June 27, 2025 • 29 mins
Hundreds of thousands of workers frequently face outdoor hazards such as high heat and humidity. In the absence of laws in Virginia and other states for worker protections, Virginia's Department of Labor and Industry does have regulations and is actively developing new rules to address the issue. The American Society of Safety Professionals is also offering guidance on protecting workers, explainations on how to acclimate workers to high heat conditions, and provides requirements for training employees and supervisors. Let's learn more from Board President Pam Walaski.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
New Setwork. Hundreds of thousands of workers frequently face outdoor
hazards such as high heat and humidity, in the absence
of laws in Virginia and other states for worker protections.
Virginia's Department of Labor and Industry does have regulations and
is actively developing new rules to address the issue. The
(00:27):
American Society of Safety Professionals is also offering guidance on
protecting workers, explanations on how to acclimate workers to high
heat conditions, and providing requirements for training employees and supervisors.
Let's learn more from Board President Pam Mlawski. Welcome to
the show. I'm so glad you could be here today.
This is definitely a timely topic, so I think we
(00:50):
should jump right in.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thanks Rebecca. So, as you said, my name is Pam
Lawski and I'm currently the president of the Board of
Directors of the American Society of Safety Professionals. We are
the oldest society for safety professionals. We were found and
formed in nineteen eleven. We currently have roughly thirty six
(01:12):
thousand members all across the globe. Although primarily in North America,
and our members work in occupational safety in a wide
variety of industries, from construction to manufacturing, to healthcare, to
academia to public service, you name it, we do it.
If it involves workplace.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Safety, that's awesome. So today, what we're talking about are
the OSHA regulations. It's my understanding that they say that
if it's over eighty degrees, especially if the heat index
climbs to ninety, they have some things that they want
people to do for outdoor workers to help them avoid
(01:53):
heat related illnesses. Why don't you kind of tell us
a little bit about what those guidances are in and
when that went into place.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Sure, let me just clarify there is no current federal
standard from Federal OSHA on heat stress. There are some
recommendations that they've made, but there's no regulation that requires
an employer to take any kind of action. OSHA was
founded in nineteen seventy and at the time, the option
(02:23):
existed for states to run their own programs, and twenty
six states chose to do that, and state run programs
can have regulations that are over and above what federal
OSHA has. Right now, five of those states have their
own heat stress laws regulations, and that is Colorado, California, Minnesota, Oregon,
(02:46):
and Washington. But the rest of the forty five states
and the territories have no requirements for occupational safety regarding
heat stress.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And of those you listed, the only one that I
can think of that really has heat, at least the
way I know it because I grew up in the southeast,
would be California, like southern California. But the rest of those,
their heat is not what I know as heat, having
grown up in Georgia.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah. Absolutely, And as you know, California has a huge
agricultural industry, and that's really where the emphasis came from
developing that particular standard. And as you mentioned earlier, it
does kick in with certain types of temperature and humidity
criteria and with certain types of industries, and it really
is again for outdoor workers. So most of the country,
(03:36):
including places like Florida or Texas or Arizona where it
gets really hot Louisiana, they don't have a regulation that
requires an employee to protect workers from heat stress.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Okay, So that leads to me to my first question. Obviously,
I can see why there would be a push for
a federal regulation, considering that the states don't have one. However,
you know, if if somebody in I don't know, Michigan
(04:10):
or Maine or someplace up north, you know their heat,
they're not used to the heat that I'm used to.
So I'm going to be better suited to a higher
degree than they are having, you know, having had that.
And of course you wherever you move, you acclimate. How
(04:32):
do we determine what that should be? Or can we
not just make a rule that says, okay, states, you
have to do something.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Right, So OCEHAN does federal OSHAN does have a draft
rule that they have published and proposed. Right now, it
is still in draft and we don't know when or
if that rule will actually be published. So the members
of ASSP who law of us work in hot climates
(05:02):
or in other climates where heat stress is a problem, said,
you know, we really need to do something about this.
So we developed our own standard. It is a voluntary standard,
but it provides lots and lots of guidance for our
members or really anybody who works in high temperature environments,
whether it's year round or just during the summer months.
(05:24):
We published that standard recently because we really felt like
our members needed something to sort of give them the
best guidance, the best expertise that we could to help
them understand how to protect their workers. And that standard
has a number of different criteria. You were talking about
getting used to the heat, as you say, acclimatized to it,
(05:48):
and that's one of the things that are provided in
the standard. We provide guidance on developing a work rest cycle.
So in the beginning of the high temperatures, those rest
cycles are more often and longer, but as you get
used to the heat, you might be able to spread
those out. But it also takes into account things like
temperature and humidity and the intensity of the work effort,
(06:11):
which all impact how susceptible someone is to a heat
stress type of illness. Some of the other things that
are in the standard include hydration strategies that go beyond
just drinking water. It's really how much water, how often,
How to make sure your electrolyte balance is in place,
(06:33):
and how to tell whether or not you're drinking enough water.
