Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Relationships, whether romantic, platonic, familial, are complicated and can be
downright MESSI bringing out the best and worst in all
of us. Here's an opportunity for you to learn effective,
concrete strategies to help you build healthy relationships from the
inside out. It's on Bleep Your Life and Relationships with
(00:21):
host Anita Ashland, psychotherapist of over twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Unbleep Your Life
and Relationships. I'm your host, Anita Asley, psychotherapist of over
twenty five years and published author of Unbleep Your Life
and Relationships. The book can be found on Amazon and
Simon and Schuster. If you guys are new to the show,
I talk about all things relational and mental health as
(00:49):
a psychotherapist, working with individuals, couples, and families, and just
going through life myself. I'll tell you something. Relationships can
be complicated, Well maybe not, can they are comp Let's
just say that they are complicated, And I just want
to say that relationships is not exclusive to romantic relationships.
(01:10):
Relationships mean the relationship you have primarily with yourself. Yes,
we have one chapter one self awareness, the relationship with
that we have with our families, with our friends, with
our peers. They are way beyond the romantic one that
we tend to think about now. They are inherently, as
I said, complicated in our influence by myriad of factors.
(01:34):
Relationships just can make people feel the best of emotions
and also the worst of emotions. And really, for me,
I've been thinking about this, you know, I often think
about what is it that I can do to help
people navigate their relationships, what kind of skills I can
share with them, and also bring into my own history
(01:55):
and my own life about some of the complications I've
experienced myself personally in relationships. We are gonna I have
a quick Q and A Today. A lot of people
sending questions and comments to my social media asking me
to ask Lee. I appreciate that, guys. I do like
the interaction. We're gonna have Collins soon. Sometimes the time
(02:16):
that we record the show in the morning is not
I know, some of you called me and said, you know,
if you did the show later, it'd be easier. You're
all working way, which we all need to do. We
need to work. But anyway, I have some questions that
I think will help you know, you might have not
sent in the question, but I think you might relate
to it and it might help you. But before we
get on with that, I want to welcome back Greg
(02:37):
Is back our studio with me in all good healths.
I missed him, Oh yeah, because we got Yeah, our
relationship are working together, was going really well that I
had to build one with Andrew and you's a good kid.
He's a great kid, and we had to, you know,
to talk about what's needed and what's expected on both sides,
leading into what we're going to talk about today, the
(02:58):
three m's relationships. Now you might be thinking, what does
that mean? What are these three m's? Has nothing to
do with Eminem's all right? Not so funny? Okay, my
kids will tea.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I want M and ms right now.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
My kids always say, Mom, you're not that funny. I
know you think you are, but hey, I try right. So,
as you know, and as I've said before on this show,
if you have tuned into my other sessions, I always
think of the show as sessions, So excuse me if
I use that term. It is not a therapy session.
But I just like the word. And most of my
(03:31):
time when I'm not in studio, I am in sessions.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Well, honest with you, this is kind of my session
because I learned so much from you. Every week, think
I bring it back home to tell my wife thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
She's gonna come in and tell me what are you
teaching Greg? What are you doing to him? But anyway,
maybe I will just start referring to this as sessions
and I won't get any trouble from anybody else. Getting
back to the nature of relationships. Now, we are very similar.
I believe we're very similar in what our needs and
expectations are, but different in that how we speak of them,
(04:06):
how we manage them, and so forth. Helping me get
back to what I started talking about, are the three ms.
Most relational problems I believe are a function of the
three ms. The first m's mismanaged needs and expectations, miscommunicated
(04:27):
needs and expectations, and misinterpreted needs and expectations. I'm sure
you guys listening out there can relate to this. I'm
just giving you the lingo. Sometimes part of it is,
you know, listening to the show and being in session
with my patients is helping them to have words that
match their feelings what they're struggling with. Again the three ms. Now,
(04:50):
what do I really mean by that? Okay, let's unpack it.
Let's start with miscommunicated needs and expectations. Now, we talk
about miscommunication often, we hear that word often. What does
it really mean? It is really when we are sending
a message to someone and then we are receiving a message,
we're receiving a message from someone, and when we miscommunicate,
(05:14):
there's a failure to communicate clearly. And especially today, there's
so many different ways that people communicate with each other
that has added to the complexity of communication. Right. I've
talked about this a million times and I will continue
to talk about it because most of the people I
work with today, their primary mode of communicating is via
(05:36):
text messaging. And I want everybody today to hear this
loud and clearly, and I don't want to miscommunicate my message.
Let me be clear when you're trying to resolve an issue,
When you're trying to resolve a problem, I really believe
personally but mostly professionally from listening to people for so long,
(05:58):
especially in the last decade, we need to have a
face to face conversation today. I know when I hear
the word conversation. Well, I know now. I used to
think it was the way I communicated. Most people communicated,
which is through language, through words, to sitting with each other,
(06:19):
hearing the voice and so forth. Now it's primarily through
the words on a screen. So much room for miscommunicating.
And I tell people listen, I love text messages. It's
a great way to get some information very quickly, but
it is not the best way to communicate about a
problem that you're having. Now you can communicate to your partner,
(06:42):
say twelve o'clock tomorrow, I would like to talk about
some of the issues that we're struggling with. Perfect It's great,
but don't start writing a paragraph, don't start writing a book.
And this is what I help people with today. Often
when they say conversation to me, now it generally means
it is via texting. And my first job, I believe,
(07:05):
is to help them go back to the basics, which is,
let's have a verbal conversation with each other, face to face.
Why so we can minimize some of the miscommunication around
our needs and expectations. That's the first M. We gotta
unbleep that M. Because I do think in light of
(07:27):
all this amazing stuff about ecommunication. There's a lot of
stuff that is not that amazing, and it creates you
try to solve one problem, it creates another problem. I've
had that happen to myself. I'm trying to communicate clearly
to somebody over texting about an emotional issue that's going on,
and that, in my experience, goes sideways and I pick
(07:48):
up the phone, I call the person and I can
just see if my daughters in their room. She's like,
oh Mom, that's the biggest faux pas. You can't do that.
I'm like, what are you talking about? You cannot return
reply to a text message via a phone call? What
are you doing? And I said, well, I'm trying to
clearly communicate because what I've said so far has been miscommunicated,
(08:10):
I think, and I'm not going to go back and
forth a million times to clear this up.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
We're very frustrating emojis too, they said, when they start
setting emojis like go okay, the thumbs.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Up means what, yeah, what are you saying?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Is it good?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Or is it yeah? Sure? You're right because a heart
you can't miscommunicate that. But if you give give me
a thumbs up, to several things I've said in the message, Yes,
and I've had It's funny you say that because I
had that happen recently. I'm like, Okay, wait a minute,
are you saying thumbs up to the first part of
my message, the last part of my message or the
(08:43):
middle part? I'm not sure. It's not clear to me.
So then I, you know, have to go back and
forth with you. And then it's this whole thing, right
if we just set it to each other. And I
know that sometimes we don't have time for that phone call,
but if it's something that you're going to have to
write a paragraph over, just pick up the phone and
have a verbal conversation to avoid miscommunicating what it is
(09:10):
that you're trying to communicate to the other person. It's
the receiving and the sending of the message. So the okay,
I hope everybody understands that. And I've communicated that, yep, clearly. Now.
The other thing I want to say is one cannot
not communicate everything we say. Everything we do is a
(09:30):
form of communication. Body language includes body language, your facial gestures,
your gestures with your non verbal self. Your physical gestures
are really important in communicating to someone and when we're
in the room with that person, we get all of
that and we are able to observe it, and we're
able to read the body language. If I'm texting, all
(09:52):
of that is missed and that adds to the miscommunication
of needs and expectations. Am I clear? I hope, I'm clear.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Well I even get to that point and we're going
to take a break here because we had the two
other m's.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yes coming up in just a bit.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
But you like with I'm with texting with my kids.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
My kids are twenty seven and twenty nine. Yeah, but
still because there's they're in that generation of texting. I said,
I stop this. Let's I'm going to call you right now.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I tell them I'm going to call you.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
And You're not the only one. Lots of parents are
like I sent this text to my son. It was
like so many lines that all he's all he wrote
back was kay, So I'm glad he knows the alphabet.
But that's not enough. We will be back at talking
about the other two ms after this break.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Everyone strives for healthier relationships. Here's more of Unbleep Your
Life and Relationships on news Talk eleven th wisn.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Welcome back, guys to Unbleep Your Life and Relationships. I'm
your host, Anita Astley. I am a licensed psychotherapist individual
couples and family therapy and in practice for a while,
and I recently came out with a book called Unbleep
Your Life and Relationships. You can get that on Amazon
and Simon and Schuster. When I'm not in studio here
(11:08):
and when I'm not doing therapy, I'm also on another
podcast called Unbleep Your Life and Relationships. It's not unbleep,
it's the other word that I can't say on here,
but you guys can google me. It is on Spotify.
