March 21, 2025 • 30 mins
With deaths from gun violence at top of mind, researchers at Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Violence Solutions and the Consortium for Risk-Based Firearm Policy just released a new report detailing how a firearm purchaser licensing (also known as permit-to-purchase) can drastically lower gun violence. Existing licensing laws are already associated with 56% fewer mass shooting incidents and an 11% reduction in urban county homicides. We're talking to Silvia Villarreal, the Director of Research Translation, to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
News Network with deaths from gun violence to top of mind.
Researchers at Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Violence Solutions and
the Consortium for Risk Based Firearm Policy just released a
new report detailing how firearm purchaser licensing also known as
permit to Purchase, can drastically lower gun violence. Existing licensing
(00:29):
laws are already associated with fifty six percent fewer mass
shooting incidents and an eleven percent reduction in urban county homicides.
These are also popular policies supported by seventy two percent
of Americans, including sixty four percent of gun owners. We're
talking to Sylvia Villarial, the director of Research Translation, to
learn more. Welcome to the show. I'm so glad you
(00:51):
could be here with us today. I know gun violence
is something on top of a lot of people's minds,
and I'm glad we can talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Good morning, Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So what don't we start by telling people a little
bit about your qualifications and what you know, what leads
you to be able to talk about these things today.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, I have a formal education, a master's degree in
public policy, and I have studied gun laws really for
more than ten years, particularly when it happens when guns
are trafficked, gun debts, injuries, risks for gun violence, and
(01:38):
gun trafficking into Mexico as well.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Okay, and I know you're part of the group that
has done this recent study. Why don't you tell us
about that study in some of your findings, of course,
So we.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Just released a report about fire purchaser licensing, and fire
purchaser licensing is with some people know us, permit to purchase,
and it is exactly how it sounds. It's it's a
license that you need before you're being able to buy
(02:13):
a gun. And fire purchase licensing already exists, and we
have a ton of research now on how effective it
is at reducing gun debts. It has shown through many
studies that it is effective at reducing homicides, suicides, mass shootings,
(02:34):
and shootings buy and off police.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Okay, can you explain how how you did your research
and how that supports what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So the report that we are that we just released
really compiles all of these studies and their studies by
different authors, and what we did is we reviewed as
the evidence of what are the most effective components or
steps in fire and purchaser licensing, and we came up
(03:09):
with five recommendations. The first one is getting safety training,
a farm safety training before being able to buy a gun.
And this is a common sense law. The same way
that you would not get in a car and drive
(03:30):
in the road with other people without knowing how to drive,
you should not use a gun without knowing how to
store it, how to handle it. And another of our
recommendations is fingerprinting and doing an in person application. And
what this does is that it creates layers of safety
(03:54):
just to make sure that the person applying is who
he says he or she is. And one of the
other recommendations that we have is having waiting periods and
what waiting periods does at reducing gun violences. Waiting periods
create this time buffer between applying for a license and
(04:20):
actually getting your gun, and this time buffers are very
helpful with impulsive purchases that can lead to tragic outcomes,
particularly on suicide.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Okay, and that was all fire or was that just
four of the recommendations.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
That's what I'm asking, Oh, Comprehensive background checks I didn't
say that one, did I?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Okay. Comprehensive background checks are a bit different than what
people might know as a background check, which is the
universal background check, because they not only look at federal
data bass like the FBI and NICKS, but they also
allow law enforcement to look at state and local databases
(05:09):
to make sure that the people who should not have
a gun, that have a history of being dangerous are
not able to get a gun.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Okay, all right, now, are those things those recommendations? Are
they like you recommend all of those things altogether at
the same time, or are some of them standalone recommendations
you know, either or type situations.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
No, we recommend to have all of this five elements
in a fire purchase of licensing law, so they they
work in tandem. And you know this law is one
of the most effective but also one of the most
popular gun policies.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Okay. And when you took the studies that were pre
existing and did your study based on those previously published studies,
did you pay close attention to where those studies got
their numbers from, Because I know we've seen when you
really look at it, sometimes the gun numbers are skewed
based on the number of suicides, which tend to be
(06:14):
some of the highest numbers in a lot of gun
violence statistics that have been put out. But if you
don't really delve into it, you won't see that. And
I know that we're talking about these things also contributing
to lowering suicide, but I just was curious if you,
you know, were able to single that statistic out in
some way.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah. So most numbers that we have are from the CDC,
and we have studied CDC gun debts by a couple
of years now, and we're seeing all of this trends
happen happen also in real life in states that have
licensing or not have licensing. And there's one there's a
(07:00):
actually a couple of studies that are really really interesting
to look at at when you're talking about effectiveness. And
one is a study that was made in Connecticut when
they adopted this fire purtaseer licensing law back in the nineties,
nineteen ninety five, and they studied for a couple of years,
(07:22):
I would say, a decade, how gone that's behaved, and
there was a reduction on both gun homicides and suicides.
