Luka's Triumphant, Tearful Return to Dallas

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Like like.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Like light the beam go into a couple. Light the beam.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Okay, I'm gonna use that. As the woman said, light
the beam. We are back on the Sports Cave, broadcasting
once again, live to tape here on the east side
of San Antonio, where we find ourselves fourteen days away,
a mere two weeks away from the start of the

(00:35):
NFL Draft two thursdays away. I am your host as always,
Sam Freeze. If you want to reach out to the program,
you can find me on x at Biggest Puma on
Instagram Biggest dot Puma, where I am. I swear I'm
a man of my word. I have been more active
on Instagram. We're still building that platform, but I appreciate

(00:55):
y'all that have followed along here In the last week.
I've seen a good up and followers on the old Instagram,
which makes the corporate overlords happy as well. And if
you hadn't already guessed, the roommate is in here with
me because we are getting ready to head to Port
Aransas again for a nice little weekend away. So might

(01:17):
even have some more footage, some more content for Instagram
coming this weekend. Hell might even make the first post,
but all of that can wait. Today, we've got I
finally got my buddy Toby on to fully give a
solid hour of Luca talk. Obviously, last night Luca makes
his return to Dallas, so that'll be the main segment today.

(01:40):
If you missed Monday's live episode, do me a favor.
Go to YouTube at sports Cave Live. Give us a
subscription there completely free. Won't cost you anything, accept the
time it takes to go to the page. Give a
like to those videos if you don't mind. Apparently that
is import or at least that's what LG tells me.

(02:02):
And as always, the audio version is also out wherever
you get your podcasts. So I'm gonna talk a lot
of Luca in the main segment, but before we get
into that, as always, we start with what I watched
last night, and of course, as you can imagine, it
was Luca centric night of sports viewing from the player

(02:23):
introductions where he starts to cry already all the way
through every fire Nico chant we heard throughout the game,
including four seconds into the game as the Lakers went
to the free throw line early. But also last night
we had one of a potential yay boo situation for

(02:45):
the Spurs. Spurs play late night in Golden State, end
up winning on a buzzer beater from former Warrior Harrison Barnes,
and I say, yay boo, because there's a slim, slim
slim chance the Spurs can move any direction in the standings,
and at this point it's all about preserving your draft odds.

(03:06):
So it's good emotionally for the group to have a
win like that, especially the way that final half minute
played out last night. But that being said, you don't
want to see them do anything that's going to affect
their draft odds at this point because they are eliminated.
The Suns are eliminated. We know who the playing teams

(03:28):
are going to be. But I mentioned the feel good
of a buzzer beater is always good for the group.
Although slim chance that this win ends up costing them
draft position, I don't think that's going to be the case.
So not to get too worried about the overall impact
of last night, just enjoy that moment. Because I mentioned

(03:51):
the final thirty seconds of that game, you know, back
and forth three different times you had Keldon tying the
game up with half a minute left and then ends
up getting the go ahead layup with eleven seconds left.
You think we're feeling good about things, and then sometimes
the way sports is, you get an instant high and

(04:14):
an instant low, or vice versa. And last night for
Harrison Barnes, it felt like it was going from an
instant high of Keldon Johnson getting the go ahead layup
to then an instant low of Harrison fouling Draymond. Draymond
makes both free throws ties it up at one eleven,
but that merely set the stage for Harrison to get

(04:36):
back to the ultimate high of having the buzzer beater
three pointer over Jimmy Butler to win it. Spurs end
up winning one to fourteen, one eleven. Not going to
spend there's only two games left in the season, so
we're not going to spend a whole lot of time
of breaking these meaningless games down the rest of the way.
But I will say they travel to Phoenix on Friday

(05:00):
tomorrow to play the Suns. The Suns are two wins
ahead of them in the column, so technically the Spurs
could catch them. I'd have to double check tie breakers
to see if that would end up affecting their playoff odds.
Or their draft lottery odds. But for the most part,
the Spurs are locked in where they currently stand. There's

(05:20):
not going to be a lot of movement the rest
of the season. Over these last two games, but the
things you like to see obviously the buzzer beater Phil Goodwin,
Steph Castle pouring in an efficient twenty one points eight
of fifteen shooting, But most importantly, I think if you
look at his box score the thirty five minutes played,

(05:42):
that's what you need to see at this point, specifically him,
but the rest of this core. Just getting more experience together,
but specifically for Steph Castle, just getting more NBA minutes
under his belt is a plus in the long run
for the Spurs. And I mentioned the efficient shooting. You
love to see a rookie in the season strong presumptive

(06:06):
NBA Rookie of the Year. I don't think there's much
argument at this point about that. Lastly, I mentioned Kelden.
There another good game off the bench last night, something
that happened since the last time we talked earlier this week.
On Tuesday night, Kelden ends up setting a record that
you know when Jacob Toby mentioned it Tuesday night during

(06:28):
the game, it was hard to believe that it was
actually true. But alas Keldon Johnson, as unbelievable as this
sounds to say it out loud, he ends up passing
Manu for most points scored off the bench in a
single season in Spurs history, which this is one of
those moments where the stats don't tell the full story. Obviously,

(06:50):
I don't think many people would rush to put Kelden
in the same breath as Manu, but at least on
paper and in the record books, it is now Keldon
john and you're leading scorer off the bench in a
single season in Spurs history. But now, with two games
to go, we of course turn our attention to, hopefully
what is a foundational summer, a summer where we look

(07:14):
back on and say, you know, that was when the
Spurs finally got the pieces together, finally made the one
big move with some of their chess pieces. We're going
to talk a lot about that, of course, as we
get closer to the NBA Draft. You've heard me say
it before, I expect this to be a pretty eventful

(07:36):
summer across the NBA. So look not just for the Spurs,
but a league wide. I expect some big names to
be moved, and would expect because of the assets the
Spurs have to at least be involved in some of
those rumors, some of those negotiations. Before we get to
the main segment, though, today, wanted to mention real quick

(07:58):
something else that happened Tuesday night. Something else that happened
since the last time we talked. My Dallas Stars did
the unbelievable, and not in a good way. They end
up giving giving up three goals in the final minute
of the game against the Canucks and lose six to
five in overtime. And the only reason I even mention
it the Stars are chasing the Jets for the divisional title.

(08:23):
Doesn't look like they're going to have enough to get there,
which would mean they're going to have to play Colorado
early first round, have a much harder playoff route. And
so looking back when whatever this Star season, wherever it
does end in the playoffs, whatever round they make it,
hopefully they lift the Stanley Cup. But I think this

(08:46):
is one of those games where you're going to circle
back to this game and say this was this was
a motivating factor to get them to wait because they
haven't been playing that great of hockey, but they've still
been winning games, and Tuesday night it came back to
bite them in the most unimaginable fashion ever. So I
think that's the kind of game where you either say,

(09:08):
you know, that was our final wake up call before
we got our before we got it all together going
into the playoffs, or that was the beginning of the
end of this year. As they gear up hopefully for
a deep run, it's either going to motivate or destroy.
And with the veteran leadership they have and the hunger

(09:29):
they have in that locker room, I'm leaning motivate, but
I could easily be talked into that's the kind of
loss that just hangs with you at least for a
calendar year or a few months in the least, but
not gonna bog down too much. With hockey. We got
a lot of playoff hockey to talk about coming up.

