April 11, 2025 • 50 mins
This week, we’re joined by Latham Thomas, founder of Mama Glow and a true trailblazer in reproductive justice. She takes us on the journey that started with her own birth experience and led her to build a movement that’s transforming how we care for Black women and birthing people.
From expanding doula care for Medicaid families in NYC to training the next wave of advocates and healers, Latham breaks down how Mama Glow went from a personal mission to a global platform. And y’all, she keeps it real about what growth actually looks like—think repotting a plant or realizing your kid just outgrew their favorite hoodie.
We also get into the rise of Mama Glow during COVID, how the shift to online learning opened unexpected doors, and why planning, vision, and community are key when everything feels uncertain. Plus, Latham reminds us that doulas and midwives aren’t a luxury—they’re a necessity when it comes to safety, dignity, and support in the birthing space.
If you’re someone who cares about health, healing, and building something with purpose, this one’s for you.
What You’ll Hear:
- Why Latham created Mama Glow and what it’s grown into
- The real deal on Black maternal health and advocacy
- How COVID sparked a pivot that paid off
- The power of self-advocacy in the delivery room
- How doulas are changing lives—and saving them
Takeaway Quote:
“Every person deserves to feel safe, seen, and supported during birth. Mama Glow is here to make sure that happens especially for us." – Latham Thomas
Links + Resources:
📲 Black Mamas Matter: https://blackmamasmatter.org/bmhw25/
📲 Follow on Latham Instagram -https://www.instagram.com/glowmaven/
📲 Follow on Mama Glow Instagram -https://www.instagram.com/mamaglowfoundation/
🎙️ Stay connected with Brown Ambition → @brownambitionpodcast
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, ba fam, It's Mandy Money, and I'm really excited
to share today's episode with you. I know Friday's usually
the day when we do our ba qa's, but this
coming week of April, it starts today, actually kicks off
Black Maternal Health Week in the US. Y'all have probably
read the same articles I have read, watched the same
(00:23):
disturbing news videos that share experiences of deep trauma with
life altering and in some cases, life ending consequences for
women of color in this country. You don't need me
to tell you that I'm right here with you. I
feel the same pain you do encountering these types of stories.
And at Brown Ambition, what are we here to do.
(00:44):
We are here to acknowledge and accept the reality of
what it's like to live in this brown skin, to
have ambition in this brown skin, to have families in
this brown skin. But we are also here to share
stories about how we are overcoming and how we are
creating safe spaces for one another. And I have the
incredible opportunity to sit at the same dinner table with
(01:07):
this woman. Her name is Latham Thomas. Not only is
she exquisite and ethereal earth, Mama goddess. She has also
helped bring into the world so many A Lists celebrity babies. Now,
I know all babies are A Listers, right, especially mine
and especially any brown ambition babies we have out there.
But Latham has been by the side of celebrities like
(01:30):
Anne Hathaway, Alicia Keys, Ashley Graham. She is at the
top of her game and she was at a position
where she could create a business out of just helping
celebrities have these gorgeous humans and bring them into the
world a couple times a year. But of course, because
black women are everything, Latham turned around and said, I
(01:55):
could be one incredible doula, but what if I train
generations to come in the incredible work of being a
doula and helping bring these babies home and give them
an incredible birthing experience for their parents. And she launched
Mama Glow, which we're going to talk about today on
the podcast. She'll tell you how her own birthing experience
(02:16):
in New York City and the early two thousands drove
her and gave her this call to action. She's also
going to answer my dumb questions about what is the
difference between a doula and a midwife, and who makes
a good candidate for having a doula and a midwife
or having a home birth or a hospital birth. We'll
also get a little bit because it is Brown ambition, right,
we're here to talk about money, honey. We'll get a
(02:37):
little bit into the business strategies that have served Latham
well as she has had to pivot and take her
business from being fully in person trainings to online of
course during the pandemic, and we'll talk about how that
actually ended up being really beneficial for her business, that
she was able to pivot in that way. Now, if
y'all want to find out more about Mama Glow, if
(02:59):
you're thinking about getting trained as a doula through one
of their programs, you can head to the show notes Snap.
Whether you decide to become a parent or not, or
help bring life into the world in this way or not,
this is an episode where we can appreciate the beauty
of this really sacred moment in a person's life and
in a child's life. So thank y'all again for listening.
(03:21):
This is Nandy Money and here's my conversation with Latham Thomas.
All Right, v A fam I am genuinely just very thrilled.
I know I say that every time, but I have
wanted to get to know this woman better ever since
I happened to meet her at Afrotech in Houston. I
(03:43):
found out we both live in New York, very different
versions of New York, but still the same state. We'll say.
I have Laitham Thomas on the show today, y'all, and
I don't know if we have enough time for me
to read her entire bio, but I'm gonna read a
little bit of it because I need to put some
respect on your name, okay. Latham is the founder of
(04:04):
Mama Glow, advancing reproductive justice and birth equity through education, advocacy,
the arts, research scholarship. But it also she trains doulas, y'all,
trains doulas across the country, across the world, really in
different continents. And beyond the business that she has created,
Latham is also a distinguished women's health expert, black maternal
(04:27):
health advocate, entrepreneur, one of Oprah's SuperSoul one hundred, which
is I don't know. If I were I would just
wear that on my neck every day. I would just
have that like hang on like a chain, just like
Oprah said my name out loud in her Super Soul
one hundred. Now, the global community for Mama Glow is
over three thousand. Mama Glow trained doulas across the USA
(04:50):
six continents. And what I love so much is that
you're not just you know, I think about doulas and
I think about the birthing experience, but she y'all don't
just cover that. You cover the fertility period, the pregnancy, birth,
and postpartum offering handholding through bespoke doula services, and you
also work through hospitals through insurance companies, So you are
(05:14):
not just like for me, it's not just that you
care about black maternal health, but you know how to
work the system to get the resources to the people
that need them the most. And so welcome lay them
to the brand and vision podcast.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Much Mandy, It's such a pleasure and honor to be here.
I really appreciate you. I also fell in love fast
friends you know, we met, and so I'm just grateful.
Mama Goo is a global maternal health and education platform,
but really the goal is training doulas, nurse care managers
(05:48):
and providing doula matching services to families, hospital systems designing
doula benefits. And then really, you know, as we think
about it as not your anewer, which many people are
who do this work, we want doulos to thrive, and
so we also help to ensure that people get paid
and paid well for the work that they're doing and
(06:11):
ensure that we can make impact. And so like as
you said, the three thousand dulas that we've trained, are
you active in the world and been doing work. They
work with us because we have also a platform where
we can match do thos with families, but then they
also work out in the world and have their own businesses, right,
and so one of those really become a really powerful
platform for expanding opportunity. But then also the Foundation has
(06:37):
been a really wonderful opportunity for us to advance research
and scholarship as well as DOLA matching services for families
that are in need. And so we actually provide pro
bono doula services across the country and in New York
City we're the largest provider of pro bono doula services
for families in need. And so if you need a
(06:58):
doula and you're in the city of New York. You're
likely getting a doulah through Momo Glow if you're Medicaid eligible,
and so we're really excited to be able to offer
that as well. Yeah, I'm so proud of the work
that we do daily. But also I always had a
dream of being able to do that, right, Like, I've
had people reach out to me, some people reach out
(07:20):
to me on social or friends reach out and they're like, hey,
I have someone in my family who needs a service.
And because typically people would pay for this service, right,
you know, and it can be thousands, right depending on
how you won. Yeah, typically thousands of dollars. And so
to be able to say, like I asked, you know,
can they afford it? Or you know, what's their position
(07:42):
they're in, and they'll say yeah, you know, they're not
really the position. I'm like, okay, great, have them thought
this form and we can provide a doula. And so
just being able to do that and have a system
in place and have funding to cover it and then
sure that the dulos are paid well, is you know,
really a dream.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
But I have to start with a basic question. Sure,
how did you start Mama Glow, Where did it come from?
What were you doing before? And then when did it?
When did it become what it is today?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Is so I I started Mama Glow after my son
was born. I was living in New York City, which
I never really left, and I was a new mother,
and I had noticed along the pregnancy continuum that it
was really just challenging to navigate the care system here. Thankfully,
(08:32):
I connected with midwives, and so my son was born
in a birth center on Fourteenth Street, and I had
this amazing experience of feeling supported and just really like
everything I needed was there, Like the midwives, you know,
supported my autonomy, respected me in the in the practice
(08:53):
of delivering my son, and I had this like incredible
out of body spiritual experience that sort of led to
this vision, but also the sacred mandate and what I've
been really referring to as a calling, you know, to
do this work. And so my son's twenty one now,
So this is like twenty two years ago right that
I feel this inside of me surfacing, And so it
(09:16):
was really a matter of like, well, how do I
go about it? And I didn't have the business skills
or acumen, but I did have like a high business
IQ and what I mean by that is a lot
of us who you know, have the tenacity and the
sort of interest, but also the healthy dose of naivete
(09:38):
who will like go for something you know, can start things.
And I also have a stubborn quality being a tourist.
I don't quit stuff, and so if I start something,
I never quit.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I'm like a hippie.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
So I was like, I want to have it at
home or I want to have it like I knew that.
So I couldn't have it at my my son's father's house.
