July 30, 2024 • 19 mins
Things get personal in this episode. James is sharing his journey with overwhelm and self-doubt, and lessons learned that have shaped his business and life.
Join us as we discuss:
Benji: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benji-block/
James: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamescarbary/
Join us as we discuss:
- The importance of community in business and life
- The hardships of working with family and friends
- How to overcome self-doubt and find healing
Benji: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benji-block/
James: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamescarbary/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This one time, I distinctly remember thinking, I think the
world might be better without me in it.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I want to ask you a pretty personal question in
this episode, and I want to ask you to talk
through a time where you didn't believe in yourself and
just we'll process this kind of together over the next
few minutes. Therapy session therapy session on B to B
growth to throw someone under the bus right off the top.
Emily on our team, she's standing in the other room
(00:33):
right now, leads all of our creatives.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
She's like, you know, it'd be really cool.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You and James are like in person, maybe you should
give vulnerable, you know, like, let's just talk about our
mental like when it comes to business, when it comes
to life, Like, what's a time where we maybe we
were overthinking? We were just like, man, I don't know
if I can do this, And so I'm going to
put you on the hot seat right from the start
(00:58):
of this episode and just go, hey, tell me a
time that for you you were like, man, I don't know,
I don't know about this, So kick us off.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So it was twenty nineteen, early in the year twenty nineteen.
I remember I was sitting on my couch. It was
late at night, Lisa was already in bed, and I
very first time I'd a thought like this had ever
crossed my mind, But I legitimately was sitting on the
couch wondering like, is the world going to be a
(01:29):
better place if I'm not in it tomorrow? And legitimately
for the I mean, this is not something I'm fortunate that,
this is not something that I've felt a lot in
my life, ever in my life, but this one time,
I distinctly remember thinking, I think the world might be
better without me.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
In it tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
But what had led up to that? You know, in
the early years of business, I think it's natural to
include people in the business, bring you into the business
that you're close with, that you trust, friends, family, And
we certainly did that and worked with a lot of
people that we were close with some people. A couple
(02:11):
of people were in this room today that you know,
close friends that got brought into the business. And for
the folks in the room today, obviously it worked out,
or it has worked out today, but there's been a
lot of situations where it hasn't worked out. And in
early twenty nineteen were coming off the heels of not
(02:33):
one but two people that Lisa and I were both
very very close with that we brought into the business
and for you know, a myriad of reasons, a lot
being my own fault, my own immaturity and leadership and
not knowing how to navigate situations well and not knowing
how to communicate well. And you know, things went south
(02:58):
in both of those for both of those relationships, and
and it was directly related to those people getting brought
into the business, and and because they happened back to back,
so it was like this thing happened, and then a
few months later, something else happened with somebody else we
(03:19):
were very close with, and it was just created this
season in Lisa and I's marriage that was so tumultuous
because we we we cared for these people so much,
and and the situation was muddy. I mean, it was
(03:40):
It was very easy for Lisa to understand Lisa's not
involved in the business and never has been involved in
the business, but it was very easy for her to
empathize and understand their perspective and why they would be
so upset with me. And I think it created a
lot of Yeah, I created a lot of resentment on
(04:02):
my parts. Why don't you understand my perspective. Reality is
she did understand my perspective, she just also understood their perspective.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
When did Sweetfish start?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Twenty fifty so you're like four years in that this
is I know your spirit.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I don't know this story, but I know your spirit.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
You're like very much entrepreneur optimists, like we're going to
figure this out, ideas ideas, like what's the next thing.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Is this one of.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Those first times in starting Sweetfish where you're like this
has ripple effects like this like kind of like a
wake up moment where you're like, man, it's affecting relationships,
my marriage, like business, and this is all kind of
flooding together. This is one of the first times where
it was like felt that serious.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Uh yeah, I mean the first one of these says
two different relationships back to back. The first one was
the first time it really hit home and it impacted
our marriage. It impacted yep, things way outside the business.