Let's get back to we were talking about the three
ms before we went to break We covered the FIRSTM,
which was miscommunicating and how we need to be more
(11:30):
clear in communicating what our needs and expectations are because
I believe most people's problems in relationships is a function
in the breakdown. Well, it's a breakdown in the three ms.
The first one we just discussed miscommunication. The second one
is misinterpretation. Now what is misinterpretation? It is really the
(11:52):
action if I'm interpreting the message incorrectly something goes wrong
where you're saying thing and I think this is what
you're saying, so it's not the way that it was intended.
That happens. Often there's a misinterpretation of the communication. So
we need to be clear, and we need to do
(12:13):
a perceptual check with the other person. And I might
say to Greg, Greg, do you understand what I just
said to you? And you might say it back to
me and say, oh, did you mean this? And I
would say, oh, yeah, that's exactly what I meant. You
interpreted the information correctly. Often what happens is we jump
to conclusions, We make all kinds of assumptions about what
(12:34):
the person has said or done, and then we go
off into our own little narrative about, oh my god,
I'm so hurt he doesn't care about my needs and expectations.
He didn't meet my needs and expectations because this is
how they were interpreted. And some of the time when
there's a breakdown, and this is because we're not able
to do that, we feel uncomfortable saying, like I just
(12:55):
said to Greg, did you mean this or did you
mean that? That's asking and clarity that makes a lot
of sense. Yeah, we need to, and people often don't
do that. And again in text messaging, and you guys
might think, oh my god, Anita is really putting text
messaging today. I'm not. There's a time, there's a place
to use it. And it's amazing for having a quick response,
being specific with data and getting that information back like, hey,
(13:19):
we got to cancel the session, received, Yes, let's reschedule.
But when we're talking about our emotions and some of
our complicated thoughts which most of us have, or we're
trying to resolve something, there is too much room for
misinterpretation via a text message. So again going back to
a verbal communication with each other face to phase, if
(13:43):
not face to face, at least call the person so
you can have a conversation in which you can have
you can see clarity. I can ask you a question
and you can say okay, and you can ask me
another question. And we want to make sure that my
message to you is taken as I intended it to
be taken. So much of my time in session, I
(14:03):
tell you guys, and with people is spent helping people
to clarify because they'll say, well, you said this to
me or you sent this message to me, you did
this to me, and their interpretation is way off. And
the person will say, no, that's not how I meant
it at all. You took it the wrong way, and
they're like, well, I didn't take it the wrong way.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I talk here about using I languages, owning your stuff.
But my point is, do you see how we get
into other complications because it's misinterpreted and the way that
we're trying to communicate is part of the issue. The
medium that we are using. Again, if it's a problem
that you're trying to solve. And I started this segment
(14:44):
off by saying, I believe that most people's problems are
created in a relationship by the mismanagement of the three ms.
The first one was miscommunication, The second one here is
misinterpretation we're talking about the third one is mismanagement. What
is mismanagement? People think they know what it is, but
it's mismanagement in particular of needs and expectations. It's when
(15:08):
you know what the needs and expectations are, however there's
a breakdown in managing them. Does that make any sense?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So no?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Example, Yeah, well, if we have an agreement greg that
our financial picture is going to look like this, this
is how we are going to manage our finances. Okay,
you're in charge of that. And at the end of
the month I come to you and I say, so,
what happened? What does it look like? And you completely
don't manage them the way you didn't we agreed to
(15:38):
do Yeah, you didn't manage it the way we had
agreed to do it. There's a failure on your part,
even when you knew when we talked about them, we
were clear with them that this was supposed to happen. So,
mismanagement of needs and expectations in a relationship. I hear
that often Wait a minute, I told you this, we
talked about it, So what happened, And it's like, I
(16:01):
don't know what happened, but there is a mismanagement of
that expectation that needs to be talked about again. So, guys,
the three ms. I want you to really examine those
three ms in your relationship now. Often what I find
is there is no communication about the three ms. Right.
If we have that happened between us, I will say, well, Greg,
(16:22):
what happened. Rather than fighting about it, rather than accusing
you about it, attacking you about it, how you did this? Wrong,
and you did that wrong. I would say to you, Okay,
I thought we talked about this clearly. I wasn't clear
on you know, what I expected and needed from you
on this, on this financial part. So I think there's
a miscommunication and perhaps it was a misinterpretation of what
(16:44):
I said. We need we need to go back to
the drawing board so we can agree on what's going
to happen and we can manage those expectations where it's
mutually mutually satisfactory for you and of course for me.
And that then, of course that creates a huge if
it's not handled well, and if we don't talk about it,
what it does is it chips away at our emotional intimacy. Now,
(17:08):
if we have repeated scenarios in where there's a breakdown
in these three ms, I'm gonna eventually not really want
to talk to you anymore or really connect with you
except for on a very superficial level. And when that happens,
I'm not going to feel close to you. I hear
this often in my office from people. I don't feel
very close to my partner anymore. I feel very disconnected.
(17:33):
Only way he wants to connect or she wants to
connect with me is through physical intimacy, and I don't
want that anymore because if I can't talk to him,
if I can't share my needs and expectations, or he's
not even attempting to meet my needs and expectations, then
I don't want to be close to him. Slowly over time, guys,
if this is if our needs and expectations are mismanaged, miscommunicated,
(17:56):
and misinterpreted, there's going to be a breakdown in our
emotional intimacy. And emotional intimacy friends, is the cornerstone of
all healthy relationships, and people often think that emotional intimacy
is physical intimacy. It is not. It has nothing to
do with the physical part of it. Well it does.
I mean they do influence the other, but in definition
(18:19):
they are very different things. Emotional intimacy is the ability
and the willingness to be vulnerable in the relationship. It
is being emotionally naked with your partner, with your friends,
with your family members, and once that starts to dwindle,
I'm telling you it is something that I hear often
(18:40):
in my office today. Even through the questions that I hear,
people want to solve issues that can't be resolved or
even work towards If we don't start working on the
emotional intimacy of a relationship, you might think, Okay, I
don't feel that close, but you know, our sex life
is great, we still have great physical intimacy. But I
will tell you over time that will impact your physical intimacy,
(19:03):
and particularly for women, women will I don't you know,
often say to me I don't want to be physically
close to him because I don't feel emotionally close to him.
And then, of course men, you know, I hate to
stereotype a Stereotypes on are built on a certain amount
of truths, and in my experience clinically, that's usually a
wake up call. You know, the guy will say, hey,
(19:24):
how come you don't want to have sex with me?
Or I want to have sex more often and you don't,
and and the conversation will lead to, well, I don't
feel close to you. Eventually, it's not that I don't
want to be physical with you. I do, but I
don't emotionally feel close to you, and I need to
have that.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
So we started to to get emotional again.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Well it's and how do we get there? That's a
big question, but one of the things we need to
do is to be able to spend time with each
other and conversate, talk about verbally about how some of
the three ms. There's a breakdown in the three ms
in your relationship. And sometimes I work with people they
have never actually talked about their needs and expectations. A
(20:02):
lot of it based on assumptions, based on their nonverbal behavior.
You know, I've seen her or him do this, so
I'm guessing that's okay, and that's what they like. That's
all based on assumptions. And you know, I've worked with
people who are who've been married, and they've never talked
about their needs and expectations. Financially, there needs some expectations.
As a parent, there needs an expectations. Emotionally, there needs
(20:26):
an expectations physically. Sex is a big one. And you know,
I did do an episode, I will do another one.
And there's actually a question that I'm going to address
in the next session of this show when we're gonna
wrap it up. Of course, there's always questions about sex,
needs and expectations. It's this thing we want to talk about,
what we don't want to talk about because there's a
lot of a lot of a discomfort around that subject,
(20:47):
as is with money. I always say, you know, you're
really the test of your relationship. How healthy it is
in terms of these three ams is if you can
verbally talk about your sex life and the finances, the
two things. If you can't openly talk about them, guess
what you're gonna have problems in your relationship with the
(21:08):
three ms. You're laughing, Greg, what are you smirking? You
don't want to go there now? You don't want to
get in trouble. Okay, we will be discussing that more
when we come back after this break. Thanks guys.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Anita Ashley has more advice on how to Unbleep your
Life and Relationships on news Talk eleven thirty wys.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Hey, guys, welcome back to Unbleep Your Life and Relationships.
I'm your host, Anita Astley. I'm a psychotherapist of twenty
five years plus and the author of Unbleep Your Life
and Relationships. You can find the book on I'm Amazon
and Simon and Schuster. It is not unbleep, but I
can't say the word on here. Today we're talking about
feeling disconnected emotionally from your partner, and I talk about
(21:57):
the three ms, the breakdown in the three ms that
create that dynamic miscommunication, misinterpretation, and mismanagement of needs and expectations.
We all have needs and expectations and they all need
to be managed. They all need to be interpreted as communicated,
and we all need to communicate them clearly. Now, I
(22:17):
want to just say something before we get into the questions.
