February 25, 2024 • 43 mins
Buzz about these Mavericks -- as well as Luka Dončić's MVP chances -- is starting to build. On the latest edition of The Saturday Stein Line presented by Panini Trading Cards and Collectibles, Marc Stein talks about surging Dallas with Ben Golliver of The Washington Post and Mavericks forward Maxi Kleber.
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(00:02):
Welcome to the Saturday Steinline with MarkStein, presented by Benini Trading Cards and
Collectibles on ninety seven to one TheFreak, the official homes Well Dallas Nevericks
Games hosted by legendary NBIA reporter andpublisher of his substackt The Steinline. Here's
Mark Stein. Hey, everyone,welcome in to the Saturday Steinline presented by
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Panini Trading Cards and Collectibles. Iam back from All Star weekend in Indianapolis.
If I am being completely and totallyhonest and transparent, I am a
touch distracted this morning, this afternoon, this Saturday lunchtime because Manchester City is
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playing as we speak, and theTV in the studio does not work,
so I am trying to keep aneye on it on my phone while we
get ready to dive into an hourhere of NBA talk. The Mavericks are
practicing right now. They fly latertoday back to Indianapolis for Luka, Doncic
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and Derek Lively. Second the firsttrip of the season to Indianapolis for everyone
else. Four game roadswing through theEast looms for your Mavericks Indiana, Cleveland,
Toronto, and Boston. The MAVs, though they're making this trip as
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we speak, with a share withthe longest active winning streak in the NBA.
The MAVs won seven in a row. Truth to be told, the
All Star Break did not come ata good time for this team. They
won six of those seven in arow before the You do not want to
stop playing when you're hot like that. And then Thursday Night, Big Game.
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Phoenix is here to tip off thestretch run. And remember it's not
the second half. Really two thirdsof the season gone by the time the
All Star Break hits. It wasthis season literally exactly two thirds of the
NBA schedule. There are twelve hundredand thirty regular season games every season in
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the NBA, eight hundred twenty exactlytwo thirds played before the twenty twenty three
to twenty four season resume Thursday night, So Phoenix is here, season series
tiebreaker on the line. The MAVsabsolutely overwhelm the Suns in the second half,
get the win, keep pace withthe Mighty Celtics Boston. There are
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still doubts and questions about Boston inthe playoffs, but they really the Celts
are assembling just a dream regular season. They're top five in offensive and defensive
efficiency. They've got a nightly averagepoint margin of a little bit over ten.
They're winning, you know, they'rewinning games by their average nightly scorer.
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They're plus ten. Doesn't get muchbetter than that. But MAVs really
impressive to overtake the Suns in thesecond half. Kyrie Irving, he's been
back for seven games now, backfrom the thumb spring that sideline him for
six games. The MAVs have wonall seven since Kyrie Irving has returned.
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Luka Doncic just had his league leadingeleventh forty point game. Dallas is ten
to one in those games. Andsuddenly, now Luka Doncic MVP chatter everywhere.
It's all over the place, justlike more and more you hear it.
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Luca suddenly at the forefront of theMVP race with Denver's Nikola Yokich,
who, by the way, hasonly thrown up two triple doubles in Denver's
two wins since the Nuggets came backfrom All Star breaks, so Yokich ain't
going away. Yannis is still inthere. But Milwaukee's gonna have to have
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a real surge here in the lastthird of the season, because they were
struggling three and seven under Doc Riversuntil going to Minnesota last night and getting
a very impressive victory. The Wolveshad ESPN in town all day, doing
literally all day coverage in the Wolvesthen lose at home to Milwaukee. Did
not work out as planned for theWolves, but it's amazing what happens when
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you zoom from twenty six and twentythree to thirty three and twenty three.
Three things are going on to sparkall this For Dallas. The obvious one,
Luca and Kyrie are together again.They've only played forty five games together
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in nearly thirteen months as teammates.Kyrie Irving remember traded to the Dallas Mavericks
on February sixth, twenty twenty three, so we're closing in on thirteen months.
But this season they're nineteen and tenas a duo when they're on the
floor together, compared to five andeleven last season. Key factor number two
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the two trade newcomers PJ. Washingtonand Daniel Gafford have clearly given this team
an infusion of depth and size andphysicality all needed desperately. And then let's
not overlook number three. Maxi Klibahas not only returned from a toe injury
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that's limited him to twenty games totalthis season. But he's looking like the
Maxi Kliba who had such a hugerole in the Mavericks Cinderella run to the
Western Conference Finals in twenty twenty two. And we will speak to Maxiklba later
in the show. I caught upwith him Thursday night in the locker room
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after the win over Phoenix. Wewill play that sound shortly segment three.
So look, I would be exaggeratingif I sat here and tried to claim
that the vibes are immaculate. Theyare not. That cannot be said.
Not after a week where there werestories of Donnie Nelson's lawsuit against the Mavericks
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potentially going to trial in December,a lot of dismay voiced by MAVs fans,
justifiable dismay from what I can gather, about some serious hikes in ticket
pricing starting next season that was justannounced. Over the past week or so,
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there was the painful recounting for MAVsfans coming directly from Jalen Brunson.
Jalen Brunson went on All the Smokewith Matt Barnes, Steven Jackson, and
Jalen Brunson spelled out exactly how theMavericks repeatedly botched contract negotiations with a little
(07:45):
lefty in his final season in Dallas. The truth is, we already knew
all the details, but to hearit directly from Brunson himself a rundown.
In Jalen's own words, spelling outhow multiple times the Mavericks refused to give
(08:07):
him the most they could give himat that point, a four year,
fifty six million dollar contract extension,which would have been the most almighty bargain
in the NBA. The deal brunsit is on now is one of the
great bargains in the NBA, basicallyone hundred million in change over four years
with the Knicks. Not fun tohear all that. And then there were
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the very discouraging scenes on Twitter thatcan't be ignored of two MAVs fans heckling
Kevin Durant in a way over theline manner before Thursday Night's big game with
Phoenix. I watched the whole exchangedfrom mid court my seat on press row.
Durant really handled it as classily,as expertly as humanly possible. He
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even intervened to urge security not toeject the two fans, but look,
I feel you. You guys don'twant to dwell on that stuff. You
want the feel good stuff. Youdon't want to hear about disclaimers. So
back to it. The Mavericks.Your Mavericks have won seven in a row.
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They're honestly generating more local excitement andexternal praise. I don't even remember
it. This lowed during the Cinderellarun to the Western Conference Finals with Brunson
in the spring of twenty twenty two. Ten games over five hundred, Now
thirty three and twenty three. Thisteam is on a forty eight win pace.
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If they can keep winning and getthat thing to a fifty win pace.
If this team can win fifty games, Luca's MVP chances they rise exponentially
because Jokic is not going away andhe's going to be right up there.
Obviously, Joel Embiid will not beeligible. He will not play the Embiid
will not be able to play thesixty five games required now to be an
(10:07):
official MVP candidate. But Lucas gota real shot at this thing now.
He turns twenty five next week.There will be birthday celebrations for Luca here
on ninety seven won the freak.That is my prediction. Luca's birthday will
not go unnoticed on Wednesday. He'sgoing to win his first scoring title.
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He's playing the best ball of hislife. He also looks as happy as
outwardly giddy as we've seen from himin some time. I mean when he
met the media Thursday night after thePhoenix game, I mean he could he
struggled to contain the giddiness. Heonly got a couple days off in Cabo
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after the All Star Game. Hesaid it was enough. He lavished praise
on numerous teammates. You can seeit. He and Kyrie are legitimately in
a really good groove together right now. Something else we will discuss with Maxi
Kleiba in the third segment to gethis perspective as a teammate of these guys.
And again, the cost to makethe trades that Dallas made on deadline
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day, The cost was significant.I don't want to gloss over that just
because the team is winning right now. Two first round picks for players who
might be your fourth and sixth bestplayers, or maybe even your fifth and
seventh best players. It's a lot. But when Luca is displeased. When
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Luca is so clearly energized by whathe thinks this team is now capable of,
it makes a very strong case thatthe expenditure was worth it. That
case gets stronger, a lot stronger. Did you hear what Frank Vogel said
the other night the Suns coach anda very good friend of MAVs coach Jason
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Kidd, The Sons and MAVs lockedin battle to try to nail down a
top six seed in this ridiculously deepWestern Conference. That's what you want.
