March 14, 2025 • 38 mins
🔥 In this episode of Brown Ambition, Mandi sits down with Jessica Cruel, the powerhouse Editor-in-Chief of Allure and SELF magazines, to talk about her journey to the top of the beauty media world and how she’s building wealth through real estate investing as a single woman.
👑 We dive into:
✔️ How Jessica climbed the ranks in the magazine industry
✔️ Her journey to financial independence & the FIRE movement
✔️ The ups and downs of being a single woman in real estate
✔️ Smart investing tips for first-time buyers
✔️ The power of mentorship, executive coaching, and community
💰 Jessica shares the exact team she built to succeed in real estate:
✔️ A real estate agent who understands investment properties
✔️ A reliable general contractor & trusted repair professionals
✔️ A financial team to maximize tax benefits & long-term wealth
🔑 Key Takeaways:
1️⃣ Don’t wait for the “perfect time” to start investing—learn as you go!
2️⃣ Build a strong team to support your real estate journey.
3️⃣ Wealth-building is possible at any stage of your career.
📌 Follow Jessica Cruel:
📸 Instagram: @JCruel
🌟 Allure: allure.com
🌟 SELF: self.com
💡 Subscribe for more career, wealth, and entrepreneurship insights and don't forget to leave us a review! It's a huge help to get the show seen by more listeners.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Heyba Fam, I could not be more excited to introduce
you to my guest in the studio this week, looking
a vision in red. I don't know if y'all were
like me growing up, but becoming a magazine editor was
that just every millennial teenage girls like fantasy. You know,
we all wanted to be a tusive Rubin scene from
seventeen and that that was like it. That was the
(00:25):
only sort of like famous editor I knew growing up,
but I in high school that was my dream. I
wanted to become a magazine editor. I was going to
have my own magazine for girls like me. And I
did actually, you know, pursue my career in journalism and
got into magazines and very quickly got kicked out because
of the recession. But when I see an exception to
that rule, and an exception who is also passionate, like
(00:48):
we are at Brown Ambition of teaching women about personal
finance and about becoming financially independent and investing and building wealth,
It's like, Okay, no brainer, I have to have this
woman on. So without further ado, I want to welcome
Jessica Krule to the Brown Ambition. Fam to the studio.
Welcome and for those who For those who don't know,
(01:10):
Jessica is the editor in chief of Allure magazine as
well as Self Magazine because she's not busy enough. Now
she's the magazine of not one but sorry, the editor
in chief of not one, but two major magazines, and
in that role she leads the development of multiplatform editorial content,
so digital, social video. And of course we're all familiar
(01:30):
with the Allure Best of Beauty Awards franchise. So and
then we got twenty twenty five coming up. We're excited
to see what's made the cut. So, Jessica, thank you
so much for joining me. I'm Brown Ambition, thank you
so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'm a longtime listener, first time participant. Yes, I'm a fan.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I listen to a lot of personal finance and finance
podcasts and you all are definitely on my list.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh that's amazing to hear. So we're doing something right, yes,
for sure, doing something right. Okay, so we have some
stuff in common. One journalism magazines. Did you study journalism?
Was that your career path?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I went to the University of North Carolina in Chapel
Hill and got my degree in journalism and sociology, which
was kind of like my side degree.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
But yeah, I went to J school, so that's another
thing we have in common. I went to a big
state school too, University of Georgia.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Oh my goodness. My dad wanted me to go there
so bad. That's all right, But because I'm originally from.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Georgia, I'm from Georgia. I'm from all Benny, Georgia.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh many, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
But also, you know you mentioned you wanted to make
a magazine for girls, just like you. Actually, my senior
project in high school was a magazine called Onyx, and
it was a magazine for black girls.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And yeah, I still have it to this day, which is.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So rare, a physical magazine that you play.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, it was a physical magazine and I was on
both covers, the flip cover of course, I'm smart.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
As Oprah and Jessica putting on every color cover. Oh man,
yes I too. I And you know what I realized,
Jessica in this moment, this is really it's kind of
hitting me with a wave right now. Is I still
did do that. It's just a podcast, not a magazine.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Exactly, which is which is you know something I always
tell you know, people, I mentor is that sometimes the
job that you're meant for or the job that you want.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Doesn't exist yet.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
You know, when you were at UGA, When I was
at UNC, podcasting wasn't what it is today. It was
still very much so radio and like MPR, and so
this is a medium that has really grown in the
years that we have grown ourselves. And so you never
know what career is waiting for you and how your
(03:54):
dream and skill set is going to be used and
new and inciting.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, if I could go back, I'd probably tell Baby
Mandy or anyone else like in college or dreaming up
your career, it's just like to be open to the ride,
like if you know, the skills remained the same. I
was so my like my identity was so wrapped up
in being a writer and an editor and being in
the publishing world. And I did end up there. When
(04:23):
I told you, I got hired at a magazine. Reader's
Digest was my first job in New York. That's what
got me. That was my ticket out of Georgia, me
and my little suitcase. And when I moved up here,
this was a winter of twenty ten, so fifteen.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Fifteen years Jesus.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Anyway, moving along, and three months in I was let
go and then I but that was such a gift
because I pivoted into legal and then eventually business and
then financial content and this whole you know, just like
this epiphany that I had about my fine is in
wealth building and this education. So I love that you
(05:04):
said that, And it's like you're still being true to
your to yourself from when you were younger, but just
being open to that the picture made just look different
over time. Yeah, all right, So what's your story as
far as studying journalism? How do you move to New
York City and just make the dream that we all
(05:25):
dreamt come true for yourself?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, similar to what you said, I actually moved here
in summer twenty eleven, so one year after you and
I came with the subly sent a suitcase and an
internship okay, and.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
An internship at a place called your Tango.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
And while I was there, Yeah, while I was there,
I was you know, networking, and I had another internship.
I think people often think when you graduate your colleges
will have a job, But in that you know, climate
what would.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Think that's kind of like the whole promise of a
freaking four year degree. Right at the least they could
give us a job, do you know what I mean? Yeah,
out of this world.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
That's not what happened.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I got two internships after I graduated, but I was
applying for full time jobs at the same time.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And then I got my first job.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
At Pop Sugar, and I worked there for several years,
and I worked my way up, you know, worked at
different publications, all focused on beauty. After those internships, I
realized beauty was the target of what I wanted to cover,
which also includes wellness in a lot of ways, and
so I worked my way up, worked at Self Magazine
(06:39):
for a while. I worked at Refinery between nine for
a while, and then about five years ago I landed
at A Lore, and three and a half years ago
I became editor in chief.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Of A Lore.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
That's a crazy fast track. I get the sense in
magazine world things changed quick, you know, headsby rolling and
moving around, and I think that's kind of exciting. But
it does feel like kind of a volatile, kind of
like an intense kind of industry or feel to work in.
Am I wrong?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because when I first came
to New York for my first internship, which happened to
be at self in four Time Square, and I remember
talking to some of the editors and they were like,
go back to school and figure out the Internet, you know,
because at that time print was very challenged as it
(07:32):
you know, you know, it's tough in print.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
And so I did that.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I went back home home to you know, North Carolina
where I was going to school, and I changed my
major from reporting, which was more of a print focus,
to multimedia.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
And so that's nice that you guys had one of those.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, we had a multimedia program.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Dusty magazine they let me. They I always joke that, like,
I think I was the last person to be allowed
to study a magazine like as a focus. So that
was when you were in college. Okay, what a great yes,
I you know what this is when it matters where
you get your internship, because my internship was at Reader's
Digest and they're probably like Internet, we're afraid of that.
