn State's PGM program. Right. It was one
of those things where they said, what did you love
about Penn State? He goes, here's everything I learn about
Penn State, and it's basically everything is what did you
not like about it? He goes, I wish I could
have tried out for the golf team, because I probably.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Wouldn't have made it, but I would have liked to
have tried.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
And started the PGM program and started the golf team
back got the Division two golf team. But yeah, at
that inception in two thousand and four, the two of
them came in and started to construct the program. Jim
had a background he had helped start the program at
Sony Dell.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
High also, right, so he came in.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
With some experience getting a program off the ground. And
then Justin came in with his experience from Penn State
and sought to bring all the great things that Penn
State does to a state school that serves a little
different community.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Right, Well, keep in mind, we are never going to
tell Justin bern or anything good about Penn State, just
so you know that. You know, he's We're just not
going to We're not going to do that. We're not
going to do that. We're not going to do that.
So all right, so all right, so that's actually very
I did not know that about you. I got to
tell you something. You know, you mentioned that the the

(12:06):
developmental disabilities, uh tenure of your you know, your five
years kind of there. And it's funny because my my
and you mentioned you got a little bit burned out.
My my daughter is a speech pathologist and she actually
is now living in Austria with her husband, her new husband,
for another year or so. But she only worked with

(12:27):
nonverbal kids, and I used to nonverbal adults too, And
I used to say to her, I said, how do
you do that? And she's like, well, she goes, I
absolutely absolutely love those kids, you know, and I and
I worry that that that you know, like you were
speaking of the high intensity I guess I would say
of that environment, and she's like, no, she goes, you

(12:48):
know what, they teach me more than than I'll ever
teach them. And I think you got it. I think
I don't know what your take on that is, but
I got to tell you, I truly think that's the
That's probably the best way to look at that, because
if you don't it's almost a different way of saying,
if you don't laugh, you're gonna cry. And and so

(13:10):
it's just it's interesting because I did not know that
about you, and it kind of just spawned those those
thoughts on me about my daughter and that kind of environment.
So all right, so you graduate college, right, and now
you have this, you have this degree, and so your
first move obviously is the term professional correct.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yes, yes, so really cool.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
I mean PGM programs in general are such a different
animal than other degrees because of the amount of hands
on the internship component. So before I was ever done
as a student with my time at you know, CALU
at the time Penwest University, now, I was already working at.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Got an internship which.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Ended up being a third assistant job at value of
a country club outside of Pittsburgh, and started doing that
before I was ever done.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
So I was I.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Was working in the industry when I was finishing my degree,
which is something that was really important for where I
was in my you know where I was in my life, right.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
I was twenty five.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
When I went back to school. I'm not sure if
when I first started back to the school, I don't
think Jamie and I.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Were engaged yet, but we were real close to being engaged,
and we were starting to, you know, we're on that
pathway while it was still a student.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
I mean we got engaged, we got married, we bought
a house, like I needed to get to the next
chapter of life. And PGM allows that, Like, depending on
where you are, it.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Can meet you.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
We see some students that have got military background and
stuff because they're at a different phase in their life
and they need to they want to get their degree,
utilize their GI bill, but they we also need that
flexibility they can get out in the field and start
making a living and supporting their family. And that's where
you are and PGM really allows that.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
And that's where I was too.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
I'm in twenty five going back to school, Like I've
been out in the field working, I've been making money,
Like I'm paying this out of pocket. I've got to
find a way to make a living while.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
I'm doing this, and PGM allowed for that.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, that's really that's really interesting because you know, and
the funny thing is is because I, you know, when I,
I did not go to the PGM route. So I
was twenty I was twenty four, and I was the
first assistant at Williams for a country club and Williams
for a Pennsylvanian. And I remember that on Friday nights
we used to go to rival sports bar, my wife

(15:43):
and I and we got a rival sports bar and
we got an appetizer in two drinks, and we thought
we were like millionaires and like if I could, if
I could snap my fingers and make it all happening,
because that's obviously very different now. I mean, I've got
daughter here and the son there and just like you do.
But it's just like how cool and simple was that
that we could say, Okay, yeah, we're gonna do this