And we have a research study peer reviewed also from
Missouri that repealed its law in two thousand and seven,
(07:45):
and it led to a significant increase on homicides and suicides.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Okay, so let's if you don't mind those breakdowns from
the things you talked about. And one of the first
things you said was firearm training. I'm a gun to support.
I have bought at least one in my lifetime, and
I highly highly agree with your recommendation there that that
firearm training is very crucial. I know I took mine
(08:13):
through a local sheriff's department, so I mean I signed
up with them, but I don't know if they keep
records that I took that training or not. Is that
part them keeping a record that I took that training?
Is that important necessarily or is it just the fact
that I took it that's the most important part.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
That's that's a great story. So yes, you need to
take proof with your application. You need to bring proof
that you took that training in your application. What that
proof might look like it could look like different things.
Maybe you have a confirmation email, maybe you have a
certificate depending on training.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Okay, have you ever done that yourself?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I have not, but I gotta say I grew up
around guns. I come from a family of ranchers and
my family and my dad in my house, they were
my parents were big gun owners. And the emphasis was
also was always safety. And you know, I learned how
(09:18):
to use guns, rifles and like really all types of guns,
like really really young. But the emphasis that we made
was always safety. And this is what farm purchaser licensing does.
It just creates a safer environment.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, I will say I highly recommend if you get
a chance, go do it now as an adult because
one of the things that I learned, and granted there
were some SWAT members that were part of the teachers
of this course. One of the things I learned was
they took us into their fake house that they used
for SWAT training and they taught us how to see
(09:57):
someone in your home before they see you. And I
thought that was really fascinating. So, whether you have a
weapon or not, that was valuable to protecting yourself because
you know your own home better than anybody who's going
to come in from You know the outside for the
most part. You know, you know where your furniture is
and stuff like that, even the dark. So I thought
(10:17):
that was a really great thing. I highly encourage everybody
to take that firearm training with your local you know,
law enforcement group. The second thing you mentioned was was
it fingerprinting? Was that what you mentioned next? So that
would just entail the equivalent of what you have to
do for like your to get a servers perman if
(10:39):
you're a bartender or something like that.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Correct. Yeah, So the fingerprinting process is really simple, and
it's like getting fingerprinted for this process you just mentioned,
or having your fingerprint taken when you go to volunteer
at your kids school.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Now, is that part of the comprehensive background check that
you were talking about or is this something that would
be done separately for a separate reason.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
It is separately because fingerprinted it's an additional element of
security that makes sure that you are the person who
you say you are.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, all right, So we're going to take a class,
We're going to submit our fingerprints to verify our identity.
We're going to submit to this comprehensive background check. What
does that look like for the average person?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
People are used to universal background checks, and what universal
background checks is. They look at federal databases to look
to see if you're prohibited from owning a gun, or
if you have a record saying that you shouldn't, you
shouldn't buy or own a gun. And these comprehensive background
(11:50):
checks that are part of fire and purchaser licensing also
look at state and local databases so you can have
more information, you can have any situation of domestic balance,
and you have more details on the person who's applying
and that helps with objective criteria to make a decision
(12:14):
on the licensing.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Okay, so we're not just talking FBI database, We're talking
state and even more local than that as well.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Correct, Yes, but usually they are databases like law enforcement databases.
Like we're not looking at anything that's not related to
law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Okay, all right, now it's my understanding, and maybe I'm wrong,
but it's my understanding that the local law enforcement and
state in law enforcement, the state agencies, they are supposed
to be submitting things like that to the FBI, and
it's the FBI that is supposed to be handling this
national database of people who have these offenses so that
(12:58):
when they do apply for or their firearm, that is
flagged and in many cases, many, many many cases, especially
in mass shootings in various colleges and schools. If you
read all the court documentation, what ends up playing out
is it was the FBI didn't have They either didn't
(13:18):
have the information or they didn't follow their procedures and
it didn't get done. So it was an administrative issue
rather than the person didn't follow the rule. Have you
did you guys look into that part of it at all?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
We did so with firem purchase of licensing, we include
all of these layers of safety exactly so people do
not fall through those cracks. And each each state submits
their own data to the FBI, as you just said,
to the it's specifically the NIXT database. Bit. States have
(13:57):
to do that on their own and sometimes, uh, people
make mistakes or there's not enough information on the on
the database. So having access to that federal database and
also state in local databases, uh gives us a better picture.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that, And like you said,
I mean, it's just sometimes it's just human error and
you know, doesn't get done. What about in cases of
I know what you guys are looking at is moreover
people who are buying their guns legally and they're going
through the process and these are the processes to have
enough documentation so that if that person then becomes deviant,
(14:40):
we can prosecute. I assume that's the ultimate goal of
all this. What about people who find themselves in a
domestic violence situation if we put too many of these
restrictions in place that take too long to go through
the hoops. You know, if a domestic violence victim needs
a weapon because they feel like they're in danger and
they can get one, then that can cause a problem
(15:02):
of its own. Is there a solution for that or
is that a casualty of keeping us safe the other direction.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I'm very glad that you mentioned domestic violence, because what
we have seen in research is that it really works
the other way around. We are trying for victims and
for their partners not to have is the access to
guns if they have a domestic violence prohibition or if
(15:33):
they have a history of violence, and that can you know,
really deter how people survive and it lowers the number
of crime firearms that are out on the street.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Okay, is there any research that backs that up or
is that just your speculation.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
No, there's there's a lot of studies examining the connection
between gun violence and domestic violence. There's a lot of
research that says that more guns do not keep you safe.
