May 21, 2025 • 49 mins
Ted Simons of Synergy Group Consulting joins Rich to talk about his involvement in the Patriot Golf Foundation, the drive to keep innovating the game, and more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Rich Komwal Golf Show. This week we
are going to talk about We're gonna talk with a
very very very interesting man, by the way, Ted Simon's.
Ted has a really really really lengthy stay I'm not
trying to call him old, but a lengthy stay in
the golf business and a very very interesting developmental, developmental
(00:26):
aspect to the game of golf. So, uh, before we
get started with all that, Ted, thank you so much
for joining us this week.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
You betcha thank you for the invitation and look forward
to it.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
That's absolutely awesome. So as I start with everybody, you
know for those obviously not everybody knows this, but Ted
is not like a traditional junior golfer like you know,
start eight and start smacking around and playing all over
the region and things like that. But but kind of
give us a little bit of background Ted, like where
he started, where he grew up, you know, where he
went to college, all that fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh that good stuff. But yeah, I'm a I'm a
Western guy. Uh, lived in Utah, Idaho, Washington, Colorado, now
down in Scottsville, Arizona. But my introduction to golf actually
came through my mother. Her and one of her friends
decided to start playing golf. And I was twelve years old,
(01:22):
So what are you going to do with your kids?
So you dragged him along into the golf course. And
that's how that's how I got introduced to the game
of golf and played it socially, played with my buddies,
and played boob golf, played mentally golf, and just just
enjoyed the game. And you know, raised a couple of
(01:45):
a couple of kids that turned out to be pretty
good golfers too.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay. So and then as you got older and you
did all that nifty stuff. Where'd you go to college?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
University of Utah. I'm a I'm a youth. I mean,
you had a tough season last year, but uh, you know,
we'll be back. We'll be back.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So you're most So let's see Alex Smith, right, Rick
majeris all right, Rick majerriss, Yeah, and Alex Smith. Alex Smith.
And let's see Urban Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, he was there for a couple of years. So yeah,
we've uh, you know, we've had we've had some good
runs both in basketball and football, and so we're you know,
we're looking forward to getting back on the waiting track
with football basketball. Well, it seems to be a longer road.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, no, kid, No, I think it's a longer road
for everybody because I'm in Pittsburgh and you know what,
that's a long road. Okay. So you know, you go
to Utah. You know, how did you decide to get
in the golf business.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, I think the golf business found me. I showed
out in the ski and tennis industry that morphed into
the video and film production world. And with my network,
I naturally focused on sports and you know, got clients
like your Nick's Golf and Tennis, Yamaha Golf and Tennis.
(03:14):
Wilson's Sporting Goods was one of my one of my
major clients. And just through the course of time networking
being introduced different people, suddenly golf just came to be.
I was introduced to a gentleman by the name of
Mike Alaska and he was just coming out of an
(03:37):
agreement with Nicholas Golf Schools Nicolas Slick and wanted to
produce his own materials. So I was produced and directed
and wrote You Are Your Own Swing with Mike. And
from there, Mike introduced me to the Nicholas group and
(03:59):
their golfer can the means, and over the course of
a couple of years, I became the CEO and Executive
VP for Nicholas Academies worldwide.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Well there's a nice little jump, isn't it a nice
little jump?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
It never hurts, you know, hear the golden bear your
business card?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
No kidding, o kidding, So so when you go. So
that's so, that was a different arm than the Nicholas
Flick schools.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Correct, Correct, The Nicholas Flick Schools dissolved and there were
Nicholas Academies Nicholas golf centers already established in certain parts
of the world. And then you know, basically took that
model and what I know I would call the you know,
(04:47):
the evolution of high end golf construction with coaching studios
and integrated technologies, all of that is pretty much where
where we lad that?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Wow? And then so what kind of growth did would
did the academy? See? Under your direction, we went.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
From eight established academies to twenty eight in fourteen countries
and a lot of growth. Obviously in Asia, you know,
we rather the seven eight storm here, which which took
out a few locations that were primarily development related, but
(05:33):
you know, introducing and developing the game of golf in
you know, underserved countries, be it Asia, be it at
you know, to a certain level, Brazil was India was
a lot of fun, a lot of fun, a lot
of challenge. Has been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Right, So, so of all those countries, which is your favorite?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Oh yeah, that's picking between your children. I have great
memories with so many of them because of the relationships
you building in golf. But I would say, you know,
you know, I just had a tremendous experience developing a
really run of a kind academy in Hong Kong. And
(06:20):
my time in Hong Kong was was just really special memories.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
That's really neat. That's really neat. So so all right,
so as you are growing this, I mean, obviously I'm
going to ask about the guy whose names on the building, right, So,
how involved was Jack Nicholas and all this?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Uh, Jack would review our curriculum, and since he recommended
Mike Plaska to be the director of instruction worldwide, that
was a pretty easy play. Mike and mister Nicholas, which
spend class. I'm talking about how Jack approaches the game
(07:02):
of golf, Jack's philosophy, Jack's reliance on the fundamentals, and
Jack's appreciation that everybody swings the club differently, right, Yeah,
nobody swung the club like mister Nicholas, including his family,
And so why would you teach the way Jack swings
(07:23):
the club? But it always came back to the fundamentals, impact,
ball flight, not really sexy.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Stuff right right, that is interesting, but stuff that works
right right, It's interesting because so you know, you talk
about the fundamentals. I mean, he was he was massive
into that because even every year you go back and
see Jack growl and Jack Crow would just check his grip,
his alignment, his ball position, just like that. Not sexy
stuff that like makes everybody better, you know, and it's
(07:55):
you know, he was good at it.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
And so my responsibility, you know, were my vision is
how do we you know, how do we create an
r around the Jack Nicholas Academy at golf. You know,
you just can't say, oh, we teach the fundamentals and
charge a lot of money. You know, we created these
you know, high tech coaching studios before you know, video
(08:17):
and pressure mats and launch bounders were all integrated into
a single software platform, designed and built some beautiful academies
and driving ranges and learning centers, you know, to represent
the Nicholas brand on the globe level. And as I
(08:38):
used to say, Jack's designed obviously fantastic golf courses, and
you know, is the goat. People will debate it, but
I believe he's the goat. But the academies were the
only the only aspect that really touched the golfer, right
And you know, and I believe that with instructure, whether
(08:58):
it was a Nicholas academy or anybody's academy or just
an individual coach out there. Yeah, but those instructors that
really make the game easier to play, you know, I
believe the game is.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Stagnant, so right right, Yeah, It is interesting because you know,
I I'm in a very very very busy, semi private facility,
and you talk about make the game easier. I find
myself often questioning that if I I just don't know that,
I don't know that people I don't know. I can't
figure out how people view instruction. I own PG professional.
(09:40):
You know, I stand there, I look at people and
I'm like, why wouldn't you ask? It doesn't have to
be me. Why wouldn't you ask somebody for help? Because
it can't be fun to give people a lot of
money to just go and and just you know, like
you'd quit going to the baseball game if your team
never ever ever won? You know you why would why
(10:04):
would you? Why would you pay money to go play?
And I'm not saying I I think I can make everybody,
you know shoot seventy four, but like, why why would you?
Why would you go do that if you couldn't, if
you have no realistic chance of breaking one hundred, like
like and so like it's interesting when you talk like that,
like make it easier.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Well, you know, I think you know, you know, I
really have an opinion about making the game fun. You know,
nobody wants to be crappy like anything. And you know,
when you're out there struggling on the golf course, that's
not fun. You should be enjoying nature. You should be
enjoying the weather, your friends are, you know, the competition
(10:46):
or why however you're you know, why you're playing the game.
But if yeah, you're just sitting there topping balls, hitting
him fat knock him in, Like when you walk off,
you've spent you know, hopefully less four and a half hours,
got less than one hundred and fifty bucks, and you
didn't have a good time. So why don't you take
(11:08):
a lesson? Why don't you at least get the ball
in the air and work with somebody that understands you're
not going to go out and you know, shoot seventy
two got started. If you could, you know, power a
couple levels. Wow, that's that's a win, right.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And it's it's like you shoot, you shoot, you know,
you shoot ninety four, you feel like you know, I
have I have a son and he's just graduated from
Ohio State and and and he's just kind of starting
to because he played lacrosse for a long time and
he's started to play. He's like, you know, I asked him,
I said, well, what do you how good you want
to be? Because if I could break if I could
(11:46):
break ninety, I'll feel like I won the Masters. Like, okay,
that's a realistic goal we can do. You're an athlete,
you're a twenty two year old kid. You can move
a golf club a little bit. We can do that.
But like if he ever said to me, I don't
want I don't want to get any better. I just
want to shoot ninety eight all the time. Like what
do you what are you doing? Like why would you
do that? Like why would you do that? Like like
(12:08):
like that's like when you get why would you go
to the Why would you go volunteer for a root
canal with no novacate? That makes no sense to me.