(09:50):
Something else we have a lot to talk about. Even
though there's not gonna be Spurs and there's probably not
gonna be MAVs past the play in, we're gonna talk
a lot of NBA playoffs. The NBA Western Conference this
year was unpredictable in ways that I wouldn't have even
started to guess at the beginning of the year if

(10:10):
you had told me, I mean, obviously the Luca trade.
We're going to talk quite a bit about that, but
just the firing, the coaches, firings that have taken place
in the last month of the season by playoff teams.
Just an insane year for the NBA Western Conference. But
of course the most insane thing to come out of

(10:31):
all of it was the Luca trade. And I'm gonna
have my conversation with Toby here in the main segment.
But since the roommate is here with me, I thought
she would she could serve as the perfect lead in
because I would love to peel back the curtain. I
wouldn't do a good job of describing what it was

(10:52):
like around this house the week and month right after
the Luca trade, So I thought we would get it
from a more of an unbiased perspective, because I would
say I was upset, but I wouldn't say I was
sulking around or.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
It depends on the week.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Okay, or day or day yeah it Uh. Well, since
since you're stepping up to the mic, now, I what
was it like being under the same roof as me?
For the ten days after the Luca trade.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Well, I think it's I can't remember exactly how many
phases of like grief there are, but at first it
was well, it was shock. It was no that that
can't be real. That's the most insane thing I've ever heard.
That's absolutely not real. Then it was real and it
was still shock, but kind of anger. Then maybe sadness.
I don't remember which came first, but yeah, I mean

(11:46):
it was stages of literal grief like this can't it
just it just can't be.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
I feel like it went from it went from shock
and like you said, like like all of us, like Toby, uh,
Like Toby and I were talking about the week that
it happened. You know, the fact that the reporter has
to tweet out that he wasn't hacked tells you how
shocking it was. So shocking was absolutely the first one.

(12:13):
I feel like I immediately went straight to anger. From shocking.
There wasn't like, oh.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah, that's true, you abandoned fandomship, you were gone this
sail the boat sailed bye bye.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah. You can ask her because she's also my proof
reader for you know, posts and social media stuff. And
there were so many posts that I didn't make that
I showed her basically declaring that the MAVs are dead
to me for life, like there is there is no

(12:44):
MAVs fan for life anymore. It's MAVs are dead to
me for life.

Speaker 4 (12:48):
Hell, you almost bought five hundred dollars tickets just to
wear a fire Nico shirt to get kicked out of
a game.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yeah, that's so mad. We were on tilt. We were
absolutely on tilt. But again, I think, as you will
hear with my conversation with Toby, I don't think my
initial reaction was that far off from what everyone's initial reaction.
And I say everyone, this is from a MAVs fan perspective,

(13:13):
but the amount of neutrals or Spurs fans, Rockets fans
basically everyone but Lakers fans. The amount of people friends
that I have that are fans of other teams that
reached out and genuine like genuinely asking like, man, I
hope you're okay, which.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
May have arguably been worse. Right, I'm trying to mourn
in peace.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, let me just let me bury my like, let
me bury this on my own. I don't need help
digging the grave. I don't need Paul Bear's like it's bad,
and I appreciate your sympathy, but I also know, deep down,
as as much as you might tell me it's not true,
I know there were some Spurs fans and Rockets fans

(13:59):
deep down that were like, oh my god, Luca is
out of our division, Luca is out of the state.
MAVs fans are in shambles, their franchise is gonna be
dead for a decade. This is the best thing that
could happen to us as Spurs or Rockets fans.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
Mainly, it's always opportunity, I.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Will say mainly, I think a lot of that was
Rockets fans more so than Spurs fans. But when something
like this happens, yeah, this is where this is where
the definition of fanatic comes into play. Because sports, I
would like to say, sports should never stir my emotions

(14:35):
like they did with the Luca trade, and they never,
honestly never had in my life until the Luca trade.
And I mentioned gonna have Toby join us here in
a minute. I don't think I was alone in that,
and I don't think the owners, the Atlsns, the dumont

(14:56):
I think Nico knew what he was doing. But I
don't think the actual owners under stood just what they
were taking away from the community. I mean, even you,
a casual basketball fan the like you understand the importance
of Luca to that part of Texas. Well.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah, and I mean everything that I've heard, not everything,
but people are saying, and I can see how it's true,
Like the ownership group clearly doesn't care about the fan base,
and that is kind of a crazy shift to make,
and it's really apparent, and everybody was genuinely upset, hurt,
had feelings about and maybe they underestimated it or maybe

(15:34):
they didn't care, but either way, it was not a
good not a good look for a new ownership group.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
If you're gonna tell me they don't, I almost feel
better about them. Not if it's them not caring, right,
because then it's not.

Speaker 5 (15:47):
Cruel, Yeah, exactly, it's it's not the fact that, uh,
you made a mistake based off of ignorance, You actually
did it knowing full well what you were doing.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Somehow that makes me feel better about the whole situation.
But I think we could all agree, at least from
the you know, MAVs fan perspective, there's nothing that will
ever make this feel better, as you can hear in
my conversation with Toby here. So without further ado, I

(16:20):
got Toby on the line for a solid hour of
talk because I wanted to hear. Toby is a long
friend of mine, a good level headed sports fan, not
too fanatical, but absolutely cares more than he should, which
is that balance, that Goldilocks zone of kind of how

(16:40):
you should carry yourself as a fan. So set down
with Toby for a solid hour of Luca talk. That's
what it sounded like last night in the American Airline Center,

(17:03):
And unfortunately, it only took four seconds for the Lakers
to start shooting free throws and give the entire crowd
an opportunity, give them the platform to start the first
fire Nico chance, the first of many from last night
up in Dallas in the AAC. Of course, it was
Luca's first game back in Dallas, his return to Dallas,

(17:25):
and I thought it would only be appropriate to have
two kids that met in San Antonio who bonded over
their shared MAVs fandom. I thought it would only be
appropriate to call up my buddy Toby and get his
thoughts on last night's game. And really it wasn't about
last night. Last night was just the final culmination in

(17:48):
this entire debacle. I mean, it's gonna happen again. He's
gonna come back to Dallas, but this first one is
the one that really, at least for me, watch it
last night, it really drove home the fact that he's
he's never coming back to Dallas, and if he does,
it won't be It won't be prime Luca. It won't

(18:10):
be Luca, you know, six year old, twenty five year old,
having won, having five all NBA first teams already in
the first Like that era of Dallas MAVs fandom is dead,
which is why again I thought it was only appropriate
to bring on my buddy Tobe. Some of y'all that

(18:30):
have listened to the pod for a while, you'll remember Toby.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
He is.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
Former coworker. We met actually together cutting teeth in radio
here in San Antonio.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Those were the days man running back and forth about
NBA free agency.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah, those were the Dell.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
The first now that you said, the first NBA free
agency summer both working together was the never trust a
man from Houston.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
I never trust a man, That's right. I think Kevin
Durant to the Warriors.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
That's right, yeah, COLLEI man, that that just tells me.
That just tells me how long I've been in San Antonio.
How old I'm getting Actually, see, I've.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Hit the I hit the reverse.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Since I've been gone so long, I don't realize how
long I've been gone until I come out there and visit.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
I'm like, oh, I've been gone a long time.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, but it's not sitting in a you know, Croatian
mansion broadcast like you're in Houston.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's kind of like.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
It's also not like San Antonio was letting me build
a house and then said, oh no, we're shipping you
out in the middle of the night.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
That's correct, and that is I mean, this is why
you know I mentioned you know, when I first moved
to San Antonio, I was very staunchly I will never
root for like, I respect San Antonio Spurs, but I
will never root for them. It was something we shared.
I feel like through some divine providence, me softening that

(19:56):
stance over the last five six years has now now
with the MAVs becoming a laughing stock of the league,
it's made me feel better about the softening of my
uh you know, rigid fandelm rigid NBA fandom over the
last half decade.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Listen to your pod last week when you were talking
about that. It made me sick and I was like,
don't get me wrong, there's nothing to cheer for, doubtas
right now. But I have friends down here they're like, oh,
you're gonna become a Rockets fan. Like, absolutely not, I'm
gonna be was it was it Rob Lowe wearing the
NFL had on the sideline. I'm just gonna be just
NBA had.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
I'm just generic NBA fan. Now, Yeah, I'm.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Not even gonna lie.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
I'm maneuvering over to the w NBA. I was like,
NBA fandom is really hard for me right now.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Well, you look at you look at some of those uh,
some of those broadcast numbers, some of those viewership numbers,
and I don't think you're alone in that.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
To begin, get in on the ground level and work
your way up.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
See, it's funny you mentioned the fandom and if you
if y'all missed it, a couple of podcasts ago I
was talking about, you know, I think when you grow
up in a certain area that has pro teams, they
will forever be your childhood teams, like the MAVs. For like,
I played a high school basketball game on the court

(21:13):
at Reunion Arena before a MAVs game. My little brother
played on the court at American Airline Center before a
MAVs game back when we were in high school. Like it.
The MAVs will always be connected to me in perpetuity
for the rest of my life. They are my childhood team.
They will always have a spot on the shelf, a

(21:33):
spot on the mantle, but that that doesn't mean that
spot has to stay prominently displayed right in the middle
of the mantle. And I think that's where you know,
I was talking last week about how, you know, eighteen
years I lived in the DFW market in my hometown
growing up, closing in on fifteen years now in San Antonio.

