December 7, 2024 • 24 mins
Patricia Walsh Chadwick, author of BREAKING GLASS: Tales from the Witch of Wall Street, shares her true story of growing up in a constrictive, cult-like Catholic community and ultimately building a successful 30-year career in the investment business, culminating as a Global Partner at Invesco.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is What's at Risk with Mike Christian on WBZ,
Boston's news radio. Hi, Mike Christian. Here of What's at Risk.
First up on tonight's show, we have a special encore
edition of What's at Risk with Patricia Walsh Chadwick, author
of Breaking Glass Tales from the Witch of Wall Street.
(00:23):
She shares her true story of growing up in a constrictive,
cult like Catholic community and ultimately building a successful thirty
year career in the investment business, culminating as a global
partner at Invesco. And in our second segment, we speak
with Jack Carey, executive director of Live Oak Wilderness Camp
(00:45):
in Mississippi. Jack shares an epic story about running solo
across America and talks with passion about the Live Oak
Wilderness Camp and its leadership initiatives and experiences for youth
from New Orleans. Patricia Walls Chadwick was born in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
(01:08):
in nineteen forty eight. She received her BA in Economics
from Boston University and had a successful thirty year career
in the investment business, culminating as a global partner at Invesco. Today,
she sits on a number of corporate boards, and blogs
on economics, social and political issues. Her pro bono activities
(01:28):
include mentoring young women in high school and college and
providing strategic planning advice to not for profit organizations. In
twenty sixteen, she co founded Anchor Health Initiative, a healthcare
company devoted to the needs of the LGBTQ community in Connecticut,
and serves as the firm's pro bono CEO. She is
(01:49):
the author of a previous memoir, Little Sisters. A mother
to twins, a daughter and son. She lives in Connecticut
with her husband John. She is also the author of
Breaking Glass Tales from the Witch of Wall Street.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Good Way.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
By your Oh okay, money.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Is cad as.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
We're talking with Patricia Walsh Chadwick, author of Breaking Glass
Tales from the Witch of Wall Street. Patricia, you have
a fascinating story that began well before your successful Wall
Street career, and prior to this most recent book. You
began telling the story, I think in a twenty nineteen
memoir called Little Sister. You would you mind starting with
(02:52):
your background from that point?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
My member our Little Sister, which I did come out
five years ago. What's the story of my growing up
in what had started off as a very Catholic religious community,
and it was birthed in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and it was
founded in the nineteen forties and it had as its
leader a woman named Catherine Clark who founded it, and
(03:17):
she brought in a renowned Jesuit priest, Leonard Feeney, to
be the chaplain.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
During the war and after the.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
War, many young men and women were on the GI
bill going to Harvard, Radcliffe and other schools, and father
Feeney was really a beacon of Catholicism for many of
this people converted, many sent some off to the seminary,
married many of them, and he was a very, very
(03:47):
loved personality. And after the war, however, the Archbishop of Boston,
Richard Cushing, who became Cardinal Cushing eventually, was really trying
to open the door for humanism, and father Feenie at
the center would have none of it. And he was
very adamant in no leeway on interpretation of outside the
(04:10):
Catholic Church. There was no salvation, which was a dogma
of the Catholic Church. And so little by little many
of his followers, young students left him and a small
contingent of people remained, and in December of nineteen forty eight,
Cushing told Father Feenie that he could no longer practice
(04:31):
in the Diocese of Boston. Now, my father and mother
met at the Center, as it was called, this Catholic
social club, an engagement place. My mother was nineteen, had
just become a Catholic, my father was thirty, and I had
just fought the entire war as a naval officer. They
got married six months later, and I came a year
after that, so I was an infant. And in early
(04:56):
nineteen forty nine, my father and two other people associated
with the Center were fired from Boston College, where my
father was getting his master's degree and was teaching, And
it was because they allied themselves with Father feening So
suddenly this small group of fifty men and women and
a few children and a number of married couples was
(05:19):
very much kind of outside the church. And when my
father lost his job, as with the other two professors,
they basically sold their houses and gave the money to
the Center, and from that was formed this legitimate commune
of sorts. Everybody shared their wealth, their earnings, whatever they
were doing, and that was the environment I grew up
(05:42):
in having what I thought was the most wonderful life,
fifty uncles and aunts, it would take me to the
Charles River and all that kind of thing. And continued
to live in a house with my parents that was
a three family house, and other families were living on
the other two floors, and pretty soon there were nine children,
so that made a group of about one hundred, and
(06:03):
all of a sudden, one day things changed dramatically. I
was six years old, I had four younger siblings, and
all the children that were three and over were separated
from their parents and told they were going to live
in dormitories, the boys on one floor, the girls on another,
and the parents would simply be with their remaining children.
