The Rich Conwell Show - June 28, 2025

PGA of America President Don Rea joins Rich to discuss the growth of the program, what's being done to make sure grassroots locations thrive, and more.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Rich Comogo Show. This week, we are
honored to be joined by with by with I can
never get that right, the PGA of America President Don Ray.
This is this is actually literally an honor. I mean,
the guy's president of our association thirty almost thirty one
thousand members, largest support organization in the country, and he

(00:25):
was nice enough to jump in and spend some time
with us. So first off, Don, thank you very very.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Much, my pleasure. Yeah, it's definitely with. We are with
each other today talking and believe it or not, the
numbers just came out. You know, we're like over eight thousand.
I know that's one of our questions we're going to
talk about today, but eight thousand associates and actually the
total number now is over thirty two thousand.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
There we go, thirty two thousand. See see, you're better
at math than I am. So all right, so let's
start off with the program that is near and dear
to me, Don and I actually have done five sessions
now in my fifth one now will start the sixth
one in two weeks or three weeks other and that

(01:09):
is the Hope Program, which is helping our patriots everywhere.
Can you kind of give me an update on that
on that program.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, you know, thanks for doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Obviously, it's a tremendous program. This relationship we have with
the VA and and them allowing us, you know, to
work with their veterans and in o case, some people
don't know part of that. There was a couple of
things that they said, Listen, we want to make sure
this happens if we're going to allow our doctors to
literally prescribe golf lessons with PGA golf professionals. One as

(01:40):
you know, who trained an adaptive golf and that's and
that's obviously amputees, but it's also PTSD, it could be
any of that stuff. Another thing they said is ken
had more than five students for PGA Training Professional because
we want to make sure there's enough attention given to
the veterans and you know, and then they said that,
you know, there's got to be some form of payment.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
We don't everybody if.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
The PJ professional. We want the pg of America to
subsidize as programs as best we possibly can. And it's
just not a program for free, because they realize that
we are practitioners, and you know, there should be some
part of payment. Now you and I both know. You
know these PJA Hope programs, there are six to eight
week programs, and that's where the PJ subsidizes those. But
guys like you and I, we do them all the time, right,
I mean, you know our PJ pros. We have five

(02:23):
of them certified in PJ Hope at Augusta Ranch, and
they do programs year round, whether we get paid or not.
Most of the time it's for free. But certainly, you know,
even when we get some of the subsidition from the
PJ of America, we don't hit them on too much
of that because we just believe in the program. We
would lab and rather allow some of those suns kick
back to other programs or maybe just starting in my

(02:44):
own section. But you know, we definitely we start seventeen
thousand veterans, and you know, we'll always want to serve
more than's twelve thousand on the wait list, which scares us, right,
I mean, over twenty over twenty five maybe veterans commit
suicide every day, and getting them out of the house,
back into society and using golf to do that is
just the thing of beauty. We certainly were starting to

(03:06):
over promise a little bit on that, you know, as
we had those veterans in the VA said that email
out which they all signed up.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
One we had to get more more PG professionals trained,
which I think we've done. You know, they're there. We're
doing a better job of that for certain, But we did,
you know, in all honesty, you know, rich, we were
starting to run out of money on the side of
the PGA of America. You know, I think programs like
this there should be an effort to endow these programs
and then also make sure.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
That they're growing.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
There was so much of a demand that we invested
a lot of money in growing it, and we need
to start endowing it, putting it into a fund so
that we can sustain this and perpetuity. So we did
kind of pump the brakes.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
A little bit when Jenny came in Jenny Lewis, our new.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Executive vector of PGA, reached someone who understands five o'
one c three, said listen, we've got to modify our
approach a little bit. Let's not over promise it under deliver.
And we reached out to our sections and said, listen,
we need a little help with this as we kind
of better understand our strategy POM going forward as an association.
So ask some of the sections.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Like, hey, can we give you a little bit of
less money? Think you can do it on your own?

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Hey, golf professionals, you know, can you get some sponsors?
So right now we're kind of in a holding pattern
as we get our arms around the expectations of it all,
which you know, for me, somebody who's like you and me,
we put our blood, sweat and soul into this thing
and you hate to see, you know, maybe the piece
of America, say, will hold up for a second. But
I think if we're going to be the right fiduciar
aias of this program and stewards of this program, I

(04:34):
think it was the right move. And now we're just
leaning on our sections to help us to this moment
in time where we kind of gather in a nice
strategy and work towards the future of growth and endowment.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I think that's probably a pretty wise move. Is
that you know, long term, you know, short term benefit,
long term sustainability, so you know, and it is important
and obviously you know it as well as I do.
But I'm telling you, man, I've seen it, you know.
I mean, I've got you know, I have ugly, ugly,
ugly number of twenty two point whatever. And I don't
know how you make point of a person but a

(05:06):
day and and you just you know, and I and
I'll be honest with that. Last one I did was
on Monday night. It was ninety eight degrees outside and
and I had done six I had done six sessions
at Junior Golf and I had done it ladies clinic,
and those guy's walked in and I'm like, yeah, you
know what, I'm not. I'm not so tired anymore. I'm
all right, we'll be okay, you know. And fifty fifty

(05:27):
fifty eight minutes flew by, you know, and I got,
you know, and we got the ball airborne and findable,
and somebody laughed somewhere along the way. So it's it's
a heck of a lot better than the alternative of
that twenty two number we talked about, so you know anything,
you know. So I and I'm happy to hear that that,
you know, we are going to work to endoubt it

(05:48):
because I think I think a long reaching thing would
be great, especially with obviously and I'm not going to
get into politics. As we get more and more involved
in the world, we're going to need more and more
programs like this, and so that's awesome. So let me
jump off of that and then I'm gonna kind of
zip through these pretty quickly because you know, so talk
to me about obviously the big but I don't know

(06:10):
if everybody knows this. We moved the PJA of America
headquarters moved to Frisco, Texas. I think it's just because
you wanted to hang out in Texas. But we'll get
into that a different day. But so talk to me
about how much money do we I mean, I know
you can just tell me how much money we spent
to do this. I mean, just what do we do?

