The Rich Conwell Show - June 22, 2024

Robert Harris of the Greenbrier Resort joins Rich to talk about his unique start in not just the game of golf, but the golf business as well.  Plus, the Greenbrier's impact on the game, Sam Snead, and more.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Rich Komball Golf Show. This past week we experienced an exhilarating
there's an SAT word for you,exhilarating US Open, incredible, incredible finish.
A lot of controversy over whether youshould be able to hit a golf
ball off the fairway and be ableto advance it in the US Open.

(00:24):
You know, traditionalists all think thatthe rough should be up to your middle
of your knee, and you know, it's a serious penalty and used to
be the usg said it was ahalf a shot penalty if you missed a
fairway, but it is what itis. They all played the same golf
course and unfortunately, you know,Rory McIlroy is now faced with a serious

(00:47):
mental hurdle to overcome to see ifyou can't put himself in that position again
and kind of maybe just maybe overcomethe short put demon, so to speak.
But that's all for another day becausethis week I am very very very
pleased to have with us Robert Harris. Robert is now the retired but he

(01:12):
is the PGA Professional Emeritus at theGreenbrier Resort. The green Brier is absolutely
its nickname is America's resort. Itis a phenomenal place. It is a
phenomenal place. History is everywhere,and it is just an incredible, incredible

(01:34):
facility, incredible golf courses, incredibleenvironment. And so, with no further
hesitation, I wanted to say,Robert, thanks for joining us on the
show today. I pleasure rich.That's awesome. It's awesome. So what
we're gonna do is gonna talk alittle bit about about your career. But

(01:56):
first, as I do with everyguest, tell me, tell me how
you got started in golf, Like, tell me your junior golf story,
because it's really to see if itmatches up to a lot of the other
ones we've experienced. Oh sure,Well, when I was a kid,
I played baseball. There's no golfcourses. Nearby is Jacksonville, Florida,
And our little league team won thestate championship. We went to Wake Forest.

(02:22):
We stayed in the dorms at wakeForest where we played in the Southeast
Regionals. In won boat games.But it was probably late July, and
there's some fraternity houses right down thestreet, and it was a beautiful field,
and these guys are out I assumethere are golf team members and we

(02:42):
were the third base and the shortstop, and I went over to watch
them, and it was the mostfascinating thing. You know, a baseball
goes a little league, you know, two hundred feet right at least getting
five irons, you know, onehundred and eighty yards up the hill.
And I was fascinated by you know, their swings, and they were nice
and they were talking to us,and that was really my first introduction to

(03:07):
the thrill of golf. Well,we lost the next game in North Virginia
to Texas and long, you know, motor coach ride home and a day
or two later. My dad wasleft handed and he was in the Air
Force and he probably played once ayear. So anyway, I still remember
he had Corydon clubs Cydon which laterbecame tideless, and his left handed I'm

(03:30):
taking some swings and I'm trying toemulate it left handed and just watching,
you know, picture in these swings, and so I put a ball down.
It was in a suburban neighborhood northJacksonville. First swing, I just
pinched it right off the turf,over the house across the street, right

(03:54):
down the block, and I'm chasingthe thing in a panic, waiting for
glass, the breaker ricochet off ofa car, and I'd be in permanent
jail. You know that their introduction. So I got a job. It
was only twelve years old. Igot a job cleaning filters at a laundry

(04:15):
mat. Saved forty dollars, boughta junior a set of clubs, and
so that's nineteen fifty four. Itwas. It was Veterans Day the next
year before. I played my firstround of golf at Fernandina Beach, Florida
on Veteran's Day with my dad.I still remember I shot one hundred and
fourteen. But anyway, half afew years I was the Junior Golf for

(04:41):
the Year in AID Area nineteen fiftyeighty nine, and Billy Casper was the
speaker at the awards ceremony hosted bythe Jacksonville Area Golf Association. Everybody's there,
a big, big deal, andso Billy Casper says, going to
go to school. I'm graduating thislater the spring. I said, I

(05:03):
have a partial scholarship to Jacksonville University. And he says, well, how'd
you like to go to school outwest? I said, sure, I
mean, what are you talking about? So caddying for Dave Stockton during the
Jacksonville Opens, the predecessor of theplayers Championship now. But anyway, after
the event, he lets go inthe locker room with him. I mean

(05:26):
nervousness can be He writes down thisnote that was on Sunday afternoon. They'd
be like Thursday a FedEx trucks.I don't think a FedEx truck had ever
been in our neighborhood for anything.And it was a full scholarship at b
YU from Billy Casper God, andso you know, I went from a

(05:50):
kid learning to play golf in afield that was mowed by a bushog brushog
and a full stop the BYU.So I get the BYU with the fall
of nineteen sixty nine. And Imean here, I've won the Jacksonville City
Junior Championship, the high School Conferencechampionship, and everybody else is like Oregon

