10-25-25 The Weekend Hour 1: The NBA Betting Scandal and American Culture

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The night. Michael Brown joins me here, the former FEMA
director talk.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Show host Michael Brown.

Speaker 3 (00:04):
Brownie, no, Brownie, You're doing a heck of a job
the Weekend with Michael Brown broadcasting life from Denver, Colorado.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
You've tuned into the Weekend with Michael Brown. Glad to
have you with the program today. A couple of rules
of engagement. If you want to send me a text message,
that's the way to tell me something or ask me anything.
TMA tell me anything or AMA, ask me anything. On
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and then go follow me on X at Michael Brown

(00:31):
USA at Michael Brown USA. Now, before you start clicking
and changing the channel, particularly those who live in Colorado
or you listen to Friday's program, we're gonna take a
little different tack today, but we are going to talk
about the betting scandal. Yeah, it's not too bad. I

(00:52):
heard a couple of clicks, but not too many, because
I think this is a great, get horrible reflect on
American culture. And it's also how we you know, between
artificial intelligence, between fake news, between everything that we deal
with in social media, between CGI and movies, between everything

(01:16):
you can possibly imagine. We live in a world where
we don't know what's real and what's not real. For example,
do you really think I'm live today? Do you really
think I haven't pre recorded this and I'm out, you know,
gallivanting around somewhere. You never know. Now I am live today.
So there's that. But I really think that in many

(01:38):
ways we should not be shocked by this scandal, and
we shouldn't be surprised either when someone like Stephen A.
Smith comes out and says that this massive NBA gambling
bus is Trump's revenge. Oh good, so now we got
Donald Trump involved in it. Everything that goes wrong in
the world is apparently Donald Trump's fault, and everything they

(02:02):
go goes right in the world. However you measure that,
I guess, because I'm not really sure anymore how you
measure right from wrong? Actually I am, But why is
it that somehow you got to draw Donald Trump into this.
It's fascinating to me, and I'm going to make it
fascinating to you because I really want you to stop

(02:23):
and think about this for a moment. So the October
shock for the NBA began like any any sort of
courtroom scene you might see. Here are federal agents, and
these federal agents, you know, are you know, they're all
walking to the microphone. They got the FBI flag, and
they've got you know, maybe a New York state flag.

(02:44):
They got the US flag, and they got you know,
everything behind them, and they're and they're all lined up
because everybody wants to be in the camera shot. And
so they announced these coordinated arrests a head coach, an
active player among nearly three dozen defendants. And the allegations
that kind of intertwine two strands of string of vice

(03:08):
into one rope. Illegal sports betting that traded on insider information,
and high stakes poker games rigged for guaranteed loss. Now
let's go to the trading on insider information for just
a second, because I want to add a parenthetical here
and then this will help you understand why I think

(03:29):
this is important. Everyone is fast, I shouldn't say everyone.
A lot of people are fascinated by this, And if
you're an NBA sports fan, you're either not surprised or
you're shocked. Now I'm not really an NBA fan. I
kind of like college basketball better than I do the

(03:49):
National Basketball Association. But besides, that doesn't make any difference.
When I say they traded on insider information. Does that
remind you of anything else?

Speaker 3 (04:02):
Does it?

Speaker 1 (04:04):
We have a Virginia governor's race, for example, where a
former member of Congress now running to be the Democrat
governor of Virginia earned seven million dollars gets reported on
her financial statements, and her opponent, Winsome Sears, who's the
current lieutenant governor of black female is asking this white woman,

(04:24):
as now have many people in the cabal where the
seven million dollars come from? And she can't answer, She
won't answer, she can't answer both. Now we have Nancy
Pelosi and her husband. Of course she claims that, oh,
I don't have anything to do with those decisions. You
don't think there's pillow talk going between Nancy Pelosi and
her husband about you know, hey, you know there's this

(04:46):
big piece of legislation coming up, and it's going to
affect x y Z Corporation because we're either going to
take away their contracts or we're going to do something
in XYZ Corporation is going to be in the perfect
place to do this, and so her husband Paul. He says, hmmm,
maybe I should go buy some shares of stocking XYZ
Corporation and low and bowls. He does, and he buys

(05:06):
it at a dollar share, and then I don't know,
six months later, the legislation gets passed. Then suddenly XYZ
Corporation places a bid on to do whatever that bit
that legislation provided for, and suddenly his a dollar share
has now gone to ten dollars a share. Insider trading.
There's corruption everywhere, absolutely everywhere. But why is it that