His apartment was too small. I didn't want to do
it there. So I was like, I want to find
a place where you know I can do it.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
But I did go to.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I won't say their name, but I did you know
before I found the birth center, I was supposed to
deliver in a hospital. And then I went to the
meetings and I was like, uh uh, I'm not something
they right, And I didn't even I didn't even really
question it. Once I had the feeling that this doesn't work,
I was like, we're moving forward and finding something new
(10:32):
that feels right, and this is me as like at
like twenty three right, I'm like somethingday right in the milk.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Let's figure it out.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
And then so I found this birth center because we
were walking back and forth and because I knew it
from night life, I just would pass by it all
the time.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
And we were like, let's go in.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
And we went in and we had a great conversation
with the staff and they said, come in for like
an open house kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Find out that they took my insurance. And here's another thing.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I didn't go there at first because I didn't think
I belonged, right. I didn't think that me as a
person who was basically underinsured because I was fresh out
of college. So my insurance ended a year after I
finished college. So by the time I was pregnant with
my son, like, I didn't have insurance coverage, right, and
so so then I was able to get on Medicaid
(11:23):
and they were like, yes, we take Medicaid. And so
my copays were like five dollars. My son costs six
dollars to take home. He was like a bargain baby deal. Okay,
my goodness, it was six dollars.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right, So this is the coverage that I got, and
it was amazing because again, you know, everyone treated me
with autonomy, with respect with love. They didn't say, oh,
this is this type of patient, you know, because we
understand that good insurance to medicaid there is a gradient
in terms of what you expect in terms of service
(11:59):
and what you had set in terms of you know,
people's attitude towards you. And if you have private insurance,
people expect to be treated well, and if you're on
you know, medicaid, people expect to be treated poorly and
also have poor access to care and even like you know,
their you know, like testing and diagnostics and things like
(12:20):
that you get locked out of because of insurance apartheid.
And so I was so fortunate right to have this
experience at a younger age, and I think, you know,
I knew inside it was something inside of me that
knew I wanted to do it this way. And I'm
thankful that at the time I had the support of
my son's father and I had this sort of internal compass,
(12:43):
right that kind of guided me in the direction of
doing it. But also I think God had a plan
of like, you need to have this experience, you need
to be able to sort of use this. This is
the origin story for what you're going to give rise to, right,
and so I needed to have this to kind of
have a trajectory of working in women's health, laying the foundation,
(13:04):
laying the bricks right for what will become. Mama glow
down the line. And I think for me, you know,
that experience and then the shift from working as an
individual because I did have that calling to individually serve
as a doula, right, and I learned so much. I'm
asked so much information and in service. But then Mandy,
(13:25):
one time there was a there was a moment, right,
And I think everybody experiences this too, right at any
stage in business and what they're growing something you have
an opportunity. I feel like that arises in each of
us where we're inside of this configuration and things are
(13:47):
going well, but you're being asked to do more or
called to do something bigger and so the container that
you're inside of no longer fits. It's like when you
have to repot your plants, right.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
You know, to expand and to be you know.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Like my son busting out of as eighteen month onesie girl,
Like Mama, I'm almost too. It's a time give it up?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Can we talk about it well? Overnight? Like it's gonna
throw the close. Okay, overnight they outgrow these clothes. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So you feel that call to expand, and some of
us will show up and answer it and be like, Okay,
I'm going to step into this thing that feels really
scary and uncertain and I don't know because I'm super
comfortable here, but like something's pulling me and also even
almost in some cases forcing me to move beyond. And
so I had that, I had that experience where it
(14:43):
was not just enough to serve as a doula. I
needed to build something bigger. And that's when Mama Glow
comes into being. Really is at a pivotal point culturally,
which is like how a lot of things come right
in terms of our uh, you know we think about
(15:03):
impact right and impact oriented work. Is that some critical
pieces of reporting came out Pro Publica and The New
York Times of Black Manternal Health, right, yes, and these right,
These were stories that shifted culture. It was groundbreaking that
there was finally this focus on things that we have
(15:25):
been talking about in silos for years that were happening
to us, and there was finally on central stage or
center stage, this discussion happening that permeated the globe, and
now everyone was talking about what it is like to
give birth in the United States if you are a
black birthing person, and that moment of that sort of
(15:48):
you know, earth shattering, and then subsequently more pieces come
and more stories absolute heartbreaking, heartbreaking is I mean in nature?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Absolutely right?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And to level set for folks we're talking about you know,
and many of you have heard these statistics, but to
share that black women in the United States are three
to four times more likely than white women to die
during childbirth or due to childbirth related causes, right, And
we're not talking about numbers. We were talking about individuals
and people with potential who pass on and leave behind
(16:23):
a legacy that is unfinished, and they have children who
have to then be raised by community. And when because
we know that black women are the crux of community,
when black women die, it actually just configures our communities.
And so because we are oriented differently than other communities, right,
and so it's not only just an individual tragedy, it's
(16:45):
a collective tragedy that we experience when this happens, right. So,
and so what I saw in that moment was to
create the program that would train the dulas because it
had to be bigger than me. It couldn't just be
me out here in the world. It's not effective enough.
And I had the knowledge, and I had the years
of experience. It was like it's time. So I developed
(17:08):
a program. I remember in twenty eighteen, I was super
nervous to you know, put out the flyers to announce it.
I waited until last minute because that's apropos of who
I am. I mean pretty much, I always do everything
last minute. And so here we go. I launched the
flyer like two weeks before the class is supposed to start,
and Mandy, Oh my days. It filled in the next one.
(17:31):
I did that within nine months. We expanded from New
York to La Miami in Paris, and then COVID hits
in twenty twenty and it's like, what do we do now, right,
because this is an in person experience, So in three
weeks we pivot to online. We test internally with the
you know, like the group of people that we have.
(17:53):
Basically we grew like eightfold overnight, eightfold.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Heyba fam, We're going to take a quick break, pay
some bills, and we'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
The classes were now like hundreds of people in each class,
people were home because of COVID, right, so they're able
to be online. And so we had not only the
limit the limit the lack of limitation because of online,
but also we had people who were literally at home
trying to find purpose, and so all those people came
in and it was incredible, and so we we actually
(18:30):
really grew the business and COVID. Where many people were
winding down or sunsetting businesses, we were like catapulted and
COVID and so it was actually a blessing for us.
And so while our in person courses and training and
programs you know, had to collapse during that time, the
online really shot up and then we found really innovative
(18:50):
ways to like support community and really support and and
actually pour into the doulas in ways that we couldn't
in the beginning, or not even saying that we couldn't,
but just it was a different focus because we were
in person, so we didn't have to think about like
the fact that people were isolated, and now we're thinking
through how to maintain their well being, their mental health,
(19:12):
how to create you know, community online and spaces for
them for self care while they're still practicing and living
through a public health and you know, a global public
health crisis, right, and so so that's how it kind
of expanded. But it was really, you know, not something
that I started from a lens of I'm going to
(19:33):
go this crazy business.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
It's going to be huge.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
It was more just like, you know, this is what
I would like to do, and I knew in this moment,
and I was like, I'm just going to keep putting
one foot in front of the other. And and I
would also always write down and like project map what
I wanted to create, even if I was under resourced,
So even in the times where I could not actually
see it through, I would project map as if it
(19:58):
was already happening. And I I've done that my whole career.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Like I'll sit here.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
It's not like really vision boarding, because I do that too,
but it is literally like sort of mapping your your
sort of business arc and really diving into a roadmap
and having it in the background almost like you know,
(20:24):
when you're in a restaurant and there's like that music
playing in the background. It's and you're just like not
tuned in, but you kind of oh, there's thing, you know,
one of your favorite songs, and then you kind of
go back into what you're doing. It's like that like
that thing stays in the background, and so I'm always aware.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And so then when something.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Does surface that we achieve that was in that roadmap, right,
like i'd stop, I acknowledge, and I also like go
back to that.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
And I look to see what other things so that
I'm also becoming more aware of what I'm continuing to do,
but also to like loop into where I was and
then versus where I am. And so it's been a
great exercise.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I'm a visual learner as well, so like these types
of things are helpful.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And then guess what.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
We were able to work with CBS ETNA to develop
a do a competency training for nurse care managers for
CEU credits, and so then I was able to take
a train that we already had distill it down to
a three hour program for CEU credits for nurses and
so then I was like I checked that off, right,
And so things like that right where you know, I
(21:34):
didn't know how it would happen. But when you're and
I feel like you shouldn't always try to figure out how,
because part of the journey is like you need to
come up with the vision, right, and the vision has
to be expansive, it has to be bigger than you
have to also feel unattainable because along the way, along
(21:55):
the way, you encounter solutions, you encounter contacts, resources, and
sometimes find your way to that thing or something like it,
or even something better. And so for me, I was
able to achieve that thing that I set out for,
but then even something better where we were able to
work within healthcare systems in ways that I had not imagined, right, So,
(22:17):
but because that was one of the pathways, it created
an opening for other things. But I think also too,
the consistency of action for me has one of the
things that I feel like has had to stand out because,
like I said before, you know, if you're moving around,
you're balancing, like, if you're not focused, then people can't see.
(22:40):
People have such a low attention span these days, right,
and so you think that they see your work and
they don't and so or they're like, oh I think
I saw this, or it's just there's too much coming
at people. So if you're not consistent, they don't know
what to plug into or to focus on, or they
don't even know how to their brain doesn't know what
(23:03):
to do right. And then also I think that when
you're asking, you know, if you think about or have
a belief in a higher power, if you're asking for
support and benevolence and guidance and strength on this journey,
but you keep switching, it's like hard to because then
you're gonna get the thing you ask for, but you're
(23:24):
gonna be gone, you know, onto the next thing. And
so you got to also focus so that you can
prepare for the blessing right. And so that's what I
always try to do too, is like I need to
stay right where I am so that when that thing
that I ask for and that I've been working towards arise,
I actually have the capacity to hold it because I've
been building towards expanding you know, the platform and the
(23:48):
ability to scale the business. And I live for people
saying to me like how they were impacted. I live
for being able to support you know, staff, you know,
and them living their dreams and being able to live
full lives. I live for things like that. I live for,
you know, my son, Like we live for our kids too, right.
