April 18, 2025 • 38 mins
This week, we’re sitting down with Raye Shurice, an amazing member of the MandiMoney Makers community, who went from juggling two jobs to landing a major salary bump and leveling up her entire career. She’s breaking down her journey, from tough interviews to tough decisions, and how community, clarity, and confidence helped her boss up and get what she deserved.
We’re also digging into one of the trickiest parts of the professional world: salary negotiation especially when you're trying to level up within the same company. Sound familiar? We got you.
From figuring out your market value to knowing how to leverage that next offer (yes, even in nonprofits!), we’re talking strategy, self-worth, and how to have the conversation without losing your cool.
Plus: We’re sharing real-world scripts, role-play tips, and ways to make sure your PTO, bonuses, and benefits get the same love as your paycheck.
If you’ve ever second-guessed your ask, struggled to advocate for your worth, or just needed that push to go after more—this episode is your reminder: You can do this, and you deserve every bit of it.
Links + Resources:
📲 Follow on Raye Instagram - @raye.shurice
🎙️ Stay connected with Brown Ambition → @brownambitionpodcast
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I am the host of the brandan Mbision podcast Mandy
Windrif Santos, and I haven't done this since gosh. When
I first started to do coaching, I offered free sessions
on my ig Ooh, my microphone is all the way
over here.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hello? Is that better? I got excited, gosh. I started
doing free sessions back in twenty twenty one. Ray, were
you one of those free sessions? I was stop, wow,
look at us now and look at her just showing
up for my freebies every time because we are back
(00:43):
at the time though I listen, I did. I had
two hundred people sign up to the Google form on
ig for free sessions. I think one hundred of them
actually ended up booking. And then for the next six
months I was doing those free sessions and I'm so
glad that, you know, I'm so glad that I did that,
and it was it was my way of figuring out,
(01:03):
like do I even like this? Am I even good
at this? And it kicked off my whole business. And
one of the things that happens when you're like listen
up kids and Ray, you know, because you got a
baby girl. One of the things that happens when you
go and have a baby or two and then you
have a business and you're trying to work on a
book and run a coaching community, is that you don't
(01:24):
have as much time to do one on one sessions anymore.
One It's not like and every business, like literally every
business coach will tell me, don't do free sessions. What
are you doing? You shouldn't even be trying to do
one on ones anymore. It should all be scalable, scale, scale, scale,
And I'm all for the scaling, but I'm also all
(01:44):
for staying in tune with what y'all are going through
in your work lives. Ray, I feel like you have
evolved so much since you first joined the Mandy money
Makers in twenty twenty one, twenty two, and I'm so
proud of you, and it just is I'm glad that
you were. You were so quick on the sign up
button for this free session.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Me too. I needed your advice because you're amazing and
I am acquin something. So I'm like I'm taking advantage
right now.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Sign yes, all right, Okay, So I mean just to
catch everybody up on Ray from what I'll tell you
what I what I know, which is that when you
joined you were working for a big retailer and you
were you weren't a recruiter, but you were like tangential
to the recruiting. You worked in like a software side, okay,
and then you gotcha and then you joined the Makers
(02:39):
and you wanted to You wanted to actually get into
a recruiting level up, level up, which you did, and
then that job was that the job where you got
the big First of all, you got into a recruiting
opportunity and then you got the big rays at that time.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
So actually, let's back up a bit, right. So I
did the free coaching session, and you told me that
I wanted to do too many things at once, and.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Then I needed to it sounds like me.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Because I wanted to do a podcast, I wanted to
get a promotion, make more money, start a business, like
all the things you tell me. I needed to focus.
And then I'm like, okay, well I'm focusing on earning
more money because if I can earn more money, then
I can do more things, right. And so I did
your free session and then you offered your first cohort
(03:26):
of coaching. I did that and invested in myself to
do that, and that put me in a room around
a whole bunch of boss babes, wonderful women working at
the Googles, the Microsoft's, all the things. And when one
of the sessions was like someone said, oh yeah, my
salary requirements is two seventy five a year, I was like, oh,
(03:48):
my aim is way too low, way too low. I
was barely making forty K that year. I think I
made it fifty K with two jobs. So that told
you everything you needed to know.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
And so, yeah, you had two jobs.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I had bombed an interview. Do you remember that.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Girl? Now we're doing let's not don't pop quizzes, but
I had.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I had a recruiting interview with him.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
There was never a dull moment, That's what I remember.
There was never a.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Horrible I like bombed it, and I was so disappointed.
Was oh my gosh, like you know, but I kept going.
And then I landed a role that paid double salary.
Now you can pick up.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
And that was a couple of years ago. And then
was there a layoff somewhere in there?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Ninety days into that new role.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I got laid off, Yes, and then you fired me
as your coach.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
No, you did it now came back to my support community,
and I was like, I don't know what to do,
and you guys are like, take a minute, take a day,
take a couple.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
It took like two days, and then I got on
LinkedIn and started all over.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
With the title now of recruiter or whatever the title was, which, yeah,
was what got you? You know, you were able to
then get another role because you already had that title
even though it was only ninety days, right, And then
what happened, So it's a good story.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, And so I got laid off after ninety days
with that role. That was the first time in my
life I ever like could work one job and that
cover all my expenses, like all the things, right, and
I like just had made it and I had to
start back over. So I started back over, started interviewing
all the things. I had two opportunities. So my boss
(05:34):
at that previous company had also that had gotten laid
off two weeks after me. She circled the block because
I was such a great employee and wanted to bring
me back on to her new company that she had
just got a promotion or a role in as the
director of talent acquisition. And so I had that option
on the table, but it would have been starting off
(05:55):
as a contractor. My negotiation power was limited because she
knew what I made previously, so she only was offering
two K more. And then it kind of was like
a little bit of bad juju because the person that
she was replacing in the role didn't know they were
getting fired.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
So even though it was a light lift, Oh so
you would have come in to someone who was getting fired.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Replacing the head who was getting fired, and they didn't
know yet. So when she brought me on, like what's
going to bring me on? I only had an interview once,
but it would have been contracted because she needs to
get in, get her feet wet, and then transfer me
to PERM and I just didn't know what that would
look like and my negotiation power was limited. So then
(06:42):
I had this other opportunity on the table, and it
was working for a nonprofit doing amazing work like great mission,
and I was able to negotiate a twelve K bomb.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
From what you were making at the other firm that
laid you off. Yes, amazing chef's cass. Okay, but bring
up now we're here today and now you are angling
for promotion.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yes, So fast forward two and a half years, I
am now up. Well, the caveat to this whole story
is that I am currently interviewing and have gone through
the final rounds of interviews for this director level role
I'm currently I started out as a manager. So in
(07:24):
the midst of interviewing for this director level role, I
get notified that I got a promotion to be senior
manager and I'm like, so we're just getting promotions before
the second promotion to promotions and what could ask So
this would.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Have been two steps up because at your firm, it's
like you're what a manager now and then senior and
then director.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
No, so it's like they make it's like levels of creativity.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So listen, a lot of places are like that. It
can be good for So.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Depending on what you're on one, yeah, it could be manager,
senior manager, associate director, director, senior director. And this is
a director role. Not every team has a senior manager
level or an associated director level. So I'm going from
what I thought was a manager to a director, but
(08:19):
now it's senior manager to director.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Okay, got it. And so that promotion went through when
so I.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Just went through the final rounds of interviews, So we
are putting in manifesting that I get the promotion and
just preparing for that negotiation conversation.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Oh, to clarify, I meant the promotion that you found
out about while you were interviewing.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Oh, that one went into effect at the end of January.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Okay, and you've already been in the interview, so you've
been interviewing to be on the same team. But take
that director role.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yes, And news is that I've already stepped up in
that position because we were short staff so there was
an expectation to do that role. Prior to me going out,
I had a baby going out on leave, like, hey,
we need to step up here. Okay, I'll step up.