(08:14):
But the fact that someone told you, like, girl, get ahead.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Of this, yeah, and that really helped me because you know,
it does move fast, and I was set.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Up for success in the digital realm. All my jobs
were digitally focused.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
And you know, as beauty became more and more about
social and TikTok, I was really set up to succeed
in the new ecosystem that is required of a publication
in this day and age.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean, what do you think the takeaway? I
mean for me career wise, because I also have a
career coaching practice, and I'm always trying to encourage women
to not get so wrapped up in the one job
that they have now, but keep their eye on the
bigger picture. So for you, what does that look like
even now? I mean, for I know, for a fact,
like having spoken to incredible people on the show, and
(09:02):
just for my own career, you think, in a you know,
in the seventeen year old version of myself, editor in
chief is like the mountaintop, but it's not really. It
can be just you know, a really nice you know,
a really nice vista on the way to where you
want to be. So in the picture of your career, like,
what do you really hope in envisioning for yourself?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
You know what I love about being editor in chief
is a storytelling I think that I rarely.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Get to do now because of veteran chief.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
You know, I think people think I too had that
dream of wearing a fancy suit, working in a big,
fancy building in New York, and you know, being a
badass in general. And I looked up one day and
I do get to do that. I get to do
and be those things, which is great.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
For me.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
I think as long as I continue to get to
tell stories of women, as long as I have a
platform to share knowledge, whether that be at a publication
like I do now with the Lauren's Self or on
my own personal platform, I think that is what really
excites me. The storytelling. I love to interview people. It's
one of my favorite things. I believe everyone has a
(10:13):
book in them, so, you know, I think a book
might be in my future.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I just love to tell stories, you know. I love podcasting.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Who knows, I might have a podcast in my future,
so who knows what that is. But the thing that
I really love about being Tter in Chief is nowadays
it's a lot like being a.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Business leader, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
So I have been able to take my expertise in
personal finance and learn a lot about business, you know,
running a business, running a P and L and all
of that in this job, which you know, journalism is
very creative. It's very words based, but now I'm very
in numbers based, so that that's really an interesting shift
(10:55):
for me.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What helped you there? Was it mentors? Was it? Did
you do more studying? Was it just like learning on
the job? What helped you in that sense?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I definitely was learning on the job, But I hired
an executive coach at my company was good enough to
provide me with an executive coach, And I recommend an
executive coach to everyone who's taking on a big leadership role,
managing a big team, doing a big change in their
career because the thing that is hardest about taking on
(11:24):
a role from more of an individual contributor role or
middle manager to kind of a corporate leader is the politics.
There's so many politics and interpersonal relationships that you have
to manage, and I felt like my executive coach really
helped me to learn how to navigate that because those
are things that people don't teach.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Your sawce skills.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
There's like making decks, which as a writer, I was like,
oh make that.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh my god, but you really have always a job
for the EA.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
You have to make decks as like a leader who
wants to get a point across and wants to ask
for investment. So, you know, these are things that I
really think an executive coach.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Can help with. Very smart, very smart, very work therapist.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Do you still work with them? How do you What
was that relationship ending? What was it?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Well, my time ended and I felt like I had
gotten a handle on it and I was able to
navigate on my own. And I do feel that if
there's a moment where I need to go back to them,
that that is open to me. But I do you
just come upon a point, you know, after a year
(12:35):
or so, I you know, after you've done all the
seasons of a role, I kind of feel like you're like, Okay,
I've done this before, Like I know this type of
time of year means, and you kind of get a
little accustomed to that and prepared for that mentally.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that they did that. Yeah,
and gave you that support that you needed. All right,
So where did your personal when did your personal finance journey? Again,
you said your expertise in it, So when did you
start building that is something that you grew up with or.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
You know, I grew up.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Knowing a little bit about money, you know, my grandparents
and my parents had stock in my name, like, so
I used to get those little mutual fund uh in
the mail, Like it would be so exciting to have
something with my name on it come in the mail.
And it was like reports of how my stock was
doing that my grandfather put aside for me.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
When I was first born. Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
So that is like the first time that I was like,
I got money, but it wasn't like serious, right, And
then I will say I was I'm a natural saver,
so know that. But I will say I've always been
very frugal, Like I went to school on full scholarship,
(13:52):
I still had a job because I was like I
just I was, I'm scared of being broke. I will say,
like being broken as my big So I really feel
like money has always been kind of something that I
made sure I had made sure that I was cautious
(14:12):
around saved a lot of it. But I feel like
I really started to plan around money.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
When I turned thirty.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Okay, and.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
It was after a breakup. I was with someone and
we were living together. He bought an investment property and
I watched the whole process of him getting an investment
property and then we broke up and we lit up
and had to move apart, and I started to think
about buying a house of my own.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I was like, well, I see what he was talking about.
If he can do it, I can do it.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
So I ended up starting to look for my first house,
which then led me to the Financial Independence Retirement early community.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Oh she a fire, girly yes.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And then I got serious and I was like, all right, boom,
what's the situation? What's my percentages? How much my am
maxing out my for a one k? I maxing out
my rock? You know, like I really got serious about
and also like saving for a house, buying a house
is an expensive purchase.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
What year around?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
So that was twenty nineteen when I bought my first house.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Twenty nineteen. Oh good timing.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, it was great timing.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I bought my first mine in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah good timing too, So my idea.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I hated every minute of it. My husband made me
do it.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Oh really really, now.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
He's gloating, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's cool.
But I wasn't thinking of it as an income property.
So when you bought your first property, wasn't meant to
be an income property.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
It was meant to be an income.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Okay, where'd you buy it?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I bought in Newark, New Jersey, and I was house
hacking brick City, yes, rick City, so and I was
house hacking. So I lived in the bottom and I
had two tenants at the top, in the top of
a duplex. So uh, it paid for itself and uh.
(16:01):
And once all the renovations were done, which was very
very interesting experience as a single woman doing renovations on
a house and dealing with contractors and all of that.
I you know, now I make money off of it,
which is great.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Oh nice. So eventually you were able to move out
of that duplex.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
No, so I actually still live there.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
So it's a duplex, but it has like the it's
like I have roommates basically, right, So it's two apartments,
but one of those apartments is double level, and I
live on the lower level and the tennants of one
of the top level.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So it ends up being almost like three separate apartments.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
But it's technically a duplex, so I technically have roommates,
but I have my own entrants and all of that,
and so I live there rent free mortgagory and then
I bought my second property in twenty twenty three, which
is an official three family and so I have three
tenants in there.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I mean, Newark has been around forever and it's historic
and but you know, yeah, as an investment offer, it's
not very many places where women like us, especially a
single woman, can afford like houses.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Are expensive, yes, very expensive, and you know, I think
for me, I lived in Newark. My ex had bought
his house in Newark, so I was familiar with the
Newark market. But also I work in the city, so
I needed someplace where I could easily via transit get
to work. And my commune is forty five minutes door
(17:28):
to door and I take the train basically all the way,
so that was really important for my first property. By
the time I got to say a property, I had
a car and everything. So it's actually only five minutes
from my first property, so they're very close together. And
also safety, I'm a single woman by myself, so I
needed to live in a neighborhood that I felt safe
by myself.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
But also, as you said, the growth opportunity.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
My first property was a five minute walk from a hospital,
three minute walk from school. Right I can see the
Highway from my window, like it was in an opportune
place as a twenty minute walked downtown Newark, you.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Know, so it was just a good location.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Attracted renters can be hard, but I didn't have any
issues with that. It was more about my property value
own up. So yeah, you know my property value. Being
next to a train, being next to a school, being
next to a hospital, being next to the highway, like all.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Those things increase my property value.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I think I luckily found a real estate agent who
was a black, single woman who owned properties in New
Jersey for decades. So she was all for it. And
you know, it's still kind of my mentor to this
day when it comes to real estate investment. Real estate
is always a good investment. I think the hard part
(18:47):
was not knowing. Look, I am, I don't like the outside.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I don't do hard labor, I am. I'm like, I don't.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
So I think the hardest part was really, like you said,
you know, not knowing where to start, Like, oh I
need a new fridge, where don't even start?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Oh I need new floors done? Where do I even start? Like? Oh,
my age got stolen in my backyard? What do I do?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I do feel bad for you. But that was a
funny video.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
It was hilarious. And I've got more stories to well.
