March 28, 2025 • 36 mins
In this heartfelt and hilarious live BA QA session, Mandi Woodruff-Santos sits down with Emily Esquivel, a therapist-turned-entrepreneur who’s navigating the highs and lows of launching her own private practice. Together, they dive into the messy middle of entrepreneurship, from battling imposter syndrome to redefining what it means to run an ethical and sustainable business.
Emily opens up about her journey, including the pivotal moment that pushed her to leave toxic work environments, the emotional weight of using an inheritance to fund her dream, and the challenges of creating a high-ticket offer in a field that often undervalues its practitioners.
Mandi brings her signature blend of humor and wisdom to coach Emily through refining her business strategy, identifying her ideal client, and building confidence in her offer.Whether you’re dreaming of starting your own business or just trying to figure out your next career move, this episode is packed with relatable moments, actionable advice, and plenty of laughs along the way.
What We Covered:
• Emily’s Career Journey: From working in toxic environments to launching her own private practice.
• The Emotional Side of Entrepreneurship: How grief and family legacy shaped Emily’s decision to go solo.
• Imposter Syndrome & Confidence Building: Why believing in your offer is key to success.
• Ethical Business Models: Emily’s vision for creating a group practice that prioritizes therapists’ well-being over profits.
• High-Ticket Offers: The challenges of pricing and selling services in a way that aligns with your values.
• Marketing 101 for Entrepreneurs: Mandi’s tips on building a sales funnel, creating lead magnets, and nurturing potential clients.
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CHECK OUT EMILY ESQUIVEL:
https://oyanova.com
https://www.linkedin.com/company/oyanova-healing-pllc
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, everybody, welcome. I have been doing. This is
my fourth career crisis call. And if you are like, wait,
this is a career crisis call, just stay with me.
Just look at me, don't look at anybody else. Don't
Forget what I said yesterday. Forget what I called it
a couple of days. Forget what it Forget it, forget
she's gone now, the woman who invented it, she's a
new person.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We reinvent ourselves. We do things before you know they're perfect,
just to get them done. And yeah, so this is
a career crisis call. I am Mandy Witch of Santo's
Career Coach, hosted the Brown Ambition podcast and I'm so lucky
to be joined by the brilliant Oh I'm just getting
to know you, but I just feel like you have
the best vibe already. It's crazy how well you can
(00:42):
tell just from the internet, like digitally, but cozy sweater,
cozy knit and a cozy personality. It's just hello, It's
Emily Escival. Everybody, Hi, thank you, thank you, well welcome,
thank you, thank you for coming in your time of need.
So I understand recently you after you said decade you've
(01:06):
been working as a therapist and you just launched your
own practice.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, so like wrapping my head around that. It feels
weird too, even though it's something I always wanted. It
feels weird to finally be like, I'm the CEO of
my own private practice.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Wasn't it that? It's like that thing? I think I
might have girl bosst a little too close to the.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Sun right exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, I think that's so relatable. I mean, I know
that you mentioned imposter syndrome in your in your message,
just like I started a business, but now it's like,
oh I wake up and I'm a business owner. I
don't have a paycheck.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
That's so real.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
I think that that like hit me in a way
I didn't want it to.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
When you said, well tell me when you say that
you're yeah that you've just launched your practice. What was
that transition period?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Light?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
At what point did you decide? Was it like a
long term plan that you've said in motion or was
it like you hit your f you, which I don't
imagine you've ever said f you to anybody because you're
a delight. I'm ratchet, so I have mostly at my dog.
But anyway, you probably thought it out and didn't like
(02:24):
quit in one fell swoop. But please let me know
a little bit about you first.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, I mean I wish it was more thought out
than it was, but life happens, and like you said,
we do things imperfectly and we figure it out as
we go along.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, and we pretend like it was it was a
grand plan.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Right, And like going through school, it was always the
plan for me. I always kind of like joked, I'll
be in my own boss one day, like I'm gonna
I'm gonna like.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Own my own thing.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
And it's not that weird in the practice in the
therapy world, right, everyone everyone owns a private practice. I
shouldn't say that, but lots of people own a private
practice so they can do their own thing. So it
was always sort of this thing in my head that
I would do that one day so I could have freedom.
And then I went through one really terrible job where
(03:18):
I did come. I think it was summer of twenty
twenty when we had all had it and I had
had it at this predominantly white organization, and that was
my first sort of I can't function in work environments
like this. You'd like to think we're all therapists. We're
(03:39):
all better people.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Not the case that can tell me what.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
The gender makeup is. Emily of an office like that,
what was the gender kind of split?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
It was predominantly female one mile.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I am shocked. I am stunned. Can't you see how
surprised me? You had a toxic work environment full of
white women.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
I mean, I was gonna say, but you said it.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
You said it.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I'm allowed because I work for myself, like I worked
for myself and I exist in the world. I'm and
immediately I think about that profession being one that is
so heavily can heavily skew white and female and you
know what, and no shape, because I think like service
industries in general, like look at school teachers, you know.
But yikes, Okay, so you weren't loving it.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Wasn't loving it.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I made the move, went to a better One of
my friends says, out of the frying pan, into the fryar,
into the fire.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
What's that saying?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
What you meant?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Well, it's a better situation I moved into, but still
not the best.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
So I moved in to a group private practice where
it was getting paid a lot more, which makes a difference.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
What's the difference between a group practice and what you
were doing before that?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
It was also a group practice.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Sorry, okay, another group practice. So that's where a bunch
of therapists you kind of get together, you share resources,
but you probably bring your own clients, right.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I did share resources?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Ah yeah, okay, okay ideally yes, yes, yes, yes, gotcha.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
So I came to this new practice and I was there.
I was pretty content for a while, and then life happens,
money started getting tighter, you know, a few extenuating circumstances
with family. I ended up losing my dad in twenty
twenty three, and and that really just you know, death
(05:53):
will like click something in very quickly for you when
it happens.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
And so when I.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Lost my d I was like, I don't want.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
To work for people anymore.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Like I don't want to be bound to like submitting
PTO and people telling me I.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Can and can't do X y Z.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Like I want to be able to just like live
my life freely on my own terms, which back to
ten years ago was always the goal, right And gratefully,
he left me some money and I used that money
to say, like, okay, this is it. I don't really
have an excuse anymore. He passed in twenty twenty three,
(06:33):
in the fall of twenty twenty three, and it was
like a year later, so like last end of summer,
early fall that last year that I finally said, okay,
like I'm not out of the grieving process, but I
got to move, like we got to start kind of
doing things.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
You tell me if I'm wrong, But I would feel
a bit of pressure to do really great because you're
using the money that you know your dad set aside.