I have a lot of questions that people sent it
and I would try to get to all of them,
and I apologize if I don't get to yours. I
will try to address it in future sessions. But I
do appreciate the interaction and you guys, when I'm not
in studio and I'm not in session, you can find
me on Instagram. My handle is ask Anita, ask Lee's
(22:38):
feel free to DM me and if somehow you for
whatever reason, you're not on social media, which most people
are today, you can contact me through my website www
dot ask Anita, asklee dot com. I just want to
say before we get into into the questions. Nothing happens
in a vacuum. People often say, well, what does that mean.
(23:01):
I don't live in a vacuum. The relationships. I'm glad
you don't relationships are not linear, bi directional. There is
an action, there is a reaction, and there's a re
action to the reaction. Does that make any sense? Yeah,
what you do and what you say affects me, And
then i'm gon ac.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
So when people say to me it's not my fault,
it's her fault. It's not my fault, it's his fault,
I say, okay, well can we break away from the fault?
First of all, blaming your partner, it is really blaming
this third entity. And when I say that to people like,
what do you mean this third entity? This third entity
is the dynamic, the dance that you do with each
(23:44):
other when you're communicating. It's an entity of its own.
And I ask them, well do you do this with
your friends? Do you do this in your family? And
they will often say no, Actually, those communications go really well,
I don't have this issue that I have with you know,
my wife or partner that I have with my friend.
So I say, okay, So then you're a part of
(24:06):
this negative dynamic that you've created, and we have to
turn that around into a healthier dynamic that when I
react to you that it's not in a defensive manner,
but of course, my defensive reaction is based on the
way that you approach me. If I feel that you're
attacking me, of course I'm going to be defensive. But
(24:27):
if I feel you're concerned about me, then I'm going
to react in a very different manner. So we all
have a role in the way that dance that we
have between us is created, but also how it stays alive.
Does that make any chanscrict? Like if I come to
you with a problem, I can accuse you of it, Hey,
why did you do this? And as soon as we
use the word why. That's why I say to my
(24:49):
friends here, we have to drop that word. Yeah we can.
I can say to you, how come this happened? You know,
I'm a little bit concerned about it, and this is
how it makes me feel, rather than you did this.
I think you did it for why did you do that?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Why did you do that?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Actually have some compassion and always use eye language we
get you know, I've done a whole show on how
should we effectively communicate with one another? But I think
I need to do those kinds of shows regularly, because again,
people get into this accusatory dynamic with their partner and
this third entity that I'm speaking of today. It is
(25:24):
really created by both of you. It is not just
one Very rarely is it one person that brings something
that creates that dynamic. Because for me to feel a
certain way, you have had to act a certain way.
And I know people will say, well, she comes with
a history of this, and that's why she's interpreting it
(25:45):
that way. One of the three m's we talked about, Yeah,
I have a history. I come with baggage, and based
on what my history is, I am going to lean
towards maybe a positive interpretation of that situation, maybe a
negative interpretation of that situation. However, we just can't blame
it on the past. I'm also going to look at
(26:07):
what's going on between us, you know, so we're not
also tainted from our past. The past is the past,
and yeah, I can say a lot of people hang
on to that and say, well, I don't have a
choice that was my past, but you do have a
choice today. One of the things I'm going to address
later on if we have time today. But again, guys,
own your role in the communication, in your relationship and
the three ms. If it's not going well, first look
(26:30):
in the mirror and then have a conversation with your
partner that's not primarily via texting. Okay, all right, okay,
let's get on to the questions, because I do want
to get to them. Question number one, Anita, I have
been with my husband for twenty five years. We have
two adult children. I feel we have really drifted apart
(26:51):
since kids left the house. He does his own thing
and I do mine. We often have dinner with family
and friends, but rarely just the two of us, and
when we do, I have to admit it's kind of boring.
We have nothing to talk about. Before, at least we
talked about the kids, and now nothing. I love him,
but I'm emotionally starving. Any suggestions, Well, no, no, no,
(27:18):
that was part of her question. Do you have any suggestions, Anita,
I have a lot of suggestions. Well, it is linked
to what we were talking about today, and when people
talk about being emotionally starved, there are talking about the
lack of emotional intimacy, which I was just talking about
and I've talked about all the time in the show,
and I do repeat myself because I do think that
(27:40):
emotional intimacy is something that we all need to build
and maintain and nurture and develop in our relationships. So, Okay,
you've been married quite a while, it's normal in relationships
that are that long to be bored and run out
of things to talk about, especially when the kids have
left the house. When the kids leave, it is really
(28:00):
an adjustment. Even though you might be thinking, hooray, off
they go, right, there's a lot of mixed emotions that
come up when the kids leave, especially that last child,
that make you really look at your relationship and the
quality of your relationships. And it's not unusual for people
who have children to have neglected their relationship because it's
(28:22):
divide and conquers, especially if you have a large family.
You do one child, I'll do the other child, and
then we'll come together. And in the middle of that,
we miss we miss nurturing the relationship. But what happens
is very common to what this couple, this wife is experiencing,
that the gap just grows wider and wider and wider apart. Like,
(28:43):
think about it this way. Your wife is on the
one side, you're on the other side, and then you
have these kids in the middle, and that keeps you
busy for years and years and years and years, and
then the kids leave and then you kind of look
at each other polarized. Right, you still have this massive gap,
but you don't have the children to fill the gap
with all of their stuff, which kind of kept you
(29:05):
busy and kind of kept you going, but it also
nurtured and fed the distance if you don't do anything
about it, and seems like, you know, this couple was
struggling with that, so it's common for this to happen.
What I would say to you is start. First of all,
I always say everything starts with a conversation, So every
question that I address on this show without having to
(29:26):
say it each time, but today I will say it,
everything starts with a conversation. If we can't truly talk
about what we're thinking and what we're feeling, especially what
we're struggling with, then it's very difficult to resolve those problems,
and that conversation has to be face to face. I
can tell you and text you Greg hey, tomorrow, I
want to talk about some of the struggles we're having
(29:47):
in this relationship. You might text me back and say, well,
why don't Oh, okay, why don't you tell me? Why
don't you text me what those are Your part is
going to be to avoid what I just talked about, miscommunication, misinterpretation,
and mismanage, is to say to you, this is going
to be my part, so I don't blame you for
this dynamic. I'll say no, I'd like to talk to
you in person about that because it's really important. There's
(30:10):
so many things to discuss, and then hoping that your
reaction to that will be okay, let's talk tomorrow at twelve.
But if you get some resistance, if you said to me, no, no, no,
tell me it's easier if you just text me, I'm
going to get mad and I'm going to say, well
never mind. I might just drop that and say never mind.
You're so not interested in this and you don't realize
(30:30):
how much I need to talk to you. Then again,
we're this is just going to escalate, and what's going
to happen is we are just going to grow more
and more distant apart. So thank you for your question. First,
have this conversation with your partner. Think about what it
is that you need and expect at this stage in
your life. Yeah, you're at a later stage in life
(30:50):
and working on the relationships requires you spending time together.
So the first thing you can do is spend time
with your partner having this conversation and also minimize some
of those dinners that you're having with other people. You know,
we can use together just we use the kids as buffers,
and then you know, and we're lacking emotional intimacy and
(31:13):
we don't feel comfortable with our partner anymore. We fill
that gap with family and friend time. And that's health.
It's good to have family and friend time. But when
you're kind of using them as to replace the children
as buffers because you don't really want to look at
each other, you don't really want to confront some of
the issues you're having, it's problematic. So that's one of
the other things I would tell you to do is
(31:34):
to look at your social time together and get some
of that social time reduced to where you actually prioritize yourself,
the couple shop, couple ships. Sorry, I'll come back to
giving a little bit more a couple of more tips
after we come back from this break.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Back to Unbleep your Life and Relationships on News Talk
eleven thirty wyss.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Hey, guys, welcome back to Unbleep your Life and Relationships.
I'm your host, Anita Ashley. We were just talking about
helping a couple grow closer together after the kids have left.
Thank you so much for your question. One of my
fathers on Instagram sent me this question about feeling disconnected
from her husband of twenty five years, feeling more and
(32:22):
more disconnected because they just launched the last child into
the world, and talking about how the dynamics have shifted,
but in some ways remain the same. They've just filled
that gap up that the kids filled with their friends
and their family time. And I was just saying, Okay,
we need to reduce that, get some more couple time in.
(32:43):
But you, you know, and your husband might be resistant
to that because you've fallen into this pattern of not
spending a lot of time together. So a conversation needs
to be had. We need to evaluate the needs and
expectations at this point in time, and trust me, they
have changed. You're not that young people who married and
didn't have children all that kind of stuff. And I
want to say, needs and expectations change over time. That's healthy,
(33:07):
that's normal. What you expected at the age of twenty
is very different to what you expect at the age
of fifty. However, we don't often talk about the different
needs and expectations, a different evolution of our needs and expectations.
