July 24, 2025 • 48 mins
Ted Bishop, the former president of the PGA of America, joins Rich to talk about his path to the presidency, his involvment in the Ryder Cup, and more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Rich Comal Golf Show. I'm going to
jump right into this one this week. This week I'm
joined by Ted Bishop, former president of the PJ of America,
and we're going to talk about all sorts of things
in the world of golf and the PG of America
and Ryder Cup and all sorts of fun things like that.
But first off, Ted, thanks for joining me.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh my pleasure. Rich thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
You bet you so.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
As I start with everybody, tell me how how you
started to fall I know you fell in love with
golf a long time ago, but tell me how that
all started.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, you know, my story is kind of interesting. My
dad did not play golf, so I really wasn't exposed
to it as a kid. And I played basketball, baseball
and tennis as a fall sport, which you had to
do in Indiana if you were going to play basketball.
And I got a job working on a par three
course in my hometown of Logan Sport, Indiana between my
(00:57):
junior and senior year in high school, and it really
was just nothing more than a job. And I didn't
start playing golf until the following summer when I was
out of high school. But I really liked the guy
that I worked for at this Part three course. He
was taught a lot, was he was the pro superintendent there,
(01:18):
and he taught me a lot, and he really kind
of motivated me to be in the business. And I
went to Purdue University and as a freshman I was
going to major in radio and TV and journalism. And
after my freshman year, largely because of the two summers
that I'd worked at that Part three course and his
influence on me, I changed my major to agronomy and
(01:42):
turf management. And I thought I wanted to be a
golf course superintendent at that point in my life. But
you know, I guess that's kind of a different career path,
probably than most PGA presidents would add.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So, okay, so you go through your micro right through
through college and so that you're not going to be
a golf course supertown. So how do you you just
stayed at you stayed.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Where did you What did you do? What did you
how did you matriculate that?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, you know, when I got out of when I
graduated from Purdue in nineteen seventy six, I interviewed for
a job then and lent in Indiana at the Phil
Harris Golf Course. It was an eighteen old municipal golf
course in a count of about sixty five hundred, and
they were looking for a pro superintendent, and you know,
(02:33):
I turned the job down because I had to make
my money doing the things that a golf professional would do,
and my skill really was being a golf course superintendent.
And my dad and grandfather were barbers and the pro
at the local municipal golf course and local sport, not
the course that I worked at, but the one across town.
He was in the barbershop getting a haircut and he
(02:54):
asked my dad what I was going to do when
I get out of college, and my dad told him that,
you know, I was still looking for a job. That
I'd been offered this pro superintendent job, but I turned
it down. And the guy's name was Frank Henry. He
was a PGA professional. And Frank called me at Purdue
one night. I was in my dorm room and he said, hey,
(03:17):
why did you turn that job down in Lynton? And
I said, well, Frank, I turned it down because you
got to make your money doing the things that a
golf bro would do. And you know, it's not what
I'm trained for. And he said, well, let me tell
you something. He said, you've got the specialty thing that
they need in the turf management and the golf course
(03:37):
superintendent part of it. And he said you can learn
the business acumen. And he said, you really need to
rethink that. And I was going to own the cards. Okay,
now that was that's kind of a relative statement in
nineteen seventy six at that golf course because they had
sixty five private cards. So I was going to lease
(03:58):
twelve Harley Davidson gas cars. I was going to own
the golf shop, which consisted of about eight hundred square feet,
and I was going to own the concession stand. And
my grandfather wound up loaning me a couple thousand dollars
to inventory the shop. And the first thing I did
was change from Coca Cola in returnable glass bottles to
(04:22):
a post mixed fountain machine. And that that was a
controversial move and went because they had a Coca Cola
bottling plant. Well, of course it was, but anyway, so
I mean I was really kind of thrown into the dogs.
But again it was Frank Henry, who was a PGA
professional that I would say was very instrumental in launching
(04:46):
my career and kind of getting me to see the
big picture.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That's pretty that's pretty fascinating. So all right, so how
long did you stay there?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I was there for seventeen years until we built the
Legends Golf Club here in Franklin, Indiana, which is where
I am now. We did that in We opened in
nineteen ninety two. So this is ironically my fifty first
season of running a golf course. Fiftieth. Actually, I guess
(05:16):
I started in seventy six and I've only had two
jobs that seventeen years that I was in Lynton and
then the past thirty three that i've been here.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
So you're getting pretty good at it now, right fifty years,
you're getting pretty good at it.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, it's kind of fun right now, Rich, I mean,
I've kind of gone full circle. We have twenty seven
championship holes, a nine hole part three course, and a
very large practice facility. And when I got back from
the Ryder Cup in twenty fourteen, my superintendent left and
took a job at an eighteen whole private club, and
so I hired a couple of assistants, assistant superintendents, and
(05:53):
I thought, well, maybe you know, that'll be the way
to go, and that really didn't work out. Two goods
so or eight years ago, I just said, you know what,
I'm going to be a golf course superintendent and went
back studied got my certified besticide applicator's license after many,
many years of being away from that, and so pretty
(06:14):
much day to day, that's what I spend most of
my time doing, and it's I love it because it's
a complete change of pace. I like working outside. I've
really enjoyed how science and pesticides and herbicides and fungicides
and everything has changed since I got into the business.
(06:34):
And I'm very fortunate that I've got a really good
head golf professional and Crystal Morse, who can kind of
manage the inside part of it. So right now I'm
probably enjoying my professional life as much as I have
at any point in my career.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Wow. So that is full circle. It's truly full circle.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It is truly full cycle. You know. The cool thing
here is last year we played sixty thousand rounds. Being
busy and being seasonal and having three hundred acres to maintain,
I mean, it takes a lot of coordination. It takes
a lot of really good help, and I got a
lot of great part time retired people, you know, summer
(07:14):
college students that work force in the peak season. It's
just kind of a conglomeration of people and personalities. Don't
have really a lot of full time employees because we're
seasonal and not doing much outside November, December, January, and February.
So there's a lot of challenges that go along with it.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
But I love it all right.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
So okay, so now I've got I want to talk
about a little bit a little bit something else right now.
So okay, so obviously you're a PJ professional and all this,
but when did you decide to get into the governance
of the PGA of America, Like, what did you get
in a section? Did you get into the district? Tell
me how that worked.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, Well, I got my PGA membership and actually in
nineteen eighty five, and I got into the business as
what they called then a non member head professionals. So
I had to earn my work credits at half a
credit a month. I flew through business school one and two,
and then I had to just wait around and work
(08:15):
and earn those credits at you half a month, so
I got my membership in eighty five. I was contacted
by the Indiana Section about being on their Board of
directors in nineteen ninety eight. No, sorry, nineteen eighty eight.
It's been so long ago, I forget the years. But
nineteen eighty eight I went on to the Section board
(08:37):
and then I wound up going through the chairs here
in our section. And I was the Indiana Section president
in ninety seven and ninety eight. And then Jack Connelly,
who was the President of the PGA of America, I
called me and appointed me to the National Membership Committee.
And I spent actually ten years on that National Membership Committee.
(08:59):
And then Jack also appointed me to the PGA Board
of Control, which is like the supreme Court of the
PGA of America, where you deal with a lot of
membership issues. And I went from the boarder Control to
District six director and then was elected as Secretary of
the PGA of America in November of two thousand and
(09:21):
seven and completed my time as president in twenty fourteen.
So it was, you know, roughly twenty six years of
volunteer time in leadership with the PGA of America.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So suffice it to say, the sitting on your bed
in a dorm and Purdue. You'd never seen that coming.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
No, I would never have seen it coming. And even
you know, for many many years as a golf professional,
I wouldn't have seen it coming. And I you know,
I mean, I started going to annual meetings PGA annual
meetings when I was a section officer actually, and I
was very frustrated, like a lot of PGA members are.
(10:05):
When I went to those annual meetings. It just seemed
like a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of talk, nothing
ever really got done. And uh so again I kind
of lost interest a little bit in it. And then
Jack kind of rekindled that interest when I got a
pointed to the Membership Committee because there was always just
a lot of really intriguing, interesting membership issues, you know,
(10:27):
that were out there. And then serving on the Board
of Control and seeing those up close and really seeing
the impact that you're making them PGA members' lives when
you serve on that Board of control kind of rekindled
my interests. That I got to be good friends with
Jim Remy and you know, helped Jim get elected really
(10:48):
exciting election. He beat Alan Ornowski on the seventh ballot.
