February 3, 2024 • 43 mins
Yahoo! Sports' Jake Fisher is our special guest for two segments as we go all out on NBA Trade Season coverage with less than a week to go before the NBA Trade Deadline. Let us help you get ready for the deadline with our latest episode of The Saturday Stein Line presented by Panini Trading Cards and Collectibles.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Welcome to the Saturday Steinline with MarkStein, presented by Panini Trading Cards and
Collectibles on ninety seven to one TheFreak, the official homes Well Dallas Mavericks
Games, hosted by legendary NBA reporterand publisher of his subs Deck the Steinline.
Here's Mark Stein. Hey, everyone, welcome in to the Saturday Steinline
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presented by Panini Trading Cards and Collectibles. Our noon hour get together on the
first Saturday in February. Can onlyneed that we are closing in on the
NBA trade deadline. The trade buzzersounds locally two pm Thursday afternoon, so
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five ish days left, just fivedays and change away for the Mavericks to
make a move of some sort.They're obviously hoping that it is a move
of consequence for what would be theeighth successive trade deadline, ninth in the
last ten years. Think everyone willrecall a year ago at this time on
(01:21):
the Sunday before the trade deadline,so the equivalent of tomorrow. We did
get a trade thunderbolt from the Mavericks. A deal was struck to send Spencer
Dinwiddie Dorian Finney Smith an unprotected firstin twenty twenty ninth, second round picks
in twenty twenty seven and twenty nine, all of that package to Brooklyn for
(01:47):
Kyrie Irving. That trade was officiallyconsummated with the Nets on February sixth,
twenty twenty three. A year later, on February sixth, twenty twenty four,
Tuesday Day, where will the Mavericksbe? Where else but Brooklyn?
For Kyrie Irving, if healthy toplay a road game against his old team
(02:14):
for the first time, the favoriteteam of Kyrie's youth. Of course,
the unavoidable reality here you have tounderline if healthy, because one year on
from that big trade, when it'stime to talk about where the Mavericks are,
and now I'm speaking more metaphorically andpsyche wise than in terms of strict
(02:38):
location, it's got to be saidthey are only in a slightly better,
slightly happier place. This team isstill hugely undersized. Incredible stat this week
from my pal is tak Franco fromd Magazine. Eighty percent of the time
the Mavericks are still No one istall on the court at six seven.
(03:02):
Only Chicago place smaller than the Mavericks. They're still struggling mightily with team health
scuffling to break away from the ranksof the mediocre, and so I think
pressure is clearly mounting on this teamonce again to make a move to strengthen
(03:23):
the roster, to give Luka Doncicmore help. In the wake of that
hugely damaging free agent free agent defection, the free agent departure of Jalen Brunson,
who is now officially an NBA AllStar for the first time. Losing
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Brunson to the Knicks in the summerof twenty twenty two, the ramifications are
still being felt, and I thinkit is fair to remind people remember when
Kyrie Irving first became available that samesummer. I'm sorry, yes, the
summer of twenty twenty two. Mymath is a little shaky. On the
(04:08):
Saturday morning, Dallas had no interestwhen Kyrie Irving first tried to make his
escape from the Nets. Then eightmonths later, in February twenty twenty three,
the Mavericks now desperate trying to replace, trying to fill the Jalen Brunson
void. They do outbid the Lakersand anyone else interested to trade for Kyrie
(04:30):
Irving. Now in February twenty twentyfour. I don't want to act like
there are no good things happening.Derek Lively the second has been nothing short
of a revelation. Apart from histremendously poor injury luck lately, most recently
taking a shot to the face fromOrlando's Wendel Carter Junior that has forced poor
(04:55):
Lively to be fitted with a faceshield to protect a broken ne But look,
Lively's Year one progress has been tremendous. He looks like exactly the sort
of rim running, defensive minded inthe Tyson Chandler Mould Center that he was
promised to be from the moment Dallasdrafted him. Derek Lively is undeniably a
(05:24):
teammate who fits fantastically well in atheoretical lineup that you would assemble around Doncic
Tim Hardaway Junior. He's a legitcontender for six Man of the Year honors,
just as Jason Kidds said he hopedHardaway would be when he came on
(05:49):
this show, when Coach Kid cameon this show about a week before the
season before training camp. Hardaway haslived up to that. He's playing exactly
the way the Mavericks envisioned However,here we are even with those developments that
(06:11):
you can point to as positives andthrow in the Cinderella stories of Dante Exem
Derek Jones Junior. But look,the Mavericks are a team. They started
eight and two and they have sincesettled into what most preseason forecast established as
their likely level. This is atwenty six and twenty two team. We
(06:33):
are one week removed from gospod Doncicnot yet twenty five. Remember un quirking
a seventy three point game in Atlanta, and he's been superhuman here for two
months straight. So there's a risinglevel of chatter locally nationally around the league.
(07:00):
What is Dallas gonna do to spruceup the roster around Doncic before the
trade deadline chimes. That's seventy threepoint picasso for number seventy seven wasn't enough
for Doncic to win Player of theWeek honors in the Western Conference, where
just a few days removed from aJanuary in which Doncic averaged better than thirty
(07:26):
seven and ten. In NBA history, people, only two players have ever
averaged thirty five and ten in backto back months. Nate tiny Archibald,
who I loved did it way backin nineteen seventy three, and Luca just
(07:47):
did it in December and January.Those are the only two players. Not
even Oscar Robertson averaged thirty five andten in back to back months. Did
Luka Doncic win Player of the Monthin January? No, he wasn't going
to. He missed a few gameshimself through injury. The Mavericks were seven
and eight in January, and itjust all adds up to the latest reminder
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that the talent around him, ifwe're being candid, and injuries have undeniably
been an issue. I'm not goingto diminish that. But this team just
doesn't win enough consistently to put himin line for these individual prizes that his
statistical production obviously merits. So thechatter is only going to get louder.
(08:35):
This pressure we're talking about to improvethe roster, it ain't going away,
especially now that the NBA trade deadlineis closing in. It's palpable. This
is a team that knows the talentaround Doncic, it still needs multiple upgrades.
This is a team that when itplays host to Milwaukee tonight, the
(08:56):
Greek Freak and Dame time and theBucks new coach Doc Rivers all in town.
They've been here since yesterday. TheBucks practice Friday. Here. Kyrie
Irving is listed as doubtful with athumb sprain. My sense is that he
is unlikely to go even if hedoes play, though this is the seventy
(09:20):
eighth regular season game since Dallas acquiredKyrie Irving. Even if Kyrie did play,
it would only be the thirty ninthtime we've seen these two together.
Exactly. That would represent exactly fiftypercent of the time. Kyrie, very
much like Lively, has had morethan one unfortunate, freakish injury this season
(09:43):
this sum in this thumb thing.You know, he took a swipe down
in the Boston game. It's thesecond time, of course, when Dwight
Powell fell on him. There wasnothing he could do to avoid that.
Those are bad luck scenarios. Butlook, the numbers are the numbers everyone.
The Mavericks were only twelve ten thisseason when Luca and Kyrie are together,
after five and eleven last season.And most of all, we just
(10:07):
don't see them together enough, noteven close. If the Mavericks want to
hush the skeptics, who question thewisdom of this pairing from the start.
If they want to be a topsix team in the West, they've got
to get the two of them onthe court together more and make upgrades.
So look, I think the MAVsknow they need to get something done here
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in coming days, and I thinkone of the loudest hints we got to
back that up. It all happenedright here Tuesday morning on ninety seven won
the Freak. Jason Kidd, theMavericks coach, joined the Downbeat. Let's
rewind now to Tuesday and play someof that interview. Jason Kidd talking about
the transcendent talent that is number seventyseven. I've said this before and I'll
(10:56):
say it. You know, foras long as I'm here, you can't
take this on them. For granted, he's better than Dirk. He's in
the in the in the atmosphere ofMJ the best to ever do it,
Lebron Kobe, and so just toappreciate what this young man is doing to
day he's at twenty four, issomething that Dallas has never seen. And
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I've said this internally. He isbetter than Dirk. He does things that
Dirk could never do and now it'syou know, the opportunity of getting the
right people around him to ultimately wina championship. You just said two times
that Luca is better than Dirk.Dirk won a title and had been to
(11:39):
two. Do you feel comfortable sayingthat on a guy that has not made
even made the finals yet? Yeah, MJ is the same way. MJ
didn't make it into his thirties.This young man is twenty four and is
breaking all the records that stand infront of him. And he's a winner,
and his ultimate goal is to towin a championship, and he will
(12:01):
get there and not just you know, win one, but he will win
multiple. I don't when it's allsaid and done. Maybe he went a
touch too far. Maybe he flooredit on the hype machine more than some
MAVs fans would have enjoyed. MaybeJason Kidd is prematurely anointing Doncic to the
(12:26):
level we expect him to get whenwe can take a look at a more
complete, fuller resume. But look, dark Noovitsky doesn't dispute anything that Jason
Kidd says. Where we see whatwe see from Luca in year six,
what he's already achieved as an individualforce. He's on this path. And
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look, if you think kids laidit on too thick, that's fine.
