I Saw the British Equivalent of a Bigfoot! - Bigfoot Eyewitness Episode 496

Tonight’s guest, Jonathan Downes, is the Director of The Center for Fortean Zoology, in Scottland. Jonathan founded The Center for Fortean Zoology 32 years ago, so this isn’t a new venture for him. When you consider all of the experience he has researching sightings and legends of unclassified creatures, how could there be a better eyewitness to come on the show to talk about a cryptid sighting he had? What Jonathan saw is called a woodwose. The term woodwose is in reference to what is believed to be a mythological being that is characterized by an untamed, wild, and hairy appearance. To some, they’re known as wild men. Others consider them to be the British equivalent to bigfoot. Nevertheless, in January of 2003, Jonathan saw a woodwose, and that experience is what Jonathan is going to be talking about on tonight’s show. We hope you’ll tune in and listen to him do that.

If you’d like to visit the Center for Fortean Zoology’s website, please go to…

CFZ.org.uk

If you’d like to visit the Center for Fortean Zoology’s YouTube Channel, please go to… 

https://www.youtube.com/@cfztv

If you’ve had a Sasquatch sighting and would like to be a guest on the show, please go to BigfootEyewitness.com and let me know. I’d love to hear from you.

If you’d like to help support the show, by buying your own Bigfoot Eyewitness t-shirt or sweatshirt, please visit the Bigfoot Eyewitness Show Store, by going to https://Dogman-Encounters.MyShopify.com

I produce 4 other shows that are available on your favorite podcast app. If you haven't checked them out, here are links to all 4 channels on the Spreaker App...

My Bigfoot Sighting https://www.spreaker.com/show/my-bigfoot-sighting 

Dogman Tales https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/dogman-tales--6640134

Dogman Encounters https://www.spreaker.com/show/dogman-encounters-radio_2 

My Paranormal Experience https://www.spreaker.com/show/my-paranormal-experience 

Thanks, as always, for listening!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello. My name's Jonathan Dans. I'm the director of an
organization called the Center for fourteen Zoology, which I started
in Scotland thirty two years ago. I live in England
in a little village no one has ever heard of

(00:34):
in North Devon, and I still run the Center for
fourteen Zoology from my home and back in twenty three.
In January twenty three, I saw a wood rose and

(00:55):
it was an enormous surprise to me, and I suspect
that if the thing I saw was sentient, it would
have been just as much of a surprise to it.
It's quite a complicated story how I got to see
the wood rows. But at the end of twenty oh two,

(01:20):
from that September or October onwards, to have been a
big spate of wood rows sightings in Britain. And this
is something that doesn't or hapn't usually happened in Britain.
For many years, it happened very occasionally that to have

(01:41):
a whole string of these things happening all the way
across the country, from Northumberland in the north to Sussex
in the south was unprecedented, and just after Christmas that year,
I was approached by two different people from Northumberland who

(02:07):
wanted me and my research team to come up and
investigate because they had met a whole string of witnesses.
They had gathered a lot of information and they wanted
to hand it over to the experts. Well, I would
like to say that I'm an expert, but I'm just

(02:29):
like the rest of you. When we're dealing with something
as peculiar as this, there is no experts. Everybody is
flailing around in the dark. And so I was as
nervous as anybody else would be when in the second

(02:50):
week in January we drove up to a place called
Bolum Lake, up about forty miles north west of Newcastle
City Center, up in the north of England, to meet
first of all the guy who'd been researching this on

(03:12):
the ground, and then to meet a whole string of
people who had experienced this strange phenomena. Now, the first
thing that I want to say is that was we
drove up, I didn't believe in this. I had been
told by a friend of mine who worked for one

(03:34):
of the tabloid newspapers. And I don't know what it's
like in other countries, but in Britain, at least, the
tabloid newspapers are far trashia and far less reputable than
the big broadsheet newspapers. And this guy, who is a

(03:55):
mate of mine, worked for one of the worst of
the trashy newspapers, and he told me that there had
been a reporter from one of the other trashing newspapers.
And I can't after well over twenty years, I can't
remember Drati which newspaper it was. But the story was

