April 4, 2025 • 30 mins
Cancer sucks. No argument there. But once you or a loved one has been diagnosed, what are the first steps and next steps to getting through this in one piece? On this episode, we're talking with Michelle Rapkin - a three-time cancer survivor who is deeply acquainted with the ins and outs of the disease. She decided to share her hard won lessons as an author herself in the new book, "CANCER SUCKS: But You’ll Get Through It."
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
News Network. Cancer sucks. No argument there, but once you
or a loved one has been diagnosed, what are the
first steps and next steps to getting through this? In
one piece? On this episode, we're talking with Michelle Rapkin,
a three time cancer survivor who is deeply acquainted with
(00:31):
the ins and outs of the disease. She decided to
share her hard won lessons as an author herself in
the new book Cancer Sucks, But You'll Get Through It.
Welcome to the show, Miss Rampkin. How are you today, I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Very well, Thank you. How are you, Rebecca, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I'm excited about talking to you today and hopefully sharing
some hope and some uplifting messages with the audience. Why
don't we start with I know you already worked in
the publishing industry, but why will you tell us about
that experience first?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Well, I have always loved books and paper and ink
and stories, so I My first job was at Bantam
Books many years ago in the late seventies.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
And I just have stayed and publish thing since then.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I've lived in New York City for thirty some years
and became a book editor, which I have loved.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
And still do love.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
That's awesome. And so you decided, after quite an ordeal,
that it was time for you to write your own book.
Have you written other books previous to this?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
No? I have not.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
This is my first book.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Okay, so let's talk about that, because that's what we're
here to talk about. Anyway. Why don't you kind of
walk us through what you went through in your life
that led you to wanting to write this book.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Sure, Well in twenty in two thousand, I was a
really a newlywed. I had gotten married at the age
of forty five for the first time two years earlier,
and I was having a normal routine checkup and my
(02:20):
doctor found non Hodgkin's lymphoma. So that was quite a shock.
And after some after the final diagnosis in his office, I.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Did what I often do.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I went straight to the bookstore and I went to
the cancer section because I felt like I had been
just dropped on a foreign planet in outer space named
planet cancer, and I need I needed someone to I
needed a guide. So I found a shelf full very
(03:00):
specific medical books about particular cancers, and I found a
lot of memoirs, but I couldn't find a book that
just said, you know what, I've already been through this,
let me walk with you and give you some pointers
so you don't have to reinvent the wheel when you're
dealing with cancer already. And I always thought about the fact,
(03:28):
I know, kept my eye on books, particularly since I've
had cancer twice again since then, and I still there.
There have been a few books that are similar. But
I felt that, you know, I think we all have
one thing in life, maybe that we really want to do,
(03:50):
maybe to help someone else.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I know it.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Might sound a little self serving, but I just thought,
I'm going to write this book since no one else has,
and so I wrote it last year.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Wow, that's that's awesome. So your two other instances of cancer,
was that the lymphoma coming back or was it a
different cancer?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah, no, this particular kind of lymphoma can come back.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
It can.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
You can actually technically, well technically you're never cured of cancer.
Once you can diagnose. At best you're in remission. But
if you've been in remission for five or seven years,
doctors say, don't come back. So sixteen years later, after
my first remission.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I had a symptom that.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Was not a cancer symptom, but I went to the
doctor and I forgot to tell him I'd had cancer
sixteen years earlier until late in the appointment, and it
came back. And then once it comes back, it can
come back very frequently. So it came back in twenty seventeen,
I went into remission, and then in late twenty eighteen
(05:06):
it came back again, and I was in treatment till
the beginning of twenty twenty, and.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Now I am in my I've just entered my fifth
year permission.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
That's awesome. That's good to hear, very good to hear.