And I think there's this natural response when something like
(05:04):
that happens that you go, Okay, this happened because you know, friends, family,
and business collided. So I'm just never going to let
that happen again. Like I just will keep friends and
family a thousand miles apart from business, and that that
was certainly my mindset for for a while. But then
(05:27):
you look at Jeremy right or CEOs running the day
to day of Sweetfish today. I was the best man
in his wedding.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So this stuff is it's nuanced, it's it's situational, it's
something like it's it's not science, it's it's art.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And so it's not I feel like it with content
today you have to take a stand. And you had
this it's black or it's white, and in this particular situation,
it's not that way. And those in those those relationships breaking,
they broke for a myriad of reasons outside of the
(06:09):
fact that they were were we were friends, or we
were family before they joined the business.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
If you put yourself in the shoes of that, I
were like, I just I don't know if I trust myself.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I don't know if I believe in myself right now?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Is is your initial reaction like had you built up
the internal like like you were cool to reach out
for help or was it was there something in you
that was like my pride doesn't want me to tell
someone that this is what I'm thinking right now.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, I don't. I Fortunately, I don't think there was,
because I think I started talking to somebody about it,
like the next day. I think I probably talked to
Lisa about it the very next day, uh, and then
was talking to other people about it.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It must have been within within days. I mean it
was a it was a very short.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Amount of time.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And there's something too, I mean, growing up in the church,
you just you hear this, like, you know, the devil
wants to work in the dark, like sin sin. We
keep sin in the dark because as soon as light
exposes it, it's gone, Like it's something can't something is
(07:20):
no longer in the dark as soon as light touches it. Yep.
And so this idea of like, Okay, if I keep
this to myself, if I keep it bottled up, that's
that's not going to do anything but but damage my heart,
my soul, my spirit. And so I kind of I
(07:41):
don't want to say I knew it instinctively, but i'd
just been you hear this message.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
It's interesting though, because both of us have a lot
of church experience, and I would say I think there's
plenty of people who have a church background when and
they've seen the power of community, but it still takes
a long time to have some of these like conversations
where it's like this is what's going on inside, I'm
going to actually bring this to people. So it's cool
to hear you say that was one of your first steps.
(08:08):
I think for a lot of people in business and
in life, it's like, how do I show that I'm
stronger than I actually am? Yep, and kind of grip
my teeth through this and hope that the season passes
and then we're just, you know, onto the next. But
I feel like that piece of okay in business and
in life right now, I don't know that I trust
or believe in myself, and I don't know like how
(08:29):
I get through this. I literally on the airplane today,
I'm like taking notes about my own situations that I
found myself in and I literally was like joking and
said like get bye with little help from my friends,
because I'm like, I don't know, like community is such
a key part to it. And when you feel like
that level of loneliness, me too have sat in that
seat right It's like I don't trust myself, don't believe
(08:50):
in myself right now. Really hard to admit it to
my wife. Maybe different than your situation, but I resonate
with that, and I feel like community becomes like this
ultra important. Who can I tell this to and how
do we process together with someone that's not in the
same space that I'm in right now, Because that's the
other thing that can happen. You could be vulnerable with
someone that's as depressed or anxious or whatever is you,
(09:12):
and it's like you go in a downward spiral together
and the energy is just all off. So to find
someone that you can like can push back on you
in the right ways and like bring the best out
of you and just be there with you to like, hey,
I see you and like you're fully known, fully loved.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, that's what everybody needs. I feel like, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
The other thing too that I think you know, er,
I've mistakes I've made in the pursuit of other people
and bringing other people into hard situations, particular where it's
conflict between me and another person. It's very easy to
(09:52):
not represent the other person's perspective well as you're kind
of shopping this around to other people, so naturally if
they don't know that person, or if they don't.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Know, it's you're the good guy.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
You're the good yeah. Yeah, like I'm the hero of
the story, right like you're and this is the villain.