And again the three ms. The breakdown in the three ms,
the miscommunication around needs and expectations, the mismanagement of needs
(33:30):
and expectations, and of course the misinterpretation of needs and expectations.
But get back to the table. Have an open and
honest conversation, because emotional intimacy is built around having an
open and honest conversation. If you're just saying what you
think your partner wants to hear, what will make him
(33:50):
or her happy, that's not being true to the relationship,
and that's not going to help you to build a
nurture and develop your needs and expectations. As this person said,
I'm emotionally starving. You're emotionally starving, and the only way
you're going to feed that hunger to be close to
your person is if you're able to freely and openly
(34:13):
talk to them. And I want to say to you,
a friend, who send me this question, I'm sure you
guys listening out there can relate to this because I
will say again and again and again, we are very
we are the most connected in society today globally, but
we are the least connected emotionally. It is a problem
that I hear about all the time in my office
(34:35):
all the time. Is not an exaggeration. Connections are vital
as for us as human beings. We are social creatures,
but intimate connections are vital to our existence and to
our happiness, our contentment, that's the word I like to use,
and we do. If we don't get it, we're starving
for it, and then we start doing other things that
impact the relationship in a negative way. And lots of
(34:57):
people out there listening to this I know struggling with this.
But the only way to combat it is to be
able to say, Okay, look in the mirror like this
woman has done. She says, I'm emotionally starving. Ask yourself,
how nurtured are you emotionally? We fill our bodies with food.
We nurture our physical self, but we need to nurture
(35:18):
and fill our emotional self with the ingredients that are
the food that's going to make us most happy and
fulfilled in our relationship. Most of the time, and sometimes,
of course, we're going to feel a little bit like
an emotion that's not the problems when overall we're feeling
a lack of connection to our partner. It's vital and
that changes throughout life, you know what. Again, like I said,
(35:38):
what I needed when I was twenty is very different
to what I need right now, And of course that
changes my children, our launch, and that's going to change
my needs and expectations. I need to be able to
communicate them in a way that's clear. And then when
when my partner knows about them, then he or she
needs to you know, I'm not you're biased, dear. That's fine, Okay,
(35:58):
Can I edit that out?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Just keep going, Okay. I need to be able to
first communicate them clearly. I need to make sure that
they're managed well, both of us will be in check
and responsible for that, and that there's not a misinterpretation
of that. And I keep repeating the three MS because
it's vital to understanding them with regards to your person's
(36:20):
needs and expectations. It's vital. It's even at work. Like
imagine you go to work and there's a breakdown in
your three MS. Guess why your boss is gonna come
in and say, hey, wait a minute, Greg, you're not
You're not meeting the needs and expectations of your role.
What are we gonna do about it?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
So don't but don't say to your husband I'm emotional
start emotionally starving, because that's probably a bad way to
start that off.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Well, he might not know what that means. Yeah, he
might right away. I'm thinking he might not know what
that means. So I would use language like I don't
feel close. I feel like there's a disconnect. You know,
I do my thing, you do your thing, But what
is our thing? Our thing used to be the chilldren.
But now the children are young adults and they've gone,
(37:03):
and they kind of fulfill that part of myself that
was emotionally which I recognize now emotionally starving, because as
moms we do that, we nurture our souls and our
bodies with our kids. We do as a mom, I
can speak to that. But when they go, I remember
experiencing this myself. I thought, now, what right this part
of myself that is empty? What am I gonna do
(37:25):
with it? And people will say, well, emptiness syndrome. It's
not that, it's like it fulfilled a part of us,
and what are we gonna do with that? Part. We
nurture it, we want to grow it individually, but also
as a couple, because if we go on our individual
paths that's going to lead to divorce. We're not going
to come back together, or we're just gonna be stuck
in a very disconnected, emotionally hungry marriage. And I'll tell
(37:46):
you if an friend who wrote this message to me,
I'm gonna say to you, you're feeling this way, I
bet your partner is also feeling this way. They just
have not brought it to your attention. They're keeping that
to themselves, and they're getting that need and expectation met
somewhere else, sublimating through you know, working out a lot,
(38:08):
you know, hanging out with the guys, playing whatever it
is that they're doing. But clearly they're doing something else
to get that part of the relationship met. Because I
tell you something, when there's one unhappy, for unfulfilled partner,
there is usually another one. But the expression of that
is very different. Men and women express that differently, And
just because he's not saying that to you doesn't mean
(38:29):
that he's fully satisfied either. Hopefully that will help you.
Those are some tips that you can take away about
more question. Okay, yeah, I do. Let me. Let me
get to this question, and if I can't answer it fully,
I'll have another Q in a next week. Okay, Anita,
I listened to your show on election anxiety. Oh yeah,
(38:52):
I listened to your seanie on election anxiety. I loved it.
Thank you for sharing. I definitely relate to some of
the things you talked about. I need help. My husband
and I are on two different sides. I'm okay with it,
but he feels the need to tell me that I'm wrong,
and we often fight about it. What should I do? Okay,
(39:13):
go ahead, Greg, I want to.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Hear your answer here.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Well, first, I'm going to say this, there's no well
fighting about it. We want to have a conversation. So
I would if I were you, I would say to him,
if that was you, if this was you and I Greg,
I would say, Greg, we need to have a talk
about this. You believe in this, I believe in this,
and we are married to each other. If we're going
(39:40):
to have a healthy relationship, the two different identities need
to coexist, meaning you have your beliefs about this. I
have mine, and that needs to be okay in this relationship.
I don't need you to shove down my throat what
I should feel about anything. In particular, we're talking about
the election. The election, I'm allowed to have my own identity.
(40:03):
I'm not an extension of who you are. You're not
an extension of who I am. So we need to
have that boundary. We are either going to have a
respectful conversation or we're going to agree not to talk
about this subject.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Agree to not to do agree agreed not.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
To agree, and agree not to talk about it, because
if you're going to be disrespectful and you know from me,
I'm reading this question a fighting about politics and whether
you're blue, red, whatever. You know, it's a common thing.
We hear about it all the time, right, but we
don't talk about the mental health aspect of the stress
that it causes. I was talking to somebody about the
election and this we can't talk about it. We just
(40:42):
want to focus on who's going to win, who's going
to lose, And I'm thinking, what do you mean we
can't talk about the mental health aspect of what's going
on politically in our country with the attempted assassination. All
of that stuff has an impact on us, not only
just the people involve. We viewed it, we observed it,
we had a reaction to it, and guess what, that's
(41:04):
in our minds. That's a part of our mental health.
It's like we put it aside as if that doesn't matter,
we just focus on what the outcome is going to
be of this election. Well, guess what in the midst
of all of this, there is a mental health aspect
of it. And this is very uncommon I see people
fighting over stuff like this except the fact that we
(41:25):
have different opinions. We have different views, and we need
to be able to engage in a healthy discourse in
a couple ship. Also, you know, wherever you are at
a party, when I see that happening, I'm like, oh
my gosh. This person, the person who's needing to do this.
They're very insecure in actually what they think and what
they feel about it because they have this need to
(41:47):
make everybody else come to their side. When a person
has a strong sense of identity, a strong sense of self,
they don't need to convince anybody else of anything else.
They are confident in their belief system. They have a
healthy dialogue about it, and they walk away and I'll
tell you something your husband sounds like he's not very
(42:09):
secure in himself. He doesn't have a solid sense of identity,
and he's trying to make you believe something maybe, and
in that he's trying to also somehow convince himself that
he's right and you're wrong. Now that's a whole new show.
We're gonna do the right and wrong dance. But I'll
tell you, in a relationship, it doesn't turn out too
well when you're polarized in those positions. I like to
(42:31):
use the word and help people adopt the word. We
are different, we have different views, we have different opinions,
and differences in our relationship are healthy. They make the relationship.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Interesting, very good stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I don't want a replication of myself as much as
I you know, like myself, love myself, whatever, But I
don't want that. That's not interesting. I actually want somebody
who has a strong opinion. But it's because I'm confident
too in who I am. It took a lot of
time to get here, but I'm confident. I don't need that.
I'm very respectful. If you're voting for Trump, I'm voting
for Trump, or I'm voting for somebody else. What does
(43:07):
it matter. I have to respect you as a human
being and respect me as a human being, and in
a household that has to exist, guys. And I know
that a lot of people are going through this right
now because I observe it at parties and I hear
it in my office and I get all kinds of
messages about it. Respect are right and need to be different.
(43:27):
We are different in that.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
How do we get a hold of you? I want
to ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Please send me a message on ask Anita. Ask Lee's
my social media. You can also get a hold of
me through my website, which is www Askanita Assley dot com.