And you know, we have heard about cases of I
(16:15):
don't know why girlfriends going to law enforcement and saying
that they are concerned of, you know, being in danger
because their spouse is abusing them and they have a
gun and they don't know what to do with it.
So there's different policies that address that and are also
effective at particularly doing that. So what we have with
(16:41):
domestic violence is just you have to look at a
tandem of solutions. It's not really just one. But what
we're trying to do here is to not give easy
access to guns to dangerous people, and domestic violence of
(17:02):
the offenders are shown to be dangerous persons.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, that's definitely definitely true. Obviously, Again, like I said,
we're looking at people who go by the rules. Unfortunately,
a large number of people who commit crimes with guns
are people who are never following the rules from day one.
They're stealing these guns, they're you know, in some former fashion,
three D printing, whatever, getting a firearm in an illegal fashion.
(17:33):
Is there any research that we can do to find
out more about that and is there any ideas on
how to address that at all, or I mean, I
don't know. You guys are the experts.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yes, there's a ton of evidence saying that. You know,
people are just going If people want to get ahold
of a gun illegally, they might be able to do so.
But what we're trying to do with fire purchaser licensing
(18:09):
and other policies is making it harder. So, for example,
with straw purchasers, if you know that you're gonna be
fingerprinted and run through background checks and going through all
of these steps, you might be deterred to buy guns
(18:30):
for someone else.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Okay, so that would deter you from purchasing it for
someone you don't know. Is that that what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
So, struck purchasers are people who buy guns in place
of other people. So for example, a wife buying a
gun instead of the husband because the husband is prohibited.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Oh okay, I see what you're saying. What wasn't familiar
with that term. That's why I was struggling. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
So, And the reason that it's called straw purchasers is
because people buy guns this way but also are able
to buy guns five today and five tomorrow and five
on Friday and ten on Wednesday, and one hundred on
Monday if you want, and you know it's it's literally
(19:27):
a straw purchase. Really, what are you doing with two
hundred farms that you bought in a week. Most of
those farms are tracked to crimes.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, So then my question would be this, let's say
somebody goes through let's see these five recommendations, they all
get put into place. People go through that and they
get the license to purchase. Do they have to then
the waiting period that you spoke about. Are y'all recommending
that they continue to have that waiting period after they've
(20:01):
already gone through all the hoops to prove that they're
safe and reliable and can be trusted, or would that
lower the waiting period?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It can really depend on the state just having that buffer.
It can mean different things for different states. I believe
some states have like thirty days, some have four days,
and whatever works for the community. I think it's best.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Okay, I didn't know if you guys had a recommendation
on your end as far as how long that should be.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
We do not.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Okay, that's all right, that's fine. Can you tell us
a little bit about some of the studies that you
looked at, Like, can you cite some of those sources
for people who may want to not only look at
your study, but some of the ones that you guys
examined when doing your research.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, I did not know the citation on the top
of my mind. But one of the best researchers on
foreign bridges and licensing is Casker se and Alex McCord.
They have PhDs in like decades of experience studying gun violence.
(21:11):
Another author from our center could be Daniel Websters. So
there's really there's really a lot of studies and that's
why I do not know exactly the title.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, that's understandable, but.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I'm happy to send those to you.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, that'd be great. Actually, what I was hoping is
more so for people who are listening who, let's say
they're skeptical and they wanted to do their own research.
You know, where could they go to find your study?
