April 25, 2025 • 30 mins
April is National Stress Awareness Month and what better time to talk to a Neurologist who can explains how stress literally hurts. Between work and family pressure, financial burdens, constant social media exposure, political strife and more some surveys find as many as 62% people experience stress weekly. Neurologist Dr. Ella Akkerman with the Virginia Spine Institute breaks it all down for us.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
News Network. April is National Stress Awareness Month, and what
better time to talk to a neurologist who can explain
how stress literally hurts between work and family pressure, financial burdens,
constant social media exposure, political strife, and more. Some surveys
(00:27):
find as many as sixty two percent of people experience
stress weekly. Neurologist doctor Ella Ackerman, with a Virginia Spine Institute,
breaks it all down for us. Welcome to the show,
doctor Ackerman. I am so glad you could talk to
us about stress and how it affects us.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So let's start out by talking about the fact that
you are a neurologist, and if anybody's unclear what that means,
why don't you kind of give us a synopsis of
what you do.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Absolutely so, neurologists die, diagnose, and treat disorders of central
and peripheral nervous system, which sounds very vague, right. So
our central nervous system is our brain and our spinal
cord and our peripheral nervous system are all the nerves
that come out from the spinal cord and brain and
(01:19):
then go to our muscles. So neurologists often also treat
disease of a muscle as well.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, so today we're talking about the recent survey with
showing how people are experiencing a lot of stress and
that stress can literally cause pain in the body. Why
don't you tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Absolutely, so I tell my patients. Brain is our most
sensitive organ, right, That's what feels whatever is going on
inside and outside of our world, and as a result,
it transmits signals to the rest of our body to
(01:59):
dictate what our body should feel like and how it
should be. It's a master or mind, no pun intended. Yeah, So,
when we're under chronic stress, we experience negative emotions, and
those negative emotions are sensed by a structure called amygdala
(02:19):
in our brain, which talks directly to another structure called hypothalamus,
which is a chemical plant of the brain and the body.
That's what starts the chemical processes and chemical balance in
our bodies. It starts in hypothalamus and it sends chemical
(02:41):
signals to the rest of our brain and to the
body to produce either happy chemicals or unhappy chemicals. And
that's where the cascade starts, and that's where the pain starts.
If the hypothamus sends one signal, the serotonin, which is
a happy chemical, goes up. We feel happy, we are relaxed.
(03:06):
Our endorphins get released, which are netyl chemicals in the
body that actually decrease pain, and we feel wonderful. But
if we are unhappy and maybe delatoxo hypothalamus, it sends signal,
serotonin goes down. Stress hormones get released out of our
adrenal glands in the body, and there's a fight of
(03:27):
life response we get. Hence, we get very Our heart
rate goes up, our blood breath goes up, our sleep
quality drops, and we start sensing pain much quicker. Our
pain threshcol goes down, and that leads to basically a
(03:47):
cycle of pain and stress, which eventually outstretches our nervous
system and can lead to burnout.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Wow, that's a lot to take in. So the cortisol
that we hear about all the time, that's the stress
hormone you were talking about that comes from the adrenal gland.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Correct, It's a downstream signal that starts in our brain. Okay,
in our brain, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So what kind of things have you done to learn
all this? I mean, do you put people you know
in a machine and scan their brain and then stress
them out?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Like?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
How do we learn all of this?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, it starts in neuroscience, right, it starts in bench
bench research. Right? How did neuroscientists find out all these
things about the brain we know today? How did we
learn all these things about the body we know today?
It started decades centuries ago with people going and dissecting animals,
(04:45):
cadavers and just you know, cutting the brains and doing
chemical experiments to figure out what leads to what, what
goes where. But thankfully, in today's world, we'll have technology
like functional MR, for example, which can tune in into
specific molecules that you can trace and how those molecules
(05:08):
get released and when under which circumstances. It's much it's
much less invasive these days, thankfully, and much less labor
intensive in many ways. But in many ways, some people
still do you know, basic adventure research to continue figuring
this stuff out.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Okay, all right, that's that that makes sense to me.
So how do things like maybe mental health struggles bipolar
or schizophrenia, or even things like ADHD and autism. How
did those factor in when we're talking about stress and
how stress can actually affect the body.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, So there is such an idea as pull meostasis,
which is a fancy, fancy term for a bat right.
There is a balance of everything in the body. It's
a chemical balance, it's a physiological balance, it's an emotional balance, right,
(06:11):
And so when we start having any kind of illness,
whether it's a mental illness, whether it's a physical illness,
we disrupt that balance, right, and so right away that
puts stress on our bodies. Whenever our bodies are or
minds are out of balance. And so all the illnesses
(06:34):
you mentioned, they are mental either disabilities or illnesses, which
certainly do disrupt the balance, and that really can lead
to stress. And there's the cascade that I mentioned earlier
that you know, when you're under chronic stress, you're most
susceptible to having more pain. So as a result, they
(06:55):
can be call morbidities as we call them in medicine,
or conditions that basically are found alongside with other conditions.