(06:15):
State Amateur, California Amateur Champion,California Open Champion. I'm like, oh
my lord. Anyway, I struggledfor a couple of years, but my
junior and senior years I caught upwith everybody and uh and uh. And
it wasn't an All American, butI came close to winning some tournaments,

(06:35):
and my senior year there was theMountain State had the Rocky Mountain Tour,
kind of the equivalent of the FloridaWinter Tour, and stay and I won
the Provo Open, which was laterwon by Tony Fenw. So I told
him that when I when I methim during I said, we have something
in common. It's not the sameshoe size, but we both want the

(06:58):
Provo Open. That's awesome. It'sinteresting because because one of the reasons I
always ask those questions is because invariablyI talked to Bob Ford, I talked
to the to the executive director ofthe Colorado Section, Steve Barkowski. I
talked to Chris Chedder, who wonon the OPGA Tour. I talked to
Missy Berdiotti, who won on theOPGA Tour. And every one of them,

(07:21):
every one of them, in thestart of their story mentions their father.
And I know, your dad wasn'tany good. My dad wasn't any
good. But I I remember whenI beat him. I thought I could
I I thought I could beat anybodybecause I beat him. And and like
you remember that you that you playedwith your dad, you know, on
veterans. They remember the date.You remember the number, and the number

(07:45):
is not as important is as thecompany. It's your dad, I mean,
it's that's an awesome thing. Sookay, so you come out,
you win the Provo Open, youget through with school, obviously your college
graduate. So now what what doyou do now? Well, I stayed
in Utah that winner and worked.The economy wasn't that great in that fall

(08:07):
summer of seventy three seventy four,And so then I came back to Florida
the next spring and started working ata golf course. And I said,
you know, the whole deal wasyou couldn't turn pro unless you won the
Jacksonville Amateur Championship, which was aseventy two whole event over four different courses.
Well, in September I won thatevent. So I turned pro that

(08:33):
November one, it'll be fifty yearsago this November one, and played the
Florida Winner Tour and had, youknow, a moderate amount of success that
first winner. No no wins,but picked up checks in just about every
event and played with Mo Norman.That's the one most memorable. But there

(08:54):
are other players out there, youknow, Wayne Levy, Mark McCumber who
won the Players and other tournaments,and that that was sort of the era,
the Crenshaw and Kite that already wentstraight from thee Texas the rights of
the tour. I mean, theywere the big guns. But the next
year I won a couple of tournamentsand one of the very last tournaments played,

(09:18):
and was down to Call and playingwith a pro, a very good
player named Dave Pilo, his fatherand David Duvall's grandfather were like a driving
ranges. It's connected in New York, and they were, you know,
they were the northern pros that movedsouth. And he said, how much

(09:41):
come work up in Lake Plattid thissummer which is the summer of nineteen seventy
six, and there weren't a lotof tournaments to plane in the summer.
I mean, you could play instate opens, but there was a lot
of traveling, right, and alot of distance, whereas in the winter
the professional golf was concentrated in Floridaor Airs Owner or California, And it

(10:03):
was reasonable to do that, andso I did that, and really and
I played professional golf that next winter. But I thought to myself, you
know, people so appreciated the factthat I could play good golf, right,
and I'm like, this is athis is a much better way to

(10:24):
make a living than traveling. Imean, first place prize than any tournament
was probably five grand, you know, and ten grand some of the bigger
ones, but still tenth place wasfour hundred dollars, right, and you're
having to be one hundred and someother guys and uh uh and I was
just not quite at the level.And even most of the guys from that

(10:48):
year, you know, it tookthree, four or five years ago on
tour, and that's a that's along road of Yeah, it's funny because
people people don't really that, especiallywith all the avenues they have now.
Is it is like, you know, literally if you went down to the
because you know, Florida Winter Tourwas like almost like the Space Coast Tour

(11:09):
and JC Goosey and all those guys, and it's like they all went down
there and they all played like twowinners one winter, three winners. It's
not like it's not like they justwalked in and said, oh, by
the way, I'm I'm gonna playin two events and I'm going to play
on the tour. That's not whatyou did because there was no exempt then
it's like you had to make yourway onto the tour and that was the

(11:30):
that was the launch pad. Waswas the winner Tour in Florida? Well
there were two two ninety hole fivefive round events, one and what May
Right and one in November. Iremember Crenshaw won to one in November and
one of my my, my collegiateteammates and gunnamed Joey Dill's from Southern Hills

(11:54):
won the one at Myrtle Beach.But the one at Myrtle Beach I can
remember the played four courses. Therewas like six hundred players. Yeah,
yeah, thirteen thirteen tour cards.Yeah for six hundred players, right,
that's great odds, great odds andsomething too hold cut by just a shot
or two. But I'm like,man, this is this is really hard.

