February 6, 2025 • 55 mins
Buying his first home at 23, then investing and flipping homes before getting his license, our guest and recent author shares the path he took to build a successful real estate career – not once but twice. This candid conversation about some significant setbacks in life and coming back to build his career a second time offers tips to others on how simple things consistently will build your business as well as his vision to help others make commitments and build wealth.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Remax real Estate Insights show
where you get real talk by real agents, brought to
you by Remax of Southeastern Michigan. Welcome to our Remax
real Estate Insights podcast. We're happy that you're joining us today.
Our show today on this episode is going to be
a little unique and we're going to be covering topics
(00:20):
that we've never addressed on our podcast before. Creating a
successful real estate career it's never necessarily easy, but doing
it more than once can take a lot of fortitude
and effort, even more so when you're having to battle
back from addiction and some other life challenges. Joining me
today for a very candid conversation is our special guest,
(00:42):
Benjamin Lang. Ben is the broker owner of a new
Remax office, Remax the collective agency in Auburn Hills, and
he is going to share his very personal story and
his experiences on how he has built a successful real
estate career more than once. So if you're out there
constit during real estate as a career, if you're already
in it and you're listening to this, I think you're
(01:03):
going to be able to get some golden nuggets from
what Ben has to share today. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Ben, Thank you, Thank you so much. I'm so glad
to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
We were thrilled to have you, and we're in these
beautiful new studios that iHeart has, and we appreciate your
making the drive down here. So I always find it
interesting to find out how people got into real estate,
and what I've said my commitment this year was every
guest on the show, I'm going to ask them, how
in the world did you land up in real estate
as your profession?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, great question. I bought my first house back in
two thousand and three. I was actually a hairstylist. Being
a hairstylist was my first career. When I bought my
first house, there was a hud house right next door,
and I thought it would be fun.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Oh naive right to you.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Since I just bought my first house, I thought it
would be great to buy the house next door and
quote unquote flip it for a profit, which I did
and luckily.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Especially for the first one when you didn't know what
you were doing, right, Oh great.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I was only twenty three years old at the time.
The next two years I went on to flip probably
another eight nine or ten.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
And then in.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Two thousand and five, my living girlfriend at the time,
she was graduating from MSU. I was living in Lansing
at the time, and she was graduating from MSU and
she was like, you know, I really want to move
back home, which was Macomb County. So I, you know,
(02:48):
and I hear this a lot from guys all over
the place. They'll pick up and move across the across
the country or across the state for a girl, which
is so I did it. If you know anything about
being you know, in the hair industry, it's very very
similar to real estate.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, you.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Have to build a clientele, true, before you really.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Make any money.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So I had already built a clientele in the hair
industry twice, and I just didn't want to do it again.
So I figured, Okay, new location, new fresh start, new opportunity,
new opportunity. I fell in love with real estate through investing,
why not, And so I went and got my license.
(03:38):
I started selling in maybe tail end of five beginning
of two thousand and six, and shortly thereafter.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
The market market kind of threw us a curve.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
All day, everything went to crap and you're.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Like, well, this seems like a great career choice.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
You know, I questioned myself back in two thousand and seven,
and you know I was. I was watching leaders in
the industry and people are agents that were selling, you know,
tens of millions exit the industry and go work at
the super dealership or art van or Yeah, and it
(04:20):
was it was actually frightening.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
But what saved me was.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I was driving in my car one day and I
heard a commercial on the radio for short sales. And
gentleman's name was Will Elias. He was you could not
turn on any radio station without hearing one of his
commercials to help facilitate short sales and get people out
(04:50):
of the hot water that they were under. Right, So
at that moment in time, I said to myself, you know,
he he has the monopoly here.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I could be the PEPSI to his coke.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Great analogy, and so at that time I decided to
jump in all the way and learn everything that I
could about short sales. So I went and got my
my CDPE, which is Certified Distressed Property Expert, my SFR,
which is Short Sale and Foreclosure Resource, and I talked
(05:27):
to attorneys, and I talked to title companies, and even
I was with Keller Williams at the time and Noley Williams.
If anyone remembers Noley Williams back in the day, he
he had a short sale course that I bought. And
so I recognized that there was an opportunity where most
(05:52):
agents were trying to do things the same way and
achieve the same results, right, and.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
But the market shifted and where the business was wasn't
the same old way.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
The market had shifted, and so I need I realized
that I needed to pivot quickly.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
And I think that's one thing that I'm I've.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Been really good at in my career is pivoting along
with the change with the market conditions, with new laws
and regulations changing the strategy. So I, you know, I
learned everything I could about short sales, and then I
went and I took my last ten thousand dollars and
(06:33):
I gave it to RIFF Radio station, and.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I was generous of you.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It was it was it was Mike and Orange, Yeah, Drew,
Mike and I continue to do that for the next
couple of years. In the next few years, uh, and
then it was David Chuck and ran really heavy ads
during the morning shows. And I'll tell you, like, my
(07:01):
business was growing at such a rapid pace, I couldn't
keep up. I had to start, not had to, but
I did. I started my own team.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, brought people out.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
You know, employees and agents back in two thousand and eleven,
really before teams were a thing, and so it was
quite quite the ride, and I'm just grateful for what
it was.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
And then fast forward, you.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Know, built the team and then opened my own brokerage
in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
So I mean that's I mean, you go back to
where it all started. You know, you're saying at twenty three,
you bought your first house, and hats off to you.
I mean, because not everybody at twenty three does that, right,
I mean, they just don't. I mean, not everybody at
that young age takes that financial leap. And so I
think that's a huge message to potential listeners out there.
(08:00):
You and I both know a great way to build
wealth is owning real estate. And you know, folks that
own home have a higher network than those that are renters.
And so that was a really good first step. And
you know, you kind of laughed when you said it,
and you know, well, the house next to me was
a hud and I thought I'd do that, but that
kind of set you down again. You took a risk,
but it paid off. And that seems to be kind
(08:20):
of a theme. It's like short sales. That was a
phrase nobody really knew before two thousand and five and six.
Certainly by seven people were getting what it was. But
I mean, that was not something the industry spent any
time learning anything about. But it was going to become
more business was going to be had, and like you said,
you took a risk, you pivoted, got some education, took
some money to advertise this as what you could do,
and it paid off for you.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, it really did.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I mean I was closing one year, I closed one
hundred and fifty transactions on my own before before the team.
Like I said, they were some of the best years
in my career, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, And on top.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Of that, it was so much more fulfilling because people
were really in a bad spot during those years And
while you know I helped sellers today, it was it
was much different on a much larger scale back then.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
It's interesting you say that because there are people that
you know that have been in the business long enough
to have gone through that phase, let's say two thousand
and six to twenty ten eleven. You know in there
where there were a lot of short sales and foreclosures.
And it's interesting they said, that was really I'm going
to put a little bit of words in your mouth
fulfilling to you. It was a different way of helping
people because i've you know, some people said, well, those
weren't happy closings. I want to get back to the
(09:37):
market where people were happy at the closing table. Well,
they may not have been happy, but there was certainly relief.
There was certainly you know, some other things that you
were delivering.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Back then one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
People were carrying a lot of burden, a lot of burden,
financial burden, emotional burden, you know, facing foreclosure, and to
help them avoid the actual foreclosure and salvage their credit somewhat.
I mean, obviously in a short sale it still takes
a hit, but to bring some kind of closure to
(10:08):
the situation was was really nice.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So everything was going. You kind of had this nice
trajectory going. You bought a house, you know, started to flip,
got into real estate, got your education, you know, growing
a team, open your own brokerage. Everything was going real well.
I mean it certainly seems like it was going great.
And you had a charm life and you did until
you didn't, right until until until you didn't, And you
(10:35):
had a couple of things happen that kind of took
your life in a different direction and you had to
kind of, you know, at some point in time, start over.
And you've wrote in a book a little bit about this.
It all Begins with You is a book that just
got published in the fall.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Correct, I did, I did, Yes, it was just published
in October.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And the subtitle line it is how to Rise above
the ads, overcome addiction, and live your dream life. And
I give you so much credit that you're willing to
go down this path and talk about this because so
many of us, and in the day and age of
social media, we all put on the shiny face, right.
All the pictures are the dream vacation, the perfect meal,
you know, the great sporting event I'm at, And not
(11:13):
many people are willing to kind of show real life,
but you are. And so you had built this great career,
you had kind of started, you know, you were you know,
kind of working your way through the real estate industry,
from being a buyer to being an agent, to running
a team, to owning a brokerage. You were just not
checking all the boxes. And then can you share what
happened in life and kind of how you dealt with it?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So in twenty fifteen, my sister committed
suicide and I had a really tough time dealing with
the emotions of that. So shortly thereafter it was right
into alcoholism and then shortly after that into drug addiction.
(11:56):
So twenty fifteen sixteen seven team were mostly spent getting
drunk and getting high most most every day, if not
every day.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And that I mean I, first of all, deepest sympathies
on the loss of your sister. You know, time can pass,
but it doesn't take away doesn't take away the loss.
So deepest sympathies on that. And so you had built
this great life and tragedy happens, and you very much
acknowledged this is this is what I did. Where at
what point did you did you kind of say all right,
(12:32):
this isn't what I want for my life and kind
of pick yourself, you know, back up, kind of what
was epiphany or what was it that kind of got
you to I want to say, snap out of it,
because that's way too easy of a phrase for what
you did.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, it's not to sound cliche, but I really had
to hit rock bottom within a six month time frame.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
I was.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Incarcerated in inpatient rehab for thirty three days. Divorce, bankruptcy,
car repossession, and homeless Uh so, most all the bad
things that you can ever think of, I went through
in a window six.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I was just gonna say me because they talk about
stressful things in life, right, you know, death, divorce, you know, moving,
I mean those, you know, we know those. But when
I listened to you rattle off all the things that
you went through, you know, homelessness, that's stressful. You know,
car repossession, rehab, you know all of those, and that
would be almost the cavalcade or the cascade of events
(13:36):
that happened could be enough to really bury somebody. I mean,
and just be that. Okay, you thought you were at
rock bottom, but then all of this happened. Now I'm
truly at rock bottom. And you've got some choices to make,
and they're in one door or what you know, one
choice could be very very negative. I mean, you may
not come back from.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, And that's what my book is about.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Honestly, I wrote the book because I just felt like
God was calling me to share my story and be
completely vulnerable about my story because I did. You only
had when when that happens, you only have two choices.