(04:19):
that was a reporter for one of these other trashing
newspapers wearing a monkey suit, jumping out from behind bushes
to scare people, to try to make a newsworthy story
that would be funny and would go on the front
page the newspapers. So I thought that we'd play him

(04:40):
at his own game. And so we bought paintball guns
and a load of paintball ammunition, and our plan was
that we were going to catch this newspaper guy, cover
him with paint hogtie him, and then drive him right
down and the big N one motorway to London and

(05:03):
drop him on the front doorstep of the newspapers that
you worked for, take lots of photographs and then tell
my mate and the other newspaper so we could all
have a good laugh at the reporter's expense. But things
never work out the way you think they're going to.

(05:28):
I thought it was all going to be fairly simple
and cut and dried, but it wasn't. As soon as
we met the first witness, and I'm not going to
give any names, but as soon as we met the
first witness, it was clear that what they had encountered
was very real and very unsettling phenomenon. Over the next

(05:55):
three days, I think for memory, we met eight on
nine different witnesses, and what they had seen was something
very tall, very man shaped, that's dark, jumping between trees

(06:17):
and running across the surface of what we could see
by pure daylight. With marshland. We went and had a
look and it seemed very very unlikely that anything heavy,
especially anything that was seven or eight foot tall, could

(06:38):
run across the surface of this because it was marsh,
it was bog land, it was very very wet, and
I would have imagined that they would have sunk into
it and not saying it was quicksand that they were
sunk into and not being able to jump across the
jump and run across theshland because they would have got

(07:02):
bogged down in it. Now we're going to come to
my experience. We'd been there for two days. We've been
there on the Thursday night and the Friday and on
the Saturday morning. The BBC, that's C for those of

(07:25):
you not in Britain. The BBC is the national broadcasting company.
A day had a fist to do a flagship news
show on BBC Radio for call the Today Program, and
they wanted me to appear on the Today Program. But

(07:45):
for reasons are their own, they wanted me to appear
not only live, but using an outside broadcast vehicle, actually
at the location where so many of these sightings had
taken place. It was the middle of the winter and

(08:09):
it's still dark in Britain at seven in the morning
at that time of year. The car came to collect
me to take me to the location. A BBC limousine
turned up at the place I was staying at, a
friend of mine's house at a quarter to seven and
drove me to the location, and when we got there,

(08:31):
it was still that weird bit just before dawn when
you can see the beginnings of the light rising in
the west. In the west, now in the east, I
think you see the light beginning to come up, but

(08:52):
the sun has not yet appeared in the whole world
that weird sort of pinky purple color. And the first
thing we found out, as the B side broadcast person
had found out a behalf an hour before us, was
that we couldn't get into the woodland where the sightings

(09:15):
had taken place because they were fenced off and the
gate of the car park was closed and bolted at
that time of the morning. So we did this outside
broadcast from the layby on the other side of the
road opposite the car park. The BBC guy had a

(09:37):
fairly small car which was covered with electronic equipment. Has
had two satellite dishes and a whole lot of things
and radio transmitters and other bits of electronic equipment on
its roof, and it really looked like something out of

(09:58):
a comedy film. Because I've worked with outside broadcast vehicles
before and they're usually vans, and they're usually very professional looking.
This one looked like it had been put together in
about five minutes for somebody who didn't know what they
were doing. And the electronic equipment kept on making strange noises.

(10:24):
Bits of it began to feedback, and other bits you
could hear picking up on a time signal from the
BBC broadcasters down in London, and we went over. I
shook the BBC guy's hand and he said why, and
we were all friendly to each other, and I went

(10:46):
off back to lean on the side of the limousine.
I still smoked in those days. I don't anymore, to
horrible habit, but I sat back. I leant back with
the chauffeur of the demo, smoking a cigarette and waiting
to see what was going to happen. The broadcast was

(11:09):
scheduled to be just after eight o'clock, and just as
we were coming to eight, there was an extraordinary noise.
Now I'm sixty six, and so I know that people
of my age give will take ten years, maybe even