(12:18):
I mean to I mean top thirteen, the almost almost felt you're winning,
right exactly one when he got histour card, I believed that they
gave out eighteen spots, So thereweren't there wasn't a lot of access to
the tour. I mean the saidto have a lot of talent, a
lot of talent. Yeah, sookay, So so now you've got to

(12:39):
make a decision, right because obviouslyyou're not going to the reality is starting
to set in. I assume thatthat we're not going to chase this.
You know, when I could chasethis anymore. Winter I actually won a
tournament and but uh PGA offered thevery first this is the February of nineteen

(13:01):
seventy eight, the very first ResortProfessionals Workshop, three day workshop at Hilton
Head. And I had to borrowmoney from my grandparents. I forget what
it was, three hundred dollars plusI had to end my stay around there
for you know, three nights.And so I'm in a nice class,

(13:26):
you know, meet the people there, I would say, Pat the class
were my age, which was UStwenty six at the time. But I'm
sitting in the front road because thepanel, the instruction panel was the director
of golf at the Greenbrier, thedirector of golf at Sea Island, the

(13:46):
director of golf at Hilton Harbortown,and another guy named Bob Spence who was
a very prominent pro manager in theHilton Head area. And so I was
sitting in the row and I'm studyingthese guys like a like a defense attorney's
looking at right. I mean Igot eye contact with them, like I'm

(14:09):
here, you know. And sothe thing they always want to know is
how did your golf game? Andmy reply was, look, I know
how to play golf. I don'tknow how to get in the golf business,
you know. I mean, Imean, assistant pros not too hard,
but you got to make a living, and that's fairly making a living
at this time. Well, Iforget who it was, Eddie Thompson or

(14:33):
something, or assistant professionals. Iraised my hand, but I'm watching the
panel. I'm in the front row. Come to find out I was the
only assistant pro in the room.Oh my well, I mean if you
had to pay your own way here, you know, I raised my hand.
Well, you didn't pay your ownway here? How did you get
you know, I didn't even knowthat really the term expense account, you

(14:56):
know. And so so Eddie Thompsonasked me, you know what, what
what are you doing here? Isaid, well, I can play golf
in this time, so I justwant to learn how to get in the
business. I enjoyed my two summersat the Lake Placid Club resort very seasonal
though, and you know now I'mback to playing golf for the winter,
which I can do and man,but I really want to get in the

(15:22):
business. Well, he set meup. I was commuting back to the
main land wage at about thirty fiveforty minutes away because I could afford it.
I couldn't say there a Hilton Headright. Anyway, he set up
my room, invited me to dinnerevery night with it for their peers.
And I was in hog heaven andhe said, I haven't talking this winter,

(15:46):
but if you go to work theseguys at Glades Springs in West Virginia
and then and then in November comeand work back work for me at Sea
Island, and so uh d up. I was working the Players Champion a
two months later and the people fromGlade Springs called the inter view up here.

(16:11):
You know, can you be atthe airport the Stefob not the main
turmerl anyway, Jag got. Ifthey didn't pick me up, find me
up to West Virginia. Snow onthe ground and we go out and play
golf. The snow melted on thatSaturday. Next day Sunday, Scotia seventy

(16:33):
four, but half the dreams werecovered with snow. And you know,
okay, you're hired. I toldyou I could play golf. I just
anyway, you So I came towork that spring and what you mentioned Bob
Ford a moment ago with the firstAssistant Pros Championship that later that summer was

(16:55):
at Shanapon. Yeah, sure,sure, and I had a game so
I could still play it. Ithink we played thirty six holes in one
day and then eighteen the next ifI recalled it anyway, Bob Ford won
it easily, and I didn't knowball four at the time, and I'm
thinking this guy played golf right,and I was struggling with the side heel

(17:17):
lies and you know, I canjust barely see the top of the pin.
Uphills and downhill. You know,it was all you know, shaff
As I remember I played. It'spretty hilly. Yes it is great condition,
great condition, but a hilly course. And uh, anyway, that
was that was. I end upstaying at Glade Springs for six seasons,
five and a half years, andit then became the head pro as is

(17:41):
my boss took a job in Arkansas, so that's awesome. In Pittsburgh,
you know, right right right,So okay, so we're going to take
a break and we come back.We're going to talk about how you go
from now. Granted, Glade Springsis an awesome place, but I want
to talk about the next steps inyour career because it's a really neat story.
This is the Rich Combo Golf Show. Welcome back to the Rich Combo

(18:03):
Golf Show. We were joined byRobert Harris of the Greenbrier, the Greenbrier
Resort. Robert was kind of walkingus through his path and we kind of
ended at you know, six yearsat Glade Springs and you know, and
if it makes you feel any better, you know, Robert, you know,

(18:26):
you said mentioned Bob Ford. BobFord beats you that that makes you
one of eighteen bazillion he's beaten.So it's not a big deal, you
know, like if it makes youfeel better, you know, like you're
You're not the only You're not theonly one. So all right, so
you get the head professional position atGlade Springs and your boss had moved on
to Arkansas. So tell me whathappens next? Right with he hosted the

