The Rich Conwell Show - November 9, 2024

Rich is joined by Terry Koehler, the Chairman & Director of Innovation at Edison Golf Company, to discuss the equipment aspect of the game, with an emphasis on wedges and how far they've progressed.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the rich Conwall Golf Show. I am very,
very very excited this week, coming off of last week,
as if everybody who listens knows that we had a
National Football League player on to talk about some mental
strength and some mental development in terms of.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Sports.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
This week, we have an innovator in the golf business.
This is this is a really really i've known. Our
guest this week is Terry Terry Kaylor. He has been
I've known Terry for a while longer than probably both
of us want to admit. But Terry has a really, really,

(00:43):
really innovative brain and a really innovative view of the
golf business in the golf industry, and an equipment and
I'm just really excited to get into all this. I've
been going back and forth with some emails. Terry did
say to me, you know, there's a lot going on
with this, with this in this hour, so we're going
to kind of get to it pretty quickly. But I

(01:04):
wanted to say, Terry, thanks for jumping on with us.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
No, it's nice to be here.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Riz, thanks for the invitation to tell my story and
help offers figure out how to cut some strokes off
their scores.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
I like that I like that, so as we do
with everybody. Terry, go ahead and tell us about your
starting golf.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
So I'm very blessed. I actually don't remember life before golf.
I grew up on a little nine hole golf course
in South Texas with the father that was a very
good player. My older brother became a good player. So
I literally do not remember life before golf. And so
we have grown up that little nine hole golf course
and a lot of foolage from my father, and in

(01:43):
the nineteen fifties, we're very blessed that play out PGA
professional leaving at the little nine hold courses, which you
don't see very often anymore. And I found out later
in a lot of our golf boat Carl Augustison had
been as sister pro Harvey Pinnick at Austin Country Club.
And so when Argy Phenix's little read book came out,
my brother and I were both like, wow, this is

(02:04):
the same stuff we were told when.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
We were kids.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
That that was pretty cool, and we had great instruction
and our life was a revolver around the old nine
hole golf course. I remember Friday night putting steining games
on the light and putting green and you know, going
basically could be out there with puff for Nichols, you know,
and that was really blessed for that kind of growing
up in a great little town and so life was

(02:28):
always Golf was always part of my life, and along
with salt fishing and bourbon and Dreaaten and all the
things I did with my dad. I went off to
Texas A and M and really didn't pursue college top.
I had some scholarship offers at smaller schools, but it
was always kind of decent on being an aggie and
w A and M and cabout a degree in marketing

(02:50):
and went off into the ad agency world, you know,
and golf was always very important to me.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
It was very blessed to be achieve.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
A Scritch level known about the high school years and
maintain that proved of the sixty p leus years of
adult life.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Wow, that's that's actually interesting that that you say that
about the little Nighthole golf course had a PJ professional
and it doesn't You don't see that very much anymore
because you know, I'm a PG professional, and it fascinated
it astounds me as as a PG professional that more
golf courses do not have a PGA professional, and that

(03:31):
that is actually that's been a it's been a bothersome
to me from the very beginning, because you know, every
golf course and every growing golfer should have influence from
a PGA professional. And I don't know whether the PJ
of America doesn't believe me or they don't believe the
same things I do.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
But I'm you're a lucky guy to have that. You
really really were.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
I really have been extremely blessed and gotten to know.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
You know, a lot of.

Speaker 5 (04:00):
PGA professionals through my forty year.

Speaker 4 (04:02):
Golf industry career, and I've always been a big supporter.

Speaker 5 (04:05):
Of the PGA.

Speaker 4 (04:06):
And you know, I've built of green grass only golf
club company at one time and really envision doing that
again with Edison.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
It's the time.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
And I still I've been very quick and go to
a PGA professional when and I feel like I needed
need some health. I was just out with our new
head golf professional here at the club. You know, you
never get too old of that. I mean, I've written
and golf probably more than even a lot of PGA professionals.
But if you still need that another set of eyes
and my dad had a great thing and he still

(04:38):
one man round forget it, two man rounds, practice per rounds.
Go see it from.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
That's awesome. That's awesome, you know, And we all slip.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
I mean, looked at pg THROP players and nobody ever
gets it and keeps it forever. And even the best
players in the world have coaches and instructors that help
them figure out, you know, how to get better and
when things get a little side. And but I've met
people that are very proud of Oh I've never had listen,
what are your golf team shows that? Why?

Speaker 5 (05:06):
Why? Why are you not a failure?

Speaker 4 (05:08):
So why do you continue to struggle with this kind
of ball striking when you got.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
A PJ professional right there in the.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
Golf cop We can help you, you know.

Speaker 5 (05:17):
But uh, I think some.

Speaker 4 (05:18):
People just don't appreciate the value of of a of
a train set of eyeballs. I'm a I'm a huge
fan of what you do and your peers. They help
golfers get better if they want to.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
So okay, So you jump out of Texas A and
M with a marketing degree. So then when did you
when did you turn? When did you get into the
golf business.

Speaker 4 (05:39):
So I messed around in the car business and banking
for a little bit out of college. It wasn't really
my deal. I went in the ad agency business and
one of the first sales I was in San Antonio.
On the first sales calls I made, it was on
the ray Coat Comer company. I think, that's cool, there's
a golf company right here. I'm going to go do that.
And ended up with this very small Butter company in
their at account. And I was kind of more interested

(06:02):
in the back end of the shop. I mean, my
job was nailped and gross hills, which we did. But
I was always the kid. We reloaded ammunition, we took
our fish and reels apart, and we took our shotgowns apart.
I was always the kid, very enamored with the way
things work. And I looked back and like, why didn't
I get an engineering degree? But so I got to
know Prince Opris, who was the master craftsman in the

(06:22):
back of Brank Cook and I went up started meeting
other small golf companies. Odie Christman Putters out of the
Oi free chafter Putter Company out of Aladama, and and
we're Joe Powell down in Florida. That is the mohominal
for Simon Wood. And I just really got was very
blessed for people to tolerate all my questions about why

(06:43):
does the golf club.