You want to finish at least sixth, so you don't have to deal with
the plan because the playing looks likeit's going to be a monster. And
there was Vogel on Thursday night callingthe Mavericks a huge team, The Mavericks
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of Dallas huge, says Frank Vogel, who would have dared to say such
a thing two weeks ago. Vogel'sfull quote, they're huge now with Gafford
and Lively having a big monster inthere like that makes them bigger on the
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glass, and you know, anotherlobcatcher bigger defensively at the rim. So
yeah, he enhances what they dotalking about Gafford now joining Derek Lively the
second as true centers on this team. Frank Vogel loves defense. Frank Vogel
loves building a defense around multiple bigswho can protect the rim. Many of
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the defensive principles that the MAVs use, especially during that Western Conference Finals run
in Kids' first season as head coach. Here they were taken from Vogel's Laker
playbook. Remember, Jason Kidds's previousstop before becoming Mavericks coach was serving as
Vogel's top assistant with the Lakers.So to hear vogels analysis very interesting,
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very pertinent. Yet another subject We'regoing to talk with Maxi Kliba in that
third segment. Just all of asudden, now how the Mavericks can line
up up front. They can gowith Lively at the five, or Gafford
at the five, or Kliba atthe five, or Kliba at the four
beside one of the traditional centers.They suddenly have all kinds of optionality and
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looks to throw at other teams thatthey didn't have before the deadline. Kid
said it Thursday night after the Phoenixwin. Quote, We're deep this is
the first time that the MAVs havebeen deep in a long time. The
immediate challenge, of course, isthat the West is also deep, d
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eep deep. Forty eight wins lastseason, that's the MAVs current pace.
Forty eight wins is the MAVs currentpace last season. That got Sacramento to
the number three seed in the West. Forty eight wins abnormal. There were
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only two fifty win teams in theWest last season, Denver and Memphis.
True aberration the NBA's thirty team era, it's about twenty years old. I
did the research last season. Theannual average basically over those first two decades
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five to fifty win teams in theWest. That's what you expect in most
seasons, and more in line withthe West we're looking at right now,
Wolves, Thunder, the La Clippers, Denver, those teams are all comfortably
on fifty win paces. The Pelicanswere on a fifty win pace until they
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lost last night at home to Miami. Dallas is now moving closer to that
territory. The Sun's just a shadeoff that pace. So just again,
just securing the top six seed inthis West to avoid a playing to avoid
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the playing round, it's gonna bean achievement. I mean, look at
the teams that are hitting there rightnow. Phoenix with its superstar trio of
Kevin Durant, Devin Booker and BradleyBeal, although we do have to point
out that trio has only played intwenty two games together so far this season.
Then you've got Sacramento, last season'snumber three team in the West,
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the Lakers with Lebron James and AnthonyDavis, and then Stephen Curry and his
Golden State Warriors. The West isstacked, and you know what, so
is this show. Ben Dolliver ofthe Washington Post, one of my favorite
scribes covering the league. He's gonnajoin us next. We're gonna talk more
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about the Wild West, the MVPrace, what he thinks about the MAVs
from a little bit further removed fromthose of us who see them every day.
We have the chat coming in thethird segment with Moxi Kliba, another
jam packed to the Limit Maximum Klibaepisode of the Saturday Styinline. Stay with
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us. Ben Golliver of the WashingtonPost joins me next. After the break
right here on ninety seven, wonthe Freak. You're listening to the Saturday
Steinline with Mark Stein, presented byBenini Trading Cards and Collectibles on your official
homes Dallas Mavericks Games ninety seven one, The Freaking The Saturday Steinline dribbles on
(17:21):
now, powered as always by mygood friends at Panini Trading Cards and Collectibles.
Had a great time with them attheir three story layer in Indianapolis at
All Star Weekend. We're going tothe guest line in just a moment,
but first a reminder. Text meif you want to connect with a show
via text two one four seven eightseven one nine seven to one or eight
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one seven seven eight seven one nineseven one, use the Steinline text line
send us a message, or ifyou have the iHeartRadio app. Maddie is
ready to grab your record. Ikeep asking for these. I think we've
only got one in the queue andit was a good question, but no
(18:06):
name. I don't even know wholeft it for us. Click the microphone
on the ninety seven to one feedon the iHeartRadio app. Leave me a
message, record a question for meto answer on the show. Use the
microphone app. People, you makeyour voice heard on this show. All
right, let's do it. Let'sgo to the guest line. One of
my good pals is waiting patiently,the excellent national NBA writer for the Washington
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Post, but more importantly, myformer neighbor, a former fellow citizen of
the NBA bubble at Walt Disney Worldin Orlando. In the summer of twenty
twenty, he wrote a tremendous bookabout the experience, bubble Ball bubble Ball.
If I could speak clearly, Iurge you to go out, pick
(18:53):
up a copy and read it.If you haven't already, Let's welcome in
my pal Olliver. Good morning,sir, mister syn How are you doing.
I'm out here in La just buzzingoff of Wemby last night against the
Lakers. I don't know if yousaw that game, but man alive,
he was something special. Kind offeels like the NBA's balance of power is
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tilting from California down there to Texas. Between Wemby and Luke. I think
you guys are going to be runningthis league for a while coming. I
was going to ask you if youwere there, and then I thought,
of course he was there. Whatam I? No way he would miss
the Wemby show A five y five. Is he the He's my Rookie of
the Year. I have to say, like, I know, Chet is
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playing for a really good Thunder team, but the Spurs are not a good
team. They're barely a team.They're so incomplete roster wise, and what
this guy is doing. He's noteven averaging thirty minutes a game and he's
averaging twenty ten and three. Imean, I am not an official voter,
but I would go Wemby for Rookieof the Year. What would you
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in ninety nine times out of onehundred, I would lean towards the player
who is, you know, playingon a team that's near the top of
the staties that's contributing to wins.A player like Chet, where he's a
two way impact guy, so notonly is he a really quality, complimentary
scorer, but he's also you know, an all defense level guy on that
and and anchoring a really really gooddefense. I just think Wemby is the
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one out of one hundred. He'sthe exception here because the skill level and
the talent gap between Wemby and Chetis massive. Even though Chen is gonna
be a perennial All Star player,I want to be surprised if Chet was
an All Star next year, andI thought, you know, he probably
deserved a little bit more talk asa potential snub this year. But Wemby
is just on a different planet.I mean, I think it's correct that
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his nickname is the Alien. Ithink that was the best performance I've ever
seen from a rookie live in myentire life. I can't go all the
way back to like Lebron's rookie year. You know, I'm not a hyperbolegue
guy, but just the sheer volumeof winning plays he made defensively between the
steals, the blogs covering for histeammates. Of course, we know he
can score. He's hitting the sidestep threes now in rhythm. And what's
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really struck me is two areas ofgrowth for him. His passing in terms
of being able to read the courtfind his teammates, setting them up time
and time again. If he hadbetter teammates, he would add a triple
double last night too, because theyblew a couple of opportunities to score for.
And then the other avenue was reallyhis competitiveness on the glass. I
thought, even coming into the NBAand early in his career with the Spurs.
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He didn't maybe love rebounding as muchas the guy his size should,
and he was mixing it up alittle bit more, going toe to toe
with Anthony Davis. It was quitethe battle inside between those two players.
And I guess you expect progress froma guy who's basically a prodigy and still
only twenty years old. But I'mseeing tons of progress already over three or
four months in the NBA. BenGolliver of the Washington Post joining us here
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on the Saturday styleline on ninety seven, won the freak. We're gonna get
to the MAVs in a minute,I promised, but the Wemby Show last
night was so good that we reallyneeded to start there. Since Ben was
in the house, you brought upLebron. I was fortunate enough to be
at his very first game in Sacramento, and I remember writing that night against
a very good Sacramento team, thefirst game Lebron James played in the NBA.
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Even Kings Vets like Vlade Divots Pajastoyakovic, they thought Lebron was the best
player on the court last night.I'm curious what was the reaction in the
crowd to Wemby. We heard Lebrongushing about him. Was there a similar
feel where he kind of had everybodyawestruck? Well, Starry, you know,
the Spurs and the Lakers, notexactly, you know Fridly Cousins,
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right, I mean off in rivals, and in some cases he did rivals.
Webby got some real cheers before thegame started. I mean, and
I don't even know if it wasjust the Spurs fans. I think it
was like basketball fans in the building. When they announced his name, you
got some real cheers in the court. Lebron played a very smart court game
last night. He did not tryto really attack Wemby directly. He was
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settling into those like eight to twelvefourteen foot jumpers, and he just kind
of had it dialed in. He'sbeen coming off this ankle injury, so
he was pretty well rested, andthat was sort of how he unlocked the
Spurs game. So he had somegreat dynamic play back and forth between these
two teams. But you know,I noticed Lebron went over to Webby after
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the game to shake his head andoffer him a hug and say some words.
In his postgame press conference, hewent straight to the line about how
Webby has no ceiling as a player, and then about five minutes after the
game ended, it feel like Ifelt like Lebron was already posted a picture
of himself with Webby on his Instagram, which is like the ultimate side of
respect, right, So you hadall those things up. I think he's
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certainly won over his colleagues in theNBA, and I think one of the
reasons why really is his personality,even more so than his game. He
was asked, you know, abouthis five by five and how it stacked
up with other players who five byfives in the past, because that's a
pretty rare occurrence. And he wasalso asked about joining Michael Jordan as the
only players to have consecutive games withfive steals in five blocks, and Webby's
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immediate answer was, well, Iwonder if mj did it in wins or
losses, because you know, theSpurs lost both those games here this week.