(16:04):
and it wasn't really it wasn't that big of a deal.
It was just like this what we did, it was
like awesome, like like like a big trip was to
go to the amusement park for a day. I mean
that was pretty cool. I mean that was that was
pretty cool. All right, So we're gonna go to commercial break,
and when we come back, we're gonna talk about, you know,
obviously now you're you're out of school, we're gonna talk
about your professional track, and then we're gonna start to

(16:25):
get into exactly the really cool things that we're doing
at Pennwest University. This is the Rich Como Golf Show.
Welcome back to the Rich Combo Gulf Show. We are
joined this week by JR. Pond. Jr is has just
kind of in his career path or his life path actually,

(16:46):
has just finished at what was then California University of
Pennsylvania with a professional golf management degree and he is
now So you are at Valley Brook correct?

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Correct?

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Okay, So then, so who did you work for at
Value Brook?

Speaker 3 (17:03):
When I started at Valley Brook, I was working under
Bob Meyer and Mike Papson.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Mike Papson is still there as a head professional.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
I consider him a great mentor and friend.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
It's one of those guys.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
Any time I call him, he'll pick up the phone
and answer questions for me and keep me on the
straight and narrow.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
So, yeah, that was the evolution. So I started at
Valley Brook, I got.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Hired in December of two thousand and six while I
was a student in the PGM program as a third assistant.
In year two, I moved up to a second assistant,
and then I think it was about year three is
when Bob trans kind of transitioned into that director of
golf hole and Mike Papson took over as the head
golf professional. And then over those next couple of years,

(17:51):
I finished my PGA work, became a PGA member and
really started to get my feet wet as far as
really an tournament ops. That was kind of my niche,
especially in that operation, was running events with member events
and outside outings over the six years I was there,

(18:12):
and then the first couple of years at Loan Pine,
I hit the thousand mark as far as number of
events that I ran, which it's hard to fathom when
you start thinking about all the ladies events, men's events,
club events, outside outings. He started going, wait a second,
I've done.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
This how many times?

Speaker 3 (18:29):
But that was that early kind of beginning to my
career as a golf professional.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
That was kind of my forte was running events and
making those those days.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Really special, whether it was a fundraiser for a nonprofit.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Or if it was a day of really treating clients
and things like that, to a day at the golf course.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
So yeah, and and you know, it's funny because as
you say that, a thousand is a lot, but it's
interesting that and obviously nobody would know this because they
wouldn't because they've never done it. But there's a lot
of work that goes into setting up and conducting let's

(19:12):
just say, as you said, the fundraiser, right, so we're
raising money for the fire hall or whatever. Right, So
I mean there's so much work that goes into that
and and and the whole goal when you do it well,
and I know you did do it well, is that
that nobody ever sees you do the work, and nobody
ever sees anybody do the work. It just kind of
seems to happen. And it's just it's like, okay, Wow,

(19:35):
the golf carts are here, and there's my name on
a golf cart, and I'm starting on this whole. And
here's the rules sheet, and here's the here's my scorecard,
and here's the tea I'm playing, and here's the timeline.
You know, we're going to tee off at one, we're
gonna eat, We're gonna have cocktail our at five o'clock,
be done at six o'clock. It's all written right here
for me. And and it's absolutely fascinating to me that

(19:59):
how how you can make some pretty cool events and
early on as as you were is we got to
use the infancy the tournament pairing programs that actually turned
out those and they kind of made us look really good.
I mean we looked we were pretty good, but they
made us look really good because everybody's name was, you know,
on a scorecard. Everbody's name was on and we didn't

(20:21):
have to write them because I can't write. I can't
I came, I came in print. I can't print my
own name. So like that whole thing was like tremendously awesome.
So all right, so you you worked for for obviously
Bob and that then Mike, and then you go to
then then where.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
So.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
And it was a day before Thanksgiving November twenty twelve,
I had my second interview with Terry George and at
the time Randy Lee Big, who was the general manager
at Lone Pine Country Club. I had my second interview
with them and got offered.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
The position.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
And spent the next almost five full seasons, so all
of twenty thirteen through August of twenty seventeen.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
I've got to be the head of operations.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
For the head golf professional at Loand Country Clude in Washington, PA.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, and I'll tell you what you mentioned. You mentioned
the legend that is Terry George because he was and
he still is, but he was, I mean he was
at Lone Pine for a little under six hundred years,
eight years, yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Thirty eight thirty eight years. Yeah, he was at the Helm.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, it's it's great. And the funny the funny thing
is is funny thing is I've spoken to him a
couple of different times just about various things. And and
his one of his best friends in the section when
he first started was actually Bob Ford's predecessor, which who