I just want to thank everyone for listening to me
today tuning in and if I didn't get to your question,
I promise I'll get to it next week. Until next time,
(43:51):
take care of your mental health as well as your physical. Bye, guys,
Relationships, whether romantic, platonic, familial, are complicated and can be
downright MESSI bringing out the best and worst in all
of us. Here's an opportunity for you to learn effective,
concrete strategies to help you build healthy relationships from the
inside out. It's on Bleep Your Life and Relationships with
(00:21):
host Anita Ashland, psychotherapist of over twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Unbleep Your Life
and Relationships. I'm your host, Anita Asley, psychotherapist of over
twenty five years and published author of Unbleep Your Life
and Relationships. The book can be found on Amazon and
Simon and Schuster. If you guys are new to the show,
I talk about all things relational and mental health as
(00:49):
a psychotherapist, working with individuals, couples, and families, and just
going through life myself. I'll tell you something. Relationships can
be complicated, Well maybe not, can they are comp Let's
just say that they are complicated, And I just want
to say that relationships is not exclusive to romantic relationships.
(01:10):
Relationships mean the relationship you have primarily with yourself. Yes,
we have one chapter one self awareness, the relationship with
that we have with our families, with our friends, with
our peers. They are way beyond the romantic one that
we tend to think about now. They are inherently, as
I said, complicated in our influence by myriad of factors.
(01:34):
Relationships just can make people feel the best of emotions
and also the worst of emotions. And really, for me,
I've been thinking about this, you know, I often think
about what is it that I can do to help
people navigate their relationships, what kind of skills I can
share with them, and also bring into my own history
(01:55):
and my own life about some of the complications I've
experienced myself personally in relationships. We are gonna I have
a quick Q and A Today. A lot of people
sending questions and comments to my social media asking me
to ask Lee. I appreciate that, guys. I do like
the interaction. We're gonna have Collins soon. Sometimes the time
(02:16):
that we record the show in the morning is not
I know, some of you called me and said, you know,
if you did the show later, it'd be easier. You're
all working way, which we all need to do. We
need to work. But anyway, I have some questions that
I think will help you know, you might have not
sent in the question, but I think you might relate
to it and it might help you. But before we
get on with that, I want to welcome back Greg
(02:37):
Is back our studio with me in all good healths.
I missed him, Oh yeah, because we got Yeah, our
relationship are working together, was going really well that I
had to build one with Andrew and you's a good kid.
He's a great kid, and we had to, you know,
to talk about what's needed and what's expected on both sides,
leading into what we're going to talk about today, the
(02:58):
three m's relationships. Now you might be thinking, what does
that mean? What are these three m's? Has nothing to
do with Eminem's all right? Not so funny? Okay, my
kids will tea.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I want M and ms right now.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
My kids always say, Mom, you're not that funny. I
know you think you are, but hey, I try right. So,
as you know, and as I've said before on this show,
if you have tuned into my other sessions, I always
think of the show as sessions, So excuse me if
I use that term. It is not a therapy session.
But I just like the word. And most of my
(03:31):
time when I'm not in studio, I am in sessions.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Well, honest with you, this is kind of my session
because I learned so much from you. Every week, think
I bring it back home to tell my wife thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
She's gonna come in and tell me what are you
teaching Greg? What are you doing to him? But anyway,
maybe I will just start referring to this as sessions
and I won't get any trouble from anybody else. Getting
back to the nature of relationships. Now, we are very similar.
I believe we're very similar in what our needs and
expectations are, but different in that how we speak of them,
(04:06):
how we manage them, and so forth. Helping me get
back to what I started talking about, are the three ms.
Most relational problems I believe are a function of the
three ms. The first m's mismanaged needs and expectations, miscommunicated
(04:27):
needs and expectations, and misinterpreted needs and expectations. I'm sure
you guys listening out there can relate to this. I'm
just giving you the lingo. Sometimes part of it is,
you know, listening to the show and being in session
with my patients is helping them to have words that
match their feelings what they're struggling with. Again the three ms. Now,
(04:50):
what do I really mean by that? Okay, let's unpack it.
Let's start with miscommunicated needs and expectations. Now, we talk
about miscommunication often, we hear that word often. What does
it really mean? It is really when we are sending
a message to someone and then we are receiving a message,
we're receiving a message from someone, and when we miscommunicate,
(05:14):
there's a failure to communicate clearly. And especially today, there's
so many different ways that people communicate with each other
that has added to the complexity of communication. Right. I've
talked about this a million times and I will continue
to talk about it because most of the people I
work with today, their primary mode of communicating is via
(05:36):
text messaging. And I want everybody today to hear this
loud and clearly, and I don't want to miscommunicate my message.
Let me be clear when you're trying to resolve an issue,
When you're trying to resolve a problem, I really believe
personally but mostly professionally from listening to people for so long,
(05:58):
especially in the last decade, we need to have a
face to face conversation today. I know when I hear
the word conversation. Well, I know now. I used to
think it was the way I communicated. Most people communicated,
which is through language, through words, to sitting with each other,
(06:19):
hearing the voice and so forth. Now it's primarily through
the words on a screen. So much room for miscommunicating.
And I tell people listen, I love text messages. It's
a great way to get some information very quickly, but
it is not the best way to communicate about a
problem that you're having. Now you can communicate to your partner,
(06:42):
say twelve o'clock tomorrow, I would like to talk about
some of the issues that we're struggling with. Perfect It's great,
but don't start writing a paragraph, don't start writing a book.
And this is what I help people with today. Often
when they say conversation to me, now it generally means
it is via texting. And my first job, I believe,
(07:05):
is to help them go back to the basics, which is,
let's have a verbal conversation with each other, face to face.
Why so we can minimize some of the miscommunication around
our needs and expectations. That's the first M. We gotta
unbleep that M. Because I do think in light of
(07:27):
all this amazing stuff about ecommunication. There's a lot of
stuff that is not that amazing, and it creates you
try to solve one problem, it creates another problem. I've
had that happen to myself. I'm trying to communicate clearly
to somebody over texting about an emotional issue that's going on,
and that, in my experience, goes sideways and I pick
(07:48):
up the phone, I call the person and I can
just see if my daughters in their room. She's like,
oh Mom, that's the biggest faux pas. You can't do that.
I'm like, what are you talking about? You cannot return
reply to a text message via a phone call? What
are you doing? And I said, well, I'm trying to
clearly communicate because what I've said so far has been miscommunicated,
(08:10):
I think, and I'm not going to go back and
forth a million times to clear this up.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
We're very frustrating emojis too, they said, when they start
setting emojis like go okay, the thumbs.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Up means what, yeah, what are you saying?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Is it good?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Or is it yeah? Sure? You're right because a heart
you can't miscommunicate that. But if you give give me
a thumbs up, to several things I've said in the message, Yes,
and I've had It's funny you say that because I
had that happen recently. I'm like, Okay, wait a minute,
are you saying thumbs up to the first part of
my message, the last part of my message or the
(08:43):
middle part? I'm not sure. It's not clear to me.
So then I, you know, have to go back and
forth with you. And then it's this whole thing, right
if we just set it to each other. And I
know that sometimes we don't have time for that phone call,
but if it's something that you're going to have to
write a paragraph over, just pick up the phone and
have a verbal conversation to avoid miscommunicating what it is
(09:10):
that you're trying to communicate to the other person. It's
the receiving and the sending of the message. So the okay,
I hope everybody understands that. And I've communicated that, yep, clearly. Now.
The other thing I want to say is one cannot
not communicate everything we say. Everything we do is a
(09:30):
form of communication. Body language includes body language, your facial gestures,
your gestures with your non verbal self. Your physical gestures
are really important in communicating to someone and when we're
in the room with that person, we get all of
that and we are able to observe it, and we're
able to read the body language. If I'm texting, all
(09:52):
of that is missed and that adds to the miscommunication
of needs and expectations. Am I clear? I hope, I'm clear.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Well I even get to that point and we're going
to take a break here because we had the two
other m's.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yes coming up in just a bit.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
But you like with I'm with texting with my kids.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
My kids are twenty seven and twenty nine. Yeah, but
still because there's they're in that generation of texting. I said,
I stop this. Let's I'm going to call you right now.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I tell them I'm going to call you.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
And You're not the only one. Lots of parents are
like I sent this text to my son. It was
like so many lines that all he's all he wrote
back was kay, So I'm glad he knows the alphabet.
But that's not enough. We will be back at talking
about the other two ms after this break.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Everyone strives for healthier relationships. Here's more of Unbleep Your
Life and Relationships on news Talk eleven th wisn.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Welcome back, guys to Unbleep Your Life and Relationships. I'm
your host, Anita Astley. I am a licensed psychotherapist individual
couples and family therapy and in practice for a while,
and I recently came out with a book called Unbleep
Your Life and Relationships. You can get that on Amazon
and Simon and Schuster. When I'm not in studio here
(11:08):
and when I'm not doing therapy, I'm also on another
podcast called Unbleep Your Life and Relationships. It's not unbleep,
it's the other word that I can't say on here,
but you guys can google me. It is on Spotify.