(11:30):
give will take fifteen years, will know what I'm talking
about when I say that the big booming sound that
I heard was just like the amplified heartbeats at the
beginning of a record called Darkside of the Moon by
Pink Floyd. If you guys are under the age of

(11:51):
fifty and you haven't heard that record, then I think
I can recommend that you all go out and get
hold of a copy, or at least listen to it
on Spotify, because you don't know what you're missing. But anyway,
there was this big booming sound that sounded like amplified heartbeats,

(12:12):
and I assumed that it was something to do with
the BBC guy's equipment. And I looked at the limousine
driver and he looked at me, and we both thought
it was quite strange. But then suddenly it stopped, and

(12:34):
we discovered that we were actually standing and the trees
that we were standing underneath had a whole colony of
rooks and crows living there, and they all started to
make the noises that rooks and crows do. They all
started to squawk. I hear that every morning, just before dawn,

(12:57):
because there's a rookery in one of the little stands
of trees about one hundred yards away from my garden,
so I'm quite used to that sound. But when you're
there and there right all around you, it's quite an
unearthy sound, and just as the amplified heartbeats ended, the

(13:18):
book started to squawk and then suddenly, for no reason
at all, it became completely silent. Just as it became silent,
the BBC guy beckoned me over, gave me a pair
of headphones so I could hear the guy in the
studio back in London asking me questions. I did the

(13:38):
interview it then you shook about ten minutes, we all
shook hands, and the driver, the number zen driver, drove
me back to a little town called See Him on
Sea Word and staying at my friend's house. About an
hour or so late, after I'd had breakfast, me and

(14:00):
my research team drove back up to Bolham Lake. We
met people that I had recruited from a local paranormal
research group that had been being run by a friend
of mine, and they all had volunteered to be sort
of foot soldiers for me doing this research. And I

(14:23):
put everybody to work doing measurements that were the measurements straight,
and mapping and exploring the woods just to see if
there's what food stuff for were that were obviously available
that an animal, if there was a fresh and blood

(14:46):
living animal of the size that had been reported living there,
what it could be eating. And during that day we
had another couple of witnesses turned up and they walked
us through their experiences, showed us where they had been
when they had seen it, what happened before and immediately after,

(15:10):
and we filmed and photographed all of this in order
to have the best possible record that we could have
of the activities as they'd happened. And then it came
to the end of the day that all the way
through the day, something very very strange had been happening.

(15:31):
Every single piece of electronic equipment or electrical equipment we
had failed. We were there in four cars. Three of
the car's batteries suddenly became flat. All the walkie talkies
the batteries flattened out, all the mobile phones batteries flattened out.

(15:54):
Even my laptop that I was using to write notes
in the sitting in my car, which I was driving,
an old Jaguar XO six them a lovely, large, comfortable
old car, and I was sitting in it, typing away
furiously on my laptop, and that battery ran out. The
only battery not to run out was my Jaguars and

(16:19):
we thought that was very strange. We kept on recharging batteries.
We jump started the other cars batteries from my car.
We kept on recharging the phones and everything from the
car batteries. We kept the other cars engines running not
to keep it so the alternators which keep the batteries charged,

(16:40):
and so we could still recharge our equipment. But by
the time she got to the end of the day,
and remember this is the wintertime, and it gets dark
by five o'clock, and we were all tired, cold, hungry
and wanted to cup of tea or something stronger, and

(17:02):
we're all totally fed up with having had all our
electrical equipment fail on us, and so we were all
making plans to leave as soon as we could. And
then what happened in the morning happened in reverse. We
could hear all the crows and the rooks all squawking,

(17:24):
all kept very unearthly horrible sand. It really is frightening,
especially if it's happening all around you. And I found
that later. This is one of the biggest rookeries in Northumberland,
enormous rookery, so there were probably tens of thousands of
crows and rooks all squawking at once. When you think

(17:48):
that the rookery, which is quite loud, that one hundred
yards away from my garden has about sixty crows and
brooks sleeping in it, this probably had twenty, and it's
incredibly noisy. And then suddenly, just as they had in
the morning, the noise stopped, and then, just as it