(21:57):
So we're starting to get to that tipping point point
where San Antonio is the city I've lived in the
most years of my life. And if you only count
sports consciousness, you know, I became sports conscious at like
eight ten years old of actually really understanding you know,
the leagues and then what I'm rooting. Uh, if you

(22:18):
only count sports consciousness. Then I'm well past that already.
San Antonio is the city where I'm Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
But at the same time, I'm sure if I asked
your mom or dad, like, hey, I know you have
a picture of Sam we're in a Cowboys jersey when
he's like four years old. Oh of course, just because
you don't know, it doesn't mean like it wasn't even
like ingrained into you.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Well that's also I mean, when I was four years old,
that was the last time the Cowboys actually won playoff games.

Speaker 6 (22:42):
Man, I'm so glad I checked out on the NFL
outside of fantasy football, because I could not imagine being
Cowboys in Maverick span like die Hard both right now,
It'd be the worst time in my life.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
It would be terrible, and it I think if you
just flashed back fifteen years ago, you know, eleven, I
moved to San Antonio the MAVs. Literally, I moved to
San Antonio in February. The MAVs won their championship, their
only championship that summer.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Oh see, I was about to move to Dallas after
the Mavericks won their championship, but ended up going.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
To Texas State and staid Uta.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
And hints how you end up in San Antonio.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
So going back to that twenty eleven run, you know,
the Rangers had appeared in back to back World Series,
the MAVs had just won their first championship. The Stars
were hanging around. I mean, they weren't the contender they
are now, but they weren't the embarrassment of the league
or anything like that. They were a playoff contender every year.

(23:42):
So back then you could tell yourself, Yeah, the cowboys
are always going to be the cowboys. They're always going
to do this to me. But at least I have
MAVs Rangers stars to fall back on.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Oh for sure, especially with the Rangers. That Rangers twenty
ten to like fourteen run They just won the World
Series two years ago, but that's twenty ten to fourteen runs.
Still probably higher on my fan.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
Though, Oh completely agree, just from the fun.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, just years of fun, half off Papa John's. If
they got seven plus runs.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
They love the old popping that saved me in college.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Great offense, so that is quite a bit and they
would respect it if as long as you were in
a Texas Rangers media market.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
That's right, That's right. And so just having all that back,
Oh man, it was even the was that the was
that the desk caught it?

Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah? Yeahs like twenty.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Twelve, everybody like that was the desk caught it year.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
So like they had a good Dallas Sports in general
had a three to four year run where I'm like,
oh man, they might be able to hit every championship
like in all pro sports.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Oh I remember, I mean we we genuinely talked about
the twenty eleven year, like the Mavericks winning it, the
Rangers being as good as they were there there were
multiple sports radio segment being done in the Metroplex about
how we could we could own multiple we could own two,

(25:07):
maybe even three, four championships at the same time. I mean,
hopes were incredibly high. The highest the analogy you just
made the comparison of you know, what the Rangers felt
like back then twenty ten to twenty fourteen versus what
it felt like two years ago when they won the
World Series. That's kind of where MAVs fandom is right now.

(25:30):
Because I talked about this a lot, and it's something
that you know, a lot of people completely disagree with
me on, but to me, the goal of winning a
championship is not what sports is about. The win, absolutely
that that is the ultimate that's what you're measuring yourself against.

(25:52):
But if you're telling me, would you rather be a
Florida Marlins fan where you missed the playoffs nine years
in a decade, but you win one championship or would
you rather be a team that plays in six conference finals,
plays in two NBA finals, they loop mal uh never
win a championship, But over the course of eight years,

(26:14):
you win fifty games every season, you win two playoff series.
Every season, you were on the you were right there
on the cusp of in the mix. You're in the mix,
and that's where that's where when a team doesn't win
a championship, I don't immediately think this is a total
and utter failure. I go back to it's the journey.

(26:36):
It's the process you're built. You're watching this team or
whatever team, whatever sport it is, you're watching them become
what their ultimate form is. Sometimes that ultimate form is
not a championship team. But it's way more fun to
watch that journey than it is to watch your team.
UH by two middle infielders in the same offseason for

(26:58):
half a billion dollars see here and Semion and then
all of a sudden, oh hey, we won a World Series.
Loved it, loved every minute of it, would never give
it back. But it didn't feel anywhere similar to that
run with Ron Washington at the Hell twenty ten through
twenty fourteen. And that's where the MAVs are right now.

(27:19):
If Kyrie hadn't gotten hurt, if Gafford and Lively hadn't
gotten banged up, if this team was fully held, they
would be in the They're a worst team post trade,
no question, there's no mar made basketball wise that they
would have been a better team than the one that

(27:40):
made the NBA finast year. But if somehow that team
would have made a run to the finals and beat
Boston this year, I don't know of many MAVs fans
that would look at that and say, oh, well, now
the trade was worth it. Now. Yeah, since we won
this championship this year with Ad, that made the trade

(28:02):
worth it. No, don't you don't trade those years of
watching the process develop with Luca for a one year
win now championship And that was best case scenario.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
That was the best case.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, they could win the next three and it still
wouldn't make up for it, because they just betrayed the
fans on such a level.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
I've never seen it before, even like you brought up
the Marlins.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
The Marlins would have a fire sale after their two championships.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
And knew something.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
It was everyone new.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, and they're like, oh, well it is what it is,
like money's coming up, been no big deal. But you're
literally watching the growth from conference finals three years ago,
drop off finals again, and then or they make the
finals and then next year. You know, I'm like, cool,
back up, forward away. Maybe just one missing piece, Maybe
the luck of the seating.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Might help us. Someone knocks off Boston.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Awesome, and we get to see our son Luca grow,
continue and build his legacy here being the big Ones.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
The guy that Dirk singlely put the faith of the
organization into as well. I mean.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
They played it.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Oh so how long did the MAVs have to wait
to find that next replacement? Oh no, actually they played
one year together at the end of Dirk's career. Like
it was, it was written perfectly the MAVs to just
ride that wave of Luca his entire career. I mean,
we'll talk about the game, but last night I mean

(29:32):
during the video tribute, I think Trey Young had the
best tweet of the night and just you know, retweeting
the video of Luca tearing up and crying beyond tearing up,
and Trey Young just captions he was never going to leave, never, never.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
And I don't I've read the Red like clit or
part from like Tim McMahon's book where they're talking about
things like oh, they kind of spoiled him and the
new leadership with Meek okay Man and he's just not
a looking guy. But I'm like, so what this is
the new NBA? Like I might not like it, but
you want to keep your superstar happy?

Speaker 3 (30:07):
And who's the guy? Like, yeah, why does that only
apply to the player and not back towards the management?

Speaker 2 (30:14):
That man?