And so he just has that rightattitude, that focus. He's not
about all the off court stuff.I mean, of course he wants to
be a big time endorser and kindof a brand guy, but he's,
you know, a very focused playerin terms of wins and losses and having
the right basketball values. And Ithink that's really what's won him over with
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his veteran colleagues, you know,just sort of like Lebron always played the
right way, always involved his teammateswhen he was young. I think Webby
just the way he carries himself kindof gets him that veteran respect because you
know, he's not trying to showup anybody on the court. He's just
doing his thing, and man,he's good at it. It is crazy
that minimum five points, rebounds,assists, blocks, and steals. It's
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only happened twenty two times in NBAhistory, and only one rookie's ever done
it, Jamal Tinsley. And Ithink I think a Keen did it six
times. So is Wemby going tobreak that record? He's already off to
a great start. You would haveto think yes. And it's just crazy
to think just how after those Summerleague games, how much bust talk there
(25:18):
was about Victor Webbin Yama, whichis now laughable. But look, we've
gone on about the Spurs too long. I'm gonna upset my audience here if
I don't ask Ben Golliver of theWashington post. What is his view from
afar of the brand new Dallas Mavericks. Talk to me, what do you
see out of the MAVs and whatdo you think their new ceiling is after
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acquiring a couple of wizards are aone wizard Daniel Gafford, and then acquiring
PJ. Washington as well. PJ. Washington was not a wizard, even
though Washington is in his name.Tell me what you see from the MAVs.
Well, I'll be honest, yourewine a month. I was starting
to get real nervous about the Mavericksbecause you know, to me, the
red flags are, what's Luca's workloadlook like? Is it going to get
(26:03):
too high? Is Tyrie going tobe on the court, because you got
to have him out there to havehis talent, but you know there's some
injury issues that kind of follow himeverywhere. So I was concerned about that.
And then obviously I was concerned aboutthe front court with Grant Williams,
you know, really struggling, notreally seeming to find the fit, and
you know it was a thin frontcourt coming into the season. You knew
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that could potentially be an issue.And it is amazing how all three of
those things pretty much have flipped hereover the last month. Luca's usage has
come down slightly because Tyrie's back.I think it's at a really healthy level,
and he is playing incredibly efficient basketballworking his way into that MVP conversation.
Having Kyrie back makes such a hugedifference. He hasn't been talked about.
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I don't think a ton on thenational scene. He wasn't really an
All Star conversations because he missed somuch time. But to me, it's
been kind of night and day whenyou know he's able to take some of
that workload from Luca, and thenlike you mentioned, you know, Daniel
plugging into that frontline, giving themsome options of you know, sometimes playing
two bigs at the same time asopposed to just leaning so heavily on Derek
(27:07):
Lively. It just to me,it fills out the rotation. It gives
them better lineup versatility, you know. The one thing I would look at,
you know, in terms of thiscurrent winning streak, there's a couple
of good wins in there, andI think the Phoenix win was probably the
signature win of the whole stretch,right just because of the bad blood between
those two teams. And how muchLuka just loves to kill Devin Booker in
company. Right. But you know, still I'm on guard a little bit
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because you had some softer wins inthat stretch, and I still want to
see more. But if you're talkingabout a team preparing itself for the playoffs
and potentially being able to lift itselfout of that play and mix so that
they can have a better matchup anda better chance to win that first round
series, I think that Dallas Maverickshave really taken care of great business here
over the last couple of weeks.And I'll tell you what I'm looking forward
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to. I'm crossing my finger.The first round matchup I want is I
want the rematch Clippers Mavericks in thefirst round so we can see Luca get
kind of a chance at some revengeafter they met in the playoffs a couple
of years ago. You might getit. You really might get that.
So I have not been an officialawards voter since twenty seventeen, when I
moved to the New York Times.Writers at the Times were not allowed to
(28:15):
vote for season ending awards in anysport, and I've upheld that since leaving
the Times. And starting my ownsub stack. I just I don't participate
in the voting. I think it'sbetter for me to just let it happen.
In comment, I can't remember.Does a similar policy exist at the
Post or are you still an awardsvoter? So I was an awards voter
(28:36):
at Sports Illustrated for years. Ihave not voted at the Post, but
I do publish my ballots, likemy fake ballot right now, So that's
what I say. Yeah, yeah, it's the weakest worker ound, right,
But we have to say policy atthe Post, and they're really serious
about it. And I get itbecause all these awards now are tied to
like fifty million dollars in bonuses andall this stuff, so it it does
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feel a little icky to be changingguy's bank accounts. But yeah, right
now, I think when I votedmost recently, I had Jokic won Shay
two, and I think the votehappened maybe two or three weeks ago,
so I had Luke I think fourth, But I think he's pushing hard for
that third spot. And I'm surethere's an argument down there at Texas being
(29:18):
made that maybe he should be two, or maybe he should even be one.
Yeah, It's interesting. I mean, Denver and OKC are for sure
going to crack fifty wins. Butif Denver's fourth in the West right now,
I mean that's low for what youwould expect for the defending champions.
I don't know how that would impactJokic's candidacy. So this might come down
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to Shay versus Luca. Yeah,I would hope not. I actually I
hope the voters give Jokic a good, long, hard look because I just
personally think he's the best player inthe sport right now, and I think
he's still got a gap there now. I think the biggest argument against Jokic
is he doesn't have to reach sixthyear single night, you know, and
he paces himself. He kind ofplays these games within the games. I
(30:04):
don't know if you saw it theother night against Washington. I mean when
he take like ten shots, buthe had a triple double and he was
probably plus twenty. I mean,he just does these ridiculous things that you
know, he doesn't have to maxout. Luca's workload, of course,
is much bigger, and a similardeal with Shay. I mean those guys
just have kind of bigger workloads interms of what they need to do to
make sure their team wins. ButI think Gilki is an incredible season.
(30:26):
I think he's a worthy MVP winner. You look back in hindsight, he
probably got snubbed last year, soI still believe he should be viewed as
the favorite. But I love thatLucas making a late charge here because you
look over the last three or fourseasons, He's had MVP caliber talent individually
every single one of those seasons.He's put up MVP caliber numbers every single
(30:47):
one of those seasons. But it'snot just about there, right, It's
about the team's success. And they'repulling himself out of that, you know,
that super parody pack in the WesternConference by by making this recent run.
And that's what it's gonna take tograb people's attention. And I do
think a lot of voters will bewilling to look past you know, Luca's
you know, prior reputation for defensebecause he's been playing harder on this on
(31:10):
this end this year. I thinkthat they would be willing to look past
his frustration with the officials just becausehis numbers are so obscene and his highs
are so high. I mean ofcourse, the seventy plus point game is
what people are going to look at. But I mean, he's a threat
these days to go off for fortyforty five seemingly fifty every single night,
(31:30):
and there's very few players, evenin his modern scoring boom, who have
that kind of ability like Luca.Well, that's one thing he's going to
have to fix. He's already ontwelve technical, so he only has four
to go before he starts missing gameson suspensions. He can his MVP candidacy
cannot afford that because that just opensthe door for criticism. All Right,
I kept you longer than I wassupposed to, but I greatly appreciate you
(31:52):
connecting with me on the morning inLA after a long game night covering Wemby
against the Lakers. Ben Dolliver ofthe Washington Post. Read all his work.
He's one of my favorite writers coveringthe league. And just tell everyone
about your podcast with Andrew Sharp wherepeople can find that. Oh it's nice
and easy, greatest of all Talkdot com. Go there to subscribe.
(32:14):
We do two episodes every week.We're breaking down All Star week and get
ready for this playoff push. Youknow, I really can't wait These next
two months coming up are gonna bepretty good. Stun. Thanks and Milk
for joining me. Pal, Greatto see you in Indy. Great to
have you on the show. Therehe goes everyone. Ben Dolliver from the
Washington Post, Stick around. Wegot Moxi Kleba from the MAVs coming up
(32:34):
next here on ninety seven. Wonthe Freak. It's the Saturday's Donline with
Mark Steining cards and collectibles on yourofficial homes Dallas Mavericks game a freak telling
you I'm falling in love with thisDallas team. We've been talking about the
Mavericks all morning long. They justthere's an electricity about them. I watched
them last night. There's a beliefthat they have right now. Luca is
(32:58):
playing harder defense, like he's settingmore of a tone. He's willing to
lay it on the line on thatend. I thought it was always a
bad example for his team, howlittle effort he gave it that end of
the four. He's playing harder onthat end. The chemistry between those two
guys looks great. And they wentout and they added pieces. They're deeper
and they're bigger in the middle,they're more athletic all the things they lack,
and then you've got this guy LukaDoncics who controls a game, so
(33:21):
a greater degree in Luka Doncics nobody. So I'm kind of falling in love
with the Mavericks right now, somaybe I would lean toward Kyrie. That
was ESPN's Tim Legler, my formerESPN teammate, speaking to Mike Greenberg,
another former ESPN teammate. They wereon Get Up. Played that clip because
it makes two weeks in a rownow that we've had some sound from Tim
(33:45):
Legler, of course a former Maverickin the early nineties, but there seems
to be so much local concern aboutthe bashing and skepticism that the MAVs face
from various national pundits. Tim Leglerhas been showering love on the MAVs here
for weeks now, and I'll justgive you a little inside baseball on the
(34:08):
show. I am working on connectingwith my old friend Tim Legler. We
used to when I started at ESPNor early in my ESPN days, was
when they I think it was mysecond season. There is when Bruce Bernstein,
the producer and one of my foremostbackers in all my ESPN years.