(18:11):
had in the morning, the booming, boom boom, half beat
sand came out of the woods, and it was incredibly, incredibly,
incredibly loud, or it seemed so to us. By this time,
there were five of us, three of us leaning against

(18:33):
the bonnet of my Jaguar, and it was nearly darker,
and I had the headlights on, the engine was running,
I had the headlights on illuminating the baron wood in
front of us, and there were a couple of other people,
all leaning on the side of the car and all
talking at once. When suddenly we saw in a part

(18:57):
of the woods that had been illuminated to buy the
car headlights. Three out of the five us saw something
very tall and human like and completely jet black, running
very fast from right to left. Now I'm no good

(19:20):
at estimating distances, so what I did was I noticed
and made a note of what trees it ran from
what tree it ran to, so I could go back
on the Monday and take more accurate measurements. It ran

(19:41):
from right to left, and then a few seconds later
it ran from left to right again, and the whole
experience took less than five seconds. And the nearest thing
I can come to describing it. It was very tall.
It was very thin and spindly, and again going to

(20:06):
cultural references, I don't know how many of you have
ever played the computer game Doomed two, but there's a
set of bad guys and that which are a sort
of robot that's very spindly and that can run very
fast in jerky movements. It was like that, but it

(20:27):
was jet black, and it didn't even appear to be
three dimensional. If anything, it appeared to be a giant,
spindly man shaped piece of nothingness against the sky. And
we saw it from one side to the other and

(20:50):
from running the other side back again, and the three
of us who saw it looked at each other and
using language I'm not going to use on this show,
said goodness. We didn't say goodness, but I'm going to
say goodness, and goodness did you see that? And all

(21:11):
three of us nod at our heads. Now, something very
strange then happened. I don't know how many of you
listening to this know what endorphins are, but they are
the pleasure chemicals which are produced by the body. And

(21:35):
within about ten I went off to try and get
my head together and try and arrange my thoughts and
find makes sense of what had been an impossible experience.
And slowly, over the next ten minutes, my body was
flooded with endorphins. And I have never felt like this

(22:00):
before or since in my life. But I was flooded
with endorphins for the next thirty six hours sh And
the only thing that I can extrapolate from this is
that it was as a result of what I'd seen,

(22:23):
as something in what I had seen had stimulated the
receptors in my brain which are accessible by endorphins and
similar chemicals. And like I said, I felt like this
for the next day and a half. Now, over the

(22:45):
next couple of days, we started to make sense of
this one thing that we had done. During the days
that we had our researchers had used compasses, dising rods,
and earf machines to try to see if there had

(23:06):
been any electromagnetic fluctuations along this part of the forest,
and we did discover that there were some extraordinary electromagnetic
fluctuations that made the compasses go haywire, and which is
what I assume is what had drained all the batteries

(23:33):
of the cars. And I found out later when I
came back to my headquarters in Devonshire, I discovered that
that particular part of Northumberland was crisscrossed with big veins
of magnetically charged iron ore called magnetite, which obviously what

(23:57):
seems obviously had seen effects on the electronic equipment we used.
But did it also have serious effects either on us
or on the area. Did it have anything to do

(24:18):
with the wood woes that I saw and the two
other people saw, or is it all just coincides? And
that I think is the end of what I'm going
to talk about without being asked, because I'm sure the
lots of questions that you want to ask me that

(24:40):
we'll go into this in more detail.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
I do have plenty, That's correct. I thought you would, Oh, definitely,
you know that. The first question I have for you, Jonathan,
is most people listening to tonight's show in the US
don't know what a wood wolf was it, so with
that in mind, please educate them.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
The wood woes is the ancient Saxon and the Saxon
term for a wild man. It means literally the wild
man in the woods. And wood roses have been part
of British folklore going back till the days of the Romans,

(25:29):
and probably before. They've been going back for as long
as there has been a written record of folk law,
and probably for millennia before that. They are in many
ways considered to be the British equivalent of Bigfoot. But

