August 1, 2025 • 30 mins
If you pay insurance premiums‚ you’re already a victim of insurance fraud. The FBI says because of the number of people committing Insurance Fraud, the result is it costs the average U.S. family hundreds, if not thousands per year in the form of increased premiums. The Virginia State Police believe that together, through education and accountability, we can reduce the number of insurance fraud cases and lower premiums in the commonwealth. Seasoned insurance fraud investigator Senior Special Agent Tony Royall helps us learn more.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
News Network. Insurance fraud is not a victimless crime. The
FBI estimates that over a ten year period, insurance fraud
cost the average US family between four thousand and seven
thousand dollars in increased premiums. In Virginia, the Virginia State
Police have a group of highly skilled professional law enforcement
(00:27):
personnel eager to fight insurance fraud. On today's episode, we're
learning more from VSP Insurance Fraud Program Coordinator, First Sergeant
Peter Lazier. Thank you for coming on the show today.
I am anxious to hear more about your fraud program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I love the opportunity to speak with you and reach
some of the citizens of Virginia and talk about insurance
fraud and how it affects each and every single one
of those.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
So it's been a couple of years since you and
I have talked about this. Has the situation in Virginia
with fraud gotten better or worse?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm actually pleased to say that in the last year
we see the significant decrease in all of our numbers,
so not only the cases that are referred to the
Insurance Fraud Program, but also the amount of money that
criminals have collected or at least attempted to collect.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
For instance, from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Three, we saw eighty two percent decrease in the fraudulent
claims that were collected. That's huge. And we still see
over eleven million dollars in attempted fraudulent claims. That was
the twenty twenty three number, but again that was down
twenty four percent from the year before. So we have
twenty three special agents that work for the Insurance Fraud Program,
(01:35):
and I like to think that because of their work,
because of the arrest they've made and some of this
some of this publicity and getting the word out there
that it's working.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
You know, our cases are going down. That's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, that is a good thing. So yeah, that was
my next question is do you think it's partially because
of this campaign? Do you think there are other contributing factors?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I do. I think that sometimes it's becoming the apathy
towards insurance companies. And I know no one, generally speaking,
no one enjoys paying for insurance. You're paying for an
uncertainty and you may not ever be able to collect
on that. So the mentality of a lot of people
that I interact with in the public is that they
feel entitled, they feel deserved. So for instance, if they
(02:17):
have a small fire in their kitchen, they might lie
and say that it extended to the bedroom or the
living room and like, hey, here's a chance to get
a free TV. And what they don't realize is that
they're committing a felony when they do that. In Virginia,
and so we like to bring awareness to it. So
one of the ways we do that is this by
speaking publicly, by running advertising campaigns, and for me, it's
(02:37):
getting in front of civic groups and public groups and
talking about this and bringing awareness to it. And so
I think that's played a big factor in why our
numbers are down. This is one of those fields where
you want your numbers to be down and you know
your audience may not know it. By state code in Virginia,
anytime an insurance carrier suspects insurance fraud, they are required
(02:59):
to it to the insurance Fraud Program. So that is
a tremendous amount of work in my office. So we're
receiving twenty five hundred to three thousand referrals every single
year for these type of things. So that's why I'm
happy when I see that the number of referrals are down,
because that means the carriers don't suspect as much insurance fraud. So,
you know, you think, we're very fortunate to have twenty
(03:20):
three agents that are dedicated full time to these types
of investigations. But the flip side is that they're handling
hundreds of cases each and so of course we have
to prioritize. But you know, they made fifty two arrests
last year, and that doesn't sound like a huge number
when you think about you know, traffic information or traffic citations,
but in the criminal investigative world, that's huge. That means
(03:41):
that fifty two people got put in handcuffs, got taken
before juries or judges, and had to answer for these felonies.
And we don't deal in mister matters. You know, all
of these crimes involving insurance fraud are class six or
higher felonies, so you're facing some significant prison time and fines,
and I think the.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Public's just not really aware of that.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So I think it's great that I can come and
speak with you and make people's eyebrows raise and go,
oh wow, maybe I should think twice before I fake
this damage on my car or lie about my claim
to my insurance company.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Right for sure. What are some of the places that
you've been doing your public speaking. Is it like schools
and stuff like that, or what kind of areas well.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
That's a great question.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I have an opportunity to be in front of the
insurance industry a lot, and so I've spoken with executives
from most of the major insurance groups, whether it's by
zoom teams or what I prefer in person, and I
have a presentation that I give to them to make
them aware of what insurance fraud is most of them are,
but specifically what the Virginia State Police is looking for
in a good case. And so I feel like through
(04:44):
that work, I've improved the quality of cases that are
coming to us. I mean, let's be honest, we are
a state police agency, so we don't have the resources
to investigate a fifty dollars claim one hundred dollars fraudulent claim.
We just don't simply have the time, and so we're
looking for the cases that are involving a little bit
more loss. But in terms of the public, we have
a whole public outreach side of our program where we
(05:05):
have marked vehicles that have our logos all over them
and they go out to public events like community events, fairs,
even car shows and neighborhood watch groups. And so my
agents and I have been before these groups over the
past year, met with them, shared a little presentation, we
bring some swag and hand out some free items, you know,
(05:25):
as a reminder, and I will do whatever we can
to build awareness of this problem because ultimately it means
that consumers will pay less for insurance if we can.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Reduce this crime.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, definitely. And the insurance rates in Virginia are just
through the roof crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I can't speak to that, but I can say that
we paid almost sixteen billion dollars in property insurance last
year alone.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
That's just Virginia.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And the insurance pot program is such a unique facet
of the state Police because we are not funded through
the general budget or through the Governor's office.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
We are funded.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Completely through five hundredths of one percent of your property
insurance and so that works out to anywhere between six
and eight million dollars a year that we have to
work with with this program to fund these positions and
this training opportunities and advertising, and so we have a
really really unique interest in this, and so we are
kind of the defenders for these insurance companies. We don't
(06:22):
work for them, but we work alongside them and with them,
and we partner with agencies like the State Corporation Commission.