Everyone can grade those comments however theywant. But when you really listen to
it, the sound bites from earlierthis week, they tell you that the
Mavericks know, as much as theywould like to believe that injuries have been
the main culprit. They know amove, maybe moves with an S are
(13:18):
needed immediately. The roster around downtDoncic it's still well shy of where it
needs to be. So we aregoing to spend the rest of this show
discussing their options to bolster it beforethe two pm Thursday afternoon trade deadline.
Can the Mavericks acquire Kyle Kuzma fromWashington? If not, can they shift
(13:41):
to a secondary target like PJ.Washington from Charlotte? Does PJ. Washington
at six seven really address the sizeissues that the Mavericks have? For me,
Kuzma plays much bigger and can bemore of a difference maker and should
not be judged as a defensive playerbased on what we see in Washington.
(14:03):
Would you surrender Olivier Maxent's prosper orJaden Hardy in a trade package alongside the
Mavericks only available first round pick totrade at twenty twenty seven first. Apologies
(14:24):
for the cough, everyone still stilltrying to shake it and still unsuccessful in
doing so. Would you package oMax or Hardy with that twenty twenty seven
first to land Kuzma for the Wizards? Me? Yes, I would.
I think Kuzma is a really goodfront court fit here, hugely versatile offensive
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talent. More defensively, he offersmore on that side than what I think
he shows as a Wizard because hepossesses a tremendously team friendly contract, already
has a working relationship with Jason Kiddand Maverick's assistant coach Jared Dudley from their
time together with the Lakers. Butlook, it's still not clear whether the
(15:07):
MAVs have enough asset wise to convincethe Wizards to part with Kyle Kuzma.
I think Kuzma is a name who'sgonna be talked about a ton as this
trade deadline gets closer. He's upthere with Dejonte Murray in Atlanta and Bruce
Brown in Toronto, and I thinkZach Lavine we still keep him in the
conversation, even though Chicago has reallystruggled to create a trade market for zach
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lavine, these are the guys we'rereally keeping our eye on here in the
last few days of the deadline,because remember we've already seen six trades.
There has been a lot of action, so we're gonna have to see the
MAVs only have that one first.Is Washington really lowering its trade price has
been suggested this week by the AthleticsDavid Aldrich and Josh Robbins that maybe the
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Wizards won't hold out for two firstsfor Kyle Kuzma. The Wizards need firsts
everyone. They didn't get a firstand outright first when they traded for when
they traded Bradley build of Phoenix andthey traded Christops Porzingis to Boston, they
didn't have leverage. They didn't getan outright first an eaither deal. They
need to make up for that whenthey're trying to trade Kuzma and Tias Jones
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and Daniel Gafford, and I don'tthink they're trying to trade Denny Avdya,
And as I've reported a couple timesrecently, the MAVs have tried to go
after both Avdya and Gafford in thepast before this current run at Kyle Kuzma.
Washington needs first. They are inno rush to trade these guys.
They're gonna wait. I think they'llbe patient to try to get what they
(16:44):
want. But we're gonna keep digginginto it. Lets let's enlist the help
of one of the league's foremost expertexperts on all trade matters, one of
the best NBA reporters in the businessYahoo Sports, Jake Fisher. He's going
to join me discuss the Mavericks tradeoptions, assess their trade assets, see
(17:06):
who Dallas can make a play for. This is an absolutely trade talk bursting
edition of the Saturday Steinline presented byPanini Trading Cards and Collectibles. We continue
with two segments of trade discussion withJake Fisher next here on ninety seven Won
the Freak. This is the SaturdaySteinline Wiz Mark Stein presented by Panini Trading
(17:29):
Cards and Collectibles on your official homesto all Dallas Mavericks games. The Freak
The Saturday Steinline dribbles on, presentedas always by my pals from Panini Trading
Cards and Collectibles. Cannot wait tohang out with them at All Star Weekend
(17:52):
in Indianapolis. Panini the title sponsorof the Rookie the Rye Stars game with
rookies, second year players, gleaguers twenty eight guys, including the Mavericks
Derek Lively. He's one of thetwenty eight who made the field and so
can't wait to get out there withmy Panini pals and bring you guys.
(18:15):
Lots of coverage from Indy and thisis such a busy time with the NBA
trade deadline looming. Professional tennis,the ATP Tour, my beloved ATP Tour
back in Dallas this coming week.The Dallas Open is at SMU for one
more year before moving to a largervenue at the Star and Frisco. And
(18:37):
unfortunately, I'm not going to beable to get out there to see a
single ball struck crushing for me.Pro Tennis ATP Tour Tennis back in Dallas,
and it falls during trade deadline week. I'm still scarred from what happened
last year. I tried to sneakout there to watch one day of qualifying
on Sunday and almost mitt I mean, and then minutes of me getting on
(19:00):
the site to see my dear friendMitchell Krueger play what happens the Kyrie Irving
dealer erupts and I had to escapethe facility and get back to the home
office. And I just can't forgetthat. So I'm not even gonna risk
trying to go this time. Butall right, let's get right into the
trade talk. Let's get back toit. As I promised you, We've
(19:21):
got two segments with Jake Fisher fromYahoo Sports, and we really really dive
into the Mavericks trade prospects here.So Maddie, let's go right to it.
Let's connect to our chat with JakeFisher. This everyone is a special
treat. We're gonna do two segmentswith our guest today, who happens to
(19:44):
be one of my favorite people inthe industry. And first of all,
before we even get into the tradechatter with Jake Fisher of Yahoo Sports,
and I know that's what you guysare here for. You're here for the
trade chatter, we know, Butfirst I need to point you to this
incredible book that Jake wrote, Builtto Lose, How the NBA's tanking era
(20:07):
change the league forever. I'm tellingyou, if you want to learn about
the inner workings of this crazy league. If you want to learn about what
really happens in front offices, theway teams really talk and think about team
building, trust me, get thisbook. Read this book. You're going
(20:29):
to be so much smarter about theNBA after you do so. And one
more thing now, as I do, bring mister Fisher into the conversation.
Before I ask him about the bestplaces to find that book, we got
to start with what happened Thursday nighton TNT in the middle of the All
Star Reserves being revealed pregame before Lakersat Celtics, Charles Barkley from Nowhere starts
(20:57):
talking about a story printed this weekthat revealed how NBA veteran swingman Tony Snell
currently playing in the G League forthe main Celtics. Charles starts talking about
how Tony Snell needs to be signedthis week for the rest of the season
to qualify for a tenth year ofservice that would lead to a better pension
(21:21):
to enable Snell to provide better medicalcare for his children, both of whom
have autism. That story was writtenearlier this week by Jake Fisher, So
mister Fisher, welcome in to theSaturday steinline, tell us what it was
like to be sitting there watching insidethe NBA and all of a sudden the
(21:42):
chuckster starts talking about your story.Yeah, man, it was well.
First of all, thanks for havingme, Thanks for the very times introduction
about the book and the Tony piece. I mean, we're here to definitely
talk a ton of trade intel andwe will, we will, we will,
(22:02):
But like I mean to me,I definitely wanted to get into sportswriting,
to use basketball in particular as avehicle to talk about bigger stories that
impact people. And just to seethe overwhelming amount of support that Tony has
gotten from this. It's crazy.Like there's the own, my own personal
(22:26):
connection to it now, and likepeople are texting me and some people are
thanking me for writing it because ofwhat it means to them to have other
people who have children on the spectrum. There's someone a coworker I've never met
before, a Yahu, just sentme a message on our internal slack saying
that her sister and brother in law'schild recently just got diagnosed, and sending
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the story to them gave them likesuch a boost knowing that their child could
become an NBA player one Like,I don't know, it's been pretty overwhelming.