And then I assume within that study they could find
links to the ones that you guys looked at.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
You can look us up. We are the Center for
good Bye Solutions at JAS Hopkins and in our website
we have our report and our findings, but we also
have a list of research findings. And you know, all
of this research findings are peer reviewed. They are proved
by a community of researchers, so that takes away the
(22:09):
subjectivity that people might be skeptical about. Right.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And are you guys part of any kind of I'm
gonna call it a committee anything like that where you
kind of advise government leaders, whether it be congress people
or even the president himself on some of these things.
And if so, is there anything in the works right
now that we need to know about.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
No, we're not officially part of any committee, but we
are always happy to share our research findings with whatever
policy maker that's interested in finding evidence or knowing more
about how certain law has worked in a specific state.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Okay, and about how long did it take for you
guys to do your study?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Wow, it took us, would say a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, that sounds that sounds very reasonable to me. I mean,
you know, you have to be thorough, so and I'm
sure you guys are so.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, So it took us a year and a half.
And you know, we there's many authors on this report
and a lot of experts that we consulted, so every
step of the way, we made sure that there was
verifiable evidence from official sources and also consensus among different
types of researchers, researchers on gun violence, on mental health, experts,
(23:35):
in law, so we could we could have a very
comprehensive report with all of the considerations people might need
to understand how fire and purchase of licensing works.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Okay, I love that, would you say, And you might
not be able to answer this, and that's fine. Is
there any particular state or region of the country that
you would say is doing a better job than others
with this type of thing gun regulations and lowering gun violence.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yes, we have the research studies about Connecticut and Missouri.
I don't know if I already mentioned them, because I
have done a couple of interviews.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, but you have no, you have not mentioned that.
So if you would expand on that, though, would be great.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Okay, we have the example of Missouri and Connecticut, and
we have scientific research studies that studied how gun violence
what's happening in each of these states. Because Connecticut adopted
its fire and purchaser licensing law in nineteen ninety five,
(24:49):
and these researchers looked at gun debts like homicides and
suicides for the following ten years, and there was a
big increase, a big I'm sorry, there was a big
decrease and homicides and suicides. We have an example of
(25:09):
exactly the opposite where Missouri repealed its law in two
thousand and seven and it was followed by a dramatic
increase of homicides and suicides in the following years.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Okay, I know I grew up in the state of
Georgia and in an area of a city called Kinnisol.
They actually enacted when I was much younger a law
that basically said everyone in the city has to own
a gun, and that is when their crime actually significantly decreased,
because I guess criminals assumed that if everybody's got a gun,
(25:47):
you know, now I'm in danger. I don't have an
advantage over anybody else. Do you take into account things
like that, I mean, is that an anomaly or is
you know what I'm saying, like, is it just dependent
on where it is?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yes, I would say those types of data really depend
on the community. But we do have research that says
that more guns, having more guns do not make you safer,
because they can escalate really simple problems or disputes like traffic.
(26:23):
What's the name.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Of this road rage? Yeah, yeah, road rage.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Like road rage or being in a bar with where
you know somebody looked wrong at you and there's people
are drunk and they have guns and make bad choices. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I think in some ways guns are like nuclear weapons,
you know, like we just don't nobody needs to have them,
but since they exist, there's this question of who needs
to have them and how many.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
That's exactly the goal here. We're not saying that guns
are bad or or you know, trying to infringe on
any ride. What we're trying to do is make making
it harder for criminals, for people who have shown to
(27:15):
be dangerous to not have easy access to guns, because
then it can turns into homicides and suicides and domestic
balance issues and all different kinds of issues that causing
deaths that could be prevented.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, definitely, most definitely. I know we're at the end
of our time. I want to give you a chance
to answer this question. You're the expert. I'm just really curious,
is there anything the audience needs to know that I
just didn't know to ask you about.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
That's a great question. I would say I would say
no in terms of content, but I do want to
say that every time that we're talking about gun balance
and gun death, and you know, we talk a lot
about research and statistics the research evidence, we need to
remember that each of these data points are a life lost,
(28:12):
and that creates many issues on families. There's always it
has to be someone's dad, or someone's sister or your
son who lost their life in a very preventable way
due to gun violence, and we have to be mindful
(28:34):
of what that creates in long term, and it cost
the health system a lot and law enforcement a lot.
So there's really a lot of effects that are not
necessarily ideal, and that's why we look at gun violence
from a public health perspective.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Gotcha, I really appreciate that. Thank you so much for
your time today and for sharing you know about this
new study. Can you plug that website one more time
for me so people can go check it out for themselves.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, So just look us up. We are the Center
for Gun Violent Solutions Jons Hopkins, and you can find
a lot of research there on different types of issues.