And so yes, people with mental illness or any chronic
illness have a greater chance of developing pain.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay, so it does increase the likelihood of them feeling
that physical pain if, like you said, if things aren't balanced,
and you said that that could be physical as well, right,
So like if you have diabetes, then that also raises it.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Absolutely, absolutely anything any chronic illness that can like I explained,
any chronic illness puts the stress on the body.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh okay, so let me ask you this. Clearly, you're
the specialist of the brain, and I love that you
have that understanding that it all works together. Unfortunately, in
our modern medicine that's not always the case. Sometimes people
will specialize in something and you know, they'll just treat
(07:59):
the symptom of that thing, whereas maybe, like you said,
it may have something to do with other things going
on in the body that if you treated that it
would solve the problem instead of just being on medication forever.
Is there any kind of research being done from that
perspective of the body as a whole and as patients.
(08:21):
How do we navigate the healthcare system with that thought
in mind?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Oh, you're so right, You're so right. So in an
ideal world, right, we would have one large system of
healthcare that doesn't just say, oh, we're going to take
of the person as a whole. But they actually do
that very effectively, but in.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
The real world it's hard.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I think when Obamacare started, that was the idea, right,
let's create these accountable care organizations, because by doing that
you kind of will pay attention to multiple systems of
the person's body, and then old doctors will be accountable
for taking care of the patient as a whole, not
just their piece of what they're doing. Right, So, our
(09:14):
healthcare system tried to help us as physicians work together
as a team Kaiser Permanenta, where I used to work
before but now I work for VSI. But their model
of care was to, you know, take off the patient
as a whole, and still is, and then the acos
tried to model it, and I continue modeling it and
(09:37):
I joined Geiser. But it's not because you know, I
wanted to be there forever, but it's just because I
saw that they were doing what I naturally felt needed
to be done, taking up the patient as a whole.
But I continue to do that. Really, it's a personal
choice on many levels for physicians, because some physicians are
(09:59):
more compartmentalized thinkers and some are more global thinkers. Right,
people who go into fields of such as internal medicine,
family medicine, primary care.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
They probably as.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Primary care physicians are more of global thinkers, right, because
they're forced to they have to think of all the
different systems. But then the specialists, right, they tend to
be more compartmentalized thinkers. And so I think that patients
need to understand what each doctor does, well, what their
role is. That's where it starts education. Like, for example,
(10:37):
I give my patients an example of cars, because cars
are easier to understand than human bodies. And I say, well,
if you've had a problem with a dent in your car,
would you go to diffilube, you know where you usually
go to get oil chained? No? No, you wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Write.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So you have to understand the role of each physician
and their education and their expertise and their representation on
your healthcare team. That you build yourself as a patient.
To understand your resources, to understand how to use these
resources to your advantage. That's where it starts. And I
(11:20):
think that you know, we educate people a lot in
this country on many different levels, and there there's curricula
for all sorts of things in high school and in college,
But just as we're now developing curricula for kids to
(11:41):
learn how to use their money more more efficiently and effectively,
and how to save and how to do those things
and explain to them how banking system works and everything,
I think we need to start teaching our kids as
young adults in their curricula how to use healthcare system
(12:02):
effectively to their advantage. Not just teach them about stress,
not just teach them how to be healthy, but how
to use their resources in the healthcare system in the
United States of America.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I love that. I agree with that so much because
you think about it, and I'm guilty of this. You know,
you start a job, you get an insurance card, right,
and you sign up for the insurance. You get a card. Okay,
I've moved to a new town. I need a doctor.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
You go either to the insurance website or to the
phone book, and you find whoever's on your plan and
you just make an appointment. You don't talk to that
doctor to learn you know about them, what is their philosophy,
and if they refer you to a specialist again, you
don't interview them and be like, hey, you know, tell
me about what kind of care you provide and you
(12:51):
just kind of go with the flow and you just
do what you're told. And I guess what you're saying is,
because doctors can be so different and have such different approaches,
it's better to have that understanding before you actually go
see them, right.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Absolutely, and then you can be more effective as your
own healthcare advocate. You know, understanding your health, learning about
your health, yes, but also how to use the system.
I think that that's very important.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I love that in today's world, you know, mental health
is at forefront, especially for kids, and a lot of
times when you think mental health treatment, you think counseling,
you think psychiatry, but I think neuroscience should play a
role in helping with mental health, and it doesn't always
(13:45):
do that. Do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I do.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I think that psychiatrists and neurologists and psychologists would work
closer together, especially in under the situation, in the situations
when you are dealing with a developing brain and newer
developmental centers do exist, but I don't think people are
(14:12):
as aware of them. And then again, that's exactly what
I'm talking about. We as patients need to be educated
about what's out there, right, And there are things called
neuropsychological assessments that are done and they're required right in
schools for the purpose of determining which child which needs
(14:34):
what type of curriculum approach, and so on and so forth.