(09:13):
Then I came back from leave and continued in that
same vein leading partnerships because we were still short staffed,
and then we were able to, like a couple months
after that, bring on team members, help train them, transition them,
and then go back to my normal role.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Okay, alrighty, So heading into this internal role, you're hoping
you'll get an offer, and your question is how do
I negotiate more?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Right, Because I've done a little bit of research as
it pertains to like previous employees or like people who
may have been in the role on the team and
know like what the salary was.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Around reading between the lines. That means that you asked
other people right what they were earning. I love that.
And no, that's just perfect. And Hi to everybody who's
tuning in online. I see Annas in the chat right now.
Hi Anna, if you're here, tune in, say hello, Hi.
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, so I asked, and I have like a general
understanding of what the role would start at, but no
great information.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And how far apart is that from what you're earning now?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
It's like a fifteen K or more bomb.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
It's not terrible, that's not that much. I mean, it's
you know, it's not like a fifty K bump, you know.
I know it's quick, quick math, but do you know
what the percentages? Like what percentage raise that might be.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I can do the math really quick.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
If it's less than fifteen percent, you can just say
that you gotta put all your business out there. But
if it's less than fifteen, and certainly it's less than ten,
there's usually like that much wiggle room in a compensation budget.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Okay, so it'll be about starting around fifteen percent bump
and more okay where I land in that range, but
that's assuming that's the starting range.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Second question, when you were promoted in January, did you
get a bump then.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yes, six percent from where I was previously? Well, because
there was a two and a half percent annual and
then six percent on top of that, so technically eight and.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
A half okay, and then oktcha.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Now this will be an additional fifteen.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
If you get what you want right.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Well, I mean it's like should I even see? This
is where the anxiety and all the things come in, because.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
It's like, no ask the question. Can I even ask.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That audacious to like want another fifteen percent? Should I
take the ten percent? If they've lowered the range? Like
where do I come in at that? So I'm trying
to like that's why I need you for it? It like
help me with this confidence.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And then well you're in. It's interesting because so yesterday's
a lunch and level up with Lakeisha and Lakeisha is
also in a situation where she is at her current firm.
She uh has taken on a new role and they
have said this is a lateral move, so no raise
for you here's your three percent annual inflation whatever. And
(12:25):
she's a little bit you know, stuck at that, and
she knows that she should be making more. And in
your situation, it's it's you have a bit more going
for you, which is that you were recently promoted. They
love you. You've been doing the job already, right, they
really like you. You've been there for two and a
half years, right, something like that. And I mean, listen,
(12:46):
nothing is going to give you as much leverage as
a competing offer that you can put in front of them,
like cold hard fact. I have been offered, you know,
let's say it's one twenty, that's what you're aiming for.
I've been offered one twenty at this firm. I would
love to stay, but can you match that comp Can
you match me at the compensation? And then it's an
easy decision. Happy to stay. Heyba fam, we got to
(13:09):
take a quick break, pay some bills and we'll be
right back. However, your market research is still completely I mean,
and by market research, you know, getting that information from
former colleagues and kind of looking at the job market
other comparable titles, and have you done any work to
kind of see what other ranges are online? Or has
(13:31):
this job even posted online? And do they have a
rage range listed with the job description?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
They did not have a range list, but they did
post externally.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So failing that, I would say you.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Can about nonprofit sector as well, because that's always the
caveat is always like or the understanding is that you're
not ever going to get industry standard Rates's.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
See, they benefit from that, you know. How do you
know how I feel about nonprofits? I feel like I've
said it a lot, but nonprofits to me are the
fact that it's a nonprofit. I don't nego. I don't
recommend anyone negotiates any differently for a nonprofit versus a
for profit, because if you look at the nuts and
bolts of it, they are the same. Like the tax
structure is different, right, there's tax benefits as a non well, shit,
(14:19):
there's there's tax benefits for for profits too. They're very similar, right,
talk about how much taxes is Amazon paid Jeff Bezos
zero datas, Let's just go buy more Amazon trucks and
you know that'll decrease our taxable income. I digress. Nonprofits
do get away in the same way that I think
government jobs, teachers, even like healthcare jobs to a certain extent,
(14:42):
get away with this sense of like moral compensation, like
you're doing good work here, we're a nonprofit so and
they have this aura and then this myth kind of
proliferates about there's not that much budget and oh, da
da da, you know, like we can't afford to pay
certain things. Come work for us and feel good about yourself.
(15:02):
But the thing is they can be just as toxic
as regular jobs. They can be disorganized, they can be capitalistic.
They got to raise money, right, So I just not
to harp on that too much, but I just want
to change mindset around what nonprofits can afford. And at
the end of the day, they're like any other company,
and if they really want to keep talent, they'll keep talent.
(15:24):
And even if they have to post their you know,
salaries to what's that document called that nonprofits have to file.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Oh, I don't know what the name of it.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Some tax form. Yeah, they may have like they may
need to post that and whatnot. But I'm just saying
I want you to walk in there not thinking about
it's a nonprofit, they probably can't afford this, and just
go in based on what you're worth, you know, so
based on what you've learned so far. And oh yeah,
that's what I was going to say, any data research
(15:54):
into comparable roles, like in the same industry, have you
looked on glass or other job listings. You're doing it
right now, that's fine, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
The hard car two is that even though it would
be a director position, it's still an individual contributor.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Okay. So some people would say that's great.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, many people the average salary would be that fifteen percent.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Okay, So you feel like you're in the right yeah,
the right marketplace. And so far in your interviews, has
compensation come up? No, so you're expecting what like when
you get the offer, we'll just manifest that that then
you'll have a conversation about comp right, okay. And at
that point, and this is your boss, I you're interviewing
(17:01):
with one of.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Them, one of I reviewed. I did phone screen with
the TA of the company. Then I did the interview
with my boss, who I work with closely, and then
I did a panel interview with some peers, some who
(17:23):
I may have worked with and some who I may
have not. And then the last round was with my
boss's boss, who equally knows me.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Okay, you went through the ringer, m hm, and how
much time? Amazing. You know, I'm not really opposed to
asking about compensation during the interview process, especially if you're
an external candidate. I don't I don't like the feeling
of waiting until the final offer to find out what compensation.
The fact of the matter is, I think that they
(17:57):
will go low in terms of the pay raise you
just got one. They'll use that as justification. Now I
need you to go in with your counter argument, which is,
this is a new role. I've already been doing it
for free for how many months now.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
At least like five six?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Oh lord, so for half a year I have been
doing the work of a director. I appreciate the title change,
and that's wonderful, But to fully step into this role
and feel confident that I'm being paid my market value
and that I am you know, that I'm being valued
equitable to what other companies or other organizations pay at
this level. I was expecting, or I am expecting, you know,
(18:39):
a fair market rate, which based on my research is
one fifteen to one twenty or whatever you want to say.