Speaker 5 (06:43):
Do this and do that?

Speaker 4 (06:44):
And I learned about golf before the days lost monitors
and high speed cameras and all that with you know,
you had golf professionals telling you what they felt and
you and you worked off of that. And so that
was how I got my start in golf. And and
I was just any putters after the rapeook thing, I
was started designing putters and did some work for Merit

(07:06):
Golf out of Georgia, and then got recruited by the
Van Hoogen Company to create a lot of putters for them,
which was my first hint with Ben Hogan in the
early nineties. And when they just didn't understand what the
Ben Hogan Company was, I grew up with that brand
and so went off and started my first company, read Lockhart,
which you had mentioned back in the mid nineties.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah, so you've always been You've always been driven by technology,
basically innovation, technology, how something works more than more than
most people.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yeah, I mean, and you know, with golf clubs, I'm
really all about shot making. And you know a lot
of our industry is all about forgiveness, and and I'm
all about that as well. But you've got to really
understand how a quality golf shot struck, in my opinion,
to be able to develop a golf club that helps
you do that, and it gets the most.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
Out of that.

Speaker 4 (08:06):
And the real Blockhart company was anchored by wedges, developed
some wonderful blade irons for them, and then that led
me to, you know, to get more and more focused
on wedges, and because I saw that as a category
that's being left behind. It wasn't then in the nineties,

(08:26):
and it still is today. It's a category that has
just not enjoyed the technological revolution that we've seen in
drivers and putters and hybrids and irons and the golf ball.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
And you know, I've.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Got nineteen fifties and sixties wedges in my collection that
I could clean up the graphics and jazz themed up
and put them on the rack today. And I think
that's just that's what drives me in the wedge category.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, that's an interesting thing, that's an interesting way to
look at it.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
You know, every it's almost like that's.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
The and I know I'm not supposed to say this,
but the red Hair's step child of the golf industry.
It's like, you know what, let's figure out you know,
the balance potter of the heel toe balance and go
back and talk to Carson Solheim and figure out this
this potter. And then then obviously, you know, you get
extremely expensive and you get really innovative and really technologically

(09:19):
driven with a potter in your hand.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Then we go to drivers, and then.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
We invent effectively invent a hybrid in the last thirty years,
and this and that. But everybody just kind of walks
right past the bunker. They walk right past that shot
from thirty yards.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
Oh yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Then they walk right past that shot of thirty yards
and say, you know that, Nobody ever says I wish
there was a piece of equipment that would actually make
this easier.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Well, you know, I've written hundreds of articles about wedge
play and as monitor the wedge guy, and I've talked
to hundreds of golfers and specifically about that, and you know,
I really believe with are the hardest clothes in the
bag to master for a couple of reasons. And you know,
primarily when you take fifty to fifty two, fifty eight

(10:07):
degrees lost on the golf club, everything is a glancing glove.
And you know, whereas a seven ron is a pretty
direct flow in the back of the ball, a driver
is a very direct load of the back of the
ball sitting up on a tee. And wedges are more
requiring good technique than any other club in the back.
I'm convinced of that. But we're also we're ampered by

(10:29):
the fact that that the wedges were that are put
in our hands, that are on the rack at the
retail store today to grind your golf shop today, they
are amazingly similar identical to just find your ouself twenty
five years ago and forty five years ago, and we
haven't seen the evolution. I think the main reason for
that is, you know, the big rams have a lot

(10:50):
of brilliant people. I mean the driver technologies and Hunderd technologies,
all this stuff. They're brilliant people, but when it comes
to wedges, they are lot and jown on their tours
and tour professionals altom we can get on the tour
and your pvia professionally. You know this, the best short
game of the best amateur golf in America is not

(11:11):
as good as the worst short game on the card
Berry Tour, right, because those guys spend in the ordon
amounts of time, you know, building this, this library of
golf shops, and they know how to hit a pitch
shot thirty five feet seven different ways because they've built
this through hours and hours of practice with wedges that
have a changed, so they're learning is cumulative. And I mean,

(11:34):
this is some of my big silkbox about wedges. If
you'll bear with me. If I hand Sustan Thomas, for example,
a driver and he gets out on the range and
I've got, you know, two degrees higher launch and for
three hundred least part mems, and it's carried nine yards
further and I can work it left, I can work
it right. It's going in the bag tomorrow. But if
I walk them over to the wedges and say, let

(11:55):
me tell you what we're doing here, and he throws
the ball down and this is full of thirty five
foot bitch shot and it travels thirty eight feet lower
with more spin, He's got to hand it back.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
No, I can't use this.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
It didn't know what I know how to do, and
I don't have the ability to relearn my touch to
accommodate a new wage. So just give me a wedge
does that's fresh crews and does just what the old
one did. And people don't understand that about tour players
and the rest of us. When we buy a new
golf club, whether it's a driver or a set of

(12:27):
irons or a cutter, we expect immediate improvement. We expect
to be better with a driver, of putter or a
hybrid than we were before we put that in our bag.
And that expectation with wedges typically isn't met. I can't
tell you the number of golfers I talked to you
that have said I am just a bad wedge player. Well,
why do you say that. I played to Halla, I

(12:47):
played to Loki, that played to Leave and played the Calloway.
I just seem well, you've played the same goflub with
three different Sesso graphics on it, because the function and
the design of gop club really hasn't changed. I just
made a little video where I was showing people this
nineteen fifties Wilson Ledge and the nineteen nineties Timeless Wedge

(13:07):
and a twenty twenty four time of Swige and it's
the same tough club. I mean, I don't mean to be,
you know, ragging on the big brands, but you know
they don't change the goth folk because their tour staff
will not let him do it. Their tour staff doesn't
want them to do it. And you know, I'm sorry
ivon the soaparch, but Costey Jeffler is a perfect example.
Scotty Jeffler is the hottest player in Gothlin the last

(13:28):
two years. I mean, unmatch skilled, right, he's a tailor
made staff guy. Okay, I call enough the brand name's
I respect for all of them. You got to know
that Taylor Maid is doing everything they can to put
Taylor Made Wedges in this back. They got every other club. Right,
he's playing he's playing Timeless Gookey Wedges, right, But he's
not playing SM tens, their newest He's not playing SM nines,

(13:51):
which were three years old. And he's playing s M
eight mkies because even the subtle changes from SM SM
nine S and Ken were too much for him to
adjust to. So Tylas gives him brand new SM eight
wedges every two three months when he changes out, and
Taylor made the guys thrower going, you know, why can't
we make wedges like these? And it's like, you know,

(14:13):
because that guy can feel things in a wedge, it
can barely measure right, But you know, Dame Wills that
Taylor made is trying to figure out how to get
Taylor made wedges.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
In his back.