You either get back and dust off and move on,
(14:16):
or you succumb to what's happening and play the victim
card and maybe continue to drink and use drugs, or
even worse, quit on life. There's just but it's it's
within us to make that choice and to to wake
(14:37):
up every single morning and.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
And try and win the day to get our lives back.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So let's talk about winning the day. Because you you
had all these things happen to you in a relatively
short period of time, and at some point you said,
you know, I have it within me to make different choices.
I have it within me to dust myself off and
do something. How did you start to rebuild the real estate?
You know you you chose to stay in real estate.
How did you start to rebuild and get back?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, so I had to go back to the basics. Now,
keep in mind, I at some times was running a brokerage,
but mostly was drinking and drugging. So I didn't sell
for about three and a half years. So I lost
my sphere of.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Influence, which is so I mean, if anybody's and like
you said, building a client database, whether it's here, you know,
styling or real estate or anything else. Losing that database,
losing that sphere of influence, that's your book of business,
that's where repeat business and referral business comes from. That's
a big loss.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
It was a huge loss.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So in twenty eighteen, once I got I got right,
or got solber, I should say, I definitely wasn't right
and at that point, but at least I wasn't I
wasn't drinking and drugging at that point. Twenty eighteen, I
sold eight houses, which for me, I mean I was
(16:00):
used to selling you know, one hundred.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I just say, yeah, you mentioned at one point, yeah
in the short is that you were selling one hundred plus.
So yeah, right, eight's better than.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Zero, it is, it is better than zero, you know,
just just working. I was door knocking, I was cold calling.
I was really going back to basics, and it all
comes down the prospecting. So I was a prospecting machine.
So and then it just progressed, right, So eighteen was
(16:31):
eight houses, and then I think nineteen was twenty three
or twenty four houses, and then it was forty houses
and got up to I think twenty twenty three. I
sold seventy two houses last year almost sixty houses. So
it was it was having the patients. It was you know,
(16:56):
it requires a lot of faith. It requires a lot
of faith because you know, people will talk about consistency
and the habits and the actions, but you know, you
don't see the results.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
You don't see checks for quite a while.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
No, I mean, you can make a lot of phone
calls and you're not getting a check on Friday for
the all the you know, hundreds or dozens of phone
calls that you made.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, you're usually not seeing the results of your activities
for at least ninety days, ninety days minimum, right, so
you really have to wake up every day. And I
always make the analogy it's like a farmer, right, they
plant their seedlings, and they nurture those seedlings and water
(17:46):
them and make sure that you know, insects and birds
aren't destroying and they're out there every day working on
these a future crop, and they can't see those those
sprouts else, depending on what it is, for maybe sometimes months. Right,
So they have to have this faith that if they
(18:07):
go out there every day and pour into those crops,
that it's going it's going to come up and those
seedlings are going to sprout and turn into what the
farmer's intent is.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It's like, yeah, if I continue to do all the
right things, Like but you said, there's a big bit
of faith in there, I can't see the magic happening
under the soil. If you're a farmer, and if you're
ben making phone calls, I mean, you could make a
dozen calls in a day. It doesn't mean somebody's ready
to sell a house somebody, but you know, it's a
numbers game. If I keep doing this every day, I
get up and I do the right things. I talk
to people, I prospect, I'd let them know I'm there
(18:43):
to help them if they have a real estate need.
At some point in time. I'm going to get a
yes at some point in time. But to stick with it,
it does require fortitude, faith, and a lot of other things.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
It really does.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And I'll you know, share something else. It was as
part of my sobriety journey. I was trying to make
up for all the bad things that I had done.
So I was really and still am just trying to
provide people with as much value and empathy and compassion.
(19:17):
But in the beginning of my sobriety journey, I was
taking it to an extreme where, you know, anyone that
I could help because I was I was trying to
really not a race, but definitely make up you know,
I wasn't a good person during my addiction. And so
I'm also a true believer that it's not just the
(19:39):
actions as far as like prospecting and things like that,
but it's also pouring into other people and helping where
you can, and you know, kind of making deposits in
the bank with the universe or whatever you believe in.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Well, and and like you said, you know out of
you know, I have not traveled the path that you have.
But you know, obviously, like you said, you know and
I know, sobriety is a journey. And you're saying, you know,
try to try to help others where you could. You
can't erase maybe things that were said and done in
the past, but I can see somebody else who's struggling
and help them, And that kind of goes back into
you know, you've got such fulfillment back in the short
(20:20):
sailing foreclosures days, you know, helping people. You're doing the
same thing now, just in a different way. It's not
like in one little avenue of effort. It's like I
see people struggling, I'm going to help them, and I do.
I tend to agree. You put good things out there.
In time, it comes back, it comes back to you.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
It does. It does, absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Given that you so you started kind of with the basics,
door knocking, prospecting, you know, things of that nature, and
it kind of, you know, it got you back on
you know tracks. So given what you've been through, because
you've started a real estate career at least twice, I mean,
where you've kind of built it from from nothing to
something significant, what advice would you have if there's somebody
out there listening that either is newly licensed or thinking
(21:00):
of getting into real estate this year, and you know,
what advice would you give to somebody on what they
should be thinking about, what they need to consider doing
to be successful.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, someone new to the industry. I'm going to share
I'm actually going to share like four things. Number one
I had to learn this the hard way. Successes is rented,
it's not owned. I thought that I had reached the
pinnacle of success and it was all stripped away from me.
(21:33):
So you don't get to the destination and then it's yours.
We're not entitled to what we've earned thus far. We
have to continue to earn it every single day.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I mean, great advice, I mean, and I think you
can see that come through. It's very personal in the
story that you're telling, but I think you can see
that even in other things. I mean, let's take sports
for example. We're in the height of football playoff season
as we're recording this. Just because you've got a good
team on paper doesn't mean you don't go play the game.
And just because you're supposed to win on paper doesn't
(22:06):
mean you have to show up and actually everybody do
their job on game day to make this happen. Nobody
can you, And I get I think it is easy
for people to say, well, I worked hard for this
success and now that I'm here, like Tuda, you know
I'm here forever. And that isn't the way it works.
You still have to get up every day and do
the right things and be consistent and do what it
got to take you there, or you'll slip back real quickly.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
One hundred percent. I mean, I'll give another example too.
I mean, I'm nearly a twenty year veteran in this industry.
I've sold over a thousand houses in my career, and
I role play.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
With my agents.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I have a role play partner every morning Monday through Friday,
fifteen minutes we're role playing for prospecting. It's really important
that number one, Once you think that you have everything
figured out, that's the day you're gonna lose. Once you
(23:04):
think you have it all figured out, the day you're
gonna lose.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Life's gonna throw something at you to teach you a
humbling lesson, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Number Two, I think there's so much importance to being
in the right rooms, and so I always want to
be the least intelligent person in the room. I always
want to be the least successful person in the room.
I make it a point to surround myself with people
(23:35):
who possess the traits or the level of success or
the qualities that I'm going that I want to achieve.
Because we we inherently we rub off on each other,
right it's like one bad apple can ruin the you know.
(23:57):
So it's really important to put yourself in the right
place rooms and surround yourself with the right people.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
And I love the fit that and I think a
lot of successful people, when you talk to them, will
echo somewhat of what you just said. As far as
I want to surround my possible with people that know
more than I do. If you're if you don't want
yes people around you, Oh you're the greatest, I mean,
always nice to hear, but realistically to continue to move forward, Yeah,
you want people that understand different aspects of the business
(24:25):
or you know, anything that you're involved with, so you
can soak up that knowledge. I think that's great, great advice,
and I again I think a lot of successful people
you will get that theme that you hear from them.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Going back to our earlier question, I do want to
share those I said I had four things. The second
thing is study everything that you possibly can about human behavior.
My degree is in psychology and I totally geek out
on the psychology of sales, and.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I've spent a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Of time studying human behavior and instead of scripts, I'm
more into the nuances in how to persuade people and
the psychology of persuasion. So I would study the psychology
the psychology of persuasion or human behavior as much as
(25:22):
humanly possible. You know, today we have YouTube and just
so many different free ways to learn and educate yourself.
And then I would also take as much time to
learn about myself and who I am, and what my
(25:42):
value system is and what I'm really gunning for in
the future. I think it's really important because for me,
I'm a listing agent. You know, ninety eight percent of
my sales every year are listings the two person and
our buyers. It really takes confidence to be a strong
(26:05):
listing agent, and and a large part of that confidence
is knowing exactly who you are, what your value system is,
what you what you believe in, what you're willing to
fight for. It's really really important. And then I also
think that you know, learning about self discipline and really
(26:27):
focusing on you know, what books can I read to
to get better at self discipline, because your success is
really going to be related to those things, right, So
it's going to be related to persuasion your self discipline.
I think those are two of the key factors that
are going to make a very successful real estate agent.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Absolutely, And I think you're right. People understanding humans, how
they think, how they react, you know, and things of
that nature and being able to tap into that and
and maybe that we're not real estate agents or many
psychiatrists or psychologists out there. But the more that you
can understand that nuance and guide people through that, the
(27:11):
more successful I think you're going you're going to be.
And reading it. I mean, I'm a big believer. I
always have, you know, typically I have a couple of
books going you know, at a time, you know, and
stuff like that. And you know, of course you can always,
you know, add bens to your list. It all be
it all begins with you. But like you said, there's
so many opportunities with YouTube and the social platforms, and
I mean, nowadays there's no excuse to not be learning.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I mean, I'm listening to Audible every time I'm in
my car. Yeah, listening to Audible. And so I have
a couple of books that I listen to every single year.
One is how to How to Win Friends and Influence
People Carnegie yep, a.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Classic, Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
The other one is Emotional Intelligence, Okay, and they have
two point zero out there. So that was actually my
fourth thing is always be growing, Always be growing, never
be stagnant, Never get caught on that treadmill.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Personal growth.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I forget who said it, but a quote that I
always relate to is work harder on yourself than you
do at your job.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Well, and because you, I mean especially in real estate,
I mean you are a big you know, you are
a big part of the of the equation. You the
person how you show up and that's great. I mean
that is great advice. And you know, it was different
advice than what they what somebody that might be listening
would hear from somebody else on how to be successful.
They'd get to the well, you got to hold open houses,
(28:40):
or you have the door knock, or you have to
do this. Then there's a lot of different avenues that niches.
If you will that you can be successful in real estate.