If maybe you're not drinking enough water. What are some
of the indications. It gives recommendations on clothing and protective equipment,
you might think about working in the cold, you just
pile on another layer, but when you're working in the heat,
you don't have that option. There are clothes that can help,
(06:53):
or types of clothing or outfits if you will, that
can help mitigate the temperatures. And then last, the standard
talks about how to know when the efforts to protect
workers are not working, in other words, that they are
in a situation where they need professional medical attention, and
whether we need to take them to the urgent care
(07:13):
or whether we better call an ambulance because we are
dealing with a life threatening emergency. So those are some
of the basic things that are in our standard, and
again it is voluntary, but we believe that it gives
people who are trying to protect workers from heat stress
the best guidance that is out there on how to
reduce those kinds of tragic illnesses and injuries associated with it.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Okay, it sounds like it's pretty reasonable. I know, I
used to be a military wife, and you know, I
know over in the Middle East temperatures can be one
hundred and forty on over you know what I'm saying,
And is my understanding just from a basic Google search
that like Kuwait, for example, they have a ban on
(07:58):
working if it's above h in twenty two because they
get to one hundred and forty in the summertime, So
one hundred and twenty two is cool compared to one
hundred and.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Forty, right right.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And then of course there are other countries in that
area that you know, they have bands where you just
don't work from like eleven o'clock in the morning until
three or four in the afternoon, you know, that way
the heat of the day, you're inside, stuff like that,
And I'm glad those things exist, But I question where's
(08:30):
the humanity in this, because it's a shame that anybody,
an employer especially, would have to be regulated or told
how to be humane to other humans.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Well, so, obviously there are temperature extremes during which you
should not be working at all, and some of that
is what people would understand. I think it's a little
bit different than just treating people fairly. I think the
app rich person, even a person who is trained in
occupational safety, may not always understand exactly all of those
(09:07):
kinds of details about how to protect workers from heat stress,
and so our standard kind of gives them that guidance
that they may not have, they just may not know it,
and it gives them that kind of information that they need. Obviously,
they can do a Google search and come up with
some stuff, but our standards are developed by committees that
are made up of experts in the area, people who
(09:30):
study how to monitor temperature extremes and how it affects people,
people who have worked in hot climates, and that committee
gets together and they talk about the best practices and
the best known information, and together they write that standard,
which then gets published. So it's really the best information.
It's sort of that much much better information than a
(09:54):
Google search would give you. You can get basic stuff,
but our standard really goes above and beyond that. Because
you know, everybody knows when you're working, when you're outside
in the heat. You know, maybe you're doing some recreational activity,
you know you need to be careful. But what does
that exactly mean for somebody who's doing that forty fifty
sixty hours a week where they may be working in
(10:16):
those temperature extremes, And we know that people die from
it in work related injuries. We've had four hundred people
have died since twenty and eleven, according to the Federal
Bureau of Labor statistics, and there are thousands upon thousands
of people who have been seriously ill and have required
medical treatment as a result of their exposure. So our
(10:38):
hope is that the standard will provide sort of more
comprehensive and easily available guidance to people who supervise those
who are working in temperature extremes to really help them
mitigate that hazard. Because we can work in the heat.
We just need to know how.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. The statistics those are
for people who either suffered or passed away while working.
Do we have anything along the line of statistics for
people who did this, you know, who suffered or died
while recreational because that's where my that's where my stick is,
(11:17):
I guess. And the whole thing is, you know, if
I'm outside and I don't feel well, if I'm recreationally
doing something, then I don't have to ask anybody whether
I can go inside, or whether I can sit down,
or whether I can go get some water or whatever.
I just do it. And I feel like, you know,
(11:37):
if we were treating people the way people should treat people,
it would be the same thing when you were at work.
And now I understand some people will take advantage of that,
but on the mass, I would rather be taken advantage
of and know someone is safe than to have to
have a big brother over my shoulder and me watching
(11:58):
a thermometer and watching a clock, been watching this and
doing that, and it just sounds like a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I think. I think it's not so much a lot
of work. It's technical information that not everybody has. I mean,
you know you talked about people who are recreating who
maybe suffer from heat related stress. I mean every year
we see articles about people in Arizona, for example, who
decide to go for a hike in the heat of
(12:26):
the day and perish as a result of it. I mean,
there have been tragedies where families have passed away as
a result of exposure to the heat. So you think about, well,
I have this little bottle of water and I'm not
going to be gone that long and i should be fine.
Well that's you know, that may not be a very
(12:46):
smart strategy. But again, I would just reiterate, if you're
working forty fifty and sixty hours a day in the heat,
that's your job. That really puts you at a different
level of exposure and a higher level of risk. And
it isn't always common sense, if you will, for people
to know how often to rest and how much water
(13:08):
to drink. And there are tests that can be performed
to determine whether or not somebody is perhaps dehydrated or
moving in that direction. Not to be too graphic, but
we can tell by someone's urine whether or not they
have been drinking enough. Some companies pay attention to somebody's
(13:31):
weight at the beginning and the shift at the end
of the shift and monitor that way. There are some
very clear statistical guidelines that help us make those determinations.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Are there other ways that whether we're whether we are
recreating or whether we're at work, that people can know
how to, you know, when relating to each other, that
we can see that I think I heard one time
that if someone starts not making a lot a sense
when they're talking to you, that's one of the signs.
(14:02):
Are there others?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, that's definitely a sign. And so that's an important
part of understanding what the symptoms are because you may
not recognize, but the person who's with you hiking or
the person who's working next to you on the construction
site so disorientation and confusion is definitely a sign of
heat exhaustion, which can progress and get much worse. At
(14:29):
the early stages, heat exhaustion starts out with feeling very thirsty,
maybe a little headache or fatigue or muscle cramps, and
those are some of the early symptoms where you're really
at the point where resting drinking you can reverse that.