I don't understand why people do it.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah. When I was traveling, traveling the world and standing
at driving range and watching people, I would just go, yeah,
we will never run out of clients.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yes, yes, we will never ever.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Run out of clients. So you know, it's how do
we reach them? How do we you know, what is
it that triggers somebody could just be one one swing
thought that triggers that that player to suddenly go oh
I get it. Yeah yeah, And that's that's why, you know,
you know, I'm not obviously a big proponent of teaching
(12:56):
a single method because we're all built, we're all wired different. Yeah,
but gush trin if you can, uh, you know, if
you can get that club face back to the golf call,
get it in the air and going towards your intended target,
you win. You know, for most people, that's.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
What we're in you win. Like I tol, I do
a lot of I do a lot of ladies clinics,
and I tell them all beginners because it's that he's wrong, clinic.
Anything the guy ever told you is wrong except for
me and my The first thing I say to him
is like, look, you will never, ever, ever, nobody in
this discussion right now that we're having right now with
you twelve ladies and myself is ever going to play
golf on TV. So just eliminate it right now. So now,
(13:36):
once we do that, let's set some realistic goals. What
we want to do. We want to have a little
bit of fun, we want to play with our friends,
we want to get outside, we want to get away
from a telephone, and let's go do that. And I
just I just can't, for the life of me, I
can't figure out why people won't ask for help. I
don't I don't know. I know. I know obviously you
(13:57):
don't know the answer either, because you would, you would
tell me. But I just don't understand. I just don't
understand why.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, sometimes you know, not ask for help or not
even accept it, because that's not the norm. I remember
years ago playing and somebody was just bugging the ball
down the pairway and I said, tee it up. Yes,
(14:27):
well that's not the rules. Wait a minute, well are
you posting the scores you have an handicap. Well no,
but you're not supposed to cheat the ball in the pairway.
I said, do it. Next thing, you know, you get
a bogie, I don't forbid you get a par and
suddenly the game is fun instead of picking up after
(14:48):
nine topped and fat shots and going why am I
out here? So yeah, if you're going to go get
a andicap, play the ball down, if you're going to
go out, and even as a good player, if you're
working on the screen, change, take your ground out of play,
give yourself a little bit of room to get that
club face back to the ball on its intended swing path.
(15:12):
And you know, heavn't forbid if you know, if you've
got a slicing work, can I working on getting the drop? Yeah?
He had up once in a while, and yeah, dang it.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, let me right right. Let resistance go away, you know,
because the goal is to get better, and that's that's
crazy to me. All right, So all right, so right
now I've kind of got you in a situation where
you have you've developed this, this, these academies and things
like that. When we come back from this commercial break,
I want to talk to you about some of the
(15:44):
things that you've seen done with with teaching and some
technology and things like that. This is the Rich Combo
Golf Show. Welcome back to Rich Combo Golf Show. We
are joined this week by Ted Simon's or we're joined
with Ted Simons. And Ted was basically instrumental in expanding
(16:06):
the Nicholas Academy across the world, not necessarily the teaching
part of it, but actually the development of the programs
and the and the academies in numerous countries fourteen countries
all over the world. So I guess my first question
for you, Ted, when we talk about this is tell
(16:27):
me about tell me about I know there are many successes,
but tell me about a failure that actually led to success.
This is interesting. This is kind of stuff we talk
about with my students in the game of golf and
things like that.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, you know, it's you know, I would say, you know,
my failures in many cases were related to making a
bad hire. Oh, because when I would go in and
you know, negotiate open an academy in Fingao, China, and
and the academy owner said, we want a we want
(17:09):
a PG have America professional. Oh okay, Well what about
just somebody's really good instructor that is passionate about the game. No,
we want to PG. Okay, all right, there's plenty of
good DGA instructors out there. So I put up you know,
(17:29):
I put up the message, do a lot of interviews,
and yeah, you just never know what you're going to
get until you know they're really in the fire. And
not specific to this project in China, but I've I've
made some hires for sometimes the director of instruction, but
(17:51):
even staff instructors, and you know, after you know, two
or three or six months or just going, they just
don't give it. They just don't get it. So what
did I do wrong in my hiring process or in
my training program? So where did I miss that I
(18:11):
did not get this particular teacher to understand how to
properly communicate to the instructor what their responsibilities are with
the academy and the coaching studio, those types of things.
So I would look at my mistakes from a staffing
(18:31):
standpoint and fix it so that the next time my
interview process was better, my research was better, my training
of them, an expectation of them was better. So, you know,
the fame is golf instruction. It comes down to communication.
(18:51):
So I made assumptions and those assumptions were not right.
I learned from my mistakes when it came to came
to you know, hiring and training. But the instructors who
don't represent me, they represent mister Nicholas, and that's you know,
(19:12):
that's a lot of responsibility.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right right. So yeah, so that's interesting. So all right,
so recover from your and actually that probably allows you
to expand a little faster than you thought you would
because once you kind of I don't say weed out,
because I'm not trying to say weed anybody out because everybody, Unfortunately,
I think a lot of people in this country have
lost a job. And it's not good when somebody comes
in and say, okay, you don't have that job anymore.
(19:34):
But but it's interesting. So all right, So how hard
how hard did you recruit instructors or was it was?
Because it was the Nicholas Academy was and it was
a kind of a fundamental based, communication based environment how
difficult was it to find people to do it?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, you know, it comes down to you know, especially
when you're if you're in the States, it's very easy,
right if you if you're you know, if you've got
your eyes set on somebody that said the director of
instruction in Utah and you think they're a great hand
that to move to Bend, Oregon, all right, you know
(20:21):
that one, That one's relatively easy if you if the
compensation package and everything else is adequate. You know, when
you asked somebody to move from the Bay Area to
the middle of China, that's a little bit more of
a challenge. So so when it comes to looking for instructors,
(20:43):
and again going back, I ran into a beautiful candidate,
uh you, as far as credentials and personality and the
way they carried themselves for for our Hong Kong. So
but she would not teach anything but sack and tilt.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Oh god, sorry.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Okay, well what again, our philosophy is not difficult to
convert to. So that's all we would ask, is you
teach our philosophy, and you know you have a job,
which was really a great job. And she she would
not back off of teaching sack and tilt, which is
(21:28):
fundamentally not where we go. And so it's like, you know, yeah, sorry,
you know this one's not going to work. So from
time to time you ran into philosophical uh differences where
they had in their mind a teaching philosophy that worked
for them, but it just didn't match with us.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah. So so a lot it was more vetting than anything,
because you had to kind of get you had to
get to the point where you could unearth all those
nifty things. I'll tell you, that's the first time I've
heard stack and tat in a while. Wow. That was interesting.
That was that was a flashback right there. Holy cow.
I remember standing at the at the Pretze Facility Augusta
National watching Mike Weir work through that, and I was like,
(22:14):
I was like, you know, he's asking those guys teaching him,
that's questions. You could see him his hands moving, and
you know we've all been there, You've watched it. Guys
asking questions. They're not sure what you're telling him. And
I was like, man, he cannot be happy with this
right now, and and and honestly I don't think he was.
I mean, I never talked to him about it. But
(22:36):
it's just interesting you brought up stack and tote, because
every time I hear those those three words, I go, oh, Mike,
we're augusta national. That did not look like it was
going well. So so it's a great drill.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It's a great drill.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It is a great trill. It is a great show.
Swing away from your wait, swing back your weight, swing
away from your wait, swing back to your weight. It
eliminates a lot of motion. It really does. It really does.
It poses the club face. It's good, but not to
play the game.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
It's a little challenge. It's a little challenging on uneven
lies and on your spine.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, actually it becomes and I'll tell you right now,
I think it's more challenging on your spine than uneven lies.
I'm telling you right now, because you start doing that
to your spine and your spine starts talking really really
bad language back to you.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
So all right, So if you got if you have
the PT center, you knows that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
If if that's right, if you're attached to the physical
therapy center, we're all going to be okay. So let
me ask you this, all right, So I'm I'm sure
that you're very very very very proud of of some
of the guys that you that you hired. Who are
they like to anybody? Do we know them? I mean,
they're probably pretty famous right now.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
No, because we read I mean, we did not work
with per se tour players. Worked with obviously a lot
of junior development, right but in most cases the new
Niicrous academies were at you know, high end facilities. You're
catering to some rather well to do people, and you know,
(24:17):
depending on the facility, you're you know, you're an amenity
that is there to take care of the members. Yes,
our goal is to make them better, but ultimately it's
making the game fund so they enjoyed their membership, so
they spend more money in the restaurants and the pro
shops and paying their membership dues. So, you know, great.
(24:42):
Obviously Mike Alaska leading the leading the ship, which was
actually part of our my recruitment process is you know,
Mike and I developed the curriculum. You know, WHI Jack's approval.