And so it's it's very easy to surround yourself with
people that are telling you you didn't do anything wrong,
you didn't do anything wrong, and as infuriating as it
was in that particular season that I just I didn't
I didn't feel like my wife understood my perspective and
(10:28):
understood where I was coming from looking back on it,
realizing no, she did, and she was communicating to me
that she was.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
But two things can be true.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
She she was really the only one that could have
possibly understood both of their perspectives because of her proximity
to the business, to me, to them, right and so
uh so, I you know it, I think there was
there was some of when I look back in that season,
just going to people that I knew were going to
(11:01):
take my side and tell me I was awesome. I'm
grateful that I had people that were that did that,
because being in that mental state, I needed that encouragement
and that affirmation. But to also have my wife who
was also there to remind me like, hey, you're not
(11:22):
You're not you know, this innocent victim here, Like you've
you've got things in this that you need to own
and take responsibility for and be held accountable for because
your actions hurt people, and your your inability to communicate
certain things hurt people.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
What from a business perspective or like just from a okay,
you know now you're five years past twenty nineteen, yeap,
what for your what's the biggest Maybe it's communication shift,
Maybe it's mindset shift of just how you think about things,
maybe more in the gray ye you know, like I'm
not always this hero. What are some of the biggest
earnings or shifts that you've taken from that specific situation
(12:03):
where this is different in me now?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So I think my wife would tell you that in
situations where somebody on the team is explaining to me
or expressing frustration with somebody else on the team, I
think my wife would tell you now that I am
much better at trying to first understand the other person's
(12:27):
perspective as opposed to just hearing one perspective and going
all in on well that must be the truth and
just understanding there are two sides to every story, and
the more we can attempt to understand the other perspective,
well we might actually get to a solve for this problem.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
And it.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Might serve to help the person who is frustrated in
the moment to see to see something that they may
be didn't see before.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, I didn't really think about that, you know, that
the thing that's going on in their life right now
that would cause them to react that way or do
this thing. So that's one I think. I'm just I'm
more understanding that there's always two sides to a story,
which sounds a little trite, but it was just it
was crazy how much I just I would hear something
(13:21):
and take it at face value and go, oh, that
must be truth. And so I think that's been a
gross area for me the last several years.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
I think.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
It's all and it's crazy. I was telling Emily about
this before we're recording, Like, you know, we're almost ten
years into this business. Wisdom compounds, and I just think
so many of the decisions we're making today, whether it's
people decisions or product decisions, or pricing or positioning or
all these things, it's so easy to look back and
(14:03):
go how have we not been doing this? We've been
around for ten years, how have we not been doing this?
And you look at these kind of situations and go, ma,
and I'm a different person because of going through this experience.
And there's no way I could have learned this apart
from living it. And so I think, like it's it's
(14:26):
just way easier post this situation. I think to like
give give myself grace for like not knowing what I
didn't know, and that doesn't excuse bad behavior, poor communication.
I don't want it to come across like well I
had to learn and listen somehow, So like it sucks
like I said things, did things that broke trust, hurt people,
(14:53):
and that sucks. I can't I can't undo those things, yep,
but I hopefully do those things to a lesser degree
or I avoid doing, you know, repeating some of that
behavior moving forward. And so I think the other piece
of it is learning to appreciate the people in my
(15:17):
life who are exceptional critical thinkers. And so it's interesting
you're actually one of those people in my life. Jeremy
is one of those people in my life. It's crazy enough,
like I've surrounded myself like some of the best friends
in the world, Kenny Blake, Bozar, Timmy Bauer, exceptional critical thinkers.
(15:38):
And that's not something I was That's not that's a
skill I am trying to develop and want to be
better at. But just like looking at a situation and
trying to examine it from all angles as opposed to
just to one lens.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I've heard it talked about. It's like turning the gem
when you read a book and you read it like
if I read one of my favorite books is East
of Eden, It's like if I read it five years ago,
and then the last time I read it was I think,
I think I read it last year too, the second,
the third time reading it, you're in a different life situation,
so you turned the gem slightly and you're seeing it
(16:19):
from a different perspective. And that ability to do that
was like life circumstances and stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Is it's key to have those people in your corner
for sure?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah? Yeah, So I think to your point, man, I mean,
I would agree with the sentiment that community community is it.
I heard a podcast the other day. It was like
this Harvard study where they followed around these Harvard graduates
from the moment they graduated, and I don't know if
they did like an annual survey with them or how
they followed them around necessarily, but like into their sixties
(16:51):
or seventies, and it was this like happiness survey, and
so they were trying to figure out, like, what of
these people that out of very similar you know, early
adult life, all went to Harvard, graduated from Harbor, probably
went on to have pretty lucrative careers. What was it
that made some of them really happy and some of
(17:12):
them not? And they pointed back to this correlation of
the folks that were happiest in their sixties and seventies
later in life were they all had four very close
friends outside of their spouse at the age of forty four.