(34:31):
My fifteen years there. They startedthe Coast to Coast show on Tuesday nights.
Stephen A. Smith, Greg Anthony, Tim Legler, Buker and I
used to sneak in there sometimes.So I was many many years and many
many pounds ago for me. ButI am overdue to catch up with mister
Legler and I'm working on it becauseagain, he has some very interesting thoughts.
(34:53):
He is a believer in what thisteam is doing after acquiring PJ.
Washington and Daniel Gafford at the tradedeadline, and look again, the foremost
thing and he talked about it there. When Kyrie Irving is on the floor,
this team is just different. Luca'sworkload changes dramatically. His production doesn't
(35:14):
change, but just the usage rate, the load he has to shoulder,
it changes hugely, and you cansee what that does for Luca. And
that was really the primary concern Ihad when the Mavericks made the trade thirteen
months ago. Basically, Luka Doncicand Kyrie Irving are two of the best
(35:37):
players on Earth. Good players alwaysfigure out they were going to figure out
how to play off each other andform a duo. If Jalen Brunson can
function well playing next to Luka Doncic. Of course, Kyrie Irving is capable
of the same, but it's theavailability. It's just been many, many
(35:58):
seasons since Irving has gotten anywhere closeto sixty five games, and he's missed
twenty two games this season. Butwhen he is out there, the Mavericks
are dynamic offensively. We said itbefore they made the moves that nobody in
the West would want to see theseguys in the playoffs because dealing with Luca
and Kyrie it puts a huge strainon a defense. But now that the
(36:22):
Mavericks actually have some size to defendwith and rebound with. And again,
do you play Gafford or Lively orMoxie at the five or play Kliba as
the fore man next to those guys? And it just gives Jason Kidd a
lot of options. And that ismy long winded setup for our second guest
(36:44):
on the show. As mentioned afterThursday night's game against Phoenix, I had
a chance to visit with Moxi Klibain the Mavericks locker room. We're gonna
run that here momentarily, and itjust, you know, I started thinking
about it. Dwight Power has beenhere the longest, he's number one and
seniority, but Maxi Kleba's not faroff. This is year seven for him
(37:07):
as a Maverick, and that's wherewe start the conversation. Even he kind
of marvels at the longevity and therun he's been able to have in Dallas.
Let's listen now to my chat withnumber forty two. First of all,
very fortunate to be here in thisorganization. You know, the people
cheat you really well. I thinkwe have a great setup with everything.
(37:28):
And then of course, you know, time flies by h I almost can't
believe it myself. It's the seventhseason and here, you know, I'm
very fortunate to experience it and bewith one team this entire time. And
so much has changed since the teamthat went to the Western Conference finals,
and that was just a couple ofseasons ago. What do you think of
the team you guys have now andwhat your chances are in this crazy West.
(37:51):
I mean, obviously, we havea really good roster now right.
We have a lot of depth withLuka and Carie leading our offense. We
have so much potential and we havea lot of guys like you know,
PJH can attack out of like traps. We have tim you can shoot the
ball, just like a lot ofguys who can play. And now it's
just you know, figuring out theroles, seeing seeing how the minutes will
be distributed, how the matchups workout, and all that. You know.
Now it's more about, you know, figuring all this stuff out because
(38:15):
we have the talent, and that'syou know, the bigger deal, Like
to get everybody satisfied with the minutes, figure out how how things work together
as a team. That should bethe key focus until the end of the
season. Now, for half theseason, you guys were so small.
Now from your perspective, how doesit feel because you have Gafford here Lively's
back year back as a front courtplayer on this team, do you finally
(38:36):
feel like, hey, we canactually play big sometimes Yeah, it definitely
changes, you know, And nowwe have the option to play small and
big, and that's big time forus, you know, because we were
always struggling a little bit on therebounds, so obviously we're going to be
better on that. And also,you know, we have two amazing shop
bluggers that will protect everybody so that'sthat's a key thing. And you specifically
(38:57):
if you have to play small ballcenter or the four, does it matter
to you? At this point itdoesn't matter. I would say, It's
what I've been doing like the lastcouple of years, So nothing changes,
you know. I just got tolike be the best version of myself in
that role and accept what we haveto do. It might, you know,
one day they might put the fiveon me. So I'm involved in
the screening actions. Sometimes I'm justfacing the floor, but I'm just here
to, like, you know,a play harder, play defense, and
(39:17):
then make the right place. Howwould you explain what's gone on with the
toe? It sounds like it's poppedin and out multiple times. Just what
has that been like for you?Yeah, it was a little bit of
an issue. So the first timewhen it happened, it was out,
and then Dock had to put itback in place. And then the same
game it happened again, so wetook a little bit of rest, got
the swelling out, then I'd tryto play again. A week later.
It happened two more times, soit was totally unstable, and every time
(39:39):
it popped out, I couldn't dodefensive slides. And it's funny because it's
like the pinky toe, you know, and you would think it's not that
serious. But if you can't usethat, you can't push off and play
defense. And that's one of themain strength that I have. And it
really took a long time for thewhole capsule ligament structure to finally heal to
a point where I can push offagain. And we found the right solution
with like a plate in the shoeand all the all those things. But
(40:00):
now just got to like maintain andsee, you know, caps and injury
obviously is something that needs time thatwe don't really have. So I got
to do the best job in betweengames of resting it and getting the right
treatment. We're basically a year removednow from Kyrie's trade here when you analyze
it and just the way that heand Luke are playing off each other at
this point, what do you seenow compared to where it was a year
(40:22):
ago or even at the start ofthis. I think it's a big,
big change, you know. Therewas last year was some place where both
of them try to figure out whereto be and who takes the ball and
whatever. I think now they havegreat chemistry, the way they play,
including everybody else who's just accepting theirroles and playing with this. And you
know, I also like the waythey come out. You know, nobody's
like waiting for the other guy tobe aggressive. Both of them are aggressive
(40:44):
and that helps everybody else. SoI think the chemistry has been so much
better. Obviously you had way moretime video analyzing. They figure out how
to play with each other. Soit's it's night and day. Last thing,
how much are you guys looking atthe standings because you've one seven in
a row, but it's tough tomove up and gain ground in the west.
How much are you looking at thecompetition? I mean you do look
(41:05):
at it here and there, buta like overall, you still have to
focus just on the next game.We knew today was a big game,
you know, for the tiebreak,but now looking forward, you just got
to take every every game as itis and win it. You know,
we have a really good roster.We can't focus on the standings. If
we focus on winning, you know, that solves itself. Great to visit
(41:27):
after that Phoenix win with Maxikleba,who I hadn't spoken to for some time,
and look, this is a giddyteam. Miriam Addelson, of course,
one of the Mavericks new owners,alongside her son in law Patrick Dumont,
who is officially the MAVs governor.They were at the game Thursday night.
(41:47):
Court side. They hosted a postgameteam dinner for players after the game.
So eventful week for the MAVs upto the sixth seed. Now in
the way, they've got the tiebreakerover the Suns if they need it.
This show, yet again flies bytwo great guests, Kliba Ben Goliver from
(42:13):
the Washington Post. We did getone submission on the microphone chat back feature
on the iPhone app on the iHeartapp rather iHeartRadio app. A very good
question about the MAVs future needs atthe wing, but the questioner did not
(42:34):
leave their name to let me knowwho it is. So please next time
we'll take that question again, butjust let me know first name, last
initial, where you're calling in from. We want to get more of your
voices on this show. Maddie demandsit. Please make use of the microphone
(42:57):
icon on the iHeartRadio app. Thatis going to do it for this edition
of the Saturday Steinline. Again.The MAVs finishing up practice and will be
heading to Indianapolis. Four game tripthrough the Eastern Conference starts tomorrow night at
Indianapolis. Of course, Chuck Coopersteinwill have the call right here on ninety
(43:22):
seven to one the Freak. KevinGray will have the pregame show on ninety
seven to won the Freak, andI'll be back next Saturday with another edition
of the Saturday Steinline, presented asalways by my pals at Pannini Trading Cards and Collectibles
Welcome to the Saturday Steinline with MarkStein, presented by Benini Trading Cards and
Collectibles on ninety seven to one TheFreak, the official homes Well Dallas Nevericks
Games hosted by legendary NBIA reporter andpublisher of his substackt The Steinline. Here's
Mark Stein. Hey, everyone,welcome in to the Saturday Steinline presented by
(00:33):
Panini Trading Cards and Collectibles. Iam back from All Star weekend in Indianapolis.