(05:33):
people are in, Oh, my god, the NBA. But there's
a governor, there's a candidate running for governor of Virginia,
and oh, you can't explain seven million dollars. Now, I
don't know, maybe maybe you're different than me, But if
seven million dollars showed up in my checking account or
my brokerage account tomorrow, I would be like, oh, it

(05:55):
was a good day. No, of course I wouldn't. I
would be like, where the hell did that come from?
I would know precisely where seven million dollars came from.
And if you can't account for seven million dollars or
you're not shocked by the NBA trading, uh, insider trading
em betting scandal. Then I don't think you're really understanding

(06:18):
that this is really another example of the denigration of
our culture. Now, the names make headlines because those names
violate a social contract. Just bear with me here, a
true social contract. A coach entrusted to compete and to
keep team confidences. Players entrusted to play hard and fairly

(06:43):
so that when you turn on the you know, ESPN
or wherever you're watching a game. And right now we
you know who knows, we've already had a baseball scandal.
I know none of us lived through that where you
know that was too long ago, but well, I guess not.
We had Pete Rose before that, we had the big scandal.
All these names make headlines because they violate that social contract.

(07:09):
And when that social contract is that when you're watching
a game, you expect it to be based upon competition.
Let's take it to the transgenderism issue. When you're watching
what you think is women's soccer or women's swim team
or women's whatever, you tend to think that, oh, the

(07:31):
people that are out there that I see playing on
the field or swimming in the lanes, or playing on
the court, whatever, it is that well that they have
that they're female, that they're biological females, but now you
don't know whether they are or not. And many of
them get and I believe, I believe this very sincerely,

(07:54):
that if you are a transgender woman, you're transitioning from
a man to a woman, you have a physiological and
a biological advantage over the females that are generally female
that are competing in that same sport. So it's almost
like nothing is real anymore. And another reason is these
indictments matter because they expose an institutional vulnerability, and not

(08:20):
a single one off. This isn't just like, oh, we
just happened to catch some guys, you know, doing some
insider dealing and you know, throwing some games or cheating
at poker or whatever. No, this is an institutional vulnerability.
In twenty twenty five, the National Basketball Association sits at

(08:43):
the very epicenter of this gambling ecosystem that has developed
that you see all the time in you see it
on television for all the different sports betting books, sports
betting apps, and you hear it on radio incessantly. So
the NBA is at the very center of that. And

(09:05):
then You've got on one side something and on the
other side you got something else. What is that That's
coming up? Next? Is the Weekend with Michael Brown. Text
any question or comment to three three one zero three,
keyword Micha or Michael. Follow me on next at Michael
Brown USA. I'll be right back. Hey, it's the Weekend

(09:28):
with Michael Brown. Excuse me. I'm trying to make a
bet here. I'm betting. I'm betting them whether or not
I make it through the rest of the program or not.
Stephen A. Smith somehow is convinced that this is Trump's revenge.
I'm not quite sure.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
That anybody that has been around him, anybody that has
talked to him, anybody that has seen his reactions from
the sports leagues and the positions that people have taken,
they are not surprised at what's going on today. I'm
watching a press conference with the director of the FBI.
Tell me when we've seen that, We've seen people, we've

(10:07):
seen accusations before, We've seen athletes get in trouble with
the law before. You don't see the director of the
FBI having.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
A Well, mister Smith, I hate to tell you, but
when you've got the mafia when you have the mob involved,
I would be shocked if I didn't see the director
of the FBI. Man, you really are some kind of
dumbass press conference.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's not coincidental, it's not an accident. It's a statement,
and it's a warning that Moore is coming.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, So what are we now living in a society
where we're upset if Trump or the FBI prosecutes you know,
a sacred cow like the NBA, that somehow that's Trump's fault. Well,
that's Trump's revenge. I just I don't get it. I

(11:03):
really don't get it. The US attorney for the stron
District of New York. My message to the defendants who've
been rounded up today is this, your winning streak has ended.
Your luck has run out.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Violating the law is a losing proposition.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
And you can bet on that. It was pretty ironic,
wasn't it, And you can bet on that. Ah. So
what's going on here? Let's do the two sides thing.
So on one side, the NBA's competitive structure makes really