So it's money has like this emotional connection to it,
and you've got such a huge one. Do you feel
like as part of your Yeah, how do you how
do you feel about that?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Do you agree money has such a huge just like
you said, emotional tie to it, And there is this
like I want to do well. I want to do
right by him. I don't think I could ever do
wrong by him, But there's the internal pressure of like, use.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
This finite resource.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
And make it grow and make it into this beautiful thing.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
And it's like, Okay, that's a lot.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I have a lot of pressure for any one person,
and I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You don't have to say how much, but can you
give me a sense of like how many months worth
of savings you had or have and how how many
months do you have left before things? You know? Is
that a concern?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
It's not a concern, you know, because they have my
my revenue.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I have my work for my job.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
But oh good. I mean, I can't assume when you
start a business, I can't assume that you're actually making money.
But I'm glad to hear it.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
That's good, that's real.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Aahn.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Okay, you know, probably a couple of months at least left,
and we used a big portion of it to do
all the business startup be stuff.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So who's we My wife and I. That's there. Yeah,
end of last.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, end of us about six months. Then when we
say six sevenish months, almost going on a year, Okay,
tell me a little bit about what it's been, like,
how has business been, and how you mentioned revenue? How
are you doing revenue wise?
Speaker 4 (08:50):
It's scary being on your own.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I feel like everyone talks about opening a private practice,
and like in school, all of your teachers or all
my teachers has had their own practice, Like nobody tells
you how to do it.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Nobody's like, oh and here's the plan.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
That's astounding. It's so common, it's.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
So common, but I feel like there's a lot of gatekeeping,
whether intentionally or not, about like how to how to
do it, and especially for a little brown person who's
just like I don't know what. I've never run a business.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
From Emily. I'm cute as the button. I don't stress.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
I try to give that.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I'll put you in my pocket, not to infantilize. Is
that infantilize you?
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
If you were in a Shondaland series, I would root
for you. You know, I would absolutely root for you.
It's all I'm saying. You can't teach it. You can't
teach it, Okay, Okay, be serious, lady. Because we use
humor as a coping Meaca, that's why we have the
same language. We'll never get anything done, Emily. We're both
(10:16):
just laughing as the world is burning.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
What else are we gonna do? Be honest?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Right, stay lovey Okay, all right, we gotta get our ship.
This is what we gotta do. Gotta get our ship together. Okay.
Because your wife deserves date nights, and you know, whatever
you guys do with your time, you deserve nice things.
You deserve time off, et cetera. But yes, absolutely it is.
I'm current, I'm a solopreneur. I totally get it. So
(10:45):
one of the first things that I did as a
solopreneur was set a monthly income goal, monthly revenue goal
rather with my financial planner. And that can be quite intimidating.
But do you have a sense of like how much
you need to be bringing in month after month to
sort of keep the lights on?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I do, and we're hitting that. I should say, like,
what feels hard and what I would appreciate coaching on
is I want to build a like ethical sustainable group practice.
Right I know what it's like to be in ones
that are not and don't have the therapists in mind.
(11:26):
But so right now what I'm doing is like I'm working.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
With a business coach.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I just built out an offer, like a high ticket offer,
because I've hit my ceiling with individual clients. I'm like,
I can only see so many before I've got nothing
left in the tank. So we've I built out this
high ticket offer and I'm already like. The reason I
(11:51):
did it was so I could make more money to
be able to build a foundation to bring on new
therapists without having to like take all of their money
from them to run my business.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Because that's the typical model for a group practice.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Typical model is like I will hire you, but then
I'm going to take this cut, this pretty significant cut,
so that I can run my business and make.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
A profit, and I'll leave you with a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Makeake some snacks in the kitchen.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Yeah, exactly, watercore egg. And they're not telling you, like.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
What is that percentage? Typically I'm curious, So it can
be you've experienced.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
It can be sixty forty.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It can be said to them sixty to them, forty to.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
You seventy thirty and really dire dire situations.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
But it is bad.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
It's bad, and I don't feel it's fair and I
don't feel it's ethical. And so what I want to
do is build something different. I want to build a
place where therapists wants to come stay and go home
with their money. Like I just want to be in
community with some therapists and have like this sort of
(13:10):
mutual aid type thing happening.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
So I built this high ticket offer with the help
of a business coach, and.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I'm already like, well, I put it out in the world.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
And that was maybe a month ago.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Nobody bought it, therefore nobody wants it ever, And I'm
already just like walking it back of like, there's no
way you're ever gonna have this model that everyone is
telling you you literally cannot have because it's not feasible.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Because no one found supporting the practitioners and you make
money from the tangential like other revenue stream.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Right, everyone is like, Nope, it's just always done like this.
You have to take them any from the therapists to
run the business. And I'm like, just because it was
always done that way doesn't mean we have to like
keep doing.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
It that way.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, but a lot of people's bottom lines if you
start doing it this way, what's going to happen to
Sally Sue Private you know, ink or whatever? Like, Yeah,
you kind of have to at a certain point when
you're an entrepreneur, you do, especially if you're someone who's
trying to go a different direction to a certain extent,
as long as you understand the challenges and you understand
(14:31):
that there's headwinds, and you understand that the marketplace hasn't
seen it before, and you kind of get that you
don't necessarily need a bunch of other people to tell
you how impossible it is. And at that point, it's
like weed out anyone who's not on board and laser
focus on people who are going to be and then
type vibe not but them, but and okay, and how
(14:53):
are we fixed that or and how could we figure
that out? So I'm glad you found a business coach.
Tell me about the offer. You say, high ticket, high ticket.
I'm thinking like five ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Okay, it's two thousand and nine nine seven, so three parkers.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Hey, I do what the business coach tells me.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Okay, I want to know when you say you put
it into the world, what did what did that mean?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I posted it like on LinkedIn, I shared it with
some colleagues. I shared it with a few people around me.
And our homework is to get one hundred like eyes
on it and before we get to like change what
we're doing, before you get to say this didn't work,
(15:44):
you need one hundred people to like get their eyes
on it. But so I got it out to a
couple of handful of people, like five literally five over ten,
but not nearly one hundred.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
You got it to tens of people, not even tense.
You got it to fives of peoples.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
That's more accurate, okay, But.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
And nobody has said no, I mean, no one has
signed up for it. But the most common feedback I
get is that it's too high ticket, and so I
just end up spiraling right of, like.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Well, have you talked to people one on one about it?