It doesn't make one better, you know, just what appeals
to people. I like that you went in a completely
different direction and it was all you know, I'm pointing
to my head and my temples. It's all you know
up here. Work on yourself, you know, work on what
you know knowledge, you know that you can bring to
(29:01):
the table how to interact with humans always be growing
and learning. And it was interesting because you know, I'm
going to pull back to you know, back in the two, seven, eight, nine,
ten eleven, you know, when the market really pivoted to
short sales and foreclosures like we had never seen before
twenty twenty four. I mean, it was a different year
in real estate. We had the nar settlement and kind
(29:24):
of all this noise around settlements and how was this
going to change? How you know, agents communicated with buyers
and or sellers and the relationship with everybody just out
of curiosity. Did you have a lot of your agents
concerned about that? How did you lead your people through that?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, agents were definitely concerned. You know, we we just
we give our agents the tools to succeed, so, you know,
I it really didn't change much. In my opinion, we
should have always been getting a buyer broker agreement signed
(30:01):
before we show show to house, right, in my opinion,
it's the professional thing to do. We don't get paid
until we until we.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Earn our commission at the end of the road.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
So I've always referred to throughout my career the exclusive
buyer agency agreement as a loyalty agreement with clients, and
it's it's I'm loyal to you, you're loyal to me,
and now we're we're supporting each other's best interests. I
think people that agency and fiduciary responsibilities should have been
(30:38):
explained to buyers before jumping in a car and carting
them all over the place. So I think in that
respect that was needed for our industry.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I think that.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
We need to portray ourselves as realtors or real estate
agents on a on a more professional level level, like
such as a doctor an attorney. I mean, we can
cert we can make the same income as an attorney,
but our level of entry is is forty hours in
(31:12):
a state test.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
It doesn't really jive for me.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
So I think it's up to us to to kind
of get rid of that that persona that you know,
we are maybe like used car salesmen, and that's how
a lot of consumers see us.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
And yeah, sadly, over the years, the industry hasn't ranked high,
you know, on professions that consumers tend to trust. Yet
most everybody that buys yoursell a home does use the
services you know of an agent because they don't you know,
they're not necessarily good at negotiating. They don't know, you know,
they don't have the means to market a home the
way it needs to be marketed. And I've always thought
(31:51):
that there's an opportunity for there, because I think most
people in this industry are in for the right reasons
and they really do want to help people, and yet
to have transparency to you know, fully explain you know,
the process and the relationships and things of that nature.
I agree, and I think a lot of good agents
were doing it well before you know, all of the
lawsuits and stuff that happened, you know, last year. The
(32:14):
market over the last few years, not so much twenty
twenty one, but as we started to get into twenty
two twenty three, interest rates started to tick up. A
market that already didn't have enough inventory gut even tighter.
It's been interesting, you know, to kind of see you
still have agents having best years ever, you know, I
mean still find in a way to do business, having
their best year ever. And then you have some others,
(32:35):
you know, veterans that business has maybe fallen a little bit.
I know, you gave advice to to folks that might
be new in the industry, and maybe the advice would
be the exact same. But if you have somebody that's
listening out there that's been an agent, you know they're
not They're a veteran at that, they've been around a while,
but business has kind of fallen off a little bit.
They don't want to get out, they want to stay in.
What advice would you have for somebody like.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
That, Uh yeah, work harder.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, don't sit there and wait for it to come
to you, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I mean, let's let's get real.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
You know, twenty eighteen, nineteen, twenty twenty one, you know
the business was easy. You know, you could throw a
stone and get a client. That started to turn in
twenty two and the agents that are that are selling
more are working harder, they're they're pivoting, they're changing their strategy.
(33:27):
And I'm not saying work more hours. I'm just I'm
just saying, like, it's get down to the basics. It's
it's all going to come down to prospecting. My philosophy
is this, if you speak to thirty consumers every single
week and have a conversation that is longer than two
(33:51):
minutes about buying or selling real estate, there's no way
that you can lose.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
So I heard a couple of numbers there, thirty conversations
more than two minutes. And if you do that consistently.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Week in and week out, yeah, the business is there,
you'll win.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, the business. The business is there. We're talking with
Ben Laying. He is the broker owner of Remax, the
collective agency in Auburn Hills, and you are now back
to having the you know, the broker hat on. Literally
right now he has a Remax hat on, but I
mean the you know, the broker owner hat, which means
you are now guiding agents that are part of your company.
(34:30):
And I know that you're big into education, you know,
talk to me about some of the things that you
are doing, you know, with your agents to help them
win and do the right things.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
So, first and foremost, I wrote an e book called
Listing Domination, and I've been teaching it on stages across
the country for the last four years or so with
different organizations Club Wealth, National Association of Real Estate Brokers.
So I'm taking you know, I think personally that listening
(35:05):
agents are going to win.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Well.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Listings are king, right, I mean, in our industry, there's
kind of always been. I mean, you're somewhat in control
if you if you could secure listings, you're in control
because buyers will come to you. Your buyers agents will
bring business to you.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Listening, I mean, listenings are leverage. You you get free leads,
you're the dollar per hour ratio is much greater than
working with buyers. There's just so many advantages to being
a strong listing agent. So I'm really uh, everyone that's
that's that's with us now. I'm helping them to transition
(35:39):
their business from uh only buyer business and and start
getting into the listing game as well. And beyond that,
you know, I uh, I talk a lot about mindset
with my agents and because a lot of times we
can fix.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
We can fix it.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Maybe an agent that's not performing at their highest level
nine times out of ten, it's going to come down
the mindset and in the commitments that they've made to themselves.
In fact, two days ago Tuesday, I had a goal
setting workshop with all of my agents, and I created
(36:25):
worksheets and we all sat in a room together and
really broke down those goals, which I hate to refer
to goals as goals. I'd rather say commitments. But we
really took those commitments and broke them down, you know,
the end of year commitment, and broke down, Okay, what
do I need to do quarterly? What do I need
(36:46):
to do monthly? What do I need to do weekly?
What I need to do daily? And created a roadmap
for success because I think a lot of a lot
of agents are going blindly right, and it's that they're
missing their lighthouse or their GPS or navigation system. We
have to know where we're going and how we're going
(37:09):
to get there.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
And I do love what you just said about commitment
versus goal, because the goal does sound kind of like
this is something I kind of want. You know, you're
asking me for an idea and I'm going to throw
a number or a result or something at you. Commitment
to me is hard that I am going to do this.
It's not an if, it's not a wish, it's not
a desire out there Like this, commitment to me is
(37:32):
a much stronger word. I like that you use that
with them.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, and also I want to know you know, okay,
you know I want to lose thirty pounds, Well, why
what would that do for your life? I want to
go like seven levels deep on why you want what
you want, because I want you to go seven levels
deep with it and really figure out, you know, why
(37:56):
that's so important to you. I want to make one
hundred grand, Okay, great, Why what will that do for you?
What will that do for your family?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Because that makes it real. I mean I think we
both know, because I mean the example that you gave
is very common in the real estate industry. Right, everybody
wants to make a one hundred grand. I mean, you're
gonna throw a number out there. Nobody says ninety five,
Nobody says one ten. Everybody wants a hundred, Right, That's
kind of like the benchmark. For whatever reason, that's become
the industry answer. But I like what you're saying is
(38:29):
what does that do for you?
Speaker 3 (38:30):
You know?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
And then it can start to get into depending on
the person. While it might be the family vacation that
they can now take, it might be the second home
they can I mean, everybody has reasons behind it. But
it's nice to, like you said, go the seven layers deep,
because now this becomes really personal. I'm super focused on
what I want to do because now it means something.
It's not a number. On a sheet of paper, and
(38:52):
we need that.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I mean, if we're going to get hung up, listen,
I'm if I'm asking them to have six conversations every
day to get their thirty conversation, they're probably going to
get hung up on three to five times. They're probably
going to get cursed out maybe once a day or
at least twice a week. So they have to have
that deep rooted.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Why yes, strong enough to get to get passed and
say okay, that was I got mine for the week,
you know, next, and pick it very back up again. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
And we're also you know, my vision is to really
get into wealth creation because of my investment backgrounds. You know,
I really want to take everyone that's with our company
and if we're if we're in the the the industry
and we're able to find maybe those below market value properties,
(39:47):
we should be buying them.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
I've heard more than one, you know, industry speaker say that.
I mean, we've got any active agent who's in the market,
you know, knows what's coming on the market, what's going on,
should be able to see opportunity when they're there. And
I love that. So you're focusing on listing domination you know,
getting your agents to become you know, comfortable, confident and
going that route. You're working on mindset, you're working on
(40:10):
commitment setting, we won't call it goal setting. And uh
in the vision to kind of for where you want
to kind of even take this even a step further.
Is wealth creation in real estate? I think I said it,
you know a little bit early in this. We know
that being involved in real estate as far as owning
it is a great wealth creator, you know, for you immediately,
but it tends to also be for generations to come.
(40:32):
I mean you can if maybe somebody you're the first
to own a home in your family, you are starting
a new trend, you know, for you know, for your family,
for generations to come. Probably.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
And it's not only that, but right now I'm into
I'm on a new a new topic Okay that really
interests me, which is limiting my tax liability.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Well, well can be back in April. We'll talk about that.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
So it takes you so you know, that's also part
of my vision. It's wealth creation, it's limiting tax liability.
It's being a true business owner and being focused on
profit instead of maybe just selling houses.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Well, and I think that whether you're have a real
estate licenser, you have some other profession, you know, whatever
that may be. I think the one thing that at
least I mean, it's been a while since I've been
in high school or college, but I mean I feel
like you can get through high school and college and
not really have a lot in the way of life skills, right,
I mean skills that you really should have to understand
how to financially manage your life. And I think anything
(41:34):
that you can do to help other people, like you said,
wealth creation, you know, understanding you know, I'm not saying
to not pay taxes. No, I'm not saying it at all.
But I mean there's a tax code. I mean, if
we understood it better, we could probably take better advantage tons.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Of tax codes.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Because I've been studying the past three weeks or so,
and there's tons of tax codes. I mean, I'm I'm
not advocating not paying your taxes by any means at all.