But then sometimes it's also done outside of the school
as well, and usually that's how you channel a child
that who is having difficulties either in mental illness sense,
or behavioral difficulties or learning difficulties. That's where the process start.
(14:56):
But you're absolutely right, that's necessary and it does happen.
We do have centers for like I explained, newer developmental
difficulties issues that can combine all of those problems that
need to be solved.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, and I love that you pointed that out about
a developing brain because and you can tell me because
I may have my information wrong, but it's my understanding
that the brain is not fully developed and created all
of the synapses and connections that it's going to do
until we're in our twenties.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Right, correct, late in our twenties, late in our twenties,
and so.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Like that's the reason children process information differently and may
even have a memory of something in their childhood that's
different than what the reality was.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Well, also, it's our intelligence how we interpret the facts
and our knowledge. Right.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
We may we may have interpreted.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It's just like reading a book. If you read a
book or a novel that was a childhood novel at
the age of six, let's say, and then you rereaded
at twelve, and then you reretted at twenty five, you
would probably gain something different in the time you read it.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
That's true. That's very true.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Right, fun and fun On one level it's fun and
another level it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
And yeah, so the same thing.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
You know, the experiences we have, we interpret them one
way at age of five, or when we're teenagers, or
when we're adults, and we may still interpret them later
differently when we let's say, we're faced with some new
experiences that made us gain a new perspective.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
True, that's very true. So are we seeing an increase?
I mean, obviously our ultimate topic here is stress in
the body and the effect that you know, physical pain.
Did I feel children are also starting to encounter this,
aren't they?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Absolutely? I do think that, and I don't think COVID
helped unfortunately, Right, Yeah, we really we isolated our society
from each other, you know, from the human touch, from
the human interaction in person interaction, which still critical for
(17:25):
normal development, right, especially.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
In those early ages. So the kids that were born
just before and during COVID, I think are going to
have the most trouble because those are your most critical
development years, especially that year from two years old to
three years old is my understanding, that's kind of the
make it or break it year for most people.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
The good news is kids are so resilient and they
are still developing, and so unless it was a really
traumatic event that they underwent during those years, I think
we as parents, as educators, as doctors, we can help
(18:12):
even now, you know, with what we advise parents and
how we talk to the kids. We need to continue
stressing importance of human interaction in our everyday life. Yes,
you know we we we as a society where we
are kind of steering away from human interaction, yes, right right, yeah, yeah.
(18:38):
And and like I have two kids, okay, and I
don't let them use scream that often. I'm I'm like,
a really, that's the one thing that I try to
enforce in lis and it's gonna be tougher and tougher
every year. But yeah, but you know, sometimes it's just
(19:01):
small choices that make a huge difference, you know, small choices.
We can simply stress, Okay, after.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
You've done this and this and this, only then.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Can you have screen time, but actually physically remove that
ability to use a screen time, right, don't have too
many to us in the house, you know, maybe don't
subscribe to too many subscription channels, right, right, But but.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
That would that's that simple rule makes your longs do
your mangas difference because.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Then they then they're forced to do something else, which
will most likely require them to do some interaction with
a person or something useful like reading a.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Book right right, or or even going outside and learning
how to play outside. A lot of kids, because of
our society and the scary things that can happen when
you're alone outside, they don't know what to do even
if you took them out there, you know, unless you're
at a playground. And I can remember playing outside in
the woods for most of the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(20:19):
it's really sad that we've come to that. And I
know it's not any particular person's fault, like we can't
you know, point a finger at that specifically, but it's
just you know, husband, now we're just talking about this
last night. We would love for the grandkids to be
able to go out and just be in the woods
and in a field and all those things that we
did when we were younger, and be able to run
(20:41):
and explore and dig and climb and ride your bike
and and it's just not quite the world we live
in anymore.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I think that the human interaction cannot be over emphasized,
and the lack of it leading to us being a
more stressed out society, yes, and not being able to
handle relationships and just everyday world. I think it cannot
be overestimated.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
So let me ask you this, does the stress cause
you know, the outside stressor is that what causes everything
to be imbalanced in the body and then causes the
pain or is it? I mean, obviously I guess that. Well,
I guess the pain could cause the stress that then
causes more pain. How do we stop that?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
How do we stop that? I think that it's very
individualized approach, right, Okay, it starts with what kind of
person you are? Are you are you an extrovert or
an introvert?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I'm an extrovert who married an introvert and who has
two introverted kids and one extroverted kid.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So how do extroverts cause stress? I deal with stress people.