Like do you email? How do you have a sales
call with them? What's the funnel?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Couple of people? So I've sent it, I will get
feedback like the email or hop and or hop on
a call to talk through it further.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Okay, So that's kind of the setup right now.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
And a couple of people. So you've said, I don't
I'm not mad at the numbers. I don't want to,
you know, be not trying to be condescending, but you so, like,
say ten people. Of those ten, how many converted to
like a sales call opportunity?
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Like I've four?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Okay, okay, so about half? Like that's that's I think
a decent rate to get people on the phone. I mean,
a funnel is a funnel, Like you're obviously going to
have more people that look at your offer and say
not for me than people who say this is for
me your goal and I can get into this. As
(17:22):
far as your business coach, I'm curious how much work
before you launched the offer was spent on really defining
your target customer and your and their main problems and
goals that you could be solving. Yeah, question, I know
it was a question.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
I was figuring out how to answer.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
It, honestly, what's my Honestly, I was probably supposed to
spend a lot more time than I spent on like
really getting into the weeds of an ideal client. I
went with queer BIPOC millennials because that's why I work with.
(18:04):
What comes up in our work is finances trauma around money,
and so the high ticket offer is around going deeper.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Uh, with a lot of money trauma.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Oh, so your target audience is is clients like patience.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Oh, it doesn't have to be, but it's people who
want to be curious about like their relationship with money.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
What what.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I filled in a story for myself that you were
because you wanted to launch the foundation and hire practitioners.
I told myself that you were, you know, launching and
offering for practitioners to help. Oh, so but that's that's
very different. Okay. So you're offering a tell me the
name of the offer that you have.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
It's just a VIP day offer, and it's about out
going deeper with your relationship with money, understanding your relationship
with money, why we spend the way we spend, why
we keep coming up short, and then creating a sustainable
budget and sticking to that budget for a year.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
So I'm having like the height.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
And your financial therapist. Is that your niche?
Speaker 4 (19:22):
It's where I am niche now?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Okay, Okay, So, through yeah, a lot of experience, I've
just started to be like this is.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
This excites me? I like talking about people talking to.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
People about their relationship with money and trauma with money,
and then.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
And then how to build sustainable systems.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Gotcha? Well, I first want to point out I'm really
happy that you have. You are meeting your target monthly
revenue goal, you're keeping the lights on wife's you're happy,
like you have bigger goals, right, But I think you
sort of need to use this time and treat it
as a test. You're just testing your learning, Okay, and
(20:11):
I think this was a first test, right, But as
far as like wanting it to succeed, of course we do.
But it makes sense to me that if you're starting
with a high ticket offer to start with, and there
wasn't a lot of time spent on defining your target
customer and really like getting into their needs and crafting
an offer that makes sense for them, then yeah, I
(20:31):
can see why it might be a little challenging, you know,
more so because you're creating a high ticket offer for
people who are struggling with their finances in some way,
and you know, and so that there's a bit of
like incongruity with it, some conflict there, and so I
(20:53):
think that that's that's what I'm feeling the other thing.
But that's not to say I think there are peopeople
who struggle with finances, but they will, you know, spend
a Peloton or a brand new car. I don't know
those people, but they're probably me and did it and
(21:15):
there was something that appealed to them or made them
feel like it was possible, whether it was a payment
plan or it was just such a great offer they
thought they were going to make that money back where
they could see how it was a clear investment to
spend three thousand dollars, which is the cost of like
a really nice appliance you're gonna want to get. You're
gonna want to know that it can keep your vegetables
(21:36):
frozen and it can keep your milk cold, you know,
like you want to know that I'm going to be
investing this is a fair amount of money into something
that's going to be a value. And that's our job
as business owners. We have something that we need to
sell to them, but it's our job to make sure
(21:58):
that they jump at it and they really feel like, oh,
this person gets me. They know what I need. This
is going to solve that problem. And because in this problem,
it makes sense to spend this much money to solve
it because it can X Y Z. And if you
know that price is price is obviously something that you know,
(22:22):
consumers consider when they go to purchase something. But I think,
first and foremost it's our job to really confidently and
I'll get back to that articulate what it is that
we're offering. So tell me the name of the program again.
You called it It's Emily's just a VIP day.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
It's VIP. Now I'm like blanking on the actual name.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Something about easing me a little bit because when I
asked you, you said, it's just a VIP day, where
so I think you should test out. Adding just to
the beginning of that, I could I that don't blush.
Oh my goodness, adorable human Oh man. Yeah, Like, it's
(23:12):
the confidence thing, and if you're not believing in it,
it's the same. It's the same strategy that I teach
when I teach negotiating. It's part of going into a
conversation about what you think you're worth. Is like, if
you're confident and your vibe is like, well, duh, yes,
I'm worth this and where is it at? Then the
other that affects the person's decision on the other side
(23:34):
of the table. And people don't necessarily like to hear
that because it makes them start thinking, well, what if
I don't have the right kind of charm or the
right kind of like personality or whatever it comes across
this way, work on it. You can work on it.
You can build confidence, you absolutely can. And I want
you to keep working on this offer until you can
(23:56):
really fully go into a sales call knowing that I
understand exactly where this person's coming from, and I can
explain my product and make the sale because I'm solving
their problem and you can feel really good about that.
And I don't feel like you do yet.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, I definitely still I mean you pointed out right,
it's just where inside I'm like, I know that this
offer can bring you an understanding of your relationship with
money that will have ripple effects forever.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Uh, And that's priceless. Under It's also.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
It's also not specific, you know, Yeah, it sounds really good,
but like when we talk about the language to like
really get people to make a purchase or to buy
into an offer, it's like, so specifically, what am I like, specifically,
how will this change me? And I'm not saying that
(24:57):
marketing is everything because obviously, like the actual program itself,
it should be like I'm sure you have tons to
offer in all of that, but I do think understanding
the language that you use to sell the course and
speak about the course when you're in conversation with somebody,
you're having a sales call, even if it's just like
(25:18):
you're on the phone with someone casually or even talking
to me, like, it's it's an opportunity to practice the
language around. So how much research did you do? And
maybe not much, but I when I started Mandy money Makers,
which is my it's not quite as high ticket as that.
I think the most expensive package I sold when I
(25:40):
first launched was eleven hundred dollars, which for me seemed
like a lot. And when I launched that offer, I
had spent months doing free sessions like this to figure
out one did I like it? Two was I good
at it? And three I didn't have an offer in mind.