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Don't give me just oh, you're not AAU. Oh so
you're not a Nike guy.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
You're not my guy.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
That's how Nico thinks, apparently from all reports and.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
What you have felt about Anthony Edwards, Anthony Edwards is
an Adidas guy WHOA well, I can't have that.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
It's like but AAU. It's like I saw him, watched
him grow up. I guess I don't know.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Just it makes no sense to me just from the
just looking at it, where when it happened, you're like,
this has to be fake, this can't be real.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Oh there's a big conspiracy theory. They're moving the team.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Oh he's a secret alcoholic, and like the wheels are
about to fall off, and none of this has happened yet, and.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
It just just it's only one guy, see running through
the running through the conspiracies. I think every great conspiracy
is a good conspiracy because it has a touch of
truth in it. Just the the uh, you know, Luca drinking.
We all remember Finley taking the beer out of his

(31:20):
hand after they won the conference finals last year and all.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
But when that happened, every it was like a joke.
People were laughing, having fun. It was just being made
fun of. It wasn't serious. And now you look back
and you're like, huh, it's.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
A little different context now. Look yeah, and you know
all of the the hookah daunt it, all of the
off season of videos and photos where he's you know,
having a beer at a bistro in Europe or hitting Houkah,
and all of the I just always go back to
the fact that okay, we knew all of that. All

(31:56):
of those if you had those concerns, understandable to some extent.
But that guy, that guy that you're telling me now
is a hookah addict and a drunk and a borderline
early onset alcoholic. Yeah, that guy just led you to
the NBA Finals last year. It led you to the
conference finals with a roster that had Dwight Powell starting

(32:19):
at start.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Dude, it's not even the fact that he led them
to the finals. Like, I think everyone kind of forgets
how easy the Mavericks won run was to the finals,
Like six games against Clippers should have been five games
against the Thunder if they don't shoot fifty one percent
from free throw line. And then they beat the Wolves
in five.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Oh, they had a really easy run where they kind
of just ran through everybody.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
And not only did the Wolves in five, but played
the defensive player of the year off the court, made
him play because of one person on the roster, and
that was Luca.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah, the gravity, it was just like you're out of here.
It's like, get Rudy out of here. But the fact
is he just kind of got washed over and they're like, ah,
he's unhealthy. He's always hurt or anything like this. So
just look back on just makes zero sense. Basketball lose no.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
And that's again, you know, the best conspiracies have a
hint of truth. The you know, having four calf strains
in the same calendar year. Oh, that's most likely because
he's out of shape. Okay, we all see that. We understand. Again.
You want to tell me that's why you make the deal.
That still makes no sense, even though you might be right, Yes,

(33:26):
he's out of shape, but that guy that's out of
shape is a five time first team All NBA player
who just led your team to the NBA Finals the
year before. It's still it will never make any basketball
since whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
But I don't fire the trainer that had the as
worldly known as the greatest trainer in all of sports,
and don't fire him just because he's boys.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
With Luca exactly. Go back to at the beginning of
this season, when during training camp a brand things that
sound different or things that make you think different. Now,
a random reporter Luca, you know, how how are you
feeling going into the season, How how do you how
are things going? And he said, well, they got the
rid of everybody I liked so and it was, and

(34:09):
everyone laughed and we all and he said it with
a smile like Okay, that's fun, that's funny. And now
it's like, what was that the beginning? Like, did they
know then that it was at least something they would
consider as crazy as that even sounds?

Speaker 4 (34:24):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Were they already coming to the conclusion that this is
we're trading this guy by the deadline?

Speaker 1 (34:31):
I from what I read, they already had it played
like if they didn't make the finals run, they were
trading them over the summer from what I read, And
which is just like you have all worldly top three,
all world talent, top three player, imagine having an out
of shape player who's still a top three player exactly
out of quote unquote out of shape and he's still
top three. Like that's worth every problem you have, Like, oh,

(34:52):
he likes to drink, likes to smoke.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Who cares?

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Kevin Durant is a known known parted and which is
final because he's still amazing.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
You know who else liked to drink a lot when
they were twenty five twenty six years old living in
North Dallas.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Dirk Novitski, oh made those pictures? Wait all Platinum was
a fake MySpace. Him and Stein's last drunk pictures went
all platinum back in the early two thousands.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
And it's easy. You google Dirk drunk and then figure
out what year that is in and Dirk openly talks
about it now. He exactly Dirk about it now. Of
I didn't start taking care of my body correctly until
I was twenty eight, twenty nine years old. It took
the embarrassment of the first round exit as the one seed.

(35:40):
It took Dirk being publicly shamed to change his habits.
Who's to say that was not Who's to say that
wasn't just around the corner for Luca.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Oh, yeah, like this, he's twenty six. I'm like, man,
but you have ten years at least.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Five years of prime left where you can figure this out.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah, And that's where it feels. I mean, I think
that's where the conspiracy theories, uh have a little bit
of oxygen, because on paper, everything we just said is
why this trade will never make sense in our lifetime.
There will never be a logical, basketball based explanation for

(36:22):
why the Maps traded Luca. So that's where the conspiracy
theories gained oxygen. Of well, I mean the Atolsons, who,
first of all, going back to you know, Cubans selling
the team, he sold them for lesser value than they
should have gotten because the team except based off just

(36:43):
based off market valuation of the franchises. He accepted a
lower bid because he wanted more cash involved in the bid,
So he wanted more immediate cash, immediate payment instead of
any kind of drawn out payment plan, or instead of
having more of an retained interest in the franchise. So

(37:07):
clearly tells me Cuban needed money, and not the kind
of money that trickles in over the next the rest
of his lifetime. Cuban needed money today that day that
he made the deal, Which so you sell the team
for lesser value to a ownership group that has no

(37:30):
ties to North Texas whatsoever. Their only interest in North
Texas is potentially building a casino in Texas, where as
soon they've been lobbying for years to try to get
legalized gambling passed, still can't get that done. So ironically though,
I think one of Miriam's sons from another marriage had

(37:52):
interned for Cuban, so there was some familial connection, which
is why I think when Mark's as well, you know,
we had a handshake agreement that I was still going
to run things. Well, I think I think he just
made a bad decision more regrant, Yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Just I look back on that when he when he
bringing up what you just said about him having the
handshake deal, He's like, I'm still gonna be president of
operations and all that, and then all of a sudden,
you just I was like, well, why would anyone sell
you the team not being able to control?

Speaker 2 (38:25):
But they own like that doesn't make any values.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Of that to them. And the only reason I bought
into it slightly was the idea that the agelsns the
NBA team is just a vessel for them to get
gambling into tests.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
So they were open about it too.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
They were like, hey, we don't know NBA right, Like
he said, I brought them in because they're casino people.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
They're keeping me around because I'm a basketball guy.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
And that's where, ironically, the basketball guy that ire and
Nico ends up being the goat in all of this.
I think Cuban is getting off incredibly lightly.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
I one hundred agree with you, Cuban, Like, if you're
gonna pitpoint whose fault this is?

Speaker 2 (39:09):
I can just pointed him, and.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Like you brought the was you brought the Wolves into
the henhouse?

Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yeah, and that's why.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah, Like if you didn't bring them in and you
were essentially the safeguard against them, once you're gone, what
do you think was gonna happen?