I'm not gonna lie. Definitely gotemotional about it all last night,
and I also just want to Itweeted it, but any opportunity I can
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to thank Tony and his wife actuallyand honestly their children didn't really have a
say in the matter, but youknow them as well for letting me allow
me to share their story. It'sbeen a true highlight honestly of my season
and probably with my whole career,and rightfully so it was awesome, totally
(23:32):
organic. Those are the kind ofmoments that are just they're great because nobody
saw it coming. I'm sure youdidn't anticipate any of this when you wrote
the story, So that really wasa moving thing to see Charles Barkley take
interest. Because I don't know howmuch Charles is actually following your tweets and
your trade news, I'm gonna guessnot a ton So that was incredibly Probably
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not the one thing I will say, Like Tony does have healthcare. The
union situation is that you get apretty good plan with benefits and a reimbursement
bank account starting at three years andthen a better program at seven years,
so he has that for himself,and this extra tenth year would just include
(24:14):
his whole family. And there's justa different tweak here of like the medical
planner, tiree benefits have a differentversion of years of service compared to what
the NBA does. So to countin the NBA guyes, you need one
day on an active roster. That'sit for the benefits plan, which is
a whole I mean, it's healthcarecterlife, so it should be a huge
requirement. Get to be on ateam for half the season, which the
(24:37):
deadline to do that unofficially but officiallyin the union bylaws and whatever the fine
print is. It's February second,So we'll see if it happens. I
don't think it will, unfortunately,but maybe this is enough to put out
information about it that he could endup in some of Newdonnis has them type
roles at the start of next season, and maybe he'll get it come twenty
(25:00):
twenty five. So I really muchlove to Tony and his family. Yeah,
and I think a lot of peoplehave their eye on it now.
A lot of people are talking aboutTony Snell's future, So you might be
right. It could still happen evenif it doesn't happen this season. All
right, let's try to move intotrade talk now, because that, of
course, is what everyone is gatheredto take in. And you are particularly
(25:26):
popular this time because of all theintel that you print, that you gather.
On Friday, you just published amassive trade deadline notebook filled with gems
that I'm sure were read by fansall over the NBA map. But you
know where I live. You knowthe team that I am closest to in
proximity, the Mavericks. They've madea deadline deal. I think it's seven
(25:48):
years in a row now. We'veboth written a lot about how active they
are. They are looking to upgradein the front court. They would love
to bring in a four. Theyare one of the two teams most routinely
linked as a Kyle Kuzma suitor alongsideSacramento. Tell me what you expect from
(26:10):
the Mavericks here in the last fourto five days before the deadline. So
if we're taking certain people at theirword that the Wizards are not going to
come down from their to first roundpick price point for Kyle Kuzmo, being
that he's on this four year dealand I could basically run it back next
year and have the same exact askingpress for him. Because his salaries around
(26:33):
it's under twenty five million a year, Like that's considered to be a pretty
value contract moving forward in the landscapeof the league's cap that is expected always
to rise. Like, I don'tknow if Dallas really will be able to
get into that bidding war and Ernestcome. You know, the end of
this being that they only really haveone first round pick. To my noology,
(26:55):
you probably have this more style thanI do this twenty twenty seven first
rounder that I don't know that thatplus whatever, you know, we've really
only heard the Mavericks willing to putout a combination of you know, Rashawn
Holmes and Tim Hardway junior. LikeI saw you wrote in your sub stock
this week. They're not putting inJosh Green, Kayden Hardy. I wonder
(27:18):
how willing they'll be they will beto put him in the thing, But
I don't think they're super dunghill aboutpart of ways with him. Oh,
Max Prosper hasn't really been any realfactor for them this season. I wonder
if including him in a deal wouldsatisfy the Wizards two pick asking price.
But I think the big difference betweenDallas and Sacramento right now, I think
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the Kings are looking at like obviousupgrades for Harrison Barnes' salary, So they
were looking at Pascal Siakam. JeremyGrant is another name to keep an eye
on that I know Dallas has checkedin on too. But Dallas, you
keep hearing, at least from myadvantage point, maybe you've heard differently.
I keep hearing other names as well, Andrew Wiggins, Dori and Finny Smith,
PJ WHT. There's definitely more.So it seems like Dallas, compared
(28:03):
to Sacramento, is more open toa wider range of potential targets versus the
Kings. I think really just hadloftier visions of potentially using the Harrison Barnes
Kevin Herder package to truly upgrade thethe top tier of their roster. Jake
Fisher from Yahoo Sports joining us hereon the Saturday Steinline presented by Panini Trading
Cards and Collectibles. Something you saidthere that caught my interest. You know,
(28:27):
we saw the story this week Earlierthis week from The Athletic, which
suggested that no the Wizards they wouldtrade Kuzma for less than two firsts.
Is your sense that there's still debateabout that. That is your anticipation that
the Wizards are still holding out fortwo first Because to me, there's the
(28:49):
MAVs. Like you said, theMAVs only have a first in twenty twenty
seven to trade. If the Maverickswant to acquire Kyle Kuzma, they're going
to have to be willing to partwith an O Max prosper or a Hardy
or maybe even both to compensate forthe fact that they only have one first
to trade. What is your senseof what the Wizards truly want for Kuzma,
(29:11):
because Kuzma's contract is going to remainvery, very tradable beyond this deadline.
I think the messaging in that Athleticarticle that came from team sources,
so my read on it and fromasking people about it, is that Washington
probably wants that sentiment out there tonot dissuade teams from getting creative, like
(29:33):
you just said, to put inother pieces that could equivate to a first
round pick so that way they actuallydo get business done. Because the Wizards
do want future draft capital. Theydo want to try to make up for
the lack of clear superstar hall thatdidn't come back for badly Beal. And
the flexibility I think will be therein the Ties Jones stuff too, where
(29:59):
yesterday I got a strong sense froma lot of people, people who have
worked with Michael Winger, the presidentof Monumental Sports, who oversee the Wizards
and everything else there, that theyexpect Washington would be willing to come down
to take whether it be three,four or five seconds for Tyas Jones.
The Hawks sent out five for SadikBay and there were three in the Rui
(30:19):
Hachimur deal and three in the ThomasBryant trade with Denver and the Leakers.
And I think the Bucks had toget off some salary in the process as
well, but they gave up fivesecond round picks in total to bring back
Jake Browders. So I think thattype of deal Washington will ultimately be amenable
for Tis Jones. So maybe thatsame type of flexibility will be able to
(30:41):
be had for Dallas and there Kallekhu'sefforts as well. All Right, we
are going to take a break andcome back with more Jake after the break.
Jake Fisher from Yahoo Sports joining ushere stick around. Lots more trade
talk to come next here on ninetyseven won the Freak. This is Dartnwitzky
(31:02):
and you're listening to the Saturday Steinlinewith my guys Steiny on ninety seven to
one the Freak. Thanks for stickingwith us here on the Saturday Steinline presented
by Panini Trading cars and Collectibles.Let's just get right to it, no
delay. Part two more with YahooSports Jake Fisher, starting with a question
I often get and I relay tohim, how do you rate the Mavericks
(31:30):
trade assets? Because that's a questionI get a lot. How do you
grade what the Mavericks actually have tobe able to assemble deals? Well,
the twenty twenty seven first round pickwe were talking about before the break,
I think has more value than twentytwenty nine that the Lakers. That's the
only Lakers pick that they have available. So just having a real first in
(31:52):
the market is something that Dallas hasto their advantage and Milwaukee doesn't have that
for example, and the six Orsteamreticent for putting in any of their stuff.
There are a few teams who aretruly in the playoff. You know,
contention, mold that have a realbonafide first round pick that it's not
(32:12):
going to be coming like next decadebasically, So that's something that they do
have. It's a real feather intheir cap. Yeah. And look,
I agree with you. I thinkJosh Green, because of the deal he's
on, it is too soon forthem to consider trading him. And if
you remember, at the deadline,and I know you remember because you wrote
a ton about this, Atlanta wantedthe Mavericks number what was it, number
(32:37):
ten pick and Josh Green for ClintCapella, and the Mavericks steadfastly refused that
they felt like it was way toomuch to give up to move in the
draft. But the draft, thedraft, yeah said deadline? Yeah,
oh did I see good catch?Yes? At the draft and the Mavericks
were unwilling to do that. Theydid not want to part with There was
(32:59):
no way they were going to partwith both a lottery pick and Josh Green
for Clint Capella. And I thinkthat stance has been more than validated.