We also focus on other policy solutions that can reduce
gun violence. And that's it really awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Thank you so much for your time. I really do
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Thank you, Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Thanks for tuning into
the show on your favorite local radio station. You can
now listen to this show or past shows through the
iheartapp or on iHeart dot com. Just search for Virginia
Focus under podcasts. I'm Rebecca Hughes with a Virginia news network,
and I'll be here next week on Virginia Focus.
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
News Network with deaths from gun violence to top of mind.
Researchers at Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Violence Solutions and
the Consortium for Risk Based Firearm Policy just released a
new report detailing how firearm purchaser licensing also known as
permit to Purchase, can drastically lower gun violence. Existing licensing
(00:29):
laws are already associated with fifty six percent fewer mass
shooting incidents and an eleven percent reduction in urban county homicides.
These are also popular policies supported by seventy two percent
of Americans, including sixty four percent of gun owners. We're
talking to Sylvia Villarial, the director of Research Translation, to
learn more. Welcome to the show. I'm so glad you
(00:51):
could be here with us today. I know gun violence
is something on top of a lot of people's minds,
and I'm glad we can talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Good morning, Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So what don't we start by telling people a little
bit about your qualifications and what you know, what leads
you to be able to talk about these things today.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, I have a formal education, a master's degree in
public policy, and I have studied gun laws really for
more than ten years, particularly when it happens when guns
are trafficked, gun debts, injuries, risks for gun violence, and
(01:38):
gun trafficking into Mexico as well.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Okay, and I know you're part of the group that
has done this recent study. Why don't you tell us
about that study in some of your findings, of course,
So we.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Just released a report about fire purchaser licensing, and fire
purchaser licensing is with some people know us, permit to purchase,
and it is exactly how it sounds. It's it's a
license that you need before you're being able to buy
(02:13):
a gun. And fire purchase licensing already exists, and we
have a ton of research now on how effective it
is at reducing gun debts. It has shown through many
studies that it is effective at reducing homicides, suicides, mass shootings,
(02:34):
and shootings buy and off police.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Okay, can you explain how how you did your research
and how that supports what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So the report that we are that we just released
really compiles all of these studies and their studies by
different authors, and what we did is we reviewed as
the evidence of what are the most effective components or
steps in fire and purchaser licensing, and we came up
(03:09):
with five recommendations. The first one is getting safety training,
a farm safety training before being able to buy a gun.
And this is a common sense law. The same way
that you would not get in a car and drive
(03:30):
in the road with other people without knowing how to drive,
you should not use a gun without knowing how to
store it, how to handle it. And another of our
recommendations is fingerprinting and doing an in person application. And
what this does is that it creates layers of safety
(03:54):
just to make sure that the person applying is who
he says he or she is. And one of the
other recommendations that we have is having waiting periods and
what waiting periods does at reducing gun violences. Waiting periods
create this time buffer between applying for a license and
(04:20):
actually getting your gun, and this time buffers are very
helpful with impulsive purchases that can lead to tragic outcomes,
particularly on suicide.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Okay, and that was all fire or was that just
four of the recommendations.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
That's what I'm asking, Oh, Comprehensive background checks I didn't
say that one, did I?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Okay. Comprehensive background checks are a bit different than what
people might know as a background check, which is the
universal background check, because they not only look at federal
data bass like the FBI and NICKS, but they also
allow law enforcement to look at state and local databases
(05:09):
to make sure that the people who should not have
a gun, that have a history of being dangerous are
not able to get a gun.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Okay, all right, now, are those things those recommendations? Are
they like you recommend all of those things altogether at
the same time, or are some of them standalone recommendations
you know, either or type situations.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
No, we recommend to have all of this five elements
in a fire purchase of licensing law, so they they
work in tandem. And you know this law is one
of the most effective but also one of the most
popular gun policies.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Okay. And when you took the studies that were pre
existing and did your study based on those previously published studies,
did you pay close attention to where those studies got
their numbers from, Because I know we've seen when you
really look at it, sometimes the gun numbers are skewed
based on the number of suicides, which tend to be
(06:14):
some of the highest numbers in a lot of gun
violence statistics that have been put out. But if you
don't really delve into it, you won't see that. And
I know that we're talking about these things also contributing
to lowering suicide, but I just was curious if you,
you know, were able to single that statistic out in
some way.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah. So most numbers that we have are from the CDC,
and we have studied CDC gun debts by a couple
of years now, and we're seeing all of this trends
happen happen also in real life in states that have
licensing or not have licensing. And there's one there's a
(07:00):
actually a couple of studies that are really really interesting
to look at at when you're talking about effectiveness. And
one is a study that was made in Connecticut when
they adopted this fire purtaseer licensing law back in the nineties,
nineteen ninety five, and they studied for a couple of years,
(07:22):
I would say, a decade, how gone that's behaved, and
there was a reduction on both gun homicides and suicides.