I think it was.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I had Jim on the show and he told he
actually he actually he was very very very explicit because
I have a video and I think of all seven
elections and he goes and then finally he was just like,
I think they kind of just said, all right, you
know what, we'll just do it now.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, it's kind of funny. So, you know, I decided
that I would that I would run kind of out
of the blue in the next election, and I was
running against guys that were involved in that election with Remy,
and I actually probably made history in this regard. I
actually led the ballot after the first two votes at
the annual meeting at Kiawah Island, and Renawski wound up
(11:34):
beating me then on the third ballot in two thousand
and five. So you know, then, like a lot of
other PGA officers, you know, I ran more than once
and ran the second time and was elected. Then.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, that's something.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, it's funny because I think Remy said something to
me like, well, you know, I could just gone back
to skiing, you know, I just got I just gone
back to skiing, and what you know, but I think
obviously you know, he didn't turn it down, you know,
So so okay, So before we get into your officer
a portion of this, tell me a little bit about
(12:11):
more about the border control, because that's really interesting because
a lot of PJ professionals do not know that even
kind of functions that way.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, the Board of Control back in that day would
have dealt with a lot of recertification issues, reasons why
members maybe were delinquent or late on earning their member
service requirement points. There could be tournament violations that that
maybe had had taken place, some kind of an integrity
(12:42):
issue with players, and you know, the way it works,
the governance works with the PGA of America. You know,
if you have an issue as a section member, you
first need to deal with that through your section right
and if as a member you don't like the outcome
of the Section board, then you have the ability to
(13:05):
appeal to the PGA Board of Control. That's like the
that's the next step in the appeal process. And then
if you're not satisfied with the decision from the PGA
Board of Control, then you can appeal that to the
National PGA Board of Directors. And if you're still not satisfied,
(13:26):
then you have the ability to appear at the annual
meeting in front of the delegation and you know, and
voice your concerns in that regard. And in my time
I never saw anyone ever make it as far as
the annual meeting. But the time that my time as
a director with the PGA of American and certainly six
(13:47):
years as an officer, and we did have, you know,
many situations where members weren't satisfied with the section's stance
or even the Board of controls, and they would go
to the Board of Directors and on occasion we would
overturn it and side with a member.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Wow. So so was that wow?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
So so A Now, aside from ethical obviously would be
behavioral too. Ethical would imply that you know, I wrote it,
you know, on number twelve and you know kind of
fixed it. But behavioral too, like you know, disrespectful to
a sponsor, things.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Like that, correct, Yeah, convicted of felonies, you know. We
actually that was one of the things that we did change.
I think when I was on the boarder control. We
proposed it and the delegation passed it that if you
if a PGA member was convicted of a felony, then
it was an automatic expulsion. You know, I think rich
(14:44):
of all the boarder control cases and I mean, I man,
I forget I used to know. It's probably with the
four years I served and in the two years I
was chairman the secretary of the PGA of America, I'm
sure I've heard over a thousand cases. But you know,
we had one where we had a female from the
(15:04):
Illinois Section who had breast cancer and she simply was
appealing to the PGA Board of Control to get an
extension to allow her to earn the MSR that she
needed to get to be recertified. And she obviously was
going through some treatments and had her you know, ability
(15:26):
to do that interrupted. And I mean, that was an
absolute no brainer. And you know, so we notified the
Illinois Section that yes, we certainly would grant the appeal,
and and we got notification back from the section that
in the intern she had passed away. And you know,
you just you look at the sincerity in that type
(15:49):
of appeal versus some of the bogus requests.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Right, we had.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Remembers over the years and you're just thinking, wow, that
this person, you know, was obviously facing grave circumstances and
their PGA membership was important to him enough that they
were going to ask for an extension under these circumstances,
which pretty amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Okay, So when we come back for this commercial break,
we're going to talk about your presidency and some of
the national things that you did, and then I'm going
to talk a little bit more about the future of
the PGA. This is the Rich Comboll Golf Show. Welcome
back to the Rich Komball Golf Show. We are joined
by Ted Bishop. Ted is a former president of the
(16:30):
PGA of America and we just kind of did a
run up to his election and so obviously was the
secretary the vice president obviously had to run for the
presidency as well.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Lost once correct.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Well I lost the secretary secretary, you know, yeah, I mean,
you always have the ability to run anybody run off
the floor, it never happens. But the big elections for.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Secretary you lost it, lost to Ronowski, and then you
won and then we just kind of rolled right through
to the presidency.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And so what years do you president?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I was president in twenty thirteen and fourteen.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about what the
landscape was then and how different it is now versus then.
So in twenty thirteen, the PGA of America was, well,
we were your biggest folk. I don't know, but your
biggest I couln't tell you what your biggest focus is.
But you know, obviously we run the PGA Championship and we.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Run the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
But the President and the pg of America were very
involved in selecting the captain of the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Correct, Yeah, we were. I would say the biggest issue
that's kind of similar to what they're dealing with right now,
was you know, we had anchoring in the controversy with
the USGA over the banning the anchored putting stroke. Obviously
they're dealing with the rollback in the golf ball. That
was the first thing that you know, I had to
(18:04):
deal with right out of the box. And it was
the first time that the PGA of America had ever
opposed the USGA, and any proposed rules changed got to
be pretty contested. It was. There was a lot of
conflict between the two associations. Ultimately, the PGA Tour sided
with the PGA of America. Tim fincham and I had
(18:26):
a really good relationship, and I would give Finch him
all the credit in the world for, you know, really
doing the things that he needed to do to make
that happen. A lot of people don't know this, but
going back to nineteen sixty eight when the PGA Tour
and the PGA of America split, it had been a
contentious relationship for many, many years. Not a lot of
(18:47):
trust involved from the PGA of America's side with the
PGA Tour. So, you know, one of the things that
I'm really proud of is during my time is that
we really fostered that relationship and enhanced it with the
PGA Tour, and Benjamin and I were able to collaborate
on a lot of things that were advantageous to members
(19:08):
of both associations. The drive Chip and Pritt started. During
my time as president of the PGA of America. We
did a four hundred and forty million dollar Ryder Cup
television extension with NBC. And one of the things that
we did with some of that four hundred and forty
million is we doubled the ADP funding, which goes to
(19:31):
sections every year. It had been locked in at ninety
thousand forever, and we increased it to one hundred and
eighty thousand per year with some percentage escalators that are
still in tact today. And I think since twenty fourteen
there's been over fifty million dollars that has been extended
(19:53):
back to sections as a result of that TV deal.
And that's probably one of the things that I'm really
proud of. During my time, we we established the Deacon
Palmer Award, which was important in really resurrecting a kind
of a convoluted relationship that Arnold Palmer had with the
PGA America. And uh and we did name a Ryder
(20:16):
Cup Captain and uh and that was Tom Watson.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Okay, so all right, so let me let me go.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Now I'm going to talk about two very quickly to
two hot topics.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
For me personally.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
You know, I've been I've only been I'm not a
PJ member as long as you but I'm a huge
history guy. Okay, So, like the Horton Smith thing, I mean,
you know, for those who don't know, Horton Smith was
president of the PJ of America, you know, was the
head golf professional Detroit Golf Club, really really instrumental in
(20:49):
getting PJ professionals educated and fostering education with PG professionals,
but unfortunately was on the board when a clause in
the pg of America bylaws was upheld which was Caucasian only.
So a couple of years ago we've we kind of,
(21:11):
I don't know, I don't want to say removed, but
we removed Horton Smith's name from kind of all the
awards and all the accolades. That the sections and the
sections could still do it. But the PGA of America
a lot applauded Horton Smith for all of these efforts,
and now we took them away. So I know you
were not in in governance at that point, but what
(21:35):
is your personal take on I'm just going to ask
you just your personal take on.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Well, I think that Horton Smith did do a lot
of things that were very positive for PGA members and
for the game, and he's an important part of golf history.
I probably have two sections Horton Smith Awards hanging on
my wall in here. So yeah, I mean I think
that it was it came at a time when obviously
(22:03):
the PGA of America was really focused on diversity and inclusion,
and you know, I would just say this that none
of us are proud of the all Caucasian clause. It
took place until nineteen sixty. Another unknown fact is that
women were not allowed in the PGA of America until
(22:25):
I think it was sometime in the seventies. First PGA
member was Barry Nasmith. So, I mean, there's a lot
of things in our past that leave a lot to
be desired, but things changed, times change, and those things,
you know, those wrongs got righted. I personally, I'd be
very blunt about this. You know, I did not agree
(22:47):
with the decision to take Gordon Smith's name off that award.
I feel like that there were a lot of things
written both ways. It's probably a matter of which side
of the fence she decided you wanted to be on.
But I feel like Horton Smith did a lot of
great things in golf and did a lot of, as
(23:08):
you said, great things for PGA members, and I'm not
sure that you can hold him responsible for everything that
that happened leading up to the change of that all
Caucasian clause that we had in our constitution. So, quite honestly, Rich,
that's something I'd.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Like to see changed, Okay, so how do we do that?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Well, I think there's a there's a procedure for changing
anything you went to in governance with the PGA of America.