So this has been a journey of how many years
start to find or start to now twenty three? Oh wow? Wow? Okay,
So you describe finding out as if you were put
on a different planet. I have been lucky enough, I guess,
(05:43):
not to have to deal with anything like that. Yet,
let's talk about that feeling from it, because I'm sure
other people can relate. You know, you were a newlywed
and all of a sudden, you know, you don't know
what's about to happen or what your future holds. What
is your advice to other people who are going through that.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
M Well, you know, I my head was just spinning
and I was sort of going through the motions, and
there is plenty.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
There are plenty of motions to go through, because all
of a sudden you have whatever your life holds, plus
a million doctors appointments and surgery and chemo, and I
was started feeling very overwhelmed, and I thought, Okay, just
you just have to get through today, Michelle, just get
(06:39):
through today. And when that felt overwhelming, I thought, Okay,
just get through the next hour. And finally I got
to the point where it was like, just breathe. Just
take your next breath and put your foot forward and
take the next step. And I think there was something
(06:59):
actually a little very calming about that, because suddenly I
didn't have to solve the problem of my cancer. I
just needed to get through the next minute or hour,
and that was a lot more manageable. So in the
very beginning, I guess I would just say just breathe.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Right, And I assume that your husband was really good
about kind of letting you tell him what you needed
from him.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Right, Yeah, he was great.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
You know. I have a section in the book called
for well meaning family and friends. And it's really addressed
to the people in one's life who don't have cancer
but want to be there because you know, a lot
of people came out of the woodwork when they learned
that I had cancer, and they were so wonderful. But
(07:55):
I learned a lot of things during that time that
I thought I would sharing this book.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Like you know, don't say, first of all, just be
there for your friend. Just be there.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
You don't have to solve the problem either, but you
need to not disappear. And now you could just text
your friend and say, you know, I hear you're going
through something very rough. You know, I'm thinking of you,
which opens up the door for your friend with cancer
or whatever problem to text you or call you and
(08:30):
to be comforted by you. Also, don't say what can
I do for you? If there's anything I can do
for you, just let me know what do you want
me to do the you know, I had too much
to do as it was. I really didn't have the
time or energy to figure out what my friend could
do for me. But it was great when somebody called
me and said, Michelle, I'm coming I'm planning on coming
(08:53):
over at three o'clock tomorrow to do all of your laundry.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Try it, fold it. It's three o'clock tomorrow, Okay, not
when it is a good time, you know. There.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
And I have a lot of suggestions in the book
for things that you can do for your friend that
does that will just be such a gift. But I
also tell the person who who is the patient, although
I don't like that word. But two, you know, don't
turn don't turn help down. If somebody says, you know,
(09:25):
what can I do for you? You can just say,
you know what, I don't know right now, but can
I let you know later when something comes up.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Never turn down help. You can put it off, but
don't turn it down.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, I agree with that for sure. And I like
what you said about you know, don't put the weight
or the job of telling you how you can help
me on me because you have enough. It's kind of
like new mothers, you know, they have enough on that plate.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Just do what you need to do to help what
you can do to help them, whether that's bring food,
whether that's like you said, doing laundry, cleaning house, whatever
it is. You know, that's great. I love that advice.
So how what happened in your friend group? Did you
find that some people didn't know what to do and
just disappeared?
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Actually yes, not not so much, but some you know,
there were some people in my life who just stepped
up and were there for me and became friends. And
there are other people who were dear friends who they
sort of disappeared, and you know, I noticed it.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
I guess it was upsetting, although I was very preoccupied
with just you know, trying to get well. But I
realized that they were probably afraid. They didn't know what
to say, didn't know what to do. And you know,
most of those people are still my friends today. But again,
(11:02):
you know, there are good things to say, and there
are some things not to say to your friend, but
the main thing is to say something or just text
something or just be there.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah. I like that. I like that a lot. Let's
talk about how did this affect you personally? Like I
can imagine that you're one of those very independent people
and you're used to if you face an obstacle, well
then I'm just gonna hunker down and I'm gonna overcome
(11:35):
it myself. But this is one of those things that
while you have to overcome it. There's also a certain
amount of relax and let your body do what your
body needs to do.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I am very independent. I was, you know, I didn't
have a choice.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I had to manage completely on my own for many,
many years of my life. And I and my nature
is independent too, so it is hard for me. It was,
you know, I didn't even have to ask for help.
What I had to do was manage. I had to
(12:16):
manage the fact that I couldn't do everything, and that
I had to let people do things for me, and
I had to delegate.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I had to delegate at work.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
I worked completely through my cancers, although you know I
did take days here and there, but I had to
delegate it work, and I had to delegate my personal
life and sort of let go. But you know, one
thing that having cancer does is it teaches you very
It gives you a crash course in understanding that we
(12:52):
can't do it alone. Almost almost whatever it is in
life that needs to be done, I can't do it alone.
And if we try, if we're lucky enough to succeed,
it probably was a lot harder than it needed to be,
and maybe the results weren't nearly as good as they
could have been had we accepted help.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I like that. I like that because I was thinking
about that. I have another friend who's very independent and
she struggles with accepting help, And like you said, I mean,
it's you have to be willing not only to accept
it but then to delegate, but still being accepting of
the fact that you have to not do it yourself, right.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
And you know, it occurred to me at one point
that you know, I would feel terrible if your friend
of mine was really in a crisis and.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I wanted to help and they said no, no.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
No, I'm fine, I'm fine. So that helped me say yes,
thank you, because we get a lot from being the
person who's helping and giving. And that's that that's something
not to be denied unnecessarily, right.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
For sure. Obviously I would assume that that first diagnosis
kind of changed your outlook on life in general and
what's important and what's not. Why don't you talk about
that a little bit?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, very much so.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I I used to be a real worrier, and I
will say that is sort of my nature, although now
I'm less a warrior because I've learned how inefficient and.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Of little use. Worrying usually is, and so I'll tackle
that first.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
You know, I have learned that most of the things
in my life that I've worried about never happened. It
never occurred to me that I would get cancer, you know,
as a newly wait in my mid forties. So worrying
doesn't it's not very productive. But I decided that if
I was worrying about something, then I should figure out
(15:15):
what can I do about that today to help solve
my worry, to help alleviate whatever issue I'm dealing with,
and then go do it. And then after that make
an appointment at eight o'clock the next morning to worry.