Speaker 5 (14:22):
He's their guys, their flagship guy, right, but.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
Yet they can't replicate the exact performance that he feels
out of that SMA titles. And that's how that is
the perfect illustration of just how picky these guys are
about their wedges, and the rest of us center going,
I'm playing Cavity back irons, I'm playing a four hundred
and sixty sec driver with the R place graph, White Chef,

(14:47):
Why am I trying to play Scottie Spbers wedges.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
I'm not even more close to his kids, right right?

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, that's that's that there, It is right there. That
that's that that tour player for you know, as you said,
for Vokey at this point, or for Tailor Made, or
for Callaway or whoever is driving that that R and
D department, and he's telling them I don't need R
and D.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
I just need that wedge. Just give me that thing,
because I can make me some.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
New ones just like my old ones. Because I don't
want to have to relearn.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Anything, you know, right, because I don't know.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
I learned it when I was seventeen, nineteen, twenty one,
twenty four.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
I'm not relearning at thirty two.

Speaker 5 (15:27):
Because they're continually learning.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
I mean every week you've been out on the tour.
He watch these guys every week. For every mall they
hit on the range with a full tween, they're hitting
twenty over in the short game area right frrection every
kind of possible shot that that course might throw at
them this week, and getting the feel of how the
ball is releasing on the greens and how it's working
into the grain and down grain. And the rest of

(15:49):
us are just trying to figure out how do I
hit a first yard pitch shop and go up in
the air, go at predictable distance and stop. But he's
from pally close to where at lands. That's all I want,
and that's how I'm going to shoot to a six
up for an eight or twelve by not the only
way shots around greens and what I've proven over and
over and over again, and every one of your listeners
knows this shot ball sitting in the roof, you catch

(16:11):
it high in the face, it doesn't go anywhere. It's
not your fault. If any tour design wedge, if you
catch the ball above the third or fourth group, you're
losing smash pack or the ball cannot go as far
as just that simple it's the wedge. It's fall And
we recreational golfers. And I don't know your golf course
when I'm betting your fairways aren't cut as tight as

(16:32):
tour fairways, right, you know your golfers are playing them
all up a little more, they might even be rolling it.
And on what kind of course you have, they're hitting
more shots down of the rough. Recreational golfers are hitting.
You know, the tour players wage you got to wear
spot the size of a penny right there on the
third fourth group, and go look in your bedding room
and you'll see a where spot the size of a

(16:54):
silver dollar centered about three or four groups higher than that.
Because that's the way recreational golfers hit wedge. And I
maybe getting in myself, but what Edison wedges, and my
wage work has been about for thirty years is I'm
not in a position to teach you to hit wedges
like a core player. So what but I am in
a position design a wedge around where you do hit
them all and that is higher and the base. I'm

(17:16):
going to design wedges around where you do hit it
rather than trying to tell you you don't learn how
to hit it on the third group.

Speaker 5 (17:24):
That's you. You're not going to learn that the time, right.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
So okay, So we're gonna go to a commercial break and.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
I'm gonna I'm gonna throw a couple of comparisons at
you when we get back, because I think I think
we're gonna This is a really, really really interesting avenue
we're on right now. This is the rich Comwell Golf Show.
Welcome back to the rich Comwell Golf Show. We are
joined this week by Terry Keller, who is you know,
has a lot of nicknames, you know, wedg Master, mister wedge. Uh.

(17:56):
He is phenomenally equal whip with knowledge about wedges in
this game.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
But it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
We ended the last segmentary with you talking about how
you know how people hit wedges like the guys that
you play with on Saturday, and how it's completely different
than how tour players hit wedges. And the most interesting
thing about that is when I first in this is god,
this is alone.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
This is thirty years ago.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Now, you know, when we first got into club fitting,
we and I still say this because we did some yesterday.
We we tell people all the time we can, we're
going to build a golf club for you, not your
golf swing to my golf club. And you're effectively doing

(18:43):
the same thing with wedges, except nobody quite understands that
what they're being offered is not being built for them.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
Well, and that's the thing that gives me and the
industry research will show you if you don't look at
the top in grains and regulation guys on the PJ toy,
they're all playing in some form of pretty traditional muscle
back late because they want to be able to work
the golf ball multiple ways. Not two percent of recreational
golfers trying to play that golf club, you know, they're

(19:14):
often for some cavityback game or for them the club
that gives them let's them get away with things. And
yet that golfer's got a four hundred and sixty sec
driver because it lets him get away with missage. He's
got hybrids because they're easier to hit the forearms. He's
got a big old high mlife hunter now face violence,
fling the balance, whatever to help him hold more putts.

(19:34):
And yet he's kind of hit the same wedges that
the tour player is hitting. And that is the most
finnyy unforgiving golf club in the bag. But the tour
player is not looking for forgiveness. He's looking for predictability
in his wedges. He knows how to hit that shot
thirty five et six different ways, six different trajectories and
spin rates. And if you give him a wedge that

(19:56):
doesn't do what he knew how to do, he's going
to hand it back to you. The rest of us go.
I love to be surprised by my wedges. I'd love
to feel it high in the face, but hey, it
carried the bunker. I got a pretty cut anyway. You know.
I'm in the rougher around the greens, and I feel
it a little out toward the toe, but it's still
made the cutting surface. I still got a chance to
save power.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Boney.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
We want surprises out of our wedges. The tour player,
that's the last thing he wants. And so I'm just
very passionate about let's design the wedge or whatever way
you already hit it, rather than design it for a
tour player.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
And you can go try to figure that out.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
Yeah, And a big part of that is the soul designer.
And everybody talks about fitting mouse, and I'm a heretic
when it comes to fitting mouse because that's all anybody
talks about. And the tour player, I can't fit his
mouth because he has the same way every time. But
I can't fit your moounce because and I always say,
it's easy for me to fit your bounce. What does

(20:51):
your next wedge line look like? But who knows that?