So you know, you get uh, you know, basically be
trained as part of your job by by Mike, who's
(25:05):
who's pretty good but great, great instructor but you would
never do him. Billy Martin who worked for me in Japan, Korea, China,
Hong Kong. He's now back in Orlando. Uh Pud Baker
Canadian was worked for me in in Canada and Guam,
(25:28):
of all places, he's back in Canada. Seth Glasgow to
the little Nicholas Flick guy. He worked for me in Vegas,
did some training in Vietnam. So we've Doug Roberts in Utah.
So we've got we've got some really good instructors out there,
(25:49):
but they were never poor.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Guys, right right, So so that's interesting, that's really cool.
That's the way you put that is again, it goes
back to what you said, we for make the game fun,
make it more enjoyable, make it a little bit more understandable,
and then things get better for everybody. It's just it's
amazing to me that that well again, I'm I'm gonna
(26:12):
start harping on the guy that can't break a hundred
and won't ask for help. It's just it can't be fun.
I mean, how can this can be fun? Yeah? I
think I think that's the best thing about kids.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, you know, I feel like we're selling an experience,
all right, yeah, and that experience. You know, if you
go to a restaurant and you don't have a good experience,
you don't go back, right, So you always want to
make sure that you create that experience, and part of
that experience is making the game enjoyable and a level
(26:44):
of success or whoever is standing in front of.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
You right right their their goal first. Not well that's
how you said before. You know, you can't teach anybody,
you know. The old saying is. You know, my son
for when he was younger, he wanted to play hot
and I said to him, I said, well, all you
do is just get like Sidney Crosby, like you know,
that's like, oh, if you want to play golf like
Jack Nicholas, just swinging like him. No, no, no, we're
(27:09):
not doing that. You know, no, nobody can do that,
like you know, and then and then you have you know,
people sayd Chambeau, I'm going to do this. No you're not. No,
you're not. No, you're not, because there's only one guy
that can do that, and that's the guy who's doing
it right. You can't, you can't do that. So how
much short game did you guys do?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Uh? No. Proviously, you know, we focused a great deal
on the short game. In a perfect scenario, Now, if
we can get a player and we can start with
a putting stroke and work our way back through the
bag to driver, you have a tremendous amount of success.
Because if you can't wear the club up the ball
(27:52):
up to the club face for the putt, what are
you doing swinging out of your shoes for the driver?
And so if we work with the shortest club used
to be in your bag and the shortest stroke, you know,
and work your way back from putting to chipping to
pitching to full swing, you had tremendous amount of success
(28:17):
because everything was related to impact. You know, when you
can find the sweet spot, the game is inherently more
enjoyable and more fun. And so that's you know, that's
really where we could do it. And when we did
golf schools, if we had small groups, you know, we
(28:37):
could we could work that flow from cutting the full
swing and have much more greater success in the short
period of time.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
That is interesting because you have you know, because.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Everybody wants to shoot a lower score, everybody wants a
lower handicap. Therefore, where are you Where are you throwing
your strokes away. It's it's inside of one hundred hundred
and twenty five yards, right, Well, let's focus there.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, because you if you look at that, if you
look at the operation thirty six, the junior thing they start.
We start at the at the green and work backwards
and you shoot thirty six yards thirty six from twenty
five yards. And that's funny because I've done that program
and it's it's really interesting you say that because you
know if people say, well, you know, timmy, little Timmy here,
he's you only to play from twenty five yards, Well,
(29:27):
when Timmy shoots thirty six from twenty five yards for
nine holes, Timmy can play a little bit. Because I'm
going to tell you right now, Dad, you'd have trouble
shooting thirty six from twenty five yards, you really would.
People don't. People don't realize it, you know, and especially fifty,
especially fifty, because I'm telling you right now. You know,
(29:49):
hey Dad, you know it's fifty yards. Well I can
do this, then do it? Wait? I don't know. Yeah,
I know, you don't know. Because you if you start close,
work backwards. The worst thing you can do is give
a little kid driver. I mean, I mean literally literally
the worst thing you can do unless you want the
(30:10):
kid to hate the game.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, I go back to you know, my one of
my sons in junior golf in Utah. And you know
one of the kids you played Utah Junior Golf Association
with was Daniel summer Hays. Yeah, and you know there's
a little short, ish, stout young man eight nine years old.
(30:35):
Everybody else drives him. Everybody it's further, and Daniel beats
the pants off everybody because that little bugger. They get
up and down from anywhere. And I'm looking at my
my who won today? Well I knew who won, but
who won today? Summer? Hey, how do you beat you
(30:58):
short game? Right?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Okay, let's talk about Yeah, exactly, you might. You can't
beat them, join them, and you're right, you're exactly. Skip
Skip Kendol is the same way. Skip Kendl's the same
way Skip Kendel, you know, not Skip Kettle a very
good player, obviously, but Skip would never go and nobody
ever go, oh my god, he hits it so well.
He does hit it well. But I'll tell you what.
(31:20):
He misses a green. We're okay, he's not worried about
that he's got you.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, I mean yeah, And again this goes back to
you know the oldest when you could do this. But
I give my boys five dollars each, drop him off
at a golf course, public golf course in Utah, and
they could get a small bucket of the balls, hot
dog bag of chips.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Out of the coke right, exactly exactly, and I.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Would cut fans. I said, I will be back in
four hours.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
So use your balls wisely exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, this is all, this is all you've got. And
so they learned, you know, they learned how to how
to appreciate time on the range, because every ball was
a wasted ball. Where was set up? Who to be
looking at? Because kids just mimic, right, So you know,
I could drop my kid off with a great swing
(32:16):
and come back and you know it looked like a
broken pinge, and I'm going, what happened? And I looked
at the guy next time, and so I instructed him
if you can't either be at the end where you're
not looking at anyone, or it can't be where somebody
in front of you has a good swring and you
can recognize a good screaming then don't go hit golf balls, wait,
(32:38):
go chip and putt right, And so you know, you know,
invariably they run out of the balls. They've had their lunch.
So what do they do. They've got three balls and
they go and chip, hits putt. Yeah, create crazy games,
you know, hit crazy short shots. And they had no
idea why, but they were working on the short game. Yeah,
(33:02):
it was survival. Say ran out of money.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Right, yeah, exactly right. Okay, when we come back from
this commercial break, we're gonna also I want to talk
to you about expanding into other sports too, and then
we're gonna wrap this up with talking about how the
PGA of America is instrumental in getting people better or
hopefully instrumental in getting people better. This is the rich
Comwoll Golf Show. Welcome back to the rich conwallg Goof Show.
(33:25):
We were joined this week by Ted Simons. Ted was
instrumental and he still is instrumental in the expansion of
the Nicholas Academies and Nicholas Golf Academies. And before we
get back to golf specific, Ted, I know that you
did some some other sports as well. Tell me a
little bit about those.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, when we Uh we were developing Nicholas Academies and
one of the gentleman who was the CEO of Nicholas Academies,
wanted to band and create, if you will, a center
hub for sports academies as part of re estate developments
(34:09):
master playing communities, and so we were contracted with Mark Spitz.
This is before Michael Phelps took off the Mark Spitz.
We had Jim Currier for tennis. We had Mia Hamm,
Brandy Chastain and Julie Saudi for soccer, and then through
(34:29):
my relationships, we had what was called a Free Motion
Fitness academy. So we would take golf, swim, tennis, soccer, fitness,
with fitness being the hub and really, if you will,
cross train these sports kind of like the good old
days of people have a certain generation that played multi sports.
(34:55):
You didn't think about it. Yeah, you played baseball, you
played tennis, you swam, you did all of these things.
I think hil Irwin was famous for saying, you know
the reason he's a good golfer is he was a
defensive back in college. Ye Jack played multiple sports, and
(35:15):
so we would use you know, we would use these
academies to run We could certainly train someone that was
focused only on golf or swim, but we would tack
our golfers to put him in the swimming pool, and
because there's nothing better to elongate both and train both
sides of the body. Where golf is very dysfunctional, you know,
(35:38):
you put him out there. There's a motion in kicking
a soccer ball properly that is very closely related to
how your hips work in the golf swim, not to
mention just the cardio side of things in coordination tennis.
I mean, that's a tennis racket.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Is your club face right, exactly right, exactly right.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
You're hitting a slice, need a top spin, whatever it
may be. So you teach people how to manipulate a
tennis racket and the tennis ball and then put a
club in their hand which is smaller and further away
from you with a smaller ball. Yeah, there's a correlation there.
So we used to use multiple sports to train golf,
(36:21):
or golf to train soccer or whatever it may be.
And I think you know, any club or any development
that can incorporate multi sport into their offering for the
members or the residents, whatever it may be, you're going
to end up with better rounded and in many cases,
(36:44):
physically healthier people because they aren't just isolated on one
movement pattern.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, that's interesting you brought that. That's a lot. Yeah,
I'll pet you. That was because you brought up that
multi sport thing. You know, I was a very small child.