They get it out of their system, right, they get
it out how to Introverts usually handle stress well, they
keep it in right.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
And so and but some people don't even know. That's
the worst part. Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So I think the first thing in anybody if you
want to be less stressed, is you want to be introspective.
You have to be honest with yourself. You have to
talk to yourself, even if it's not out loud, maybe
it's on paper, or maybe it's in some other form
of expression.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
But you have to learn about who you are, Okay, Right,
that's where it starts. You have to learn about who
you are.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And that's why some people actually do need therapy, because
some people don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Who they are and they need a therapist to help
them learn who they are. That's right, true, Right.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
That's where it starts. If you know yourself, you will
find what makes you tick. You will find what it
is that you need to go to at the time
when your at your lowest flow. And probably once you
get really smart, you will even know how to prevent
yourself from getting there in the first place.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Isn't that the truth? Yep? And that takes time and experience.
I guess right. I mean, there's no shortcuts.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
It's true, and you know, and some of us are
just naturally blessed to have had experiences in our lives
that made us learn a lot about ourselves. And how
did that happen? Through human interaction, through talking to other people,
through having life experiences.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
How does it happen today? Well, it doesn't. People don't interact.
They sit at home.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
They would see they themselves do not experience things on
their own. They experience things through other people. And we're
very digital. So sometimes we need more therapy now than
before when that.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Has been the case.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
If you're a pretty kid who has grown up in
an apartment and been watching TV all your childhood and
didn't go out and play sports or had much interaction
in other organizations or places, well, guess what.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
By the time you get out in the real world
and work for a.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Company, you may end up facing stressors and difficulties and
psychological issues that you never thought you could handle because well,
you were never based with those challenges earlier in life.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, And I think that's a parenting tip tooo is.
You know, as parents, we want to protect our kids
from discomfort and heartache and disappointment. But I think that's
counterintuitive because sometimes that's the best.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Thing for them.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You know, if we want them to grow into well
rounded people who are resilient and who can make it
without falling apart, then they need to experience those negative
things they're in the safety of their parents home, that's right.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
So learning about yourself is a number one. Learn yourself.
Be honest with yourself.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
If you don't know what you don't know, and your stress,
your stressed, and you don't see a solution in sight,
start with therapist. Therapist will be the first off shop, right,
because if you can't do it on your own, don't try.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Try you know.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I mean, you can try, but but you you shouldn't
be hard on yourself for not being able to.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
That's what I'm trying to say. Don't be hard on
yourself if you can't.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, I agree, give yourself a.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Break, Give yourself a break.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
If you don't know yourself enough, it is not your
fault you it's not your fault that you don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
It's going to be your fault if you don't admit
you need to.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Know, right, right, So let me shift gears on you.
We're almost runn out of time, but I wanted to
make sure to ask you this question. We hear a
lot about inflammation in the body and in the brain
and those types of things. What are some ways we
can lower our inflammation.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Well, we can do it through certain behaviors that we
engage it, and we can do it through also just
being around happy people. So let me say it starts
with the basics. What does our body need? Our body
(26:40):
needs food, our body needs sleep, our body needs exercise,
our body needs water.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Right, Oh yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I can't underestimate sexual health also, right, that's also our
body's requirements. Yes, So we just need to understand that
we cannot just ignore one of those points.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
It's not going to work. So when a person comes to.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Me stressed out and pain, headaches, migraine, I ask them
all those things. I go through a list of all
those topics I just mentioned and ask, how do you
think your sleepers, how.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Do you think your diet is? You know, do you exercise?