I wanted to download all the women, and I chose
(26:03):
my target audience, which are women of color, millennial to
gen Z and I listened and I listened, and I
sort of did a lot of analyzing transcripts or taking
my notes from sessions and coming up with like what
I could tell were the main pain points that they
were dealing with, and when I went to create the offer,
(26:28):
I created the offer. I'm glad to hear that you're
targeting your patient or people like your patients, because you
already have so much, Like you've been holding sessions for
ten years, right. I think it's just a matter of
like really making sure that what your offer offers solves
(26:48):
those primary pain points and that the language you're using
to talk about the offer gets that a point gets
those points across like really really clearly.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Yeah, I think arguably that's really helpful. Thank you. That
feels like such a time and energy investment.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
That feels so overwhelming and daunting to me that I
then like psych myself out and I'm like, that's so hard.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
You know track you would take. Maybe it's not so
much about you know, talking to people anew but going
back to past notes and going back to I don't
know if you keep transcripts or is it do therapists
keep transcripts? Okay, good, I do because my brain is
(27:36):
as sieve, and I will do control f for certain words,
and then I'll go back and like, maybe it's the
word impost. I'm like, how many people said imposter, how
many people said boss or negotiate whatever, And I'll try
to find like these common threads. So maybe it doesn't
have to be like you've done a lot of that work.
Maybe the answers are already there I'm imagining. But you know,
(28:00):
you have an offer. That's great. I'm not saying to
like throw it out, but there's a there is a
bit disconnect between who you're trying to reach and they
offer itself. Either that or the ten people that you
launched it to were not your target client for whatever reason.
And if that's the case, where is your target client?
(28:20):
How old are that? You said? They're queer bipock millennials,
millennials and all the like ten people that you spoke
or pitched it to, they were all in that category. Okay,
So maybe there's another identifying factor, or maybe that's your
main funnel bucket, that's like top of the funnel. I
(28:41):
want to make sure that this core shows up wherever
queer and bipock people. I don't know if you want
to narrow you some millennials, right, I want to make
sure that this message, you know, reaches them where they are,
and then you would you know, for example, I don't
know if there's like a really famous queer BIPOC podcast
(29:02):
like or whatever anything? Is it out magazine? That's that's
the thing, right, there's a out magazine? Oh okay, yeah,
well no, but but actually yes, and you have an
in in a way that I would not. I'm not
(29:23):
a queer person. I have family who's queer, but I'm not.
I haven't lived that experience, you know, So you're that's
your superpower and it can get you through certain doors
to get to your target audience. So maybe maybe part
of your work can be Okay, how do I expand
my audience so that the number of people that I'm
(29:45):
getting this offer in front of, you know, I'm getting
a larger sample size than just like the eight to
ten you know, So getting yourself out there is definitely
one way, you know, being a guest on podcasts, talking
literally showing up live and now the kind of client
that is gonna make a high ticket purchase like that,
(30:05):
In my experience, it's not going to be their first
time meeting you. It's gonna be after some time warming
them up, you know, nurturing, they say, nurture, you know,
getting them on your list, you know, telling them about yourself,
your story, your point of view, your why, and then
dripping in, of course, valuable lessons that you can be
(30:27):
teaching them if they're already getting a lot of value
from you, from you know, I don't know if you
have a lead magnet of some kind, do you, Oh,
you don't have a lead magnet, all right, Yeah, I
think it's it's just almost as if you've you've kind
of started at the end of the sales process by
creating the thing that you want to sell. We just
(30:48):
got to go back to the beginning. Yeah, no big deal.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I have like a mindset reset, But how are people following?
How are people finding it?
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Right?
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Like?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, what is it?
Speaker 3 (31:00):
So it's you put in your email and then I
send you this free mindset reset where I walk you
through four steps of understanding your money, your relationship to money,
and doing some reframing work.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
So it gets you curious about your relationship. It's for
introspective questions. Uh. And then it gets you to a
kind of thing. It's like a PDF. Oh, you can
also preten it, but it's like a piece.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's a lead magnet. But right, and then you got
to lead people to the lead magnet.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
It can only magnet if you can like, you know,
you need a track, you know, So how are you
right now? Where are people encountering that at your website?
Speaker 4 (31:40):
On my website?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
And then I'm sending it out like I just started
sending it out to previous clients. The part of the
coaching was like, there's already people who know, like and
trust you. Why don't you send it to some of
those folks? People who've worked with.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
You and see what they'd even say.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
So right now it's really direct, like one on one
people I already know and it's on our website.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
But my website well and trying, And you said earlier
you reflected it back to me.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Right, it's been roughly like what six months, So I
have this like outdated or not outdated. I have this
like overblown proportion that I've been doing this for so
long and it's like it's been six months. Of course
you don't have it perfect.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
What are you saying?
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Right, that's why. I think the fact that you're making
money enough to sustain yourself, like you're hitting your goal
month after month, that's a huge accomplishment almost like focus
on making sure that stays the same. Cause one of
the things that I did with my whole master plan,
which is so great, is I was two years into
(32:50):
my business and then I was like, I'm i'll have
another baby and I'm going to write a book. Two
of those things are not very you know, they don't
really go well with down.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
I'm still waiting on the book.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Well, the book's happening, but you know what's suffering while
I write that book and while I am the best
mama ever, it's the business stuff. I'm not making as
much money. It's been stressful. So part of me is like, oh, yeah,
I could have maybe planned that. I mean, I think
everything happens for a reason, but I absolutely could have
suffered a lot less had I just really gotten my
(33:28):
savings more saved up, or you know, had had really
like more mature roots for my business. I think statistically
the first five years of a business is when most
female owned businesses fail, especially run by women of color.
So those first five years are really crucial. It doesn't
(33:50):
mean that I don't want you to keep that goal
in mind to launch your group practice and all of that,
but you know, it's the balance between trying new things,
as I think you should always be testing and learning,
but then keeping your core foundation of your business that's
working because you were your booking clients. That's also an
area where you want to really make sure that you
understand what are the pain points that a lot of
(34:13):
therapists are feeling, and why would they want to join
my practice and how can I solve their biggest problems?
And I bet yes, the fact that you're not going
to take seventy percent of their pay is a huge
selling point, but I'm imagining stability that whatever became toxic,
the gatekeeping about your other job, like you know, you
can solve that problem, but be in conversations with them.
(34:37):
And my last well, well it ask to be my
last question, I'm sorry, is how many friends or close
friends do you have or how how healthy is your
community of other solopreneur therapists of color? All right, it's
(34:58):
very simple community, community, community. I need you to go
find your people, and your people may not be well.
You're in Chicago. It's a big city, you know, like
you make you have to make new friends, truly, and
it's not easy because there is not so much gatekeeping.
I think that sometimes we what we perceive as gatekeeping
(35:20):
is really somebody who's embarrassed and doesn't want to let
us peek behind the curtain because they're not sure of themselves.
But when you when you start to slowly build trust
with other people doing what you're doing, there's nothing more powerful.