But at some point, when you get to being disoriented
(14:50):
or confused, now you're really in a dangerous zone. There's
a type of a heat related illness called heat stroke,
which is the most dead of the heat related illnesses,
and it's the same as any other kind of a stroke.
Your brain is not getting sufficient oxygen, and the system
(15:10):
that regulates your body's core temperature, which keeps it in
that range, which is actually a pretty narrow range of safety,
is not working, and so your body's core temperature is
heating up. And one of the most distinctive symptoms of
someone who is having a heat stroke is that their
skin is very red and hot and dry because they
(15:35):
stopped sweating, whereas somebody who is maybe having heat exhaustion,
their skin is probably going to be cool and wet
and clammy because they're still sweating. That part of their
body's system is still working. So when we teach people
about heat stress, one of the telltale symptoms is is
that person still sweating. If they are, then the situation
(15:58):
can be reversed. If they've stopped sweating, the only thing
that's going to keep them alive is medical attention. Once
that person has gotten to that part of heat stroke,
medical attention is emergently needed. Otherwise that person is likely
to perish as a result of that.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Okay, I like that. That's good to know, right, I
mean everybody should should know that. I mean, like you said,
not everybody does, but I hopefully this will educate at
least a few people. So does humidity have a huge
role in things like whether or not a person is
sweaty and whether or not, you know, they're going to
(16:37):
suffer more intensely with something like heat exhaustion or heat stroke.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
It does. And you know, we've all heard that phrase,
it's not the heat, it's the humidity, And that is
true certainly. Some of the sort of the three key
factors when we're evaluating somebody's risk in an occupational setting
is we look at temperature first. Obviously, even if it's
dry heat. If it's one hundred and thirty degrees, that's
(17:05):
still a dangerous temperature. We look at humidity and that
combination of temperature and humidity are important keeping those together.
We also think about whether or not the person is
in an opportunity to get shade. Occasionally we look at
wind speed, which might also help keep that person cool.
(17:26):
We look at things like the surface that they're working on,
is it grass or asphalt. Those are considerations, and then
from a workplace setting, we look at the intensity of
the activity that they're performing. The harder they're working, the
more physically demanding the tasks that they're performing, the greater
the risk they are at having exposure to heat related
(17:50):
illness and suffering from those symptoms. Those are the key
factors that we pay attention to. But you know, things
like your age, your personal factors like your age, your
health status. You know, if you have chronic medical conditions,
you might be more susceptible. Your fitness. If you're in
really good shape and really fit, you probably can sustain
(18:14):
higher temperatures better than others. So those are all also
individual factors that need to be taken into consideration. So
it's complicated. It's not as simple as saying, you know,
if you're hot, sit down, if you're thirsty, drink water.
It's a little bit more complicated than.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
That, okay. And would you say that HVAC systems heating
and cooling, especially the cooling part, has kind of changed
our tolerance to heat and made that exposure a little
more dangerous than maybe it used to be.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
You know, I'm not sure that I have ever seen
anything that would suggest that I personally have a house
that doesn't have air conditioning, so in the summer, you know,
it's hot, and I open the windows and put the
fans on and try to sleep at night. I do think,
you know, from friends and colleagues that I know that
live in temperatures where it gets very hot, like Arizona
(19:09):
or Florida, I know that they say that, you know,
in the really hot periods of the summer, they go
from their house to their car, from the car to
the shopping center or to work, and they don't spend
much time outside. So I think that's a problem. But
I do think what is more of an issue is that,
you know, we certainly know that there are climate change
(19:30):
issues that we're dealing with in terms of the increase
in temperatures, the length of time where we're exposed to
these kind of hot temperatures, and so those are all
issues that I think can exacerbate somebody's exposure to heat.
And again, if you're working outside, you don't have the
opportunity to sit inside air conditioning to help cool you off.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, that's definitely true. Would you say that people who
work outside in high density cities are more susceptible than
people in rural areas? And I ask that based on
the research we've seen about tree cover and how tree
canopy can offer cooler temperatures. And they're saying now that
(20:15):
a lot of cities that one of the best things
they can do not only for their crime rate, but
for the mental health and everything else is plant more
trees and have more green space, which also lowers the
amount of sunlight being reflected off all the asphalt and pavement.
Would you say that's something we worry about or.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Know from my experience certainly and from what I know
working in an area of a dense buildings and asphalt
and concrete, Yes, that does have a tendency to be warmer.
It also blocks any breezes that might be helping to
cool you off. In a rural environment, you may have
(20:54):
more tree cover which could help, but you could also
be out in the middle of the plant where there
is not much treat cover. And so again you have
to think about those unique aspects of where you are,
where you're working, and how they combine to create greater
or lesser risk of your exposure to heat stress, whether
(21:18):
you're working or playing or whatever it is that you do.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Okay, and would you walk us through a few of
the things that your group has come up with as
far as I know you mentioned, you know, as the
seasons are changing and we're starting to acclimate to more
and more heat, maybe that changes the amount of duration
of work or you know, things like that. Can you
give us some more details on that.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, certainly, the standard provides acclimatization schedules, if you will.