And if I worried later during the day, it was like, okay,
worry about that at eight o'clock tomorrow. And honestly, that
(15:39):
helped me a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Oh wow, I've never heard of that technique before. I
really liked it.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I made it up today, the truth.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
But I call it my worry appointment, and it goes
far beyond cancer. My husband unfortunately passed away several years ago,
and I started worrying about every everything the rest of
my life, and my worry appointments to day to o'clock
the following morning. Honestly, they were a huge help.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, yeah, I imagine. So I'm sorry to hear about
his passing. Thank you, but I imagine you'll had fun while elasted, right,
if that worked? Y? It was.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
I had to tell you I had ten and a
half years with him, and they were the best years
of my life and I wouldn't trade them for anything.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
That's awesome. So what was it like finding out you
had cancer a third time in during the pandemic? I mean,
how did that change things for you?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Well, when it came back a third time, that was
really tough because.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
There are only two treatments or chemos chemo cocktails for
the type of non Houchin slymphoma that I have had,
So there was really.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Our options were very limited, so, to be honest with you,
that was when I really started getting my affairs in order.
But I was able to have a Carte infusion, which
is a new immune therapy that.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Was partially helpful.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And then a brand new chemo was developed for someone
like me with the third incidents of my cancer, and
I took that and now I'm I've been great, but
I've forgotten the last half of your question. That was
the most important.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So just wondering what it was like during the pandemic, because.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
During the pandemic so oddly enough, let's see, I went
into a mission in January, just about New Year's of
twenty twenty, and I was so excited because you know,
it takes some time for you to get your energy
back and.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Start feeling like doing what you used to do.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
And so I thought, well, I'm going to take about
three months to just to you know, get myself strong again,
and then I'm going to do all the things that
I haven't done since January of twenty seventeen, because I
spent those three years pretty much dealing with cancer. And
my friend and I went into a Broadway play on
(18:36):
March seventh. We'd already heard about COVID, but it wasn't
We were sort of on the precipice of.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
The national shutdown, and that was sort of the launch.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
I was going to go visit my relatives in other
states and all of that. And on March seventh, it
turns out the very performance that we saw was the
first incidence an usher finding out they had COVID on
a Broadway play, and all of Broadway shut down, and
(19:06):
within days all of America shut down, and so did
my plans to celebrate my remission. But that's okay, you know,
I enjoyed. I didn't enjoy the whole COVID ordeal, of course,
on my behalf or others, but I was okay. I
(19:26):
was so happy to be healthy that I I just
my life. My personal life was still better than it
had been before I went into remission.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
That's beautiful. I love that I can say the same
for myself on a tangent here, But that's when I
met my husband, and you know, we dated through COVID,
and there was a lot of people who were very
stressed and very worried. But for me, that was one
of the happiest periods in the last I don't know,
ten years something like that. Yeah, So it wasn't it
(20:04):
wasn't awful under I mean, you know, I lost my dad,
but and my husband lost his mother, oh my god.
But they both had pre existing conditions that you know,
we knew something at some point was going to take
them because their health was not good, you know, So
it wasn't a total surprise, if that makes sense, you know, Yes,
(20:29):
But yeah, that's good to hear that you were even
though you weren't able to go do the things that
you wanted to do, you still didn't. It didn't steal
your joy.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
No, not at all, not a bit.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
That's wonderful because I've actually have another friend who she
was diagnosed with cancer and she dealt with it through humor.
She's a very funny person and she dealt with it
through humor on social media, and it was amazing to
find some of her other friends were angry that that
was the way she chose to deal. Really, yes, it
(21:02):
was very strange.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
That's really you.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Know something Actually, in a different interview I had for
this book, someone said, you know, if you only had
one thing to advise people, what would it be, Which
is a really hard question because I don't know if
there's so many And I just alerted out, don't lose
your sense of humor.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
And I don't know how.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I don't know how well that went over in the interview,
but I don't know what I would have.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I have a chapter on humor.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Yeah, In fact, I have a quote from Reba McIntyre
in the book that says, to succeedingf you need three
things a wishbone, a backbone, and a funny bone.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
And I loved that.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I love that. And there's the saying, you know, laughter
is the best medicine, and I believe that I do
too totally.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know, laughter is releasing, you know, I've learned.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
I learned once that when we cry, we release toxins
in our tears. So crime is not something to be avoided.