(17:34):
And I'm not quite forty four, coming up on it
in I guess six years. But I was talking to
my wife about it the other day and I was like, wow,
like I've got my four.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I don't have very many. I don't know much more
than four.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Earlier seasons in my life there were points where I
had fifteen or twenty, and and so I've often like felt, oh,
I don't know, I've felt bad about like man, I
used to have so many for like I used to
like always I have somebody that I could hit up.
But as you get older, people have kids and move away,
and they did these things like just kind of lose
(18:14):
lose connection, and you're not in as many environments that
are can do.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I mean we all work remote, sweet Fish, a bit remote.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yep, this entire time. So so it's not like I'm
in pockets where I'm regularly meeting new people. Even church,
it's it's really easy to go in, go out, not
really engage and meet a whole lot of people, unfortunately.
And uh, and so I'm grateful that I have that
(18:41):
community and people that will stand in the gap when
you know, when you're going through really not sure if.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
You believe in yourself. Yeah, you're not sure if you're
believing yourself. So yeah, so that's that's my story.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Man, Thanks for getting vulnerable in this episode. Man, well,
we were gonna we're like thinking through how do we
do this. I think our original thought was we'll both
be able to share in one episode, but you lat
it all out in this one. I'm like, you know what,
this is a part one part to everybody, like, there's
no way I'm about to pivot this somehow and now
I'm gonna like just start sharing. So thank you for
(19:11):
doing this. I think we can say after only recording
part one, it was a good idea.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
From Emily's perspective.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It's this at us because I do think in business,
and especially when you're like listening, if you're listening to
B to B Growth or you're watching this and you've
been following our content, clearly we have opinions, We have
thoughts on content the future of content marketing. We also
have a lot of lived experience, and when we talk
about wisdom compounding, a lot of that comes from hard
(19:40):
stuff that we've been through and that flows into just
the way we communicate, the way we like. Literally, the
stuff that happens outside of content and media gets brought
in with us and we have to either figure out
how to put it on the back burner for a
little while or push through. That's just that's business, that's life.
So thank you for sharing this.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
It has been awesome. Man,
This one time, I distinctly remember thinking, I think the
world might be better without me in it.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I want to ask you a pretty personal question in
this episode, and I want to ask you to talk
through a time where you didn't believe in yourself and
just we'll process this kind of together over the next
few minutes. Therapy session therapy session on B to B
growth to throw someone under the bus right off the top.
Emily on our team, she's standing in the other room
(00:33):
right now, leads all of our creatives.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
She's like, you know, it'd be really cool.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You and James are like in person, maybe you should
give vulnerable, you know, like, let's just talk about our
mental like when it comes to business, when it comes
to life, Like, what's a time where we maybe we
were overthinking? We were just like, man, I don't know
if I can do this, And so I'm going to
put you on the hot seat right from the start
(00:58):
of this episode and just go, hey, tell me a
time that for you you were like, man, I don't know,
I don't know about this, So kick us off.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So it was twenty nineteen, early in the year twenty nineteen.