In general, very very generally, it can take someone up
to two weeks to acclimatize to working in a hot environment,
and so those schedules. Again, the work rest cycle, based
(22:06):
upon the various factors of exposure, can be used to
determine how long somebody should be working without rest, and
then gradually over time you can expand the amount of
work cycles and reduce the amount of rest cycles. And
so that can be a little complicated. You need to
look at different kinds of things like temperature and humidity,
(22:29):
as we've discussed before, which can help you figure those
cycles out. And again the hydration how much water how
often it depends upon what you're doing and making sure
that you're hydrated before you begin the work task. And
again paying attention to that electrolyte balance is also.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Important, okay, And would that also be applicable for even
let's say you have uniforms for people. You know, maybe
in the summertime you offer a moisture wicking or some
kind of different fabric than you do in the winter.
I know, you know a lot of the uniform companies,
you just get what you get and it's usually heavier,
(23:09):
you know what I'm saying. But maybe that should be
a part of it too, right.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
There are certainly types of clothing materials that help with
mitigating heat stress. Obviously, when you're working on a construction site,
you can't be in shorts and a T shirt because
that creates other hazards. But we do know that clothing
that is tight or creates friction on maybe your wrists
(23:35):
or around your waist can increase your risk to things
like heat rash, and so we pay attention to that
and again making sure that the clothing that you're wearing
is breathable and that sort of lightweight, breathable fabrics. You
certainly don't want to be wearing things like wool. You
want something that's going to, as you said, wick that
moisture away from your skin. There are less options for
(24:00):
clothing choices when you're working in a outdoor operation like
a construction area or perhaps in agriculture, but there are
some things that you do. For example, you might be
familiar with a hard hat that people wear to protect
their head. There are hard hats that are what we
call full brim, and so that hard hat brim goes
(24:21):
all the way around your head and not just in
the front, which is a more typical hard hat. And
what happens is that brim around the back helps protect
your neck. So most people don't cover their necks when
they're working. You might have a collared shirt on your
neck is exposed, and that full brim hard hat can
help protect your neck from exposure. Sunglasses sunscreen. All of
(24:46):
those are things that you can use to help mitigate
the effects in terms of clothing and personal protective equipment.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Okay, yeah, I'm drawn to my dad growing up when
you cut grass where he found this thing. But it
looks like a safari hat, so it has that wide
brim that you're talking about, but it also had a
solar panel on the top that powered a fan that
blew on his neck, and I think everybody should have that.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Absolutely, absolutely well. And there are ways to have those
kinds of fans. I've seen those before, those sort of
individual personal fans to help cool you off. It's probably
more of a challenge when you're you know, when you're
installing rebar or working on a crane to have a
little personal fan in front of you. But you know,
(25:33):
there are some things that you can do to help
protect yourself. But again, that idea of the safari hat,
the full brim hat is exactly the concept that we're
talking about because it helps protect And some people would say,
you know, wearing a hat makes you feel hotter, but
you have to balance what wearing a hat does that
is the proper material versus not wearing a hat at all,
(25:56):
which exposes your head to the rays.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Of the sun, right, definitely, And out of curiosity, are
there different rules or do the rules are they able
to be adjusted at all for women who are going
through perimenopause at menopause, because you know when that hot
flash comes on and you feel the big power surge
come in. It could be the dead of winter and
(26:20):
you're hot. Is that being part of the consideration or no.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
There are a number of more vulnerable populations, as you expressed.
One example is somebody who is paramount apausal. But pregnant
workers are another group of workers that deserve some additional
protections or at least some attention to their ability to
(26:46):
work in the heat. So the standard does give guidance
on how to make adjustments for more vulnerable populations.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Okay, awesome. So I'm curious and you're the expert and
we are up on the end of our time, but
I want to ask you, is there anything the audience
needs to know that I didn't ask you about.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
I guess you know. It's just that that we see
people pass away every year as a result of their
exposure to heat, whether it's recreationally or working. And it
doesn't have to be we know how to protect you.
It requires that you educate yourself. And one of assp's
missions is to provide educational resources for occupacial safety professionals
(27:33):
to help them do their job. And so our hope
is that this standard that we've developed in some of
the other guidance that we have at our website will
help provide folks with the way that they can protect
workers who are exposed to outdoor environments.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Okay, that's wonderful, and can you give us a website
where we can read more.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I'm glad you asked. The website is ASSP dot org,
and if you certainly put in the search for heat
stress or heat illnesses, you'll see all of the different
resources that we have, but you'll also see some of
the other things that we have that are related that
are not related to heat stress. We provide tons and
tons of different resources for people who are involved in
(28:16):
occupational safety.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
That's awesome, awesome, and that website one more.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Time, a s SP dot org.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show
and for you know, talking to me about all these things.
I know they're all very important, and I did want
to play a little Devil's advocate with you. I hope
you didn't mind, just you know, because some people do
try to brush it off and they're like, oh, it's
not a big deal, and it can be a big deal.
Like you said, people die and they don't have to.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Absolutely and you know, people die every year, and our goal,
our mission is to make sure that everybody gets the
information that they need to protect themselves. So we appreciate
you eliminate aiding this particular issue and taking the time
to talk with me about it.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Thanks for tuning into
the show on your favorite local radio station. You can
now listen to this show or past shows through the
iheartapp or on iHeart dot com. Just search for Virginia
Focus under podcasts. I'm Rebecca Hughes with a Virginia news network,
and I'll be here next week on Virginia Focus.