I mean, that's why we have district directors and why
we have annual meetings. And you know, as a section member,
you take your concerns to multiple district directors and uh,
you know, you you can also go to the annual
(23:51):
meeting and propose a resolution. And you know, I've listened
to a little bit of the last podcast that you
did with Don Ray talked about that, right, and uh,
there is a process.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Okay, all right, so and then okay, so let's talk
about let's talk about this. Uh So, the Ryder Cup
captain you picked was Tom Watson. You know, the Ryder
Cup is, you know, Europe versus the United States. Wasn't
always Europe against the United States. That's amazing that the
kids don't know that.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
They really don't. They always thought it was Europe.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
But one of the guys that I always thought should
be a Ryder Cup captain is Larry Nelson. Larry Nelson
won two PGAs one US Open, uh one a US
Open and fought in Vietnam. So and I know it's
not I'm not blaming. I'm not blaming anybody. Let me
(24:49):
do let me put that way, But how do you
feel about that? I mean, I don't see how we
could overlook that.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Oh, I totally agree with you. And you know, actually
I had that conversation with Dick Smith, who's deceased now,
and I had a lot of respect for Dick. And
you know, he was a PGA leader back in the
nineties when this should have happened. It should have happened
somewhere probably between Watson, Kite, you know, those guys ninety
(25:20):
three to ninety seven. This should have happened, and for
whatever reason it didn't. Nobody can really explain, you know,
why it didn't. You know, it was kind of interesting
in two thousand and thirteen, twenty twelve when we actually
named Watson as the Ryder Cup captain. But you know,
(25:40):
I started doing research on this two years before the
decision was going to have to take place. And Jim
Huber wrote a really interesting book after the two thousand
and nine Open Championship at Turnberry about Tom Watson, and
it was really a great If you haven't read it,
I would suggest you read it. Just a great book
(26:01):
on Tom the Man, and it was about those four days,
but it was also about his career. And you know,
I called Huber after I had done reading this book
and I'm like, this is a confidential conversation, but I
would really be curious to hear what you would think
about possibly bringing Watson back as a Writer Cup captain
(26:21):
in twenty fourteen. And he's like, I think it'd be brilliant.
And the reasons that we did this were pretty simple.
I mean, first of all, he was a successful Writer
Cup captain or a Ryder Cup player himself. He's the
last winning Writer Cup captain on foreign soil nineteen ninety
(26:41):
three at the Belfry. He won five Open championships, four
of which were in Scotland. Recognized as probably one of
the greatest, if not the greatest bad weather players in
the history of the game. I did a lot of
betting with players that were on that ninety three team,
and I mean he was he was an obvious choice
(27:03):
and uh, you know, I'll never forget when we announced this.
Davis Love called me and he had been the Ryder
Cup captain in twenty twelve of with Dina and he said,
you know what, he said this, This choice was outstanding.
He said, people said I was too soft. He said,
this is the kind of guy, you know, that we
need to have as our next Ryder Cup captain. He said, man,
(27:23):
I wish I could play on this team. And uh,
you know, I spent a lot of time talking to
Steve Stricker, who wound up as one of Tom's assistant
captains in the lead up, you know to that. And
I remember the first conversation that I ever had with Stricker.
He was talking about all the personalities that all the
things that a Ryder Cup captain needed to have, and
(27:45):
he's like, you know, we need a guy like Tom Watson,
you know, a guy that walks into a room and
commands respect me. He had no idea, you know where
my head, you know was that I had the same
kind of conversation with Curtis Strange. So you know, there
there was there were there were a lot of reasons
why we picked Tom. It was kind of interesting. And
during that time, Larry was doing some work for a
(28:07):
golf channel and he had a kind of lobbied through
Morning Drive about being a Ryder Cup captain. So it
kind of rekindled the discussion when we were in the
process of trying to figure out who we were going
to choose as a twenty fourteen captain. Interestingly, the only
person that submitted a letter to the PGA of America
(28:32):
asking for consideration to be the twenty fourteen captain was
David Thoms. And it was kind of funny when I
came in as an officer in two thousand and eight,
it was like Julius Mason, who was our director of
public relations media Relations, It's like he had a napkin
with a list of names on it based on former
(28:55):
PGA champions on who was up next in the rotation,
And that's kind of the the PGA had been picking
these Ryder Cup captains, and you know, I just felt
like there were a lot of intangibles and tangibles that
Watson brought to the table. And you know, at the
time we made the pick, it was hailed as one
(29:16):
of the greatest moves that anybody ever made. And then
when the Ryder Cup was over with, it was one
of the biggest failures that he wanted seeing in the
history of the Ryder Cup. And here's the thing, Rich,
here's what people forget about the twenty fourteen Ryder Cup.
Tiger Woods, who had won five tournaments in twenty and
thirteen physically was unable to perform. In fourteen, Dustin Johnson
(29:40):
took a man a voluntary leave of absence from the
PGA Tour for some disciplinary issues. Duckner, who had had
a I think his record at me Dinah was three
and one, had won the PGA Championship in twenty thirteen,
and Jason had a neck injury and he was not
able to play on that twenty fourteen Ryder Cup. And
(30:03):
when you looked at the final scoring from an aggregate
metal standpoint, the United States got beat by thirty five
shots in those three days at the Ryder Cup at
Glenn Eagles. So, you know, for the finger to get
pointed at Tom Watson and for people to say that
he was responsible for that because he had a bad
(30:24):
relationship with the players is absolutely ridiculous. And that came
from one player, and we saw it on Sunday night,
and you know, there was a lot of friction between
he and the captain leading up to the Ryder Cup.
During the Ryder Cup, and I think it, unfortunately was
really a precursor of what we probably saw out of
(30:47):
Phil Mickelson as a year's unfolded.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, it's funny because you know what, when you throw
it out there, like the metal part of it, in
three days, you got beat by thirty shots. I've gotten
beat by thirty shots a lot in my life, and
I know it.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Was a drop every time.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
And I don't care who was in charge, you know
what I mean, I don't I don't care if I
were the captain, who are going to They steamrolled them,
you know, they got beat by thirty shots over three days.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Well, the funny, the funny thing of it is Phil
and Tiger they were going to be on that team
no matter what. And getting back to Woods's injuries, then
it became a situation with Tom and Tiger if you're
if you're healthy and you're able to play, you're going
(31:32):
to be on the team. And there was probably more
focus between Tom and Woods just based on the whole
physical situation that Tiger was undergoing in fourteen than there
was with Phil and I think, you know Phil, there
wasn't as much communication between Tom and Phil. But I'm
just telling you for a fact, Michelson was going to
(31:52):
be on that team no matter what. But I don't
think Tom probably a voice at the Phil. So Phil
was a little bit bent out of shape with that
whole thing. And and and he secured his position based
on his finish at PGA Championship. But there just was
a lot of a lot of behind the scenes stuff
leading into that Ryder Cup between those two guys that
(32:15):
I just it was not healthy for the for the
team for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Okay, when we come back from this commercial break, we're
going to talk about the rest of the Ryder Cup
and and what's going to happen in the future for
for the pg of America and for Ted Bishop. This
is the rich Comwoll Golf Show. Welcome back to the
rich Comboll Golf Show. We are joined by Ted Bishop,
former President of the PJ of America. We were just
(32:41):
talking about the twenty fourteen Ryder Cup and a little
bit of drama with the captain and captain select the
team members. I'm not real happy with the captain and
things like that, but it was kind of interesting how
all that came out after the losses.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Happened correct ed exactly.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I mean, you know, that's that's the thing. That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
I look at that and say, you know, it's easy
to say after it's over, whose fault it was, you know,
but it's nobody's fault.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Everybody got beat. You're on it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You know, this goes back to like you're talking about
playing tennis and playing basketball in Indiana, you know, in
sixth grade. You know what I mean, You're all on
the same team, you have the same short on. You know,
just because Timmy didn't play, well, guess what you guys lost.
You're not gonna blame Timmy. I just it just doesn't
make any sense to me. So all right, so I'm
(33:33):
gonna ask you talk to me about the fallout from
all this.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Well, the fallout from this was it was rough. And uh,
you know, Tom, like me as a PGA officer, was
a volunteer, and I mean he had had done more
during the two years of lead up to the Ryder
Cup than any captain prior to him, the PGA of
America as as more out of watch than they had
(34:01):
any captain. And he did everything they ask and more.
And the minute that it was over with, it was
like there was this line drawn in the sand internally
at the PGA of America and you were either on
Tom's side of the line or you were on Phil's
side of the line, and at that point in time,
I just felt like that Phil had a future with
(34:23):
the PGA of America. He was probably going to be
a no doubt at that point in time, he was
going to be a future Ryder Cup captain. He was
going to continue to play in Ryder Cups. And Tom's
time was done, and rich I thought it was really ironic.
The Tuesday of Ryder Cup week, Pete Levaqua, who was
our CEO at the time. Pete approached me and he said, hey,
(34:45):
he said, when this Ryder Cup's over with, he said,
why would we not bring Watson back as a Ryder
Cup captain. I mean, that's the kind of job that
Tom had done from an administrative standpoint leading into that
Ryder Cup. And obviously we lost and the rest was
was history. But you know, I just I had a
(35:07):
lot of loyalty to Watson and and I felt bad
for him. I just felt like he, you know, kind
of got thrown to the side and it just, you know,
it wasn't right. So it just it was a very
frustrating point in time. And you know, Ian Poulter had
come out with a book three weeks after the Ryder
(35:30):
Cup had taken place, and he had held a press
conference and talked about the book, and in the book
he was very had said some very derogatory things about
Nick Faldo. I happened to be working at the Greenbrier
with Nick on a thing he was doing for juniors
with the Faldo Institute, and I'd seen what Poulter had
(35:53):
said about Faldo, and then he kind of picked it
up and said some things about Watson, and I thought,
you know, really he has no dog in that hunt.