They have the Bureau of Insurance, and that agency handles
kind of the regulatory side of insurance, so they're a
little bit different than us. We come at it from
the criminal aspect. They come at it from the license
and regulatory side. But over the past couple of years,
I've worked hard to build personal relationships with the managers
(06:43):
of these other programs and work together to try and
bring awareness to this crime. But I also got involved
with what's called the National Fraud Directors Group, So there
are almost every state in the US has a program
similar to HOURS, and so those directors we get together
once a year somewhere in the country and meet for
three or four days and talk through what are your successes,
(07:07):
what are your problems, what are your legislative problems. You know,
one of the things that really is difficult for us
here in Virginia is that we are one of only
two states in the nation that does not have a
law on the book specifically for insurance fraud. So all
of our cases in Virginia must be prosecuted as obtaining
money by false pretense. That's really the only Code section
(07:28):
that applies. So we're up against quite a hurdle when
it comes to prosecuting some of these cases where you
may lie when you apply for a policy and therefore
receive a discount. Say, for instance, your vehicle's being housed
in New York City, but you live or you are
also in a jurisdiction in Virginia. You can lie to
your insurance company and say, yeah, my car's here in Virginia,
(07:48):
and you get a lower rate than if you admitted
that it was actually housed in New York City.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That's called rate evasion.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
But it's extremely difficult to prosecute because we can't prove
that you actually received money. You received a discount, but
in the eyes of the court that's not traditionally seen
as received money. So until we get stronger law in
the books, which we are working towards behind the scenes,
it can be difficult to work through some of these
cases and some of these prosecutions. So the fact that
we have hundreds and hundreds of cases that do make
(08:16):
it to a prosecutor is I think, a feather in
our cap.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So we work with the best that we can. So,
getting back to the National.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Fraud Directors Group, I meet with other fraud directors from
other states and say, how did you successfully get your
legislation passed?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
How is it worded? What can I work with with
our General Assembly to get this type of.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Law on the books. So I love outreach. I love
speaking publicly. It's an unusual habit. I know that someone
would enjoy that. But I'm so passionate about this program
that I just want to get in front of both
the public lawmakers and the industry and try and just
clean things up and streamline things and make it easier
to prosecute these types of cases.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I love that. So, if I understand correctly, though, all
these insurance companies already have their own fraud investigators too.
So do you guys only get the biggest of the
big cases and they handle some smaller things? Is that
how that works?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
That's a great question. Usually it's a concurrent investigation. So,
for instance, you take someone that intentionally sets fire to
their house and let's say they want to collect the
insurance money from that. The insurance industry will run their
own investigative team and conduct a civil investigation where they
determine whether they should or should not pay the claim.
At the same time, vi Jainia State Police will conduct
(09:28):
our investigation, and we'll have an agent that determines whether
a crime was committed. So the two, by law, can
share information back and forth without being subject to the
Freedom of Information Act, without requiring a warrant or subpoena.
We do have a good law in place to allow
the insurance industry to share their investigative efforts with state
police and vice versa. So I think the public needs
(09:50):
to know that it's it's you're facing an uphill battle
if you're attempting insurance fraud because you've got two different
entities with two different interests, both the insurance company and
the state police, that are coming at the same incident
from very different angles, and one of them could land
you in prison and the other one could land you
with no payout. And so both money and your freedom
are important to most people. So yeah, we run them
(10:11):
concurrently and it's actually it works really well. I personally
was involved in one where it saved the insurance company
eighty thousand dollars because through my investigation I revealed some
details and then to theirs they're investigating and revealed details. Together,
we put together a phenomenal case and I testified it
both the civil trial and at the criminal trial, as
(10:31):
did the investigator from insurance company. We testified at each
other's trials, and the person was not only convicted of
arson and of obtaining money by false pretenses, but also
they were not paid out for that claim.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
So it's a win win. But they do run hand
in hand.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Oh wow, that's crazy. I can't imagine setting your house
on fire. I mean, I guess I get it if
you're desperate, but wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, we see a lot of that unfortunately, along with
other crimes.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
You know that we really there's three major categories that
we follow and that is for our investigations, and the
biggest being property fraud. So that's that's their type of
thing where you're so you're you're staging a crash or
lying about damage to your vehicle or your property. We
also investigate a lot of casualty fraud where people are
faking accidents or injuries and then claiming benefits for that,
(11:19):
submitting false medical bills. And then the last, of course
is workers compensation, where people are collecting benefits from the
Workers Compensation Commission but not actually being hurt or injured.
And those are the ones that are that are I
has taped through the word fun, but it's the person
who says they have a massive back injury and can't work,
but then we have them on video jumping on a
trampoline with their kids. It's kind of revealing, ye see.
(11:43):
And so when you go to prospector something, that's very
easy to present to a jury that type of evidence
and say, you don't how can you prove that they're
not that they're that they're not lying and clearly they're lying.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So those are those actually work out pretty well?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah? Definitely. Now okay, so what about the cases where
you have let's say, legitimate damage to your house, you
hire a contractor and the contractor stiff So you do
you guys handle that too or is that someplace different entirely?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah, that is a great area we get into wet
we don't investigate general frauds, so we get requests sometimes
for identity theft, for contractor fraud. Those are separate laws
that aren't really under our necessary jurisdiction for this unit.
We have other facets of the state police that are
happy to look into that. Typically those condocations will go
to your local law enforcement, your sheriff's office or police
(12:28):
department before they come to us. But you do get
kind of a crossover there because you're right, a contractor
can sometimes do unscrupulous things that are illegal and.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Mislead the innocent. And so we actually.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Prosecuted a case like this in the Roanoke Valley that
I would love to tell you about it.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
It was a good case, and so we have we.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Received a report of a contractor that was basically cold
knocking on doors and claiming that these people had roofing damage.
They would actually do is the homeowner would allow them
access to the roof, and this unscrupulous contractor would go
up on the roof and cause damage, take a hammer,
physically damaged the roofing of the house, and then they
(13:12):
would provide pictures to the homeowners say look, you can
see that your roof is really damaged and needs to
be replaced. But because we're so nice, we're going to
replace it at no cost to you. We're going to
cover your deductible, and we're going to let the insurance
company pay for it. So after this happened a few times,
people started to catch on and in a lot of cases,
they never came back. They would file paperwork with the
(13:34):
insurance company and they would never actually perform the repairs.
So we started to develop this case in seven different
jurisdictions around the Rono Valley of Virginia, and we had
victims who filed a claim with their insurance company and
gave the payout check to the contractor who never actually
received who never actually did the work. We also have
(13:55):
insurance companies that paid this contractor and then the work
was never done. One of our agents conducted a lengthy investigation,
actually over several years, and found that this company had
deposited over one point two million dollars worth of insurance
checks into.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Their bank account.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
They got big, I got really big, even for our office.