Let me tell you.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I've had squatters, I've had evictions, I've had stolen.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Squad is that with other property? It was a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
It a lot, but you know, I think. But I
always say, if I had known everything that was gonna happen,
I would.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Have never bought.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And I felt children and I'm.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Just glad that I didn't know. I'm glad that I
was naive enough. But I will say when I made
the offer on the house, like a week later, I
called my real agent just like I.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Don't want to. I changed my bonds. I was like, please,
I don't want this house, no more. Please, it's too
much money. I can't do it. I don't know what
I was thinking. She was like, you're buying a damn house.
Get off my phone.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
And I was like, what do you think that was?
Was that the savor in you like you've been you've
been squirreling away all less money and then to like
spend it was that hard for you, or just the nerves.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
It was the nerves.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
It was the nerves of like, you know, I'm doing
this by myself. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm
a journalist, not a business person. There was a lot
of work that need to be done on the house.
I was like, I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I'm signing up for. It was just fear.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
And even with this new house, I had the same
thing where I call her and I was like, yeah,
how can we back out of this?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
And she was like nope, nope, nope, nope, that's not
how it works.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
So I just get the kind of cold feet whenever
I make a big purchase like that, you know, And
it has been hard, No, Lie, it's been so hard.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I've learned so many lessons.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
It's hard to do it by yourself, just because like
I have another full time job, so that takes a
lot of my time. And so if my ten to
call me today and be like my toilet's broken, I'm
doing all that. So I have to work on that
five years later. Luckily, I have a great team of
people who help me.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Who's supporting you? What's on the team If you could
go back or tell someone who's maybe thinking about as
a single woman purchasing, who's got to be on that team?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Okay, So the team that you need is you do
need a great real estate agent. And if you decide
to go with an investment, you need someone who's done investments.
Don't get someone who's just a regular real estate agent,
because you look at a investment property completely different than
you look at a regular property. You know, I'm not
looking at like, ooh, you know it's got marble countertops.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
No, no, no no, like tenants can ruin that.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
I need countertops that are gonna last for decades, you know,
not white. Yes, so you definitely need a great real
estate agent that knows investment properties and knows what to
look for in an investment property. And also, my agent
has been kind of a resource as I've tried to
build my other parts of my team. You know, I
call her when I'm like, I need someone to do
this exactly thing. She knows exactly who to call and
(22:02):
has a team of her own. You definitely need a
general contractor type person. You know, someone who is connected
to other people. You know, someone who knows welder, who
can do gates, someone who knows a plumber. You definitely
the plumber. Plumber of your own is very important. HVAC
person of your own is very important. Security system guy.
(22:26):
That's the first thing they you move in gets curious
sysm as all.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
That was in the video. You're like for insurance purposes
because they want footage to prove that something happened.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Well, I mean, if something is stolen, you don't need it,
but it just helps a lot to be able to
follow the police report and say you've got footage, and
it also prevents theft if you have them up and
also have all the signs up that say that you
have it up. So you need a good accountant if
you're going to get investment properties, because there's a lot
(22:58):
of tax benefits having investment properties.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
That you will want to take advantage of.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
So I think those are things that I I think
I call my plumber most often. You know, I was
saying to call my HVAC person going on with that
child love you know or what no ecceptic tanks, thank god.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
But you know, just like little things HVAC problems.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And all of that is uh, plumber is kind of
like the most water. Also, water is the worst thing,
Like you never want water problems at your house. So
usually like any type of drip leak, whatever I'm calling
a plumber, I'm like, okay, plumber's coming, because I don't
want a small problem to turn to a big problem,
which can be very costly.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Uh yeah, And now have you developed like a network
of other people who have properties that you can also
ask questions of. You mentioned agent.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
That's I do have my agent, but that's.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Something that I wish I had more people of. I
do know other people, you know, other black women who
own properties in the area. Yeah, but you know, like
I said, I have.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
The investor type, like the ones.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yes, right, I have a lot of jobs, and so
it can be kind of tough to.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Balance everything and also build community at the same time.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Girl, I know, but it's so essential. I can't stop
blabbing about community. I'm gonna after this, I'll connect you
with I know you got a lot of time, but
just so I can, just so I know I did it.
I have a friend Angie in New Jersey and around Newark,
I don't know where exactly, and she's part of a
real estate investment community.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And oh I would love that. Yeah area, that would
be great.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
I'd be great because I'm looking for some people to
talk to and also just people I can share experiences
with because they don't tell you all these things. They
don't tell you about squatters, they don't tell you about evictions,
they don't tell you how to get tenants.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
They don't tell you that tenants stop paying her in December,
like just didn't pay. And she's like, I'm just a woman.
How am I going to kick these people out?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Like it's a lot I did that last year. She
can call me, I know exactly what she needs to do.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
There we go, because you know what, you have space
for the community that you need, right like the people
that you like. So for me, it's like with my children,
like someone who I know can pick up my son
if I'm like running late or whatever. Then that becomes like, oh,
that's the community I need. It's like your support and
people don't want anything from you other than to be
there when you need them, you know what I mean?
Love that? Okay? All right, So you're on your fire journey.
(25:29):
You're also really passionate. I know you've mentioned this being
a single woman on this journey for yourself and that
you feel often in you know, there's so many ways
that traditional personal finance platforms and spaces leave us out,
but especially with single women. So can you tell me
about your point of view there.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I really didn't think much about it until I bought
the houses. Until I was.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Trying to like navigate this world of contractors and professionals,
which is a lot of men, and they see me
by myself and they just automatically like try to raise
the price. They treat me a little differently, and so
I really sometimes, you know, And I've also been in
situations with tenants where I've been like, oh, like she said,
(26:12):
I'm a single.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Woman, Like what do I do? You know, you call
the police. That's what you do.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
And you call the police and have them escort you,
which is also what.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I've done, you know. But it's so it could be
very tough.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
And also, let's be honest, as women, we don't make
as much as men, so therefore we have less income to.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Do these kind of big swings.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
And so I've been very fortunate that I've been smart
about investing, which has helped me have some of a room.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I've had a great career, which has also helped me.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Kind of insurance, Yes, my husband carries the insurance for me,
and if I didn't have him, I would be in
a much more vulnerable space. Yes, it's such a huge privilege.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
There's so many things that you know, I feel we
rely on, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Our fathers.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
I'm thousands of miles away from my father who's in Georgia,
So like you know, there's things that I would rely
on the men in my life to do, but I
have to do them myself.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And so kind of.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Figuring out how I'm going to live the life that
I want to live solo without another person's income to
help me has been fun for me in particular, but.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
It's also means I travel alone.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I go to fancy dinners alone. My house is alone,
no split seas. I do everything by myself, and it
takes a certain amount of a type of planning to
do that. I'm also planning for my end of life
alone right right now, I'm in a position of where
I'm a state planning, and that's like a whole thing
(27:57):
because I don't have kids and I'm not particularly planning
I have. So what does that mean for all this
wealth that I've built in my life? Where does it go?