I remember I was sitting on my couch. It was
late at night, Lisa was already in bed, and I
very first time I'd a thought like this had ever
crossed my mind, But I legitimately was sitting on the
couch wondering like, is the world going to be a
(01:29):
better place if I'm not in it tomorrow? And legitimately
for the I mean, this is not something I'm fortunate that,
this is not something that I've felt a lot in
my life, ever in my life, but this one time,
I distinctly remember thinking, I think the world might be
better without me.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
In it tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
But what had led up to that? You know, in
the early years of business, I think it's natural to
include people in the business, bring you into the business
that you're close with, that you trust, friends, family, And
we certainly did that and worked with a lot of
people that we were close with some people. A couple
(02:11):
of people were in this room today that you know,
close friends that got brought into the business. And for
the folks in the room today, obviously it worked out,
or it has worked out today, but there's been a
lot of situations where it hasn't worked out. And in
early twenty nineteen were coming off the heels of not
(02:33):
one but two people that Lisa and I were both
very very close with that we brought into the business
and for you know, a myriad of reasons, a lot
being my own fault, my own immaturity and leadership and
not knowing how to navigate situations well and not knowing
how to communicate well. And you know, things went south
(02:58):
in both of those for both of those relationships, and
and it was directly related to those people getting brought
into the business, and and because they happened back to back,
so it was like this thing happened, and then a
few months later, something else happened with somebody else we
(03:19):
were very close with, and it was just created this
season in Lisa and I's marriage that was so tumultuous
because we we we cared for these people so much,
and and the situation was muddy. I mean, it was
(03:40):
It was very easy for Lisa to understand Lisa's not
involved in the business and never has been involved in
the business, but it was very easy for her to
empathize and understand their perspective and why they would be
so upset with me. And I think it created a
lot of Yeah, I created a lot of resentment on
(04:02):
my parts. Why don't you understand my perspective. Reality is
she did understand my perspective, she just also understood their perspective.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
When did Sweetfish start?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Twenty fifty so you're like four years in that this
is I know your spirit.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I don't know this story, but I know your spirit.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
You're like very much entrepreneur optimists, like we're going to
figure this out, ideas ideas, like what's the next thing.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Is this one of.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Those first times in starting Sweetfish where you're like this
has ripple effects like this like kind of like a
wake up moment where you're like, man, it's affecting relationships,
my marriage, like business, and this is all kind of
flooding together. This is one of the first times where
it was like felt that serious.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Uh yeah, I mean the first one of these says
two different relationships back to back. The first one was
the first time it really hit home and it impacted
our marriage. It impacted yep, things way outside the business.
And I think there's this natural response when something like
(05:04):
that happens that you go, Okay, this happened because you know, friends, family,
and business collided. So I'm just never going to let
that happen again. Like I just will keep friends and
family a thousand miles apart from business, and that that
was certainly my mindset for for a while. But then
(05:27):
you look at Jeremy right or CEOs running the day
to day of Sweetfish today. I was the best man
in his wedding.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So this stuff is it's nuanced, it's it's situational, it's
something like it's it's not science, it's it's art.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And so it's not I feel like it with content
today you have to take a stand. And you had
this it's black or it's white, and in this particular situation,
it's not that way. And those in those those relationships breaking,
they broke for a myriad of reasons outside of the
(06:09):
fact that they were were we were friends, or we
were family before they joined the business.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
If you put yourself in the shoes of that, I
were like, I just I don't know if I trust myself.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I don't know if I believe in myself right now?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Is is your initial reaction like had you built up
the internal like like you were cool to reach out
for help or was it was there something in you
that was like my pride doesn't want me to tell
someone that this is what I'm thinking right now.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, I don't. I Fortunately, I don't think there was,
because I think I started talking to somebody about it,
like the next day. I think I probably talked to
Lisa about it the very next day, uh, and then
was talking to other people about it.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It must have been within within days. I mean it
was a it was a very short.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Amount of time.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And there's something too, I mean, growing up in the church,
you just you hear this, like, you know, the devil
wants to work in the dark, like sin sin. We
keep sin in the dark because as soon as light
exposes it, it's gone, Like it's something can't something is
(07:20):
no longer in the dark as soon as light touches it. Yep.
And so this idea of like, Okay, if I keep
this to myself, if I keep it bottled up, that's
that's not going to do anything but but damage my heart,
my soul, my spirit. And so I kind of I
(07:41):
don't want to say I knew it instinctively, but i'd
just been you hear this message.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
It's interesting though, because both of us have a lot
of church experience, and I would say I think there's
plenty of people who have a church background when and
they've seen the power of community, but it still takes
a long time to have some of these like conversations
where it's like this is what's going on inside, I'm
going to actually bring this to people. So it's cool
to hear you say that was one of your first steps.