And besides the move that the Maverickswere able to make, they were able
to trade with Oklahoma City move downget number twelve and still get Derek Lively,
who is now not only their centerof the future but their center of
(33:19):
the present. So they very muchdo value Josh Green. But again,
I think if they want to getinto the Kuzma mix seriously, it is
going to require them to include eitherOmas or Hardy along with the pick because
they only have that one first.And you mentioned Avdia. That's a player
Dallas has pursued in the past aswell, and I think Avdya has a
lot of fans around the league.I don't know that Washington is really willing
(33:43):
to trade him at this point.It sounds like they're much more focused on
Kuzma and Tias Jones possibilities. Butwe'll see go on right as well throw
him in. Yes, So onFriday you posted a piece that you really
you ran through a lot of guyswho you don't see getting traded at this
(34:05):
point, and I think the onecaveat we do want to throw in.
We do have to remember there dotend to be surprises. You know.
A year ago, Kyrie Irving andKevin Durant were traded in the last three
four days before the deadline, andif we had zoomed out a week before.
I don't know that we expected eitherone to be moved, but they
both did. And I'm not tryingto suggest that we're in for that kind
(34:28):
of surprise now. But I'm notgonna lie when I read your Friday piece.
You know, Lowry Markin and MichaleBridges, Jared Allen, Marcus Smart,
Karl, Anthony Towns, Huminga.I know I'm probably leaving out a
name or two at all, WendellCarter Junior now as well. It sounds
like all of these guys are stayingput. At least that's the read we
(34:52):
have entering these last four or fivedays. Do we have any surprises in
store? Can you look into yourcrystal and tell me? Can you see
something materializing? If I was goingto look into my crystal ball, I
was gonna say something with Houston,just because there's just a lot of noise
that I believe is accurate that theywere looking and had the idea dating back
(35:15):
to this summer when they signed JackLandale to very you know, non guaranteed
future money, and Jeff Green tonon future money. I think even Fred
van Vleet's deal is very frontloaded withouttrue guarantees in the back line. So
I wonder you Victor Oladipo's salary withLandale and other pieces was going to be
a potential key piece being that aspiringcontract to go out and try to get
(35:37):
somebody and match a number. Iwon't. I haven't checked with anyone on
Houston Sin, So I wonder doesthat take them out of the running for
a real big swim there? Imean elsewhere? I don't really see it.
I mean, it's just because theseso the playing tournament has made so
many teams still consider themselves a realchampionship threat. And then you add on
(36:01):
Miami making that magical eight seed run, like a lot of teams think they
can just do that this year.So I don't know. I mean,
if someone called and got a realplayer available, I would think they would
have to just overwhelm a team withtheir asking price. So I'm not giving
(36:24):
you the answer you wanted to.But I just don't. We want the
truth. We want we want wewant the truth. We want to know
what's really going to happen. RichPaul came out Friday and said, enough
with the Lebron is getting traded speculation, And I honestly never believe that for
a second. I just don't seeany way the Lakers would consider an in
season parting with Lebron James. TheLakers do not trade their stars. That's
(36:47):
just not what they do. AndJeanie Buss will constantly cite that this is
the approach my father took, andI want to stay true to that,
and abruptly trading Lebron James in themiddle of a season would not be a
page out of the Jerry Buss playbook. So I really didn't give that a
whole lot of credence. But itis interesting we mentioned Houston. The Rockets
(37:12):
have been trying to pry McHale Bridgesaway from the Nets. The Nets have
refused all of those overtures. AsI understand it, even if Jalen Green
was in that package, the Netsare saying they wouldn't do it. I
guess we'll see if that resolve holdsall the way through Thursday. You live
in the Nets neighborhood. What's yourread on that? My sense is the
(37:34):
Nets are going to end up beingmore of a seller. I did not
include Nick Claxton in my article alongthe lines of the guys that aren't being
considered available for trade. But likeanytime I talk to someone in Brooklyn,
they say, we love Nick andI make somebody could have written a's basically
what I'm saying, but I justyes to your point, you wrote it
(37:57):
in your substack. There's mixed signalsthere aside from that, like the names
that everyone's talking about, Spencer Dinwiddie, Royce O'Neil, Dori and Finney Smith.
And I think in the seller's marketright now, where there aren't that
many teams willing to be a seller, the word around the league is like
there's some unrealistic asking prices for players. So the nets have been very characterized
(38:17):
for you know, ever since theygot Dorian Phinney Smith to say that they
want two first round picks for him, and I want one first round pick
for Royce O'Neil, And who knowswhat the price point is for Spencer dinwiddie.
But I am expecting that Rose O'Neilcould be had for a couple of
seconds, just like the Tires Jonesstuff we said before the break. Dorian,
I think they're gonna want a realfirst at a minimum for him.
(38:38):
I do Spencer. I think he'smore of a. He's up for a
new deal as well, so that'spart of it too. I think he's
more of a if the right thingcomes along, because they do have this
clear hole at guard, which Iwould have personally thought that Brooklyn would be
an obvious match for Atlanta with theJohn Te Murray. I know they've had
(39:00):
conversations. I know they've checked in, but I'm pretty confident that the Hawk's
asking price of two first round picksand a good player as well, it
is just too rich for Brooklyn's blood, and I don't really see another real
point guard option that makes sense tothem right now. Like I've heard,
they checked on Bruce Brown, butI don't think that's I don't think they're
(39:21):
going to be wanting to put afirst round out the door for someone that
doesn't have long term salary situation likelike he does either, So I think
it's mostly going to be seller stuffwith Royce and with Dorian pinnismith Man.
The clock in radio moves at aspeed that I still I do this every
week and I still can't believe howfast this damn clock goes. But you
(39:43):
mentioned him. Dejonte Murray, what'syour best forecast on what happened. His
name has been out there as muchas anyone apart from Chicago's Zach Lavine since
November. It's been really a leaguewide focus. But do we think that
Dejante Murray actually gets moved here beforethis deadline? I'm starting to think it's
(40:06):
closer to fifty to fifty than wethought all along. The Hawks have always
said to me whenever I've chucked onit, no, we don't have to
treat him, which is what theydid with John Collins for three years.
If we're taking them at face valueand their past history and they don't get
their price point for him, Ido think it possibly sticks around. I
(40:27):
mean, the only teams I've reallyheard actual offers about have been from the
Lakers and from Utah, and theLakers just don't have a clear, obvious
packet that's going to give the Hawksthe picks they want, the player they
want, a player who doesn't havewhat's considered to be like bad long term
salary, and the Lakers get twomore extra first round picks to play with
(40:50):
once the calendar flips over the nextseason come draft time. So could it
be Utah? Maybe could it beone of the other ten teams that Hawks
people will say are in the mix. I haven't been able to find ten,
so I'm weary of that that numberis that robust. So I fifty
to fifty sound like such a couchingthing to say. Do I just say
(41:10):
that to say we have not reallydiscussed the possibility that he could be there
come February ninth. I do thinkthat is real. I do think there's
a chance that the Hawks don't movehim, when for the longest time the
word was, oh, he's definitelyout the door. This has been tremendous,
as I knew it would be,And to the listeners, I'm sorry
(41:32):
that we've had to cut it soshort because I feel like we did two
segments and I still feel like wewere super rush. But before we go,
please tell everyone what is the easiestway again to find your book,
because I cannot urge strongly enough.NBA Fans Built to Lose. How the
NBA's tanking era changed the league Forever. By Jake Fisher of Yahoo Sports.
(41:54):
Go get this book, Jake,How do they do that? Amazon book
shot dot Org. My publisher,Triumph Books. It's in Barnes and Nobles
all over the country. Really appreciateyou plugging it. It's got over three
hundred interviews with executives and agents andstar players and college coaches, and there's
just a true behind the scenes,kurtin being peeled back experience in there that
(42:16):
I think, if you like thistrade talk that we just had, and
it'll really give you a sense ofwhat happens on the ground, Young Jakie,
I'm wishing you good luck next weekfor the rest of trade season.
Not too much though, Please don'tmake me look bad everyone there, he
goes my friend Jake Fisher from YahooSports. MAVs pregame seven pm tonight with
(42:39):
Kevin Gray Bucks at MAVs Chuck Coopersteinon the call at seven point thirty tonight.
Thank you Groobs, thank you Maddie. And this show is dedicated to
Carl Weathers, who made Apollo CreedImmortal my favorite movie character of all time.