Speaker 3 (20:54):
Hey, I can think it.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
I know my next wedgshot, for example, will be my
approach on number one to our ipernut. And depending on
a twenty foot circle i hit it in, I'm going
to be in salt stand or firms. And if I
hit it in the bunker, it could be either or
I could be in the stripper up between the bumper
and the fairway, or I could be in the fairway
with a knife fly, or I could be in the

(21:17):
part of the fairway where everbody drives their carts with
a type line that's compressed turf.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
So what what.

Speaker 4 (21:23):
Bounces do I need in my gap wedge when I
could have any of those four shots come on my
ipnade on my first wage swing.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Of the day.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
You can't fit the bounce to something that you don't
know what it's going to be. And then they don't
even talk about fitting shaft, and you were talking about
fitting a minute ago. The web shaft is at least
as important as every other shaft in the back because
it's handling the heaviest club is. It's where all the
field is required.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
And if I hear we've got six different.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
Bounces but everybody play the same shaft, don't make any
sense at all.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
No, that's okay, That's that's what I said, because it's
funny you say that because I spend time on the
practice facility with Chris Smith, who won at Westchester, played
at Ohio State, you know, and I've known Chris for
a long time, and and he at the time he
played Hogan, he played Hogan golf clubs, and he had

(22:18):
Hogan wedges because it was Callaway and all that stuff,
and and and the guy from Cleveland walked up to
him and said, Hey, can I borrow that wedge because
I'm gonna build you a wedge that you know, we
have this new face out and all this stuff. And
they said, I'll bring it back to you and I'll
make you three of them. Because he was playing fifty
to fifty four sixty I think I can't remember, and

(22:39):
he was like, yeah, you go ahead, and they guy
brought him back.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
He's like, you're gonna love these. Look at these thiss
He goes, yeah, they look really nice. And the guy
walked away.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
He said, I will never play those golf clubs because
they're not the wedge that I know what to do with.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, they just I don't he goes.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
I'm not saying I can't do it, he goes, but
I'm not going to invest and that's the word he used.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
I'm not going to invest energy.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
To try to figure that one out because I know
I've already had that one figured out.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Well, that's exactly right.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
And you know, one of the things I think is
really and one of my big observations about way to play.
We've got a few young flatbellois at our club and
they got our young assistant pro and a couple of
the guys he plays with a lot, and they alwa
swing everything so they hard, you know, Like I told names,
I said, it doesn't matter how far you hit a
gap wage. It matters can you hit it within three

(23:34):
yards of that distance time after time after time after time.
Because if I can hit a gaff wage one oh
five and you hit yours one twenty five to one
for I'm gonna kick your butt because I know my
gap weights is going one o two to one oh
seven of them, and that's gonna give me a lot
of good looks at thirty and your gap waves you're
not roser how far it's.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Going to go.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
So you're gonna be fron on that one hundred and
twenty five yard shot. You're gonna be frockling for some
You're gonna be over the back of the greens on time,
and occasionally you're going to hit it right at the flag.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
But I said, nobody's going to give you an award
because if you did.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
It with a gap bridge and I did it with
a nunner, nobody's going to give you an award. And
still who hit it closer and who made the butt,
no matter what cleve you did it with. And you know,
and and but the harder you swing a wedge, the
higher of all goes, the less spin it has, and
the more inconsistent of the distance.

Speaker 5 (24:24):
And I always tell people list.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
That I can prove to you if you'll hit your
wedges at what feels like eighty, they will go further,
they will be more consistent, and they will spend more.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Right right, and nobody will.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
And unfortunately, as you said, like, I also coach a
golf team Division two NCAA golf team, and those kids
hit everything so hard, like everything's hard, and it's and
then then like they stand there like, okay, I got
a sixty, I've got I got fifty eight, fifty eight
yards or whatever math it might be, and they're like,

(24:57):
I'm I'm eighty eight yards. I'm swinging my sixty really hard.
I'm like, go ahead, balls gonna go up in the air.
All your energy is dedicated towards that cloud. And the
last I checked, we're trying to play to that flag stick.
So you figure out what's best to get to the
flagstick and not the cloud.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, And it's and and and they and.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
They look at you like you're I don't know, speaking Swahili,
because to them, that's they were taught to do hit
everything as hard as you can.

Speaker 4 (25:25):
You know, it's funny because I'm even reading some of
the tour players that that their their guy. That's the
dumb players is learn to hit it as hard as
you can.

Speaker 5 (25:34):
Right.

Speaker 4 (25:35):
Well, you know, I grew up and day I learned
with for Someone drivers and very small little Hogan blade irons,
and I was taught you order how to.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Hit the ball solid.

Speaker 4 (25:45):
Distance will come as you grow, right, but you gotta
learn how to hit it solid. And I mean I
look at guys at our club and I was talking,
so I said, I said, you can outdrive me.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
I mean not suddenly doing a.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Half years all that stores still hit it out there
to forty. I said, you're gonna have ride me fifty
or sixty yards and I'm going to beat your brains
in today because you don't know how to score. You
don't want how to play golf. You just know how
to swing really hard at the golf ball. And I
see the high school kids and appalled at some of
the scores because when I was in high school in

(26:17):
the sixties, we shot you know, four man scores. We
shot two ninety fours and three hundreds and fives and
back then, and these kids they can't shoot three fifties
and three sixties, you know, because they don't know how to.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
Play the game.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
And I don't want to pick on youth oball, because
there's some very fine young golfers out there, but I
believe this whole thing about you know, hit it as
hard as you can and figure it out later. No,
not the way to play golf, them out of them.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
And I realized, and I realized that we're not you
know we we we're talking about golf clubs itself. But
I blame part of that, in my opinion, I blame
that on the golf ball because when you when you
were now you're you're older than me, but I remember
the golf ball would spin so if you tried to
hit it, if you it was out of control to you,

(27:04):
you know, if you're trying to if you look, if
you swung it hard enough or fast enough that you
were out of control, that golf ball would go seemingly
where it wanted to go.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
Oh yeah, you can hit forty yard slices and forty yard.