(21:53):
was Lou Warshap. And he said Lou would come out
because Lou won the nineteen forty seven US Open and
and and Lou would come out and get in a
little rowboat and you'd go fishing on one of the
ponds at at Terry's place and at Loan Pine and
like he's like and people go play golf and they
knew who he was, but they were like, you know,
if they only realized, like that guy won the US Open,

(22:16):
that guy on Open, that guy. But it's like, yeah,
so that's what he lost. So all right, So you
go five years at long Pine and so what's next?
I mean, because at some point, and I know you're
obviously we're going to transition your career and all that

(22:37):
fun stuff, But at some point, you know, when did
you realize that you were not going to stay at
Loan Pine four thirty eight years? Like Terry?

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Honestly, I.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
When I was a student in the PGM program at
Penn West at that point in time, it was Calu,
but the first stay of class justin went around and
asked everybody in the class.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
As a PGM one hundred class, it was the intro class,
and he went around the room and asked everybody, what's
your dream job in the golf industry? And at that
point in time.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
I think that all of us, I mean, naive as
it may be, was head golf professional. Like in your mind,
that's the pinnacle.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Right, Like that's if you're.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
Going to be what's the highest position you can hold
in the golf industry? If you're going to work in
those traditional roles head golf professional, we weren't thinking about
all these different things, director of instruction, director of golf
general managers, like, we weren't thinking about working for OEMs.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Like those things didn't like, it didn't.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Seem like those were golf careers, what golf professionals do.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
And we went around the room and of course ninety
five percent.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Of the room head golf professional, hagh golf professional, high
golf professional. And he gets to me, I'm one of
the last people to answer in the class, and I go, well,
I was going to say, had golf professional, but what
you're doing looks pretty cool. It's like, it's like in
my mind it was already kind of going like I
didn't know that that was an option, right, right, And

(24:12):
so I went to work at Valley Brook and then
got the job at Loan Pine and all of those things.
It helped solidify the opportunity that there was a faculty
member in the program, you know, or Vanessa McKinnon, doctor
Vanessa McKinnon. She decided that she wanted to travel a
little bit more and ended up leaving the university, and

(24:35):
it opened up this faculty position.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Justin gave me a call and said.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Hey, I know that we've talked about this before.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Is it something that you're interested in.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
I think you should throw your name and the candidate
pool and see.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Where it goes.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
So I put it in my resume, went and got
all my clearances, my background checks, FBI checks, and went
through the the hiring process, which is much like getting
hired at a club. It was like being in front
of a hiring committee where you had to do some
presentations and everything, but ultimately ended up being offered a

(25:11):
position and had to make the decision. It's like, this
is going to create some some different opportunities for me
moving forward.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
What do I want to do?

Speaker 3 (25:24):
And after discussions with Jamie and my wife, then you know,
made the decision that yeah, this is this is going
to be a good move for me to continue to
grow and learn and able to do some pretty cool
things in my career.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
That's neat.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
That's neat.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
So it's it's interesting because you mentioned just a second ago,
your your FBI clearances and your and your and obviously
there's just child abuse clearance and all that fun stuff
right well, see referee basketball, and we have to do
it every three years, and it's amazing to me. And
obviously I have nothing on my record, nothing, you know,
I mean like nothing, but when and you know this,

(26:02):
when you put in for the Pennsylvania State Police at
patri report, it spent the the clock spins while while
it's running through the system, because it just pits out
right away. And like, I don't know about you, but
I sit there and go, okay, now what they find
because I know there's nothing to find, but it seems
like it takes forever for that to come up as
no record. And then I just print it and I'm done.