They identifying thirty four different victims out of seven jurisdictions.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Some of them have paid.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I think the total is around one hundred and seventeen
thousand dollars out of pocket from these victims. And so
this was brought to trial before judges and juries in
the various jurisdictions, and this company was found guilty of
really two individuals in the company were found guilty of
all the charges, and the charges stacked up, you know,
there were three people involved that were charged. There was
(14:43):
a conspiracy to commit these felonies. There was over sixty charges,
and then of course spanning the jurisdictions, it's like having
a new trial in every jurisdiction that's at the state level,
the top works.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Each county has.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Their own court system, so we went to extensive lengths
to provide testimony and provide the evidence. So to get
a conviction in each county is pretty telling. So in
this case, the entire thing was brought to our attention
by another member of the contracting crew who finally had
the forethought to say, you know, this isn't right, this
(15:15):
doesn't this doesn't seem legal. So he actually filmed his coworkers,
causing the damage to the roof, a great risk to himself,
pulled out his phone and provided our agent with a
video of all of this. Happening, which is very very
good evidence for us to using court. And so part
of our Insurance Proud program at its core is our
(15:36):
desire to solicit information from the public, even contractors. And
so when he came to us with this information, we
realized that he was eligible for a reward. And so
by providing this information I mentioned, he put himself a
great risk. He was a roommate with one of the suspects.
He started to get threats to his life as they
made the connection that this person was involved with the company.
And so, in exchange for his very small part in
(15:59):
this scheme, a tremendous amount of testimony and he was
an excellent witness for the Commonwealth and eventually ended up
having to flee the state for his own safety.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So the moral of.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
The story is that we submitted this to our reward
process and he received a reward in excess of seventeen
thousand dollars in his pocket because of all of the
fraud that he prevented and revealed through this really through
his testimony and through the video. So this is a
great case where someone knew something was being done illegally
(16:29):
and they reported it and they followed through and it's
a way for the public to actually make a little
bit of money. And in the end, we locked up
several people for this incredible scheme. And I mean one
of the guys was living a lavish lifestyle. He bought
himself a maserati, he bought a boat, he had multiple houses,
he was paying expensive bar tabs like everywhere he went.
(16:51):
He was a hero, but in reality he was committing
felonies and really ripping off the homeowners because they ended
up with a damaged roof that they didn't have beforehand
and no payout.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
No new roof.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So there's a great case for us to program where
it went from beginning to end, someone reporting the information
leading to working closely with one of our special prosecutors
who's in place specifically in the city of Salem to
prosecute regionally for these types of cases, and working together
with the insurance industry and bringing these people to justice.
(17:24):
And in the end, deservedly so, this person received a
hefty reward and we were happy to pay it. So
hopefully that motivates some of your listeners to you when
they hear their friend talking about embellishing.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
An insurance fraud claim.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
You can report that to us, and you can't necessarily
be anonymous, but because we won't know who to pay.
But we can certainly keep everything confidential and we keep
it in house internally within the state police, and so
your identity does not have to be revealed. But we
accept tips at our website stamp outfraud dot com. There's
a bright green submit a tip button, or you can
(17:57):
call our hotline which is one eight seven seven six'
two fraud fraud and it can actually pay.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Out SO i love that. Story i'm HAPPY i could
share it with.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
You, YEAH i am. Too NOW i do have a
question as the homeowner who basically got you, know. Stiffed
obviously their insurance premiums went up for a, time and
did they receive any you, know compensation or what's the
Word i'm looking. For, yes, yes, right.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yeah and many of the jurisdiction's restitution was ordered and
so these people will have to pay. Back, also in
most of the, cases the insurance company is also paid
back because if you think about, it the insurance company
was a victim in some cases and the homeowners themselves
were victims in. Others so, yes the court did order
restitution in many of those, cases not all of. It
that's just the conservative nature of the. Courts but, YEAH
(18:49):
i don't have these act figures as to what they
were paid, back but many of the homeowners did receive
some of their money, back.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Okay and THEN i would hope that would also clear
whatever record there is OF i guess, that so they
can get the lower rates, again, Right, yes.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Of, course, yes that claim is not held against them
once it's proven to be insurance. Fraud it's not like
a regular claim for that. Person that's not held against
their history and shouldn't affect their rates at. All like you,
said maybe temporarily until this is sorted, out but two
three years of an, investigation and it takes some time
to do. That so that's why these people are just,
(19:23):
victims you, know innocent. People so that's just my advice
to consumers and to the public is apply common. Sense
and if someone knocks on your door that you didn't
invite and they tell you that you have roof damage
and they can get you a new roof for, free
that's a red. Flag and it's something that we are
trained to look, for and something THAT i want the
public to be aware of and look for is to ask,
(19:44):
questions call their insurance carrier before you commit to, anything
certainly before you give anyone.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Money, yeah. Definitely. Okay so here's a. QUESTION i do
know That virginia just passed where they're going to start
requiring car insurance for the first. Time how is that
going to affect your office or do you think it?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
WILL i don't know if it will affect us too.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Much you, know we have a lot of cases now
where people claim to have insurance when they.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Don't we have people that stage accidents or commit insurance
fraud through.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Injuries we had an example last year where Near, Richmond,
virginia we had a group of men that drove up
in a car and parked on the side of the.
Street they got out and spent about an hour talking looking.
Around we know all this because there happens to be
a camera mounted on the telephone pole for the, community
and so we have all.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
This we don't have. Audio we have all this on.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Video so for about an, hour they walk around the,
car they look at, it they, Talk all four of
them get back in the, car they back, up and
then they accelerate quickly ride into a telephone. Pole about
a second after the. Impact all four of them as
if they were rehearsed in on, cube slam their heads
forward like almost like you could you could almost hear
them count, down, one, two, three, go and simultaneous after the,
(20:59):
impact they all, support they get, out they're holding their
next and lo and. Behold all four of them claim
injury from a car crash with the insurance.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Company so, fortunately the insurance company.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Thought this was, suspicious the facts didn't add, up and
they reported it to us and it was, investigated and
of course it was found to be a.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Crime it was.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Completely, staged completely made, up and so you, know they
face prison time and that case is working its way
through the courts, now but so far it's gone very
well for law, enforcement not so well for the four. Individuals,
Right SO i hope if the law changing requiring, insurance
that's going to change. MUCH i think criminals will still be.
Criminals you'll still have people operating without, insurance and of
course they'll be facing an additional. Charge but it's kind
(21:41):
of like the auto theft. World you, know sometimes the
easiest crime is the one they. Commit so if you
leave your keys in your, car they're probably gonna take.