Speaker 5 (27:16):
Hooks right, And that's.

Speaker 4 (27:18):
Pretty hard to do anymore between the driver and the
company puffball. That said, I live in condos here on
the eighth off the about halfway down to eighteen old
and I don't know how people can do it, but
they can actually hit it over the first row of
condos into our swimming pool.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, I don't know how you do that, especially with
that golf ball, with that golf ball, and.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
And it's it's it's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
So so talk to me a little bit about like
how you started to develop, Like did you what did
I to invent something?

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Like, I mean, what did you? How did you do that?

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Well? I started out with putters, and I spent a
lot of time in the back end of Ray Cook
and and.

Speaker 4 (27:56):
Odie Chrislin and and just shot me a put brother
and my dad were moenomenal putters, and.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
I was the ball striker kid.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
I was a kid that was gonna wear out the
ninth fairway because we had our shagmag out onto the
ninth fairway to pick up up.

Speaker 5 (28:08):
And I just was down be dam and with five VN.

Speaker 4 (28:11):
Hogan's side lessons, I was going to beat the golf
course tea green.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
But in a order.

Speaker 4 (28:14):
Later, I said, if I can't pull it in the whole,
I'm not really achieving my objectives. And so I started
studying everything I could about putters and putting and and
really actually wrote a manuscript which I've ever published called
A Natural Approach to Better Putting. It's kind of a
different approach. But I became fascinated by the way golf
clubs work, and so I was doing experimenting around and

(28:37):
developing different putters, and then looked over one hundred of
them for Merit and ben Ogan and and read Lockard.
I developed a few. But I was on the troup
in nineteen nineties to Scotland with my brother and we
were we were the first afternoon we went over to
the Saint Andrews New Course, walked across and played a
late eating around the golf and then the tight curb

(28:58):
over there. I I don't remember if it was a
keg lead or whatever wedge in my bag. Man, a
tight turf was giving me the blues, and you know,
and the bombers were fine. Of a man hit the
sand wedges off that tight turf. I was skipping it
into the ball and we were over and offul on
these golf stoff the next morning and he had.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
A grind and wheel there.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
I was talking to him.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
I was kind of new in the golf industry, and
this white.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Bulb went off in my head.

Speaker 4 (29:22):
I went back to my hotel and got my wedge,
and he told me I could use the grinding wheel.
And I ground a bunch off of a bunch of
bounce off the golf level, and now it looked like
a shovel. So I ground a leading edge and ground
about a quarter of inch thort of an inch back
into the soul. He grounded all the way up to
the first row. I took a bunch of weight off,
so then I packed a bunch of leads tape on

(29:43):
it to bring a pack of sleean weight. And it
was the crude looking thing, very crude, but man, that
thing work wonders. I could nip sand wedges off the
top of turf and still working good out with bunkers.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
And that was the first.

Speaker 4 (29:54):
Iteration of my tailor soul. I came back and bought
a bunch of wedges and ground and bought myself a
grinder and de foster and and just exprinting around with
this thing until I felt like I had been working,
showed up some club throws around San Antonio and didn't
really know any tour guys at the time, and and
so I followed the patent and then received the patent.

(30:15):
I'm putting two mountain angles in the bottom of the
golf club in the early nineties.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
And that is what the Kailor soul is today. It's
been the.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
Dull back soul. It's been the best sold. It's been
copied by a lot of people. I had an article
a couple of years ago that showed Tiger Wood's personal
wedges and they would ground very much for my soul,
and I would go a blog post amount of said,
well this is real flattery. And I had somebody tell
me some way you've copied, you know, tigers grind Us
And Tiger was thirteen when I followed my pat and

(30:44):
I don't think something you.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Know I found when he was starting right.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
And you know, my thing is is that you know,
you and me and our listeners, we don't get a
tour truck following us around, and we can change wedges
if the turf conditions change. We make an investment with
set a wedges they got last us to it three
four years everywhere we played season in, season out, And
so to me, a weg soul has to.

Speaker 5 (31:07):
Be burstol for whenever.

Speaker 4 (31:08):
Lie was talking while and go about you know, my
next wedgshot.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
I don't know what it's going.

Speaker 4 (31:12):
To look like, but but the soul on my wegs
better be able to handle it. And that's true for
all your listeners.

Speaker 5 (31:18):
You better have a soul that can handle it.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
And you know, the big companies say we got to
grind for every line, and I said, well, I got
one for any Lie. You have one for every line,
but it takes all seventy two of your wedge options
for me to be equipped with that. I got it sold.
It'll work pretty dang good everywhere. And that's all we
can ask of our souls line in our weds. So
you know, I just created that thing. And I can't

(31:44):
tell you how blessed I've been to have people in
the golf industry share their knowledge of being Joe Powell.
I learned so much from Joe and Tony Christlin and
Prince Opras in the back of the Raycook and the
guys at Cogan. I mean, I've been a sponge for
knowledge and I've been blessed that people willing to share
that and to sit down and talk cutters with Ben

(32:04):
Crenshaw or talk wedges with Tom krist I mean, uh
irons with Paul Asinger. Wow, just I mean this, that's
how you learn. And that's why I'm eager to share
what I know with golfers because I've learned I don't
need to die with this knowledge.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
It's not a secret to.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Me right right because because they were nice enough to
share with you. So we're all just trying to help
each other. And it's really that's really what we're trying
to do, you know, because because I'm not going to
be offended if you know, if if somebody says to me,
you know that that thing you taught me about doing that,
playing it that way, I'll never forget that. Well, then
tell everybody else because it's it's I'm not I'm not gonna,

(32:43):
like you said, I'm not gonna get buried with it.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Do you keep it?