(18:51):
West Virginia Women's d Amateur in anumber of tournaments, and you know,
the usual member guests and that sortof thing. But a little state developments
go. They have their ups andtheir downs. And about nineteen eighty three
that was a big down. Anda friend of mine from Parkersburg Country Club
said, do you know anything downaround Jackson? Was all about to a

(19:15):
place called the Point verdi In withthe pawn of Vigra and the club and
two miles three miles and PGA toour headquarters now. And the PGA they
mailed the bulletins in those days.Yes, sign up for it and you
get and you couldn't wait for themail. You couldn't wait for the mail,
that's right, man. So youknow, things were looking very shaky

(19:37):
with my employer, and man,I got my resume ready as quick as
I could and mailed it anyway.They granted me an interview, so I
put down and interview over two anda half days, and at the end
of it, I left my leatherDolf shoes, my whole staff bag,

(20:00):
my clubs with the Caddy Masters,So I'm leaving these here. So,
mister Harris, there's one hundred andeighty three people applied for this job.
Oh, my god, I said, well, Charles, Charles Martin was
his name. If I don't comeback, Charles, you just you keep
the clubs in the shoes and yousell them, do whatever you want.
He looked at me with the funniestlook. I came back in about three

(20:22):
weeks, so, Charles, hesays, well, I'm not sure if
I'm happy to see you or not. Because he had he had access to
something that was before eBay too,he was gonna he was gonna get He's
get rich quick on your on yourleather golf shoes. You dang right,
he said, I had an offerfor five hundred dollars. I'm like,
okay, well sorry, that's neat. That's neat. So how long did

(20:45):
you stay there? I was therejust shy of eight years. And so
the cool thing was the Players Championshipwas just up the road, and I
got to work in the scoring tent. And you know, a lot of
the guys that played college golf withnow they're on the PGA Tour. Mike
Reid unnamed John Folks, who wonthe US Amateur Perker was a pumpeler player

(21:07):
in the in the eighties and Iplayed college again. He was at Arizona
State, and Bob Gilder and PatMcGowan, his son Michael, was the
first off of the open here thispast week. It was I got the
It was I was in the mainstream and got to keep pup with those
guys, and that was That wasfun and in a really dynamic place to
work, because the greater Jacksonville areahas a very rigorous pro am schedule.

(21:33):
So virtually I doubt that the prosplay every week, but there's an event
every week, so right, Soso let me go backwards a minute.
You played college golf with Mike Reid. Correct, he can. I was
a senior, he was a freshman, but he could. He could even
hit that straight when he was afreshman, right, I mean, because
I think I never missed it.I just think about a long part four.

(21:57):
He was his driver for in thosedays, two ten second shot and
I would be hitting driver six ironfrom one seventy seventy five or something,
right, And but that and Mikecame to the Green Bard later as we
hosted some the things for customers,and and he was it was a bit

(22:19):
of a longer hitter later on,and he won the Senior PGA there yeah,
he's uh yeah, they call itcalhim radar right, radar read right.
So okay, so so now howdo we make What do we do

(22:40):
next? What do we do?This is a fascinating story to me because,
like especially, I did not knowthe golf club leaving them behind and
the shoes leave me in them behind. That's that's That's a gutsy move,
man, That's a gutsy move.That's a yeah, I understand that.
I understand saying that. But sothat's pretty cool. So how long did

(23:02):
you stay there? I was thereseven years, seven months to the exact.
So in February, after the PGissue of nineteen ninety one, just
got a random call one of theexecutives at Greenborough, and the conversation was,

(23:23):
John Murphy is a long time hadprofessional retiring and already done our background,
and we'd like to have you comeup to the interview for the job
at Greenboro. So I did soin the middle of winter. Couldn't have
and couldn't have been colder, snowierand everything else. Anyway, that they

(23:47):
came back home, they you know, offered me the job, and I
negotiated a little bit because I wasdoing very well in Florida, and so
that worked out just fine, andstarted there versus the first of April nineteen
ninety one, and the first projectthat wanted me to take on was to
build the golf Academy. That wassort of next on their plans. And

(24:11):
fine, and so as I getthere in April, I played the Greenberg
Course several times because that was thepremier course. And the young men that
worked for me in the back roomwhen I was at Glade Springs played in
the West Virginia amateurs right, andthey all knew the Old White Course.
They had been playing the Old WhiteCourse for years. But the Greenbrier was

(24:32):
newly re intervated by Jack Nicholas andthe Ryder Cup was there in seventy nine.
But I didn't really know the otherI didn't know the Lakeside Course was
the third course, so I don'tknow. I hadn't been there just a
few weeks. It's a nice dayat the end of the day, seven
o'clock, eight o'clock in the afternoonor something. I take it all cards,

(24:52):
and you had to cross the roads, the US Route sixties, and
it wasn't necessarily a very busy,but anyway, I pulled up near the
road, safely back away from theroad, and an elderly lady coming down
the hill gets passed by a realloud pickup truck and it's scared of that's