It so if they think insurance companies are easy, victims
then they're going to take advantage of. That and SO
i think it's great that we can talk in open
forms like this and, say you know what the insurance
companies are Looking and you might Think guy or Farm.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Bureau they're a huge.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Company they don't care About, peter they don't care about
this small little.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Claim but they.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Do they, Do and SO i would ask anyone to
think twice before trying to commit insurance Fund.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
YEAH i think the guys that put on that performance for,
YOU i think that video should be used in your. Presentations, yep, yeah,
yeah you.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
KNOW i think it was twenty twenty two as an
organization called The Coalition Against Insurance fraud and they conducted
an extensive study into the actual losses from insurance fraud
and that resulted in a number of almost three hundred
and nine billion dollars annually in THE us that is
lost to insurance. Fraud so this is a huge crime
(22:44):
and it's not victimless because the end result of that
is That virginians pay about one thousand dollars a year
extra in all of their insurance premiums to cover the
cost of this.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Fraud so you, think, oh it doesn't affect. Me insurance
is just.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Expensive this is part of the reason why insurance is
so expensive all a for this. Crime it's unique that.
Way AND i think as a, consumer you, Know i'm
A virginia. RESIDENT i pay insurance to all these vehicle
insurance and homeowners and all these types of. Insurance but
it occurs to me now with my perspective for being
this statewide, coordinator AS i, Realize, yeah the more fraud
(23:17):
of this THAT i can, stop then the less our
rates will. Be and you, know these insurance, companies of
course are for, profit but at the same time they need.
Customers so if they price themselves out of, business they
want a, Customers so there is an incentive there for
our premiums to be.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Lowered, yeah. Definitely so has your office been able to
shrink a little since the crime is shrinking a? Little
and is that if it, is is that good or? Bad?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
WELL i think for, us, No, no our numbers fluctuate
around twenty three to twenty eight agents depending on assignments
and so.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Forth But i'm happy that the quality of our cases have.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Improved so while our numbers are, down the equality of
the submissions that we're receiving from insurance carriers and from
the public is, up and that's. Great for, instance WHEN
i came into this program to run it a couple
of years, AGO i realized that we weren't always collecting the.
Jurisdiction so the primary element of our crime is not
only obtaining the, money but right behind it is that
it occurred In virginia and specifically what. County and SO
(24:15):
i modified the, FORM i updated the, website AND i
had all that in place so that now we're capturing
the city or county and the states so that immediately
we know where to send.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
It you, know The state place.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Is a large, agency so we are divided into seven
different divisions around the. State SO i need to know
which division of The State police to send it. To
so if it occurs In Henrico, county that's very different
than it if it occurs In Halifax, county you, know
SO i need to know where to send.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It So i'm trying to streamline these things and make
it a little bit.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Easier but that means the information we get from the
insurance companies is. Better they're conducting a little bit more
investigation ahead of. Time so that means we're much more
likely to take a look at. It So i'm happy
that we have twenty three people right now because some
states have much, fewer and talking with my counterparts in other,
states they're happy to have NINE pep and they might
be handling twice the number of referrals that we. Are
(25:03):
so we're very fortunate to have the statutory requirement for
this insurance fraud fund that covers all of this because
we have a tremendous amount of. Resources SO i feel
grateful in, it AND i hope our numbers don't, drop
at least in terms of the.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Personnel, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Definitely is there any way that growing your office would?
Benefit would you be able to do more? That and
if there were some insurance fraud laws on the books
compared to other, states say surrounding, states how would that
change the penalties or how your office does their.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
JOB i think that it would create more work for,
us but that's a good.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Thing like every law enforcement agency in twenty twenty, four
we are hurting for. People we need qualified people to
become police officers in this, country and so we overall
as an agency are missing a significant portion of. Positions they're,
available there's just no bodies to fill, them and so
our agents are tasked with a lot of Dow and
(26:00):
in one, case you might have an agent whose primary
job is investigating insurance, fraud but they are also a
blood spatter, expert they're also a crime scene, technician they're
also like a THREE d digital scanner, expert and so
they're pulled in a lot of different.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Directions so more people would.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Help tremendacy because they could commit more, time and so
you might have a six months investigation or in the
case Of, roanoke two to three years that it takes
to investigate this massive crime with millions of.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Dollars we could shrink that significantly with more.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
People, now if the laws were, changed then we would
obviously receive or investigate more. CASES i think about application.
Front you, know many people are hesitant to list their
new teenage driver on their automobile policy because their rates
will increase so, much.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
So they say they just leave it.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
All, well then their teenager drives the car and gets
in a crash and they file in insurance claim and oftentimes.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
They'll lie about who's, driving or they'll just try and
skirt the.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Fact, well that type of application fraud is another case
where we can't prosecute that because they they didn't receive,
money they received a, discount and so those types of
cases would explode for. Us if we had the statutory
ability to investigate those types of, cases or the ONE
i referred to where your car is housed in a different,
state something you do to evade that, rate we would
(27:17):
have a lot more. Prosecutions those cases are fairly simple to,
prove so in that case we might actually ask for more.
Bodies you, know the fund is big enough each year
that we have more than enough. Resources it's so. Unique you,
Know i'm entering my twenty seventh year with The State,
police and most of my Career i've been told there's no,
money we can't afford. That we are state government. Agency
(27:39):
we don't have a. Surplus you, know we get excellent
training and, equipment but above and beyond, that it's not.
There so in this program it's the opposite. Problem we
have a tremendous amount of, funding and that's because we're
paying so much for insurance in this state that that
small portion that comes to the insurance fraud funds is still,
significant and so we have surplus funds that we would
love to put towards, That but we don't necessarily have
(28:01):
the young troopers who have joined the State, police who
are moving up through the ranks to get into the
insurance fraud. Program the pipeline's not. There so now we
have a tremendous recruiting effort going on department wide trying
to bring in qualified applicants to become state. Troopers and you,
know WHEN i applied in the, nineties we had three
thousand applicants for sixty. Positions So i'm honored to be.
(28:22):
Here it's a privilege for me to have made that
cut and become A Virginia State. Trooper but now we
have a tenth of that many people, applying and our
protocols haven't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Changed we still we're known for having a tough police.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Academy you live here predominantly throughout the, week you don't
get to go home at, night and for six months
you learn everything you need and so we try to
get people that are willing to commit to, that and
it's just hard of these. Days SO i like your.
LOGIC i would love to see this program, expand And
i'm almost looking for ways to do.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
That but it can be. Tough.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah so we're at the end of our, time BUT
i want you to plug your website one more time
so people know if they want to report, fraud what
do they need to.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Do absolutely visit stampoutfraud dot com to learn more about the,
program to submit a, tip or to even request us
to come to your community.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Event there's a page there for.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
That we're also On, Facebook, twitter and, YouTube and the
whole month Of june we'll be running an advertising, campaign
so you'll be seeing us on, television on digital, platforms
and even on some of the streaming services Like, Spotify.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Pandora.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Awesome thank you so much for your time. Today you
always bring so much information and help us understand things
that much.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Better, no you, bet thank you for having.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
ME i hope you've enjoyed today's. Show thanks for tuning
into the show on your favorite local radio. Station you
can now listen to this show or past shows through
the iheartapp or on iHeart dot. Com just search For
Virginia focus under. Podcasts I'm Rebecca hughes with The Virginia News,
network And i'll be here next week On Virginia focus
Welcome to Virginia Focus. I'm Rebecca Hughes of the Virginia
News Network. Insurance fraud is not a victimless crime. The
FBI estimates that over a ten year period, insurance fraud
cost the average US family between four thousand and seven
thousand dollars in increased premiums. In Virginia, the Virginia State
Police have a group of highly skilled professional law enforcement
(00:27):
personnel eager to fight insurance fraud. On today's episode, we're
learning more from VSP Insurance Fraud Program Coordinator, First Sergeant
Peter Lazier. Thank you for coming on the show today.