Who does it go to? How is it divided? Is
go into?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
You know?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Is it donated? These are the things that I think
a lot of single women don't think about. But I've
been very proud of the life I've been able to build.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
You know, I.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Luckily really enjoy my own company and any place I
want to go, anything I want to do, I'm able
to do it by myself. And I think more than anything,
I want women to know that.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I want women to know that.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
You know, in the digital kind of discourse right now,
we hear a lot about, oh, I want to get
flown out, I want to get I want to find
a rich man to help me pay for X y Z,
and I love that share.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Quote be the rich man. I was able to do
everything I wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
And yes, I worked hard in order to like make
enough money and you know, have the funds to do that.
But I just think it's so important that we start
to have those discussions about how you can build the
life that you want by yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, you worked hard, but you also made choices in
your younger years like twenties and early thirties. It sounds
like that made you have that you would have had
to work so much harder if you were just starting now,
you know, And like I always, I often think back
to my twenty two year old self. But I'm like, girl,
thank you, Yes, you were setting us up for success here.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Right, thank you for getting that, for putting money in
that forrow. Okay, even you didn't know what it was.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Even if I didn't know what it was, I was like,
Daddy said I should do it, so I guess I
will look.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
At looking at that checkbox like I just feel that
on so many levels for you. Now, you know, one
of the things that I've been grappling with is ever
since and this is a huge con I think of
getting married and having kids is man like, do you
talk about you lose your sons of self? But I
did not anticipate how much I would lose my values
(29:46):
in terms of like my the way that I spend money.
It's been really hard to hold on to that. I
was just like you in my twenties and early thirties
where I was lifestyle inflation was my biggest enemy, and
I would I kept my living expenses very low. I
was like, they need to be less than thirty percent
of our income. And even as people were like move
into a bigger apartment, get closer to the train, you
(30:07):
know that kind of thing, we bought this house and
it's like tiny and cute because I didn't want to
be overextended in terms of like my my housing payments
and things like that. And but you know what, five years,
six years later, it's like, oh, I'm not where I
want to be. And it's because I'm spending on you know,
I'm spending on the things that just become easier to
(30:29):
spend on because you live in the verbs with a family,
Like we had two cars, now ew don't want those,
don't need two car payments? Like what yeah, yeah, And
it's just I'm glad that I'm having this sort of
epiphany now. But for you, I'm wondering, you know, I'm
thinking about you and that duplex in Newark and also
(30:50):
my vision of what a magazine editor in chief in
New York City should be living. And don't you have
Carrie Bradshaw's apartment, Like do other people put that expectation
on you? Like you live still? Why don't you live
in Chelsea?
Speaker 3 (31:00):
You know, you know outside I always say I'm probably
the only editor in chief who lives.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
In a basement.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
And technically it's not underground, but it's still kind of
like a basement, so you know, and I do that
because I and you know, I am starting to itch
for that like house of my own where I get
to choose every surface and every you know, like the
fancy countertops. But I do think that I have a
(31:28):
greater vision and purpose for my life. And you know,
we all know what retirement looks like from most people
in America, and it is not funded by the government
spoiler alert, you know. So I think when I go
home every night, I have enough room for me.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And yeah, living in that place.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Where I don't pay rent means that, you know, if
something terrible happens and I get laid off one day,
similar or your story.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I'm prepared, financially prepared for that.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I if I'm ready to you know, something happens to
me and I hurt myself, I'm financially prepared for that.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I can.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
And when I retire, I'm going to have money to
maintain the lifestyle that I currently have. And so I
think those are all things that are more important to
me than living in a house fancy house in Chelsea.
I drive a Kiya, So it's not like I have
a Mercedes Benz or Alexis. Nope, I d I drive
a Kia Soul that did get stolen.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And you got it back and I got it back, but.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
I sure do put the lock on her every night.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
See now, but look at this, you guys. Are you
listening because look at Jessica in her basement apartment and
her like her jail, her jail bird HVAC system, and
you're so happy and like you're really like you're in
tune with your future self, and me, I'm like, I'm not.
I want to be there again. I'm really grateful to
be talking to you now, and also talking to a
(33:03):
guest I have yan Ellie who literally was like, who
is that Mandy? I don't know her? Like where is
the old? And I don't either, And I'm excited to
get back to I had lost. I had lost that
ability to kind of see into the future of what
my actual goal is.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I think that is so important because you know, for me,
I think I'm so frugal and I'm such a savor
that like you know, you don't you want to know
how much money.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I live on.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
You know, it's like I live on you the smallest
amount of my salary, and you know, like the way
I do my money is that everybody else is paid
before me, So my investments get paid before me, My
savings get paid before me, and I get like the
sliver that's left over. I recently had to push myself
(33:50):
to spend more right, and I did it because it
was playing with.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
My mental health.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
I have a busy job, and I would come home
to a house that was dirty, okay, clothes everywhere, dirty,
dishes everywhere, and I would say to myself, this weekend,
I'm going to clean up. I'm not gonna go anywhere,
I'm not gonna get any plans because I'm.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Going to clean up this weekend.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
And then I would be so tired that I would
lay there in the bed, move the clean clothes over,
sleep on the other half of the full size bed.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
And then I feel guilty.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
And then the next week I would come home at
eight pm and my house clean, My kitchen's too dirty
to cook, I had ordered bad food, and I feel
just bad right until eventually my therapist and my dad
and my mom everybody's like, you need a house cleaner.
You need to pay for someone to come and clean
your house. Yes, And I had to get over that
(34:50):
Southern girl guilt of I know how to clean a
house now, honey, you know my Mama taught me.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
How to clean the house.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
I don't need to pay someone to clean a house
because I know how to do it right. But now
Miss Aileen, who's the person who comes and cleans my house.
She comes every week. And you know, I have a
one bedroom. It's not big, but it has made my
life so much better. And so something I think about,
you know, in that in between of lifestyle creep, which
(35:20):
you know, anyone who's into finance is really trying to avoid.
It's that place of but what is worth my money
that's going to help me overall be more efficient and
more you.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Know, live happily. You know, I go to a gym.
I pay for that. I have a nutritionist, I pay
for that. You know, sometimes I do meal plans.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
These things are expensive, but they allow me to show
up to both of my jobs, both landlord and editor
in chief, sane.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
And healthy.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
And so those are the things that I have to
learn how to spend money on.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Now I'm getting massages once, you know, twice a month,
and that's like things that I had to fight myself over.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
But those are the only lifestyle things that I allow.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
And they may change as you grow and evolve and
you know, like, but the important part is the way
that we are investing in ourselves so that we can
go into the world like emotionally regulated, like in a
happy foundation. Because when you're not sleeping well because you're
anxious about how messy things are, you're not eating well
because you know you're coming home and you don't feel
like cooking, and you're not taking care of yourself, then
(36:30):
how are you supposed to show up and be this
bad ass that we know you are? You know what
I mean, I'm I'm just happy to hear that you
were You're changing that story for yourself, and I mean
you even got those little the jaw injections I saw
on Insta.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
You're doing your yeah massive botox, yeah ja Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I'm a big tent about any beauty tips while you
were here, but that's fine. It was just such a
pleasure getting to know you, and it really feels like
we're kindred spirits, like just two sides of the same coin,
and so it's been really great to meet you and everyone.