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, they self admittedly don't know anything about basketball, So
just play it out as Uh, you know, Nico Cuban
hired Nico before he sold the team. Nico was there,
Nico was doing a good job. Uh job, Well, I
think you have to say, I think the addition of
PJ and Gafford aligned with what fits well next to Luca.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
I agree, But also he didn't want that. He wanted
Kyle Kuzma fell into it.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
But again I think every GM, you can look at
deals that the best GM's out there, Some of their
best deals ever are the ones that they weren't able
to get done. Like it's not like his. I mean,
the logic was still somewhat there. I mean, viewing Kuzma
as a better version of PJ. Washington, and then you

(40:14):
settle for you end up settling for a lesser individual
player on paper in PJ. But the addition of Gafford,
I mean Gaffard was a castaway multiple times in his career.
At the age of twenty six, I mean, he was
a guy that was the bulls. He was making what
eleven twelve million a year, and there were a lot

(40:36):
of lead There were a lot of executives across the
league that viewed that as a bad contract. But all
of a sudden, you put him next to Luca and
he's playing to his absolute strengths of rim running and
blocking shots, and his field goal percentage shoots up, and
all of a sudden, on paper, Gafford looks like a
much better player on paper than he did two years ago,

(40:58):
solely because of the pairing with Lucas. So I think
you have to give I mean, if you I don't
think you can hold Jalen Brunson walking out of the
door against Nico, that was I willan Cuban bumbled that
twice before Nico was even hired. I mean, the two
opportunities he had to extend Brunson were before before Nico

(41:21):
was brought in, and then Nico was a part of
the final decision.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, the original second round contract on Brunson, okay, But
then that summer when before they made the Conference finals.
Nico was in charge, could have done something, but also
I was anti Jalen Bronson.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
But when you look back.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
On it now and you're like, oh, to all NBA
guys we drafted in the same draft, first and second
round are both gone on Nico's watch.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Makes you worry, makes you think. And then just there's
the Dennis Lindsay.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Like everyone starting the Dennis Lindsay subtraction is a big.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
That's the one where no one really thought.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
I know, I didn't think about it, but once he left,
everything kind of just fell off, like who approved this
Grant Williams like sign and trade, Like.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Who did that?

Speaker 3 (42:07):
I mean, I would I guess if we're if we're
assigning blame and that's probably a Nico.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
That's gotta be a Nico thing.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
But it's just like Dennis Lindsay was the one who
pushed was it lively just because he had his experience
with the Gobert. He's like, oh, we can work with
this kid.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Yeah, and now should be said. Dennis Lindsay is the
architect of that Pistons revival.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
GM of the year from what they've done for the
Pistons a little bit since hiring him, and hiring a
new head coach.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Yeah, no question. I I think the top pyramid of
the blame game goes to Cuban. Oh for sure, Nico
now is the you know, will forever be the scapegoat
the fact that this is where thinking about the politics
of the Atolsons now, were they aware like they're in

(42:58):
line to lose over billion dollars? I was reading this
report and I think it was Dallas Morning News yesterday
talking about just how much the Mavericks value has changed,
talking merchandise cells, season ticket renewals, attendance at games, you know,
the sponsorships, sponsorships exactly.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
They lost like non figures off of that.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
And that's only going to get worse. There's no It's
not like two years from now, all of a sudden,
I think going to be a massive return of the
prodigal fans that you have now run off, which is
where you know, I think the bigger question to me
is for an average you know, I had friend, I

(43:48):
had multi bunch of friends and family that were at
the game last night, and it's been fun for me
to talk to them just about you know, where is
your where is your personal fandom now? And what does
it even what does it even look like in the
future is is that you know, if if if they
fire Nico, what does that even do for you at

(44:10):
this point personally as a fan, if the Adelson's sell
the team, or if the NBA says, y'all are now
this fan base, We're going to give you an expansion team,
uh to build in Vegas. So y'all can just go
back to your your Vegas. You can have your gambling,
you can do all that, uh, and then we're going
to find a new ownership group for the MAVs. Does

(44:34):
any of like, none of that makes it any easier
to know the product on the court idea.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
It's it's not the fact that it's going to make
it easier, but like if you got a cancer, you
got to cut it out a Nico kid or definitely
the cancer you got to cut out where it's basically,
if they do get fired, I see the dumonts or
is Dumonts right, is a DuPont I'm thinking of dut
Dumonts are They're gonna have to come out take it
and just say we made a mistake, we were swindled,

(45:03):
We believed in something, we were led astray. So basically,
whatever happened, Niko's about to just get whenever he does
get fired, because there's no way he's gonna be able
to keep his job for the next two years. And
everything's gonna come out from ownership. I'm not saying it's
true or not, but everything's gonna come out just dragging
him for being like he swindled us, he made us
believe something else, he lied to us. Anything like this

(45:25):
is just gonna ruin his reputation in NBA circles. But
it won't even matter because, like you said, like it's
not gonna change anything for the fans, especially when they
go see him get a special advisor job with the
Los Angeles Lakers.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
In three years.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah, yeah, just get a quick paycheck to hang out
with the Lakers for a little while.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Like nothing's gonna.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Change, although I could see the Lakers not doing that
because Luca hates Nico so much, so it's just weird, Like,
thank you for what you did for us, but no,
we can't hire you because the guy stuff so bad
is now our face of our franchise. So thanks for
what you did in the past, but no, there's there's

(46:07):
not a job for you here.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
But here's a check for X amount, just right what
you need? Yeah, blank check it for you.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
You can be an off site consultant.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
We were talking about fanhood earlier too when it comes
to this the generational gap too with the young fans
Luca brought in in the Dallas area, Like they're kids,
like young adults, and a lot of the younger generation
cheer for players, not teams. And so that's why you
saw all the influx of Lakers jerseys last night, where
the fans like us that have been like, oh, this

(46:41):
is who you cheer for, this is what you're raised.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
On, grew up on all that.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
That's kind of gonna be I think that's going to
die out because I don't think they realized the backlash
of them running all of.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Those fans out too.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Oh, I don't think there's the the era of sports
fandom in terms of the generation. Like I left junior
year prom early to watch the MAVs get embarrassed by
Bobby Jackson, Mike Bibby, and Chris Webber in a playoff
series against the Kings back in oh what was that O?
Two to three?

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Year, Like the kids aren't doing that anymore. As soon
as you Luca, it's I could care less about the MAVs,
and you mentioned the Lakers jerseys in the stands. I
don't like that either. There's no there's no scenario whatsoever
that I would ever, ever, ever root for the Lakers.

(47:36):
Like last night, I wanted Luca to score one hundred,
but I still wanted the MAVs to win, even like
maybe this first game. Sure, I'm okay with the Lakers
winning it, but I don't want to see Luca just
dominate the MAVs record wise the rest of his career.
Because I'm not a Lakers fan. I don't want to
see the Lakers do well. I want to see my

(47:56):
guy do well. But the team wise, I hope they crater.
I hope. I hope it's so bad they end up
trading him somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
I hear you on the Lakers part, like they're up
there for all time teams. I would just refuse to
cheer four. But I see why so many people left
just to be Luca fans. If Luca leaves the Lakers,
if they trade him, or he leaves free agency, whatever,
if he goes to Charlotte Hornet, it's like you're gonna
see these seeing fans wearing Hornets jerseys.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Sure, but I don't think I would ever see you
or I wear a Thunder jersey if.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
He absolutely not, I wouldn't. I'm never gonna buy Luca
jersey ever.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Any team he goes for, it's over, Like it's done.
I'm out, Like I'm cheering for you constantly, like I
hope you do well, just not at the expense of
my team.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
How you How did you handle the Michael Finley in
career saga?

Speaker 2 (48:52):
The you know them?

Speaker 3 (48:54):
It's very similar where Finley decided to leave h just
like Luca didn't decide to the organization said Finley you
were you were no longer? Yeah, you're fine, okay?

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Each shiit Mike Finley when he went with the San Antonio.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Spurs, I was furious, Really, maybe.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Don't stink in the playoffs every year?