(26:23):
But it's hilarious that you said that because I was
just like a flashback to me. I'm like, I got
every time I do that. You know, I know there's
nothing there. I know there's nothing there, but it's like
you see, it's like you're driving down the highway at
sixty five miles an iron and you see the copy.
You slow down. You just slow down. It's what you do.
You know. It's funny. So all right, so you go
back to and now it is it is CALU at

(26:45):
that point, California University of pennsylvani.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
Yeah, it was still call you when I first started
back there, so that would have been, like I said,
August of twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
So what was and it's still I'm sure it's still
there because Justin's still there as well. But what's the
goal that you walk into? Like the mission statement on
the wall, like what.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Do you guys want to do? It's multifaceted, like there's
it's not just.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
One vision or just one mission. But the primary goal.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Is to to really train the future leaders of the
golf industry.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
I mean, that's the goal, not just produce golf professionals.
We want to produce the leaders of the golf industry.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
And that really was what we were looking to do.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
So when I first stepped in, I was taking over
in doctor mckennon's instead and working as the internship coordinators,
so really starting to create some of those relationships with facilities.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
And it wasn't very hard.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
I was walking into a program that at that point
in time already had you know, an over a decade
under it smelt. So I'm walking into students almost being
able to select where they go, not quite to that point.
It wasn't you know, just because you decided to apply someplace.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
That you're going to get hired. But compared to when
I was a student in the program, Like I remember.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Somebody applying for Pittsburgh Field Club and when they got
Pittsburgh field Club, Like what a big deal that was
because so many of us every time we went to
someplace new. You were the first intern from the program
to go there, So you had the opportunity to really
pave the way, Like you got to set the standard

(28:45):
to whether or not that facility was going to hire
another intern from from the program.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Right right, you paved You paved the way, or you
actually booked them cement and made it rocky one of
the other.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Like you you going in there and doing a good
job could be the difference between another student having an
opportunity or not.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Right right, you got to set the tone. You were it.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
So when I when I came in, a lot of
those relationships were already you know, created that helped open
up even more doors because those.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Networks continue to expand.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
So for me, it was it was about now not
just producing golf professionals that are going in there, Like
we want kids that can hit the ground running when
they get there. They're going to be able to provide
a benefit to that operation and learn something.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
While they're there, and that became a real big focus.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, I can believe that. Yeah, because because obviously up
until at that point, especially especially when you started there.
I mean obviously, you know, Vanessa had done a great job,
and Justin's always done a great job, and Jim did
a really good job to you know, and handle it
off to Justin. But the fact of the matter is,
there were still, you know, or at least at least

(30:12):
three or four programs that were older than yours, and
they were a little bit more established than you. If not,
like in the case of faris a lot more established
than you. They're a lot more establish than any of them.
But but yeah, so I would think that you had
to you had to set your sights a little higher
than than We just don't want to turn out golf professional.
We want to turn out gold professional leaders or leadership

(30:33):
golf professionals, or however that fancy term works out, like,
we don't want, we don't want and I would never
say anybody's run of the mill, but we don't want.
We won't want above average, we want way above average.
We want we want the rock stars. We want to
turn out rock stars.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Right, That's that was that's the goal.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah. So so, And I'll be honest, you know, it's
it's interesting because because to my life line of thinking
and maybe and I spoke with I had Joe Hatch
from a fair State on the other day, and to
my line of thinking, it's almost where you and everybody

(31:15):
on the faculty there and any potential intern placement facility
has to want the kids to be better than they
actually want to be or they know they can be.
You know what I mean, Like like if you take
a twenty nineteen year old kid now and you go, okay,
get him an internship, and you want him to be

(31:36):
you want him to be happy and all that fun stuff,
but you know it's your job. I would think to
open his eyes to how good he could be.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Absolutely, it's I was.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
I was fortunate to be on on gbn's podcast recently
with retired Colonel Spencer clu Lott.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, And I mean we talked a lot about that
as far as leaders are.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Grown, they're not born, and how do you teach these
kids to be leaders? And how do you instill in
them those leadership qualities and traits that are trainable it's
a teachable skill.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
And you can't teach it to everybody.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
I mean not everybody is cut out the designed to
be the general manager or you know, the head golf
professional or the director of golf. You identify the strengths
the weaknesses and help in that process.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Like I say, we hold their hands.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Through the process for internship. We don't place anybody. They
have to go apply and get hired. We help them
find the places that are going to open the doors
to the things that they want to do. So, if
you have somebody that really wants to be in merchandising, okay,
here are all of these facilities that we worked with
in the past that have you know, National merchandise or