And we have a research study peer reviewed also from
Missouri that repealed its law in two thousand and seven,
(07:45):
and it led to a significant increase on homicides and suicides.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Okay, so let's if you don't mind those breakdowns from
the things you talked about. And one of the first
things you said was firearm training. I'm a gun to support.
I have bought at least one in my lifetime, and
I highly highly agree with your recommendation there that that
firearm training is very crucial. I know I took mine
(08:13):
through a local sheriff's department, so I mean I signed
up with them, but I don't know if they keep
records that I took that training or not. Is that
part them keeping a record that I took that training?
Is that important necessarily or is it just the fact
that I took it that's the most important part.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
That's that's a great story. So yes, you need to
take proof with your application. You need to bring proof
that you took that training in your application. What that
proof might look like it could look like different things.
Maybe you have a confirmation email, maybe you have a
certificate depending on training.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Okay, have you ever done that yourself?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I have not, but I gotta say I grew up
around guns. I come from a family of ranchers and
my family and my dad in my house, they were
my parents were big gun owners. And the emphasis was
also was always safety. And you know, I learned how
(09:18):
to use guns, rifles and like really all types of guns,
like really really young. But the emphasis that we made
was always safety. And this is what farm purchaser licensing does.
It just creates a safer environment.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, I will say I highly recommend if you get
a chance, go do it now as an adult because
one of the things that I learned, and granted there
were some SWAT members that were part of the teachers
of this course. One of the things I learned was
they took us into their fake house that they used
for SWAT training and they taught us how to see
(09:57):
someone in your home before they see you. And I
thought that was really fascinating. So, whether you have a
weapon or not, that was valuable to protecting yourself because
you know your own home better than anybody who's going
to come in from You know the outside for the
most part. You know, you know where your furniture is
and stuff like that, even the dark. So I thought
(10:17):
that was a really great thing. I highly encourage everybody
to take that firearm training with your local you know,
law enforcement group. The second thing you mentioned was was
it fingerprinting? Was that what you mentioned next? So that
would just entail the equivalent of what you have to
do for like your to get a servers perman if
(10:39):
you're a bartender or something like that.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Correct. Yeah, So the fingerprinting process is really simple, and
it's like getting fingerprinted for this process you just mentioned,
or having your fingerprint taken when you go to volunteer
at your kids school.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Now, is that part of the comprehensive background check that
you were talking about or is this something that would
be done separately for a separate reason.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
It is separately because fingerprinted it's an additional element of
security that makes sure that you are the person who
you say you are.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, all right, So we're going to take a class,
We're going to submit our fingerprints to verify our identity.
We're going to submit to this comprehensive background check. What
does that look like for the average person?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
People are used to universal background checks, and what universal
background checks is. They look at federal databases to look
to see if you're prohibited from owning a gun, or
if you have a record saying that you shouldn't, you
shouldn't buy or own a gun. And these comprehensive background
(11:50):
checks that are part of fire and purchaser licensing also
look at state and local databases so you can have
more information, you can have any situation of domestic balance,
and you have more details on the person who's applying
and that helps with objective criteria to make a decision
(12:14):
on the licensing.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Okay, so we're not just talking FBI database, We're talking
state and even more local than that as well.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Correct, Yes, but usually they are databases like law enforcement databases.
Like we're not looking at anything that's not related to
law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Okay, all right, now it's my understanding, and maybe I'm wrong,
but it's my understanding that the local law enforcement and
state in law enforcement, the state agencies, they are supposed
to be submitting things like that to the FBI, and
it's the FBI that is supposed to be handling this
national database of people who have these offenses so that
(12:58):
when they do apply for or their firearm, that is
flagged and in many cases, many, many many cases, especially
in mass shootings in various colleges and schools. If you
read all the court documentation, what ends up playing out
is it was the FBI didn't have They either didn't
(13:18):
have the information or they didn't follow their procedures and
it didn't get done. So it was an administrative issue
rather than the person didn't follow the rule. Have you
did you guys look into that part of it at all?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
We did so with firem purchase of licensing, we include
all of these layers of safety exactly so people do
not fall through those cracks. And each each state submits
their own data to the FBI, as you just said,
to the it's specifically the NIXT database. Bit. States have
(13:57):
to do that on their own and sometimes, uh, people
make mistakes or there's not enough information on the on
the database. So having access to that federal database and
also state in local databases, uh gives us a better picture.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that, And like you said,
I mean, it's just sometimes it's just human error and
you know, doesn't get done. What about in cases of
I know what you guys are looking at is moreover
people who are buying their guns legally and they're going
through the process and these are the processes to have
enough documentation so that if that person then becomes deviant,
(14:40):
we can prosecute. I assume that's the ultimate goal of
all this. What about people who find themselves in a
domestic violence situation if we put too many of these
restrictions in place that take too long to go through
the hoops. You know, if a domestic violence victim needs
a weapon because they feel like they're in danger and
they can get one, then that can cause a problem
(15:02):
of its own. Is there a solution for that or
is that a casualty of keeping us safe the other direction.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I'm very glad that you mentioned domestic violence, because what
we have seen in research is that it really works
the other way around. We are trying for victims and
for their partners not to have is the access to
guns if they have a domestic violence prohibition or if
(15:33):
they have a history of violence, and that can you know,
really deter how people survive and it lowers the number
of crime firearms that are out on the street.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Okay, is there any research that backs that up or
is that just your speculation.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
No, there's there's a lot of studies examining the connection
between gun violence and domestic violence. There's a lot of
research that says that more guns do not keep you safe.