He's a foreign player at the United States captain. You know,
those comments are really not no need for that kind
of stuff. So obviously I went on social media, posted
(36:15):
some derogatory things about Poultry, referred to him as a
little girl. People interpreted that as a sexist remark. And
with the twenty four days to go in my term
as president, I was ousted. And there's not a day
that goes by that I don't think about that. And
(36:35):
here's what I would say. I had plenty of media training.
I mean, I was smart enough to not say anything
that's stupid, but I did, and I paid the consequences
for it, and I put the PGA of America in
a position where they had to do what they did
and they did it. And you know, so that was
my fault. But the Ryder Cup and the fallout from
(36:58):
the Ryder Cup, it was, uh, it was probably as
tough as anything that I've ever gone through short of
some kind of death in my family.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
So all right, let me ask this question. Have you
ever talked to Polter since then?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
You know, I did. I actually I called him in
November and apologized to him. He took my phone call.
We had a good conversation, and you know, I put
that behind me. And you know, it's funny Glenn Nagger,
who was the president of the USGA at the same
time I was president of the PGA of American who
was really my biggest adversary during the anchoring controversy, we
(37:36):
became really good friends, and you know, he reached out
to me and and he had kind of an unceremonial
parting of the ways with the USGA at the end
of his term and he said, you know, the difference
between you and me is this, He said, I really
was like a late volunteer in this organization that I served.
(37:58):
And he said it took me about year to get
over this. You said, in your case, you're a member
of the organization. You've given the last twenty five years
of your life and governance to the organization. And he said,
it's going to take you a lot longer to get
over this. And you know, I didn't really understand what
he meant at the time, but I would say it
probably took me five years to really put this thing
(38:23):
behind me and get myself in a better place mentally.
And but I am and you know, it's the old thing.
It is what it is. I can't I can't take
it back. It can't change anything. Just you know, have
to move on.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, I have to tell you, you know what.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
It's since we started talking about being on this show.
You you you've told me all along. I can ask
anything I want, You'll talk about whatever I want. I
got to tell you know what, especially in this day
and age, and I'm sounding a really old guy, but
you know what, the way you still end up to this,
it's pretty remarkable, very impressive.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Actually, it's impressive, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
I mean, it's hard enough for people to admit they
make mistakes, but it's hard enough it's harder still.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
To own them. And well, I'll give you a lot
of credit.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
You know, I appreciate that. And I'll tell you what.
I was very fortunate our local school system. I'm friends
with the athletic director, and so I got involved in
coaching the boys and girls high school teams, and you know,
I talked to my players a lot about this, just
to openly talk about it, talk about the responsibilities that
(39:35):
you have to yourself and other people, and with devices
the way they are today even more so than what
they were eleven or twelve years ago, you know, it's
an important message. And so I've tried to you know,
tried to take what happened to me and you know,
hopefully educate other people. And you don't do something as
bone out it is what I did.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, I get it. I get it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
But I think you're actually being a little too self deprecating.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Man. I said, you made a mistake, and you know
up to it. That's a trait. That's a trait that's
not found very much. It isn't.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
I hate to say that, it isn't, you know, And
I come at this from a from a completely different
standpoint because you know.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
I've I've you know, I've been very open and.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Honest about you know, you know, I'm an alcoholic, So
like Mike, I have to say that, like I have
to own that because if I don't, it will own me.
And and like, this is the kind of thing that
could have just scourried you into a hole, but you
didn't let it.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
And that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I know, I appreciate that. But you know, here's the thing.
I mean, I had two girls and they both played golf,
and they played at you know, very high levels. Both
we're Division one college players. There is no greater supporter
of women's golf in the state of Indiana then and
even now than what I am. And the thing was
(41:00):
nice is every I had so much support in my
home state, in the area of the state that I
live in. People recognized, you know, what I had done
in the past, and that's not who I was. And honestly,
it was the people that were around me, my family,
my friends, the people in my section. Those are the
(41:22):
people that you know, got me through this thing. Because
you know, when you're all of a sudden a national story,
it's it's not a lot of fun, and you know,
it's you have to deal with it. And the only
advice somebody did get me that had mediate experience was
don't read anything, don't listen to anything, don't watch anything
(41:45):
because it'll it'll take you over the edge. And I
didn't do that for.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Months, So all right, so let's do this.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
So you don't do that for a couple of months.
So you just put your head down and just go
back to work. Right, Yep, that's awesome, that's awesome. That's
that might be the larger lesson. You know, like what
you know, Hogan used to say, you know, the answer
is in the dirt. Just take it out of the dirt.
You know, if you can't do it, then you.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Can't do it. But you know, so.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
That's I think that's that's really remarkable. You just put
your head down and go back to work. So so
talk to me a little bit more about where you're
sitting right now, and like how proud you are that facility?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Well, I, you know, I'm really proud of it. And
you know, here's the thing and I think is interesting
in golf. Everybody credits the resurgence in the game to COVID,
and I would say that certainly that that played a
big part in it. But what's been great has been
to see the game sustain itself since twenty twenty and
twenty one. And we're just a very busy, medium priced
(42:51):
public golf course. We've made golf affordable. We deal in volume,
we give the people a good product, and and you know,
we've seen our rounds nearly double since what they were
ten or eleven years ago. And you know, you talk
about the difference between the PGA of America today and
back then. You know, when I served as president thirteen
(43:13):
or fourteen, rich it was all about growing the game, right,
I mean, the game was probably in the worst state
that it had ever been in up to that point
in time. So for me to be able to just
come back here, dive into my facility, have great people
to work with day in and day out, have the
ability to coach and teach, and you know, be involved
(43:33):
with these high school kids and have success in our program,
I mean, it's just been it's been really rewarding. And
as I said at the beginning of the program, I mean,
I'm seventy one years old and I am enjoying my
professional life more than I have at any point in
my career.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, that's awesome, because you know, it's funny. I mean,
not to draw a parallel to you, because you're way
better at your job.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Than I am.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
But I you know, it's funny because I had was
a private facility for five years and the owner came
in and just closed it. And so I moved to
a busy, busy, busy public facility. And and I just
it makes me so happy because like I have one
hundred and I have one hundred and fifteen kids in
a junior program.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
The facility has never seen a junior program.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Good for you, you know.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
I mean we you know, I have do two hope programs.
You have twenty six veterans. We'll go through that, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
I mean, we've got a ladies clinic, you know. And
it's just like and and.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
And yesterday we had a tailor made fitting day, you know,
and like people look around, go where does this come from? Like, well,
came from me, but it came from the PGA of America.
Like like I was taught this is what you do.
You grow the game.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Just grow the game.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
The more people you put on the golf course, the
more and then the happier the more the more you can,
the better you can get them, the more they're going
to play the more, the better they get, and the
more they play, the more they're gonna play at your place.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
So it's just well, no, and you said it, and
those programs came from the PGA of America, and I
you know, I would I'd love it when I go
to these section meetings and speak when I was president,
and invariably in the open form, somebody always stands up
and they want to know what the PGA of America
is going to do for them, And you know my
(45:19):
response to that would be, the PGA of America is
like a toolbox. It's going to give you this assortment
of tools, and it's what you do with those tools
at your job to make you better, to bring more
value to your employer, which hopefully will increase your compensation.
And I think the PGA of America today with the
(45:40):
programs like deferred comp for activities that a golf professional
can be involved in, and like you said, PGA Hope,
PGA Junior League. You know, we are the largest Watson
Links program in Indiana here at my facility. There's just
there's a variety of things that off professionals can do
(46:02):
as a result of their PGA membership. The biggest I
guess shortcoming and I feel like the PGA of America
has today is in member education. I feel like that we,
you know, ten years ago, we put all of our
eggs in the basket of associates or apprentices at that
point in time, and what we were going to do
to educate them. And that is important as you're working
(46:24):
towards membership. But I feel like we've fallen really short
of giving our members quality educational opportunities that can be
formed at the national level, that can be passed back down,
you know, to the section level that really will help
our members become better at their jobs. That's the biggest
thing that I would say to the leadership of the
(46:45):
PGA of America today is do something better in member education.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Well, I think then then I think what we should
probably do is start to talk about Horton Smithson more
and what he did, because if if it worked for him,
you know, it worked for him, you know, I mean.
And the thing the other thing is, and this is
and now I'm going to leave this one alone, but
the other thing is people don't realize that guy worked
for the last ten years of his career at Detroit
golf club with one lung. I mean, my god, he
(47:12):
could have gone he won two masters, he could have
gone home. He could have signed his name, he could
have signed his name to a piece of paper.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
And sold it. Yeah, but he didn't, you know.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
So all right, so we only have a couple of
seconds left. First of all, again, you know, probably not
that this really ranks and anybody's pantheon the awards, but
I would probably tell you the most honest person.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
I've talked to on this show.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
I mean, actually the most honest person, Like I think this,
I think that, And it's just you know, and the
way that you kind of stand up to what your
your what we what we called a mistake.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
I give you credit for that, And I guess maybe
what I wanted to do is just take a second
just say thanks, you know, because I know, as you
sit there in Indiana and you do all your work,
and you're seventy two years old and do all that stuff,
you know, it's easy to kind of be bitter, but
you're not.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
And I give you a lot of credit for that,
and I appreciate that. You know, I just want to
say thank you, thanks for being on the show.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
And thanks for answering the phone.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Absolutely thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
You bet. This is the rich Com Wall Goof show.