If you need to cry, get those toxins out. And
I feel like laughter.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I feel physically better after I've had a good laugh.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Oh yeah, me too. Speaking of tears, I actually saw
something and this has been online a while back, so
you'd have to google it because I don't remember exactly
where I saw it, but it was somebody took different
tears with different emotions and put them under a microscope,
and each different emotion caused a different look to the tears.
(22:44):
The tears shaped differently.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
M hm, oh, I have to look that up. That
is fascinating.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, I thought so too, Like sad tears looked one way,
but happy tears looked a different way. And then you know,
anxiety tears looked different. It was. It was really neat.
But I agree with you. I think, you know, because
I mean, I'm one of those that sometimes I'll cry
if I'm mad, sometimes I cry when I'm happy, Like,
just let it out, don't try to hold it in.
(23:10):
Absolutely so, do you work through the whole thing? Is
that common for people with your type of cancer? Do
you know? Would you advise that for people?
Speaker 4 (23:26):
If you can, I do advise it. For one thing,
you know, it's really hard. We never forget we have
cancer when we have cancer or a chronic illness. But there,
you know, it is true that if you're thinking about
(23:47):
whatever that assignment is at your desk and focusing on it,
you're not thinking as much about your illness.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
And also, so you know, most people, many people need
to work.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Just to get there, have their income continue, although you know,
I know that there are we can take vacation and
things like that. And to be honest, I worked less
during the last two cancers. But I'm you know, I'm
pretty old, and I had.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Stopped working for a publisher.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
After my husband died a couple of years after that
and started editing books on my own.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Since I've been in the business so long, I was
able to do that. So by the time.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
The second cancer came around, I was a little bit
more in control of my schedule, and that was really helpful.
But again, you know, I think it's about listening to
your body, listening to your instincts, listening.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
To your mind, and.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Doing what you can do, but knowing what your limits
are and being a friend to your self and your body.
So you know, I would get so frustrated sometimes with chemo.
I would just be fatigued and in bed for so long.
But then I realized, you know, that's my job right now,
(25:24):
Like my job is to do what my body needs
to get better.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Right right, Because we have this in our society. We
glorify busyness. Yeah, we do, and we shouldn't because there's
a lot of healing, mental health, healing, physical healing, a
lot of things. Good things come from being still and
being rested, Yes for sure. So yeah, I love that
(25:50):
you finally kind of won that battle within yourself too.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
So let's talk about the process of writing this book.
What what made you decide to write this down and
how long did it take and was there a healing
that happened during that?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
I wrote the book because I couldn't find it in
the bookstore when I went there.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
And I never forgot that, and I I So the
process took about close to a year.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
I couldn't have written this book if I was still sick.
The fact that I have been in remission. I've been
in remission for three solid years by the time I
started writing the book, and that was really a necessity,
just physically and mentally in every other way. I I
(26:48):
loved writing this book because you know, I've had a
pretty good life, and I've had a lot of I
had a lot of privileges and a lot of you know,
wonderful things happened to me, and I don't know, this
(27:10):
was one thing that I could do for other people
that I knew would be helpful, and you know, I
I I feel good about that.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
So I loved writing the book.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I love that we are actually almost out of time,
which I feel like I could talk to you forever.
Why don't we go ahead and tell people I know
the official release will not happen until the twelfth correct?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Okay, So why don't we tell people where they can
unofficially get the book now and then you know, talk
about where else they might find it next week?
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Good? Well, unofficially, it is being sold on Amazon and
probably Barnes and Noble right now, and as of the
twelfth it will be available at any online bookseller.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Hopefully your local bookstore will have the book.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
And yeah, so I you know when I when I
inscribe books, I've done that a little bit with early copies.
I've been saying, I hope you never have to read this,
and I do. I sort of hope nobody. I wish
nobody would have to read this book. But if you
(28:33):
find yourself needing just a companion and a little bit
of guidance, then I hope that the book is helpful.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I'm sure it will be. And I think, even though
you may not know them, I think you're going to
all of a sudden become a best friend to hundreds,
if not thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Thank you, Thank you very much. That's a gift to me.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, definitely, And you are a gift to everyone else
for being able to fill that void. So I appreciate you,
and I want to say that to you on behalf
of the other people that you are going to touch
that you will never know.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Thank you so much, Rebecca. You're welcome this interview.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yes, I was about to say the same thing to you.
Thank you for making time to talk with me today.