You know?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Do you do you what's your what's your sexual history.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Right, I go through the whole list, and that's what
that's where we start.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Okay, and most of the time, at least one of
those will be off when a person is coming to
see me.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And then we focused on that area. We focus on
that area.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
So exercise, right, we've just talked about it earlier, produces endorphins. Okay,
it's like natural painkillers.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
You you need to do it.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And actually sexual activity also produces endorphins.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Good food produces endorphins. Okay, good food. You don't want
to indulge over indulge.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Too much because right, But.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Listening to music.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Raises serotonin, improves pain, improves mood.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Okay, deep breathing.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
There are walking in the park outside somewhere, listening to
the birds sing, meditation, yoga. You know, there are so
many things that we can do to lower our stress levels.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So, yes, you are a wealth of information. We are
at the end of our time. Though, is there a
website or a book or something that you would like
the audience to maybe take a look at.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yes, So the Art of happiness, bedali rama and calm
app these are the two resources that I think are
reasonable too, you know, consider awesome awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Well, I really do appreciate you sharing your knowledge with
us and you know, answering my questions even though they
were all over the place, and hopefully we can talk
again soon.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Absolutely, Rebecca, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Thanks for tuning into
the show on your favorite local radio station. You can
now listen to this show or past shows through the
iheartapp or on iHeart dot com. Just search for Virginia
Focus under podcasts. I'm Rebecca Hughes with a Virginia news network,
and I'll be here next week on Virginia Focus
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
News Network. April is National Stress Awareness Month, and what
better time to talk to a neurologist who can explain
how stress literally hurts between work and family pressure, financial burdens,
constant social media exposure, political strife, and more. Some surveys
(00:27):
find as many as sixty two percent of people experience
stress weekly. Neurologist doctor Ella Ackerman, with a Virginia Spine Institute,
breaks it all down for us. Welcome to the show,
doctor Ackerman. I am so glad you could talk to
us about stress and how it affects us.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So let's start out by talking about the fact that
you are a neurologist, and if anybody's unclear what that means,
why don't you kind of give us a synopsis of
what you do.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Absolutely so, neurologists die, diagnose, and treat disorders of central
and peripheral nervous system, which sounds very vague, right. So
our central nervous system is our brain and our spinal
cord and our peripheral nervous system are all the nerves
that come out from the spinal cord and brain and
(01:19):
then go to our muscles. So neurologists often also treat
disease of a muscle as well.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, so today we're talking about the recent survey with
showing how people are experiencing a lot of stress and
that stress can literally cause pain in the body. Why
don't you tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Absolutely, so I tell my patients. Brain is our most
sensitive organ, right, That's what feels whatever is going on
inside and outside of our world, and as a result,
it transmits signals to the rest of our body to
(01:59):
dictate what our body should feel like and how it
should be. It's a master or mind, no pun intended. Yeah, So,
when we're under chronic stress, we experience negative emotions, and
those negative emotions are sensed by a structure called amygdala
(02:19):
in our brain, which talks directly to another structure called hypothalamus,
which is a chemical plant of the brain and the body.
That's what starts the chemical processes and chemical balance in
our bodies. It starts in hypothalamus and it sends chemical
(02:41):
signals to the rest of our brain and to the
body to produce either happy chemicals or unhappy chemicals. And
that's where the cascade starts, and that's where the pain starts.
If the hypothamus sends one signal, the serotonin, which is
a happy chemical, goes up. We feel happy, we are relaxed.
(03:06):
Our endorphins get released, which are netyl chemicals in the
body that actually decrease pain, and we feel wonderful. But
if we are unhappy and maybe delatoxo hypothalamus, it sends signal,
serotonin goes down. Stress hormones get released out of our
adrenal glands in the body, and there's a fight of
(03:27):
life response we get. Hence, we get very Our heart
rate goes up, our blood breath goes up, our sleep
quality drops, and we start sensing pain much quicker. Our
pain threshcol goes down, and that leads to basically a
(03:47):
cycle of pain and stress, which eventually outstretches our nervous
system and can lead to burnout.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Wow, that's a lot to take in. So the cortisol
that we hear about all the time, that's the stress
hormone you were talking about that comes from the adrenal gland.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Correct, It's a downstream signal that starts in our brain. Okay,
in our brain, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So what kind of things have you done to learn
all this? I mean, do you put people you know
in a machine and scan their brain and then stress
them out?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Like?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
How do we learn all of this?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, it starts in neuroscience, right, it starts in bench
bench research. Right? How did neuroscientists find out all these
things about the brain we know today? How did we
learn all these things about the body we know today?
It started decades centuries ago with people going and dissecting animals,
(04:45):
cadavers and just you know, cutting the brains and doing
chemical experiments to figure out what leads to what, what
goes where. But thankfully, in today's world, we'll have technology
like functional MR, for example, which can tune in into
specific molecules that you can trace and how those molecules
(05:08):
get released and when under which circumstances. It's much it's
much less invasive these days, thankfully, and much less labor
intensive in many ways. But in many ways, some people
still do you know, basic adventure research to continue figuring
this stuff out.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Okay, all right, that's that that makes sense to me.
So how do things like maybe mental health struggles bipolar
or schizophrenia, or even things like ADHD and autism. How
did those factor in when we're talking about stress and
how stress can actually affect the body.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, So there is such an idea as pull meostasis,
which is a fancy, fancy term for a bat right.
There is a balance of everything in the body. It's
a chemical balance, it's a physiological balance, it's an emotional balance, right,
(06:11):
And so when we start having any kind of illness,
whether it's a mental illness, whether it's a physical illness,
we disrupt that balance, right, and so right away that
puts stress on our bodies. Whenever our bodies are or
minds are out of balance. And so all the illnesses
(06:34):
you mentioned, they are mental either disabilities or illnesses, which
certainly do disrupt the balance, and that really can lead
to stress. And there's the cascade that I mentioned earlier
that you know, when you're under chronic stress, you're most
susceptible to having more pain. So as a result, they
(06:55):
can be call morbidities as we call them in medicine,
or conditions that basically are found alongside with other conditions.