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
New Setwork. Hundreds of thousands of workers frequently face outdoor
hazards such as high heat and humidity, in the absence
of laws in Virginia and other states for worker protections.
Virginia's Department of Labor and Industry does have regulations and
is actively developing new rules to address the issue. The
(00:27):
American Society of Safety Professionals is also offering guidance on
protecting workers, explanations on how to acclimate workers to high
heat conditions, and providing requirements for training employees and supervisors.
Let's learn more from Board President Pam Mlawski. Welcome to
the show. I'm so glad you could be here today.
This is definitely a timely topic, so I think we
(00:50):
should jump right in.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thanks Rebecca. So, as you said, my name is Pam
Lawski and I'm currently the president of the Board of
Directors of the American Society of Safety Professionals. We are
the oldest society for safety professionals. We were found and
formed in nineteen eleven. We currently have roughly thirty six
(01:12):
thousand members all across the globe. Although primarily in North America,
and our members work in occupational safety in a wide
variety of industries, from construction to manufacturing, to healthcare, to
academia to public service, you name it, we do it.
If it involves workplace.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Safety, that's awesome. So today, what we're talking about are
the OSHA regulations. It's my understanding that they say that
if it's over eighty degrees, especially if the heat index
climbs to ninety, they have some things that they want
people to do for outdoor workers to help them avoid
(01:53):
heat related illnesses. Why don't you kind of tell us
a little bit about what those guidances are in and
when that went into place.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Sure, let me just clarify there is no current federal
standard from Federal OSHA on heat stress. There are some
recommendations that they've made, but there's no regulation that requires
an employer to take any kind of action. OSHA was
founded in nineteen seventy and at the time, the option
(02:23):
existed for states to run their own programs, and twenty
six states chose to do that, and state run programs
can have regulations that are over and above what federal
OSHA has. Right now, five of those states have their
own heat stress laws regulations, and that is Colorado, California, Minnesota, Oregon,
(02:46):
and Washington. But the rest of the forty five states
and the territories have no requirements for occupational safety regarding
heat stress.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And of those you listed, the only one that I
can think of that really has heat, at least the
way I know it because I grew up in the southeast,
would be California, like southern California. But the rest of those,
their heat is not what I know as heat, having
grown up in Georgia.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah. Absolutely, And as you know, California has a huge
agricultural industry, and that's really where the emphasis came from
developing that particular standard. And as you mentioned earlier, it
does kick in with certain types of temperature and humidity
criteria and with certain types of industries, and it really
is again for outdoor workers. So most of the country,
(03:36):
including places like Florida or Texas or Arizona where it
gets really hot Louisiana, they don't have a regulation that
requires an employee to protect workers from heat stress.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Okay, So that leads to me to my first question. Obviously,
I can see why there would be a push for
a federal regulation, considering that the states don't have one. However,
you know, if if somebody in I don't know, Michigan
(04:10):
or Maine or someplace up north, you know their heat,
they're not used to the heat that I'm used to.
So I'm going to be better suited to a higher
degree than they are having, you know, having had that.
And of course you wherever you move, you acclimate. How
(04:32):
do we determine what that should be? Or can we
not just make a rule that says, okay, states, you
have to do something.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Right, So OCEHAN does federal OSHAN does have a draft
rule that they have published and proposed. Right now, it
is still in draft and we don't know when or
if that rule will actually be published. So the members
of ASSP who law of us work in hot climates
(05:02):
or in other climates where heat stress is a problem, said,
you know, we really need to do something about this.
So we developed our own standard. It is a voluntary standard,
but it provides lots and lots of guidance for our
members or really anybody who works in high temperature environments,
whether it's year round or just during the summer months.
(05:24):
We published that standard recently because we really felt like
our members needed something to sort of give them the
best guidance, the best expertise that we could to help
them understand how to protect their workers. And that standard
has a number of different criteria. You were talking about
getting used to the heat, as you say, acclimatized to it,
(05:48):
and that's one of the things that are provided in
the standard. We provide guidance on developing a work rest cycle.
So in the beginning of the high temperatures, those rest
cycles are more often and longer, but as you get
used to the heat, you might be able to spread
those out. But it also takes into account things like
temperature and humidity and the intensity of the work effort,
(06:11):
which all impact how susceptible someone is to a heat
stress type of illness. Some of the other things that
are in the standard include hydration strategies that go beyond
just drinking water. It's really how much water, how often,
How to make sure your electrolyte balance is in place,
(06:33):
and how to tell whether or not you're drinking enough water.