And if they you know at that point you want
to role play a little bit like you want to
for ten, who do you want to be? Do you
want to be you? Or do you want to be
the I don't know employer? You want to be the employer? Okay?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Me?
Speaker 1 (19:05):
All right, I'm adorable. My name is Ray. Everyone loves me. Hi,
just getting in your zone, getting in the vibe. All right?
So how would it be? Would it be a phone call?
Zoom like this? Yes, you in person are remote.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Well away from home. But I think, honestly, I think
they're gonna email me and maybe be presented in a call.
But I think they'll try to like email first, you.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Know, let's really okay, I'm mad at that. Then okay,
so you get the email. So let's pretend Okay, I'm
Ray and I've just gotten this email and it's like, Ray, congratulations.
What's that?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
It's probably gonna come from talent acquisition.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Right, and it's going to say, congratulations, we are happy
to inform me that you have been selected. I don't
know the languages you've gotten the job se see offer
details below. And then it will say let's say they
let's say it's no increase. Let's say they're like, we
just gave you a raise, here's your same salary. If
(20:11):
that's the case, I'm pissed. I'm right, and I'm pissed
because like, not y'all trying to get a steep, steep discount.
The thing is as if they're looking at external candidates,
which they likely are, right they've posted it externally. If
they're looking at external candidates, it's quite possible that those
external candidates are going to be more expensive than you
are because they are coming from other companies. And at
(20:34):
that point, your company knows what you're making. Your company
doesn't know what they're making. And I'm not saying that
they would be going for you because you are the
more affordable option. I'm sure they are choosing you because
or sorry, choosing me because I'm amazing. But that just
tells you off jump that they are trying to skate
(20:54):
by without paying the proper market rate. So if that's
an email, I'm stewing, I'm stewing, and then I'm replying,
and I'm going to ask for time timeframe, Oh for
how long I'm going to stew ten minutes? Not long,
(21:14):
because all you're going to do now is I was
send an email back and say thank you so much.
I am thrilled. How quickly can make it on a
phone call to discuss the offer and where you can
say that however you want to take, I prefer to
do a compensation negotiation by phone. I think that you're
able to I'm all about vibes, right, and when you
(21:35):
come into a conversation with the right energy when you're
coming to them. And this is where as women we
have to like we do get penalized for being seen
as power hungry, money hungry, you know, ambitious, opportunistic, and
I believe in a phone call you're able to get
your tone as and it shouldn't be this way, but
this is a reality. I believe that we're able to
(21:56):
be really intentional with our tone and how we are perceived.
You can be the same ray that they know and
that they you know, feel comfortable with, but you can
still get to the point of what you want, which
is I'm still ray. I'm still this And by the way,
the offer to me is low compared to the market
research I've done to better understand the value of this role.
(22:18):
And I want to know, is it possible that you
can meet me at the market range, which is one
fifteen to one twenty. You've got them on the phone.
At that point, we're not really role playing anymore. Should
we should we go into role play?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Yeah, But one caveat that you can use as a
tool in your toolkit is that I'm pretty sure my
peers in the same position would be making more so
maybe that is not.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
In the same position. So your current colleagues and other
like on.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
The same team director level colleagues. So I don't know
how you would be able to pull that information in.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
But but oh gotcha, I wouldn't like I at this point.
I not that there's anything wrong with you getting that
information from current employees. There's nothing wrong with that, But I.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Feel like denying if I got that.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
No, you're gonna say based on my based on my
own research from trusted sources as well as you know,
general market research, like and you can have some examples,
like you can pull up that glass store as an example.
You can pull up comparable job titles like literally job descriptions.
You know, they have to publish salary ranges in other states,
(23:28):
So New York, I know that you're you're in You're
in the South, and they may write or no, you're
back up in the Pennsylvania. That's right, Pennsylvania, so even
better because New York is not that far so they
can't pull the hole. That's New York. But you could
get a couple of salaries and have that as your
market research plus glass store and just have it in
(23:49):
your back pocket in case they asked to see it,
which I don't think. I don't know if they will
or not, but anyway, you know that. And the reason
I'm like being a bit cautious there is because it
goes back to like the tone and the feeling you,
at least in my experience, you get more flies with
honey in a way, and you don't want to put
them on like the defensive defensive and start making them
(24:11):
feel paranoid about well, who she's spoken to? Was it
so and so? Was it so and so? And also
there may be not that I'm saying it's justifiable. There
may be different circumstances to why those colleagues are earning
a certain amount, And if you bring them up, then
it's very easy for them to just like, you know,
dismiss that with like a couple of excuses, Oh so
(24:34):
and so it's been here longer. Oh so, and so
you know, excuse me, it's a unique case. They came
from a different company, they have this many years of experience,
they have this certification, and then they start like, you know,
like nitpicking, and next thing you know, you haven't really
gotten anywhere. So I would keep it broad.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So based on what I say, let's have the conversation.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Hey, ba fam, we got to take a quick break. Hey,
some bills and we'll be right back. Welcome back, be
a fan, Let's get back to the show. Okay, So
this is the call that you get on the phone
after the offer comes through email. Okay, Hey George, George Georgia.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, hi, Dogeri, how are you doing?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Damn this I was today years old when I knew
you pronounced it dogeray.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I think I told you on that first free session
and then never came up a game.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Well, it's always right to me. We're cool like that.
It's right, okay, all right, Hey, it's so listen. I'm
so excited. I can't believe it. I can't wait. I've
been doing this job for six months. It just feels
so right to me. I mean, what was the feedback
from the team from the interview process.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
The team had nothing but great things to say about you.
They said that, you know, you're a great contributor on
the team already, you already have experience being successful within
that rule and those responsibilities, and they're just super super
excited to like, have you join within this new capacity.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Oh, I mean, I again, I'm really excited. I've I'm
so passionate about the work. I mean, I'm glad to
hear that they have acknowledged and seen how hard I've
been working for the past you know, five six months,
and this just feels like such a great next up
for me. So I, yeah, I would love to accept,
but before I get there, I want to chat about
(26:30):
the offer. So I saw the offer come through, and
I and we're going to assume that it's we're keeping
the compensations the same, Okay. So I have to admit
I was a little bit surprised and taking it back
by the compensation offer, you know, the for the for
the level of work that I'd be doing in this
role and the fact that I've been already been doing
it for you know, five six months now, and honestly
(26:53):
based on the market research that I've done for a
director level position in our field at comparable organizations incomparable roles,
this is far below the market rate for this position.
And I, with all due respect, like, I am so
excited for this role. I want to I want to
take it on. I want to keep this momentum going.
(27:14):
But I don't really feel settled. I don't really feel
good about, you know, moving forward if I don't feel
like I am being paid commensurate with my market rate.
So is there anything you can do to get me
closer to the market range, which based on my research
is about one fifteen to one.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
So that's a yes, thank you. Bye, I'm just kidding,
don't do that. You can do that depends on your rapport.