Welcome to the Rich Comal Golf Show. I'm going to
jump right into this one this week. This week I'm
joined by Ted Bishop, former president of the PJ of America,
and we're going to talk about all sorts of things
in the world of golf and the PG of America
and Ryder Cup and all sorts of fun things like that.
But first off, Ted, thanks for joining me.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh my pleasure. Rich thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
You bet you so.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
As I start with everybody, tell me how how you
started to fall I know you fell in love with
golf a long time ago, but tell me how that
all started.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, you know, my story is kind of interesting. My
dad did not play golf, so I really wasn't exposed
to it as a kid. And I played basketball, baseball
and tennis as a fall sport, which you had to
do in Indiana if you were going to play basketball.
And I got a job working on a par three
course in my hometown of Logan Sport, Indiana between my
(00:57):
junior and senior year in high school, and it really
was just nothing more than a job. And I didn't
start playing golf until the following summer when I was
out of high school. But I really liked the guy
that I worked for at this Part three course. He
was taught a lot, was he was the pro superintendent there,
(01:18):
and he taught me a lot, and he really kind
of motivated me to be in the business. And I
went to Purdue University and as a freshman I was
going to major in radio and TV and journalism. And
after my freshman year, largely because of the two summers
that I'd worked at that Part three course and his
influence on me, I changed my major to agronomy and
(01:42):
turf management. And I thought I wanted to be a
golf course superintendent at that point in my life. But
you know, I guess that's kind of a different career path,
probably than most PGA presidents would add.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So, okay, so you go through your micro right through
through college and so that you're not going to be
a golf course supertown. So how do you you just
stayed at you stayed.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Where did you What did you do? What did you
how did you matriculate that?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, you know, when I got out of when I
graduated from Purdue in nineteen seventy six, I interviewed for
a job then and lent in Indiana at the Phil
Harris Golf Course. It was an eighteen old municipal golf
course in a count of about sixty five hundred, and
they were looking for a pro superintendent, and you know,
(02:33):
I turned the job down because I had to make
my money doing the things that a golf professional would do,
and my skill really was being a golf course superintendent.
And my dad and grandfather were barbers and the pro
at the local municipal golf course and local sport, not
the course that I worked at, but the one across town.
He was in the barbershop getting a haircut and he
(02:54):
asked my dad what I was going to do when
I get out of college, and my dad told him that,
you know, I was still looking for a job. That
I'd been offered this pro superintendent job, but I turned
it down. And the guy's name was Frank Henry. He
was a PGA professional. And Frank called me at Purdue
one night. I was in my dorm room and he said, hey,
(03:17):
why did you turn that job down in Lynton? And
I said, well, Frank, I turned it down because you
got to make your money doing the things that a
golf bro would do. And you know, it's not what
I'm trained for. And he said, well, let me tell
you something. He said, you've got the specialty thing that
they need in the turf management and the golf course
(03:37):
superintendent part of it. And he said you can learn
the business acumen. And he said, you really need to
rethink that. And I was going to own the cards. Okay,
now that was that's kind of a relative statement in
nineteen seventy six at that golf course because they had
sixty five private cards. So I was going to lease
(03:58):
twelve Harley Davidson gas cars. I was going to own
the golf shop, which consisted of about eight hundred square feet,
and I was going to own the concession stand. And
my grandfather wound up loaning me a couple thousand dollars
to inventory the shop. And the first thing I did
was change from Coca Cola in returnable glass bottles to
(04:22):
a post mixed fountain machine. And that that was a
controversial move and went because they had a Coca Cola
bottling plant. Well, of course it was, but anyway, so
I mean I was really kind of thrown into the dogs.
But again it was Frank Henry, who was a PGA
professional that I would say was very instrumental in launching
(04:46):
my career and kind of getting me to see the
big picture.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That's pretty that's pretty fascinating. So all right, so how
long did you stay there?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I was there for seventeen years until we built the
Legends Golf Club here in Franklin, Indiana, which is where
I am now. We did that in We opened in
nineteen ninety two. So this is ironically my fifty first
season of running a golf course. Fiftieth. Actually, I guess
(05:16):
I started in seventy six and I've only had two
jobs that seventeen years that I was in Lynton and
then the past thirty three that i've been here.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
So you're getting pretty good at it now, right fifty years,
you're getting pretty good at it.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, it's kind of fun right now, Rich, I mean,
I've kind of gone full circle. We have twenty seven
championship holes, a nine hole part three course, and a
very large practice facility. And when I got back from
the Ryder Cup in twenty fourteen, my superintendent left and
took a job at an eighteen whole private club, and
so I hired a couple of assistants, assistant superintendents, and
(05:53):
I thought, well, maybe you know, that'll be the way
to go, and that really didn't work out. Two goods
so or eight years ago, I just said, you know what,
I'm going to be a golf course superintendent and went
back studied got my certified besticide applicator's license after many,
many years of being away from that, and so pretty
(06:14):
much day to day, that's what I spend most of
my time doing, and it's I love it because it's
a complete change of pace. I like working outside. I've
really enjoyed how science and pesticides and herbicides and fungicides
and everything has changed since I got into the business.
(06:34):
And I'm very fortunate that I've got a really good
head golf professional and Crystal Morse, who can kind of
manage the inside part of it. So right now I'm
probably enjoying my professional life as much as I have
at any point in my career.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Wow. So that is full circle. It's truly full circle.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It is truly full cycle. You know. The cool thing
here is last year we played sixty thousand rounds. Being
busy and being seasonal and having three hundred acres to maintain,
I mean, it takes a lot of coordination. It takes
a lot of really good help, and I got a
lot of great part time retired people, you know, summer
(07:14):
college students that work force in the peak season. It's
just kind of a conglomeration of people and personalities. Don't
have really a lot of full time employees because we're
seasonal and not doing much outside November, December, January, and February.
So there's a lot of challenges that go along with it.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
But I love it all right.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
So okay, so now I've got I want to talk
about a little bit a little bit something else right now.
So okay, so obviously you're a PJ professional and all this,
but when did you decide to get into the governance
of the PGA of America, Like, what did you get
in a section? Did you get into the district? Tell
me how that worked.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, Well, I got my PGA membership and actually in
nineteen eighty five, and I got into the business as
what they called then a non member head professionals. So
I had to earn my work credits at half a
credit a month. I flew through business school one and two,
and then I had to just wait around and work
(08:15):
and earn those credits at you half a month, so
I got my membership in eighty five. I was contacted
by the Indiana Section about being on their Board of
directors in nineteen ninety eight. No, sorry, nineteen eighty eight.
It's been so long ago, I forget the years. But
nineteen eighty eight I went on to the Section board
(08:37):
and then I wound up going through the chairs here
in our section. And I was the Indiana Section president
in ninety seven and ninety eight. And then Jack Connelly,
who was the President of the PGA of America, I
called me and appointed me to the National Membership Committee.
And I spent actually ten years on that National Membership Committee.
(08:59):
And then Jack also appointed me to the PGA Board
of Control, which is like the supreme Court of the
PGA of America, where you deal with a lot of
membership issues. And I went from the boarder Control to
District six director and then was elected as Secretary of
the PGA of America in November of two thousand and
(09:21):
seven and completed my time as president in twenty fourteen.
So it was, you know, roughly twenty six years of
volunteer time in leadership with the PGA of America.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So suffice it to say, the sitting on your bed
in a dorm and Purdue. You'd never seen that coming.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
No, I would never have seen it coming. And even
you know, for many many years as a golf professional,
I wouldn't have seen it coming. And I you know,
I mean, I started going to annual meetings PGA annual
meetings when I was a section officer actually, and I
was very frustrated, like a lot of PGA members are.
(10:05):
When I went to those annual meetings. It just seemed
like a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of talk, nothing
ever really got done. And uh so again I kind
of lost interest a little bit in it. And then
Jack kind of rekindled that interest when I got a
pointed to the Membership Committee because there was always just
a lot of really intriguing, interesting membership issues, you know,
(10:27):
that were out there. And then serving on the Board
of Control and seeing those up close and really seeing
the impact that you're making them PGA members' lives when
you serve on that Board of control kind of rekindled
my interests. That I got to be good friends with
Jim Remy and you know, helped Jim get elected really
(10:48):
exciting election. He beat Alan Ornowski on the seventh ballot.