You can find Jessica. She's at j Crule right on
ig check out a Lower dot com and self Magazine
(37:12):
dot com and what else how do you want BA
fan to reach out and support No.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
I think look find me on Instagram, ask any questions
that you have about, you know, home ownership. It's been
an adventure.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
I got a couple more homes than me, so I'll
be buying a few more homes over the next few years.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
But it's been so.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Rewarding for me, and I hope that if I could
just teach one person how to you know, make money
off of houses.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Then I'm happy, incredible. All right, Well, I think the
key takeaway for me is that team that you sort
of laid out for everybody, so the agent, the contractor,
the accountant. I think that's just like essential information the
security system. So thank you for sharing that with BA
Famly love some acctionable tips that we can take away,
and I'm gonna I'm gonna hit you up with info
(38:04):
from my friend Angie, because I think that group would
be great because it's women. I think it's women and
in in Jersey specifically you know, real estate investing, because yeah,
you need that support too, and I'm I do thank
you so much for sharing some time for having me
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
I appreciate it, and I'm looking forward to seeing all
that you do with the podcast.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I'll be listening.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Thank you.
Heyba Fam, I could not be more excited to introduce
you to my guest in the studio this week, looking
a vision in red. I don't know if y'all were
like me growing up, but becoming a magazine editor was
that just every millennial teenage girls like fantasy. You know,
we all wanted to be a tusive Rubin scene from
seventeen and that that was like it. That was the
(00:25):
only sort of like famous editor I knew growing up,
but I in high school that was my dream. I
wanted to become a magazine editor. I was going to
have my own magazine for girls like me. And I
did actually, you know, pursue my career in journalism and
got into magazines and very quickly got kicked out because
of the recession. But when I see an exception to
that rule, and an exception who is also passionate, like
(00:48):
we are at Brown Ambition of teaching women about personal
finance and about becoming financially independent and investing and building wealth,
It's like, Okay, no brainer, I have to have this
woman on. So without further ado, I want to welcome
Jessica Krule to the Brown Ambition. Fam to the studio.
Welcome and for those who For those who don't know,
(01:10):
Jessica is the editor in chief of Allure magazine as
well as Self Magazine because she's not busy enough. Now
she's the magazine of not one but sorry, the editor
in chief of not one, but two major magazines, and
in that role she leads the development of multiplatform editorial content,
so digital, social video. And of course we're all familiar
(01:30):
with the Allure Best of Beauty Awards franchise. So and
then we got twenty twenty five coming up. We're excited
to see what's made the cut. So, Jessica, thank you
so much for joining me. I'm Brown Ambition, thank you
so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'm a longtime listener, first time participant. Yes, I'm a fan.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I listen to a lot of personal finance and finance
podcasts and you all are definitely on my list.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh that's amazing to hear. So we're doing something right, yes,
for sure, doing something right. Okay, so we have some
stuff in common. One journalism magazines. Did you study journalism?
Was that your career path?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I went to the University of North Carolina in Chapel
Hill and got my degree in journalism and sociology, which
was kind of like my side degree.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
But yeah, I went to J school, so that's another
thing we have in common. I went to a big
state school too, University of Georgia.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Oh my goodness. My dad wanted me to go there
so bad. That's all right, But because I'm originally from.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Georgia, I'm from Georgia. I'm from all Benny, Georgia.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh many, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
But also, you know you mentioned you wanted to make
a magazine for girls, just like you. Actually, my senior
project in high school was a magazine called Onyx, and
it was a magazine for black girls.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And yeah, I still have it to this day, which is.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So rare, a physical magazine that you play.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, it was a physical magazine and I was on
both covers, the flip cover of course, I'm smart.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
As Oprah and Jessica putting on every color cover. Oh man,
yes I too. I And you know what I realized,
Jessica in this moment, this is really it's kind of
hitting me with a wave right now. Is I still
did do that. It's just a podcast, not a magazine.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Exactly, which is which is you know something I always
tell you know, people, I mentor is that sometimes the
job that you're meant for or the job that you want.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Doesn't exist yet.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
You know, when you were at UGA, When I was
at UNC, podcasting wasn't what it is today. It was
still very much so radio and like MPR, and so
this is a medium that has really grown in the
years that we have grown ourselves. And so you never
know what career is waiting for you and how your
(03:54):
dream and skill set is going to be used and
new and inciting.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, if I could go back, I'd probably tell Baby
Mandy or anyone else like in college or dreaming up
your career, it's just like to be open to the ride,
like if you know, the skills remained the same. I
was so my like my identity was so wrapped up
in being a writer and an editor and being in
the publishing world. And I did end up there. When
(04:23):
I told you, I got hired at a magazine. Reader's
Digest was my first job in New York. That's what
got me. That was my ticket out of Georgia, me
and my little suitcase. And when I moved up here,
this was a winter of twenty ten, so fifteen.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Fifteen years Jesus.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Anyway, moving along, and three months in I was let
go and then I but that was such a gift
because I pivoted into legal and then eventually business and
then financial content and this whole you know, just like
this epiphany that I had about my fine is in
wealth building and this education. So I love that you
(05:04):
said that, And it's like you're still being true to
your to yourself from when you were younger, but just
being open to that the picture made just look different
over time. Yeah, all right, So what's your story as
far as studying journalism? How do you move to New
York City and just make the dream that we all
(05:25):
dreamt come true for yourself?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, similar to what you said, I actually moved here
in summer twenty eleven, so one year after you and
I came with the subly sent a suitcase and an
internship okay, and.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
An internship at a place called your Tango.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
And while I was there, Yeah, while I was there,
I was you know, networking, and I had another internship.
I think people often think when you graduate your colleges
will have a job, But in that you know, climate
what would.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Think that's kind of like the whole promise of a
freaking four year degree. Right at the least they could
give us a job, do you know what I mean? Yeah,
out of this world.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
That's not what happened.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I got two internships after I graduated, but I was
applying for full time jobs at the same time.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And then I got my first job.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
At Pop Sugar, and I worked there for several years,
and I worked my way up, you know, worked at
different publications, all focused on beauty. After those internships, I
realized beauty was the target of what I wanted to cover,
which also includes wellness in a lot of ways, and
so I worked my way up, worked at Self Magazine
(06:39):
for a while. I worked at Refinery between nine for
a while, and then about five years ago I landed
at A Lore, and three and a half years ago
I became editor in chief.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Of A Lore.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
That's a crazy fast track. I get the sense in
magazine world things changed quick, you know, headsby rolling and
moving around, and I think that's kind of exciting. But
it does feel like kind of a volatile, kind of
like an intense kind of industry or feel to work in.
Am I wrong?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because when I first came
to New York for my first internship, which happened to
be at self in four Time Square, and I remember
talking to some of the editors and they were like,
go back to school and figure out the Internet, you know,
because at that time print was very challenged as it
(07:32):
you know, you know, it's tough in print.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
And so I did that.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I went back home home to you know, North Carolina
where I was going to school, and I changed my
major from reporting, which was more of a print focus,
to multimedia.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
And so that's nice that you guys had one of those.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, we had a multimedia program.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Dusty magazine they let me. They I always joke that, like,
I think I was the last person to be allowed
to study a magazine like as a focus. So that
was when you were in college. Okay, what a great yes,
I you know what this is when it matters where
you get your internship, because my internship was at Reader's
Digest and they're probably like Internet, we're afraid of that.