I really am excited about this, and I do hope
that you find a lot of success and maybe.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Write some more Thank you me too.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Thanks for tuning into
the show on your favorite local radio station. You can
now listen to this show or past shows through the
iheartapp or on iHeart dot com. Just search for Virginia
Focus under podcasts. I'm Rebecca Hughes with the Virginia News Network,
and I'll be here next week on Virginia Focus
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
News Network. Cancer sucks. No argument there, but once you
or a loved one has been diagnosed, what are the
first steps and next steps to getting through this? In
one piece? On this episode, we're talking with Michelle Rapkin,
a three time cancer survivor who is deeply acquainted with
(00:31):
the ins and outs of the disease. She decided to
share her hard won lessons as an author herself in
the new book Cancer Sucks, But You'll Get Through It.
Welcome to the show, Miss Rampkin. How are you today, I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Very well, Thank you. How are you, Rebecca, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I'm excited about talking to you today and hopefully sharing
some hope and some uplifting messages with the audience. Why
don't we start with I know you already worked in
the publishing industry, but why will you tell us about
that experience first?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Well, I have always loved books and paper and ink
and stories, so I My first job was at Bantam
Books many years ago in the late seventies.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
And I just have stayed and publish thing since then.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I've lived in New York City for thirty some years
and became a book editor, which I have loved.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
And still do love.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
That's awesome. And so you decided, after quite an ordeal,
that it was time for you to write your own book.
Have you written other books previous to this?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
No? I have not.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
This is my first book.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Okay, so let's talk about that, because that's what we're
here to talk about. Anyway. Why don't you kind of
walk us through what you went through in your life
that led you to wanting to write this book.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Sure, Well in twenty in two thousand, I was a
really a newlywed. I had gotten married at the age
of forty five for the first time two years earlier,
and I was having a normal routine checkup and my
(02:20):
doctor found non Hodgkin's lymphoma. So that was quite a shock.
And after some after the final diagnosis in his office, I.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Did what I often do.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I went straight to the bookstore and I went to
the cancer section because I felt like I had been
just dropped on a foreign planet in outer space named
planet cancer, and I need I needed someone to I
needed a guide. So I found a shelf full very
(03:00):
specific medical books about particular cancers, and I found a
lot of memoirs, but I couldn't find a book that
just said, you know what, I've already been through this,
let me walk with you and give you some pointers
so you don't have to reinvent the wheel when you're
dealing with cancer already. And I always thought about the fact,
(03:28):
I know, kept my eye on books, particularly since I've
had cancer twice again since then, and I still there.
There have been a few books that are similar. But
I felt that, you know, I think we all have
one thing in life, maybe that we really want to do,
(03:50):
maybe to help someone else.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I know it.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Might sound a little self serving, but I just thought,
I'm going to write this book since no one else has,
and so I wrote it last year.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Wow, that's that's awesome. So your two other instances of cancer,
was that the lymphoma coming back or was it a
different cancer?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah, no, this particular kind of lymphoma can come back.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
It can.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
You can actually technically, well technically you're never cured of cancer.
Once you can diagnose. At best you're in remission. But
if you've been in remission for five or seven years,
doctors say, don't come back. So sixteen years later, after
my first remission.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I had a symptom that.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Was not a cancer symptom, but I went to the
doctor and I forgot to tell him I'd had cancer
sixteen years earlier until late in the appointment, and it
came back. And then once it comes back, it can
come back very frequently. So it came back in twenty seventeen,
I went into remission, and then in late twenty eighteen
(05:06):
it came back again, and I was in treatment till
the beginning of twenty twenty, and.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Now I am in my I've just entered my fifth
year permission.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
That's awesome. That's good to hear, very good to hear.