And you know, we have heard about cases of I
(16:15):
don't know why girlfriends going to law enforcement and saying
that they are concerned of, you know, being in danger
because their spouse is abusing them and they have a
gun and they don't know what to do with it.
So there's different policies that address that and are also
effective at particularly doing that. So what we have with
(16:41):
domestic violence is just you have to look at a
tandem of solutions. It's not really just one. But what
we're trying to do here is to not give easy
access to guns to dangerous people, and domestic violence of
(17:02):
the offenders are shown to be dangerous persons.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, that's definitely definitely true. Obviously, Again, like I said,
we're looking at people who go by the rules. Unfortunately,
a large number of people who commit crimes with guns
are people who are never following the rules from day one.
They're stealing these guns, they're you know, in some former fashion,
three D printing, whatever, getting a firearm in an illegal fashion.
(17:33):
Is there any research that we can do to find
out more about that and is there any ideas on
how to address that at all, or I mean, I
don't know. You guys are the experts.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yes, there's a ton of evidence saying that. You know,
people are just going If people want to get ahold
of a gun illegally, they might be able to do so.
But what we're trying to do with fire purchaser licensing
(18:09):
and other policies is making it harder. So, for example,
with straw purchasers, if you know that you're gonna be
fingerprinted and run through background checks and going through all
of these steps, you might be deterred to buy guns
(18:30):
for someone else.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Okay, so that would deter you from purchasing it for
someone you don't know. Is that that what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
So, struck purchasers are people who buy guns in place
of other people. So for example, a wife buying a
gun instead of the husband because the husband is prohibited.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Oh okay, I see what you're saying. What wasn't familiar
with that term. That's why I was struggling. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
So, And the reason that it's called straw purchasers is
because people buy guns this way but also are able
to buy guns five today and five tomorrow and five
on Friday and ten on Wednesday, and one hundred on
Monday if you want, and you know it's it's literally
(19:27):
a straw purchase. Really, what are you doing with two
hundred farms that you bought in a week. Most of
those farms are tracked to crimes.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, So then my question would be this, let's say
somebody goes through let's see these five recommendations, they all
get put into place. People go through that and they
get the license to purchase. Do they have to then
the waiting period that you spoke about. Are y'all recommending
that they continue to have that waiting period after they've
(20:01):
already gone through all the hoops to prove that they're
safe and reliable and can be trusted, or would that
lower the waiting period?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It can really depend on the state just having that buffer.
It can mean different things for different states. I believe
some states have like thirty days, some have four days,
and whatever works for the community. I think it's best.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Okay, I didn't know if you guys had a recommendation
on your end as far as how long that should be.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
We do not.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Okay, that's all right, that's fine. Can you tell us
a little bit about some of the studies that you
looked at, Like, can you cite some of those sources
for people who may want to not only look at
your study, but some of the ones that you guys
examined when doing your research.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, I did not know the citation on the top
of my mind. But one of the best researchers on
foreign bridges and licensing is Casker se and Alex McCord.
They have PhDs in like decades of experience studying gun violence.
(21:11):
Another author from our center could be Daniel Websters. So
there's really there's really a lot of studies and that's
why I do not know exactly the title.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, that's understandable, but.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I'm happy to send those to you.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, that'd be great. Actually, what I was hoping is
more so for people who are listening who, let's say
they're skeptical and they wanted to do their own research.
You know, where could they go to find your study?
And then I assume within that study they could find
links to the ones that you guys looked at.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
You can look us up. We are the Center for
good Bye Solutions at JAS Hopkins and in our website
we have our report and our findings, but we also
have a list of research findings. And you know, all
of this research findings are peer reviewed. They are proved
by a community of researchers, so that takes away the
(22:09):
subjectivity that people might be skeptical about. Right.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And are you guys part of any kind of I'm
gonna call it a committee anything like that where you
kind of advise government leaders, whether it be congress people
or even the president himself on some of these things.