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, I mean what, Let's just my golf course is
in Arizona. Brother, I'm gonna golf Frish. It's just like
everybody else.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
And no, but I think you want to hang out
in Texas. I'm just telling you right now. I think
you like Texas well.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well, Hey, at our home, I love being there when
all the students are coming through that bottom floor and
and you know, every future PGA professional will have to
go through at front door, you know, level one is
still virtual. Level two and Level three are in person
at that facility every time we do have a board
meeting there and we try to have a bunch of
them there.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
We always drop in on the click as officers and
ask your questions of the future PGA golf professionals, and
it's certainly a great thing.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
We are closing down the offices in Florida and move
from everybody to Frisco. That took a little bit of time.
You're kind of moving an ice cube there, and you
don't want to lose too many good people. And so
by the end of this year those offices will be closed.
Same thing with the New York City offices. There'll still
be some people in New York City because that's where
you know, a lot of the big deals happen, and
so we need to have people there, but that office
getting closed out and everybody will be there. It's our home.

(07:28):
It's not a headquarters. It's a home quarters of the
building itself, you know what I mean. And it don't
hold me to exactly to these numbers, but you know,
it's a forty million dollar building. We own that building.
We don't own the golf course. We don't own. That
was omni. You know, they put in the Rolling family
five hundred million dollars to build a golf course, build
a hotel. We certainly brought the ocean front property, the

(07:49):
PJ brand, a billion dollar brand of there. But we
also got this ability to start a campus. You think
if you were ever in Florida and you maybe did
your classes there, you know, some of our students who
went to Port Saint Lucy. You know, we never really
had a definitive explanation of our why, whether that's a
new member, a current member, or a partner that we're
trying to build a relationship with.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
What is our why?

Speaker 2 (08:11):
And so the building's about forty million dollars subsidies coming
from Frisco. There's actually, you know, there's an employee census
that we delivered a Frisco to say, hey, are we
moving everybody there? And the answer is yes. So some
of those subsidies are based on the employee census there,
you know, in that subsidy. You know, like I said,
I'll get some of the numbers wrong, but it was

(08:32):
well over ten million dollars. And so at the end
of the day, we got this four story building we
can house everybody there. We've got the teaching and coaching center.
We have six hundred and sixty acres of why you know,
the PG of America exists, which is to get people
to love this game as much as we do. And
so when you look at a tour competting green ten holes,
a lit golf, two championship golf courses, you know the

(08:54):
Northern Texas sections right next to us teaching and coaching
and the ability to have a campus so that we
can encourage our alumni, every PGA member out there to
be a booster to get people into this game and
to become PG members. And I absolutely think it was
well spent money. Everybody can get to Dallas where it's
hard to get into West Palm but easy to get
into DFW.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
You are correct, You are correct, all right, So we'll
jump out. So jump out of that one into the
next one. So talk to me about talk to me
about the no. I know people know this and I
was actually as were to you. I was given my
PGA membership under the logo of the Crest, and I
and be very honest with you, and I'm assuming you

(09:36):
do too. You love the Crest. It was awesome. I
mean I felt like I was royalty and so but
we changed it and we rebranded it, and so tell
me why you said you are why so tell me
that one.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, I love the press too. I still got a
bunch of shirts that have it on there, right and
I know a lot of TG professionals are going to
wear that and go ahead, you know what I mean,
there's no logo police is going to say why you
were in the old logo, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Where the logo where?

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Proudly even if you're certified and you love those two stars,
obviously we stepped away from that and went to five
stars as a master professional. But Rich, you know, really
what it came down to is, you know when the
tour was setting that deal up with Tiff and June
sixth happened. I'll never forget that day. That was the
day the announcement came and we were caught by surprise.
And then when you see Lester Holt on NBC News
saying the PGA is now signed to deal with PIFF

(10:28):
and they used our logo when it wasn't us, it
was the tour Rick. I can't tell you how many
veterans called me and said, I'm done with PJ. Hope
you guys cut a deal with Saudi, don't you remember
nine to eleven. I'm like, hey, that's not us. My
own daughter had friends at her at college saying why'd
your dad sign this deal with the PGA with Tiff
And she's like, that's the PGA Tour, not the PG
of America. I think something. You know, we all know

(10:49):
as PG professionals. You tell somebody you're a PGA member,
they're like, hey, do you know Tiger do you play
every week? And we kind of laugh it off, and
then we try to explain that, you know, we're club professionals.
We get people to get at Airborne to your point,
we help veterans kids.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
We love this game.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
It's money certainly comes, you know, we've all been successful,
but we don't do it for money.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
We do it for love.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
But we had a problem because there were legislators looking
to take away the not for profit status of all
not for profits that are involved in golf, and listen,
we do have four profit entities in the PG of America.
We pay our fair share of income taxes on those
for profit entities. But you know, it'd be nice not
to have to pay taxes on certain things, because then
we can use that money to grow the game. At
the end of the day, we are five to one

(11:29):
C six trade organization, the largest in the world, as
you said, and we're also a C three where you know,
we try to grow the game through PGA works, PJ
Junior League, and PJA hope.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
And so when this.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Happened and legislators were not understanding what we were doing
and the difference between us and the tour, We're like, okay,
we got an issue here, Like this is getting as
serious because if only eight percent of the population plays golf,
and only a certain percentage of that eight percent even
can understand the difference between the tour and the pg
of America, what does that mean for the future of
our partners? The unattended consequences of legislatives, you know, issues

(12:03):
that come down, bills that turn into laws.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
Now, what are we going to do? We hired an.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Outside we're all in echo chambers. We hired an outside company,
say help us with this. You know, they came back
and said, Okay, we think there's three things here that
you need to do. You needed to find that you
were of America that's it, are you of Yes, absolutely,
to find who you are. You know, we we we're
thirty thousand plus men and women who are small business owners.
We're out there growing the game. Golf is more to