And so yes, people with mental illness or any chronic
illness have a greater chance of developing pain.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay, so it does increase the likelihood of them feeling
that physical pain if, like you said, if things aren't balanced,
and you said that that could be physical as well, right,
So like if you have diabetes, then that also raises it.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Absolutely, absolutely anything any chronic illness that can like I explained,
any chronic illness puts the stress on the body.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh okay, so let me ask you this. Clearly, you're
the specialist of the brain, and I love that you
have that understanding that it all works together. Unfortunately, in
our modern medicine that's not always the case. Sometimes people
will specialize in something and you know, they'll just treat
(07:59):
the symptom of that thing, whereas maybe, like you said,
it may have something to do with other things going
on in the body that if you treated that it
would solve the problem instead of just being on medication forever.
Is there any kind of research being done from that
perspective of the body as a whole and as patients.
(08:21):
How do we navigate the healthcare system with that thought
in mind?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Oh, you're so right, You're so right. So in an
ideal world, right, we would have one large system of
healthcare that doesn't just say, oh, we're going to take
of the person as a whole. But they actually do
that very effectively, but in.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
The real world it's hard.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I think when Obamacare started, that was the idea, right,
let's create these accountable care organizations, because by doing that
you kind of will pay attention to multiple systems of
the person's body, and then old doctors will be accountable
for taking care of the patient as a whole, not
just their piece of what they're doing. Right, So, our
(09:14):
healthcare system tried to help us as physicians work together
as a team Kaiser Permanenta, where I used to work
before but now I work for VSI. But their model
of care was to, you know, take off the patient
as a whole, and still is, and then the acos
tried to model it, and I continue modeling it and
(09:37):
I joined Geiser. But it's not because you know, I
wanted to be there forever, but it's just because I
saw that they were doing what I naturally felt needed
to be done, taking up the patient as a whole.
But I continue to do that. Really, it's a personal
choice on many levels for physicians, because some physicians are
(09:59):
more compartmentalized thinkers and some are more global thinkers. Right,
people who go into fields of such as internal medicine,
family medicine, primary care.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
They probably as.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Primary care physicians are more of global thinkers, right, because
they're forced to they have to think of all the
different systems. But then the specialists, right, they tend to
be more compartmentalized thinkers. And so I think that patients
need to understand what each doctor does, well, what their
role is. That's where it starts education. Like, for example,
(10:37):
I give my patients an example of cars, because cars
are easier to understand than human bodies. And I say, well,
if you've had a problem with a dent in your car,
would you go to diffilube, you know where you usually
go to get oil chained? No? No, you wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Write.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So you have to understand the role of each physician
and their education and their expertise and their representation on
your healthcare team. That you build yourself as a patient.
To understand your resources, to understand how to use these
resources to your advantage. That's where it starts. And I
(11:20):
think that you know, we educate people a lot in
this country on many different levels, and there there's curricula
for all sorts of things in high school and in college,
But just as we're now developing curricula for kids to
(11:41):
learn how to use their money more more efficiently and effectively,
and how to save and how to do those things
and explain to them how banking system works and everything,
I think we need to start teaching our kids as
young adults in their curricula how to use healthcare system
(12:02):
effectively to their advantage. Not just teach them about stress,
not just teach them how to be healthy, but how
to use their resources in the healthcare system in the
United States of America.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I love that. I agree with that so much because
you think about it, and I'm guilty of this. You know,
you start a job, you get an insurance card, right,
and you sign up for the insurance. You get a card. Okay,
I've moved to a new town. I need a doctor.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
You go either to the insurance website or to the
phone book, and you find whoever's on your plan and
you just make an appointment. You don't talk to that
doctor to learn you know about them, what is their philosophy,
and if they refer you to a specialist again, you
don't interview them and be like, hey, you know, tell
me about what kind of care you provide and you
(12:51):
just kind of go with the flow and you just
do what you're told. And I guess what you're saying is,
because doctors can be so different and have such different approaches,
it's better to have that understanding before you actually go
see them, right.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Absolutely, and then you can be more effective as your
own healthcare advocate. You know, understanding your health, learning about
your health, yes, but also how to use the system.
I think that that's very important.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I love that in today's world, you know, mental health
is at forefront, especially for kids, and a lot of
times when you think mental health treatment, you think counseling,
you think psychiatry, but I think neuroscience should play a
role in helping with mental health, and it doesn't always
(13:45):
do that. Do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I do.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I think that psychiatrists and neurologists and psychologists would work
closer together, especially in under the situation, in the situations
when you are dealing with a developing brain and newer
developmental centers do exist, but I don't think people are
(14:12):
as aware of them. And then again, that's exactly what
I'm talking about. We as patients need to be educated
about what's out there, right, And there are things called
neuropsychological assessments that are done and they're required right in
schools for the purpose of determining which child which needs
(14:34):
what type of curriculum approach, and so on and so forth.