If I am being completely and totallyhonest and transparent, I am a
touch distracted this morning, this afternoon, this Saturday lunchtime because Manchester City is
(00:57):
playing as we speak, and theTV in the studio does not work,
so I am trying to keep aneye on it on my phone while we
get ready to dive into an hourhere of NBA talk. The Mavericks are
practicing right now. They fly latertoday back to Indianapolis for Luka, Doncic
(01:18):
and Derek Lively. Second the firsttrip of the season to Indianapolis for everyone
else. Four game roadswing through theEast looms for your Mavericks Indiana, Cleveland,
Toronto, and Boston. The MAVs, though they're making this trip as
(01:40):
we speak, with a share withthe longest active winning streak in the NBA.
The MAVs won seven in a row. Truth to be told, the
All Star Break did not come ata good time for this team. They
won six of those seven in arow before the You do not want to
stop playing when you're hot like that. And then Thursday Night, Big Game.
(02:06):
Phoenix is here to tip off thestretch run. And remember it's not
the second half. Really two thirdsof the season gone by the time the
All Star Break hits. It wasthis season literally exactly two thirds of the
NBA schedule. There are twelve hundredand thirty regular season games every season in
(02:28):
the NBA, eight hundred twenty exactlytwo thirds played before the twenty twenty three
to twenty four season resume Thursday night, So Phoenix is here, season series
tiebreaker on the line. The MAVsabsolutely overwhelm the Suns in the second half,
get the win, keep pace withthe Mighty Celtics Boston. There are
(02:53):
still doubts and questions about Boston inthe playoffs, but they really the Celts
are assembling just a dream regular season. They're top five in offensive and defensive
efficiency. They've got a nightly averagepoint margin of a little bit over ten.
They're winning, you know, they'rewinning games by their average nightly scorer.
(03:16):
They're plus ten. Doesn't get muchbetter than that. But MAVs really
impressive to overtake the Suns in thesecond half. Kyrie Irving, he's been
back for seven games now, backfrom the thumb spring that sideline him for
six games. The MAVs have wonall seven since Kyrie Irving has returned.
(03:40):
Luka Doncic just had his league leadingeleventh forty point game. Dallas is ten
to one in those games. Andsuddenly, now Luka Doncic MVP chatter everywhere.
It's all over the place, justlike more and more you hear it.
(04:03):
Luca suddenly at the forefront of theMVP race with Denver's Nikola Yokich,
who, by the way, hasonly thrown up two triple doubles in Denver's
two wins since the Nuggets came backfrom All Star breaks, so Yokich ain't
going away. Yannis is still inthere. But Milwaukee's gonna have to have
(04:27):
a real surge here in the lastthird of the season, because they were
struggling three and seven under Doc Riversuntil going to Minnesota last night and getting
a very impressive victory. The Wolveshad ESPN in town all day, doing
literally all day coverage in the Wolvesthen lose at home to Milwaukee. Did
not work out as planned for theWolves, but it's amazing what happens when
(04:51):
you zoom from twenty six and twentythree to thirty three and twenty three.
Three things are going on to sparkall this For Dallas. The obvious one,
Luca and Kyrie are together again.They've only played forty five games together
(05:16):
in nearly thirteen months as teammates.Kyrie Irving remember traded to the Dallas Mavericks
on February sixth, twenty twenty three, so we're closing in on thirteen months.
But this season they're nineteen and tenas a duo when they're on the
floor together, compared to five andeleven last season. Key factor number two
(05:43):
the two trade newcomers PJ. Washingtonand Daniel Gafford have clearly given this team
an infusion of depth and size andphysicality all needed desperately. And then let's
not overlook number three. Maxi Klibahas not only returned from a toe injury
(06:06):
that's limited him to twenty games totalthis season. But he's looking like the
Maxi Kliba who had such a hugerole in the Mavericks Cinderella run to the
Western Conference Finals in twenty twenty two. And we will speak to Maxiklba later
in the show. I caught upwith him Thursday night in the locker room
(06:29):
after the win over Phoenix. Wewill play that sound shortly segment three.
So look, I would be exaggeratingif I sat here and tried to claim
that the vibes are immaculate. Theyare not. That cannot be said.
Not after a week where there werestories of Donnie Nelson's lawsuit against the Mavericks
(06:56):
potentially going to trial in December,a lot of dismay voiced by MAVs fans,
justifiable dismay from what I can gather, about some serious hikes in ticket
pricing starting next season that was justannounced. Over the past week or so,
(07:21):
there was the painful recounting for MAVsfans coming directly from Jalen Brunson.
Jalen Brunson went on All the Smokewith Matt Barnes, Steven Jackson, and
Jalen Brunson spelled out exactly how theMavericks repeatedly botched contract negotiations with a little
(07:45):
lefty in his final season in Dallas. The truth is, we already knew
all the details, but to hearit directly from Brunson himself a rundown.
In Jalen's own words, spelling outhow multiple times the Mavericks refused to give
(08:07):
him the most they could give himat that point, a four year,
fifty six million dollar contract extension,which would have been the most almighty bargain
in the NBA. The deal brunsit is on now is one of the
great bargains in the NBA, basicallyone hundred million in change over four years
with the Knicks. Not fun tohear all that. And then there were
(08:33):
the very discouraging scenes on Twitter thatcan't be ignored of two MAVs fans heckling
Kevin Durant in a way over theline manner before Thursday Night's big game with
Phoenix. I watched the whole exchangedfrom mid court my seat on press row.
Durant really handled it as classily,as expertly as humanly possible. He
(08:58):
even intervened to urge security not toeject the two fans, but look,
I feel you. You guys don'twant to dwell on that stuff. You
want the feel good stuff. Youdon't want to hear about disclaimers. So
back to it. The Mavericks.Your Mavericks have won seven in a row.
(09:20):
They're honestly generating more local excitement andexternal praise. I don't even remember
it. This lowed during the Cinderellarun to the Western Conference Finals with Brunson
in the spring of twenty twenty two. Ten games over five hundred, Now
thirty three and twenty three. Thisteam is on a forty eight win pace.
(09:43):
If they can keep winning and getthat thing to a fifty win pace.
If this team can win fifty games, Luca's MVP chances they rise exponentially
because Jokic is not going away andhe's going to be right up there.
Obviously, Joel Embiid will not beeligible. He will not play the Embiid
will not be able to play thesixty five games required now to be an
(10:07):
official MVP candidate. But Lucas gota real shot at this thing now.
He turns twenty five next week.There will be birthday celebrations for Luca here
on ninety seven won the freak.That is my prediction. Luca's birthday will
not go unnoticed on Wednesday. He'sgoing to win his first scoring title.
(10:30):
He's playing the best ball of hislife. He also looks as happy as
outwardly giddy as we've seen from himin some time. I mean when he
met the media Thursday night after thePhoenix game, I mean he could he
struggled to contain the giddiness. Heonly got a couple days off in Cabo
(10:50):
after the All Star Game. Hesaid it was enough. He lavished praise
on numerous teammates. You can seeit. He and Kyrie are legitimately in
a really good groove together right now. Something else we will discuss with Maxi
Kleiba in the third segment to gethis perspective as a teammate of these guys.
And again, the cost to makethe trades that Dallas made on deadline
(11:15):
day, The cost was significant.I don't want to gloss over that just
because the team is winning right now. Two first round picks for players who
might be your fourth and sixth bestplayers, or maybe even your fifth and
seventh best players. It's a lot. But when Luca is displeased. When
(11:37):
Luca is so clearly energized by whathe thinks this team is now capable of,
it makes a very strong case thatthe expenditure was worth it. That
case gets stronger, a lot stronger. Did you hear what Frank Vogel said
the other night the Suns coach anda very good friend of MAVs coach Jason
(12:01):
Kidd, The Sons and MAVs lockedin battle to try to nail down a
top six seed in this ridiculously deepWestern Conference. That's what you want.