If maybe you're not drinking enough water. What are some
of the indications. It gives recommendations on clothing and protective equipment,
you might think about working in the cold, you just
pile on another layer, but when you're working in the heat,
you don't have that option. There are clothes that can help,
(06:53):
or types of clothing or outfits if you will, that
can help mitigate the temperatures. And then last, the standard
talks about how to know when the efforts to protect
workers are not working, in other words, that they are
in a situation where they need professional medical attention, and
whether we need to take them to the urgent care
(07:13):
or whether we better call an ambulance because we are
dealing with a life threatening emergency. So those are some
of the basic things that are in our standard, and
again it is voluntary, but we believe that it gives
people who are trying to protect workers from heat stress
the best guidance that is out there on how to
reduce those kinds of tragic illnesses and injuries associated with it.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Okay, it sounds like it's pretty reasonable. I know, I
used to be a military wife, and you know, I
know over in the Middle East temperatures can be one
hundred and forty on over you know what I'm saying,
And is my understanding just from a basic Google search
that like Kuwait, for example, they have a ban on
(07:58):
working if it's above h in twenty two because they
get to one hundred and forty in the summertime, So
one hundred and twenty two is cool compared to one
hundred and.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Forty, right right.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And then of course there are other countries in that
area that you know, they have bands where you just
don't work from like eleven o'clock in the morning until
three or four in the afternoon, you know, that way
the heat of the day, you're inside, stuff like that,
And I'm glad those things exist, But I question where's
(08:30):
the humanity in this, because it's a shame that anybody,
an employer especially, would have to be regulated or told
how to be humane to other humans.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Well, so, obviously there are temperature extremes during which you
should not be working at all, and some of that
is what people would understand. I think it's a little
bit different than just treating people fairly. I think the
app rich person, even a person who is trained in
occupational safety, may not always understand exactly all of those
(09:07):
kinds of details about how to protect workers from heat stress,
and so our standard kind of gives them that guidance
that they may not have, they just may not know it,
and it gives them that kind of information that they need. Obviously,
they can do a Google search and come up with
some stuff, but our standards are developed by committees that
are made up of experts in the area, people who
(09:30):
study how to monitor temperature extremes and how it affects people,
people who have worked in hot climates, and that committee
gets together and they talk about the best practices and
the best known information, and together they write that standard,
which then gets published. So it's really the best information.
It's sort of that much much better information than a
(09:54):
Google search would give you. You can get basic stuff,
but our standard really goes above and beyond that. Because
you know, everybody knows when you're working, when you're outside
in the heat. You know, maybe you're doing some recreational activity,
you know you need to be careful. But what does
that exactly mean for somebody who's doing that forty fifty
sixty hours a week where they may be working in
(10:16):
those temperature extremes, And we know that people die from
it in work related injuries. We've had four hundred people
have died since twenty and eleven, according to the Federal
Bureau of Labor statistics, and there are thousands upon thousands
of people who have been seriously ill and have required
medical treatment as a result of their exposure. So our
(10:38):
hope is that the standard will provide sort of more
comprehensive and easily available guidance to people who supervise those
who are working in temperature extremes to really help them
mitigate that hazard. Because we can work in the heat.
We just need to know how.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. The statistics those are
for people who either suffered or passed away while working.
Do we have anything along the line of statistics for
people who did this, you know, who suffered or died
while recreational because that's where my that's where my stick is,
(11:17):
I guess. And the whole thing is, you know, if
I'm outside and I don't feel well, if I'm recreationally
doing something, then I don't have to ask anybody whether
I can go inside, or whether I can sit down,
or whether I can go get some water or whatever.
I just do it. And I feel like, you know,
(11:37):
if we were treating people the way people should treat people,
it would be the same thing when you were at work.
And now I understand some people will take advantage of that,
but on the mass, I would rather be taken advantage
of and know someone is safe than to have to
have a big brother over my shoulder and me watching
(11:58):
a thermometer and watching a clock, been watching this and
doing that, and it just sounds like a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I think. I think it's not so much a lot
of work. It's technical information that not everybody has. I mean,
you know you talked about people who are recreating who
maybe suffer from heat related stress. I mean every year
we see articles about people in Arizona, for example, who
decide to go for a hike in the heat of
(12:26):
the day and perish as a result of it. I mean,
there have been tragedies where families have passed away as
a result of exposure to the heat. So you think about, well,
I have this little bottle of water and I'm not
going to be gone that long and i should be fine.
Well that's you know, that may not be a very
(12:46):
smart strategy. But again, I would just reiterate, if you're
working forty fifty and sixty hours a day in the heat,
that's your job. That really puts you at a different
level of exposure and a higher level of risk. And
it isn't always common sense, if you will, for people
to know how often to rest and how much water
(13:08):
to drink. And there are tests that can be performed
to determine whether or not somebody is perhaps dehydrated or
moving in that direction. Not to be too graphic, but
we can tell by someone's urine whether or not they
have been drinking enough. Some companies pay attention to somebody's
(13:31):
weight at the beginning and the shift at the end
of the shift and monitor that way. There are some
very clear statistical guidelines that help us make those determinations.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Are there other ways that whether we're whether we are
recreating or whether we're at work, that people can know
how to, you know, when relating to each other, that
we can see that I think I heard one time
that if someone starts not making a lot a sense
when they're talking to you, that's one of the signs.
(14:02):
Are there others?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, that's definitely a sign. And so that's an important
part of understanding what the symptoms are because you may
not recognize, but the person who's with you hiking or
the person who's working next to you on the construction
site so disorientation and confusion is definitely a sign of
heat exhaustion, which can progress and get much worse. At
(14:29):
the early stages, heat exhaustion starts out with feeling very thirsty,
maybe a little headache or fatigue or muscle cramps, and
those are some of the early symptoms where you're really
at the point where resting drinking you can reverse that.