(11:41):
subtle manipulation extraordinarily easy. Then on the other side, all
these mobile sports books and apps led by things you
groups like DraftKings or fan duel. They have multiplied markets
into thousands of prop bets that price every rebound, ucage, rade,

(12:03):
first quarter shot attempts, who's the first to fart, who's
the first to do this? You can bet on anything.
So where structure and markets meet, it's very simple economics
incentives get even sharper. So these recent arrests they didn't

(12:23):
create that intersection. They revealed that. So first thing about
the facts that framed the argument. Authorities say that Miami
Heat guard Terry Rozier a year old, a thirty year
old veteran who's in his I think it's it his
ninth season. He's not. Again, I dig this stuff up
because I really don't know these people. He's known for

(12:46):
speed and scoring streaks since he entered the league in
twenty fifteen. He was a first round pick by Boston.
Signaled that he would play limited minutes in a March game,
then did exactly that, logging roughly a third of his
typical floor time and falling well below recent averages. Now,

(13:07):
the result was not a throne game his team won.
The result was a cascade of cashable wagers on unders
for points, assists, and minutes played along with correlated props
that hinge on usage. So the indictment attributes more than
two hundred thousand dollars in winning bets to the tip

(13:30):
and the underperformance. That's the subtle nature of what's going
on here. Now we'll get to minute how much heat
benefits from that. Then, when you have a multi million
dollar contract and you do this and you're winning, you know,
a couple hundred thousand dollars or something, it really shows
that you live in a bubble where you don't believe

(13:53):
there are any consequences for your actions. In fact, I
would extract lay that out most of American society because
we look at our leaders and there's no accountability. Go
back to the seven million dollars of the governor running
for the canon to running for governor of Virginia. Go
back to Nancy and Paul Pelosi. Go back to anybody

(14:16):
who went to Congress as just a working staff and
comes out a multimillionaire on one hundred and eighty four
thousand dollars a year salary. How does that happen? I mean,
at that rate right now, I have to be worth
I don't know a billion dollars, but I'm not now.
In parallel to what I just described, prosecutors alleged that

(14:40):
Portland Trailblazers head coach Chauncey Billups looks around oh, a
graduate of right here in Denver High School, here in Denver.
He's forty eight years old, a former Finals MVP, five
time All Star, retired I think about ten years ago,
played for seventeen some years. He took over Portland's mention

(15:01):
in twenty twenty one, took part in rigged Polker Rock operations,
supplied confidential team information that sharpened those betting edges at
all the former players and organized crime intermediaries, and the
picture stops looking like some sort of prank and it
really looks like market abuse now. The league responded by

(15:23):
removing Billups from Roseer from team activities, by emphasizing the
primacy of competitive integrity. Really, where were you? Where you know?
Where's the commission? Ben? H where's that weird looking commission Ben?
And by hinting that lifetime bands remain available if the
allegations are proven, which I find interesting because well, are

(15:48):
we are we going to see that somebody? Somebody said
to me earlier that Pete Rose versus Chauncey Billups and
the Hall of Fame status. Will the behavior be judged equally?
I think that's a great question. Will it be judged equally?

(16:09):
I don't know. Oh yeah, by the way, I keep saying, Virginia,
it's the new Jersey candidate. I'm sorry. I think the
better question about competitive integrity lifetime bans all of that.
I think the better question is whether this is a
symptom of a system designed to reward exactly the kind
of behavior that we're now seeing. And I think that's

(16:32):
why this scandal is so important. I at one time
I had a sponsor on my local show, and I
don't remember I don't even remember which of the betting
sports books that it was, but I just remember thinking
at the time, and I dropped them. I went to

(16:55):
my folks and just said, you know what, I just
this is not my thing. I don't use the I
don't like it. I drop it. I don't want to
endorse them anymore. But why is basketball and the NBA
in particular so fragile under gambling pressure? I think it's
basic math. Five players share the floor for each team

(17:16):
at any given time. Rotation depth rarely exceeds eight to
ten men who matter. A single player accounts for almost
twenty percent of the on court personnel and often a
much larger larger slice of the actual shot attempts or
on ball time. Small numbers. Anytime you got small numbers,
that magnifies influence. If a high useage guard decides to