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Now? My favorite, my favorite thing to you do and nowadays,
is to take a beginning golfer or an offer and say,
let me show you how to get a thirty yard
pitch shot, like go something back you can hit every
club in the back because that's EACHESSU how the club
has to go through impact and make contact with the

(33:06):
ball and interact with the fur. And if you can
hit a thirty yard pitch shot in the year that
stops reasonly close, you can play anybody's golf course because
hitting that fifteen yarder and the forty five yarder is
just a speed bay, right And to me, that's where
golfers have such four technique on that basic pitch shot.
And you know, to me, it's a pretty simple shot.

(33:28):
The ball's only going thirty yard. This is pretty simple
more and it's not a strength thing. You know, I've
showed the twelve year old kid, and I've showed the
eighty five year old guy you can hit.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
This shot, so right, yeah, exactly, this is this isn't
the world's Strongest Man competition right here. We're just we're
just going to pitch it right in there and you
watch what happens.

Speaker 5 (33:47):
All right.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
So, Terry, what we're gonna do.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Now is IM going to take another commercial break, and when
we come back, we are going to talk about you
mentioned a couple of people, and I want you to
talk about your company your your I want to talk
about Edison now. I want to talk about some of
the people that you you've been fortunate enough to be around,
and I want to kind of talk about what's next
for you, for your for your.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Corner of the golf world. And this is the rich
Comwoll Golf Show.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Welcome back to the rich Comwell Golf Show. We're joined
this week by Terry Kayler, who is probably has more
knowledge about wedges than I'd be going to tell about
anybody in the country. And so, uh, Terry, tell me,
tell me a little bit about about the company you're

(34:35):
working with right now.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
So I created Edison Golf Company. We created this company
about six years ago, and uh after I had welcome
the man Hogan Company back into golf, and I thought
I was going to retire that project and the warmeout,
headed it over to the rest of the management team
and kind of went on my way to see.

Speaker 5 (34:55):
If I could creish more.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
But I've realized I wasn't.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
Through with Wedge is rich and I felt like I'm
not done yet. I don't know how to read die
or my mind is always going run around about how
to do better things. And and so I created Edison.
We created the company specifically to give me a platform
to pull out all the stops and do things I've
never done in wedges. And just to say, you know,

(35:20):
I'm not concerned about door players. I'm not concerned about
you know, anything except how do I make a wedge
work better for more people? And it's a small company
and we're self funded, but we're we're doing great work.
We have a tremendously loyal following with with what.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
We're doing, and we're.

Speaker 4 (35:39):
Making wedges that are built for the five to twenty uniicap,
but they're not built for door players. And the door
players have plenty of guys. And we got Bob Bothy
the guys that time with the guys at Callaway, the
interval being I mean, the door players have every money
in the world working for them.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
They don't need me.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
But but you know that your offers the guys you
make your living off of the guy I'm I'm not
living with.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
They need us.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
They need us to provide better instruction, better equipment.

Speaker 5 (36:04):
And that's kind of just.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Put the blinder phone on that. But will be the
most innovative, forward looking, effective wig company that golf has
ever seen. Then it's not about door pros.

Speaker 5 (36:15):
It's about you.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
They got listen to what we're talking about today. It's
about you. It's not about door player.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
That is that is really really, really neat. So so
how do you How are you getting them in their hands?
How are you getting them in their hands?

Speaker 4 (36:29):
You know where we're a small company. We advertise on
social media. We a lot of word of mouth. You know,
we find cost efficient ways to reach golfers with a
message that you know, hey, we're doing something different. It's
what we call the Edison difference.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
It's real.

Speaker 4 (36:45):
They look different than any other wedges, and they work
different than any other wedges. It's kind of like the
old insanity thing. If you keep buying wedges that looks
the same, you're going to get the same results.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
You head, Why do it?

Speaker 4 (36:56):
You know? It's like, I don't care how much you practice.
You are not going to be competitive with a person
them a driver. It's not going to happen, right, I
don't care how much you practice, you are not going
to be competitive with the steel shaft in your driver
that weighs one hundred and thirty grams. Come there.

Speaker 5 (37:09):
How much you practice, it's not.

Speaker 4 (37:10):
Going to happen, and you know you don't see bulls,
high fetters and eighty oo two's on the greens. I mean,
you know it's if you want to be better, you
take advantage of technology, and you haven't been given that opportunity.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
And so we don't want to want to build.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Wedges for serious recreational golfers. We're premium product. It's a
high quality forging. We use all KBS, chefs and lampin grips.
Everything's custom made. We don't build any stock wedges. Every
order is built for the golfer that's mine them, and
we back everything with a one hundred percent risky trial.
I mean, you will build your ledge to your specs,

(37:45):
you're loft, your shaft, you're linked on. Let you put
it in your bag for a month, because the best
way to see if always works is to get it
out on the golf course. You can't do it on
the range. Your archer can't do it indoors. You got
to get out on the golf course. You got to
hit that. Oh I'm just going to sure shouted myself
on number three. There, you know that's that third shot
approach shot on number five, that's sixty yard pitch shot

(38:06):
gives me to lose, you know, whatever it is. You
need to see how these wedges react in your world,
with your game, on your course or courses that you play.
So we say, hey, we'll build it. You put it
in the back of thirty days. But it done works
in the.

Speaker 5 (38:19):
Back, you know.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
I mean, I don't want I don't want you to
have a wedge in your bag. You don't line, but
ninety eight percent of our golfers not only keep the
first one, they come back for more. Because what we're
doing is different. It works. Wow. That's that's the best.
That's the best compliment I can ever get. Is when
somebody says you changed my game. I mean that to
me is what my.

Speaker 5 (38:37):
World is all about.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yeah, that is that that That actually is pretty cool.
That is pretty cool because I've I've had that a
couple of times up you know, and and and and
oddly enough it was it was for an older person.
I mean, one of the most notable ones is older
guy because he didn't think you play anymore. I'm like, look, yeah,
you can't.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
We can do this. We can figure this out.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
I mean, that's we're I'm in the same business as you.
Really as a PJA professional.