I am anxious to hear more about your fraud program.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I love the opportunity to speak with you and reach
some of the citizens of Virginia and talk about insurance
fraud and how it affects each and every single one
of those.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
So it's been a couple of years since you and
I have talked about this. Has the situation in Virginia
with fraud gotten better or worse?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm actually pleased to say that in the last year
we see the significant decrease in all of our numbers,
so not only the cases that are referred to the
Insurance Fraud Program, but also the amount of money that
criminals have collected or at least attempted to collect.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
For instance, from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Three, we saw eighty two percent decrease in the fraudulent
claims that were collected. That's huge. And we still see
over eleven million dollars in attempted fraudulent claims. That was
the twenty twenty three number, but again that was down
twenty four percent from the year before. So we have
twenty three special agents that work for the Insurance Fraud Program,
(01:35):
and I like to think that because of their work,
because of the arrest they've made and some of this
some of this publicity and getting the word out there
that it's working.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
You know, our cases are going down. That's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, that is a good thing. So yeah, that was
my next question is do you think it's partially because
of this campaign? Do you think there are other contributing factors?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I do. I think that sometimes it's becoming the apathy
towards insurance companies. And I know no one, generally speaking,
no one enjoys paying for insurance. You're paying for an
uncertainty and you may not ever be able to collect
on that. So the mentality of a lot of people
that I interact with in the public is that they
feel entitled, they feel deserved. So for instance, if they
(02:17):
have a small fire in their kitchen, they might lie
and say that it extended to the bedroom or the
living room and like, hey, here's a chance to get
a free TV. And what they don't realize is that
they're committing a felony when they do that. In Virginia,
and so we like to bring awareness to it. So
one of the ways we do that is this by
speaking publicly, by running advertising campaigns, and for me, it's
(02:37):
getting in front of civic groups and public groups and
talking about this and bringing awareness to it. And so
I think that's played a big factor in why our
numbers are down. This is one of those fields where
you want your numbers to be down and you know
your audience may not know it. By state code in Virginia,
anytime an insurance carrier suspects insurance fraud, they are required
(02:59):
to it to the insurance Fraud Program. So that is
a tremendous amount of work in my office. So we're
receiving twenty five hundred to three thousand referrals every single
year for these type of things. So that's why I'm
happy when I see that the number of referrals are down,
because that means the carriers don't suspect as much insurance fraud. So,
you know, you think, we're very fortunate to have twenty
(03:20):
three agents that are dedicated full time to these types
of investigations. But the flip side is that they're handling
hundreds of cases each and so of course we have
to prioritize. But you know, they made fifty two arrests
last year, and that doesn't sound like a huge number
when you think about you know, traffic information or traffic citations,
but in the criminal investigative world, that's huge. That means
(03:41):
that fifty two people got put in handcuffs, got taken
before juries or judges, and had to answer for these felonies.
And we don't deal in mister matters. You know, all
of these crimes involving insurance fraud are class six or
higher felonies, so you're facing some significant prison time and fines,
and I think the.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Public's just not really aware of that.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So I think it's great that I can come and
speak with you and make people's eyebrows raise and go,
oh wow, maybe I should think twice before I fake
this damage on my car or lie about my claim
to my insurance company.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Right for sure. What are some of the places that
you've been doing your public speaking. Is it like schools
and stuff like that, or what kind of areas well.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
That's a great question.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I have an opportunity to be in front of the
insurance industry a lot, and so I've spoken with executives
from most of the major insurance groups, whether it's by
zoom teams or what I prefer in person, and I
have a presentation that I give to them to make
them aware of what insurance fraud is most of them are,
but specifically what the Virginia State Police is looking for
in a good case. And so I feel like through
(04:44):
that work, I've improved the quality of cases that are
coming to us. I mean, let's be honest, we are
a state police agency, so we don't have the resources
to investigate a fifty dollars claim one hundred dollars fraudulent claim.
We just don't simply have the time, and so we're
looking for the cases that are involving a little bit
more loss. But in terms of the public, we have
a whole public outreach side of our program where we
(05:05):
have marked vehicles that have our logos all over them
and they go out to public events like community events, fairs,
even car shows and neighborhood watch groups. And so my
agents and I have been before these groups over the
past year, met with them, shared a little presentation, we
bring some swag and hand out some free items, you know,
(05:25):
as a reminder, and I will do whatever we can
to build awareness of this problem because ultimately it means
that consumers will pay less for insurance if we can.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Reduce this crime.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, definitely. And the insurance rates in Virginia are just
through the roof crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I can't speak to that, but I can say that
we paid almost sixteen billion dollars in property insurance last
year alone.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
That's just Virginia.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
And the insurance pot program is such a unique facet
of the state Police because we are not funded through
the general budget or through the Governor's office.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
We are funded.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Completely through five hundredths of one percent of your property
insurance and so that works out to anywhere between six
and eight million dollars a year that we have to
work with with this program to fund these positions and
this training opportunities and advertising, and so we have a
really really unique interest in this, and so we are
kind of the defenders for these insurance companies. We don't
(06:22):
work for them, but we work alongside them and with them,
and we partner with agencies like the State Corporation Commission.