(17:40):
shoot two fewer times per quarter, if a coach quietly
caps minutes, the point spread and multiple player props begin
to move again. Basic math. This system makes it even
more beneficial and profitable. So Weekend with Michael Brown, let
me explain how it contrasts with football. Coming up next tonight,

(18:11):
Michael Brown joins me here, the former FEMA director of.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Talk show host Michael Brown.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Brownie, No, Brownie, You're doing a heck of a job
the Weekend with Michael Brown.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Hey, so we came with Michael Brown. Glad to have
you with me. Appreciate you tuning in. You know the
text lines always open three three, one zero three keyword
Mike or Michael. Go follow me on X at Michael
Brown USA. So you have the compactness, You've got five
players and then a few of those dominate. But then

(18:41):
think about the refereeing of an NBA game three officials
that can control the pace, contact the whistles, leverage over
free throws, and foul trouble, so their judgment dominates the game.
So if you have a series of marginal block calls
or swallowed whistles and drives that can swing tunnels and
spreads by very small but repeatable increments, and it doesn't

(19:06):
look like anything unusual is happening. And this isn't new.
The infamous referee scandal from at least a generation to
go centered on former NBA official Tim Donnie, who bet
on games he officiated between two thousand and five and
two thousand and seven while he was doing his manipulated

(19:28):
foul calls and the pace to influence the point spreads.
That should teach a simple lesson. In a high frequency
scoring environment, even mild officiating bias can be monetized, and
that's exactly what these sports books do now. Monitoring has
obviously improved since his conviction for conspiracy and wirefraud, but

(19:53):
human judgment is not a bug in basketball. It's actually
a feature, and that feature is explos foible when money
looks for scenes. Scoring frequency compounds the problem. An NBA
game features two hundred plus combined points on average, dozens
of made shots and a near continuous exchange of possessions.

(20:15):
So that kind of volume, that level of volume provides
statistical cover. If a player misses two free throws or
gives up when we close out that eels a corner three,
those events disappear into a sea of ordinary plays. High
frequency processes, which is what you think about, just visualizing
your mind for a moment a college or professional, that's

(20:39):
many difference. Imagine the frequency of all the processes going
on in that game. High frequency processes let very small
distortions move outcomes in the overall aggregate. Now let's go
to football for a second. Because in football, a single
absurd penalty just say erases a touchdown lights up the

(21:03):
screen and the microphone of every single commentator. In basketball,
the effect is negligible, if even noticeable. Those are structural features.
Those are absolute structural features. Now, when a player can

(21:24):
cash an under by sitting in an extra four minutes,
or by deferring two passes that he would otherwise ordinarily make,
or by closing out half a step later on the
defensive glass, the threshold to manipulate and for people to
understand that, oh, we know this is going to happen,

(21:45):
or we're watching a pattern. I mean, this really is
Think about I owned a startup company one time that
did pattern recognition, and I think about now that I
watch this unfolding, Wow, I could take that software apply
it to basketball games and start detecting these kinds of patterns.

(22:09):
And if there were a way to use that software
to detect those patterns in real time as bets are
being made, which you can apparently do with these books, Wow,
you really could use that pattern recognition to start cashing
in on it. And if the patterns are being implemented

(22:33):
on purpose or being distorted on purpose, either way, again
you've got a great way that you can monetize it.
Now there is a rejoinder, there's absolutely a rejoinder that
legal betting also increases the monitoring. And the more I

(22:55):
thought about that since yesterday and started going onto different
platforms and asking the questions and looking around and reading
some of the other stories about this, that's right, but
only to a point. Integrity firm scan betting markets for
aberrational patterns, and leagues share data flags and they train

(23:16):
their players on these prohibitions. But all of the surveillance,
all of this data surveillance in the pattern recognition that
all operates downstream, that all operates pretty much after the fact.
So a spike in under bets on a backup center's
rebounds might flag a problem, but only after the fact.