Speaker 5 (39:03):
That I'm in Europe never worried.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
About getting rich and they never have and never will.
But man, when I get those emails from people and
those reviews in that you change my game and I'm
you know that that's still good words on after and
and you know we've built we built companies to be successful,
but so you can.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Keep doing what you do. Uh And but.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
That's what we're all about in Edison is we're putting
wedges in your hands that really are going to help
you get better.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
And if they don't, I want them back. I don't
want them.

Speaker 4 (39:32):
In what you're saying, Yeah, I bought them and I
didn't like them.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
You're don't like them, send them back. I bought them back.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
That is, I'll tell you what.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
And you know what, of all the people I've met
in this business, you're the guy that would say that
and actually live up to it. So that's that's there's
something to be said for that. So all right, So
we're going to circle back to Edison in a minute.
But I do obviously because you know you said a
couple of years you know, you played high school golf
in the sixties and this that and the other thing.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
So tell me, tell me tell some of the some of.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
The really cool people you've been around in your in
your golf career.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
I mean, you know, there's so many.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
I did have the opportunity to meet Ben Hogan one time.

Speaker 5 (40:09):
It was a great experience.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
It was a thing I've ever heard about mister Hogan
because I was he was my singular childhood sports he rower,
he wrote and all it all came to fruition in
one twenty minute meeting. Where that one going to great detail,
but it was the exact everything you've learned about mister Hogan,
you know, back in the in the eighties. And I
got Paul As and year Robert Wrenn became a very

(40:33):
good friend still to this day. Guys that that I
met through Joe Powell on the OPGA tour, Mushrom Censor,
Devlin and Nathaniel and and some of those just Rosie
John and said.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
People that they're just real people.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
They happened to play golf for a living and they
don't do what I do and I don't do.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
What they do.

Speaker 4 (40:52):
One of my my most wonderful experiences was working with
with Ben Crenshaw back in the Red Lockhart day. And
then as just a Prince's guy, loves everything about the
game of golf, just moust down to earth, you know,
nons to Harper Sauna and and has feel in touch
with a putter that I mean, it's mind blowing what

(41:13):
he can feel and all these guys, but then in
particular and he just he's just such a wonderful human
being and a great experience with Tom kink and he
was getting a lesson with Harvey Pinnock and I got
to sit in on that that interchange, and you know,
the one of the most famous teachers in all the
golf and in the leading money winner in the history

(41:33):
of the game. Totally different personality than Ben Krinshawman absolutely,
you know upright, you know, fine fine man, and and
you know, just a real grinder. And and then that
I worked with Justin Leonard just a little bit at Hogan.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
In the nineties.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
And but you know, really I'm the tour guys. I
have the most respectful what they do.

Speaker 5 (41:56):
But that's not.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Where I'm focused.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
I mean, I'm much rather the time with you know,
you're mentioned coaching the college team. I must rather spend
time having a helping a golfer to an aha moment,
whether that golf was sixteen Andy Kepper or a beginner,
you know, college player that has that light bulb go
off to me, those are the real rewarding things. And
I've had so many of those interactions that they're you know,

(42:19):
by the hundreds of maybe thousands. Who knows, because I'm
very quick to offer gems if anybody wants it. I mean,
I've got a lot of knowledge of all my you know,
jillions of hours of studying golf and the gospeling and
shop making and the quotment. You know, there's not anybody
out there I probably can't offer some tidbit too. I
have this young collegiate player. We're playing golf and she's

(42:43):
doing a little intern work for the company. And she
played D two golf and she was hitting these kind
of naypy all of hooks all day and finally I said,
you'll do your favorite. Get ready to hit this shot
and I and I got and she was all out
an address and I've set the grip on my driver.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Down in front of her.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
I told about an engine ancient through tote of this,
and then I put my tipple on driver check in
front of her left tho, I said, Luther, til here.
I moved her engine app plus and the bus. You
ripped it about two forty five right down in the
middle of the slide draw best round on ever seen
or hit.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
I said, it's simple. You were just too far from all.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
I mean, let's fix what's easy, you know. And I'm
a big believer. If you're gonna start play in this game,
sit around watching TV with a golf club and order
how to hold it properly. There's one way to hold
a golf club. You can use overlapp or analogs. You
can use the full finger grip. You can be a
little strong or a little weak, but there is one
way to hold the golf of it lets the body

(43:36):
do what it can do. And then there is one
way to posture and stand and address the golf ball.
And if you have the grip right and the posture
instead of right, it kind of makes your body go
where it's supposed to go.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yeah, you send some big messages, you do. You send
some big messages yourself. It's like, hey, look I can't
do that.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
But I can't.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
I can't have a bad habit. Oh you can, but
you're not promoting a bad habit because you're actually the
structure of the foundation of your house is really, really, really.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Sturdy, so the wind can blow as much as it
wants to.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
Yeah, very few accomplished players with.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
A bad grip, no kidding, no kidding.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
You know, And if you go to the PGA tour,
of the LPGA tour, granted, you know you have a
difference in heighten Eli Korda's six feet to doll and
some of the Asian players, you know, we're high four.
But if you look at their posture instead of throwing,
then I mean the tall players crouching a little more,
looking their knees a little more, and the short player
is able to stand a little more wreck Mike Pinhogan did.

(44:32):
But essentially they look exactly the same. And this means
may have some adio secrecies, but look at the grips,
all all the club essentially the same, and look at
the posture and address position, and they're all essentially the same.
Because there is a lot of individually individuality about how
to hold a goblet and how to how to stand

(44:54):
if you want to have a good repeating gossling.