I like cracking a joke.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
So yeah, we can definitely take it back to the
team and see, you know, what is possible based on
the budget and so forth, and I can get back
to you.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I can, okay, yeah, I really appreciate response. You'll get
back to you, and then they'll go, do do you
think in that case? I was expecting you to almost
push back and say, well, you know, given the fact
that you were recently promoted, we thought that keeping you
at this level was fair for now, and then we
could look at we could look at potentially increasing that,
getting you closer to that, you know, your goal, your
(28:22):
target compensation goal, maybe in a year.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
So if they said that, what would you say.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
That's okay, Well, now I'm playing both roles, that's fine,
I'm used to it, I would say, I, yeah, I
completely understand, And honestly I was thrilled, and yeah, pleasantly
I was pleasantly surprised. I want to say surprised. I was.
I was really pleased, surprised.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Surprise, yes, but really I.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Was actually you know, I yeah, I was surprised and
pleasantly so that I received that promotion in Jenny. But
the fact of the matter is that I have been
doing the director level position responsibilities and duties for five
months now, and so leaving aside the reason promotion, I
think bringing me up to that director level title and
compensation that has always been my long term goal. I
(29:15):
feel like it is what I you know, am, That's
how I should be valued. And I think it absolutely
reflects the amount of goodwill that I've had, you know,
showing up and putting my all into this role for
the last five months, even though I was, you know,
doing the work of an individual a couple of levels
and certainly a higher compensation level than I am, And
(29:36):
to wait a year, it just doesn't feel like that
really is reflecting the value I've already brought and the
value I'll continue to bring for the next year.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Okay, well we'll take that back to the team and
I'll get back.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Okay, you look good. Did you something with your hair?
This is different?
Speaker 4 (29:53):
High?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah, I'm high.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Your teeth whitened? How are the kids? You want to
put a picture of your baby up in the background?
Speaker 5 (30:02):
Just you know, Oh yeah, I'm prepared to, like, you know,
reiterate value contributed in future value.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
That is clear. But I'm still, like, you know, just
a little antsy about it.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
A good problem to have, That's a good problem to have.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, I agree, Like, who gets multiple promotions within one quarter? Like,
you know, who's catching up? So is catching up?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
I think you've done so well for yourself, I really do.
I'm trying to think of other, you know, other potential outcomes.
So I mean, how do you feel about the responding
to an email asking for a phone call? Do you
think they'll do that?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
I'm hoping say better.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I just think it's so much better on the phone.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Especially when you have because usually offers are given on
the phone. Now that I think about it, that you
we call like hey, just letting you know that we
would like to extend the offer. Yeah, here's now. What
do you think as far as negotiations of other items
within the benefits package? So?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Oh, good call? What what else do you have going
on there?
Speaker 3 (31:14):
What else they got PTO?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Okay? What what PTO do you have?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Like number of days like four weeks? Okay, So I
don't know if that'll bump or not, but just you know,
I don't know if that's something to include if they like,
don't come all the way with the salary? Should we
talk one time bonuses like all that?
Speaker 1 (31:39):
So when you got your promotion, did your annual target bonus?
Do you still to the percentage target bonus? Oh you
don't Okay, no bonus at all? Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I know, like thinking about negotiations from the external side
of things, you can like bring those items in. So
I just didn't know from an internal stance, like what
can you use?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Well, you have you have a leg up here because
you already know what packages look like right. I mean, also,
you're in the recruiting space, do you have line of
sight into other candidates offers at all? No? Okay, I
mean not candidates for this role, but in general no.
So so compensation package, I think you have to decide
(32:25):
what's your end goal. I think for you it's the cash, right,
Like you want the when you think of total compensation
and you're thinking of one to fifteen one fifteen base
is what you're thinking, right, m So I would make
that clear. Now, they don't offer annual bonuses, so I
don't know how they would make anything up with a bonus.
They could do potentially a spot bonus. You have they
(32:48):
done that before? Have you heard about other people getting it.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
For like performance evaluation type situations and like that.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
That's what I thought, Maybe that could be a potential.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Oh that's good. So you don't have like a set
percentage that you are on target to earn like in
terms of a bonus. But they are known to do
it if it's been a good they're a good performer,
and there's money in the the bank for that. Okay, Yeah,
I mean they could make up any gap. Like so,
let's say they're a hard line like, no, this is
the salary approved for the role for this year, which
(33:19):
does me doesn't make any sense because if they were
trying to hire someone outside, they would have to have
a budget big enough to meet that market rate. You know, so,
but anyway, let's just say they're like, no, this is
the final Then you could say, then you could yes,
you could counter and ask for a one time bonus
to close the gap, and then let's revisit it in
you know, the next review cycle.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
And do you get that in writing, like the whole
revisit review cycle piece, or do you just faces in writing.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I'm trying to think if they could put that in writing, Yeah,
you could.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
They probably won't put it in the in the email
or your employee contract, but you could get them to
say it in an email. You could be like, well,
does this all can? I just wanted to clarify I
will be able to like, there's an understanding that you know,
next review review cycle compensation will be a compensation increase
a market rate increase rather a market rate increase will
(34:14):
be on the table or up for discussion. Then you
can have them say that in an email.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, yeah, well I guess we'll there go, So what happens.
I'm expecting to hear something maybe in a week or so.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I could use a good negotiation outcome. You've been good
to me so far. You always have like a nice update.
Even when you're down, you're up at the end of
the day, you know, down in a market like this,
I just want other people to know that it's still
possible to negotiate. And I think the challenge is, like
you said, it's that nerves. It's do I do I
(34:53):
have the audacity? Should I be asking for this? But
hell yes? I mean you know, based on your own research,
what you're earning now is not the market rate for
the job you will be doing. And so what if
you're not managing people? The level of expectation, the visibility
within the company, the demand for your role like that
should be what comes to the forefront, not how many
(35:15):
people are you managing. Yeah, I'm good luck, Girly, thank you,
and thank y'all for tuning in, and Ray, thank you
for joining me. Good luck girl. I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Heyb a fam, What name is Zoo and my mama?
Ha a update?
Speaker 1 (35:41):
That's right, Rio, Hey ba fam, I'm back with a
quick update on this week's QA from Ray, I am
so excited, y'all. I'm gonna let her fill y'all in
on her job update, and I'm going to go back
to enjoying my spring break quote unquote vacation with my
children on a road trip to Atlanta. Bye him, Mandy.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I am thrilled to share some life changing news. I
just accepted the director's talent placement role and get this,
it was a twenty five K bump in my salary,
Like I cannot believe it. I'm ecstatic. I thank God
for just bringing me here and just allowing all of
(36:25):
the things that you've taught us through the Maker's Community,
leveraging my own recruiter experience, and really just doing the thing,
Like can you believe? Just three years ago, I felt
like I was stuck on my hamster wheel, barely making
fifty K, working two jobs, feeling overworked, underpaid, overwhelmed. And
(36:46):
then you know, you just fast forward joining the Maker's Community,
and now in three years, I have tripled my income,
purchased my first home, and just well on my way
to achieving financial freedom and multi generational wealth. And I
wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you, Mandy and
the Maker's community. So just thank you so much for
(37:08):
the support and the encouragement and the space to show
up and be heard and seen, regardless of what was
going on in my life at that time. So just
thank you, thank you, thank you. And this is just
the beginning. I know more is coming and I just
can't wait to just share all of the great news.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Have a wonderful day, okayva fan, thank you so much
for listening to this week's show. I want to shout
out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our
fearless leader for idea to launch productions. I want to
shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for
helping me put the show together. It is not a
(37:51):
one person project, as much as I have tried to
make it so these past ten years. I need help, y'all,
and thank Goodness been able to put this team around
me to support me on this journey. And to y'all,
ba fam, I love you so so so so much.