(24:08):
But I think it helps to do this for yourself
because sometimes people don't acknowledge, and many of us, especially
here as we're talking about women of color, we are
not acknowledged for our gifts, for our brilliance, for the
for the singular, I mean, how singular we are when
(24:30):
we step into a space over.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
The only one and people will act.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Like we are not here and that we are not
doing the damn thing, and it will in some ways,
it can cut, and it can feel like a thousand
tiny cuts, and sometimes you don't feel like you have
the ability to keep going, especially if things get challenging,
if no one's acknowledging the good you're doing.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
And so sometimes it's.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Like doing these practices of cloaking yourself with love of
remind yourself that you're worthy, and also envisioning yourself being acknowledged. Also,
I think feels really good, especially in a world that
is always telling black and brown women and girls that
we are not enough, and we are and by the way,
(25:15):
you know how I know we are because we don't
have a choice, because we have to be forced to
outperform everybody, which is why you see black women the
most educated population in this country, and we're talking about
the United States highly educated, not because we wanted to
get all these degrees because we had to to be
(25:37):
able to compete. And by the way, when we get
into positions, and we were in positions of leadership and power,
we could have ran the whole thing. By the time
we get into a position where a subordinate is maybe
paid more as somebody who's alongside us, maybe paid even
comparably or more, but we're doing ten times the amount
of work. And so I know that we sit inside
(25:59):
of this face of being unacknowledged. I know we sit
inside of spaces where we are not reminded of our
brilliance and how amazing we are, and a lot of
times we do not feel loved. And I'm here to
remind us that. You know, part of it is creating
community so we can feel that. And then part of
it is like a cloaking of self love, constantly speaking,
(26:19):
blessing over yourself, constantly being in a space where we
do not do what we have been taught, which is
to self criticize, but to actually self actualize. That is
our job here, because nobody can do the work you
were put here to do.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I can help bring it out of you, but I
can't help you do it. Mandy could sit here and
podcast all day and remind you about who the fuck
you are, But if you don't actually get up and
go do it, like, it's this amazing wasted potential right
Like it's like if you can't do the thing that
you were put here to do, like, then we don't
(26:56):
get to see it. And that, to me is the shame.
Is there's somebody out there who decides not to keep going,
like we don't get to see the brilliance and we
don't get to benefit from it as a community. And
so as black women, I always want to remind us
that that pouring in is so critical to keep going.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Thank you for that. Just listen to you build us
up all day. I mean, I think self love is
so crucial. It is a practice though, because there's days
where I am like so good to myself and there
are days when I'm so mean to her and I'm
just like, no, not too much on my friend Mandy,
like let's be kind yes, be kind of me, And
he said bullying stop stop stop the self bullying. Yeah, absolutely,
(27:38):
but it has to come from within, and I ice, yeah,
so that is a constant practice. I want to talk
just about Mike, I want to talk about I want
to be I want to admit I'm a little bit
ignorant of the work of doulas and the work of
I mean, I had pretty cookie cutter, vanilla pregnancy and
birthing experiences. I know, I'm very lucky. I also recognize
(28:00):
my privilege. I'm a light skinned woman of color. But
I want to talk about the doula, Like, yes, doula
versus midwife, what are we question?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
What are we getting?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
What all comes with that? And what can you expect
and how do you know if you need one yeah
or not?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
So first of all, I love that you have asked
what the difference is, because there is one, and there's
many differences, I should say, between douls and midwives. So
midwives are clinical care providers who are trained to provide
support along the entire women's health continuum.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
So you can work with.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
A midwife for well woman care and well care throughout
your reproductive journey, starting from men's thees through menoplause, right,
And these would be typically people who were in our
community and Midwiffree is actually one of the oldest known professions, right,
So we've always had midwives and this work is actually
really ancient, right, and so what they do is low
(28:59):
risk burn and that's typically for people who are you know,
like healthy and wanting to do birth in one of
three settings. It could be home, it could be a
birth center, and in some cases hospitals that do have
midwives on staff, right, and those would be certified nurse
midwives who will be on staff and hospitals, and so
(29:21):
it would depend on your choice and your avenue that
you select. So midwives are an option. The midway three
model of care centers the family and their needs and
so it doesn't center around the needs of those providing
the care, but those receiving the care. And that's a
difference in what we see in our normal sort of
(29:42):
healthcare model where the doctor is sort of at there's
a hierarchy and the doctor's at the top, right, and
it's really the physician that's centered versus the patient. So
doula is a non clinical care provider, meaning that they
provide all of the things outside of the clindict experience.
So that is going to be emotional support along the
(30:05):
pregnancy and birth continuum. It'll be education, advocacy tools. If
you have a partner present, they're going to support your
partner and get them up to speed on how to
best support you through the process.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
And also it's about you know what my client's call is.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
It like having a producer for your birth right, somebody
who's thinking about every aspect of this experience and how
it will go for you and making sure that you
have everything you need to navigate the experience.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Now, a couple things to think about.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
You know when we talk about advocating, and we constantly
have this conversation about black women advocating for themselves and
you got to advocate, you got to advocate, yes, but
let me give a caveat There's two things that I
like to say about this. One is that you cannot
advocate in birth. At the same time, birthing is about surrender,
It's about transcendence. It's about opening, softening, being vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
You have to be in.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
A space where you feel safety, you feel dignity, you
feel belonging, you feel like you are held, and in
that you can actually the hormones that are designed to
help facilitate birth can actually flow.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
The experience can flow.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
If you are fighting for your life, if you are
fighting for your safety, if you have to compromise your
safety for your dignity. If any of these things are
happening where you do not feel comfortable, you cannot birth.
So I want to just say that, because this idea
of advocating is about defending. It's about self defending. It's
(31:35):
about self really, it's about you know, protecting yourself. How
can I also protect myself but then also birth right?
I can do one or the other. I cannot do both.
And so we need to create atmospheres and settings that
do not require advocacy, that do not require me to
fight for my safety, fight for my dignity, fight to
(31:57):
be seen and heard, fight for medication for pain, fight
for like I should not be having to do this, right,
And this is what black women have been saying all
along when they talk about the experience of medical racism
in hospital settings. Right, that's number one. The other thing
I want us to think about when it comes, you know,
to this process is you know, in lieu of or editation,
(32:18):
in addition to not being able to advocate, you know,
while you're actually trying to birth your babies, is that
you know, when we're moving through this process, you know,
we feel this is a space of deep vulnerability.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Right, this is a space where.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
You know people are not able to when you're when
you're actually birthing, a couple of things happen.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Your brain is in an altered state of consciousness. And
what typically happens is there's a lot of decisions that
you're being asked to make when you're not in the
frame of mind to actually make those decisions, right. And
so a lot of things happen that are non consensual
that people feel coerced in to doing or consenting to
(33:04):
and setting in a setting where they should be protected.
And so another thing, what like, well like signing a
paper for an epidural, Right, Like, how can I do
that when I'm in active labor and I'm in and
I'm in pain, and I'm in and out of contractions.
How can I sign ten pages of paperwork and read
(33:25):
it and really understand what I'm signing off for?
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Right? Yeah, And so you can't write, you can't do
it in that state. And so I think.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
That you need a birthing plan.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
That is why you need a plan, but also you
need a duelah.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
But you also need to read this information know about
it before.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
We can't be in the moment trying to figure it
all out.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
And I think the thing that my hospital did do
is they were like, we need a birth plan and
a lot of their nurses were midwives, I believe.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, I got this really nice hospital. I'm curious though,
like when I I think about doulas or midwives, is
that person catching the baby?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So the midwife absolutely could catch the baby. A doula
is there as support, so it is not there to
deliver the baby, but they are there to like be
an extra set of hands, someone who's helping you. Yeah,
they're like, are you the leader for your birth?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Is it best to have both? Yes, you need the combo.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
You need the combo. It's it's because it's a dream team.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Because it's like the clinicians do clinician things right, So
they're birthing the baby, they're monitoring you, making sure that
you're safe, taking care of all the clinical needs. But
then the doula can do all the emotional stuff, like
you know, like feeding you the water between contractions, you know,
giving you massage or or comfort measures while you're experiencing pain,
(34:47):
you know, breathing with you, maybe saying okay, let's walk
or let's dance or let me you know, use this
technique on you, right, yeah, dancing, he's very helpful right
in labor. But you know, changing position is you know,
like all these they.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Push the peanut ball in between the flip you over.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
All of these things, right, the hands on support is
what the dula is doing. But another thing, like to
think about it like this, I always say to people,
like our job is to protect your memory of the experience, right,
Like I'm here to think about how you recall your birth.
I want to I'm invested in that story, right, I'm
invested in what that looks like when you tell people
(35:29):
what happened, when you recall it for yourself, when you
tell it to your children. What are you saying, right
when you when you have that, when you undergo the experience,
what is the story you tell? And part of what
we're doing is preserving that, right, preserving the experience, preserving
the memory of the experience. And the doula is there
(35:49):
really like as that you know, the keeper of the
birth village, right, Like there's a bunch of people who
are part of the birth right. You might have a
lactation provider, massage therapist, ttritionist. You have your OB or
your midwife, and you would have an OB or a midwife, right,
Like typically people would have one or the other, and
then they would have a doula, right, And so the
(36:11):
OB's and adula's work together if that's what you select
to work with an obgin or if you decide to
work with a midwife, and the midwife and the doula
work together, which is great. You know, and people you know,
if they're going to do a hospital birth. Not everybody's
a candidate for hospital birth. Some people are better for
home birth or out of hospital birth and a birth center.
Some people are better suited for that experience. And then
(36:32):
some people are most comfortable but also best suited in hospitals,
depending on like what some of their needs are, right
and regardless of what you have going on, even if
you have a complicated birth plan, like some people know
that they have a C section plan because of a
health concern, a doula is tremendously helpful in that experience
as well as a postpartumer recovery experience.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I think the postpartum experience is one that is so
I mean, maybe it's just me, but I feel like
there's a lot of focus before and during the labor,
but then after it's very much like maybe you'll get
someone to come squeeze your boob for you and teach
you how to do the seahold. And now there are
more resources. I remember I went to lactation elactation support
(37:18):
group at my hospital after I had to seek that
kind of stuff out though. And just having a non mother,
like a non relative of yours, but just someone who's
there for your best interests and who really knows what
to expect. I wish. I love the idea of having
that sort of resource postpartum. So when yeah, and is
that something that a doula can provide? Like you know,
(37:41):
there's the feeding and like the are they sleeping enough?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Am I?