So this has been a journey of how many years
start to find or start to now twenty three? Oh wow? Wow? Okay,
So you describe finding out as if you were put
on a different planet. I have been lucky enough, I guess,
(05:43):
not to have to deal with anything like that. Yet,
let's talk about that feeling from it, because I'm sure
other people can relate. You know, you were a newlywed
and all of a sudden, you know, you don't know
what's about to happen or what your future holds. What
is your advice to other people who are going through that.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
M Well, you know, I my head was just spinning
and I was sort of going through the motions, and
there is plenty.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
There are plenty of motions to go through, because all
of a sudden you have whatever your life holds, plus
a million doctors appointments and surgery and chemo, and I
was started feeling very overwhelmed, and I thought, Okay, just
you just have to get through today, Michelle, just get
(06:39):
through today. And when that felt overwhelming, I thought, Okay,
just get through the next hour. And finally I got
to the point where it was like, just breathe. Just
take your next breath and put your foot forward and
take the next step. And I think there was something
(06:59):
actually a little very calming about that, because suddenly I
didn't have to solve the problem of my cancer. I
just needed to get through the next minute or hour,
and that was a lot more manageable. So in the
very beginning, I guess I would just say just breathe.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Right, And I assume that your husband was really good
about kind of letting you tell him what you needed
from him.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Right, Yeah, he was great.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
You know. I have a section in the book called
for well meaning family and friends. And it's really addressed
to the people in one's life who don't have cancer
but want to be there because you know, a lot
of people came out of the woodwork when they learned
that I had cancer, and they were so wonderful. But
(07:55):
I learned a lot of things during that time that
I thought I would sharing this book.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Like you know, don't say, first of all, just be
there for your friend. Just be there.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
You don't have to solve the problem either, but you
need to not disappear. And now you could just text
your friend and say, you know, I hear you're going
through something very rough. You know, I'm thinking of you,
which opens up the door for your friend with cancer
or whatever problem to text you or call you and
(08:30):
to be comforted by you. Also, don't say what can
I do for you? If there's anything I can do
for you, just let me know what do you want
me to do the you know, I had too much
to do as it was. I really didn't have the
time or energy to figure out what my friend could
do for me. But it was great when somebody called
me and said, Michelle, I'm coming I'm planning on coming
(08:53):
over at three o'clock tomorrow to do all of your laundry.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Try it, fold it. It's three o'clock tomorrow, Okay, not
when it is a good time, you know. There.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
And I have a lot of suggestions in the book
for things that you can do for your friend that
does that will just be such a gift. But I
also tell the person who who is the patient, although
I don't like that word. But two, you know, don't
turn don't turn help down. If somebody says, you know,
(09:25):
what can I do for you? You can just say,
you know what, I don't know right now, but can
I let you know later when something comes up.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Never turn down help. You can put it off, but
don't turn it down.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, I agree with that for sure. And I like
what you said about you know, don't put the weight
or the job of telling you how you can help
me on me because you have enough. It's kind of
like new mothers, you know, they have enough on that plate.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Just do what you need to do to help what
you can do to help them, whether that's bring food,
whether that's like you said, doing laundry, cleaning house, whatever
it is. You know, that's great. I love that advice.
So how what happened in your friend group? Did you
find that some people didn't know what to do and
just disappeared?
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Actually yes, not not so much, but some you know,
there were some people in my life who just stepped
up and were there for me and became friends. And
there are other people who were dear friends who they
sort of disappeared, and you know, I noticed it.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
I guess it was upsetting, although I was very preoccupied
with just you know, trying to get well. But I
realized that they were probably afraid. They didn't know what
to say, didn't know what to do. And you know,
most of those people are still my friends today. But again,
(11:02):
you know, there are good things to say, and there
are some things not to say to your friend, but
the main thing is to say something or just text
something or just be there.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah. I like that. I like that a lot. Let's
talk about how did this affect you personally? Like I
can imagine that you're one of those very independent people
and you're used to if you face an obstacle, well
then I'm just gonna hunker down and I'm gonna overcome
(11:35):
it myself. But this is one of those things that
while you have to overcome it. There's also a certain
amount of relax and let your body do what your
body needs to do.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I am very independent. I was, you know, I didn't
have a choice.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I had to manage completely on my own for many,
many years of my life. And I and my nature
is independent too, so it is hard for me. It was,
you know, I didn't even have to ask for help.
What I had to do was manage. I had to
(12:16):
manage the fact that I couldn't do everything, and that
I had to let people do things for me, and
I had to delegate.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I had to delegate at work.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
I worked completely through my cancers, although you know I
did take days here and there, but I had to
delegate it work, and I had to delegate my personal
life and sort of let go. But you know, one
thing that having cancer does is it teaches you very
It gives you a crash course in understanding that we
(12:52):
can't do it alone. Almost almost whatever it is in
life that needs to be done, I can't do it alone.
And if we try, if we're lucky enough to succeed,
it probably was a lot harder than it needed to be,
and maybe the results weren't nearly as good as they
could have been had we accepted help.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I like that. I like that because I was thinking
about that. I have another friend who's very independent and
she struggles with accepting help, And like you said, I mean,
it's you have to be willing not only to accept
it but then to delegate, but still being accepting of
the fact that you have to not do it yourself, right.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
And you know, it occurred to me at one point
that you know, I would feel terrible if your friend
of mine was really in a crisis and.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I wanted to help and they said no, no.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
No, I'm fine, I'm fine. So that helped me say yes,
thank you, because we get a lot from being the
person who's helping and giving. And that's that that's something
not to be denied unnecessarily, right.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
For sure. Obviously I would assume that that first diagnosis
kind of changed your outlook on life in general and
what's important and what's not. Why don't you talk about
that a little bit?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, very much so.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I I used to be a real worrier, and I
will say that is sort of my nature, although now
I'm less a warrior because I've learned how inefficient and.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Of little use. Worrying usually is, and so I'll tackle
that first.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
You know, I have learned that most of the things
in my life that I've worried about never happened. It
never occurred to me that I would get cancer, you know,
as a newly wait in my mid forties. So worrying
doesn't it's not very productive. But I decided that if
I was worrying about something, then I should figure out
(15:15):
what can I do about that today to help solve
my worry, to help alleviate whatever issue I'm dealing with,
and then go do it. And then after that make
an appointment at eight o'clock the next morning to worry.