Please rate, review, subscribe, make sure you sign up to
the newsletter to get all the latest updates on upcoming episodes.
(38:14):
Our tenth year anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time,
talk to you soon via bye.
Hey, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I am the host of the brandan Mbision podcast Mandy
Windrif Santos, and I haven't done this since gosh. When
I first started to do coaching, I offered free sessions
on my ig Ooh, my microphone is all the way
over here.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hello? Is that better? I got excited, gosh. I started
doing free sessions back in twenty twenty one. Ray, were
you one of those free sessions? I was stop, wow,
look at us now and look at her just showing
up for my freebies every time because we are back
(00:43):
at the time though I listen, I did. I had
two hundred people sign up to the Google form on
ig for free sessions. I think one hundred of them
actually ended up booking. And then for the next six
months I was doing those free sessions and I'm so
glad that, you know, I'm so glad that I did that,
and it was it was my way of figuring out,
(01:03):
like do I even like this? Am I even good
at this? And it kicked off my whole business. And
one of the things that happens when you're like listen
up kids and Ray, you know, because you got a
baby girl. One of the things that happens when you
go and have a baby or two and then you
have a business and you're trying to work on a
book and run a coaching community, is that you don't
(01:24):
have as much time to do one on one sessions anymore.
One It's not like and every business, like literally every
business coach will tell me, don't do free sessions. What
are you doing? You shouldn't even be trying to do
one on ones anymore. It should all be scalable, scale, scale, scale,
And I'm all for the scaling, but I'm also all
(01:44):
for staying in tune with what y'all are going through
in your work lives. Ray, I feel like you have
evolved so much since you first joined the Mandy money
Makers in twenty twenty one, twenty two, and I'm so
proud of you, and it just is I'm glad that
you were. You were so quick on the sign up
button for this free session.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Me too. I needed your advice because you're amazing and
I am acquin something. So I'm like I'm taking advantage
right now.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Sign yes, all right, Okay, So I mean just to
catch everybody up on Ray from what I'll tell you
what I what I know, which is that when you
joined you were working for a big retailer and you
were you weren't a recruiter, but you were like tangential
to the recruiting. You worked in like a software side, okay,
and then you gotcha and then you joined the Makers
(02:39):
and you wanted to You wanted to actually get into
a recruiting level up, level up, which you did, and
then that job was that the job where you got
the big First of all, you got into a recruiting
opportunity and then you got the big rays at that time.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
So actually, let's back up a bit, right. So I
did the free coaching session, and you told me that
I wanted to do too many things at once, and.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Then I needed to it sounds like me.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Because I wanted to do a podcast, I wanted to
get a promotion, make more money, start a business, like
all the things you tell me. I needed to focus.
And then I'm like, okay, well I'm focusing on earning
more money because if I can earn more money, then
I can do more things, right. And so I did
your free session and then you offered your first cohort
(03:26):
of coaching. I did that and invested in myself to
do that, and that put me in a room around
a whole bunch of boss babes, wonderful women working at
the Googles, the Microsoft's, all the things. And when one
of the sessions was like someone said, oh yeah, my
salary requirements is two seventy five a year, I was like, oh,
(03:48):
my aim is way too low, way too low. I
was barely making forty K that year. I think I
made it fifty K with two jobs. So that told
you everything you needed to know.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
And so, yeah, you had two jobs.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I had bombed an interview. Do you remember that.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Girl? Now we're doing let's not don't pop quizzes, but
I had.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I had a recruiting interview with him.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
There was never a dull moment, That's what I remember.
There was never a.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Horrible I like bombed it, and I was so disappointed.
Was oh my gosh, like you know, but I kept going.
And then I landed a role that paid double salary.
Now you can pick up.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
And that was a couple of years ago. And then
was there a layoff somewhere in there?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Ninety days into that new role.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I got laid off, Yes, and then you fired me
as your coach.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
No, you did it now came back to my support community,
and I was like, I don't know what to do,
and you guys are like, take a minute, take a day,
take a couple.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
It took like two days, and then I got on
LinkedIn and started all over.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
With the title now of recruiter or whatever the title was, which, yeah,
was what got you? You know, you were able to
then get another role because you already had that title
even though it was only ninety days, right, And then
what happened, So it's a good story.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, And so I got laid off after ninety days
with that role. That was the first time in my
life I ever like could work one job and that
cover all my expenses, like all the things, right, and
I like just had made it and I had to
start back over. So I started back over, started interviewing
all the things. I had two opportunities. So my boss
(05:34):
at that previous company had also that had gotten laid
off two weeks after me. She circled the block because
I was such a great employee and wanted to bring
me back on to her new company that she had
just got a promotion or a role in as the
director of talent acquisition. And so I had that option
on the table, but it would have been starting off
(05:55):
as a contractor. My negotiation power was limited because she
knew what I made previously, so she only was offering
two K more. And then it kind of was like
a little bit of bad juju because the person that
she was replacing in the role didn't know they were
getting fired.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
So even though it was a light lift, Oh so
you would have come in to someone who was getting fired.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Replacing the head who was getting fired, and they didn't
know yet. So when she brought me on, like what's
going to bring me on? I only had an interview once,
but it would have been contracted because she needs to
get in, get her feet wet, and then transfer me
to PERM and I just didn't know what that would
look like and my negotiation power was limited. So then
(06:42):
I had this other opportunity on the table, and it
was working for a nonprofit doing amazing work like great mission,
and I was able to negotiate a twelve K bomb.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
From what you were making at the other firm that
laid you off. Yes, amazing chef's cass. Okay, but bring
up now we're here today and now you are angling
for promotion.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yes, So fast forward two and a half years, I
am now up. Well, the caveat to this whole story
is that I am currently interviewing and have gone through
the final rounds of interviews for this director level role
I'm currently I started out as a manager. So in
(07:24):
the midst of interviewing for this director level role, I
get notified that I got a promotion to be senior
manager and I'm like, so we're just getting promotions before
the second promotion to promotions and what could ask So
this would.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Have been two steps up because at your firm, it's
like you're what a manager now and then senior and
then director.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
No, so it's like they make it's like levels of creativity.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So listen, a lot of places are like that. It
can be good for So.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Depending on what you're on one, yeah, it could be manager,
senior manager, associate director, director, senior director. And this is
a director role. Not every team has a senior manager
level or an associated director level. So I'm going from
what I thought was a manager to a director, but
(08:19):
now it's senior manager to director.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Okay, got it. And so that promotion went through when
so I.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Just went through the final rounds of interviews, So we
are putting in manifesting that I get the promotion and
just preparing for that negotiation conversation.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Oh, to clarify, I meant the promotion that you found
out about while you were interviewing.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Oh, that one went into effect at the end of January.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Okay, and you've already been in the interview, so you've
been interviewing to be on the same team. But take
that director role.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yes, And news is that I've already stepped up in
that position because we were short staff so there was
an expectation to do that role. Prior to me going out,
I had a baby going out on leave, like, hey,
we need to step up here. Okay, I'll step up.