Speaker 1 (37:45):
You know, like how can I navigate this? Is this normal?
Is that normal?
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, So there's a couple things so postpartum doulas this
is the role right to come in and make sure
that you feel confidence in your transition into new parenthood.
A couple things to think about with right is that
you have things like baby nurses. Right, they come in,
they're thinking about sleep, they're changing diapers or feeding babies
or doing a lot of like hands on support, but
(38:10):
they are not really there for you. And when you
just gave birth, right, like, the people who are there
for you really is that postpartum doula who's helping you
with recovery, helping you to get those underwear on if
you have like the pad sickles and you're putting on
the postpartum underwear, and it's a whole thing. Helping with
things like that, Helping with meals right, maybe organizing a
(38:32):
meal train, making sure you're having adequate nutrition postpartum, you know,
helping you with things like organization like how am I
going to organize the nursery or my space? Or where
the diapers go versus where the breastmelt goes versus where
the bottles go, like all these things helping you to
put things in order and organize your life for success. Right,
(38:53):
So they're thinking about systems as well and also there
for you to help you build confidence as new parents.
So a do look can also help you as you're
changing diapers, help you with you know, skills or with swaddling,
teaching you things but also not doing it for you
so much as like helping you do it and then
thinking about like okay, when the baby goes down, like
(39:13):
it's time for you, right, So they'll observe feedings, they'll
you know, make sure you're eating, resting. But then also,
you know, we'll spend some time helping you process your
labor experience, do things like you know, like recap that
experience with you. Maybe also even you know, help you
to if you've had some experience where maybe there was
(39:36):
challenge come on the other side of that, to be
able to you know, process that experience that you're not
carrying the pain of what that might have been like
or trauma for some people into the next experience right
or into your parenting right, and just you to close
out and experience of birthing as well.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Right, Hey, ba fam, we're gonna take a quick b
pay some bills, and we'll be right back. Welcome back,
be a fan. Let's get back to the show. That's
such an interesting point, especially if you've had a not
great experience. Sometimes you're in the moment and you don't
really know how to process it, and then afterward you
start replaying things and then it can start to really
(40:18):
like oh that's and so with a doula, I mean,
do you just you just show up at a certain
hour like okay, postpartum, I'm going to have you here
from two to five pm every day, or.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
You design it.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
However, for folks who find the right dula, right, there's
a vibe, there's an energy. So when you're meeting in
your interview and you're like, oh, like we get along
really well, and you think, oh, we have some cultural
you know, things that main line up or this is
happening in my life, and you're like, oh cool. So
it's like there's sometimes these these areas of interest or
(40:51):
overlap in terms of like culture or lifestyle or background
and things like that that can also help ridge those gaps.
But most of the time, when people are looking for this,
they're kind of ready right to like open up and
or need a container to open up into. And oftentimes,
more often than not, people are isolated in this experience.
(41:12):
A lot of people come to it and they don't
have friends who've had kids, or they may be the
only friend that they'ell pregnant at the time, or they
may be a new city or whatever's happening in their life,
or like you lived through COVID, right, like a lot
of people having babies in isolation with no family members around,
Like that's struggle, that's hard trauma, right, Like it's.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Hard for me to go back to that time.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
I could understand why, because there's a lot there, right,
And so the doula's role is to help mitigate that
and to help you feel more safe.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
And calm, but also held.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
In your vulnerability. Like I like to think about how
we swaddle newborns, like swaddling a new family, swallowing a
new mother as they navigate this experience, right, and then
Dula does that really well?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yeah, I mean for you as the doula, it must
be hard to make that connection and then move on
down the road. Pack up your little doula suitcase.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Do you stay in.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Touch with your There's a lot of women in touch
with still and folks.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Did I read that you were Alicia Keys's doula? I
was is that like a known? I was like that,
I thought that was public?
Speaker 3 (42:21):
It is, like, I love her really great.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
We actually get to do a partnership later from Mother's Day,
which I'm so excited about.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
She does strike me as she is so ethereal and earth,
just like of course she would have a doula.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Yeah, she was so into it. It was great. I
love her. Yeah, so she's great.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
So do you still do it? I mean, like, is
it hard for you as a business now your business
is growing, now you're training a.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Doulas it's anymore.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Unfortunately, because of my schedule, you know, because university my
course was embedded at Brown University, where I teached right,
medical students, medical collegy students, bioethics, public health, they'll be
guying pre med.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
I mean, I think as entrepreneurs, So thepreneurs, you're hoping
to get to that level where you're not having to
do the you know, the day to day and that
you can focus on the bigger picture growth strategy and
just increasing the reach.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yes, creating more opportunities and all that.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Yeah, which which is better a better use of my
time as an individual, right to make more opportunity for
three thousand people who are in our network versus something
just for me, right, And so so that's how I
kind of see, you know, but I have had the
privilege of doing you know, I think the last you know,
(43:41):
I would say, the last couple of births, it was
really like one a year, you know, because I was
doing like three to four month, you know, back in
the day. But yeah, so then I got to like,
you know, I would say like last year, the in
the year before was like once you know that I
was able to do them for people who I really love,
like I've done you know, like Alicia like you said,
and Ashley Graham and Hath the way, DJ Khaled, you
(44:05):
know a lot of you know people, And I guess.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
All these people have home births. I think actually Graham
had a home birth right for her twins. She had
a home birth yea, and she posted something about that, sorry,
she had.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Two home births.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
It looks so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Yeah, I'm like, damn.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
I mean I had a great, beautiful experience that I
will cherish it. But it also looks I mean, just
the pictures. I love looking at pictures of births now
and some people get weirded out by it. But it
is the most beautiful.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Thing is because you know, it's just I.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Could just get like I'm like buzzing just thinking about it. Magic.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
It's awesome also because it happens once, right, Like you
only have one birthday, you know, and then after that
it's just anniversaries every year it's one birthday. And so
when you capture that, you're capturing the one time that
someone arrived for the very first and only time to
this planet. Right through this portal of the body from
(45:04):
heaven or ever that came through darkness into light. They
are born. And it only happens once and each time,
and you've been able to do it twice, right, each time,
it's the first time again, right, Like it's the only
time with that baby each time, right, And so you
get to do it over and over, which is beautiful
if you do it more than once, and you've had
(45:25):
the opportunity to be reborn again into motherhood. But like
people have to understand what we want to protect is
the sancty this experience, because it is holy, it is otherworldly.
It is to be protected. They come on the other
side of that, it's like they can use the power
(45:45):
that emerges from that experience of birthing to ask for
increase in their pay at work, to ask for a raise.
They can use that energy to ask and demand from
what they want. In other spaces, they use that to
claim up take up more space in the world. Literally,
your body expands and takes up more space, right like
(46:06):
the ones who get to live into that power in
that moment bring that with them, and so that is
another reason why it has to be protected.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
It's not just about huge opportunity, well.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Process, it is a huge opportunity for us to actually
become more self actualized.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
If you come to Momaglo doula training, you'll learn all
of this, which is what doulas are learning, nurses are learning,
healthcare providers are learning because it needs to be known,
and we are the market leader. So if you want
to learn how to do this, if you want to
have this experience for yourself, you can hire one of
our duels, which you certainly come to the training, and
we have lots of people who come wh they're pregnant
because they want to be able to carry this with
(46:49):
them into these spaces so that they feel informed. Right,
And so that's another thing to think about too. Take
doula training just to even prepare you for birth itself.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Right, that's really smart. Yeah, yeah, Well.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
We'll make sure that all the links are in the
show notes. Late than I could talk to you forever,
Lathan Thomas, thank you so much, y'all. You chok the
show notes for Mama glow, how to go to all
of the trainings if you want to get doula certified
trained what's the word? Okay, certified and find out more
about our beautiful I want to call you the Globe, Maven,
(47:24):
because that's fine. You are on Instagram find her at
the Globe. Even what else did I forget?
Speaker 3 (47:31):
I'm just so label.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
I'll have you back. We'll have you back.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Yeah, I try to come back. But I love you.
I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
I just have to say this, y'all, that people like
Mandy and what you are doing here, and even when
I met you, I was like, Okay, first of all,
like fast friends, love her energy all the way, like
just immanating energy, like dripping in love and support of
other women. But the other thing that I really love
(47:58):
is that you're, like, you know, talking about how you
want to continue to build what you all have done
so beautifully here to impact more of us. And I
love that you were like not it was not enough.
Like as she was speaking to me when we met
at Afrotech, one of the things I took away was
(48:19):
that there was this level of satisfaction, like look what
we've done, but also I know we can do more.
And it was like that that I found really inspiring,
that you want to continue to impact people, you want
to continue to touch people, and that you're driven to
(48:39):
do so. And so I just think that's amazing because
sometimes we get to a place where we're like this
is cool, and then we shift our focus. And what
I found in meeting you was that you were like, no,
this is time to go deeper and then find other
ways to do more and explore other tentacles. And I
(49:00):
found that to be really refreshing. But also just know, y'all,
she reaches everybody. This is an amazing pod. I'm so
honored to be on here. I was so excited to
be invited. First of all, I feel honored because I'm
listening like this is one of my shower listens, by
the way, So I'm thankful to be on here, and
I just appreciate you so much for the opportunity and
(49:21):
thank you again.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Listen. The way that we guess each other up as
black women should be studied by science, because literally my
face hurts from just like the smile I've had to
have plastered on this.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Old time regular offer.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
And I'm just thankful for you I'm so thankful to
know you too, Latham, and whatever forces came together to
put us at that dinner table together. Just thank you
all right, back at you love all right, Thank you
so much for joining me. La than ba Fam. Check
the show notes for all links and how you can
stay tuned and learn more about Mama Glue. Okay, be
(49:59):
a fam. Thank you, Thank you so much for listening
to this week's show. I want to shout out to
our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our fearless leader
for idea to launch productions. I want to shout out
my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for helping me
put the show together. It is not a one person project,
(50:20):
as much as I have tried to make it so
these past ten years. I need help, y'all, and thank
goodness I've been able to put this team around me
to support me on this journey and to y'all bea fam.