I'm just saying there's a lot of codes that work
in our favor and that we're not taking advantage of.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
No.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I mean, and I guess God blessed turbo tax and
you know, the H and R blocks that allow people
to do it on their own. But let's be honest,
we're not You're not an expert at this, and I wouldn't,
you know, do my own surgery. I mean it's like,
I mean, just because you can do it yourself and
there's an app for that, as they say, doesn't necessarily
mean you're you're being best served. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
I think we just you know, as an agent, we
need to look at ourselves as an entrepreneur. I don't
know if enough agents really consider themselves an entrepreneur and
are really focused on profit and metrics and tax code
and no.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Not because to some degree, I mean, I think a
lot of people got into this they want they wanted
to be in business for them. They wanted the freedom
and the flexibility and the things that a career in
this can bring. But not a lot necessarily came with
that skill set or from the beginning I'm going to
run this like a business.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
And I certainly at the beginning of my career I did.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
They're not plating fingers.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
I'm not playing fingers at all.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
I'm just saying, like I want for the agents that
work for me, I want them to be equipped with
the knowledge to be a true entrepreneur and be focused
on their their metrics and their profit and loss and
there and tax code and wealth creation.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
I just think there's so much more to this.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Well, I think that, I mean, and obviously some I mean,
this is going to resonate with a lot of folks
out there. You've had some nice growth, you know, with
your office in the very early stages. There's no reason
to believe that's going to stop anytime soon. And when
you can provide you know, all of that, you know,
for your for the people that choose to affiliate with you,
they're getting so much more than you know, a place
(43:52):
to hang a license. And in our industry right now,
there's no shortage of companies that are willing to hang
a license for very little in return. And you get
what you pay for, right, I mean, that's the way
I look at You get I mean, and not just financially,
I mean, you just get it. I mean, if somebody's
basically saying, come here and we're going to leave you
alone and do your own thing, trust trust them when
they say that they're being very honest. You're not going
(44:12):
to get any support and coming to an office like yours,
where You're not only helping them with their the skill
set in the mindset to do their profession list and
sell real estate, help consumers buy and sell properties. You're
helping them become better business people. And that's invaluable. And
I hope that people can see what you're offering and
(44:33):
then like where your mind is going. And you're already,
like you know, in the chess game, a couple of
steps ahead doing this right now. But I see where
I'm going and where I can take them.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Yeah, I want to change lives on a on a
very profound level.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
That's my goal commitment. That's my commitment.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, a good call out, that's your commitment.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
As we headed to twenty twenty or you know, we're
kind of on the early the doorstep of twenty twenty
five was going to just pick your brain real lightly.
I guess on kind of a couple of things. What
do you see for the industry as a whole? Interest
rates are likely going to stay I think in the
six is all years. How do you think this year
is going to be as far as real estate sales?
Do you think more inventory is going to become available?
Kind of what are what are you kind of counseling
(45:17):
your agents that they should expect this year from a
market perspective.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Yeah, I'm very optimistic about this year. In fact, I
know that a lot of agents have exited the industry
over the last two years or at least put their
license in holding, So I believe that the competition is
going to be.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Less this year.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
I believe that the transaction count will be much greater.
And I'll tell you why a couple of reasons.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
I do think that.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
If and when our rate hits a five point, it's
like a lot of a lot of people because the
market is bottlenecked right now because nobody wants to leave
their two and a half or their three percent that
they that they got during the pandemic. So everyone's been
pulling back and holding back and at the expense of,
(46:18):
you know, their daily living situation.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
I agree, yeah, right, yeah, And they're putting up with
a house that's too big or too small, or.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Something too small, and they could have like created a
much better environment for themselves and then and their family
a long time ago. But people have been waiting for
the market to come down, and the rates that come down, well,
rates are never going to be at three percent right.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
I mean, I completely agree, and if they are, something
has happened on a global scale that none of us
see coming.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
If they go down to two and a half or
three percent, it means something that happened in our world
that is really really bad. So we don't want them
to be two and a half.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
No, no, no, I'm perfectly fine with them. Yeah, not going
ye back there. And I think, and I'm hoping that
rates have now been at this rate for a little bit,
people are understanding this is where they are. If you
keep waiting for something to go back to what it was,
I completely agree with you. I don't see it going there.
My first house it was eight point seven something when
I bought. I mean, since it is not bad in
(47:22):
the big picture.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Oh three, I think I was at seven point five. Yeah,
you know three, we're normal therese are normal rates. Right,
But here's what I think. I think, Uh, even if
the rates don't go down to the five point nine
ninety nine, but I really hope that they do, because
I think that would that would release that bottleneck that's
that we currently have. But what I what I mainly
(47:43):
believe is that well number one, the millennial generation.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
They still.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Are pretty the percentage, they're pretty still low as far
as percentage of home as yes, right, And so I
think the millennials are going to have to pick it up,
and then the gen xers they're all going to be
coming into like their twenty six, twenty seven, twenty nine,
you know, engagements and babies.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
And moving out of mom and dad's house.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
We have a major shortage of housing for these generations
that are coming into home buying. It's a definite problem.
So I don't see values going anywhere for a long time.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
No, And that's kind of what I've tried to say,
if you know, if if it comes up in any
conversations that I'm having, is you know, first of all,
interest rates aren't going back. This is worth and I agree,
I think psychologically if the first number started with the five, yeah,
people be jumping off the fence like crazy. Yeah, you know,
I completely completely agree with that. But again, demand exceeds supply,
(48:49):
and while we may while pricing increases might moderate a
little bit, they might not bump up as high and
as quickly as they have in the last few years.
That trajectory, I believe is still upward. So while you're
sitting there waiting for the interest rates to come down,
the cost to buy that house is going to continue
to go up.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
I mean think about the people that you know in
twenty twenty two when the rates was worth seven and
they put it on the back burner that that let's
say it was a three hundred thousand dollars house. The
house is probably forty or fifty thousand dollars higher now. Yep, right,
So they missed the boat there. But I think this
(49:27):
is the year that people finally say to themselves and
come to terms with the rate is what it is.
It's normal. It's the new normal.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
The values are not going to decline anytime soon. I'm
sick of my current living situation.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
I'm gone on with bread. Yeah, that's what I think. Personally.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
I think there's a large population that's finally going to
have that mindset.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
And I mean it would be nice because the market
needs some inventory, you know for sure, And I tend
to agree you can, you can put up with a
lot of things for a short period of time, but
when you when the house no longer meets your needs
and you're going and as I kind of look at it,
at least year three of this. I mean if you
kind of put everything on pause when interest rates start
going up. Is if I'm older, you know, and I
(50:17):
have a house like a colonial with stairs, At what
point is this becoming too much? And I am hopeful
that yes, And especially as we start to roll into
the spring season, you know, historically a little busier time
of the year, we'll see some more inventory coming. So
with that, how do agents prepare? I mean, assuming that
you're right and I don't disagree with you, that you
know this year will be a better year. How you
(50:38):
kind of said it before ninety days? You know what
you do today? If that's what happens ninety days from now, well,
ninety days will be in spring. So what do agents
need to do so they can capitalize on this business
that's coming?
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (50:48):
Really?
Speaker 2 (50:49):
You know, I tell my agents make sure that you're
you're looking at real estate news and mortgage news first
thing before you start prospecting, so that you can share
that with everyone that you're talking with for that day.
You know, you position yourself as the authority you're educating people.
I think what I would say to agents is stop
(51:11):
letting the media educate our clients.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
You be the educator.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
That's great advice. That's great advice. That's in part what
they're paying for, and you're delivering value then too. Anybody
can read a headline, and that's a lot what a
lot of people do, right, read the headlines. They don't
may not go real deep into the story. But a
consumer isn't in it every day. And now you can
take that and interpret that and explain what that means,
you know, to them. Absolutely, I agree with you wholeheartedly
(51:38):
on that.
Speaker 3 (51:39):
It's our responsibility. Yeah, this is our responsibility.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
And again show them that, show them the value that
you can bring to the table. You're you're more than
opening the door. I mean, don't let that be the perception,
right you know of our industry. Oh there they open
doors for me. No, you're you're much deeper than that.
So we've been talking with Ben Laying, the broker owner
of Remax, the collective agency, and Ben kind of wrapping
it up here today. You were very kind to share
(52:05):
with us your story, very kind of shared that it
wasn't a straight line trajectory. You took the scenic route
a couple of a couple of times, but you've created
you know, a great second time. You know, career in
real estate and sharing that with agents. If somebody was
interested in getting the book, it all begins with you.
How can they do that?
Speaker 3 (52:26):
It all begins with you? Dot com.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
It's also on Amazon, It's on Audible, Kindle, an anywhere
you can find any other book.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
All right, well? Great? And then secondly, maybe if somebody
out there is listening and they want to reach out
to you directly, either as an agent or a consumer
with real estate needs, how would they get in touch
with you?
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, call me on my cell phone. Honestly, it's two
four eight eight three five two three four zero.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Give that number one more time.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah, two four eight eight three five two three four zero.
Do I have time for a story?
Speaker 1 (53:04):
You absolutely do?
Speaker 3 (53:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
So I used to coach agents for an organization called
Club Wealth. I think it was three or four years ago.
I had an agent in Colorado. Okay, Colorado. She texted
me three days ago and she's like, this is so weird.
(53:26):
I saw you speak at at a Club Wealth event
and I kept your number and it's been like three years.
She's like, I have a brokerage, but I only have
one agent, and I've just been seeing like the rapid
success on your social So I thought i'd reach out
(53:47):
and we ended up talking for probably seventy or eighty minutes.
Oh wow, Yeah, like I I love it.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
And she's like, I feel so bad. I feel so bad.
I feel so bad.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
I'm like, I like, I live for this stuff.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
I love it. Ah.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
So, So what he's saying, listeners is if you've got
a question about real estate, whether you're an agent or
a consumer column, He'll talk to you. He likes to
talk real estate. He'll be one of his thirty calls
for that day.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
My passion is coaching, mentoring, just sharing, sharing everything that
I've learned.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Well, I mean and I and again, I guess I
pun is intended. You are an open book and I mean,
you know you've written a book. You're willing to share,
you know, everything about your life. And I think that
will resonate with a lot of people. Most of us
have faced challenges, just not everybody's as comfortable talking about it.
And I think it's great that you are, and like
(54:44):
you said, and that you just want to pour into
other people. I mean, if you get to know Ben,
he wants to pour in to his agents, you know,
to his company, to the community, to the industry, you know,
to other people. So please do reach out to him.
If there's anything that he can do to help you,
or you have a question, please do reach out to him.
Ben Thinking, thank you for being a guest today. We
really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
That was fun, well it was. And for our listeners,
thank you for joining us. It's always great to have you.