(42:59):
I will love and miss you forever.
Welcome to the Saturday Steinline with MarkStein, presented by Panini Trading Cards and
Collectibles on ninety seven to one TheFreak, the official homes Well Dallas Mavericks
Games, hosted by legendary NBA reporterand publisher of his subs Deck the Steinline.
Here's Mark Stein. Hey, everyone, welcome in to the Saturday Steinline
(00:30):
presented by Panini Trading Cards and Collectibles. Our noon hour get together on the
first Saturday in February. Can onlyneed that we are closing in on the
NBA trade deadline. The trade buzzersounds locally two pm Thursday afternoon, so
(00:56):
five ish days left, just fivedays and change away for the Mavericks to
make a move of some sort.They're obviously hoping that it is a move
of consequence for what would be theeighth successive trade deadline, ninth in the
last ten years. Think everyone willrecall a year ago at this time on
(01:21):
the Sunday before the trade deadline,so the equivalent of tomorrow. We did
get a trade thunderbolt from the Mavericks. A deal was struck to send Spencer
Dinwiddie Dorian Finney Smith an unprotected firstin twenty twenty ninth, second round picks
in twenty twenty seven and twenty nine, all of that package to Brooklyn for
(01:47):
Kyrie Irving. That trade was officiallyconsummated with the Nets on February sixth,
twenty twenty three. A year later, on February sixth, twenty twenty four,
Tuesday Day, where will the Mavericksbe? Where else but Brooklyn?
For Kyrie Irving, if healthy toplay a road game against his old team
(02:14):
for the first time, the favoriteteam of Kyrie's youth. Of course,
the unavoidable reality here you have tounderline if healthy, because one year on
from that big trade, when it'stime to talk about where the Mavericks are,
and now I'm speaking more metaphorically andpsyche wise than in terms of strict
(02:38):
location, it's got to be saidthey are only in a slightly better,
slightly happier place. This team isstill hugely undersized. Incredible stat this week
from my pal is tak Franco fromd Magazine. Eighty percent of the time
the Mavericks are still No one istall on the court at six seven.
(03:02):
Only Chicago place smaller than the Mavericks. They're still struggling mightily with team health
scuffling to break away from the ranksof the mediocre, and so I think
pressure is clearly mounting on this teamonce again to make a move to strengthen
(03:23):
the roster, to give Luka Doncicmore help. In the wake of that
hugely damaging free agent free agent defection, the free agent departure of Jalen Brunson,
who is now officially an NBA AllStar for the first time. Losing
(03:47):
Brunson to the Knicks in the summerof twenty twenty two, the ramifications are
still being felt, and I thinkit is fair to remind people remember when
Kyrie Irving first became available that samesummer. I'm sorry, yes, the
summer of twenty twenty two. Mymath is a little shaky. On the
(04:08):
Saturday morning, Dallas had no interestwhen Kyrie Irving first tried to make his
escape from the Nets. Then eightmonths later, in February twenty twenty three,
the Mavericks now desperate trying to replace, trying to fill the Jalen Brunson
void. They do outbid the Lakersand anyone else interested to trade for Kyrie
(04:30):
Irving. Now in February twenty twentyfour. I don't want to act like
there are no good things happening.Derek Lively the second has been nothing short
of a revelation. Apart from histremendously poor injury luck lately, most recently
taking a shot to the face fromOrlando's Wendel Carter Junior that has forced poor
(04:55):
Lively to be fitted with a faceshield to protect a broken ne But look,
Lively's Year one progress has been tremendous. He looks like exactly the sort
of rim running, defensive minded inthe Tyson Chandler Mould Center that he was
promised to be from the moment Dallasdrafted him. Derek Lively is undeniably a
(05:24):
teammate who fits fantastically well in atheoretical lineup that you would assemble around Doncic
Tim Hardaway Junior. He's a legitcontender for six Man of the Year honors,
just as Jason Kidds said he hopedHardaway would be when he came on
(05:49):
this show, when Coach Kid cameon this show about a week before the
season before training camp. Hardaway haslived up to that. He's playing exactly
the way the Mavericks envisioned However,here we are even with those developments that
(06:11):
you can point to as positives andthrow in the Cinderella stories of Dante Exem
Derek Jones Junior. But look,the Mavericks are a team. They started
eight and two and they have sincesettled into what most preseason forecast established as
their likely level. This is atwenty six and twenty two team. We
(06:33):
are one week removed from gospod Doncicnot yet twenty five. Remember un quirking
a seventy three point game in Atlanta, and he's been superhuman here for two
months straight. So there's a risinglevel of chatter locally nationally around the league.
(07:00):
What is Dallas gonna do to spruceup the roster around Doncic before the
trade deadline chimes. That's seventy threepoint picasso for number seventy seven wasn't enough
for Doncic to win Player of theWeek honors in the Western Conference, where
just a few days removed from aJanuary in which Doncic averaged better than thirty
(07:26):
seven and ten. In NBA history, people, only two players have ever
averaged thirty five and ten in backto back months. Nate tiny Archibald,
who I loved did it way backin nineteen seventy three, and Luca just
(07:47):
did it in December and January.Those are the only two players. Not
even Oscar Robertson averaged thirty five andten in back to back months. Did
Luka Doncic win Player of the Monthin January? No, he wasn't going
to. He missed a few gameshimself through injury. The Mavericks were seven
and eight in January, and itjust all adds up to the latest reminder
(08:11):
that the talent around him, ifwe're being candid, and injuries have undeniably
been an issue. I'm not goingto diminish that. But this team just
doesn't win enough consistently to put himin line for these individual prizes that his
statistical production obviously merits. So thechatter is only going to get louder.
(08:35):
This pressure we're talking about to improvethe roster, it ain't going away,
especially now that the NBA trade deadlineis closing in. It's palpable. This
is a team that knows the talentaround Doncic, it still needs multiple upgrades.
This is a team that when itplays host to Milwaukee tonight, the
(08:56):
Greek Freak and Dame time and theBucks new coach Doc Rivers all in town.
They've been here since yesterday. TheBucks practice Friday. Here. Kyrie
Irving is listed as doubtful with athumb sprain. My sense is that he
is unlikely to go even if hedoes play, though this is the seventy
(09:20):
eighth regular season game since Dallas acquiredKyrie Irving. Even if Kyrie did play,
it would only be the thirty ninthtime we've seen these two together.
Exactly. That would represent exactly fiftypercent of the time. Kyrie, very
much like Lively, has had morethan one unfortunate, freakish injury this season
(09:43):
this sum in this thumb thing.You know, he took a swipe down
in the Boston game. It's thesecond time, of course, when Dwight
Powell fell on him. There wasnothing he could do to avoid that.
Those are bad luck scenarios. Butlook, the numbers are the numbers everyone.
The Mavericks were only twelve ten thisseason when Luca and Kyrie are together,
after five and eleven last season.And most of all, we just
(10:07):
don't see them together enough, noteven close. If the Mavericks want to
hush the skeptics, who question thewisdom of this pairing from the start.
If they want to be a topsix team in the West, they've got
to get the two of them onthe court together more and make upgrades.
So look, I think the MAVsknow they need to get something done here
(10:28):
in coming days, and I thinkone of the loudest hints we got to
back that up. It all happenedright here Tuesday morning on ninety seven won
the Freak. Jason Kidd, theMavericks coach, joined the Downbeat. Let's
rewind now to Tuesday and play someof that interview. Jason Kidd talking about
the transcendent talent that is number seventyseven. I've said this before and I'll
(10:56):
say it. You know, foras long as I'm here, you can't
take this on them. For granted, he's better than Dirk. He's in
the in the in the atmosphere ofMJ the best to ever do it,
Lebron Kobe, and so just toappreciate what this young man is doing to
day he's at twenty four, issomething that Dallas has never seen. And
(11:18):
I've said this internally. He isbetter than Dirk. He does things that
Dirk could never do and now it'syou know, the opportunity of getting the
right people around him to ultimately wina championship. You just said two times
that Luca is better than Dirk.Dirk won a title and had been to
(11:39):
two. Do you feel comfortable sayingthat on a guy that has not made
even made the finals yet? Yeah, MJ is the same way. MJ
didn't make it into his thirties.This young man is twenty four and is
breaking all the records that stand infront of him. And he's a winner,
and his ultimate goal is to towin a championship, and he will
(12:01):
get there and not just you know, win one, but he will win
multiple. I don't when it's allsaid and done. Maybe he went a
touch too far. Maybe he flooredit on the hype machine more than some
MAVs fans would have enjoyed. MaybeJason Kidd is prematurely anointing Doncic to the
(12:26):
level we expect him to get whenwe can take a look at a more
complete, fuller resume. But look, dark Noovitsky doesn't dispute anything that Jason
Kidd says. Where we see whatwe see from Luca in year six,
what he's already achieved as an individualforce. He's on this path. And
(12:48):
look, if you think kids laidit on too thick, that's fine.