I love you so so so so much. Please rate, review, subscribe,
make sure you sign up to the newsletter to get
all the latest updates on upcoming episodes, our tenth year
(50:42):
anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time, talk to you,
soon via buye
Hey, ba fam, It's Mandy Money, and I'm really excited
to share today's episode with you. I know Friday's usually
the day when we do our ba qa's, but this
coming week of April, it starts today, actually kicks off
Black Maternal Health Week in the US. Y'all have probably
read the same articles I have read, watched the same
(00:23):
disturbing news videos that share experiences of deep trauma with
life altering and in some cases, life ending consequences for
women of color in this country. You don't need me
to tell you that I'm right here with you. I
feel the same pain you do encountering these types of stories.
And at Brown Ambition, what are we here to do.
(00:44):
We are here to acknowledge and accept the reality of
what it's like to live in this brown skin, to
have ambition in this brown skin, to have families in
this brown skin. But we are also here to share
stories about how we are overcoming and how we are
creating safe spaces for one another. And I have the
incredible opportunity to sit at the same dinner table with
(01:07):
this woman. Her name is Latham Thomas. Not only is
she exquisite and ethereal earth, Mama goddess. She has also
helped bring into the world so many A Lists celebrity babies. Now,
I know all babies are A Listers, right, especially mine
and especially any brown ambition babies we have out there.
But Latham has been by the side of celebrities like
(01:30):
Anne Hathaway, Alicia Keys, Ashley Graham. She is at the
top of her game and she was at a position
where she could create a business out of just helping
celebrities have these gorgeous humans and bring them into the
world a couple times a year. But of course, because
black women are everything, Latham turned around and said, I
(01:55):
could be one incredible doula, but what if I train
generations to come in the incredible work of being a
doula and helping bring these babies home and give them
an incredible birthing experience for their parents. And she launched
Mama Glow, which we're going to talk about today on
the podcast. She'll tell you how her own birthing experience
(02:16):
in New York City and the early two thousands drove
her and gave her this call to action. She's also
going to answer my dumb questions about what is the
difference between a doula and a midwife, and who makes
a good candidate for having a doula and a midwife
or having a home birth or a hospital birth. We'll
also get a little bit because it is Brown ambition, right,
we're here to talk about money, honey. We'll get a
(02:37):
little bit into the business strategies that have served Latham
well as she has had to pivot and take her
business from being fully in person trainings to online of
course during the pandemic, and we'll talk about how that
actually ended up being really beneficial for her business, that
she was able to pivot in that way. Now, if
y'all want to find out more about Mama Glow, if
(02:59):
you're thinking about getting trained as a doula through one
of their programs, you can head to the show notes Snap.
Whether you decide to become a parent or not, or
help bring life into the world in this way or not,
this is an episode where we can appreciate the beauty
of this really sacred moment in a person's life and
in a child's life. So thank y'all again for listening.
(03:21):
This is Nandy Money and here's my conversation with Latham Thomas.
All Right, v A fam I am genuinely just very thrilled.
I know I say that every time, but I have
wanted to get to know this woman better ever since
I happened to meet her at Afrotech in Houston. I
(03:43):
found out we both live in New York, very different
versions of New York, but still the same state. We'll say.
I have Laitham Thomas on the show today, y'all, and
I don't know if we have enough time for me
to read her entire bio, but I'm gonna read a
little bit of it because I need to put some
respect on your name, okay. Latham is the founder of
(04:04):
Mama Glow, advancing reproductive justice and birth equity through education, advocacy,
the arts, research scholarship. But it also she trains doulas, y'all,
trains doulas across the country, across the world, really in
different continents. And beyond the business that she has created,
Latham is also a distinguished women's health expert, black maternal
(04:27):
health advocate, entrepreneur, one of Oprah's SuperSoul one hundred, which
is I don't know. If I were I would just
wear that on my neck every day. I would just
have that like hang on like a chain, just like
Oprah said my name out loud in her Super Soul
one hundred. Now, the global community for Mama Glow is
over three thousand. Mama Glow trained doulas across the USA
(04:50):
six continents. And what I love so much is that
you're not just you know, I think about doulas and
I think about the birthing experience, but she y'all don't
just cover that. You cover the fertility period, the pregnancy, birth,
and postpartum offering handholding through bespoke doula services, and you
also work through hospitals through insurance companies, So you are
(05:14):
not just like for me, it's not just that you
care about black maternal health, but you know how to
work the system to get the resources to the people
that need them the most. And so welcome lay them
to the brand and vision podcast.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Much Mandy, It's such a pleasure and honor to be here.
I really appreciate you. I also fell in love fast
friends you know, we met, and so I'm just grateful.
Mama Goo is a global maternal health and education platform,
but really the goal is training doulas, nurse care managers
(05:48):
and providing doula matching services to families, hospital systems designing
doula benefits. And then really, you know, as we think
about it as not your anewer, which many people are
who do this work, we want doulos to thrive, and
so we also help to ensure that people get paid
and paid well for the work that they're doing and
(06:11):
ensure that we can make impact. And so like as
you said, the three thousand dulas that we've trained, are
you active in the world and been doing work. They
work with us because we have also a platform where
we can match do thos with families, but then they
also work out in the world and have their own businesses, right,
and so one of those really become a really powerful
platform for expanding opportunity. But then also the Foundation has
(06:37):
been a really wonderful opportunity for us to advance research
and scholarship as well as DOLA matching services for families
that are in need. And so we actually provide pro
bono doula services across the country and in New York
City we're the largest provider of pro bono doula services
for families in need. And so if you need a
(06:58):
doula and you're in the city of New York. You're
likely getting a doulah through Momo Glow if you're Medicaid eligible,
and so we're really excited to be able to offer
that as well. Yeah, I'm so proud of the work
that we do daily. But also I always had a
dream of being able to do that, right, Like, I've
had people reach out to me, some people reach out
(07:20):
to me on social or friends reach out and they're like, hey,
I have someone in my family who needs a service.
And because typically people would pay for this service, right,
you know, and it can be thousands, right depending on
how you won. Yeah, typically thousands of dollars. And so
to be able to say, like I asked, you know,
can they afford it? Or you know, what's their position
(07:42):
they're in, and they'll say yeah, you know, they're not
really the position. I'm like, okay, great, have them thought
this form and we can provide a doula. And so
just being able to do that and have a system
in place and have funding to cover it and then
sure that the dulos are paid well, is you know,
really a dream.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
But I have to start with a basic question. Sure,
how did you start Mama Glow, Where did it come from?
What were you doing before? And then when did it?
When did it become what it is today?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Is so I I started Mama Glow after my son
was born. I was living in New York City, which
I never really left, and I was a new mother,
and I had noticed along the pregnancy continuum that it
was really just challenging to navigate the care system here. Thankfully,
(08:32):
I connected with midwives, and so my son was born
in a birth center on Fourteenth Street, and I had
this amazing experience of feeling supported and just really like
everything I needed was there, Like the midwives, you know,
supported my autonomy, respected me in the in the practice
(08:53):
of delivering my son, and I had this like incredible
out of body spiritual experience that sort of led to
this vision, but also the sacred mandate and what I've
been really referring to as a calling, you know, to
do this work. And so my son's twenty one now,
So this is like twenty two years ago right that
I feel this inside of me surfacing, And so it
(09:16):
was really a matter of like, well, how do I
go about it? And I didn't have the business skills
or acumen, but I did have like a high business
IQ and what I mean by that is a lot
of us who you know, have the tenacity and the
sort of interest, but also the healthy dose of naivete
(09:38):
who will like go for something you know, can start things.
And I also have a stubborn quality being a tourist.
I don't quit stuff, and so if I start something,
I never quit.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I'm like a hippie.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
So I was like, I want to have it at
home or I want to have it like I knew that.
So I couldn't have it at my my son's father's house.
His apartment was too small. I didn't want to do
it there. So I was like, I want to find
a place where you know I can do it.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
But I did go to.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I won't say their name, but I did you know
before I found the birth center, I was supposed to
deliver in a hospital. And then I went to the
meetings and I was like, uh uh, I'm not something
they right, And I didn't even I didn't even really
question it. Once I had the feeling that this doesn't work,
I was like, we're moving forward and finding something new
(10:32):
that feels right, and this is me as like at
like twenty three right, I'm like somethingday right in the milk.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Let's figure it out.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
And then so I found this birth center because we
were walking back and forth and because I knew it
from night life, I just would pass by it all
the time.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
And we were like, let's go in.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
And we went in and we had a great conversation
with the staff and they said, come in for like
an open house kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Find out that they took my insurance. And here's another thing.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I didn't go there at first because I didn't think
I belonged, right. I didn't think that me as a
person who was basically underinsured because I was fresh out
of college. So my insurance ended a year after I
finished college. So by the time I was pregnant with
my son, like, I didn't have insurance coverage, right, and
so so then I was able to get on Medicaid
(11:23):
and they were like, yes, we take Medicaid. And so
my copays were like five dollars. My son costs six
dollars to take home. He was like a bargain baby deal. Okay,
my goodness, it was six dollars.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right, So this is the coverage that I got, and
it was amazing because again, you know, everyone treated me
with autonomy, with respect with love. They didn't say, oh,
this is this type of patient, you know, because we
understand that good insurance to medicaid there is a gradient
in terms of what you expect in terms of service
(11:59):
and what you had set in terms of you know,
people's attitude towards you. And if you have private insurance,
people expect to be treated well, and if you're on
you know, medicaid, people expect to be treated poorly and
also have poor access to care and even like you know,
their you know, like testing and diagnostics and things like
(12:20):
that you get locked out of because of insurance apartheid.