(25:49):
whereas I'm a zoologist, I've spent my whole life studying
this stuff, and I've spent the the second two thirds
of my adult life doing this as my profession, and
I believe that there is a lot of evidence to

(26:10):
suggest that there is an unknown species of flesh and
blood higher primate, or at least one. Speci's made them
more in North America, which people call bigfoot or Saskatch.
They are real flesh and blood animals. These things that
people call wood rows are far less tangible. And I

(26:35):
don't like the words paranormal and supernatural. I think they're
stupid words, because I think that these things are perfectly
normal and perfectly natural. They're just defined by laws of
science we don't understand yet. And although I have spent

(26:55):
a lot of my adult life chasing these shadows, chasing
things that cannot be defined purely in terms of zoological science,
I believe that what I'm doing is scientific, But I'm
just trying to find laws of science who don't understand yet.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
If you believe that they're not supernatural beings, if you
believe that they are flesh and blood creatures out there,
but they just play by a different set of rules,
how could that be? How could they be flesh and
blood but play by rules that are different than the
ones that the rest of us play by.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
I don't know what they are. I don't actually think
that the ones in Britain and Western Europe, I don't
think they are flesh and blood, or if they are
flesh and blood, it's a complete different sort of flesh
and blood than we understand at the moment. But I

(27:57):
think the ones in North America are flesh and blood.
I think that the ones across Russia and what used
to be Soviet Central Asia, I think they're flesh and blood,
because these things turn up in cultures all across the world.
But I don't think that the ones in Britain are

(28:21):
flesh and blood. But at the moment, I can't even
say that. I'm just say that we don't know what
they're a.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
I'm sure it's not lost on you that most people
in Britain who are into sasquatch and crypto zoology period,
they're convinced that you don't have enough area there for
sasquatch to be So if they did play by a
different set of rules, if woodwoes played by a different
set of rules than what the rest of us do,

(28:48):
they would definitely explain how they could be there, even
though you don't have the broad expanses that we have
over here.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Oh yeah, it's not just that we don't have the room.
But in places like Bolum Lake. Blum Lake is only
a forty acre forest. It's tiny. It's tiny if you
compare it with the enormous expanse of the forest in
the Pacific Northwest. This is a tiny little piece of

(29:19):
managed woodland that's only forty miles from the middle of
one of our largest cities. It's tiny and there isn't
the food there for it. There's not food there for one,
let alone a viable population. But these things have been

(29:41):
reported both in Bolung Lake and in other forest in
the area, such as Kielder Forest, for centuries. So something
has happened. Like that Bob Dyln song goes, something is happening,
but you don't know what it is, do you, Jones?

(30:01):
And I'm mister Jones, I'd say you are. I've got
no idea what is going on there? That something does
go on in these places, and I have spent a
large chunk of my adult life trying to find out
what it is.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Well, we've got a good man on the job. There's
no debating that. I'm sure a lot of people listening
to tonight's show do know what cryptozoology is, but they
don't know what Fortian zoology is. Who better than the
director at the Center of Fordian Zoology to educate them.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Well, fortien Zology is an expression I made up for myself.
I started fourteen and I assume that many of you
will know what forteen means. That there was an American
philosopher and historian called Charles fort who spent most of

(31:01):
his adult life sitting in the British Museum reading Room
and in other great libraries the British Library reading Room, sorry,
in the British Museum reading Room and other libraries around
the world, cataloging things that didn't fit in with the
accepted scientific paradigms, and the study of such a normalies

(31:27):
became known just before he died as fourteen being appertaining too.
Charles fort Fort himself hated the term and tried to
forbid his friends and followers from using it. But I'm
afraid the name stuck and fought died in sometime in

(31:48):
the nineteen thirties. Forgive me, I'm an old man now.
My memory is terrible. Nineteen thirty two, I think, And
nearly one hundred years later, his name things lingers on,
and so do the word fourteen. And I have always
been interested in cryptozoology, but I realized from the beginning

(32:10):
that an awful lot of the things that interest me
are not necessarily cryptos orological, because although they are dealing
with things that appear to be animals, and that sometimes
behave like animals and often look like animals, logically takes
that they can't be. So the thing that they're talking