Speaker 3 (49:15):
See my my immediate going back then, it was like, yeah,
that makes if I'm Finley, that makes a lot of sense.
You've seen them win championships, You've seen them be the
UH final hurdle for your MAVs in in Western Conference finals,
in UH second round matchups, like this team, just did
you dirty. Yeah, absolutely go to San Antonio and make

(49:39):
make it hurt for uh, you know, Cuban and the
and the brain trust in Dallas.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
We were like seventeen eighteen when that happened. I just
remember being a young fan. I'm like, what it's like
they Andy s doom. I don't even know what that means.
But he went to the Spurs.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Never in my life.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
Yeah, I I I think there's a huge difference between
like certain teams. The Lakers are just the worst possible
team for him to go to. I think that's what
makes it so hard for me to wrap my head around, like,
you know, Oklahoma City and this is the other thing,
the fact that they didn't shop him. They didn't as

(50:16):
as as Nico said in the press conference, we knew
we were going to have a tumultuous summer ahead of
us if we kept Luca on the roster. That's who's
we dude.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Yeah, But like also who's weed. No one was thinking
of that.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Everyone was like anytime something got reported, they're like, oh,
teams a line enough for if Luca becomes a free
agent in a couple of years and all of it
would get shot down.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Were like no chance, see you later.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Yeah, and usually where agents are stoking those flames. It
wasn't happening with Luke. We're seeing it happen more with
Giannis over the last two years. And granted, I mean
later in his career, you know, six years ahead career wise,
but you know we had there was none of that
smoke coming from down. There was again like the Trey

(51:02):
Young tweet, he was never gonna leave.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
It was well, I never thought he would leave unless
it was just something of like XYZ happened where it
was out of his control, where team fumbled. This team
fumbled that they weren't able to get these players, or
they made bad trades. I was like, okay, if he
left it It's like early when Dirk and before twenty
eleven or right after two thousand eleven there was rumors

(51:26):
of him being leaving possibly where you're like, okay, I
get it.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
You did everything you could. There's no trust here. Everyone
would understand.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Yeah, you choose, Yeah, you paid your dues.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
You did everything you could.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Like if Dirk ever left and never won a championship,
fans would still like adore him in Dallas.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Yeah, No, it's I mean Madonna is the perfect example.
Of that, you know, the fact that Madonna forced his
way off the Stars at the end of his career
because he wanted to try to win another Cup and
he ends up playing for the Red Wings of all teams.
And there were some upset fans in the few years

(52:08):
you know, during you know, as he was traded and
in the few years he had left in the league.
But Madonna has a statue in front of the AAC
right now, right across from Dirks, because at the end
of the day, the fans understood, like, oh yeah, go
chase your another championships if you were not ready to win,
and you were deserving of that.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
And these guys weren't terrible, but they were on the
tail end of their primes too, where you're just like
times running out, not a twenty five year old stud
who's been first team All NBA ninety his NBA career.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Yeah, yeah, no, these guys don't. They just don't fall
out of trees. Like even even if somehow the MAVs
hit in the draft, Lotter say they they lose in
the play in which I want to ask you about that,
your even hopes are for the play in they lose
in the play in they keep a lottery pick, and somehow,

(53:06):
by the grace of God, the NBA freezes the envelope
again like they did with you Ing, and the MAVs
get Cooper Flag. I would still rather have current Luca.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
Yes, prime Luca.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
Next you're telling me, oh, okay, well you just got
screwed out. Your team made a dumb decision and traded Luca,
but you got incredibly lucky and you got the quote
unquote next guy in Cooper Flag. No, I would still
if eighteen nineteen year old Cooper Flag or twenty six
year old Luca. I'm still going Luca every single time.

(53:41):
And the odds, the Cooper Flag odds, that's not happening.
I mean, they're so menis me?

Speaker 2 (53:45):
The Mavericks are due.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
We've never moved up in the draft ever, so we
got to be due off the This.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Won't be it, but it's gonna be a year.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
We get a top pick finally, and then it's a
terrible player.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Here's the more Well, Luckily, even if the MAVs were
at able to move up into the back half of
the top ten, with the way this draft class is
so strong on paper, assuming you make the right decision
and don't take Johnny Flynn when you should have taken
Steph Curry. Shout out Cohn the old it was.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
I feel bad for him because the Rubio pick was
the right pick, but the Flynn pick was the bad pick.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Yeah, that's the one that killed him. Well yeah, the
fact that it was if you're going to take two
point guards, the fact that one of those wasn't Steph Curry,
that's other killer.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Steph and Rubio would have been fine. I was like,
Flynn had a hot like what Big East tournament and
uh national tournament, that's what built Yeah, that's what built
him up.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Like and he was I mean, he was a big recruit,
but it wasn't like he was, uh, you know, a
top five guy in his in his high school class either.
But even this is the thing now at this point,
as long as Nico is whole holding on to that job,
I think it would take the MAVs if they got

(55:05):
the first pick in the draft. I think Nico would
take Cooper Flag. If they got the second pick in
the draft, if somehow miraculously they moved up all the
way to number two, Nico would trade that pick for
Kevin Durant.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
This summer a package of Kevin Durant and like Grayson Allen,
and because he knows his windows only two years after this,
after twenty twenty six, he's toast because he has no picks.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Maverick's about to have.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
The worst, Like once he's fired, it's gonna be the
worst job in NBA to take because there's nothing to
build with.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Yeah, you have eight Yeah, no young.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Stars, no assets, all old like old all NBA guys
who just aren't all NBA guys anymore.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
Yeah, and see that's the thing I mean, going back,
we'll wrap up on the on the Luka talk. But
Cuban said it in an interview recently of Look, I
understand if you're going to make that decision, you're going
to make the decision, but you got to get more
back for him. So like even the fact that Okay,
we want we have zeroed in, we want Anthony Davis

(56:13):
in return as part of this deal. Anthony Davis is
a great player, he's top ten, top twelve in the
league when he's healthare, but he's also a man with
the nickname of street closed. Because he's telling me, part
of the scared to give Luca the Supermax deal is
because you Joel embiid not be available on a supermax contract.

(56:37):
You see, you tell me you have all these concerns
about his drinking, about his Okay, so then you can
get a guy that is barely able to play sixty
NBA games every season his entire career. Sixty I think
sixty eight is like an average number for him, and that.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
He only looked all worldly in the bubble. Yeah, the bubbles,
the only time you're like, oh, he put it, he
finally put it together.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
It's been ten years, he put it together, and.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
As soon as everyone got out of that bubble, we're
right back to who he.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
Was, right back and again who he was is still
an incredibly valuable player. But on this just one for
one a D versus Luca, there's nowhere close to similar value.
So you say you want Ad in the trade. Well,
let's look at what else the Lakers have. Well, they
have two first round picks. Okay, well we'll we'll take

(57:30):
one of those, which.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Won't even matter because they're gonna have Luca on the team.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
A thousand percent. Just in headline or just in principle,
you have to get both of those first round picks.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
You have to get everything, let protections on them, do
whatever they You just have to have the optics of, yeah,
we got actual.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Assets, we got everything they could give us. The fact
that Austin Reeves, the fact that it ended up being
Max Christie instead of Austin, so it.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Suld have been Max Christi and Apan. But like the
fact that you didn't get him because you were afraid like,
oh well, if we give up Reeves, we have to
tell Luca about the trade and he's gonna get you
fired before the deal goes down.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
And what you're referencing there is the fact that the agents,
specifically Nico, the two GMS, Nico and Polinka, and talking
with the agents specifically said we're we're not negotiating through
the agents, We're not letting this get out to them.
We're gonna make this deal and then tell the agents

(58:38):
the deal is done, instead of having any kind of
negotiation to get a better haul. That was what that
was how Polenka got Nico over, you know, basically leveraged
him to be like, oh no, no, no, you can't tell
anybody about this. We got to get the deal done now.
And so that's how Austin Reeves ends up not being

(59:02):
involved in the deal. So at the end of the day,
trade was always going to be dumb. Even if you
had even if you had contacted Oklahoma City or San
Antonio and said, literally, give me you have thirteen first
round picks over the next six years, give me ten
of them, that still wouldn't have been a deal that