We look forward to chatting with you again soon. We
hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe, write
a review, or rate the show, as it helps us
reach more people. You can also follow us on Facebook
and Instagram.
You are listening to the Remax real Estate Insights show
where you get real talk by real agents, brought to
you by Remax of Southeastern Michigan. Welcome to our Remax
real Estate Insights podcast. We're happy that you're joining us today.
Our show today on this episode is going to be
a little unique and we're going to be covering topics
(00:20):
that we've never addressed on our podcast before. Creating a
successful real estate career it's never necessarily easy, but doing
it more than once can take a lot of fortitude
and effort, even more so when you're having to battle
back from addiction and some other life challenges. Joining me
today for a very candid conversation is our special guest,
(00:42):
Benjamin Lang. Ben is the broker owner of a new
Remax office, Remax the collective agency in Auburn Hills, and
he is going to share his very personal story and
his experiences on how he has built a successful real
estate career more than once. So if you're out there
constit during real estate as a career, if you're already
in it and you're listening to this, I think you're
(01:03):
going to be able to get some golden nuggets from
what Ben has to share today. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Ben, Thank you, Thank you so much. I'm so glad
to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
We were thrilled to have you, and we're in these
beautiful new studios that iHeart has, and we appreciate your
making the drive down here. So I always find it
interesting to find out how people got into real estate,
and what I've said my commitment this year was every
guest on the show, I'm going to ask them, how
in the world did you land up in real estate
as your profession?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, great question. I bought my first house back in
two thousand and three. I was actually a hairstylist. Being
a hairstylist was my first career. When I bought my
first house, there was a hud house right next door,
and I thought it would be fun.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Oh naive right to you.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Since I just bought my first house, I thought it
would be great to buy the house next door and
quote unquote flip it for a profit, which I did
and luckily.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Especially for the first one when you didn't know what
you were doing, right, Oh great.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I was only twenty three years old at the time.
The next two years I went on to flip probably
another eight nine or ten.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
And then in.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Two thousand and five, my living girlfriend at the time,
she was graduating from MSU. I was living in Lansing
at the time, and she was graduating from MSU and
she was like, you know, I really want to move
back home, which was Macomb County. So I, you know,
(02:48):
and I hear this a lot from guys all over
the place. They'll pick up and move across the across
the country or across the state for a girl, which
is so I did it. If you know anything about
being you know, in the hair industry, it's very very
similar to real estate.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, you.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Have to build a clientele, true, before you really.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Make any money.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So I had already built a clientele in the hair
industry twice, and I just didn't want to do it again.
So I figured, Okay, new location, new fresh start, new opportunity,
new opportunity. I fell in love with real estate through investing,
why not, And so I went and got my license.
(03:38):
I started selling in maybe tail end of five beginning
of two thousand and six, and shortly thereafter.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
The market market kind of threw us a curve.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
All day, everything went to crap and you're.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Like, well, this seems like a great career choice.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
You know, I questioned myself back in two thousand and seven,
and you know I was. I was watching leaders in
the industry and people are agents that were selling, you know,
tens of millions exit the industry and go work at
the super dealership or art van or Yeah, and it
(04:20):
was it was actually frightening.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
But what saved me was.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I was driving in my car one day and I
heard a commercial on the radio for short sales. And
gentleman's name was Will Elias. He was you could not
turn on any radio station without hearing one of his
commercials to help facilitate short sales and get people out
(04:50):
of the hot water that they were under. Right, So
at that moment in time, I said to myself, you know,
he he has the monopoly here.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I could be the PEPSI to his coke.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Great analogy, and so at that time I decided to
jump in all the way and learn everything that I
could about short sales. So I went and got my
my CDPE, which is Certified Distressed Property Expert, my SFR,
which is Short Sale and Foreclosure Resource, and I talked
(05:27):
to attorneys, and I talked to title companies, and even
I was with Keller Williams at the time and Noley Williams.
If anyone remembers Noley Williams back in the day, he
he had a short sale course that I bought. And
so I recognized that there was an opportunity where most
(05:52):
agents were trying to do things the same way and
achieve the same results, right, and.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
But the market shifted and where the business was wasn't
the same old way.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
The market had shifted, and so I need I realized
that I needed to pivot quickly.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
And I think that's one thing that I'm I've.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Been really good at in my career is pivoting along
with the change with the market conditions, with new laws
and regulations changing the strategy. So I, you know, I
learned everything I could about short sales, and then I
went and I took my last ten thousand dollars and
(06:33):
I gave it to RIFF Radio station, and.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I was generous of you.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It was it was it was Mike and Orange, Yeah, Drew,
Mike and I continue to do that for the next
couple of years. In the next few years, uh, and
then it was David Chuck and ran really heavy ads
during the morning shows. And I'll tell you, like, my
(07:01):
business was growing at such a rapid pace, I couldn't
keep up. I had to start, not had to, but
I did. I started my own team.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, brought people out.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
You know, employees and agents back in two thousand and eleven,
really before teams were a thing, and so it was
quite quite the ride, and I'm just grateful for what
it was.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
And then fast forward, you.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Know, built the team and then opened my own brokerage
in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
So I mean that's I mean, you go back to
where it all started. You know, you're saying at twenty three,
you bought your first house, and hats off to you.
I mean, because not everybody at twenty three does that, right,
I mean, they just don't. I mean, not everybody at
that young age takes that financial leap. And so I
think that's a huge message to potential listeners out there.
(08:00):
You and I both know a great way to build
wealth is owning real estate. And you know, folks that
own home have a higher network than those that are renters.
And so that was a really good first step. And
you know, you kind of laughed when you said it,
and you know, well, the house next to me was
a hud and I thought I'd do that, but that
kind of set you down again. You took a risk,
but it paid off. And that seems to be kind
(08:20):
of a theme. It's like short sales. That was a
phrase nobody really knew before two thousand and five and six.
Certainly by seven people were getting what it was. But
I mean, that was not something the industry spent any
time learning anything about. But it was going to become
more business was going to be had, and like you said,
you took a risk, you pivoted, got some education, took
some money to advertise this as what you could do,
and it paid off for you.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, it really did.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I mean I was closing one year, I closed one
hundred and fifty transactions on my own before before the team.
Like I said, they were some of the best years
in my career, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, And on top.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Of that, it was so much more fulfilling because people
were really in a bad spot during those years And
while you know I helped sellers today, it was it
was much different on a much larger scale back then.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
It's interesting you say that because there are people that
you know that have been in the business long enough
to have gone through that phase, let's say two thousand
and six to twenty ten eleven. You know in there
where there were a lot of short sales and foreclosures.
And it's interesting they said, that was really I'm going
to put a little bit of words in your mouth
fulfilling to you. It was a different way of helping
people because i've you know, some people said, well, those
weren't happy closings. I want to get back to the
(09:37):
market where people were happy at the closing table. Well,
they may not have been happy, but there was certainly relief.
There was certainly you know, some other things that you
were delivering.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Back then one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
People were carrying a lot of burden, a lot of burden,
financial burden, emotional burden, you know, facing foreclosure, and to
help them avoid the actual foreclosure and salvage their credit somewhat.
I mean, obviously in a short sale it still takes
a hit, but to bring some kind of closure to
(10:08):
the situation was was really nice.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So everything was going. You kind of had this nice
trajectory going. You bought a house, you know, started to flip,
got into real estate, got your education, you know, growing
a team, open your own brokerage. Everything was going real well.
I mean it certainly seems like it was going great.
And you had a charm life and you did until
you didn't, right until until until you didn't, And you
(10:35):
had a couple of things happen that kind of took
your life in a different direction and you had to
kind of, you know, at some point in time, start over.
And you've wrote in a book a little bit about this.
It all Begins with You is a book that just
got published in the fall.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Correct, I did, I did, Yes, it was just published
in October.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And the subtitle line it is how to Rise above
the ads, overcome addiction, and live your dream life. And
I give you so much credit that you're willing to
go down this path and talk about this because so
many of us, and in the day and age of
social media, we all put on the shiny face, right.
All the pictures are the dream vacation, the perfect meal,
you know, the great sporting event I'm at, And not
(11:13):
many people are willing to kind of show real life,
but you are. And so you had built this great career,
you had kind of started, you know, you were you know,
kind of working your way through the real estate industry,
from being a buyer to being an agent, to running
a team, to owning a brokerage. You were just not
checking all the boxes. And then can you share what
happened in life and kind of how you dealt with it?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So in twenty fifteen, my sister committed
suicide and I had a really tough time dealing with
the emotions of that. So shortly thereafter it was right
into alcoholism and then shortly after that into drug addiction.
(11:56):
So twenty fifteen sixteen seven team were mostly spent getting
drunk and getting high most most every day, if not
every day.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And that I mean I, first of all, deepest sympathies
on the loss of your sister. You know, time can pass,
but it doesn't take away doesn't take away the loss.
So deepest sympathies on that. And so you had built
this great life and tragedy happens, and you very much
acknowledged this is this is what I did. Where at
what point did you did you kind of say all right,
(12:32):
this isn't what I want for my life and kind
of pick yourself, you know, back up, kind of what
was epiphany or what was it that kind of got
you to I want to say, snap out of it,
because that's way too easy of a phrase for what
you did.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, it's not to sound cliche, but I really had
to hit rock bottom within a six month time frame.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
I was.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Incarcerated in inpatient rehab for thirty three days. Divorce, bankruptcy,
car repossession, and homeless Uh so, most all the bad
things that you can ever think of, I went through
in a window six.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I was just gonna say me because they talk about
stressful things in life, right, you know, death, divorce, you know, moving,
I mean those, you know, we know those. But when
I listened to you rattle off all the things that
you went through, you know, homelessness, that's stressful. You know,
car repossession, rehab, you know all of those, and that
would be almost the cavalcade or the cascade of events
(13:36):
that happened could be enough to really bury somebody. I mean,
and just be that. Okay, you thought you were at
rock bottom, but then all of this happened. Now I'm
truly at rock bottom. And you've got some choices to make,
and they're in one door or what you know, one
choice could be very very negative. I mean, you may
not come back from.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, And that's what my book is about.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Honestly, I wrote the book because I just felt like
God was calling me to share my story and be
completely vulnerable about my story because I did. You only
had when when that happens, you only have two choices.