I think I've been aware of this other podcaster called Nikla.
She has a podcast called Side Hustle Pro. I've been
(35:42):
aware of her for years. I think over the one
was this over the Christmas holidays. We finally just randomly
were like, are you you struggling me too? You want
to be friends and now are each other's accountability buddies.
And we call once a week. And I'm not saying
(36:03):
every relationship has to go that deep, but start planting
those seeds now, because you're gonna need them when you
grow for the next three, five, ten years, fifty because
you look so young, so I'm a long time aheading you.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
You are not a long time ahead of me.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Well you know, I'm also the spring chicken. Thank you, Emily,
Thanks so much. Thanks for being so great. I really
hope this was helpful. Make sure that we stay connected.
Ad me on LinkedIn, you know, let me know how
things are going.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Likewise, thank you, bye bye
All right, everybody, welcome. I have been doing. This is
my fourth career crisis call. And if you are like, wait,
this is a career crisis call, just stay with me.
Just look at me, don't look at anybody else. Don't
Forget what I said yesterday. Forget what I called it
a couple of days. Forget what it Forget it, forget
she's gone now, the woman who invented it, she's a
new person.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We reinvent ourselves. We do things before you know they're perfect,
just to get them done. And yeah, so this is
a career crisis call. I am Mandy Witch of Santo's
Career Coach, hosted the Brown Ambition podcast and I'm so lucky
to be joined by the brilliant Oh I'm just getting
to know you, but I just feel like you have
the best vibe already. It's crazy how well you can
(00:42):
tell just from the internet, like digitally, but cozy sweater,
cozy knit and a cozy personality. It's just hello, It's
Emily Escival. Everybody, Hi, thank you, thank you, well welcome,
thank you, thank you for coming in your time of need.
So I understand recently you after you said decade you've
(01:06):
been working as a therapist and you just launched your
own practice.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, so like wrapping my head around that. It feels
weird too, even though it's something I always wanted. It
feels weird to finally be like, I'm the CEO of
my own private practice.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Wasn't it that? It's like that thing? I think I
might have girl bosst a little too close to the.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Sun right exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, I think that's so relatable. I mean, I know
that you mentioned imposter syndrome in your in your message,
just like I started a business, but now it's like,
oh I wake up and I'm a business owner. I
don't have a paycheck.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
That's so real.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
I think that that like hit me in a way
I didn't want it to.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
When you said, well tell me when you say that
you're yeah that you've just launched your practice. What was
that transition period?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Light?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
At what point did you decide? Was it like a
long term plan that you've said in motion or was
it like you hit your f you, which I don't
imagine you've ever said f you to anybody because you're
a delight. I'm ratchet, so I have mostly at my dog.
But anyway, you probably thought it out and didn't like
(02:24):
quit in one fell swoop. But please let me know
a little bit about you first.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, I mean I wish it was more thought out
than it was, but life happens, and like you said,
we do things imperfectly and we figure it out as
we go along.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, and we pretend like it was it was a
grand plan.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Right, And like going through school, it was always the
plan for me. I always kind of like joked, I'll
be in my own boss one day, like I'm gonna
I'm gonna like.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Own my own thing.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
And it's not that weird in the practice in the
therapy world, right, everyone everyone owns a private practice. I
shouldn't say that, but lots of people own a private
practice so they can do their own thing. So it
was always sort of this thing in my head that
I would do that one day so I could have freedom.
And then I went through one really terrible job where
(03:18):
I did come. I think it was summer of twenty
twenty when we had all had it and I had
had it at this predominantly white organization, and that was
my first sort of I can't function in work environments
like this. You'd like to think we're all therapists. We're
(03:39):
all better people.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Not the case that can tell me what.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
The gender makeup is. Emily of an office like that,
what was the gender kind of split?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
It was predominantly female one mile.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I am shocked. I am stunned. Can't you see how
surprised me? You had a toxic work environment full of
white women.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
I mean, I was gonna say, but you said it.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
You said it.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I'm allowed because I work for myself, like I worked
for myself and I exist in the world. I'm and
immediately I think about that profession being one that is
so heavily can heavily skew white and female and you
know what, and no shape, because I think like service
industries in general, like look at school teachers, you know.
But yikes, Okay, so you weren't loving it.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Wasn't loving it.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I made the move, went to a better One of
my friends says, out of the frying pan, into the fryar,
into the fire.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
What's that saying?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
What you meant?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Well, it's a better situation I moved into, but still
not the best.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
So I moved in to a group private practice where
it was getting paid a lot more, which makes a difference.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
What's the difference between a group practice and what you
were doing before that?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
It was also a group practice.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Sorry, okay, another group practice. So that's where a bunch
of therapists you kind of get together, you share resources,
but you probably bring your own clients, right.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I did share resources?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Ah yeah, okay, okay ideally yes, yes, yes, yes, gotcha.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
So I came to this new practice and I was there.
I was pretty content for a while, and then life happens,
money started getting tighter, you know, a few extenuating circumstances
with family. I ended up losing my dad in twenty
twenty three, and and that really just you know, death
(05:53):
will like click something in very quickly for you when
it happens.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
And so when I.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Lost my d I was like, I don't want.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
To work for people anymore.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Like I don't want to be bound to like submitting
PTO and people telling me I.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Can and can't do X y Z.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Like I want to be able to just like live
my life freely on my own terms, which back to
ten years ago was always the goal, right And gratefully,
he left me some money and I used that money
to say, like, okay, this is it. I don't really
have an excuse anymore. He passed in twenty twenty three,
(06:33):
in the fall of twenty twenty three, and it was
like a year later, so like last end of summer,
early fall that last year that I finally said, okay,
like I'm not out of the grieving process, but I
got to move, like we got to start kind of
doing things.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
You tell me if I'm wrong, But I would feel
a bit of pressure to do really great because you're
using the money that you know your dad set aside.
So it's money has like this emotional connection to it,
and you've got such a huge one. Do you feel
like as part of your Yeah, how do you how
do you feel about that?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Do you agree money has such a huge just like
you said, emotional tie to it, And there is this
like I want to do well. I want to do
right by him. I don't think I could ever do
wrong by him, But there's the internal pressure of like, use.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
This finite resource.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
And make it grow and make it into this beautiful thing.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
And it's like, Okay, that's a lot.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I have a lot of pressure for any one person,
and I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You don't have to say how much, but can you
give me a sense of like how many months worth
of savings you had or have and how how many
months do you have left before things? You know? Is
that a concern?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
It's not a concern, you know, because they have my
my revenue.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I have my work for my job.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
But oh good. I mean, I can't assume when you
start a business, I can't assume that you're actually making money.