(23:39):
So the monitoring that the NBA wants to rejoinder with
and say well, this is what we're doing doesn't really
eliminate the opportunity. It prices it. It puts a price
on it and then chases it. So a rational cheater
responds by moving volume across different books, by choosing quieter
games or markets, and then by slice NBAHS thin enough

(24:00):
to evade these modelings. The move from win lost wagers
to prop saturated menus, which is, you know, it took
me forever to fully understand all the different kinds of
prop bets that you can make, and that's what these
books are saturated with. That offers the detection landscape get

(24:22):
more places to hide. And these recent criminal cases really
ought to be read alongside a prior disciplinary benchmark. The
lifetime ban of a reserved big man in twenty twenty
four for sharing health information and manipulating his own minutes
to help associate to help associates profit. That case already

(24:45):
showed how little it takes to win prop bets when
one participant controls usson effort. Now, these twenty twenty five
indictments they scale the problem upward by adding in a
head coach and by tying the scheme to organized crime infrastructure,
with the bankroll of the accounts and the muscle to

(25:06):
exploit all these fine edges repeatedly. If one single player's
minutes could turn a few hundred thousand dollars, think about
what a well financed ring operating across a lot of
games and a lot of markets can move many multiples
of that. So I think the most unsettling feature is

(25:26):
not necessarily the celebrity or the names involved. It is
the system, And it is the ability of the system
to create repeatability, to create patterns, and that then those
in the know can exploit those patterns. And because all

(25:46):
of the data is looked at downstream, one and done,
two and done, three and done, and you've already cashed
out and moved on. So the architecture of risk is clear.
This game grants the insiders a disproportionate leverage. Mobile betting

(26:08):
apps reward the granular insider shaped knowledge, and then you
put those together you form kind of a market structure
with classic adverse selection. Books are writing prices against the public,
but the public can't observe in real time. We know
whether a guard woke up with a sore hamstring, whether
a coach intends to cap minutes on the second night

(26:29):
of a back to back, or whether a wing is
decided to avoid the paint to reduce the contact. But
the team knows, the player knows, even friends might know.
And then if that information leaks, even indirectly, the market tilts.
So if the player the coach acts on that, the
market collapses into a tax that's basically on the uninformed.

(26:55):
Then what role you have to ask do the book
at the betting apps? What did they play well? They
popularized the product and they created the interface, and so
they actually probably deserve some credit for bringing wagering into
the open where the audits now exist. But then they

(27:17):
also normalized the high resolution pricing of human behavior. The
elegance of a slider for rebounds, the thrill of a
live in game over under for a bench unit. Those
features gamify micro outcomes, and then when you have hundreds

(27:38):
of lines exist upon which you can bet everyone with
modest limits. A ring can spread risk and they can
hide their intent. And when the dominant apps mark the
same game parlays that stitch multiple props into a single narrative,
the demand for small edges grows. The familiar defense is

(27:59):
that these cubs work with leagues to spot these anomalies,
to spot these patterns, and that they limit batters and
void markets where they find the irregularities and they are detected.
And those are prudent steps, but they're not structural fixes.
They're not structural remedies. What follows for policy and what

(28:25):
happens next. I think that fans deserve realism. I know
legal betting is here, and while I think that betting,
you know, Look, do I gamble occasionally, Yes, But I'm
not very good at poker. It's usually just for fun.
If I go to Vegas site, I may play a

(28:46):
little poker, I may play a little roulette, I may
play the slots a little bit. But I know my limits.
But we live in a society where many people, including
million multi millionaires, who play these games don't know their limits,
and they think they're beyond any sort of accountability. This
is a horrific indictment of our culture. It's the Weekend

(29:10):
with Michael Brown. Stay tuned. I'll be right back. Hey,
welcome back to the Weekend with Michael Brown. If nothing
else in this hour, you've heard me talk about things
that I've really never thought much about and that I
had to do a lot of research that tried to
dig in and truly understand what was going on here

(29:33):
to try to convey to you some idea that you're
not getting what you deserve. And I'm not going to
sit here and indict football or baseball, or golf, for
tennis or any anything else, because right now, all we
had before us is the National Basketball Association. And what
we have before us that I don't think is going

(29:56):
to go away, and I'm not even asking for it
to go away. And that's legal betting. But here's the difference.
The NBA kind of leaned into this legal betting. They
started cutting deals to get official data feeds. They leaned
on engagement gains that come when a casual viewer has
a ten dollars parlay, say it on a Tuesday nine

(30:18):
in February, just to be random. Markets bring money, but
markets also bring money failure. We don't shut down stock
market because insider trading exists. What do we do. We
regulate it and we prosecute it. That's why I'm going.
I got back to Steven A. Smith. Really, so we
found wrongdoing and you're somehow blaming Trump and you're shocked

(30:38):
that the FBI director is out talking talking about it
because it involves the mob. The right analogy, however, cuts
both ways. In the securities markets separate corporate insider well,
let me rephrase this. Security markets separate corporate insiders from

(31:00):
the ability to nudge the underlying asset during the trading day.
A CEO cannot quietly withhold a starting quarterback, say from
the second half, in order to help a friend of
his that he knows is placing a particular bet. But
in basketball, the line between information and influence really is blurred.