(25:14):
your hand off the road or carthe car with two feet in front of
my golf cart luckily out back awayfrom the road ten or twelve feet.
And so I told my boss,I said, you know, I think
we should either build a couple ofbridges or a couple of tunnels. We're
going to kill somebody. Most peoplewould have pulled up closer to the road,

(25:36):
you know, and that would havebeen the end of that. Yeah.
And you you I don't care aboutthe tunnels and bridges. Man,
you're gone. It's over. Yeah, yeah, And we're on by CSX.
You know, a railroad safety isis the first ten priorities, right.
So really at first fall, Imean, they had a road builder

(26:00):
come in and serve the two tunnels. There were free crossings, but we
compromised put one tunnel in the middle. Anyway, so when your listeners make
it to the Greenbrier to go tothe tunnel, that my first project.
That's awesome. That's awesome. Ournewly mented head professional is now building tunnels.
This is awesome. This is aninteresting little direction here. So so

(26:22):
talk to me about the academy.How'd that go? I mean, obviously
it's it's gorgeous. If anybody hasn'tseen it, it's it's state of the
art. I realized that, youknow, state of the art today in
twenty twenty four is different than whenyou were doing it. But you were
state of the art then. Too. We had we had the John School.
So it took a few years.We took on various projects. So

(26:44):
I garnered some credit with the executivesat the Greenbrier and with the parent company
CS six, just managing these thingsand presenting them to them. And so
it was the third course. I'llget to the question. The Lakeside course
was a very awkward course to play, and it was built. It was

(27:07):
built, and I learned this later. It was built during the time when
the secret Government bunker was being built. And note, and Joe Lee had
his name on it, and hewas fine. But Dick Wilson, excuse
me, and Joe Lee workers didn'tright exactly. Dick Wilson's great golf courses,

(27:29):
bay Hill being the most notable,one of the most notable, and
a lot of the holes park Workswould go out one hundred and eighty yards
dog lets sharply and you'd have twoforty left to the green way that Dick
Wilson's going to design a golf coursethat way. So uh later in later
years, I had access to theblue prints and so forth. Well,

(27:51):
it was the Bunker Construction company buildingthe secret government bunker that built the golf
course and actually did. Wilson hadtop secret clearance during the Second World War
because he built he camouflaged airfields.Somebody in the government that knew he had

(28:11):
this clearance said, you know,hey, we're digging this big hole for
a place for Congress to go,and you've been a nuclear threat. How
about just do something pleminary, putyour name on it, and you know,
and he did. Anyway, Sowe were working with Bob Cupp at
the time, the architect, andhe came in and we changed a couple

(28:33):
holes and made room for the golfacademy. That was the problem. If
you have a golf academy that's toofar from your clubhouse. You just spent
a lot of money and logistics caringpeople back and forth, and then you've
got to you know, you gottahave utility services out there, plumbing,
et cetera, et cetera. Plusyou have staff settling people all the time.

(28:55):
So anyway, we located at theend of the rains, as you
know. So anyway, it's workedwell. The teaching professional there Greenbar now
is Stephen Cox and he's reprofitted thething and it is maybe the art once
again. This was our first providerof golf instruction there and they did a

(29:17):
great job for seven eight years atleast, so that all came to be.
That's the other like that course gotrenovated. We renamed it to the
Meadows, right. It's a veryvery playable, beautiful golf course. This
it is, you know what itis. And then you say that you
say that word because obviously, oh, white's awesome. I mean, it's
awesome. But you know, it'sfunny to me that, you know,

(29:40):
the longer I'm in this business andthe longer I talk to people that they
they need enjoyable. That needs tobe fun because the thing of it is
is if you really want to getbetter, yeah, you need to get
after good, really good golf coursesand you start to learn the difference between
a good hole bad hoole, whythe architect put it there, and this

(30:00):
and that and the other thing.But when when you're not, when you're
just trying to shoot ninety, tryingto break ninety, it's got to be
enjoyable. It's gotta be fun becausethis game's hard and it is. And
if you can add I appeel yeah. Really architectural style. Most people don't
express it, but they'll just sayI like that course, right, I

(30:22):
liked it, right right? Ilike that was fun. I like that
golf course. Did you see that? Did you see that? And it's
just and what they remember, youknow, it's funny. One of my
you talk about like people that youremember talking to. I had a I
went to business school too, andour playing guy was our playing teaching guy
was Willcox out of Chicago, TomWilcox, and and he said he he

(30:47):
set the course record two weeks ina row at wherever he was. And
he said, I shot sixty fivesixty four. And he said both times
the people I play with to playwith different people. And that was his
lessons. Play golf with different people, you know, don't don't get pigeonholed
into the same people. He's like, they all remembered this really weird shot,

(31:10):
Like if I hit a long bunkershot, they remembered that. I
mean, I shot sixty four ona sixty nine hundred yard golf course.
I'm and they just remembered I pitchedit over a bunker to like four feet
and made it like they remember that. And he goes, that blows my
mind that you say the same thing. They don't know what they're seeing,
but they know they're seeing something theylike, and it's just interesting. It's