(12:27):
charity than all the other major league sports combined.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
And so you had to tell that story.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
And then they said, if everybody's going to talk about money,
the opposite of that is love. You guys needed to
find that you're not about money, that you're about love.
Where the slogan we love this game? Now we're like, okay,
how do you roll that out? We need to create
a logo, We need a campaign, we need to hire
a company, We need to get this out. If we're
going to do it, the Ryder Cup's coming up.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Remember when that happened.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
We were moving right into the room Ryder Cup five
hundred million impressions and so yeah, I think, you know,
sometimes people felt it was a little bit rough. We
did it as best we could, created that commercial of
we love this game with Michael Block and rich and
Joanna co and everybody.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
And we went for it.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
The response to all the focus groups we did coming
back obviously analyzing everything that we did and the money
we spent. Is it having the impact on the legislators,
the non golfers and the golfers, And what we came
back was, yes, it's working. Of America is popping. This
logo is better on digital. You know, I love the
logo to your point, I love that christ Brother, but
it's hard to make it look good on digital. It's

(13:26):
hard to make it look good when you're on step
and repeat boards behind, you know, player interviews and so
you know, I believe it's worked successfully when I was
at National Golf Data's past, you know, Mark May and
explaining to them we are PJ of America thirty two thousand.
We don't do this for money, we do it for
Love's that message is working rich So I know some
people are a little upset about it, but I can

(13:48):
tell you when it comes to the non golfers, the
legislators are partners, are endemic partners. The messages reaching people
in the way we wanted to, which is telling our
story of why not everything else?

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Well, you know that that that and that's that completely
makes sense. That three prototype make completely makes sense. So
then you flip around and you say, okay, so then
we're going to talk about in that, Okay, change the
logo and what the value of your So so let
me ask you this. I say, I'm Joe. I'm Joe
PGA member, Okay, and I'm I'm certified, you're you're, you're,

(14:22):
you're the president. I'm just some guy sitting out here, right,
But how do you say to somebody the value of
my membership? Okay? So we pay six hundred bucks, seve
hundred bucks whatever it is here, right, So the value
of it? So talk to me about.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, gotcha, you know, I think you know one. To
your point, it's different in every section.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Right.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Remember, whatever a PGA member pays across the nation in
their section, only one hundred and fifty of that comes
to the PJ of America.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
The rest stays in.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
That section to help grow the programs that that section
is investing in. Whether it's whether it's one or all
of them, PJJ, PJ works, PJA hope, whether it's you know,
all the things that they do. It Typically the tournament
programs in our sections are all funded by the partners
they have in those sections, but that membership money that
comes in is to make sure that the staff at
that section level is doing what it is for the

(15:14):
section for the section. Remember, the pg of America is
not the p of America, is just a collection of sections.
It's like the United States of America. There is no
such thing as the USA. It's the United States.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
It's all all of.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Our states together going we are America. The same is
for the PGA of America. We're just a collection of
our forty one sections. We need to make sure that
the money from the PG of America gets down to
the section member.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
How do we do that?

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Something called ADP money. Well over two hundred and something
thousand dollars goes to each section to help them run
their business so they can serve the members. Where it
happens at the section level. That's everything's local. So when
someone tells me what's the value of the membership.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
I think of a warm buffet quote.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
You know, prices what you pay, values what you get. Yes,
you're paying a price, and there's a due that comes
into that, and we have to have some kind of
do is to keep it going because of IRS rules
and you know, getting into the definition of a nerment
and stuff like that. But I would say values what
you get. What I would say, okay, the value of membership.
But you know what's kind of funny is one of
the best benefits we give members say it all the

(16:13):
time is getting into Augusta Nationals. Okay, don't let's not
mess that up. Everybody likes going there, so that's certainly
something good education. Are you diving into the educational opportunities,
the three tracks and becoming specialized, becoming certified maybe gets
a mass professional. We need to do a good job
of making sure that when you go on these educational
journeys and you get to the top, is that rewarding

(16:33):
you financially? What's your compensation package look like? I would
also say about, you know, getting involved in your section.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Have you been to a seven R Have you done it?
Or have you been to the animal meeting?

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Are you volunteering? Are you engaged in the very things
that you know? If you're an American citizen, you say
you should vote, you should get back to your community.
As the Piece of America member, same thing, you should vote,
you should get back to your committee, the board of directors.
Even me, I was an elected official, and to your point,
maybe that's just the delegates of the section, but the
members elect the delegates of that section. So just like

(17:04):
the United States of America vote wisely to make sure
the representation in that national boardroom or even me as
your president, you know, is serving you. So I think
the value is there. You just got It's not just
a magazine. It's not even just getting into Augusta National.
It's making sure you're engaging at the section level for
the grants for PJ Hope, for PG Junior League. We

(17:25):
find that our PGA professionals that when we leverage the
marketing assets of the PG of America and push down
these leads to PG coach to help you with PJ Hope,
to leverage the brand of PJ Hope at your section
level and at your little facility like me and Augusta Ranch.
Are you doing that PJ Junior League a PG, you know,

(17:45):
what are you doing with PJ works and PJ Junior League.
These are things that can help you make money. And
then on top of that, I would say deferred compensation.
It's going to miss guys like you and me, brother.
But if PG members on their app taking credit for
the things that they're doing, which is growing game. The
IRIS has allowed us to kick back money. You can
get up to fifteen hundred dollars a year's We've done

(18:05):
it twice. Now, I hope there's a lot of members
that have three thousand dollars sitting in their account. And
you know, just do the math. If you go fifteen
hundred dollars a year, plug it into some Google you know,
an equation or you know.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
One of those it's calculators.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Fifty all yeah, you know, yeah, those are yeah, thank you.
I'm I'm not a CFP, I'm a PGA. But so
if you you know, you started twenty three, you put
in a good twenty five year career, fifteen hundred dollars
a year, I think it's going to be pretty big
when you get there. So the first compass something we're
proud of.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Perfect. Okay, So after this break, we are going to
talk more about pushing down to the sections and we
will continue our conversation with the President of the PJ
of America, Don Ray. This is the Rich Como Golf Show.
Welcome back to the Rich Como Golf Show. We are
joined with Don Ray, president of the PJ of America,