Let's get back to we were talking about the three
ms before we went to break We covered the FIRSTM,
which was miscommunicating and how we need to be more
(11:30):
clear in communicating what our needs and expectations are because
I believe most people's problems in relationships is a function
in the breakdown. Well, it's a breakdown in the three ms.
The first one we just discussed miscommunication. The second one
is misinterpretation. Now what is misinterpretation? It is really the
(11:52):
action if I'm interpreting the message incorrectly something goes wrong
where you're saying thing and I think this is what
you're saying, so it's not the way that it was intended.
That happens. Often there's a misinterpretation of the communication. So
we need to be clear, and we need to do
(12:13):
a perceptual check with the other person. And I might
say to Greg, Greg, do you understand what I just
said to you? And you might say it back to
me and say, oh, did you mean this? And I
would say, oh, yeah, that's exactly what I meant. You
interpreted the information correctly. Often what happens is we jump
to conclusions, We make all kinds of assumptions about what
(12:34):
the person has said or done, and then we go
off into our own little narrative about, oh my god,
I'm so hurt he doesn't care about my needs and expectations.
He didn't meet my needs and expectations because this is
how they were interpreted. And some of the time when
there's a breakdown, and this is because we're not able
to do that, we feel uncomfortable saying, like I just
(12:55):
said to Greg, did you mean this or did you
mean that? That's asking and clarity that makes a lot
of sense. Yeah, we need to, and people often don't
do that. And again in text messaging, and you guys
might think, oh my god, Anita is really putting text
messaging today. I'm not. There's a time, there's a place
to use it. And it's amazing for having a quick response,
being specific with data and getting that information back like, hey,
(13:19):
we got to cancel the session, received, Yes, let's reschedule.
But when we're talking about our emotions and some of
our complicated thoughts which most of us have, or we're
trying to resolve something, there is too much room for
misinterpretation via a text message. So again going back to
a verbal communication with each other face to phase, if
(13:43):
not face to face, at least call the person so
you can have a conversation in which you can have
you can see clarity. I can ask you a question
and you can say okay, and you can ask me
another question. And we want to make sure that my
message to you is taken as I intended it to
be taken. So much of my time in session, I
(14:03):
tell you guys, and with people is spent helping people
to clarify because they'll say, well, you said this to
me or you sent this message to me, you did
this to me, and their interpretation is way off. And
the person will say, no, that's not how I meant
it at all. You took it the wrong way, and
they're like, well, I didn't take it the wrong way.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I talk here about using I languages, owning your stuff.
But my point is, do you see how we get
into other complications because it's misinterpreted and the way that
we're trying to communicate is part of the issue. The
medium that we are using. Again, if it's a problem
that you're trying to solve. And I started this segment
(14:44):
off by saying, I believe that most people's problems are
created in a relationship by the mismanagement of the three ms.
The first one was miscommunication, The second one here is
misinterpretation we're talking about the third one is mismanagement. What
is mismanagement? People think they know what it is, but
it's mismanagement in particular of needs and expectations. It's when
(15:08):
you know what the needs and expectations are, however there's
a breakdown in managing them. Does that make any sense?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So no?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Example, Yeah, well, if we have an agreement greg that
our financial picture is going to look like this, this
is how we are going to manage our finances. Okay,
you're in charge of that. And at the end of
the month I come to you and I say, so,
what happened? What does it look like? And you completely
don't manage them the way you didn't we agreed to
(15:38):
do Yeah, you didn't manage it the way we had
agreed to do it. There's a failure on your part,
even when you knew when we talked about them, we
were clear with them that this was supposed to happen. So,
mismanagement of needs and expectations in a relationship. I hear
that often Wait a minute, I told you this, we
talked about it, So what happened, And it's like, I
(16:01):
don't know what happened, but there is a mismanagement of
that expectation that needs to be talked about again. So, guys,
the three ms. I want you to really examine those
three ms in your relationship now. Often what I find
is there is no communication about the three ms. Right.
If we have that happened between us, I will say, well, Greg,
(16:22):
what happened. Rather than fighting about it, rather than accusing
you about it, attacking you about it, how you did this? Wrong,
and you did that wrong. I would say to you, Okay,
I thought we talked about this clearly. I wasn't clear
on you know, what I expected and needed from you
on this, on this financial part. So I think there's
a miscommunication and perhaps it was a misinterpretation of what
(16:44):
I said. We need we need to go back to
the drawing board so we can agree on what's going
to happen and we can manage those expectations where it's
mutually mutually satisfactory for you and of course for me.
And that then, of course that creates a huge if
it's not handled well, and if we don't talk about it,
what it does is it chips away at our emotional intimacy. Now,
(17:08):
if we have repeated scenarios in where there's a breakdown
in these three ms, I'm gonna eventually not really want
to talk to you anymore or really connect with you
except for on a very superficial level. And when that happens,
I'm not going to feel close to you. I hear
this often in my office from people. I don't feel
very close to my partner anymore. I feel very disconnected.
(17:33):
Only way he wants to connect or she wants to
connect with me is through physical intimacy, and I don't
want that anymore because if I can't talk to him,
if I can't share my needs and expectations, or he's
not even attempting to meet my needs and expectations, then
I don't want to be close to him. Slowly over time, guys,
if this is if our needs and expectations are mismanaged, miscommunicated,
(17:56):
and misinterpreted, there's going to be a breakdown in our
emotional intimacy. And emotional intimacy friends, is the cornerstone of
all healthy relationships, and people often think that emotional intimacy
is physical intimacy. It is not. It has nothing to
do with the physical part of it. Well it does.
I mean they do influence the other, but in definition
(18:19):
they are very different things. Emotional intimacy is the ability
and the willingness to be vulnerable in the relationship. It
is being emotionally naked with your partner, with your friends,
with your family members, and once that starts to dwindle,
I'm telling you it is something that I hear often
(18:40):
in my office today. Even through the questions that I hear,
people want to solve issues that can't be resolved or
even work towards If we don't start working on the
emotional intimacy of a relationship, you might think, Okay, I
don't feel that close, but you know, our sex life
is great, we still have great physical intimacy. But I
will tell you over time that will impact your physical intimacy,
(19:03):
and particularly for women, women will I don't you know,
often say to me I don't want to be physically
close to him because I don't feel emotionally close to him.
And then, of course men, you know, I hate to
stereotype a Stereotypes on are built on a certain amount
of truths, and in my experience clinically, that's usually a
wake up call. You know, the guy will say, hey,
(19:24):
how come you don't want to have sex with me?
Or I want to have sex more often and you don't,
and and the conversation will lead to, well, I don't
feel close to you. Eventually, it's not that I don't
want to be physical with you. I do, but I
don't emotionally feel close to you, and I need to
have that.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
So we started to to get emotional again.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Well it's and how do we get there? That's a
big question, but one of the things we need to
do is to be able to spend time with each
other and conversate, talk about verbally about how some of
the three ms. There's a breakdown in the three ms
in your relationship. And sometimes I work with people they
have never actually talked about their needs and expectations. A
(20:02):
lot of it based on assumptions, based on their nonverbal behavior.
You know, I've seen her or him do this, so
I'm guessing that's okay, and that's what they like. That's
all based on assumptions. And you know, I've worked with
people who are who've been married, and they've never talked
about their needs and expectations. Financially, there needs some expectations.
As a parent, there needs an expectations. Emotionally, there needs
(20:26):
an expectations physically. Sex is a big one. And you know,
I did do an episode, I will do another one.
And there's actually a question that I'm going to address
in the next session of this show when we're gonna
wrap it up. Of course, there's always questions about sex,
needs and expectations. It's this thing we want to talk about,
what we don't want to talk about because there's a
lot of a lot of a discomfort around that subject,
(20:47):
as is with money. I always say, you know, you're
really the test of your relationship. How healthy it is
in terms of these three ams is if you can
verbally talk about your sex life and the finances, the
two things. If you can't openly talk about them, guess
what you're gonna have problems in your relationship with the
(21:08):
three ms. You're laughing, Greg, what are you smirking? You
don't want to go there now? You don't want to
get in trouble. Okay, we will be discussing that more
when we come back after this break. Thanks guys.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Anita Ashley has more advice on how to Unbleep your
Life and Relationships on news Talk eleven thirty wys.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Hey, guys, welcome back to Unbleep Your Life and Relationships.
I'm your host, Anita Astley. I'm a psychotherapist of twenty
five years plus and the author of Unbleep Your Life
and Relationships. You can find the book on I'm Amazon
and Simon and Schuster. It is not unbleep, but I
can't say the word on here. Today we're talking about
feeling disconnected emotionally from your partner, and I talk about
(21:57):
the three ms, the breakdown in the three ms that
create that dynamic miscommunication, misinterpretation, and mismanagement of needs and expectations.
We all have needs and expectations and they all need
to be managed. They all need to be interpreted as communicated,
and we all need to communicate them clearly. Now, I
(22:17):
want to just say something before we get into the questions.