And if I worried later during the day, it was like, okay,
worry about that at eight o'clock tomorrow. And honestly, that
(15:39):
helped me a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Oh wow, I've never heard of that technique before. I
really liked it.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I made it up today, the truth.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
But I call it my worry appointment, and it goes
far beyond cancer. My husband unfortunately passed away several years ago,
and I started worrying about every everything the rest of
my life, and my worry appointments to day to o'clock
the following morning. Honestly, they were a huge help.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, yeah, I imagine. So I'm sorry to hear about
his passing. Thank you, but I imagine you'll had fun while elasted, right,
if that worked? Y? It was.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
I had to tell you I had ten and a
half years with him, and they were the best years
of my life and I wouldn't trade them for anything.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
That's awesome. So what was it like finding out you
had cancer a third time in during the pandemic? I mean,
how did that change things for you?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Well, when it came back a third time, that was
really tough because.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
There are only two treatments or chemos chemo cocktails for
the type of non Houchin slymphoma that I have had,
So there was really.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Our options were very limited, so, to be honest with you,
that was when I really started getting my affairs in order.
But I was able to have a Carte infusion, which
is a new immune therapy that.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Was partially helpful.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And then a brand new chemo was developed for someone
like me with the third incidents of my cancer, and
I took that and now I'm I've been great, but
I've forgotten the last half of your question. That was
the most important.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So just wondering what it was like during the pandemic, because.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
During the pandemic so oddly enough, let's see, I went
into a mission in January, just about New Year's of
twenty twenty, and I was so excited because you know,
it takes some time for you to get your energy
back and.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Start feeling like doing what you used to do.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
And so I thought, well, I'm going to take about
three months to just to you know, get myself strong again,
and then I'm going to do all the things that
I haven't done since January of twenty seventeen, because I
spent those three years pretty much dealing with cancer. And
my friend and I went into a Broadway play on
(18:36):
March seventh. We'd already heard about COVID, but it wasn't
We were sort of on the precipice of.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
The national shutdown, and that was sort of the launch.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
I was going to go visit my relatives in other
states and all of that. And on March seventh, it
turns out the very performance that we saw was the
first incidence an usher finding out they had COVID on
a Broadway play, and all of Broadway shut down, and
(19:06):
within days all of America shut down, and so did
my plans to celebrate my remission. But that's okay, you know,
I enjoyed. I didn't enjoy the whole COVID ordeal, of course,
on my behalf or others, but I was okay. I
(19:26):
was so happy to be healthy that I I just
my life. My personal life was still better than it
had been before I went into remission.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
That's beautiful. I love that I can say the same
for myself on a tangent here, But that's when I
met my husband, and you know, we dated through COVID,
and there was a lot of people who were very
stressed and very worried. But for me, that was one
of the happiest periods in the last I don't know,
ten years something like that. Yeah, So it wasn't it
(20:04):
wasn't awful under I mean, you know, I lost my dad,
but and my husband lost his mother, oh my god.
But they both had pre existing conditions that you know,
we knew something at some point was going to take
them because their health was not good, you know, So
it wasn't a total surprise, if that makes sense, you know, Yes,
(20:29):
But yeah, that's good to hear that you were even
though you weren't able to go do the things that
you wanted to do, you still didn't. It didn't steal
your joy.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
No, not at all, not a bit.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
That's wonderful because I've actually have another friend who she
was diagnosed with cancer and she dealt with it through humor.
She's a very funny person and she dealt with it
through humor on social media, and it was amazing to
find some of her other friends were angry that that
was the way she chose to deal. Really, yes, it
(21:02):
was very strange.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
That's really you.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Know something Actually, in a different interview I had for
this book, someone said, you know, if you only had
one thing to advise people, what would it be, Which
is a really hard question because I don't know if
there's so many And I just alerted out, don't lose
your sense of humor.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
And I don't know how.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I don't know how well that went over in the interview,
but I don't know what I would have.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I have a chapter on humor.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Yeah, In fact, I have a quote from Reba McIntyre
in the book that says, to succeedingf you need three
things a wishbone, a backbone, and a funny bone.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
And I loved that.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I love that. And there's the saying, you know, laughter
is the best medicine, and I believe that I do
too totally.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know, laughter is releasing, you know, I've learned.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
I learned once that when we cry, we release toxins
in our tears. So crime is not something to be avoided.