Speaker 5 (44:56):
And I believe that, like you said.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
It's about the foundation. And and it doesn't matter how
crew it was just the foundation Bulmart.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
It's interesting because I you know, it's you know, I'm
fortunate enough to teach a lot of people, and I
do have some high school kids, I mean some and
some college kids. And it's it's really really really interesting
that it's not exciting.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
But I'll tell you what.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
You make a change in somebody set up to a
proper setup, like you straighten their spine angle, you get
their weight distribution correct, and all of a sudden, they're like.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
They say to you, it's easier. You know, it's easy. Yeah,
it's easier. It's because it is easier.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
And and it's like you, it's like you said, okay,
so your wedges, I mean you like you if if
if I if I go, if I'm a twelve handicap
and I go play golf, I miss, Well, let's be honest,
I'm gonna miss fourteen greens and and I'm gonna I'm
gonna hit a high on the face twice and make bogie.
So all of a sudden, I put a golf club

(45:57):
in your hand that has a has a thicker, thicker
higher point for lack of a better technical term, and
all of a sudden like, hey, guess when I hit
it to fifteen feet and I made two of them.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Yeah, guess what you're now?

Speaker 1 (46:10):
You're now you're getting some Now we should eighty two
and stead eighty four.

Speaker 5 (46:15):
Well, you know what we did.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
And just to illustrate the point I made long ago
about wedges haven't changed. I did my first round of
robotic testing on wedges in two thousand and eight or nine,
and we put the top name round wedges on on
an urn iron swing robot and we plotted a one
inch circle around the base, so we hit the low
impact point was about third group, and then it was

(46:38):
a one in a quarter inch circle, you know, a
one in a quarter inch high from that, and five
ahs of an inch, you know, either side toe and
heel of this one in circle. And we saw it
in two thousand and eight or nine, the top three
wedges in the market would throw about at a fifty
two foot Disburson pattern, you know, as you moved the

(46:58):
impact around the base. In twenty twenty two, we did
my last round of robotic testing and the top three
redges we're still throwing a fifty to fifty two foot pattern.
So in almost fifteen years, the top three bar Antral
wedges had not improved their long short discersion at.

Speaker 5 (47:16):
All because at the point they're trying to be.

Speaker 4 (47:19):
Wow and my Score Wedges and in the twenty ten
or eleven reduced that fifty two feet to about thirty one.
And our whole story was twenty one feet closer, because
that's what we were delivering right when we passed the
Edison Wedges. That's fifty two fifty three feet. I brought
it to thirty one feet with the Scores. I brought
it to twenty two feet.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
With the Edisons.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
And that's about as fine as you can get.

Speaker 5 (47:41):
It, you know.

Speaker 4 (47:43):
So you're hitting the ball all over the face at
ninety yards and it's you know, it's filling up a
twenty or twenty two foot circle of a fifty foot circle.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
That's money.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Life is good.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
Always like to.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
Say that's money, even if you're not playing bringing.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Right, that's right. Life is good. Life is good.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
If I know I can I can smack this thing
on this face anywhere here, and I got twenty six feet,
twenty four feet, twenty one feet, right, I'm a pretty
I'm a pretty happy guy. So so talk to me
about talk to me about the future of this.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Are you just going to keep going?

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Are you going to try and grow or I mean,
obviously you're always trying to grow, But I mean, you know, what.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Do you what do you think in another year or two.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
Well, we're twoling up our current line. We're just in
left Ham, so we're gonna be able to reach out
finally to the little fan golfers. And and I've got
some new things I've been working on that really push
which technology I beat miles forward still in prototyping stages.
I'm very excited about what I'm seeing. You know, my

(48:41):
goal is to be able to and I could put
the blinders on and we have people all the time.
I love the Van hug and Teak four worth irons
I designed in the mid twenty fourteen fifteen sixteen, and I'm.

Speaker 5 (48:54):
Always enamored with irons. I'll still believe that ironed.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
But I really try to meet myself keep them the
blinders off, because there's so much we can still do
with wedges, and everybody carries two.

Speaker 5 (49:05):
Or three of them.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
And if I can change your wedges game, I'm going
to change your handicap, And I might not change your
handicap by giving you a five yards longer off the tee.
I may not change your handicap by making you hit
irons higher and the left speeding. But if I can
change your scoring range performance, whether that starts one hundred
and thirty yards or eighty yards, if I can change
that last shot on the whole, then I'm going to

(49:27):
make a difference in your handicap and how much the
game is inclorile for you. So I mean I can
put the blinders on and do wedges, so like I
don't ever see myself retiring. I'd like to fish a
little more.

Speaker 5 (49:37):
Than I do.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
But but the wheels are always turning, as you could
probably already figure out, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
That's awesome because you are correct, you are right, and
you know the enjoyable thing translates to fun too, Because
I'll be honest with you, I do a lot of
do a lot of ladies clinics and things like that,
and they're just trying to get the ball in the air,
and you get them ten yards from a green, and
you can get them if you can get it, if
you can fly it up there. You know, ten yards
from the green, you get it within fifteen feet. They
get pretty excited. Now it's like fun, let's go do that.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Now, this is fun.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
Is what happens is then scrape it up to about
fifteen yards in the green and two or three strokes
and they end up with an eight because they don't
have a short game, right, And God can't be fun.
God can't be fun like that. I mean, I've been blessed.
And you know, it was shooting in the eighties by
the time I was done, and you know, shooting in
the seventies by the time I was eleven or twelve,

(50:27):
and you know, occasionally breaking farm by the time I
was fifteen. And I mean, the better you get, the
more fun that our game is. But and the more
challenging it becomes because you've tasted real success, right you know,
you know well that I do. We all can find
the zone and you know, whether it's Scottani Stuffler or
you know, David Devall.

Speaker 5 (50:47):
Or whoever, golfers.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
Find the zone.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
But staying in that zone is not something that's likely
to happen. But you want to stay close to that zone.
And that's what makes golf so challenging and exciting. You
never get it, and John Maddis.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Said, you never get golf right right.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Well, Terry, I'll tell you what I told you this
would go by quickly, and it did. But I got
to tell you it is great catching up with you.
And when we come out of the spring next year,
I'm gonna call you back and we're gonna get you
on here again and we're gonna talk about a little
bit more what Edison's doing and see if we can't
get some get some greater enjoyment in people's wedge games.

Speaker 4 (51:24):
Well, I would love to and love to work with
you and your college team and your members there at
Wheeling and you know, let's let's revolution on some web games.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
I'm with you, Terry Killer. Thanks Tons, it's always great
talking to you. This is the Rich Comwell Golf Show.