You either get back and dust off and move on,
(14:16):
or you succumb to what's happening and play the victim
card and maybe continue to drink and use drugs, or
even worse, quit on life. There's just but it's it's
within us to make that choice and to to wake
(14:37):
up every single morning and.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
And try and win the day to get our lives back.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So let's talk about winning the day. Because you you
had all these things happen to you in a relatively
short period of time, and at some point you said,
you know, I have it within me to make different choices.
I have it within me to dust myself off and
do something. How did you start to rebuild the real estate?
You know you you chose to stay in real estate.
How did you start to rebuild and get back?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, so I had to go back to the basics. Now,
keep in mind, I at some times was running a brokerage,
but mostly was drinking and drugging. So I didn't sell
for about three and a half years. So I lost
my sphere of.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Influence, which is so I mean, if anybody's and like
you said, building a client database, whether it's here, you know,
styling or real estate or anything else. Losing that database,
losing that sphere of influence, that's your book of business,
that's where repeat business and referral business comes from. That's
a big loss.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
It was a huge loss.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So in twenty eighteen, once I got I got right,
or got solber, I should say, I definitely wasn't right
and at that point, but at least I wasn't I
wasn't drinking and drugging at that point. Twenty eighteen, I
sold eight houses, which for me, I mean I was
(16:00):
used to selling you know, one hundred.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I just say, yeah, you mentioned at one point, yeah
in the short is that you were selling one hundred plus.
So yeah, right, eight's better than.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Zero, it is, it is better than zero, you know,
just just working. I was door knocking, I was cold calling.
I was really going back to basics, and it all
comes down the prospecting. So I was a prospecting machine.
So and then it just progressed, right, So eighteen was
(16:31):
eight houses, and then I think nineteen was twenty three
or twenty four houses, and then it was forty houses
and got up to I think twenty twenty three. I
sold seventy two houses last year almost sixty houses. So
it was it was having the patients. It was you know,
(16:56):
it requires a lot of faith. It requires a lot
of faith because you know, people will talk about consistency
and the habits and the actions, but you know, you
don't see the results.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
You don't see checks for quite a while.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
No, I mean, you can make a lot of phone
calls and you're not getting a check on Friday for
the all the you know, hundreds or dozens of phone
calls that you made.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, you're usually not seeing the results of your activities
for at least ninety days, ninety days minimum, right, so
you really have to wake up every day. And I
always make the analogy it's like a farmer, right, they
plant their seedlings, and they nurture those seedlings and water
(17:46):
them and make sure that you know, insects and birds
aren't destroying and they're out there every day working on
these a future crop, and they can't see those those
sprouts else, depending on what it is, for maybe sometimes months. Right,
So they have to have this faith that if they
(18:07):
go out there every day and pour into those crops,
that it's going it's going to come up and those
seedlings are going to sprout and turn into what the
farmer's intent is.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It's like, yeah, if I continue to do all the
right things, Like but you said, there's a big bit
of faith in there, I can't see the magic happening
under the soil. If you're a farmer, and if you're
ben making phone calls, I mean, you could make a
dozen calls in a day. It doesn't mean somebody's ready
to sell a house somebody, but you know, it's a
numbers game. If I keep doing this every day, I
get up and I do the right things. I talk
to people, I prospect, I'd let them know I'm there
(18:43):
to help them if they have a real estate need.
At some point in time. I'm going to get a
yes at some point in time. But to stick with it,
it does require fortitude, faith, and a lot of other things.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
It really does.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And I'll you know, share something else. It was as
part of my sobriety journey. I was trying to make
up for all the bad things that I had done.
So I was really and still am just trying to
provide people with as much value and empathy and compassion.
(19:17):
But in the beginning of my sobriety journey, I was
taking it to an extreme where, you know, anyone that
I could help because I was I was trying to
really not a race, but definitely make up you know,
I wasn't a good person during my addiction. And so
I'm also a true believer that it's not just the
(19:39):
actions as far as like prospecting and things like that,
but it's also pouring into other people and helping where
you can, and you know, kind of making deposits in
the bank with the universe or whatever you believe in.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Well, and and like you said, you know out of
you know, I have not traveled the path that you have.
But you know, obviously, like you said, you know and
I know, sobriety is a journey. And you're saying, you know,
try to try to help others where you could. You
can't erase maybe things that were said and done in
the past, but I can see somebody else who's struggling
and help them, And that kind of goes back into
you know, you've got such fulfillment back in the short
(20:20):
sailing foreclosures days, you know, helping people. You're doing the
same thing now, just in a different way. It's not
like in one little avenue of effort. It's like I
see people struggling, I'm going to help them, and I do.
I tend to agree. You put good things out there.
In time, it comes back, it comes back to you.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
It does. It does, absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Given that you so you started kind of with the basics,
door knocking, prospecting, you know, things of that nature, and
it kind of, you know, it got you back on
you know tracks. So given what you've been through, because
you've started a real estate career at least twice, I mean,
where you've kind of built it from from nothing to
something significant, what advice would you have if there's somebody
out there listening that either is newly licensed or thinking
(21:00):
of getting into real estate this year, and you know,
what advice would you give to somebody on what they
should be thinking about, what they need to consider doing
to be successful.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, someone new to the industry. I'm going to share
I'm actually going to share like four things. Number one
I had to learn this the hard way. Successes is rented,
it's not owned. I thought that I had reached the
pinnacle of success and it was all stripped away from me.
(21:33):
So you don't get to the destination and then it's yours.
We're not entitled to what we've earned thus far. We
have to continue to earn it every single day.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I mean, great advice, I mean, and I think you
can see that come through. It's very personal in the
story that you're telling, but I think you can see
that even in other things. I mean, let's take sports
for example. We're in the height of football playoff season
as we're recording this. Just because you've got a good
team on paper doesn't mean you don't go play the game.
And just because you're supposed to win on paper doesn't
(22:06):
mean you have to show up and actually everybody do
their job on game day to make this happen. Nobody
can you, And I get I think it is easy
for people to say, well, I worked hard for this
success and now that I'm here, like Tuda, you know
I'm here forever. And that isn't the way it works.
You still have to get up every day and do
the right things and be consistent and do what it
got to take you there, or you'll slip back real quickly.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
One hundred percent. I mean, I'll give another example too.
I mean, I'm nearly a twenty year veteran in this industry.
I've sold over a thousand houses in my career, and
I role play.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
With my agents.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I have a role play partner every morning Monday through Friday,
fifteen minutes we're role playing for prospecting. It's really important
that number one, Once you think that you have everything
figured out, that's the day you're gonna lose. Once you
(23:04):
think you have it all figured out, the day you're
gonna lose.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Life's gonna throw something at you to teach you a
humbling lesson, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Number Two, I think there's so much importance to being
in the right rooms, and so I always want to
be the least intelligent person in the room. I always
want to be the least successful person in the room.
I make it a point to surround myself with people
(23:35):
who possess the traits or the level of success or
the qualities that I'm going that I want to achieve.
Because we we inherently we rub off on each other,
right it's like one bad apple can ruin the you know.
(23:57):
So it's really important to put yourself in the right
place rooms and surround yourself with the right people.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
And I love the fit that and I think a
lot of successful people, when you talk to them, will
echo somewhat of what you just said. As far as
I want to surround my possible with people that know
more than I do. If you're if you don't want
yes people around you, Oh you're the greatest, I mean,
always nice to hear, but realistically to continue to move forward, Yeah,
you want people that understand different aspects of the business
(24:25):
or you know, anything that you're involved with, so you
can soak up that knowledge. I think that's great, great advice,
and I again I think a lot of successful people
you will get that theme that you hear from them.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Going back to our earlier question, I do want to
share those I said I had four things. The second
thing is study everything that you possibly can about human behavior.
My degree is in psychology and I totally geek out
on the psychology of sales, and.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I've spent a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Of time studying human behavior and instead of scripts, I'm
more into the nuances in how to persuade people and
the psychology of persuasion. So I would study the psychology
the psychology of persuasion or human behavior as much as
(25:22):
humanly possible. You know, today we have YouTube and just
so many different free ways to learn and educate yourself.
And then I would also take as much time to
learn about myself and who I am, and what my
(25:42):
value system is and what I'm really gunning for in
the future. I think it's really important because for me,
I'm a listing agent. You know, ninety eight percent of
my sales every year are listings the two person and
our buyers. It really takes confidence to be a strong
(26:05):
listing agent, and and a large part of that confidence
is knowing exactly who you are, what your value system is,
what you what you believe in, what you're willing to
fight for. It's really really important. And then I also
think that you know, learning about self discipline and really
(26:27):
focusing on you know, what books can I read to
to get better at self discipline, because your success is
really going to be related to those things, right, So
it's going to be related to persuasion your self discipline.
I think those are two of the key factors that
are going to make a very successful real estate agent.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Absolutely, And I think you're right. People understanding humans, how
they think, how they react, you know, and things of
that nature and being able to tap into that and
and maybe that we're not real estate agents or many
psychiatrists or psychologists out there. But the more that you
can understand that nuance and guide people through that, the
(27:11):
more successful I think you're going you're going to be.
And reading it. I mean, I'm a big believer. I
always have, you know, typically I have a couple of
books going you know, at a time, you know, and
stuff like that. And you know, of course you can always,
you know, add bens to your list. It all be
it all begins with you. But like you said, there's
so many opportunities with YouTube and the social platforms, and
I mean, nowadays there's no excuse to not be learning.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I mean, I'm listening to Audible every time I'm in
my car. Yeah, listening to Audible. And so I have
a couple of books that I listen to every single year.
One is how to How to Win Friends and Influence
People Carnegie yep, a.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Classic, Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
The other one is Emotional Intelligence, Okay, and they have
two point zero out there. So that was actually my
fourth thing is always be growing, Always be growing, never
be stagnant, Never get caught on that treadmill.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Personal growth.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I forget who said it, but a quote that I
always relate to is work harder on yourself than you
do at your job.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Well, and because you, I mean especially in real estate,
I mean you are a big you know, you are
a big part of the of the equation. You the
person how you show up and that's great. I mean
that is great advice. And you know, it was different
advice than what they what somebody that might be listening
would hear from somebody else on how to be successful.
They'd get to the well, you got to hold open houses,
(28:40):
or you have the door knock, or you have to
do this. Then there's a lot of different avenues that niches.
If you will that you can be successful in real estate.