(06:26):
And as each child got to be three years old,
they were separated, and then the parents were forced to
take powers of celibacy. And you might say forced, how
can you be forced? But it was coercion. Father feene
approached the couples. My parents said absolutely not not, And
shortly thereafter Father Feenie came back to them and said,
(06:46):
you're the only couple that's standing out and not doing this.
And they thought, gosh, we want just the best Catholic
education for our children. I guess we'd better go along
with it, and many years later I would find out
that other children were told by their parents that father
Femi had done the very same thing to them, So
it was a horrific manipulation. From thereforward, we became monastic
(07:10):
and when I was nine years old nineteen fifty eight,
we left Cambridge. We moved to still River and then
everybody was separated. The men lived in a different building
from the women. The women were in a separate part
of the building. The children were separated. We were taught
there and we met for meals, and silence was the rule.
(07:31):
We had no television, nobody know, no newspapers, no communication
with the outside world.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And we were told, the thirty nine.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Of us, that we were the most chosen children in
the world because from the day of our birth we
were dedicated to God and we were expected to become
nuns and brothers.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, I wasn't really interested in becoming a nun.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
My dream was to have a prince, a handsome prince, come,
sweep me off my feet, take me to his castle,
and we would have many children, even though I hadn't
a clue how all that would happen, and by the
time I was thirteen or fourteen, I was actually developing crushes.
And it was at that point that sister Catherine saw
(08:12):
that I was not manageable. I mean, they were completely chased.
I knew very very little about anything. But when I
was seventeen, she called me into her office and basically
told me sweetly that I didn't have a vocation. And
all of a sudden, I realized that she was kicking
me out. And two hours after I graduated. Because we
(08:34):
all were schooled and within the community, I was gone.
My siblings were not told, my parents were informed, but
they could have no say in the matter, and from
then on I was on my own. She allowed as
how I might go to secretarial school so that I
could get a job, and it was with that set
of skills that I got my very first job on
(08:54):
Wall Street as a receptionist.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Wow, that's an incredible story. So this father, did he
evolve into being this despotic cult leader or was he
sort of that way in the beginning. You probably wouldn't
know because you were a child, but maybe you heard
about how he evolved to have this control over that
group of people.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
He was beloved around the world. He spent years in
churches in Europe Catholics, Catholic nuns, and some of my
own friends today who were young and Catholic growing up
outside of the center, they would say that the nuns
would say a prayer for Father Feenie in their classrooms.
In fact, there was a time that was a very
(09:34):
antisemitic place when I was growing up. But there was
a time when Father Feenie actually embraced the Jews. But
he changed after World War Two and he basically blamed
colleges in the United States for the liberal ideals that
were being taught to young people, which was the reason
that Sister Catherine would not allow me. And she was
(09:55):
more than the power behind the throne, but she would
not allow me to go to college.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
She said I would lose my soul. But in order
to get there are tiny school accredited. She had me
apply to Vassar and debate spates have been where my
father went. I got into both schools, and then she
made me write a letter to each school saying that
I would not be coming because my job was done.
I had been accepted and now their school could be accredited,
(10:21):
which it was so.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Then you're out on You're seventeen years old, you're out
on the street. You're having to defend for yourself. And
you got a job as an administrative assistant with a
Wall Street firm or just in a general It was.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
A Broadforge firm called Bowman, And I think I just
sometimes wonder, you know, what if it had been a
car rental agency, or what if it had been a
travel in the sty.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I'd have no idea what might have might have evolved
from that.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
But all I wanted to do at the age of
nineteen when I got out of secretary school was be
the best receptionist in the world.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
And I think from that I learned a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I always had my hand up to say yes if
somebody needed something. I was learning all the time, but
I was still quite naive when it came to matters
of the world. But I just had eyes open and
ears open and mouth shut until I became much more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So I believe your book Breaking Glass tells more of
that story. As you evolved in your career on Wall Street,
maybe talk about from being a secretary and being the
best secretary it could be, how did you end up
becoming so prominent in the Wall Street world in a
time which was really difficult for women. Everybody would acknowledge
that no more, very.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Many women on Lall Street, particular, when I first started out,
I will credit a lot, and I dedicate this book
to the mentors in my life, and they were all men,
except for.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
One woman who was the principal of our.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
School, and I just felt I had to give her
a special place of honor. But once I was kicked
out of the center, the only mentors I had were men,
and I attribute so much to them, and I've learned
so much from them. But I also discovered that it
was wise to be adaptable. I wanted to learn everything,
(12:12):
but sometimes you think this is the way I'm going
to do things. And I really had to accept the
fact that sometimes I had to do something not the
way I wanted to do it. And then when things
worked out, you build up confidence, and pretty soon that
leads to resilience. And so it was a very much
a baby step at a time. Then when I moved
(12:33):
to Philadelphia, I felt I had to get out of
Boston because I just thought everybody would say I knew
her when and I didn't want people to think of
me as the receptionist who was now a stock analyst.