But then sometimes it's also done outside of the school
as well, and usually that's how you channel a child
that who is having difficulties either in mental illness sense,
or behavioral difficulties or learning difficulties. That's where the process start.
(14:56):
But you're absolutely right, that's necessary and it does happen.
We do have centers for like I explained, newer developmental
difficulties issues that can combine all of those problems that
need to be solved.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, and I love that you pointed that out about
a developing brain because and you can tell me because
I may have my information wrong, but it's my understanding
that the brain is not fully developed and created all
of the synapses and connections that it's going to do
until we're in our twenties.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Right, correct, late in our twenties, late in our twenties,
and so.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Like that's the reason children process information differently and may
even have a memory of something in their childhood that's
different than what the reality was.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Well, also, it's our intelligence how we interpret the facts
and our knowledge. Right.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
We may we may have interpreted.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It's just like reading a book. If you read a
book or a novel that was a childhood novel at
the age of six, let's say, and then you rereaded
at twelve, and then you reretted at twenty five, you
would probably gain something different in the time you read it.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
That's true. That's very true.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Right, fun and fun On one level it's fun and
another level it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
And yeah, so the same thing.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
You know, the experiences we have, we interpret them one
way at age of five, or when we're teenagers, or
when we're adults, and we may still interpret them later
differently when we let's say, we're faced with some new
experiences that made us gain a new perspective.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
True, that's very true. So are we seeing an increase?
I mean, obviously our ultimate topic here is stress in
the body and the effect that you know, physical pain.
Did I feel children are also starting to encounter this,
aren't they?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Absolutely? I do think that, and I don't think COVID
helped unfortunately, Right, Yeah, we really we isolated our society
from each other, you know, from the human touch, from
the human interaction in person interaction, which still critical for
(17:25):
normal development, right, especially.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
In those early ages. So the kids that were born
just before and during COVID, I think are going to
have the most trouble because those are your most critical
development years, especially that year from two years old to
three years old is my understanding, that's kind of the
make it or break it year for most people.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
The good news is kids are so resilient and they
are still developing, and so unless it was a really
traumatic event that they underwent during those years, I think
we as parents, as educators, as doctors, we can help
(18:12):
even now, you know, with what we advise parents and
how we talk to the kids. We need to continue
stressing importance of human interaction in our everyday life. Yes,
you know we we we as a society where we
are kind of steering away from human interaction, yes, right right, yeah, yeah.
(18:38):
And and like I have two kids, okay, and I
don't let them use scream that often. I'm I'm like,
a really, that's the one thing that I try to
enforce in lis and it's gonna be tougher and tougher
every year. But yeah, but you know, sometimes it's just
(19:01):
small choices that make a huge difference, you know, small choices.
We can simply stress, Okay, after.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
You've done this and this and this, only then.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Can you have screen time, but actually physically remove that
ability to use a screen time, right, don't have too
many to us in the house, you know, maybe don't
subscribe to too many subscription channels, right, right, But but.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
That would that's that simple rule makes your longs do
your mangas difference because.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Then they then they're forced to do something else, which
will most likely require them to do some interaction with
a person or something useful like reading a.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Book right right, or or even going outside and learning
how to play outside. A lot of kids, because of
our society and the scary things that can happen when
you're alone outside, they don't know what to do even
if you took them out there, you know, unless you're
at a playground. And I can remember playing outside in
the woods for most of the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(20:19):
it's really sad that we've come to that. And I
know it's not any particular person's fault, like we can't
you know, point a finger at that specifically, but it's
just you know, husband, now we're just talking about this
last night. We would love for the grandkids to be
able to go out and just be in the woods
and in a field and all those things that we
did when we were younger, and be able to run
(20:41):
and explore and dig and climb and ride your bike
and and it's just not quite the world we live
in anymore.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I think that the human interaction cannot be over emphasized,
and the lack of it leading to us being a
more stressed out society, yes, and not being able to
handle relationships and just everyday world. I think it cannot
be overestimated.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
So let me ask you this, does the stress cause
you know, the outside stressor is that what causes everything
to be imbalanced in the body and then causes the
pain or is it? I mean, obviously I guess that. Well,
I guess the pain could cause the stress that then
causes more pain. How do we stop that?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
How do we stop that? I think that it's very
individualized approach, right, Okay, it starts with what kind of
person you are? Are you are you an extrovert or
an introvert?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I'm an extrovert who married an introvert and who has
two introverted kids and one extroverted kid.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So how do extroverts cause stress? I deal with stress people.
They get it out of their system, right, they get
it out how to Introverts usually handle stress well, they
keep it in right.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
And so and but some people don't even know. That's
the worst part. Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So I think the first thing in anybody if you
want to be less stressed, is you want to be introspective.