They have the Bureau of Insurance, and that agency handles
kind of the regulatory side of insurance, so they're a
little bit different than us. We come at it from
the criminal aspect. They come at it from the license
and regulatory side. But over the past couple of years,
I've worked hard to build personal relationships with the managers
(06:43):
of these other programs and work together to try and
bring awareness to this crime. But I also got involved
with what's called the National Fraud Directors Group, So there
are almost every state in the US has a program
similar to HOURS, and so those directors we get together
once a year somewhere in the country and meet for
three or four days and talk through what are your successes,
(07:07):
what are your problems, what are your legislative problems. You know,
one of the things that really is difficult for us
here in Virginia is that we are one of only
two states in the nation that does not have a
law on the book specifically for insurance fraud. So all
of our cases in Virginia must be prosecuted as obtaining
money by false pretense. That's really the only Code section
(07:28):
that applies. So we're up against quite a hurdle when
it comes to prosecuting some of these cases where you
may lie when you apply for a policy and therefore
receive a discount. Say, for instance, your vehicle's being housed
in New York City, but you live or you are
also in a jurisdiction in Virginia. You can lie to
your insurance company and say, yeah, my car's here in Virginia,
(07:48):
and you get a lower rate than if you admitted
that it was actually housed in New York City.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That's called rate evasion.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
But it's extremely difficult to prosecute because we can't prove
that you actually received money. You received a discount, but
in the eyes of the court that's not traditionally seen
as received money. So until we get stronger law in
the books, which we are working towards behind the scenes,
it can be difficult to work through some of these
cases and some of these prosecutions. So the fact that
we have hundreds and hundreds of cases that do make
(08:16):
it to a prosecutor is I think, a feather in
our cap.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So we work with the best that we can. So,
getting back to the National.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Fraud Directors Group, I meet with other fraud directors from
other states and say, how did you successfully get your
legislation passed?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
How is it worded? What can I work with with
our General Assembly to get this type of.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Law on the books. So I love outreach. I love
speaking publicly. It's an unusual habit. I know that someone
would enjoy that. But I'm so passionate about this program
that I just want to get in front of both
the public lawmakers and the industry and try and just
clean things up and streamline things and make it easier
to prosecute these types of cases.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I love that. So, if I understand correctly, though, all
these insurance companies already have their own fraud investigators too.
So do you guys only get the biggest of the
big cases and they handle some smaller things? Is that
how that works?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
That's a great question. Usually it's a concurrent investigation. So,
for instance, you take someone that intentionally sets fire to
their house and let's say they want to collect the
insurance money from that. The insurance industry will run their
own investigative team and conduct a civil investigation where they
determine whether they should or should not pay the claim.
At the same time, vi Jainia State Police will conduct
(09:28):
our investigation, and we'll have an agent that determines whether
a crime was committed. So the two, by law, can
share information back and forth without being subject to the
Freedom of Information Act, without requiring a warrant or subpoena.
We do have a good law in place to allow
the insurance industry to share their investigative efforts with state
police and vice versa. So I think the public needs
(09:50):
to know that it's it's you're facing an uphill battle
if you're attempting insurance fraud because you've got two different
entities with two different interests, both the insurance company and
the state police, that are coming at the same incident
from very different angles, and one of them could land
you in prison and the other one could land you
with no payout. And so both money and your freedom
are important to most people. So yeah, we run them
(10:11):
concurrently and it's actually it works really well. I personally
was involved in one where it saved the insurance company
eighty thousand dollars because through my investigation I revealed some
details and then to theirs they're investigating and revealed details. Together,
we put together a phenomenal case and I testified it
both the civil trial and at the criminal trial, as
(10:31):
did the investigator from insurance company. We testified at each
other's trials, and the person was not only convicted of
arson and of obtaining money by false pretenses, but also
they were not paid out for that claim.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
So it's a win win. But they do run hand
in hand.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Oh wow, that's crazy. I can't imagine setting your house
on fire. I mean, I guess I get it if
you're desperate, but wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, we see a lot of that unfortunately, along with
other crimes.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
You know that we really there's three major categories that
we follow and that is for our investigations, and the
biggest being property fraud. So that's that's their type of
thing where you're so you're you're staging a crash or
lying about damage to your vehicle or your property. We
also investigate a lot of casualty fraud where people are
faking accidents or injuries and then claiming benefits for that,
(11:19):
submitting false medical bills. And then the last, of course
is workers compensation, where people are collecting benefits from the
Workers Compensation Commission but not actually being hurt or injured.
And those are the ones that are that are I
has taped through the word fun, but it's the person
who says they have a massive back injury and can't work,
but then we have them on video jumping on a
trampoline with their kids. It's kind of revealing, ye see.
(11:43):
And so when you go to prospector something, that's very
easy to present to a jury that type of evidence
and say, you don't how can you prove that they're
not that they're that they're not lying and clearly they're lying.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So those are those actually work out pretty well?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah? Definitely. Now okay, so what about the cases where
you have let's say, legitimate damage to your house, you
hire a contractor and the contractor stiff So you do
you guys handle that too or is that someplace different entirely?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah, that is a great area we get into wet
we don't investigate general frauds, so we get requests sometimes
for identity theft, for contractor fraud. Those are separate laws
that aren't really under our necessary jurisdiction for this unit.
We have other facets of the state police that are
happy to look into that. Typically those condocations will go
to your local law enforcement, your sheriff's office or police
(12:28):
department before they come to us. But you do get
kind of a crossover there because you're right, a contractor
can sometimes do unscrupulous things that are illegal and.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Mislead the innocent. And so we actually.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Prosecuted a case like this in the Roanoke Valley that
I would love to tell you about it.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
It was a good case, and so we have we.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Received a report of a contractor that was basically cold
knocking on doors and claiming that these people had roofing damage.
They would actually do is the homeowner would allow them
access to the roof, and this unscrupulous contractor would go
up on the roof and cause damage, take a hammer,
physically damaged the roofing of the house, and then they
(13:12):
would provide pictures to the homeowners say look, you can
see that your roof is really damaged and needs to
be replaced. But because we're so nice, we're going to
replace it at no cost to you. We're going to
cover your deductible, and we're going to let the insurance
company pay for it. So after this happened a few times,
people started to catch on and in a lot of cases,
they never came back. They would file paperwork with the
(13:34):
insurance company and they would never actually perform the repairs.
So we started to develop this case in seven different
jurisdictions around the Rono Valley of Virginia, and we had
victims who filed a claim with their insurance company and
gave the payout check to the contractor who never actually
received who never actually did the work. We also have
(13:55):
insurance companies that paid this contractor and then the work
was never done. One of our agents conducted a lengthy investigation,
actually over several years, and found that this company had
deposited over one point two million dollars worth of insurance
checks into.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Their bank account.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
They got big, I got really big, even for our office.