(08:08):
I think for a lot of people in business and
in life, it's like, how do I show that I'm
stronger than I actually am? Yep, and kind of grip
my teeth through this and hope that the season passes
and then we're just, you know, onto the next. But
I feel like that piece of okay in business and
in life right now, I don't know that I trust
or believe in myself, and I don't know like how
(08:29):
I get through this. I literally on the airplane today,
I'm like taking notes about my own situations that I
found myself in and I literally was like joking and
said like get bye with little help from my friends,
because I'm like, I don't know, like community is such
a key part to it. And when you feel like
that level of loneliness, me too have sat in that
seat right It's like I don't trust myself, don't believe
(08:50):
in myself right now. Really hard to admit it to
my wife. Maybe different than your situation, but I resonate
with that, and I feel like community becomes like this
ultra important. Who can I tell this to and how
do we process together with someone that's not in the
same space that I'm in right now, Because that's the
other thing that can happen. You could be vulnerable with
someone that's as depressed or anxious or whatever is you,
(09:12):
and it's like you go in a downward spiral together
and the energy is just all off. So to find
someone that you can like can push back on you
in the right ways and like bring the best out
of you and just be there with you to like, hey,
I see you and like you're fully known, fully loved.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, that's what everybody needs. I feel like, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
The other thing too that I think you know, er,
I've mistakes I've made in the pursuit of other people
and bringing other people into hard situations, particular where it's
conflict between me and another person. It's very easy to
(09:52):
not represent the other person's perspective well as you're kind
of shopping this around to other people, so naturally if
they don't know that person, or if they don't.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Know, it's you're the good guy.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
You're the good yeah. Yeah, like I'm the hero of
the story, right like you're and this is the villain.
And so it's it's very easy to surround yourself with
people that are telling you you didn't do anything wrong,
you didn't do anything wrong, and as infuriating as it
was in that particular season that I just I didn't
I didn't feel like my wife understood my perspective and
(10:28):
understood where I was coming from looking back on it,
realizing no, she did, and she was communicating to me
that she was.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
But two things can be true.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
She she was really the only one that could have
possibly understood both of their perspectives because of her proximity
to the business, to me, to them, right and so
uh so, I you know it, I think there was
there was some of when I look back in that season,
just going to people that I knew were going to
(11:01):
take my side and tell me I was awesome. I'm
grateful that I had people that were that did that,
because being in that mental state, I needed that encouragement
and that affirmation. But to also have my wife who
was also there to remind me like, hey, you're not
(11:22):
You're not you know, this innocent victim here, Like you've
you've got things in this that you need to own
and take responsibility for and be held accountable for because
your actions hurt people, and your your inability to communicate
certain things hurt people.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
What from a business perspective or like just from a okay,
you know now you're five years past twenty nineteen, yeap,
what for your what's the biggest Maybe it's communication shift,
Maybe it's mindset shift of just how you think about things,
maybe more in the gray ye you know, like I'm
not always this hero. What are some of the biggest
earnings or shifts that you've taken from that specific situation
(12:03):
where this is different in me now?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So I think my wife would tell you that in
situations where somebody on the team is explaining to me
or expressing frustration with somebody else on the team, I
think my wife would tell you now that I am
much better at trying to first understand the other person's
(12:27):
perspective as opposed to just hearing one perspective and going
all in on well that must be the truth and
just understanding there are two sides to every story, and
the more we can attempt to understand the other perspective,
well we might actually get to a solve for this problem.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
And it.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Might serve to help the person who is frustrated in
the moment to see to see something that they may
be didn't see before.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, I didn't really think about that, you know, that
the thing that's going on in their life right now
that would cause them to react that way or do
this thing. So that's one I think. I'm just I'm
more understanding that there's always two sides to a story,
which sounds a little trite, but it was just it
was crazy how much I just I would hear something
(13:21):
and take it at face value and go, oh, that
must be truth. And so I think that's been a
gross area for me the last several years.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
I think.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
It's all and it's crazy. I was telling Emily about
this before we're recording, Like, you know, we're almost ten
years into this business. Wisdom compounds, and I just think
so many of the decisions we're making today, whether it's
people decisions or product decisions, or pricing or positioning or
all these things, it's so easy to look back and
(14:03):
go how have we not been doing this? We've been
around for ten years, how have we not been doing this?
And you look at these kind of situations and go, ma,
and I'm a different person because of going through this experience.
And there's no way I could have learned this apart
from living it. And so I think, like it's it's
(14:26):
just way easier post this situation. I think to like
give give myself grace for like not knowing what I
didn't know, and that doesn't excuse bad behavior, poor communication.