But at some point, when you get to being disoriented
(14:50):
or confused, now you're really in a dangerous zone. There's
a type of a heat related illness called heat stroke,
which is the most dead of the heat related illnesses,
and it's the same as any other kind of a stroke.
Your brain is not getting sufficient oxygen, and the system
(15:10):
that regulates your body's core temperature, which keeps it in
that range, which is actually a pretty narrow range of safety,
is not working, and so your body's core temperature is
heating up. And one of the most distinctive symptoms of
someone who is having a heat stroke is that their
skin is very red and hot and dry because they
(15:35):
stopped sweating, whereas somebody who is maybe having heat exhaustion,
their skin is probably going to be cool and wet
and clammy because they're still sweating. That part of their
body's system is still working. So when we teach people
about heat stress, one of the telltale symptoms is is
that person still sweating. If they are, then the situation
(15:58):
can be reversed. If they've stopped sweating, the only thing
that's going to keep them alive is medical attention. Once
that person has gotten to that part of heat stroke,
medical attention is emergently needed. Otherwise that person is likely
to perish as a result of that.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Okay, I like that. That's good to know, right, I
mean everybody should should know that. I mean, like you said,
not everybody does, but I hopefully this will educate at
least a few people. So does humidity have a huge
role in things like whether or not a person is
sweaty and whether or not, you know, they're going to
(16:37):
suffer more intensely with something like heat exhaustion or heat stroke.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
It does. And you know, we've all heard that phrase,
it's not the heat, it's the humidity, And that is
true certainly. Some of the sort of the three key
factors when we're evaluating somebody's risk in an occupational setting
is we look at temperature first. Obviously, even if it's
dry heat. If it's one hundred and thirty degrees, that's
(17:05):
still a dangerous temperature. We look at humidity and that
combination of temperature and humidity are important keeping those together.
We also think about whether or not the person is
in an opportunity to get shade. Occasionally we look at
wind speed, which might also help keep that person cool.
(17:26):
We look at things like the surface that they're working on,
is it grass or asphalt. Those are considerations, and then
from a workplace setting, we look at the intensity of
the activity that they're performing. The harder they're working, the
more physically demanding the tasks that they're performing, the greater
the risk they are at having exposure to heat related
(17:50):
illness and suffering from those symptoms. Those are the key
factors that we pay attention to. But you know, things
like your age, your personal factors like your age, your
health status. You know, if you have chronic medical conditions,
you might be more susceptible. Your fitness. If you're in
really good shape and really fit, you probably can sustain
(18:14):
higher temperatures better than others. So those are all also
individual factors that need to be taken into consideration. So
it's complicated. It's not as simple as saying, you know,
if you're hot, sit down, if you're thirsty, drink water.
It's a little bit more complicated than.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
That, okay. And would you say that HVAC systems heating
and cooling, especially the cooling part, has kind of changed
our tolerance to heat and made that exposure a little
more dangerous than maybe it used to be.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
You know, I'm not sure that I have ever seen
anything that would suggest that I personally have a house
that doesn't have air conditioning, so in the summer, you know,
it's hot, and I open the windows and put the
fans on and try to sleep at night. I do think,
you know, from friends and colleagues that I know that
live in temperatures where it gets very hot, like Arizona
(19:09):
or Florida, I know that they say that, you know,
in the really hot periods of the summer, they go
from their house to their car, from the car to
the shopping center or to work, and they don't spend
much time outside. So I think that's a problem. But
I do think what is more of an issue is that,
you know, we certainly know that there are climate change
(19:30):
issues that we're dealing with in terms of the increase
in temperatures, the length of time where we're exposed to
these kind of hot temperatures, and so those are all
issues that I think can exacerbate somebody's exposure to heat.
And again, if you're working outside, you don't have the
opportunity to sit inside air conditioning to help cool you off.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, that's definitely true. Would you say that people who
work outside in high density cities are more susceptible than
people in rural areas? And I ask that based on
the research we've seen about tree cover and how tree
canopy can offer cooler temperatures. And they're saying now that
(20:15):
a lot of cities that one of the best things
they can do not only for their crime rate, but
for the mental health and everything else is plant more
trees and have more green space, which also lowers the
amount of sunlight being reflected off all the asphalt and pavement.
Would you say that's something we worry about or.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Know from my experience certainly and from what I know
working in an area of a dense buildings and asphalt
and concrete, Yes, that does have a tendency to be warmer.
It also blocks any breezes that might be helping to
cool you off. In a rural environment, you may have
(20:54):
more tree cover which could help, but you could also
be out in the middle of the plant where there
is not much treat cover. And so again you have
to think about those unique aspects of where you are,
where you're working, and how they combine to create greater
or lesser risk of your exposure to heat stress, whether
(21:18):
you're working or playing or whatever it is that you do.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Okay, and would you walk us through a few of
the things that your group has come up with as
far as I know you mentioned, you know, as the
seasons are changing and we're starting to acclimate to more
and more heat, maybe that changes the amount of duration
of work or you know, things like that. Can you
give us some more details on that.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, certainly, the standard provides acclimatization schedules, if you will.