(33:02):
the Year or Section merchandise or the year awards. You know,
what type of facility want to work in? Do you
want to be private, do you want to be public?
Do you want to be resort? And work through that
process with them. If they start to ask the right
questions and they don't just go I want to go
work here because it's the prettiest golf course I've ever played,
It's no, It's like, you have an interest in teaching,

(33:24):
why don't we look for people that have won Player
Development Awards and have one teacher the Year awards. That
way you can spend time shadowing them, like, if that's
something that you're interested in, we want you to be
in their shoes a little bit and see what that's like.
And sometimes you find out real fast, this isn't what
I thought it was. Then you'll learn from that experience

(33:44):
as much as you will from the experiences that.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Are that are awesome. But sometimes those those bad experiences.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
And statistically you're going to have one or two internships
where you didn't like who you worked for, you didn't
like the membership, you.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Didn't like the job, or some aspect.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Statistically, when you're doing five internships, you're going to have
at least one that didn't necessarily, you know, turn out
to be everything that you expected.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
It to be.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Right, Okay, So when we come back from this commercial break,
we're going to talk about you know, Pennwest and you
and the internships and how we get these kids to
be the and they are kids, isn't that crazy? They're kids,
their kids, How we get them to be or how
you get them to be everything and a little bit

(34:31):
more than they think they can be. This is the
Rich Combo Golf Show. Welcome back to the Rich Combo
Golf Show. We are joined this week by JR pond Or.
With JR Pond and JR Is, we are talking about
the professional golf Management program at Pennwest University, which is
formerly California University of Pennsylvania. So, JR, I'm gonna ask

(34:53):
you a very briefly because I want to talk about
some really cool stuff. But the transition from California University
Pennsylvania to Penn West obviously still going on. Obviously still
rebranding and all that fun stuff. But are you starting
to come out on the other side of it now
or you still have some stumbling blocks going on.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
No, I think we're really starting to come out the
other side of it now. And you know, the marketing
machine was a little bit slower than I think you
would hope. The transition was on a pretty tight timeline
and educating everyone on the fact that we are still.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
California University of Pennsylvania. It's just now we're even bigger.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Now it's got this umbrella over it and we share
some really cool pieces with Clarion and Edinburgh and the
three of us all have our own identities, but still
have some of these pieces that we share. That just
makes each one of those campuses a little bit stronger,
opening up some more opportunities for students as far as

(35:56):
classes they can take for electives, especially if in this
day and age with online education, it really opens up
the opportunity to see and do some things that we
weren't able to do.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
In the past.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah. So, oh, that's good to hear, because I do
know that. And obviously I I talked to you occasionally,
I talked to justin occasionally. I know it was I
know it was a struggle to begin with, you know,
because obviously it's you know, it's not as simple as
just changing your name, because there's a reason why you
change your name. You know, There's a lot that goes
into that. There's a lot of ins and outs and

(36:31):
ups and downs and so all right, so now let's
so let's get into first of all, I don't think
I want to give you a second and just kind
of patch yourself and your program on it and everybody's
everybody's collective back. You sent some kids to some pretty
cool places for internships.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Right.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Said.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
We were able to touch on this before the commercial
break and talk about the uh the end internship.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Process and the fact that we don't place kids.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
They get to find the places that they're interested to go.
And what we've found over the years is we get
some students that are really adventurous. So we've had students
go across the country. We've had students go to the
northern coast of Ireland. The furthest away we've ever had
somebody go is the Kingdom of Bhutan, which is outside Nepall,

(37:25):
which I think.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Physically is as.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Far away from California and Pennsylvania as you can possibly get.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Right, there's no further place than that, right, and you
technically can't get there here. You can't get there.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
From a geographic standpoint, that is as far away from
campus as you can possibly did. But we like to
hold students' hands to the process and they find places
that are going to allow them to continue to grow
as professionals, but also allow them to be able to
step into those operations and be a positive opponent of