They identifying thirty four different victims out of seven jurisdictions.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Some of them have paid.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I think the total is around one hundred and seventeen
thousand dollars out of pocket from these victims. And so
this was brought to trial before judges and juries in
the various jurisdictions, and this company was found guilty of
really two individuals in the company were found guilty of
all the charges, and the charges stacked up, you know,
there were three people involved that were charged. There was
(14:43):
a conspiracy to commit these felonies. There was over sixty charges,
and then of course spanning the jurisdictions, it's like having
a new trial in every jurisdiction that's at the state level,
the top works.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Each county has.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Their own court system, so we went to extensive lengths
to provide testimony and provide the evidence. So to get
a conviction in each county is pretty telling. So in
this case, the entire thing was brought to our attention
by another member of the contracting crew who finally had
the forethought to say, you know, this isn't right, this
(15:15):
doesn't this doesn't seem legal. So he actually filmed his coworkers,
causing the damage to the roof, a great risk to himself,
pulled out his phone and provided our agent with a
video of all of this. Happening, which is very very
good evidence for us to using court. And so part
of our Insurance Proud program at its core is our
(15:36):
desire to solicit information from the public, even contractors. And
so when he came to us with this information, we
realized that he was eligible for a reward. And so
by providing this information I mentioned, he put himself a
great risk. He was a roommate with one of the suspects.
He started to get threats to his life as they
made the connection that this person was involved with the company.
And so, in exchange for his very small part in
(15:59):
this scheme, a tremendous amount of testimony and he was
an excellent witness for the Commonwealth and eventually ended up
having to flee the state for his own safety.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So the moral of.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
The story is that we submitted this to our reward
process and he received a reward in excess of seventeen
thousand dollars in his pocket because of all of the
fraud that he prevented and revealed through this really through
his testimony and through the video. So this is a
great case where someone knew something was being done illegally
(16:29):
and they reported it and they followed through and it's
a way for the public to actually make a little
bit of money. And in the end, we locked up
several people for this incredible scheme. And I mean one
of the guys was living a lavish lifestyle. He bought
himself a maserati, he bought a boat, he had multiple houses,
he was paying expensive bar tabs like everywhere he went.
(16:51):
He was a hero, but in reality he was committing
felonies and really ripping off the homeowners because they ended
up with a damaged roof that they didn't have beforehand
and no payout.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
No new roof.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So there's a great case for us to program where
it went from beginning to end, someone reporting the information
leading to working closely with one of our special prosecutors
who's in place specifically in the city of Salem to
prosecute regionally for these types of cases, and working together
with the insurance industry and bringing these people to justice.
(17:24):
And in the end, deservedly so, this person received a
hefty reward and we were happy to pay it. So
hopefully that motivates some of your listeners to you when
they hear their friend talking about embellishing.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
An insurance fraud claim.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
You can report that to us, and you can't necessarily
be anonymous, but because we won't know who to pay.
But we can certainly keep everything confidential and we keep
it in house internally within the state police, and so
your identity does not have to be revealed. But we
accept tips at our website stamp outfraud dot com. There's
a bright green submit a tip button, or you can
(17:57):
call our hotline which is one eight seven seven six'
two fraud fraud and it can actually pay.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Out SO i love that. Story i'm HAPPY i could
share it with.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
You, YEAH i am. Too NOW i do have a
question as the homeowner who basically got you, know. Stiffed
obviously their insurance premiums went up for a, time and
did they receive any you, know compensation or what's the
Word i'm looking. For, yes, yes, right.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yeah and many of the jurisdiction's restitution was ordered and
so these people will have to pay. Back, also in
most of the, cases the insurance company is also paid
back because if you think about, it the insurance company
was a victim in some cases and the homeowners themselves
were victims in. Others so, yes the court did order
restitution in many of those, cases not all of. It
that's just the conservative nature of the. Courts but, YEAH
(18:49):
i don't have these act figures as to what they
were paid, back but many of the homeowners did receive
some of their money, back.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Okay and THEN i would hope that would also clear
whatever record there is OF i guess, that so they
can get the lower rates, again, Right, yes.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Of, course, yes that claim is not held against them
once it's proven to be insurance. Fraud it's not like
a regular claim for that. Person that's not held against
their history and shouldn't affect their rates at. All like you,
said maybe temporarily until this is sorted, out but two
three years of an, investigation and it takes some time
to do. That so that's why these people are just,
(19:23):
victims you, know innocent. People so that's just my advice
to consumers and to the public is apply common. Sense
and if someone knocks on your door that you didn't
invite and they tell you that you have roof damage
and they can get you a new roof for, free
that's a red. Flag and it's something that we are
trained to look, for and something THAT i want the
public to be aware of and look for is to ask,
(19:44):
questions call their insurance carrier before you commit to, anything
certainly before you give anyone.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Money, yeah. Definitely. Okay so here's a. QUESTION i do
know That virginia just passed where they're going to start
requiring car insurance for the first. Time how is that
going to affect your office or do you think it?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
WILL i don't know if it will affect us too.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Much you, know we have a lot of cases now
where people claim to have insurance when they.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Don't we have people that stage accidents or commit insurance
fraud through.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Injuries we had an example last year where Near, Richmond,
virginia we had a group of men that drove up
in a car and parked on the side of the.
Street they got out and spent about an hour talking looking.
Around we know all this because there happens to be
a camera mounted on the telephone pole for the, community
and so we have all.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
This we don't have. Audio we have all this on.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Video so for about an, hour they walk around the,
car they look at, it they, Talk all four of
them get back in the, car they back, up and
then they accelerate quickly ride into a telephone. Pole about
a second after the. Impact all four of them as
if they were rehearsed in on, cube slam their heads
forward like almost like you could you could almost hear
them count, down, one, two, three, go and simultaneous after the,
(20:59):
impact they all, support they get, out they're holding their
next and lo and. Behold all four of them claim
injury from a car crash with the insurance.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Company so, fortunately the insurance company.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Thought this was, suspicious the facts didn't add, up and
they reported it to us and it was, investigated and
of course it was found to be a.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Crime it was.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Completely, staged completely made, up and so you, know they
face prison time and that case is working its way
through the courts, now but so far it's gone very
well for law, enforcement not so well for the four. Individuals,
Right SO i hope if the law changing requiring, insurance
that's going to change. MUCH i think criminals will still be.
Criminals you'll still have people operating without, insurance and of
course they'll be facing an additional. Charge but it's kind
(21:41):
of like the auto theft. World you, know sometimes the
easiest crime is the one they. Commit so if you
leave your keys in your, car they're probably gonna take.
It so if they think insurance companies are easy, victims
then they're going to take advantage of. That and SO
i think it's great that we can talk in open
forms like this and, say you know what the insurance
companies are Looking and you might Think guy or Farm.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Bureau they're a huge.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Company they don't care About, peter they don't care about
this small little.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Claim but they.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Do they, Do and SO i would ask anyone to
think twice before trying to commit insurance Fund.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
YEAH i think the guys that put on that performance for,
YOU i think that video should be used in your. Presentations, yep, yeah,
yeah you.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
KNOW i think it was twenty twenty two as an
organization called The Coalition Against Insurance fraud and they conducted
an extensive study into the actual losses from insurance fraud
and that resulted in a number of almost three hundred
and nine billion dollars annually in THE us that is
lost to insurance. Fraud so this is a huge crime
(22:44):
and it's not victimless because the end result of that
is That virginians pay about one thousand dollars a year
extra in all of their insurance premiums to cover the
cost of this.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Fraud so you, think, oh it doesn't affect. Me insurance
is just.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Expensive this is part of the reason why insurance is
so expensive all a for this. Crime it's unique that.