And when I moved to Philadelphia with my best friend
a girlfriend, that was a big opportunity for me to
spread my wings. And once again I had an extraordinary
(12:55):
mentor when I was in Philadelphia. And then I moved
back to Boston and nineteen seventy four, which was a
time when the price of oially quad drupled Inflacier was
through the roof. Interest bates were through the roof, the
economy was in the tank, the stock market was in
the tank.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
It was a difficult time.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
And I got a job at a small money management
firm in Boston, and I can tell the story if
you just let me briefly. It's a very quick story
about my mentor, and his name was Stu Harvey. He
hired me and he gave me the most difficult industry
in the world to follow, which was the savings and loans,
because at that time they were all just about going
(13:34):
bankrupt and I had been there. He was a gruffman,
he had a spittoon chewing tobacco all the time.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
But he said, my door is open.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
I'll answer any questions you may have, and believe me
I practically abused that privilege. And then one day I
heard two people talking about us being acquired by another company,
and I walked into his office and I said, are
we being acquired? And he said yes quietly, and I said,
does that mean last in, first out? Since I had
(14:04):
just been hired and I figured I'd be the first
one to be let go. And he said, I'm afraid so,
and a tear came down my face and he said
I had just gotten this job. And I was excited,
and he said, please don't cry. You'll make me cry.
And I thought, oh my god. So I got out
of the office quickly went back to my office, and.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Maybe half an hour.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
An hour later, he walked into my office and he said,
in his grufflease, I can't get you a job, but
I can get you an interview. And what I had
failed to realize was that he had been the director
of research at Fidelity, so he knew anyone and everyone
who was any good at all. And he sent me
down to New York and my interview was an all
(14:47):
day interview, and at the end of the day they
offered me the job as a machinery analyst in New York.
This is November of nineteen seventy four. I came back,
went into his office early the next morning.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Was there.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I had a big smile on my face. But now
with the benefit of hindsight, I think he already knew
that I had the job. And I said, I was
offered the job. And then I did a little coming
and hyng and I said, you know, I just moved
back to Boston and my whole family is here.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
What do I do?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
And he just looked me straight in the eye and
he said, do you want to make it big in
this world?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I said yes, and he said go to New York
and I did.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Now, that was a man I knew for only less
than three months of my life, and that was the
impact he had on me.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
And as a mentor, I really thrived.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I looked to people to tell me things and then
I tried to capitalize on it. And he had as
big an influence on me as people I knew.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
For ten years.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
That's a great story, and it's so true with mentors,
and they show up when you most need them, and
they're almost like teachers points in your life, and if
you're paying attention, it always can help.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
And I had someone recently say to me, oh, I
had a terrible mentor. I went, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa wo. No,
there's no such thing.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
As a bad mentor. That person was not a mentor.
A mentor is someone who is charitable, who is generous,
who gives their time and their energy for you, and
there's nothing better.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah. So you reached the peak of your career on
Wall Street in New York. I assume I know there's
other parts to your source. I want to get to those,
But where did you end up on Wall Street? And
then why did you at the top of your career,
It's at the height of success. Why did you decide
to leave?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yes, thank you for putting it that way.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I became a global partner at Invesco, which is a
giant money management firm with institutional money, global money, and
mutual funds. I also became a mother for the first
time at the age of forty five. I had become
married to someone who had three children, but I was
(16:59):
thirty six or seven and I hadn't really talked about
having more children. He was very busy with his teenage children,
and all of a sudden, when I was forty, I
said to myself.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
You have got to talk to him.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And we were having my fortieth birthday dinner and a
lovely restaurant in New York, and I said, we have
to talk about something.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And I said to him, I really want children.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
He was not expecting that, but and I'm married to
him to this day. He was fantastic. Of course, I
was then forty, which means that one has to use
a lot of intense science in a sense to help.
And when I was forty five, I gave birth to twins.
So then when I was fifty one and we were
(17:46):
having a vacation with our children up in Rhode Island,
and we came in. He came in one day and
the children were five, and he said to me, you know,
this is not a vacation for you. I'm at the
beach with the children and you are on conference calls.
And I thought about it. I had a sleepless night
and the next morning when I woke up and it
was Labor Day weekend, I said, John, on Tuesday, when
(18:08):
I go into the office, I am going to retire.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I'll give them till the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
And I walked in and I did that, and I
walked away from Wall Street because I accepted the fact
in my own mind that I wanted to raise my
own children and I had I could have gone on,
I could have had Nanny's Galore or anything like that,
and I said no. I remembered my own childhood where
I didn't have my parents, and I did not want
(18:37):
at all to have that experience for my children. And
I left not knowing exactly what I would be doing.