(38:00):
those operations the day they walk in. So that's the
main goal is it's finding places where the skill sets
that they already have are going to be able to
be utilized so that way, they're a positive benefit to
that operation, and while they're there they get to continue
to grow their professional network and their skill sets.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, that's and the other thing is is and obviously,
you know, not everybody's going to go to you know,
just outside of the poll, you know, but they are
right or you know, or or California or whatever. But
even if they go to Cleveland or they go to Omaha,
they have to and what you mentioned this before, they

(38:41):
are kids, so they have to kind of it's another
layer of grow up, if that makes sense. And that's
also part of real world stuff is that hey, look,
you know what, Yeah, you're going there for you know,
some of your internships are longer, somewhere shorter, but you're
going to go there, and there is a level of
grow up because this is a professional internship. Like you

(39:04):
are a professional. You're not you're not the kid. You're
not the cool kid from who's the vice president of
of your sophomore class that that's taking tickets to Kennywood.
This is a this is a this is a professional
developmental internship.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
And we typically see those students start off. It's not
uncommon to see the first one or two internships a
little bit closer to home, maybe.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
They're staying with friends or family. Uh.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
And then it's usually that second third internship they start
to spread their wings a little bit more, and then
it's that final internship. Because the program's designed whether you
go some of the cool things about it we'll jump into,
but the program's really designed for the student to be
completely done on campus in three years, and then the
summer between their third year of study and their their senior.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Their final year of study. Uh.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
And then that entire final year of study is out
on internship, so they're out in the world already working
in their profession before they've graduated from the program. So
it's designed that way on purpose for them to go
and really spread their wings and it becomes kind of scaled.

(40:17):
They're not getting thrown into the deep end right off
the get go. It's that professional development through each one
of these internship experiences. Plus they're writing resumes, they're actually
going on interviews, so not only do they have the
skill set, they've learned how to sit down and articulate
their skill sets. So when they are going for those
head pro.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Positions or those assistant positions after graduation, this isn't new
to them. It's a skill that they've developed, they've practiced,
they've honed before they're getting into that point in their career. Right.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
So, like, if you use the chronological analysis, most kids
are looking for their first job at twenty two. Your
kids already have their job at twenty one, and they're
gliding gliding. They are traversing that senior year as a
working professional and expanding.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Their professional networks and their skill sets, so that way,
they're opening their by that point in time, they've learned
to open their own doors.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Like that's the goal.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
That's the other goal is to you know, to wade
them into it and hold their hand and then then
get to the point that when they're doing that last
you know, internship, they're really stepping into their first job
as a professional, and they've learned how to to walk

(41:38):
through these doors and knock on these doors themselves.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
So so obviously, as you said, you're going to have
some that fall short of others, right, I mean some
some you know my you know, I have intern one,
two and three, right, and so so one of them
is going to fall short of what I had hoped,
you know, it would be. But I guess at that point,

(42:04):
you know, what do you know how depending on what happens,
like how fast do you find out that that Timmy
and there's nobody we know Timmy right or not talk
we're talking about hypothetical young man or a young lady here,
but you know Timmy or Jenny. I mean, how do
you and this is really interesting to me, how do
you get them to quote unquote recover the best from

(42:25):
each situation, even if it's not ideal or what they
thought it would be.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
There's a lot of reflection process in it where when
they come back, I mean, they're updating their resumes, they're
updating their cover letters.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
We have basically I don't.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Even call it a survey, but there's some documentation that
they fell out to really dive into how that experience
was for them, which gets utilized in helping in the
future because sometimes the facility is a fantastic facility.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
It just wasn't the right candidate for that.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Their personality wasn't quite the right fit. But it's you know,
the more we get to work with some of these facilities,
the better we understand that, and the the more we
can assist in the process of making sure that the
you know, the goals of a student are aligning with
the operation that they're hoping to go work in, and

(43:23):
sometimes we do have to kind of steer them back
a little bit sometimes because somebody has, you know, that
golden star in their mind. They're like, I want to
go work at Oakmont's. Like that's fantastic, because like you're
in your first internship.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
We're not going there yet, but that's really what you
want to do. Here's some places that are going to
help prepare you if this is something you really think
that you want to do.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, it's you know, I would think I would think
it's kind of a balancing act of of you know,
skill set reality and not pipe dream but pie and
sky kind of thing, like like, hey, listen, you want
to you want to go work at you know, uh,
you know Riviera in California. That's awesome, It's unbelievable. You know,