(31:36):
just it's just really interesting. Sowhen you just did a renovation of the
old White had left of George outof Richmond and the CSX corporate office was
in Richmond at the time. They'rein Jacksonville now. But you know that
always make fun. You know,they go over the capitol expenditures, three

(32:00):
new locomotives, you know, youknow, eighty million each check renovate the
all white golf course. What areyou doing to that plan? Because they
were many on the board were golfersand they were in the locomotives, the
locomotive, but you mentioned golf course. We're stopping right now, we're going

(32:22):
to talk about this. I'll spendeighty million dollars on a big machine,
but you start messing with that thing, We're going to have a long conversation
about this was my first power points, you know, so nervouses could be
you know, presenting to you know, the board of directors at CS six
in Richmond. But anyway started theprocess and the course, and then it

(32:47):
was renovated later after the big floodin twenty sixteen, but Pluff the George
did the bulk of the work tobring it back. So I got to
imagine that that that being on theground floor of of of obviously modifying or
renovating two golf courses has got tobe like a really steep learning curve,

(33:08):
right, I mean it's got tobe one of those ones you just sit
and listen, very challenging. It. The good thing about the Greenbriers,
you know, full time at thetime, had a full time historian and
lots of records, not not theoriginal prints or anything like that, but

(33:30):
a lot of photographs and boy andand some were maybe taken from a balloon
or something, so he had someaerial photographs and like any golf course,
the greens will shrink over time justsimply because of moment patterns. And it's
uh so what Lefter did and andand the planning part of it took many

(33:52):
months. I mean, he drewit up pretty quick. But then you
know, here's what the photograph is, you know. And we cured things
that the horse trails used to crossthe golf course three or four pieces,
and or would run parallel to someof the golf holes. Well, so
we had to add a couple ofbridges so that we could continue the equestrian

(34:14):
tradition that the green and put safetyin there as well. It's doing exactly
do the expansion and good when yougot horses across in front of you exactly.
So many of those problems were curedwith Lester's work. That's neat.
So now you have to, youknow, you work on the golf course

(34:36):
out of it. But when wecome back from this break, we're gonna
we're going to talk about, likeyou know, obviously I want you to
kind of we're going to kind ofdelve into a little bit into into what
the what the green brier is,I mean, is the essence of it.
And we're going to talk about someof the famous people that that you
were fortunate enough to kind of rubelbows with, and one in particular that

(34:58):
I know you spent a lot moretime with, and others. This is
the This is the rich Combwell GolfShow, and we'll be right back.
Welcome back to the rich Comboll GolfShow. We are going to continue with
our guests, Robert Harris. AndRobert has extensive unbelievable experience in the golf
business and and great stories obviously aswe've heard, and and you know,

(35:22):
maybe before we're done today, I'mgoing to maybe tell the story of the
first time I ever laid eyes onRobert Harris. Is an amazing story to
me. But so Robert, tellme exactly what, in your opinion,
what the Greenbrier signifies, Well,this tradition, and we'll just provide the

(35:47):
total comprehensive offering of leisure. Iwant to say, a giant country club.
Know obviously the golf and tennis,now the pick a ball, but
the equestrian uh, you know,the swimming pools, the gun club,

(36:08):
you know, and and so there'slike twenty two apartments of activities and there's
something for everyone. Because if it'sif it becomes a tradition to come to
the Greenbrier, and many noted executivesthey pump into other people they know they're

(36:32):
at different levels, and the sixdegrees of separation becomes like the one or
two degrees. It's just the desirefor a safe play with traditional activities that
are that are kept, that arekept modern and up to dates. That's
that's neat. So obviously, howmany years were how many years did you

(36:54):
work there? Thirty years seven months, So okay, not to wear counting
days, but I'm going with that. So thirty days, seven months.
And so obviously great golf has hadand and famous, famous people are are

(37:16):
rolling around the Green Briar because youknow, like you said, it's it's
a place you have to go.So who's the most famous person you ever
got to meet? And I knowthat's a hard question to ask, but
the famous like not just in golf, but like out like experience wise.
Oh, I'll name two. Iplayed golf with Margaret Thatcher, so'than Sir

(37:39):
Dinnis and a lefty terrible golfer greatis swearing but laughed a lot. That's
good, Like you know he hitsthe bad shot. Oh my God,
can you believe that he'd laughed himself. That was fun. I mean it

(38:00):
was a fun day, right,A real gentleman too. The other in
the fall. Every year the automotiveindustry comes up to Detroit and has a
conference in October when the leaves areall in bloom. And one year the
guest speaker the whatever. The keynotespeaker was Leiah Coca, and he was

(38:23):
Lei Cocha was still in the newsa lot after saving Chrystler. He comes
into the golf oub and he said, I was supposed to get a blessing
from Robert Harris. So and anyway, and his son, who was about
my age at the time, wegot to the practice team. It was

(38:46):
great. It was great thirty minutesor so. And then he he a
son go play a few holes,and they come back about an hour later,
and I'm kind of looking for him. So he comes into the golf
club and outside with culture of exchangeand so forth, he called every attendant
by name, thank you, Roddy, thank you, Eddie, thank you.