It doesn't make one better, you know, just what appeals
to people. I like that you went in a completely
different direction and it was all you know, I'm pointing
to my head and my temples. It's all you know
up here. Work on yourself, you know, work on what
you know knowledge, you know that you can bring to
(29:01):
the table how to interact with humans always be growing
and learning. And it was interesting because you know, I'm
going to pull back to you know, back in the two, seven, eight, nine,
ten eleven, you know, when the market really pivoted to
short sales and foreclosures like we had never seen before
twenty twenty four. I mean, it was a different year
in real estate. We had the nar settlement and kind
(29:24):
of all this noise around settlements and how was this
going to change? How you know, agents communicated with buyers
and or sellers and the relationship with everybody just out
of curiosity. Did you have a lot of your agents
concerned about that? How did you lead your people through that?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, agents were definitely concerned. You know, we we just
we give our agents the tools to succeed, so, you know,
I it really didn't change much. In my opinion, we
should have always been getting a buyer broker agreement signed
(30:01):
before we show show to house, right, in my opinion,
it's the professional thing to do. We don't get paid
until we until we.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Earn our commission at the end of the road.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
So I've always referred to throughout my career the exclusive
buyer agency agreement as a loyalty agreement with clients, and
it's it's I'm loyal to you, you're loyal to me,
and now we're we're supporting each other's best interests. I
think people that agency and fiduciary responsibilities should have been
(30:38):
explained to buyers before jumping in a car and carting
them all over the place. So I think in that
respect that was needed for our industry.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I think that.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
We need to portray ourselves as realtors or real estate
agents on a on a more professional level level, like
such as a doctor an attorney. I mean, we can
cert we can make the same income as an attorney,
but our level of entry is is forty hours in
(31:12):
a state test.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
It doesn't really jive for me.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
So I think it's up to us to to kind
of get rid of that that persona that you know,
we are maybe like used car salesmen, and that's how
a lot of consumers see us.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
And yeah, sadly, over the years, the industry hasn't ranked high,
you know, on professions that consumers tend to trust. Yet
most everybody that buys yoursell a home does use the
services you know of an agent because they don't you know,
they're not necessarily good at negotiating. They don't know, you know,
they don't have the means to market a home the
way it needs to be marketed. And I've always thought
(31:51):
that there's an opportunity for there, because I think most
people in this industry are in for the right reasons
and they really do want to help people, and yet
to have transparency to you know, fully explain you know,
the process and the relationships and things of that nature.
I agree, and I think a lot of good agents
were doing it well before you know, all of the
lawsuits and stuff that happened, you know, last year. The
(32:14):
market over the last few years, not so much twenty
twenty one, but as we started to get into twenty
two twenty three, interest rates started to tick up. A
market that already didn't have enough inventory gut even tighter.
It's been interesting, you know, to kind of see you
still have agents having best years ever, you know, I
mean still find in a way to do business, having
their best year ever. And then you have some others,
(32:35):
you know, veterans that business has maybe fallen a little bit.
I know, you gave advice to to folks that might
be new in the industry, and maybe the advice would
be the exact same. But if you have somebody that's
listening out there that's been an agent, you know they're
not They're a veteran at that, they've been around a while,
but business has kind of fallen off a little bit.
They don't want to get out, they want to stay in.
What advice would you have for somebody like.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
That, Uh yeah, work harder.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, don't sit there and wait for it to come
to you, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I mean, let's let's get real.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
You know, twenty eighteen, nineteen, twenty twenty one, you know
the business was easy. You know, you could throw a
stone and get a client. That started to turn in
twenty two and the agents that are that are selling
more are working harder, they're they're pivoting, they're changing their strategy.
(33:27):
And I'm not saying work more hours. I'm just I'm
just saying, like, it's get down to the basics. It's
it's all going to come down to prospecting. My philosophy
is this, if you speak to thirty consumers every single
week and have a conversation that is longer than two
(33:51):
minutes about buying or selling real estate, there's no way
that you can lose.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
So I heard a couple of numbers there, thirty conversations
more than two minutes. And if you do that consistently.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Week in and week out, yeah, the business is there,
you'll win.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, the business. The business is there. We're talking with
Ben Laying. He is the broker owner of Remax, the
collective agency in Auburn Hills, and you are now back
to having the you know, the broker hat on. Literally
right now he has a Remax hat on, but I
mean the you know, the broker owner hat, which means
you are now guiding agents that are part of your company.
(34:30):
And I know that you're big into education, you know,
talk to me about some of the things that you
are doing, you know, with your agents to help them
win and do the right things.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
So, first and foremost, I wrote an e book called
Listing Domination, and I've been teaching it on stages across
the country for the last four years or so with
different organizations Club Wealth, National Association of Real Estate Brokers.
So I'm taking you know, I think personally that listening
(35:05):
agents are going to win.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Well.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Listings are king, right, I mean, in our industry, there's
kind of always been. I mean, you're somewhat in control
if you if you could secure listings, you're in control
because buyers will come to you. Your buyers agents will
bring business to you.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Listening, I mean, listenings are leverage. You you get free leads,
you're the dollar per hour ratio is much greater than
working with buyers. There's just so many advantages to being
a strong listing agent. So I'm really uh, everyone that's
that's that's with us now. I'm helping them to transition
(35:39):
their business from uh only buyer business and and start
getting into the listing game as well. And beyond that,
you know, I uh, I talk a lot about mindset
with my agents and because a lot of times we
can fix.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
We can fix it.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Maybe an agent that's not performing at their highest level
nine times out of ten, it's going to come down
the mindset and in the commitments that they've made to themselves.
In fact, two days ago Tuesday, I had a goal
setting workshop with all of my agents, and I created
(36:25):
worksheets and we all sat in a room together and
really broke down those goals, which I hate to refer
to goals as goals. I'd rather say commitments. But we
really took those commitments and broke them down, you know,
the end of year commitment, and broke down, Okay, what
do I need to do quarterly? What do I need
(36:46):
to do monthly? What do I need to do weekly?
What I need to do daily? And created a roadmap
for success because I think a lot of a lot
of agents are going blindly right, and it's that they're
missing their lighthouse or their GPS or navigation system. We
have to know where we're going and how we're going
(37:09):
to get there.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
And I do love what you just said about commitment
versus goal, because the goal does sound kind of like
this is something I kind of want. You know, you're
asking me for an idea and I'm going to throw
a number or a result or something at you. Commitment
to me is hard that I am going to do this.
It's not an if, it's not a wish, it's not
a desire out there Like this, commitment to me is
(37:32):
a much stronger word. I like that you use that
with them.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, and also I want to know you know, okay,
you know I want to lose thirty pounds, Well, why
what would that do for your life? I want to
go like seven levels deep on why you want what
you want, because I want you to go seven levels
deep with it and really figure out, you know, why
(37:56):
that's so important to you. I want to make one
hundred grand, Okay, great, Why what will that do for you?
What will that do for your family?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Because that makes it real. I mean I think we
both know, because I mean the example that you gave
is very common in the real estate industry. Right, everybody
wants to make a one hundred grand. I mean, you're
gonna throw a number out there. Nobody says ninety five,
Nobody says one ten. Everybody wants a hundred, Right, That's
kind of like the benchmark. For whatever reason, that's become
the industry answer. But I like what you're saying is
(38:29):
what does that do for you?
Speaker 3 (38:30):
You know?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
And then it can start to get into depending on
the person. While it might be the family vacation that
they can now take, it might be the second home
they can I mean, everybody has reasons behind it. But
it's nice to, like you said, go the seven layers deep,
because now this becomes really personal. I'm super focused on
what I want to do because now it means something.
It's not a number. On a sheet of paper, and
(38:52):
we need that.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I mean, if we're going to get hung up, listen,
I'm if I'm asking them to have six conversations every
day to get their thirty conversation, they're probably going to
get hung up on three to five times. They're probably
going to get cursed out maybe once a day or
at least twice a week. So they have to have
that deep rooted.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Why yes, strong enough to get to get passed and
say okay, that was I got mine for the week,
you know, next, and pick it very back up again. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
And we're also you know, my vision is to really
get into wealth creation because of my investment backgrounds. You know,
I really want to take everyone that's with our company
and if we're if we're in the the the industry
and we're able to find maybe those below market value properties,
(39:47):
we should be buying them.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
I've heard more than one, you know, industry speaker say that.
I mean, we've got any active agent who's in the market,
you know, knows what's coming on the market, what's going on,
should be able to see opportunity when they're there. And
I love that. So you're focusing on listing domination you know,
getting your agents to become you know, comfortable, confident and
going that route. You're working on mindset, you're working on
(40:10):
commitment setting, we won't call it goal setting. And uh
in the vision to kind of for where you want
to kind of even take this even a step further.
Is wealth creation in real estate? I think I said it,
you know a little bit early in this. We know
that being involved in real estate as far as owning
it is a great wealth creator, you know, for you immediately,
but it tends to also be for generations to come.
(40:32):
I mean you can if maybe somebody you're the first
to own a home in your family, you are starting
a new trend, you know, for you know, for your family,
for generations to come. Probably.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
And it's not only that, but right now I'm into
I'm on a new a new topic Okay that really
interests me, which is limiting my tax liability.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Well, well can be back in April. We'll talk about that.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
So it takes you so you know, that's also part
of my vision. It's wealth creation, it's limiting tax liability.
It's being a true business owner and being focused on
profit instead of maybe just selling houses.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Well, and I think that whether you're have a real
estate licenser, you have some other profession, you know, whatever
that may be. I think the one thing that at
least I mean, it's been a while since I've been
in high school or college, but I mean I feel
like you can get through high school and college and
not really have a lot in the way of life skills, right,
I mean skills that you really should have to understand
how to financially manage your life. And I think anything
(41:34):
that you can do to help other people, like you said,
wealth creation, you know, understanding you know, I'm not saying
to not pay taxes. No, I'm not saying it at all.
But I mean there's a tax code. I mean, if
we understood it better, we could probably take better advantage tons.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Of tax codes.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Because I've been studying the past three weeks or so,
and there's tons of tax codes. I mean, I'm I'm
not advocating not paying your taxes by any means at all.