My father told me, he's like, you know, you know,
Mike Ditkub was unbelievably good college football player and professional
football player. He's like, well, you know, you don't understand it.
As he wrestled and he played basketball pet as well
as football. That's what you do, you go play and
(37:15):
it's so so you had Spitz? Was was Mark Spitz
a really good guy? I mean because he seemed to
me always be like a really really humble kind of
like guy.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Mark Spitz when you got to know him, was just
absolutely lights out enjoyable to be with. Yeah. He you
won't talk about a motivational speaker. This this student can
take down an audience. He is. He was fantastic. That's yeah,
And you know I was. I was fortunate that I had,
(37:47):
if you will, the Mike Alaska for the Mark Spitz
scrim Academy. You know, a director of instructions that you know,
nobody swam like Mark, right, Yeah, but you get back
to fundamentals, which in the swimming was lying posture balance, right, Okay,
now relate that to golf. It's it's the same, getting
(38:08):
back to fundamentals. I had a great coach, director of
instruction for tennis that was I mean, he was he
was Captain Fun. I mean, this guy just had more
energy and he put fun in the game while teaching
at any level including US Davis Cups and national teams
(38:29):
in high level college. But then the girls, you know,
I called them the girls. I was so fortunate that
they wanted to be hands on. They had just recently
retired and they were bringing all of their experience from
you from college, from the national team for the table
(38:50):
and you know, putting together drills and how we run
five year olds to drills. These girls were so hands
on that it was just an absolute blast. But getting
back to Mark, Yeah, just a just a fantastic, fantastic guy,
you know, like like mister Nicholas. You know, once you
(39:13):
get to know him, then they gain your trust.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Right right, Yeah, Because yeah, I would think that I
would think that that those people, especially as you said,
the girls, I especially think them, uh specifically in the
in the span of who we're talking about is I
would tend to believe they would probably be a little
bit more guarded until they kind of got to know you,
and then then once they were, they were they were unguarded,
(39:36):
so to speak. They were probably all awesome people. They
probably I have no doubt they are awesome people because
they're awesome.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Was there was so much fun hanging out with them
and you were talking about pocket smack, Yeah, I mean
it was. It was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, that's that's that's awesome. That's awesome. So all right,
so all right, so let's go let's circle back for
let's circle back to golf because because obviously I love
the I love the cross reference of the cross sport
reference because it's you know, I have a junior program
starting in a couple of weeks and I think there's
forty to fifty kids in it, and they're all six, seven,
(40:16):
eight years old, and I know they've all probably played
with a ball, baseball, hit a tennis ball, whatever, and
we're going to talk about a lot of that because
it's like, you know, this is not unique, this is
an athletic sport. And it's it's not unique to itself.
You know, when we were growing up, it was kind
of looked at like, you know, old band sport, right,
(40:36):
But yeah, but you know, not, it's not it's not
I mean you I mean you walk on a range
now and even in the high school event, college event.
These kids are athletes. I mean they're athletic, they're big,
they're strong, they're fast, and now it's now it's and
I can get the if I know that I can
(40:58):
get these kids engaged in the same way because it's
like it's it's a it's a sport. It's a lot
of fun. It's just not a team sport, right, you know,
per se, but it can be. But I just think
it's fun and fun and athleticism and things like that.
And and and I also think that if I can
(41:19):
get them that way, you get them interested in a sport,
not a game, but a sport, I think I can
get them on the right track, so to speak. You know,
I think the first the first thought is is fun
and activity, you know, and you know, we'll probably jump
through jump you know, we'll do we'll do warm ups
(41:39):
and we'll throw you throw a ball around a little
bit and kind of get the blood flow and then
we'll start talking about those those activities. But so, all right,
so I want to I want to ask you this question,
and you mentioned it before, and I have no no
predetermined agenda here. I I'm I'm a pg professional, actually
a certified PJ professional, And it's really interesting to me
(42:02):
that I'm gonna say this out loud. I'm not so
sure that I know for a fact we do not
train the PGA of America does not trained people to
teach very well at all. And I say that with
all due respect, that all that there are very good
(42:23):
teachers who are PJ professionals, very good teachers, I mean,
some of the best teachers I know, but there are
some teachers that are there are guys that just are
not interested in teaching. And I just always thought that
if you could teach people to have a little bit
more fun, get a little bit better, they'd come around
more and they spend a little bit more money. Everybody
would make a little bit more money, and life would
(42:44):
be a little bit better. So I want your take
on that. I mean, I know it's anna really open
ended thing, but I mean, does that make sense? I mean,
why wouldn't we teach these guys to be really really
good teachers?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Is maybe the million dollar question. You know, we can
go back to when we talked about, you know, recruiting
instructors to come to a Necklace Academy, and you know,
I've got I called. You know, I got some great
instructors in my stable that just chose not to become
(43:21):
PGA Brooks. And in some cases I could not get
them hired at the facility because they didn't have the
badge and they didn't have the logo on their business card.
And it was like, Okay, well that's unfortunate because these
individuals have a passion, They can communicate, they can entertain,
(43:43):
you know, they make the game enjoyable. And I go
back to a facility that I used to work with
and I had a lot of a lot of golf
balls at in Parks of Utah, and they did a
great job bringing in summer interns. And then you thoughts
in the mountains, it's a summer export, and so they
(44:05):
would bring in some PGM, you know, students's interns and
I'm out there hitting balls working on my game, you know,
because there's a great range and tree, right but I would,
I would become you know, you know, I would chat
it up with the interns. I would go, hey, often
how often you play? You know, maybe once every other week?
(44:29):
How often do you hit balls? Once or twice a week?
I'm going it isn't what Why aren't you participating in
the game that you're going to make a living app?
It's more than the pro shop, It's more than outside services,
you know, get you know, get outside to appreciate what
(44:50):
your members are are going through and learn how to teach.
And it was it was shocking the number that just
had no interest in it. And so that's why even
though we hired you know, PGA for members to work
(45:11):
for us, you know, we you know, we devoted a
lot of time and attention to teaching our curriculum because
in many cases they did really come with a great
tool set.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah, I think I think that's kind of where I started.
I think that's what concerns me because I know that
I went through the old school where you went to
business school. One I went to Naples, Then I went
to Philadelphia for business school too, went to an oral
interview and things like that, and I got a job.
I earned a job in Williams support Pennsylvania for a
PG professional monamed Tom Trophy, and he said to me,
he goes, go teach, and I went, but but he goes,
(45:50):
I don't want to hear. But you got to figure
this out, man, because people are gonna look at you,
look to you to make this place more enjoyable. That's
what they're gonna do. You know, he he's he is,
I'm a he goes, he told me flat, I gues,
I'm a really good merchandiser. I saw a lot of
merchandise and I run pretty good events. He goes, but
you know what if I didn't get these people to
(46:12):
enjoy this place more, in this game more, none of
that matters. So go teach, and he goes, Go make
a mistake, Go make go, go make mistakes. It's okay,
but you've got to learn to do this because for
the rest of your life, people can be looking at
you to make the game easier and more fun and
give them a reason to show up. And I never
(46:35):
I never forgot that.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, can't agree, can't agree more? And you know, I
look at you, I obvious say. I read a lot
of golf news releases and stories and things and you know,
I see new you know, new director of golf to
new GM tires and yeah, I'm just saying, you know,
(47:01):
I don't I look at them and I go, yeah,
how often do those guys go out and play or
can they teach? You know? One of the requirements you know,
we had, you know, is you had to go play.
You had to you had to post a number because
if not, you don't know what your your students are thinking.
You can't relate to your students. You need to go
(47:22):
post a number. And if you're if you can't play that, well,
then you better work on your game because you know
you need to go out and play three holes with
the members for the students, and yeah you can, you know,
you can have to. You could up and work on
their games, but at the end of the day, they're
(47:43):
gonna they're gonna look at how you hit the ball,
how you put and you know, it's part of the brand.
And I'm gonna lie you with Nicholas, but it's part
of I think people's personal brand is this is who
you are. And if you leave Club A, Club B,
yeah you know that you're taking your brand with you.
(48:04):
And if you can teach and if you can play,
and if you merchandise and run events, that's all great,
but don't don't don't ignore the game for the business.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Right right. Well, I got to tell you, Ted, this
has been awesome, and I told you before it wouldn't
feel like fifty four minutes, but I think it was
so I thank you for being on the show. You
are actually a very I'm gonna I'm actually going to
get a hold of you outside of this because I
(48:37):
want to hear more stories about Mark Spetts because that's
a fascinating human being to me. But so so again,
thank you for being on the show, and I will
catch up with you probably in the fall. I'll have it.
I'll do a really fast bunch of phone calls at
the end of the end of the season. We'll wrap
up a bunch of different loose ends. But so if
it's you're okay with that, I'll give you a call
(48:58):
in the fall and we'll get back on here.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Shows like, I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Thank you, have a great day. This is the Rich
con Will Golf Show.