(39:07):
Keith Walks in the locker room,does the same, the pro shop,
everybody by name. It was themost amazing thing I've ever seen in
my life. I mean, thepeople are just they were on cloud nine
because here's this national figure, rightand he's just calling everybody. He was
a club member there and see themfour days a week, and it was

(39:31):
one of the most remarkable things thatI've ever had experienced or witnessed. That's
amazing. That's amazing. So okay, so let's go, let's go.
Let's go on to the into theGulf world. Okay, who's the most
who's the most famous player you everplayed with? Uth ever played with?

(39:52):
Gosh? Yeah, well Nick Faldovisited. He played a couple of holes.
That's a guy that can hit itstraight. That's a guy who was
really good. Yeah, he's reallyright on the plane, you know,
very simple. I was partners inthe summer before I went to b y

(40:16):
U. I qualified for a nationaltournament and my partner is this kid from
La Jolla, California, became CraigStadler anyway, and he came to the
Green Bar many years later. Isyou know I'm going to remember him,

(40:37):
He's not going to remember sort ofthing. I played a lot of early
golf and early the junior golf andprofessional golf with Mark McCumber. Mark.
Mark won the Western Open a coupleof times, he won Your Out a
couple of times, he won thePlayers Championship, and he won the what
is now the FedEx Cup right right, it's Olympic Club one year. So

(41:02):
Mark Mark and our childhood friends,and I keep up with his son,
Tyler, who's played the corn FerryTour. Now, so let me all
right, so let's go back toyour most famous golf resident at the Greenbrier
would have been Sam Snead, right, I mean, oh yeah, okay.
So so for those who don't know, you know, and we're in

(41:28):
West Virginia, I mean, I'min Wheeling, and you know, Sam
Snead's won what's nine I think ninewesternsiw Open something like that, and he
won, actually won Wheeling Country Cluband and so he was the I don't
know how they don't you tell mehis title, but he was like the
celebrity professional at the Greenbrier. Yeah, professional America, there you go.

(41:52):
So so, so he he playeda lot of golf. He hung around
and not hung around, but hekind of hung around down there. And
so tell me, like, nowyou got to you got to play a
lot of golf. With them,a little bit of golf with him,
and a little bit older. Hewas a little bit older then because he's

(42:13):
born in nineteen nineteen twelve, he'sa little older then. But like that
guy was unbelievably good. He's anathlete. Yeah, there it is,
there, it is. He was. He was bigger and stronger than anyone
else. And the nineteen twelve classincludes Byron Nelson and Ben Hogan. Right,

(42:37):
pretty good, pretty good birth year, right there, Pretty good birth
year right there. So the veryfirst year I'm there, So the golf
Academy wasn't going to get built.The tunnels were being built. And in
one of the marketing meetings, weneed to get Sam speed back here,

(42:58):
and he turns and looks. I'mlike, okay, see this coming.
So it was in the fall ofthe year, maybe October, and I
go to the our sister, youknow, are not ownership, but the
homestead in Virginia. The arranging gamewe played the lower Catscades as it was

(43:22):
called, and and he's tough asthe tough as nails, and apparely edged
him out. And he wasn't happyabout that. He's forty years older than
me. You know, they're thirtyyears older than me, and and he's
anyway, he said, we'll allcome back, and so and so all

(43:45):
the people that he had some riffwith. Nineteen seventy three was his last
year. You know, they hadpassed away. He said, okay,
So his agent and family and soforth, they want us to build a
museum. So we're in the resort. I don't. So it took a
whole year, and we remodeled thegolf club and put tons of his memorabilia

(44:10):
in there. So it's say Sneedsat the golf club, and it's really
a living museum to the life andtimes of Sam Snead and and in one
of the rooms kind of an obliqueway, having played college golf at BYU
and played the University of Utah matchesand so forth. The Western Open was
played at Salt Lake Country Club oneyear back in the fifties. You know,

(44:32):
you think of the Western Open inChicago, right right exactly Chicago as
far west as we're going. There'sa cover of Golf World magazine, you
know, fifty six, fifty seven. And but he was he's just quite
the athlete. Man. We wehad a big brokerage firm there and they

(44:53):
had agreed to pay Sam ten thousanddollars for you know, a forty five
minute exhibition. Well, there's supposedto be You're supposed to do this at
one o'clock. Then I got tothey don't show two, three, four,
They didn't show up till almost fiveo'clock. And it was what turned
out to be a big merger.Oh okay, the broker's firms. And