(18:55):
and we're just going through some rapid fire questions. I
want that Don is very, very willing to answer obviously,
and so we just talked about the value of the
membership and how our dues go back down to the
section with the exception of pretty much a smaller percentage.
So so tell me how don how we're getting all

(19:19):
how how are we expanding the money to the grassroots
in the section. Let's just I'll just ask it that way.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah? Absolutely, you know that's our hot right. I mean,
you know every meeting and some boardrooms do this, so
you know we we do it certainly at FRISCO. It's
like you have that empty chair in the room and say, Okay,
whatever decision we make today, how's it going to impact
that professional you know here or see that's that's not
in that chair. We're here to serve them. That's that's
why we exist. PJA doesn't have any money.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
We have.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Our money is the members money, and we got to
find a way to get it to them. And and
at the same time thread the needle on Nerman and
IRS rules and things like that. So you know, I think,
you know, sometimes there's members out there, and you know,
there's there's guys on and they know just enough information
and you know what I think about rich sometimes is
like get Augusta Ranch.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
You know my golf course.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
I know I talk about it a lot, but hey,
that's the only golf course I've ever been.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Really.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
I went up at the golf coviing and then I
came back. But I love being the golf pro there.
I loved everything it does. And I've got members at
Augusta Ranch who questioned why there's lower areas that are
wet and where am I putting the money in the facility,
And they wonder why I do this or why I
do that? Why don't you move the driving range front
and back instead of back to front, and why do
you invest in top tracer? I wanted to hit off
the grass and I need to listen to every single

(20:33):
one of them. But I also know and I hope
they understand that what we're trying to do is make
Augusta Ranch better so that their value is there when
they play it and that they're happy most of the time.
And sometimes they're not going to like everything.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
I do there.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
The same thing is it the PG of America. We
have to do things that bring brand awareness that is
outside of even the algorithm of a PG professional on Instagram.
What can I do to tell the ninety percent of
Americans that don't play golf that we're good people and
golf is the engine to good And so if that
is getting in front of PGA Works and getting Nina

(21:05):
Kohler to be the chair of our PGA Reach Foundation
and her basically donating whistling straights for our PGA Works
Collegiate Championship, which is a national championship that was on
national television for HBCUs minority serving institutions, Hispanic serving institutions.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
We need to do that.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
If I can, as the PG of American build relationships
with the VA so that I can get a program
like Hope going, I need to do it. If I
can create a program and actually buy it. Right, we
bought PG Junior League from Bob Longmire and then took
it to the next level. So the PGA professionals can
make some money with a aspirational event at our home
on the West Coast at Philds Ranch.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
We need to do that.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
So what am I spending money on?

Speaker 3 (21:44):
We have a major on every tour.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Now, what does that allow us to do to run
commercials during that tour? You know right now, the KPM
Jesus happened last week. Did you see the commercial about
why we want to be a golf professional? There were
several times that in front of an audience of whoever's
watching the KPMG event. I'm sure that serves a lot
of different people. They got to see those commercials. Same
for PGA Championship, same for PGA Junior League Championship, same

(22:06):
for the Senior PGA Championship, and same for the PGA
Works Collegiate Championship. Getting commercials out there hopefully creating leads
down to PGA coach and showing that the PGI of
America is who we say we are, which is we
just get people to play the game. We love it
when people play more golf. We love people who love golf,
and that's what we do. So I understand why they're
a little confused, And don't forget our sixteen PGM universities.

(22:28):
I think we do a lot of good job there.
It's our job is to make sure that the next
generation of PGA professionals are well educated, understand the craft
of being a PGA golf professional, and so aligning with
these universities to make sure that they're growing up. The
next generation of talent is important, but at the end
of the day, the focus has to be how does
it make the PGA member's life better? And I feel

(22:50):
like I can connect those dots if anybody asked me
a question of like, why do you spend money over here?
Now that being said, rich I'll end with, of course
we have to sunset programs sometimes the fifth Friday, Agusta
Ran isn't working on Tuesday, so we move it to Friday.
I can't stick my head in the stand and go, well,
we've always done it, so we're always going to do it.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
That's not right.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
And so we always constantly looking at the programs at
the pg of America. Which one should we sunset so
we can get those resources delivered to a new program
that might be bigger and better.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Okay, that makes absolute sense. That makes absolute says that
folds down into that. So now, okay, so you've mentioned
members several times. And and by the way, the HBCU
that was that was was that Arkansas Pine Bluff They
win that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, So here's so here's the thing. So,
so when I was coaching at Wheeling University, I had

(23:38):
a young man from Sweden that I brought over to Wheeling,
West Virginia, and then he decided he wanted to play
Division one. He transferred to Arkansas Pine Bluff. So he
just won that championship. He just won that championship. So
now he's sitting in Sweden saying, I won that championship
and he and he does not give me enough credit
for it. He really should give me a little bit
more credit for it, but he doesn't.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
So let me say something real fast.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Isn't that cool? Because that program, when they go back
to their countries or back to their neighborhoods and they
see how we treated him for that, they go back on, Wow,
the peace of America is no joke, shredding good villa
of what we do. It's not just about people who
look like us. It's about getting everybody to play the
game of golf, and whether it's recreational or professional.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
All right, you're exactly right. And he did say that too.
He goes, I thought the event. I thought the conference
championship was pretty good. He goes, that was nothing. I'm like, yeah,
that's how it's supposed to be. So all right, So
he said, thirty two thousand, are there too many? Are
there too many? Members versus job job opportunities.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Right, yeah, quality versus quantity and the demand of a
golf professional.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Isn't it funny?