(31:21):
And then goes back to the structure of the game,
goes back to the structury of the refereeing, and he
goes back to Also, you pile on top of that
the sports bets and all the different kinds of props
that you prop bets you can make, and you understand
that all of this begins to blur, and that's why
the incentives to cheat becomes so sharp, because the players

(31:43):
become both the source of the edge and the instrument
of the execution. And look, I know it's tempting to
try to find villains and then just stop. Now there
will be criminal liability, and I want there to be
criminal liability where it's appropriate, just as I would like
to see some criminal liability in the United States Congress

(32:06):
for insider trading. But that's going to require the I'm
going to use the word crook. That's going to require
the crooks themselves to make what they do illegal, or
it's going to require the Securities and Exchange Commission to

(32:26):
really start doing hardcore investigation into what members of Congress
do and how they make those trades and on what
information they base those trades. And the Securities and Exchange
Commission already has a boatload of craft that they've got
to do dealing with everything else that goes on trying
to regulate all the markets around the country. The point

(32:49):
I'm making is it's probably not going to happen, but
it is meet right. I despise what Congress does, and
I'm not surprised by what the NBA anymore than if
you've ever studied the original baseball scandal, you wouldn't be
surprised by this at all. If we want fewer scandals

(33:15):
wherever that may exist, we're gonna have to learn to
go deeper and address, for example, in the NBA, this
kind of intertwining that made it possible because the NBA's
very design allows very small acts to move outcomes, and
then the app driven betting marketplace rewards those very minor

(33:37):
insider guided deviations with real money. And you put the
two together, and you invite precisely what we see, not chaos,
but a really smooth, repeated arbitrage of integrity. That is
the perfect storm, while the NBA structure makes it especially vulnerable.

(34:00):
This NFL season has also raised some eyebrows with a
series of suspiciously inconsistent officiating calls, point spread swings, late
game oddities, prompting many observers to wonder, is professional football
starting to develop their own version of the same integrity problem.

(34:21):
It was avoidable in degree, it is correctable in part.
It is not going to go away on its own
anymore than insider trading in congress is ever going to
go away on its own Congress itself is not going
to correct this. And again, insofar as everything, let's just
step back from this story completely for a moment. What

(34:42):
we're seeing happening in the country is something that's long overdue,
and that is law enforcement actually enforcing the law, whether
that's ice, whether that's drug interdictions, whether that's saying to
the the cartels, we're tired of just capturing you, throwing

(35:04):
you in our prisons, destroying the drugs, just to have
you cockroaches replaced by other cockroaches. We're just gonna start
killing the cockroaches. We're going to stop the supply moving
into where the demand is. And I don't deny that
the demand is created on our side of the border.
And insofar as we have begged for decades that we

(35:28):
want people who are in the country illegally without authorization,
who have broken our laws, to be removed from the country.
So what's happening is we're starting to see a return
of law and order. We're starting to see a return
of law enforcement doing what we expected them to do.

(35:50):
Now that's not to detegrate the local cop who tries
to solve a murder, to stop, you know, a robbery
or whatever. It's not No, it's not that it's much
larger than that goes on a grander scale, on a
macro scale. We've kind of decided that, yeah, well we're
just gonna kind of turn our eyes away from all
the drugs coming across the border and the fact that

(36:13):
we don't really do anything about it, and that for
particularly the past four years, we did nothing about the
illegal aliens coming across the border. And look what it's
given us. Have you seen the video, for example, of
the truck driver that I think it was in California
that just slammed into the car in front of him
and just never never touched his brakes, just kept going

(36:36):
in just bam bam, bam bam bam, hit about four
or five cars. And then they find as the crash
began to spread out because of physics, it caught cars
over here on the on the shoulder of the road.
That's because of a lack of law enforcement. And that's
what we're now seeing that we're going to start enforcing
those laws. And so there's an actual reaction to that.

(36:59):
Who those who believe in the Cloward Pivet strategy and
don't want to see that occur. They want the chaos.
We want the chaos to stop. I'll be right back