Everyone can grade those comments however theywant. But when you really listen to
it, the sound bites from earlierthis week, they tell you that the
Mavericks know, as much as theywould like to believe that injuries have been
the main culprit. They know amove, maybe moves with an S are
(13:18):
needed immediately. The roster around downtDoncic it's still well shy of where it
needs to be. So we aregoing to spend the rest of this show
discussing their options to bolster it beforethe two pm Thursday afternoon trade deadline.
Can the Mavericks acquire Kyle Kuzma fromWashington? If not, can they shift
(13:41):
to a secondary target like PJ.Washington from Charlotte? Does PJ. Washington
at six seven really address the sizeissues that the Mavericks have? For me,
Kuzma plays much bigger and can bemore of a difference maker and should
not be judged as a defensive playerbased on what we see in Washington.
(14:03):
Would you surrender Olivier Maxent's prosper orJaden Hardy in a trade package alongside the
Mavericks only available first round pick totrade at twenty twenty seven first. Apologies
(14:24):
for the cough, everyone still stilltrying to shake it and still unsuccessful in
doing so. Would you package oMax or Hardy with that twenty twenty seven
first to land Kuzma for the Wizards? Me? Yes, I would.
I think Kuzma is a really goodfront court fit here, hugely versatile offensive
(14:46):
talent. More defensively, he offersmore on that side than what I think
he shows as a Wizard because hepossesses a tremendously team friendly contract, already
has a working relationship with Jason Kiddand Maverick's assistant coach Jared Dudley from their
time together with the Lakers. Butlook, it's still not clear whether the
(15:07):
MAVs have enough asset wise to convincethe Wizards to part with Kyle Kuzma.
I think Kuzma is a name who'sgonna be talked about a ton as this
trade deadline gets closer. He's upthere with Dejonte Murray in Atlanta and Bruce
Brown in Toronto, and I thinkZach Lavine we still keep him in the
conversation, even though Chicago has reallystruggled to create a trade market for zach
(15:31):
lavine, these are the guys we'rereally keeping our eye on here in the
last few days of the deadline,because remember we've already seen six trades.
There has been a lot of action, so we're gonna have to see the
MAVs only have that one first.Is Washington really lowering its trade price has
been suggested this week by the AthleticsDavid Aldrich and Josh Robbins that maybe the
(15:56):
Wizards won't hold out for two firstsfor Kyle Kuzma. The Wizards need firsts
everyone. They didn't get a firstand outright first when they traded for when
they traded Bradley build of Phoenix andthey traded Christops Porzingis to Boston, they
didn't have leverage. They didn't getan outright first an eaither deal. They
need to make up for that whenthey're trying to trade Kuzma and Tias Jones
(16:21):
and Daniel Gafford, and I don'tthink they're trying to trade Denny Avdya,
And as I've reported a couple timesrecently, the MAVs have tried to go
after both Avdya and Gafford in thepast before this current run at Kyle Kuzma.
Washington needs first. They are inno rush to trade these guys.
They're gonna wait. I think they'llbe patient to try to get what they
(16:44):
want. But we're gonna keep digginginto it. Lets let's enlist the help
of one of the league's foremost expertexperts on all trade matters, one of
the best NBA reporters in the businessYahoo Sports, Jake Fisher. He's going
to join me discuss the Mavericks tradeoptions, assess their trade assets, see
(17:06):
who Dallas can make a play for. This is an absolutely trade talk bursting
edition of the Saturday Steinline presented byPanini Trading Cards and Collectibles. We continue
with two segments of trade discussion withJake Fisher next here on ninety seven Won
the Freak. This is the SaturdaySteinline Wiz Mark Stein presented by Panini Trading
(17:29):
Cards and Collectibles on your official homesto all Dallas Mavericks games. The Freak
The Saturday Steinline dribbles on, presentedas always by my pals from Panini Trading
Cards and Collectibles. Cannot wait tohang out with them at All Star Weekend
(17:52):
in Indianapolis. Panini the title sponsorof the Rookie the Rye Stars game with
rookies, second year players, gleaguers twenty eight guys, including the Mavericks
Derek Lively. He's one of thetwenty eight who made the field and so
can't wait to get out there withmy Panini pals and bring you guys.
(18:15):
Lots of coverage from Indy and thisis such a busy time with the NBA
trade deadline looming. Professional tennis,the ATP Tour, my beloved ATP Tour
back in Dallas this coming week.The Dallas Open is at SMU for one
more year before moving to a largervenue at the Star and Frisco. And
(18:37):
unfortunately, I'm not going to beable to get out there to see a
single ball struck crushing for me.Pro Tennis ATP Tour Tennis back in Dallas,
and it falls during trade deadline week. I'm still scarred from what happened
last year. I tried to sneakout there to watch one day of qualifying
on Sunday and almost mitt I mean, and then minutes of me getting on
(19:00):
the site to see my dear friendMitchell Krueger play what happens the Kyrie Irving
dealer erupts and I had to escapethe facility and get back to the home
office. And I just can't forgetthat. So I'm not even gonna risk
trying to go this time. Butall right, let's get right into the
trade talk. Let's get back toit. As I promised you, We've
(19:21):
got two segments with Jake Fisher fromYahoo Sports, and we really really dive
into the Mavericks trade prospects here.So Maddie, let's go right to it.
Let's connect to our chat with JakeFisher. This everyone is a special
treat. We're gonna do two segmentswith our guest today, who happens to
(19:44):
be one of my favorite people inthe industry. And first of all,
before we even get into the tradechatter with Jake Fisher of Yahoo Sports,
and I know that's what you guysare here for. You're here for the
trade chatter, we know, Butfirst I need to point you to this
incredible book that Jake wrote, Builtto Lose, How the NBA's tanking era
(20:07):
change the league forever. I'm tellingyou, if you want to learn about
the inner workings of this crazy league. If you want to learn about what
really happens in front offices, theway teams really talk and think about team
building, trust me, get thisbook. Read this book. You're going
(20:29):
to be so much smarter about theNBA after you do so. And one
more thing now, as I do, bring mister Fisher into the conversation.
Before I ask him about the bestplaces to find that book, we got
to start with what happened Thursday nighton TNT in the middle of the All
Star Reserves being revealed pregame before Lakersat Celtics, Charles Barkley from Nowhere starts
(20:57):
talking about a story printed this weekthat revealed how NBA veteran swingman Tony Snell
currently playing in the G League forthe main Celtics. Charles starts talking about
how Tony Snell needs to be signedthis week for the rest of the season
to qualify for a tenth year ofservice that would lead to a better pension
(21:21):
to enable Snell to provide better medicalcare for his children, both of whom
have autism. That story was writtenearlier this week by Jake Fisher, So
mister Fisher, welcome in to theSaturday steinline, tell us what it was
like to be sitting there watching insidethe NBA and all of a sudden the
(21:42):
chuckster starts talking about your story.Yeah, man, it was well.
First of all, thanks for havingme, Thanks for the very times introduction
about the book and the Tony piece. I mean, we're here to definitely
talk a ton of trade intel andwe will, we will, we will,
(22:02):
But like I mean to me,I definitely wanted to get into sportswriting,
to use basketball in particular as avehicle to talk about bigger stories that
impact people. And just to seethe overwhelming amount of support that Tony has
gotten from this. It's crazy.Like there's the own, my own personal
(22:26):
connection to it now, and likepeople are texting me and some people are
thanking me for writing it because ofwhat it means to them to have other
people who have children on the spectrum. There's someone a coworker I've never met
before, a Yahu, just sentme a message on our internal slack saying
that her sister and brother in law'schild recently just got diagnosed, and sending
(22:51):
the story to them gave them likesuch a boost knowing that their child could
become an NBA player one Like,I don't know, it's been pretty overwhelming.