Speaker 2 (24:42):
I I think of the guice who ran for secretary
or tals A ran for secretary of a long time ago,
is like, we got to have less members, you know,
it's all about quality.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
And then all of a sudden.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
After COVID, everybody was working for sixty hours a week
and they're like, where are the assistant golf professionals?

Speaker 3 (24:55):
Right?

Speaker 2 (24:55):
And then we had the golf pro crisis. Right are
we grinding so much that you know, our mental health,
our family health is all being impacted, so things that
we need to do. I think there was a badge
of honor of a PGA professional to say I work
sixty hours a week.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
You know that's what I do?

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Well, who wants that job? If you tell anybody that
you work that much and you never get to play golf,
why would anybody do it? And guess what nobody did.
Enrollment was completely down at PGM, Associates were down, numbers
were down, and who wants to get in the hospitality
industry because what's the money based on the work life balance?
I want to have a work life balance. When rich
you and I are looking at things, do want to
get what's the balance of your life's work? Those hugs

(25:32):
from veterans, those tight fives and juniors, or a widow
who starts playing golf, and you get it to get
an airborne's that's the currency of our profession. That's the
currency of the crafts of being a PGA professional. So listen,
I don't want two minutes. But we did have a
problem and we needed some golf professionals. We have an
aging membership. There is no doubt the majority, if not

(25:52):
like sixty now, I might even over sixty percent of
our seventy percent over of our members or you know,
within ten years of retiring more than life, how are
we going to replenish this? And who are they? And
if they graduate with a book of like I just
became a PGA professional, Okay, that's a recipe. That doesn't
make you a cook. We got to get into mentorship, brother,
We got to get into mentoring these young professionals of

(26:14):
the craft of being a PGA professional. Not just the
hows and the what, We need to get into the
why of it. So I don't think we have too many.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
I think.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Remember when I say thirty two thousand and eight thousand
of those are associates, which, just like pollege, not every
freshman graduates, so not all those eight thousand are going
to be PGA professionals. There's attrition, and that attrition is
by design. People ask is it hard, Yes, it's hard.
That's why half of them drop out, you know, after
level one because they're like, I didn't realize that's what
it's going to be about. Well, good, we want to

(26:44):
get you ready for that, and then level two and
level three we start polishing the rock a little bit
and get them ready. But I don't think there's too
many right now because we're only market share in a
public golf course maybe fifty five percent, if a number
might be a little wrong there, but that's our market
share of golf professionals at public facilities. And when there's
sixteen thousand golf courses, maybe three quarters of them are public.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
That means we have a lot of room to grow.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Into getting j professionals at facilities.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
And I think that rich.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Is what it's I was just talking to some a
PGA lead class in southern California this morning. We have
to tell the story that we are not an expense,
we're cost a good soul. You invest one hundred thousand
dollars in a PJA professional, he's going to make you
way more than that at your facility. We have to
make sure owners understand that, oh, I can't afford a
PJA No, you can't afford not have pjpro because I

(27:34):
bring revenue, I bring relationship, and I bring sustainability to
the loyalty that I'm creating when I'm coached onn not
when I'm general manager Don and I'm counting money. I
need to be coached on.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Even if I'm a GM.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
I have to wear that hat of coach Don so
many hours a week. I don't know how many you got,
but at least five to ten can you be coached on,
so you're building relationship. Otherwise we're just club managers, and
I don't want to be club managed. I think they
do a brilliant job of education. But at the end
of the day, we're palm to palm, we're chest to chess,

(28:08):
we're high fives. That's what separates the PG of America
because we love this game and we get people to
love it, and that's what's the engine at the game
of golf. People loving the game, not doing it because
you know it's something to do. No, it's because I
gotta do it because I love it so much. So yeah,
I'm not worried about that, but we do got to
get the message into the new members of what his profession.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Is all about. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
So it's interesting you say that because last week I
was talking to Joe Hatch, who was the director of
the Professional Golf Management program at Ferris and I and
I said, and he said the same, He said, you know,
because we're talking about the playing ability test, because obviously
that's a stumbling block. It is, it's just flat out
is it IS's just say it is because it's the
only it's the only golf tournament you ever play where
you can win and fail. So yeah, So it's so

(28:52):
I said to him, I said, you know what, He's like, Well,
we do this, this, this and this, and we make
sure they do that. He said, I have two right now,
they're having trouble and I and I tell this story
because I text them later. I wasn't kidding. I'm like, look,
I I probably have taken the PAT more than any
nine professionals. You could you could mention combined? I said,

(29:12):
But I said, if they need help, call me. I'll
come up there. I'll talk to him, but I'll go
up there. I'll walk around a golf course with them.
What do I care?

Speaker 3 (29:20):
You know?

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Because all that does is help them. And if I
get if I get them somewhere, then they help us.
And the more the more I get that logo in
places and the words in places, you know, it's like
it's like I I the facility I'm at now because
they closed my last fall, so I'm at this new place.

(29:43):
So the first time the junior program ever at this facility.
So I have one hundred I have one hundred and
fifteen kids. And my owner said to me, how did
you do that? I said, well because I wanted to
number one number two. And he's like, well, how are
you going to teach one hundred and fifteen kids? I said, well,
do sections you know sixteen by age and the sixteen
seventeen kids. He's like, who's going to help you? I said, nobody,

(30:05):
because that's my job. That's my job. That's that's where
I you know, I can I can figure out the
PEPSI order. I really can. I really can and I
can do that at seven thirty at night, but I can't.
I can't teach these kids at eight, nine, ten, eleven,
and twelve o'clock. So to your point, and so now

(30:26):
let's roll into to one of the other questions. Is okay,
so we have career consultants. So are they are they
getting onto non PGA facilities doing better?