And so I was so fortunate right to have this
experience at a younger age, and I think, you know,
I knew inside it was something inside of me that
knew I wanted to do it this way. And I'm
thankful that at the time I had the support of
my son's father and I had this sort of internal compass,
(12:43):
right that kind of guided me in the direction of
doing it. But also I think God had a plan
of like, you need to have this experience, you need
to be able to sort of use this. This is
the origin story for what you're going to give rise to, right,
and so I needed to have this to kind of
have a trajectory of working in women's health, laying the foundation,
(13:04):
laying the bricks right for what will become. Mama glow
down the line. And I think for me, you know,
that experience and then the shift from working as an
individual because I did have that calling to individually serve
as a doula, right, and I learned so much. I'm
asked so much information and in service. But then Mandy,
(13:25):
one time there was a there was a moment, right,
And I think everybody experiences this too, right at any
stage in business and what they're growing something you have
an opportunity. I feel like that arises in each of
us where we're inside of this configuration and things are
(13:47):
going well, but you're being asked to do more or
called to do something bigger and so the container that
you're inside of no longer fits. It's like when you
have to repot your plants, right.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
You know, to expand and to be you know.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Like my son busting out of as eighteen month onesie girl,
Like Mama, I'm almost too. It's a time give it up?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Can we talk about it well? Overnight? Like it's gonna
throw the close. Okay, overnight they outgrow these clothes. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So you feel that call to expand, and some of
us will show up and answer it and be like, Okay,
I'm going to step into this thing that feels really
scary and uncertain and I don't know because I'm super
comfortable here, but like something's pulling me and also even
almost in some cases forcing me to move beyond. And
so I had that, I had that experience where it
(14:43):
was not just enough to serve as a doula. I
needed to build something bigger. And that's when Mama Glow
comes into being. Really is at a pivotal point culturally,
which is like how a lot of things come right
in terms of our uh, you know we think about
(15:03):
impact right and impact oriented work. Is that some critical
pieces of reporting came out Pro Publica and The New
York Times of Black Manternal Health, right, yes, and these right,
These were stories that shifted culture. It was groundbreaking that
there was finally this focus on things that we have
(15:25):
been talking about in silos for years that were happening
to us, and there was finally on central stage or
center stage, this discussion happening that permeated the globe, and
now everyone was talking about what it is like to
give birth in the United States if you are a
black birthing person, and that moment of that sort of
(15:48):
you know, earth shattering, and then subsequently more pieces come
and more stories absolute heartbreaking, heartbreaking is I mean in nature?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Absolutely right?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And to level set for folks we're talking about you know,
and many of you have heard these statistics, but to
share that black women in the United States are three
to four times more likely than white women to die
during childbirth or due to childbirth related causes, right, And
we're not talking about numbers. We were talking about individuals
and people with potential who pass on and leave behind
(16:23):
a legacy that is unfinished, and they have children who
have to then be raised by community. And when because
we know that black women are the crux of community,
when black women die, it actually just configures our communities.
And so because we are oriented differently than other communities, right,
and so it's not only just an individual tragedy, it's
(16:45):
a collective tragedy that we experience when this happens, right. So,
and so what I saw in that moment was to
create the program that would train the dulas because it
had to be bigger than me. It couldn't just be
me out here in the world. It's not effective enough.
And I had the knowledge, and I had the years
of experience. It was like it's time. So I developed
(17:08):
a program. I remember in twenty eighteen, I was super
nervous to you know, put out the flyers to announce it.
I waited until last minute because that's apropos of who
I am. I mean pretty much, I always do everything
last minute. And so here we go. I launched the
flyer like two weeks before the class is supposed to start,
and Mandy, Oh my days. It filled in the next one.
(17:31):
I did that within nine months. We expanded from New
York to La Miami in Paris, and then COVID hits
in twenty twenty and it's like, what do we do now, right,
because this is an in person experience, So in three
weeks we pivot to online. We test internally with the
you know, like the group of people that we have.
(17:53):
Basically we grew like eightfold overnight, eightfold.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Heyba fam, We're going to take a quick break, pay
some bills, and we'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
The classes were now like hundreds of people in each class,
people were home because of COVID, right, so they're able
to be online. And so we had not only the
limit the limit the lack of limitation because of online,
but also we had people who were literally at home
trying to find purpose, and so all those people came
in and it was incredible, and so we we actually
(18:30):
really grew the business and COVID. Where many people were
winding down or sunsetting businesses, we were like catapulted and
COVID and so it was actually a blessing for us.
And so while our in person courses and training and
programs you know, had to collapse during that time, the
online really shot up and then we found really innovative
(18:50):
ways to like support community and really support and and
actually pour into the doulas in ways that we couldn't
in the beginning, or not even saying that we couldn't,
but just it was a different focus because we were
in person, so we didn't have to think about like
the fact that people were isolated, and now we're thinking
through how to maintain their well being, their mental health,
(19:12):
how to create you know, community online and spaces for
them for self care while they're still practicing and living
through a public health and you know, a global public
health crisis, right, and so so that's how it kind
of expanded. But it was really, you know, not something
that I started from a lens of I'm going to
(19:33):
go this crazy business.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
It's going to be huge.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
It was more just like, you know, this is what
I would like to do, and I knew in this moment,
and I was like, I'm just going to keep putting
one foot in front of the other. And and I
would also always write down and like project map what
I wanted to create, even if I was under resourced,
So even in the times where I could not actually
see it through, I would project map as if it
(19:58):
was already happening. And I I've done that my whole career.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Like I'll sit here.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
It's not like really vision boarding, because I do that too,
but it is literally like sort of mapping your your
sort of business arc and really diving into a roadmap
and having it in the background almost like you know,
(20:24):
when you're in a restaurant and there's like that music
playing in the background. It's and you're just like not
tuned in, but you kind of oh, there's thing, you know,
one of your favorite songs, and then you kind of
go back into what you're doing. It's like that like
that thing stays in the background, and so I'm always aware.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And so then when something.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Does surface that we achieve that was in that roadmap, right,
like i'd stop, I acknowledge, and I also like go
back to that.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
And I look to see what other things so that
I'm also becoming more aware of what I'm continuing to do,
but also to like loop into where I was and
then versus where I am. And so it's been a
great exercise.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I'm a visual learner as well, so like these types
of things are helpful.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And then guess what.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
We were able to work with CBS ETNA to develop
a do a competency training for nurse care managers for
CEU credits, and so then I was able to take
a train that we already had distill it down to
a three hour program for CEU credits for nurses and
so then I was like I checked that off, right,
And so things like that right where you know, I
(21:34):
didn't know how it would happen. But when you're and
I feel like you shouldn't always try to figure out how,
because part of the journey is like you need to
come up with the vision, right, and the vision has
to be expansive, it has to be bigger than you
have to also feel unattainable because along the way, along
(21:55):
the way, you encounter solutions, you encounter contacts, resources, and
sometimes find your way to that thing or something like it,
or even something better. And so for me, I was
able to achieve that thing that I set out for,
but then even something better where we were able to
work within healthcare systems in ways that I had not imagined, right, So,
(22:17):
but because that was one of the pathways, it created
an opening for other things. But I think also too,
the consistency of action for me has one of the
things that I feel like has had to stand out because,
like I said before, you know, if you're moving around,
you're balancing, like, if you're not focused, then people can't see.
(22:40):
People have such a low attention span these days, right,
and so you think that they see your work and
they don't and so or they're like, oh I think
I saw this, or it's just there's too much coming
at people. So if you're not consistent, they don't know
what to plug into or to focus on, or they
don't even know how to their brain doesn't know what
(23:03):
to do right. And then also I think that when
you're asking, you know, if you think about or have
a belief in a higher power, if you're asking for
support and benevolence and guidance and strength on this journey,
but you keep switching, it's like hard to because then
you're gonna get the thing you ask for, but you're
(23:24):
gonna be gone, you know, onto the next thing. And
so you got to also focus so that you can
prepare for the blessing right. And so that's what I
always try to do too, is like I need to
stay right where I am so that when that thing
that I ask for and that I've been working towards arise,
I actually have the capacity to hold it because I've
been building towards expanding you know, the platform and the
(23:48):
ability to scale the business. And I live for people
saying to me like how they were impacted. I live
for being able to support you know, staff, you know,
and them living their dreams and being able to live
full lives. I live for things like that. I live for,
you know, my son, Like we live for our kids too, right.
(24:08):
But I think it helps to do this for yourself
because sometimes people don't acknowledge, and many of us, especially
here as we're talking about women of color, we are
not acknowledged for our gifts, for our brilliance, for the
for the singular, I mean, how singular we are when
(24:30):
we step into a space over.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
The only one and people will act.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Like we are not here and that we are not
doing the damn thing, and it will in some ways,
it can cut, and it can feel like a thousand
tiny cuts, and sometimes you don't feel like you have
the ability to keep going, especially if things get challenging,
if no one's acknowledging the good you're doing.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
And so sometimes it's.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Like doing these practices of cloaking yourself with love of
remind yourself that you're worthy, and also envisioning yourself being acknowledged. Also,
I think feels really good, especially in a world that
is always telling black and brown women and girls that
we are not enough, and we are and by the way,
(25:15):
you know how I know we are because we don't
have a choice, because we have to be forced to
outperform everybody, which is why you see black women the
most educated population in this country, and we're talking about
the United States highly educated, not because we wanted to
get all these degrees because we had to to be
(25:37):
able to compete. And by the way, when we get
into positions, and we were in positions of leadership and power,
we could have ran the whole thing. By the time
we get into a position where a subordinate is maybe
paid more as somebody who's alongside us, maybe paid even
comparably or more, but we're doing ten times the amount
of work. And so I know that we sit inside
(25:59):
of this face of being unacknowledged. I know we sit
inside of spaces where we are not reminded of our
brilliance and how amazing we are, and a lot of
times we do not feel loved. And I'm here to
remind us that. You know, part of it is creating
community so we can feel that. And then part of
it is like a cloaking of self love, constantly speaking,
(26:19):
blessing over yourself, constantly being in a space where we
do not do what we have been taught, which is
to self criticize, but to actually self actualize. That is
our job here, because nobody can do the work you
were put here to do.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I can help bring it out of you, but I
can't help you do it. Mandy could sit here and
podcast all day and remind you about who the fuck
you are, But if you don't actually get up and
go do it, like, it's this amazing wasted potential right
Like it's like if you can't do the thing that
you were put here to do, like, then we don't
(26:56):
get to see it. And that, to me is the shame.