But I continued to go on Squawk books, and I
kept myself available, but very much spent my time at
home and eventually developed a second career as an expert
witness and a board member for corporate boards and financial
(19:02):
services companies. So I ended up being able to spend
the time I needed without a nine to nine job
and yet be intellectually stimulated.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It was very rewarding.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
You parlayed that great experience on Wall Street into a
variety of different things, and you could control your career
a little better than the pressures of being on Wall Street.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I'm sure, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So I got to ask the question, you don't seem
too witchy to me. Why do they call you the
Witch of Wall Street?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I don't feel very witchy.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
I like to think that witches can work magic community,
but that I only found out. That's what's really funny.
I only found out about that five years ago. And
so I was having my seventieth birthday party. People were
throwing it for me. I'm now seventy five, And at
some point in the party, people got up with the
microphone and we're talking, telling funny little stories. And that's
(19:55):
the first chapter in this In my second book, it's
called a Prologue of sorts. One woman got up and
talked about how she had been at bear Stearns, and
the head of institutional sales at bear Stearns called her
in and said, listen, we have this big account at
City Bank and a lot of the assets are run
by one woman. But she's very difficult. And she said
(20:17):
the men, all the men I've put on the account,
are afraid of her. And I'm hoping that you can
go in and build a nice rapport with her. And
this woman was telling my seventieth birthday party friends and
she said, I'd heard of this woman, but I never
met her. And all I knew is that when I
was in on the trading desk floor, the guys would
referred to her as the Witch.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Of Wall Street.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
This was my seventieth birthday party. I really fell on
the floor. I was I mean, I was embarrassed, I
was mortified. I wanted to disappear. But these were my
friends and they were all laughing, and I went, how
can they laugh at such a thing? And then I
started to think a lot about it, and I finally
embraced it, and a number of my friends said, don't
run away from it, because, in a sense, the characteristics
(21:03):
that might get a man called the Wolf of Wall
Street or you know, a leader or whatever. You know, energy, leadership, impatience,
attention to detail, all of those things, sometimes when they're
exhibited by a woman, she gets called the Witch of
Wall Street.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So I decided to embrace it.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
I'm not afraid of it anymore, and I'll find it
kind of funny and humorous. And I know I worked hard,
but people just look at men and women in different ways.
Women will always be more challenged and trying to get
to the top because they'll be thinking, particularly in the
investment world, where you can have a meteoric rise of sorts,
(21:45):
they're thinking, well, what if I invest all this capital
in her? And then she decides to go and have
babies and stay at home. And I think it's very
hard for people to get that idea out of their head,
and in fact I did it. Old women don't ever
expect it to be as easy to get to the
top as it is.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
For a man.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
In the world of finance. It's a twenty four to
seven business and you have to do what's right for you.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I think you're right. I think in those days you
got to look at it. Although chauvinistic and not a
kind term, which of Wall Street probably was a little
bit of a compliment from that perspective from those guys, right,
they wouldn't have been made attentative if you weren't successful
and you got the name of a book out of it.
So there you go. So let's talk a little bit
(22:34):
about you give back a lot. You're on nonprofit board.
You co founded an organization called Anchor Health Initiative, which
is Kinnecticut based and it's not for profit for the
healthcare needs of the LGBTQ community. You consult with nonprofits.
What inspired all that desire to give back, which I
think is a wonderful thing at this point in your career.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Two, I do think that the mentoring I got and
that helped me be successful. It was something that I
wanted to replicate. A mentoring can be a thousand different ways.
It can be sitting on the board of a not
for profit. It can be a fountain an organization that
to this day I'm the pro bono CEO of and
(23:16):
I love, love, love that work, and I think I've
got a lot of energy. And it's not about money
at this point. It's about sharing and it's about giving
back a mentor young women. I used to do it
at our Lady Queen of Angels School. I just met
one of my mentees the other day. She's up at
Saint Bonaventure University in upstate New York and she's going
(23:38):
on to get her nursing and APRN degrees.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I'm so proud of her. It's rewarding to me.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Giving back and sharing with eithers is a great way
to spend one's energy.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, for sure. And I noticed you do some mentoring
at Crystal Ray, one of the Crystal Ray High schools.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yes, that's the one up one hundred.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
And fourth Street. It's now getting her nursing degree.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Okay, yeah, I'm familiar. I'm familiar with them. Ironically, they
were founded by a Jesuit priest. I have met Joe
in the past, and.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Joe parks very well.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Jesuits followed you all through your life on some level
and another. That's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I love that. I love the jesuitical approach to things.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, well, they're always iconoclastic and causing trouble. Well listen,
Patricia Chadwick, it's it's been wonderful to talk to you.