Speaker 3 (30:37):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (30:37):
I think we've got more now. You know when people
say what are you doing with all the money? Well,
you know when you're sending money down to the sections.
But we also can do is hire people at the
pg of America that are actually just extensions of the
staffs of the sections. Right. I mean, there's a certain
amount of money that we can give down to the sections,
but we can't give everything down there because of the
irs long story, but I'm telling you it is what

(30:59):
it is. We've asked every lawyer, every tax account. We're
trying to find ways around it.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
But it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
But what we can do, and when people look like
whers for so many people who work at the PGA
of America, well some of those a lot of them
are in the field. They're doing championships things, like that.
But a lot of our career consultants player engagement consultants,
and they're down there trying to be proactive. Now what
I would say, Rich, We've been reactive for a long
time because we didn't have enough career consultants. We're getting
to the point now, the Investment and Member Section operations

(31:29):
that we were getting to be proactive talking to a
golf professional, talking to a golf course that doesn't have,
you know, a PGA professional. Our relationship with the MGCA
needs to be tight so they understand the value of
a PGA professional. Once again, like we both just agreed,
you can't afford not to have a PGA professional.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (31:48):
But so we got to get to the MGCOA and
we got to make sure we explain it to that.
We got to get to the Club Manager Association.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
We all got to work together.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
None of us are rivals, none of us are even competitors.
We're all in this to make sure people playing more golf.
If people play more golf, then the pg professional will benefit.
That's in fact, high tide does raise all ships. And
so yeah, I think they're doing that more now.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
There is no doubt about that.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
We are getting into the non PGA facilities and doing
the best we can, and then we're getting to our
professionals too. You know what, I think it's a shame.
Sometimes there's this compensation survey, uh and some sections are
really good at it and some sections aren't. And the
more professionals that go into the compensation survey, which is
completely anonymous and let us know what you're making right

(32:31):
now because of you know, we need more pros. There
are some facilities starting to pay professionals the way they
should be paid. Well, when that happens, it's like if
I'm selling my house and the house that in that
neighborhood are going for more money that MSDS that I'm
going to look at, or the the MLS. I was
just talking about an ocean I fight.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
I must see this in my head. You might know that.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
MSDS is that when you're saying chemicals out of school,
you better have that MSD.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, that's exactly right, right right. They'll find you very quickly.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
That's one of the many things the PGA professional's got
to work about. But the MLS, you know, that can
help you sell your house for more money. If everybody's
selling it, their house for more money. That's what happens
with the compensation survey. And then that's right now we're
getting proactive to the point where we can go to
a golf professional and say, hey man, we're looking in
the area and this is what the average salary compensation

(33:24):
package is.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
You're below that.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Let's get to you there, Let's get a let me
let me walk you through how you're going to go
to your boss and ask for a little bit more
money and show the value of that. Once again, we're
not an expense, we're it cost.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
A goods sold.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
You give us money, we make you ten times that
way over Keystone. And so I do like the fact
that the curit consultants were getting enough of them now
that we're not fire you know, and that we're not
putting out fires. We're actually fireproofing our professionals to make
sure they make the money they deserve.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yes, that's yeah, that's that's you know, because you have
that you have the numbers more more readily available to
you because you know you're you're more knowledgeable in that
area than I am. But but like, as long as
we are trying to get qualified PG professionals to sit
in chairs at facilities that they don't have access to

(34:14):
right now. And I think, I think it's really interesting
because I I I, as I said, I they closed
the club I was at in December, and and then
so I I, you know, I talked to a bunch
of people and I got myself a job. Right, So
I do we do thirty three thousand rounds of golf?

(34:34):
I mean I did two hundred and seventy five people
one day, and I'm going to my god, that's a
lot of people, you know, and and so and that's
it was a non PJ facility and now it is
a PG facility, and I just and not that not
that I made two hundred and seventy four people show up,

(34:55):
but I'd like to think that I have a little
bit of credit for them coming back. See. And then
that's and that's why that's why I want. That's why
I want, and I know you do too, why I
want every golf course to have a PJ professional who's
paid well and and and and his compensated correctly. You know.
So that's that's that's kind of that question. So Okay,

(35:18):
we're gonna do one quick break and then I have
just a couple more questions for you, and then we'll
be right back. This is the Rich Combo Golf Show.
Welcome back to the Rich combogof Show. Having a great
discussion today with the President of the PJ of America,
Don Rey and and you know, I only have a
few more questions on So I'm gonna ask you kind

(35:40):
of like a you know, you you do understand that
you know, people like me and other people other PJ members.
You do know that we're in your corner, right. I mean,
it's it is easy to kick you, but it's easy
to kick anybody like I grabed Derek Spreak and make

(36:00):
make fun of him whatever, you know, But I could.
But but but like I think we all want the
same thing, which is we want more people to play golf,
we want to make more money, and we want to
go home a little bit earlier. I mean, let's I mean,
let's just boil it down to that, you know, I
mean literally, that's literally what we want to do. And

(36:22):
maybe if the fourth one, if we could play like
nine more holes a week, you know what I mean,
that would be great. So you know, I guess maybe
I want to just say before I'll say at the
end too. But thanks. You know, I know, I know
you don't get paid for this. I know you you know,
I know this is volunteer and you have some really
cool things that go with it. Trust me, I know,

(36:43):
you know, I don't. I don't know, but like you know,
I talked to Jim Remy and I've talked to you.
There's some cool stuff going with it. I mean, you
know you mentioned Tiger was before. I'm sure you've stood
next to Tiger wasn't talk to him. Okay, that's pretty cool,
you know. So so I wanted to start with that.
You know, we're not enemies. We're not enemies.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
We're fellow members, brother, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
So all right, So then I do have to add
and this is near and this actually goes back to
my mother, because my mother was a huge believer in education. Okay, So,
so like I have a master's degree, and I had
five six, five brothers and sisters. One was physically unable
to go to college mentally challenged, and but of the
five of us that could, there are eleven advanced degrees.