If you need to cry, get those toxins out. And
I feel like laughter.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I feel physically better after I've had a good laugh.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Oh yeah, me too. Speaking of tears, I actually saw
something and this has been online a while back, so
you'd have to google it because I don't remember exactly
where I saw it, but it was somebody took different
tears with different emotions and put them under a microscope,
and each different emotion caused a different look to the tears.
(22:44):
The tears shaped differently.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
M hm, oh, I have to look that up. That
is fascinating.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, I thought so too, Like sad tears looked one way,
but happy tears looked a different way. And then you know,
anxiety tears looked different. It was. It was really neat.
But I agree with you. I think, you know, because
I mean, I'm one of those that sometimes I'll cry
if I'm mad, sometimes I cry when I'm happy, Like,
just let it out, don't try to hold it in.
(23:10):
Absolutely so, do you work through the whole thing? Is
that common for people with your type of cancer? Do
you know? Would you advise that for people?
Speaker 4 (23:26):
If you can, I do advise it. For one thing,
you know, it's really hard. We never forget we have
cancer when we have cancer or a chronic illness. But there,
you know, it is true that if you're thinking about
(23:47):
whatever that assignment is at your desk and focusing on it,
you're not thinking as much about your illness.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
And also, so you know, most people, many people need
to work.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Just to get there, have their income continue, although you know,
I know that there are we can take vacation and
things like that. And to be honest, I worked less
during the last two cancers. But I'm you know, I'm
pretty old, and I had.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Stopped working for a publisher.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
After my husband died a couple of years after that
and started editing books on my own.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Since I've been in the business so long, I was
able to do that. So by the time.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
The second cancer came around, I was a little bit
more in control of my schedule, and that was really helpful.
But again, you know, I think it's about listening to
your body, listening to your instincts, listening.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
To your mind, and.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Doing what you can do, but knowing what your limits
are and being a friend to your self and your body.
So you know, I would get so frustrated sometimes with chemo.
I would just be fatigued and in bed for so long.
But then I realized, you know, that's my job right now,
(25:24):
Like my job is to do what my body needs
to get better.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Right right, Because we have this in our society. We
glorify busyness. Yeah, we do, and we shouldn't because there's
a lot of healing, mental health, healing, physical healing, a
lot of things. Good things come from being still and
being rested, Yes for sure. So yeah, I love that
(25:50):
you finally kind of won that battle within yourself too.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
So let's talk about the process of writing this book.
What what made you decide to write this down and
how long did it take and was there a healing
that happened during that?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
I wrote the book because I couldn't find it in
the bookstore when I went there.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
And I never forgot that, and I I So the
process took about close to a year.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
I couldn't have written this book if I was still sick.
The fact that I have been in remission. I've been
in remission for three solid years by the time I
started writing the book, and that was really a necessity,
just physically and mentally in every other way. I I
(26:48):
loved writing this book because you know, I've had a
pretty good life, and I've had a lot of I
had a lot of privileges and a lot of you know,
wonderful things happened to me, and I don't know, this
(27:10):
was one thing that I could do for other people
that I knew would be helpful, and you know, I
I I feel good about that.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
So I loved writing the book.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I love that we are actually almost out of time,
which I feel like I could talk to you forever.
Why don't we go ahead and tell people I know
the official release will not happen until the twelfth correct?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Okay, So why don't we tell people where they can
unofficially get the book now and then you know, talk
about where else they might find it next week?
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Good? Well, unofficially, it is being sold on Amazon and
probably Barnes and Noble right now, and as of the
twelfth it will be available at any online bookseller.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Hopefully your local bookstore will have the book.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
And yeah, so I you know when I when I
inscribe books, I've done that a little bit with early copies.
I've been saying, I hope you never have to read this,
and I do. I sort of hope nobody. I wish
nobody would have to read this book. But if you
(28:33):
find yourself needing just a companion and a little bit
of guidance, then I hope that the book is helpful.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I'm sure it will be. And I think, even though
you may not know them, I think you're going to
all of a sudden become a best friend to hundreds,
if not thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Thank you, Thank you very much. That's a gift to me.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, definitely, And you are a gift to everyone else
for being able to fill that void. So I appreciate you,
and I want to say that to you on behalf
of the other people that you are going to touch
that you will never know.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Thank you so much, Rebecca. You're welcome this interview.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yes, I was about to say the same thing to you.
Thank you for making time to talk with me today.
I really am excited about this, and I do hope
that you find a lot of success and maybe.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Write some more Thank you me too.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Thanks for tuning into
the show on your favorite local radio station. You can
now listen to this show or past shows through the
iheartapp or on iHeart dot com. Just search for Virginia
Focus under podcasts. I'm Rebecca Hughes with the Virginia News Network,
and I'll be here next week on Virginia Focus
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