I have a lot of questions that people sent it
and I would try to get to all of them,
and I apologize if I don't get to yours. I
will try to address it in future sessions. But I
do appreciate the interaction and you guys, when I'm not
in studio and I'm not in session, you can find
me on Instagram. My handle is ask Anita, ask Lee's
(22:38):
feel free to DM me and if somehow you for
whatever reason, you're not on social media, which most people
are today, you can contact me through my website www
dot ask Anita, asklee dot com. I just want to
say before we get into into the questions. Nothing happens
in a vacuum. People often say, well, what does that mean.
(23:01):
I don't live in a vacuum. The relationships. I'm glad
you don't relationships are not linear, bi directional. There is
an action, there is a reaction, and there's a re
action to the reaction. Does that make any sense? Yeah,
what you do and what you say affects me, And
then i'm gon ac.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
So when people say to me it's not my fault,
it's her fault. It's not my fault, it's his fault,
I say, okay, well can we break away from the fault?
First of all, blaming your partner, it is really blaming
this third entity. And when I say that to people like,
what do you mean this third entity? This third entity
is the dynamic, the dance that you do with each
(23:44):
other when you're communicating. It's an entity of its own.
And I ask them, well do you do this with
your friends? Do you do this in your family? And
they will often say no, Actually, those communications go really well,
I don't have this issue that I have with you know,
my wife or partner that I have with my friend.
So I say, okay, So then you're a part of
(24:06):
this negative dynamic that you've created, and we have to
turn that around into a healthier dynamic that when I
react to you that it's not in a defensive manner,
but of course, my defensive reaction is based on the
way that you approach me. If I feel that you're
attacking me, of course I'm going to be defensive. But
(24:27):
if I feel you're concerned about me, then I'm going
to react in a very different manner. So we all
have a role in the way that dance that we
have between us is created, but also how it stays alive.
Does that make any chanscrict? Like if I come to
you with a problem, I can accuse you of it, Hey,
why did you do this? And as soon as we
use the word why. That's why I say to my
(24:49):
friends here, we have to drop that word. Yeah we can.
I can say to you, how come this happened? You know,
I'm a little bit concerned about it, and this is
how it makes me feel, rather than you did this.
I think you did it for why did you do that?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Why did you do that?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Actually have some compassion and always use eye language we
get you know, I've done a whole show on how
should we effectively communicate with one another? But I think
I need to do those kinds of shows regularly, because again,
people get into this accusatory dynamic with their partner and
this third entity that I'm speaking of today. It is
(25:24):
really created by both of you. It is not just
one Very rarely is it one person that brings something
that creates that dynamic. Because for me to feel a
certain way, you have had to act a certain way.
And I know people will say, well, she comes with
a history of this, and that's why she's interpreting it
(25:45):
that way. One of the three m's we talked about, Yeah,
I have a history. I come with baggage, and based
on what my history is, I am going to lean
towards maybe a positive interpretation of that situation, maybe a
negative interpretation of that situation. However, we just can't blame
it on the past. I'm also going to look at
(26:07):
what's going on between us, you know, so we're not
also tainted from our past. The past is the past,
and yeah, I can say a lot of people hang
on to that and say, well, I don't have a
choice that was my past, but you do have a
choice today. One of the things I'm going to address
later on if we have time today. But again, guys,
own your role in the communication, in your relationship and
the three ms. If it's not going well, first look
(26:30):
in the mirror and then have a conversation with your
partner that's not primarily via texting. Okay, all right, okay,
let's get on to the questions, because I do want
to get to them. Question number one, Anita, I have
been with my husband for twenty five years. We have
two adult children. I feel we have really drifted apart
(26:51):
since kids left the house. He does his own thing
and I do mine. We often have dinner with family
and friends, but rarely just the two of us, and
when we do, I have to admit it's kind of boring.
We have nothing to talk about. Before, at least we
talked about the kids, and now nothing. I love him,
but I'm emotionally starving. Any suggestions, Well, no, no, no,
(27:18):
that was part of her question. Do you have any suggestions, Anita,
I have a lot of suggestions. Well, it is linked
to what we were talking about today, and when people
talk about being emotionally starved, there are talking about the
lack of emotional intimacy, which I was just talking about
and I've talked about all the time in the show,
and I do repeat myself because I do think that
(27:40):
emotional intimacy is something that we all need to build
and maintain and nurture and develop in our relationships. So, Okay,
you've been married quite a while, it's normal in relationships
that are that long to be bored and run out
of things to talk about, especially when the kids have
left the house. When the kids leave, it is really
(28:00):
an adjustment. Even though you might be thinking, hooray, off
they go, right, there's a lot of mixed emotions that
come up when the kids leave, especially that last child,
that make you really look at your relationship and the
quality of your relationships. And it's not unusual for people
who have children to have neglected their relationship because it's
(28:22):
divide and conquers, especially if you have a large family.
You do one child, I'll do the other child, and
then we'll come together. And in the middle of that,
we miss we miss nurturing the relationship. But what happens
is very common to what this couple, this wife is experiencing,
that the gap just grows wider and wider and wider apart. Like,
(28:43):
think about it this way. Your wife is on the
one side, you're on the other side, and then you
have these kids in the middle, and that keeps you
busy for years and years and years and years, and
then the kids leave and then you kind of look
at each other polarized. Right, you still have this massive gap,
but you don't have the children to fill the gap
with all of their stuff, which kind of kept you
(29:05):
busy and kind of kept you going, but it also
nurtured and fed the distance if you don't do anything
about it, and seems like, you know, this couple was
struggling with that, so it's common for this to happen.
What I would say to you is start. First of all,
I always say everything starts with a conversation, So every
question that I address on this show without having to
(29:26):
say it each time, but today I will say it,
everything starts with a conversation. If we can't truly talk
about what we're thinking and what we're feeling, especially what
we're struggling with, then it's very difficult to resolve those problems,
and that conversation has to be face to face. I
can tell you and text you Greg hey, tomorrow, I
want to talk about some of the struggles we're having
(29:47):
in this relationship. You might text me back and say, well,
why don't Oh, okay, why don't you tell me? Why
don't you text me what those are Your part is
going to be to avoid what I just talked about, miscommunication, misinterpretation,
and mismanage, is to say to you, this is going
to be my part, so I don't blame you for
this dynamic. I'll say no, I'd like to talk to
you in person about that because it's really important. There's
(30:10):
so many things to discuss, and then hoping that your
reaction to that will be okay, let's talk tomorrow at twelve.
But if you get some resistance, if you said to me, no, no, no,
tell me it's easier if you just text me, I'm
going to get mad and I'm going to say, well
never mind. I might just drop that and say never mind.
You're so not interested in this and you don't realize
(30:30):
how much I need to talk to you. Then again,
we're this is just going to escalate, and what's going
to happen is we are just going to grow more
and more distant apart. So thank you for your question. First,
have this conversation with your partner. Think about what it
is that you need and expect at this stage in
your life. Yeah, you're at a later stage in life
(30:50):
and working on the relationships requires you spending time together.
So the first thing you can do is spend time
with your partner having this conversation and also minimize some
of those dinners that you're having with other people. You know,
we can use together just we use the kids as buffers,
and then you know, and we're lacking emotional intimacy and
(31:13):
we don't feel comfortable with our partner anymore. We fill
that gap with family and friend time. And that's health.
It's good to have family and friend time. But when
you're kind of using them as to replace the children
as buffers because you don't really want to look at
each other, you don't really want to confront some of
the issues you're having, it's problematic. So that's one of
the other things I would tell you to do is
(31:34):
to look at your social time together and get some
of that social time reduced to where you actually prioritize yourself,
the couple shop, couple ships. Sorry, I'll come back to
giving a little bit more a couple of more tips
after we come back from this break.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Back to Unbleep your Life and Relationships on News Talk
eleven thirty wyss.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Hey, guys, welcome back to Unbleep your Life and Relationships.
I'm your host, Anita Ashley. We were just talking about
helping a couple grow closer together after the kids have left.
Thank you so much for your question. One of my
fathers on Instagram sent me this question about feeling disconnected
from her husband of twenty five years, feeling more and
(32:22):
more disconnected because they just launched the last child into
the world, and talking about how the dynamics have shifted,
but in some ways remain the same. They've just filled
that gap up that the kids filled with their friends
and their family time. And I was just saying, Okay,
we need to reduce that, get some more couple time in.
(32:43):
But you, you know, and your husband might be resistant
to that because you've fallen into this pattern of not
spending a lot of time together. So a conversation needs
to be had. We need to evaluate the needs and
expectations at this point in time, and trust me, they
have changed. You're not that young people who married and
didn't have children all that kind of stuff. And I
want to say, needs and expectations change over time. That's healthy,
(33:07):
that's normal. What you expected at the age of twenty
is very different to what you expect at the age
of fifty. However, we don't often talk about the different
needs and expectations, a different evolution of our needs and expectations.