(08:14):
But the fact that someone told you, like, girl, get ahead.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Of this, yeah, and that really helped me because you know,
it does move fast, and I was set.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Up for success in the digital realm. All my jobs
were digitally focused.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
And you know, as beauty became more and more about
social and TikTok, I was really set up to succeed
in the new ecosystem that is required of a publication
in this day and age.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean, what do you think the takeaway? I
mean for me career wise, because I also have a
career coaching practice, and I'm always trying to encourage women
to not get so wrapped up in the one job
that they have now, but keep their eye on the
bigger picture. So for you, what does that look like
even now? I mean, for I know, for a fact,
like having spoken to incredible people on the show, and
(09:02):
just for my own career, you think, in a you know,
in the seventeen year old version of myself, editor in
chief is like the mountaintop, but it's not really. It
can be just you know, a really nice you know,
a really nice vista on the way to where you
want to be. So in the picture of your career, like,
what do you really hope in envisioning for yourself?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
You know what I love about being editor in chief
is a storytelling I think that I rarely.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Get to do now because of veteran chief.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
You know, I think people think I too had that
dream of wearing a fancy suit, working in a big,
fancy building in New York, and you know, being a
badass in general. And I looked up one day and
I do get to do that. I get to do
and be those things, which is great.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
For me.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
I think as long as I continue to get to
tell stories of women, as long as I have a
platform to share knowledge, whether that be at a publication
like I do now with the Lauren's Self or on
my own personal platform, I think that is what really
excites me. The storytelling. I love to interview people. It's
one of my favorite things. I believe everyone has a
(10:13):
book in them, so, you know, I think a book
might be in my future.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I just love to tell stories, you know. I love podcasting.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Who knows, I might have a podcast in my future,
so who knows what that is. But the thing that
I really love about being Tter in Chief is nowadays
it's a lot like being a.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Business leader, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
So I have been able to take my expertise in
personal finance and learn a lot about business, you know,
running a business, running a P and L and all
of that in this job, which you know, journalism is
very creative. It's very words based, but now I'm very
in numbers based, so that that's really an interesting shift
(10:55):
for me.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What helped you there? Was it mentors? Was it? Did
you do more studying? Was it just like learning on
the job? What helped you in that sense?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I definitely was learning on the job, But I hired
an executive coach at my company was good enough to
provide me with an executive coach, And I recommend an
executive coach to everyone who's taking on a big leadership role,
managing a big team, doing a big change in their
career because the thing that is hardest about taking on
(11:24):
a role from more of an individual contributor role or
middle manager to kind of a corporate leader is the politics.
There's so many politics and interpersonal relationships that you have
to manage, and I felt like my executive coach really
helped me to learn how to navigate that because those
are things that people don't teach.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Your sawce skills.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
There's like making decks, which as a writer, I was like,
oh make that.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh my god, but you really have always a job
for the EA.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
You have to make decks as like a leader who
wants to get a point across and wants to ask
for investment. So, you know, these are things that I
really think an executive coach.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Can help with. Very smart, very smart, very work therapist.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Do you still work with them? How do you What
was that relationship ending? What was it?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Well, my time ended and I felt like I had
gotten a handle on it and I was able to
navigate on my own. And I do feel that if
there's a moment where I need to go back to them,
that that is open to me. But I do you
just come upon a point, you know, after a year
(12:35):
or so, I you know, after you've done all the
seasons of a role, I kind of feel like you're like, Okay,
I've done this before, Like I know this type of
time of year means, and you kind of get a
little accustomed to that and prepared for that mentally.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that they did that. Yeah,
and gave you that support that you needed. All right,
So where did your personal when did your personal finance journey? Again,
you said your expertise in it, So when did you
start building that is something that you grew up with or.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
You know, I grew up.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Knowing a little bit about money, you know, my grandparents
and my parents had stock in my name, like, so
I used to get those little mutual fund uh in
the mail, Like it would be so exciting to have
something with my name on it come in the mail.
And it was like reports of how my stock was
doing that my grandfather put aside for me.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
When I was first born. Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
So that is like the first time that I was like,
I got money, but it wasn't like serious, right, And
then I will say I was I'm a natural saver,
so know that. But I will say I've always been
very frugal, Like I went to school on full scholarship,
(13:52):
I still had a job because I was like I
just I was, I'm scared of being broke. I will say,
like being broken as my big So I really feel
like money has always been kind of something that I
made sure I had made sure that I was cautious
(14:12):
around saved a lot of it. But I feel like
I really started to plan around money.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
When I turned thirty.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Okay, and.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
It was after a breakup. I was with someone and
we were living together. He bought an investment property and
I watched the whole process of him getting an investment
property and then we broke up and we lit up
and had to move apart, and I started to think
about buying a house of my own.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I was like, well, I see what he was talking about.
If he can do it, I can do it.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
So I ended up starting to look for my first house,
which then led me to the Financial Independence Retirement early community.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Oh she a fire, girly yes.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And then I got serious and I was like, all right, boom,
what's the situation? What's my percentages? How much my am
maxing out my for a one k? I maxing out
my rock? You know, like I really got serious about
and also like saving for a house, buying a house
is an expensive purchase.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
What year around?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
So that was twenty nineteen when I bought my first house.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Twenty nineteen. Oh good timing.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, it was great timing.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I bought my first mine in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah good timing too, So my idea.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I hated every minute of it. My husband made me
do it.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Oh really really, now.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
He's gloating, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's cool.
But I wasn't thinking of it as an income property.
So when you bought your first property, wasn't meant to
be an income property.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
It was meant to be an income.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Okay, where'd you buy it?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I bought in Newark, New Jersey, and I was house
hacking brick City, yes, rick City, so and I was
house hacking. So I lived in the bottom and I
had two tenants at the top, in the top of
a duplex. So uh, it paid for itself and uh.
(16:01):
And once all the renovations were done, which was very
very interesting experience as a single woman doing renovations on
a house and dealing with contractors and all of that.
I you know, now I make money off of it,
which is great.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Oh nice. So eventually you were able to move out
of that duplex.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
No, so I actually still live there.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
So it's a duplex, but it has like the it's
like I have roommates basically, right, So it's two apartments,
but one of those apartments is double level, and I
live on the lower level and the tennants of one
of the top level.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
So it ends up being almost like three separate apartments.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
But it's technically a duplex, so I technically have roommates,
but I have my own entrants and all of that,
and so I live there rent free mortgagory and then
I bought my second property in twenty twenty three, which
is an official three family and so I have three
tenants in there.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I mean, Newark has been around forever and it's historic
and but you know, yeah, as an investment offer, it's
not very many places where women like us, especially a
single woman, can afford like houses.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Are expensive, yes, very expensive, and you know, I think
for me, I lived in Newark. My ex had bought
his house in Newark, so I was familiar with the
Newark market. But also I work in the city, so
I needed someplace where I could easily via transit get
to work. And my commune is forty five minutes door
(17:28):
to door and I take the train basically all the way,
so that was really important for my first property. By
the time I got to say a property, I had
a car and everything. So it's actually only five minutes
from my first property, so they're very close together. And
also safety, I'm a single woman by myself, so I
needed to live in a neighborhood that I felt safe
by myself.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
But also, as you said, the growth opportunity.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
My first property was a five minute walk from a hospital,
three minute walk from school. Right I can see the
Highway from my window, like it was in an opportune
place as a twenty minute walked downtown Newark, you.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Know, so it was just a good location.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Attracted renters can be hard, but I didn't have any
issues with that. It was more about my property value
own up. So yeah, you know my property value. Being
next to a train, being next to a school, being
next to a hospital, being next to the highway, like all.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Those things increase my property value.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I think I luckily found a real estate agent who
was a black, single woman who owned properties in New
Jersey for decades. So she was all for it. And
you know, it's still kind of my mentor to this
day when it comes to real estate investment. Real estate
is always a good investment. I think the hard part
(18:47):
was not knowing. Look, I am, I don't like the outside.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I don't do hard labor, I am. I'm like, I don't.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
So I think the hardest part was really, like you said,
you know, not knowing where to start, Like, oh I
need a new fridge, where don't even start?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Oh I need new floors done? Where do I even start? Like? Oh,
my age got stolen in my backyard? What do I do?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I do feel bad for you. But that was a
funny video.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
It was hilarious. And I've got more stories to well.