Welcome to the Rich Komwal Golf Show. This week we
are going to talk about We're gonna talk with a
very very very interesting man, by the way, Ted Simon's.
Ted has a really really really lengthy stay I'm not
trying to call him old, but a lengthy stay in
the golf business and a very very interesting developmental, developmental
(00:26):
aspect to the game of golf. So, uh, before we
get started with all that, Ted, thank you so much
for joining us this week.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
You betcha thank you for the invitation and look forward
to it.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
That's absolutely awesome. So as I start with everybody, you
know for those obviously not everybody knows this, but Ted
is not like a traditional junior golfer like you know,
start eight and start smacking around and playing all over
the region and things like that. But but kind of
give us a little bit of background Ted, like where
he started, where he grew up, you know, where he
went to college, all that fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh that good stuff. But yeah, I'm a I'm a
Western guy. Uh, lived in Utah, Idaho, Washington, Colorado, now
down in Scottsville, Arizona. But my introduction to golf actually
came through my mother. Her and one of her friends
decided to start playing golf. And I was twelve years old,
(01:22):
So what are you going to do with your kids?
So you dragged him along into the golf course. And
that's how that's how I got introduced to the game
of golf and played it socially, played with my buddies,
and played boob golf, played mentally golf, and just just
enjoyed the game. And you know, raised a couple of
(01:45):
a couple of kids that turned out to be pretty
good golfers too.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay. So and then as you got older and you
did all that nifty stuff. Where'd you go to college?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
University of Utah. I'm a I'm a youth. I mean,
you had a tough season last year, but uh, you know,
we'll be back. We'll be back.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So you're most So let's see Alex Smith, right, Rick
majeris all right, Rick majerriss, Yeah, and Alex Smith. Alex Smith.
And let's see Urban Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, he was there for a couple of years. So yeah,
we've uh, you know, we've had we've had some good
runs both in basketball and football, and so we're you know,
we're looking forward to getting back on the waiting track
with football basketball. Well, it seems to be a longer road.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, no, kid, No, I think it's a longer road
for everybody because I'm in Pittsburgh and you know what,
that's a long road. Okay. So you know, you go
to Utah. You know, how did you decide to get
in the golf business.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, I think the golf business found me. I showed
out in the ski and tennis industry that morphed into
the video and film production world. And with my network,
I naturally focused on sports and you know, got clients
like your Nick's Golf and Tennis, Yamaha Golf and Tennis.
(03:14):
Wilson's Sporting Goods was one of my one of my
major clients. And just through the course of time networking
being introduced different people, suddenly golf just came to be.
I was introduced to a gentleman by the name of
Mike Alaska and he was just coming out of an
(03:37):
agreement with Nicholas Golf Schools Nicolas Slick and wanted to
produce his own materials. So I was produced and directed
and wrote You Are Your Own Swing with Mike. And
from there, Mike introduced me to the Nicholas group and
(03:59):
their golfer can the means, and over the course of
a couple of years, I became the CEO and Executive
VP for Nicholas Academies worldwide.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Well there's a nice little jump, isn't it a nice
little jump?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
It never hurts, you know, hear the golden bear your
business card?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
No kidding, o kidding, So so when you go. So
that's so, that was a different arm than the Nicholas
Flick schools.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Correct, Correct, The Nicholas Flick Schools dissolved and there were
Nicholas Academies Nicholas golf centers already established in certain parts
of the world. And then you know, basically took that
model and what I know I would call the you know,
(04:47):
the evolution of high end golf construction with coaching studios
and integrated technologies, all of that is pretty much where
where we lad that?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Wow? And then so what kind of growth did would
did the academy? See? Under your direction, we went.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
From eight established academies to twenty eight in fourteen countries
and a lot of growth. Obviously in Asia, you know,
we rather the seven eight storm here, which which took
out a few locations that were primarily development related, but
(05:33):
you know, introducing and developing the game of golf in
you know, underserved countries, be it Asia, be it at
you know, to a certain level, Brazil was India was
a lot of fun, a lot of fun, a lot
of challenge. Has been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Right, So, so of all those countries, which is your favorite?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Oh yeah, that's picking between your children. I have great
memories with so many of them because of the relationships
you building in golf. But I would say, you know,
you know, I just had a tremendous experience developing a
really run of a kind academy in Hong Kong. And
(06:20):
my time in Hong Kong was was just really special memories.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
That's really neat. That's really neat. So so all right,
so as you are growing this, I mean, obviously I'm
going to ask about the guy whose names on the building, right, So,
how involved was Jack Nicholas and all this?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Uh, Jack would review our curriculum, and since he recommended
Mike Plaska to be the director of instruction worldwide, that
was a pretty easy play. Mike and mister Nicholas, which
spend class. I'm talking about how Jack approaches the game
(07:02):
of golf, Jack's philosophy, Jack's reliance on the fundamentals, and
Jack's appreciation that everybody swings the club differently, right, Yeah,
nobody swung the club like mister Nicholas, including his family,
And so why would you teach the way Jack swings
(07:23):
the club? But it always came back to the fundamentals, impact,
ball flight, not really sexy.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Stuff right right, that is interesting, but stuff that works
right right, It's interesting because so you know, you talk
about the fundamentals. I mean, he was he was massive
into that because even every year you go back and
see Jack growl and Jack Crow would just check his grip,
his alignment, his ball position, just like that. Not sexy
stuff that like makes everybody better, you know, and it's
(07:55):
you know, he was good at it.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
And so my responsibility, you know, were my vision is
how do we you know, how do we create an
r around the Jack Nicholas Academy at golf. You know,
you just can't say, oh, we teach the fundamentals and
charge a lot of money. You know, we created these
you know, high tech coaching studios before you know, video
(08:17):
and pressure mats and launch bounders were all integrated into
a single software platform, designed and built some beautiful academies
and driving ranges and learning centers, you know, to represent
the Nicholas brand on the globe level. And as I
(08:38):
used to say, Jack's designed obviously fantastic golf courses, and
you know, is the goat. People will debate it, but
I believe he's the goat. But the academies were the
only the only aspect that really touched the golfer, right
And you know, and I believe that with instructure, whether
(08:58):
it was a Nicholas academy or anybody's academy or just
an individual coach out there. Yeah, but those instructors that
really make the game easier to play, you know, I
believe the game is.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Stagnant, so right right, Yeah, It is interesting because you know,
I I'm in a very very very busy, semi private facility,
and you talk about make the game easier. I find
myself often questioning that if I I just don't know that,
I don't know that people I don't know. I can't
figure out how people view instruction. I own PG professional.
(09:40):
You know, I stand there, I look at people and
I'm like, why wouldn't you ask? It doesn't have to
be me. Why wouldn't you ask somebody for help? Because
it can't be fun to give people a lot of
money to just go and and just you know, like
you'd quit going to the baseball game if your team
never ever ever won? You know you why would why
(10:04):
would you? Why would you pay money to go play?
And I'm not saying I I think I can make everybody,
you know shoot seventy four, but like, why why would you?
Why would you go do that if you couldn't, if
you have no realistic chance of breaking one hundred, like
like and so like it's interesting when you talk like that,
like make it easier.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Well, you know, I think you know, you know, I
really have an opinion about making the game fun. You know,
nobody wants to be crappy like anything. And you know,
when you're out there struggling on the golf course, that's
not fun. You should be enjoying nature. You should be
enjoying the weather, your friends are, you know, the competition
(10:46):
or why however you're you know, why you're playing the game.
But if yeah, you're just sitting there topping balls, hitting
him fat knock him in, Like when you walk off,
you've spent you know, hopefully less four and a half hours,
got less than one hundred and fifty bucks, and you
didn't have a good time. So why don't you take
(11:08):
a lesson? Why don't you at least get the ball
in the air and work with somebody that understands you're
not going to go out and you know, shoot seventy
two got started. If you could, you know, power a
couple levels. Wow, that's that's a win, right.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And it's it's like you shoot, you shoot, you know,
you shoot ninety four, you feel like you know, I
have I have a son and he's just graduated from
Ohio State and and and he's just kind of starting
to because he played lacrosse for a long time and
he's started to play. He's like, you know, I asked him,
I said, well, what do you how good you want
to be? Because if I could break if I could
(11:46):
break ninety, I'll feel like I won the Masters. Like, okay,
that's a realistic goal we can do. You're an athlete,
you're a twenty two year old kid. You can move
a golf club a little bit. We can do that.
But like if he ever said to me, I don't
want I don't want to get any better. I just
want to shoot ninety eight all the time. Like what
do you what are you doing? Like why would you
do that? Like why would you do that? Like like
(12:08):
like that's like when you get why would you go
to the Why would you go volunteer for a root
canal with no novacate? That makes no sense to me.