I'm not gonna lie. Definitely gotemotional about it all last night,
and I also just want to Itweeted it, but any opportunity I can
(23:11):
to thank Tony and his wife actuallyand honestly their children didn't really have a
say in the matter, but youknow them as well for letting me allow
me to share their story. It'sbeen a true highlight honestly of my season
and probably with my whole career,and rightfully so it was awesome, totally
(23:32):
organic. Those are the kind ofmoments that are just they're great because nobody
saw it coming. I'm sure youdidn't anticipate any of this when you wrote
the story, So that really wasa moving thing to see Charles Barkley take
interest. Because I don't know howmuch Charles is actually following your tweets and
your trade news, I'm gonna guessnot a ton So that was incredibly Probably
(23:53):
not the one thing I will say, Like Tony does have healthcare. The
union situation is that you get apretty good plan with benefits and a reimbursement
bank account starting at three years andthen a better program at seven years,
so he has that for himself,and this extra tenth year would just include
(24:14):
his whole family. And there's justa different tweak here of like the medical
planner, tiree benefits have a differentversion of years of service compared to what
the NBA does. So to countin the NBA guyes, you need one
day on an active roster. That'sit for the benefits plan, which is
a whole I mean, it's healthcarecterlife, so it should be a huge
requirement. Get to be on ateam for half the season, which the
(24:37):
deadline to do that unofficially but officiallyin the union bylaws and whatever the fine
print is. It's February second,So we'll see if it happens. I
don't think it will, unfortunately,but maybe this is enough to put out
information about it that he could endup in some of Newdonnis has them type
roles at the start of next season, and maybe he'll get it come twenty
(25:00):
twenty five. So I really muchlove to Tony and his family. Yeah,
and I think a lot of peoplehave their eye on it now.
A lot of people are talking aboutTony Snell's future, So you might be
right. It could still happen evenif it doesn't happen this season. All
right, let's try to move intotrade talk now, because that, of
course, is what everyone is gatheredto take in. And you are particularly
(25:26):
popular this time because of all theintel that you print, that you gather.
On Friday, you just published amassive trade deadline notebook filled with gems
that I'm sure were read by fansall over the NBA map. But you
know where I live. You knowthe team that I am closest to in
proximity, the Mavericks. They've madea deadline deal. I think it's seven
(25:48):
years in a row now. We'veboth written a lot about how active they
are. They are looking to upgradein the front court. They would love
to bring in a four. Theyare one of the two teams most routinely
linked as a Kyle Kuzma suitor alongsideSacramento. Tell me what you expect from
(26:10):
the Mavericks here in the last fourto five days before the deadline. So
if we're taking certain people at theirword that the Wizards are not going to
come down from their to first roundpick price point for Kyle Kuzmo, being
that he's on this four year dealand I could basically run it back next
year and have the same exact askingpress for him. Because his salaries around
(26:33):
it's under twenty five million a year, Like that's considered to be a pretty
value contract moving forward in the landscapeof the league's cap that is expected always
to rise. Like, I don'tknow if Dallas really will be able to
get into that bidding war and Ernestcome. You know, the end of
this being that they only really haveone first round pick. To my noology,
(26:55):
you probably have this more style thanI do this twenty twenty seven first
rounder that I don't know that thatplus whatever, you know, we've really
only heard the Mavericks willing to putout a combination of you know, Rashawn
Holmes and Tim Hardway junior. LikeI saw you wrote in your sub stock
this week. They're not putting inJosh Green, Kayden Hardy. I wonder
(27:18):
how willing they'll be they will beto put him in the thing, But
I don't think they're super dunghill aboutpart of ways with him. Oh,
Max Prosper hasn't really been any realfactor for them this season. I wonder
if including him in a deal wouldsatisfy the Wizards two pick asking price.
But I think the big difference betweenDallas and Sacramento right now, I think
(27:40):
the Kings are looking at like obviousupgrades for Harrison Barnes' salary, So they
were looking at Pascal Siakam. JeremyGrant is another name to keep an eye
on that I know Dallas has checkedin on too. But Dallas, you
keep hearing, at least from myadvantage point, maybe you've heard differently.
I keep hearing other names as well, Andrew Wiggins, Dori and Finny Smith,
PJ WHT. There's definitely more.So it seems like Dallas, compared
(28:03):
to Sacramento, is more open toa wider range of potential targets versus the
Kings. I think really just hadloftier visions of potentially using the Harrison Barnes
Kevin Herder package to truly upgrade thethe top tier of their roster. Jake
Fisher from Yahoo Sports joining us hereon the Saturday Steinline presented by Panini Trading
Cards and Collectibles. Something you saidthere that caught my interest. You know,
(28:27):
we saw the story this week Earlierthis week from The Athletic, which
suggested that no the Wizards they wouldtrade Kuzma for less than two firsts.
Is your sense that there's still debateabout that. That is your anticipation that
the Wizards are still holding out fortwo first Because to me, there's the
(28:49):
MAVs. Like you said, theMAVs only have a first in twenty twenty
seven to trade. If the Maverickswant to acquire Kyle Kuzma, they're going
to have to be willing to partwith an O Max prosper or a Hardy
or maybe even both to compensate forthe fact that they only have one first
to trade. What is your senseof what the Wizards truly want for Kuzma,
(29:11):
because Kuzma's contract is going to remainvery, very tradable beyond this deadline.
I think the messaging in that Athleticarticle that came from team sources,
so my read on it and fromasking people about it, is that Washington
probably wants that sentiment out there tonot dissuade teams from getting creative, like
(29:33):
you just said, to put inother pieces that could equivate to a first
round pick so that way they actuallydo get business done. Because the Wizards
do want future draft capital. Theydo want to try to make up for
the lack of clear superstar hall thatdidn't come back for badly Beal. And
the flexibility I think will be therein the Ties Jones stuff too, where
(29:59):
yesterday I got a strong sense froma lot of people, people who have
worked with Michael Winger, the presidentof Monumental Sports, who oversee the Wizards
and everything else there, that theyexpect Washington would be willing to come down
to take whether it be three,four or five seconds for Tyas Jones.
The Hawks sent out five for SadikBay and there were three in the Rui
(30:19):
Hachimur deal and three in the ThomasBryant trade with Denver and the Leakers.
And I think the Bucks had toget off some salary in the process as
well, but they gave up fivesecond round picks in total to bring back
Jake Browders. So I think thattype of deal Washington will ultimately be amenable
for Tis Jones. So maybe thatsame type of flexibility will be able to
(30:41):
be had for Dallas and there Kallekhu'sefforts as well. All Right, we
are going to take a break andcome back with more Jake after the break.
Jake Fisher from Yahoo Sports joining ushere stick around. Lots more trade
talk to come next here on ninetyseven won the Freak. This is Dartnwitzky
(31:02):
and you're listening to the Saturday Steinlinewith my guys Steiny on ninety seven to
one the Freak. Thanks for stickingwith us here on the Saturday Steinline presented
by Panini Trading cars and Collectibles.Let's just get right to it, no
delay. Part two more with YahooSports Jake Fisher, starting with a question
I often get and I relay tohim, how do you rate the Mavericks
(31:30):
trade assets? Because that's a questionI get a lot. How do you
grade what the Mavericks actually have tobe able to assemble deals? Well,
the twenty twenty seven first round pickwe were talking about before the break,
I think has more value than twentytwenty nine that the Lakers. That's the
only Lakers pick that they have available. So just having a real first in
(31:52):
the market is something that Dallas hasto their advantage and Milwaukee doesn't have that
for example, and the six Orsteamreticent for putting in any of their stuff.
There are a few teams who aretruly in the playoff. You know,
contention, mold that have a realbonafide first round pick that it's not
(32:12):
going to be coming like next decadebasically, So that's something that they do
have. It's a real feather intheir cap. Yeah. And look,
I agree with you. I thinkJosh Green, because of the deal he's
on, it is too soon forthem to consider trading him. And if
you remember, at the deadline,and I know you remember because you wrote
a ton about this, Atlanta wantedthe Mavericks number what was it, number
(32:37):
ten pick and Josh Green for ClintCapella, and the Mavericks steadfastly refused that
they felt like it was way toomuch to give up to move in the
draft. But the draft, thedraft, yeah said deadline? Yeah,
oh did I see good catch?Yes? At the draft and the Mavericks
were unwilling to do that. Theydid not want to part with There was
(32:59):
no way they were going to partwith both a lottery pick and Josh Green
for Clint Capella. And I thinkthat stance has been more than validated.