(37:28):
So I turned to you and say, okay, are you
confident what can we do to turn out members that
can improve facilities.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
More well, you know, I think the investment that we're
doing a PG coach is critical. You know about getting
people on the golf course. And you know, you don't
learn baseball on a batting cage, you don't learn golf
on a driving range. You got to get him on
the golf course. I mean, if you asked the PJ professional,
have you watched any of your not your juniors, but
your regular students that you have ever play golf? And

(38:03):
we tend to give people, you know, what they want
instead of what they need. We ask them, what do
you want to work on today? I mean a doctor
would never do that. And we are the practitioners of
this game. And I you know about when I coach
Katie's softball team, you know, the next practice was always
based on what we didn't do in the previous game
and not what they thought they did wrong when I
saw they did wrong. And so I think what we're
what we got to do on the education side, certainly,

(38:25):
you know, there's x's and o's and making sure we
know what even is a good balance sheet and our
capital improvements and a lot of reserve study is for
some of the members who want to go to that
level and maybe own a golf course someday. But I
think what really have to focus on right now is
making sure that you know, we are the tangible connection
between the golfer and the game, and we got to

(38:45):
get them on the golf course because rounds of golfer
revenue and revenue gets deposited and it makes the owners
in the golf industry happy. So let's get on the
golf course and watch our golfers play. And I'm not
talking playing lessons. I'm talking also just assessments and taking
three people out, not one, and then having lunch with
them and explain what you're going to do to make
them better, and not focus on unnecessary on what would

(39:08):
make it fun for them. It's not swing stands anymore.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
It's store is.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Definitely there's some enjoyment in store. But you know, I
think you get there by watching somebody play, not by
watching somebody practice because they try some crazy shots out
there is you and I both know. So what I'd
like to see and I'd like to see, and we're
working on this more entrepreneurship kind of programs. You know,
what to take the leaf of golf course by a
golf course, start a a simulator business in a strip

(39:36):
mall somewhere, open up top tracer like we did at
Agusta Ranch. So we can always get better on the education.
I you know, I do think pub Manage Association.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Does a really good job.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
There's a lot of classes that they give that we
don't cover because not all our professors want to be
general managers, so we're a little light, you know, I
would say some of those Really, you're gonna put in
a swimming pool, what are you gonna do, You're gonna
convert tennis course to take a ball, what do you do?
SIMA does a great job on that, so we should
align with them, and we've already started that process of
making sure that education's education when it's at our merchandise

(40:06):
show or any place solf. So I'm with you, but
I think they answer your question is I think let's
let's focus more on PGA coach because that's our tangible
connection and that leads to sustainability to business. And then
I'd like to see a little more entrepreneurship going on
and what we teach, So maybe get back to the
old days, you know, when we got to lease a
golf course or buy a golf course and act like owners,

(40:27):
even if we didn't have the cash to do it.
That's the most important thing to me.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, I agree with that. I think that, I think
that I think and this is just me, but I
think personally, the best thing in the world we can
do is to make ourselves the the most powerful person
at any facility. And you know, I don't want to lose.
I don't want to lose. I don't want somebody to

(40:53):
lose a job to it. And it's not we're not enemies,
but to a general manager, I want I want, I
want unity, I want I want the I want the
golf professional to know as much as the general manager.
General managers as much as the golf professional because I
have never ever ever met a general manager in a
traditional sense that could walk out and help missus Haversham

(41:14):
get that ball in the air.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Because if you don't know the names, brother, you're done. Hey,
I is going to be able to do all that
business stuff. Yeah, just in the driver's seat to build relationship.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Okay, So all right, all right, So this one's kind
of this one's kind of near and dear to me,
all right, talk to me about Okay, So First of all,
I know you know who Horton Smith is. It was
He's not alive anymore. Horton Smith won the first Masters,
the third Masters, worked at Detroit Golf Club, and was

(41:48):
the beacon for PGA education for a long time. And
there is a there's a part of our history that's
we're not I don't think anybody's proud of it that
that you had to be Caucasian to be a PGA member.

(42:08):
I mean, I think everybody would admit that. And and
Horton Smith was involved as the president of the PJ
of America. In your chair obviously not your chair chair chair,
but your position, and we they they kept that, they
kept that clause in stated and many years later we

(42:31):
took there was a it was an award named for
the Horton Smith Award, National Award and Section Award, Section
Awards that in honor of him, and we took that
name off that award. And I'm and I'm just one member.
I'm a history guy, though, I just I think that

(42:52):
was I think that was wrong. I would I'll tell
you flat out look you're right in the eye and
tell you I think it was wrong. We did it,
and I want to know if we could ever figure
out a way to reconsider that decision.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, you know, we're in a collection of members. We're
a collection of sections. There's delegates of those sections that
go to the annual meeting and during an open form
through through resolutions changes. That's how this associations changed at
the end of the day. You know, it's it's pretty democratic.

(43:26):
You just got to be heard and you got to
get there. And I listened to to Horton Smith. You
know you left out that. You know he married Alfredstbourne's daughter,
alfredst Bourne. He was the founder of Augusta National. Are
out the Senior pg Championship trophy is called the Alfredstbourne
Trophy because of what he did. The first two Senior
PGA Championships our tournaments was played with Augusta National. Smith

(43:47):
was revered in Augusta National. As you said, he won
the first two and so we did a lot of
amazing things in public golf. And to your point, it
does hit close to home. Lost my share of votes
in the National boardroom and no one will ever know
it because when we come out of their shoulders to
shoulder what the vote did, whether it passed by one,
or it was unanimous, we say this is what we did.
So you'll never know how a president felt about any

(44:09):
clause whatever that is allowing international members into the PGA
of America, what we're going to do with folds of
honor or PGA hope, or what you know mister Smith
had to deal with when the Caucasian only. What kind
of discussions were happening of trying to get rid of
that or trying to keep it.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
We'll never know. But all I can do is look at.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
The body at work of a PGA professional and what
they committed their life to, not necessarily what boardroom they
were in, and they were subject to a vote, and
maybe they believed.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
In or maybe they didn't.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
I would like to see, you know, whether it's a
people talk about Ted Bishop or hort and Smith or
all these things. Listen, it's probably never going to start
in the national boardroom unless we hear from the members
who say we want to do this. At the end
of the day, when you when you sign up petition
or you stand up at an annual meeting and go
we want to see this changed. You don't stand up, then,
why do we know it's important to you? So I

(44:57):
tell people all the time. Go to your section meetings.
Talk to your district director. There's fourteen district directors representing
the forty one sections. Call your district director and say,
I think this is this is not right, and this
is why. And here's some stories that I saw that
I think defend my point. I need you to take
another look. You were elected by me in my section.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
What are you going to do about it?