I don't understand why people do it.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah. When I was traveling, traveling the world and standing
at driving range and watching people, I would just go, yeah,
we will never run out of clients.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yes, yes, we will never ever.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Run out of clients. So you know, it's how do
we reach them? How do we you know, what is
it that triggers somebody could just be one one swing
thought that triggers that that player to suddenly go oh
I get it. Yeah yeah, And that's that's why, you know,
you know, I'm not obviously a big proponent of teaching
(12:56):
a single method because we're all built, we're all wired different. Yeah,
but gush trin if you can, uh, you know, if
you can get that club face back to the golf call,
get it in the air and going towards your intended target,
you win. You know, for most people, that's.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
What we're in you win. Like I tol, I do
a lot of I do a lot of ladies clinics,
and I tell them all beginners because it's that he's wrong, clinic.
Anything the guy ever told you is wrong except for
me and my The first thing I say to him
is like, look, you will never, ever, ever, nobody in
this discussion right now that we're having right now with
you twelve ladies and myself is ever going to play
golf on TV. So just eliminate it right now. So now,
(13:36):
once we do that, let's set some realistic goals. What
we want to do. We want to have a little
bit of fun, we want to play with our friends,
we want to get outside, we want to get away
from a telephone, and let's go do that. And I
just I just can't, for the life of me, I
can't figure out why people won't ask for help. I
don't I don't know. I know. I know obviously you
(13:57):
don't know the answer either, because you would, you would
tell me. But I just don't understand. I just don't
understand why.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, sometimes you know, not ask for help or not
even accept it, because that's not the norm. I remember
years ago playing and somebody was just bugging the ball
down the pairway and I said, tee it up. Yes,
(14:27):
well that's not the rules. Wait a minute, well are
you posting the scores you have an handicap. Well no,
but you're not supposed to cheat the ball in the pairway.
I said, do it. Next thing, you know, you get
a bogie, I don't forbid you get a par and
suddenly the game is fun instead of picking up after
(14:48):
nine topped and fat shots and going why am I
out here? So yeah, if you're going to go get
a andicap, play the ball down, if you're going to
go out, and even as a good player, if you're
working on the screen, change, take your ground out of play,
give yourself a little bit of room to get that
club face back to the ball on its intended swing path.
(15:12):
And you know, heavn't forbid if you know, if you've
got a slicing work, can I working on getting the drop? Yeah?
He had up once in a while, and yeah, dang it.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, let me right right. Let resistance go away, you know,
because the goal is to get better, and that's that's
crazy to me. All right, So all right, so right
now I've kind of got you in a situation where
you have you've developed this, this, these academies and things
like that. When we come back from this commercial break,
I want to talk to you about some of the
(15:44):
things that you've seen done with with teaching and some
technology and things like that. This is the Rich Combo
Golf Show. Welcome back to Rich Combo Golf Show. We
are joined this week by Ted Simon's or we're joined
with Ted Simons. And Ted was basically instrumental in expanding
(16:06):
the Nicholas Academy across the world, not necessarily the teaching
part of it, but actually the development of the programs
and the and the academies in numerous countries fourteen countries
all over the world. So I guess my first question
for you, Ted, when we talk about this is tell
(16:27):
me about tell me about I know there are many successes,
but tell me about a failure that actually led to success.
This is interesting. This is kind of stuff we talk
about with my students in the game of golf and
things like that.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, you know, it's you know, I would say, you know,
my failures in many cases were related to making a
bad hire. Oh, because when I would go in and
you know, negotiate open an academy in Fingao, China, and
and the academy owner said, we want a we want
(17:09):
a PG have America professional. Oh okay, Well what about
just somebody's really good instructor that is passionate about the game. No,
we want to PG. Okay, all right, there's plenty of
good DGA instructors out there. So I put up you know,
(17:29):
I put up the message, do a lot of interviews,
and yeah, you just never know what you're going to
get until you know they're really in the fire. And
not specific to this project in China, but I've I've
made some hires for sometimes the director of instruction, but
(17:51):
even staff instructors, and you know, after you know, two
or three or six months or just going, they just
don't give it. They just don't get it. So what
did I do wrong in my hiring process or in
my training program? So where did I miss that I
(18:11):
did not get this particular teacher to understand how to
properly communicate to the instructor what their responsibilities are with
the academy and the coaching studio, those types of things.
So I would look at my mistakes from a staffing
(18:31):
standpoint and fix it so that the next time my
interview process was better, my research was better, my training
of them, an expectation of them was better. So, you know,
the fame is golf instruction. It comes down to communication.
(18:51):
So I made assumptions and those assumptions were not right.
I learned from my mistakes when it came to came
to you know, hiring and training. But the instructors who
don't represent me, they represent mister Nicholas, and that's you know,
(19:12):
that's a lot of responsibility.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right right. So yeah, so that's interesting. So all right,
so recover from your and actually that probably allows you
to expand a little faster than you thought you would
because once you kind of I don't say weed out,
because I'm not trying to say weed anybody out because everybody, Unfortunately,
I think a lot of people in this country have
lost a job. And it's not good when somebody comes
in and say, okay, you don't have that job anymore.
(19:34):
But but it's interesting. So all right, So how hard
how hard did you recruit instructors or was it was?
Because it was the Nicholas Academy was and it was
a kind of a fundamental based, communication based environment how
difficult was it to find people to do it?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, you know, it comes down to you know, especially
when you're if you're in the States, it's very easy,
right if you if you're you know, if you've got
your eyes set on somebody that said the director of
instruction in Utah and you think they're a great hand
that to move to Bend, Oregon, all right, you know
(20:21):
that one, That one's relatively easy if you if the
compensation package and everything else is adequate. You know, when
you asked somebody to move from the Bay Area to
the middle of China, that's a little bit more of
a challenge. So so when it comes to looking for instructors,
(20:43):
and again going back, I ran into a beautiful candidate,
uh you, as far as credentials and personality and the
way they carried themselves for for our Hong Kong. So
but she would not teach anything but sack and tilt.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Oh god, sorry.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Okay, well what again, our philosophy is not difficult to
convert to. So that's all we would ask, is you
teach our philosophy, and you know you have a job,
which was really a great job. And she she would
not back off of teaching sack and tilt, which is
(21:28):
fundamentally not where we go. And so it's like, you know, yeah, sorry,
you know this one's not going to work. So from
time to time you ran into philosophical uh differences where
they had in their mind a teaching philosophy that worked
for them, but it just didn't match with us.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah. So so a lot it was more vetting than anything,
because you had to kind of get you had to
get to the point where you could unearth all those
nifty things. I'll tell you, that's the first time I've
heard stack and tat in a while. Wow. That was interesting.
That was that was a flashback right there. Holy cow.
I remember standing at the at the Pretze Facility Augusta
National watching Mike Weir work through that, and I was like,
(22:14):
I was like, you know, he's asking those guys teaching him,
that's questions. You could see him his hands moving, and
you know we've all been there, You've watched it. Guys
asking questions. They're not sure what you're telling him. And
I was like, man, he cannot be happy with this
right now, and and and honestly I don't think he was.
I mean, I never talked to him about it. But
(22:36):
it's just interesting you brought up stack and tote, because
every time I hear those those three words, I go, oh, Mike,
we're augusta national. That did not look like it was
going well. So so it's a great drill.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It's a great drill.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It is a great trill. It is a great show.
Swing away from your wait, swing back your weight, swing
away from your wait, swing back to your weight. It
eliminates a lot of motion. It really does. It really does.
It poses the club face. It's good, but not to
play the game.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
It's a little challenge. It's a little challenging on uneven
lies and on your spine.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, actually it becomes and I'll tell you right now,
I think it's more challenging on your spine than uneven lies.
I'm telling you right now, because you start doing that
to your spine and your spine starts talking really really
bad language back to you.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
So all right, So if you got if you have
the PT center, you knows that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
If if that's right, if you're attached to the physical
therapy center, we're all going to be okay. So let
me ask you this, all right, So I'm I'm sure
that you're very very very very proud of of some
of the guys that you that you hired. Who are
they like to anybody? Do we know them? I mean,
they're probably pretty famous right now.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
No, because we read I mean, we did not work
with per se tour players. Worked with obviously a lot
of junior development, right but in most cases the new
Niicrous academies were at you know, high end facilities. You're
catering to some rather well to do people, and you know,
(24:17):
depending on the facility, you're you know, you're an amenity
that is there to take care of the members. Yes,
our goal is to make them better, but ultimately it's
making the game fund so they enjoyed their membership, so
they spend more money in the restaurants and the pro
shops and paying their membership dues. So, you know, great.
(24:42):
Obviously Mike Alaska leading the leading the ship, which was
actually part of our my recruitment process is you know,
Mike and I developed the curriculum. You know, WHI Jack's approval.