(44:07):
you want to work at you know, wherever. But you've
got to build blocks to get there because you're just
not going to walk in there as you know, as
that as an eighteen year old kid, or a nineteen
year old kid, or twenty maybe even a twenty year
old kid, a twenty one year old kid, you know,
because because like we said before, they're all kids, and

(44:28):
it's it's it's it's interesting. Have you I'm quite sure
that every professional that you have, who who they're they're
they they hire you know, one of your only of
your interns. I'm quite sure they're invaluable as far as
feedback is concerned. Correct, not about the individual necessarily, because

(44:53):
obviously sometimes the individual, but of actually the scope of
their facility or where they could get maybe they could
to be somebody who would be the best fit for
them going down the road.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
Absolutely, we definitely look to have that information. Some facilities,
different facilities go about it differently. Some facilities send us
entire pdf you know, breakdowns of you know, the different
internships that are available, depending on whether it's a first
year internship or a senior internship. So really looking at

(45:27):
the job duties and the responsibilities, and you know what
the housing looks like. Is it provided, is it subsidized
or you know, do they a lot of facilities I
think think that they have to provide it now to
be competitive to get interns, And the truth is it
doesn't as long as it's safe, it's relatively close and
it's affordable, right then, like like that works, but sometimes

(45:53):
it's a phone call. Sometimes, like I said, they're sending
over these entire like PDF brochures of what's available or
what they're looking for, which really goes a long way,
and first of all, putting it in front of the
student so the students can say, hey, I think this
is something that I want to experience, and then we
can use that to.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Help navigate whether they're they've got the skill set that's
going to allow them to be.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Successful there, because it doesn't do them any good to
go in there and not be ready for it. Like
it's one thing to be outside your comfort zone to grow.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
That had to happen.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
But you also can't throw somebody into the deep end
that doesn't have the skill set yet, because facilities are
in the thick of their season, like they're not in
a position that they can hit pause to hold somebody's
hands through all of it. They need somebody that can
come in and do certain aspects of the job today.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
And right you should right become That's that's the National
Hockey leg mentality. Like okay, so so they just draft Penguins,
just drafted all those kids right, they can't throw them
on a National Hockey League ice. You can't because because
they're just not ready. Now now they can throw them
on the ice at certain situations, and that I would
think is kind of like part of the magic of

(47:03):
what you guys, not you guys are doing for these kids,
but these kids, and you have to kind of put
your brain melt together and go, Okay, you know what.
I can see myself doing A, B and C at
that facility, but they're looking at D, E and F
and I don't have that, so that one's not going
to work for me. But the one over there has D,
E and F, and I can really see myself doing that.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
Yeah, it's finding the skill sets they already have and
helping to align them with facilities that are going to
allow them to utilize the skills that they already have
while still providing opportunities for them to grow. So what
new things are you going to be able to learn
when you're out on this internship?

Speaker 1 (47:44):
What I and then I do have to ask, obviously,
because we only have a minute left, I do have
to ask, are you still seeing some of the I
guess hangover from COVID? I mean is it. Are we
kind of in your world, kind of free and clear
of that.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
We're definitely still seeing a little bit of it, just
because education tends to be a little bit slower to
catch the wave. So we have seen some of that uptick.
So where we saw the boom in golf with COVID,
now we're starting to see some of those students that
started playing golf during COVID that fell in love with

(48:21):
the game.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
They've decided, you know what, this is something that could
be a career for me, and I'm going to pursue
this for education.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
That's neat all? Right, Well, jay Or, I told you
it would not be painful, and I don't think it was.
But I I do want to thank you for your time,
and as I say to everybody, if there's anything I
can from this little chair and my other job and
all that stuff, if there's anything I can ever do
for you guys, you guys, just.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
Go to let me know.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
You know, I'll come back whatever I can.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
I look forward to seeing. I'll actually come visit you
for the you ben An Isleys event coming up.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yep, I do next week.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Ye, So I will. I'm coming to visit you.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
That's awesome. That's awesome. Okay, this has been JR. Pond
and this is the rich Come we'll go show