You have to be honest with yourself. You have to
talk to yourself, even if it's not out loud, maybe
it's on paper, or maybe it's in some other form
of expression.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
But you have to learn about who you are, Okay, Right,
that's where it starts. You have to learn about who
you are.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And that's why some people actually do need therapy, because
some people don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Who they are and they need a therapist to help
them learn who they are. That's right, true, Right.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
That's where it starts. If you know yourself, you will
find what makes you tick. You will find what it
is that you need to go to at the time
when your at your lowest flow. And probably once you
get really smart, you will even know how to prevent
yourself from getting there in the first place.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Isn't that the truth? Yep? And that takes time and experience.
I guess right. I mean, there's no shortcuts.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
It's true, and you know, and some of us are
just naturally blessed to have had experiences in our lives
that made us learn a lot about ourselves. And how
did that happen? Through human interaction, through talking to other people,
through having life experiences.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
How does it happen today? Well, it doesn't. People don't interact.
They sit at home.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
They would see they themselves do not experience things on
their own. They experience things through other people. And we're
very digital. So sometimes we need more therapy now than
before when that.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Has been the case.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
If you're a pretty kid who has grown up in
an apartment and been watching TV all your childhood and
didn't go out and play sports or had much interaction
in other organizations or places, well, guess what.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
By the time you get out in the real world
and work for a.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Company, you may end up facing stressors and difficulties and
psychological issues that you never thought you could handle because well,
you were never based with those challenges earlier in life.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, And I think that's a parenting tip tooo is.
You know, as parents, we want to protect our kids
from discomfort and heartache and disappointment. But I think that's
counterintuitive because sometimes that's the best.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Thing for them.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You know, if we want them to grow into well
rounded people who are resilient and who can make it
without falling apart, then they need to experience those negative
things they're in the safety of their parents home, that's right.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
So learning about yourself is a number one. Learn yourself.
Be honest with yourself.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
If you don't know what you don't know, and your stress,
your stressed, and you don't see a solution in sight,
start with therapist. Therapist will be the first off shop, right,
because if you can't do it on your own, don't try.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Try you know.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I mean, you can try, but but you you shouldn't
be hard on yourself for not being able to.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
That's what I'm trying to say. Don't be hard on
yourself if you can't.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, I agree, give yourself a.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Break, Give yourself a break.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
If you don't know yourself enough, it is not your
fault you it's not your fault that you don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
It's going to be your fault if you don't admit
you need to.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Know, right, right, So let me shift gears on you.
We're almost runn out of time, but I wanted to
make sure to ask you this question. We hear a
lot about inflammation in the body and in the brain
and those types of things. What are some ways we
can lower our inflammation.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Well, we can do it through certain behaviors that we
engage it, and we can do it through also just
being around happy people. So let me say it starts
with the basics. What does our body need? Our body
(26:40):
needs food, our body needs sleep, our body needs exercise,
our body needs water.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Right, Oh yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I can't underestimate sexual health also, right, that's also our
body's requirements. Yes, So we just need to understand that
we cannot just ignore one of those points.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
It's not going to work. So when a person comes to.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Me stressed out and pain, headaches, migraine, I ask them
all those things. I go through a list of all
those topics I just mentioned and ask, how do you
think your sleepers, how.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Do you think your diet is? You know, do you exercise?
You know?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Do you do you what's your what's your sexual history.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Right, I go through the whole list, and that's what
that's where we start.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Okay, and most of the time, at least one of
those will be off when a person is coming to
see me.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And then we focused on that area. We focus on
that area.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
So exercise, right, we've just talked about it earlier, produces endorphins. Okay,
it's like natural painkillers.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
You you need to do it.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And actually sexual activity also produces endorphins.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Good food produces endorphins. Okay, good food. You don't want
to indulge over indulge.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Too much because right, But.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Listening to music.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Raises serotonin, improves pain, improves mood.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Okay, deep breathing.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
There are walking in the park outside somewhere, listening to
the birds sing, meditation, yoga. You know, there are so
many things that we can do to lower our stress levels.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So, yes, you are a wealth of information. We are
at the end of our time. Though, is there a
website or a book or something that you would like
the audience to maybe take a look at.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yes, So the Art of happiness, bedali rama and calm
app these are the two resources that I think are
reasonable too, you know, consider awesome awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Well, I really do appreciate you sharing your knowledge with
us and you know, answering my questions even though they
were all over the place, and hopefully we can talk
again soon.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Absolutely, Rebecca, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Thanks for tuning into
the show on your favorite local radio station. You can
now listen to this show or past shows through the
iheartapp or on iHeart dot com. Just search for Virginia
Focus under podcasts. I'm Rebecca Hughes with a Virginia news network,
and I'll be here next week on Virginia Focus
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