So you know, you get uh, you know, basically be
trained as part of your job by by Mike, who's
(25:05):
who's pretty good but great, great instructor but you would
never do him. Billy Martin who worked for me in Japan, Korea, China,
Hong Kong. He's now back in Orlando. Uh Pud Baker
Canadian was worked for me in in Canada and Guam,
(25:28):
of all places, he's back in Canada. Seth Glasgow to
the little Nicholas Flick guy. He worked for me in Vegas,
did some training in Vietnam. So we've Doug Roberts in Utah.
So we've got we've got some really good instructors out there,
(25:49):
but they were never poor.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Guys, right right, So so that's interesting, that's really cool.
That's the way you put that is again, it goes
back to what you said, we for make the game fun,
make it more enjoyable, make it a little bit more understandable,
and then things get better for everybody. It's just it's
amazing to me that that well again, I'm I'm gonna
(26:12):
start harping on the guy that can't break a hundred
and won't ask for help. It's just it can't be fun.
I mean, how can this can be fun? Yeah? I
think I think that's the best thing about kids.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, you know, I feel like we're selling an experience,
all right, yeah, and that experience. You know, if you
go to a restaurant and you don't have a good experience,
you don't go back, right, So you always want to
make sure that you create that experience, and part of
that experience is making the game enjoyable and a level
(26:44):
of success or whoever is standing in front of.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
You right right their their goal first. Not well that's
how you said before. You know, you can't teach anybody,
you know. The old saying is. You know, my son
for when he was younger, he wanted to play hot
and I said to him, I said, well, all you
do is just get like Sidney Crosby, like you know,
that's like, oh, if you want to play golf like
Jack Nicholas, just swinging like him. No, no, no, we're
(27:09):
not doing that. You know, no, nobody can do that,
like you know, and then and then you have you know,
people sayd Chambeau, I'm going to do this. No you're not. No,
you're not. No, you're not, because there's only one guy
that can do that, and that's the guy who's doing
it right. You can't, you can't do that. So how
much short game did you guys do?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Uh? No. Proviously, you know, we focused a great deal
on the short game. In a perfect scenario, Now, if
we can get a player and we can start with
a putting stroke and work our way back through the
bag to driver, you have a tremendous amount of success.
Because if you can't wear the club up the ball
(27:52):
up to the club face for the putt, what are
you doing swinging out of your shoes for the driver?
And so if we work with the shortest club used
to be in your bag and the shortest stroke, you know,
and work your way back from putting to chipping to
pitching to full swing, you had tremendous amount of success
(28:17):
because everything was related to impact. You know, when you
can find the sweet spot, the game is inherently more
enjoyable and more fun. And so that's you know, that's
really where we could do it. And when we did
golf schools, if we had small groups, you know, we
(28:37):
could we could work that flow from cutting the full
swing and have much more greater success in the short
period of time.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
That is interesting because you have you know, because.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Everybody wants to shoot a lower score, everybody wants a
lower handicap. Therefore, where are you Where are you throwing
your strokes away. It's it's inside of one hundred hundred
and twenty five yards, right, Well, let's focus there.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, because you if you look at that, if you
look at the operation thirty six, the junior thing they start.
We start at the at the green and work backwards
and you shoot thirty six yards thirty six from twenty
five yards. And that's funny because I've done that program
and it's it's really interesting you say that because you
know if people say, well, you know, timmy, little Timmy here,
he's you only to play from twenty five yards, Well,
(29:27):
when Timmy shoots thirty six from twenty five yards for
nine holes, Timmy can play a little bit. Because I'm
going to tell you right now, Dad, you'd have trouble
shooting thirty six from twenty five yards, you really would.
People don't. People don't realize it, you know, and especially fifty,
especially fifty, because I'm telling you right now. You know,
(29:49):
hey Dad, you know it's fifty yards. Well I can
do this, then do it? Wait? I don't know. Yeah,
I know, you don't know. Because you if you start close,
work backwards. The worst thing you can do is give
a little kid driver. I mean, I mean literally literally
the worst thing you can do unless you want the
(30:10):
kid to hate the game.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, I go back to you know, my one of
my sons in junior golf in Utah. And you know
one of the kids you played Utah Junior Golf Association
with was Daniel summer Hays. Yeah, and you know there's
a little short, ish, stout young man eight nine years old.
(30:35):
Everybody else drives him. Everybody it's further, and Daniel beats
the pants off everybody because that little bugger. They get
up and down from anywhere. And I'm looking at my
my who won today? Well I knew who won, but
who won today? Summer? Hey, how do you beat you
(30:58):
short game? Right?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Okay, let's talk about Yeah, exactly, you might. You can't
beat them, join them, and you're right, you're exactly. Skip
Skip Kendol is the same way. Skip Kendl's the same
way Skip Kendel, you know, not Skip Kettle a very
good player, obviously, but Skip would never go and nobody
ever go, oh my god, he hits it so well.
He does hit it well. But I'll tell you what.
(31:20):
He misses a green. We're okay, he's not worried about
that he's got you.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, I mean yeah, And again this goes back to
you know the oldest when you could do this. But
I give my boys five dollars each, drop him off
at a golf course, public golf course in Utah, and
they could get a small bucket of the balls, hot
dog bag of chips.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Out of the coke right, exactly exactly, and I.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Would cut fans. I said, I will be back in
four hours.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
So use your balls wisely exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, this is all, this is all you've got. And
so they learned, you know, they learned how to how
to appreciate time on the range, because every ball was
a wasted ball. Where was set up? Who to be
looking at? Because kids just mimic, right, So you know,
I could drop my kid off with a great swing
(32:16):
and come back and you know it looked like a
broken pinge, and I'm going, what happened? And I looked
at the guy next time, and so I instructed him
if you can't either be at the end where you're
not looking at anyone, or it can't be where somebody
in front of you has a good swring and you
can recognize a good screaming then don't go hit golf balls, wait,
(32:38):
go chip and putt right, And so you know, you know,
invariably they run out of the balls. They've had their lunch.
So what do they do. They've got three balls and
they go and chip, hits putt. Yeah, create crazy games,
you know, hit crazy short shots. And they had no
idea why, but they were working on the short game. Yeah,
(33:02):
it was survival. Say ran out of money.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Right, yeah, exactly right. Okay, when we come back from
this commercial break, we're gonna also I want to talk
to you about expanding into other sports too, and then
we're gonna wrap this up with talking about how the
PGA of America is instrumental in getting people better or
hopefully instrumental in getting people better. This is the rich
Comwoll Golf Show. Welcome back to the rich conwallg Goof Show.
(33:25):
We were joined this week by Ted Simons. Ted was
instrumental and he still is instrumental in the expansion of
the Nicholas Academies and Nicholas Golf Academies. And before we
get back to golf specific, Ted, I know that you
did some some other sports as well. Tell me a
little bit about those.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, when we Uh we were developing Nicholas Academies and
one of the gentleman who was the CEO of Nicholas Academies,
wanted to band and create, if you will, a center
hub for sports academies as part of re estate developments
(34:09):
master playing communities, and so we were contracted with Mark Spitz.
This is before Michael Phelps took off the Mark Spitz.
We had Jim Currier for tennis. We had Mia Hamm,
Brandy Chastain and Julie Saudi for soccer, and then through
(34:29):
my relationships, we had what was called a Free Motion
Fitness academy. So we would take golf, swim, tennis, soccer, fitness,
with fitness being the hub and really, if you will,
cross train these sports kind of like the good old
days of people have a certain generation that played multi sports.
(34:55):
You didn't think about it. Yeah, you played baseball, you
played tennis, you swam, you did all of these things.
I think hil Irwin was famous for saying, you know
the reason he's a good golfer is he was a
defensive back in college. Ye Jack played multiple sports, and
(35:15):
so we would use you know, we would use these
academies to run We could certainly train someone that was
focused only on golf or swim, but we would tack
our golfers to put him in the swimming pool, and
because there's nothing better to elongate both and train both
sides of the body. Where golf is very dysfunctional, you know,
(35:38):
you put him out there. There's a motion in kicking
a soccer ball properly that is very closely related to
how your hips work in the golf swim, not to
mention just the cardio side of things in coordination tennis.
I mean, that's a tennis racket.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Is your club face right, exactly right, exactly right.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
You're hitting a slice, need a top spin, whatever it
may be. So you teach people how to manipulate a
tennis racket and the tennis ball and then put a
club in their hand which is smaller and further away
from you with a smaller ball. Yeah, there's a correlation there.
So we used to use multiple sports to train golf,
(36:21):
or golf to train soccer or whatever it may be.
And I think you know, any club or any development
that can incorporate multi sport into their offering for the
members or the residents, whatever it may be, you're going
to end up with better rounded and in many cases,
(36:44):
physically healthier people because they aren't just isolated on one
movement pattern.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, that's interesting you brought that. That's a lot. Yeah,
I'll pet you. That was because you brought up that
multi sport thing. You know, I was a very small child.