Is there's somebody out there who decides not to keep going,
like we don't get to see the brilliance and we
don't get to benefit from it as a community. And
so as black women, I always want to remind us
that that pouring in is so critical to keep going.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Thank you for that. Just listen to you build us
up all day. I mean, I think self love is
so crucial. It is a practice though, because there's days
where I am like so good to myself and there
are days when I'm so mean to her and I'm
just like, no, not too much on my friend Mandy,
like let's be kind yes, be kind of me, And
he said bullying stop stop stop the self bullying. Yeah, absolutely,
(27:38):
but it has to come from within, and I ice, yeah,
so that is a constant practice. I want to talk
just about Mike, I want to talk about I want
to be I want to admit I'm a little bit
ignorant of the work of doulas and the work of
I mean, I had pretty cookie cutter, vanilla pregnancy and
birthing experiences. I know, I'm very lucky. I also recognize
(28:00):
my privilege. I'm a light skinned woman of color. But
I want to talk about the doula, Like, yes, doula
versus midwife, what are we question?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
What are we getting?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
What all comes with that? And what can you expect
and how do you know if you need one yeah
or not?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
So first of all, I love that you have asked
what the difference is, because there is one, and there's
many differences, I should say, between douls and midwives. So
midwives are clinical care providers who are trained to provide
support along the entire women's health continuum.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
So you can work with.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
A midwife for well woman care and well care throughout
your reproductive journey, starting from men's thees through menoplause, right,
And these would be typically people who were in our
community and Midwiffree is actually one of the oldest known professions, right,
So we've always had midwives and this work is actually
really ancient, right, and so what they do is low
(28:59):
risk burn and that's typically for people who are you know,
like healthy and wanting to do birth in one of
three settings. It could be home, it could be a
birth center, and in some cases hospitals that do have
midwives on staff, right, and those would be certified nurse
midwives who will be on staff and hospitals, and so
(29:21):
it would depend on your choice and your avenue that
you select. So midwives are an option. The midway three
model of care centers the family and their needs and
so it doesn't center around the needs of those providing
the care, but those receiving the care. And that's a
difference in what we see in our normal sort of
(29:42):
healthcare model where the doctor is sort of at there's
a hierarchy and the doctor's at the top, right, and
it's really the physician that's centered versus the patient. So
doula is a non clinical care provider, meaning that they
provide all of the things outside of the clindict experience.
So that is going to be emotional support along the
(30:05):
pregnancy and birth continuum. It'll be education, advocacy tools. If
you have a partner present, they're going to support your
partner and get them up to speed on how to
best support you through the process.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
And also it's about you know what my client's call is.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
It like having a producer for your birth right, somebody
who's thinking about every aspect of this experience and how
it will go for you and making sure that you
have everything you need to navigate the experience.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Now, a couple things to think about.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
You know when we talk about advocating, and we constantly
have this conversation about black women advocating for themselves and
you got to advocate, you got to advocate, yes, but
let me give a caveat There's two things that I
like to say about this. One is that you cannot
advocate in birth. At the same time, birthing is about surrender,
It's about transcendence. It's about opening, softening, being vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
You have to be in.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
A space where you feel safety, you feel dignity, you
feel belonging, you feel like you are held, and in
that you can actually the hormones that are designed to
help facilitate birth can actually flow.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
The experience can flow.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
If you are fighting for your life, if you are
fighting for your safety, if you have to compromise your
safety for your dignity. If any of these things are
happening where you do not feel comfortable, you cannot birth.
So I want to just say that, because this idea
of advocating is about defending. It's about self defending. It's
(31:35):
about self really, it's about you know, protecting yourself. How
can I also protect myself but then also birth right?
I can do one or the other. I cannot do both.
And so we need to create atmospheres and settings that
do not require advocacy, that do not require me to
fight for my safety, fight for my dignity, fight to
(31:57):
be seen and heard, fight for medication for pain, fight
for like I should not be having to do this, right,
And this is what black women have been saying all
along when they talk about the experience of medical racism
in hospital settings. Right, that's number one. The other thing
I want us to think about when it comes, you know,
to this process is you know, in lieu of or editation,
(32:18):
in addition to not being able to advocate, you know,
while you're actually trying to birth your babies, is that
you know, when we're moving through this process, you know,
we feel this is a space of deep vulnerability.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Right, this is a space where.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
You know people are not able to when you're when
you're actually birthing, a couple of things happen.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Your brain is in an altered state of consciousness. And
what typically happens is there's a lot of decisions that
you're being asked to make when you're not in the
frame of mind to actually make those decisions, right. And
so a lot of things happen that are non consensual
that people feel coerced in to doing or consenting to
(33:04):
and setting in a setting where they should be protected.
And so another thing, what like, well like signing a
paper for an epidural, Right, Like, how can I do
that when I'm in active labor and I'm in and
I'm in pain, and I'm in and out of contractions.
How can I sign ten pages of paperwork and read
(33:25):
it and really understand what I'm signing off for?
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Right? Yeah, And so you can't write, you can't do
it in that state. And so I think.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
That you need a birthing plan.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
That is why you need a plan, but also you
need a duelah.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
But you also need to read this information know about
it before.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
We can't be in the moment trying to figure it
all out.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
And I think the thing that my hospital did do
is they were like, we need a birth plan and
a lot of their nurses were midwives, I believe.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, I got this really nice hospital. I'm curious though,
like when I I think about doulas or midwives, is
that person catching the baby?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So the midwife absolutely could catch the baby. A doula
is there as support, so it is not there to
deliver the baby, but they are there to like be
an extra set of hands, someone who's helping you. Yeah,
they're like, are you the leader for your birth?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Is it best to have both? Yes, you need the combo.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
You need the combo. It's it's because it's a dream team.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Because it's like the clinicians do clinician things right, So
they're birthing the baby, they're monitoring you, making sure that
you're safe, taking care of all the clinical needs. But
then the doula can do all the emotional stuff, like
you know, like feeding you the water between contractions, you know,
giving you massage or or comfort measures while you're experiencing pain,
(34:47):
you know, breathing with you, maybe saying okay, let's walk
or let's dance or let me you know, use this
technique on you, right, yeah, dancing, he's very helpful right
in labor. But you know, changing position is you know,
like all these they.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Push the peanut ball in between the flip you over.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
All of these things, right, the hands on support is
what the dula is doing. But another thing, like to
think about it like this, I always say to people,
like our job is to protect your memory of the experience, right,
Like I'm here to think about how you recall your birth.
I want to I'm invested in that story, right, I'm
invested in what that looks like when you tell people
(35:29):
what happened, when you recall it for yourself, when you
tell it to your children. What are you saying, right
when you when you have that, when you undergo the experience,
what is the story you tell? And part of what
we're doing is preserving that, right, preserving the experience, preserving
the memory of the experience. And the doula is there
(35:49):
really like as that you know, the keeper of the
birth village, right, Like there's a bunch of people who
are part of the birth right. You might have a
lactation provider, massage therapist, ttritionist. You have your OB or
your midwife, and you would have an OB or a midwife, right,
Like typically people would have one or the other, and
then they would have a doula, right, And so the
(36:11):
OB's and adula's work together if that's what you select
to work with an obgin or if you decide to
work with a midwife, and the midwife and the doula
work together, which is great. You know, and people you know,
if they're going to do a hospital birth. Not everybody's
a candidate for hospital birth. Some people are better for
home birth or out of hospital birth and a birth center.
Some people are better suited for that experience. And then
(36:32):
some people are most comfortable but also best suited in hospitals,
depending on like what some of their needs are, right
and regardless of what you have going on, even if
you have a complicated birth plan, like some people know
that they have a C section plan because of a
health concern, a doula is tremendously helpful in that experience
as well as a postpartumer recovery experience.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I think the postpartum experience is one that is so
I mean, maybe it's just me, but I feel like
there's a lot of focus before and during the labor,
but then after it's very much like maybe you'll get
someone to come squeeze your boob for you and teach
you how to do the seahold. And now there are
more resources. I remember I went to lactation elactation support
(37:18):
group at my hospital after I had to seek that
kind of stuff out though. And just having a non mother,
like a non relative of yours, but just someone who's
there for your best interests and who really knows what
to expect. I wish. I love the idea of having
that sort of resource postpartum. So when yeah, and is
that something that a doula can provide? Like you know,
(37:41):
there's the feeding and like the are they sleeping enough?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Am I?
Speaker 1 (37:45):
You know, like how can I navigate this? Is this normal?
Is that normal?
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, So there's a couple things so postpartum doulas this
is the role right to come in and make sure
that you feel confidence in your transition into new parenthood.