And again the three ms. The breakdown in the three ms,
the miscommunication around needs and expectations, the mismanagement of needs
(33:30):
and expectations, and of course the misinterpretation of needs and expectations.
But get back to the table. Have an open and
honest conversation, because emotional intimacy is built around having an
open and honest conversation. If you're just saying what you
think your partner wants to hear, what will make him
(33:50):
or her happy, that's not being true to the relationship,
and that's not going to help you to build a
nurture and develop your needs and expectations. As this person said,
I'm emotionally starving. You're emotionally starving, and the only way
you're going to feed that hunger to be close to
your person is if you're able to freely and openly
(34:13):
talk to them. And I want to say to you,
a friend, who send me this question, I'm sure you
guys listening out there can relate to this because I
will say again and again and again, we are very
we are the most connected in society today globally, but
we are the least connected emotionally. It is a problem
that I hear about all the time in my office
(34:35):
all the time. Is not an exaggeration. Connections are vital
as for us as human beings. We are social creatures,
but intimate connections are vital to our existence and to
our happiness, our contentment, that's the word I like to use,
and we do. If we don't get it, we're starving
for it, and then we start doing other things that
impact the relationship in a negative way. And lots of
(34:57):
people out there listening to this I know struggling with this.
But the only way to combat it is to be
able to say, Okay, look in the mirror like this
woman has done. She says, I'm emotionally starving. Ask yourself,
how nurtured are you emotionally? We fill our bodies with food.
We nurture our physical self, but we need to nurture
(35:18):
and fill our emotional self with the ingredients that are
the food that's going to make us most happy and
fulfilled in our relationship. Most of the time, and sometimes,
of course, we're going to feel a little bit like
an emotion that's not the problems when overall we're feeling
a lack of connection to our partner. It's vital and
that changes throughout life, you know what. Again, like I said,
(35:38):
what I needed when I was twenty is very different
to what I need right now, And of course that
changes my children, our launch, and that's going to change
my needs and expectations. I need to be able to
communicate them in a way that's clear. And then when
when my partner knows about them, then he or she
needs to you know, I'm not you're biased, dear. That's fine, Okay,
(35:58):
Can I edit that out?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Just keep going, Okay. I need to be able to
first communicate them clearly. I need to make sure that
they're managed well, both of us will be in check
and responsible for that, and that there's not a misinterpretation
of that. And I keep repeating the three MS because
it's vital to understanding them with regards to your person's
(36:20):
needs and expectations. It's vital. It's even at work. Like
imagine you go to work and there's a breakdown in
your three MS. Guess why your boss is gonna come
in and say, hey, wait a minute, Greg, you're not
You're not meeting the needs and expectations of your role.
What are we gonna do about it?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
So don't but don't say to your husband I'm emotional
start emotionally starving, because that's probably a bad way to
start that off.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Well, he might not know what that means. Yeah, he
might right away. I'm thinking he might not know what
that means. So I would use language like I don't
feel close. I feel like there's a disconnect. You know,
I do my thing, you do your thing, But what
is our thing? Our thing used to be the chilldren.
But now the children are young adults and they've gone,
(37:03):
and they kind of fulfill that part of myself that
was emotionally which I recognize now emotionally starving, because as
moms we do that, we nurture our souls and our
bodies with our kids. We do as a mom, I
can speak to that. But when they go, I remember
experiencing this myself. I thought, now, what right this part
of myself that is empty? What am I gonna do
(37:25):
with it? And people will say, well, emptiness syndrome. It's
not that, it's like it fulfilled a part of us,
and what are we gonna do with that? Part. We
nurture it, we want to grow it individually, but also
as a couple, because if we go on our individual
paths that's going to lead to divorce. We're not going
to come back together, or we're just gonna be stuck
in a very disconnected, emotionally hungry marriage. And I'll tell
(37:46):
you if an friend who wrote this message to me,
I'm gonna say to you, you're feeling this way, I
bet your partner is also feeling this way. They just
have not brought it to your attention. They're keeping that
to themselves, and they're getting that need and expectation met
somewhere else, sublimating through you know, working out a lot,
(38:08):
you know, hanging out with the guys, playing whatever it
is that they're doing. But clearly they're doing something else
to get that part of the relationship met. Because I
tell you something, when there's one unhappy, for unfulfilled partner,
there is usually another one. But the expression of that
is very different. Men and women express that differently, And
just because he's not saying that to you doesn't mean
(38:29):
that he's fully satisfied either. Hopefully that will help you.
Those are some tips that you can take away about
more question. Okay, yeah, I do. Let me. Let me
get to this question, and if I can't answer it fully,
I'll have another Q in a next week. Okay, Anita,
I listened to your show on election anxiety. Oh yeah,
(38:52):
I listened to your seanie on election anxiety. I loved it.
Thank you for sharing. I definitely relate to some of
the things you talked about. I need help. My husband
and I are on two different sides. I'm okay with it,
but he feels the need to tell me that I'm wrong,
and we often fight about it. What should I do? Okay,
(39:13):
go ahead, Greg, I want to.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Hear your answer here.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Well, first, I'm going to say this, there's no well
fighting about it. We want to have a conversation. So
I would if I were you, I would say to him,
if that was you, if this was you and I Greg,
I would say, Greg, we need to have a talk
about this. You believe in this, I believe in this,
and we are married to each other. If we're going
(39:40):
to have a healthy relationship, the two different identities need
to coexist, meaning you have your beliefs about this. I
have mine, and that needs to be okay in this relationship.
I don't need you to shove down my throat what
I should feel about anything. In particular, we're talking about
the election. The election, I'm allowed to have my own identity.
(40:03):
I'm not an extension of who you are. You're not
an extension of who I am. So we need to
have that boundary. We are either going to have a
respectful conversation or we're going to agree not to talk
about this subject.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Agree to not to do agree agreed not.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
To agree, and agree not to talk about it, because
if you're going to be disrespectful and you know from me,
I'm reading this question a fighting about politics and whether
you're blue, red, whatever. You know, it's a common thing.
We hear about it all the time, right, but we
don't talk about the mental health aspect of the stress
that it causes. I was talking to somebody about the
election and this we can't talk about it. We just
(40:42):
want to focus on who's going to win, who's going
to lose, And I'm thinking, what do you mean we
can't talk about the mental health aspect of what's going
on politically in our country with the attempted assassination. All
of that stuff has an impact on us, not only
just the people involve. We viewed it, we observed it,
we had a reaction to it, and guess what, that's
(41:04):
in our minds. That's a part of our mental health.
It's like we put it aside as if that doesn't matter,
we just focus on what the outcome is going to
be of this election. Well, guess what in the midst
of all of this, there is a mental health aspect
of it. And this is very uncommon I see people
fighting over stuff like this except the fact that we
(41:25):
have different opinions. We have different views, and we need
to be able to engage in a healthy discourse in
a couple ship. Also, you know, wherever you are at
a party, when I see that happening, I'm like, oh
my gosh. This person, the person who's needing to do this.
They're very insecure in actually what they think and what
they feel about it because they have this need to
(41:47):
make everybody else come to their side. When a person
has a strong sense of identity, a strong sense of self,
they don't need to convince anybody else of anything else.
They are confident in their belief system. They have a
healthy dialogue about it, and they walk away and I'll
tell you something your husband sounds like he's not very
(42:09):
secure in himself. He doesn't have a solid sense of identity,
and he's trying to make you believe something maybe, and
in that he's trying to also somehow convince himself that
he's right and you're wrong. Now that's a whole new show.
We're gonna do the right and wrong dance. But I'll
tell you, in a relationship, it doesn't turn out too
well when you're polarized in those positions. I like to
(42:31):
use the word and help people adopt the word. We
are different, we have different views, we have different opinions,
and differences in our relationship are healthy. They make the relationship.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Interesting, very good stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I don't want a replication of myself as much as
I you know, like myself, love myself, whatever, But I
don't want that. That's not interesting. I actually want somebody
who has a strong opinion. But it's because I'm confident
too in who I am. It took a lot of
time to get here, but I'm confident. I don't need that.
I'm very respectful. If you're voting for Trump, I'm voting
for Trump, or I'm voting for somebody else. What does
(43:07):
it matter. I have to respect you as a human
being and respect me as a human being, and in
a household that has to exist, guys. And I know
that a lot of people are going through this right
now because I observe it at parties and I hear
it in my office and I get all kinds of
messages about it. Respect are right and need to be different.
(43:27):
We are different in that.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
How do we get a hold of you? I want
to ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Please send me a message on ask Anita. Ask Lee's
my social media. You can also get a hold of
me through my website, which is www Askanita Assley dot com.
I just want to thank everyone for listening to me
today tuning in and if I didn't get to your question,
I promise I'll get to it next week. Until next time,
(43:51):
take care of your mental health as well as your physical. Bye, guys,
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