The author of your new book is Breaking Glass Tales
from the Witch of Wall Street. I really appreciate all
your insights and thank you for spending the time.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Thank you, Mike, I.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Really appreciate doing with you today.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
We'll be right back after the news at the bottom
of the hour.
This is What's at Risk with Mike Christian on WBZ,
Boston's news radio. Hi, Mike Christian. Here of What's at Risk.
First up on tonight's show, we have a special encore
edition of What's at Risk with Patricia Walsh Chadwick, author
of Breaking Glass Tales from the Witch of Wall Street.
(00:23):
She shares her true story of growing up in a constrictive,
cult like Catholic community and ultimately building a successful thirty
year career in the investment business, culminating as a global
partner at Invesco. And in our second segment, we speak
with Jack Carey, executive director of Live Oak Wilderness Camp
(00:45):
in Mississippi. Jack shares an epic story about running solo
across America and talks with passion about the Live Oak
Wilderness Camp and its leadership initiatives and experiences for youth
from New Orleans. Patricia Walls Chadwick was born in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
(01:08):
in nineteen forty eight. She received her BA in Economics
from Boston University and had a successful thirty year career
in the investment business, culminating as a global partner at Invesco. Today,
she sits on a number of corporate boards, and blogs
on economics, social and political issues. Her pro bono activities
(01:28):
include mentoring young women in high school and college and
providing strategic planning advice to not for profit organizations. In
twenty sixteen, she co founded Anchor Health Initiative, a healthcare
company devoted to the needs of the LGBTQ community in Connecticut,
and serves as the firm's pro bono CEO. She is
(01:49):
the author of a previous memoir, Little Sisters. A mother
to twins, a daughter and son. She lives in Connecticut
with her husband John. She is also the author of
Breaking Glass Tales from the Witch of Wall Street.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Good Way.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
By your Oh okay, money.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Is cad as.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
We're talking with Patricia Walsh Chadwick, author of Breaking Glass
Tales from the Witch of Wall Street. Patricia, you have
a fascinating story that began well before your successful Wall
Street career, and prior to this most recent book. You
began telling the story, I think in a twenty nineteen
memoir called Little Sister. You would you mind starting with
(02:52):
your background from that point?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
My member our Little Sister, which I did come out
five years ago. What's the story of my growing up
in what had started off as a very Catholic religious community,
and it was birthed in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and it was
founded in the nineteen forties and it had as its
leader a woman named Catherine Clark who founded it, and
(03:17):
she brought in a renowned Jesuit priest, Leonard Feeney, to
be the chaplain.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
During the war and after the.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
War, many young men and women were on the GI
bill going to Harvard, Radcliffe and other schools, and father
Feeney was really a beacon of Catholicism for many of
this people converted, many sent some off to the seminary,
married many of them, and he was a very, very
(03:47):
loved personality. And after the war, however, the Archbishop of Boston,
Richard Cushing, who became Cardinal Cushing eventually, was really trying
to open the door for humanism, and father Feenie at
the center would have none of it. And he was
very adamant in no leeway on interpretation of outside the
(04:10):
Catholic Church. There was no salvation, which was a dogma
of the Catholic Church. And so little by little many
of his followers, young students left him and a small
contingent of people remained, and in December of nineteen forty eight,
Cushing told Father Feenie that he could no longer practice
(04:31):
in the Diocese of Boston. Now, my father and mother
met at the Center, as it was called, this Catholic
social club, an engagement place. My mother was nineteen, had
just become a Catholic, my father was thirty, and I had
just fought the entire war as a naval officer. They
got married six months later, and I came a year
after that, so I was an infant. And in early
(04:56):
nineteen forty nine, my father and two other people associated
with the Center were fired from Boston College, where my
father was getting his master's degree and was teaching, And
it was because they allied themselves with Father feening So
suddenly this small group of fifty men and women and
a few children and a number of married couples was
(05:19):
very much kind of outside the church. And when my
father lost his job, as with the other two professors,
they basically sold their houses and gave the money to
the Center, and from that was formed this legitimate commune
of sorts. Everybody shared their wealth, their earnings, whatever they
were doing, and that was the environment I grew up
(05:42):
in having what I thought was the most wonderful life,
fifty uncles and aunts, it would take me to the
Charles River and all that kind of thing. And continued
to live in a house with my parents that was
a three family house, and other families were living on
the other two floors, and pretty soon there were nine children,
so that made a group of about one hundred, and
(06:03):
all of a sudden, one day things changed dramatically. I
was six years old, I had four younger siblings, and
all the children that were three and over were separated
from their parents and told they were going to live
in dormitories, the boys on one floor, the girls on another,
and the parents would simply be with their remaining children.
(06:26):
And as each child got to be three years old,
they were separated, and then the parents were forced to
take powers of celibacy. And you might say forced, how
can you be forced? But it was coercion. Father feene
approached the couples. My parents said absolutely not not, And
shortly thereafter Father Feenie came back to them and said,
(06:46):
you're the only couple that's standing out and not doing this.