In general, very very generally, it can take someone up
to two weeks to acclimatize to working in a hot environment,
and so those schedules. Again, the work rest cycle, based
(22:06):
upon the various factors of exposure, can be used to
determine how long somebody should be working without rest, and
then gradually over time you can expand the amount of
work cycles and reduce the amount of rest cycles. And
so that can be a little complicated. You need to
look at different kinds of things like temperature and humidity,
(22:29):
as we've discussed before, which can help you figure those
cycles out. And again the hydration how much water how
often it depends upon what you're doing and making sure
that you're hydrated before you begin the work task. And
again paying attention to that electrolyte balance is also.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Important, okay, And would that also be applicable for even
let's say you have uniforms for people. You know, maybe
in the summertime you offer a moisture wicking or some
kind of different fabric than you do in the winter.
I know, you know a lot of the uniform companies,
you just get what you get and it's usually heavier,
(23:09):
you know what I'm saying. But maybe that should be
a part of it too, right.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
There are certainly types of clothing materials that help with
mitigating heat stress. Obviously, when you're working on a construction site,
you can't be in shorts and a T shirt because
that creates other hazards. But we do know that clothing
that is tight or creates friction on maybe your wrists
(23:35):
or around your waist can increase your risk to things
like heat rash, and so we pay attention to that
and again making sure that the clothing that you're wearing
is breathable and that sort of lightweight, breathable fabrics. You
certainly don't want to be wearing things like wool. You
want something that's going to, as you said, wick that
moisture away from your skin. There are less options for
(24:00):
clothing choices when you're working in a outdoor operation like
a construction area or perhaps in agriculture, but there are
some things that you do. For example, you might be
familiar with a hard hat that people wear to protect
their head. There are hard hats that are what we
call full brim, and so that hard hat brim goes
(24:21):
all the way around your head and not just in
the front, which is a more typical hard hat. And
what happens is that brim around the back helps protect
your neck. So most people don't cover their necks when
they're working. You might have a collared shirt on your
neck is exposed, and that full brim hard hat can
help protect your neck from exposure. Sunglasses sunscreen. All of
(24:46):
those are things that you can use to help mitigate
the effects in terms of clothing and personal protective equipment.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Okay, yeah, I'm drawn to my dad growing up when
you cut grass where he found this thing. But it
looks like a safari hat, so it has that wide
brim that you're talking about, but it also had a
solar panel on the top that powered a fan that
blew on his neck, and I think everybody should have that.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Absolutely, absolutely well. And there are ways to have those
kinds of fans. I've seen those before, those sort of
individual personal fans to help cool you off. It's probably
more of a challenge when you're you know, when you're
installing rebar or working on a crane to have a
little personal fan in front of you. But you know,
(25:33):
there are some things that you can do to help
protect yourself. But again, that idea of the safari hat,
the full brim hat is exactly the concept that we're
talking about because it helps protect And some people would say,
you know, wearing a hat makes you feel hotter, but
you have to balance what wearing a hat does that
is the proper material versus not wearing a hat at all,
(25:56):
which exposes your head to the rays.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Of the sun, right, definitely, And out of curiosity, are
there different rules or do the rules are they able
to be adjusted at all for women who are going
through perimenopause at menopause, because you know when that hot
flash comes on and you feel the big power surge
come in. It could be the dead of winter and
(26:20):
you're hot. Is that being part of the consideration or no.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
There are a number of more vulnerable populations, as you expressed.
One example is somebody who is paramount apausal. But pregnant
workers are another group of workers that deserve some additional
protections or at least some attention to their ability to
(26:46):
work in the heat. So the standard does give guidance
on how to make adjustments for more vulnerable populations.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Okay, awesome. So I'm curious and you're the expert and
we are up on the end of our time, but
I want to ask you, is there anything the audience
needs to know that I didn't ask you about.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
I guess you know. It's just that that we see
people pass away every year as a result of their
exposure to heat, whether it's recreationally or working. And it
doesn't have to be we know how to protect you.
It requires that you educate yourself. And one of assp's
missions is to provide educational resources for occupacial safety professionals
(27:33):
to help them do their job. And so our hope
is that this standard that we've developed in some of
the other guidance that we have at our website will
help provide folks with the way that they can protect
workers who are exposed to outdoor environments.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Okay, that's wonderful, and can you give us a website
where we can read more.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I'm glad you asked. The website is ASSP dot org,
and if you certainly put in the search for heat
stress or heat illnesses, you'll see all of the different
resources that we have, but you'll also see some of
the other things that we have that are related that
are not related to heat stress. We provide tons and
tons of different resources for people who are involved in
(28:16):
occupational safety.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
That's awesome, awesome, and that website one more.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Time, a s SP dot org.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show
and for you know, talking to me about all these things.
I know they're all very important, and I did want
to play a little Devil's advocate with you. I hope
you didn't mind, just you know, because some people do
try to brush it off and they're like, oh, it's
not a big deal, and it can be a big deal.
Like you said, people die and they don't have to.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Absolutely and you know, people die every year, and our goal,
our mission is to make sure that everybody gets the
information that they need to protect themselves. So we appreciate
you eliminate aiding this particular issue and taking the time
to talk with me about it.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Thanks for tuning into
the show on your favorite local radio station. You can
now listen to this show or past shows through the
iheartapp or on iHeart dot com. Just search for Virginia
Focus under podcasts. I'm Rebecca Hughes with a Virginia news network,
and I'll be here next week on Virginia Focus.
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