You want to finish at least sixth, so you don't have to deal with
the plan because the playing looks likeit's going to be a monster. And
there was Vogel on Thursday night callingthe Mavericks a huge team, The Mavericks
(12:26):
of Dallas huge, says Frank Vogel, who would have dared to say such
a thing two weeks ago. Vogel'sfull quote, they're huge now with Gafford
and Lively having a big monster inthere like that makes them bigger on the
(12:46):
glass, and you know, anotherlobcatcher bigger defensively at the rim. So
yeah, he enhances what they dotalking about Gafford now joining Derek Lively the
second as true centers on this team. Frank Vogel loves defense. Frank Vogel
loves building a defense around multiple bigswho can protect the rim. Many of
(13:11):
the defensive principles that the MAVs use, especially during that Western Conference Finals run
in Kids' first season as head coach. Here they were taken from Vogel's Laker
playbook. Remember, Jason Kidds's previousstop before becoming Mavericks coach was serving as
Vogel's top assistant with the Lakers.So to hear vogels analysis very interesting,
(13:35):
very pertinent. Yet another subject We'regoing to talk with Maxi Kliba in that
third segment. Just all of asudden, now how the Mavericks can line
up up front. They can gowith Lively at the five, or Gafford
at the five, or Kliba atthe five, or Kliba at the four
beside one of the traditional centers.They suddenly have all kinds of optionality and
(14:01):
looks to throw at other teams thatthey didn't have before the deadline. Kid
said it Thursday night after the Phoenixwin. Quote, We're deep this is
the first time that the MAVs havebeen deep in a long time. The
immediate challenge, of course, isthat the West is also deep, d
(14:22):
eep deep. Forty eight wins lastseason, that's the MAVs current pace.
Forty eight wins is the MAVs currentpace last season. That got Sacramento to
the number three seed in the West. Forty eight wins abnormal. There were
(14:43):
only two fifty win teams in theWest last season, Denver and Memphis.
True aberration the NBA's thirty team era, it's about twenty years old. I
did the research last season. Theannual average basically over those first two decades
(15:07):
five to fifty win teams in theWest. That's what you expect in most
seasons, and more in line withthe West we're looking at right now,
Wolves, Thunder, the La Clippers, Denver, those teams are all comfortably
on fifty win paces. The Pelicanswere on a fifty win pace until they
(15:28):
lost last night at home to Miami. Dallas is now moving closer to that
territory. The Sun's just a shadeoff that pace. So just again,
just securing the top six seed inthis West to avoid a playing to avoid
(15:50):
the playing round, it's gonna bean achievement. I mean, look at
the teams that are hitting there rightnow. Phoenix with its superstar trio of
Kevin Durant, Devin Booker and BradleyBeal, although we do have to point
out that trio has only played intwenty two games together so far this season.
Then you've got Sacramento, last season'snumber three team in the West,
(16:12):
the Lakers with Lebron James and AnthonyDavis, and then Stephen Curry and his
Golden State Warriors. The West isstacked, and you know what, so
is this show. Ben Dolliver ofthe Washington Post, one of my favorite
scribes covering the league. He's gonnajoin us next. We're gonna talk more
(16:36):
about the Wild West, the MVPrace, what he thinks about the MAVs
from a little bit further removed fromthose of us who see them every day.
We have the chat coming in thethird segment with Moxi Kliba, another
jam packed to the Limit Maximum Klibaepisode of the Saturday Styinline. Stay with
(16:56):
us. Ben Golliver of the WashingtonPost joins me next. After the break
right here on ninety seven, wonthe Freak. You're listening to the Saturday
Steinline with Mark Stein, presented byBenini Trading Cards and Collectibles on your official
homes Dallas Mavericks Games ninety seven one, The Freaking The Saturday Steinline dribbles on
(17:21):
now, powered as always by mygood friends at Panini Trading Cards and Collectibles.
Had a great time with them attheir three story layer in Indianapolis at
All Star Weekend. We're going tothe guest line in just a moment,
but first a reminder. Text meif you want to connect with a show
via text two one four seven eightseven one nine seven to one or eight
(17:45):
one seven seven eight seven one nineseven one, use the Steinline text line
send us a message, or ifyou have the iHeartRadio app. Maddie is
ready to grab your record. Ikeep asking for these. I think we've
only got one in the queue andit was a good question, but no
(18:06):
name. I don't even know wholeft it for us. Click the microphone
on the ninety seven to one feedon the iHeartRadio app. Leave me a
message, record a question for meto answer on the show. Use the
microphone app. People, you makeyour voice heard on this show. All
right, let's do it. Let'sgo to the guest line. One of
my good pals is waiting patiently,the excellent national NBA writer for the Washington
(18:33):
Post, but more importantly, myformer neighbor, a former fellow citizen of
the NBA bubble at Walt Disney Worldin Orlando. In the summer of twenty
twenty, he wrote a tremendous bookabout the experience, bubble Ball bubble Ball.
If I could speak clearly, Iurge you to go out, pick
(18:53):
up a copy and read it.If you haven't already, Let's welcome in
my pal Olliver. Good morning,sir, mister syn How are you doing.
I'm out here in La just buzzingoff of Wemby last night against the
Lakers. I don't know if yousaw that game, but man alive,
he was something special. Kind offeels like the NBA's balance of power is
(19:14):
tilting from California down there to Texas. Between Wemby and Luke. I think
you guys are going to be runningthis league for a while coming. I
was going to ask you if youwere there, and then I thought,
of course he was there. Whatam I? No way he would miss
the Wemby show A five y five. Is he the He's my Rookie of
the Year. I have to say, like, I know, Chet is
(19:36):
playing for a really good Thunder team, but the Spurs are not a good
team. They're barely a team.They're so incomplete roster wise, and what
this guy is doing. He's noteven averaging thirty minutes a game and he's
averaging twenty ten and three. Imean, I am not an official voter,
but I would go Wemby for Rookieof the Year. What would you
(20:00):
in ninety nine times out of onehundred, I would lean towards the player
who is, you know, playingon a team that's near the top of
the staties that's contributing to wins.A player like Chet, where he's a
two way impact guy, so notonly is he a really quality, complimentary
scorer, but he's also you know, an all defense level guy on that
and and anchoring a really really gooddefense. I just think Wemby is the
(20:22):
one out of one hundred. He'sthe exception here because the skill level and
the talent gap between Wemby and Chetis massive. Even though Chen is gonna
be a perennial All Star player,I want to be surprised if Chet was
an All Star next year, andI thought, you know, he probably
deserved a little bit more talk asa potential snub this year. But Wemby
is just on a different planet.I mean, I think it's correct that
(20:45):
his nickname is the Alien. Ithink that was the best performance I've ever
seen from a rookie live in myentire life. I can't go all the
way back to like Lebron's rookie year. You know, I'm not a hyperbolegue
guy, but just the sheer volumeof winning plays he made defensively between the
steals, the blogs covering for histeammates. Of course, we know he
can score. He's hitting the sidestep threes now in rhythm. And what's
(21:08):
really struck me is two areas ofgrowth for him. His passing in terms
of being able to read the courtfind his teammates, setting them up time
and time again. If he hadbetter teammates, he would add a triple
double last night too, because theyblew a couple of opportunities to score for.
And then the other avenue was reallyhis competitiveness on the glass. I
thought, even coming into the NBAand early in his career with the Spurs.
(21:32):
He didn't maybe love rebounding as muchas the guy his size should,
and he was mixing it up alittle bit more, going toe to toe
with Anthony Davis. It was quitethe battle inside between those two players.
And I guess you expect progress froma guy who's basically a prodigy and still
only twenty years old. But I'mseeing tons of progress already over three or
four months in the NBA. BenGolliver of the Washington Post joining us here
(21:56):
on the Saturday styleline on ninety seven, won the freak. We're gonna get
to the MAVs in a minute,I promised, but the Wemby Show last
night was so good that we reallyneeded to start there. Since Ben was
in the house, you brought upLebron. I was fortunate enough to be
at his very first game in Sacramento, and I remember writing that night against
a very good Sacramento team, thefirst game Lebron James played in the NBA.
(22:21):
Even Kings Vets like Vlade Divots Pajastoyakovic, they thought Lebron was the best
player on the court last night.I'm curious what was the reaction in the
crowd to Wemby. We heard Lebrongushing about him. Was there a similar
feel where he kind of had everybodyawestruck? Well, Starry, you know,
the Spurs and the Lakers, notexactly, you know Fridly Cousins,
(22:45):
right, I mean off in rivals, and in some cases he did rivals.
Webby got some real cheers before thegame started. I mean, and
I don't even know if it wasjust the Spurs fans. I think it
was like basketball fans in the building. When they announced his name, you
got some real cheers in the court. Lebron played a very smart court game
last night. He did not tryto really attack Wemby directly. He was
(23:06):
settling into those like eight to twelvefourteen foot jumpers, and he just kind
of had it dialed in. He'sbeen coming off this ankle injury, so
he was pretty well rested, andthat was sort of how he unlocked the
Spurs game. So he had somegreat dynamic play back and forth between these
two teams. But you know,I noticed Lebron went over to Webby after
(23:26):
the game to shake his head andoffer him a hug and say some words.
In his postgame press conference, hewent straight to the line about how
Webby has no ceiling as a player, and then about five minutes after the
game ended, it feel like Ifelt like Lebron was already posted a picture
of himself with Webby on his Instagram, which is like the ultimate side of
respect, right, So you hadall those things up. I think he's
(23:48):
certainly won over his colleagues in theNBA, and I think one of the
reasons why really is his personality,even more so than his game. He
was asked, you know, abouthis five by five and how it stacked
up with other players who five byfives in the past, because that's a
pretty rare occurrence. And he wasalso asked about joining Michael Jordan as the
only players to have consecutive games withfive steals in five blocks, and Webby's
(24:10):
immediate answer was, well, Iwonder if mj did it in wins or
losses, because you know, theSpurs lost both those games here this week.