But I'm glad to hear it.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
That's good, that's real.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Aahn.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Okay, you know, probably a couple of months at least left,
and we used a big portion of it to do
all the business startup be stuff.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So who's we My wife and I. That's there. Yeah,
end of last.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, end of us about six months. Then when we
say six sevenish months, almost going on a year, Okay,
tell me a little bit about what it's been, like,
how has business been, and how you mentioned revenue? How
are you doing revenue wise?
Speaker 4 (08:50):
It's scary being on your own.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I feel like everyone talks about opening a private practice,
and like in school, all of your teachers or all
my teachers has had their own practice, Like nobody tells
you how to do it.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Nobody's like, oh and here's the plan.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
That's astounding. It's so common, it's.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
So common, but I feel like there's a lot of gatekeeping,
whether intentionally or not, about like how to how to
do it, and especially for a little brown person who's
just like I don't know what. I've never run a business.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
From Emily. I'm cute as the button. I don't stress.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
I try to give that.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I'll put you in my pocket, not to infantilize. Is
that infantilize you?
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
If you were in a Shondaland series, I would root
for you. You know, I would absolutely root for you.
It's all I'm saying. You can't teach it. You can't
teach it, Okay, Okay, be serious, lady. Because we use
humor as a coping Meaca, that's why we have the
same language. We'll never get anything done, Emily. We're both
(10:16):
just laughing as the world is burning.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
What else are we gonna do? Be honest?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Right, stay lovey Okay, all right, we gotta get our ship.
This is what we gotta do. Gotta get our ship together. Okay.
Because your wife deserves date nights, and you know, whatever
you guys do with your time, you deserve nice things.
You deserve time off, et cetera. But yes, absolutely it is.
I'm current, I'm a solopreneur. I totally get it. So
(10:45):
one of the first things that I did as a
solopreneur was set a monthly income goal, monthly revenue goal
rather with my financial planner. And that can be quite intimidating.
But do you have a sense of like how much
you need to be bringing in month after month to
sort of keep the lights on?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I do, and we're hitting that. I should say, like,
what feels hard and what I would appreciate coaching on
is I want to build a like ethical sustainable group practice.
Right I know what it's like to be in ones
that are not and don't have the therapists in mind.
(11:26):
But so right now what I'm doing is like I'm working.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
With a business coach.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I just built out an offer, like a high ticket offer,
because I've hit my ceiling with individual clients. I'm like,
I can only see so many before I've got nothing
left in the tank. So we've I built out this
high ticket offer and I'm already like. The reason I
(11:51):
did it was so I could make more money to
be able to build a foundation to bring on new
therapists without having to like take all of their money
from them to run my business.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Because that's the typical model for a group practice.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Typical model is like I will hire you, but then
I'm going to take this cut, this pretty significant cut,
so that I can run my business and make.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
A profit, and I'll leave you with a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Makeake some snacks in the kitchen.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Yeah, exactly, watercore egg. And they're not telling you, like.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
What is that percentage? Typically I'm curious, So it can
be you've experienced.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
It can be sixty forty.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It can be said to them sixty to them, forty to.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
You seventy thirty and really dire dire situations.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
But it is bad.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
It's bad, and I don't feel it's fair and I
don't feel it's ethical. And so what I want to
do is build something different. I want to build a
place where therapists wants to come stay and go home
with their money. Like I just want to be in
community with some therapists and have like this sort of
(13:10):
mutual aid type thing happening.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
So I built this high ticket offer with the help
of a business coach, and.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I'm already like, well, I put it out in the world.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
And that was maybe a month ago.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Nobody bought it, therefore nobody wants it ever, And I'm
already just like walking it back of like, there's no
way you're ever gonna have this model that everyone is
telling you you literally cannot have because it's not feasible.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Because no one found supporting the practitioners and you make
money from the tangential like other revenue stream.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Right, everyone is like, Nope, it's just always done like this.
You have to take them any from the therapists to
run the business. And I'm like, just because it was
always done that way doesn't mean we have to like
keep doing.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
It that way.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, but a lot of people's bottom lines if you
start doing it this way, what's going to happen to
Sally Sue Private you know, ink or whatever? Like, Yeah,
you kind of have to at a certain point when
you're an entrepreneur, you do, especially if you're someone who's
trying to go a different direction to a certain extent,
as long as you understand the challenges and you understand
(14:31):
that there's headwinds, and you understand that the marketplace hasn't
seen it before, and you kind of get that you
don't necessarily need a bunch of other people to tell
you how impossible it is. And at that point, it's
like weed out anyone who's not on board and laser
focus on people who are going to be and then
type vibe not but them, but and okay, and how
(14:53):
are we fixed that or and how could we figure
that out? So I'm glad you found a business coach.
Tell me about the offer. You say, high ticket, high ticket.
I'm thinking like five ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Okay, it's two thousand and nine nine seven, so three parkers.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Hey, I do what the business coach tells me.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Okay, I want to know when you say you put
it into the world, what did what did that mean?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I posted it like on LinkedIn, I shared it with
some colleagues. I shared it with a few people around me.
And our homework is to get one hundred like eyes
on it and before we get to like change what
we're doing, before you get to say this didn't work,
(15:44):
you need one hundred people to like get their eyes
on it. But so I got it out to a
couple of handful of people, like five literally five over ten,
but not nearly one hundred.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
You got it to tens of people, not even tense.
You got it to fives of peoples.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
That's more accurate, okay, But.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
And nobody has said no, I mean, no one has
signed up for it. But the most common feedback I
get is that it's too high ticket, and so I
just end up spiraling right of, like.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Well, have you talked to people one on one about it?
Like do you email? How do you have a sales
call with them? What's the funnel?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Couple of people? So I've sent it, I will get
feedback like the email or hop and or hop on
a call to talk through it further.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Okay, So that's kind of the setup right now.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
And a couple of people. So you've said, I don't
I'm not mad at the numbers. I don't want to,
you know, be not trying to be condescending, but you so, like,
say ten people. Of those ten, how many converted to
like a sales call opportunity?
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Like I've four?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Okay, okay, so about half? Like that's that's I think
a decent rate to get people on the phone. I mean,
a funnel is a funnel, Like you're obviously going to
have more people that look at your offer and say
not for me than people who say this is for
me your goal and I can get into this. As
(17:22):
far as your business coach, I'm curious how much work
before you launched the offer was spent on really defining
your target customer and your and their main problems and
goals that you could be solving. Yeah, question, I know
it was a question.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
I was figuring out how to answer.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
It, honestly, what's my Honestly, I was probably supposed to
spend a lot more time than I spent on like
really getting into the weeds of an ideal client. I
went with queer BIPOC millennials because that's why I work with.