And they thought, gosh, we want just the best Catholic
education for our children. I guess we'd better go along
with it, and many years later I would find out
that other children were told by their parents that father
Femi had done the very same thing to them, So
it was a horrific manipulation. From thereforward, we became monastic
(07:10):
and when I was nine years old nineteen fifty eight,
we left Cambridge. We moved to still River and then
everybody was separated. The men lived in a different building
from the women. The women were in a separate part
of the building. The children were separated. We were taught
there and we met for meals, and silence was the rule.
(07:31):
We had no television, nobody know, no newspapers, no communication
with the outside world.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And we were told, the thirty nine.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Of us, that we were the most chosen children in
the world because from the day of our birth we
were dedicated to God and we were expected to become
nuns and brothers.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, I wasn't really interested in becoming a nun.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
My dream was to have a prince, a handsome prince, come,
sweep me off my feet, take me to his castle,
and we would have many children, even though I hadn't
a clue how all that would happen, and by the
time I was thirteen or fourteen, I was actually developing crushes.
And it was at that point that sister Catherine saw
(08:12):
that I was not manageable. I mean, they were completely chased.
I knew very very little about anything. But when I
was seventeen, she called me into her office and basically
told me sweetly that I didn't have a vocation. And
all of a sudden, I realized that she was kicking
me out. And two hours after I graduated. Because we
(08:34):
all were schooled and within the community, I was gone.
My siblings were not told, my parents were informed, but
they could have no say in the matter, and from
then on I was on my own. She allowed as
how I might go to secretarial school so that I
could get a job, and it was with that set
of skills that I got my very first job on
(08:54):
Wall Street as a receptionist.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Wow, that's an incredible story. So this father, did he
evolve into being this despotic cult leader or was he
sort of that way in the beginning. You probably wouldn't
know because you were a child, but maybe you heard
about how he evolved to have this control over that
group of people.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
He was beloved around the world. He spent years in
churches in Europe Catholics, Catholic nuns, and some of my
own friends today who were young and Catholic growing up
outside of the center, they would say that the nuns
would say a prayer for Father Feenie in their classrooms.
In fact, there was a time that was a very
(09:34):
antisemitic place when I was growing up. But there was
a time when Father Feenie actually embraced the Jews. But
he changed after World War Two and he basically blamed
colleges in the United States for the liberal ideals that
were being taught to young people, which was the reason
that Sister Catherine would not allow me. And she was
(09:55):
more than the power behind the throne, but she would
not allow me to go to college.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
She said I would lose my soul. But in order
to get there are tiny school accredited. She had me
apply to Vassar and debate spates have been where my
father went. I got into both schools, and then she
made me write a letter to each school saying that
I would not be coming because my job was done.
I had been accepted and now their school could be accredited,
(10:21):
which it was so.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Then you're out on You're seventeen years old, you're out
on the street. You're having to defend for yourself. And
you got a job as an administrative assistant with a
Wall Street firm or just in a general It was.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
A Broadforge firm called Bowman, And I think I just
sometimes wonder, you know, what if it had been a
car rental agency, or what if it had been a
travel in the sty.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I'd have no idea what might have might have evolved
from that.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
But all I wanted to do at the age of
nineteen when I got out of secretary school was be
the best receptionist in the world.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
And I think from that I learned a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I always had my hand up to say yes if
somebody needed something. I was learning all the time, but
I was still quite naive when it came to matters
of the world. But I just had eyes open and
ears open and mouth shut until I became much more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So I believe your book Breaking Glass tells more of
that story. As you evolved in your career on Wall Street,
maybe talk about from being a secretary and being the
best secretary it could be, how did you end up
becoming so prominent in the Wall Street world in a
time which was really difficult for women. Everybody would acknowledge
that no more, very.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Many women on Lall Street, particular, when I first started out,
I will credit a lot, and I dedicate this book
to the mentors in my life, and they were all men,
except for.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
One woman who was the principal of our.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
School, and I just felt I had to give her
a special place of honor. But once I was kicked
out of the center, the only mentors I had were men,
and I attribute so much to them, and I've learned
so much from them. But I also discovered that it
was wise to be adaptable. I wanted to learn everything,
(12:12):
but sometimes you think this is the way I'm going
to do things. And I really had to accept the
fact that sometimes I had to do something not the
way I wanted to do it. And then when things
worked out, you build up confidence, and pretty soon that
leads to resilience. And so it was a very much
a baby step at a time. Then when I moved
(12:33):
to Philadelphia, I felt I had to get out of
Boston because I just thought everybody would say I knew
her when and I didn't want people to think of
me as the receptionist who was now a stock analyst.