I think it was.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I had Jim on the show and he told he
actually he actually he was very very very explicit because
I have a video and I think of all seven
elections and he goes and then finally he was just like,
I think they kind of just said, all right, you
know what, we'll just do it now.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, it's kind of funny. So, you know, I decided
that I would that I would run kind of out
of the blue in the next election, and I was
running against guys that were involved in that election with Remy,
and I actually probably made history in this regard. I
actually led the ballot after the first two votes at
the annual meeting at Kiawah Island, and Renawski wound up
(11:34):
beating me then on the third ballot in two thousand
and five. So you know, then, like a lot of
other PGA officers, you know, I ran more than once
and ran the second time and was elected. Then.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, that's something.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, it's funny because I think Remy said something to
me like, well, you know, I could just gone back
to skiing, you know, I just got I just gone
back to skiing, and what you know, but I think
obviously you know, he didn't turn it down, you know,
So so okay, So before we get into your officer
a portion of this, tell me a little bit about
(12:11):
more about the border control, because that's really interesting because
a lot of PJ professionals do not know that even
kind of functions that way.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, the Board of Control back in that day would
have dealt with a lot of recertification issues, reasons why
members maybe were delinquent or late on earning their member
service requirement points. There could be tournament violations that that
maybe had had taken place, some kind of an integrity
(12:42):
issue with players, and you know, the way it works,
the governance works with the PGA of America. You know,
if you have an issue as a section member, you
first need to deal with that through your section right
and if as a member you don't like the outcome
of the Section board, then you have the ability to
(13:05):
appeal to the PGA Board of Control. That's like the
that's the next step in the appeal process. And then
if you're not satisfied with the decision from the PGA
Board of Control, then you can appeal that to the
National PGA Board of Directors. And if you're still not satisfied,
(13:26):
then you have the ability to appear at the annual
meeting in front of the delegation and you know, and
voice your concerns in that regard. And in my time
I never saw anyone ever make it as far as
the annual meeting. But the time that my time as
a director with the PGA of American and certainly six
(13:47):
years as an officer, and we did have, you know,
many situations where members weren't satisfied with the section's stance
or even the Board of controls, and they would go
to the Board of Directors and on occasion we would
overturn it and side with a member.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Wow. So so was that wow?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
So so A Now, aside from ethical obviously would be
behavioral too. Ethical would imply that you know, I wrote it,
you know, on number twelve and you know kind of
fixed it. But behavioral too, like you know, disrespectful to
a sponsor, things.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Like that, correct, Yeah, convicted of felonies, you know. We
actually that was one of the things that we did change.
I think when I was on the boarder control. We
proposed it and the delegation passed it that if you
if a PGA member was convicted of a felony, then
it was an automatic expulsion. You know, I think rich
(14:44):
of all the boarder control cases and I mean, I man,
I forget I used to know. It's probably with the
four years I served and in the two years I
was chairman the secretary of the PGA of America, I'm
sure I've heard over a thousand cases. But you know,
we had one where we had a female from the
(15:04):
Illinois Section who had breast cancer and she simply was
appealing to the PGA Board of Control to get an
extension to allow her to earn the MSR that she
needed to get to be recertified. And she obviously was
going through some treatments and had her you know, ability
(15:26):
to do that interrupted. And I mean, that was an
absolute no brainer. And you know, so we notified the
Illinois Section that yes, we certainly would grant the appeal,
and and we got notification back from the section that
in the intern she had passed away. And you know,
you just you look at the sincerity in that type
(15:49):
of appeal versus some of the bogus requests.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Right, we had.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Remembers over the years and you're just thinking, wow, that
this person, you know, was obviously facing grave circumstances and
their PGA membership was important to him enough that they
were going to ask for an extension under these circumstances,
which pretty amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Okay, So when we come back for this commercial break,
we're going to talk about your presidency and some of
the national things that you did, and then I'm going
to talk a little bit more about the future of
the PGA. This is the Rich Comboll Golf Show. Welcome
back to the Rich Komball Golf Show. We are joined
by Ted Bishop. Ted is a former president of the
(16:30):
PGA of America and we just kind of did a
run up to his election and so obviously was the
secretary the vice president obviously had to run for the
presidency as well.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Lost once correct.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Well I lost the secretary secretary, you know, yeah, I mean,
you always have the ability to run anybody run off
the floor, it never happens. But the big elections for.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Secretary you lost it, lost to Ronowski, and then you
won and then we just kind of rolled right through
to the presidency.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And so what years do you president?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I was president in twenty thirteen and fourteen.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about what the
landscape was then and how different it is now versus then.
So in twenty thirteen, the PGA of America was, well,
we were your biggest folk. I don't know, but your
biggest I couln't tell you what your biggest focus is.
But you know, obviously we run the PGA Championship and we.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Run the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
But the President and the pg of America were very
involved in selecting the captain of the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Correct, Yeah, we were. I would say the biggest issue
that's kind of similar to what they're dealing with right now,
was you know, we had anchoring in the controversy with
the USGA over the banning the anchored putting stroke. Obviously
they're dealing with the rollback in the golf ball. That
was the first thing that you know, I had to
(18:04):
deal with right out of the box. And it was
the first time that the PGA of America had ever
opposed the USGA, and any proposed rules changed got to
be pretty contested. It was. There was a lot of
conflict between the two associations. Ultimately, the PGA Tour sided
with the PGA of America. Tim fincham and I had
(18:26):
a really good relationship, and I would give Finch him
all the credit in the world for, you know, really
doing the things that he needed to do to make
that happen. A lot of people don't know this, but
going back to nineteen sixty eight when the PGA Tour
and the PGA of America split, it had been a
contentious relationship for many, many years. Not a lot of
(18:47):
trust involved from the PGA of America's side with the
PGA Tour. So, you know, one of the things that
I'm really proud of is during my time is that
we really fostered that relationship and enhanced it with the
PGA Tour, and Benjamin and I were able to collaborate
on a lot of things that were advantageous to members
(19:08):
of both associations. The drive Chip and Pritt started. During
my time as president of the PGA of America. We
did a four hundred and forty million dollar Ryder Cup
television extension with NBC. And one of the things that
we did with some of that four hundred and forty
million is we doubled the ADP funding, which goes to
(19:31):
sections every year. It had been locked in at ninety
thousand forever, and we increased it to one hundred and
eighty thousand per year with some percentage escalators that are
still in tact today. And I think since twenty fourteen
there's been over fifty million dollars that has been extended
(19:53):
back to sections as a result of that TV deal.
And that's probably one of the things that I'm really
proud of. During my time, we we established the Deacon
Palmer Award, which was important in really resurrecting a kind
of a convoluted relationship that Arnold Palmer had with the
PGA America. And uh and we did name a Ryder
(20:16):
Cup Captain and uh and that was Tom Watson.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Okay, so all right, so let me let me go.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Now I'm going to talk about two very quickly to
two hot topics.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
For me personally.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
You know, I've been I've only been I'm not a
PJ member as long as you but I'm a huge
history guy. Okay, So, like the Horton Smith thing, I mean,
you know, for those who don't know, Horton Smith was
president of the PJ of America, you know, was the
head golf professional Detroit Golf Club, really really instrumental in
(20:49):
getting PJ professionals educated and fostering education with PG professionals,
but unfortunately was on the board when a clause in
the pg of America bylaws was upheld which was Caucasian only.
So a couple of years ago we've we kind of,
(21:11):
I don't know, I don't want to say removed, but
we removed Horton Smith's name from kind of all the
awards and all the accolades. That the sections and the
sections could still do it. But the PGA of America
a lot applauded Horton Smith for all of these efforts,
and now we took them away. So I know you
were not in in governance at that point, but what
(21:35):
is your personal take on I'm just going to ask
you just your personal take on.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Well, I think that Horton Smith did do a lot
of things that were very positive for PGA members and
for the game, and he's an important part of golf history.
I probably have two sections Horton Smith Awards hanging on
my wall in here. So yeah, I mean I think
that it was it came at a time when obviously
(22:03):
the PGA of America was really focused on diversity and inclusion,
and you know, I would just say this that none
of us are proud of the all Caucasian clause. It
took place until nineteen sixty. Another unknown fact is that
women were not allowed in the PGA of America until
(22:25):
I think it was sometime in the seventies. First PGA
member was Barry Nasmith. So, I mean, there's a lot
of things in our past that leave a lot to
be desired, but things changed, times change, and those things,
you know, those wrongs got righted. I personally, I'd be
very blunt about this. You know, I did not agree
(22:47):
with the decision to take Gordon Smith's name off that award.
I feel like that there were a lot of things
written both ways. It's probably a matter of which side
of the fence she decided you wanted to be on.
But I feel like Horton Smith did a lot of
great things in golf and did a lot of, as
(23:08):
you said, great things for PGA members, and I'm not
sure that you can hold him responsible for everything that
that happened leading up to the change of that all
Caucasian clause that we had in our constitution. So, quite honestly, Rich,
that's something I'd.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Like to see changed, Okay, so how do we do that?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Well, I think there's a there's a procedure for changing
anything you went to in governance with the PGA of America.