And if so, is there anything in the works right
now that we need to know about.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
No, we're not officially part of any committee, but we
are always happy to share our research findings with whatever
policy maker that's interested in finding evidence or knowing more
about how certain law has worked in a specific state.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Okay, and about how long did it take for you
guys to do your study?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Wow, it took us, would say a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, that sounds that sounds very reasonable to me. I mean,
you know, you have to be thorough, so and I'm
sure you guys are so.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, So it took us a year and a half.
And you know, we there's many authors on this report
and a lot of experts that we consulted, so every
step of the way, we made sure that there was
verifiable evidence from official sources and also consensus among different
types of researchers, researchers on gun violence, on mental health, experts,
(23:35):
in law, so we could we could have a very
comprehensive report with all of the considerations people might need
to understand how fire and purchase of licensing works.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Okay, I love that, would you say, And you might
not be able to answer this, and that's fine. Is
there any particular state or region of the country that
you would say is doing a better job than others
with this type of thing gun regulations and lowering gun violence.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yes, we have the research studies about Connecticut and Missouri.
I don't know if I already mentioned them, because I
have done a couple of interviews.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, but you have no, you have not mentioned that.
So if you would expand on that, though, would be great.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Okay, we have the example of Missouri and Connecticut, and
we have scientific research studies that studied how gun violence
what's happening in each of these states. Because Connecticut adopted
its fire and purchaser licensing law in nineteen ninety five,
(24:49):
and these researchers looked at gun debts like homicides and
suicides for the following ten years, and there was a
big increase, a big I'm sorry, there was a big
decrease and homicides and suicides. We have an example of
(25:09):
exactly the opposite where Missouri repealed its law in two
thousand and seven and it was followed by a dramatic
increase of homicides and suicides in the following years.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Okay, I know I grew up in the state of
Georgia and in an area of a city called Kinnisol.
They actually enacted when I was much younger a law
that basically said everyone in the city has to own
a gun, and that is when their crime actually significantly decreased,
because I guess criminals assumed that if everybody's got a gun,
(25:47):
you know, now I'm in danger. I don't have an
advantage over anybody else. Do you take into account things
like that, I mean, is that an anomaly or is
you know what I'm saying, like, is it just dependent
on where it is?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yes, I would say those types of data really depend
on the community. But we do have research that says
that more guns, having more guns do not make you safer,
because they can escalate really simple problems or disputes like traffic.
(26:23):
What's the name.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Of this road rage? Yeah, yeah, road rage.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Like road rage or being in a bar with where
you know somebody looked wrong at you and there's people
are drunk and they have guns and make bad choices. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I think in some ways guns are like nuclear weapons,
you know, like we just don't nobody needs to have them,
but since they exist, there's this question of who needs
to have them and how many.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
That's exactly the goal here. We're not saying that guns
are bad or or you know, trying to infringe on
any ride. What we're trying to do is make making
it harder for criminals, for people who have shown to
(27:15):
be dangerous to not have easy access to guns, because
then it can turns into homicides and suicides and domestic
balance issues and all different kinds of issues that causing
deaths that could be prevented.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, definitely, most definitely. I know we're at the end
of our time. I want to give you a chance
to answer this question. You're the expert. I'm just really curious,
is there anything the audience needs to know that I
just didn't know to ask you about.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
That's a great question. I would say I would say
no in terms of content, but I do want to
say that every time that we're talking about gun balance
and gun death, and you know, we talk a lot
about research and statistics the research evidence, we need to
remember that each of these data points are a life lost,
(28:12):
and that creates many issues on families. There's always it
has to be someone's dad, or someone's sister or your
son who lost their life in a very preventable way
due to gun violence, and we have to be mindful
(28:34):
of what that creates in long term, and it cost
the health system a lot and law enforcement a lot.
So there's really a lot of effects that are not
necessarily ideal, and that's why we look at gun violence
from a public health perspective.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Gotcha, I really appreciate that. Thank you so much for
your time today and for sharing you know about this
new study. Can you plug that website one more time
for me so people can go check it out for themselves.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, So just look us up. We are the Center
for Gun Violent Solutions Jons Hopkins, and you can find
a lot of research there on different types of issues.
We also focus on other policy solutions that can reduce
gun violence. And that's it really awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Thank you so much for your time. I really do
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Thank you, Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Thanks for tuning into
the show on your favorite local radio station. You can
now listen to this show or past shows through the
iheartapp or on iHeart dot com. Just search for Virginia
Focus under podcasts. I'm Rebecca Hughes with a Virginia news network,
and I'll be here next week on Virginia Focus.
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