(18:04):
What comes up in our work is finances trauma around money,
and so the high ticket offer is around going deeper.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Uh, with a lot of money trauma.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Oh, so your target audience is is clients like patience.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Oh, it doesn't have to be, but it's people who
want to be curious about like their relationship with money.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
What what.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I filled in a story for myself that you were
because you wanted to launch the foundation and hire practitioners.
I told myself that you were, you know, launching and
offering for practitioners to help. Oh, so but that's that's
very different. Okay. So you're offering a tell me the
name of the offer that you have.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
It's just a VIP day offer, and it's about out
going deeper with your relationship with money, understanding your relationship
with money, why we spend the way we spend, why
we keep coming up short, and then creating a sustainable
budget and sticking to that budget for a year.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
So I'm having like the height.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
And your financial therapist. Is that your niche?
Speaker 4 (19:22):
It's where I am niche now?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Okay, Okay, So, through yeah, a lot of experience, I've
just started to be like this is.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
This excites me? I like talking about people talking to.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
People about their relationship with money and trauma with money,
and then.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
And then how to build sustainable systems.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Gotcha? Well, I first want to point out I'm really
happy that you have. You are meeting your target monthly
revenue goal, you're keeping the lights on wife's you're happy,
like you have bigger goals, right, But I think you
sort of need to use this time and treat it
as a test. You're just testing your learning, Okay, and
(20:11):
I think this was a first test, right, But as
far as like wanting it to succeed, of course we do.
But it makes sense to me that if you're starting
with a high ticket offer to start with, and there
wasn't a lot of time spent on defining your target
customer and really like getting into their needs and crafting
an offer that makes sense for them, then yeah, I
(20:31):
can see why it might be a little challenging, you know,
more so because you're creating a high ticket offer for
people who are struggling with their finances in some way,
and you know, and so that there's a bit of
like incongruity with it, some conflict there, and so I
(20:53):
think that that's that's what I'm feeling the other thing.
But that's not to say I think there are peopeople
who struggle with finances, but they will, you know, spend
a Peloton or a brand new car. I don't know
those people, but they're probably me and did it and
(21:15):
there was something that appealed to them or made them
feel like it was possible, whether it was a payment
plan or it was just such a great offer they
thought they were going to make that money back where
they could see how it was a clear investment to
spend three thousand dollars, which is the cost of like
a really nice appliance you're gonna want to get. You're
gonna want to know that it can keep your vegetables
(21:36):
frozen and it can keep your milk cold, you know,
like you want to know that I'm going to be
investing this is a fair amount of money into something
that's going to be a value. And that's our job
as business owners. We have something that we need to
sell to them, but it's our job to make sure
(21:58):
that they jump at it and they really feel like, oh,
this person gets me. They know what I need. This
is going to solve that problem. And because in this problem,
it makes sense to spend this much money to solve
it because it can X Y Z. And if you
know that price is price is obviously something that you know,
(22:22):
consumers consider when they go to purchase something. But I think,
first and foremost it's our job to really confidently and
I'll get back to that articulate what it is that
we're offering. So tell me the name of the program again.
You called it It's Emily's just a VIP day.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
It's VIP. Now I'm like blanking on the actual name.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Something about easing me a little bit because when I
asked you, you said, it's just a VIP day, where
so I think you should test out. Adding just to
the beginning of that, I could I that don't blush.
Oh my goodness, adorable human Oh man. Yeah, Like, it's
(23:12):
the confidence thing, and if you're not believing in it,
it's the same. It's the same strategy that I teach
when I teach negotiating. It's part of going into a
conversation about what you think you're worth. Is like, if
you're confident and your vibe is like, well, duh, yes,
I'm worth this and where is it at? Then the
other that affects the person's decision on the other side
(23:34):
of the table. And people don't necessarily like to hear
that because it makes them start thinking, well, what if
I don't have the right kind of charm or the
right kind of like personality or whatever it comes across
this way, work on it. You can work on it.
You can build confidence, you absolutely can. And I want
you to keep working on this offer until you can
(23:56):
really fully go into a sales call knowing that I
understand exactly where this person's coming from, and I can
explain my product and make the sale because I'm solving
their problem and you can feel really good about that.
And I don't feel like you do yet.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, I definitely still I mean you pointed out right,
it's just where inside I'm like, I know that this
offer can bring you an understanding of your relationship with
money that will have ripple effects forever.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Uh, And that's priceless. Under It's also.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
It's also not specific, you know, Yeah, it sounds really good,
but like when we talk about the language to like
really get people to make a purchase or to buy
into an offer, it's like, so specifically, what am I like, specifically,
how will this change me? And I'm not saying that
(24:57):
marketing is everything because obviously, like the actual program itself,
it should be like I'm sure you have tons to
offer in all of that, but I do think understanding
the language that you use to sell the course and
speak about the course when you're in conversation with somebody,
you're having a sales call, even if it's just like
(25:18):
you're on the phone with someone casually or even talking
to me, like, it's it's an opportunity to practice the
language around. So how much research did you do? And
maybe not much, but I when I started Mandy money Makers,
which is my it's not quite as high ticket as that.
I think the most expensive package I sold when I
(25:40):
first launched was eleven hundred dollars, which for me seemed
like a lot. And when I launched that offer, I
had spent months doing free sessions like this to figure
out one did I like it? Two was I good
at it? And three I didn't have an offer in mind.
I wanted to download all the women, and I chose
(26:03):
my target audience, which are women of color, millennial to
gen Z and I listened and I listened, and I
sort of did a lot of analyzing transcripts or taking
my notes from sessions and coming up with like what
I could tell were the main pain points that they
were dealing with, and when I went to create the offer,
(26:28):
I created the offer. I'm glad to hear that you're
targeting your patient or people like your patients, because you
already have so much, Like you've been holding sessions for
ten years, right. I think it's just a matter of
like really making sure that what your offer offers solves
(26:48):
those primary pain points and that the language you're using
to talk about the offer gets that a point gets
those points across like really really clearly.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Yeah, I think arguably that's really helpful. Thank you. That
feels like such a time and energy investment.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
That feels so overwhelming and daunting to me that I
then like psych myself out and I'm like, that's so hard.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
You know track you would take. Maybe it's not so
much about you know, talking to people anew but going
back to past notes and going back to I don't
know if you keep transcripts or is it do therapists
keep transcripts? Okay, good, I do because my brain is
(27:36):
as sieve, and I will do control f for certain words,
and then I'll go back and like, maybe it's the
word impost. I'm like, how many people said imposter, how
many people said boss or negotiate whatever, And I'll try
to find like these common threads. So maybe it doesn't
have to be like you've done a lot of that work.