(09:13):
Then I came back from leave and continued in that
same vein leading partnerships because we were still short staffed,
and then we were able to, like a couple months
after that, bring on team members, help train them, transition them,
and then go back to my normal role.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Okay, alrighty, So heading into this internal role, you're hoping
you'll get an offer, and your question is how do
I negotiate more?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Right, Because I've done a little bit of research as
it pertains to like previous employees or like people who
may have been in the role on the team and
know like what the salary was.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Around reading between the lines. That means that you asked
other people right what they were earning. I love that.
And no, that's just perfect. And Hi to everybody who's
tuning in online. I see Annas in the chat right now.
Hi Anna, if you're here, tune in, say hello, Hi.
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, so I asked, and I have like a general
understanding of what the role would start at, but no
great information.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And how far apart is that from what you're earning now?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
It's like a fifteen K or more bomb.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
It's not terrible, that's not that much. I mean, it's
you know, it's not like a fifty K bump, you know.
I know it's quick, quick math, but do you know
what the percentages? Like what percentage raise that might be.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I can do the math really quick.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
If it's less than fifteen percent, you can just say
that you gotta put all your business out there. But
if it's less than fifteen, and certainly it's less than ten,
there's usually like that much wiggle room in a compensation budget.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Okay, so it'll be about starting around fifteen percent bump
and more okay where I land in that range, but
that's assuming that's the starting range.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Second question, when you were promoted in January, did you
get a bump then.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yes, six percent from where I was previously? Well, because
there was a two and a half percent annual and
then six percent on top of that, so technically eight and.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
A half okay, and then oktcha.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Now this will be an additional fifteen.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
If you get what you want right.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Well, I mean it's like should I even see? This
is where the anxiety and all the things come in, because.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
It's like, no ask the question. Can I even ask.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That audacious to like want another fifteen percent? Should I
take the ten percent? If they've lowered the range? Like
where do I come in at that? So I'm trying
to like that's why I need you for it? It like
help me with this confidence.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And then well you're in. It's interesting because so yesterday's
a lunch and level up with Lakeisha and Lakeisha is
also in a situation where she is at her current firm.
She uh has taken on a new role and they
have said this is a lateral move, so no raise
for you here's your three percent annual inflation whatever. And
(12:25):
she's a little bit you know, stuck at that, and
she knows that she should be making more. And in
your situation, it's it's you have a bit more going
for you, which is that you were recently promoted. They
love you. You've been doing the job already, right, they
really like you. You've been there for two and a
half years, right, something like that. And I mean, listen,
(12:46):
nothing is going to give you as much leverage as
a competing offer that you can put in front of them,
like cold hard fact. I have been offered, you know,
let's say it's one twenty, that's what you're aiming for.
I've been offered one twenty at this firm. I would
love to stay, but can you match that comp Can
you match me at the compensation? And then it's an
easy decision. Happy to stay. Heyba fam, we got to
(13:09):
take a quick break, pay some bills and we'll be
right back. However, your market research is still completely I mean,
and by market research, you know, getting that information from
former colleagues and kind of looking at the job market
other comparable titles, and have you done any work to
kind of see what other ranges are online? Or has
(13:31):
this job even posted online? And do they have a
rage range listed with the job description?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
They did not have a range list, but they did
post externally.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So failing that, I would say you.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Can about nonprofit sector as well, because that's always the
caveat is always like or the understanding is that you're
not ever going to get industry standard Rates's.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
See, they benefit from that, you know. How do you
know how I feel about nonprofits? I feel like I've
said it a lot, but nonprofits to me are the
fact that it's a nonprofit. I don't nego. I don't
recommend anyone negotiates any differently for a nonprofit versus a
for profit, because if you look at the nuts and
bolts of it, they are the same. Like the tax
structure is different, right, there's tax benefits as a non well, shit,
(14:19):
there's there's tax benefits for for profits too. They're very similar, right,
talk about how much taxes is Amazon paid Jeff Bezos
zero datas, Let's just go buy more Amazon trucks and
you know that'll decrease our taxable income. I digress. Nonprofits
do get away in the same way that I think
government jobs, teachers, even like healthcare jobs to a certain extent,
(14:42):
get away with this sense of like moral compensation, like
you're doing good work here, we're a nonprofit so and
they have this aura and then this myth kind of
proliferates about there's not that much budget and oh, da
da da, you know, like we can't afford to pay
certain things. Come work for us and feel good about yourself.
(15:02):
But the thing is they can be just as toxic
as regular jobs. They can be disorganized, they can be capitalistic.
They got to raise money, right, So I just not
to harp on that too much, but I just want
to change mindset around what nonprofits can afford. And at
the end of the day, they're like any other company,
and if they really want to keep talent, they'll keep talent.
(15:24):
And even if they have to post their you know,
salaries to what's that document called that nonprofits have to file.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Oh, I don't know what the name of it.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Some tax form. Yeah, they may have like they may
need to post that and whatnot. But I'm just saying
I want you to walk in there not thinking about
it's a nonprofit, they probably can't afford this, and just
go in based on what you're worth, you know, so
based on what you've learned so far. And oh yeah,
that's what I was going to say, any data research
(15:54):
into comparable roles, like in the same industry, have you
looked on glass or other job listings. You're doing it
right now, that's fine, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
The hard car two is that even though it would
be a director position, it's still an individual contributor.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Okay. So some people would say that's great.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, many people the average salary would be that fifteen percent.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Okay, So you feel like you're in the right yeah,
the right marketplace. And so far in your interviews, has
compensation come up? No, so you're expecting what like when
you get the offer, we'll just manifest that that then
you'll have a conversation about comp right, okay. And at
that point, and this is your boss, I you're interviewing
(17:01):
with one of.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Them, one of I reviewed. I did phone screen with
the TA of the company. Then I did the interview
with my boss, who I work with closely, and then
I did a panel interview with some peers, some who
(17:23):
I may have worked with and some who I may
have not. And then the last round was with my
boss's boss, who equally knows me.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Okay, you went through the ringer, m hm, and how
much time? Amazing. You know, I'm not really opposed to
asking about compensation during the interview process, especially if you're
an external candidate. I don't I don't like the feeling
of waiting until the final offer to find out what compensation.
The fact of the matter is, I think that they
(17:57):
will go low in terms of the pay raise you
just got one. They'll use that as justification. Now I
need you to go in with your counter argument, which is,
this is a new role. I've already been doing it
for free for how many months now.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
At least like five six?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Oh lord, so for half a year I have been
doing the work of a director. I appreciate the title change,
and that's wonderful, But to fully step into this role
and feel confident that I'm being paid my market value
and that I am you know, that I'm being valued
equitable to what other companies or other organizations pay at
this level. I was expecting, or I am expecting, you know,
(18:39):
a fair market rate, which based on my research is
one fifteen to one twenty or whatever you want to say.
And if they you know at that point you want
to role play a little bit like you want to
for ten, who do you want to be? Do you
want to be you? Or do you want to be
the I don't know employer? You want to be the employer? Okay?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Me?
Speaker 1 (19:05):
All right, I'm adorable. My name is Ray. Everyone loves me. Hi,
just getting in your zone, getting in the vibe. All right?