I'm just saying there's a lot of codes that work
in our favor and that we're not taking advantage of.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
No.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I mean, and I guess God blessed turbo tax and
you know, the H and R blocks that allow people
to do it on their own. But let's be honest,
we're not You're not an expert at this, and I wouldn't,
you know, do my own surgery. I mean it's like,
I mean, just because you can do it yourself and
there's an app for that, as they say, doesn't necessarily
mean you're you're being best served. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
I think we just you know, as an agent, we
need to look at ourselves as an entrepreneur. I don't
know if enough agents really consider themselves an entrepreneur and
are really focused on profit and metrics and tax code
and no.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Not because to some degree, I mean, I think a
lot of people got into this they want they wanted
to be in business for them. They wanted the freedom
and the flexibility and the things that a career in
this can bring. But not a lot necessarily came with
that skill set or from the beginning I'm going to
run this like a business.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
And I certainly at the beginning of my career I did.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
They're not plating fingers.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
I'm not playing fingers at all.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
I'm just saying, like I want for the agents that
work for me, I want them to be equipped with
the knowledge to be a true entrepreneur and be focused
on their their metrics and their profit and loss and
there and tax code and wealth creation.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
I just think there's so much more to this.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Well, I think that, I mean, and obviously some I mean,
this is going to resonate with a lot of folks
out there. You've had some nice growth, you know, with
your office in the very early stages. There's no reason
to believe that's going to stop anytime soon. And when
you can provide you know, all of that, you know,
for your for the people that choose to affiliate with you,
they're getting so much more than you know, a place
(43:52):
to hang a license. And in our industry right now,
there's no shortage of companies that are willing to hang
a license for very little in return. And you get
what you pay for, right, I mean, that's the way
I look at You get I mean, and not just financially,
I mean, you just get it. I mean, if somebody's
basically saying, come here and we're going to leave you
alone and do your own thing, trust trust them when
they say that they're being very honest. You're not going
(44:12):
to get any support and coming to an office like yours,
where You're not only helping them with their the skill
set in the mindset to do their profession list and
sell real estate, help consumers buy and sell properties. You're
helping them become better business people. And that's invaluable. And
I hope that people can see what you're offering and
(44:33):
then like where your mind is going. And you're already,
like you know, in the chess game, a couple of
steps ahead doing this right now. But I see where
I'm going and where I can take them.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Yeah, I want to change lives on a on a
very profound level.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
That's my goal commitment. That's my commitment.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, a good call out, that's your commitment.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
As we headed to twenty twenty or you know, we're
kind of on the early the doorstep of twenty twenty
five was going to just pick your brain real lightly.
I guess on kind of a couple of things. What
do you see for the industry as a whole? Interest
rates are likely going to stay I think in the
six is all years. How do you think this year
is going to be as far as real estate sales?
Do you think more inventory is going to become available?
Kind of what are what are you kind of counseling
(45:17):
your agents that they should expect this year from a
market perspective.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Yeah, I'm very optimistic about this year. In fact, I
know that a lot of agents have exited the industry
over the last two years or at least put their
license in holding, So I believe that the competition is
going to be.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Less this year.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
I believe that the transaction count will be much greater.
And I'll tell you why a couple of reasons.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
I do think that.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
If and when our rate hits a five point, it's
like a lot of a lot of people because the
market is bottlenecked right now because nobody wants to leave
their two and a half or their three percent that
they that they got during the pandemic. So everyone's been
pulling back and holding back and at the expense of,
(46:18):
you know, their daily living situation.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
I agree, yeah, right, yeah, And they're putting up with
a house that's too big or too small, or.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Something too small, and they could have like created a
much better environment for themselves and then and their family
a long time ago. But people have been waiting for
the market to come down, and the rates that come down, well,
rates are never going to be at three percent right.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
I mean, I completely agree, and if they are, something
has happened on a global scale that none of us
see coming.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
If they go down to two and a half or
three percent, it means something that happened in our world
that is really really bad. So we don't want them
to be two and a half.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
No, no, no, I'm perfectly fine with them. Yeah, not going
ye back there. And I think, and I'm hoping that
rates have now been at this rate for a little bit,
people are understanding this is where they are. If you
keep waiting for something to go back to what it was,
I completely agree with you. I don't see it going there.
My first house it was eight point seven something when
I bought. I mean, since it is not bad in
(47:22):
the big picture.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Oh three, I think I was at seven point five. Yeah,
you know three, we're normal therese are normal rates. Right,
But here's what I think. I think, Uh, even if
the rates don't go down to the five point nine
ninety nine, but I really hope that they do, because
I think that would that would release that bottleneck that's
that we currently have. But what I what I mainly
(47:43):
believe is that well number one, the millennial generation.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
They still.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Are pretty the percentage, they're pretty still low as far
as percentage of home as yes, right, And so I
think the millennials are going to have to pick it up,
and then the gen xers they're all going to be
coming into like their twenty six, twenty seven, twenty nine,
you know, engagements and babies.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
And moving out of mom and dad's house.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
We have a major shortage of housing for these generations
that are coming into home buying. It's a definite problem.
So I don't see values going anywhere for a long time.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
No, And that's kind of what I've tried to say,
if you know, if if it comes up in any
conversations that I'm having, is you know, first of all,
interest rates aren't going back. This is worth and I agree,
I think psychologically if the first number started with the five, yeah,
people be jumping off the fence like crazy. Yeah, you know,
I completely completely agree with that. But again, demand exceeds supply,
(48:49):
and while we may while pricing increases might moderate a
little bit, they might not bump up as high and
as quickly as they have in the last few years.
That trajectory, I believe is still upward. So while you're
sitting there waiting for the interest rates to come down,
the cost to buy that house is going to continue
to go up.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
I mean think about the people that you know in
twenty twenty two when the rates was worth seven and
they put it on the back burner that that let's
say it was a three hundred thousand dollars house. The
house is probably forty or fifty thousand dollars higher now. Yep, right,
So they missed the boat there. But I think this
(49:27):
is the year that people finally say to themselves and
come to terms with the rate is what it is.
It's normal. It's the new normal.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
The values are not going to decline anytime soon. I'm
sick of my current living situation.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
I'm gone on with bread. Yeah, that's what I think. Personally.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
I think there's a large population that's finally going to
have that mindset.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
And I mean it would be nice because the market
needs some inventory, you know for sure, And I tend
to agree you can, you can put up with a
lot of things for a short period of time, but
when you when the house no longer meets your needs
and you're going and as I kind of look at it,
at least year three of this. I mean if you
kind of put everything on pause when interest rates start
going up. Is if I'm older, you know, and I
(50:17):
have a house like a colonial with stairs, At what
point is this becoming too much? And I am hopeful
that yes, And especially as we start to roll into
the spring season, you know, historically a little busier time
of the year, we'll see some more inventory coming. So
with that, how do agents prepare? I mean, assuming that
you're right and I don't disagree with you, that you
know this year will be a better year. How you
(50:38):
kind of said it before ninety days? You know what
you do today? If that's what happens ninety days from now, well,
ninety days will be in spring. So what do agents
need to do so they can capitalize on this business
that's coming?
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (50:48):
Really?
Speaker 2 (50:49):
You know, I tell my agents make sure that you're
you're looking at real estate news and mortgage news first
thing before you start prospecting, so that you can share
that with everyone that you're talking with for that day.
You know, you position yourself as the authority you're educating people.
I think what I would say to agents is stop
(51:11):
letting the media educate our clients.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
You be the educator.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
That's great advice. That's great advice. That's in part what
they're paying for, and you're delivering value then too. Anybody
can read a headline, and that's a lot what a
lot of people do, right, read the headlines. They don't
may not go real deep into the story. But a
consumer isn't in it every day. And now you can
take that and interpret that and explain what that means,
you know, to them. Absolutely, I agree with you wholeheartedly
(51:38):
on that.
Speaker 3 (51:39):
It's our responsibility. Yeah, this is our responsibility.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
And again show them that, show them the value that
you can bring to the table. You're you're more than
opening the door. I mean, don't let that be the perception,
right you know of our industry. Oh there they open
doors for me. No, you're you're much deeper than that.
So we've been talking with Ben Laying, the broker owner
of Remax, the collective agency, and Ben kind of wrapping
it up here today. You were very kind to share
(52:05):
with us your story, very kind of shared that it
wasn't a straight line trajectory. You took the scenic route
a couple of a couple of times, but you've created
you know, a great second time. You know, career in
real estate and sharing that with agents. If somebody was
interested in getting the book, it all begins with you.
How can they do that?
Speaker 3 (52:26):
It all begins with you? Dot com.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
It's also on Amazon, It's on Audible, Kindle, an anywhere
you can find any other book.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
All right, well? Great? And then secondly, maybe if somebody
out there is listening and they want to reach out
to you directly, either as an agent or a consumer
with real estate needs, how would they get in touch
with you?
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, call me on my cell phone. Honestly, it's two
four eight eight three five two three four zero.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Give that number one more time.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah, two four eight eight three five two three four zero.
Do I have time for a story?
Speaker 1 (53:04):
You absolutely do?
Speaker 3 (53:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
So I used to coach agents for an organization called
Club Wealth. I think it was three or four years ago.
I had an agent in Colorado. Okay, Colorado. She texted
me three days ago and she's like, this is so weird.
(53:26):
I saw you speak at at a Club Wealth event
and I kept your number and it's been like three years.
She's like, I have a brokerage, but I only have
one agent, and I've just been seeing like the rapid
success on your social So I thought i'd reach out
(53:47):
and we ended up talking for probably seventy or eighty minutes.
Oh wow, Yeah, like I I love it.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
And she's like, I feel so bad. I feel so bad.
I feel so bad.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
I'm like, I like, I live for this stuff.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
I love it. Ah.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
So, So what he's saying, listeners is if you've got
a question about real estate, whether you're an agent or
a consumer column, He'll talk to you. He likes to
talk real estate. He'll be one of his thirty calls
for that day.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
My passion is coaching, mentoring, just sharing, sharing everything that
I've learned.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Well, I mean and I and again, I guess I
pun is intended. You are an open book and I mean,
you know you've written a book. You're willing to share,
you know, everything about your life. And I think that
will resonate with a lot of people. Most of us
have faced challenges, just not everybody's as comfortable talking about it.
And I think it's great that you are, and like
(54:44):
you said, and that you just want to pour into
other people. I mean, if you get to know Ben,
he wants to pour in to his agents, you know,
to his company, to the community, to the industry, you know,
to other people. So please do reach out to him.
If there's anything that he can do to help you,
or you have a question, please do reach out to him.
Ben Thinking, thank you for being a guest today. We
really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
That was fun, well it was. And for our listeners,
thank you for joining us. It's always great to have you.
We look forward to chatting with you again soon. We
hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe, write
a review, or rate the show, as it helps us
reach more people. You can also follow us on Facebook
and Instagram.
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