Way AND i think as a, consumer you, Know i'm
A virginia. RESIDENT i pay insurance to all these vehicle
insurance and homeowners and all these types of. Insurance but
it occurs to me now with my perspective for being
this statewide, coordinator AS i, Realize, yeah the more fraud
(23:17):
of this THAT i can, stop then the less our
rates will. Be and you, know these insurance, companies of
course are for, profit but at the same time they need.
Customers so if they price themselves out of, business they
want a, Customers so there is an incentive there for
our premiums to be.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Lowered, yeah. Definitely so has your office been able to
shrink a little since the crime is shrinking a? Little
and is that if it, is is that good or? Bad?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
WELL i think for, us, No, no our numbers fluctuate
around twenty three to twenty eight agents depending on assignments
and so.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Forth But i'm happy that the quality of our cases have.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Improved so while our numbers are, down the equality of
the submissions that we're receiving from insurance carriers and from
the public is, up and that's. Great for, instance WHEN
i came into this program to run it a couple
of years, AGO i realized that we weren't always collecting the.
Jurisdiction so the primary element of our crime is not
only obtaining the, money but right behind it is that
it occurred In virginia and specifically what. County and SO
(24:15):
i modified the, FORM i updated the, website AND i
had all that in place so that now we're capturing
the city or county and the states so that immediately
we know where to send.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
It you, know The state place.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Is a large, agency so we are divided into seven
different divisions around the. State SO i need to know
which division of The State police to send it. To
so if it occurs In Henrico, county that's very different
than it if it occurs In Halifax, county you, know
SO i need to know where to send.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It So i'm trying to streamline these things and make
it a little bit.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Easier but that means the information we get from the
insurance companies is. Better they're conducting a little bit more
investigation ahead of. Time so that means we're much more
likely to take a look at. It So i'm happy
that we have twenty three people right now because some
states have much, fewer and talking with my counterparts in other,
states they're happy to have NINE pep and they might
be handling twice the number of referrals that we. Are
(25:03):
so we're very fortunate to have the statutory requirement for
this insurance fraud fund that covers all of this because
we have a tremendous amount of. Resources SO i feel
grateful in, it AND i hope our numbers don't, drop
at least in terms of the.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Personnel, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Definitely is there any way that growing your office would?
Benefit would you be able to do more? That and
if there were some insurance fraud laws on the books
compared to other, states say surrounding, states how would that
change the penalties or how your office does their.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
JOB i think that it would create more work for,
us but that's a good.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Thing like every law enforcement agency in twenty twenty, four
we are hurting for. People we need qualified people to
become police officers in this, country and so we overall
as an agency are missing a significant portion of. Positions they're,
available there's just no bodies to fill, them and so
our agents are tasked with a lot of Dow and
(26:00):
in one, case you might have an agent whose primary
job is investigating insurance, fraud but they are also a
blood spatter, expert they're also a crime scene, technician they're
also like a THREE d digital scanner, expert and so
they're pulled in a lot of different.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Directions so more people would.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Help tremendacy because they could commit more, time and so
you might have a six months investigation or in the
case Of, roanoke two to three years that it takes
to investigate this massive crime with millions of.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Dollars we could shrink that significantly with more.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
People, now if the laws were, changed then we would
obviously receive or investigate more. CASES i think about application.
Front you, know many people are hesitant to list their
new teenage driver on their automobile policy because their rates
will increase so, much.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
So they say they just leave it.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
All, well then their teenager drives the car and gets
in a crash and they file in insurance claim and oftentimes.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
They'll lie about who's, driving or they'll just try and
skirt the.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Fact, well that type of application fraud is another case
where we can't prosecute that because they they didn't receive,
money they received a, discount and so those types of
cases would explode for. Us if we had the statutory
ability to investigate those types of, cases or the ONE
i referred to where your car is housed in a different,
state something you do to evade that, rate we would
(27:17):
have a lot more. Prosecutions those cases are fairly simple to,
prove so in that case we might actually ask for more.
Bodies you, know the fund is big enough each year
that we have more than enough. Resources it's so. Unique you,
Know i'm entering my twenty seventh year with The State,
police and most of my Career i've been told there's no,
money we can't afford. That we are state government. Agency
(27:39):
we don't have a. Surplus you, know we get excellent
training and, equipment but above and beyond, that it's not.
There so in this program it's the opposite. Problem we
have a tremendous amount of, funding and that's because we're
paying so much for insurance in this state that that
small portion that comes to the insurance fraud funds is still,
significant and so we have surplus funds that we would
love to put towards, That but we don't necessarily have
(28:01):
the young troopers who have joined the State, police who
are moving up through the ranks to get into the
insurance fraud. Program the pipeline's not. There so now we
have a tremendous recruiting effort going on department wide trying
to bring in qualified applicants to become state. Troopers and you,
know WHEN i applied in the, nineties we had three
thousand applicants for sixty. Positions So i'm honored to be.
(28:22):
Here it's a privilege for me to have made that
cut and become A Virginia State. Trooper but now we
have a tenth of that many people, applying and our
protocols haven't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Changed we still we're known for having a tough police.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Academy you live here predominantly throughout the, week you don't
get to go home at, night and for six months
you learn everything you need and so we try to
get people that are willing to commit to, that and
it's just hard of these. Days SO i like your.
LOGIC i would love to see this program, expand And
i'm almost looking for ways to do.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
That but it can be. Tough.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah so we're at the end of our, time BUT
i want you to plug your website one more time
so people know if they want to report, fraud what
do they need to.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Do absolutely visit stampoutfraud dot com to learn more about the,
program to submit a, tip or to even request us
to come to your community.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Event there's a page there for.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
That we're also On, Facebook, twitter and, YouTube and the
whole month Of june we'll be running an advertising, campaign
so you'll be seeing us on, television on digital, platforms
and even on some of the streaming services Like, Spotify.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Pandora.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Awesome thank you so much for your time. Today you
always bring so much information and help us understand things
that much.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Better, no you, bet thank you for having.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
ME i hope you've enjoyed today's. Show thanks for tuning
into the show on your favorite local radio. Station you
can now listen to this show or past shows through
the iheartapp or on iHeart dot. Com just search For
Virginia focus under. Podcasts I'm Rebecca hughes with The Virginia News,
network And i'll be here next week On Virginia focus
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.