So how would it be? Would it be a phone call?
Zoom like this? Yes, you in person are remote.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Well away from home. But I think, honestly, I think
they're gonna email me and maybe be presented in a call.
But I think they'll try to like email first, you.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Know, let's really okay, I'm mad at that. Then okay,
so you get the email. So let's pretend Okay, I'm
Ray and I've just gotten this email and it's like, Ray, congratulations.
What's that?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
It's probably gonna come from talent acquisition.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Right, and it's going to say, congratulations, we are happy
to inform me that you have been selected. I don't
know the languages you've gotten the job se see offer
details below. And then it will say let's say they
let's say it's no increase. Let's say they're like, we
just gave you a raise, here's your same salary. If
(20:11):
that's the case, I'm pissed. I'm right, and I'm pissed
because like, not y'all trying to get a steep, steep discount.
The thing is as if they're looking at external candidates,
which they likely are, right they've posted it externally. If
they're looking at external candidates, it's quite possible that those
external candidates are going to be more expensive than you
are because they are coming from other companies. And at
(20:34):
that point, your company knows what you're making. Your company
doesn't know what they're making. And I'm not saying that
they would be going for you because you are the
more affordable option. I'm sure they are choosing you because
or sorry, choosing me because I'm amazing. But that just
tells you off jump that they are trying to skate
(20:54):
by without paying the proper market rate. So if that's
an email, I'm stewing, I'm stewing, and then I'm replying,
and I'm going to ask for time timeframe, Oh for
how long I'm going to stew ten minutes? Not long,
(21:14):
because all you're going to do now is I was
send an email back and say thank you so much.
I am thrilled. How quickly can make it on a
phone call to discuss the offer and where you can
say that however you want to take, I prefer to
do a compensation negotiation by phone. I think that you're
able to I'm all about vibes, right, and when you
(21:35):
come into a conversation with the right energy when you're
coming to them. And this is where as women we
have to like we do get penalized for being seen
as power hungry, money hungry, you know, ambitious, opportunistic, and
I believe in a phone call you're able to get
your tone as and it shouldn't be this way, but
this is a reality. I believe that we're able to
(21:56):
be really intentional with our tone and how we are perceived.
You can be the same ray that they know and
that they you know, feel comfortable with, but you can
still get to the point of what you want, which
is I'm still ray. I'm still this And by the way,
the offer to me is low compared to the market
research I've done to better understand the value of this role.
(22:18):
And I want to know, is it possible that you
can meet me at the market range, which is one
fifteen to one twenty. You've got them on the phone.
At that point, we're not really role playing anymore. Should
we should we go into role play?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Yeah, But one caveat that you can use as a
tool in your toolkit is that I'm pretty sure my
peers in the same position would be making more so
maybe that is not.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
In the same position. So your current colleagues and other
like on.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
The same team director level colleagues. So I don't know
how you would be able to pull that information in.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
But but oh gotcha, I wouldn't like I at this point.
I not that there's anything wrong with you getting that
information from current employees. There's nothing wrong with that, But I.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Feel like denying if I got that.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
No, you're gonna say based on my based on my
own research from trusted sources as well as you know,
general market research, like and you can have some examples,
like you can pull up that glass store as an example.
You can pull up comparable job titles like literally job descriptions.
You know, they have to publish salary ranges in other states,
(23:28):
So New York, I know that you're you're in You're
in the South, and they may write or no, you're
back up in the Pennsylvania. That's right, Pennsylvania, so even
better because New York is not that far so they
can't pull the hole. That's New York. But you could
get a couple of salaries and have that as your
market research plus glass store and just have it in
(23:49):
your back pocket in case they asked to see it,
which I don't think. I don't know if they will
or not, but anyway, you know that. And the reason
I'm like being a bit cautious there is because it
goes back to like the tone and the feeling you,
at least in my experience, you get more flies with
honey in a way, and you don't want to put
them on like the defensive defensive and start making them
(24:11):
feel paranoid about well, who she's spoken to? Was it
so and so? Was it so and so? And also
there may be not that I'm saying it's justifiable. There
may be different circumstances to why those colleagues are earning
a certain amount, And if you bring them up, then
it's very easy for them to just like, you know,
dismiss that with like a couple of excuses, Oh so
(24:34):
and so it's been here longer. Oh so, and so
you know, excuse me, it's a unique case. They came
from a different company, they have this many years of experience,
they have this certification, and then they start like, you know,
like nitpicking, and next thing you know, you haven't really
gotten anywhere. So I would keep it broad.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So based on what I say, let's have the conversation.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Hey, ba fam, we got to take a quick break. Hey,
some bills and we'll be right back. Welcome back, be
a fan, Let's get back to the show. Okay, So
this is the call that you get on the phone
after the offer comes through email. Okay, Hey George, George Georgia.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, hi, Dogeri, how are you doing?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Damn this I was today years old when I knew
you pronounced it dogeray.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I think I told you on that first free session
and then never came up a game.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Well, it's always right to me. We're cool like that.
It's right, okay, all right, Hey, it's so listen. I'm
so excited. I can't believe it. I can't wait. I've
been doing this job for six months. It just feels
so right to me. I mean, what was the feedback
from the team from the interview process.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
The team had nothing but great things to say about you.
They said that, you know, you're a great contributor on
the team already, you already have experience being successful within
that rule and those responsibilities, and they're just super super
excited to like, have you join within this new capacity.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Oh, I mean, I again, I'm really excited. I've I'm
so passionate about the work. I mean, I'm glad to
hear that they have acknowledged and seen how hard I've
been working for the past you know, five six months,
and this just feels like such a great next up
for me. So I, yeah, I would love to accept,
but before I get there, I want to chat about
(26:30):
the offer. So I saw the offer come through, and
I and we're going to assume that it's we're keeping
the compensations the same, Okay. So I have to admit
I was a little bit surprised and taking it back
by the compensation offer, you know, the for the for
the level of work that I'd be doing in this
role and the fact that I've been already been doing
it for you know, five six months now, and honestly
(26:53):
based on the market research that I've done for a
director level position in our field at comparable organizations incomparable roles,
this is far below the market rate for this position.
And I, with all due respect, like, I am so
excited for this role. I want to I want to
take it on. I want to keep this momentum going.
(27:14):
But I don't really feel settled. I don't really feel
good about, you know, moving forward if I don't feel
like I am being paid commensurate with my market rate.
So is there anything you can do to get me
closer to the market range, which based on my research
is about one fifteen to one.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
So that's a yes, thank you. Bye, I'm just kidding,
don't do that. You can do that depends on your rapport.
I like cracking a joke.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
So yeah, we can definitely take it back to the
team and see, you know, what is possible based on
the budget and so forth, and I can get back
to you.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I can, okay, yeah, I really appreciate response. You'll get
back to you, and then they'll go, do do you
think in that case? I was expecting you to almost
push back and say, well, you know, given the fact
that you were recently promoted, we thought that keeping you
at this level was fair for now, and then we
could look at we could look at potentially increasing that,
getting you closer to that, you know, your goal, your
(28:22):
target compensation goal, maybe in a year.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
So if they said that, what would you say.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
That's okay, Well, now I'm playing both roles, that's fine,
I'm used to it, I would say, I, yeah, I
completely understand, And honestly I was thrilled, and yeah, pleasantly
I was pleasantly surprised. I want to say surprised. I was.