(32:31):
about earlier, the things that I hate using the word
paranormals or supernatural because they're stupid words. Because, like I said,
these things are perfectly natural and perfectly normal, we just
then understand them. The study of such things had to
be something larger than cryptozoology, so I invented the term

(32:54):
fourteen zoology, just so it's an umbrella term all these things.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
It's strange that he was so put off by being
named after him. You think he would just be flattered
by being called fourteen.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
He was a funny chap, and I'm not Sadly I
don't have a time machine. If I did, one of
the things I'd want to do is to go back
and talk to him. But so far, nobody's invented a
time machine, so I can't go back and ask him.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
That's a good point. It'd be an interesting conversation, though.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
If any of you out there listening has got a
time machine in your garage, please give me a ring.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
If your phone rings, please let me know.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
I certainly will.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
I appreciate it. When you saw that tall, dark figure
running from right to left and then from left to right,
how close was it to you?

Speaker 2 (33:53):
That's a very good question. It was about one hundred
yards away.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
So it wasn't too far, but it was still a
fairly good distance from you. Okay, I see if it
was about one hundred yards away as it was doing that,
was it looking at you the whole time or focusing elsewhere?

Speaker 2 (34:12):
I couldn't tell. It was just this tall, spindly figure
running from one side and then back again. It didn't
act in any way as if it were even aware
of our presence. It didn't interact with us at all.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
You said, it never gave me the indications that it
was aware of your presence. But if your headlights had
been on before the batteries drained in the vehicles and
went out, you think it would have had to have
known that you were there. So I'm wondering if it
did know that you were there and was just alarmed
and that's why it was running that way.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Either way, I've just realized it's just said something stupid.
It was one hundred feet, not one hundred yards. Yeah,
it was about thirty two yards, so it's just over
one hundred feet.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Oh yeah, that changes everything. I can't see how I
couldn't have known you were there, but you were there,
I wasn't so.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah, I it was one of the weird, not necessarily
the completely the weirdest thing to ever happen to me.
Since I took on doing this as a professional, all
sorts of strange things have happened to me, that this
has got to be one of the weirdest things to
ever happen to me. And trust me, it's very difficult

(35:33):
to put it into English, to put it into words,
how it was very cold ones as night, and suddenly
you're confronted with something that defies rational explanation or even,
to be quite honest, defies rational description.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Oh. I totally understand that worribil we need to explain
things is really limited by things that we can share
with others who are listening to us, that they can
compare to If they've never had that type of an experience,
the experience that you have that night, then it makes
it really difficult to explain how it felt to be

(36:16):
in that situation, what you experienced. I get it. I
totally do. Now. When you're describing that being that you saw,
it sounds like from how you explained it, it had
this kind of like a strange two dimensional quality to it.
Can you go into more depth and more detail explaining that.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yes, it was fat it it It was like somebody
had taken a craft knife and cut a slice out
of what we were looking at. And there was a

(36:58):
man shaped bigfoot if you want, shape of nothingness running
across the view in front of us. It was two dimensional,
but it there's also unlike anything else I've ever experienced.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Oh no, I could believe that. Now again, Jonathan, you
were there, I wasn't. I would want to put any
words into your mouth. I'm just curious putting this out
there as a possibility.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
You're not putting word on me or you're doing really well, mate.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Thank you, well, you're welcome. Thank you listening to you
explain what you experienced that night. I'm sure it's not
lost on you that a lot of eyewitnesses who have
seen sasquatch they talk about the blacker than black black
color of the sasquatch they saw. Is there a possibility
that what you saw that night was almost that vanta

(37:54):
blacker than black black color, And because of that, it
made it seem as if it was two dimensional, a
two dimensional being, when in fact it was a three
dimensional being like the rest of us.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Possibly, or even a multi dimensional being that's with doing
something that my brain couldn't compute.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
That makes sense, that might be. When it comes to
these things, anything is possible, so you can't rule anything out.
You said this figure was roughly nine feet tall.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Did I hear you correctly? I made it about seven
and a half feet.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Tall, about seven and a half feet tall. I see.
I'm sure there are gonna be some skeptics listening who
think that it could have been a man in a suit.
But it sounds like that's rolled out.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
I can give you an idea why I couldn't be
a man suit if you liked. First of all, the
area was running across was very wet and muddy, and sobby.
I went back there on the Monday, and it was