I don't want it to come across like well I
had to learn and listen somehow, So like it sucks
like I said things, did things that broke trust, hurt people,
(14:53):
and that sucks. I can't I can't undo those things, yep,
but I hopefully do those things to a lesser degree
or I avoid doing, you know, repeating some of that
behavior moving forward. And so I think the other piece
of it is learning to appreciate the people in my
(15:17):
life who are exceptional critical thinkers. And so it's interesting
you're actually one of those people in my life. Jeremy
is one of those people in my life. It's crazy enough,
like I've surrounded myself like some of the best friends
in the world, Kenny Blake, Bozar, Timmy Bauer, exceptional critical thinkers.
(15:38):
And that's not something I was That's not that's a
skill I am trying to develop and want to be
better at. But just like looking at a situation and
trying to examine it from all angles as opposed to
just to one lens.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I've heard it talked about. It's like turning the gem
when you read a book and you read it like
if I read one of my favorite books is East
of Eden, It's like if I read it five years ago,
and then the last time I read it was I think,
I think I read it last year too, the second,
the third time reading it, you're in a different life situation,
so you turned the gem slightly and you're seeing it
(16:19):
from a different perspective. And that ability to do that
was like life circumstances and stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Is it's key to have those people in your corner
for sure?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah? Yeah, So I think to your point, man, I mean,
I would agree with the sentiment that community community is it.
I heard a podcast the other day. It was like
this Harvard study where they followed around these Harvard graduates
from the moment they graduated, and I don't know if
they did like an annual survey with them or how
they followed them around necessarily, but like into their sixties
(16:51):
or seventies, and it was this like happiness survey, and
so they were trying to figure out, like, what of
these people that out of very similar you know, early
adult life, all went to Harvard, graduated from Harbor, probably
went on to have pretty lucrative careers. What was it
that made some of them really happy and some of
(17:12):
them not? And they pointed back to this correlation of
the folks that were happiest in their sixties and seventies
later in life were they all had four very close
friends outside of their spouse at the age of forty four.
(17:34):
And I'm not quite forty four, coming up on it
in I guess six years. But I was talking to
my wife about it the other day and I was like, wow,
like I've got my four.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I don't have very many. I don't know much more
than four.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Earlier seasons in my life there were points where I
had fifteen or twenty, and and so I've often like felt, oh,
I don't know, I've felt bad about like man, I
used to have so many for like I used to
like always I have somebody that I could hit up.
But as you get older, people have kids and move away,
and they did these things like just kind of lose
(18:14):
lose connection, and you're not in as many environments that
are can do.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I mean we all work remote, sweet Fish, a bit remote.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yep, this entire time. So so it's not like I'm
in pockets where I'm regularly meeting new people. Even church,
it's it's really easy to go in, go out, not
really engage and meet a whole lot of people, unfortunately.
And uh, and so I'm grateful that I have that
(18:41):
community and people that will stand in the gap when
you know, when you're going through really not sure if.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
You believe in yourself. Yeah, you're not sure if you're
believing yourself. So yeah, so that's that's my story.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Man, Thanks for getting vulnerable in this episode. Man, well,
we were gonna we're like thinking through how do we
do this. I think our original thought was we'll both
be able to share in one episode, but you lat
it all out in this one. I'm like, you know what,
this is a part one part to everybody, like, there's
no way I'm about to pivot this somehow and now
I'm gonna like just start sharing. So thank you for
(19:11):
doing this. I think we can say after only recording
part one, it was a good idea.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
From Emily's perspective.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It's this at us because I do think in business,
and especially when you're like listening, if you're listening to
B to B Growth or you're watching this and you've
been following our content, clearly we have opinions, We have
thoughts on content the future of content marketing. We also
have a lot of lived experience, and when we talk
about wisdom compounding, a lot of that comes from hard
(19:40):
stuff that we've been through and that flows into just
the way we communicate, the way we like. Literally, the
stuff that happens outside of content and media gets brought
in with us and we have to either figure out
how to put it on the back burner for a
little while or push through. That's just that's business, that's life.
So thank you for sharing this.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
It has been awesome. Man,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.