I mean, that's why we have district directors and why
we have annual meetings. And you know, as a section member,
you take your concerns to multiple district directors and uh,
you know, you you can also go to the annual
(23:51):
meeting and propose a resolution. And you know, I've listened
to a little bit of the last podcast that you
did with Don Ray talked about that, right, and uh,
there is a process.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Okay, all right, so and then okay, so let's talk
about let's talk about this. Uh So, the Ryder Cup
captain you picked was Tom Watson. You know, the Ryder
Cup is, you know, Europe versus the United States. Wasn't
always Europe against the United States. That's amazing that the
kids don't know that.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
They really don't. They always thought it was Europe.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
But one of the guys that I always thought should
be a Ryder Cup captain is Larry Nelson. Larry Nelson
won two PGAs one US Open, uh one a US
Open and fought in Vietnam. So and I know it's
not I'm not blaming. I'm not blaming anybody. Let me
(24:49):
do let me put that way, But how do you
feel about that? I mean, I don't see how we
could overlook that.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Oh, I totally agree with you. And you know, actually
I had that conversation with Dick Smith, who's deceased now,
and I had a lot of respect for Dick. And
you know, he was a PGA leader back in the
nineties when this should have happened. It should have happened
somewhere probably between Watson, Kite, you know, those guys ninety
(25:20):
three to ninety seven. This should have happened, and for
whatever reason it didn't. Nobody can really explain, you know,
why it didn't. You know, it was kind of interesting
in two thousand and thirteen, twenty twelve when we actually
named Watson as the Ryder Cup captain. But you know,
(25:40):
I started doing research on this two years before the
decision was going to have to take place. And Jim
Huber wrote a really interesting book after the two thousand
and nine Open Championship at Turnberry about Tom Watson, and
it was really a great If you haven't read it,
I would suggest you read it. Just a great book
(26:01):
on Tom the Man, and it was about those four days,
but it was also about his career. And you know,
I called Huber after I had done reading this book
and I'm like, this is a confidential conversation, but I
would really be curious to hear what you would think
about possibly bringing Watson back as a Writer Cup captain
(26:21):
in twenty fourteen. And he's like, I think it'd be brilliant.
And the reasons that we did this were pretty simple.
I mean, first of all, he was a successful Writer
Cup captain or a Ryder Cup player himself. He's the
last winning Writer Cup captain on foreign soil nineteen ninety
(26:41):
three at the Belfry. He won five Open championships, four
of which were in Scotland. Recognized as probably one of
the greatest, if not the greatest bad weather players in
the history of the game. I did a lot of
betting with players that were on that ninety three team,
and I mean he was he was an obvious choice
(27:03):
and uh, you know, I'll never forget when we announced this.
Davis Love called me and he had been the Ryder
Cup captain in twenty twelve of with Dina and he said,
you know what, he said this, This choice was outstanding.
He said, people said I was too soft. He said,
this is the kind of guy, you know, that we
need to have as our next Ryder Cup captain. He said, man,
(27:23):
I wish I could play on this team. And uh,
you know, I spent a lot of time talking to
Steve Stricker, who wound up as one of Tom's assistant
captains in the lead up, you know to that. And
I remember the first conversation that I ever had with Stricker.
He was talking about all the personalities that all the
things that a Ryder Cup captain needed to have, and
(27:45):
he's like, you know, we need a guy like Tom Watson,
you know, a guy that walks into a room and
commands respect me. He had no idea, you know where
my head, you know was that I had the same
kind of conversation with Curtis Strange. So you know, there
there was there were there were a lot of reasons
why we picked Tom. It was kind of interesting. And
during that time, Larry was doing some work for a
(28:07):
golf channel and he had a kind of lobbied through
Morning Drive about being a Ryder Cup captain. So it
kind of rekindled the discussion when we were in the
process of trying to figure out who we were going
to choose as a twenty fourteen captain. Interestingly, the only
person that submitted a letter to the PGA of America
(28:32):
asking for consideration to be the twenty fourteen captain was
David Thoms. And it was kind of funny when I
came in as an officer in two thousand and eight,
it was like Julius Mason, who was our director of
public relations media Relations, It's like he had a napkin
with a list of names on it based on former
(28:55):
PGA champions on who was up next in the rotation,
And that's kind of the the PGA had been picking
these Ryder Cup captains, and you know, I just felt
like there were a lot of intangibles and tangibles that
Watson brought to the table. And you know, at the
time we made the pick, it was hailed as one
(29:16):
of the greatest moves that anybody ever made. And then
when the Ryder Cup was over with, it was one
of the biggest failures that he wanted seeing in the
history of the Ryder Cup. And here's the thing, Rich,
here's what people forget about the twenty fourteen Ryder Cup.
Tiger Woods, who had won five tournaments in twenty and
thirteen physically was unable to perform. In fourteen, Dustin Johnson
(29:40):
took a man a voluntary leave of absence from the
PGA Tour for some disciplinary issues. Duckner, who had had
a I think his record at me Dinah was three
and one, had won the PGA Championship in twenty thirteen,
and Jason had a neck injury and he was not
able to play on that twenty fourteen Ryder Cup. And
(30:03):
when you looked at the final scoring from an aggregate
metal standpoint, the United States got beat by thirty five
shots in those three days at the Ryder Cup at
Glenn Eagles. So, you know, for the finger to get
pointed at Tom Watson and for people to say that
he was responsible for that because he had a bad
(30:24):
relationship with the players is absolutely ridiculous. And that came
from one player, and we saw it on Sunday night,
and you know, there was a lot of friction between
he and the captain leading up to the Ryder Cup.
During the Ryder Cup, and I think it, unfortunately was
really a precursor of what we probably saw out of
(30:47):
Phil Mickelson as a year's unfolded.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, it's funny because you know what, when you throw
it out there, like the metal part of it, in
three days, you got beat by thirty shots. I've gotten
beat by thirty shots a lot in my life, and
I know it.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Was a drop every time.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
And I don't care who was in charge, you know
what I mean, I don't I don't care if I
were the captain, who are going to They steamrolled them,
you know, they got beat by thirty shots over three days.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Well, the funny, the funny thing of it is Phil
and Tiger they were going to be on that team
no matter what. And getting back to Woods's injuries, then
it became a situation with Tom and Tiger if you're
if you're healthy and you're able to play, you're going
(31:32):
to be on the team. And there was probably more
focus between Tom and Woods just based on the whole
physical situation that Tiger was undergoing in fourteen than there
was with Phil and I think, you know Phil, there
wasn't as much communication between Tom and Phil. But I'm
just telling you for a fact, Michelson was going to
(31:52):
be on that team no matter what. But I don't
think Tom probably a voice at the Phil. So Phil
was a little bit bent out of shape with that
whole thing. And and and he secured his position based
on his finish at PGA Championship. But there just was
a lot of a lot of behind the scenes stuff
leading into that Ryder Cup between those two guys that
(32:15):
I just it was not healthy for the for the
team for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Okay, when we come back from this commercial break, we're
going to talk about the rest of the Ryder Cup
and and what's going to happen in the future for
for the pg of America and for Ted Bishop. This
is the rich Comwoll Golf Show. Welcome back to the
rich Comboll Golf Show. We are joined by Ted Bishop,
former President of the PJ of America. We were just
(32:41):
talking about the twenty fourteen Ryder Cup and a little
bit of drama with the captain and captain select the
team members. I'm not real happy with the captain and
things like that, but it was kind of interesting how
all that came out after the losses.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Happened correct ed exactly.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I mean, you know, that's that's the thing. That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
I look at that and say, you know, it's easy
to say after it's over, whose fault it was, you know,
but it's nobody's fault.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Everybody got beat. You're on it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You know, this goes back to like you're talking about
playing tennis and playing basketball in Indiana, you know, in
sixth grade. You know what I mean, You're all on
the same team, you have the same short on. You know,
just because Timmy didn't play, well, guess what you guys lost.
You're not gonna blame Timmy. I just it just doesn't
make any sense to me. So all right, so I'm
(33:33):
gonna ask you talk to me about the fallout from
all this.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Well, the fallout from this was it was rough. And uh,
you know, Tom, like me as a PGA officer, was
a volunteer, and I mean he had had done more
during the two years of lead up to the Ryder
Cup than any captain prior to him, the PGA of
America as as more out of watch than they had
(34:01):
any captain. And he did everything they ask and more.
And the minute that it was over with, it was
like there was this line drawn in the sand internally
at the PGA of America and you were either on
Tom's side of the line or you were on Phil's
side of the line, and at that point in time,
I just felt like that Phil had a future with
(34:23):
the PGA of America. He was probably going to be
a no doubt at that point in time, he was
going to be a future Ryder Cup captain. He was
going to continue to play in Ryder Cups. And Tom's
time was done, and rich I thought it was really ironic.
The Tuesday of Ryder Cup week, Pete Levaqua, who was
our CEO at the time. Pete approached me and he said, hey,
(34:45):
he said, when this Ryder Cup's over with, he said,
why would we not bring Watson back as a Ryder
Cup captain. I mean, that's the kind of job that
Tom had done from an administrative standpoint leading into that
Ryder Cup. And obviously we lost and the rest was
was history. But you know, I just I had a
(35:07):
lot of loyalty to Watson and and I felt bad
for him. I just felt like he, you know, kind
of got thrown to the side and it just, you know,
it wasn't right. So it just it was a very
frustrating point in time. And you know, Ian Poulter had
come out with a book three weeks after the Ryder
(35:30):
Cup had taken place, and he had held a press
conference and talked about the book, and in the book
he was very had said some very derogatory things about
Nick Faldo. I happened to be working at the Greenbrier
with Nick on a thing he was doing for juniors
with the Faldo Institute, and I'd seen what Poulter had
(35:53):
said about Faldo, and then he kind of picked it
up and said some things about Watson, and I thought,
you know, really he has no dog in that hunt.
He's a foreign player at the United States captain. You know,
those comments are really not no need for that kind
of stuff. So obviously I went on social media, posted
(36:15):
some derogatory things about Poultry, referred to him as a
little girl. People interpreted that as a sexist remark. And
with the twenty four days to go in my term
as president, I was ousted. And there's not a day
that goes by that I don't think about that. And
(36:35):
here's what I would say. I had plenty of media training.