(39:11):
it was very, very, very muddy and soggy. And I'm
not half feet tall, I mean you six and a
half feet tall, and I started sinking into the mud.
It was very difficult the idea that we got a
very very tall man either in a suit or covered

(39:31):
in that vent of black paint so one couldn't see
who it was. You know, you've got to say that
you've got a seven and a half football ballet dancer
who's agile enough to jump across that sort of terrain
will slipping into it. And you've stripped and naked's some

(39:53):
half feet tall and covered him in black paint. If
you got him to do it. If you can find
me a sudden a half foottall, naked body dancer covered
in black paint, then I would agree it was It
was a person, was a hope. It was something that
defies any reasonable description.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Oh no, I believe you. I could definitely understand why
you came to that conclusion. Did that experience have wide
sweeping effects on how open minded you were when it
comes to things like this? Or did it not move
the needle?

Speaker 2 (40:31):
I've always believed in stuff like this. That was the
first time. That's probably the weirdest thing I've ever experienced.
But I had before, and I have since interviewed so
many people who have seen things that really are inexplicable

(40:57):
that although I felt honored to have seen it for myself,
it didn't change my viewpoint. It was what happened to
me afterwards change my viewpoint because I was not expecting
the effects on my personal biochemistry. I wasn't expecting to

(41:18):
be flooded by endoorphins for the next six hours. Because
that's something I'd never experienced before. And although there are
substances which can mimic the productions of endorphins in the brain,

(41:42):
I hadn't taken any of them, nor have I done since,
and I've never experienced anything like that. And I've never
experienced anything like that again. It was absolutely or inspiring experience.
It was almost what if you read theological books, It's

(42:09):
almost like the thing that had been described by certain
theologians religious ecstasy. It was absolutely unbelievable, and that was
the thing that really opened up my mind to new possibilities,

(42:35):
and eventually I did extrapolate something from this that I
think makes a certain amount of sense.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
When you have an experience like that, it definitely does
open one's mind all sorts of possibilities. So I understand now,
Jonathan is one thing of the average layperson happens to
see something in the forest and they come back and
report seeing a wood woes, seeing a wild man, a sasquatch.

(43:05):
But when the director at the Center for fourteen Zoology
comes back and says that they saw a sasquatch or
a wood woes or a wild man that's totally different.
Did you ring the bill after having that experience, to
spread the news far and wide, as far and wide
as you could that you had this experience, or for
the most part, did you keep it to yourself?

Speaker 2 (43:26):
No. I publicized it because we are a public organization
where funded by the public, the said of our publications
and things, and when you've got people who, by buying
our publications and watching our TV shows and stuff, pay

(43:46):
our bills, we have a moral duty to share what
we find with them. And the thing again that I
wasn't expecting was the amount of hatred got, the amount
of hate mail and even threats, even threats, that I
received after going public with this. If it was because

(44:13):
I said categorically that what I've seen could not be
a flesh and blood animal of any sort, it had
to be something different, and the amount of hatred I received,
you wouldn't believe.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Well, unfortunately, I would believe it. Why do you think
there is so much hatred that's directed and eyewitnesses when
they come forward and report experiences such as yours.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
I think it is because when people like me have
experiences which are so far away from a normal consensus reality.
I think that people feel threatened by it, and on

(45:04):
the other hand, people who are interested in this subject.
There are some people who don't have an open mind.
They have a completely ingrained idea that these things are
an animal, or these things are an alien, or these

(45:25):
things or whatever, and if somebody comes up with a
suggestion which threatens their belief system, then they feel threatened
and they react in the way the humans always do
when they feel threatened, and that's with anger.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
You know, it goes let me live one more day
without a single new thought. When something happens it challenges that.
A lot of people get very uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yes, exactly. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
It really is a shame it has to be that way,
but it is. That's how it is.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Now.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
You know there's at least one wood woes in that
area because you saw one. But considering how many sightings
have been reported in the area, do you think there's
a population there or all these people are seeing the
same one.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
I don't know. And because we don't know, and we
can only guess at the nature of these things, I
think we can't answer that question until we know more
about the nature of what they are, so possible on

(46:37):
that question.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
No problem. When you spoke with that eyewitness about that tall,
dark figure that he saw. When you spoke with him,
you hadn't seen your wood Woes yet, So with that
in mind, did you think that he was mistaken or
did you actually believe him?