And besides the move that the Maverickswere able to make, they were able
to trade with Oklahoma City move downget number twelve and still get Derek Lively,
who is now not only their centerof the future but their center of
(33:19):
the present. So they very muchdo value Josh Green. But again,
I think if they want to getinto the Kuzma mix seriously, it is
going to require them to include eitherOmas or Hardy along with the pick because
they only have that one first.And you mentioned Avdia. That's a player
Dallas has pursued in the past aswell, and I think Avdya has a
lot of fans around the league.I don't know that Washington is really willing
(33:43):
to trade him at this point.It sounds like they're much more focused on
Kuzma and Tias Jones possibilities. Butwe'll see go on right as well throw
him in. Yes, So onFriday you posted a piece that you really
you ran through a lot of guyswho you don't see getting traded at this
(34:05):
point, and I think the onecaveat we do want to throw in.
We do have to remember there dotend to be surprises. You know.
A year ago, Kyrie Irving andKevin Durant were traded in the last three
four days before the deadline, andif we had zoomed out a week before.
I don't know that we expected eitherone to be moved, but they
both did. And I'm not tryingto suggest that we're in for that kind
(34:28):
of surprise now. But I'm notgonna lie when I read your Friday piece.
You know, Lowry Markin and MichaleBridges, Jared Allen, Marcus Smart,
Karl, Anthony Towns, Huminga.I know I'm probably leaving out a
name or two at all, WendellCarter Junior now as well. It sounds
like all of these guys are stayingput. At least that's the read we
(34:52):
have entering these last four or fivedays. Do we have any surprises in
store? Can you look into yourcrystal and tell me? Can you see
something materializing? If I was goingto look into my crystal ball, I
was gonna say something with Houston,just because there's just a lot of noise
that I believe is accurate that theywere looking and had the idea dating back
(35:15):
to this summer when they signed JackLandale to very you know, non guaranteed
future money, and Jeff Green tonon future money. I think even Fred
van Vleet's deal is very frontloaded withouttrue guarantees in the back line. So
I wonder you Victor Oladipo's salary withLandale and other pieces was going to be
a potential key piece being that aspiringcontract to go out and try to get
(35:37):
somebody and match a number. Iwon't. I haven't checked with anyone on
Houston Sin, So I wonder doesthat take them out of the running for
a real big swim there? Imean elsewhere? I don't really see it.
I mean, it's just because theseso the playing tournament has made so
many teams still consider themselves a realchampionship threat. And then you add on
(36:01):
Miami making that magical eight seed run, like a lot of teams think they
can just do that this year.So I don't know. I mean,
if someone called and got a realplayer available, I would think they would
have to just overwhelm a team withtheir asking price. So I'm not giving
(36:24):
you the answer you wanted to.But I just don't. We want the
truth. We want we want wewant the truth. We want to know
what's really going to happen. RichPaul came out Friday and said, enough
with the Lebron is getting traded speculation, And I honestly never believe that for
a second. I just don't seeany way the Lakers would consider an in
season parting with Lebron James. TheLakers do not trade their stars. That's
(36:47):
just not what they do. AndJeanie Buss will constantly cite that this is
the approach my father took, andI want to stay true to that,
and abruptly trading Lebron James in themiddle of a season would not be a
page out of the Jerry Buss playbook. So I really didn't give that a
whole lot of credence. But itis interesting we mentioned Houston. The Rockets
(37:12):
have been trying to pry McHale Bridgesaway from the Nets. The Nets have
refused all of those overtures. AsI understand it, even if Jalen Green
was in that package, the Netsare saying they wouldn't do it. I
guess we'll see if that resolve holdsall the way through Thursday. You live
in the Nets neighborhood. What's yourread on that? My sense is the
(37:34):
Nets are going to end up beingmore of a seller. I did not
include Nick Claxton in my article alongthe lines of the guys that aren't being
considered available for trade. But likeanytime I talk to someone in Brooklyn,
they say, we love Nick andI make somebody could have written a's basically
what I'm saying, but I justyes to your point, you wrote it
(37:57):
in your substack. There's mixed signalsthere aside from that, like the names
that everyone's talking about, Spencer Dinwiddie, Royce O'Neil, Dori and Finney Smith.
And I think in the seller's marketright now, where there aren't that
many teams willing to be a seller, the word around the league is like
there's some unrealistic asking prices for players. So the nets have been very characterized
(38:17):
for you know, ever since theygot Dorian Phinney Smith to say that they
want two first round picks for him, and I want one first round pick
for Royce O'Neil, And who knowswhat the price point is for Spencer dinwiddie.
But I am expecting that Rose O'Neilcould be had for a couple of
seconds, just like the Tires Jonesstuff we said before the break. Dorian,
I think they're gonna want a realfirst at a minimum for him.
(38:38):
I do Spencer. I think he'smore of a. He's up for a
new deal as well, so that'spart of it too. I think he's
more of a if the right thingcomes along, because they do have this
clear hole at guard, which Iwould have personally thought that Brooklyn would be
an obvious match for Atlanta with theJohn Te Murray. I know they've had
(39:00):
conversations. I know they've checked in, but I'm pretty confident that the Hawk's
asking price of two first round picksand a good player as well, it
is just too rich for Brooklyn's blood, and I don't really see another real
point guard option that makes sense tothem right now. Like I've heard,
they checked on Bruce Brown, butI don't think that's I don't think they're
(39:21):
going to be wanting to put afirst round out the door for someone that
doesn't have long term salary situation likelike he does either, So I think
it's mostly going to be seller stuffwith Royce and with Dorian pinnismith Man.
The clock in radio moves at aspeed that I still I do this every
week and I still can't believe howfast this damn clock goes. But you
(39:43):
mentioned him. Dejonte Murray, what'syour best forecast on what happened. His
name has been out there as muchas anyone apart from Chicago's Zach Lavine since
November. It's been really a leaguewide focus. But do we think that
Dejante Murray actually gets moved here beforethis deadline? I'm starting to think it's
(40:06):
closer to fifty to fifty than wethought all along. The Hawks have always
said to me whenever I've chucked onit, no, we don't have to
treat him, which is what theydid with John Collins for three years.
If we're taking them at face valueand their past history and they don't get
their price point for him, Ido think it possibly sticks around. I
(40:27):
mean, the only teams I've reallyheard actual offers about have been from the
Lakers and from Utah, and theLakers just don't have a clear, obvious
packet that's going to give the Hawksthe picks they want, the player they
want, a player who doesn't havewhat's considered to be like bad long term
salary, and the Lakers get twomore extra first round picks to play with
(40:50):
once the calendar flips over the nextseason come draft time. So could it
be Utah? Maybe could it beone of the other ten teams that Hawks
people will say are in the mix. I haven't been able to find ten,
so I'm weary of that that numberis that robust. So I fifty
to fifty sound like such a couchingthing to say. Do I just say
(41:10):
that to say we have not reallydiscussed the possibility that he could be there
come February ninth. I do thinkthat is real. I do think there's
a chance that the Hawks don't movehim, when for the longest time the
word was, oh, he's definitelyout the door. This has been tremendous,
as I knew it would be,And to the listeners, I'm sorry
(41:32):
that we've had to cut it soshort because I feel like we did two
segments and I still feel like wewere super rush. But before we go,
please tell everyone what is the easiestway again to find your book,
because I cannot urge strongly enough.NBA Fans Built to Lose. How the
NBA's tanking era changed the league Forever. By Jake Fisher of Yahoo Sports.
(41:54):
Go get this book, Jake,How do they do that? Amazon book
shot dot Org. My publisher,Triumph Books. It's in Barnes and Nobles
all over the country. Really appreciateyou plugging it. It's got over three
hundred interviews with executives and agents andstar players and college coaches, and there's
just a true behind the scenes,kurtin being peeled back experience in there that
(42:16):
I think, if you like thistrade talk that we just had, and
it'll really give you a sense ofwhat happens on the ground, Young Jakie,
I'm wishing you good luck next weekfor the rest of trade season.
Not too much though, Please don'tmake me look bad everyone there, he
goes my friend Jake Fisher from YahooSports. MAVs pregame seven pm tonight with
(42:39):
Kevin Gray Bucks at MAVs Chuck Coopersteinon the call at seven point thirty tonight.
Thank you Groobs, thank you Maddie. And this show is dedicated to
Carl Weathers, who made Apollo CreedImmortal my favorite movie character of all time.
(42:59):
I will love and miss you forever.
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