(59:25):
I would want to see done. But it I would
rather have the hope of future prosperity than a thirty
two year old Anthony Davis and Max Christy, who see.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
I'm the opposite. I don't like picks.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Everyone likes having a lot of draft picks until it's
time to actually draft to people, mainly because I don't
trust anyone in the front office to draft anyone, just
because it's been twenty five plus years, a fan hood,
thirty years, and it's never been a good draft. Dallas Mavericks,
Devin Harris, Josh Howard, Marquise.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Daniels, Twine Jamison was a draft day trade.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Yeah, here's a draft day trade.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
So like all of our actual picks outside of Luca
and Brunson have never been rased.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
I mean they traded for Dirk.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Yeah, okay, that's fair, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
But at the same time, just like drafting is just like, oh,
the picks are good to package in trade, and for me,
that's just my philosophy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
The biggest thing the way I look at it is
it allows it provides you more flexibility. Ad on this
roster doesn't provide any flexibility. Having seven or eight future
first round picks of varying value. That provides you more flexibility.
That's fair over the next three years, because now the

(01:00:44):
MAVs over the next three years are Anthony Davis, who's
locked into four year extension after this one or maybe
three year with this one being the fourth year, Kyrie Irving,
who now is either going to opt in to the
last year of his deal because of the injury, or
there's no way the MAVs don't come try to come

(01:01:06):
extension with him because it's not like that money is
going to come off your books and you can sign
anybody else. They're over the cap. So Kyrie's coming back
in some form or fashion. And then it's about the
ill fitting pieces like Gafford, like PJ. Washington, like Klay Thompson,
all these guys that were specifically brought in to play

(01:01:27):
with Luka Doncic now you're having to piece them around
Anthony Davis. So that's where the flexibility is the word
I come back to, because if you had gotten a
more picks based deal, then your your complete teardown. Then
you're trading Gafford and PJ and your move. You're completely

(01:01:48):
starting over. They're trying to do a they're trying to
convince us that they didn't get actually worse than they
really did through this trade. And again, the Kyrie injury
screws up all of this hypothetical conversation because they wouldn't
have been a championship contender with a healthy Kyrie, but

(01:02:08):
they would have been way more interesting going into the playoffs.
And that's the part that drives me the most insane.
They represented the Western Conference in the finals last year.
This year, they should have been smack in the middle
of this insane Western Conference, you know race like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
The yeah win healthy, they had the best record, like
when their whole starting vibe was healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
They just never got healthy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Yeah. And you know, obviously Oklahoma City looks the best.
They are the best regular season, no question, but there's
still massive questions about how that unit is going to
win playoff series.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
They're not built for playoffs. I'll tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
That not yet. I mean, Hartenstein helps a lot with
the size, but it's his first run through the playoffs
with them. This year, again, I think is a paper
tiger in a lot of ways where they haven't been
through any postseason battles together. And there's your top two seeds.
Seeds three through eight are all teams that absolutely you

(01:03:18):
would have had just as good a chance to represent
the West and the finals as the MAVs would have, you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Know, to those Seeds fired their coach.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Again, the craziness of the Western conferences here, Luca traded
mid season, Memphis fires Taylor Jenkins with a month ago,
and Denver fires Mike Malone and Calvin Booth former.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
mAbs Calvin Booth in two thousand and one.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
That's right in Utah that first playoff series Dirk ever won.
Booth was Denver's GM, So they fire him and Malone
on the same day, Clearhouse, with ten days to go
in the season.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Weirdly respect that, they're like, oh, we're not picking a side.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
You'll are both fired.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
Yeah no again, maybe Dumont can look at that as
inspiration to tell Nico and Jakib guys, it was a
good one. But you've completely screwed up our future and
our investment. And we are money people and you have
made us lose significant amounts of money. Y'all are both gone.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
I don't care how rich wealthy you are if you're
gonna sit there at games and hear them yell. Every
fans scream fire Nico, and everything online, all the discourses,
this is the worst trade in sports history.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
You have to be seeing that. It has to be
eating at you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
There's just no way you just like, ah, like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
No big deal.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
These fans don't know what they're talking about. There's no
way that goes through your mind. After what are we on.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Two almost two months since the trade?

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Yeah? Or or let me propose the idea. He might
just have a giant humiliation kink, and he might actually
be enjoying the hell out of because at the end
of the day, Nico feels he personally knows he is
the smartest guy in any room he walked into. He

(01:05:07):
has that aura. That's who he's always been, That's who
he was at Nike. That's how he fumbled the Steph
Curry presentation at Nike. That's why Steph Curry's at under
armour because Nico thought he was smarter than he actually was.
Those kinds of guys somehow it I don't understand it.
I could never understand it. But sometimes those guys like

(01:05:29):
having the rest of the world. I mean, it's it's
in a way, it's Jerry Jones in a lot of
ways of like everyone else out there thinks I'm the idiot,
but I know what I'm doing is right. I know
what I'm doing is the smartest, And so it forms
this weird humiliation kink where like, oh yeah, let me
let me hear from everybody how bad I am at
my job. As I continue to do it day in

(01:05:52):
and day out, I think, don't be something there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
He's like, don't boo me, I've seen what makes y'all
cheer anything like that or just part of his Hollywood ritual.
I don't know, but it just doesn't make any sense
to me, and that's never gonna It's just I'm never
gonna get closure on this ever in my life.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
I think you just were coming up against it here.
I think you just nailed it. The It's never going
to make sense, which is why it's never going to
have any closure. It's just always going to be the
wound that won't heal. The only only way I could
ever see myself gaining any kind of closure is we

(01:06:28):
get you know, solid leaks of emails from the league
office to the Atlesins telling them, you know, we will
approve your ownership. We will approve Cuban sell of the
team to you if you trade Luca to the Lakers
within twelve calendar months.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Yes, anything like that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
It has to be something that concrete to explain it
where I will get any closure from this, because you,
I mean, you started this at the top of this
talking about there's there is no trade that I can
think of in my lifetime that compares to the absurdity

(01:07:10):
level of this one.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
No, Like the Kauhi one floored me a little bit,
but it wasn't floor It's like more laughing, like, oh man,
this this is what y'all get built not bought. When
Kawhi got traded from the Spurs to Toronto, I was like, oh,
look what built not bought gets you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
But it was at least a rift between because there
was a whiss there.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
There's tea leaves there. You saw a little bit of
things and just not in the middle of the night.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
I was I'll tell you a buddy of mine called me.
The only time he's ever called we're texting, guys, he
called me. The only time I ever got a call
from him is when he got shot, like ten years ago. Yeah. Yeah,
And so I just remember I asked. I was like,
I picked up, It's like, did you get shot? And
he was just like, oh, it's like you get Like
why are you calling me at midnight?

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
And he's like, Oh, you're gonna feel like.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
You get you got shot when you see what happened, Like,
what are you talking about that? He sends me the
link of the Shams tweet and I'm like, oh, that's fake.
That's not real.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
There's no way this is a.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
And then immediately Shams followed that tweet up with another
tweet that said, guys, I hadn't I haven't been hacked.
This is real, this is happening.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Oh man, I can't believe he wasn't hacked. I remember
for hours just like it's not real. It's fake, Like
no one would ever do that, Like no one would.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Ever trade this guy for street glows.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
It makes no sense.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
I think the the perfect last night, the perfect quote
to come out of all of that was Jason Kidds saying, well,
you know, some people are comparing it to the trade
for Babe Ruth, so that's kind of cool. Like, no, no,
this cool, that's cool for Yankees fans, but you work
for the Red Sox.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
You just have like you're missing the whole point when
people say that it's not supposed to be clever or funny. Man,
it's there's no wittedness to this. I think he's trying
to put him it up, but I'm like, no, like,
there's no like funny part to this. This is like
you ruin the team for decades.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
And that is what the responsibility that Nico had in
that position. That is what he failed to understand. You
have ruined You have ruined the team for a city
for decades. And in the first press he won't do
press conferences at home, he won't do press conferences in Dallas.
But right after they made the trade, he did the
press conference. I think they were on the road in

(01:09:28):
Philly or someone Cleveland, Cleveland, and though he walks into
the room and he goes, oh, there's a lot more
people here than usual. Did something big happen And it's like, dude,
read the room. He can't. He can't. That's where I'm
telling you, it's a humiliation king, Like he's getting off
on this every night, knowing that he he had, he