Speaker 2 (46:56):
I believed that all witnesses that I spoke to believe
what they were turning me. Whether they what they were
experiencing had any objective reality, or had any reality, or
anybody apart from themselves, I didn't know, and truly I

(47:18):
still don't know. I don't know if what I saw
and what my friends saw had any objective reality outside
our own heads. I have no idea. Again, that's not
really a question. I believed that they believe what they
were turning me, But again it's not really a question

(47:42):
I can answer.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
That's true, you weren't there, but you were present when
you had your experience, and you can't lose sight of
the fact that you weren't the only one to witness
that Woodwoes. So there is no such thing as multiple
people hallucinating at the same time seeing the same thing.
So clearly, in my opinion, you saw what you saw.
That's all there is to it. It's hard to explain,

(48:06):
it's hard to understand, but I've got no doubts whatsoever.
You definitely saw what you saw, just like the people
with you. They saw what they saw as well, which
happened to be the same thing that you did.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Well, if the external stimulus was strong enough two cause
me to experience I saw, it was strong enough to
cause three out of the five of this to see
the same thing, whereas the other two people who were
stood looking exactly the same directions stood with us, didn't

(48:39):
see it. That's the thing I also find very strength.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
That is strange. It makes you wonder, but if those
two other people didn't see the wood was were they upset?
Were they frustrated by missing out?

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Now that's a damn good question. I don't know. I
never asked. That's a grid really good question. And why
I haven't thought of that in the last twenty three years,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
I'll bet you they were. Then again, I don't know
these people, but I know i'd be frustrated if I
was right there and three people with me in my
group saw something like this and I missed out, I'd
be awfully frustrated. I guarantee you that.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
It was a very strange night, not necessarily the strangest
things night I've had. It's a very strange one.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Oh, it sure sounds like it. It really does well, Jonathan.
I can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing
the details of that experience with this. I really do
appreciate it. Then, before we get out of here, did
you want to promote anything or I know you host
your own podcast.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Yes. First of all, if you're interested in what we do,
you can come check us out at the see said
Center for Fortune or all of your website, which is
CFC dot org dot UK. My tech guy keeps on

(50:09):
telling me that I'm horribly old fashioned because I put
www at the beginning and you don't have to do
that anymore. But it's CFAI dot org dot UK. And
if you want to see our podcast, our web TV
show which is at every Saturday afternoon at three o'clock

(50:33):
UK time on YouTube some on the CFZ tv which
you can find just for putting that into the YouTube
search engine. And we have a half our show every
Saturday afternoon and a quarter of our show every Wednesday

(50:54):
evening and another long discussion show once a month on
the last Wednesday of every month. Come and watch them.
Get involved, email me, come and join up. Let's see
if you want to get involved. There's plenty of room
and plenty of scope for you to do so.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Furgle and listening. If you want to listen to you
Jonathan's shows that he mentioned, which I hope you will.
I'm going to put a link for them in the
description for tonight's show. I'll make it really easy for
you to find them. But having said that, like I said,
I can't thank you enough for your time, Jonathan, I
really appreciate it, and please remember if I can ever
help you out in the future.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Let me know. Lucky.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Thank you, sir, Have a good night.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
That's it for another episode of Bigfoot Eyewitness Radio with
Vic Kendiff. If you've had a sasquatch encounter and would
like to be a guest on the show, please go
to Bigfoot Eyewitness dot com and submit a report. We'd
love to hear from you. You thanks for listening. Have
a great night.