Maybe the answers are already there I'm imagining. But you know,
(28:00):
you have an offer. That's great. I'm not saying to
like throw it out, but there's a there is a
bit disconnect between who you're trying to reach and they
offer itself. Either that or the ten people that you
launched it to were not your target client for whatever reason.
And if that's the case, where is your target client?
(28:20):
How old are that? You said? They're queer bipock millennials,
millennials and all the like ten people that you spoke
or pitched it to, they were all in that category. Okay,
So maybe there's another identifying factor, or maybe that's your
main funnel bucket, that's like top of the funnel. I
(28:41):
want to make sure that this core shows up wherever
queer and bipock people. I don't know if you want
to narrow you some millennials, right, I want to make
sure that this message, you know, reaches them where they are,
and then you would you know, for example, I don't
know if there's like a really famous queer BIPOC podcast
(29:02):
like or whatever anything? Is it out magazine? That's that's
the thing, right, there's a out magazine? Oh okay, yeah,
well no, but but actually yes, and you have an
in in a way that I would not. I'm not
(29:23):
a queer person. I have family who's queer, but I'm not.
I haven't lived that experience, you know, So you're that's
your superpower and it can get you through certain doors
to get to your target audience. So maybe maybe part
of your work can be Okay, how do I expand
my audience so that the number of people that I'm
(29:45):
getting this offer in front of, you know, I'm getting
a larger sample size than just like the eight to
ten you know, So getting yourself out there is definitely
one way, you know, being a guest on podcasts, talking
literally showing up live and now the kind of client
that is gonna make a high ticket purchase like that,
(30:05):
In my experience, it's not going to be their first
time meeting you. It's gonna be after some time warming
them up, you know, nurturing, they say, nurture, you know,
getting them on your list, you know, telling them about yourself,
your story, your point of view, your why, and then
dripping in, of course, valuable lessons that you can be
(30:27):
teaching them if they're already getting a lot of value
from you, from you know, I don't know if you
have a lead magnet of some kind, do you, Oh,
you don't have a lead magnet, all right, Yeah, I
think it's it's just almost as if you've you've kind
of started at the end of the sales process by
creating the thing that you want to sell. We just
(30:48):
got to go back to the beginning. Yeah, no big deal.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I have like a mindset reset, But how are people following?
How are people finding it?
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Right?
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Like?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, what is it?
Speaker 3 (31:00):
So it's you put in your email and then I
send you this free mindset reset where I walk you
through four steps of understanding your money, your relationship to money,
and doing some reframing work.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
So it gets you curious about your relationship. It's for
introspective questions. Uh. And then it gets you to a
kind of thing. It's like a PDF. Oh, you can
also preten it, but it's like a piece.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
It's a lead magnet. But right, and then you got
to lead people to the lead magnet.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
It can only magnet if you can like, you know,
you need a track, you know, So how are you
right now? Where are people encountering that at your website?
Speaker 4 (31:40):
On my website?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
And then I'm sending it out like I just started
sending it out to previous clients. The part of the
coaching was like, there's already people who know, like and
trust you. Why don't you send it to some of
those folks? People who've worked with.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
You and see what they'd even say.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
So right now it's really direct, like one on one
people I already know and it's on our website.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
But my website well and trying, And you said earlier
you reflected it back to me.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Right, it's been roughly like what six months, So I
have this like outdated or not outdated. I have this
like overblown proportion that I've been doing this for so
long and it's like it's been six months. Of course
you don't have it perfect.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
What are you saying?
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Right, that's why. I think the fact that you're making
money enough to sustain yourself, like you're hitting your goal
month after month, that's a huge accomplishment almost like focus
on making sure that stays the same. Cause one of
the things that I did with my whole master plan,
which is so great, is I was two years into
(32:50):
my business and then I was like, I'm i'll have
another baby and I'm going to write a book. Two
of those things are not very you know, they don't
really go well with down.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
I'm still waiting on the book.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Well, the book's happening, but you know what's suffering while
I write that book and while I am the best
mama ever, it's the business stuff. I'm not making as
much money. It's been stressful. So part of me is like, oh, yeah,
I could have maybe planned that. I mean, I think
everything happens for a reason, but I absolutely could have
suffered a lot less had I just really gotten my
(33:28):
savings more saved up, or you know, had had really
like more mature roots for my business. I think statistically
the first five years of a business is when most
female owned businesses fail, especially run by women of color.
So those first five years are really crucial. It doesn't
(33:50):
mean that I don't want you to keep that goal
in mind to launch your group practice and all of that,
but you know, it's the balance between trying new things,
as I think you should always be testing and learning,
but then keeping your core foundation of your business that's
working because you were your booking clients. That's also an
area where you want to really make sure that you
understand what are the pain points that a lot of
(34:13):
therapists are feeling, and why would they want to join
my practice and how can I solve their biggest problems?
And I bet yes, the fact that you're not going
to take seventy percent of their pay is a huge
selling point, but I'm imagining stability that whatever became toxic,
the gatekeeping about your other job, like you know, you
can solve that problem, but be in conversations with them.
(34:37):
And my last well, well it ask to be my
last question, I'm sorry, is how many friends or close
friends do you have or how how healthy is your
community of other solopreneur therapists of color? All right, it's
(34:58):
very simple community, community, community. I need you to go
find your people, and your people may not be well.
You're in Chicago. It's a big city, you know, like
you make you have to make new friends, truly, and
it's not easy because there is not so much gatekeeping.
I think that sometimes we what we perceive as gatekeeping
(35:20):
is really somebody who's embarrassed and doesn't want to let
us peek behind the curtain because they're not sure of themselves.
But when you when you start to slowly build trust
with other people doing what you're doing, there's nothing more powerful.
I think I've been aware of this other podcaster called Nikla.
She has a podcast called Side Hustle Pro. I've been
(35:42):
aware of her for years. I think over the one
was this over the Christmas holidays. We finally just randomly
were like, are you you struggling me too? You want
to be friends and now are each other's accountability buddies.
And we call once a week. And I'm not saying
(36:03):
every relationship has to go that deep, but start planting
those seeds now, because you're gonna need them when you
grow for the next three, five, ten years, fifty because
you look so young, so I'm a long time aheading you.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
You are not a long time ahead of me.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Well you know, I'm also the spring chicken. Thank you, Emily,
Thanks so much. Thanks for being so great. I really
hope this was helpful. Make sure that we stay connected.
Ad me on LinkedIn, you know, let me know how
things are going.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Likewise, thank you, bye bye
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