I was really pleased, surprised.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Surprise, yes, but really I.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Was actually you know, I yeah, I was surprised and
pleasantly so that I received that promotion in Jenny. But
the fact of the matter is that I have been
doing the director level position responsibilities and duties for five
months now, and so leaving aside the reason promotion, I
think bringing me up to that director level title and
compensation that has always been my long term goal. I
(29:15):
feel like it is what I you know, am, That's
how I should be valued. And I think it absolutely
reflects the amount of goodwill that I've had, you know,
showing up and putting my all into this role for
the last five months, even though I was, you know,
doing the work of an individual a couple of levels
and certainly a higher compensation level than I am, And
(29:36):
to wait a year, it just doesn't feel like that
really is reflecting the value I've already brought and the
value I'll continue to bring for the next year.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Okay, well we'll take that back to the team and
I'll get back.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Okay, you look good. Did you something with your hair?
This is different?
Speaker 4 (29:53):
High?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah, I'm high.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Your teeth whitened? How are the kids? You want to
put a picture of your baby up in the background?
Speaker 5 (30:02):
Just you know, Oh yeah, I'm prepared to, like, you know,
reiterate value contributed in future value.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
That is clear. But I'm still, like, you know, just
a little antsy about it.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
A good problem to have, That's a good problem to have.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, I agree, Like, who gets multiple promotions within one quarter? Like,
you know, who's catching up? So is catching up?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
I think you've done so well for yourself, I really do.
I'm trying to think of other, you know, other potential outcomes.
So I mean, how do you feel about the responding
to an email asking for a phone call? Do you
think they'll do that?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
I'm hoping say better.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I just think it's so much better on the phone.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Especially when you have because usually offers are given on
the phone. Now that I think about it, that you
we call like hey, just letting you know that we
would like to extend the offer. Yeah, here's now. What
do you think as far as negotiations of other items
within the benefits package? So?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Oh, good call? What what else do you have going
on there?
Speaker 3 (31:14):
What else they got PTO?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Okay? What what PTO do you have?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Like number of days like four weeks? Okay, So I
don't know if that'll bump or not, but just you know,
I don't know if that's something to include if they like,
don't come all the way with the salary? Should we
talk one time bonuses like all that?
Speaker 1 (31:39):
So when you got your promotion, did your annual target bonus?
Do you still to the percentage target bonus? Oh you
don't Okay, no bonus at all? Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I know, like thinking about negotiations from the external side
of things, you can like bring those items in. So
I just didn't know from an internal stance, like what
can you use?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Well, you have you have a leg up here because
you already know what packages look like right. I mean, also,
you're in the recruiting space, do you have line of
sight into other candidates offers at all? No? Okay, I
mean not candidates for this role, but in general no.
So so compensation package, I think you have to decide
(32:25):
what's your end goal. I think for you it's the cash, right,
Like you want the when you think of total compensation
and you're thinking of one to fifteen one fifteen base
is what you're thinking, right, m So I would make
that clear. Now, they don't offer annual bonuses, so I
don't know how they would make anything up with a bonus.
They could do potentially a spot bonus. You have they
(32:48):
done that before? Have you heard about other people getting it.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
For like performance evaluation type situations and like that.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
That's what I thought, Maybe that could be a potential.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Oh that's good. So you don't have like a set
percentage that you are on target to earn like in
terms of a bonus. But they are known to do
it if it's been a good they're a good performer,
and there's money in the the bank for that. Okay, Yeah,
I mean they could make up any gap. Like so,
let's say they're a hard line like, no, this is
the salary approved for the role for this year, which
(33:19):
does me doesn't make any sense because if they were
trying to hire someone outside, they would have to have
a budget big enough to meet that market rate. You know, so,
but anyway, let's just say they're like, no, this is
the final Then you could say, then you could yes,
you could counter and ask for a one time bonus
to close the gap, and then let's revisit it in
you know, the next review cycle.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
And do you get that in writing, like the whole
revisit review cycle piece, or do you just faces in writing.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I'm trying to think if they could put that in writing, Yeah,
you could.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
They probably won't put it in the in the email
or your employee contract, but you could get them to
say it in an email. You could be like, well,
does this all can? I just wanted to clarify I
will be able to like, there's an understanding that you know,
next review review cycle compensation will be a compensation increase
a market rate increase rather a market rate increase will
(34:14):
be on the table or up for discussion. Then you
can have them say that in an email.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, yeah, well I guess we'll there go, So what happens.
I'm expecting to hear something maybe in a week or so.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I could use a good negotiation outcome. You've been good
to me so far. You always have like a nice update.
Even when you're down, you're up at the end of
the day, you know, down in a market like this,
I just want other people to know that it's still
possible to negotiate. And I think the challenge is, like
you said, it's that nerves. It's do I do I
(34:53):
have the audacity? Should I be asking for this? But
hell yes? I mean you know, based on your own research,
what you're earning now is not the market rate for
the job you will be doing. And so what if
you're not managing people? The level of expectation, the visibility
within the company, the demand for your role like that
should be what comes to the forefront, not how many
(35:15):
people are you managing. Yeah, I'm good luck, Girly, thank you,
and thank y'all for tuning in, and Ray, thank you
for joining me. Good luck girl. I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Heyb a fam, What name is Zoo and my mama?
Ha a update?
Speaker 1 (35:41):
That's right, Rio, Hey ba fam, I'm back with a
quick update on this week's QA from Ray, I am
so excited, y'all. I'm gonna let her fill y'all in
on her job update, and I'm going to go back
to enjoying my spring break quote unquote vacation with my
children on a road trip to Atlanta. Bye him, Mandy.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I am thrilled to share some life changing news. I
just accepted the director's talent placement role and get this,
it was a twenty five K bump in my salary,
Like I cannot believe it. I'm ecstatic. I thank God
for just bringing me here and just allowing all of
(36:25):
the things that you've taught us through the Maker's Community,
leveraging my own recruiter experience, and really just doing the thing,
Like can you believe? Just three years ago, I felt
like I was stuck on my hamster wheel, barely making
fifty K, working two jobs, feeling overworked, underpaid, overwhelmed. And
(36:46):
then you know, you just fast forward joining the Maker's Community,
and now in three years, I have tripled my income,
purchased my first home, and just well on my way
to achieving financial freedom and multi generational wealth. And I
wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you, Mandy and
the Maker's community. So just thank you so much for
(37:08):
the support and the encouragement and the space to show
up and be heard and seen, regardless of what was
going on in my life at that time. So just
thank you, thank you, thank you. And this is just
the beginning. I know more is coming and I just
can't wait to just share all of the great news.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Have a wonderful day, okayva fan, thank you so much
for listening to this week's show. I want to shout
out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our
fearless leader for idea to launch productions. I want to
shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for
helping me put the show together. It is not a
(37:51):
one person project, as much as I have tried to
make it so these past ten years. I need help, y'all,
and thank Goodness been able to put this team around
me to support me on this journey. And to y'all,
ba fam, I love you so so so so much.
Please rate, review, subscribe, make sure you sign up to
the newsletter to get all the latest updates on upcoming episodes.
(38:14):
Our tenth year anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time,
talk to you soon via bye.
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