Let me tell you.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I've had squatters, I've had evictions, I've had stolen.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Squad is that with other property? It was a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
It a lot, but you know, I think. But I
always say, if I had known everything that was gonna happen,
I would.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Have never bought.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And I felt children and I'm.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Just glad that I didn't know. I'm glad that I
was naive enough. But I will say when I made
the offer on the house, like a week later, I
called my real agent just like I.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Don't want to. I changed my bonds. I was like, please,
I don't want this house, no more. Please, it's too
much money. I can't do it. I don't know what
I was thinking. She was like, you're buying a damn house.
Get off my phone.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
And I was like, what do you think that was?
Was that the savor in you like you've been you've
been squirreling away all less money and then to like
spend it was that hard for you, or just the nerves.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
It was the nerves.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
It was the nerves of like, you know, I'm doing
this by myself. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm
a journalist, not a business person. There was a lot
of work that need to be done on the house.
I was like, I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I'm signing up for. It was just fear.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
And even with this new house, I had the same
thing where I call her and I was like, yeah,
how can we back out of this?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
And she was like nope, nope, nope, nope, that's not
how it works.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
So I just get the kind of cold feet whenever
I make a big purchase like that, you know, And
it has been hard, No, Lie, it's been so hard.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I've learned so many lessons.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
It's hard to do it by yourself, just because like
I have another full time job, so that takes a
lot of my time. And so if my ten to
call me today and be like my toilet's broken, I'm
doing all that. So I have to work on that
five years later. Luckily, I have a great team of
people who help me.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Who's supporting you? What's on the team If you could
go back or tell someone who's maybe thinking about as
a single woman purchasing, who's got to be on that team?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Okay, So the team that you need is you do
need a great real estate agent. And if you decide
to go with an investment, you need someone who's done investments.
Don't get someone who's just a regular real estate agent,
because you look at a investment property completely different than
you look at a regular property. You know, I'm not
looking at like, ooh, you know it's got marble countertops.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
No, no, no no, like tenants can ruin that.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
I need countertops that are gonna last for decades, you know,
not white. Yes, so you definitely need a great real
estate agent that knows investment properties and knows what to
look for in an investment property. And also, my agent
has been kind of a resource as I've tried to
build my other parts of my team. You know, I
call her when I'm like, I need someone to do
this exactly thing. She knows exactly who to call and
(22:02):
has a team of her own. You definitely need a
general contractor type person. You know, someone who is connected
to other people. You know, someone who knows welder, who
can do gates, someone who knows a plumber. You definitely
the plumber. Plumber of your own is very important. HVAC
person of your own is very important. Security system guy.
(22:26):
That's the first thing they you move in gets curious
sysm as all.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
That was in the video. You're like for insurance purposes
because they want footage to prove that something happened.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Well, I mean, if something is stolen, you don't need it,
but it just helps a lot to be able to
follow the police report and say you've got footage, and
it also prevents theft if you have them up and
also have all the signs up that say that you
have it up. So you need a good accountant if
you're going to get investment properties, because there's a lot
(22:58):
of tax benefits having investment properties.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
That you will want to take advantage of.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
So I think those are things that I I think
I call my plumber most often. You know, I was
saying to call my HVAC person going on with that
child love you know or what no ecceptic tanks, thank god.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
But you know, just like little things HVAC problems.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And all of that is uh, plumber is kind of
like the most water. Also, water is the worst thing,
Like you never want water problems at your house. So
usually like any type of drip leak, whatever I'm calling
a plumber, I'm like, okay, plumber's coming, because I don't
want a small problem to turn to a big problem,
which can be very costly.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Uh yeah, And now have you developed like a network
of other people who have properties that you can also
ask questions of. You mentioned agent.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
That's I do have my agent, but that's.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Something that I wish I had more people of. I
do know other people, you know, other black women who
own properties in the area. Yeah, but you know, like
I said, I have.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
The investor type, like the ones.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yes, right, I have a lot of jobs, and so
it can be kind of tough to.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Balance everything and also build community at the same time.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Girl, I know, but it's so essential. I can't stop
blabbing about community. I'm gonna after this, I'll connect you
with I know you got a lot of time, but
just so I can, just so I know I did it.
I have a friend Angie in New Jersey and around Newark,
I don't know where exactly, and she's part of a
real estate investment community.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And oh I would love that. Yeah area, that would
be great.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
I'd be great because I'm looking for some people to
talk to and also just people I can share experiences
with because they don't tell you all these things. They
don't tell you about squatters, they don't tell you about evictions,
they don't tell you how to get tenants.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
They don't tell you that tenants stop paying her in December,
like just didn't pay. And she's like, I'm just a woman.
How am I going to kick these people out?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Like it's a lot I did that last year. She
can call me, I know exactly what she needs to do.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
There we go, because you know what, you have space
for the community that you need, right like the people
that you like. So for me, it's like with my children,
like someone who I know can pick up my son
if I'm like running late or whatever. Then that becomes like, oh,
that's the community I need. It's like your support and
people don't want anything from you other than to be
there when you need them, you know what I mean?
Love that? Okay? All right, So you're on your fire journey.
(25:29):
You're also really passionate. I know you've mentioned this being
a single woman on this journey for yourself and that
you feel often in you know, there's so many ways
that traditional personal finance platforms and spaces leave us out,
but especially with single women. So can you tell me
about your point of view there.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I really didn't think much about it until I bought
the houses. Until I was.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Trying to like navigate this world of contractors and professionals,
which is a lot of men, and they see me
by myself and they just automatically like try to raise
the price. They treat me a little differently, and so
I really sometimes, you know, And I've also been in
situations with tenants where I've been like, oh, like she said,
(26:12):
I'm a single.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Woman, Like what do I do? You know, you call
the police. That's what you do.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
And you call the police and have them escort you,
which is also what.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I've done, you know. But it's so it could be
very tough.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
And also, let's be honest, as women, we don't make
as much as men, so therefore we have less income to.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Do these kind of big swings.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
And so I've been very fortunate that I've been smart
about investing, which has helped me have some of a room.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I've had a great career, which has also helped me.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Kind of insurance, Yes, my husband carries the insurance for me,
and if I didn't have him, I would be in
a much more vulnerable space. Yes, it's such a huge privilege.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
There's so many things that you know, I feel we
rely on, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Our fathers.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
I'm thousands of miles away from my father who's in Georgia,
So like you know, there's things that I would rely
on the men in my life to do, but I
have to do them myself.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And so kind of.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Figuring out how I'm going to live the life that
I want to live solo without another person's income to
help me has been fun for me in particular, but.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
It's also means I travel alone.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I go to fancy dinners alone. My house is alone,
no split seas. I do everything by myself, and it
takes a certain amount of a type of planning to
do that. I'm also planning for my end of life
alone right right now, I'm in a position of where
I'm a state planning, and that's like a whole thing
(27:57):
because I don't have kids and I'm not particularly planning
I have. So what does that mean for all this
wealth that I've built in my life? Where does it go?
Who does it go to? How is it divided? Is
go into?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
You know?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Is it donated? These are the things that I think
a lot of single women don't think about. But I've
been very proud of the life I've been able to build.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
You know, I.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Luckily really enjoy my own company and any place I
want to go, anything I want to do, I'm able
to do it by myself. And I think more than anything,
I want women to know that.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I want women to know that.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
You know, in the digital kind of discourse right now,
we hear a lot about, oh, I want to get
flown out, I want to get I want to find
a rich man to help me pay for X y Z,
and I love that share.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Quote be the rich man. I was able to do
everything I wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
And yes, I worked hard in order to like make
enough money and you know, have the funds to do that.