(45:17):
so next thing I know, Ican't find you. He's out. I
have to go on the golf course. He's playing with his peers, who
are thirty five handicappers. Damn,they're waiting. None you up here,
he says, I'm three up andtwo up. He's playing these guys for
twenty dollars Nassaw. I said,what you're getting paid ten thousand? He

(45:39):
comes back. I had really almosthad to get his clubs out of his
hand. He goes, he wantedto play with his buddies, right does
he signed? We had Greenbrook historybooks for the forty or fifty ladies and
gentlemen that were there, and hesigns those. He says, pick me

(45:59):
out. He played the last threeholes with his pigeons, he called them,
and he's a. I clipped themfor one hundred each. He was
happier about the one hundred. Yeah, of course, right, I love
that. But competitive, oh mygoodness, competitive. Hogan won the fifty

(46:22):
four Open and Oakmont fifty three.Nineteen fifty three, you wont Oakmont,
Yeah, nineteen fifty three. Hebroteed seventeen sixteen, seventeen eighteen, finished
three three three fifty three correct?And what Sam was on the first tee,
of course, the nice greens rightthere by the teeth. Hogan's making

(46:45):
the turn because he's t and ohthey didn't they didn't pair them together,
right, Oh he was. Hewas so mad about that. And yeah,
I think he came in. Hemade the turn pretty good, but
then he three putted the Jill temptsin the up till eleventh and that he
was he was gone, and hewas done by then. Yeah, he

(47:05):
said, why would they perish togetheranyway? Yeah, I don't know the
answer. Yeah, And we'll neverknow the answer to that because because not
only not only they had gone,but like the guy who did the parents
is probably Joe Die and he's beengone for I don't know, six hundred
and twelve years, So we're notgonna you know, we're not going to
get that answer. But so tellme what you're doing now. I mean,

(47:27):
I know, I know we're goingto get together that you know,
it's fortunate enough to run in eachother to live event, you know,
in August. But tell me howyou're feeling your time now. Yeah,
So the last probably fifteen years ofmy career, I bet I took on
when the PGA Tour event came thethe PGA Tour, they have a plut

(47:50):
management company, so they came intothe golf department, which was just fine.
It made a lot of the coordinationwith the PGA Tour event go smoother
simply, you know, they're allpart of one team, the tour team
and the tour course management team.And so I took over the other eighteen
departments of recreation, which is achallenging experience really. From that point on

(48:13):
about twoy ten, I really didn'tplay much golf. I mean, I
certainly didn't practice any So now youknow, we just lived eight miles away
in Louisbourg, West Virginia and overin practice every afternoon, cargo play a
few holes or both. That's all. And uh, I just you know,
it's it's it's uh. I stillget a lot of good shots,

(48:37):
but I get a lot of badshots. Now. Yeah. So you
know you mentioned you mentioned the tourevent and and that actually segues right into
two. Well, I used toI used to come down and we did
that that pro am. We'd getthe PGA professionals and they would go with
the tour player and they'd go withthem and they do the shotguns start and

(49:00):
it was it was awesome, Itwas really cool thing. I brought all
my all the guys who worked forme in the bag room Uniontown Country Club
down there, and they got tohang out with you know, on the
range and stuff like that. Butthis is this is the first time that
I ever actually saw you at workand I you stood there in the middle
of that fairway and we started theshotgun from the fairway and you had the

(49:22):
megaphone, microphone, whatever mechanism youhad, and they went out and you
stood there and it was hot,and you stood there in a coat and
tie and you gave the instructions andI thought to myself, that guy is
a golf professional. That guy isa golf and I grabbed every one of
the kids that worked for me.I said, that's a good That's what.

(49:43):
If you ever ever ever wonder whata golf professional looks like, take
a long look at that right there, because that's a golf professional. And
you shook everybody's hand. You gotto smile on your face, and you
were just happy to have people happyaround you. And I never I've never
forgotten that. And and I I'llbe honest with you know, there are
days like I did. We dida small event. I gotta go back

(50:05):
and do it now at Willing CountryClub. But but like it's it was
a little disorganized, and you know, I blame the other people, not
me, you know, obviously,but but but it's just but it's like
it's like, you know, doyou think that the people like you and
like Ford? And you say yourself, you know what, now you have
to be professional because it's easy toget upset and bothered. But I always

(50:27):
think back to that time because itwas confusing. People were going everywhere,
and you just stood right in themiddle and like, this is what we're
gonna do. We're gonna figure itout, okay yourself. Yeah, and
and and you and you you youdid that day and you always have,
so I wanted to before I'm done, I just wanted to say thanks.
I appreciate you doing this. Iknow it came out of the blow and

(50:49):
and and you know, and andI'm gonna see you in six weeks or
so, right, seven weeks andand we'll mess around a little bit down
there on the practice range. Butbut Robert, I cannot tell you how
much I appreciate it. Thank you, rich I appreciate the opportunity, and
thank you for the kind words.And maybe we'll get a touch a trophy.
That's exactly right. That's exactly right, Robert Harris. And this is

(51:14):
the rich Comwall Golf Show.