And so he just has that rightattitude, that focus. He's not
about all the off court stuff.I mean, of course he wants to
be a big time endorser and kindof a brand guy, but he's,
you know, a very focused playerin terms of wins and losses and having
the right basketball values. And Ithink that's really what's won him over with
(24:33):
his veteran colleagues, you know,just sort of like Lebron always played the
right way, always involved his teammateswhen he was young. I think Webby
just the way he carries himself kindof gets him that veteran respect because you
know, he's not trying to showup anybody on the court. He's just
doing his thing, and man,he's good at it. It is crazy
that minimum five points, rebounds,assists, blocks, and steals. It's
(24:56):
only happened twenty two times in NBAhistory, and only one rookie's ever done
it, Jamal Tinsley. And Ithink I think a Keen did it six
times. So is Wemby going tobreak that record? He's already off to
a great start. You would haveto think yes. And it's just crazy
to think just how after those Summerleague games, how much bust talk there
(25:18):
was about Victor Webbin Yama, whichis now laughable. But look, we've
gone on about the Spurs too long. I'm gonna upset my audience here if
I don't ask Ben Golliver of theWashington post. What is his view from
afar of the brand new Dallas Mavericks. Talk to me, what do you
see out of the MAVs and whatdo you think their new ceiling is after
(25:42):
acquiring a couple of wizards are aone wizard Daniel Gafford, and then acquiring
PJ. Washington as well. PJ. Washington was not a wizard, even
though Washington is in his name.Tell me what you see from the MAVs.
Well, I'll be honest, yourewine a month. I was starting
to get real nervous about the Mavericksbecause you know, to me, the
red flags are, what's Luca's workloadlook like? Is it going to get
(26:03):
too high? Is Tyrie going tobe on the court, because you got
to have him out there to havehis talent, but you know there's some
injury issues that kind of follow himeverywhere. So I was concerned about that.
And then obviously I was concerned aboutthe front court with Grant Williams,
you know, really struggling, notreally seeming to find the fit, and
you know it was a thin frontcourt coming into the season. You knew
(26:25):
that could potentially be an issue.And it is amazing how all three of
those things pretty much have flipped hereover the last month. Luca's usage has
come down slightly because Tyrie's back.I think it's at a really healthy level,
and he is playing incredibly efficient basketballworking his way into that MVP conversation.
Having Kyrie back makes such a hugedifference. He hasn't been talked about.
(26:47):
I don't think a ton on thenational scene. He wasn't really an
All Star conversations because he missed somuch time. But to me, it's
been kind of night and day whenyou know he's able to take some of
that workload from Luca, and thenlike you mentioned, you know, Daniel
plugging into that frontline, giving themsome options of you know, sometimes playing
two bigs at the same time asopposed to just leaning so heavily on Derek
(27:07):
Lively. It just to me,it fills out the rotation. It gives
them better lineup versatility, you know. The one thing I would look at,
you know, in terms of thiscurrent winning streak, there's a couple
of good wins in there, andI think the Phoenix win was probably the
signature win of the whole stretch,right just because of the bad blood between
those two teams. And how muchLuka just loves to kill Devin Booker in
company. Right. But you know, still I'm on guard a little bit
(27:30):
because you had some softer wins inthat stretch, and I still want to
see more. But if you're talkingabout a team preparing itself for the playoffs
and potentially being able to lift itselfout of that play and mix so that
they can have a better matchup anda better chance to win that first round
series, I think that Dallas Maverickshave really taken care of great business here
over the last couple of weeks.And I'll tell you what I'm looking forward
(27:52):
to. I'm crossing my finger.The first round matchup I want is I
want the rematch Clippers Mavericks in thefirst round so we can see Luca get
kind of a chance at some revengeafter they met in the playoffs a couple
of years ago. You might getit. You really might get that.
So I have not been an officialawards voter since twenty seventeen, when I
moved to the New York Times.Writers at the Times were not allowed to
(28:15):
vote for season ending awards in anysport, and I've upheld that since leaving
the Times. And starting my ownsub stack. I just I don't participate
in the voting. I think it'sbetter for me to just let it happen.
In comment, I can't remember.Does a similar policy exist at the
Post or are you still an awardsvoter? So I was an awards voter
(28:36):
at Sports Illustrated for years. Ihave not voted at the Post, but
I do publish my ballots, likemy fake ballot right now, So that's
what I say. Yeah, yeah, it's the weakest worker ound, right,
But we have to say policy atthe Post, and they're really serious
about it. And I get itbecause all these awards now are tied to
like fifty million dollars in bonuses andall this stuff, so it it does
(28:57):
feel a little icky to be changingguy's bank accounts. But yeah, right
now, I think when I votedmost recently, I had Jokic won Shay
two, and I think the votehappened maybe two or three weeks ago,
so I had Luke I think fourth, But I think he's pushing hard for
that third spot. And I'm surethere's an argument down there at Texas being
(29:18):
made that maybe he should be two, or maybe he should even be one.
Yeah, It's interesting. I mean, Denver and OKC are for sure
going to crack fifty wins. Butif Denver's fourth in the West right now,
I mean that's low for what youwould expect for the defending champions.
I don't know how that would impactJokic's candidacy. So this might come down
(29:41):
to Shay versus Luca. Yeah,I would hope not. I actually I
hope the voters give Jokic a good, long, hard look because I just
personally think he's the best player inthe sport right now, and I think
he's still got a gap there now. I think the biggest argument against Jokic
is he doesn't have to reach sixthyear single night, you know, and
he paces himself. He kind ofplays these games within the games. I
(30:04):
don't know if you saw it theother night against Washington. I mean when
he take like ten shots, buthe had a triple double and he was
probably plus twenty. I mean,he just does these ridiculous things that you
know, he doesn't have to maxout. Luca's workload, of course,
is much bigger, and a similardeal with Shay. I mean those guys
just have kind of bigger workloads interms of what they need to do to
make sure their team wins. ButI think Gilki is an incredible season.
(30:26):
I think he's a worthy MVP winner. You look back in hindsight, he
probably got snubbed last year, soI still believe he should be viewed as
the favorite. But I love thatLucas making a late charge here because you
look over the last three or fourseasons, He's had MVP caliber talent individually
every single one of those seasons.He's put up MVP caliber numbers every single
(30:47):
one of those seasons. But it'snot just about there, right, It's
about the team's success. And they'repulling himself out of that, you know,
that super parody pack in the WesternConference by by making this recent run.
And that's what it's gonna take tograb people's attention. And I do
think a lot of voters will bewilling to look past you know, Luca's
you know, prior reputation for defensebecause he's been playing harder on this on
(31:10):
this end this year. I thinkthat they would be willing to look past
his frustration with the officials just becausehis numbers are so obscene and his highs
are so high. I mean ofcourse, the seventy plus point game is
what people are going to look at. But I mean, he's a threat
these days to go off for fortyforty five seemingly fifty every single night,
(31:30):
and there's very few players, evenin his modern scoring boom, who have
that kind of ability like Luca.Well, that's one thing he's going to
have to fix. He's already ontwelve technical, so he only has four
to go before he starts missing gameson suspensions. He can his MVP candidacy
cannot afford that because that just opensthe door for criticism. All Right,
I kept you longer than I wassupposed to, but I greatly appreciate you
(31:52):
connecting with me on the morning inLA after a long game night covering Wemby
against the Lakers. Ben Dolliver ofthe Washington Post. Read all his work.
He's one of my favorite writers coveringthe league. And just tell everyone
about your podcast with Andrew Sharp wherepeople can find that. Oh it's nice
and easy, greatest of all Talkdot com. Go there to subscribe.
(32:14):
We do two episodes every week.We're breaking down All Star week and get
ready for this playoff push. Youknow, I really can't wait These next
two months coming up are gonna bepretty good. Stun. Thanks and Milk
for joining me. Pal, Greatto see you in Indy. Great to
have you on the show. Therehe goes everyone. Ben Dolliver from the
Washington Post, Stick around. Wegot Moxi Kleba from the MAVs coming up
(32:34):
next here on ninety seven. Wonthe Freak. It's the Saturday's Donline with
Mark Steining cards and collectibles on yourofficial homes Dallas Mavericks game a freak telling
you I'm falling in love with thisDallas team. We've been talking about the
Mavericks all morning long. They justthere's an electricity about them. I watched
them last night. There's a beliefthat they have right now. Luca is
(32:58):
playing harder defense, like he's settingmore of a tone. He's willing to
lay it on the line on thatend. I thought it was always a
bad example for his team, howlittle effort he gave it that end of
the four. He's playing harder onthat end. The chemistry between those two
guys looks great. And they wentout and they added pieces. They're deeper
and they're bigger in the middle,they're more athletic all the things they lack,
and then you've got this guy LukaDoncics who controls a game, so
(33:21):
a greater degree in Luka Doncics nobody. So I'm kind of falling in love
with the Mavericks right now, somaybe I would lean toward Kyrie. That
was ESPN's Tim Legler, my formerESPN teammate, speaking to Mike Greenberg,
another former ESPN teammate. They wereon Get Up. Played that clip because
it makes two weeks in a rownow that we've had some sound from Tim
(33:45):
Legler, of course a former Maverickin the early nineties, but there seems
to be so much local concern aboutthe bashing and skepticism that the MAVs face
from various national pundits. Tim Leglerhas been showering love on the MAVs here
for weeks now, and I'll justgive you a little inside baseball on the
(34:08):
show. I am working on connectingwith my old friend Tim Legler. We
used to when I started at ESPNor early in my ESPN days, was
when they I think it was mysecond season. There is when Bruce Bernstein,
the producer and one of my foremostbackers in all my ESPN years.