A couple things to think about with right is that
you have things like baby nurses. Right, they come in,
they're thinking about sleep, they're changing diapers or feeding babies
or doing a lot of like hands on support, but
(38:10):
they are not really there for you. And when you
just gave birth, right, like, the people who are there
for you really is that postpartum doula who's helping you
with recovery, helping you to get those underwear on if
you have like the pad sickles and you're putting on
the postpartum underwear, and it's a whole thing. Helping with
things like that, Helping with meals right, maybe organizing a
(38:32):
meal train, making sure you're having adequate nutrition postpartum, you know,
helping you with things like organization like how am I
going to organize the nursery or my space? Or where
the diapers go versus where the breastmelt goes versus where
the bottles go, like all these things helping you to
put things in order and organize your life for success. Right,
(38:53):
So they're thinking about systems as well and also there
for you to help you build confidence as new parents.
So a do look can also help you as you're
changing diapers, help you with you know, skills or with swaddling,
teaching you things but also not doing it for you
so much as like helping you do it and then
thinking about like okay, when the baby goes down, like
(39:13):
it's time for you, right, So they'll observe feedings, they'll
you know, make sure you're eating, resting. But then also,
you know, we'll spend some time helping you process your
labor experience, do things like you know, like recap that
experience with you. Maybe also even you know, help you
to if you've had some experience where maybe there was
(39:36):
challenge come on the other side of that, to be
able to you know, process that experience that you're not
carrying the pain of what that might have been like
or trauma for some people into the next experience right
or into your parenting right, and just you to close
out and experience of birthing as well.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Right, Hey, ba fam, we're gonna take a quick b
pay some bills, and we'll be right back. Welcome back,
be a fan. Let's get back to the show. That's
such an interesting point, especially if you've had a not
great experience. Sometimes you're in the moment and you don't
really know how to process it, and then afterward you
start replaying things and then it can start to really
(40:18):
like oh that's and so with a doula, I mean,
do you just you just show up at a certain
hour like okay, postpartum, I'm going to have you here
from two to five pm every day, or.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
You design it.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
However, for folks who find the right dula, right, there's
a vibe, there's an energy. So when you're meeting in
your interview and you're like, oh, like we get along
really well, and you think, oh, we have some cultural
you know, things that main line up or this is
happening in my life, and you're like, oh cool. So
it's like there's sometimes these these areas of interest or
(40:51):
overlap in terms of like culture or lifestyle or background
and things like that that can also help ridge those gaps.
But most of the time, when people are looking for this,
they're kind of ready right to like open up and
or need a container to open up into. And oftentimes,
more often than not, people are isolated in this experience.
(41:12):
A lot of people come to it and they don't
have friends who've had kids, or they may be the
only friend that they'ell pregnant at the time, or they
may be a new city or whatever's happening in their life,
or like you lived through COVID, right, like a lot
of people having babies in isolation with no family members around,
Like that's struggle, that's hard trauma, right, Like it's.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Hard for me to go back to that time.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
I could understand why, because there's a lot there, right,
And so the doula's role is to help mitigate that
and to help you feel more safe.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
And calm, but also held.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
In your vulnerability. Like I like to think about how
we swaddle newborns, like swaddling a new family, swallowing a
new mother as they navigate this experience, right, and then
Dula does that really well?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yeah, I mean for you as the doula, it must
be hard to make that connection and then move on
down the road. Pack up your little doula suitcase.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Do you stay in.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Touch with your There's a lot of women in touch
with still and folks.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Did I read that you were Alicia Keys's doula? I
was is that like a known? I was like that,
I thought that was public?
Speaker 3 (42:21):
It is, like, I love her really great.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
We actually get to do a partnership later from Mother's Day,
which I'm so excited about.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
She does strike me as she is so ethereal and earth,
just like of course she would have a doula.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Yeah, she was so into it. It was great. I
love her. Yeah, so she's great.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
So do you still do it? I mean, like, is
it hard for you as a business now your business
is growing, now you're training a.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Doulas it's anymore.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Unfortunately, because of my schedule, you know, because university my
course was embedded at Brown University, where I teached right,
medical students, medical collegy students, bioethics, public health, they'll be
guying pre med.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
I mean, I think as entrepreneurs, So thepreneurs, you're hoping
to get to that level where you're not having to
do the you know, the day to day and that
you can focus on the bigger picture growth strategy and
just increasing the reach.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yes, creating more opportunities and all that.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Yeah, which which is better a better use of my
time as an individual, right to make more opportunity for
three thousand people who are in our network versus something
just for me, right, And so so that's how I
kind of see, you know, but I have had the
privilege of doing you know, I think the last you know,
(43:41):
I would say, the last couple of births, it was
really like one a year, you know, because I was
doing like three to four month, you know, back in
the day. But yeah, so then I got to like,
you know, I would say like last year, the in
the year before was like once you know that I
was able to do them for people who I really love,
like I've done you know, like Alicia like you said,
and Ashley Graham and Hath the way, DJ Khaled, you
(44:05):
know a lot of you know people, And I guess.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
All these people have home births. I think actually Graham
had a home birth right for her twins. She had
a home birth yea, and she posted something about that, sorry,
she had.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Two home births.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
It looks so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Yeah, I'm like, damn.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
I mean I had a great, beautiful experience that I
will cherish it. But it also looks I mean, just
the pictures. I love looking at pictures of births now
and some people get weirded out by it. But it
is the most beautiful.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Thing is because you know, it's just I.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Could just get like I'm like buzzing just thinking about it. Magic.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
It's awesome also because it happens once, right, Like you
only have one birthday, you know, and then after that
it's just anniversaries every year it's one birthday. And so
when you capture that, you're capturing the one time that
someone arrived for the very first and only time to
this planet. Right through this portal of the body from
(45:04):
heaven or ever that came through darkness into light. They
are born. And it only happens once and each time,
and you've been able to do it twice, right, each time,
it's the first time again, right, Like it's the only
time with that baby each time, right, And so you
get to do it over and over, which is beautiful
if you do it more than once, and you've had
(45:25):
the opportunity to be reborn again into motherhood. But like
people have to understand what we want to protect is
the sancty this experience, because it is holy, it is otherworldly.
It is to be protected. They come on the other
side of that, it's like they can use the power
(45:45):
that emerges from that experience of birthing to ask for
increase in their pay at work, to ask for a raise.
They can use that energy to ask and demand from
what they want. In other spaces, they use that to
claim up take up more space in the world. Literally,
your body expands and takes up more space, right like
(46:06):
the ones who get to live into that power in
that moment bring that with them, and so that is
another reason why it has to be protected.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
It's not just about huge opportunity, well.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Process, it is a huge opportunity for us to actually
become more self actualized.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
If you come to Momaglo doula training, you'll learn all
of this, which is what doulas are learning, nurses are learning,
healthcare providers are learning because it needs to be known,
and we are the market leader. So if you want
to learn how to do this, if you want to
have this experience for yourself, you can hire one of
our duels, which you certainly come to the training, and
we have lots of people who come wh they're pregnant
because they want to be able to carry this with
(46:49):
them into these spaces so that they feel informed. Right,
And so that's another thing to think about too. Take
doula training just to even prepare you for birth itself.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Right, that's really smart. Yeah, yeah, Well.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
We'll make sure that all the links are in the
show notes. Late than I could talk to you forever,
Lathan Thomas, thank you so much, y'all. You chok the
show notes for Mama glow, how to go to all
of the trainings if you want to get doula certified
trained what's the word? Okay, certified and find out more
about our beautiful I want to call you the Globe, Maven,
(47:24):
because that's fine. You are on Instagram find her at
the Globe. Even what else did I forget?
Speaker 3 (47:31):
I'm just so label.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
I'll have you back. We'll have you back.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Yeah, I try to come back. But I love you.
I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
I just have to say this, y'all, that people like
Mandy and what you are doing here, and even when
I met you, I was like, Okay, first of all,
like fast friends, love her energy all the way, like
just immanating energy, like dripping in love and support of
other women. But the other thing that I really love
(47:58):
is that you're, like, you know, talking about how you
want to continue to build what you all have done
so beautifully here to impact more of us. And I
love that you were like not it was not enough.
Like as she was speaking to me when we met
at Afrotech, one of the things I took away was
(48:19):
that there was this level of satisfaction, like look what
we've done, but also I know we can do more.
And it was like that that I found really inspiring,
that you want to continue to impact people, you want
to continue to touch people, and that you're driven to
(48:39):
do so. And so I just think that's amazing because
sometimes we get to a place where we're like this
is cool, and then we shift our focus. And what
I found in meeting you was that you were like, no,
this is time to go deeper and then find other
ways to do more and explore other tentacles. And I
(49:00):
found that to be really refreshing. But also just know, y'all,
she reaches everybody. This is an amazing pod. I'm so
honored to be on here. I was so excited to
be invited. First of all, I feel honored because I'm
listening like this is one of my shower listens, by
the way, So I'm thankful to be on here, and
I just appreciate you so much for the opportunity and
(49:21):
thank you again.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Listen. The way that we guess each other up as
black women should be studied by science, because literally my
face hurts from just like the smile I've had to
have plastered on this.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Old time regular offer.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
And I'm just thankful for you I'm so thankful to
know you too, Latham, and whatever forces came together to
put us at that dinner table together. Just thank you
all right, back at you love all right, Thank you
so much for joining me. La than ba Fam. Check
the show notes for all links and how you can
stay tuned and learn more about Mama Glue. Okay, be
(49:59):
a fam. Thank you, Thank you so much for listening
to this week's show. I want to shout out to
our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our fearless leader
for idea to launch productions. I want to shout out
my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for helping me
put the show together. It is not a one person project,
(50:20):
as much as I have tried to make it so
these past ten years. I need help, y'all, and thank
goodness I've been able to put this team around me
to support me on this journey and to y'all bea fam.
I love you so so so so much. Please rate, review, subscribe,
make sure you sign up to the newsletter to get
all the latest updates on upcoming episodes, our tenth year
(50:42):
anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time, talk to you,
soon via buye
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