And when I moved to Philadelphia with my best friend
a girlfriend, that was a big opportunity for me to
spread my wings. And once again I had an extraordinary
(12:55):
mentor when I was in Philadelphia. And then I moved
back to Boston and nineteen seventy four, which was a
time when the price of oially quad drupled Inflacier was
through the roof. Interest bates were through the roof, the
economy was in the tank, the stock market was in
the tank.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
It was a difficult time.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
And I got a job at a small money management
firm in Boston, and I can tell the story if
you just let me briefly. It's a very quick story
about my mentor, and his name was Stu Harvey. He
hired me and he gave me the most difficult industry
in the world to follow, which was the savings and loans,
because at that time they were all just about going
(13:34):
bankrupt and I had been there. He was a gruffman,
he had a spittoon chewing tobacco all the time.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
But he said, my door is open.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
I'll answer any questions you may have, and believe me
I practically abused that privilege. And then one day I
heard two people talking about us being acquired by another company,
and I walked into his office and I said, are
we being acquired? And he said yes quietly, and I said,
does that mean last in, first out? Since I had
(14:04):
just been hired and I figured I'd be the first
one to be let go. And he said, I'm afraid so,
and a tear came down my face and he said
I had just gotten this job. And I was excited,
and he said, please don't cry. You'll make me cry.
And I thought, oh my god. So I got out
of the office quickly went back to my office, and.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Maybe half an hour.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
An hour later, he walked into my office and he said,
in his grufflease, I can't get you a job, but
I can get you an interview. And what I had
failed to realize was that he had been the director
of research at Fidelity, so he knew anyone and everyone
who was any good at all. And he sent me
down to New York and my interview was an all
(14:47):
day interview, and at the end of the day they
offered me the job as a machinery analyst in New York.
This is November of nineteen seventy four. I came back,
went into his office early the next morning.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Was there.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I had a big smile on my face. But now
with the benefit of hindsight, I think he already knew
that I had the job. And I said, I was
offered the job. And then I did a little coming
and hyng and I said, you know, I just moved
back to Boston and my whole family is here.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
What do I do?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
And he just looked me straight in the eye and
he said, do you want to make it big in
this world?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I said yes, and he said go to New York
and I did.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Now, that was a man I knew for only less
than three months of my life, and that was the
impact he had on me.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
And as a mentor, I really thrived.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I looked to people to tell me things and then
I tried to capitalize on it. And he had as
big an influence on me as people I knew.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
For ten years.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
That's a great story, and it's so true with mentors,
and they show up when you most need them, and
they're almost like teachers points in your life, and if
you're paying attention, it always can help.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
And I had someone recently say to me, oh, I
had a terrible mentor. I went, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa wo. No,
there's no such thing.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
As a bad mentor. That person was not a mentor.
A mentor is someone who is charitable, who is generous,
who gives their time and their energy for you, and
there's nothing better.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah. So you reached the peak of your career on
Wall Street in New York. I assume I know there's
other parts to your source. I want to get to those,
But where did you end up on Wall Street? And
then why did you at the top of your career,
It's at the height of success. Why did you decide
to leave?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yes, thank you for putting it that way.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I became a global partner at Invesco, which is a
giant money management firm with institutional money, global money, and
mutual funds. I also became a mother for the first
time at the age of forty five. I had become
married to someone who had three children, but I was
(16:59):
thirty six or seven and I hadn't really talked about
having more children. He was very busy with his teenage children,
and all of a sudden, when I was forty, I
said to myself.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
You have got to talk to him.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And we were having my fortieth birthday dinner and a
lovely restaurant in New York, and I said, we have
to talk about something.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And I said to him, I really want children.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
He was not expecting that, but and I'm married to
him to this day. He was fantastic. Of course, I
was then forty, which means that one has to use
a lot of intense science in a sense to help.
And when I was forty five, I gave birth to twins.
So then when I was fifty one and we were
(17:46):
having a vacation with our children up in Rhode Island,
and we came in. He came in one day and
the children were five, and he said to me, you know,
this is not a vacation for you. I'm at the
beach with the children and you are on conference calls.
And I thought about it. I had a sleepless night
and the next morning when I woke up and it
was Labor Day weekend, I said, John, on Tuesday, when
(18:08):
I go into the office, I am going to retire.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I'll give them till the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
And I walked in and I did that, and I
walked away from Wall Street because I accepted the fact
in my own mind that I wanted to raise my
own children and I had I could have gone on,
I could have had Nanny's Galore or anything like that,
and I said no. I remembered my own childhood where
I didn't have my parents, and I did not want
(18:37):
at all to have that experience for my children. And
I left not knowing exactly what I would be doing.