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Challenge your district directors, call them up, email them their
emails addresses, or all on PJ dot org and tell
them how you feel. And if that gets loud enough,
and reach the national boardroom. And reach the National boardroom,
you're just a motion away. At the end of the day,
Robert Stools of order exists. You make the motion, it
gets second, and you have discussion. If it passes, the
PJ of America changes direction or just one motion away

(45:41):
from changing whatever everybody wants, whether that's the dedication of
resources and dollars to a certain thing that we all love,
or changing a decision that was made five years ago,
whatever it is, the member has to stand up because
if we don't hear from you, then it's never.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Going to change.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Because we figured you don't care, or you're just happy
with the way things you're going. And we certainly have
board members rich you know, feel a certain way about
that award and other things. But if you stand in
the borderroom and go, this is what I think, it's
one thing. But if you say this is what my
constituents think, this is what my district thinks, you get
a bunch of districts aligned on something like that. The
Piece of American Board of Directors can't stop it because

(46:17):
they have to listen to their members. So ours democratic
as you standing up in a section meeting or emailing
one of your representatives and go, I want to see change,
but it just can't be you get a bunch of
members on your side.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
Let's see what happens.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Okay, So all right, so now, okay, now I'm going
to go a little bit different here. Okay, because this
is and this is not we didn't we didn't talk
about this ever. Okay, how in the world do we
not have Larry Nelson as a Ryder Cup captain.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
You know what's funny is.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
I called every past champion of the PGA Championship and said,
I want you to come to the dinner Larry Nelson
hadn't been to that dinner in twenty years now. He
did help us with the PJ Hope. I don't if
you know that, but our Health and Wellness Week in
Congressional we invited Larry and he came and spent time
with the twenty ambassadors that were in that room. He
told stories, he told about how it hurt him, you know,
not being a Ryder Cup captain. But when I called Larry,

(47:14):
I said, once you come to the past champions dinner.
He came and he sat right next to Rory. If
you know anything about Larry Nelson, he was undefeated. He
kicked Sevy's butt all the time. And it was funny
to see Rory talking to Larry Nelson and Larry Nelson
bragging about his Ryder Cup record, and then Lanny Watkins
in the room, you know, talking about Larry's record, and
it was hilarious. And you know, you know, obviously I

(47:35):
don't know what happened back then. You know, back then,
the president got to pick the Ryder Cup captain. Now
we have a Ryder Cup committee that helps us do that,
and you know that's seeded with tour players and the
officers of the pg of America and our CEO.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
But you know, I don't know what happened there, but
I know that.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
It was a pleasure for me to call him invited
to the dinner he hadn't been to in twenty years.
I'm glad that he came. He's got a heart for
the veteran I'd like to see him do more with
PJ Hope.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
We're working on that now.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
I don't know where that's going to lead, but I
know that if we can show that man some honor.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
He served his.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Country, he serves his association, he's a PGA member, and
he won our championship. So whatever we can do to
make him feel good. We can't write, you know, historical wrongs.
We certainly consider you're sorry and then invite him back
into the family and ask for their help to help
us grow this Hope program. I know Larry'd be in
for that, and I've talked to David stalked at about it,
and I think we're going to get close on something
like that. But yeah, it's crazy, you know, the things

(48:24):
that we've done in our history, and all we can
do is apologize and move forward and do the best
we can.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yeah, that's yeah, you're right, you're right, that's exactly right.
And that that actually that actually makes me happy to
hear that he would that he came back and you
called him and all that fun stuff, because interestingly enough,
if you to circle back, the older I get, the
smaller the world gets. When he won the US Open
at Oakmont, he stayed in the house right next to

(48:50):
my and wow, and and like he'd walk, he'd walk
to Oakmont every day. Now, of course it was different
now because I know you were at Oakmont and so
it was. I so, but like it's different now, obviously
different now. I mean in eighty three, I think I
snuck through the nursing home and through the bushes and
that's how I got in. But now now it's like
now it's like you know, you know, it's like a

(49:10):
you know, it's it's easier to it's harder to get
in there than to get on the get off the
new fly list. So I'm like, so I did it.
And but she told me, she said, you know, when
he was done, because he had to come back on Monday.
He came in. He knocked on her door. After the
dinner on Monday night, members gave me knocked on her
door and said, hey, I hope the kids and I
weren't too much noise for you. And I was like,

(49:31):
you know what, like, yeah, you know what, that's a
pretty good guy right there, because they weren't because the
kids were like four and six and they were never there.
They were never home, you know. But it's just it's
just funny. So all right down, you know what, I
told you, this would go by fast and I and
it's over. I want to say thank you so much
for this. You know again, it's always I've talked to

(49:54):
you several times, I've met you several times, and you
are genuinely just the way you are, and that's you know,
self awareness is a trait that's not found in this
in this world. So you know, good luck to your
daughter in med school. I mean I didn't bring that up,
but I know you did. And she'll do great. And

(50:15):
you know, if I can, As always I say this
to every PGA member I talked to, if I can help,
you call me, because I don't know you need help
unless you call me.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Well, thank you, brothers. It's nice to have this time
and and and answer.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Some of these questions.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
And some people think are hard. They just uh, you know,
I don't get a chance to give the answers. And
so I know you've got a huge following, so that
makes me happy. And and any PGA member or a
NONPGA member, you know, you can always connected with me
on LinkedIn private message me. I'd love to talk to you,
Don Ray.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Thank you so very much, Thank you buddy. All Right,
this is the Rich Combo Golf Show.