(34:31):
My fifteen years there. They startedthe Coast to Coast show on Tuesday nights.
Stephen A. Smith, Greg Anthony, Tim Legler, Buker and I
used to sneak in there sometimes.So I was many many years and many
many pounds ago for me. ButI am overdue to catch up with mister
Legler and I'm working on it becauseagain, he has some very interesting thoughts.
(34:53):
He is a believer in what thisteam is doing after acquiring PJ.
Washington and Daniel Gafford at the tradedeadline, and look again, the foremost
thing and he talked about it there. When Kyrie Irving is on the floor,
this team is just different. Luca'sworkload changes dramatically. His production doesn't
(35:14):
change, but just the usage rate, the load he has to shoulder,
it changes hugely, and you cansee what that does for Luca. And
that was really the primary concern Ihad when the Mavericks made the trade thirteen
months ago. Basically, Luka Doncicand Kyrie Irving are two of the best
(35:37):
players on Earth. Good players alwaysfigure out they were going to figure out
how to play off each other andform a duo. If Jalen Brunson can
function well playing next to Luka Doncic. Of course, Kyrie Irving is capable
of the same, but it's theavailability. It's just been many, many
(35:58):
seasons since Irving has gotten anywhere closeto sixty five games, and he's missed
twenty two games this season. Butwhen he is out there, the Mavericks
are dynamic offensively. We said itbefore they made the moves that nobody in
the West would want to see theseguys in the playoffs because dealing with Luca
and Kyrie it puts a huge strainon a defense. But now that the
(36:22):
Mavericks actually have some size to defendwith and rebound with. And again,
do you play Gafford or Lively orMoxie at the five or play Kliba as
the fore man next to those guys? And it just gives Jason Kidd a
lot of options. And that ismy long winded setup for our second guest
(36:44):
on the show. As mentioned afterThursday night's game against Phoenix, I had
a chance to visit with Moxi Klibain the Mavericks locker room. We're gonna
run that here momentarily, and itjust, you know, I started thinking
about it. Dwight Power has beenhere the longest, he's number one and
seniority, but Maxi Kleba's not faroff. This is year seven for him
(37:07):
as a Maverick, and that's wherewe start the conversation. Even he kind
of marvels at the longevity and therun he's been able to have in Dallas.
Let's listen now to my chat withnumber forty two. First of all,
very fortunate to be here in thisorganization. You know, the people
cheat you really well. I thinkwe have a great setup with everything.
(37:28):
And then of course, you know, time flies by h I almost can't
believe it myself. It's the seventhseason and here, you know, I'm
very fortunate to experience it and bewith one team this entire time. And
so much has changed since the teamthat went to the Western Conference finals,
and that was just a couple ofseasons ago. What do you think of
the team you guys have now andwhat your chances are in this crazy West.
(37:51):
I mean, obviously, we havea really good roster now right.
We have a lot of depth withLuka and Carie leading our offense. We
have so much potential and we havea lot of guys like you know,
PJH can attack out of like traps. We have tim you can shoot the
ball, just like a lot ofguys who can play. And now it's
just you know, figuring out theroles, seeing seeing how the minutes will
be distributed, how the matchups workout, and all that. You know.
Now it's more about, you know, figuring all this stuff out because
(38:15):
we have the talent, and that'syou know, the bigger deal, Like
to get everybody satisfied with the minutes, figure out how how things work together
as a team. That should bethe key focus until the end of the
season. Now, for half theseason, you guys were so small.
Now from your perspective, how doesit feel because you have Gafford here Lively's
back year back as a front courtplayer on this team, do you finally
(38:36):
feel like, hey, we canactually play big sometimes Yeah, it definitely
changes, you know, And nowwe have the option to play small and
big, and that's big time forus, you know, because we were
always struggling a little bit on therebounds, so obviously we're going to be
better on that. And also,you know, we have two amazing shop
bluggers that will protect everybody so that'sthat's a key thing. And you specifically
(38:57):
if you have to play small ballcenter or the four, does it matter
to you? At this point itdoesn't matter. I would say, It's
what I've been doing like the lastcouple of years, So nothing changes,
you know. I just got tolike be the best version of myself in
that role and accept what we haveto do. It might, you know,
one day they might put the fiveon me. So I'm involved in
the screening actions. Sometimes I'm justfacing the floor, but I'm just here
to, like, you know,a play harder, play defense, and
(39:17):
then make the right place. Howwould you explain what's gone on with the
toe? It sounds like it's poppedin and out multiple times. Just what
has that been like for you?Yeah, it was a little bit of
an issue. So the first timewhen it happened, it was out,
and then Dock had to put itback in place. And then the same
game it happened again, so wetook a little bit of rest, got
the swelling out, then I'd tryto play again. A week later.
It happened two more times, soit was totally unstable, and every time
(39:39):
it popped out, I couldn't dodefensive slides. And it's funny because it's
like the pinky toe, you know, and you would think it's not that
serious. But if you can't usethat, you can't push off and play
defense. And that's one of themain strength that I have. And it
really took a long time for thewhole capsule ligament structure to finally heal to
a point where I can push offagain. And we found the right solution
with like a plate in the shoeand all the all those things. But
(40:00):
now just got to like maintain andsee, you know, caps and injury
obviously is something that needs time thatwe don't really have. So I got
to do the best job in betweengames of resting it and getting the right
treatment. We're basically a year removednow from Kyrie's trade here when you analyze
it and just the way that heand Luke are playing off each other at
this point, what do you seenow compared to where it was a year
(40:22):
ago or even at the start ofthis. I think it's a big,
big change, you know. Therewas last year was some place where both
of them try to figure out whereto be and who takes the ball and
whatever. I think now they havegreat chemistry, the way they play,
including everybody else who's just accepting theirroles and playing with this. And you
know, I also like the waythey come out. You know, nobody's
like waiting for the other guy tobe aggressive. Both of them are aggressive
(40:44):
and that helps everybody else. SoI think the chemistry has been so much
better. Obviously you had way moretime video analyzing. They figure out how
to play with each other. Soit's it's night and day. Last thing,
how much are you guys looking atthe standings because you've one seven in
a row, but it's tough tomove up and gain ground in the west.
How much are you looking at thecompetition? I mean you do look
(41:05):
at it here and there, buta like overall, you still have to
focus just on the next game.We knew today was a big game,
you know, for the tiebreak,but now looking forward, you just got
to take every every game as itis and win it. You know,
we have a really good roster.We can't focus on the standings. If
we focus on winning, you know, that solves itself. Great to visit
(41:27):
after that Phoenix win with Maxikleba,who I hadn't spoken to for some time,
and look, this is a giddyteam. Miriam Addelson, of course,
one of the Mavericks new owners,alongside her son in law Patrick Dumont,
who is officially the MAVs governor.They were at the game Thursday night.
(41:47):
Court side. They hosted a postgameteam dinner for players after the game.
So eventful week for the MAVs upto the sixth seed. Now in
the way, they've got the tiebreakerover the Suns if they need it.
This show, yet again flies bytwo great guests, Kliba Ben Goliver from
(42:13):
the Washington Post. We did getone submission on the microphone chat back feature
on the iPhone app on the iHeartapp rather iHeartRadio app. A very good
question about the MAVs future needs atthe wing, but the questioner did not
(42:34):
leave their name to let me knowwho it is. So please next time
we'll take that question again, butjust let me know first name, last
initial, where you're calling in from. We want to get more of your
voices on this show. Maddie demandsit. Please make use of the microphone
(42:57):
icon on the iHeartRadio app. Thatis going to do it for this edition
of the Saturday Steinline. Again.The MAVs finishing up practice and will be
heading to Indianapolis. Four game tripthrough the Eastern Conference starts tomorrow night at
Indianapolis. Of course, Chuck Coopersteinwill have the call right here on ninety
(43:22):
seven to one the Freak. KevinGray will have the pregame show on ninety
seven to won the Freak, andI'll be back next Saturday with another edition
of the Saturday Steinline, presented asalways by my pals at Pannini Trading Cards and Collectibles
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