But I continued to go on Squawk books, and I
kept myself available, but very much spent my time at
home and eventually developed a second career as an expert
witness and a board member for corporate boards and financial
(19:02):
services companies. So I ended up being able to spend
the time I needed without a nine to nine job
and yet be intellectually stimulated.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It was very rewarding.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
You parlayed that great experience on Wall Street into a
variety of different things, and you could control your career
a little better than the pressures of being on Wall Street.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I'm sure, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So I got to ask the question, you don't seem
too witchy to me. Why do they call you the
Witch of Wall Street?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I don't feel very witchy.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
I like to think that witches can work magic community,
but that I only found out. That's what's really funny.
I only found out about that five years ago. And
so I was having my seventieth birthday party. People were
throwing it for me. I'm now seventy five, And at
some point in the party, people got up with the
microphone and we're talking, telling funny little stories. And that's
(19:55):
the first chapter in this In my second book, it's
called a Prologue of sorts. One woman got up and
talked about how she had been at bear Stearns, and
the head of institutional sales at bear Stearns called her
in and said, listen, we have this big account at
City Bank and a lot of the assets are run
by one woman. But she's very difficult. And she said
(20:17):
the men, all the men I've put on the account,
are afraid of her. And I'm hoping that you can
go in and build a nice rapport with her. And
this woman was telling my seventieth birthday party friends and
she said, I'd heard of this woman, but I never
met her. And all I knew is that when I
was in on the trading desk floor, the guys would
referred to her as the Witch.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Of Wall Street.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
This was my seventieth birthday party. I really fell on
the floor. I was I mean, I was embarrassed, I
was mortified. I wanted to disappear. But these were my
friends and they were all laughing, and I went, how
can they laugh at such a thing? And then I
started to think a lot about it, and I finally
embraced it, and a number of my friends said, don't
run away from it, because, in a sense, the characteristics
(21:03):
that might get a man called the Wolf of Wall
Street or you know, a leader or whatever. You know, energy, leadership, impatience,
attention to detail, all of those things, sometimes when they're
exhibited by a woman, she gets called the Witch of
Wall Street.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So I decided to embrace it.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
I'm not afraid of it anymore, and I'll find it
kind of funny and humorous. And I know I worked hard,
but people just look at men and women in different ways.
Women will always be more challenged and trying to get
to the top because they'll be thinking, particularly in the
investment world, where you can have a meteoric rise of sorts,
(21:45):
they're thinking, well, what if I invest all this capital
in her? And then she decides to go and have
babies and stay at home. And I think it's very
hard for people to get that idea out of their head,
and in fact I did it. Old women don't ever
expect it to be as easy to get to the
top as it is.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
For a man.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
In the world of finance. It's a twenty four to
seven business and you have to do what's right for you.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I think you're right. I think in those days you
got to look at it. Although chauvinistic and not a
kind term, which of Wall Street probably was a little
bit of a compliment from that perspective from those guys, right,
they wouldn't have been made attentative if you weren't successful
and you got the name of a book out of it.
So there you go. So let's talk a little bit
(22:34):
about you give back a lot. You're on nonprofit board.
You co founded an organization called Anchor Health Initiative, which
is Kinnecticut based and it's not for profit for the
healthcare needs of the LGBTQ community. You consult with nonprofits.
What inspired all that desire to give back, which I
think is a wonderful thing at this point in your career.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Two, I do think that the mentoring I got and
that helped me be successful. It was something that I
wanted to replicate. A mentoring can be a thousand different ways.
It can be sitting on the board of a not
for profit. It can be a fountain an organization that
to this day I'm the pro bono CEO of and
(23:16):
I love, love, love that work, and I think I've
got a lot of energy. And it's not about money
at this point. It's about sharing and it's about giving
back a mentor young women. I used to do it
at our Lady Queen of Angels School. I just met
one of my mentees the other day. She's up at
Saint Bonaventure University in upstate New York and she's going
(23:38):
on to get her nursing and APRN degrees.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I'm so proud of her. It's rewarding to me.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Giving back and sharing with eithers is a great way
to spend one's energy.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, for sure. And I noticed you do some mentoring
at Crystal Ray, one of the Crystal Ray High schools.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yes, that's the one up one hundred.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
And fourth Street. It's now getting her nursing degree.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Okay, yeah, I'm familiar. I'm familiar with them. Ironically, they
were founded by a Jesuit priest. I have met Joe
in the past, and.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Joe parks very well.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Jesuits followed you all through your life on some level
and another. That's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I love that. I love the jesuitical approach to things.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, well, they're always iconoclastic and causing trouble. Well listen,
Patricia Chadwick, it's it's been wonderful to talk to you.
The author of your new book is Breaking Glass Tales
from the Witch of Wall Street. I really appreciate all
your insights and thank you for spending the time.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Thank you, Mike, I.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Really appreciate doing with you today.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
We'll be right back after the news at the bottom
of the hour.
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