(01:09:50):
achieved personal success to gain the power to make this
kind of decision that affected millions of people. I think
that's that's the part he and always about the job
is just having that power, not all right decision with
said power.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
I remember telling you this right after the trade appen
because I told some other friends were a little bit
younger than us, were Mavericks fans. I'm like a lot
of people don't remember the nineties Mavericks run and that
is all time bad sports run for any team, any league,
and I terified.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Sports for any league, any play anyone anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
And there's nothing even to show for.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
They're like they didn't get a bunch of top picks,
even the topics they did get with like Jason Kidd,
they traded within two years, like all time bad run,
and I'm like, we're we're about two years away from
that happened again.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
The only thing they had to show for it was
Gary Trent Junior pointing out women in the crowd for
his dad to go talk to so that then they
could share later that night. That is a true story.
That was the nineties Mavericks. That was what we got.
We got Dennis Rodman refusing to leave the court sitting
cross legged at the free throw line after getting ejec

(01:11:00):
did we got? We got Scout nights that I would
go to, you know, boy Scout nights where the arena
the only way they could get people in the arena
was have like healthcare workers night, and the whole arena
would just be nurses and like no one else went.
So when it was boy Scout Night, it was all
boy Scouts and it was only you know, halfway a

(01:11:21):
third of the way.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Full the love triangle. So don't forget the love triangle.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
Tony Braxton do, oh well, yeah, I mean the the
again could have been, could have had something, but nineties
Mavericks curse. Tony Braxton gets in the middle of the
love triangle metaphorically so to speak. The one thing it
I don't like, obviously, the fact that it's the Lakers

(01:11:49):
that are going to have now because now the West
to me, one of these two teams, Warriors or Lakers,
is going to miss Oklahoma City until potential the Conference finals.
Just looking at how the standings are right now, odds
are one of those teams will end up getting to

(01:12:09):
go through Houston. Do you do you trust Houston to
beat the Lakers? Now with Luca and Lebron, do you
trust to beat the Warriors?

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
I trust you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
I trust Houston for one series. They're gonna be that
team that's too young to know any better. But once
it starts getting deeper, and then you're like, oh man,
y'all really don't have a go to guy in the
clutch that can create for other people. And I can
see them handling the Lakers in five, like see.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
The Memphis or Minnesota someone like that. First round.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
Ye, I think first Minnesota I think would give them
problems a little bit, just because Minnesota has size. Yeah,
but if they played the Lakers, I think they would
run the Lakers off in five, just because they have
so many big athletic bodies and sow at Luca and
Lebron like those guys are so deep from three like
six seven guys or are just like hey, like I'm
in Tom's and even Jalen Green's turn. I'm not a

(01:13:02):
Jalen Green guy, but he's turned it on in the
last six weeks. He's a bucket where I just feel
like they're good for one series and then by SERI
like round two, just like, oh, we're not made for
this moment yet.

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
So you have more you have more faith in potentially
Golden State than the Lakers.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Oh one, just because they've been there. They actually have
a little bit more size, more depth. But you have
the two best, like two top five six players in
the world with Luca and Lebron, Like, I think you're
built for like a quick series where if it was
the best of five, Yeah, but man, you need size
in the playoffs and they don't have that. And I
think that's gonna They're gonna get crushed by some teams

(01:13:43):
just because of that.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
And and that's where you know the Warriors, Draymond just
plays so big, but they don't have a lot of
the big bodies either. I just think the West was
so wide open. I mean back at the beginning of
the season, I said, uh, Denver versus Boston in the finals,
and still had the most faith in Denver until earlier

(01:14:06):
this last week with the Malone firing, that immediately makes
me think like, well, you know, maybe maybe all is
not right in the Mile High City. They still have
the best basketball player on the face of Earth. So
I think I still lean, you know, if you remove
Oklahoma City from and and say who besides Oklahoma City,

(01:14:29):
I think I still say Denver. But it's interesting, you know.
I think we're gonna see one of these old guards,
one of these you know, kind of one final run
for either the Warriors or the Lakers. I think one
of those teams ends up in the conference finals against
Oklahoma City, and I it feels like a year where

(01:14:51):
Oklahoma City is the obvious choice, which is why I
think it's gonna be a fluky year. I think a
lot of people would say last year was a fluky
year with Dallas making it all the way to the finals.
I think we're going to get another run like that.
I still think it might be, but they look with
Jimmy Butler, that's that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
I'm leaving more Warriors just because it's gonna be I
think this is like STEP's last real go and I
think Jimmy knows that, Hey, like this is it like
next year is not happening, Like y'all might be on
the team, but just they're getting older, and I think
this is going to be like the last great run
the Warriors might have.

Speaker 3 (01:15:27):
I also think Jimmy and Draymond are the perfect kind
of teammates to be around each other for three years.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Oh yeah, well Draymond's been around what fifteen now.

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
Right, But I'm talking Jimmy Butler.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
Oh yeah, well that's Jimmy everywhere. That's just like, yeah, that's.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
Jimmy everywhere, exponentially more explosive next to Draymond.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
So if they if they make a legit run this
year and they say they do win the finals, I
could see they're big best friends for life, having a
podcast and team, and I.

Speaker 3 (01:15:59):
Think it would probably be the most entertaining piece of
NBA media outside of inside the NBA.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Yeah, it's all the smoke. It's basically all the smoke guys.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
They're still playing. That's what it's gonna be like, though,
if they would a championship, they're gonna be all the
smoke guys.

Speaker 3 (01:16:14):
In Teniers was literally calling Karl Anthony Towns a pussy
at thirty minutes before they tip off to play against
each other.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
And a funeral, a funeral, like he's scared to play us.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
He's literally bess, like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:16:31):
I don't care stand by what I said.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
I wish I would have said it better.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
Don't we all, don't we? That's that's exactly how I
feel after I finished recording one of these up, I
wish I had said it better.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
I wish I would say a little bit better.

Speaker 3 (01:16:44):
But my man, I knew, I knew you were going
to have some perspective on this Luca deal. That I
knew you weren't going to run off and become a
Lakers fan. That's no, no, that's what I wish I
had said that better. That's what trying to say.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
I'm not. I don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
I will never care about the Mavericks.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
Like I did the day before that. Those are those
years are gone, which is why three and a half
more years, baby, and I.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
Oh no, I.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
Shall never do that either, baby, absolutely not, absolutely not.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
And with that, I think we have an ender buddy, brother.
I appreciate it as always need to have you on
more often.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
If you please, let me know, I'm always down to
come in, shoot, shoot the ship and talk some hoops.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
Hell yeah, well, I need an NBA Playoffs correspondent, so
we'll talk here in a few weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
Sounds good to me, brother, word.

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
Piece, letpoom, there it goes, folks. Thanks again to Toby
for joining me. I know it's it's not an easy
time for MAVs fans. I appreciate his transparency and openness
and talking about what can only be described as a

(01:17:57):
soul crushing, franchise altering, fandom altering trade. But again, thanks
to Tob, I'm gonna have him on again to talk
at NBA playoffs and of course NBA Draft and off season,
because if you couldn't tell, he is someone similar to
myself who enjoys the business and the transactional side of

(01:18:19):
sports just as much as the action on the court.
So thanks again to Toby for joining me. That will
do it. For today's episode. The roommate and I once
again are running out of the house here headed to
the beach. But fear not, we're gonna do a little
Who Won the Internet beachside surfside down in port A,

(01:18:40):
so be looking for that to drop sometime tomorrow. As always,
appreciate y'all riding along on this thing as we continue
to evolve into whatever the final state is of this podcast.
We will get there together, and I appreciate y'all support.
But till then, we'll talk to tomorrow kids. What do

(01:19:01):
we say about drugs

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
Hoia, You just stay only yeah,

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