But I just think it's so important that we start
to have those discussions about how you can build the
life that you want by yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, you worked hard, but you also made choices in
your younger years like twenties and early thirties. It sounds
like that made you have that you would have had
to work so much harder if you were just starting now,
you know, And like I always, I often think back
to my twenty two year old self. But I'm like, girl,
thank you, Yes, you were setting us up for success here.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Right, thank you for getting that, for putting money in
that forrow. Okay, even you didn't know what it was.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Even if I didn't know what it was, I was like,
Daddy said I should do it, so I guess I
will look.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
At looking at that checkbox like I just feel that
on so many levels for you. Now, you know, one
of the things that I've been grappling with is ever
since and this is a huge con I think of
getting married and having kids is man like, do you
talk about you lose your sons of self? But I
did not anticipate how much I would lose my values
(29:46):
in terms of like my the way that I spend money.
It's been really hard to hold on to that. I
was just like you in my twenties and early thirties
where I was lifestyle inflation was my biggest enemy, and
I would I kept my living expenses very low. I
was like, they need to be less than thirty percent
of our income. And even as people were like move
into a bigger apartment, get closer to the train, you
(30:07):
know that kind of thing, we bought this house and
it's like tiny and cute because I didn't want to
be overextended in terms of like my my housing payments
and things like that. And but you know what, five years,
six years later, it's like, oh, I'm not where I
want to be. And it's because I'm spending on you know,
I'm spending on the things that just become easier to
(30:29):
spend on because you live in the verbs with a family,
Like we had two cars, now ew don't want those,
don't need two car payments? Like what yeah, yeah, And
it's just I'm glad that I'm having this sort of
epiphany now. But for you, I'm wondering, you know, I'm
thinking about you and that duplex in Newark and also
(30:50):
my vision of what a magazine editor in chief in
New York City should be living. And don't you have
Carrie Bradshaw's apartment, Like do other people put that expectation
on you? Like you live still? Why don't you live
in Chelsea?
Speaker 3 (31:00):
You know, you know outside I always say I'm probably
the only editor in chief who lives.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
In a basement.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
And technically it's not underground, but it's still kind of
like a basement, so you know, and I do that
because I and you know, I am starting to itch
for that like house of my own where I get
to choose every surface and every you know, like the
fancy countertops. But I do think that I have a
(31:28):
greater vision and purpose for my life. And you know,
we all know what retirement looks like from most people
in America, and it is not funded by the government
spoiler alert, you know. So I think when I go
home every night, I have enough room for me.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And yeah, living in that place.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Where I don't pay rent means that, you know, if
something terrible happens and I get laid off one day,
similar or your story.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I'm prepared, financially prepared for that.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I if I'm ready to you know, something happens to
me and I hurt myself, I'm financially prepared for that.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I can.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
And when I retire, I'm going to have money to
maintain the lifestyle that I currently have. And so I
think those are all things that are more important to
me than living in a house fancy house in Chelsea.
I drive a Kiya, So it's not like I have
a Mercedes Benz or Alexis. Nope, I d I drive
a Kia Soul that did get stolen.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And you got it back and I got it back, but.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
I sure do put the lock on her every night.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
See now, but look at this, you guys. Are you
listening because look at Jessica in her basement apartment and
her like her jail, her jail bird HVAC system, and
you're so happy and like you're really like you're in
tune with your future self, and me, I'm like, I'm not.
I want to be there again. I'm really grateful to
be talking to you now, and also talking to a
(33:03):
guest I have yan Ellie who literally was like, who
is that Mandy? I don't know her? Like where is
the old? And I don't either, And I'm excited to
get back to I had lost. I had lost that
ability to kind of see into the future of what
my actual goal is.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I think that is so important because you know, for me,
I think I'm so frugal and I'm such a savor
that like you know, you don't you want to know
how much money.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I live on.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
You know, it's like I live on you the smallest
amount of my salary, and you know, like the way
I do my money is that everybody else is paid
before me, So my investments get paid before me, My
savings get paid before me, and I get like the
sliver that's left over. I recently had to push myself
(33:50):
to spend more right, and I did it because it
was playing with.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
My mental health.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
I have a busy job, and I would come home
to a house that was dirty, okay, clothes everywhere, dirty,
dishes everywhere, and I would say to myself, this weekend,
I'm going to clean up. I'm not gonna go anywhere,
I'm not gonna get any plans because I'm.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Going to clean up this weekend.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
And then I would be so tired that I would
lay there in the bed, move the clean clothes over,
sleep on the other half of the full size bed.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
And then I feel guilty.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
And then the next week I would come home at
eight pm and my house clean, My kitchen's too dirty
to cook, I had ordered bad food, and I feel
just bad right until eventually my therapist and my dad
and my mom everybody's like, you need a house cleaner.
You need to pay for someone to come and clean
your house. Yes, And I had to get over that
(34:50):
Southern girl guilt of I know how to clean a
house now, honey, you know my Mama taught me.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
How to clean the house.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
I don't need to pay someone to clean a house
because I know how to do it right. But now
Miss Aileen, who's the person who comes and cleans my house.
She comes every week. And you know, I have a
one bedroom. It's not big, but it has made my
life so much better. And so something I think about,
you know, in that in between of lifestyle creep, which
(35:20):
you know, anyone who's into finance is really trying to avoid.
It's that place of but what is worth my money
that's going to help me overall be more efficient and
more you.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Know, live happily. You know, I go to a gym.
I pay for that. I have a nutritionist, I pay
for that. You know, sometimes I do meal plans.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
These things are expensive, but they allow me to show
up to both of my jobs, both landlord and editor
in chief, sane.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
And healthy.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
And so those are the things that I have to
learn how to spend money on.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Now I'm getting massages once, you know, twice a month,
and that's like things that I had to fight myself over.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
But those are the only lifestyle things that I allow.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
And they may change as you grow and evolve and
you know, like, but the important part is the way
that we are investing in ourselves so that we can
go into the world like emotionally regulated, like in a
happy foundation. Because when you're not sleeping well because you're
anxious about how messy things are, you're not eating well
because you know you're coming home and you don't feel
like cooking, and you're not taking care of yourself, then
(36:30):
how are you supposed to show up and be this
bad ass that we know you are? You know what
I mean, I'm I'm just happy to hear that you
were You're changing that story for yourself, and I mean
you even got those little the jaw injections I saw
on Insta.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
You're doing your yeah massive botox, yeah ja Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I'm a big tent about any beauty tips while you
were here, but that's fine. It was just such a
pleasure getting to know you, and it really feels like
we're kindred spirits, like just two sides of the same coin,
and so it's been really great to meet you and everyone.
You can find Jessica. She's at j Crule right on
ig check out a Lower dot com and self Magazine
(37:12):
dot com and what else how do you want BA
fan to reach out and support No.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
I think look find me on Instagram, ask any questions
that you have about, you know, home ownership. It's been
an adventure.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
I got a couple more homes than me, so I'll
be buying a few more homes over the next few years.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
But it's been so.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Rewarding for me, and I hope that if I could
just teach one person how to you know, make money
off of houses.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Then I'm happy, incredible. All right, Well, I think the
key takeaway for me is that team that you sort
of laid out for everybody, so the agent, the contractor,
the accountant. I think that's just like essential information the
security system. So thank you for sharing that with BA
Famly love some acctionable tips that we can take away,
and I'm gonna I'm gonna hit you up with info
(38:04):
from my friend Angie, because I think that group would
be great because it's women. I think it's women and
in in Jersey specifically you know, real estate investing, because yeah,
you need that support too, and I'm I do thank
you so much for sharing some time for having me
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
I appreciate it, and I'm looking forward to seeing all
that you do with the podcast.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I'll be listening.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Thank you.
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