I mean, I was smart enough to not say anything
that's stupid, but I did, and I paid the consequences
for it, and I put the PGA of America in
a position where they had to do what they did
and they did it. And you know, so that was
my fault. But the Ryder Cup and the fallout from
(36:58):
the Ryder Cup, it was, uh, it was probably as
tough as anything that I've ever gone through short of
some kind of death in my family.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
So all right, let me ask this question. Have you
ever talked to Polter since then?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
You know, I did. I actually I called him in
November and apologized to him. He took my phone call.
We had a good conversation, and you know, I put
that behind me. And you know, it's funny Glenn Nagger,
who was the president of the USGA at the same
time I was president of the PGA of American who
was really my biggest adversary during the anchoring controversy, we
(37:36):
became really good friends, and you know, he reached out
to me and and he had kind of an unceremonial
parting of the ways with the USGA at the end
of his term and he said, you know, the difference
between you and me is this, He said, I really
was like a late volunteer in this organization that I served.
(37:58):
And he said it took me about year to get
over this. You said, in your case, you're a member
of the organization. You've given the last twenty five years
of your life and governance to the organization. And he said,
it's going to take you a lot longer to get
over this. And you know, I didn't really understand what
he meant at the time, but I would say it
probably took me five years to really put this thing
(38:23):
behind me and get myself in a better place mentally.
And but I am and you know, it's the old thing.
It is what it is. I can't I can't take
it back. It can't change anything. Just you know, have
to move on.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, I have to tell you, you know what.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
It's since we started talking about being on this show.
You you you've told me all along. I can ask
anything I want, You'll talk about whatever I want. I
got to tell you know what, especially in this day
and age, and I'm sounding a really old guy, but
you know what, the way you still end up to this,
it's pretty remarkable, very impressive.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Actually, it's impressive, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
I mean, it's hard enough for people to admit they
make mistakes, but it's hard enough it's harder still.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
To own them. And well, I'll give you a lot
of credit.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
You know, I appreciate that. And I'll tell you what.
I was very fortunate our local school system. I'm friends
with the athletic director, and so I got involved in
coaching the boys and girls high school teams, and you know,
I talked to my players a lot about this, just
to openly talk about it, talk about the responsibilities that
(39:35):
you have to yourself and other people, and with devices
the way they are today even more so than what
they were eleven or twelve years ago, you know, it's
an important message. And so I've tried to you know,
tried to take what happened to me and you know,
hopefully educate other people. And you don't do something as
bone out it is what I did.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, I get it. I get it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
But I think you're actually being a little too self deprecating.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Man. I said, you made a mistake, and you know
up to it. That's a trait. That's a trait that's
not found very much. It isn't.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
I hate to say that, it isn't, you know, And
I come at this from a from a completely different
standpoint because you know.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
I've I've you know, I've been very open and.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Honest about you know, you know, I'm an alcoholic, So
like Mike, I have to say that, like I have
to own that because if I don't, it will own me.
And and like, this is the kind of thing that
could have just scourried you into a hole, but you
didn't let it.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
And that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I know, I appreciate that. But you know, here's the thing.
I mean, I had two girls and they both played golf,
and they played at you know, very high levels. Both
we're Division one college players. There is no greater supporter
of women's golf in the state of Indiana then and
even now than what I am. And the thing was
(41:00):
nice is every I had so much support in my
home state, in the area of the state that I
live in. People recognized, you know, what I had done
in the past, and that's not who I was. And honestly,
it was the people that were around me, my family,
my friends, the people in my section. Those are the
(41:22):
people that you know, got me through this thing. Because
you know, when you're all of a sudden a national story,
it's it's not a lot of fun, and you know,
it's you have to deal with it. And the only
advice somebody did get me that had mediate experience was
don't read anything, don't listen to anything, don't watch anything
(41:45):
because it'll it'll take you over the edge. And I
didn't do that for.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Months, So all right, so let's do this.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
So you don't do that for a couple of months.
So you just put your head down and just go
back to work. Right, Yep, that's awesome, that's awesome. That's
that might be the larger lesson. You know, like what
you know, Hogan used to say, you know, the answer
is in the dirt. Just take it out of the dirt.
You know, if you can't do it, then you.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Can't do it. But you know, so.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
That's I think that's that's really remarkable. You just put
your head down and go back to work. So so
talk to me a little bit more about where you're
sitting right now, and like how proud you are that facility?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Well, I, you know, I'm really proud of it. And
you know, here's the thing and I think is interesting
in golf. Everybody credits the resurgence in the game to COVID,
and I would say that certainly that that played a
big part in it. But what's been great has been
to see the game sustain itself since twenty twenty and
twenty one. And we're just a very busy, medium priced
(42:51):
public golf course. We've made golf affordable. We deal in volume,
we give the people a good product, and and you know,
we've seen our rounds nearly double since what they were
ten or eleven years ago. And you know, you talk
about the difference between the PGA of America today and
back then. You know, when I served as president thirteen
(43:13):
or fourteen, rich it was all about growing the game, right,
I mean, the game was probably in the worst state
that it had ever been in up to that point
in time. So for me to be able to just
come back here, dive into my facility, have great people
to work with day in and day out, have the
ability to coach and teach, and you know, be involved
(43:33):
with these high school kids and have success in our program,
I mean, it's just been it's been really rewarding. And
as I said at the beginning of the program, I mean,
I'm seventy one years old and I am enjoying my
professional life more than I have at any point in
my career.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, that's awesome, because you know, it's funny. I mean,
not to draw a parallel to you, because you're way
better at your job.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Than I am.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
But I you know, it's funny because I had was
a private facility for five years and the owner came
in and just closed it. And so I moved to
a busy, busy, busy public facility. And and I just
it makes me so happy because like I have one
hundred and I have one hundred and fifteen kids in
a junior program.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
The facility has never seen a junior program.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Good for you, you know.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
I mean we you know, I have do two hope programs.
You have twenty six veterans. We'll go through that, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
I mean, we've got a ladies clinic, you know. And
it's just like and and.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
And yesterday we had a tailor made fitting day, you know,
and like people look around, go where does this come from? Like, well,
came from me, but it came from the PGA of America.
Like like I was taught this is what you do.
You grow the game.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Just grow the game.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
The more people you put on the golf course, the
more and then the happier the more the more you can,
the better you can get them, the more they're going
to play the more, the better they get, and the
more they play, the more they're gonna play at your place.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
So it's just well, no, and you said it, and
those programs came from the PGA of America, and I
you know, I would I'd love it when I go
to these section meetings and speak when I was president,
and invariably in the open form, somebody always stands up
and they want to know what the PGA of America
is going to do for them, And you know my
(45:19):
response to that would be, the PGA of America is
like a toolbox. It's going to give you this assortment
of tools, and it's what you do with those tools
at your job to make you better, to bring more
value to your employer, which hopefully will increase your compensation.
And I think the PGA of America today with the
(45:40):
programs like deferred comp for activities that a golf professional
can be involved in, and like you said, PGA Hope,
PGA Junior League. You know, we are the largest Watson
Links program in Indiana here at my facility. There's just
there's a variety of things that off professionals can do
(46:02):
as a result of their PGA membership. The biggest I
guess shortcoming and I feel like the PGA of America
has today is in member education. I feel like that we,
you know, ten years ago, we put all of our
eggs in the basket of associates or apprentices at that
point in time, and what we were going to do
to educate them. And that is important as you're working
(46:24):
towards membership. But I feel like we've fallen really short
of giving our members quality educational opportunities that can be
formed at the national level, that can be passed back down,
you know, to the section level that really will help
our members become better at their jobs. That's the biggest
thing that I would say to the leadership of the
(46:45):
PGA of America today is do something better in member education.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Well, I think then then I think what we should
probably do is start to talk about Horton Smithson more
and what he did, because if if it worked for him,
you know, it worked for him, you know, I mean.
And the thing the other thing is, and this is
and now I'm going to leave this one alone, but
the other thing is people don't realize that guy worked
for the last ten years of his career at Detroit
golf club with one lung. I mean, my god, he
(47:12):
could have gone he won two masters, he could have
gone home. He could have signed his name, he could
have signed his name to a piece of paper.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
And sold it. Yeah, but he didn't, you know.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
So all right, so we only have a couple of
seconds left. First of all, again, you know, probably not
that this really ranks and anybody's pantheon the awards, but
I would probably tell you the most honest person.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
I've talked to on this show.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
I mean, actually the most honest person, Like I think this,
I think that, And it's just you know, and the
way that you kind of stand up to what your
your what we what we called a mistake.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
I give you credit for that, And I guess maybe
what I wanted to do is just take a second
just say thanks, you know, because I know, as you
sit there in Indiana and you do all your work,
and you're seventy two years old and do all that stuff,
you know, it's easy to kind of be bitter, but
you're not.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
And I give you a lot of credit for that,
and I appreciate that. You know, I just want to
say thank you, thanks for being on the show.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
And thanks for answering the phone.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Absolutely thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
You bet. This is the rich Com Wall Goof show.
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