My father told me, he's like, you know, you know,
Mike Ditkub was unbelievably good college football player and professional
football player. He's like, well, you know, you don't understand it.
As he wrestled and he played basketball pet as well
as football. That's what you do, you go play and
(37:15):
it's so so you had Spitz? Was was Mark Spitz
a really good guy? I mean because he seemed to
me always be like a really really humble kind of
like guy.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Mark Spitz when you got to know him, was just
absolutely lights out enjoyable to be with. Yeah. He you
won't talk about a motivational speaker. This this student can
take down an audience. He is. He was fantastic. That's yeah,
And you know I was. I was fortunate that I had,
(37:47):
if you will, the Mike Alaska for the Mark Spitz
scrim Academy. You know, a director of instructions that you know,
nobody swam like Mark, right, Yeah, but you get back
to fundamentals, which in the swimming was lying posture balance, right, Okay,
now relate that to golf. It's it's the same, getting
(38:08):
back to fundamentals. I had a great coach, director of
instruction for tennis that was I mean, he was he
was Captain Fun. I mean, this guy just had more
energy and he put fun in the game while teaching
at any level including US Davis Cups and national teams
(38:29):
in high level college. But then the girls, you know,
I called them the girls. I was so fortunate that
they wanted to be hands on. They had just recently
retired and they were bringing all of their experience from
you from college, from the national team for the table
(38:50):
and you know, putting together drills and how we run
five year olds to drills. These girls were so hands
on that it was just an absolute blast. But getting
back to Mark, Yeah, just a just a fantastic, fantastic guy,
you know, like like mister Nicholas. You know, once you
(39:13):
get to know him, then they gain your trust.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Right right, Yeah, Because yeah, I would think that I
would think that that those people, especially as you said,
the girls, I especially think them, uh specifically in the
in the span of who we're talking about is I
would tend to believe they would probably be a little
bit more guarded until they kind of got to know you,
and then then once they were, they were they were unguarded,
(39:36):
so to speak. They were probably all awesome people. They
probably I have no doubt they are awesome people because
they're awesome.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Was there was so much fun hanging out with them
and you were talking about pocket smack, Yeah, I mean
it was. It was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, that's that's that's awesome. That's awesome. So all right,
so all right, so let's go let's circle back for
let's circle back to golf because because obviously I love
the I love the cross reference of the cross sport
reference because it's you know, I have a junior program
starting in a couple of weeks and I think there's
forty to fifty kids in it, and they're all six, seven,
(40:16):
eight years old, and I know they've all probably played
with a ball, baseball, hit a tennis ball, whatever, and
we're going to talk about a lot of that because
it's like, you know, this is not unique, this is
an athletic sport. And it's it's not unique to itself.
You know, when we were growing up, it was kind
of looked at like, you know, old band sport, right,
(40:36):
But yeah, but you know, not, it's not it's not
I mean you I mean you walk on a range
now and even in the high school event, college event.
These kids are athletes. I mean they're athletic, they're big,
they're strong, they're fast, and now it's now it's and
I can get the if I know that I can
(40:58):
get these kids engaged in the same way because it's
like it's it's a it's a sport. It's a lot
of fun. It's just not a team sport, right, you know,
per se, but it can be. But I just think
it's fun and fun and athleticism and things like that.
And and and I also think that if I can
(41:19):
get them that way, you get them interested in a sport,
not a game, but a sport, I think I can
get them on the right track, so to speak. You know,
I think the first the first thought is is fun
and activity, you know, and you know, we'll probably jump
through jump you know, we'll do we'll do warm ups
(41:39):
and we'll throw you throw a ball around a little
bit and kind of get the blood flow and then
we'll start talking about those those activities. But so, all right,
so I want to I want to ask you this question,
and you mentioned it before, and I have no no
predetermined agenda here. I I'm I'm a pg professional, actually
a certified PJ professional, And it's really interesting to me
(42:02):
that I'm gonna say this out loud. I'm not so
sure that I know for a fact we do not
train the PGA of America does not trained people to
teach very well at all. And I say that with
all due respect, that all that there are very good
(42:23):
teachers who are PJ professionals, very good teachers, I mean,
some of the best teachers I know, but there are
some teachers that are there are guys that just are
not interested in teaching. And I just always thought that
if you could teach people to have a little bit
more fun, get a little bit better, they'd come around
more and they spend a little bit more money. Everybody
would make a little bit more money, and life would
(42:44):
be a little bit better. So I want your take
on that. I mean, I know it's anna really open
ended thing, but I mean, does that make sense? I mean,
why wouldn't we teach these guys to be really really
good teachers?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Is maybe the million dollar question. You know, we can
go back to when we talked about, you know, recruiting
instructors to come to a Necklace Academy, and you know,
I've got I called. You know, I got some great
instructors in my stable that just chose not to become
(43:21):
PGA Brooks. And in some cases I could not get
them hired at the facility because they didn't have the
badge and they didn't have the logo on their business card.
And it was like, Okay, well that's unfortunate because these
individuals have a passion, They can communicate, they can entertain,
(43:43):
you know, they make the game enjoyable. And I go
back to a facility that I used to work with
and I had a lot of a lot of golf
balls at in Parks of Utah, and they did a
great job bringing in summer interns. And then you thoughts
in the mountains, it's a summer export, and so they
(44:05):
would bring in some PGM, you know, students's interns and
I'm out there hitting balls working on my game, you know,
because there's a great range and tree, right but I would,
I would become you know, you know, I would chat
it up with the interns. I would go, hey, often
how often you play? You know, maybe once every other week?
(44:29):
How often do you hit balls? Once or twice a week?
I'm going it isn't what Why aren't you participating in
the game that you're going to make a living app?
It's more than the pro shop, It's more than outside services,
you know, get you know, get outside to appreciate what
(44:50):
your members are are going through and learn how to teach.
And it was it was shocking the number that just
had no interest in it. And so that's why even
though we hired you know, PGA for members to work
(45:11):
for us, you know, we you know, we devoted a
lot of time and attention to teaching our curriculum because
in many cases they did really come with a great
tool set.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah, I think I think that's kind of where I started.
I think that's what concerns me because I know that
I went through the old school where you went to
business school. One I went to Naples, Then I went
to Philadelphia for business school too, went to an oral
interview and things like that, and I got a job.
I earned a job in Williams support Pennsylvania for a
PG professional monamed Tom Trophy, and he said to me,
he goes, go teach, and I went, but but he goes,
(45:50):
I don't want to hear. But you got to figure
this out, man, because people are gonna look at you,
look to you to make this place more enjoyable. That's
what they're gonna do. You know, he he's he is,
I'm a he goes, he told me flat, I gues,
I'm a really good merchandiser. I saw a lot of
merchandise and I run pretty good events. He goes, but
you know what if I didn't get these people to
(46:12):
enjoy this place more, in this game more, none of
that matters. So go teach, and he goes, Go make
a mistake, Go make go, go make mistakes. It's okay,
but you've got to learn to do this because for
the rest of your life, people can be looking at
you to make the game easier and more fun and
give them a reason to show up. And I never
(46:35):
I never forgot that.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, can't agree, can't agree more? And you know, I
look at you, I obvious say. I read a lot
of golf news releases and stories and things and you know,
I see new you know, new director of golf to
new GM tires and yeah, I'm just saying, you know,
(47:01):
I don't I look at them and I go, yeah,
how often do those guys go out and play or
can they teach? You know? One of the requirements you know,
we had, you know, is you had to go play.
You had to you had to post a number because
if not, you don't know what your your students are thinking.
You can't relate to your students. You need to go
(47:22):
post a number. And if you're if you can't play that, well,
then you better work on your game because you know
you need to go out and play three holes with
the members for the students, and yeah you can, you know,
you can have to. You could up and work on
their games, but at the end of the day, they're
(47:43):
gonna they're gonna look at how you hit the ball,
how you put and you know, it's part of the brand.
And I'm gonna lie you with Nicholas, but it's part
of I think people's personal brand is this is who
you are. And if you leave Club A, Club B,
yeah you know that you're taking your brand with you.
(48:04):
And if you can teach and if you can play,
and if you merchandise and run events, that's all great,
but don't don't don't ignore the game for the business.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Right right. Well, I got to tell you, Ted, this
has been awesome, and I told you before it wouldn't
feel like fifty four minutes, but I think it was
so I thank you for being on the show. You
are actually a very I'm gonna I'm actually going to
get a hold of you outside of this because I
(48:37):
want to hear more stories about Mark Spetts because that's
a fascinating human being to me. But so so again,
thank you for being on the show, and I will
catch up with you probably in the fall. I'll have it.
I'll do a really fast bunch of phone calls at
the end of the end of the season. We'll wrap
up a bunch of different loose ends. But so if
it's you're okay with that, I'll give you a call
(48:58):
in the fall and we'll get back on here.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Shows like, I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Thank you, have a great day. This is the Rich
con Will Golf Show.
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